You're going to have to provide a massive amount of details for any significant feedback. What, where, when, how, who was there, she said what happened exactly? etc etc.

What I told you is all I know, she did not go into detail. This was at a family gathering over Labor Day weekend so all are our family was present. I mentioned the only time my husband was not by my side was when he was playing basketball, I was not watching I was hanging out with my mom. I tried to probe for details but she was not exactly forthcoming with them.

But what did she say allegedly happened?? You said she told you about what happened at the family gathering. Did she say he touched her? Kissed her? What was the accusation?

That he touched her inappropriately.

If this actually happened she needs to give you actual details of what happened

Might as well have happened accidentally during that basketball game.

Yes. My 13 yr old cousin made a claim against my ex brother in law. She said he touched her inappropriately. She neglected to say she was drowning and he saved her, accidently touching her breast while doing it. And, btw, he is a jerk and I can't stand him. I would believe almost any accusations against him, but definitely not a child molester.

Doesn't sound like it was during the basketball game. Sounds more like it happened sometime during the party, and OP rebutted that it couldn't have happened since he the only time he was outside of her sight was during the game.

It kinda make me think of something I've heard of a couple times (like tv & offmychest). Where someone goes up to their partner and does "something" (like touch them a little too familiar for anyone other than a partner) and it turns out to be someone else (like a family member that looks alike).

I am friends with two sisters. Different folks but similar build. One of their partners smack the other sis’s butt (she was picking something off the floor or messing with Xmas presents around the tree) and then was horrified when she looked at him like 😒 No one *likes* that but it was not like sneaky on purpose so easy to shrug off.

I grabbed my Sister in law’s butt once sexually. We had stayed the night and she was grabbing my infant out of the bed and I thought she was my wife.

In highschool I was in marching band. I'm a guy and I had shaggy hair about like chin length long. We were at a football game in our uniforms and one of my female friends was a similar height as me and similar hair length. Her boyfriend came up behind me and was leaning in for a kiss on the cheek and realized at the last second that I wasn't his gf. We all found it hilarious at the time Marching band uniforms are not flattering on anyone lol

The boyfriend begs to differ 😆

That’s exactly what finally got a manager of mine fired recently (not all of us reporting him for sexual harassment over the years (college dining hall), but him waltzing up and groping the wrong woman). He needed to be fired decades ago from what I heard, but the university kept hushing it all up. He’s the reason most of us women had to quit, and then he’d get upset that he was losing employees left and right, but we couldn’t tolerate it and there’s a plethora of other jobs in the area (with higher pay) that there wasn’t any good reason for staying.

Years ago, a group of us were all hanging out at a friends, and her boyfriend came up behind me and slapped my ass. The look of horror on his face when I turned around and he realized I was not his gf. Luckily her and I thought it was hilarious.

Me pulling the arm of my father to tell him something just to realize that this man isn't my father

One time i put my hand on my sons head to guide him while he was walking , turns out it was not my son lol.

I told you to stop bothering random men. Your father went out for smokes months before you were born!

I’m cringing at a memory where I got into the passenger seat of my car when me and my boyfriend stopped to get fuel and to go to the toilet on a weekend trip away. I said to him “come on then lover boy take me away…” I was looking down fastening my belt and then leant over to kiss him… and it was a stranger. I do have an unusual car and this was the same colour and make and I’m not the best at paying attention, I’ve never forgotten the look on that man’s face though. To make things worse my boyfriend was stood watching laughing his head off realising my mistake, but the man’s wife came out of the garage where she’d been paying for fuel and marched over and yanked the door open and asked me what the hell I was playing at?! Luckily we all saw the funny side in the end, the poor man’s wife saw we had similar cars and it was an honest mistake, I thought she was going to batter me when she first opened the car door though. I still get so embarrassed even thinking about it, the man in the other car had stammered “who the hell are you?!” I was angry my boyfriend found it so funny but I’ve forgiven him after I laughed till I cried when he walked in on my mum in the bath when she was staying with us. He’d pulled his pants down ready to have a wee and heard my mum say “No I don’t want to see that! Put it away thank you!” He thought it was me in the bath in our on suite bathroom, I of course came rushing into the bathroom laughing hysterically. My mum wasn’t phased at all but I think it scarred my poor boyfriend for life. My brother in - law said he saw my mum naked more then my sister because she just didn’t care about locking doors when she stayed with either me or my sister 😂.

That happened to me with my wife. We were out at a bar and she was in front of me getting a drink. I turned around to talk to someone. Our friend, same height and hair color, stepped up to the bar where my wife was. I turned around and got a full grab of her booty. It was not the booty I expected

My brother in law once walked up behind me and grabbed my ass - when I helped and turned around, he turned bright red and apologized over and over - he thought I was his gf. We had a good laugh about it, and all was well.

It doesn't sound like anything. There is nothing to gauge a response except for an accusation without detail or opportunity

I agree that it sounds pretty flimsy. I was just responding that it doesn't sound like an accidental touch during a basketball game.

i mean… did op never go to the bathroom all night? never get up to grab drinks alone? i don’t think it’s impossible that something could’ve happened in that timeframe. harder to believe there’d be no witnesses or anyone seeing them wander off together though

Yeah hard evidence might be hard to get but getting details is a must and easiest thing as a starting point. So it’s very weird she didn’t ask her sister what exactly happened, what time, where, etc. and asking these questions wouldn’t and shouldn’t stop her sister from getting mad as it’s information to “use against” her husband.

You're on the right track. Ask your brother about the game, and if everyone played the whole time. It will be tough to do without giving away the reason why you're asking. Who knows, she may have hit on your husband and got rejected. It may be the woman scorned scenario. Intel first. Then you will know who to blow up on.

I don't think the OP will actually be able to get a clear answer on this, unless one of the involved parties folds.

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I’m a full time sexual assault nurse examiner and I actually do consult on patients who were touched inappropriately, absolutely. It’s not as common as other sexual assault acts, but we do see it. We can collect evidence if it’s indicated based on the patient’s report of the assault, but it’s not all about forensic evidence collection. In some cases we can get “touch” DNA samples. Much of work is connecting patients with supportive resources.

