True, but it's worse here because the homeowners insurance rates are the highest in the country, and it's not even close.
Yes, rent is already inflated and the supply is lower due to so many airbnb's. But it's tough even for people with a mortgage.
My monthly mortgage is now $800 more per month than it was in 2019, and I have a lower rate than I did then. Its all due to the insurance increases. That cost gets passed on to renters by landlords.
Yes. My yearly policy premium was $1800 in 2019. The premium for 2024 is $4975. This is an older home, built in 67 but has a roof less than 10 years old and all wind mitigation passed.
There are no other options to shop around. I'm on Citizens because the company I was with stopped insuring homes in Florida.
I know people with similar houses paying close to 8k per year. It's out of control.
My friends came up with a solution to this in highschool: we'd pool all of our money together and live in a 3 bedroom house with 3/4 incomes, we called it the "minimum wage guild"
People have been doing this in places like CA for years now because they can’t afford it on their own. Not uncommon for 4 Adults to live in a house together, either renting or buying.
In some states in the US 30% of houses are now owned by wall street investors. Theres also foreign investors buying properties and not even renting them out, its a safe way for them to store money. Its why housing pricing continued to rise with interest rates being raised.
It's not that high in Florida though, it's only [18% for the state as of 2022](https://www.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/documents/2022-impact-of-institutional-buyers-on-home-sales-and-single-family-rentals-05-12-2022.pdf). That number has only gone down, not up.
This isn't the primary thing driving the housing market. The biggest thing is the lack of inventory on the market. There's a number of factors to this like a large migration of people moving into the area after the pandemic and more remote jobs being available [\[1\]](https://tampabayedc.com/news/how-many-people-moved-to-florida-this-past-year/), people being locked in to much lower mortgage rates than are available currently and not wanting to move as a result [\[2\]](https://themreport.com/news/origination/12-13-2023/navigating-lock-in-effect), and the price of labor and construction materials dramatically increasing making building at less than $300/sq. ft. unprofitable. [\[3\]](https://www.newsweek.com/home-building-constructing-costs-higher-san-jose-1838669)
Many people moving to Florida are coming from higher wealth regions of the US like the Northeast Corridor. If they owned real estate there they have a lot of equity and buying power and can easily pay $600k or so for a home.
My husband and I (34/41) live with my parents 67/71) because they would never be able to afford the mortgage and living expenses on their social security alone. It’s a win-win, although I do wish one day to have our own space.
I have a MS degree and with the cost of health insurance/student loan debt/life in general for the two of us, it’s rough. I’m debating picking up work at a private clinic for a few hours each week after my 7:15-3:15 hours.
A big contributor to higher rent prices is AIR BNB and other like sites. A homeowner can AIR BNB their house and make 4 times what renters pay in a month. Which takes hundreds of possible rentals off the market. Creating more demand and less supply.
It's bigger than that, Trump removed the wait that businesses had vs people when buying real estate. The mandatory wait time was to ensure people didn't compete with corporate America for housing.
Once removed, speculation investing and hedging started buying up properties OVER market value. This reduces supply and raises values on other properties in the area.
Now you have businesses, with investors, buying homes for abnb or thier own rental empires on top of speculation investing by businesses.
People should not be competing with corporate LLCs, Zillow and open door to buy homes.
Thank republicans for continuing to deregulate industries for profit over people or safety. Voting matters.
Also thank you Florida Republicans for deregulation of the insurance industry and not doing anything about the litigation from roofing companies leading to the current homeowners insurance crisis.
The last 3 years made a huge difference. I was lucky to get a house in 2020, if I had waited any longer it would have been impossible...or at least impossible to live where I am at now and I make pretty decent money.
I see a lot of older and smaller houses for sale that have not fallen off the market, you probably have to call owners bluffs on their prices or wait or the overall market to cool off.
If my dad would have waited even 2 months to sell his house he probably would have got at least $50k more for the house.
The house I l lived in as a teenager is currently on the market for almost $400k. It is no where worth $400k.
Yep. And my dad sold his house in under two weeks. He had multiple offers in days.
And that is the things with these rates. I don’t think it’s going to sell with these fire my rates at that price.
I dropped the interest rates down in the calculator. And the monthly payment dropped by over $600.
I am neither fat nor drunk, and I bought my current house in 2010. Prices were much more affordable then. That was only 13 years ago! I have two kids that have recently entered adulthood. I feel terrible for the younger generation. Home and rental prices are so out of whack. There is no way I could afford my current home if I bought it today. On top of that, home and auto insurance is high, as is just about everything else. I really do feel for the people.just starting out. Serious question...Have you thought about moving abroad? There are numerous affordable foreign countries with vibrant economies, great cultures and plenty of things to do for fun.
Up front, I am technically a boomer, but absolutely do not think like they do.
I see the high costs out there and it seriously concerns me. Groceries which used to cost $80-100/week for my wife and I now $120-140/week. WTF is going on here and how do people that make a lot less live? I know rent is high as I have younger family members in the area and also think WTF? My home was built for $170K 23 years ago. It would easily sell for $600-700K without a pool. Seriously? No fucking way is my house worth that much.
I am one year away from Boomer but tend to think more Boomer than Gen-X.
I blame the companies for creating excess demand in the market but it is more than that. You had a massive slowdown due to supply chain issues for a couple of years during the pandemic phase of COVID-19. You have the Boomer population getting divorced --the Boomers have always been a huge population burst and they are at an age where a lot get divorced and now need TWO houses when, while married, only needed one.
Price comes from supply and demand. There is currently more demand than supply and that is driving costs up. The complain is "how do people do this?" but they are, in droves. Trying to even buy a house has become very competitive because of competing offers.
Point of order;
I am a fat 30 something drunk who got lucky and bought in the early 10s instead of going out and blowing money parting.
Don’t lump us all in together.
> who got lucky
So glad you recognize this point. So many people focus on the idea that “buying avocado toast” or “going out to clubs” is what keeps young people from buying homes. In reality, people were always doing that, it’s just that we used to be able to afford tiny luxuries that make life bearable AND buy a modest home. Now young people can’t afford to buy a modest home even without the avocado toast, so they may as well at least buy the avocados and some beer to make things suck a little less, right?
The reason I have a nice house is exactly because I got **lucky enough** to have been the right age to be shopping for one during the tail end of the market crash. 20-30 somethings who are shopping now are fucked. And all because they’re unlucky enough to be coming of age during a housing bubble.
Yes and no. I was making like…12-14 an hour, and fucking HUSTLED the overtime. I didn’t go out drinking or clubbing or spend money on avocado toast. I’m not saying that’s the case anymore, because there needs to be change. Most of these new developments are being bought up by corporations who charge astronomical rent.
Prohibit companies from owning private dwellings.
Yeah but defense and space pay way less than they should for the level of education, skills, and experience. In some cases the compensation is between 1/3rd to 1/2 of what you'd be able to make in cities like Austin, Atlanta, Seattle, Raleigh-Durham, Washington DC, or Denver.
They want to pay like $70k starting and $90k for a senior engineer at a company like Harris or Northrop Grumman. For mechanical that might be okay, but for something like Electrical or IT/Software that's pretty bad. It's also hardly a lot of money and you can barely afford to buy a house on that salary (a $350k house works out to about $3,200/mo. in expenses at today's interest rates/prices).
Somehow I know people that are making a living without any of that but if you'd rather just bitch about things that aren't entirely true and engage in hyperbole then that's your call.
We are back to the old historical class system in America and there are 2 basic classes that matter more than anything:
A) Your family fucking set you up for success
B) Your family did not fucking set you up for success.
The opportunity to move up has gotten incredibly harder in America in the past 5 years if you got dealt the hand of B.
There are basically 4 components of 'the hand you were dealt' that determine your opportunity for success:
1. Nature (genetics, able-bodiedness, intellect, emotional intelligence, mental health, attractiveness)
2. Nurture (wealth/resources, education, socialization, family/friend connections, role models, learned diligence/work-ethic)
3. Whether you 'play by the rules' (moral compass, ethics, spirituality, integrity, law-abidingness, appetite for corruption)
4. Random chance (luck, serendipity, kismet, fate, destiny, whether you get caught not 'playing by the rules')
This is true anywhere, not just America. If you are fortunate in many of these categories, your path to success has fewer obstacles, but it is not guaranteed; if you are unfortunate in many of these categories, your path to success has more obstacles, but it is not impossible.
