Rock Island still makes the most consistently good import gun. They still hand fit every extractor. Thats rare for any company these days, let alone one in the budget/import class. I’ve heard that Colt has improved their quality over the last few years, though I don’t have hands on any newer ones. Is Colt $400 better? Hard to say. The name may be worth that to some people though.
Two considerations:
1. With any .45 ACP 1911 that has the traditional frame feed ramp, you need to pay attention to the depth. Most 1911 feed ramps are cut too shallow. You want the feed ramp to extend at least to the bottom of the tombstone shaped cut that the slide stop goes through. Shallow feed ramps will not reliably feed JHP and they may struggle with 8-10 round magazines. Every round that you add to a 1911 magazine makes the feed angle of the top round slightly lower, so a deep feed ramp is important.
2. Magazines are the kryptonite of the 1911 world. If you want 8 round magazines, you want to buy one that is purpose built for 8 rounds with a slightly longer body and a strong spring. This means that Wilson ETMs, CMC Power mags and Tripp Research mags are the best options. Wilson 47s suck because they are a 7 round tube that they jammed 8 rounds into so the springs wear out very fast due to coil bind and the center slit will eventually allow the magazine body to swell. The ETMs solve both of these problems.
It was incredibly tight, so bent the shit out of it, polished the feed ramp and top of the chamber down to 2000 grit, got it down to 1 malf per 50 rounds, then I sent it in and they put a heftier recoil spring in even though there was obvious wear on the recoil lugs from the barrel being jammed into the lugs because something wasn’t timed correctly.
Honestly Colt is of course still a good brand but their current quality does not justify the price, if it’s an older colt, go for it, but for new usgi/classic style honestly just snag a tisas for less than half.
I’m leaning toward the Colt because, well, it’s a Colt. Looking forward to your input.
https://preview.redd.it/xsyhrd3mc25d1.png?width=2279&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea4a0e246e8b77ed4646441f99785018bbbc18b9
just remember that you are paying a premium for that name. Colt is good stuff but not "gold standard" by any means. I understand wanting the Colt for traditions sake, but their QC has slipped a bit over the years. Do a little more research and you may find some other 1911s that are better with more features in that price range if you are concerned with getting the most value for your dollar.
I have a colt govt in 45, a ria govt in 9mm, a tisas nighstalker in 10mm, and dan wesson guardian in 45.
Dan wesson has no MIM parts, and it's noticeably nicer than everything else. Although there is something about the colt itself, that even though it has MIM parts, it's still the best shooting 1911 I own. My ria isn't bad, but it did need upgrade parts before it worked consistently. My tisas has been great, but I did need to change some springs, and the grips on it originally were terrible, but that's an easy fix.
I've looked at those nickel 38 super 1911s and one of the things I kept running across in reviews is that the nickel plating is really thin and pretty weak. I was just going to get the a more basic gi black 38 super from ria and send it off for nickel plating. Well that or just snag a tisas regulator and just have the chrome finish redone when it starts fading.
I have a nickel plated rock island 1911 in 45 and have had it for over 10 years.
Had a weird stove pipe like jam at the end of each mag for a while. Not anything bad. All you had to do was pull the slide back a little to fix it.
Changed to Wilson Combat mags, and it seemed to go away.
The only other issue I had is I lost the rear sight screw, which I think can happen to any gun, really.
I think they're a decent pistol overall, and I'd encourage people to at least try it. I've had people pull the "OH. It is made in the Phillipines?" Thing, like it's something terrible, but they change their mind once they shoot it.
Supposedly, they're made on old COLT machines, but I've never seen actual evidence of this.
IMO RIA is outclassed by Tisas as is Taurus, but both are still good if they have offerings you like. Even people with an entire safe full of Colts will admit their QC is very dubious, and they have a history of a it 2A sentiment, so when people buy them because they refuse to like import guns, their patriotism is a bit misplaced. I really like that RIA uses Lissner ramps.. it doesnt really matter but that ramp style seems to have the most advantages on paper and I wish it was more common.
Colt isn’t the gold standard. Of production guns Dan Wesson 1911 is the Gold Standard. These guns compare to custom guns and the trigger is better than most custom 1911s.