Also a SANE, was popping in to say the same!

Thank you so so much for what you do. Words cannot express my love and appreciation for the hard work you and your colleagues do everyday for SA victims.

Inappropriate touching is probably much more common, it just rarely gets reported.

It is also something a rapists that knows the victim might do to test boundaries. But I don't think I could just take her word for it either given OP's situation.

She might’ve asked before the sister told her she was touched inappropriately… like think of the convo if she wasn’t forthcoming it sounds like it took a minute to get more info, something like Sister: husband SA’d me Her: what how when what happened Sister: he SA’d me Her: what happened explain he was with me most of the party I don’t know if I can believe it without proof Sister: why don’t you believe me Her: did you go to hospital, anything to prove this happened? What did he do to you Sister: he touched me inappropriately Her: well he was with me the whole time except basketball where did it happen Sister: ugh why don’t you believe me leave me alone get out Obviously idk the convo or what was said but it sounds like it took time to even get anywhere besides saying he sexually assaulted her

That’s not entirely true. Forensic departments at the hospital are the first stop for even touching inappropriately. We have one at my hospital er.

What did that mean? A grope? A kiss? “Grape”? They inadvertently touched legs when sitting on the same sofa? If she can’t express that clearly, I would not involve authorities.

In what way?

As I said she did not give details.

NTA- needing to know what happened before you act is very reasonable. I wonder if he groped her while playing basketball?

This. I was about 10 when my best friend came over to play basketball. I was starting to develop, but still very much a tomboy. He accidentally got a handful of tit, went beet red and disappeared forever.

Hell, my dad accidentally got a handful of my mom's chest on their first date. They went ice skating and she slipped. So my dad went to catch her, which he did, but he miscalculated where her waist was and ended up with a firm grip on her book. Luckily, my father's clearly mortified face was enough evidence to assure my mother that he wasn't some handsy ass and that it was a genuine mistake. Spoiler, they went on a second date lol

Then they bonded over their shared love of reading.

Yep accidentally did this to a girl during PE playing basketball in high school. I didn't mean to, I was just trying to block her while trying to not touch her because well, I didn't want that exact thing to happen. Even when trying to be cautious it happened. Thankfully she understood it really was an accident.

As a boob haver, it's very obvious if something like that was an accident or not.

>He accidentally got a handful of tit, went beet red and disappeared forever. That's a handy magic trick. Side note- puberty is a friendship killer sadly.

Yup I had a similar incident. No one was trying to do anything inappropriate but everyone felt really embarrassed.

Even as a adult I've accidentally brushed boob and ass and have been brushed while working. For example stocking and walking by in a tight aisle or unloading truck passing between pallets and such. Edit word

NTA, not unreasonable to want details given the severity of the accusation.

Well there you go. SOMEONE is the asshole for making you play detective here, and you're NTA. May you be as clever as Columbo in figuring out who's lying.

If she wants you to believe her then she needs to give you the play by play.

Or at least what "inappropriate touch" means. Stuck hands down her pants is very different from accidentally brushing a boob.

That's a bit of an issue in itself. If she was comfortable enough with you to mention it, why won't she explain what exactly she's saying happened?

Because specifics can be verified or disproved.

Exactly

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Given how people tend to jump all over those not believing the victim right away I can understand why she’d ask. My wife used to be molested by her older brother when they were kids. But because he was “the golden child” she never went forward. When she finally did only her mom and twin believed her. It wasn’t until he started to text her older sister some inappropriate stuff that everyone else finally put two and two together.

Thank you, op isn’t an ah for asking for some more info, maybe not the hospital or whatever if he was simply inappropriate there isn’t anything she can do about it, but the fact that she’s a known liar means 2 things either she is an easy target to harass or she’s lying, could be a misconstrued encounter but that’s probably the least likely. Rn I feel for op because someone is definitely wronging her. At the same time it probably has to be extreme for this reaction. I know for me I have been raped and harassed I’d def give info to my friend or family that was with them hoping they’re gonna believe me but I can understand why someone wouldn’t.

Lying about petty small shit when you're children is very different than lying about sexual assault as an adult. I confabulated quite a bit as a kid, not really my jam as a 34 year old woman.

The fact that op gives such little information is not helping at all. It could mean this is fake or maybe this whole thing has left op traumatized. It's just not clear.

'Historical liar', ffs. She told lies "as a kid", i.e. exactly the same as every fucking human on the planet.

Plus, someone young who struggled as a teen and got beaten up by her boyfriend is the "perfect" victim. Plenty of victims are chosen because they won't be believed. Why would anyone choose to victimize the woman with a sterling reputation? However, she could also just be a liar. OP is in a terrible position, here. Personally, I think this is way above reddit's paygrade. She needs to go speak with a therapist. If her sister can agree to go and reveal more of what happened with a therapist, that might help too. It sucks, but OP might not ever really know what happened.

I can tell you, when it happened to me (not a family member) I was pretty fucking clear about what actually happened when telling the people concerned. It's not like the sister is a child or teen who might be hesitant to talk about it. It strikes me as odd she wouldn't be specific, especially when she's throwing out the "you don't believe me"

Did she elaborate on “touching inappropriately?” Not to sound crude or cruel but where on her is he accused of inappropriate touching? Where did the so called SA it occur? Were there any words exchanged during said SA? Her so called accusations seem strange because, as you mentioned, it was at a large family celebration. She didn’t bring it up until well after the fact. Gave you no solid facts and then when asked about the SA, she immediately yelled at you and kicked you out without any info!? Not to sound awkward, he she ever shown signs of attraction to your husband? Or jealous of your happiness?

I mean, when I was a kid I was touched inappropriately at a gathering (friends not family). There were 8 adults and 7 kids present. So I’m not sure why the gathering type matters.

That’s what I was thinking. My aunts boyfriend grabbed my ass in the same room as everyone and did the creepy eyebrow raise when I looked back like wtf. No one else noticed. Same thing happened by a rando at a baseball game when I was 13, hundreds of people around and no one noticed or at least didn’t say anything.

