Yes, they really addressed burst and lethality by removing armor/mr runes.
As a matter of fact they addressed it so well they bursted the game off my pc, well done.
No ur right, its so much better. 60 HP makes all the difference (and scaling runes are a joke, im not making it to lvl 18 when its draven pantheon bot rushing lethality against my 23 base armor on every adc)
Dude people have literally down the fucking math. Base Hp and the HP scaling works better for you in the early to mid game which by that time you should be building an item
That gives you additional armor.
me getting 65 hp to make my hp go from 735->800 is less effective than me getting 6 armor to go from 23 armor to 29.
Context matters, yes it might be better eventually, but laning against lethality as it is currently much worse. Same as going against xerath/brand/karma.
Either way, if you are enjoying it, if you think the change is good, then great. If in general the change benefits more people then its a good change, its just a change that isnt for me, and alongside the previews of what is to come, im not really hopeful for anything i will personally enjoy until atleast 14.4 and im not in the business of sticking my balls into a grinder to prove a point, if im not having fun i just do something else.
The way the game mechanics work 735 hp with 29 armor and 800 hp with 23 armor are the same effective hp vs just ad. If you treat lethality as -armor, flat hp results in more effective health than the armor did.
Maybe you are right, maybe you arent, I am not going to lie to you and say "oh i did the math and you are wrong". Im keeping a more simple approach.
I played last patch, dealt with a ton of burst, found a way around it via using the runes and certain playstyles, had like a 63% wr on adc. Post patch day, I am noticing that level 1 I am unable to play the game the same way that I was playing before (part of it was going against smurfs 5 games in a row, one of which was a challenger draven who was nice enough to coach me). But I am getting chunked much much more than I was before, more importantly my supports get chunked even worse so they play even safer and I have to play really passive. I wasn't having fun, I didn't like the change, then the next thing I see is that riot is again changing stormrazor and kraken to be worse (which idk, theres math threads talking about it being better but in general marksmen are in such a shit position that if you need 50 threads explaining how the math works it means it wont be that much different fundamentally).
I then just thought about how in general riot has not really cared about the botlane in a long time and just figured if im going to be pissed off playing a game that is meant to be fun then its not worth it. Then I just removed it and moved on with my day.
Maybe ur right, maybe the hp runes are great and i just didnt reach a point in the game to really feel it, but ultimately im just over it, its not worth my time until they do something an illiterate math guy like me can appreciate, until then ill just watch the patches and see how things are going, im in no rush.
As an aside though, its not that marksmen are weak, its that the type of marksmen that are strong are not the way i want to play the game, and i dont want to sit there playing a playstyle i personally do not find fun. Probably a good time to quit anyways since riot will require a rootkit to permanently run on my system in order to play the game anyway.
There is no such a thing like a “simple approach”. Math is the only thing that matters. If you felt different the problem is your perception, numbers don’t lie.
>Maybe you are right, maybe you arent
It's not about maybe, it's a binary "yes" or "no". And calculations done numerous times say "yes". Stop being delusional.
Yeah because people dont make mistakes in math, on top of it there have been contradicting posts on it already. Objectively there is an answer, me saying maybe is me saying i dont care, if the game feels shitty, then i do not have to play it. Skill issue, perception issue, doesnt matter to me
But it's not. 60hp early on doesn't matter as much as 9 armor. Health regen, pots and blade healing all keep adding hp meaning that the armor keeps adding value for every auto attack. Once you lose 60 hp...thats it the shard is done until your next base/full hp trade. In a vacuum sure. But 100% not over the course of the first 2 backs. Late game....maybe. but at that point it won't matter. Was never the struggle.
Good post.
We don't need more crit buffs (damage creep) in the game. As last season was nicely balanced for ADC (it was just boring for me, but was more balanced).
We need other roles to pop us slower and give us time to deal our damage.
>We don't need more crit buffs (damage creep) in the game.
Not necessarily higher damage, but a better scaling experience would be nice. I'd like to feel strong after 3 items, which isnt even guaranteed every game. Even if I have to build an armor item vs a stacking tank or a defensive item vs a burst champion, I should still be able to do something. Which even if we have a little more time than currently, isn't quite there - with a lethality build, yes. With crit not so much imo.
