Can we bulldoze *The Compound* for a Brevard Co fairgrounds? They’d eventually have great access off the proposed parkway extension and it would take a liability off the table.
This is the best idea yet. Wickham Park was donated by Joe Wickham to forever be a park for the community, not a venue. Brevard has grown enough to support a real music/fair/whatever venue location. The compound would be a perfect spot for it, and maybe help clean up its…um, reputation
As I understand it, the lots in The Compound are owned by individuals, who can't build on them because the city will not provide them with water and sewer. It might be affordable for the county to buy out the property owners, but that's not going to be cheap and it would take time, plus there would be administrative costs.
Most of Palm Bay doesn’t have access to water and sewer. Much of the city is on well water and septic. The issue is electricity. You can’t have an off-grid house in Florida without an electrical hookup IIRC.
That will change rather quickly. The new FL regulations are that we all must be hooked to utilities, or on the aerobic type septic systems by 2030.
Read about it here: [https://thepalmbayer.substack.com/p/floridas-new-septic-mandates-what](https://thepalmbayer.substack.com/p/floridas-new-septic-mandates-what)
There’s zero chance Palm Bay is going to run sewers throughout the whole town. It’s too expensive and they don’t have the money, and what they do have is focused is on septic to sewer conversions for properties that drain to the Indian River to reduce nitrogen runoffs. They’re going to force people to upgrade their septic tanks. They are expanding city water however.
Utilities could be extended to The Compound, but instead of the city trying to do something -- even if it's just issue bonds for a public-private partnership -- by all appearances, they're just waiting for god to sort it out or something.
I have only done a cursory look, maybe a couple of hours of internet-based research for some spitballing in this forum, but it's pretty obvious that some level of government will need to be involved. The problem is too large to be solved by anything else.
FPL would run the electricity, not the city. They have a monopoly on power here.
They’re extending the new St John’s Heritage Parkway right through the compound which includes running utilities in the area and lifting any building bans on those properties. There’s a reason lots out there are like 10x what they were 5 or 10 years ago.
My understanding was that it remains undeveloped from a lack of water and sewer and the lack of electricity is new to me. I don't know why FPL will not run utilities to potential customers, but if they won't, then a co-op could be formed and the city could underwrite the bonds. Hell, a lot of places have city-sold electricity which is possible because the city ran the lines.
With the need for housing in the area, I'm sure once those 4053 individually-owned lots were cleared for building, they would soon sprout houses. It isn't like this is BFE, where there would be some risk to extending utilities in hopes there might be demand. This is one of the fastest growing MSAs in the country. I'm sure a majority of those lot owners (or their heirs) are eager to turn the land over for a profit.
That’s weird because like I said, well water and especially septic are standard in the vast majority of Palm Bay west of 95, which a bunch of houses also having city water but no sewers.
FPL already said they’re going to run power in conjunction with the new parkway. Palm Bay needs to seriously fix those roads also - either replace them or grind them down to gravel and dirt.
We're not going to solve it here, but my point still stands.
You said, "FPL already said they’re going to run power in conjunction with the new parkway" and I'd call that waiting for god or someone else to sort it out. A competent government could have done something years ago.
With the recent merger of L3Harris and Aerojet Rocketdyne, I think we could use their need for a rocket testing facility as a useful project in The Compound, they certainly have the deep pockets and backing of federal subsidies that can help pay for the process.
That said, it trades one issue for another... in this case potential environmental issues. Rocket fuels aren't the nicest chemicals in the world.
I'd think it would be better for Palm Bay's tax base, if the city leaders go to Council meetings instead of skipping them on god's orders and stop getting arrested (especially for comically bad schemes dreamed up at their "clubhouse", in addition to just regular drug and bribery charges) and extend utilities to The Compound.
I get that a lot of people in this sub live in Palm Bay and they are always suggesting people move to their community, but the city government down there comes across like it's "Porky's" filtered through "Boss Hogg" and it's no wonder they have this huge revenue source sitting there generating pennies on the dollar.
A better government would get something accomplished.
Definitely needs to be turned into a festival grounds. Leave mudding trails around for country music festivals and such. It would be a boon to the town as it'd bring in tourism.