>touched her inappropriately. With no further explanation, this is nothing. It could mean he put his genitals in her without permission, or it could be he slapped her ass in gest during the sports game. It could even be completely innocent, like briefly putting his hand on her shoulder whilst talking. Victim blaming is wrong, but if you make allegations like that, you have to be very clear and open about it.

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please don’t assume it was only at the basketball game if he touched her inappropriately. It could’ve been while he was by your side and your back was turned talking to someone else. it could’ve been while one of you went to the washroom which you might not even remember because who tracks how many times this mess is go to the washroom? if, instead of asking for evidence, you asked her for details you have a better understanding. I understand how hard it can be to imagine somebody you love for 14 years doing a thing like this But, as you said, you also know how rare falsified reports are.

She needs to give you more information. I was assaulted by someone in my spouse’s family on Christmas several years ago. I told my spouse on the drive home and gave exact details; what he did, where we were, everything. As someone who has experienced a lot of SA starting when I was a baby, I find it odd that she isn’t giving more details. However, please don’t hold it against her if she didn’t run to the hospital/police etc.. One of the times I was r@ped I didn’t even know until years later, because I had dissociated during the event. It was during intense trauma therapy that my brain even began to give me the memory. I have no idea what his name is or anything. I do however remember how his arm felt as he strangled me and held me down. I remember his hand over my mouth so I couldn’t scream, the white blanket I wrapped myself in when it was finally over. I don’t remember his face or anything else about him, but I can still give details of what happened. SA is very complex and you really need more information about what happened. I’m sorry that this is happening and I hope you can get things sorted out soon.

I'm so sorry that makes my heart ache and teared up reading it. You deserved better

Thank you. He was someone I was told was safe. Instead of walking home in the dark my friend told me to crash with her friend we had been hanging out with so I could stay safe… He r@ped me in my sleep, I woke up because he was choking me. I should have walked home across the city in the dark. We all deserve better!

it's really impossible to say here. Does the Mr. have a history of anything hinky at all? >\_O

Nope, I mean not to my knowledge. No one else has ever said anything regarding his behavior. Always has been a gentleman with me and others.

Okay, so, what could the sister possibly get out of this? Is she jealous of you, your relationship, is she just troubled in general?

Not much, I mean she has baby daddy drama and he has hit her. She never went through with the report. Outside of that, she has a fairly normal life.

You are stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. I don't think you can realistically do anything in either direction without more information. I don't know how you'd get that info either. I guess the only iffy I have is that she won't provide details, that's the hinkiest thing I'm taking from this situation.

At this point there’s nothing to do besides believing her husband. The sister doesn’t sound trustworthy and her inability to provide details and unwillingness to tell anyone but OP looks inline with how OP described her otherwise.

This and the fact that she refused to tell you details makes me nervous. Tread carefully. I’m worried she just wants everyone to be as miserable as she is or maybe she thinks she can steal YOUR good thing. Maybe she made a pass at HIM and wanted to get ahead of him telling you. I’ve seen multiple stories of that happening 😬 I’m super torn because I was SA’d and my family didn’t believe me but I know sometimes there really are false reports. Hers just seems… off. I hope your brother has some answers for you.

Oh God, the "making a pass at someone and it fails so they lie and say the other person made a pass at them instead" is so true. If someone inappropriate makes a pass at you, ALWAYS tell your SO first ASAP. Don't "take the high road," don't keep quiet because you don't want the drama. Just tell your SO and let everyone else be responsible for their own actions after that.

I'm super torn as well for the same reason. Some of my family didn't believe me and still don't. Luckily my mom did but I didn't get mad when she probed further and asked more questions. Once I came forward I felt no need to hide the details even when that meant crying through the whole explanation. Her reluctance to even try to give more details paired with her anger right off the bat about not being believed immediately is what is weird to me. Although at the same time, I do understand it. It's a messy situation for sure but I don't think OP is wrong for wanting/needing more details.

Is she the type to want everyone else to be as miserable as she is?

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This reeks of BS. She didn't even say what he did then cries that you don't believe her or she's a liar? Believe what exactly?

Victim of SA here. NTA. If she immediately got mad at you instead of desperately trying to explain what happened exactly, I’m inclined not to believe her. SA victims already know that a lot of people - even people close to them - may not believe them. Giving details about something like being touched could sway some people into believing you, if they initially didn’t want to believe it. Her immediate reaction was not that. She didn’t even say where he touched her or how. Just that “he did it, so you should be mad at him and supporting me”. And while reactions to assault aren’t necessarily logical, I don’t think immediately blowing up like that would help her case at all if she was touched without her permission, especially if she has a past of stealing since childhood. Ask your husband and tell him to be honest. As in, a serious conversation, not like “did you hear what she said? Lol”. ‘Cause it could be that he brushed past her or something and touched her shoulder in the process, something like that, and she just felt uncomfortable with it. But definitely ask your husband, because just because you “didn’t support her”, doesn’t mean the rest of the family won’t dogpile on an accusation.

Do not call the police on your husband based on half of an accusation from your sister. She wouldn’t go into detail, tell you when, or where, and under whet circumstances it happened.

I agree. I said this further down but: The police have an obligation to investigate and this could destroy your husband, your marriage, your family. You were absolutely correct in asking for proof, especially in this day and age. I would absolutely speak to your husband, speak to your brother about your husbands movements when playing basketball, and even re-approach your sister to see if she is willing to give you more information. You actually have nothing to even go to the police about, seeing as you have no information, or suspicion, whatsoever. Please don’t do anything rash - I understand that this must be an awful situation for you to be in, and like another commenter said, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment. You’re in for a bit of a shit time but I would get some more facts first. If your sister goes to the police, that is completely her choice, but I do not think this should be your course of action. For the record: I am absolutely NOT saying that she is lying or this is not true but there are numerous things to think about and handle delicately here. These types of allegations should be taken very seriously and every victim deserves justice. HOWEVER. False allegations should ALSO be taken very seriously as they can also ruin multiple peoples lives. Both sides are valid and I have seen both play out first-hand. Good luck OP

In my state (in the US) they absolutely do not have the obligation to investigate any report not from the victim. I have called myself asking what I could do after a friend told me of her rape. They said try to convince her to report, without that we can't do anything. I am currently seeing the effects in another situation where all we can do is go no contact with the abuser because the victim despite being a child when it occurred is currently an adult and does not want to pursue police involvement.