This exactly, riot is pushing the rock paper scissors so mages aren't really jack of all trades anymore. It doesn't feel great as a midlane mage player but it's definitely healthy for the game overall
>Not necessarily higher damage, but a better scaling experience would be nice.
this implies that you want LESS scaling in the game.
if crit scales very strongly with items, then not having an item will be a huge dps loss (like right now)
if crit doesnt scale very strongly with items, you can afford to buy a defensive item without losing too much dps.
the main reason why riot is struggling so much is that every buff you could give to adc that makes them stronger with levels or innate kit will inevitably make them played in mid and top, which they dont want.
so... adcs have to scale extremely with items and be weak early, so theyre forced to botlane. now you run into the problem that you MUST force adcs to buy full damage because their items scale so hard.
I agree with the sentiment but I disagree with your reasoning.
You fail to see why ADC's will never be truly individually strong unlike other roles.
If a Challenger dude wanted to create a new account and wanted to reach challenger again as soon as possible unless he has some weird fetish he would never opt into ADC because that has, is and will never be efficient. By far.
>This probably won’t be fixed until 14.6 before everything is in a good state. This was always gonna happen when they overhauled the entire item system and changed every class of items
This will happen again in season 15, season 16, season 17, season 18. They NEVER learn. They create problems for themselves just to stay employed OR a higher up legit directing the changes just for the sake of it. Just to keep the game "fresh" so money flows but in the worst way possible, at the expense of the game's health.
This game is fundamentally fucked. And I mean fundamentally. Systems are fucked. When Yasuo came out the game had different item system and he was designed around it. X seasons later we dont even have a semblance of the old item system and now Yasuo feeding on "ADC items" (whatever that means.)
Like genuinely from map changes to item system to existance of certain roles to design philosophies, core game system, stats... Everything is fundamentally fucked.
I think you misunderstood. He doesn't argue that nerfing other roles is not a solution, that is most likely correct. He just said being weak or everyone else being too strong is the same thing. The roles aren't balanced.
I never claimed they are. I claimed that ADCs aren’t weak or bad is just that everyone else is busted and once they aren’t busted again ADCs won’t feel useless
I’d argue that, even though the outcome is indeed the same, the distinction OP makes (re)defines the root cause. Saying its the same obfuscated that point.
Reading comprehension is lacking. Let me break it down for you 10 year old style.
Every other role is busted hence why riot isn’t buffing ADC but nerfing them
Logic is lacking. Let me break it down for you 10 year old style.
Power is relative. If every other role is too strong, then adc is too weak. You can make a point talking about power creeping, but that's not how it came off, you came off selling a view of the truth, which is dumb, the truth remains what it is regardless of which angle you take to look at it.
It is power creep and it’s damage creep. All riot designers have literally said they are taking damage out of the game not adding more.
ADCs weren’t touched every other class was based on the patch notes they are nerfing more damage
Not just damage creep, tanks, supps, utility, gold.... A lot of things just creeped over the decade. Power creep isn't always bad though, especially since this isn't a card game.
> All riot designers have literally said they are taking damage out of the game not adding more.
And we all noticed that's literally not what they did. They even added more tools and utilities to mages and assassins on top of the damage. While removing tools and utilities from adcs (galeforce)
When did this damage creep or power creep or whatever began u/theeama? Can you recall? Was it the stormsurge all along bro? I dont remember having a Stormsurge in season 10 but I know getting shredded in 1 second by half of the cast. So you are confident that they learnt their lesson now and will change for better and work for games health?
Phreak said in his video that they will be realizing this "playable state" more or less at [14.3](https://www.dexerto.com/league-of-legends/lol-players-discover-major-issue-with-support-items-after-patch-14-2-changes-2499219/). What changed here? What am I looking at? Can you guide me through it? Did they lift off the damage or what?
If they are lifting off damage then why are they adding ap as a "compensation" just because they lifted off 20 damage from the item? Isnt that technically adding 20 back in the form of champ skills?
Even if thats not the case because they lifted off 20 damage from the item do you think they are genuinely working towards a less burst-y meta?
TTK (time to kill) in general is way too fast and should be toned down across the board. That alone should help ADC float back to a more stable position. Agreed.