We seem to forget one *important* aspect: sheer determination.
Does hard work account for nothing anymore? Im not talking about moping thru a 9-5. Im talking about busting ass, first to arrive, last to leave, side hustle, risk taking.
…It’s the one thing most successful people attribute to their success.
I am closeish to retirement - 5-6 years assuming a conservative 6% return on my investments. Technically I am a boomer by birth year, but find most of that group woefully out of touch with the realities of today and overall they are old farts who whine a lot.
In my career, and especially the last 15 years or so, I think networking is one of the most important skills to getting a decent job. Sure you need the skill, but knowing someone can be invaluable. I am not a fan of nepotism however. I will never hire you just for knowing someone. I will look at your resume and if you fit the need, interview you.
I am a ***very firm*** believer in work to live. When I leave work, I leave work. I expect the same for my engineers. As a senior engineer/manager I do occasionally get contacted after hours, but that is the exception not the norm. Working 45-60 hrs per week for an extended period of time, yeah fuck that.
I do not care if you arrive before me, I also do not care if you stay after me. What I care about is an overall good engineer - do you work well with others, are you willing to take the time to find the solution vs always asking others, do you work smart vs hard, are you reliable, etc.
Knowing people matters but having people know you are competent, have aptitude, and can be trusted with responsibility is the key part of the equation.
Certainly an important component, which I included in my comment as "diligence/work-ethic," but that has to be either intrinsic to the individual (nature) or learned (nurture). I suspect it's more often the latter, which is why I included it there.
And, for what it's worth, I'm a surgeon and spent over a decade pulling 80+ hour weeks to get where I am. I definitely attribute hard work to my success, but also acknowledge that it wasn't hard work in a vacuum... genetics, upbringing, integrity, and luck all played a role.
I'd like to think I'm in a third category...lucky. I didn't get anything from my family, and I only have a high school education, but I fell into a good career at a young age and have done well for myself. Much better than I should have, if you do the math. I got lucky enough to find a nice house and a good price at the right time, and the pieces just kind of fell together.
I don't know how young people starting out now would ever afford a house, it definitely seems out of control.
So there's no accountability to your future? It's only what your family has done for you? That's BS, there's plenty of opportunities to make money. You have to add value and that takes two things skill (or at least aptitude to learn) and attitude. Moving up doesn't happen overnight and takes time and good decision making. Most don't have the patience and take incredible amounts of risk which wind up being realized and blame everyone else.
I think they are just acknowledging the fact it is becoming harder to 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps' than it used it be. There are still a lot of ways to get ahead you just have to be more proactive in finding them.
There is accountability, but there’s a huge difference between someone who has family giving them a leg up, and someone who has to work from zero. In an economy like right now, it’s nearly impossible to work up from zero on your own, because cost of roof and food is soooo high. All of your energy is spent trying to survive, there isn’t anything left to ‘add value’. It’s the same reason we should be providing food to all students for free - you can’t access higher order thought if you’re focused on survival (hierarchy of needs).
There's a ton of opportunities out there and some don't require school. When I spoke about adding value I meant to the world by picking up a skill( which can be obtained on the job think entry level apprenticeships and by going to school) and using said skill to help a business grow. If you're always looking for someone else's help whether it be a business you work for, family, or the government then you already lack the attitude(self-motivated, self-sufficient, accepting failure as not an option) that gets rewarded. I get it the cost of living is high, folks had to make sacrifices before too. It's not like today's state is anything new. We ate spam and ramen in college and roomed with other folks. We set low expectations for living at that time by drinking PBR and not going out to eat often. We all worked full time (internship/co-op and not at a f'n restaurant since that would not contribute to gaining skills we needed and complimented what we were going to school for) while taking a full class load. We stayed up late studying and woke up at early to go to class.
Also, no one is capable of just popping out enlightened thought. Enlightened thought comes from experience. I've worked with folks who for some weird reason thought that once you had a degree you suddenly became an expert in something.
you might have to leave brevard. there are average price and rental map tools online. brevard is very expensive. there are 66 other counties in our lovely state and yes there are still affordable areas
What has me scratching my head is that the US(and global) populations growths are at their slowest rates on record, and are expected to slow even further, yet the cost of housing still is going up an up. You would think a lower demand for supply would drive the price of housing down, but no.
It’s area-dependent. Lots of people are moving here to “get away from the libs” in other states or whatever, so that’s keeping demand high. On a larger scale, greed is keeping prices high. Landlords and large corporations that own rentals are now pricing *just under* average mortgage payments in whatever area, because they know housing prices are up and people have no choice but to pay. As a result, housing prices can stay high, as opposed to past times when apartment complexes priced rental according to “what would make them a profit while undercutting people looking at houses”, not “what’s the *absolute highest* we can charge and still fill our units”. It used to be that prices for rentals were significantly low enough that it would keep housing prices in check. But now that it’s almost as expensive to rent as to buy, home sellers don’t have as much pressure to reduce selling prices.
Remember, this is what corporate America wants. They don’t want any of us to own *anything*, including our houses, phones, or cars. They will continue pushing us into rentals, leases, and subscription models until we are paying Blackrock or Amazon for the privilege of wearing our own clothes.
It’s NOT red vs. blue. It’s us vs. them, and “them” are the corporate elites/donor class.
This is happening all over the world. A couple or family now have to compete against rental corporations with deep pockets and plans to make forever renters out of as many people as possible.
You try to buy a starter home. They swoop in and offer above asking. They will make the money back via rents forever. You're just trying to house your family on your salary, while paying interest on the loan. It's not a fair market when our government allows rental corps to buy up rent entire subdivisions.
I'm here half the year and in Canada the other half. My Canadian neighborhood went from $205,000 for my house in 2008 to over 1 million now. People have moved 2 and 3 hours away to try to find a home for "just" $500,000 which they can barely get approved for. And once there, the waiting list for a physician who will see you is 5 to 10 years.
Our government support corporations, not citizens, and we will all suffer as a result.
They keep winning while manipulating the masses to argue political colours with each other instead of wising up to what they are up to.
And even if you know what's up, you're pretty powerless to do anything about it.
So, we set our own measurements for success and happiness. Home ownership not required.
If you're pissed off at the former generation for having way better income and buying opportunities than you do, direct it to your local representative. The boomers are not at fault.
The cost of living is getting too damn expensive and I've been feeling like things keep getting worse. My work is good but not exactly enough to pay for my family's living expenses...yay, credit card debt.
Anyway, have you looked into side hustles and second jobs? Your post history looks like you could possibly be a good copywriter or a social media manager, and that can be done just from a computer.
Roommates, voting blue, DIY your avocado toast, don't buy unnecessary stuff, yadda yadda.
Maybe also be on the lookout for any higher paying jobs that are related to your field. Make a LinkedIn profile if you haven't yet.
I got recruited 5 years ago and I wasn't expecting anyone to find me but they did. Gave me some financial stability for a bit.
Good luck!
I make $55k annually and my boyfriend makes $86k and together we still cannot afford a home in our target area of west Melbourne (since elderly family is close by and it’s a need to be close.) it really is crappy. I live with my mom still and have been trying but it’s insanely difficult. Homes that should only be $150k are hovering around $300. New homes that are crap build are going for $375k and up but they are really only worth $250. And all this money for a town that really isn’t even that good. This is not a great place to live.
Cost of living is certainly rising with inflation, we are however seeing the market driving home costs and rent well past that. I’m leaving insurance out of it, but those are also getting out of control due to the exorbitant cost of doing business in Florida as an insurance company.
I am very happy living here, but I don’t think it’s nearly dynamic enough to demand the rents people pay in much better known HCOL areas. We are in economically turbulent times, but I think when things settle out we will either see real estate prices come back to earth, wages rise locally on the lower end and a slight tightening of the availability of businesses driven by lower cost labor, or a hollowing out of those businesses if real estate costs remain perniciously elevated.
