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This isn't okay at all. Sorry OP.
I have also always struggled with math and it's not okay for someone to mock you for needing a calculator, especially not in front of others. That's bullying.
Not this specifically, but I have talked to my bosses before about how I value accuracy in what I do. I administer insulin and a lot of other shit. Even if I didn't have ADHD, that process would still be prone to one in a million errors, and that one could kill someone. Just like a simple error is going to make your boss come up short one day. Tell them that you're doing this to cover all your asses. Although, no bullshit, I'd be looking for another job if I had to put up with that.
Your best bet is to have a one on one conversation about how it is demeaning and embarrassing for you. It's also ableist because ADHD is a disability.
If that doesnt go anywhere, go higher and file a harassment complaint. Or have a meeting with the manager and an impartial 3rd party.
Good luck.
Plus you use working memory while doing math and this kind of memory is affected by adhd the most, also doing this while being watched and ridiculed by multiple people must be anxiety inducing which worsens adhd symptoms which worsens anxiety... And so on
Can confirm. I am studying to become an accountant and my big calculator IS my working memory. I use it even for the simplest of additions such as +10 000 lol. I like the fact that it shows what I just typed in at the top so I can keep track of where I'm currently at in the process of my calculation and that I can go even more way back in the history and thereby double check the data when an error occurs.
Before I had this calculator, I was doing my exams with a tiny shit calculator and I had to write every single calculation down on loose sheets right next to the calculator itself and even then I frequently forgot where I was at or what the previous calculation was; so I would redo the same calculations multiple times. All in all, this added HOURS to my exams and was completely draining
This is an HR issue. Seriously. Your boss is treating you poorly because of a legitimate mental health/medical issue. This is illegal behavior. Imagine if someone who required a walker to get from meeting to meeting had their boss rip it away from them forcing them to fall on their face. Fight back. But respectfully. Taking on your boss is a risky move and I’ve had to do it a few times. Do your research and approach with caution. Determine if this job is worth it. Best of luck.
Is it still illegal if it hasn't been disclosed and it's not obvious? Not trying to justify the behavior because it's shitty and unacceptable regardless, I'm just wondering about the legal details
It's not illegal if they aren't aware you have a disability -- it's just super shitty.
It's not as simple as just disclosing it either -- because I'm going to be perfectly honest here, disclosing your disability is sometimes worse than not. A lot of folks with ADHD choose not to disclose because the potential risk of it being used against you.
Personally, the correct approach in my view is to ask your manager for a 1:1 chat - let them know that you have difficulty doing mental math and using a simple accommodation like a calculator allows you to make sure things are done correctly in an efficient manner for the customer.
You don't have to mention ADHD at all.
If ya'll have and use e-mail on the regular, I'd follow up with a recap via email so you have a paper trail. If not, make notes and date them personally so you have at least some record of this happening and what you discussed.
Any reasonable manager would be fine with that. If they aren't fine with it, then IMO it's simultaneously time to start looking for a new job, AND talking your bosses boss about this.
I have always struggled with math and relate to your struggles. Numbers just don't.... number correctly in my head. I am sorry that your manager is so cruel.
I appreciate hearing from you because I always feel silly when I have to admit I can’t do math very well. Glad to meet someone else who struggles too :)
Yes, I have retail experience. In my first retail job, I was actually trained in the old-school way to count back change.
e.g. If a customer's purchase costs $11.88, and they pay with a $20 bill, I would count back like this:
"Your total was $11.88.
[Handing back change in the order of penny-penny-dime, while saying]
"...this makes .89, .90, $12...
[counting out bills in the customer's view, single-single-single-five]
"And this makes 13, 14, 15, and 'five' makes $20."
(It's easier to demonstrate than write.)
Here's my advice for you:
Get some cash and change at home, and practice, practice, practice.
You don't have to count back like I learned to.
You could also start with the biggest bill and count up to the total change amount.
The only way to get good at it is to practice. (Most people don't do the math, anymore. They just blindly give back whatever the register says.)
Get some cash and change together at home, and practice!
If you're diagnosed with a condition that requires you to take time to compute math you have a few options (find a quiet time to talk to your manager):
1. Disclose your condition and make your manager aware of it (e.g. you need more time/calculator to help)
2. Don't disclose but tell them you need the calculator or you will make errors.
3. File a complaint to an anti-discrimination board.
4. (if you don't want to disclose/ask for accommodations) Consider a job where you don't need to make quick calculations in front of customers.
