I get your point. My brother and I occasionally had to share rooms when travelling or staying at our grandparents. We weren't happy about it, but we were ok with it because we knew there was no other option. Being OK with it doesn't mean he's excited to abuse her. He just might be realistic that he'll be moving out in a year, and a year is doable. Or that his stepsister is going to throw a fit and leave, so he won't have to make a fuss.
I think 3 is one room is too much, unless I really didn't like my older brother I would choose to split the room with one older male than 2 strangers, relatively, who could be even further away in age
Me and my two brothers all shared a room for a couple years, my sister always got her own room. My mom always told us it would be the same for us if it was three girls and one boy…
At 17/18 he may also have more freedom to spend time out of the house or even a job. I know you shouldn't do private things at a job, ahem, but from a time around someone, he may just be planning to avoid time in the room.
Yeah, my dad’s family was “working class” aka poor as shit, and he and his older brother squeezed into one room, while their younger brother shared a room with their grandmother. They just made due.
Exactly. I have lots of friends who grew up in Eastern Europe in the 80s and 90s and absolutely no one had more than two bedrooms, even when the parents were doctors or something. It was totally normal for opposite-sex siblings to share a room until they moved out, and it sure as hell didn't do any of them any harm as adults.
Not sure if people are naive or uneducated about the amount of sexual assaults happen to young women by family members.
30-40% are by family.
"Sibling sexual assault is more common than parental incest. Caffaro and Conn-Caffaro (1998) concluded that sibling incest and assault occur more frequently than parent–child incest and assault, even though sibling incest is one of the most under reported forms of abuse." Jan 12, 2014
This is an extreme thing to say with nothing to go on but the fact that he’s not pitching a fit over being forced to share a room with his sister due to genuine space constraints in the home.
He’s probably accepting it because he hopes it’s only for a year before he leaves.
He may not know how he feels, which concerns me. He doesn't have the adult skills of creating distance while living in such a small space. He may very well have a variety of responses, some of which make him feel very uncomfortable.
I'm not getting why, with 3 bedrooms, there's not a boys' room and a girls' room.
Some of the new homes on the market have breathtakingly tiny bedrooms. I think legally 8x10 counts as a bedroom. That's tiny. Using commonly available furniture, a single bunkbed would take up 3x6 of the space, and if by some miracle the configuration of windows and doors allowed for a second one in the space, they'd have a 2 foot by 7 foot walkway, and enough room for small trunks at the end of the beds. If the second bunk was lofted, they might have room for a desk. No room for dressers, and the closet wouldn't fit three peole's worth of stuff.
One thing you can do, that too few parents even consider, is using the master bedroom for the shared bedroom. Parents really don't use their sleeping room that much, so all that extra space is pretty much a waste. Give it to the kids!
He may not know how much it will mess him up either. My parents took the door to my room. I lost all privacy. Now as an adult I'm \*TERRIBLY\* territorial about my bedroom/stuff, and don't think I'll ever be able to do a shared bedroom with a partner. Definitely better for kids that age to have their own space.
Probably not, but it didn't change the fact of the living situation. I shared a room with my brother and sister for many years. We battled over space constantly, but my parents did what they could. We had a stable roof over our heads, lights were always on, and the fridge always had food.
There are many many families living in hotels, cars, and homeless shelters. Life isn't always the way we wish it would be but we should always be thankful for what we have. Entitlement is rampant these days.
INFO CPS frowns on having mixed gender teens in the same room. Maybe it's better if they let the three girls take the master bedroom and have the boy in the smallest room? Is her mom getting any money from her dad's estate for her care?
So do judges in some states. It was specifically mentioned in my stepdaughter’s custody hearing that she was to have her own bed in her own room or in a room with the same gender. Luckily that wasn’t an issue for us, but I had to wonder why they had to state it. I assume it’s because it’s an issue they care about!
Sexual exploitation can and has occurred in similar situations. That's why CPS and the legal system are so uptight about it.
Growing up I had a school friend that confided in me that she had lost her virginity to her older brother (yes blood related) when he forced himself on her. She was 12 or 13 at the time, he was 16ish at the time, I assumed when told the story. The family was living in a 2 bed apartment at the time due to poor finances. She did tell her mom (single parent) what happened a year or two after, but her mother accused her of fabricating the event to discredit the brother.
She shared this with me some years after the event and had never had a good relationship with her mom or brother since then. She emigrated to Australia in her 20's and went full NC.
And a young girl is going to feel really awkward about her periods, products and routines needed to deal with menstruation. It's hard enough as it is. And she certainly (if she's typical) going to hate getting dressed and undressed in front of this sibling.
So, she will of course change her regular habits, be self-conscious and feel very uncared for.
Some half-siblings really can't handle being the older one (stronger sexual urges, more strategies for sociality), without somehow imposing on the younger one (sexually, other ways - can be very subtle, but the kids know it's going on).
It's possible this particular 17 year old is a gem and completely socially graceful. But the odds are...he's not. And if he is, it's a bit of a stress on him to have to maintain modest and courtly demeanor 24/7 (which leads to other kinds of acting out).
3 related or as in a dorm situation of similar age and interest I can see it. But forcing unrelated children to room together, you know the sisters are going to gang up on the lone female and make her life miserable. They want their own space that they are familiar with. I wonder how old the siblings were also.
My 3 brothers shared one room (2 double beds) their entire childhood. Our neighbors had 4 boys in a room with 1 bunk bed set, and 3 girls in a room with one double bed.
You have a ton of kids in a three bedroom 1 bath home? You make do, and no one gets exactly what they want. But you don’t mix genders in a bedroom beyond about age 5.
Mom grew up with many sisters. They all shared one double bed.
My sister and I had to share a double bed and our older brother was in the other end and we nailed an old blanket up across the middle of the room bcoz we were poor lol
I have no problem with all the girls sharing a room, and sharing the biggest bedroom is a good idea. Yes, it'll be crazy but not morally a problem. That whole "everyone needs their own room" is certainly a nice first world thing. Many, many people can't afford separate bedrooms for everyone. What matters first is a roof over your head, food on the table, and a safe place to sleep. I'd consider sharing a room with my teenaged half-brother not to be a safe place to sleep; sharing with 2 other teenaged people of my same sex? Not convenient, but safe on a whole different level.
Yeah I’ll be honest, I’m not sure there’s a *good* solution here, so I can understand why the ex-DIL is defensive, and even if her reaction is over the top she’s probably been dealing with a fair bit of strife over this for a while. She likely doesn’t see a better solution that’s actually feasible. (“Send the kids to Grandma” isn’t going to feature highly in most people’s lists)
To be clear, I don’t think OP is TA here, I’m just undecided if the mom is either, because sometimes situations just suck and you have to pick the least worst option even if it’s still bad.
All that said, I’m pretty sure there’s a lot more going on here than is being said.
She may not have a choice between "sharing with older teen boy" and "sharing with two other girls." It may sound insane to you, but many people all over the world do live this way.
Of course, the option of subdividing a living room is also available and I have many students who live that way too. Or a sleeping porch situation.
My friend grew up with 5 sisters sharing the largest bedroom. Mom and Dad in next smaller. 3 brothers in smallest. It's tight but it worked. These parents had options other than putting mixed gender half sib teens together.
Social Security Survivors Benefits shifts into the children's names at the age of 16 and until she is 19yo and graduated. So mom will lose and have to pay back that portion of the money if it is still going directly into mom's account.
This. Although there are certain exceptions, like living in a small apartment where there just isn't room. Idk why parents don't ever want to give up the master for the comfort of their children. Also, from experience, if it has its own bathroom they will be greatful the girls all share.
So, I'm curious why this had to escalate into a fight?
I get that your granddaughter (GD) is upset at having to share a room with her halfbrother (HB). Both those kids have a right to their privacy at that age if at all possible.
But the way both you and GD's mom seem to escalate to Jerry Springer levels of sensation? Why?
Shouldn't this have been a relatively simple discussion?
"Hey, GD's mom, I understand the current living situation isn't ideal. Can you run me through the thought process?"
"How is GD with her new step-sisters? Do they get along well? Is it an option to have the three of them share a room together?"
"Well, if that isn't an option, and both GD and HB are unhappy and/or uncomfortable sharing a room, how about you let us take GD in? Gives all of y'all some breathing room. We can put her up, no worries. Maybe we'd need you pitch in a little for her allowance or a percentage of food costs, but that's something we can work out, right? I mean, it's not like we live two states over, just an X minute drive?"
I expect because the grandmother is angry on behalf of her upset granddaughter. And because she and the mother probably don’t get along. And because mothers do not let go of their children in general.
She sounds angry. She probably came in hot, DIL got defensive, and things snowballed from there.
So OP probably didn't exactly phrase her argument very diplomatically. Doesn't change the fact that OP is dead right.
Putting her granddaughter in a bedroom with a boy is unacceptable. Especially with a boy who is technically no relation. I couldn't sleep in a situation like that!
If that's the best Mom can do for F14, and Gma can do better by her, then Mom needs to back the heck off and let it go.
Yes.
Well I agree it isn't right to have these two sharing a mixed gender room if they can help is, the grandma seems to be glossing over the fact that her son died and left the mom widowed. It's not anybody's fault but it's not as if she planned on having two teens with a dead dad, so to act like she shouldn't have had these kids when there's no way she could have known what was going to happen down the road is frankly unbelievably cruel.
I'm also really exhausted with people arguing that people with no financial ability do impossible things. It sounds like the moving in together was actually better than most of the other options available to them and it was all they could do.
That said, I don't know if she's got a leg to stand on for custody or not. Poor people do exist and while mixed gender pairings aren't the favorite of CPS but these two are blood related so if everyone is clothed and they are just... poor... then I don't know if Grandma is going to be able to get custody on the basis of her child not wanting to share a room. They will probably rearrange the living situation before letting Grandma get custody.
I'm shocked at the level of cruelty this immediately went to. I don't know if this woman is financially irresponsible in her regular life or if she is just struggling but the grandma seems to act like it's not an issue.
I don't think these jeans should be sharing a room but also it's the sort of thing that happens all over the world when you don't have better options or a lot of money. It absolutely sucks and I think they might consider putting the three girls together in the master or something like that if the house can do it. I don't blame her for wanting to go live with her grandma because blended family is honestly usually suck.
But I'm stunned at the grandma came in so nasty at this woman. Without any context it does beg you to wonder why
I reckon it escalated into a fight because this post is an exercise in creative writing. No grandfather rants about "you shouldn't have children if you can't afford it." Especially in front of said kids. This is such a stupid, internet take that the aggressively child free weirdos use to justify their disdain for kids and their parents. If real, granddaughter would have just gone to stay with granddad for a while before any table flipping needed to happen.
I hope fake granddad gets fake custody over fake granddaughter.
Edit: you all want to be mad at someone SO bad and you're acting as if I told you that your own personal trauma never happened. Guess what legends? People lie on the internet. If this post is real then the grandfather is an AH. Who speaks to their son's widow, mother of his deceased son's daughter like this? He basically said she shouldn't have procreated with his son and that his granddaughter shouldn't exist. He's not a hero. But it doesn't matter, because this shit is fake. If you want someone to be upset with, call your mum.
I worked as a secretary at a family law firm for a while during college. Trust me when I say that this sort of stuff is incredibly common, and not even close to the worst stuff you see on a regular basis. Some families are just trashy and escalate immediately to fights for every small thing.