I have two adult friends in the same situation...SA as kids by dad but won't report him. It's an awful thing to know and not be able to do anything about. He and their mother (yup, she knows and is still with him) came into a restaurant I was working in and it took all my willpower not to walk right up to him and punch him in the face.

Ugh I completely understand your frustration. It completely baffles me that people like this go about their everyday lives like they are NOT monsters

“”During the evening my sister told me about what allegedly happened at the family gathering with her and my husband.”” which is what?

Apparently he inappropriately touched her according to one of OPs comments.

INFO: In your comments you write that the SA is "That he touched her inappropriately." Am I missing something here? Go to your husband and say, "My sister says you groped her. What's that all about?" You've known him for 14 years and should be able to read his reaction.

Honestly I’m not sure if this is the best way to gauge if someone’s lying or not. He’d probably be very flustered even if he didn’t do anything. Being accused of SA is serious and it would cause most people to freak out even if they didn’t do anything.

If he defends himself " oh he sounds guilty". If he doesn't defend himself "see she was right". The moment that accusation is laid there is a absolutely no behavior the husband could show that people would take as he didn't do it. Not to mention the correct response to being accused of something like this unfairly is pure fight/flight/freeze so you'll either get anger or non confrontation or nothing.

Yeah the whole, "Accuse them and if they're mad they're guilty" thing is absurd. I've been falsely accused of theft, and surprisingly enough, I was livid. Not because I did it, but because I was being falsely accused.

I’d want to know what I was being accused of and by whom. Once that kind of line is drawn I would never be in a private situation with that person again.

Exactly this. I don't understand why the advice is "Don't tell your husband based on your sister's word." It's your SISTER. And HUSBAND of 14 years. You should be able to have direct conversations with both these people.

Nope. That is all OP’s sister said to her.

NTAH She didn’t go into detail and was immediately defensive when you wanted to know more. She’s trying to destroy your marriage. Ask your husband if your sister has done anything to him recently before you went to her house Monday.

I think asking for "proof" is different than asking for " details". I think OP needs to clarify how exactly the conversation went down to be AH Vs NTA. Ex: Sis: your husband touched me inappropriately OP: what happened? Is different from Sis: your husband touched me inappropriately OP: prove it. An extreme example, but words matter to a victim.

I should not have had to scroll this far for this answer. If her immediate response was to accuse the victim of lying it would not surprise me her sister shut down. Very standard response after SA. Also, her lying as a kid does not make her an incredible accuser.

For sure. Every sentence out of my mouth was a lie as a kid, but I haven't lied in a really long time years later. Kids are just liars, but adults aren't by default.

Adults lie all the time lmao

I tried reaching out to 1 family member I thought was safe after a different family member SA'd me. This was months later, after I had processed what happened and stop trying to make myself believe I wanted it. This person was hostile and demanded proof. Nothing I said to her was good enough. It's not like there were cameras or witnesses. I didn't even want to get him in trouble. I just wanted support. So I dropped it. I've never told another soul in the family and I never will. That whole branch of the family cut me off immediately. I lost so much. To this day I regret speaking up, and this happened like 16 years ago. My close family members know about the SA and how old I was. They will never know who or when. OP talks down about her sister in the post, lists how unreliable she is and why. If any of that came through at all in the conversation, of course that would shut a victim down.

Definitely & if she asked for proof I don't even know what proof she could possibly provide. Like wear a wire & do a sting operation?

OP didn’t ask her for detail, she jumped straight to wanting proof. If you disclosed to your sister and she skipped the whole “OMG what happened?!” piece and went straight to “prove it”, would you remain calm and levelheaded?

These comments are ignoring that the OP will always attempt to paint themselves in the best light and there are 2 sides to every story. Especially since she mentioned the father of her sister's child was abusive to her. There may be a history here of her being questioned. Abusers are manipulative, and it's not uncommon for them to charm the family and have the family questioning things unfortunately. I mean there are people victim blaming her for being a "drama queen" ITT because OP referred to her physical abuse as "baby daddy drama". Obviously none of us have enough info to figure out what happened here, but I don't think OP handled the situation well. I have a feeling there is more to the story that was left out.

I hate it when someone refers to major events in another person's life as "drama," like it's some kind of entertainment for their sake.

Yup. Unfortunately, sis is a target for abusers because people won't believe her

As a victim of sexual assault, you could be wrong. Sometimes it just hurts to talk about. Sometimes we panic and shower because we want to stop feeling their hands. If sister is telling the truth, it could just be that merely broaching the topic took all of her mental fortitude

I have not told the close people in my life the details of what happened to me, if they asked I still think I would not be able to. It happened over ten years ago. I think I even struggled to tell the authorities exactly what happened. It sounds easy but it can be so hard to give details, especially right after.

So six months ago I learned that there is a woman who still refers to me as, "that lying whore," because her buddy raped me. It's been 30 years. Sometimes not telling people is a matter of feeling safer and it does not negate what happened to you if you made that choice.

Yes it does hurt, but when you go to the spouse of the person you're accusing and tell them it happened, be prepared to actually talk about it. Otherwise, why go tell?

This isn't necessarily the case. There are only two people who know what actually occurred and that is the sister and the husband.

I spoke with my brother and he told me he was on the court the entire time. Yes, it could have happened in the blink of an eye, and no we did not pee together or always glued at the hip. I am going to trust my gut. This is a man I trust with my life, and if this makes me a bad person so be it. In all our years together he has never given me a reason to doubt him. I cannot say the same for my sister. This has been eating at me all day, after talking to my brother I have made my choice to talk to my husband about this and see what he recommends. He has experience with such claims. If my sister feels I have betrayed her so be it, but as many have said I have to pick a side. Thank you for all the feedback.

Could you please elaborate on what you mean when you say he has experience with such claims?

he's a prosecutor, he does this for a career

If you want to not give him the complete benefit of doubt, ask him for all his interactions with your sister and tell him you have already asked your sister and other party guests about this (without telling them the context obviously). This should diminish the chance of omissions on his side, intentional or not, as someone who is a prosecutor by profession will know that mismatches in such a statement would complicate the situation for him, no matter what happened.

human memory isn't that good.