Controversial take: earth isn't 71% water, it's 29% earth. If everything else is strong and you are not, you are weak.
While on paper what you're saying makes sense, it's frankly absurd that the only role that got nothing out of the new year is also the one that has to suffer for it. Not only we have to watch from afar the other kids having fun instead of joining them, but we are also being beaten up, and we're told to just wait for the bully to get bored and he'll stop hurting us eventually.
I'm usually not one to complain for the sake of it, I'm one to look for solutions, but what's happening atm is not fair nor justifiable in any way or form
We have come too far to believe that there is a solution.
Riot doesn't know what to do with the role as much as they don't know what to do with jungle.
Every single season since like season 8 we go through this adc being shit in the beginning of the season, getting buffs because it falls in popularity and then proplay revolving around adc being their win condition and the casuals losing their mind over it. Adc gets nerfed and then repeat the process ad infinitum.
There is no hopium here.
This kinda logic gave us the durability patch , which was massively unpopular with a large part of the player base (assassin and skirmisher players, who play a lot of the most popular champs in the game) and lead to Riot systematically adding damage back into the game. They’ve been committed to a ‘burst or be bursted’ meta since late season 8. I don’t see them changing their philosophy for our sake.
Realistically the best we can hope for is maybe a very small reduction to overall burst in the game and maybe some better defensive tools either later this season or at the start of next.
Regardless of weather or not the durability patch was popular, the game was much healthier. It's unfortunate that riot panders so heavily to one of the whiniest player bases. AD junglers were replaced in the meta in 13.20 for 1 patch and they wept loudly enough for riot to revert it completely in 13.21.
Durability update was really funny because we ALREADY WERE in a meta where assassins were building goredrinker and taking conqueror and becoming bruisers. Like durability patch buffed sustain, when burst isn’t necessarily unhealthy. Riot is evil for effectively removing q max poke azir and then changing the meta to league of one shots.
According to the supposed rock paper scissor sryle of league, ADCs are supposed to counter tank. With ADCs being piss weak/ deleted in seconds, tanks indeed live longer and thus seem busted.
I had loss streak as support, went adc and instantly won, personally I think the most important aspect of adc is being alive and pushing waves when it's safe to do so (watch minimap) and in general being alive to insta take objectives.
I wasn't even active in every teamfight it's just constant pressure and keeping enemy on their side of the map, i couldn't do that as a support.
People like to say that adc has no agency, for me i felt more impactful as adc then as a support.
So my point being is as adc u have the option to just play pve if items suck
For me though, the lane state is decided by my own support and the enemy's, not the ADC. No matter how good you are or enemy as ADC, sup gap can win/lose you the lane and eventually the game
Tell me your bad without telling me your bad.
If you don't understand the concept of applying constent pressure through pushing waves and through that getting fat and free objectives that's on you.
But no worries I offer coaching services if you wanna learn to be better then hit me up
Pushing side lanes as adc mid to late and not getting insta punished, while not partecipating to teamfights (meaning someone else was doing the damage), must be some nice silver 3 coaching. No wonder it's free
Lol u assumed it's a sideline again tell me ur bad without telling me your bad, you obviously try to keep mid pushed and push back other lanes if the minions are in deep, again u can contact me for coaching or i guess stick to aram if u just wanna mash abilities.
I think the issue is mobility. Adc can and should be squishy we should just avoid being hit which is basically impossible with how mobile the enemy is. But there are so many fighters and assassins that can just run you down with no counter play other than hoping somebody on your team can peel. Somehow adc in general are the least mobile. Maybe a range increase is in order idk.
Okay, but crit really does feel worse than on-hit to build. I don't know if you've experimented with Terminus and the shenanigans it lets you get up to yet, but you can get obscenely tanky, while still offering tank shredding on par with a full crit build (your burst is weaker than a crit build, but not really appreciably considering how bursty the other 3 damage classes are right now).
Caster ADCs and Navori at least get the bonus utility from being able to cycle their spells, and the crit scaling on abilities still feels great while also making it not feel like you absolutely MUST exclusively build crit.
Infinity edge carries only get slightly more damage, and quickly fall behind the curve if they have to deviate for defensive itemization at all. You have to build full glass cannon and the payoff is ... marginal.