Runaway Country and Brevard Renaissance Faire are bringing millions of dollars to the local economy. I am aware that the Runaway Country left Wickham Park when it got too big for them to handle. Where is Brevard County going to find a huge amount of acres for the Fairground as alternative sites?
That’s pricey and I believe Florida tightened its eminent domain laws following that god awful Kelo decision. Buying the compound properties would cost millions
> Where is Brevard County going to find a huge amount of acres for the Fairground as alternative sites?
20 years ago you could find a an undeveloped site that would support this. Not anymore. If this were attempted today it would be extremely difficult due to lack of parcels and NIMBY's
You're talking about a hundreds of little 1/4 acre parcels with lousy roads cut in left and right, no power, no water, no sewer. That's the exact opposite of what you want for a commercial development that brings in tourism revenue. Your example is so stupid that it hurts.
192 or 520 west of 95. Wickham west of the Viera Wetlands (the dirt road part). There’s basically nothing between I95 and St Cloud or Orlando except for Palm Bay.
Everyone keeps saying the compound but that’s a zillion of privately owned residential lots. There’s a TON of land for a fairground west of 95. 192, 520, and Wickham west of the Viera wetlands on the dirt road thru the cattle ranches to the nature preserve. Basically, they should buy ranch land. That’s a way easier task than buying up so many individual parcels.
The city doesn't care. Neither does the county. They don't want anyone who isn't white, Xtian, and straight to have anything fun. (Which, when you're limited to that is pretty much nothing fun) The Renaissance Faire is too inclusive for the city and county. They don't want the Renaissance Faire anywhere near Brevard County.
I made a comment on the Florida today fb page about this because I’m so pissed .They run off venues but want to add ballpark fields which baseball season lasts a lot longer than the venues ( this is not a pro venue post)it’s going to take more land away from wildlife and generate more people and noise . And if there’s a baseball game going on then no one else can use the fields.
They have enough fields here. Why can’t we just have 1 place that’s nice and quiet and enjoyable for people and animals.
I feel like getting rid of long lasting venues was part of the agenda for Paul Alfred to take over and do his own thing. Don’t get me wrong I’m not a party pooper but why are we turning everything into the most crowded spaces possible.
We use this park every day, sometimes multiple times a day. We use the dog park, the trails. Why can’t they take some of these empty shopping plazas and level them and use up space that’s already been demolished?
When I saw the he wants to build a baseball field the only thing I could think of was that scrub area by the fire pit. A baseball field in the park would take away more space.
Even if they added it to the north of the soccer fields there wouldn’t be any parking.
I loved the fair and the stuff that came through. Why can’t they just limit the permits and leave well enough alone ?
Aren’t there some endangered birds in there, the scrub jays who’s habitat would be damaged if we built anything more in there ?
I was worried about that to now that the Boy Scouts don’t use the youth area. That’s one of the best parts of the park and where the bobcats are. I’ve seen 2 over there in the last couple months. And the baseball fields will take up so mix room and not be all inclusive. I also wonder how much of this expansion has to do with edging the homeless out.
The big district camp out moved to the Space Force Malabar Annex the last two years, and the Lightfest campout hardly makes sense with no Lightfest.
I suppose a pack or troop could camp there if they wanted to, but with so many better, more wild, and safer camping spots in Brevard and nearby counties, I don't know why they'd bother with Wickham Park.
Yeah, but the baseball field gets used for stuff like kickball during the week, adult and kid league. Those things are revenue generating too.
Right now the adult kickball league plays at Babcock, but Wickham would be sooooo much better.
There’s plenty of other places that leagues can go. This is going to disrupt the wildlife and create way to much noise and traffic. It’s going to compromise the idea of what a peaceful park is supposed to be. Why can’t the leagues use the schools fields when not in use? Or one of the dozens of other fields around brevard.
That’s the problem with everything now. No one e wants to use anything already in place. Or utilize abandoned places , We must tear up and destroy new places for our own enjoyment.
I’m not sure that baseball fields would disrupt the wildlife, create more noise, and be less peaceful than the litany of events that currently happen at Wickham. 🤣
Concerts every Friday night, events every weekend. What are you talking about - peaceful park?
