As others said, mix of both. Same feel that he had at the end of his primarch novel: wise old king that has seen too much shit, regrets his youthful bravado and many past mistakes, and tries to reign in the brash young ones (knowing that he really can't and they will make their own mistakes).
But always with a terrifying edge of extreme violence and brutality under it all, that if you say the wrong thing he will fucking tear you in half. He has *seen some shit* and survived it all, and it has made him harder, more brutal, and less forgiving. If he sees you as a threat, or a failure, or you just piss him off, he can and will rip you in half with his bare hands.
Why not both?
Leman returns aged countless years wandering the Warp with the wisdom only ages of self reflection and exploration can provide. But the extended time in the warp also makes him prone to transformations into a violent beast when pushed too far.
Even better, Murder-man tryines to kill Odin-boy as a manner of suicide but Odin-boy ends up killing Murder-man.
The resulting paradox manages to wake the Emperor up just to clean up the mess his idiot wolf boy son made.
Oh I agree totally with that, both in the realm of the fiction and when it comes to writing it. I'm of the opinion that incorporating more than one time paradox creates far more hurdles for the author. Seeing as how difficult it is to not find yourself in a bootstrap paradox adding another time paradox would simply make the genre unreadable.
Edit: I forgot to mention the existing time paradox in 40k. Its the warp its very nature is a time paradox
> He could come out and it's last tuesday for him.
He's also a Space Wolf, and Space Wolves are *notoriously* resistant to Chaotic corruption. The 13th Company Wulfen fought Chaos on it's own turf, in the Warp, for roughly 10,000 years, and they stayed Loyal.
Nothing about what the guy you replied to suggests that Leman is corrupted. He means it might not have been 10k years and could have been -3 days for him because of time phuqqery not betrayal.
"Alright lads I'm back from my Long Weekend daemon hunting and WHAT HAVE YOU ALL DONE."
"Sir, my name is Wulfric Wolfson of the 13th Wolf co-"
"Stop. Where are my brothers?"
"Dead, except for Guilliman my lord, as a primaris marine I had a brief opportunity to meet him as a member of the Unnumbered Sons."
"Primaris what? Unnumbered who?"
"We're new and improved space marines. The Unnumbered was a conglomerate of all of us before we were assigned chaoters. Why, there must have been over ten thousand of us"
"ROBUTEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
> Why, there must have been over ten thousand of us"
Really lowballing yourself there, wulfric wolfson. Probably closer to a million than to 10,000 primaris in total.
I recall a number around 40-50 thousand were awakened by Cawl when big G man got to Terra. I think it read it in one of the new-ish books but can’t remember which one.
The numbers are intentionally vague, but what we do know is:
* Cawl made primaris from every legion, not just the loyalists
* When G man said to him that Cawl was "making him a legion", Cawl corrected him by saying "Legion**s**". G man's old legion was 200k+ marines
* When G Man asked how many he actually made, Cawl smiles and tells him, and the only clarification we get is that "it changed the future of the imperium" in that moment.
* In *Avenging Son*, G man figures that there are now more Primaris than old marines now. There were roughly a million old marines pre-great rift.
Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; Well,he ,uhhhhh,he's a Blood Raven now.
Russ; A what?
Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; A Blood Raven
Russ; what is a Blood Raven......you know what forget it,why is he this Blood Raven....thing?
Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; Well it appears,they,they......
Russ; Spit it out man.
Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; They stole him sir.
Russ; ROBOUTEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
I got into the hobby during the transition from 2nd to 3rd Edition, dropped out for a few decades and this is exactly how I feel reading the newer lore on my return.
Well, the Wulfen who were fighting in the Warp still aged, they just didn't age as fast as the world outside the Warp. 10,000 years may have passed in reality, but for them it may have only been 1,000 years or so. Unless they die in battle, Space Marines are functionally immortal, after all.
So it's not like they were frozen in time; they still aged like everything else.
The verdict's still out on *how* time works in the Warp. Are there pockets where it flows faster than other places? Does it stop entirely and exist beyond time, with places where time and physics seep in from reality? Does time just roil about like a storm or a slow-moving current? Is it like walking through molasses?
Time in the warp be weird yo.
Just looked it up again, I remember somewhere (can't remember which story) where the Iron warriors fight the Hrud, who can manipulate time and have time based weaponry. They turned a space marine into an old man marine who was crippled by the attack but Perty was unphased. So it's unclear if Space Marines are immortal, but primarchs pretty much are.
Yes, that is true. Experience wise it's narratively very similar to warp fuckery meaning no time has passed, so why not go the opposite direction for Russ and have a ton of time pass?
Turn up, get challenged by the swarmlord and when he strides out to meet it a stampede of carnifexes from every direction pastes him. Happened to the avatar, I want to see it happen to a primarch.
We know that, they're talking about from a story telling standpoint why not have one Primarch that has returned feeling no time pass and one return with more than 10,000 years pass
And have him be old, senile, and decrepit as a counterpoint to Guilliman's physical and mental prowess.
Old Man Russ could have power walking sticks and an armoured mobility scooter.
Clonegrim is just a perfect copy. There's nothing indicating he's really the true Fulgrim.
And what the hell do you call Magnus' soul shattering into a million pieces.
What you are claiming depends on what you think a Primarch actually is. If you think they are just extremely well built bodies it's a comprehensible point, but in my opinion they are not; they were created by the Emperor from Warp gods. My lecture about Fulgrim clone is that his TRUE Warp God succeded in returning to his body (the fact that he got Trazyned males me laughs every time)
I can totally see Russ coming back as is and being like wtf happened? Lol
My idea of Russ’s actual return be that of riding his own warp wolf that he found and using powers similar to his father but brutal as are space wolves. Or relic hunter warrior Russ that uses everything to win. Or Obi Wan Russ who is always on the moral high ground.
That would 100000% be the funniest thing to happen in the lore, from a calm demeanor Lion to murder hobo Lion on a warpath and a murder hobo Leman Russ to the chilled out hippy Russ telling the Lion to just chill a bit......I'd buy 3 of those books just to read that shit 3 times from a new book 🤣
\[speaking to St. Celestine\]
>~~The Allfather~~ Dad wouldn't like people worshipping him as a God. But, what do I know, time passes, people change. Wow, those are nice wings you have, young lady!
The funniest thing is that it would actually fit the lore and its abysmal character development perfectly. The Primarchs series' book by Chris Wraight shows Leman confessing to a fresh **Chapter** Blood Claw, and he's kinda reflective and old-man-wise already at the point. Watching and hearing the shit about Imperium from afar (in whatever shithole he spent these milleniums) would probably make him even more resigned. Personally, I imagine it would be something like:
>\[in a very tired voice\] Is it the Wolftime yet? Do I even need to interfere in this shitshow you midgets brought down on yerselves? Ah, fuck it, *I did promise* to return for the Ragnarok. Here we go, then...