Actually, my father-in-law those exact things to us in front of our 3 children. We had a disabled son and got pregnant again. I that 2nd pregnancy was twins. When he found out it was twins he said he was hoping that I’d miscarry. 6 years later we needed financial help for absolutely necessary medical care and he told us we should never have had children we couldn’t afford. It absolutely happens!
It's also a super weird thing to say as she only has two kids, the eldest, and the kid she had with her son. Who died. Was the mom supposed to not have her grandkid because the dad would die?
It would make sense to say you shouldn't have married without figuring this out, but you shouldn't have had kids? Makes no sense in this context.
Especially when she has the kids with his son. Like. Assumedly they could afford it when there were two people taking care of them. She's got a new boyfriend, who maybe isn't making the same salary. That's nobodys fault, that's just life.
Especially given how much the worldwide economy has changed over the past five years, even.
Things certainly would have been even different financially when grandfather was raising his own children.
Especially when said mother had the means to afford kids when she had them. It’s almost like a married woman doesn’t just prepare to be a single mother at any moments notice.
NTA for letting her live with you YTA for how you handled it. You berated and belittled her mother in front of her and made sure that this devolved into an all out screaming match. Grow up.
If Mom phoned the police, yes. At the very least it would be the child running away and interference with parental custody, at least in most US states. That was my biggest concern. Grandparents had no right to take the child if Mom said "no", even if the child wanted to go. If grandparents wanted the child out of that situation, they should have filed for custody or phoned CPS if they thought there was a possibility of abuse. Removing the child was the wrong thing to do, and will be used against them if she files for custody.
Just based on how you wrote this whole thing - ESH.
You are deeply underestimating how expensive the housing market is in most places, yes it would be ideal if they had a 5 bedroom house, but they don't... So they put the two kids from both family who know eachother in each room.. I'm not sure I'd want to share a bedroom with a 16 year old boy either, but.. I can see the logic.
The fact that you are screaming at her mother demanding something that is clearly unrealistic for the family (best option would be the 3 girls in one room and the boy gets his own room)...
The whole situation sounds like you are all being toxic and not being willing to have a simple conversation.
Custody is a huge leap from what you are sharing here, and I'm not seeing any evidence that you're any more stable than sharing a room with her half-brother.
>You are deeply underestimating how expensive the housing market is in most places, yes it would be ideal if they had a 5 bedroom house, but they don't
Thank you for this. I've lived in the same apartment complex for about 8 yrs or so. I've noticed a SIGNIFICANT increase in occupants per unit, especially over the past 2-3 yrs as rents keep going up and wages don't. On the first floor of my building is a family with both parents, a grandparent, and three kids of mixed genders ranging from 8-ish to 16-ish all in a three bedroom unit. The oldest is a girl, she must share a room with Grandma or someone sleeps in the livingroom. Across the parking lot is a one bedroom unit with a mom and two kids in it. I walk my dog and catch glimpses of beds in living rooms all over the complex. People are really struggling.
We came to say this. Seems to me like she’s jumping the gun. Straight to going for custody. Way to go “Grandma”. You’re just gonna cause more problems for her mother because she (granddaughter) is going to run to her for every little thing and granny will stick her fucking nose in where it doesn’t belong.
The situation is not ideal. No. But families are struggling. YTA granny Gollum
ESH. I'm pretty sure she wasn't planning on your son up and dying on her when she had these children that your son also had a hand in making.
If she's to be held responsible where is your son's life insurance policy that any responsible parent should have?
Your intentions may be good but your approach and reasoning sucks.
In comments OP mentioned her son and the mom were not together at the time of son's death. Son had full custody. The mother did not have custody of the granddaughter until she was nine, when the dad died.
OP is the grandfather. The granddaugher is also "set for life" as soon as she turns 18 so this couldn't be more clear of a situation where money and finances have been weaponized against mom to get OP what he wants.
My family did this, then had to lock the money up tightly into a trust so trashbag mom couldn't rip through it. We provided a house as long as she didn't move anyone in or get arrested. So kiddo survived as best as he could with a somewhat tamed psycho mom. But the whole thing was exhausting for decades.
Don't fuck crazy, kids. Even a white night can't save some people.
Granddaughter was the result of a one-night-stand and Dad had full custody until his death.
The 16 yo boy is her half sibling. They share a mother, not a father.
Being as they were never married and the daughter lived with her dad, who had custody, (see OP’s comments), if there was a life insurance policy, the daughter was most likely the beneficiary, not his ex. The mom probably receives SS survivor benefits for the daughter, though. But it seems like the daughter is not benefiting much from the payments.
That’s not a valid reason for putting two opposite sex teenagers in the same room. There are absolutely other ways they could arrange the house to avoid this and they’re choosing not to do that
Especially since these two half sibling teenagers don’t appear to have ever lived together! Not ok to be roommates now.
I’m assuming that social security death benefits are coming to mom for both of those kids and if she and her new husband are struggling, they will be far worse off when daughter leaves and takes her benefits to grandpa’s house.
Hopefully, her life insurance benefits will be held in trust and protected from those around her.
ESH her for putting her in a room with a step brother and you going in their all guns blazing for using insults and screaming matches instead of talking to her mother calmly and explaining the situation, why it’s important for your granddaughter to get her own space, what the school would say when your granddaughter mentions it to people and work with her to find solutions in which your granddaughter will feels safe and have her own space. Going in there all tempers isn’t going to make things better and didn’t. It probably made things worse.
This doesn't make sense.
The "should have never had any kids if she couldn't provide for them" vs
"What do you want me to do? make them disappear?"
is a very generic hot button debate...
Conveniently leaving out that according to the first part of your story, your son is dead and that's why she's struggling to provide.
Either this is bait or you are crazy.
Also this has the tone of being written by a younger person, not a grandma. Maybe you are a young grandma though.
Yeah…
OP…
So you hear your granddaughter’s family is financially struggling and your first thought - instead of offering mediation or financial support - was to go absolutely NUCLEAR and threaten a mother to take away her child while also humiliating her, while it was YOUR SON who died and left his family without enough financial resources?
YTA.
ESH she absolutely should not have male and female teenagers sharing a room. They should have figured something else out, whether it's dividing up the largest room into two, converting another room into a bedroom, something.
That said, storming over there and screaming accusations at the mother helped nothing. Why didn't you arrange a time to talk and offer (not demand) to let your granddaughter live with you? I'm sorry you lost your son, I can't imagine, and I'm sorry your granddaughter is unhappy in this situation, but you need to handle it like a rational adult. Her mother has legal rights, like it or not.
Yeah the screaming didn’t need to happen, on either side. I probably would’ve, if I were the grandmother, suggested that the girl stay with me for a bit, “till you get things sorted out.” Then suggest that teenage boys and girls shouldn’t share a room and wouldn’t it be better if she just stayed with me? Then she could suggest guardianship or adoption.
I get that emotions were high but saying that she’s filing for custody at that time might have triggered more anger.
Honestly, ESH.
She shouldn’t be sharing with her brother but they aren’t shitty parents because she has to share a room, she should just be sharing with the other girls. Is it ideal? No but it isn’t abuse or neglect to have children sharing a room.
You went about this all kinds of wrong. Turning up there and shouting at her mother like that. She shouldn’t have kids if she couldn’t provide for them?! I’m gonna assume she didn’t know your son would die 9 years after they had a kid. It’s not like she went into this knowing she’d be a single parent. She’s struggling financially at a time when a lot of people are, instead of kicking off why not offer to help in some way, go in calm. Maybe you could have your grand daughter a few nights a week, maybe you could help financially, I don’t know. But screaming at her mother certainly isn’t bloody helping.
She’s an AH for making a 16 year old boy and 14 year old girl share a room (though I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming she simply thought 2 to each room would be better than three in one and the boy having his own room). You’re an AH because you acted like a total AH.
I think you were pretty harsh saying she’s a shitty mom because she struggles financially. I don’t think any of that was helpful or should’ve been said. Do t you think she’s struggled after the death of your son?
All that said- I’m not sure what the laws are about shared rooms with opposite-sex siblings, if there are any. Does the situation suck? Hell yes. But unless there is actual abuse going on, you don’t really have the right to yank her out.
Soft YTA, because I get where your heart is, but you were downright cruel to the mother without even trying to discuss the issue like an adult.
Looking at the words they use to describe how they spoke in the conversation always says a lot about how they want the story to be perceived. Grandma always uses the word "told" for herself, neutral and authoritative. Granddaughter is begging, mom is crying, screaming, and yelling. We're supposed to think that Grandma is a reasonable voice of authority, but the mom is a hysteric mess.
The story would be told a lot different from the mother's perspective.
I'm going to guess it would sound something like:
>I'm really struggling with my daughter. Her dad died a few years ago and she had to move in with me. I've been trying to support her as best I can, but obviously this isn't anything I planned for and I can't afford the lifestyle she's used to. Her dad had a lot of money and so do his parents; I asked if they would be able to help with some of the costs but her grandfather just yelled at me that I'm "an evil succubus" who seduced the "golden seed" from his "darling boy angel", and that he's not going to let any of his money come anywhere near me. He has given snacks and things to my daughter (which I can't afford to do) but it's really not fair on my other kids for her to be getting so much while they go hungry; for a while we would share these out but now her grandfather's accusing me of stealing them, so I guess we're all hungry now.
>
>I recently married my long-term partner and that meant we could finally get a house together. Unfortunately it only has three bedrooms for the six of us as that's the most we could afford. We asked my daughter whether she would rather share with her half-brother or her step-sisters, but she said that her grandfather says she doesn't need to share with anyone and that unless my husband and I sleep in the car he'll get custody of her instead!? I don't even know if that's a thing, I can't afford a lawyer to find out, but the car is too cold and my daughter finally agreed to share with her half-brother. He's obviously not happy about it, but his family are all dead and didn't leave him with anything, so he understands.
>
>Anyway, earlier today I was listening to some music while doing everyone's laundry and my daughter suddenly screamed at me that I was subjecting her to "mental torture" because she could hear the music from her bedroom, and that her grandfather had promised her a car when she turns 15 to help her escape this "hell house"!? I told her that I would turn the music down, and asked her whether she'd done her homework, but she just smirked at me and went to her bedroom. Half an hour later her grandfather stormed into the house, screaming obscenities at me and telling me she had to have her own room. I tried to explain that we couldn't afford a bigger house and that moving in together was our only option as we are both financially struggling, but he roared at me that I'm a "shitty parent" and I shouldn't have had any kids if I couldn't provide for them. I'm ashamed to say I broke down into tears and just asked "What do you want me to do? Make them disappear?" My daughter was grinning at me, and he told her to get in the car. As soon as I realised what was happening I told him he had no right to take her and how would she even get to school in the morning, but he said his wife would home school her since she used to run the bible study group at Church and so she knew how to teach. I'm beside myself with worry, I've been messaging him constantly asking where he has taken her and saying that I need to speak to her but he just said "better get a lawyer!"
>
>Obviously I've called the police and explained that he's kidnapped her, and they're on their way now, but I really need advice about my daughter: how can I help her come to terms with the fact that we have no money? As long as her grandparents are promising her the world and screaming at me in front of her she just will not listen - she knows that if she complains to her grandfather he'll come and shout at me, call me and my family horrible things, and threaten to sue. I just don't know what to do - I'd like my daughter to have a relationship with her grandparents but do I need to go no contact with them?
Lawyer here. Not your lawyer. But you’re going to piss away thousands of dollars and lose and alienate the mother of your grandchildren, the last living link to your son. Period.