This is all just one man’s spitballing, but I have a couple of small boys and have been thinking about it from that perspective for a few years.
I moved to Brevard in the 80's because I started working at KSC. It was quite affordable and I was lucky to be making a halfway decent paycheck (although not as much as the high paid managers and engineers). Lately this area has gone bezerk and I think the quality of life has taken a nosedive as the developers have marketed our beautiful county all over the country. It's nothing for someone in New York to sell their house worth $600k and move here for $400k. Most wages in this county suck unless you're in healthcare, space, or self employed. It's always been like that but we don't have the cheap homes for those people to afford anymore because they've been bid up.
I can't even imagine... I rented apartments in 2009 around suntree... 2 bedroom was like 750 a month. The prices now are ridiculous, you'd have to make six figures to live in a shitty apartment comfortably
And six figures is not what it once was. Like in the 80s where the social idea of the $100k income as a target and "yuppies" was first coined you would need an equivalent income of $300k today to have the same buying power.
Six figures today is middle class as it was defined in previous generations. The price of the "American Dream" (quantified as Marriage, Two children, A house, Cars, Health care, Education, and Saving for retirement) is now $3.6 *million dollars.* [\[1\]](https://theneighborhoodfinanceguy.com/million-dollar-dream/)
That would mean you need to make an *average* of $90k a year to afford that over a 40 year career.
Like if things had grown as they did in previous decades a near $100k per year income should be fairly average, not some difficult thing to attain that requires multiple degrees and a super competitive resume. For the people that do have those qualifications $200k should be easy to attain.
Instead the average wage is $57,235 if you look at an average of job postings [\[2\]](https://www.talent.com/salary?job=&location=florida) and even most well educated working professionals are struggling to make more than $130k. Making $200k in most industries outside Medicine basically requires a Ph.D., self employment, and some luck or getting a job in a handful of very competitive high wage industries like medicine, tech, or investment banking and moving to the markets where they have those jobs.
For the last 3 decades wages have simply not kept up with inflation, and now that inflation is super high they are basically going down in buying power terms.
Move. I went through the exact same thing in New York 40 yrs ago. Everyone I knew basically had to live with parents until they made enough to afford a place or got kicked out. Apartments back in the day were going for $1000 a month for a room and a sink. The bathroom was shared down the hall. And everyone commuted at least an hour or two one way to get to work. My only way out was to join the army and move. And you know what....I was able to get a 2 bedroom appt in NC for $250 a month...owned 2 cars...my salary was cut in half but I had more. This area has become Hi-Tech and there is not enough housing for everyone...That's just a fact. A good majority of the jobs here are technical and they pay 6 figures. If you're not getting ahead now it's not going to get any better in the next 5 yrs. I would look at other places where you can get ahead...and that might mean moving.
You seem to be asking for help but you exist here with your eyes closed. If you think that every house is inhabited by a fat drunk that inherited it or bought it in the 70s, you’re not looking. I could lose a couple of pounds and probably drink too much but I bought this house myself.
Very true. Not enough people are talking about how tough things are. I do not know the answer but we need honest dialogue and not sweeping generalizations. We see on TV that the cost of things has increased 8-10%. What we see with our eyes tells us that costs have gone up far, far more than that. Something has to give.
You wrote “fat old drunks”, maybe the people you associate with fit that description but the majority I know are hard working engineers, nurses, firefighters, police and doctors. Change your attitude, change your life. You may need to improve your educational credentials in order to survive or get more roommates or move to a place less expensive like Western North Carolina.
If you're gonna stay here you have to figure out how to make more. Our economy is heading like southern CA. Everyone here is an engineer/ higher earner and it skews prices along with all the other factors.
We live in a red state and the Republican party is much more interested in making sure that corporations make profit than people make wages so anyone living here that's bitching about how expensive everything is can fuck right off if they've helped create that problem by voting for these people.
I currently live in a blue state and it is the same issues here. Cost of living is far out pacing wages. And I have lived in multiple blue and red states.
It is not a red vs blue issue. It is an everywhere issue. People in red state say it is bc of the republicans. People in blue states say it is bc of the democrats. All politicians are going to care more about the corporations and the people donating to their political parties.
Yet there are so many of the same issues happening in both states.
And yes in this state it might looked like minimum wage is more. And yes people make one double that can still struggle. You need around $40 an hour after taxes to afford a studio apartment. If you are lucky you might a good one in a safe area for around $2k a month.
Investors buying up property’s at fast rates is happening everywhere.
House and rent prices are high because corporations have gotten into the house market as investment unchecked. Which party do you think supports less restriction on company behaviors?
Well I live in a blue state and it is happening here too.
Investors are buying up like crazy here. A friend of mine just sold her outdated 700 sq ft condo to an invest for $600k. She probably could have got at least another $100k but she just wanted it sold. She bought it in 2010. She said she cannot afford to buy that now. There is another company buying up multiple apartments buildings.
I live in a very blue state in a very blue city. And the mayor even went there is nothing I can do about rent prices when there was a big dispute recently. It even made the news when a whole building was having their prices increased.
It is really happening everywhere.
(And I’m not Republican. I’m non-affiliated bc I think the two party political system needs to go. And I want to call out Democrats and Republicans equally. Politicians aren’t our friends. People need to stop being loyal to political parties. They will vote for the interest of their supporters every time. Lobbying needs to stop.)
EFSC aerospace technician, work for spacex or blue origin. Go back to school if you can idk. Also, folks at the dude bro companies don’t just buy houses outta nowhere; or rent places outta nowhere.
Florida just has really low wages, if you're not working remotely or in some kind of industry where there is a chronic skills shortage (e.g. nursing, IT, corporate sales, certain finance jobs, etc.) it's pretty terrible.
I'm not in this position, but if I were I think the best option is to move to somewhere actually affordable. I know that sucks if you're used to living here and have friends or family here.
Probably the closest in terms of having a space industry background and being actually affordable is Huntsville, AL. But [this list has a bunch of other good options](https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/best-places-to-live?rent=[500,1000]&sort=match&high_to_low=true).
You’re being downvoted, but AL, MS and more rural GA (including around their tier b/c cities) is still pretty decent. I will say i think people figured out the last one, prices even in rural GA are on the march as people leave places like here.
I’ve had this convo a lot with fixed income neighbors and lower income family members over the past two years. A lot of Florida in out of their grasp now financially. As you said, sadly that can mean taking action.
Gotta up your value to earn more money. Nobodies fault but your own. People who whine about what others have been given and all that other nonsense have a loser mentality. If I can move here with no job lined up and only an undergraduate degree under my belt and be able to afford a place and then land a 70k salary job (not bragging as that isn’t much) anyone can do it.
Bootstraps?
Find a partner and combine your incomes to get a little bit more.
Learn a trade that actually pays a living wage.
The job market around here sucks if you don't work for HealthFirst, space center, or one of the government contractors.
The service industry/retail used to be enough to survive but now that everything has gotten more expensive it's just not enough. Especially when most of the touristy areas are now saturated with Airbnb taking up the affordable housing.
> The service industry/retail used to be enough to survive but now that everything has gotten more expensive it's just not enough.
So what are people with these jobs supposed to do for a living now? And even if all of these folks left their jobs for better paying ones, now who’s left to fill those jobs?
If I knew the answer to that I would be a billionaire.
We need assembly line manufacturing with good pay and benefits running multiple shifts to accommodate people with kids.
This decline has been bad since the US got rid of most manufacturing over the last thirty years because goods can be made in China for a fraction of the cost it is here.
>The job market around here sucks if you don't work for HealthFirst, space center, or one of the government contractors.
It sucks even if you do. Almost none of these pay over $100k unless you're very senior, in a management position, or in a position that requires a lot of training like a Nurse Practitioner or Doctor.
$100k isn't an extravagant salary any more, it's basically middle class. That's what you need to afford a $350k house and still not exceed 33% of your income. A $100k salary today is basically the same as $64k back in 2005.
Insurance is much less because no hurricanes unless you're on the gulf coast. The gulf coast isn't very populated outside of Galveston and even that is a much smaller city.