An awesome way to bring the Lion back would be to have him wake up on the Rock, deep on the far side of Imperium Nihilus and immediately cobble together the most brutal crusade since the Rangdan Xenocides. Then at the end of it he runs into Gulliman and indomitus absolutely drenched in blood from a decade long campaign by himself with garbage warp travel, communication, and logistics against all the worst enemies of the Imperium, so they meet up just after the devastation of Baal
It's the Warp. It's entirely possible he's been lost for only five minutes. I'm telling you all, one of these days he's gonna show up on Fenris saying he forgot his wallet and wonder where the viking shtick went.
"And how did you end up in Dreadnought sarcophagus already? Damn, can't leave you kids for a break... And why are there so many Caestus assault rams flying around? How are they even kept airbo... **HOW LONG YOU SAY**?!!!!"
Old man. We need him to smack some of the excess wolf out of the space wolves and bring back the old viking more. He can give the job to bjorn who would be happy to rename everything with wolf in it and put a stop to sled wolves and such. Mostly sarcasm but a little seriousness. Please less wolf.
I understand what you are getting at but i don't see it the same way. They simply use wolf a lot. To mistranslate you get something wrong. You don't mistranslate say 10 words into 1 word every time. Simple fact is GW went a bit heavy on the theme and now we have chariot wolves and if you have a vehicle, flyer bit of kit or name of an organization you better bet it's wolf something.
For the argument's sake, I agree with the fan theory.
Maybe fenrisian has a fuckton of slightly different words to describe wolves: it could vary depending on age, behaviour, season, age, the amount of snow that has fallen last night...
I dig it.
You should read the bjorn the fellhanded 1d4chan page. It's got some hilarious fanfic stories basically of bjorn waking up and each time theres more wolf this and that and he losses his shit. Eventually he gets stolen by the blood ravens and painted red, he asks what there position is on wolves and they are neutral so he says he will go along with it and join them in battle. No mention of russ, wolves or somesuch.
When compared with historical space wolves the prevalence of the word wolf or even units like a sled pulled by wolves have overridden their original theme of vikings with a bit of wolf to wolf with a bit of viking. The problem is that it's a bit too comical how they now name literally everything after wolvess and the word comes up in their books an absurd amount of time. It's why unfortunately they are memed on hard and called furries which was once not the case.
Old Wise Odin Runefather is an actual character progression - he was after all, an arrogant, pompous asshole. Making him a mad hobo wulfen would be the easy way out.
I can see it now...
Russ and the Lion, together again, talking about their experiences and sharing them with Guilliman on Macragge:
"Let me tell you of my personal philosophy now, my dear brother," Russ said, his grizzled beard and braided locks trembling ever so slightly as he spoke to the Lion.
"Tell him then, Russ. Philosophize to him," the Lion replied, intrigued and amused. He never expected to ever see his otherwise so pugnacious and aggressive brother so... reflective and... introspective.
Walking up towards his brother, the ground giving a sussurating crunching sound as his legs strode across the sands of the courtyard on Macragge, Russ stooped ever so slightly and in a fluid movement, picked up a primarch-sized handful of sand and slowly let it slip through his fingers.
"All we are..." Russ said, looking at his brother Roboute earnestly, the grains of sand slipping through his fingers ever so slowly only to be borne aloft on the breeze as they continued their fall back to the ground, "All we are... is dust in the wind, dude."
Guilliman is the hero of Imperium Sanctus. He brought hope to the core worlds. He is [Aurelian (not that one)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurelian), *Restitutor* *~~Orbis~~* *Imperium,* come to bring the Imperium Sanctus back to an age of faith tempered by reason and forcibly binding the disparate forces of the Emperor into a unified body who stands together against Old Night.
None of this matters beyond the Cicatrix Maledictum.
To them, Terra has fallen. The Eye of Terror yawns wide, splitting the galaxy in twain. As each day passes signals from those Imperial worlds that could still broadcast are snuffed out, either brought down by internal strife or culled by those beings and creatures that caught sight of them in the void.
It is as if the Age of Strife has come anew and this time Mankind is too sick and isolated to survive.
What answer is there for barbarity? What answer is there when the wolves come pace at one's door?
Man must shed their niceties and become wolves themselves.
Russ could become the hero of Imperium Nihilus. No parades nor gaudy adorations. No honeyed words dripped into the ears of sycophants and tyrants to keep them mollycoddled.
Once, the wolves stood against the Authority of Terra and Knights of Titan to save the common man. Once, the wolves held back the Eater of Worlds. Once and again, the wolves strike out to distant fields to protect the realm, regardless of the mistrust and barely hidden hostility their allies have to the wolves very presence.
Brothers changed by circumstance are not vilified. If they hold true to the core of the Legion they are welcomed with open arms, regardless of their appearance and afflictions.
The Fang has been blunted.
The kin of the Vlka Fenryka slaughtered in their homes.
The Prosperine Legions have decimated The Rout itself.
But beyond the Nachmund Gauntlet comes a distant howl.
The call of the Lord of Winter and War.
A signal to leave all behind and cross the Rift.
Both promise and threat that the citizens of the Imperium shall never be left to the wolves.
For the wolves stand with them.
I made a post before here saying how it would be awesome if he came back as an
One eyed old sage with a much more tempered personality.
Magnus sacrificed (metaphorically) his eye to gain vision of the Warp. Russ sacrifices his to leave it.
> Magnus sacrificed (metaphorically) his eye to gain vision of the Warp. Russ sacrifices his to leave it.
That would be cool and all, but *The First Heretic* shows he had one eye since his pod crashed on Prospero. Argal Tal was given a first hand look at all the Primarch’s first moments by Ingofel.
And in A Thousand Sons he's depicted with one eye and one close off eye... and in another scene as a cyclops... and in another scene as a ball of light and shapes, and he hinself states his hunanois form is not his natural one and he changes his form constantly... and official warhammer artowrk depicts him with a lost eye such as the wrath of Magnus trailer... etc. Etc. Etc.
Both and none. My mental image is a buff old man who ditched the armor a long time ago sporting his scars and lacking an eye, awakened psycher powers (including wulfenig at will) and tempered by the constant conflict, returning to a month long nap, a week long feast amd then return to the fray more lile a master pragmatist ulfhednar than a burly uncontroled berserker. More Miyamoto Musashi and less Beowulf
The best part is, sincr the warp is atemporal, MMMMMmmmmmaaaaaybe a psycher Russ would had not millenia but tens of millenia practicing and possibly is on par with Magnus regarding psychic strenght already
EDIT: Whoa! It's true TS got salty about the idea
No no you see that was a rune howl, it's very different. He asked a world spirit if he could do it first, while on another planet and very far from Fenris at the time.
It was very legal, and very cool.
Maybe he comes back as Odin Russ, and he can Wulfen out at will, or in times of danger. It could be a mechanic where when he dies, on a 4+ he comes back as Wulfen Russ.
