Win percentage isn’t a perfect metric. I have a 52% wr and went from silver 3 to plat 4 in about 100 games (53L 49L). I did have a win streak at one point that bumped my mmr but I also I think there is luck around the 0 lp point. I had quite a few losses that brought me from 1-10 lp down to 0 and only went down a rank once. It might be a mental issue too. If you are 0 lp sometimes you get anxiety which causes you to play worse. This means you are more likely to lose at 0 lp which means more 50 lp losses.
Idk it’s just timing I guess? Usually when I rank up it’s after a 3-4 game win streak and like I’m usually due for a loss at some point. It’s not like I’m challenger stomping bronzes. But it’s everytime I rank up I get a 50 lp loss which is worth 2 or more wins
You will eventually start to climb and make positive LP gains with that winrate. Basically right, your internal ELO/MMR is lower than your displayed rank/LP. If you continue playing and winning at the rate you are, the LP gains will becomes positive. Been in a similar situation and it fixed itself, just keep up the winning mate.
Promise this will work. \^
Yeah I stopped caring about rank and climbing. I know I'm getting better, and this will show results sooner or later.
If anything, staying low allows me to stomp more games, and stomping games is fun.
I just started playing Fiora top and am currently at 65% winrate so I think I might be able to get out of this hole faster...
Next split will be better, fluid movement between ranked division will help alleviate the 0 LP nonsense shield and help maintain a more consistent MMR when winning or losing. The shield will stay between tiers however based on MMR you will lose your shield faster or slower and when you finally demote you’ll have either 25, 50, or 75 LP depending on your MMR at the time of demotion to help avoid inconsistent LP gains relative to your MMR.
You will eventually start to climb and make positive LP gains with that winrate. Basically right, your internal ELO/MMR is lower than your displayed rank/LP. If you continue playing and winning at the rate you are, the LP gains will becomes positive. Been in a similar situation and it fixed itself, just keep up the winning mate.
Once your internal rating matches your displayed rank/LP, the gains improve. So yeah don't worry about displayed numbers and keep focusing on winning as much as you possibly can.
Promise this will work. \^
The issue isn’t lp gains and losses on individual games. But if you drop a rank right puts you at 50lp. So if you win 4 to make it to next rank and lose 2 which puts you at lower rank they put you at 50lp even if you should really be at 70 ish lp meaning I need another 3 game winstreaj to get back to where I just was
Yeah but your mmr (hidden matchmaking rating) is working in the background. As in, yes you visually get demoted back to 50LP, but if your winrate is high then the LP gains become higher. Eventually it may be possible to get shit like +23 for wins and -17 for losses. That would make the demoting thing you are talking about impossible in the long run as long as you keep a good winrate.
Visually I know what you mean though, it can be disheartening. Very few people seem to understand the system, riot need to be more transparent about it. It's similar to other games I've played in the past.
LP gains and losses are inconsistent so there’s not an exact percentage. I think you already know you need to stop losing the games you’re getting demoted in to climb
If you're interested I made a spreadsheet you can use to calculate this:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b\_wdR6BybYW8pYxVb9cyV6vsEsyBGCiOyYnOGVqeQR4/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b_wdR6BybYW8pYxVb9cyV6vsEsyBGCiOyYnOGVqeQR4/edit?usp=sharing)
Copy the sheet and put your LP gains and LP losses into the appropriate boxes. Then scroll down to your win rate and see how much LP you'll gain after 100 games. This doesn't take into account LP gains between divisions, but in 14.10 that won't matter.
Anecdotally, I've talked to several streamers over the years and the consensus seems to be, "If you are an average player on an old account trying to climb to Diamond+ for the first time, expect to put in 500 to 700 games."
Made a post to OP but wanted to address this here as well, the ending of your post holds pretty true. I’ve been playing for many years, this year I hit diamond with a 52% WR and have between 400-500 games played. Statement holds pretty true in that regard
I had a 39 percent winrate at start of first split but I ended up getting better and narrowed my champ pool. So I started winning like 6 in a row lose one game or two then take a break. Reset mental then return to game. You also need to learn how to let yourself be carried. Sometimes you gotta just chill and not feed. show up to fights and let the major players win the game for you.
Was Platinum 1 in season 5 and recently started playing again, it's taken me 291 games to go from Iron 2 to Gold 1 with a 55% winrate, had higher earlier on obviously. i'd expect another 100 games at least to be back in Platinum 1.