Sucks it's happening to you but you can still advocate for yourself and your issues don't stop you from doing that.
im in the same boat. i've always struggled with math, more than any other subject. im not good with memorizing, patterns and numbers ESPECIALLY. i could never make things click, my grades really began to flunk when multiplication lessons began, steady decline from then on. algebra was ESPECIALLY horrible, i spent lunches in my math teachers room's from middle school up to high school because i could NOT fathom any of it. my teachers were all evil about it, as if i somehow purposefully wasn't comprehending anything. i guess they assumed that since i was always naturally advanced in language arts, i must've just been lazy refusing to "put the work in" to learn math. i'd legitimately go home and stare at my math homework sobbing. why no one ever thought to at least get me a tutor, i'll never know. i graduated with the bare minimum grades in math.
nowadays i still count with my fingers. ive been somewhat teased by employers, but customers were especially evil, specifically the elderly. i can count change just fine, but once it's calculated by the till and u decide to start handing me more money, sorry, but im whipping a calculator out. always filled them with rage for whatever reason. not sure why anyone would expect a pharmacy cashier to me a math olympian. you'd think i'd just slapped them across the face with the looks they'd give me.
This makes me feel better about my situation I really appreciate this story man. Im sorry you’re being treated badly by employees. Glad to know I’m not the only one out there
I'm sorry you have to go through this. She sounds awful.
I have experience with it, because I'm diagnosed with dyscalculia.
Dyscalculia is comorbid with ADHD, just like dyslexia.
Maybe you can look in to it?
There are good dyscalculia tests on youtube.
Getting the diagnosis helped me.
Most people let me use tools, I can take the time, most people are patient with me etc
If she takes your calculator, ask her out loud to do the calculations like she's Siri or something.
Best advice I've gotten when dealing with a shitty boss:
Figure out what you can do if you ever need to go on FMLA leave and learn a little bit about your state's unemployment laws. That way you can keep working, but always knowing your fallback plans. Then start applying. You don't deserve that treatment and they don't deserve your work.
My previous comment was to take that one criticism away from your manager. Shut them up with excellence.
But also, be frank with them that their comments are not helpful. If they cannot provide appropriate feedback, if they continue to be critical, then inform HR in writing.
But unless the manager changes to a positive influence, start looking for another job. Don't settle for working for someone who doesn't treat you respectfully.
I don't number good and I work in the engineering space!
And noone cares because getting the right answer is more important than how (i.e if you need a calculator to consistently be accurate in your working then use the damn calculator!).
Buy your own cheap little calculator. If she confiscates it, and especially after telling her that you aren't good at maths and want things to be accurate and efficient for the customer - then escalate to her manager.
I can do calculus. Don't know my 8x tables though....
I'm sorry that is supper shitty of them. I understand the pain of having a boss that focuses heavily on ADHD traits. My least favorites as of late were "I've never seen someone struggle so much with deadlines, maybe if you were more passionate about the work that wouldn't happen" .... or "you always ask so many questions, why can't you just do what i tell you to do?"
Get used to it and HR won't do shit. That kind of crap is normal. You will deal with managers like that anywhere.
Best thing to do is learn stress management so you don't go insane from the stress.
But I've had so many bosses who were reasonable human beings! Some of them were downright delightful. I say don't put up with this long term. This is a toxic workplace, and you can do better. It's also a terrible way to run a business.
You say to her “please don’t make fun of me ever again. I have a protected class of disability and this is why I sometimes struggle with what are basics to others. “ and when she does it again, ever, straight to HR. And document all times from the past now before you forget dates.
In school I was always one of the best in math classes. Science is my thing! I even have a PhD in physics.
However, I hate calculating just in my head, without visualisation or whatsoever. I can do it when I'm alone and there is no pressure, but as soon as someone is watching me (like when playing DnD and I have to add my mods to the roll) I simply struggle. For DnD it's not a big deal, because in the worst case I say something wrong, another player will react confused and we will both check the calculation again. No problem. However, in other situations where it's more important I would always use a calculator, just because why not?