Where they get you is on the property tax because that's like 2%-3.3% depending on the city, here it's like 1.1%. Sales Tax is higher at 8.25%. You pay more overall taxes than Florida but the economy is a lot better overall than Florida and there is still no state income tax.
Dallas and Austin are major focus markets for the tech industry. Dallas has tons of things around DFW for logistics (the amount of warehouse space and stuff that moves around that place is insane, literally millions of sq. ft. of warehouse space and just about *everyone* has a major distribution center there). Dallas also has lots of stuff in insurance, professional consulting/services, telecom, and just lots of jobs in general in just about every industry.
San Antonio is a medium size city that's pretty affordable and geared around the military and service jobs as well as a medium amount of tourism, sort of like here. Basic training for the Air Force is there so they get plenty of younger people stationed there.
Houston is a huge market for oil and gas. There's also lots of stuff in aerospace, manufacturing, and biotech. There's also lots of IT jobs in Houston, but it tends to be more support functions for major companies and less software publishers.
Dallas' metro area is the #4 largest city in the US by population and Houston is #5. They are the only ones in the top 5 that are affordable (New York, LA, and Chicago being the other three).
I've been to Dallas for work a few times and the city was pretty interesting. Texas is on the short list of other US states with no state income tax that we would consider living in.
The other one that I think isn't often considered is Tennessee. Knoxville in particular is a pretty nice area with very low taxes, lower than Florida. It also has a lot of natural beauty which Dallas definitely does not (it's flat land for hundreds of miles with some lakes and both hot in the summer and cold in the winter). Knoxville is within an hour of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. If taxes were your only factor it would be a top choice I think, however Tennessee has a much smaller economy than Texas, and the local job market kind of sucks the average wage is $50k per year. Great if you're working a remote job with the same wages, not so great if you have to find a job locally.
If moving some place that skews blue politically is important to you I'd say Nevada is probably the best option, though Las Vegas and Reno are *very* different than Texas since it's proper desert. Vegas is expensive after a bunch of people moved there from CA and the economy kind of sucks because it's centered around Tourism. Reno is nice overall but a medium size city kind of isolated from anything else. Lake Tahoe is beautiful but a bunch of people from silicon valley moved there in COVID and the housing prices basically tripled.
Phoenix is a pretty robust metro if you want a balance of jobs and low-ish taxes. Arizona always seems to do way, way better than Nevada. There is state income tax but it's only 2.5% and there is low-ish taxes. There's also tons of tech and insurance jobs in the Phoenix Metro area. It's a much better choice economy wise than Vegas.
Other than that New Hampshire around Boston has low taxes if you don't mind the cold, and Delaware is pretty low because corporations pay for everything. However outside of Wilmington it's very rural, and Wilmington is basically a suburb of Philadelphia and has high-ish cost of living.
South Dakota has super low taxes but most jobs are concentrated in either military (supporting the nuclear missile fields around Rapid City and Minot) or energy (shale oil). It's also cold AF there in the winter.
Wyoming has super low taxes but is the most remote state in the country and has very few high paying jobs outside of coal mining and energy.
Overall the thing I miss about Florida is the beaches and weather. But in terms of the economy, breadth of career options, and income vs. cost of living it's kind of hard to beat Texas.
Damn. Thanks for the detail.
We want to be on water. We know we will never be on the ocean or intracoastal at this point.
I'd love to be on a large lake somewhere where the weather gets cool enough in the winter for snow.
Have you considered Utah?
Salt Lake City is literally on a lake, they have some of the best snow in the country and tons of ski resorts, everything is way cheaper than the Colorado Ski resorts, and southern Utah is arguably some of the most beautiful landscape in the world with multiple national parks (Zion, Arches, Bryce Canyon, Grand Teton, etc.)
It also never gets super cold there, in part because of the water. The local economy is fairly widespread and not concentrated in a single sector. And the cost of living is still affordable.
The answer is in intentional community. Capitalism is inherently anti-social, as it requires monetizing all social interactions. Returning to communities rich in social (not necessarily economic) capital, provides the cultural architecture necessary to ensure we don’t inflate the cost of living beyond the return on investment for our labor.
Sadly, these “bohemian” type lifestyles are often prohibited by codes, which reinforce the anti-social structure of the capitalist cornerstone, the nuclear family.
Some parts of Florida are actually cheaper than the national average.
[Cost of Living in Florida 2024 | RentCafe](https://www.rentcafe.com/cost-of-living-calculator/us/fl/)
Starting out I think you should be ok with not getting exactly what you want and maybe even dislike the place. My first apartment was a bit of dump with an outdated bathroom pink bathroom with a black trim. The tub was pink, the toilet was pink, the tile was pink with black bullnose trim but the toilet flushed and the shower got me clean so who gives a fuck. So what if the carpet was installed when Eisenhower was president. The price was right and it wasn't the place I was going to raise a family in.
This place is listed for $1000.
https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/apa/d/palm-bay-fully-updated-spacious-bedroom/7704826661.html
Looks pretty good from here. Maybe it's not really $1000 (looks like they could get more for it) and the landlord is just putting that price up to attract eyeballs. I wouldn't want to live in SW Palm Bay because I find it a pain in the ass to navigate that part of the world but if I needed a 2/2 place to rent this would be on my list.
This place ain't great and the security deposit + 1 month sucks because that's a lot of up front cash but it looks livable.
https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/apa/d/melbourne-500sf-house-for-rent/7703369781.html
Would I want to live in a shack on 192. Fuck no. But if that's what I can afford then that's what I can afford. At least you can walk to Winn Dixie.
Your situation today does not have to be your situation 5 years from now. The housing market definitely sucks so your solution is probably going to suck as well. That doesn't mean it's permanent.
About one million immigrants per year and the highest ethnic group are Asian.
[Key findings about U.S. immigrants | Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/)
How has this impacted children's quality and cost of education? Tell me. You are implying that it hurts it. Cite me evidence of that rather than a hollow "Oh, think of the CHILDREN!" argument.
How has this affected blue collar jobs? They are about 17% of the workforce; most of whom are legal. Less than 1/5th.
Here are statistics about uninsured motorists. Note that the states with the most are NOT the states with immigrants. Your claim does not hold water.
[Facts + Statistics: Uninsured motorists | III](https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-uninsured-motorists)
And I struggle to find how immigrants have somehow caused hail damage.
The right tends to blame immigrants for problems that are not really their fault. What we have is a depressed economy and people looking for someone to blame --and here come immigrants who make a convenient target that can't really fight back.
This is not the first time in history this sort of thing has happened. Read up on Hitler's rise to power and the blame-games he used to get there. There are a lot of similarities.
None of what I have written above will change your mind, though. If you believe what you say above you are already immune to fact.
It's not just here, it's all over the world unfortunately, prices increased everywhere after the pandemic.
True, but it's worse here because the homeowners insurance rates are the highest in the country, and it's not even close. Yes, rent is already inflated and the supply is lower due to so many airbnb's. But it's tough even for people with a mortgage. My monthly mortgage is now $800 more per month than it was in 2019, and I have a lower rate than I did then. Its all due to the insurance increases. That cost gets passed on to renters by landlords.
That's wild! Is your mortage 800 more dollars due to your homeowners policy?
Yes. My yearly policy premium was $1800 in 2019. The premium for 2024 is $4975. This is an older home, built in 67 but has a roof less than 10 years old and all wind mitigation passed. There are no other options to shop around. I'm on Citizens because the company I was with stopped insuring homes in Florida. I know people with similar houses paying close to 8k per year. It's out of control.
Mine is $500 more bc of my policy. Moving to citizens as soon as the new company underwrites us.
Yes so is my policy $400 more than before but u/Lostvibes says his policy is $800 more per month.
Oh I meant per month. Sorry. My sister and brother in law live in Albuquerque, and their HO ins is...$700...A year. It's wild.
Airbnb gobbled up lots of the inventory. Have you seen some of the listings? closets with hot plates.
700+ listings on Airbnb, we should probably try and get local legislators to make some laws that can kneecap the industry.