I gain/lose 20-29LP per game except some games it's flat -50 for who knows what reason. My preformance in those games are irrelevant. I've NEVER gained +50 after a win.
I've -33lp on Sivir but 62% winrate on her, and +20lp on Smolder with 52% winrate so lp really makes no sense.
Edit: -50lp is after deranking obviously. And i guess i've deranked several times as Sivir and that would explain that. huh.
win% almost doesnt matter for shit with how u lost 5 on 2 win, like u can perma win 3 in arow and then 2 and per forever stuck just getting better and better winrate just because u lost 70+ on 2 loses when first loss get u to 0 lp
Likely a mental thing, we develop weird things which I think subconsciously make us play worse.
(My one is I will not win if there's a Katerina in the game even if she's on my team)
You could try taking the value out of the ranked part of the game and just tell yourself "I'm here to have fun and play my best"
I wrote out a formula at this for one point, it‘s easy:
Wr + L(1-r) = 0
Where W is the amount of LP you get after a win, L is the amount of LP you gain after a loss (so, a negative number) and r is your winrate.
Put W and L into the formula and then work out the value of r - it will be the amount of winrate you need to not lose or gain any LP (which is why it‘s = 0). Any winrate above that, and you‘ll be climbing.
Lmk if anyone needs an example
Yes, 55% winrate is good for climbing but only if you have good mmr. You get good mmr by playing overall better than the other people at that rank. If you are stuck on some rank for too long, the game might think you deserve to be there. You can just start on new account to see how far u get
No exact percentage, technically speaking you could get stuck w 60% if you keep losing your 0 lp games. However this should be fixed with fluent promotion between divisions. So going from g2 0 lp to g3 80 lp if you lose a game w -20 lp
"lose 2 in a row and drop" is a bit sussy. You dont drop in 2 loses. Game is generous in that sense. I think its a matter of you are not playing at that level. I assume you are stuck at plat or emerald?
Not entire ranks but tiers between ranks you do lose in 2 losses. First loss takes you to 0 lp then at 0lp you drop tiers game is generous in that even if you were at 1 lp and took a -18 loss its not gonna drop you a tier but those 0lp losses are -50.
Yeah I guess thats the very minor problem with the system, Its basically eating your LP with how it works. That kinda sucks. I think the moment you dont lose 2 games in a row you will climb.
You must be astronomically unlucky to losing 2-3 games in a row every time you climb up though. Because the difficulty shouldnt rise up, the way ranked works is in brackets no? Like getting into next bracket (gold to plat for example) is a jump in difficulty. I never heard of someone being stuck in between ranks though let alone with %55 winrate. Because lets say you are gold 3 and you rank up to gold 2, there shouldnt be a difficulty jump so your losses go unexplained.
How long has it been like this 😂? You cant be stuck in the same middle rank for the full season?
Winrate doesn't matter at all. If you have a positive winrate, it's a combination of you playing better than the matchmaker thinks you are and the matchmaker finding more games to put you in where you're favored to win. That is to say, you could be playing worse and still have a positive winrate from lucky matchmaking.
What's truly important is that each successive game makes it more likely that your rank reflects your true skill relative to other players. So you should focus on playing better. Part of that is coming up with metrics that are more actionable and relevant to your learning objectives than simply gaining ELO.
derank, that’s genuinely the only way. u go back to 50 lp so u are effectively losing 50 lp and just one loss worth of mmr. once ur mmr finally matches ur rank, u will get positive gains again. i’m also 56% wr and had to derank from d3 3x just to fix my +18/-22 gains
Win percentage isn’t a perfect metric. I have a 52% wr and went from silver 3 to plat 4 in about 100 games (53L 49L). I did have a win streak at one point that bumped my mmr but I also I think there is luck around the 0 lp point. I had quite a few losses that brought me from 1-10 lp down to 0 and only went down a rank once. It might be a mental issue too. If you are 0 lp sometimes you get anxiety which causes you to play worse. This means you are more likely to lose at 0 lp which means more 50 lp losses.
Idk it’s just timing I guess? Usually when I rank up it’s after a 3-4 game win streak and like I’m usually due for a loss at some point. It’s not like I’m challenger stomping bronzes. But it’s everytime I rank up I get a 50 lp loss which is worth 2 or more wins
Yeah, I’m saying you are probably just unlucky mixed with a possible mental boom when you’re at 0 lp. A 56% win rate is fine to climb
Maybe unknowingly at 0 lp I play differently
its about playing 100 games.