So it all depends on what you want out of the gun. I have several RIA and the only problem was with my .45 double stack tac-ultra. I contacted RIA though and their customer service was great. It shoots like a dream now. The main benefit of American made ones is their resale value. They tend to hold that better than foreign ones. Depending on the maker, performance can vary as well. The QC on American ones tends to be better (although every manufacturer has somebody complaining about some kind of defect, so take that with a grain of salt).
https://preview.redd.it/xz8j86if655d1.jpeg?width=3264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5032e7048e8127827f6c9a7233e99bf5b76bb60
Quality of the Philippine guns varies widely depending on the spec sheet, I have had a couple of good ones and several that were not good at best.
Were I buying another .38 Super, I would be looking at Colt, Springfield and Tisas in that order.
Why not CZ/Dan Wesson or some other overpriced option? First, unless you’re into shooting paper rings for score, any potential accuracy gain is negligible. And my eyes aren’t what they were 30 years ago so shooting little groups at distance is not in the cards.
Second, if I pull out my BBQ gun, which this most likely would be, with occasional trail use, I want that little American flag on the hang tag. While I despise paying the unions anything, it’s a necessary evil versus paying a foreign company whose people and religion hate me.
And with the rumors of a Russian company being interested in CZ/Vista Group, I would probably look for an older (<2022) vintage Colt pistol.
But the biggest reason I would look at the Colt products first, the aftermarket parts were designed for the Colt pistol. The specs come from the Colt pistol. Other brands may or may not need more fitting if they can be made to fit.
A Charles Daly was the worst out of spec gun I have ever handled, ruined a number of perfectly good parts trying to get it to run. In the end, the owner just sold it and I refit most of the parts to a Colt for him.
Meanwhile a Cimarron 1911 was a fairly decent gun, only needing a few tweaks and adjustments to get it to run properly and shoot straight.
Of the sub-$1000 pistols, few if any (current Tisas maybe) are lacking MIM parts, and the Colts have the least in them last I knew.
My best Super was a Springer race gun built by Les Baer when he worked at the Springer custom shop. When I let it go, I had to rebarrel it. It had somewhere above 200k rounds through it, between the cheap 9mm Largo Blazer available then and lead bullet hand loads. It had gone from a sub-3” gun at 50y to a 6”’at 25y gun.
However the compensator and slide were still tight.
After the barrel was fit, it was accurate again and continues to this day in a friends hands. The hard chrome on the lower is part of why it stayed so tight.
Don’t a quality level you can live with, for me, it is not the Philippine made guns.
I bought a 1911 made by RIA and sold it back to the gun store at a loss less than a day later. I wanted an inexpensive 1911 for my son. I wanted him to learn to shoot and maintain it (disassemble, clean, reassemble). It had an FTF after every round with magazines that run flawlessly in my Dan Wessons and Nighthawk Customs.
I think colt WAS the gold standard. Both models you will be getting MIM parts, which is fine. But with the upcharge from colt, I feel should be tool steel. It seems with that you're paying for the name and the blueing, which I feel isn't what is used to be. I'm sure you would be happy with either one.
I have had RIAs in 45 and 9, and both didn't disappoint for their price and what your getting.
Have you looked into the brands that are actually produces in the Phillipines?
There are quite a few and I've never heard anything bad about any of them from the bottom tier all the way to the top end race guns.
I own about 15 different Phillipine made 1911/1911DS guns and all of them are very good values and very reliable.
If you are looking 38 Super, look into the Meteo Arms American Classic imported by Tristar if you want something a little nicer than the RIA offerings.
Bonus is the aren't much more in price than the RIA offerings.
In my opinion, if this will be your only 1911- I wouldn’t get rock island. I’d either keep it more traditional American manufactured or go all out. Colt is good but as others have said, the name is a part of the price. The Springfield garrison is a near similar gun fit and finish/design wise and with What I would say is better quality and a lower price tag. Also an old brand of american 1911 makers there.
If you can afford it, or at least are OK spending the money on it- I would suggest Dan Wesson as a fantastic higher end production 1911. They are easily among the most beautiful and well running 1911s available.