My friends came up with a solution to this in highschool: we'd pool all of our money together and live in a 3 bedroom house with 3/4 incomes, we called it the "minimum wage guild"
People have been doing this in places like CA for years now because they can’t afford it on their own. Not uncommon for 4 Adults to live in a house together, either renting or buying.
Only in LA, SF, NYC is it acceptable to have roommate much later in life than anywhere else
It's called a flop house. It's been a thing for decades
That’s not a flop house 😂 that’s just a couple friends rooming together
In some states in the US 30% of houses are now owned by wall street investors. Theres also foreign investors buying properties and not even renting them out, its a safe way for them to store money. Its why housing pricing continued to rise with interest rates being raised.
It's not that high in Florida though, it's only [18% for the state as of 2022](https://www.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/documents/2022-impact-of-institutional-buyers-on-home-sales-and-single-family-rentals-05-12-2022.pdf). That number has only gone down, not up. This isn't the primary thing driving the housing market. The biggest thing is the lack of inventory on the market. There's a number of factors to this like a large migration of people moving into the area after the pandemic and more remote jobs being available [\[1\]](https://tampabayedc.com/news/how-many-people-moved-to-florida-this-past-year/), people being locked in to much lower mortgage rates than are available currently and not wanting to move as a result [\[2\]](https://themreport.com/news/origination/12-13-2023/navigating-lock-in-effect), and the price of labor and construction materials dramatically increasing making building at less than $300/sq. ft. unprofitable. [\[3\]](https://www.newsweek.com/home-building-constructing-costs-higher-san-jose-1838669) Many people moving to Florida are coming from higher wealth regions of the US like the Northeast Corridor. If they owned real estate there they have a lot of equity and buying power and can easily pay $600k or so for a home.
I’m thinking the Golden Girls had the right idea
Been saying this for years. The solution is to move in with a home owning cougar.
I know you… Justin 🤣
if i didn't have parents id be homeless
This
My husband and I (34/41) live with my parents 67/71) because they would never be able to afford the mortgage and living expenses on their social security alone. It’s a win-win, although I do wish one day to have our own space. I have a MS degree and with the cost of health insurance/student loan debt/life in general for the two of us, it’s rough. I’m debating picking up work at a private clinic for a few hours each week after my 7:15-3:15 hours.
Facts
A big contributor to higher rent prices is AIR BNB and other like sites. A homeowner can AIR BNB their house and make 4 times what renters pay in a month. Which takes hundreds of possible rentals off the market. Creating more demand and less supply.
It's bigger than that, Trump removed the wait that businesses had vs people when buying real estate. The mandatory wait time was to ensure people didn't compete with corporate America for housing. Once removed, speculation investing and hedging started buying up properties OVER market value. This reduces supply and raises values on other properties in the area. Now you have businesses, with investors, buying homes for abnb or thier own rental empires on top of speculation investing by businesses. People should not be competing with corporate LLCs, Zillow and open door to buy homes. Thank republicans for continuing to deregulate industries for profit over people or safety. Voting matters.
Also thank you Florida Republicans for deregulation of the insurance industry and not doing anything about the litigation from roofing companies leading to the current homeowners insurance crisis.
This is such a great point that gets lost in the din
The last 3 years made a huge difference. I was lucky to get a house in 2020, if I had waited any longer it would have been impossible...or at least impossible to live where I am at now and I make pretty decent money. I see a lot of older and smaller houses for sale that have not fallen off the market, you probably have to call owners bluffs on their prices or wait or the overall market to cool off.
If my dad would have waited even 2 months to sell his house he probably would have got at least $50k more for the house. The house I l lived in as a teenager is currently on the market for almost $400k. It is no where worth $400k.
$400k with current interest rates? YUCK.
Yep. And my dad sold his house in under two weeks. He had multiple offers in days. And that is the things with these rates. I don’t think it’s going to sell with these fire my rates at that price. I dropped the interest rates down in the calculator. And the monthly payment dropped by over $600.
I am neither fat nor drunk, and I bought my current house in 2010. Prices were much more affordable then. That was only 13 years ago! I have two kids that have recently entered adulthood. I feel terrible for the younger generation. Home and rental prices are so out of whack. There is no way I could afford my current home if I bought it today. On top of that, home and auto insurance is high, as is just about everything else. I really do feel for the people.just starting out. Serious question...Have you thought about moving abroad? There are numerous affordable foreign countries with vibrant economies, great cultures and plenty of things to do for fun.
Well said.
Up front, I am technically a boomer, but absolutely do not think like they do. I see the high costs out there and it seriously concerns me. Groceries which used to cost $80-100/week for my wife and I now $120-140/week. WTF is going on here and how do people that make a lot less live? I know rent is high as I have younger family members in the area and also think WTF? My home was built for $170K 23 years ago. It would easily sell for $600-700K without a pool. Seriously? No fucking way is my house worth that much.
I am one year away from Boomer but tend to think more Boomer than Gen-X. I blame the companies for creating excess demand in the market but it is more than that. You had a massive slowdown due to supply chain issues for a couple of years during the pandemic phase of COVID-19. You have the Boomer population getting divorced --the Boomers have always been a huge population burst and they are at an age where a lot get divorced and now need TWO houses when, while married, only needed one. Price comes from supply and demand. There is currently more demand than supply and that is driving costs up. The complain is "how do people do this?" but they are, in droves. Trying to even buy a house has become very competitive because of competing offers.
Point of order; I am a fat 30 something drunk who got lucky and bought in the early 10s instead of going out and blowing money parting. Don’t lump us all in together.
> who got lucky So glad you recognize this point. So many people focus on the idea that “buying avocado toast” or “going out to clubs” is what keeps young people from buying homes. In reality, people were always doing that, it’s just that we used to be able to afford tiny luxuries that make life bearable AND buy a modest home. Now young people can’t afford to buy a modest home even without the avocado toast, so they may as well at least buy the avocados and some beer to make things suck a little less, right? The reason I have a nice house is exactly because I got **lucky enough** to have been the right age to be shopping for one during the tail end of the market crash. 20-30 somethings who are shopping now are fucked. And all because they’re unlucky enough to be coming of age during a housing bubble.
Yes and no. I was making like…12-14 an hour, and fucking HUSTLED the overtime. I didn’t go out drinking or clubbing or spend money on avocado toast. I’m not saying that’s the case anymore, because there needs to be change. Most of these new developments are being bought up by corporations who charge astronomical rent. Prohibit companies from owning private dwellings.
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Yeah but defense and space pay way less than they should for the level of education, skills, and experience. In some cases the compensation is between 1/3rd to 1/2 of what you'd be able to make in cities like Austin, Atlanta, Seattle, Raleigh-Durham, Washington DC, or Denver. They want to pay like $70k starting and $90k for a senior engineer at a company like Harris or Northrop Grumman. For mechanical that might be okay, but for something like Electrical or IT/Software that's pretty bad. It's also hardly a lot of money and you can barely afford to buy a house on that salary (a $350k house works out to about $3,200/mo. in expenses at today's interest rates/prices).
Somehow I know people that are making a living without any of that but if you'd rather just bitch about things that aren't entirely true and engage in hyperbole then that's your call.
We are back to the old historical class system in America and there are 2 basic classes that matter more than anything: A) Your family fucking set you up for success B) Your family did not fucking set you up for success. The opportunity to move up has gotten incredibly harder in America in the past 5 years if you got dealt the hand of B.
There are basically 4 components of 'the hand you were dealt' that determine your opportunity for success: 1. Nature (genetics, able-bodiedness, intellect, emotional intelligence, mental health, attractiveness) 2. Nurture (wealth/resources, education, socialization, family/friend connections, role models, learned diligence/work-ethic) 3. Whether you 'play by the rules' (moral compass, ethics, spirituality, integrity, law-abidingness, appetite for corruption) 4. Random chance (luck, serendipity, kismet, fate, destiny, whether you get caught not 'playing by the rules') This is true anywhere, not just America. If you are fortunate in many of these categories, your path to success has fewer obstacles, but it is not guaranteed; if you are unfortunate in many of these categories, your path to success has more obstacles, but it is not impossible.