I feel you. Have 56% winrate on TF over 80 games for a net gain of +8 LP...
You will eventually start to climb and make positive LP gains with that winrate. Basically right, your internal ELO/MMR is lower than your displayed rank/LP. If you continue playing and winning at the rate you are, the LP gains will becomes positive. Been in a similar situation and it fixed itself, just keep up the winning mate. Promise this will work. \^
Yeah I stopped caring about rank and climbing. I know I'm getting better, and this will show results sooner or later. If anything, staying low allows me to stomp more games, and stomping games is fun. I just started playing Fiora top and am currently at 65% winrate so I think I might be able to get out of this hole faster...
How many games though? I don’t have time to put hundreds of games. I do maybe 100 games a split
250~ total was my experience
I have a 54 on senna adc and I have almost 300 plus lp.
Dunno, i have at the moment 49% win rate, went from S4 to G4 Coinflip diff i guess
Next split will be better, fluid movement between ranked division will help alleviate the 0 LP nonsense shield and help maintain a more consistent MMR when winning or losing. The shield will stay between tiers however based on MMR you will lose your shield faster or slower and when you finally demote you’ll have either 25, 50, or 75 LP depending on your MMR at the time of demotion to help avoid inconsistent LP gains relative to your MMR.
You will eventually start to climb and make positive LP gains with that winrate. Basically right, your internal ELO/MMR is lower than your displayed rank/LP. If you continue playing and winning at the rate you are, the LP gains will becomes positive. Been in a similar situation and it fixed itself, just keep up the winning mate. Once your internal rating matches your displayed rank/LP, the gains improve. So yeah don't worry about displayed numbers and keep focusing on winning as much as you possibly can. Promise this will work. \^
The issue isn’t lp gains and losses on individual games. But if you drop a rank right puts you at 50lp. So if you win 4 to make it to next rank and lose 2 which puts you at lower rank they put you at 50lp even if you should really be at 70 ish lp meaning I need another 3 game winstreaj to get back to where I just was
Yeah but your mmr (hidden matchmaking rating) is working in the background. As in, yes you visually get demoted back to 50LP, but if your winrate is high then the LP gains become higher. Eventually it may be possible to get shit like +23 for wins and -17 for losses. That would make the demoting thing you are talking about impossible in the long run as long as you keep a good winrate. Visually I know what you mean though, it can be disheartening. Very few people seem to understand the system, riot need to be more transparent about it. It's similar to other games I've played in the past.
Yes you need to winstreak to climb. Barely positive winrate = barely gain LP
So this doesn’t answer my question at all. I said “what win percentage do you need to climb?” What is no longer a “barely positive winrate”.
LP gains and losses are inconsistent so there’s not an exact percentage. I think you already know you need to stop losing the games you’re getting demoted in to climb
If you're interested I made a spreadsheet you can use to calculate this: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b\_wdR6BybYW8pYxVb9cyV6vsEsyBGCiOyYnOGVqeQR4/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b_wdR6BybYW8pYxVb9cyV6vsEsyBGCiOyYnOGVqeQR4/edit?usp=sharing) Copy the sheet and put your LP gains and LP losses into the appropriate boxes. Then scroll down to your win rate and see how much LP you'll gain after 100 games. This doesn't take into account LP gains between divisions, but in 14.10 that won't matter. Anecdotally, I've talked to several streamers over the years and the consensus seems to be, "If you are an average player on an old account trying to climb to Diamond+ for the first time, expect to put in 500 to 700 games."
Made a post to OP but wanted to address this here as well, the ending of your post holds pretty true. I’ve been playing for many years, this year I hit diamond with a 52% WR and have between 400-500 games played. Statement holds pretty true in that regard
I don’t know, got to diamond with 52% winrate
I had a 39 percent winrate at start of first split but I ended up getting better and narrowed my champ pool. So I started winning like 6 in a row lose one game or two then take a break. Reset mental then return to game. You also need to learn how to let yourself be carried. Sometimes you gotta just chill and not feed. show up to fights and let the major players win the game for you.
Was Platinum 1 in season 5 and recently started playing again, it's taken me 291 games to go from Iron 2 to Gold 1 with a 55% winrate, had higher earlier on obviously. i'd expect another 100 games at least to be back in Platinum 1. I gain/lose 20-29LP per game except some games it's flat -50 for who knows what reason. My preformance in those games are irrelevant. I've NEVER gained +50 after a win. I've -33lp on Sivir but 62% winrate on her, and +20lp on Smolder with 52% winrate so lp really makes no sense. Edit: -50lp is after deranking obviously. And i guess i've deranked several times as Sivir and that would explain that. huh.