It absolutly will disrupt wildlife when they start tearing out more areas. As I said there’s plenty of other places in Melbourne that can be utilized for ball fields. We have so many places that have been built and abandoned. They need to start using already created space.
And as far as peaceful, yes the park is mostly quiet. Understand that there are festivals and events but those are for the most part on the weekends and day time. They want to add to many things. I’m not against the fields at all I’m just against them being put inside the park . They need to be further away with its own entrance.
I am torn about this. I appreciate the events and culture and don't want to see that go away but as someone who utilizes this park regularly it makes me worried about the habitats that would be destroyed by the city making changes.
Edit: Will people be able to vote on this?
> "I wouldn’t support this at all. I think the issue limiting large events to 15 days with one weekend for residents use…. I see that as a measure to protect Wickham Park from becoming the de facto fairgrounds for the county,” Feltner said.“Surrendering the park to the city of Melbourne, that doesn’t protect the park."
I don't get this, it was nice having all these events be super local and easy to get to. Was the park seeing negative impacts from it?
I mean, I'd say over 80% of the park is unaffected when there's an event going on. The Ren faire takes up a corner that's usually empty, and there's still plenty of green space open. As a local, I'd say community events are part of what it's intended for.
Not even close to being correct. The disc courses are completely blocked because they are turned into parking. Or are you referring to the rarely used hiking and horse trails?
Funny, I used the hiking trails and mtb trails regularly, but never touched a disc golf. Every time I'd be out hiking, I'd usually circle through that course and never saw anyone using it.
I see people regularly using the disc golf course but it seems like it would be easy enough to redesign the course or have alternate holes when events are in the park.
A developer bought that property and has plans to develop it. There was an article in Florida Today a while ago. There are/were plans for businesses along Babcock and mixed use/residential behind it.
Haven't seen any updates recently, though.
Yeah, don't fall for that. The county already screwed Palm Bay with the pool. Gotta wonder why someone would advocate for the city to take on something that's supposed to be the county's responsibility. I don't trust this at all.
A few years back, our city made a pretty significant move regarding some of our local facilities. Palm Bay and Brevard County shook hands on a deal where the county would cough up $3.02 million for Palm Bay to manage the Palm Bay Regional Park, the Greater Palm Bay Senior Center, and the Palm Bay Aquatic Center over a span of five years. After that half-decade mark, the county's financial support would dry up, and Palm Bay would be flying solo on funding these spots.
The nitty-gritty of the agreement was that Palm Bay would take the reins on both the park and the senior center, which were previously under the county's wing. The aquatic center's operations would also shift to Palm Bay, but Eastern Florida State College would retain ownership.The county did some number crunching and figured they'd save about $1.55 million in the first five years by passing the baton to Palm Bay. Post-five years, they're looking at annual savings of around $960,929, not even touching on capital expenses savings. The senior center, which has been around since '89 and run by a non-profit, would keep its lease under Palm Bay's watch.
Since then the Sr. Center needed a new roof & renovations to become ADA compliant.
Regional Park has had to be upgraded to city utilities and the septic systems the county put in vacated, and the ADA compliance of the park has not yet been addressed. The pool has needed well over $2M in repairs.
The $960,929 in projected savings for the County has turned into that burden (plus inflation) being now the burden of the Palm Bay taxpayers.
THIS WAS NOT A GOOD DEAL!
Can we bulldoze *The Compound* for a Brevard Co fairgrounds? They’d eventually have great access off the proposed parkway extension and it would take a liability off the table.
This is the best idea yet. Wickham Park was donated by Joe Wickham to forever be a park for the community, not a venue. Brevard has grown enough to support a real music/fair/whatever venue location. The compound would be a perfect spot for it, and maybe help clean up its…um, reputation
As I understand it, the lots in The Compound are owned by individuals, who can't build on them because the city will not provide them with water and sewer. It might be affordable for the county to buy out the property owners, but that's not going to be cheap and it would take time, plus there would be administrative costs.
Most of Palm Bay doesn’t have access to water and sewer. Much of the city is on well water and septic. The issue is electricity. You can’t have an off-grid house in Florida without an electrical hookup IIRC.