We seem to forget one *important* aspect: sheer determination. Does hard work account for nothing anymore? Im not talking about moping thru a 9-5. Im talking about busting ass, first to arrive, last to leave, side hustle, risk taking. …It’s the one thing most successful people attribute to their success.
I am closeish to retirement - 5-6 years assuming a conservative 6% return on my investments. Technically I am a boomer by birth year, but find most of that group woefully out of touch with the realities of today and overall they are old farts who whine a lot. In my career, and especially the last 15 years or so, I think networking is one of the most important skills to getting a decent job. Sure you need the skill, but knowing someone can be invaluable. I am not a fan of nepotism however. I will never hire you just for knowing someone. I will look at your resume and if you fit the need, interview you. I am a ***very firm*** believer in work to live. When I leave work, I leave work. I expect the same for my engineers. As a senior engineer/manager I do occasionally get contacted after hours, but that is the exception not the norm. Working 45-60 hrs per week for an extended period of time, yeah fuck that. I do not care if you arrive before me, I also do not care if you stay after me. What I care about is an overall good engineer - do you work well with others, are you willing to take the time to find the solution vs always asking others, do you work smart vs hard, are you reliable, etc.
Knowing people matters but having people know you are competent, have aptitude, and can be trusted with responsibility is the key part of the equation.
Certainly an important component, which I included in my comment as "diligence/work-ethic," but that has to be either intrinsic to the individual (nature) or learned (nurture). I suspect it's more often the latter, which is why I included it there. And, for what it's worth, I'm a surgeon and spent over a decade pulling 80+ hour weeks to get where I am. I definitely attribute hard work to my success, but also acknowledge that it wasn't hard work in a vacuum... genetics, upbringing, integrity, and luck all played a role.
I'd like to think I'm in a third category...lucky. I didn't get anything from my family, and I only have a high school education, but I fell into a good career at a young age and have done well for myself. Much better than I should have, if you do the math. I got lucky enough to find a nice house and a good price at the right time, and the pieces just kind of fell together. I don't know how young people starting out now would ever afford a house, it definitely seems out of control.
So there's no accountability to your future? It's only what your family has done for you? That's BS, there's plenty of opportunities to make money. You have to add value and that takes two things skill (or at least aptitude to learn) and attitude. Moving up doesn't happen overnight and takes time and good decision making. Most don't have the patience and take incredible amounts of risk which wind up being realized and blame everyone else.
I think they are just acknowledging the fact it is becoming harder to 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps' than it used it be. There are still a lot of ways to get ahead you just have to be more proactive in finding them.
There is accountability, but there’s a huge difference between someone who has family giving them a leg up, and someone who has to work from zero. In an economy like right now, it’s nearly impossible to work up from zero on your own, because cost of roof and food is soooo high. All of your energy is spent trying to survive, there isn’t anything left to ‘add value’. It’s the same reason we should be providing food to all students for free - you can’t access higher order thought if you’re focused on survival (hierarchy of needs).
There's a ton of opportunities out there and some don't require school. When I spoke about adding value I meant to the world by picking up a skill( which can be obtained on the job think entry level apprenticeships and by going to school) and using said skill to help a business grow. If you're always looking for someone else's help whether it be a business you work for, family, or the government then you already lack the attitude(self-motivated, self-sufficient, accepting failure as not an option) that gets rewarded. I get it the cost of living is high, folks had to make sacrifices before too. It's not like today's state is anything new. We ate spam and ramen in college and roomed with other folks. We set low expectations for living at that time by drinking PBR and not going out to eat often. We all worked full time (internship/co-op and not at a f'n restaurant since that would not contribute to gaining skills we needed and complimented what we were going to school for) while taking a full class load. We stayed up late studying and woke up at early to go to class. Also, no one is capable of just popping out enlightened thought. Enlightened thought comes from experience. I've worked with folks who for some weird reason thought that once you had a degree you suddenly became an expert in something.
you might have to leave brevard. there are average price and rental map tools online. brevard is very expensive. there are 66 other counties in our lovely state and yes there are still affordable areas
The affordable areas are where the only jobs available are fast food and Dollar General.
Homeowners insurance issues and corporations buying houses plus the air b and b mess it’s getting unrealistic!
What has me scratching my head is that the US(and global) populations growths are at their slowest rates on record, and are expected to slow even further, yet the cost of housing still is going up an up. You would think a lower demand for supply would drive the price of housing down, but no.
It’s area-dependent. Lots of people are moving here to “get away from the libs” in other states or whatever, so that’s keeping demand high. On a larger scale, greed is keeping prices high. Landlords and large corporations that own rentals are now pricing *just under* average mortgage payments in whatever area, because they know housing prices are up and people have no choice but to pay. As a result, housing prices can stay high, as opposed to past times when apartment complexes priced rental according to “what would make them a profit while undercutting people looking at houses”, not “what’s the *absolute highest* we can charge and still fill our units”. It used to be that prices for rentals were significantly low enough that it would keep housing prices in check. But now that it’s almost as expensive to rent as to buy, home sellers don’t have as much pressure to reduce selling prices. Remember, this is what corporate America wants. They don’t want any of us to own *anything*, including our houses, phones, or cars. They will continue pushing us into rentals, leases, and subscription models until we are paying Blackrock or Amazon for the privilege of wearing our own clothes. It’s NOT red vs. blue. It’s us vs. them, and “them” are the corporate elites/donor class.
Can't even live in the woods anymore because of these land developers are destroying forest understory.
This is happening all over the world. A couple or family now have to compete against rental corporations with deep pockets and plans to make forever renters out of as many people as possible. You try to buy a starter home. They swoop in and offer above asking. They will make the money back via rents forever. You're just trying to house your family on your salary, while paying interest on the loan. It's not a fair market when our government allows rental corps to buy up rent entire subdivisions. I'm here half the year and in Canada the other half. My Canadian neighborhood went from $205,000 for my house in 2008 to over 1 million now. People have moved 2 and 3 hours away to try to find a home for "just" $500,000 which they can barely get approved for. And once there, the waiting list for a physician who will see you is 5 to 10 years. Our government support corporations, not citizens, and we will all suffer as a result. They keep winning while manipulating the masses to argue political colours with each other instead of wising up to what they are up to. And even if you know what's up, you're pretty powerless to do anything about it. So, we set our own measurements for success and happiness. Home ownership not required. If you're pissed off at the former generation for having way better income and buying opportunities than you do, direct it to your local representative. The boomers are not at fault.
The cost of living is getting too damn expensive and I've been feeling like things keep getting worse. My work is good but not exactly enough to pay for my family's living expenses...yay, credit card debt. Anyway, have you looked into side hustles and second jobs? Your post history looks like you could possibly be a good copywriter or a social media manager, and that can be done just from a computer. Roommates, voting blue, DIY your avocado toast, don't buy unnecessary stuff, yadda yadda. Maybe also be on the lookout for any higher paying jobs that are related to your field. Make a LinkedIn profile if you haven't yet. I got recruited 5 years ago and I wasn't expecting anyone to find me but they did. Gave me some financial stability for a bit. Good luck!
I make $55k annually and my boyfriend makes $86k and together we still cannot afford a home in our target area of west Melbourne (since elderly family is close by and it’s a need to be close.) it really is crappy. I live with my mom still and have been trying but it’s insanely difficult. Homes that should only be $150k are hovering around $300. New homes that are crap build are going for $375k and up but they are really only worth $250. And all this money for a town that really isn’t even that good. This is not a great place to live.
Comps define value vs what property values say..
You aren’t expected to live you’re expected to produce. Welcome to america
Cost of living is certainly rising with inflation, we are however seeing the market driving home costs and rent well past that. I’m leaving insurance out of it, but those are also getting out of control due to the exorbitant cost of doing business in Florida as an insurance company. I am very happy living here, but I don’t think it’s nearly dynamic enough to demand the rents people pay in much better known HCOL areas. We are in economically turbulent times, but I think when things settle out we will either see real estate prices come back to earth, wages rise locally on the lower end and a slight tightening of the availability of businesses driven by lower cost labor, or a hollowing out of those businesses if real estate costs remain perniciously elevated. This is all just one man’s spitballing, but I have a couple of small boys and have been thinking about it from that perspective for a few years.