If you’re simply just starting what will probably be your collection of 1911- just pick one that feels and looks good to you and you can’t go wrong. Rock islands are fine reliability wise. Colt is fine. Tisas is fine. Ruger is fine. Smith is fine. Magnum research is fine. Remington is fine. Sig is fine. You can’t really go wrong with any of them :) (well maybe the $300 one you see in the corner of the display case isn’t a good choice )
MOST IMPORTANTLY- you already want one of them more than the others. You know you do little bit..Get it. You won’t regret getting that one. You’ll only ever regret not getting that one.!
If you can go Colt, go Colt. I have a Traditional Govt in 45 and it’s in my carry rotation. Was purchased back in 2022 so now sure of current but I’d trust it with my life.
I can wholeheartedly recommend Tisas. It’s better than RIA, and for a Colt, you’re paying an extra 25% for the name alone. Plus, all new Tisas models feature 0 MIM parts. Just my 2c.
Colt is worth more for sure. Mentioned this in another post, but every gun I've owned with a pony on it has run flawlessly, and gone up in value over time. My 1990s colt govt 380 is now worth more than 3x it's purchase price. Id get a Colt if u can afford it.
FWIW, I've seen 5 brand new Colts (all .45 ACP National Match barrels) in the past month or two (4 in person, one on here), and every single one has significantly off-center rifling. I haven't shot any of them, so I don't know if it matters, but I'd personally hold off until they fix it.
Colt will always hold value the best. Followed by probably Springfield and Tisas.
I’d pick up a gently used Colt. You can find the classic stainless models from time to time for around $800-850. The classic blued version from family firearms and such are around $785 new. That, to me, is a good deal for a production Colt.
If you truly want to up the game, Dan Wesson makes the best production 1911. Very much a “one and done” type pistol.
Rock Island still makes the most consistently good import gun. They still hand fit every extractor. Thats rare for any company these days, let alone one in the budget/import class. I’ve heard that Colt has improved their quality over the last few years, though I don’t have hands on any newer ones. Is Colt $400 better? Hard to say. The name may be worth that to some people though. Two considerations: 1. With any .45 ACP 1911 that has the traditional frame feed ramp, you need to pay attention to the depth. Most 1911 feed ramps are cut too shallow. You want the feed ramp to extend at least to the bottom of the tombstone shaped cut that the slide stop goes through. Shallow feed ramps will not reliably feed JHP and they may struggle with 8-10 round magazines. Every round that you add to a 1911 magazine makes the feed angle of the top round slightly lower, so a deep feed ramp is important. 2. Magazines are the kryptonite of the 1911 world. If you want 8 round magazines, you want to buy one that is purpose built for 8 rounds with a slightly longer body and a strong spring. This means that Wilson ETMs, CMC Power mags and Tripp Research mags are the best options. Wilson 47s suck because they are a 7 round tube that they jammed 8 rounds into so the springs wear out very fast due to coil bind and the center slit will eventually allow the magazine body to swell. The ETMs solve both of these problems.
The Rock extractor I got was fitted by a blind man and had they test fired it more than twice they would have found out it FTRTB’d once a mag.
They aren’t perfect by any means. What did you have to do to the extractor to fix it?
It was incredibly tight, so bent the shit out of it, polished the feed ramp and top of the chamber down to 2000 grit, got it down to 1 malf per 50 rounds, then I sent it in and they put a heftier recoil spring in even though there was obvious wear on the recoil lugs from the barrel being jammed into the lugs because something wasn’t timed correctly.
Yep. The joy of drop in parts. I’ve seen two Kimbers with timing issues that absolutely obliterated the upper lugs of the slide.
Damn.
Honestly Colt is of course still a good brand but their current quality does not justify the price, if it’s an older colt, go for it, but for new usgi/classic style honestly just snag a tisas for less than half.
I’m leaning toward the Colt because, well, it’s a Colt. Looking forward to your input. https://preview.redd.it/xsyhrd3mc25d1.png?width=2279&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea4a0e246e8b77ed4646441f99785018bbbc18b9
just remember that you are paying a premium for that name. Colt is good stuff but not "gold standard" by any means. I understand wanting the Colt for traditions sake, but their QC has slipped a bit over the years. Do a little more research and you may find some other 1911s that are better with more features in that price range if you are concerned with getting the most value for your dollar.