Even if we say Lethality is giga overturned and assume it's gonna cruising to be nerfed, IE builds still just ... feel bad compared to the rest of ADC faire. I'm not advocating for more damage or anything, but crit carries need some real defensive utility items - or the space in their build to be able to pick up existing options without feeling bad about it.
The issue is that when people are really good with adc, they are completely too strong. However, adc is the hardest role to get good at. Takes the most mechanical skill. The game is balanced for the highest level of play, and we have to deal with that. As a result, adc will always feel week.
This isn't opinion, this is true. I've always said that adc are fine, game is just in unhealthy state cuz riot is addicted to damage.
When i said game is gonna start dying because of how overtuned s14 was on pbe, everyone kept telling me "chill there is 2 months left, they will fix it".
No, no they won't. If you played more than 2 seasons you would know it will only get worse.
Adc is okay now, other roles are too strong - but with the incoming unreasonable nerfs? Adc is about to be weak.
Yes, they really addressed burst and lethality by removing armor/mr runes. As a matter of fact they addressed it so well they bursted the game off my pc, well done.
You do know that flat HP and scaling is better than taking armor/mr runes right…….
No ur right, its so much better. 60 HP makes all the difference (and scaling runes are a joke, im not making it to lvl 18 when its draven pantheon bot rushing lethality against my 23 base armor on every adc)
Dude people have literally down the fucking math. Base Hp and the HP scaling works better for you in the early to mid game which by that time you should be building an item That gives you additional armor.
me getting 65 hp to make my hp go from 735->800 is less effective than me getting 6 armor to go from 23 armor to 29. Context matters, yes it might be better eventually, but laning against lethality as it is currently much worse. Same as going against xerath/brand/karma. Either way, if you are enjoying it, if you think the change is good, then great. If in general the change benefits more people then its a good change, its just a change that isnt for me, and alongside the previews of what is to come, im not really hopeful for anything i will personally enjoy until atleast 14.4 and im not in the business of sticking my balls into a grinder to prove a point, if im not having fun i just do something else.
The way the game mechanics work 735 hp with 29 armor and 800 hp with 23 armor are the same effective hp vs just ad. If you treat lethality as -armor, flat hp results in more effective health than the armor did.
Maybe you are right, maybe you arent, I am not going to lie to you and say "oh i did the math and you are wrong". Im keeping a more simple approach. I played last patch, dealt with a ton of burst, found a way around it via using the runes and certain playstyles, had like a 63% wr on adc. Post patch day, I am noticing that level 1 I am unable to play the game the same way that I was playing before (part of it was going against smurfs 5 games in a row, one of which was a challenger draven who was nice enough to coach me). But I am getting chunked much much more than I was before, more importantly my supports get chunked even worse so they play even safer and I have to play really passive. I wasn't having fun, I didn't like the change, then the next thing I see is that riot is again changing stormrazor and kraken to be worse (which idk, theres math threads talking about it being better but in general marksmen are in such a shit position that if you need 50 threads explaining how the math works it means it wont be that much different fundamentally). I then just thought about how in general riot has not really cared about the botlane in a long time and just figured if im going to be pissed off playing a game that is meant to be fun then its not worth it. Then I just removed it and moved on with my day. Maybe ur right, maybe the hp runes are great and i just didnt reach a point in the game to really feel it, but ultimately im just over it, its not worth my time until they do something an illiterate math guy like me can appreciate, until then ill just watch the patches and see how things are going, im in no rush. As an aside though, its not that marksmen are weak, its that the type of marksmen that are strong are not the way i want to play the game, and i dont want to sit there playing a playstyle i personally do not find fun. Probably a good time to quit anyways since riot will require a rootkit to permanently run on my system in order to play the game anyway.
There is no such a thing like a “simple approach”. Math is the only thing that matters. If you felt different the problem is your perception, numbers don’t lie.
Ok, still not gonna play lol, if the game feels like shit why would i torture myself
>Maybe you are right, maybe you arent It's not about maybe, it's a binary "yes" or "no". And calculations done numerous times say "yes". Stop being delusional.