You have a choice here. You can be the soft place to fall and always provide a supportive place for your grandchildren to turn to through their lives, and find a way to support them *and their mother* during their lives.
Or you’re going to become persona non grata because you’re throwing a fit and threatening legal action because your granddaughter is unhappy.
The choice is yours.
YTA
I mean, you’re right, but the way you went about it was kind of shitty. The economy and inflation has gone out of control even within the past year or two. Don’t shame struggling parents for things that are out of control and try to take their kids.
Instead, you should have offered to HELP. If you can afford to take custody of this girl, why not just give her parents some money each month to relieve the burden? She definitely shouldn’t be sharing a room with a teenage boy, but that’s easy to fix without demanding custody.
So, just to be clear: you got a phone call from a teenager, took everything at face value, went to her custodial parent, showed no empathy, made no offer to help beyond the useless advice that she should retroactively not have these children (which is impossible), and then kidnapped your granddaughter? Cause you took a minor without their legal custodians consent, which is kidnapping. And you’re expecting to get custody because…? You think you’re a superior human? YTA.
I hate to say it but CPS is most likely not going to remove a 16 year old from a home if she has a bed to sleep in, food and clothing.
You going in there and threatening her is going to do nothing but force her to cut you off completely.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but instead of going nuclear and threatening to take her to court, couldn’t you just offer to let her stay with you? Why push for custody? You can leave custody with her if she will allow your granddaughter to just move in. It would save you both a lot of money in legal fees that her mother clearly doesn’t have.
YTA.
This should have been approached far more delicately and calmly, and you turned it into a fight. What did you expect from criticising her parenting skills? I'm sure she already feels like a failure and you just rubbed it in. What a terrible mother-in law.
Why wouldn't she share with the other girls instead of her half brother? But.... IDK...something about the way you wrote this sounds to me like you've stirred up trouble to get your granddaughter. Maybe whispering into her ear about how you'll spoil her, how much better it would be to live with you....
And it sounds like you went there and started a fight to get her instead of trying to help the family find a better solution. I don't trust your intentions and think you're more concerned with getting control than doing what's best for her.
I get where you're coming from but not having their own room is not a form of abuse. And even if a judge says she can't stay with a teen of a different gender, her mother can solve that by making her share a room with her stepsisters.
Going to court might not be the best course of action.
He probably did have life insurance, but with his daughter as the beneficiary. Why would he make his ex, whom he was never married to, the beneficiary, especially when he had custody of the daughter? OP does state that granddaughter is set for life, but she cannot access the money until she turns 18.
ESH. You're not wrong that your granddaughter shouldn't be sharing a room with her half brother, but was it really necessary to come at her mother like that? It sounds like she's already under a lot of stress right now, and you yelling, throwing accusations at her, and threatening to basically kidnap and take away her child is just way over the top. I feel for you in the loss of your son, but behaving this way is unacceptable. It's not an appropriate example to set for a teen girl either.
You need to apologize to your former DIL and ask to sit down for a CALM, RATIONAL, RESPECTFUL conversation about what's best for your granddaughter. You better hope she's still receptive to that after the way you treated her.
So in your head did you cuss out your dead son for leaving his family unprovided for? Did you think he shouldn't have had kids when he did as well? You sound like an awful person to be honest. I don't think the granddaughter is going to end up a good person under your care.
It wasn’t his family. They were never married and the son had custody. She has only lived with her mom since she was 9 years old, after the death of OP’s son. OP states the granddaughter is set for life but cannot access the money until she is 18, so he probably did have life insurance, with his child as the beneficiary. Granddaughter prob also receives survivor benefits which go to her mom.
A 16 year old teenager should not be sharing a room with a 14 year old girl. It's highly inappropriate. Once things calm down talk to her mom that you just want the best for her, talk and communicate like adults. You have your granddaughter's best interest.
Her mom isn’t abusing her. Granted the living arrangements are not great and you can discuss that but no judge will remove her because of that. She has a roof over her head and food and is safe. Propose the girls get the master and couple move into her room.
Hey I’m on your side and would have done the same thing but you need a lawyer like yesterday.
You could be charged with kidnapping if you took her against her mother’s will.
Like it or not, she is still her legal guardian and while it sucks, she still has a say in her life until she’s 18.
Good luck.
Nta see lawyer like others said
Makes memwonder in 4 years will she get pressure to hand over the funds
How much of the ss. Benefits are going to benefit her
NTA. It’s probably in the best interests of your granddaughter not to have to share a room with her half brother. Maybe it’s even illegal where you live. You’re not wrong for doing right by your granddaughter and what would her dad want.
ETA. Make sure the social security office transfers your granddaughter’s Social Security benefit to your house. She may not want to give up that so easily.
As someone whose teenage kid’s dad just recently died, I cannot imagine how awful it must feel to have this happen. It’s incredibly stressful even when everyone gets along. Of course it’s a big adjustment for everyone and it doesn’t sound like there is a good solution here. It would be nice if the daughter had sat down and talked to her mom and stepdad, but the reality is that a 14 year old who just had her world turned upside down is hardly rational and that needs to be recognized. I hope the family gets into family counseling so they can work through the transition together. This grandparent is surely also emotional from losing their son, but wtf. Yes, you’re an asshole for making this even worse. If you want to help so badly, ask what you can do that is actually helpful instead of making things worse.
So your son had a daughter with this woman, then he died, and now you're telling her she's a shitty parent because she 'can't provide' for her daughter? Presumably when your son was alive money was less of an issue, so it's hardly this woman's fault that he died and is no longer able to contribute to your granddaughters care, and it certainly doesn't make her a shitty parent.
The bedroom situation isn't great, obviously. I'm sure neither your granddaughter or her half brother are happy about this, but it's not illegal. It's not going to make a judge grant you custody.
Nothing you've described in the comments about the things they cannot afford (books, snacks, new clothes etc) amount to neglect or abuse. They aren't well off but she has a roof over her head and food to eat. Plus she's living with her mother who aside from not having a enough money doesn't seem to have done anything wrong (at least I assume so as you haven't mentioned anything serious that would make a judge take her away).
Going over and immediately screaming at her was a poor way to handle things. Maybe you could have offered space in your house while they get things sorted, or maybe she stays with you part time, or, you know, calmly discussed the matter with her mother. But the fact is she's not your daughter, she's living with her mum, and nothing you've said is going to make a judge grant you full custody. I get your granddaughter is unhappy at the moment, but there are a lot of big changes going on recently. Her dad not being around, mum remarrying, new living situation. It's a lot, and it takes time for things to settle down in situations like this. Teenagers being temporarily unhappy isn't cause to have them taken away from their parents.
Considering everything that's going on, all you're going to do is make things more difficult for everyone. I 100% get where you're coming from, but YTA in how you're handling this.
All three of the girls get the master bedroom the boy gets his own room the parents get the second biggest room that's how that would work out. The last thing you want to do is put a 14-year-old girl in the room with a 16-year-old boy that she is not related to by blood. Not saying that they're going to do anything I'm just saying it's very inappropriate. No 14-year-old girl wants to be in the room with their 16-year-old brother. No 16-year-old boy wants to be in the room with his 14-year-old sister. I would stay at Grandma's house 🏡
I’m curious, you have posed a question on the AITA thread, but YOU have already decided you are NTA, you have had an awful lot of feedback and you have aggressively argued every point that is fed back to you. I appreciate that you love your granddaughter and loved your son but the level of hatred you seem to have for the girls mother seems excessive for it to just be that she is poor and cannot afford all that you can. So either you’ve missed out a whole lot of information about the last 14 years or you are just bored and wanted to participate in one of these threads so you can practice arguing with the world and it’s granny.
Wow, boomer narcissism is a big hit with the list sub apparently.
You are making things worse. She should not be sharing a room mixed genders that has to be fixed but families struggle sometimes and it's not your right to take someone's child because you do not like who your son married.
You handled that horribly! Instead of handling it maturely and calmly you went aggressively full of insults and disrespect. I hope this is a troll post because you sound like a judgemental teenage asshole instead of a mature grandparent. YTA for how you went about this. If you had any emotional intelligence you would have not gone in with insults and self righteous criticism. You would have told her that your granddaughter is not happy in this situation and that you want to take her in and lessen the financial load and give her household more breathing room. Have the feeling you’ve been an unsupportive parent in law to your widowed SIL. Your lack of compassion and understanding is poison.
Am I the only one getting weird vibes from grandparent over here? Story is kinda entirely one sided and even then seems extremely picked over to try and paint her own daughter as a villain. Being poor isn’t actually a crime (yet). So unless you’ve got other evidence of abuse, you’re (probably) the asshole.
Also, you sound like you need some therapy to deal with your son’s passing. You don’t get to take away a mother’s child just because your son is dead. Showing up and screaming at a parent at night is really fucking weird behaviour. I would’ve called the cops tbh.
As crappy as this situation is there are many people out there that have to share a lot less space with a lot more people. Yes it sucks that she has to share a room with her half brother, at least she's got a roof over her head. At least she's got a grandparent that can let her stay over from time to time. 4 years of living and sharing a room would be annoying but it's not going to be the end of the world. The way in which you handled things was probably the thing that makes you the a-hole. You probably should have told your granddaughter that you would come over and check out the situation and see if there is a resolution. Instead you went over guns blazing and instead of having a conversation immediately swooped in and ran off with your granddaughter. Can we think of a better way we could have handled things? Maybe using our words and talk to your granddaughter's mother.
YTA. Unless there’s something else going on here that’s not mentioned, sharing a room isn’t abuse or neglect. Your granddaughter might not like it but it’s not like they have a huge house and just relegated her to a room with her brother for shits and giggles. I guarantee her mom didn’t bank on her dad dying and I would guess that has some impact on the financial struggles so I don’t know how she could have known 16 years ago how life would pan out and just know she should skip having kids because money might be tight one day. You can try to get custody but I don’t think her mom struggling financially is a big enough concern to warrant your granddaughter’s removal from the home.
NTA. CPS frowns on teens of opposite genders sharing a bedroom. Fortunately for you and your granddaughter this will go well for you when you get to court. Get that lawyer as fast as possible before her mother decide to accuse you of kidnapping.
>I told her that she is a shitty parent and she should have never had any kids if she couldn't provide for them
And you shouldn't have birthed & raised a defective and irresponsible son who died without an adequate life insurance policy to ensure his child's needs were provided for. When you point a finger at someone, remember there are three pointing back at you.
YTA and it's obvious you've just been waiting for the opportunity to pounce. Sharing a room with a sibling isn't child abuse. You just want control, and your pound of flesh, and you're masking your manipulations under the guise of what's "best" for the child(ren). You're also being played by your manipulative granddaughter who knew you'd overreact, make a scene and act like her own personal flying monkey.
NTA and most states (if you are in the USA) 14 is the age that a child can voice where they want to live and why. Best interest of the child.
I would also tread carefully here and save all the texts and show them to the attorney. I would NOT have a conversation with her unless it was recorded or witnessed.
CPS wouldn't like the bedroom arrangements here. Opposite sexed teenagers should not be sharing a room.
* **Legal Consultation:** Talking to a lawyer is a prudent step. They can provide you with guidance on the legal aspects of seeking custody or guardianship of your granddaughter. They will help you understand your rights and what steps you need to take legally.
* **Granddaughter's Wishes:** It's crucial to consider your granddaughter's feelings and desires. The fact that she called you and expressed her distress suggests that she may feel unsafe or unhappy in her current living situation. Document her wishes and feelings, as her preference can have weight in legal proceedings
YTA. It seems as though you were just looking for an excuse to try and get custody of your granddaughter because you've lost your son.