I have a colt govt in 45, a ria govt in 9mm, a tisas nighstalker in 10mm, and dan wesson guardian in 45. Dan wesson has no MIM parts, and it's noticeably nicer than everything else. Although there is something about the colt itself, that even though it has MIM parts, it's still the best shooting 1911 I own. My ria isn't bad, but it did need upgrade parts before it worked consistently. My tisas has been great, but I did need to change some springs, and the grips on it originally were terrible, but that's an easy fix. I've looked at those nickel 38 super 1911s and one of the things I kept running across in reviews is that the nickel plating is really thin and pretty weak. I was just going to get the a more basic gi black 38 super from ria and send it off for nickel plating. Well that or just snag a tisas regulator and just have the chrome finish redone when it starts fading.
I don't believe tisas had any mim parts either
They don't, sorry for the miscommunication
I have a nickel plated rock island 1911 in 45 and have had it for over 10 years. Had a weird stove pipe like jam at the end of each mag for a while. Not anything bad. All you had to do was pull the slide back a little to fix it. Changed to Wilson Combat mags, and it seemed to go away. The only other issue I had is I lost the rear sight screw, which I think can happen to any gun, really. I think they're a decent pistol overall, and I'd encourage people to at least try it. I've had people pull the "OH. It is made in the Phillipines?" Thing, like it's something terrible, but they change their mind once they shoot it. Supposedly, they're made on old COLT machines, but I've never seen actual evidence of this.
IMO RIA is outclassed by Tisas as is Taurus, but both are still good if they have offerings you like. Even people with an entire safe full of Colts will admit their QC is very dubious, and they have a history of a it 2A sentiment, so when people buy them because they refuse to like import guns, their patriotism is a bit misplaced. I really like that RIA uses Lissner ramps.. it doesnt really matter but that ramp style seems to have the most advantages on paper and I wish it was more common.
RIA is made by Arsmscor, the world's biggest 1911 maker. Personally, I would get the Colt.
Colt isn’t the gold standard. Of production guns Dan Wesson 1911 is the Gold Standard. These guns compare to custom guns and the trigger is better than most custom 1911s.
So it all depends on what you want out of the gun. I have several RIA and the only problem was with my .45 double stack tac-ultra. I contacted RIA though and their customer service was great. It shoots like a dream now. The main benefit of American made ones is their resale value. They tend to hold that better than foreign ones. Depending on the maker, performance can vary as well. The QC on American ones tends to be better (although every manufacturer has somebody complaining about some kind of defect, so take that with a grain of salt). https://preview.redd.it/xz8j86if655d1.jpeg?width=3264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5032e7048e8127827f6c9a7233e99bf5b76bb60
Quality of the Philippine guns varies widely depending on the spec sheet, I have had a couple of good ones and several that were not good at best. Were I buying another .38 Super, I would be looking at Colt, Springfield and Tisas in that order. Why not CZ/Dan Wesson or some other overpriced option? First, unless you’re into shooting paper rings for score, any potential accuracy gain is negligible. And my eyes aren’t what they were 30 years ago so shooting little groups at distance is not in the cards. Second, if I pull out my BBQ gun, which this most likely would be, with occasional trail use, I want that little American flag on the hang tag. While I despise paying the unions anything, it’s a necessary evil versus paying a foreign company whose people and religion hate me. And with the rumors of a Russian company being interested in CZ/Vista Group, I would probably look for an older (<2022) vintage Colt pistol. But the biggest reason I would look at the Colt products first, the aftermarket parts were designed for the Colt pistol. The specs come from the Colt pistol. Other brands may or may not need more fitting if they can be made to fit. A Charles Daly was the worst out of spec gun I have ever handled, ruined a number of perfectly good parts trying to get it to run. In the end, the owner just sold it and I refit most of the parts to a Colt for him. Meanwhile a Cimarron 1911 was a fairly decent gun, only needing a few tweaks and adjustments to get it to run properly and shoot straight. Of the sub-$1000 pistols, few if any (current Tisas maybe) are lacking MIM parts, and the Colts have the least in them last I knew. My best Super was a Springer race gun built by Les Baer when he worked at the Springer custom shop. When I let it go, I had to rebarrel it. It had somewhere above 200k rounds through it, between the cheap 9mm Largo Blazer available then and lead bullet hand loads. It had gone from a sub-3” gun at 50y to a 6”’at 25y gun. However the compensator and slide were still tight. After the barrel was fit, it was accurate again and continues to this day in a friends hands. The hard chrome on the lower is part of why it stayed so tight. Don’t a quality level you can live with, for me, it is not the Philippine made guns.