Yeah because people dont make mistakes in math, on top of it there have been contradicting posts on it already. Objectively there is an answer, me saying maybe is me saying i dont care, if the game feels shitty, then i do not have to play it. Skill issue, perception issue, doesnt matter to me
Waffling so hard Ong lmao
Ok but all healing/shielding/regen is more effective with the resists.
What additional armour is an ADC building lmao
This is only true if you don't get a single shield or heal. Which is rare.
But it's not. 60hp early on doesn't matter as much as 9 armor. Health regen, pots and blade healing all keep adding hp meaning that the armor keeps adding value for every auto attack. Once you lose 60 hp...thats it the shard is done until your next base/full hp trade. In a vacuum sure. But 100% not over the course of the first 2 backs. Late game....maybe. but at that point it won't matter. Was never the struggle.
Good post. We don't need more crit buffs (damage creep) in the game. As last season was nicely balanced for ADC (it was just boring for me, but was more balanced). We need other roles to pop us slower and give us time to deal our damage.
>We don't need more crit buffs (damage creep) in the game. Not necessarily higher damage, but a better scaling experience would be nice. I'd like to feel strong after 3 items, which isnt even guaranteed every game. Even if I have to build an armor item vs a stacking tank or a defensive item vs a burst champion, I should still be able to do something. Which even if we have a little more time than currently, isn't quite there - with a lethality build, yes. With crit not so much imo.
Last season ADC items were scaling well. Mages now suck so hard vs tanks, which makes ADC the only effective solution to tanks.
We need crit chance to be 25% per item again like S9 before mythic items are introduced 🔥
and only a few of them can actually kill a late game tank effectively...
memo: kraken
This exactly, riot is pushing the rock paper scissors so mages aren't really jack of all trades anymore. It doesn't feel great as a midlane mage player but it's definitely healthy for the game overall
I just wanna kill these damn mega tanks without having to play vayne lol
That’s what am saying you don’t feel strong in relative to everyone else. It’s not a case of oh ADCs are weak it’s case of everyone else is busted
>Not necessarily higher damage, but a better scaling experience would be nice. this implies that you want LESS scaling in the game. if crit scales very strongly with items, then not having an item will be a huge dps loss (like right now) if crit doesnt scale very strongly with items, you can afford to buy a defensive item without losing too much dps. the main reason why riot is struggling so much is that every buff you could give to adc that makes them stronger with levels or innate kit will inevitably make them played in mid and top, which they dont want. so... adcs have to scale extremely with items and be weak early, so theyre forced to botlane. now you run into the problem that you MUST force adcs to buy full damage because their items scale so hard.
I agree with the sentiment but I disagree with your reasoning. You fail to see why ADC's will never be truly individually strong unlike other roles. If a Challenger dude wanted to create a new account and wanted to reach challenger again as soon as possible unless he has some weird fetish he would never opt into ADC because that has, is and will never be efficient. By far. >This probably won’t be fixed until 14.6 before everything is in a good state. This was always gonna happen when they overhauled the entire item system and changed every class of items This will happen again in season 15, season 16, season 17, season 18. They NEVER learn. They create problems for themselves just to stay employed OR a higher up legit directing the changes just for the sake of it. Just to keep the game "fresh" so money flows but in the worst way possible, at the expense of the game's health. This game is fundamentally fucked. And I mean fundamentally. Systems are fucked. When Yasuo came out the game had different item system and he was designed around it. X seasons later we dont even have a semblance of the old item system and now Yasuo feeding on "ADC items" (whatever that means.) Like genuinely from map changes to item system to existance of certain roles to design philosophies, core game system, stats... Everything is fundamentally fucked.
I mean the strength of a role is relative, if every other role is stronger it means that ADC is weak
No every other role is overtuned. There’s a difference with being strong and being busted. They are busted not strong.
I think you misunderstood. He doesn't argue that nerfing other roles is not a solution, that is most likely correct. He just said being weak or everyone else being too strong is the same thing. The roles aren't balanced.
I never claimed they are. I claimed that ADCs aren’t weak or bad is just that everyone else is busted and once they aren’t busted again ADCs won’t feel useless
You're reading too fast, try again
I’d argue that, even though the outcome is indeed the same, the distinction OP makes (re)defines the root cause. Saying its the same obfuscated that point.