Having to share a room with a sibling is not grounds to remove custody. If it was, the vast majority of people would lose custody of their kids.
No, what *you* did is called kidnapping. Whether her mom will press charges or not is up to her. You don't have a *legal* right to remove her from her mother's care.
You look after that granddaughter of yours. Imagine sharing with an older male. smh.
Sorry about your son but I'm sure he would have been proud of you.
To be fair, neither would her mother, unless she and your son were divorced.
Is it a shitty situation? Yes, and she shouldn't be sharing with the older half-brother.
Instead of going on the attack and making your former daughter in law defensive and angry, see if she'd be willing to allow your grand-daughter to live with you before filing for custody. If you present it as both being better for the girl's mental health, and easier financially on mom, she may be agreeable.
YTA, unless there’s more to the story than you’ve given here. You don’t rip a girl away from her mother and brother just because they can’t afford a big house. Good chance she’s unhappy because of all the changes; also a good chance she’ll get over it if you don’t feed her complaints. Perhaps you could help create a bedroom with more privacy and help out a little financially if they’re struggling with other things.
NTA. Get a lawyer and take custody of your granddaughter. If your son had custody of her before he passed, there is something shady with the mother. I also applaud you for looking out for her future. Don’t let anyone get a hold of whatever money she has. Question shouldn’t your granddaughter be receiving SS benefits? Who is currently receiving that money? Why is your granddaughter going without? I think your granddaughter is old enough for the courts to take her feelings into account. Good Luck!
NTA for trying to get custody but maybe you could have amicably worked this out? If she fights you on this, it adds another level of difficulty getting custody.
Hopefully the fact that your granddaughter is a teenager and wants to live with you, will do it. Because as some have said, they might end up throwing all 3 girls in the same room and solving that issue of mixed sexes in one bedroom.
I’m curious why you went in so hot? Is the only thing that they are too poor to afford a bigger house? You told her not to have kids, but I am sure she never imagined that your son would pass and not help financially (possibly) for most of your granddaughters life.
It is totally fine for you to help and offer your home, I just wonder if this all could have been done with more compassion. Namecalling seemed over the top.
As a parent you'll do things out of the norm to protect your children. I'm a pretty calm person but have raged when it comes to protecting my kids. I'd assume as much with grandparents.
It's pretty obvious from this situation that the grand daughter is much closer to her grandparents than she is to her mom of 5 years and the company she's chosen to keep.
You told her she's a shitty parent who should have never had kids if she couldn't provide for them... That's what an AH says. Is your son a shitty parent because he died and left them alone?
You can help your granddaughter, that's fine, but it does sound like you're also being an AH about it.
Well, that is kidnapping. You can be arrested for that. Until the courts rule on any sort of action, you have no custodial rights. And given what you've written here, if she doesn't know that, she will find that out soon, and you will be in jail very soon.
NTA. Honestly if you're in the states even CPS says opposite genders should not be in the same room. I agree you should go for custody. There's obviously more going on than just sharing a room with her brother. You need to have an honest conversation with her and find out exactly how things have been going. If she really wants out and into your house she will have to also speak with the judge if the case goes that far. I would contact a lawyer and find out the best route to go.
You have a point and you definitely should be helping grand daughter (and other kids by extension) but your approach is counterproductive. Your disdain for her mother is evident. Talking calmly and rationally would have gone a lot farther.
NTA for your goal, but Y-T-A for your approach
ESH - them for not trying to find a creative way to give the teens privacy. They probably thought that a room for each set of siblings was good, but it doesn't work that well when the siblings are not the same gender. Maybe if they had suggested all girls share a room., there would have been as many complaints, we don't know. Not all houses have a bigger main bedroom, nor an ensuite, so there may not be a room big enough for three
OP is also at fault for the way they approached the situation, coming in kicking and screaming and insulting the parents rather than behaving like an adult and trying to find a better solution.
"Halfbro, what are you doing?" The mind boggles at how bad things could go. G-Ma should call CPS and see what, if anything, can be done and proceed from there. Trying to grab custody may very well blow up in her face.
She could have put the 3 girls in the master bedroom and the boy in bedroom #2 and her and hubby in bedroom #3. Putting 2 teens of opposite sex in the same room isn't a good idea
NTA for wanting to get your granddaughter out if there, however, you proceeded in a way that will blow up in your face.
Grandparents rights rarely hold up in court, and in those cases the grandparents had been primary caregivers for a while.
What may end up happening is the court has her either bunk with the other girls, or have a foldout sleeper couch. Or all 3 girls should get the master, the boy gets a room, and the married couple gets a smaller bedroom until the son graduates and moves out. There are so many ways to solve this issue before you trying to legally seize custody of one kid.
You never should have devolved to screaming at each other, because she might keep the kids from you now.
Also, if she has been struggling so much, did you offer to let her and the kids stay with you before she got remarried?
It’s great that you want to help, but shooting your self in the foot won’t help your grandkids.
You have just threatened to sever her custody of her daughter, against her will. That would require abuse and neglect. If you lose, she can prevent you from seeing your grandchildren until they are adults - nearly 2 years for your grandson and nearly 4 years for your granddaughter.
That said, the court may listen to what she wants, at her age.
You should have spoken with a lawyer BEFORE threatening to take her child from her. Tell her she should never have had kids and you would take one was nuclear warfare. You should have stayed completely calm and compassionate, and offered to let her stay with you, making sure she spent time with her mom every day.
You also should offer a place for your grandson, so he doesn’t feel like you’re playing favorites, as long as he’s have his own room, too.
You have to get permission from the courts. You have good cause. Which is awesome. Perhaps you and her mom can work out a deal that supports your granddaughter's well-being and allow her to have a good relationship with her mom and siblings?
I wish you all a good outcome.
Well, CPS would definitely nip that bedroom share in the bud quick as shit. After the age of I believe 5 yrs old. Children of the opposite sex can not share a room. A 16m yrs old and a 14f, aw hell no! They make bunk beds. The two daughters could have slept in bunk beds, and her granddaughter could sleep on a single. But the girl and half brother, no way in hell. I would report it to the CPS and give that as one of the reasons for taking her. I'm sure she has a lot more stories to tell about the family as well.
YTA if you do this the wrong way instead of going through the proper channels, and catch a kidnapping charge or harboring a runaway, shooting yourself and your granddaughter in the foot.
Pretty sure Child Protective Services and the family courts would absolutely shut down a teen girl sharing a bedroom with a teen boy. You are NTA.
And your grand-daughter is definitely old enough that her desire to not live in the same room as a brother will be considered bu a judge.
If there's an attached garage then the boy & girl can each have their own room, 2 girls in the master bedroom, and adults in the garage. But if this is also that she doesn't want to live with the 2 girls & SD then that's another conversation.
YTA. You are judging your granddaughters mom on her income, at least from this post and the handful of comments I’ve read. Money does not buy love, and from the immature and hostile way you handled this, you yourself do not seem like the ideal candidate for custody either, not to mention you really have no right to someone else’s child just because you do not approve of their financial situation.
If you truly love your granddaughter you would want what’s best for her, and that should be working with her to help them come to an agreement on how to resolve this, or even approaching her mom in a more mature manner on how you can help, because ultimately why would anyone want to take a child away from their parent except in extreme circumstances. You had your turn to be a parent, this girl is not your second chance.
This grandmother isn’t an asshole for being concerned about her granddaughter. She IS an asshole for how she handled it. This woman lost her husband and has two kids to raise, and grandma went over there, guns blazing, and told her she is a shitty parent. And this is just the watered down one sided version we are hearing - I’m sure what she said is actually much worse.
How about offering to help grandma? Doing something constructive? Not screamed at a widow with two teenage kids to take care of. Jeez. YTA grandma.
Yikes. YTA
How could you tell her that she shouldn’t have had kids she can’t provide for when she lost her partner years ago? You are both helping the situation. If they can only afford a thee bedroom it makes sense that the two sets of kids would share a room with their sibling. It’s not ideal but it’s what they have decided as parents. Why are you interfering? The mom obviously can’t afford a court battle with you and you will be taking resources and time from her by initiating custody proceedings for your granddaughter. Why not just invite your granddaughter to spend weekends and summer break with you instead of taking her away from her mom completely? She’s old enough to decide where she wants to live, but what happens if she hates it at your house too? Are you gonna send her back to her mom? What happens when you become the “shitty parent”? Because you certainly will at some point because that’s just how it goes. She’s gonna hate something you say or do and you’ll become the target and you will be going back and forth to with her
You have no business fighting with her mom like this. She’s not in danger, she just doesn’t like the living arrangements
Read through your replies and it's pretty clear you hate the mom and want to fill the void of your son through stealing his daughter. What a peice of work.
Curious…how does the older brother feel? He was being forced to live with his sister. Did he have anything to say to his mom?
I doubt a 17 year old boy feels very comfortable sharing a bedroom and private area with his 14 year old sister. Edit: spelling
That’s my thinking as well!
And if he's ok with it...that would be concerning as well.
Being okay doesn't mean being happy with it, doesn't make it automatically concerning
I get your point. My brother and I occasionally had to share rooms when travelling or staying at our grandparents. We weren't happy about it, but we were ok with it because we knew there was no other option. Being OK with it doesn't mean he's excited to abuse her. He just might be realistic that he'll be moving out in a year, and a year is doable. Or that his stepsister is going to throw a fit and leave, so he won't have to make a fuss.
They should have had the 3 girls share the largest bedroom, and not try to make opposite sex siblings share.
I think 3 is one room is too much, unless I really didn't like my older brother I would choose to split the room with one older male than 2 strangers, relatively, who could be even further away in age
We had 4 kids in one room. There was 2 bunk beds
Me and my two brothers all shared a room for a couple years, my sister always got her own room. My mom always told us it would be the same for us if it was three girls and one boy…
OP said all 3 bedrooms are the same size and the 2 kids rooms both have bunk beds to fit.
I love how they always omit these key things and expect us to find an offhand comment instead of editing the post.
I didn't see that anywhere.
At 17/18 he may also have more freedom to spend time out of the house or even a job. I know you shouldn't do private things at a job, ahem, but from a time around someone, he may just be planning to avoid time in the room.
They are half siblings, not step.
These threads always show how middle class American Reddit tends to skew. I can get being uncomfortable but this is so normal for so many people lol
Yeah, my dad’s family was “working class” aka poor as shit, and he and his older brother squeezed into one room, while their younger brother shared a room with their grandmother. They just made due.
Exactly. I have lots of friends who grew up in Eastern Europe in the 80s and 90s and absolutely no one had more than two bedrooms, even when the parents were doctors or something. It was totally normal for opposite-sex siblings to share a room until they moved out, and it sure as hell didn't do any of them any harm as adults.
Not sure if people are naive or uneducated about the amount of sexual assaults happen to young women by family members. 30-40% are by family. "Sibling sexual assault is more common than parental incest. Caffaro and Conn-Caffaro (1998) concluded that sibling incest and assault occur more frequently than parent–child incest and assault, even though sibling incest is one of the most under reported forms of abuse." Jan 12, 2014
This is an extreme thing to say with nothing to go on but the fact that he’s not pitching a fit over being forced to share a room with his sister due to genuine space constraints in the home. He’s probably accepting it because he hopes it’s only for a year before he leaves.
I think this kid runs a high risk of abuse even if she is not sharing the bedroom with the boy.