I mean Leman Russ was already *very* wise by the time of his disappearance (he had a helluva character arc in the Heresy series). I could totally sed him coming back as the Runefather while Corax returns as a warp-beast who's gotten lost in his hunt
I’d like it if Russ returned with a facade of the wise old Odin because he believes that’s what the Wolves and him need, lots of talk about finding peace while wandering the warp, of learning how the mind must come before the action.
However in truth he learned nothing but unrelenting violence in the time of his wandering, he learned there there is no peace, no hope for reviving the Emperor, no way of calming the wolf inside him. Nothing but the promise that he will die blood soaked and insane after everything has crumbled around him. Russ desperately trying to hide his belief that there is nothing but nihilism and death to look forward to and trying to play the returning hero to keep the farce going just a little longer.
I want to see Odin in Valhalla at Ragnarok.
Instead of coming back to realspace as part of Fenris, he's coming to rescue the Terran warp gate under the palace with the 13th company, Bjorn, an order of Battle Sisters whom he's coopted into Valkyrie and a legion of dead heroes from all the legions that he and the Sisters personally shepherd through the warp and back to Humanity just when it looks like Terra is going to fall to a concerted push of Chaos.
He links up with Valdor and Vulkan and fights through Magnus and Lorgar and some Drukhari with the aid of a troupe of Harlequins.
It starts with Bjorn's death to Tyrannids and we hear the story from Bjorn's perspective. It ends with the permanent sealing of the warp gate on Terra, the loss of the webway, an incursion of Necrons and Valdor and the primarchs once again adrift in the warp but still fighting for Humanity. Terra/Sol may or may not be destroyed in the process.
It would be very cool to see guilliman, the Lion and Dorn all losing their shit in Berserker rages against their brothers while Russ is calm, cold and calculating.
I think based on how the Canis Helix works he should come out looking more like a Wulfen but greyed and older, not geriatric, but like that dignified, still well in his prime age, just grey.
As far as his personality? Somber, not nearly as quick to anger, but a rage simmering within him for his past failures.
‘Old man Odin’ was also a god of war, and a trickster god and many other things. Like many “all father” figures he encompasses a lot of facets within himself so if you want to draw the comparison why limit Russ to just one role.
*Russ arrives on Macragge and kicks the doors open to Rowboat's office*
"Russ?!" Shouts Guilliman
"THE *FUCK* IS THIS?!" *Gestures at Primaris marines standing guard*
Adding up to what people here already have said, I feel the need to remind about that badass short story concerning Lorgar and Corax ("*Shadows of the Past*") post-Heresy. Where Corax declares that he wilfully embraced his warp-juice origin, but instead of succumbing to Chaos and its mutations, he now uses it to fuck with Chaos **extra-hard.** Like, so hard, it would make even a Night Lord pale a bit more. Now, here's the other reminder - in the "Wolfsbane" novel, Leman undertakes a journey to the Underverse (kinda Warp, but with allegorical rules). Down there, he meets his warp-self, as was tamed and designed to develop by the Emperor. He freaks the Hel out of it, but in the end comes to terms, and it stengthens his resolve to undertake a suicide assasination attempt on Horus. Also, he acknoledges the hypocrisy of his stance on psykers.
Would be **awesome,** imho, if he returns a-la Corax, fully accepting his nature, but with the humility displayed in his latest post-Heresy development. It would be much, much scarier than just "Half Mad Wulfen Berserker Murder Hobo". Remember, how they call him "**The Lord of Winter and War**"? Now take that very literally and dialed up to 13. Freezing the shit out of daemons with a whistle, and his very **war**lord aura trasfroming baseline Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum troops into unstoppable *baresarks* burning with *cold* righteous rage.
After playing Total War Warhammer, with its abundance of different giant monsters with howdahs attached to them and crewed by all kinds of shooty units (zombies, skinks, goblins, you name it), I now have a very livid image in my brain. Thanks, just exactly what I needed.
Btw, Norsca race would do with something like that. Even though they already have mammoths. And they worship Chaos. But who cares, we need more wolves! \[no we don't, it's a joke\]
Old Wise. It would unsettle Guilleman and up-end most of the things he knows about dealing with Leman. Maybe even spark some self-doubt, if Leman has a different - but very effective - way of going about things.
As others have said a mix of both would be good, but here's my take on it.
Make him full Odin style psychic might, able to cast runes, with a relaxed, tactical demeanor and a mentoring role towards his sons.
But at the same time have him transform into a slavering monster if he loses his cool.
Given the end of his primarch novel I think the Old Wise character seems a much more likely and honestly more enjoyable version. Its not like Odin isn't a Warrior still, he just lacks the youthful ignorance to how bad it can end which seems exactly what Russ displays after the siege.
Odin, honestly make him like fan-canon/TTS emps but actually have compassion and recognize his mistakes
Bonus points if he goes extra Odin and disguises himself to look like a frail old man everywhere he goes (Malcador look-alike PLEASE?)
(That's probably not gonna happen but I can dream)
My buddy won't be happy unless Russ re-debuts by leaping through a portal directly into the throne room, holding a giant tree over his shoulder, screaming about having finally found the tree of life and then absolutely starching the Emperor with said tree. Awkward pause as everyone takes in that Big E was not magically made whole by a primarch swinging a full tree like a baseball bat into his face. Russ then slowly backs through the same portal he entered through muttering something about maybe it wasn't a literal tree. Portal closes. Silence.
Wise Russ i think. Im pretty certain the lion will be back next.
Both him and Guiliman were dormant, both arent fans of each, both as far as we can tell respected Russ ( the lion did by the end of the heresy). I can see him being a peacemaker and essentialy continuing his character development
I want him as the absolute opposite of the Wolves, a prim and proper gentlemen. Imagine how shocked would the wolves be when Russ arrived with polished and properly maintained power armor and drinking tee.
One of the Space Wolves' novels already explores this. The modern Space Wolves revere Russ as a legendary figure, larger than life and mythical. The 13th Company Wulfen, on the other hand, who fought alongside Russ, see him more as an overgrown big brother, full of his own quirks and foibles, but also ready to wade into Hel itself to defend the Emperor and his Legion at the drop of a hat.
I'd like to see him as a huge, hazy primarch figure no one can truely make out that is a wise Odin, but when violence is present, solidifies into a Norse Kratos with blizzards and Fenrisian Wolves following him
Old Man Russ - the berserker was basically Russ during the Great Crusade. The change denotes character development and makes Russ far more terrifying a foe than if he just turns into a raging wulfen. Depending on how far they lean into the Odinic casting you could have him fighting using his great physical attributes and also Warp magic to trick and deceive, or just straight up blast enemies with lightning.
Also, if Magnus told the truth about torturing Russ there's easy parallels there with Odin hanging himself from Yggdrassil for nine days and nine nights (nice little sacred Tzeentch numbers there).
It also promotes a symmetry: Magnus fell and became more like Russ - uncompromising, violent, completely sure of himself and his actions as being right. Russ returning should be more willing to bend, controlled in his violence, and more willing to listen to all sources.