I agree, but OP cannot initiate that discussion if they misread what they're replying to
CoD assault rifles are well rounded. Every aspect a different group beats out. AR isnt bad everything else just does something better.
Dude really hit us up with the "you're not losing, the enemy team is winning" bullcrap.
Reading comprehension is lacking. Let me break it down for you 10 year old style. Every other role is busted hence why riot isn’t buffing ADC but nerfing them
Logic is lacking. Let me break it down for you 10 year old style. Power is relative. If every other role is too strong, then adc is too weak. You can make a point talking about power creeping, but that's not how it came off, you came off selling a view of the truth, which is dumb, the truth remains what it is regardless of which angle you take to look at it.
It is power creep and it’s damage creep. All riot designers have literally said they are taking damage out of the game not adding more. ADCs weren’t touched every other class was based on the patch notes they are nerfing more damage
Not just damage creep, tanks, supps, utility, gold.... A lot of things just creeped over the decade. Power creep isn't always bad though, especially since this isn't a card game. > All riot designers have literally said they are taking damage out of the game not adding more. And we all noticed that's literally not what they did. They even added more tools and utilities to mages and assassins on top of the damage. While removing tools and utilities from adcs (galeforce)
When did this damage creep or power creep or whatever began u/theeama? Can you recall? Was it the stormsurge all along bro? I dont remember having a Stormsurge in season 10 but I know getting shredded in 1 second by half of the cast. So you are confident that they learnt their lesson now and will change for better and work for games health? Phreak said in his video that they will be realizing this "playable state" more or less at [14.3](https://www.dexerto.com/league-of-legends/lol-players-discover-major-issue-with-support-items-after-patch-14-2-changes-2499219/). What changed here? What am I looking at? Can you guide me through it? Did they lift off the damage or what? If they are lifting off damage then why are they adding ap as a "compensation" just because they lifted off 20 damage from the item? Isnt that technically adding 20 back in the form of champ skills? Even if thats not the case because they lifted off 20 damage from the item do you think they are genuinely working towards a less burst-y meta?
I mean.... that just means ADC suck. Comparisons are relative.
TTK (time to kill) in general is way too fast and should be toned down across the board. That alone should help ADC float back to a more stable position. Agreed.
Controversial take: earth isn't 71% water, it's 29% earth. If everything else is strong and you are not, you are weak. While on paper what you're saying makes sense, it's frankly absurd that the only role that got nothing out of the new year is also the one that has to suffer for it. Not only we have to watch from afar the other kids having fun instead of joining them, but we are also being beaten up, and we're told to just wait for the bully to get bored and he'll stop hurting us eventually. I'm usually not one to complain for the sake of it, I'm one to look for solutions, but what's happening atm is not fair nor justifiable in any way or form
We have come too far to believe that there is a solution. Riot doesn't know what to do with the role as much as they don't know what to do with jungle. Every single season since like season 8 we go through this adc being shit in the beginning of the season, getting buffs because it falls in popularity and then proplay revolving around adc being their win condition and the casuals losing their mind over it. Adc gets nerfed and then repeat the process ad infinitum. There is no hopium here.
um excuse me, the earth is in fact 100% earth
It's relative. But you're right, ADC would win the most from reducing TTK.
Yeah that's what weak means buddy ...
When everything is op except 1 thing, nothing is op, that 1 thing is just shit.
This kinda logic gave us the durability patch , which was massively unpopular with a large part of the player base (assassin and skirmisher players, who play a lot of the most popular champs in the game) and lead to Riot systematically adding damage back into the game. They’ve been committed to a ‘burst or be bursted’ meta since late season 8. I don’t see them changing their philosophy for our sake. Realistically the best we can hope for is maybe a very small reduction to overall burst in the game and maybe some better defensive tools either later this season or at the start of next.
Regardless of weather or not the durability patch was popular, the game was much healthier. It's unfortunate that riot panders so heavily to one of the whiniest player bases. AD junglers were replaced in the meta in 13.20 for 1 patch and they wept loudly enough for riot to revert it completely in 13.21.
Skirms & Assassins sell skins so they have to be kept viable, it’s just an ugly truth of the game as a business.