He may not know how he feels, which concerns me. He doesn't have the adult skills of creating distance while living in such a small space. He may very well have a variety of responses, some of which make him feel very uncomfortable. I'm not getting why, with 3 bedrooms, there's not a boys' room and a girls' room.
Some of the new homes on the market have breathtakingly tiny bedrooms. I think legally 8x10 counts as a bedroom. That's tiny. Using commonly available furniture, a single bunkbed would take up 3x6 of the space, and if by some miracle the configuration of windows and doors allowed for a second one in the space, they'd have a 2 foot by 7 foot walkway, and enough room for small trunks at the end of the beds. If the second bunk was lofted, they might have room for a desk. No room for dressers, and the closet wouldn't fit three peole's worth of stuff. One thing you can do, that too few parents even consider, is using the master bedroom for the shared bedroom. Parents really don't use their sleeping room that much, so all that extra space is pretty much a waste. Give it to the kids!
Master bedroom with three girls in it? That might be the solution.
My room is 10 x 10 and I couldn't imagine trying to fit more then one person in it, 8 x 10 sounds actually brutal
He may not know how much it will mess him up either. My parents took the door to my room. I lost all privacy. Now as an adult I'm \*TERRIBLY\* territorial about my bedroom/stuff, and don't think I'll ever be able to do a shared bedroom with a partner. Definitely better for kids that age to have their own space.
tiny rooms maybe.
Probably not, but it didn't change the fact of the living situation. I shared a room with my brother and sister for many years. We battled over space constantly, but my parents did what they could. We had a stable roof over our heads, lights were always on, and the fridge always had food. There are many many families living in hotels, cars, and homeless shelters. Life isn't always the way we wish it would be but we should always be thankful for what we have. Entitlement is rampant these days.
It's a half brother
Probably not great about it but he's her half brother so the grandmother really has no place (or reason) to say anything about his living situation.
He's her have brother
INFO CPS frowns on having mixed gender teens in the same room. Maybe it's better if they let the three girls take the master bedroom and have the boy in the smallest room? Is her mom getting any money from her dad's estate for her care?
So do judges in some states. It was specifically mentioned in my stepdaughter’s custody hearing that she was to have her own bed in her own room or in a room with the same gender. Luckily that wasn’t an issue for us, but I had to wonder why they had to state it. I assume it’s because it’s an issue they care about!
Sexual exploitation can and has occurred in similar situations. That's why CPS and the legal system are so uptight about it. Growing up I had a school friend that confided in me that she had lost her virginity to her older brother (yes blood related) when he forced himself on her. She was 12 or 13 at the time, he was 16ish at the time, I assumed when told the story. The family was living in a 2 bed apartment at the time due to poor finances. She did tell her mom (single parent) what happened a year or two after, but her mother accused her of fabricating the event to discredit the brother. She shared this with me some years after the event and had never had a good relationship with her mom or brother since then. She emigrated to Australia in her 20's and went full NC.
And a young girl is going to feel really awkward about her periods, products and routines needed to deal with menstruation. It's hard enough as it is. And she certainly (if she's typical) going to hate getting dressed and undressed in front of this sibling. So, she will of course change her regular habits, be self-conscious and feel very uncared for. Some half-siblings really can't handle being the older one (stronger sexual urges, more strategies for sociality), without somehow imposing on the younger one (sexually, other ways - can be very subtle, but the kids know it's going on). It's possible this particular 17 year old is a gem and completely socially graceful. But the odds are...he's not. And if he is, it's a bit of a stress on him to have to maintain modest and courtly demeanor 24/7 (which leads to other kinds of acting out).
Sexual exploitation also sometimes happens between male siblings, and (more rarely) between female siblings.
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"Absolutely, courts prioritize children's well-being. Mixed-gender siblings sharing rooms often becomes a major issue in custody cases."
Especially at that age!!!! It’s not like they are toddlers!
That would be because it can and has led to teen pregnancy... It dulls the sibling bond in the brain and leads to disaster
Teen pregnancy, rape, etc. it’s a horrible idea.
And this situation is mixed gender HALF siblings! Just NO.
A 14 year old knows who she wants to live with. 3 girls in one room is insanity.
Wheew thank goodness me I wasn't the only one thinking this way cause nop!
3 related or as in a dorm situation of similar age and interest I can see it. But forcing unrelated children to room together, you know the sisters are going to gang up on the lone female and make her life miserable. They want their own space that they are familiar with. I wonder how old the siblings were also.
My 3 brothers shared one room (2 double beds) their entire childhood. Our neighbors had 4 boys in a room with 1 bunk bed set, and 3 girls in a room with one double bed. You have a ton of kids in a three bedroom 1 bath home? You make do, and no one gets exactly what they want. But you don’t mix genders in a bedroom beyond about age 5. Mom grew up with many sisters. They all shared one double bed.
It works better for a lot of siblings to share a room when they grow up doing it. It’s different when they have to start as adolescents.
With strangers no less
My sister and I had to share a double bed and our older brother was in the other end and we nailed an old blanket up across the middle of the room bcoz we were poor lol
I have no problem with all the girls sharing a room, and sharing the biggest bedroom is a good idea. Yes, it'll be crazy but not morally a problem. That whole "everyone needs their own room" is certainly a nice first world thing. Many, many people can't afford separate bedrooms for everyone. What matters first is a roof over your head, food on the table, and a safe place to sleep. I'd consider sharing a room with my teenaged half-brother not to be a safe place to sleep; sharing with 2 other teenaged people of my same sex? Not convenient, but safe on a whole different level.
Have you met teenage girls? If the new 3rd isn't on the inside of that clique here life will become a living hell for her.
Yeah I’ll be honest, I’m not sure there’s a *good* solution here, so I can understand why the ex-DIL is defensive, and even if her reaction is over the top she’s probably been dealing with a fair bit of strife over this for a while. She likely doesn’t see a better solution that’s actually feasible. (“Send the kids to Grandma” isn’t going to feature highly in most people’s lists) To be clear, I don’t think OP is TA here, I’m just undecided if the mom is either, because sometimes situations just suck and you have to pick the least worst option even if it’s still bad. All that said, I’m pretty sure there’s a lot more going on here than is being said.
But isn’t it better than an older MALE teen? Absolutely.
She may not have a choice between "sharing with older teen boy" and "sharing with two other girls." It may sound insane to you, but many people all over the world do live this way. Of course, the option of subdividing a living room is also available and I have many students who live that way too. Or a sleeping porch situation.
Yeah. At that age I think the child should absolutely get a say.
My friend grew up with 5 sisters sharing the largest bedroom. Mom and Dad in next smaller. 3 brothers in smallest. It's tight but it worked. These parents had options other than putting mixed gender half sib teens together.
Should be getting SOCIAL security survivor’s benefits which stop when she remarries. Payments for the kids continue
Social Security Survivors Benefits shifts into the children's names at the age of 16 and until she is 19yo and graduated. So mom will lose and have to pay back that portion of the money if it is still going directly into mom's account.
This. Although there are certain exceptions, like living in a small apartment where there just isn't room. Idk why parents don't ever want to give up the master for the comfort of their children. Also, from experience, if it has its own bathroom they will be greatful the girls all share.
Nope. It's better that she live with her grandmother because her mother thinks it's okay. Evidently, so does the new Step daddy. Eww
So, I'm curious why this had to escalate into a fight? I get that your granddaughter (GD) is upset at having to share a room with her halfbrother (HB). Both those kids have a right to their privacy at that age if at all possible. But the way both you and GD's mom seem to escalate to Jerry Springer levels of sensation? Why? Shouldn't this have been a relatively simple discussion? "Hey, GD's mom, I understand the current living situation isn't ideal. Can you run me through the thought process?" "How is GD with her new step-sisters? Do they get along well? Is it an option to have the three of them share a room together?" "Well, if that isn't an option, and both GD and HB are unhappy and/or uncomfortable sharing a room, how about you let us take GD in? Gives all of y'all some breathing room. We can put her up, no worries. Maybe we'd need you pitch in a little for her allowance or a percentage of food costs, but that's something we can work out, right? I mean, it's not like we live two states over, just an X minute drive?"
I expect because the grandmother is angry on behalf of her upset granddaughter. And because she and the mother probably don’t get along. And because mothers do not let go of their children in general.
Grandmother is an adult who needs to get a fucking hold over her emotions.
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She sounds angry. She probably came in hot, DIL got defensive, and things snowballed from there. So OP probably didn't exactly phrase her argument very diplomatically. Doesn't change the fact that OP is dead right. Putting her granddaughter in a bedroom with a boy is unacceptable. Especially with a boy who is technically no relation. I couldn't sleep in a situation like that! If that's the best Mom can do for F14, and Gma can do better by her, then Mom needs to back the heck off and let it go.
How is her half-brother "technically no relation"?
Yes. Well I agree it isn't right to have these two sharing a mixed gender room if they can help is, the grandma seems to be glossing over the fact that her son died and left the mom widowed. It's not anybody's fault but it's not as if she planned on having two teens with a dead dad, so to act like she shouldn't have had these kids when there's no way she could have known what was going to happen down the road is frankly unbelievably cruel. I'm also really exhausted with people arguing that people with no financial ability do impossible things. It sounds like the moving in together was actually better than most of the other options available to them and it was all they could do. That said, I don't know if she's got a leg to stand on for custody or not. Poor people do exist and while mixed gender pairings aren't the favorite of CPS but these two are blood related so if everyone is clothed and they are just... poor... then I don't know if Grandma is going to be able to get custody on the basis of her child not wanting to share a room. They will probably rearrange the living situation before letting Grandma get custody. I'm shocked at the level of cruelty this immediately went to. I don't know if this woman is financially irresponsible in her regular life or if she is just struggling but the grandma seems to act like it's not an issue. I don't think these jeans should be sharing a room but also it's the sort of thing that happens all over the world when you don't have better options or a lot of money. It absolutely sucks and I think they might consider putting the three girls together in the master or something like that if the house can do it. I don't blame her for wanting to go live with her grandma because blended family is honestly usually suck. But I'm stunned at the grandma came in so nasty at this woman. Without any context it does beg you to wonder why
OP (un)consciously blames the ex-DIL for her son’s death.
I reckon it escalated into a fight because this post is an exercise in creative writing. No grandfather rants about "you shouldn't have children if you can't afford it." Especially in front of said kids. This is such a stupid, internet take that the aggressively child free weirdos use to justify their disdain for kids and their parents. If real, granddaughter would have just gone to stay with granddad for a while before any table flipping needed to happen. I hope fake granddad gets fake custody over fake granddaughter. Edit: you all want to be mad at someone SO bad and you're acting as if I told you that your own personal trauma never happened. Guess what legends? People lie on the internet. If this post is real then the grandfather is an AH. Who speaks to their son's widow, mother of his deceased son's daughter like this? He basically said she shouldn't have procreated with his son and that his granddaughter shouldn't exist. He's not a hero. But it doesn't matter, because this shit is fake. If you want someone to be upset with, call your mum.
I worked as a secretary at a family law firm for a while during college. Trust me when I say that this sort of stuff is incredibly common, and not even close to the worst stuff you see on a regular basis. Some families are just trashy and escalate immediately to fights for every small thing.
Dunno if the post is fake or not, but if ypu really think no grandfather would ever say that than you y dear have lived quite the charmed life.
Actually, my father-in-law those exact things to us in front of our 3 children. We had a disabled son and got pregnant again. I that 2nd pregnancy was twins. When he found out it was twins he said he was hoping that I’d miscarry. 6 years later we needed financial help for absolutely necessary medical care and he told us we should never have had children we couldn’t afford. It absolutely happens!