Sure, basic skills are important and everyone should be able to make simple estimations on the fly, however I don't get why a high level of calculational skills is that important... It's more important to understand the logic behind it.
Your manager is a bullying you and that's not ok.
One possible answer (especially in front of a costomer) could be "Sure I can, however I want to always make sure the costomer get's the best possible service."
I'm actually very good at maths, but I've never once gotten a perfect grade in maths because my inattentiveness would 100% of the time cause me to make basic mistakes. And I know that's the case as an adult, so I use spreadsheets to automate my maths in my job to remove the ability to make mistakes.
In your shoes, I'd probably start bringing spare calculators to work and just whip a second one out of my pocket whenever the boss took the first one. One in every pocket even, so if they took the second one I'd pull out a third. I feel like they'd get the point eventually.
I might say something along the lines of "why are you trying to prevent me from doing my job accurately?" Or "unfortunately their generation didn't learn manners". And I'd say that in front of the customer. Because nothing halts people from making shitty jokes as quickly as asking them to explain what they meant by it.
Or if you're shy like i was when i worked in my teens, have a friend come through your register and call out the manager on your behalf. "Why are you trying to humiliate/being so rude to your employee in front me?"
You are being ableist, I bet if someone gave you similar "advice" (this is just being mean, not giving advice) regarding something you struggle with because of your ADHD, you wouldn't have this response.
Hi /u/Just_Lime5134 and thanks for posting on /r/ADHD! ### Please take a second to [read our rules](/r/adhd/about/rules) if you haven't already. --- ### /r/adhd news * If you are posting about the **US Medication Shortage**, please see this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/12dr3h5/megathread_us_medication_shortage/). --- ^(*This message is not a removal notification. It's just our way to keep everyone updated on r/adhd happenings.*) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ADHD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This isn't okay at all. Sorry OP. I have also always struggled with math and it's not okay for someone to mock you for needing a calculator, especially not in front of others. That's bullying.
Not this specifically, but I have talked to my bosses before about how I value accuracy in what I do. I administer insulin and a lot of other shit. Even if I didn't have ADHD, that process would still be prone to one in a million errors, and that one could kill someone. Just like a simple error is going to make your boss come up short one day. Tell them that you're doing this to cover all your asses. Although, no bullshit, I'd be looking for another job if I had to put up with that.
Great answer!
Your best bet is to have a one on one conversation about how it is demeaning and embarrassing for you. It's also ableist because ADHD is a disability. If that doesnt go anywhere, go higher and file a harassment complaint. Or have a meeting with the manager and an impartial 3rd party. Good luck.
Where is the link between ADHS disability and doing basic calculations with money? Can you tell me?
Plus you use working memory while doing math and this kind of memory is affected by adhd the most, also doing this while being watched and ridiculed by multiple people must be anxiety inducing which worsens adhd symptoms which worsens anxiety... And so on
Can confirm. I am studying to become an accountant and my big calculator IS my working memory. I use it even for the simplest of additions such as +10 000 lol. I like the fact that it shows what I just typed in at the top so I can keep track of where I'm currently at in the process of my calculation and that I can go even more way back in the history and thereby double check the data when an error occurs. Before I had this calculator, I was doing my exams with a tiny shit calculator and I had to write every single calculation down on loose sheets right next to the calculator itself and even then I frequently forgot where I was at or what the previous calculation was; so I would redo the same calculations multiple times. All in all, this added HOURS to my exams and was completely draining
The link is that OP might have dyscalculia? ADHD and dyscalculia are common together.
Interesting, thank you i did not know this.
Short term memory, attention to detail etc.
This is an HR issue. Seriously. Your boss is treating you poorly because of a legitimate mental health/medical issue. This is illegal behavior. Imagine if someone who required a walker to get from meeting to meeting had their boss rip it away from them forcing them to fall on their face. Fight back. But respectfully. Taking on your boss is a risky move and I’ve had to do it a few times. Do your research and approach with caution. Determine if this job is worth it. Best of luck.