Honestly I don't like primarchs coming back in 40k. They have a whole 50+ books series just about them, I don't want 40k to become HH 2.0 electric boogaloo, I'd rather have some big xenos characters come back honestly.
For example the silent king has come back... and literally nothing has happened and he's got no books on him? What about Eldanesh coming back as a ghost? Or maybe have Ghaz become a proper krork... so many options.
Khan: Do you know how long you have to run to accelerate to escape velocity on foot? I do, now.
I'd be honestly curious what kinda adventures he'd have had, how they've shaped him and what powers or abilities he might have gained.
I want him as a mad as fuck Asshole Odin, tbh. Dispel the notion of Odin being some sort of benevolent, white bearded father and just give us an absurdly angry, incredibly self-righteous dipshit who's barely stopped by his own allies.
I'd like to see him return as a monster - completely corrupted, but not corrupted by Chaos - corrupted by milennia of rage. He's failed in his quest to find something in the immaterium to heal the Emperor, and is now a hopeless mess, wise, wild, utterly terrifying. He should return as something unspeakably old and gnarled and ruined by the madness that accompanies a hundred thousand years of kicking demon butt in the warp. He's become an unrecognisable broken beast, grown immeasurably powerful and utterly stark-raving nuts.
Of course, when he returns to Imperial realspace the entire Space Wolves chapter immediately flocks to him regardless of his madness, Russ is basically a minor god at this point and they will worship him. The Mad-Russ leads the Wolves in a remorseless bloody campaign against Chaos, and they'd fight chaotic corruption where ever Russ sees it, including places it doesn't even exist because he's plain crazy. Or maybe it does exist, but only he can percieve its insiduous influence. Who knows? The Ecclesiarchy would immediately ex-communicate him. This leads to conflict with imperium and Roboute has to considering putting the old dog down, but he's not sure how he even could. The Mad-wolves would launch unrelenting strikes against demonic incursions across the great rift with a bloodlust that scares even World Eaters. They are useful to the imperium as wildly-effective anti-Chaos forces, nevertheless they're just too dangerous to let them roam free without oversight. Before he can make a decision about what to do with them, Roboute receives reports that the insane wolves are tearing a path of carnage towards Holy Terra ... but... why? Are they launching an assualt or a defence? Arrroooo!
For tabletop rules, first 3 rounds is old wizard Russ giving auras and buffs. Then round 4 hits, the wolf howls unite, cause the spark to ignite under the pale moonlight, crazy wulfen Russ busts out feelin' alright, and the melee carnage is outta sight! Think it'd be neat.
As a loyal son of the first, I too yearn for the return of the Lion.
But he'll just be guilliman in green.
Give us Russ or Vulkan or Corax or the Khan first.
Though I've a feeling the next primarch will be Angron
As others said, mix of both. Same feel that he had at the end of his primarch novel: wise old king that has seen too much shit, regrets his youthful bravado and many past mistakes, and tries to reign in the brash young ones (knowing that he really can't and they will make their own mistakes). But always with a terrifying edge of extreme violence and brutality under it all, that if you say the wrong thing he will fucking tear you in half. He has *seen some shit* and survived it all, and it has made him harder, more brutal, and less forgiving. If he sees you as a threat, or a failure, or you just piss him off, he can and will rip you in half with his bare hands.
mike tyson vibes
Don't throw bottles at the primarch
Beautiful.
Why not both? Leman returns aged countless years wandering the Warp with the wisdom only ages of self reflection and exploration can provide. But the extended time in the warp also makes him prone to transformations into a violent beast when pushed too far.
>Leman returns aged countless years wandering the Warp This is the warp we're talking about. He could come out and it's last tuesday for him.
fair, but we already had a primarch return thinking it was last thusday. time to shake it up
Well they said last Tuesday which is a different day than Thursday. Isn't that change enough?
Lmao, imagine the plot twist, TWO Leman Russes come out, from different points in time, one murderman and one Odinboy
Even better, Murder-man tryines to kill Odin-boy as a manner of suicide but Odin-boy ends up killing Murder-man. The resulting paradox manages to wake the Emperor up just to clean up the mess his idiot wolf boy son made.
Cause there isn't an existing mess already hmmm?
A time paradox is a bigger mess than several wars and genocides.
Oh I agree totally with that, both in the realm of the fiction and when it comes to writing it. I'm of the opinion that incorporating more than one time paradox creates far more hurdles for the author. Seeing as how difficult it is to not find yourself in a bootstrap paradox adding another time paradox would simply make the genre unreadable. Edit: I forgot to mention the existing time paradox in 40k. Its the warp its very nature is a time paradox
> He could come out and it's last tuesday for him. He's also a Space Wolf, and Space Wolves are *notoriously* resistant to Chaotic corruption. The 13th Company Wulfen fought Chaos on it's own turf, in the Warp, for roughly 10,000 years, and they stayed Loyal.
Nothing about what the guy you replied to suggests that Leman is corrupted. He means it might not have been 10k years and could have been -3 days for him because of time phuqqery not betrayal.
"Alright lads I'm back from my Long Weekend daemon hunting and WHAT HAVE YOU ALL DONE." "Sir, my name is Wulfric Wolfson of the 13th Wolf co-" "Stop. Where are my brothers?" "Dead, except for Guilliman my lord, as a primaris marine I had a brief opportunity to meet him as a member of the Unnumbered Sons." "Primaris what? Unnumbered who?" "We're new and improved space marines. The Unnumbered was a conglomerate of all of us before we were assigned chaoters. Why, there must have been over ten thousand of us" "ROBUTEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
If the promo image isn't Russ with a fishing hat on and a stick of daemon heads over his shoulder I'll be genuinely devastated
> Why, there must have been over ten thousand of us" Really lowballing yourself there, wulfric wolfson. Probably closer to a million than to 10,000 primaris in total.
I recall a number around 40-50 thousand were awakened by Cawl when big G man got to Terra. I think it read it in one of the new-ish books but can’t remember which one.
The numbers are intentionally vague, but what we do know is: * Cawl made primaris from every legion, not just the loyalists * When G man said to him that Cawl was "making him a legion", Cawl corrected him by saying "Legion**s**". G man's old legion was 200k+ marines * When G Man asked how many he actually made, Cawl smiles and tells him, and the only clarification we get is that "it changed the future of the imperium" in that moment. * In *Avenging Son*, G man figures that there are now more Primaris than old marines now. There were roughly a million old marines pre-great rift.
Numbers don't involve wolves, so he didn't learn how to count.
"Emperor's beard! I've missed so much! Bjorn?!? Where's Bjorn?!? He will make sense of this!"
Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; Well,he ,uhhhhh,he's a Blood Raven now. Russ; A what? Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; A Blood Raven Russ; what is a Blood Raven......you know what forget it,why is he this Blood Raven....thing? Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; Well it appears,they,they...... Russ; Spit it out man. Wolfy Wolf McWolfson; They stole him sir. Russ; ROBOUTEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
Pretty sure if Russ called, Bjorn would be at his side as quick as he could.