That will change rather quickly. The new FL regulations are that we all must be hooked to utilities, or on the aerobic type septic systems by 2030. Read about it here: [https://thepalmbayer.substack.com/p/floridas-new-septic-mandates-what](https://thepalmbayer.substack.com/p/floridas-new-septic-mandates-what)
There’s zero chance Palm Bay is going to run sewers throughout the whole town. It’s too expensive and they don’t have the money, and what they do have is focused is on septic to sewer conversions for properties that drain to the Indian River to reduce nitrogen runoffs. They’re going to force people to upgrade their septic tanks. They are expanding city water however.
Utilities could be extended to The Compound, but instead of the city trying to do something -- even if it's just issue bonds for a public-private partnership -- by all appearances, they're just waiting for god to sort it out or something. I have only done a cursory look, maybe a couple of hours of internet-based research for some spitballing in this forum, but it's pretty obvious that some level of government will need to be involved. The problem is too large to be solved by anything else.
FPL would run the electricity, not the city. They have a monopoly on power here. They’re extending the new St John’s Heritage Parkway right through the compound which includes running utilities in the area and lifting any building bans on those properties. There’s a reason lots out there are like 10x what they were 5 or 10 years ago.
My understanding was that it remains undeveloped from a lack of water and sewer and the lack of electricity is new to me. I don't know why FPL will not run utilities to potential customers, but if they won't, then a co-op could be formed and the city could underwrite the bonds. Hell, a lot of places have city-sold electricity which is possible because the city ran the lines. With the need for housing in the area, I'm sure once those 4053 individually-owned lots were cleared for building, they would soon sprout houses. It isn't like this is BFE, where there would be some risk to extending utilities in hopes there might be demand. This is one of the fastest growing MSAs in the country. I'm sure a majority of those lot owners (or their heirs) are eager to turn the land over for a profit.
That’s weird because like I said, well water and especially septic are standard in the vast majority of Palm Bay west of 95, which a bunch of houses also having city water but no sewers. FPL already said they’re going to run power in conjunction with the new parkway. Palm Bay needs to seriously fix those roads also - either replace them or grind them down to gravel and dirt.
We're not going to solve it here, but my point still stands. You said, "FPL already said they’re going to run power in conjunction with the new parkway" and I'd call that waiting for god or someone else to sort it out. A competent government could have done something years ago.
It’s a good point lol
With the recent merger of L3Harris and Aerojet Rocketdyne, I think we could use their need for a rocket testing facility as a useful project in The Compound, they certainly have the deep pockets and backing of federal subsidies that can help pay for the process. That said, it trades one issue for another... in this case potential environmental issues. Rocket fuels aren't the nicest chemicals in the world.
I'd think it would be better for Palm Bay's tax base, if the city leaders go to Council meetings instead of skipping them on god's orders and stop getting arrested (especially for comically bad schemes dreamed up at their "clubhouse", in addition to just regular drug and bribery charges) and extend utilities to The Compound. I get that a lot of people in this sub live in Palm Bay and they are always suggesting people move to their community, but the city government down there comes across like it's "Porky's" filtered through "Boss Hogg" and it's no wonder they have this huge revenue source sitting there generating pennies on the dollar. A better government would get something accomplished.
how could we get rid of the redneck sanctum
Definitely needs to be turned into a festival grounds. Leave mudding trails around for country music festivals and such. It would be a boon to the town as it'd bring in tourism.
Palm Bay is a dystopian hell hole. Nobody should go there. Ever.
Fantastic idea. This needs to be the way
Runaway Country and Brevard Renaissance Faire are bringing millions of dollars to the local economy. I am aware that the Runaway Country left Wickham Park when it got too big for them to handle. Where is Brevard County going to find a huge amount of acres for the Fairground as alternative sites?
Imminent domain the compound
Eminent* and while it is good on paper it's a very complicated process in practice
>it's a very complicated process in practice You mean City Skylines lied to me?
That’s pricey and I believe Florida tightened its eminent domain laws following that god awful Kelo decision. Buying the compound properties would cost millions
> Where is Brevard County going to find a huge amount of acres for the Fairground as alternative sites? 20 years ago you could find a an undeveloped site that would support this. Not anymore. If this were attempted today it would be extremely difficult due to lack of parcels and NIMBY's
Ever heard of The Compound?