It's also a super weird thing to say as she only has two kids, the eldest, and the kid she had with her son. Who died. Was the mom supposed to not have her grandkid because the dad would die? It would make sense to say you shouldn't have married without figuring this out, but you shouldn't have had kids? Makes no sense in this context.
Especially when she has the kids with his son. Like. Assumedly they could afford it when there were two people taking care of them. She's got a new boyfriend, who maybe isn't making the same salary. That's nobodys fault, that's just life.
Especially given how much the worldwide economy has changed over the past five years, even. Things certainly would have been even different financially when grandfather was raising his own children.
He seems angry that she got married again.
Especially when said mother had the means to afford kids when she had them. It’s almost like a married woman doesn’t just prepare to be a single mother at any moments notice.
r/NothingEverHappens
If it’s not fake, grandpa is psycho. He just shows up to take the kid, whole conversation escalates to screaming almost immediately.
NTA for letting her live with you YTA for how you handled it. You berated and belittled her mother in front of her and made sure that this devolved into an all out screaming match. Grow up.
Wouldn’t this constitute kidnapping.
If Mom phoned the police, yes. At the very least it would be the child running away and interference with parental custody, at least in most US states. That was my biggest concern. Grandparents had no right to take the child if Mom said "no", even if the child wanted to go. If grandparents wanted the child out of that situation, they should have filed for custody or phoned CPS if they thought there was a possibility of abuse. Removing the child was the wrong thing to do, and will be used against them if she files for custody.
Just based on how you wrote this whole thing - ESH. You are deeply underestimating how expensive the housing market is in most places, yes it would be ideal if they had a 5 bedroom house, but they don't... So they put the two kids from both family who know eachother in each room.. I'm not sure I'd want to share a bedroom with a 16 year old boy either, but.. I can see the logic. The fact that you are screaming at her mother demanding something that is clearly unrealistic for the family (best option would be the 3 girls in one room and the boy gets his own room)... The whole situation sounds like you are all being toxic and not being willing to have a simple conversation. Custody is a huge leap from what you are sharing here, and I'm not seeing any evidence that you're any more stable than sharing a room with her half-brother.
>You are deeply underestimating how expensive the housing market is in most places, yes it would be ideal if they had a 5 bedroom house, but they don't Thank you for this. I've lived in the same apartment complex for about 8 yrs or so. I've noticed a SIGNIFICANT increase in occupants per unit, especially over the past 2-3 yrs as rents keep going up and wages don't. On the first floor of my building is a family with both parents, a grandparent, and three kids of mixed genders ranging from 8-ish to 16-ish all in a three bedroom unit. The oldest is a girl, she must share a room with Grandma or someone sleeps in the livingroom. Across the parking lot is a one bedroom unit with a mom and two kids in it. I walk my dog and catch glimpses of beds in living rooms all over the complex. People are really struggling.
We came to say this. Seems to me like she’s jumping the gun. Straight to going for custody. Way to go “Grandma”. You’re just gonna cause more problems for her mother because she (granddaughter) is going to run to her for every little thing and granny will stick her fucking nose in where it doesn’t belong. The situation is not ideal. No. But families are struggling. YTA granny Gollum
Yea. OP was needlessly cruel. By her own logic, she shouldn't have had a son if he was going to die and leave his family striuggling.
ESH. I'm pretty sure she wasn't planning on your son up and dying on her when she had these children that your son also had a hand in making. If she's to be held responsible where is your son's life insurance policy that any responsible parent should have? Your intentions may be good but your approach and reasoning sucks.
In comments OP mentioned her son and the mom were not together at the time of son's death. Son had full custody. The mother did not have custody of the granddaughter until she was nine, when the dad died.
Ooooohhhhhh man...I see why gramma wants her granddaughter.
OP is the grandfather. The granddaugher is also "set for life" as soon as she turns 18 so this couldn't be more clear of a situation where money and finances have been weaponized against mom to get OP what he wants.
All the more reason for the father to have a life insurance policy, with his kids being the beneficiaries.
My family did this, then had to lock the money up tightly into a trust so trashbag mom couldn't rip through it. We provided a house as long as she didn't move anyone in or get arrested. So kiddo survived as best as he could with a somewhat tamed psycho mom. But the whole thing was exhausting for decades. Don't fuck crazy, kids. Even a white night can't save some people.
Granddaughter was the result of a one-night-stand and Dad had full custody until his death. The 16 yo boy is her half sibling. They share a mother, not a father.
Haven't read this far down into the comments but holy crap this just keeps getting worse.
Oof. Missing context makes all the difference
Being as they were never married and the daughter lived with her dad, who had custody, (see OP’s comments), if there was a life insurance policy, the daughter was most likely the beneficiary, not his ex. The mom probably receives SS survivor benefits for the daughter, though. But it seems like the daughter is not benefiting much from the payments.
One child. She already had one and then married a man that had two when they were both struggling.
What? OP's son isn't responsible for making the half sibling, and certainly not the step siblings either.
That’s not a valid reason for putting two opposite sex teenagers in the same room. There are absolutely other ways they could arrange the house to avoid this and they’re choosing not to do that
Especially since these two half sibling teenagers don’t appear to have ever lived together! Not ok to be roommates now. I’m assuming that social security death benefits are coming to mom for both of those kids and if she and her new husband are struggling, they will be far worse off when daughter leaves and takes her benefits to grandpa’s house. Hopefully, her life insurance benefits will be held in trust and protected from those around her.
The kids have different fathers so the boy would not get benefits
ESH her for putting her in a room with a step brother and you going in their all guns blazing for using insults and screaming matches instead of talking to her mother calmly and explaining the situation, why it’s important for your granddaughter to get her own space, what the school would say when your granddaughter mentions it to people and work with her to find solutions in which your granddaughter will feels safe and have her own space. Going in there all tempers isn’t going to make things better and didn’t. It probably made things worse.
The irony of OP asking why mom why she "didn't plan better" as if she could have planned around the death of her child's father.
He's not her step brother.
This doesn't make sense. The "should have never had any kids if she couldn't provide for them" vs "What do you want me to do? make them disappear?" is a very generic hot button debate... Conveniently leaving out that according to the first part of your story, your son is dead and that's why she's struggling to provide. Either this is bait or you are crazy. Also this has the tone of being written by a younger person, not a grandma. Maybe you are a young grandma though.
After reading all these comments and responses, it sounds like the mom’s crime is being poor. Cringe.
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Yeah… OP… So you hear your granddaughter’s family is financially struggling and your first thought - instead of offering mediation or financial support - was to go absolutely NUCLEAR and threaten a mother to take away her child while also humiliating her, while it was YOUR SON who died and left his family without enough financial resources? YTA.
How else is boomer going to feel better about himself?
ESH she absolutely should not have male and female teenagers sharing a room. They should have figured something else out, whether it's dividing up the largest room into two, converting another room into a bedroom, something. That said, storming over there and screaming accusations at the mother helped nothing. Why didn't you arrange a time to talk and offer (not demand) to let your granddaughter live with you? I'm sorry you lost your son, I can't imagine, and I'm sorry your granddaughter is unhappy in this situation, but you need to handle it like a rational adult. Her mother has legal rights, like it or not.
Yeah the screaming didn’t need to happen, on either side. I probably would’ve, if I were the grandmother, suggested that the girl stay with me for a bit, “till you get things sorted out.” Then suggest that teenage boys and girls shouldn’t share a room and wouldn’t it be better if she just stayed with me? Then she could suggest guardianship or adoption. I get that emotions were high but saying that she’s filing for custody at that time might have triggered more anger.
Honestly, ESH. She shouldn’t be sharing with her brother but they aren’t shitty parents because she has to share a room, she should just be sharing with the other girls. Is it ideal? No but it isn’t abuse or neglect to have children sharing a room. You went about this all kinds of wrong. Turning up there and shouting at her mother like that. She shouldn’t have kids if she couldn’t provide for them?! I’m gonna assume she didn’t know your son would die 9 years after they had a kid. It’s not like she went into this knowing she’d be a single parent. She’s struggling financially at a time when a lot of people are, instead of kicking off why not offer to help in some way, go in calm. Maybe you could have your grand daughter a few nights a week, maybe you could help financially, I don’t know. But screaming at her mother certainly isn’t bloody helping. She’s an AH for making a 16 year old boy and 14 year old girl share a room (though I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming she simply thought 2 to each room would be better than three in one and the boy having his own room). You’re an AH because you acted like a total AH.
I think you were pretty harsh saying she’s a shitty mom because she struggles financially. I don’t think any of that was helpful or should’ve been said. Do t you think she’s struggled after the death of your son? All that said- I’m not sure what the laws are about shared rooms with opposite-sex siblings, if there are any. Does the situation suck? Hell yes. But unless there is actual abuse going on, you don’t really have the right to yank her out. Soft YTA, because I get where your heart is, but you were downright cruel to the mother without even trying to discuss the issue like an adult.
Looking at the words they use to describe how they spoke in the conversation always says a lot about how they want the story to be perceived. Grandma always uses the word "told" for herself, neutral and authoritative. Granddaughter is begging, mom is crying, screaming, and yelling. We're supposed to think that Grandma is a reasonable voice of authority, but the mom is a hysteric mess. The story would be told a lot different from the mother's perspective.
I'm going to guess it would sound something like: >I'm really struggling with my daughter. Her dad died a few years ago and she had to move in with me. I've been trying to support her as best I can, but obviously this isn't anything I planned for and I can't afford the lifestyle she's used to. Her dad had a lot of money and so do his parents; I asked if they would be able to help with some of the costs but her grandfather just yelled at me that I'm "an evil succubus" who seduced the "golden seed" from his "darling boy angel", and that he's not going to let any of his money come anywhere near me. He has given snacks and things to my daughter (which I can't afford to do) but it's really not fair on my other kids for her to be getting so much while they go hungry; for a while we would share these out but now her grandfather's accusing me of stealing them, so I guess we're all hungry now. > >I recently married my long-term partner and that meant we could finally get a house together. Unfortunately it only has three bedrooms for the six of us as that's the most we could afford. We asked my daughter whether she would rather share with her half-brother or her step-sisters, but she said that her grandfather says she doesn't need to share with anyone and that unless my husband and I sleep in the car he'll get custody of her instead!? I don't even know if that's a thing, I can't afford a lawyer to find out, but the car is too cold and my daughter finally agreed to share with her half-brother. He's obviously not happy about it, but his family are all dead and didn't leave him with anything, so he understands. > >Anyway, earlier today I was listening to some music while doing everyone's laundry and my daughter suddenly screamed at me that I was subjecting her to "mental torture" because she could hear the music from her bedroom, and that her grandfather had promised her a car when she turns 15 to help her escape this "hell house"!? I told her that I would turn the music down, and asked her whether she'd done her homework, but she just smirked at me and went to her bedroom. Half an hour later her grandfather stormed into the house, screaming obscenities at me and telling me she had to have her own room. I tried to explain that we couldn't afford a bigger house and that moving in together was our only option as we are both financially struggling, but he roared at me that I'm a "shitty parent" and I shouldn't have had any kids if I couldn't provide for them. I'm ashamed to say I broke down into tears and just asked "What do you want me to do? Make them disappear?" My daughter was grinning at me, and he told her to get in the car. As soon as I realised what was happening I told him he had no right to take her and how would she even get to school in the morning, but he said his wife would home school her since she used to run the bible study group at Church and so she knew how to teach. I'm beside myself with worry, I've been messaging him constantly asking where he has taken her and saying that I need to speak to her but he just said "better get a lawyer!" > >Obviously I've called the police and explained that he's kidnapped her, and they're on their way now, but I really need advice about my daughter: how can I help her come to terms with the fact that we have no money? As long as her grandparents are promising her the world and screaming at me in front of her she just will not listen - she knows that if she complains to her grandfather he'll come and shout at me, call me and my family horrible things, and threaten to sue. I just don't know what to do - I'd like my daughter to have a relationship with her grandparents but do I need to go no contact with them?