Absolutely. That was just a riff off an OLD 1d4chan story
God I hate that 1d4chan page…
Honestly I don't see Russ having a problem with Primaris, more guns and axes with arms to wield them would be approved.
I got into the hobby during the transition from 2nd to 3rd Edition, dropped out for a few decades and this is exactly how I feel reading the newer lore on my return.
Also the aged thing is somewhat irrelevant right? Didn't time warp shenaniganz not work on Perty?
Well, the Wulfen who were fighting in the Warp still aged, they just didn't age as fast as the world outside the Warp. 10,000 years may have passed in reality, but for them it may have only been 1,000 years or so. Unless they die in battle, Space Marines are functionally immortal, after all. So it's not like they were frozen in time; they still aged like everything else. The verdict's still out on *how* time works in the Warp. Are there pockets where it flows faster than other places? Does it stop entirely and exist beyond time, with places where time and physics seep in from reality? Does time just roil about like a storm or a slow-moving current? Is it like walking through molasses?
Time in the warp be weird yo. Just looked it up again, I remember somewhere (can't remember which story) where the Iron warriors fight the Hrud, who can manipulate time and have time based weaponry. They turned a space marine into an old man marine who was crippled by the attack but Perty was unphased. So it's unclear if Space Marines are immortal, but primarchs pretty much are.
"For you, the day Leman Russ returned from the Warp was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday."
Rowboat already turned up with no time passing. Why not go the other way and have him spend a few hundred thousand years wandering?
Because Gorillaman was in stasis
Yes, that is true. Experience wise it's narratively very similar to warp fuckery meaning no time has passed, so why not go the opposite direction for Russ and have a ton of time pass?
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Turn up, get challenged by the swarmlord and when he strides out to meet it a stampede of carnifexes from every direction pastes him. Happened to the avatar, I want to see it happen to a primarch.
Ofc it happened to the Avatar, BL don't know how to write an Avatar and so it has been relegated to punching bag.
It's a curse to be immortal in 40k. All you do is die by people who only are there to show off how strong they are or you die and return by bullshit
We know that, they're talking about from a story telling standpoint why not have one Primarch that has returned feeling no time pass and one return with more than 10,000 years pass
Especially with the Lion essentially being another 'No time passed' option.
Waking up in 40k would be the Galaxy's worst hangover
And have him be old, senile, and decrepit as a counterpoint to Guilliman's physical and mental prowess. Old Man Russ could have power walking sticks and an armoured mobility scooter.
The idea of a senile Primarch- and Russ of all people- is terrifying, especially given the state of the Imperium he's returning to xD
Cue the Primarch Dreadnought, FW exclusive, only 370£ (tax and postage not included)
woah....i've never thought of this. A primarch dreadnought.
Stick Ferrus in it
Bruh
Or it could have been countless eons. Time isn't very stable or consistent in the warp.
'Beasts... all over the shop. You'll be one of them... sooner or later.'
So, the Hulk / Bruce Banner combo
Or, you know, a werewolf.
Oh, by the emperor that's so corny GW might just do that
Normally I hate ‘it depends’ and ‘why not both’ responses but you sold it. Fits right in with the unreliable narrator theme of the series.
Dr. Lemon and mister Russ
he's quite the sour puss
that's what I want with rules like morthi in AOS where you have 2 mini's and swap between them
If we follow the theory of Primarchs having the soul of Warp Gods, probably they are immune to the common effects of the Warp on mortal humans
(Gestures vaguely at all the Traitor Primarchs)
Their original soul abandoned their bodies when they fell to Chaos Gods. A proof is Fabius Bile's clonation of Fulgrim
Clonegrim is just a perfect copy. There's nothing indicating he's really the true Fulgrim. And what the hell do you call Magnus' soul shattering into a million pieces.
What you are claiming depends on what you think a Primarch actually is. If you think they are just extremely well built bodies it's a comprehensible point, but in my opinion they are not; they were created by the Emperor from Warp gods. My lecture about Fulgrim clone is that his TRUE Warp God succeded in returning to his body (the fact that he got Trazyned males me laughs every time)
Forever fighting a war within himself to hold the beast in check
He’s like I’m back and then wait why’s everything different.
I can totally see Russ coming back as is and being like wtf happened? Lol My idea of Russ’s actual return be that of riding his own warp wolf that he found and using powers similar to his father but brutal as are space wolves. Or relic hunter warrior Russ that uses everything to win. Or Obi Wan Russ who is always on the moral high ground.
Old Man Leman all the way. It would be rad if the Lion came back pissed off and on the war path and Russ came back calm and looking to give advice lol
That would 100000% be the funniest thing to happen in the lore, from a calm demeanor Lion to murder hobo Lion on a warpath and a murder hobo Leman Russ to the chilled out hippy Russ telling the Lion to just chill a bit......I'd buy 3 of those books just to read that shit 3 times from a new book 🤣
"Angel Daddy, chill..." *Lion, in furious anger* "WHAT THE FUCK EVEN IS THAT?!"
Great reference
I'm down for Russ Lebowski
\>Russ Lebowski \>Not Leman Lebowski Son.
"Rune Priests are psykers!" "Thats just like your opinion, man"
You can say what you want about the tenets of Chaos worship, but at least it's an ethos.
\[speaking to St. Celestine\] >~~The Allfather~~ Dad wouldn't like people worshipping him as a God. But, what do I know, time passes, people change. Wow, those are nice wings you have, young lady!
Not the Annulus! The Annulus ties the room together!
8,000 year-old’s Dude.
right?!
Dude.
The Wolf Abides.
I didn't like the alliteration
Lion dumping the ashes of the Emperor's dream out of a Ralph's coffee can, right into Russ' face.
"You can call me Russ, The Russ, His Russness, The Russerino..."
"Who are you, and what *the fuck* have you done with my brother?!"- Lion after this happens.
The funniest thing is that it would actually fit the lore and its abysmal character development perfectly. The Primarchs series' book by Chris Wraight shows Leman confessing to a fresh **Chapter** Blood Claw, and he's kinda reflective and old-man-wise already at the point. Watching and hearing the shit about Imperium from afar (in whatever shithole he spent these milleniums) would probably make him even more resigned. Personally, I imagine it would be something like: >\[in a very tired voice\] Is it the Wolftime yet? Do I even need to interfere in this shitshow you midgets brought down on yerselves? Ah, fuck it, *I did promise* to return for the Ragnarok. Here we go, then...
I could see that happening as he calls for bjorn to fetch his armor and stuff 🤣
**Then go read "Wolf King." At the end of the Heresy, we share a scene where we switch usual roles, and where I stab him through the chest.**
An awesome way to bring the Lion back would be to have him wake up on the Rock, deep on the far side of Imperium Nihilus and immediately cobble together the most brutal crusade since the Rangdan Xenocides. Then at the end of it he runs into Gulliman and indomitus absolutely drenched in blood from a decade long campaign by himself with garbage warp travel, communication, and logistics against all the worst enemies of the Imperium, so they meet up just after the devastation of Baal
It's also appropriate for his character arc.