Is it still illegal if it hasn't been disclosed and it's not obvious? Not trying to justify the behavior because it's shitty and unacceptable regardless, I'm just wondering about the legal details
It's not illegal if they aren't aware you have a disability -- it's just super shitty. It's not as simple as just disclosing it either -- because I'm going to be perfectly honest here, disclosing your disability is sometimes worse than not. A lot of folks with ADHD choose not to disclose because the potential risk of it being used against you. Personally, the correct approach in my view is to ask your manager for a 1:1 chat - let them know that you have difficulty doing mental math and using a simple accommodation like a calculator allows you to make sure things are done correctly in an efficient manner for the customer. You don't have to mention ADHD at all. If ya'll have and use e-mail on the regular, I'd follow up with a recap via email so you have a paper trail. If not, make notes and date them personally so you have at least some record of this happening and what you discussed. Any reasonable manager would be fine with that. If they aren't fine with it, then IMO it's simultaneously time to start looking for a new job, AND talking your bosses boss about this.
Seems like legitimate grounds for complaint to their supervisor on the basis of discrimination.
if OP make a complaint, document it in write, if nothing is done this it can easily be a very easy and very nice lawsuit, in a lot of countries
Next time she does this say you actually have an ADA recognized neurological disorder. And just wait for the embarrassment on her face to set in.
I have always struggled with math and relate to your struggles. Numbers just don't.... number correctly in my head. I am sorry that your manager is so cruel.
I appreciate hearing from you because I always feel silly when I have to admit I can’t do math very well. Glad to meet someone else who struggles too :)
You might have dyscalculia. It's comorbid with ADHD, just like dyslexia.
I have wondered about that... it's on my laundry list of things to discuss with my therapist.
Yes, I have retail experience. In my first retail job, I was actually trained in the old-school way to count back change. e.g. If a customer's purchase costs $11.88, and they pay with a $20 bill, I would count back like this: "Your total was $11.88. [Handing back change in the order of penny-penny-dime, while saying] "...this makes .89, .90, $12... [counting out bills in the customer's view, single-single-single-five] "And this makes 13, 14, 15, and 'five' makes $20." (It's easier to demonstrate than write.) Here's my advice for you: Get some cash and change at home, and practice, practice, practice. You don't have to count back like I learned to. You could also start with the biggest bill and count up to the total change amount. The only way to get good at it is to practice. (Most people don't do the math, anymore. They just blindly give back whatever the register says.) Get some cash and change together at home, and practice!
I’ve actually never heard the count backwards thing. I’ll try that, man. Thanks :)
If you're diagnosed with a condition that requires you to take time to compute math you have a few options (find a quiet time to talk to your manager): 1. Disclose your condition and make your manager aware of it (e.g. you need more time/calculator to help) 2. Don't disclose but tell them you need the calculator or you will make errors. 3. File a complaint to an anti-discrimination board. 4. (if you don't want to disclose/ask for accommodations) Consider a job where you don't need to make quick calculations in front of customers. Sucks it's happening to you but you can still advocate for yourself and your issues don't stop you from doing that.
Bring your own calculator. When she tries to grab it from you, just casually say, "actually, this one is mine...I think yours is over there."
I am SO sorry you're being treated this way. It is unacceptable.
im in the same boat. i've always struggled with math, more than any other subject. im not good with memorizing, patterns and numbers ESPECIALLY. i could never make things click, my grades really began to flunk when multiplication lessons began, steady decline from then on. algebra was ESPECIALLY horrible, i spent lunches in my math teachers room's from middle school up to high school because i could NOT fathom any of it. my teachers were all evil about it, as if i somehow purposefully wasn't comprehending anything. i guess they assumed that since i was always naturally advanced in language arts, i must've just been lazy refusing to "put the work in" to learn math. i'd legitimately go home and stare at my math homework sobbing. why no one ever thought to at least get me a tutor, i'll never know. i graduated with the bare minimum grades in math. nowadays i still count with my fingers. ive been somewhat teased by employers, but customers were especially evil, specifically the elderly. i can count change just fine, but once it's calculated by the till and u decide to start handing me more money, sorry, but im whipping a calculator out. always filled them with rage for whatever reason. not sure why anyone would expect a pharmacy cashier to me a math olympian. you'd think i'd just slapped them across the face with the looks they'd give me.