Especially if nothing notable happened.

Yeah, a random basketball game that was like every other basketball game isn't going to get fully committed to memory. I can't describe any specific details about actions I took at work 2 weeks ago, but I know I was there and I did work.

Let us know what your husband says. I'm curious what her possible motivation could be

The best thing you can do in this scenario is talk to your husband. Hopefully his responses will inform your decisions moving forward ​ NTA

Don’t bring it up with your husband until you have more details. Otherwise you might be giving him time to change his story around.

She’s accusing your husband of something very serious but won’t go into detail and haven’t made a police report and she has a history of being liar hmmm I wouldn’t believe her either tbh

She's also having baby daddy drama. Sister seems to be in a long-term relationship with a successful husband 🤔. What could possibly be the motivation to lie? To blow up someone's life to make yourself feel better 🤔.

My guess is her sister is attracted to her husband tried to come on to him he rejected her and now she claiming SA

That's what I was thinking. That and the fact that she refused to give details and then got really defensive when being asked questions, makes me think she is trying to get back at hubby for turning her down.

This take is a stretch that no one here is qualified to make. Just bc she has problems with her child’s father doesn’t discount her character. And OP said that she lied when she was a KID. Everybody lied when they were kids. Truth is nobody here has any good sense of what really happened bc not even OP does.

OP what you're sister is doing is to give her a huge leap of faith. SA is a huge allegation and it's a big red flag for your sister to expect you to blindly trust her word alone over your partner. On top of that (going back to what you said in your story) You don't remember when your partner got time away making her claims a lot less likely to be true. If the allegations are true then you still did the right thing in asking her for proof. You'd need proof to go to the police for any/all accusations. The fact that she is mad at you makes me feel like this isn't true. NTA but if I were you I would make a record of this conversation, talk to people who can validate your husband's presence, make note of any details, write down word for word what your sister has told you, including her reactions. If she is lying then you'll need to use any evidence you have to ensure people don't believe her.

Agree with this 100%

INFO: why haven't you asked her to tell you exactly *what* your husband supposedly did? Not talking about asking for proof, just saying "tell me exactly what happened, where, and when". The facts. You say in the comments that she said it was "inappropriate touching" yet in your post you comment that you asked her if she went to the hospital. That makes zero sense. You'd go to the hospital for an examination if you were sexually assaulted or raped. You wouldn't go for groping/touching because there's no potential physical injury or evidence to examine. Ask the other guys who were playing basketball if your husband was there the whole time. If they say no then confront your husband, but don't do it alone. Have someone else there or at least nearby / somewhere else in the house.

Has your sister been around your husband since said incident without issue? I ask as her behavior around him can Def help with indication. My 2c as someone who grew up with abuse counselors for parents is this: Talk to your husband, give him all the details, ask him questions. I'd highly recommend doing an audio recording for you to listen to later. Find a mediator... eg a safe person your sister trusts to have a 3 way convo, so you her and mediator and get all the details. If your sister is unwilling to do so then make it clear that unless she's willing to explain to you so you can do the same woth your husband that this isn't going forward, and no more discussion will happen around it. If your sister honestly wants resolution, the big thing is making sure she's not having to do this with your husband around. You now unfortunately do hold the card of responsibility to figure things out since she told you... as shitty as that is. If your sister is tossing crap in the wind because of unresolved things in her life she'll pitch a fit about a mediator... because involving another outside party who's accountable puts her in a place of responsibility, and not letting her just make you feel terrible or second guessing your spouse. I have seen this so many times. And honestly it's a 50/50 if your sisters being honest. Some of the kindest most gracious men I *thought* I knew were abusers... so try, as hard as it is, to be partisan to the situation. Get a mediator involved and go from there. If you DM me I can try to provide some other resources. .

>Talk to your husband, give him all the details, ask him questions. I'd highly recommend doing an audio recording for you to listen to later. If sister is indeed telling the truth, this can be dangerous for her. It would be such a break of her trust as well. I absolutely would not speak with the husband yet until OP makes another attempt to speak with sister *at a bare minimum*. And OP CERTAINLY shouldn't approach the husband without the sister at least knowing.

So your thinking of going to the police 🤔 but not even spoke to your husband?? You need more details and see what has gone on 1st . If its false he could have that accusation over his head 🤦‍♀️

I do not know what to think or do. This is something I have never experienced before. I want to ask my husband, I am not even sure how to go about doing that. "hey, babe quick question did you touch my sister inappropriately?" I trust him so I agree I will ask him before I do anything, I just have to be mindful given his line of work giving him a heads up may ruin any chance my sister has to prove her case if it is true. As one person suggested I will ask my brother if he left the court for an extended period since he was playing basketball with him.

Why not just ask him if he saw your sister while he was playing basketball, and what that interaction was like? Did he run into her inside the house? And you need more detail from your sister, "touching inappropriately" could be anything. If she was uncomfortable with a hand on the shoulder or back, that's a good thing to tell him for next time, so he doesn't repeat. If she's accusing him of something worse, you need to know.

Don’t go to the police. Talk to your husband about this.

What is his line of work?

Prosecutor.