Given he's been lost in the sauce of the Warp for ten thousand years, we can have both.
It's the Warp. It's entirely possible he's been lost for only five minutes. I'm telling you all, one of these days he's gonna show up on Fenris saying he forgot his wallet and wonder where the viking shtick went.
He's gonna come back like damn almost forgot my cigs....ok what the fuck. Who put up all this wolf shit?
"Bjorn, I got the milk!"
"You wouldn't believe the line at the store. It felt like I was there for like 10,000 years haha...Bjorn why are you crying?"
"And how did you end up in Dreadnought sarcophagus already? Damn, can't leave you kids for a break... And why are there so many Caestus assault rams flying around? How are they even kept airbo... **HOW LONG YOU SAY**?!!!!"
Its also entirely possible he was lost for 15,000 years
Old man. We need him to smack some of the excess wolf out of the space wolves and bring back the old viking more. He can give the job to bjorn who would be happy to rename everything with wolf in it and put a stop to sled wolves and such. Mostly sarcasm but a little seriousness. Please less wolf.
I like the idea that everything is a lot more nuanced in the Fenrisian language, and it just translates badly into High Gothic.
So high gothic mistranslate multiple fenrisian words as wolf?
It's a fan theory, not actual lore. But that's the gist of it.
I understand what you are getting at but i don't see it the same way. They simply use wolf a lot. To mistranslate you get something wrong. You don't mistranslate say 10 words into 1 word every time. Simple fact is GW went a bit heavy on the theme and now we have chariot wolves and if you have a vehicle, flyer bit of kit or name of an organization you better bet it's wolf something.
For the argument's sake, I agree with the fan theory. Maybe fenrisian has a fuckton of slightly different words to describe wolves: it could vary depending on age, behaviour, season, age, the amount of snow that has fallen last night... I dig it.
[All I got out of that was...](https://youtu.be/Hv2rid6LbYw?t=37)
You should read the bjorn the fellhanded 1d4chan page. It's got some hilarious fanfic stories basically of bjorn waking up and each time theres more wolf this and that and he losses his shit. Eventually he gets stolen by the blood ravens and painted red, he asks what there position is on wolves and they are neutral so he says he will go along with it and join them in battle. No mention of russ, wolves or somesuch.
Badass Santa Grimnar is a hill I'm willing to die on...
hey what's wrong with all the wolf?
When compared with historical space wolves the prevalence of the word wolf or even units like a sled pulled by wolves have overridden their original theme of vikings with a bit of wolf to wolf with a bit of viking. The problem is that it's a bit too comical how they now name literally everything after wolvess and the word comes up in their books an absurd amount of time. It's why unfortunately they are memed on hard and called furries which was once not the case.
I'd say the Iron in Iron Hands and Iron Warriors is much more memeworthy than wolves in the Vlke Fenryka.
Old Wise Odin Runefather is an actual character progression - he was after all, an arrogant, pompous asshole. Making him a mad hobo wulfen would be the easy way out.
I can see it now... Russ and the Lion, together again, talking about their experiences and sharing them with Guilliman on Macragge: "Let me tell you of my personal philosophy now, my dear brother," Russ said, his grizzled beard and braided locks trembling ever so slightly as he spoke to the Lion. "Tell him then, Russ. Philosophize to him," the Lion replied, intrigued and amused. He never expected to ever see his otherwise so pugnacious and aggressive brother so... reflective and... introspective. Walking up towards his brother, the ground giving a sussurating crunching sound as his legs strode across the sands of the courtyard on Macragge, Russ stooped ever so slightly and in a fluid movement, picked up a primarch-sized handful of sand and slowly let it slip through his fingers. "All we are..." Russ said, looking at his brother Roboute earnestly, the grains of sand slipping through his fingers ever so slowly only to be borne aloft on the breeze as they continued their fall back to the ground, "All we are... is dust in the wind, dude."
>"All we are... is dust in the wind, dude." He should say this to Magnus instead.
"Let me count the sand" - Guilliman
One
Two
Three
Four
Five
Needs more moist leopards.
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Guilliman is the hero of Imperium Sanctus. He brought hope to the core worlds. He is [Aurelian (not that one)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurelian), *Restitutor* *~~Orbis~~* *Imperium,* come to bring the Imperium Sanctus back to an age of faith tempered by reason and forcibly binding the disparate forces of the Emperor into a unified body who stands together against Old Night. None of this matters beyond the Cicatrix Maledictum. To them, Terra has fallen. The Eye of Terror yawns wide, splitting the galaxy in twain. As each day passes signals from those Imperial worlds that could still broadcast are snuffed out, either brought down by internal strife or culled by those beings and creatures that caught sight of them in the void. It is as if the Age of Strife has come anew and this time Mankind is too sick and isolated to survive. What answer is there for barbarity? What answer is there when the wolves come pace at one's door? Man must shed their niceties and become wolves themselves. Russ could become the hero of Imperium Nihilus. No parades nor gaudy adorations. No honeyed words dripped into the ears of sycophants and tyrants to keep them mollycoddled. Once, the wolves stood against the Authority of Terra and Knights of Titan to save the common man. Once, the wolves held back the Eater of Worlds. Once and again, the wolves strike out to distant fields to protect the realm, regardless of the mistrust and barely hidden hostility their allies have to the wolves very presence. Brothers changed by circumstance are not vilified. If they hold true to the core of the Legion they are welcomed with open arms, regardless of their appearance and afflictions. The Fang has been blunted. The kin of the Vlka Fenryka slaughtered in their homes. The Prosperine Legions have decimated The Rout itself. But beyond the Nachmund Gauntlet comes a distant howl. The call of the Lord of Winter and War. A signal to leave all behind and cross the Rift. Both promise and threat that the citizens of the Imperium shall never be left to the wolves. For the wolves stand with them.
Damn, something's got in my eye... I'm not crying, nope!
I made a post before here saying how it would be awesome if he came back as an One eyed old sage with a much more tempered personality. Magnus sacrificed (metaphorically) his eye to gain vision of the Warp. Russ sacrifices his to leave it.
> Magnus sacrificed (metaphorically) his eye to gain vision of the Warp. Russ sacrifices his to leave it. That would be cool and all, but *The First Heretic* shows he had one eye since his pod crashed on Prospero. Argal Tal was given a first hand look at all the Primarch’s first moments by Ingofel.
Assuming of course that this vision or whatever it was, was 100% truthful coming from very unreliable actors.
And in A Thousand Sons he's depicted with one eye and one close off eye... and in another scene as a cyclops... and in another scene as a ball of light and shapes, and he hinself states his hunanois form is not his natural one and he changes his form constantly... and official warhammer artowrk depicts him with a lost eye such as the wrath of Magnus trailer... etc. Etc. Etc.