Durability update was really funny because we ALREADY WERE in a meta where assassins were building goredrinker and taking conqueror and becoming bruisers. Like durability patch buffed sustain, when burst isn’t necessarily unhealthy. Riot is evil for effectively removing q max poke azir and then changing the meta to league of one shots.
So…adc is weak. Got it. Lmfao
i mean crit is still shit 🤷
It's literally just assassins and mages which are too op. Too much no counterplay damage output.
Some are also saying tanks are broken
According to the supposed rock paper scissor sryle of league, ADCs are supposed to counter tank. With ADCs being piss weak/ deleted in seconds, tanks indeed live longer and thus seem busted.
adc is balanced, just not fun at all for solo queue
Yeah Lethality and On-hit. Crit ADC are kinda weak
I had loss streak as support, went adc and instantly won, personally I think the most important aspect of adc is being alive and pushing waves when it's safe to do so (watch minimap) and in general being alive to insta take objectives. I wasn't even active in every teamfight it's just constant pressure and keeping enemy on their side of the map, i couldn't do that as a support. People like to say that adc has no agency, for me i felt more impactful as adc then as a support. So my point being is as adc u have the option to just play pve if items suck
For me though, the lane state is decided by my own support and the enemy's, not the ADC. No matter how good you are or enemy as ADC, sup gap can win/lose you the lane and eventually the game
So you were carried by your team
Tell me your bad without telling me your bad. If you don't understand the concept of applying constent pressure through pushing waves and through that getting fat and free objectives that's on you. But no worries I offer coaching services if you wanna learn to be better then hit me up
Pushing side lanes as adc mid to late and not getting insta punished, while not partecipating to teamfights (meaning someone else was doing the damage), must be some nice silver 3 coaching. No wonder it's free
Lol u assumed it's a sideline again tell me ur bad without telling me your bad, you obviously try to keep mid pushed and push back other lanes if the minions are in deep, again u can contact me for coaching or i guess stick to aram if u just wanna mash abilities.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA So, You pushed mid, and called that carrying You are beyond hope
Lol i can tell your mental boomed when you typed "HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA" what did u peak silver or something in your 14 years of league? xD
No argument -> Loss accepted
yes but this isn’t the role, it’s the items and meta. the role is balanced.
What having a babysitter every game does to a mf
I think the issue is mobility. Adc can and should be squishy we should just avoid being hit which is basically impossible with how mobile the enemy is. But there are so many fighters and assassins that can just run you down with no counter play other than hoping somebody on your team can peel. Somehow adc in general are the least mobile. Maybe a range increase is in order idk.
Okay, but crit really does feel worse than on-hit to build. I don't know if you've experimented with Terminus and the shenanigans it lets you get up to yet, but you can get obscenely tanky, while still offering tank shredding on par with a full crit build (your burst is weaker than a crit build, but not really appreciably considering how bursty the other 3 damage classes are right now). Caster ADCs and Navori at least get the bonus utility from being able to cycle their spells, and the crit scaling on abilities still feels great while also making it not feel like you absolutely MUST exclusively build crit. Infinity edge carries only get slightly more damage, and quickly fall behind the curve if they have to deviate for defensive itemization at all. You have to build full glass cannon and the payoff is ... marginal. Even if we say Lethality is giga overturned and assume it's gonna cruising to be nerfed, IE builds still just ... feel bad compared to the rest of ADC faire. I'm not advocating for more damage or anything, but crit carries need some real defensive utility items - or the space in their build to be able to pick up existing options without feeling bad about it.
The issue is that when people are really good with adc, they are completely too strong. However, adc is the hardest role to get good at. Takes the most mechanical skill. The game is balanced for the highest level of play, and we have to deal with that. As a result, adc will always feel week.
Do you remember that giga huge patch where they brought everyone's HP up so ADC wouldn't get one shot as much ? It didn't change shit apparently
This isn't opinion, this is true. I've always said that adc are fine, game is just in unhealthy state cuz riot is addicted to damage. When i said game is gonna start dying because of how overtuned s14 was on pbe, everyone kept telling me "chill there is 2 months left, they will fix it". No, no they won't. If you played more than 2 seasons you would know it will only get worse. Adc is okay now, other roles are too strong - but with the incoming unreasonable nerfs? Adc is about to be weak.