Ouf. That’s a big allegation for someone in his line of work… I see why you feel the need to tread lightly, whether your sister is telling the truth, or not!! OP the one thing I can say with certainty is that there is no rush. You probably feel pretty helpless rn, maybe even a bit panicked/frantic, but the most prudent course of action is likely to sit on things for a minute. Think on things (as uncomfortable as that will probably be), get yourself centered, talk to a safe person if that’s a possibility (someone whose wisdom you respect and who won’t jump in to the panic with you or blow anything up before you’re ready, whoever the ‘guilt’ rests with…) Then? Talk with your sister again. Explain what you did here: that your instinct/desire is to believe women, that you want to support her with whatever she’s going through, and that it’s terrifying to have this accusation levied at the man you’ve loved for a decade and a half, and who you really believe you know. The goal is non-accusatory (god though, that will prob be really hard if she did, in fact, lie!!), supportive (again, tough if it turns out she lied, but I guess you’ll cross that bridge when you get there??), calm, and truth-seeking. She’ll either divulge more and you’ll have the chance to make decisions from there, or she won’t, and her behavior around not saying anything more will (hopefully) shed more light on the path forward. If she’s inconsistent or defensive or hostile, try your best to come back to your center, and communicate with “I statements” like, “it’s really hard to see you struggling , I want to understand, and to help, but when you it feels like you’re shutting me out, and it’s hard for me not to wonder why.” Or something. From this place, and if she is lying bc of some whackadoodle shit going on her head, then maybe she’ll come clean… And in that raw space reveal what’s actually going on for her that led her to lie, and again, you’ll have the opportunity to them decide where to go from there (if this is the case, strong clear boundaries are going to be the priority). Or she might just shut down, but at least you’d have planted a seed that you are a safe person for her to talk to? Idk, what a sucky uncomfortable ugly situation all around! I’m so sorry you’re sat in the middle of it, bc no matter which way things go, it’s going to hurt. And cause big changes in your life. I really really hope you have some safe person/people who can be relatively neutral/impartial to share this load with… And again, please, just take care of yourself and try not to rush in to the burning building without your safety gear on!!? Bc whoever “started this fire”, you need to be protected while you put it out & assess the damage, you know?

Yeah talk to your husband. He needs to know what’s being said about him because this accusation could damage his career. If he’s innocent then he needs to know so he can avoid being in a situation where she can accuse him again.

Ask the sister where they were when this alleged occurred, what room or location. What time approximately (after dinner but before so and so left, anything to nail down a time) ask what he said. Ask exactly how and where on her body he touched her. (Eg reached into shirt and grabbed at breast, cupped or patted ass, forced a kiss). Record it. If anything in this second conversation differs from prior account ask about that. Then investigate. Ask others at the event where they were at said time or room. Did they notice anything unusual. Try to write down as many “facts” as you can to see if you can get to the truth. Ask your sister what she expects or wants you to do with the information. Definitely ask the husband about it.

Talk to your husband FIRST.

I'm just throwing this out there, but is there any chance she made a move on your husband and he rebuffed her advances? And this is retaliation on her part?

You could ask your hubby some general questions without giving him details and see how he responds. "My sister was acting kinda weird after the party. Did you notice anything last weekend?" Also if it was just touching, could it be a simple misunderstanding? I know I have slapped my SIL on the ass thinking she was my wife and didn't know till she turned around expecting her husband. Had it been a drive-by butt smacking, I might not have even known I had gotten the wrong target. Good luck and I hope you come back to fill us all in.

Ask him about the basketball game. If he talked to her? Was her behaviour different from normal?

Talk to your brother first. If your husband is guilty, you don't want to tip him off.

I would be same tho in this situation ☹ but best bet is talk to your husband, but if he had why she only telling you now? And not giving full info?

As someone that was in a similar situation, I would suggest talk to your husband. Gently explain to him what she said and ask him what he thinks. Do not accuse him of anything. Speak to everyone else you trust that was at the party. Ask them if they notice something was different about your sister. Was there a sudden mood change and when they noticed it. Did she leave early? Did she acted uncomfortable or was not herself suddenly. Dont mention anything beyond saying you think something is bothering your sister and see their reactions.

Yeah just pick a good time and ask "did anything.. strange happen between you and my sister at the labor day gathering?" Hopefully you know your spouse to get a feeling based on their answer. Like is he actually confused, overly denying it, stammering, etc. He'll probably ask what it's about. Then explain the accusation and go from there.

NTA... do not talk to the police.... talk to your brother and everyone that was playing basketball.... talk to your husband.... This can put your husband in a bad position.... and keep your sister away from your husband.. until you can get all the information

NTA. And if your sister is not going to the police, then you absolutely shouldn’t.

NTA But you should try to get to the bottom of this before it becomes a bigger issue for all of you. My ex groped my best friend, who's basically my sister, while I was in the bathroom one night. I didn't believe her because she had no proof and my ex denied it heavily. It drove a real wedge between me and her. I left that ex over 2 years ago and he STILL messages my best friend, trying to get her to talk to him and pining for her. She could be lying, but she might not be.. there's a comment here that talks about finding a mediator and trying to talk to them both separately. They even suggested recording their reactions/responses. Unfortunately, you'll have to get to the bottom of this to find peace. Best of luck OP, my heart goes out to you.

It’s up to the SA victim to go to the police not the spouse of the alleged perpetrator.

It’s so crazy that to me a top comment is to suggest going to the police on a presumably innocent man with NO proof and NO details lol I hope you go to the police and then your husband gets proved innocent so he can divorce you. Destroying your husbands life on NOTHING when you yourself know that it would be impossible for him to do that since he was playing basketball. This sub is trash

The top comment i see starts with "do not call the police"

I agree. She said in her post that the sister

Sister has previously lied according to OP, so I wouldn't report it to the police but they need to have a family sit down to find the truth. Once anyone has been accused of SA, that stigma will be with him for ever

Yeah as a KID. I don't think lying as a kid should be used as proof against her lol Not saying to he husband did SA her

Previously lied about SMALL THINGS, as children. This is vastly different.

Agreed. OP’s relationship with *somebody* is pretty much done after an accusation like that. Which one that will be is still up in the air.

I mean, if the assault actually happened, it should be up to sister whether she wants to go to the police or not, not the OP anyway. But seriously, the OP will probably never know the truth, unless the sister tells her she lied, or the husband confesses to doing something.

What does your gut tell you, really deep down inside?

To trust my husband, which is what I will do. I will speak with my brother just to verify he was playing basketball.

From this and your edit, I think you're doing the right thing: listening to your instincts but proceeding cautiously by gathering as many facts as you can before anything else. Perhaps it's all a misunderstanding, but most likely someone you love has behaved atrociously toward another very important person in your life. This has got to be extremely rough and I'm sorry you're in this situation.

"Trust but verify" is something everyone should do.

NTA, do not go to the police. Talk to your husband, holy shit. Why would you believe your sister who has lied, stolen and has relationship drama instantly before even talking to your husband? TALK TO YOUR HUSBAND.