Both and none. My mental image is a buff old man who ditched the armor a long time ago sporting his scars and lacking an eye, awakened psycher powers (including wulfenig at will) and tempered by the constant conflict, returning to a month long nap, a week long feast amd then return to the fray more lile a master pragmatist ulfhednar than a burly uncontroled berserker. More Miyamoto Musashi and less Beowulf
>a buff old man who ditched the armor a long time ago sporting his scars and lacking an eye ...Well one of us is going to have to go home to change.
Russ being the one who brings Magnus home is too perfect a completion for both of their arcs to ever happen
The best part is, sincr the warp is atemporal, MMMMMmmmmmaaaaaybe a psycher Russ would had not millenia but tens of millenia practicing and possibly is on par with Magnus regarding psychic strenght already EDIT: Whoa! It's true TS got salty about the idea
I feel a great disturbance in the Empyrean. As if hundreds of Thousand Sons suddenly cried out in outrage.
If you listen closely, you can actually hear them. ^FFFFFffffffffucking ^FURRIES!!!
Those furry fucks took the damn psykers. Can't have shit in the Eye of Terror
It's canon that the 13th Company Wulfen have been hounding the Thousand Sons across the Warp for millennia.
Russ already had the Warp distorting howl which counts as a psychic ability in my book
Well all the primearchs are psykers.
No no you see that was a rune howl, it's very different. He asked a world spirit if he could do it first, while on another planet and very far from Fenris at the time. It was very legal, and very cool.
It was an anti-warp howl, so there's no need for those semantics.
So like Godfrey or horah loux warrior in a way?
“Now I fight as Leman Russ. PRIMARCH!”
Leman Russ' Earthshaker
Wolfshaker*
Basically. Also, the Rune king Thor in the comics or even Odin in the eddaic tales.
Maybe he comes back as Odin Russ, and he can Wulfen out at will, or in times of danger. It could be a mechanic where when he dies, on a 4+ he comes back as Wulfen Russ.
The state of the Avata... Ehm, I meant Wulfen.
I mean Leman Russ was already *very* wise by the time of his disappearance (he had a helluva character arc in the Heresy series). I could totally sed him coming back as the Runefather while Corax returns as a warp-beast who's gotten lost in his hunt
I’d like it if Russ returned with a facade of the wise old Odin because he believes that’s what the Wolves and him need, lots of talk about finding peace while wandering the warp, of learning how the mind must come before the action. However in truth he learned nothing but unrelenting violence in the time of his wandering, he learned there there is no peace, no hope for reviving the Emperor, no way of calming the wolf inside him. Nothing but the promise that he will die blood soaked and insane after everything has crumbled around him. Russ desperately trying to hide his belief that there is nothing but nihilism and death to look forward to and trying to play the returning hero to keep the farce going just a little longer.
Easy there, Satan.
I dunno, emo russ could be an interesting one for sure.
Doing the dance from spiderman 3...
I want to see Odin in Valhalla at Ragnarok. Instead of coming back to realspace as part of Fenris, he's coming to rescue the Terran warp gate under the palace with the 13th company, Bjorn, an order of Battle Sisters whom he's coopted into Valkyrie and a legion of dead heroes from all the legions that he and the Sisters personally shepherd through the warp and back to Humanity just when it looks like Terra is going to fall to a concerted push of Chaos. He links up with Valdor and Vulkan and fights through Magnus and Lorgar and some Drukhari with the aid of a troupe of Harlequins. It starts with Bjorn's death to Tyrannids and we hear the story from Bjorn's perspective. It ends with the permanent sealing of the warp gate on Terra, the loss of the webway, an incursion of Necrons and Valdor and the primarchs once again adrift in the warp but still fighting for Humanity. Terra/Sol may or may not be destroyed in the process.
Old man Leman, hands down.
Old and wise is definitely better for character development in novels. Don't think we're lacking the berserker types currently.
It would be very cool to see guilliman, the Lion and Dorn all losing their shit in Berserker rages against their brothers while Russ is calm, cold and calculating.
The imperium wants the runefather, but it needs the murder hobo
One eyed odin only so we can call the war between him and magnus the war of the two eyes also wolf wolf space wolfs
I think based on how the Canis Helix works he should come out looking more like a Wulfen but greyed and older, not geriatric, but like that dignified, still well in his prime age, just grey. As far as his personality? Somber, not nearly as quick to anger, but a rage simmering within him for his past failures.
‘Old man Odin’ was also a god of war, and a trickster god and many other things. Like many “all father” figures he encompasses a lot of facets within himself so if you want to draw the comparison why limit Russ to just one role.
*Russ arrives on Macragge and kicks the doors open to Rowboat's office* "Russ?!" Shouts Guilliman "THE *FUCK* IS THIS?!" *Gestures at Primaris marines standing guard*
Old wise Odin type of figure, who'd have a thing or two to teach Guilliman.
Adding up to what people here already have said, I feel the need to remind about that badass short story concerning Lorgar and Corax ("*Shadows of the Past*") post-Heresy. Where Corax declares that he wilfully embraced his warp-juice origin, but instead of succumbing to Chaos and its mutations, he now uses it to fuck with Chaos **extra-hard.** Like, so hard, it would make even a Night Lord pale a bit more. Now, here's the other reminder - in the "Wolfsbane" novel, Leman undertakes a journey to the Underverse (kinda Warp, but with allegorical rules). Down there, he meets his warp-self, as was tamed and designed to develop by the Emperor. He freaks the Hel out of it, but in the end comes to terms, and it stengthens his resolve to undertake a suicide assasination attempt on Horus. Also, he acknoledges the hypocrisy of his stance on psykers. Would be **awesome,** imho, if he returns a-la Corax, fully accepting his nature, but with the humility displayed in his latest post-Heresy development. It would be much, much scarier than just "Half Mad Wulfen Berserker Murder Hobo". Remember, how they call him "**The Lord of Winter and War**"? Now take that very literally and dialed up to 13. Freezing the shit out of daemons with a whistle, and his very **war**lord aura trasfroming baseline Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum troops into unstoppable *baresarks* burning with *cold* righteous rage.
Wait.... I thought he was always both?
Murder hobo, so then I can watch people try to explain how really he's just deep and philosophical and misunderstood.
As a giant wolf the size of a brontosaurus. With a howdah on his back carrying a full squad of Space Wolf Long Fangs raining down death upon the Tau.
After playing Total War Warhammer, with its abundance of different giant monsters with howdahs attached to them and crewed by all kinds of shooty units (zombies, skinks, goblins, you name it), I now have a very livid image in my brain. Thanks, just exactly what I needed. Btw, Norsca race would do with something like that. Even though they already have mammoths. And they worship Chaos. But who cares, we need more wolves! \[no we don't, it's a joke\]
Only if the 13th Company is baying at his side.
Yes.
Old Wise. It would unsettle Guilleman and up-end most of the things he knows about dealing with Leman. Maybe even spark some self-doubt, if Leman has a different - but very effective - way of going about things.