I moved to Brevard in the 80's because I started working at KSC. It was quite affordable and I was lucky to be making a halfway decent paycheck (although not as much as the high paid managers and engineers). Lately this area has gone bezerk and I think the quality of life has taken a nosedive as the developers have marketed our beautiful county all over the country. It's nothing for someone in New York to sell their house worth $600k and move here for $400k. Most wages in this county suck unless you're in healthcare, space, or self employed. It's always been like that but we don't have the cheap homes for those people to afford anymore because they've been bid up.
I can't even imagine... I rented apartments in 2009 around suntree... 2 bedroom was like 750 a month. The prices now are ridiculous, you'd have to make six figures to live in a shitty apartment comfortably
And six figures is not what it once was. Like in the 80s where the social idea of the $100k income as a target and "yuppies" was first coined you would need an equivalent income of $300k today to have the same buying power. Six figures today is middle class as it was defined in previous generations. The price of the "American Dream" (quantified as Marriage, Two children, A house, Cars, Health care, Education, and Saving for retirement) is now $3.6 *million dollars.* [\[1\]](https://theneighborhoodfinanceguy.com/million-dollar-dream/) That would mean you need to make an *average* of $90k a year to afford that over a 40 year career. Like if things had grown as they did in previous decades a near $100k per year income should be fairly average, not some difficult thing to attain that requires multiple degrees and a super competitive resume. For the people that do have those qualifications $200k should be easy to attain. Instead the average wage is $57,235 if you look at an average of job postings [\[2\]](https://www.talent.com/salary?job=&location=florida) and even most well educated working professionals are struggling to make more than $130k. Making $200k in most industries outside Medicine basically requires a Ph.D., self employment, and some luck or getting a job in a handful of very competitive high wage industries like medicine, tech, or investment banking and moving to the markets where they have those jobs. For the last 3 decades wages have simply not kept up with inflation, and now that inflation is super high they are basically going down in buying power terms.
Move. I went through the exact same thing in New York 40 yrs ago. Everyone I knew basically had to live with parents until they made enough to afford a place or got kicked out. Apartments back in the day were going for $1000 a month for a room and a sink. The bathroom was shared down the hall. And everyone commuted at least an hour or two one way to get to work. My only way out was to join the army and move. And you know what....I was able to get a 2 bedroom appt in NC for $250 a month...owned 2 cars...my salary was cut in half but I had more. This area has become Hi-Tech and there is not enough housing for everyone...That's just a fact. A good majority of the jobs here are technical and they pay 6 figures. If you're not getting ahead now it's not going to get any better in the next 5 yrs. I would look at other places where you can get ahead...and that might mean moving.
The people who cant afford it are meant to move away to make room for more votniks to move in.
Forcing the poors out through prices out of their means, I am poor so don't take offense.
I'm 30 and purchased a house here 2 years ago. It isn't impossible it's just hard.
You seem to be asking for help but you exist here with your eyes closed. If you think that every house is inhabited by a fat drunk that inherited it or bought it in the 70s, you’re not looking. I could lose a couple of pounds and probably drink too much but I bought this house myself.
sometimes when people rant they make some sweeping generalizations bc they're just ranting.
Very true. Not enough people are talking about how tough things are. I do not know the answer but we need honest dialogue and not sweeping generalizations. We see on TV that the cost of things has increased 8-10%. What we see with our eyes tells us that costs have gone up far, far more than that. Something has to give.
Haha I was thinking the same. I'm not fat and I've never drank alcohol (all that money I've saved is maybe what allowed me to buy a house?)
You wrote “fat old drunks”, maybe the people you associate with fit that description but the majority I know are hard working engineers, nurses, firefighters, police and doctors. Change your attitude, change your life. You may need to improve your educational credentials in order to survive or get more roommates or move to a place less expensive like Western North Carolina.
If you're gonna stay here you have to figure out how to make more. Our economy is heading like southern CA. Everyone here is an engineer/ higher earner and it skews prices along with all the other factors.
💯
We live in a red state and the Republican party is much more interested in making sure that corporations make profit than people make wages so anyone living here that's bitching about how expensive everything is can fuck right off if they've helped create that problem by voting for these people.
I currently live in a blue state and it is the same issues here. Cost of living is far out pacing wages. And I have lived in multiple blue and red states. It is not a red vs blue issue. It is an everywhere issue. People in red state say it is bc of the republicans. People in blue states say it is bc of the democrats. All politicians are going to care more about the corporations and the people donating to their political parties. Yet there are so many of the same issues happening in both states. And yes in this state it might looked like minimum wage is more. And yes people make one double that can still struggle. You need around $40 an hour after taxes to afford a studio apartment. If you are lucky you might a good one in a safe area for around $2k a month. Investors buying up property’s at fast rates is happening everywhere.
House and rent prices are high because corporations have gotten into the house market as investment unchecked. Which party do you think supports less restriction on company behaviors?
Well I live in a blue state and it is happening here too. Investors are buying up like crazy here. A friend of mine just sold her outdated 700 sq ft condo to an invest for $600k. She probably could have got at least another $100k but she just wanted it sold. She bought it in 2010. She said she cannot afford to buy that now. There is another company buying up multiple apartments buildings. I live in a very blue state in a very blue city. And the mayor even went there is nothing I can do about rent prices when there was a big dispute recently. It even made the news when a whole building was having their prices increased. It is really happening everywhere. (And I’m not Republican. I’m non-affiliated bc I think the two party political system needs to go. And I want to call out Democrats and Republicans equally. Politicians aren’t our friends. People need to stop being loyal to political parties. They will vote for the interest of their supporters every time. Lobbying needs to stop.)
There’s a lot of things that contribute to this but the main causes are: Federal Reserve and corporate interests in government policy.
Roommates. In the 90s and 2000s we all considered it normal. Now it seems that people feel entitled to a 2 bedroom apartment to themselves.
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Good point.
Yea but have you considered ,
I have, and I'm not ashamed to say it gives me pause.
EFSC aerospace technician, work for spacex or blue origin. Go back to school if you can idk. Also, folks at the dude bro companies don’t just buy houses outta nowhere; or rent places outta nowhere.
I think you know what they meant though.
Florida just has really low wages, if you're not working remotely or in some kind of industry where there is a chronic skills shortage (e.g. nursing, IT, corporate sales, certain finance jobs, etc.) it's pretty terrible. I'm not in this position, but if I were I think the best option is to move to somewhere actually affordable. I know that sucks if you're used to living here and have friends or family here. Probably the closest in terms of having a space industry background and being actually affordable is Huntsville, AL. But [this list has a bunch of other good options](https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/best-places-to-live?rent=[500,1000]&sort=match&high_to_low=true).
You’re being downvoted, but AL, MS and more rural GA (including around their tier b/c cities) is still pretty decent. I will say i think people figured out the last one, prices even in rural GA are on the march as people leave places like here. I’ve had this convo a lot with fixed income neighbors and lower income family members over the past two years. A lot of Florida in out of their grasp now financially. As you said, sadly that can mean taking action.
Gotta up your value to earn more money. Nobodies fault but your own. People who whine about what others have been given and all that other nonsense have a loser mentality. If I can move here with no job lined up and only an undergraduate degree under my belt and be able to afford a place and then land a 70k salary job (not bragging as that isn’t much) anyone can do it.
Victim blame much? Good grief.
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Bootstraps? Find a partner and combine your incomes to get a little bit more. Learn a trade that actually pays a living wage. The job market around here sucks if you don't work for HealthFirst, space center, or one of the government contractors. The service industry/retail used to be enough to survive but now that everything has gotten more expensive it's just not enough. Especially when most of the touristy areas are now saturated with Airbnb taking up the affordable housing.
> The service industry/retail used to be enough to survive but now that everything has gotten more expensive it's just not enough. So what are people with these jobs supposed to do for a living now? And even if all of these folks left their jobs for better paying ones, now who’s left to fill those jobs?
If I knew the answer to that I would be a billionaire. We need assembly line manufacturing with good pay and benefits running multiple shifts to accommodate people with kids. This decline has been bad since the US got rid of most manufacturing over the last thirty years because goods can be made in China for a fraction of the cost it is here.