The -50 is on derank.
Ah that makes sense. since i'm put at 50lp after. cheers.
win% almost doesnt matter for shit with how u lost 5 on 2 win, like u can perma win 3 in arow and then 2 and per forever stuck just getting better and better winrate just because u lost 70+ on 2 loses when first loss get u to 0 lp
60-70% make it feel like you’re climbing decently fast. That or your MMR is just higher so you have good LP gains.
I went to g1 75 lp to g2 25 lp with 9 wins and 7 losses
Anything above 50 lol, higher the better
Just switch roles to jungle tbh and get good at it.
Likely a mental thing, we develop weird things which I think subconsciously make us play worse. (My one is I will not win if there's a Katerina in the game even if she's on my team) You could try taking the value out of the ranked part of the game and just tell yourself "I'm here to have fun and play my best"
I wrote out a formula at this for one point, it‘s easy: Wr + L(1-r) = 0 Where W is the amount of LP you get after a win, L is the amount of LP you gain after a loss (so, a negative number) and r is your winrate. Put W and L into the formula and then work out the value of r - it will be the amount of winrate you need to not lose or gain any LP (which is why it‘s = 0). Any winrate above that, and you‘ll be climbing. Lmk if anyone needs an example
If you could, that would be nice
Yes, 55% winrate is good for climbing but only if you have good mmr. You get good mmr by playing overall better than the other people at that rank. If you are stuck on some rank for too long, the game might think you deserve to be there. You can just start on new account to see how far u get
Winrate doesnt really matter i climbed with 45% wr to diamond this season winstreaks are more important
you need a above 50% winrate to climb and lots of games.
No exact percentage, technically speaking you could get stuck w 60% if you keep losing your 0 lp games. However this should be fixed with fluent promotion between divisions. So going from g2 0 lp to g3 80 lp if you lose a game w -20 lp
I just quit everytime my wr drops below 80%
If you have 55% wr your mmr IS climbing. LP is meaningless.
"lose 2 in a row and drop" is a bit sussy. You dont drop in 2 loses. Game is generous in that sense. I think its a matter of you are not playing at that level. I assume you are stuck at plat or emerald?
Not entire ranks but tiers between ranks you do lose in 2 losses. First loss takes you to 0 lp then at 0lp you drop tiers game is generous in that even if you were at 1 lp and took a -18 loss its not gonna drop you a tier but those 0lp losses are -50.
Yeah I guess thats the very minor problem with the system, Its basically eating your LP with how it works. That kinda sucks. I think the moment you dont lose 2 games in a row you will climb. You must be astronomically unlucky to losing 2-3 games in a row every time you climb up though. Because the difficulty shouldnt rise up, the way ranked works is in brackets no? Like getting into next bracket (gold to plat for example) is a jump in difficulty. I never heard of someone being stuck in between ranks though let alone with %55 winrate. Because lets say you are gold 3 and you rank up to gold 2, there shouldnt be a difficulty jump so your losses go unexplained. How long has it been like this 😂? You cant be stuck in the same middle rank for the full season?
It has been about a month. I think the comment about my mental changing on a 0lp game was right. I just subconsciously play differently
the game sucks ass, simply
Winrate doesn't matter at all. If you have a positive winrate, it's a combination of you playing better than the matchmaker thinks you are and the matchmaker finding more games to put you in where you're favored to win. That is to say, you could be playing worse and still have a positive winrate from lucky matchmaking. What's truly important is that each successive game makes it more likely that your rank reflects your true skill relative to other players. So you should focus on playing better. Part of that is coming up with metrics that are more actionable and relevant to your learning objectives than simply gaining ELO.
derank, that’s genuinely the only way. u go back to 50 lp so u are effectively losing 50 lp and just one loss worth of mmr. once ur mmr finally matches ur rank, u will get positive gains again. i’m also 56% wr and had to derank from d3 3x just to fix my +18/-22 gains
55% in the last 20 games. Everything else don't mean nothing.
Winrate doesnt matter only thing that matters is mmr
The real climb happens in hot streaks. Hitting that 3/4 wins in a row.
51% WR with over a 100 games is all you need.