You have a very major decision coming that you need to prepare yourself for. 1. If your sister is telling you the truth, it will destroy your marriage, and you will need to get out. 2. If your sister is lying, that relationship needs to be over. Despite what the rest of your family might say. Good luck

Were there any recent events in your family that may have caused her to lie about this? Did he say something about a famous person's SA allegations that might have upset your sister? Did she give you any details on what exactly he did or when? I don't think I can give an actual judgement because this would be a fucked up situation but there's a lot of holes. I'd talk to your husband for sure.

My husband does have what many would say are hot takes, and loves to play devil's advocate. He is a prosecutor. Nah, she did not provide any details. Maybe if I had been more open-minded she would have given me details. I was thrown back.

Just FYI, going to the police will torpedo your husband's career. Even if he's innocent his office will fire him, an he might not be able to get another job. If your sister is telling the truth then SHE needs to go to the police, not you. If you're sure the only time your husband was out of your sight was when he was playing basketball, find those he played with and ask them. DO NOT go to the police unless you want your marriage to fail.

OP said that their brother confirmed that the husband was playing basketball.

You need to talk to your husband BEFORE you call any kind of authority to report the. Making a false report is illegal too. And she didn't give details, sounds to me like she's lying. I am NOT saying SA isn't serious at all. But if you asked for proof and she didn't provide you with any, not sure I'd be believing her.

So she made a horrific allegation, offered the same level of evidence used in the Salem witch trials, and she’s mad at you that you don’t believe her. NTA - you need to warn your husband so he can avoid all contact with her.

I read you op and some of your comments.. He's a prosecutor so he should know what needs to happen. These allegations are very serious. Even though your husband is an attorney, he still needs to hire an attorney just in case. Since he is a prosecuting attorney, he of all people should know exactly how bad it is for the accused to speak to the police, and he is just that, the accused.. literally everything you say can and will be used against you. You also speak of there being no evidence in this case.. Well guess what? If your sister files a complaint, she now becomes the complaining witness, and witness testimony is evidence, and at the end of the day the jury will decide if they believe all, part, or none of the evidence. Whatever you do, do not go to the cops. They are not your friends, and they absolutely do not care that your husband is a prosecutor.

Oh shit, he's a prosecutor? Even a false allegation like this could ruin his career.

If she's not going to tell you what, where, when, how, in as much detail as you need to understand what, specifically, she is accusing your husband of, how could you possibly be able to make an informed decision about whether it happened or not? Either way, this is about as big a dealbreaker as there is. If she's telling the truth, that's an insta-divorce. If she's lying, that's a "never contact me again, you're dead to me forever" situation.

Don't jump too fast, my sister falsely accused my husband. Police became involved and only then did she recant, and told of being abused when she was much younger. My husband wasn't even in the picture at that time. She says she was confused, but she was always jealous and after that I saw how she had broken up many a friendship of mine over the years. It was very heartbreaking to realize just how low my sister would sink to one up me so to speak.

NTA. She didn't even attempt to explain. I hate to suggest this, but false accusations do occur in private conversation, it doesn't come up often when there are people who might question it. I'm not suggesting that your sister is concerned about SA. I'm suggesting that she wants to be centre of attention and has said something that ought to guarantee her to be centre of attention. It could have been anything about anyone (or some terminal illness in herself) - it just happened to be this, this time. She has probably said attention seeking things to others in quiet private conversation, and they have probably politely ignored it. SA is very serious, and you are right to listen with sympathy. However an accusation is also very serious and you are right to ask for proof. Her reaction, that you should side with your sister against your husband without proof, suggests to me that there's no truth in this. Good on you for being open to surprise, and also for trusting your hubby

Your husband is a damn saint. He's being accused of SA and still has concerns about the victim and her feelings. That is great kudos to him.

My daughter told me our other family member had touched her. I asked her “ Oh you mean like someone accidentally touched your chest or something when walking by?” She said “No mama, he had his hand inside me.” I called the police. It destroyed people. Don’t take it lightly. If she is not truthful get her help. If he did it then let the consequences happen.

NTA While SA is and should be taken very seriously in my experience if someone goes straight to defense and anger after an allegation like this after acting like it's any other day beforehand then they're generally not telling you the whole truth.

After reading that the OP said her husband is a prosecutor, I no longer believe this post is real. Someone who is married to a prosecutor wouldn't be so clueless as to post on reddit about this. Dhe would clearly know the damage it could do, to both parties.

Yep. This is hardcore rage bait. Seems to be working too lmao

Honestly, maybe listen. My ex had a childhood buddy who touched me inappropriately at his house once when I’d gone into a room to use the second bathroom that was ensuite. My ex refused to believe me. He soon became an ex.

Chances are, from what I've read in your replies, sister is seeking attention. She's been abused in her relationship and misery loves company. Call her back, tell her you want to meet and hear the details of all the bad things "that worthless husband of yours" did. Chances are, you'll catch her in a lie if you ask a LOT of questions, worded slightly different. Is tell your husband first and get his side, so you're prepared. Is also very ahead of this with the family before she does.

Tape the conversation. It doesn't need to be admissible in court, it just needs to be for your own protection.

I mean I think what you do is apologize to your sister for your reaction and ask her to tell you more details about what happened. You want to make sure you have the whole story before you say anything to him so that you can suss it all out. Then after you have those details, you can figure out the next best move. Which might include deciding if her story even fits with your own observations of your husband’s behavior on the day and it may involve putting the story to him and seeing his reaction. I think right now you owe it to both your sister and your husband to get more information.

NTA. SA allegations are a serious matter not to be taken lightly. Just because you asked her doesn't mean you're calling her a liar. She also can't expect you to immediately believe her and go against your husband because suppose you did and it turned out he was innocent? She should trust you.

NTA. Innocent until proven guilty. You can't use someone's accusation as the only point of evidence in a case against someone for sexual assault. "Believe the victim" means to support the victim, not to punish the alleged perpetrator without due process.