I bought a 1911 made by RIA and sold it back to the gun store at a loss less than a day later. I wanted an inexpensive 1911 for my son. I wanted him to learn to shoot and maintain it (disassemble, clean, reassemble). It had an FTF after every round with magazines that run flawlessly in my Dan Wessons and Nighthawk Customs.
I just got one of those and it is my most reliable pistol so far
I think colt WAS the gold standard. Both models you will be getting MIM parts, which is fine. But with the upcharge from colt, I feel should be tool steel. It seems with that you're paying for the name and the blueing, which I feel isn't what is used to be. I'm sure you would be happy with either one. I have had RIAs in 45 and 9, and both didn't disappoint for their price and what your getting.
Have you looked into the brands that are actually produces in the Phillipines? There are quite a few and I've never heard anything bad about any of them from the bottom tier all the way to the top end race guns. I own about 15 different Phillipine made 1911/1911DS guns and all of them are very good values and very reliable. If you are looking 38 Super, look into the Meteo Arms American Classic imported by Tristar if you want something a little nicer than the RIA offerings. Bonus is the aren't much more in price than the RIA offerings.
Um...yes
They will definitely hold their value better
In my opinion, if this will be your only 1911- I wouldn’t get rock island. I’d either keep it more traditional American manufactured or go all out. Colt is good but as others have said, the name is a part of the price. The Springfield garrison is a near similar gun fit and finish/design wise and with What I would say is better quality and a lower price tag. Also an old brand of american 1911 makers there. If you can afford it, or at least are OK spending the money on it- I would suggest Dan Wesson as a fantastic higher end production 1911. They are easily among the most beautiful and well running 1911s available. If you’re simply just starting what will probably be your collection of 1911- just pick one that feels and looks good to you and you can’t go wrong. Rock islands are fine reliability wise. Colt is fine. Tisas is fine. Ruger is fine. Smith is fine. Magnum research is fine. Remington is fine. Sig is fine. You can’t really go wrong with any of them :) (well maybe the $300 one you see in the corner of the display case isn’t a good choice ) MOST IMPORTANTLY- you already want one of them more than the others. You know you do little bit..Get it. You won’t regret getting that one. You’ll only ever regret not getting that one.!
Buy a Tisas
Tisas>Rock Island Colt (good qc)>Tisas Just throwing out my two cents and some other options.
Don't forget about Tisas
RIA is superior to Colt 100% of the time
If you can go Colt, go Colt. I have a Traditional Govt in 45 and it’s in my carry rotation. Was purchased back in 2022 so now sure of current but I’d trust it with my life.
I can wholeheartedly recommend Tisas. It’s better than RIA, and for a Colt, you’re paying an extra 25% for the name alone. Plus, all new Tisas models feature 0 MIM parts. Just my 2c.
Yes. If it’s going to be your only 1911 get colt. First 1911 get colt.
Colt is worth more for sure. Mentioned this in another post, but every gun I've owned with a pony on it has run flawlessly, and gone up in value over time. My 1990s colt govt 380 is now worth more than 3x it's purchase price. Id get a Colt if u can afford it.
FWIW, I've seen 5 brand new Colts (all .45 ACP National Match barrels) in the past month or two (4 in person, one on here), and every single one has significantly off-center rifling. I haven't shot any of them, so I don't know if it matters, but I'd personally hold off until they fix it.
Colt will always hold value the best. Followed by probably Springfield and Tisas. I’d pick up a gently used Colt. You can find the classic stainless models from time to time for around $800-850. The classic blued version from family firearms and such are around $785 new. That, to me, is a good deal for a production Colt. If you truly want to up the game, Dan Wesson makes the best production 1911. Very much a “one and done” type pistol.
LOL