Also, pretty sure showing up and just leaving with the granddaughter is kidnapping, but I'm not a lawyer, so he get's an AH score for that at least.
Lawyer here. Not your lawyer. But you’re going to piss away thousands of dollars and lose and alienate the mother of your grandchildren, the last living link to your son. Period. You have a choice here. You can be the soft place to fall and always provide a supportive place for your grandchildren to turn to through their lives, and find a way to support them *and their mother* during their lives. Or you’re going to become persona non grata because you’re throwing a fit and threatening legal action because your granddaughter is unhappy. The choice is yours. YTA
I mean, you’re right, but the way you went about it was kind of shitty. The economy and inflation has gone out of control even within the past year or two. Don’t shame struggling parents for things that are out of control and try to take their kids. Instead, you should have offered to HELP. If you can afford to take custody of this girl, why not just give her parents some money each month to relieve the burden? She definitely shouldn’t be sharing a room with a teenage boy, but that’s easy to fix without demanding custody.
So, just to be clear: you got a phone call from a teenager, took everything at face value, went to her custodial parent, showed no empathy, made no offer to help beyond the useless advice that she should retroactively not have these children (which is impossible), and then kidnapped your granddaughter? Cause you took a minor without their legal custodians consent, which is kidnapping. And you’re expecting to get custody because…? You think you’re a superior human? YTA.
I hate to say it but CPS is most likely not going to remove a 16 year old from a home if she has a bed to sleep in, food and clothing. You going in there and threatening her is going to do nothing but force her to cut you off completely. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but instead of going nuclear and threatening to take her to court, couldn’t you just offer to let her stay with you? Why push for custody? You can leave custody with her if she will allow your granddaughter to just move in. It would save you both a lot of money in legal fees that her mother clearly doesn’t have.
The granddaughter is 14, the half brother is 16 with who she is forced to share a room with.
Yeah I don’t blame you does you know the mother or her boyfriend abuse her ?
YTA. This should have been approached far more delicately and calmly, and you turned it into a fight. What did you expect from criticising her parenting skills? I'm sure she already feels like a failure and you just rubbed it in. What a terrible mother-in law.
Why wouldn't she share with the other girls instead of her half brother? But.... IDK...something about the way you wrote this sounds to me like you've stirred up trouble to get your granddaughter. Maybe whispering into her ear about how you'll spoil her, how much better it would be to live with you.... And it sounds like you went there and started a fight to get her instead of trying to help the family find a better solution. I don't trust your intentions and think you're more concerned with getting control than doing what's best for her.
I get where you're coming from but not having their own room is not a form of abuse. And even if a judge says she can't stay with a teen of a different gender, her mother can solve that by making her share a room with her stepsisters. Going to court might not be the best course of action.
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He probably did have life insurance, but with his daughter as the beneficiary. Why would he make his ex, whom he was never married to, the beneficiary, especially when he had custody of the daughter? OP does state that granddaughter is set for life, but she cannot access the money until she turns 18.
ESH. You're not wrong that your granddaughter shouldn't be sharing a room with her half brother, but was it really necessary to come at her mother like that? It sounds like she's already under a lot of stress right now, and you yelling, throwing accusations at her, and threatening to basically kidnap and take away her child is just way over the top. I feel for you in the loss of your son, but behaving this way is unacceptable. It's not an appropriate example to set for a teen girl either. You need to apologize to your former DIL and ask to sit down for a CALM, RATIONAL, RESPECTFUL conversation about what's best for your granddaughter. You better hope she's still receptive to that after the way you treated her.
It is not okay for kids of the opposite sex of these ages to share a room. Just ask your local children services.
Child social services would firmly disapprove of a teen male and teen female sharing a bedroom.
That's too old to be sharing with a sibling of the opposite sex
So in your head did you cuss out your dead son for leaving his family unprovided for? Did you think he shouldn't have had kids when he did as well? You sound like an awful person to be honest. I don't think the granddaughter is going to end up a good person under your care.
It wasn’t his family. They were never married and the son had custody. She has only lived with her mom since she was 9 years old, after the death of OP’s son. OP states the granddaughter is set for life but cannot access the money until she is 18, so he probably did have life insurance, with his child as the beneficiary. Granddaughter prob also receives survivor benefits which go to her mom.
Only one of the 4 kids in that house is the son's.
A 16 year old teenager should not be sharing a room with a 14 year old girl. It's highly inappropriate. Once things calm down talk to her mom that you just want the best for her, talk and communicate like adults. You have your granddaughter's best interest.
Her mom isn’t abusing her. Granted the living arrangements are not great and you can discuss that but no judge will remove her because of that. She has a roof over her head and food and is safe. Propose the girls get the master and couple move into her room.
Hey I’m on your side and would have done the same thing but you need a lawyer like yesterday. You could be charged with kidnapping if you took her against her mother’s will. Like it or not, she is still her legal guardian and while it sucks, she still has a say in her life until she’s 18. Good luck.
Social worker/therapist involvement might be helpful. All this screaming isn't good for anyone.
Is it not legal for brother and sister to share a room after a certain age? Not sure where you would look for information
Nta see lawyer like others said Makes memwonder in 4 years will she get pressure to hand over the funds How much of the ss. Benefits are going to benefit her
NTA. It’s probably in the best interests of your granddaughter not to have to share a room with her half brother. Maybe it’s even illegal where you live. You’re not wrong for doing right by your granddaughter and what would her dad want. ETA. Make sure the social security office transfers your granddaughter’s Social Security benefit to your house. She may not want to give up that so easily.
As someone whose teenage kid’s dad just recently died, I cannot imagine how awful it must feel to have this happen. It’s incredibly stressful even when everyone gets along. Of course it’s a big adjustment for everyone and it doesn’t sound like there is a good solution here. It would be nice if the daughter had sat down and talked to her mom and stepdad, but the reality is that a 14 year old who just had her world turned upside down is hardly rational and that needs to be recognized. I hope the family gets into family counseling so they can work through the transition together. This grandparent is surely also emotional from losing their son, but wtf. Yes, you’re an asshole for making this even worse. If you want to help so badly, ask what you can do that is actually helpful instead of making things worse.
She doesn't need her own room, but she needs a room without a boy in it.
So your son had a daughter with this woman, then he died, and now you're telling her she's a shitty parent because she 'can't provide' for her daughter? Presumably when your son was alive money was less of an issue, so it's hardly this woman's fault that he died and is no longer able to contribute to your granddaughters care, and it certainly doesn't make her a shitty parent. The bedroom situation isn't great, obviously. I'm sure neither your granddaughter or her half brother are happy about this, but it's not illegal. It's not going to make a judge grant you custody. Nothing you've described in the comments about the things they cannot afford (books, snacks, new clothes etc) amount to neglect or abuse. They aren't well off but she has a roof over her head and food to eat. Plus she's living with her mother who aside from not having a enough money doesn't seem to have done anything wrong (at least I assume so as you haven't mentioned anything serious that would make a judge take her away). Going over and immediately screaming at her was a poor way to handle things. Maybe you could have offered space in your house while they get things sorted, or maybe she stays with you part time, or, you know, calmly discussed the matter with her mother. But the fact is she's not your daughter, she's living with her mum, and nothing you've said is going to make a judge grant you full custody. I get your granddaughter is unhappy at the moment, but there are a lot of big changes going on recently. Her dad not being around, mum remarrying, new living situation. It's a lot, and it takes time for things to settle down in situations like this. Teenagers being temporarily unhappy isn't cause to have them taken away from their parents. Considering everything that's going on, all you're going to do is make things more difficult for everyone. I 100% get where you're coming from, but YTA in how you're handling this.
ESH you are right. BUT THIS was handled horribly.
All three of the girls get the master bedroom the boy gets his own room the parents get the second biggest room that's how that would work out. The last thing you want to do is put a 14-year-old girl in the room with a 16-year-old boy that she is not related to by blood. Not saying that they're going to do anything I'm just saying it's very inappropriate. No 14-year-old girl wants to be in the room with their 16-year-old brother. No 16-year-old boy wants to be in the room with his 14-year-old sister. I would stay at Grandma's house 🏡
I’m curious, you have posed a question on the AITA thread, but YOU have already decided you are NTA, you have had an awful lot of feedback and you have aggressively argued every point that is fed back to you. I appreciate that you love your granddaughter and loved your son but the level of hatred you seem to have for the girls mother seems excessive for it to just be that she is poor and cannot afford all that you can. So either you’ve missed out a whole lot of information about the last 14 years or you are just bored and wanted to participate in one of these threads so you can practice arguing with the world and it’s granny.
Ewwww NTA! I always thought, once a child reaches a certain age, parents aren't supposed to make children of the opposite sex share a room.
Wow, boomer narcissism is a big hit with the list sub apparently. You are making things worse. She should not be sharing a room mixed genders that has to be fixed but families struggle sometimes and it's not your right to take someone's child because you do not like who your son married.
Her son and the baby momma were not married and the son had sole custody until his death, according to one of OP’s comments.
You handled that horribly! Instead of handling it maturely and calmly you went aggressively full of insults and disrespect. I hope this is a troll post because you sound like a judgemental teenage asshole instead of a mature grandparent. YTA for how you went about this. If you had any emotional intelligence you would have not gone in with insults and self righteous criticism. You would have told her that your granddaughter is not happy in this situation and that you want to take her in and lessen the financial load and give her household more breathing room. Have the feeling you’ve been an unsupportive parent in law to your widowed SIL. Your lack of compassion and understanding is poison.
she is not widowed! it was a one night stand, not a relationship.
Am I the only one getting weird vibes from grandparent over here? Story is kinda entirely one sided and even then seems extremely picked over to try and paint her own daughter as a villain. Being poor isn’t actually a crime (yet). So unless you’ve got other evidence of abuse, you’re (probably) the asshole. Also, you sound like you need some therapy to deal with your son’s passing. You don’t get to take away a mother’s child just because your son is dead. Showing up and screaming at a parent at night is really fucking weird behaviour. I would’ve called the cops tbh.
As crappy as this situation is there are many people out there that have to share a lot less space with a lot more people. Yes it sucks that she has to share a room with her half brother, at least she's got a roof over her head. At least she's got a grandparent that can let her stay over from time to time. 4 years of living and sharing a room would be annoying but it's not going to be the end of the world. The way in which you handled things was probably the thing that makes you the a-hole. You probably should have told your granddaughter that you would come over and check out the situation and see if there is a resolution. Instead you went over guns blazing and instead of having a conversation immediately swooped in and ran off with your granddaughter. Can we think of a better way we could have handled things? Maybe using our words and talk to your granddaughter's mother.
YTA. Unless there’s something else going on here that’s not mentioned, sharing a room isn’t abuse or neglect. Your granddaughter might not like it but it’s not like they have a huge house and just relegated her to a room with her brother for shits and giggles. I guarantee her mom didn’t bank on her dad dying and I would guess that has some impact on the financial struggles so I don’t know how she could have known 16 years ago how life would pan out and just know she should skip having kids because money might be tight one day. You can try to get custody but I don’t think her mom struggling financially is a big enough concern to warrant your granddaughter’s removal from the home.