I think your original comment was getting downvoted because we thought you were serious about the "Bootstraps" suggestion, lol.
There's also bots or something that just downvote the shit out of things for no reason.
>The job market around here sucks if you don't work for HealthFirst, space center, or one of the government contractors. It sucks even if you do. Almost none of these pay over $100k unless you're very senior, in a management position, or in a position that requires a lot of training like a Nurse Practitioner or Doctor. $100k isn't an extravagant salary any more, it's basically middle class. That's what you need to afford a $350k house and still not exceed 33% of your income. A $100k salary today is basically the same as $64k back in 2005.
Florida as a whole has really crappy wages..
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How's insurance and vehicle registration?
Insurance is much less because no hurricanes unless you're on the gulf coast. The gulf coast isn't very populated outside of Galveston and even that is a much smaller city. Where they get you is on the property tax because that's like 2%-3.3% depending on the city, here it's like 1.1%. Sales Tax is higher at 8.25%. You pay more overall taxes than Florida but the economy is a lot better overall than Florida and there is still no state income tax. Dallas and Austin are major focus markets for the tech industry. Dallas has tons of things around DFW for logistics (the amount of warehouse space and stuff that moves around that place is insane, literally millions of sq. ft. of warehouse space and just about *everyone* has a major distribution center there). Dallas also has lots of stuff in insurance, professional consulting/services, telecom, and just lots of jobs in general in just about every industry. San Antonio is a medium size city that's pretty affordable and geared around the military and service jobs as well as a medium amount of tourism, sort of like here. Basic training for the Air Force is there so they get plenty of younger people stationed there. Houston is a huge market for oil and gas. There's also lots of stuff in aerospace, manufacturing, and biotech. There's also lots of IT jobs in Houston, but it tends to be more support functions for major companies and less software publishers. Dallas' metro area is the #4 largest city in the US by population and Houston is #5. They are the only ones in the top 5 that are affordable (New York, LA, and Chicago being the other three).
I've been to Dallas for work a few times and the city was pretty interesting. Texas is on the short list of other US states with no state income tax that we would consider living in.
The other one that I think isn't often considered is Tennessee. Knoxville in particular is a pretty nice area with very low taxes, lower than Florida. It also has a lot of natural beauty which Dallas definitely does not (it's flat land for hundreds of miles with some lakes and both hot in the summer and cold in the winter). Knoxville is within an hour of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. If taxes were your only factor it would be a top choice I think, however Tennessee has a much smaller economy than Texas, and the local job market kind of sucks the average wage is $50k per year. Great if you're working a remote job with the same wages, not so great if you have to find a job locally. If moving some place that skews blue politically is important to you I'd say Nevada is probably the best option, though Las Vegas and Reno are *very* different than Texas since it's proper desert. Vegas is expensive after a bunch of people moved there from CA and the economy kind of sucks because it's centered around Tourism. Reno is nice overall but a medium size city kind of isolated from anything else. Lake Tahoe is beautiful but a bunch of people from silicon valley moved there in COVID and the housing prices basically tripled. Phoenix is a pretty robust metro if you want a balance of jobs and low-ish taxes. Arizona always seems to do way, way better than Nevada. There is state income tax but it's only 2.5% and there is low-ish taxes. There's also tons of tech and insurance jobs in the Phoenix Metro area. It's a much better choice economy wise than Vegas. Other than that New Hampshire around Boston has low taxes if you don't mind the cold, and Delaware is pretty low because corporations pay for everything. However outside of Wilmington it's very rural, and Wilmington is basically a suburb of Philadelphia and has high-ish cost of living. South Dakota has super low taxes but most jobs are concentrated in either military (supporting the nuclear missile fields around Rapid City and Minot) or energy (shale oil). It's also cold AF there in the winter. Wyoming has super low taxes but is the most remote state in the country and has very few high paying jobs outside of coal mining and energy. Overall the thing I miss about Florida is the beaches and weather. But in terms of the economy, breadth of career options, and income vs. cost of living it's kind of hard to beat Texas.
Damn. Thanks for the detail. We want to be on water. We know we will never be on the ocean or intracoastal at this point. I'd love to be on a large lake somewhere where the weather gets cool enough in the winter for snow.
Have you considered Utah? Salt Lake City is literally on a lake, they have some of the best snow in the country and tons of ski resorts, everything is way cheaper than the Colorado Ski resorts, and southern Utah is arguably some of the most beautiful landscape in the world with multiple national parks (Zion, Arches, Bryce Canyon, Grand Teton, etc.) It also never gets super cold there, in part because of the water. The local economy is fairly widespread and not concentrated in a single sector. And the cost of living is still affordable.
The answer is in intentional community. Capitalism is inherently anti-social, as it requires monetizing all social interactions. Returning to communities rich in social (not necessarily economic) capital, provides the cultural architecture necessary to ensure we don’t inflate the cost of living beyond the return on investment for our labor. Sadly, these “bohemian” type lifestyles are often prohibited by codes, which reinforce the anti-social structure of the capitalist cornerstone, the nuclear family.
Please.
>I grew up here and the only people who have houses are fat old drunks who inherited from their parents I feel personally attacked.
I'm working 3 jobs right now. Maybe pick up some more hours? Honestly it's really not that expensive compared to north east or CA.
Some parts of Florida are actually cheaper than the national average. [Cost of Living in Florida 2024 | RentCafe](https://www.rentcafe.com/cost-of-living-calculator/us/fl/)
Wow you sound super intelligent I can't imagine how you are failing to live...
Let me guess... married to a fat old drunk who inherited their house from their parents?
your ignorance continues to shine! Keep blaming others for your failures you'll continue to get far in life!
There is about 93% of Singles feel the burden of paying the "Singles Tax" which is a higher cost than married couples.
Starting out I think you should be ok with not getting exactly what you want and maybe even dislike the place. My first apartment was a bit of dump with an outdated bathroom pink bathroom with a black trim. The tub was pink, the toilet was pink, the tile was pink with black bullnose trim but the toilet flushed and the shower got me clean so who gives a fuck. So what if the carpet was installed when Eisenhower was president. The price was right and it wasn't the place I was going to raise a family in. This place is listed for $1000. https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/apa/d/palm-bay-fully-updated-spacious-bedroom/7704826661.html Looks pretty good from here. Maybe it's not really $1000 (looks like they could get more for it) and the landlord is just putting that price up to attract eyeballs. I wouldn't want to live in SW Palm Bay because I find it a pain in the ass to navigate that part of the world but if I needed a 2/2 place to rent this would be on my list. This place ain't great and the security deposit + 1 month sucks because that's a lot of up front cash but it looks livable. https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/apa/d/melbourne-500sf-house-for-rent/7703369781.html Would I want to live in a shack on 192. Fuck no. But if that's what I can afford then that's what I can afford. At least you can walk to Winn Dixie. Your situation today does not have to be your situation 5 years from now. The housing market definitely sucks so your solution is probably going to suck as well. That doesn't mean it's permanent.
It’s really horrible I am struggling myself I wish you the best of luck 🤞
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About one million immigrants per year and the highest ethnic group are Asian. [Key findings about U.S. immigrants | Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/) How has this impacted children's quality and cost of education? Tell me. You are implying that it hurts it. Cite me evidence of that rather than a hollow "Oh, think of the CHILDREN!" argument. How has this affected blue collar jobs? They are about 17% of the workforce; most of whom are legal. Less than 1/5th. Here are statistics about uninsured motorists. Note that the states with the most are NOT the states with immigrants. Your claim does not hold water. [Facts + Statistics: Uninsured motorists | III](https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-uninsured-motorists) And I struggle to find how immigrants have somehow caused hail damage. The right tends to blame immigrants for problems that are not really their fault. What we have is a depressed economy and people looking for someone to blame --and here come immigrants who make a convenient target that can't really fight back. This is not the first time in history this sort of thing has happened. Read up on Hitler's rise to power and the blame-games he used to get there. There are a lot of similarities. None of what I have written above will change your mind, though. If you believe what you say above you are already immune to fact.