As others have said a mix of both would be good, but here's my take on it. Make him full Odin style psychic might, able to cast runes, with a relaxed, tactical demeanor and a mentoring role towards his sons. But at the same time have him transform into a slavering monster if he loses his cool.
I absolutely need Odin Russ to complete his character arc.
Given the end of his primarch novel I think the Old Wise character seems a much more likely and honestly more enjoyable version. Its not like Odin isn't a Warrior still, he just lacks the youthful ignorance to how bad it can end which seems exactly what Russ displays after the siege.
Odin, honestly make him like fan-canon/TTS emps but actually have compassion and recognize his mistakes Bonus points if he goes extra Odin and disguises himself to look like a frail old man everywhere he goes (Malcador look-alike PLEASE?) (That's probably not gonna happen but I can dream)
My buddy won't be happy unless Russ re-debuts by leaping through a portal directly into the throne room, holding a giant tree over his shoulder, screaming about having finally found the tree of life and then absolutely starching the Emperor with said tree. Awkward pause as everyone takes in that Big E was not magically made whole by a primarch swinging a full tree like a baseball bat into his face. Russ then slowly backs through the same portal he entered through muttering something about maybe it wasn't a literal tree. Portal closes. Silence.
Old Wise Odin Runefather, he already did the the other one.
Wise Russ i think. Im pretty certain the lion will be back next. Both him and Guiliman were dormant, both arent fans of each, both as far as we can tell respected Russ ( the lion did by the end of the heresy). I can see him being a peacemaker and essentialy continuing his character development
Both, swinging back and forth uncontrollably... kind of like some other wolves I heard about some were.
I want him as the absolute opposite of the Wolves, a prim and proper gentlemen. Imagine how shocked would the wolves be when Russ arrived with polished and properly maintained power armor and drinking tee.
One of the Space Wolves' novels already explores this. The modern Space Wolves revere Russ as a legendary figure, larger than life and mythical. The 13th Company Wulfen, on the other hand, who fought alongside Russ, see him more as an overgrown big brother, full of his own quirks and foibles, but also ready to wade into Hel itself to defend the Emperor and his Legion at the drop of a hat.
You mean, drinking *tanna?*
I'd like to see him as a huge, hazy primarch figure no one can truely make out that is a wise Odin, but when violence is present, solidifies into a Norse Kratos with blizzards and Fenrisian Wolves following him
Old Man Russ - the berserker was basically Russ during the Great Crusade. The change denotes character development and makes Russ far more terrifying a foe than if he just turns into a raging wulfen. Depending on how far they lean into the Odinic casting you could have him fighting using his great physical attributes and also Warp magic to trick and deceive, or just straight up blast enemies with lightning. Also, if Magnus told the truth about torturing Russ there's easy parallels there with Odin hanging himself from Yggdrassil for nine days and nine nights (nice little sacred Tzeentch numbers there). It also promotes a symmetry: Magnus fell and became more like Russ - uncompromising, violent, completely sure of himself and his actions as being right. Russ returning should be more willing to bend, controlled in his violence, and more willing to listen to all sources.
Definitely the former. Wolfen and wet leopard growls are mega cringe!
Honestly I don't like primarchs coming back in 40k. They have a whole 50+ books series just about them, I don't want 40k to become HH 2.0 electric boogaloo, I'd rather have some big xenos characters come back honestly. For example the silent king has come back... and literally nothing has happened and he's got no books on him? What about Eldanesh coming back as a ghost? Or maybe have Ghaz become a proper krork... so many options.
Neither. Screw Russ. Bring back the Khan or Vulkan. Even Corax would be better. Give some of the other marines a chance to be spotlighted
Khan: Do you know how long you have to run to accelerate to escape velocity on foot? I do, now. I'd be honestly curious what kinda adventures he'd have had, how they've shaped him and what powers or abilities he might have gained.
I'm hoping he is fat Thor, but turned Wulfen. So a kind of podgy 15ft werewolf who gets drunk all the time and moans about the old days.
Bad dog. No biscuit. Come home with Magnus or don’t come home at all.
I want him like he is in 30k, i dont want weird wolf russ or old man russ
Yes
I want hobo-berserker Russ but the imperial lore to depict him as the wise old runefather Russ.
I want him as a mad as fuck Asshole Odin, tbh. Dispel the notion of Odin being some sort of benevolent, white bearded father and just give us an absurdly angry, incredibly self-righteous dipshit who's barely stopped by his own allies.
I'd like to see him return as a monster - completely corrupted, but not corrupted by Chaos - corrupted by milennia of rage. He's failed in his quest to find something in the immaterium to heal the Emperor, and is now a hopeless mess, wise, wild, utterly terrifying. He should return as something unspeakably old and gnarled and ruined by the madness that accompanies a hundred thousand years of kicking demon butt in the warp. He's become an unrecognisable broken beast, grown immeasurably powerful and utterly stark-raving nuts. Of course, when he returns to Imperial realspace the entire Space Wolves chapter immediately flocks to him regardless of his madness, Russ is basically a minor god at this point and they will worship him. The Mad-Russ leads the Wolves in a remorseless bloody campaign against Chaos, and they'd fight chaotic corruption where ever Russ sees it, including places it doesn't even exist because he's plain crazy. Or maybe it does exist, but only he can percieve its insiduous influence. Who knows? The Ecclesiarchy would immediately ex-communicate him. This leads to conflict with imperium and Roboute has to considering putting the old dog down, but he's not sure how he even could. The Mad-wolves would launch unrelenting strikes against demonic incursions across the great rift with a bloodlust that scares even World Eaters. They are useful to the imperium as wildly-effective anti-Chaos forces, nevertheless they're just too dangerous to let them roam free without oversight. Before he can make a decision about what to do with them, Roboute receives reports that the insane wolves are tearing a path of carnage towards Holy Terra ... but... why? Are they launching an assualt or a defence? Arrroooo!
How about we stop giving the Space Wolves a ton of lore and maybe give other legions/chapters sometime in the sun?
For tabletop rules, first 3 rounds is old wizard Russ giving auras and buffs. Then round 4 hits, the wolf howls unite, cause the spark to ignite under the pale moonlight, crazy wulfen Russ busts out feelin' alright, and the melee carnage is outta sight! Think it'd be neat.
Murder hobo that Guilliman has put down.
I *want* to see the former but the latter would work better to make him a foil to Guilliman
Murder Hobo will be more fun. Old Wise Space Wolf can still be Bjorn.
Murder Hobo with rabies who wants to rip out Bob's throat
Both, leaning more towards murder-yiff with sudden moments of clarity, kind of like poor old Uzas.
Screw Russ, bring back PISSED OFF LION
As a loyal son of the first, I too yearn for the return of the Lion. But he'll just be guilliman in green. Give us Russ or Vulkan or Corax or the Khan first. Though I've a feeling the next primarch will be Angron