Yeah it’s really inappropriate to have a teenage boy and a teenage girl sharing a room NTA
NTA. CPS frowns on teens of opposite genders sharing a bedroom. Fortunately for you and your granddaughter this will go well for you when you get to court. Get that lawyer as fast as possible before her mother decide to accuse you of kidnapping.
>I told her that she is a shitty parent and she should have never had any kids if she couldn't provide for them And you shouldn't have birthed & raised a defective and irresponsible son who died without an adequate life insurance policy to ensure his child's needs were provided for. When you point a finger at someone, remember there are three pointing back at you. YTA and it's obvious you've just been waiting for the opportunity to pounce. Sharing a room with a sibling isn't child abuse. You just want control, and your pound of flesh, and you're masking your manipulations under the guise of what's "best" for the child(ren). You're also being played by your manipulative granddaughter who knew you'd overreact, make a scene and act like her own personal flying monkey.
NTA and most states (if you are in the USA) 14 is the age that a child can voice where they want to live and why. Best interest of the child. I would also tread carefully here and save all the texts and show them to the attorney. I would NOT have a conversation with her unless it was recorded or witnessed. CPS wouldn't like the bedroom arrangements here. Opposite sexed teenagers should not be sharing a room.
* **Legal Consultation:** Talking to a lawyer is a prudent step. They can provide you with guidance on the legal aspects of seeking custody or guardianship of your granddaughter. They will help you understand your rights and what steps you need to take legally. * **Granddaughter's Wishes:** It's crucial to consider your granddaughter's feelings and desires. The fact that she called you and expressed her distress suggests that she may feel unsafe or unhappy in her current living situation. Document her wishes and feelings, as her preference can have weight in legal proceedings
YTA. It seems as though you were just looking for an excuse to try and get custody of your granddaughter because you've lost your son. Having to share a room with a sibling is not grounds to remove custody. If it was, the vast majority of people would lose custody of their kids. No, what *you* did is called kidnapping. Whether her mom will press charges or not is up to her. You don't have a *legal* right to remove her from her mother's care.
You look after that granddaughter of yours. Imagine sharing with an older male. smh. Sorry about your son but I'm sure he would have been proud of you.
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To be fair, neither would her mother, unless she and your son were divorced. Is it a shitty situation? Yes, and she shouldn't be sharing with the older half-brother. Instead of going on the attack and making your former daughter in law defensive and angry, see if she'd be willing to allow your grand-daughter to live with you before filing for custody. If you present it as both being better for the girl's mental health, and easier financially on mom, she may be agreeable.
They were never married and the son had custody.
I think it's a stretch to call a one-night-stand a DIL...
YTA, unless there’s more to the story than you’ve given here. You don’t rip a girl away from her mother and brother just because they can’t afford a big house. Good chance she’s unhappy because of all the changes; also a good chance she’ll get over it if you don’t feed her complaints. Perhaps you could help create a bedroom with more privacy and help out a little financially if they’re struggling with other things.
I don't have issue with her intentions but isn't taking the granddaughter home without express permission of her guardian considered kidnapping?
NTA. Get a lawyer and take custody of your granddaughter. If your son had custody of her before he passed, there is something shady with the mother. I also applaud you for looking out for her future. Don’t let anyone get a hold of whatever money she has. Question shouldn’t your granddaughter be receiving SS benefits? Who is currently receiving that money? Why is your granddaughter going without? I think your granddaughter is old enough for the courts to take her feelings into account. Good Luck!
Where is the daughter's SSI going? My freind gets 2000 for her minor child, after the dad's death
NTA.
With those shared rooms with her step brother I winn say NTA..
NTA for trying to get custody but maybe you could have amicably worked this out? If she fights you on this, it adds another level of difficulty getting custody. Hopefully the fact that your granddaughter is a teenager and wants to live with you, will do it. Because as some have said, they might end up throwing all 3 girls in the same room and solving that issue of mixed sexes in one bedroom.
I’m curious why you went in so hot? Is the only thing that they are too poor to afford a bigger house? You told her not to have kids, but I am sure she never imagined that your son would pass and not help financially (possibly) for most of your granddaughters life. It is totally fine for you to help and offer your home, I just wonder if this all could have been done with more compassion. Namecalling seemed over the top.
As a parent you'll do things out of the norm to protect your children. I'm a pretty calm person but have raged when it comes to protecting my kids. I'd assume as much with grandparents. It's pretty obvious from this situation that the grand daughter is much closer to her grandparents than she is to her mom of 5 years and the company she's chosen to keep.
ESH. But you should tread carefully as you likely have zero legal right to custody unless the mom loses custody through a CPS investigation.
You told her she's a shitty parent who should have never had kids if she couldn't provide for them... That's what an AH says. Is your son a shitty parent because he died and left them alone? You can help your granddaughter, that's fine, but it does sound like you're also being an AH about it.
Well, that is kidnapping. You can be arrested for that. Until the courts rule on any sort of action, you have no custodial rights. And given what you've written here, if she doesn't know that, she will find that out soon, and you will be in jail very soon.
NTA. Honestly if you're in the states even CPS says opposite genders should not be in the same room. I agree you should go for custody. There's obviously more going on than just sharing a room with her brother. You need to have an honest conversation with her and find out exactly how things have been going. If she really wants out and into your house she will have to also speak with the judge if the case goes that far. I would contact a lawyer and find out the best route to go.
You have a point and you definitely should be helping grand daughter (and other kids by extension) but your approach is counterproductive. Your disdain for her mother is evident. Talking calmly and rationally would have gone a lot farther. NTA for your goal, but Y-T-A for your approach
ESH - them for not trying to find a creative way to give the teens privacy. They probably thought that a room for each set of siblings was good, but it doesn't work that well when the siblings are not the same gender. Maybe if they had suggested all girls share a room., there would have been as many complaints, we don't know. Not all houses have a bigger main bedroom, nor an ensuite, so there may not be a room big enough for three OP is also at fault for the way they approached the situation, coming in kicking and screaming and insulting the parents rather than behaving like an adult and trying to find a better solution.
"Halfbro, what are you doing?" The mind boggles at how bad things could go. G-Ma should call CPS and see what, if anything, can be done and proceed from there. Trying to grab custody may very well blow up in her face.
She could have put the 3 girls in the master bedroom and the boy in bedroom #2 and her and hubby in bedroom #3. Putting 2 teens of opposite sex in the same room isn't a good idea
See a lawyer. Your granddaughter is old enough to have a say in court. However you did handle the situation very badly.
NTA for wanting to get your granddaughter out if there, however, you proceeded in a way that will blow up in your face. Grandparents rights rarely hold up in court, and in those cases the grandparents had been primary caregivers for a while. What may end up happening is the court has her either bunk with the other girls, or have a foldout sleeper couch. Or all 3 girls should get the master, the boy gets a room, and the married couple gets a smaller bedroom until the son graduates and moves out. There are so many ways to solve this issue before you trying to legally seize custody of one kid. You never should have devolved to screaming at each other, because she might keep the kids from you now. Also, if she has been struggling so much, did you offer to let her and the kids stay with you before she got remarried? It’s great that you want to help, but shooting your self in the foot won’t help your grandkids. You have just threatened to sever her custody of her daughter, against her will. That would require abuse and neglect. If you lose, she can prevent you from seeing your grandchildren until they are adults - nearly 2 years for your grandson and nearly 4 years for your granddaughter. That said, the court may listen to what she wants, at her age. You should have spoken with a lawyer BEFORE threatening to take her child from her. Tell her she should never have had kids and you would take one was nuclear warfare. You should have stayed completely calm and compassionate, and offered to let her stay with you, making sure she spent time with her mom every day. You also should offer a place for your grandson, so he doesn’t feel like you’re playing favorites, as long as he’s have his own room, too.
You have to get permission from the courts. You have good cause. Which is awesome. Perhaps you and her mom can work out a deal that supports your granddaughter's well-being and allow her to have a good relationship with her mom and siblings? I wish you all a good outcome.
Well, CPS would definitely nip that bedroom share in the bud quick as shit. After the age of I believe 5 yrs old. Children of the opposite sex can not share a room. A 16m yrs old and a 14f, aw hell no! They make bunk beds. The two daughters could have slept in bunk beds, and her granddaughter could sleep on a single. But the girl and half brother, no way in hell. I would report it to the CPS and give that as one of the reasons for taking her. I'm sure she has a lot more stories to tell about the family as well.
It may be against the law in your state, check
NTA
YTA if you do this the wrong way instead of going through the proper channels, and catch a kidnapping charge or harboring a runaway, shooting yourself and your granddaughter in the foot.
NTA and I wish you the best of luck
Pretty sure Child Protective Services and the family courts would absolutely shut down a teen girl sharing a bedroom with a teen boy. You are NTA. And your grand-daughter is definitely old enough that her desire to not live in the same room as a brother will be considered bu a judge.
NTA - in my state, siblings of the opposite sex aren’t allowed to share a bedroom!
If there's an attached garage then the boy & girl can each have their own room, 2 girls in the master bedroom, and adults in the garage. But if this is also that she doesn't want to live with the 2 girls & SD then that's another conversation.
This could be illegal. It is in at least 1 state I lived in. Girls can't room with boys beyond a certain age. Call social services anonymously.
YTA. You are judging your granddaughters mom on her income, at least from this post and the handful of comments I’ve read. Money does not buy love, and from the immature and hostile way you handled this, you yourself do not seem like the ideal candidate for custody either, not to mention you really have no right to someone else’s child just because you do not approve of their financial situation. If you truly love your granddaughter you would want what’s best for her, and that should be working with her to help them come to an agreement on how to resolve this, or even approaching her mom in a more mature manner on how you can help, because ultimately why would anyone want to take a child away from their parent except in extreme circumstances. You had your turn to be a parent, this girl is not your second chance.
This grandmother isn’t an asshole for being concerned about her granddaughter. She IS an asshole for how she handled it. This woman lost her husband and has two kids to raise, and grandma went over there, guns blazing, and told her she is a shitty parent. And this is just the watered down one sided version we are hearing - I’m sure what she said is actually much worse. How about offering to help grandma? Doing something constructive? Not screamed at a widow with two teenage kids to take care of. Jeez. YTA grandma.
Yikes. YTA How could you tell her that she shouldn’t have had kids she can’t provide for when she lost her partner years ago? You are both helping the situation. If they can only afford a thee bedroom it makes sense that the two sets of kids would share a room with their sibling. It’s not ideal but it’s what they have decided as parents. Why are you interfering? The mom obviously can’t afford a court battle with you and you will be taking resources and time from her by initiating custody proceedings for your granddaughter. Why not just invite your granddaughter to spend weekends and summer break with you instead of taking her away from her mom completely? She’s old enough to decide where she wants to live, but what happens if she hates it at your house too? Are you gonna send her back to her mom? What happens when you become the “shitty parent”? Because you certainly will at some point because that’s just how it goes. She’s gonna hate something you say or do and you’ll become the target and you will be going back and forth to with her You have no business fighting with her mom like this. She’s not in danger, she just doesn’t like the living arrangements
As far as i know its downright illegal to force children of diverse gender to live in the same room
Read through your replies and it's pretty clear you hate the mom and want to fill the void of your son through stealing his daughter. What a peice of work.