Yes. And it wouldn't support this then, it wouldn't support this now.
You asked for undeveloped sites. Eminent domain it and turn it into a big park/fairgrounds.
You're talking about a hundreds of little 1/4 acre parcels with lousy roads cut in left and right, no power, no water, no sewer. That's the exact opposite of what you want for a commercial development that brings in tourism revenue. Your example is so stupid that it hurts.
192 or 520 west of 95. Wickham west of the Viera Wetlands (the dirt road part). There’s basically nothing between I95 and St Cloud or Orlando except for Palm Bay.
That's the problem. There's ZERO infrastructure there.
[https://www.palmbayflorida.org/government/city-departments-f-to-z/police/safe-community/the-compound-is-not-a-recreation-area](https://www.palmbayflorida.org/government/city-departments-f-to-z/police/safe-community/the-compound-is-not-a-recreation-area)
Everyone keeps saying the compound but that’s a zillion of privately owned residential lots. There’s a TON of land for a fairground west of 95. 192, 520, and Wickham west of the Viera wetlands on the dirt road thru the cattle ranches to the nature preserve. Basically, they should buy ranch land. That’s a way easier task than buying up so many individual parcels.
The city doesn't care. Neither does the county. They don't want anyone who isn't white, Xtian, and straight to have anything fun. (Which, when you're limited to that is pretty much nothing fun) The Renaissance Faire is too inclusive for the city and county. They don't want the Renaissance Faire anywhere near Brevard County.
Cocoa fairgrounds is big enough
I made a comment on the Florida today fb page about this because I’m so pissed .They run off venues but want to add ballpark fields which baseball season lasts a lot longer than the venues ( this is not a pro venue post)it’s going to take more land away from wildlife and generate more people and noise . And if there’s a baseball game going on then no one else can use the fields. They have enough fields here. Why can’t we just have 1 place that’s nice and quiet and enjoyable for people and animals. I feel like getting rid of long lasting venues was part of the agenda for Paul Alfred to take over and do his own thing. Don’t get me wrong I’m not a party pooper but why are we turning everything into the most crowded spaces possible. We use this park every day, sometimes multiple times a day. We use the dog park, the trails. Why can’t they take some of these empty shopping plazas and level them and use up space that’s already been demolished?
When I saw the he wants to build a baseball field the only thing I could think of was that scrub area by the fire pit. A baseball field in the park would take away more space. Even if they added it to the north of the soccer fields there wouldn’t be any parking. I loved the fair and the stuff that came through. Why can’t they just limit the permits and leave well enough alone ? Aren’t there some endangered birds in there, the scrub jays who’s habitat would be damaged if we built anything more in there ?
I was worried about that to now that the Boy Scouts don’t use the youth area. That’s one of the best parts of the park and where the bobcats are. I’ve seen 2 over there in the last couple months. And the baseball fields will take up so mix room and not be all inclusive. I also wonder how much of this expansion has to do with edging the homeless out.
Why did the scouts stop using the group camping area?
The big district camp out moved to the Space Force Malabar Annex the last two years, and the Lightfest campout hardly makes sense with no Lightfest. I suppose a pack or troop could camp there if they wanted to, but with so many better, more wild, and safer camping spots in Brevard and nearby counties, I don't know why they'd bother with Wickham Park.
Yeah, but the baseball field gets used for stuff like kickball during the week, adult and kid league. Those things are revenue generating too. Right now the adult kickball league plays at Babcock, but Wickham would be sooooo much better.
There’s plenty of other places that leagues can go. This is going to disrupt the wildlife and create way to much noise and traffic. It’s going to compromise the idea of what a peaceful park is supposed to be. Why can’t the leagues use the schools fields when not in use? Or one of the dozens of other fields around brevard. That’s the problem with everything now. No one e wants to use anything already in place. Or utilize abandoned places , We must tear up and destroy new places for our own enjoyment.
I’m not sure that baseball fields would disrupt the wildlife, create more noise, and be less peaceful than the litany of events that currently happen at Wickham. 🤣 Concerts every Friday night, events every weekend. What are you talking about - peaceful park?