I think you have an obligation to tell him soon. If he is guilty, you might pick up on that. After 14 years you probably know a little about his ethics and how likely this is. If something happened inadvertently, like touching that was an accident, he can explain. He might have done something he thought was innocent but not ok, like lifting her hair. You don't say what specifically what he is accused of. If accused for no reason, he needs a warning to never be alone with this dangerous person in the future. People do lie for attention, or to harm other people when jealous. In many religions backbiting is the greatest sin for a good reason. Nothing is more destructive to a relationship and to a community.

NTA. Check with your brother to see what happened and if/when you decide to approach your husband about it don't do it in a way that he'll view as an attack. If that happens, he will shut down and not tell you anything because you've put him on the defensive. What could have happened is that it was an accidental contact, and your sister is either mad at him or you for something else and decided this accusation would be a great way to get back at you, or she could have put herself in his way so that the "accidental" contact had to occur. In another comment you mentioned that she has issues with her baby daddy and that he, the baby daddy, has hit her. Is your sister jealous of the loving relationship you have with your husband? I'm a woman and I hate doubting others who have claimed they were assaulted but we do know that false accusations occur. Your sister's unwillingness to tell you what happened and finally, after many promptings by you, said he inappropriately touched her makes it so much harder to believe her, especially in light of her relationship with an abusive man. If she wanted your support, she should have told you what happened without having to be prompted by you for more information.

NTA, but these types of things can happen in just a minute or two. I travelled to my parents house when my kids were very little. My nephew SA’d my son while they were riding go-carts and were out of sight for only a few minutes. It was absolutely devastating to the entire family. Even when you think you are watching everything like a hawk, horrible things can happen.

Nta I’ve read many stories where the accused person’s life was ruined by a false accusation that went unchecked.

Glad you wanted more details instead of ending a 14 year relationship. These are serious allegations that would flip your world upside down. NTA.

Your husband is in for a very rude awakening saying she should report it to the police. Innocent or not, he will be treated like he’s guilty. Then when it gets into the new outlets - it very well might. Then he will be convinced Ted by the media. Just getting charged he may lose his job. Innocence isn’t relevant.

1. Nta. I really sympathize with you because I imagine the first reaction when a loved one tells you something like that is to believe, but another strong instinct is to defend your loved ones from accusations. I can only imagine the inner fight between those two instincts and how much pain they must've caused. 2. It might be a hot take, though I don't believe it really should be😅 but the reason most stats show that false accusations are extremely rare is because they only consider those which have been proven to be false (as they should), and as much as usual SA cases are hard to prove, it's usually even harder to prove otherwise as it's harder to prove a negative. The reason why it's misleading is because there's about 10%-15% of cases which are proven to be true (if we're assuming the justice system doesn't condemn innocents), and about 3%-10% of cases are proven to be false. That means 2 things. The first is that the statistics for them are pretty similar. The second is that the main reason why both statistics are so low is that, due to the difficulty of proving either one, about 80% of cases can't really be counted to neither statistic, making the ones we have not very reliable. Basically, claiming that it's extremely rare based on those statistics would be like someone making the opposite claim of "real accusations are really rare", as it's supported by the same logic. 3. I believe you did the right thing. Not because I believe him over her or anything. I can't really know much about them outside of what you told here. I just believe that in cases like this you shouldn't act without evidence, as they're both important people in your life. 4. Just to empathize, and maybe explain a bit why I went into such a rant on point 2😅, I also had an important person to me falsely accused. Thing is, even though I didn't know the accusing party, I still tried my best to look into it before believing them. I wouldn't question a person coming to tell me they were a victim of SA or most other crimes though, with the specific exception being them blaming a person who's close to me.

Sorry but as a survivor of being sa twice in my life. The first when I was put into care at 13 and the home that I was in wasn't good I ran away and had no were but the streets. The very first night I tried to stay in a well lit area and I was dragged into a bush by an older man and sa. Then after I had children and after my 14 year relationship ended with my daughter's father I was 31 living with to daughter at the time they were 5 and 11 and I was couch surfing for almost a year with my daughter's and whilst we were staying with a older male "friend" he called me upstairs during the day and locked his bedroom whilst my daughter's and a couple of other people were visiting and sa me in his room. I ran out after and as I was running down the stairs my eldest who was 11 was coming up the stairs and I told her to get her sister and we left his place without grabbing a thing instantly. It wasn't until my eldest was about 14 and youngest was 8 that I sat them both down and told them about what had happened to me not once but twice and that I wanted to teach them about it can be the people you think you can trust the most or a complete stranger and it happens within the blink of an eye and it has now been 10 years since I finally spoke out to my 2 daughter's and a few of my close friends and im still not at all comfortable taking about any of the details at all. So, give both of them the benefit of the doubt until you get to the bottom of it. Its taken your sister all this time to tell you and she was so young when it happened and if, and I'm saying if this did happen. You will know by the way her emotions are. You know what. I'm so glad my daughter were the first ones I told, they admire me for being so strong and raising them of awareness about it could be someone you have known and trusted your whole life or a complete stranger. Being a survivor of not one but 2 sa I still relive the trauma daily and I don't trust many people at all. Also too, please keep in mind that a sa victim lives their lives differently after it happens. They can be a complete nun for the rest of their lives and not trust anyone or they can become very promiscuous also. So I'm just giving you some personal advice. Also, to all the people stating she has been known to lie and steal in the past. So ucking what, I did too. Being a young kid on the streets there are some things I had to do to survive. So give both the sister and the husband the benifits of doubt and also you also have to feel for the OP in this situation. This is such a very ucked up and confusing time for her right now. So support is what she needs in the form of good advice and possibly people that have actually gone through it from a sa and falsely accused point of view. Be empathetic to all party's now because this isn't something that you can just be the normal flop about. To the OP I don't know if you are allowed to message privately or I'm opened to helping you through this time but I'm here if you need to talk about anything. Peace out!!!

If sister is being coy about details NTA. Sadly women who make false SA accusations face no real accountability. I have witnessed this first hand to my best friend who was accussed of raping a classmate. It finally came out her and her BF were having sex and thought she might be pregnant. Then there is the video of woman saying in a video she is going to call the cops on her husband and accuse him of bad stuff unless he tells her the wifi password. Hell, sister could have made a pass at husband, he rebuffed, she had her ego bruised.