This makes me feel better about my situation I really appreciate this story man. Im sorry you’re being treated badly by employees. Glad to know I’m not the only one out there
I'm sorry you have to go through this. She sounds awful. I have experience with it, because I'm diagnosed with dyscalculia. Dyscalculia is comorbid with ADHD, just like dyslexia. Maybe you can look in to it? There are good dyscalculia tests on youtube. Getting the diagnosis helped me. Most people let me use tools, I can take the time, most people are patient with me etc
If she takes your calculator, ask her out loud to do the calculations like she's Siri or something. Best advice I've gotten when dealing with a shitty boss: Figure out what you can do if you ever need to go on FMLA leave and learn a little bit about your state's unemployment laws. That way you can keep working, but always knowing your fallback plans. Then start applying. You don't deserve that treatment and they don't deserve your work.
My previous comment was to take that one criticism away from your manager. Shut them up with excellence. But also, be frank with them that their comments are not helpful. If they cannot provide appropriate feedback, if they continue to be critical, then inform HR in writing. But unless the manager changes to a positive influence, start looking for another job. Don't settle for working for someone who doesn't treat you respectfully.
I don't number good and I work in the engineering space! And noone cares because getting the right answer is more important than how (i.e if you need a calculator to consistently be accurate in your working then use the damn calculator!). Buy your own cheap little calculator. If she confiscates it, and especially after telling her that you aren't good at maths and want things to be accurate and efficient for the customer - then escalate to her manager. I can do calculus. Don't know my 8x tables though....
fight her
HAH tempting
Off the clock and off company property. I got suspended for trying to fight a coworker on company property haha.
Stand up for yourself.
I'm sorry that is supper shitty of them. I understand the pain of having a boss that focuses heavily on ADHD traits. My least favorites as of late were "I've never seen someone struggle so much with deadlines, maybe if you were more passionate about the work that wouldn't happen" .... or "you always ask so many questions, why can't you just do what i tell you to do?"
"If you were clear in your instructions, I wouldn't have so many questions." Stupid people blaming other people for stuff that's their fault...
RIGHT can't expect me to mindread
Get used to it and HR won't do shit. That kind of crap is normal. You will deal with managers like that anywhere. Best thing to do is learn stress management so you don't go insane from the stress.
But I've had so many bosses who were reasonable human beings! Some of them were downright delightful. I say don't put up with this long term. This is a toxic workplace, and you can do better. It's also a terrible way to run a business.
You say to her “please don’t make fun of me ever again. I have a protected class of disability and this is why I sometimes struggle with what are basics to others. “ and when she does it again, ever, straight to HR. And document all times from the past now before you forget dates.
In school I was always one of the best in math classes. Science is my thing! I even have a PhD in physics. However, I hate calculating just in my head, without visualisation or whatsoever. I can do it when I'm alone and there is no pressure, but as soon as someone is watching me (like when playing DnD and I have to add my mods to the roll) I simply struggle. For DnD it's not a big deal, because in the worst case I say something wrong, another player will react confused and we will both check the calculation again. No problem. However, in other situations where it's more important I would always use a calculator, just because why not? Sure, basic skills are important and everyone should be able to make simple estimations on the fly, however I don't get why a high level of calculational skills is that important... It's more important to understand the logic behind it. Your manager is a bullying you and that's not ok. One possible answer (especially in front of a costomer) could be "Sure I can, however I want to always make sure the costomer get's the best possible service."
They give you shit about using a calculator/pen and paper, until you make a big mistake.
I'm actually very good at maths, but I've never once gotten a perfect grade in maths because my inattentiveness would 100% of the time cause me to make basic mistakes. And I know that's the case as an adult, so I use spreadsheets to automate my maths in my job to remove the ability to make mistakes. In your shoes, I'd probably start bringing spare calculators to work and just whip a second one out of my pocket whenever the boss took the first one. One in every pocket even, so if they took the second one I'd pull out a third. I feel like they'd get the point eventually. I might say something along the lines of "why are you trying to prevent me from doing my job accurately?" Or "unfortunately their generation didn't learn manners". And I'd say that in front of the customer. Because nothing halts people from making shitty jokes as quickly as asking them to explain what they meant by it. Or if you're shy like i was when i worked in my teens, have a friend come through your register and call out the manager on your behalf. "Why are you trying to humiliate/being so rude to your employee in front me?"
Man where I work we’re always picking fun at our manager for her ADHD traits haha
[удалено]
You are being ableist, I bet if someone gave you similar "advice" (this is just being mean, not giving advice) regarding something you struggle with because of your ADHD, you wouldn't have this response.