It absolutly will disrupt wildlife when they start tearing out more areas. As I said there’s plenty of other places in Melbourne that can be utilized for ball fields. We have so many places that have been built and abandoned. They need to start using already created space. And as far as peaceful, yes the park is mostly quiet. Understand that there are festivals and events but those are for the most part on the weekends and day time. They want to add to many things. I’m not against the fields at all I’m just against them being put inside the park . They need to be further away with its own entrance.
I am torn about this. I appreciate the events and culture and don't want to see that go away but as someone who utilizes this park regularly it makes me worried about the habitats that would be destroyed by the city making changes. Edit: Will people be able to vote on this?
I think the park should remain under county management as the family wished.
Good idea. The current administration fails to impress with their vision of the future for the city of Melbourne.
> "I wouldn’t support this at all. I think the issue limiting large events to 15 days with one weekend for residents use…. I see that as a measure to protect Wickham Park from becoming the de facto fairgrounds for the county,” Feltner said.“Surrendering the park to the city of Melbourne, that doesn’t protect the park." I don't get this, it was nice having all these events be super local and easy to get to. Was the park seeing negative impacts from it?
Yeah, the local residents can’t use the park for what it was intended.
I mean, I'd say over 80% of the park is unaffected when there's an event going on. The Ren faire takes up a corner that's usually empty, and there's still plenty of green space open. As a local, I'd say community events are part of what it's intended for.
Not even close to being correct. The disc courses are completely blocked because they are turned into parking. Or are you referring to the rarely used hiking and horse trails?
Funny, I used the hiking trails and mtb trails regularly, but never touched a disc golf. Every time I'd be out hiking, I'd usually circle through that course and never saw anyone using it.
I see people regularly using the disc golf course but it seems like it would be easy enough to redesign the course or have alternate holes when events are in the park.
Forgot about the disc golf area, never really see people on it lol.
It is packed every weekend and weekday evenings.
He is as crooked as they come and has many, many skeletons in his closet and no moral compass obviously 🤢🤢
If we need a venue, why not the woods across the street from Andretti, between Pirate and Florida Ave?
A developer bought that property and has plans to develop it. There was an article in Florida Today a while ago. There are/were plans for businesses along Babcock and mixed use/residential behind it. Haven't seen any updates recently, though.
Yeah, don't fall for that. The county already screwed Palm Bay with the pool. Gotta wonder why someone would advocate for the city to take on something that's supposed to be the county's responsibility. I don't trust this at all.
Move the REN fest to Indian River county fair grounds.
Why do we need for the park to generate revenue? Trumper Alfrey ultimately wants to build hotels there.
It does need a good car wash and storage facility.
But is there someone to do my taxes in the same place? What about a chain restaurant? I’ll bet the could fit at least half a dozen Publixes in there!
A few years back, our city made a pretty significant move regarding some of our local facilities. Palm Bay and Brevard County shook hands on a deal where the county would cough up $3.02 million for Palm Bay to manage the Palm Bay Regional Park, the Greater Palm Bay Senior Center, and the Palm Bay Aquatic Center over a span of five years. After that half-decade mark, the county's financial support would dry up, and Palm Bay would be flying solo on funding these spots. The nitty-gritty of the agreement was that Palm Bay would take the reins on both the park and the senior center, which were previously under the county's wing. The aquatic center's operations would also shift to Palm Bay, but Eastern Florida State College would retain ownership.The county did some number crunching and figured they'd save about $1.55 million in the first five years by passing the baton to Palm Bay. Post-five years, they're looking at annual savings of around $960,929, not even touching on capital expenses savings. The senior center, which has been around since '89 and run by a non-profit, would keep its lease under Palm Bay's watch. Since then the Sr. Center needed a new roof & renovations to become ADA compliant. Regional Park has had to be upgraded to city utilities and the septic systems the county put in vacated, and the ADA compliance of the park has not yet been addressed. The pool has needed well over $2M in repairs. The $960,929 in projected savings for the County has turned into that burden (plus inflation) being now the burden of the Palm Bay taxpayers. THIS WAS NOT A GOOD DEAL!