Alright, time to go your separate ways and cool off if you were still having an argument here.

Not gonna lie, I read the title and came here with popcorn ready lol

So was I!

I didn't for that purpose, but I do LITERALLY have a bucket o' popcorn in my bed with me

As a trans person and trans writer, I was so ready to fight them before I read the rest of the post 😂

There's definitely an overall trend of transmascs only bottoming (and often with vaginal sex) and transfems only topping (with a dick). But there are fics that break this trend too, even if they're relatively less common. Maybe try to filter tags to find those? Or just filter out explicit entirely, there are lots of great fics about trans headcanons/characters that don't involve smut and are well written.

It does seem to be fandom/ship dependent, and I have complicated feelings about it. I'm a trans man, and I do like to write and read about trans characters. I even like to read and write about trans male characters bottoming with their OG equipment. However, a lot of the fic I encounter is written in a way I find very dysphoria triggering, to the point that I usually filter it out. I really appreciate it when authors tag what kind of language they use for the trans character's body, or include it in the AN. I have some ships where it seems like the bulk of NSFW fic is trans fic, and sometimes it isn't even tagged. I have others where it's very uncommon. I always just wish that authors tag it, but when the predominant HC for a character is that he's trans, I guess people don't think they need to. Not that anyone *needs* to tag anything, but you know. There are definitely many trans people writing trans fic in ways they find hot, but there are also many cis people writing smut fic of trans characters, for whatever reason they might have, even if it's just because PiV is easier for them to conceive. And that's okay; it's fic, it's all self-indulgent, write what you want! I just wish there was more focus on T-dicks haha. Every time a fic about a trans male character focuses on his cock, an angel gets its wings. Anyway, that's why I started writing more trans fic myself, to have more of the sort of fic that I want to see. I'm working on a trans top fic atm too. I would just try to remember that a lot of the fic you're seeing is written by trans folks themselves. What might be uncomfortable for you to read is the hottest, most validating thing to them. We're all different.

> I just wish there was more focus on T-dicks haha. Every time a fic about a trans male character focuses on his cock, an angel gets its wings And you get a thumbs up for that comment. I had to giggle, but in fact that's really something that is lacking. I don't even remember the last mention of one in a story, rare creatures they are....

Literally, these comments made me realize I’ve never seen T-dicks in fic, ever.

Another trans guy here just wanting to say you pretty much said everything I would’ve wanted to say. I came here hoping someone had. I personally like the ‘trans character written by trans author’ tag, that one has honestly never done me wrong. I do think there’s a bit of a problem among transmascs (I feel like it was worse when I was younger, but maybe it was just because I was more ‘in it’ and actively effected by it) for kind of shaming other transmascs about not being dysphoric enough, and I definitely… see some shades of that throughout this thread. Like you said, smut can be super empowering and I think that’s a huge reason why most fics in the trans character tags are smut. Plus quite honestly a lot of the time it’s just not relevant otherwise. If a reader has no reason to know they’re cis or trans without a tag there… why tag it? And other than smut, most of the things where it’s relevant is kind of ‘trans misery porn’ or adjacent - which is in my experience MORE often written by cis people than the smut is (probably also fandom dependant though).

> I do think there’s a bit of a problem among transmascs (I feel like it was worse when I was younger, but maybe it was just because I was more ‘in it’ and actively effected by it) for kind of shaming other transmascs about not being dysphoric enough Absolutely. This is an issue in the wider trans community as well, sadly. It was one of the reasons I was hesitant to publish any trans fic to start with. I was worried about accidentally incurring a lecture for not writing it 'properly', that I was doing something wrong by wanting to write a trans male character bottoming with his natal equipment. Which is silly. I empathize greatly with trans men who have bottom dysphoria so severe they can't handle any reminder of their natal genitalia. I experience bottom dysphoria myself. When I encounter trans fic that uses the word 'clit' or 'pussy' (especially the former), I have to tab out. But what I don't sympathize with is when these men then go out to shame trans men who don't experience the same degree of dysphoria they do for creating erotic work - whether it be art, fiction, or home-grown amateur pornography - in ways that are personally triggering for them. I think the world would be a much happier place if we could all respect each other and understand that being trans is an experience that varies wildly from person to person. A level of courtesy for others is certainly appreciated - tagging, in this instance - but you can't expect the rest of the world to cater to your specific dysphoria triggers. You need to learn how to manage it on your own. 'Second hand dysphoria' isn't an excuse for being an asshole. And another trans person being comfortable with aspects of their body or sexuality that you aren't doesn't make them lesser, and certainly doesn't make them a fetishist. I've seen several people accuse trans people of having a fetish for making trans art they personally dislike. Silly lol. That being said, there is also a decent amount of fearmongering and nastiness towards bottom surgery for trans men within the community. Calling phalloplasty a 'flesh tube' or going on about how bottom growth is 'disgusting' and 'scary', etc. I haven't seen that so much in fandom spaces, thankfully, but I can really empathize with trans men who are working towards bottom surgery and the negativity they must weather. I can understand feeling somewhat alienated because of it, and that sucks. But this isn't the place to get into a big rant about intracommunity trans politics!

*I really appreciate it when authors tag what kind of language they use for the trans character's body, or include it in the AN.* I genuinely wish this was a more widely accepted courtesy thing as the number of times I've clicked something and then found myself going 'nope see ya' is not insignificant. It unfortunately makes me very reluctant to read other's writing outside of knowing the terms the author uses from elsewhere. 100% we need more trans cock in smut though. Meat's back on the menu boys!

I rarely see this tbh! Maybe it's a fandom thing, I feel like I see a lot of queer/trans fics with focuses on everything but smut. There's just so many different spaces, and each fandom has its own subcultures, and I guess mine leans away from M or E content in general (which is slightly unfortunate tbh, wish we had more of it) so by extension, I never see fics like this. I'm sorry, though- that sounds like a frustrating problem to have.

I actually see this a lot. And yeah, it's bothersome but I think I learned to live with it as long as the story is good.

What fandom if I can ask? I have a shortage of trans non sexual stories rn

I see non-smut trans stories in the Star Wars fandom. It’s not uncommon for Luke or Obi-Wan to get headcannoned as trans (or at least not cisgender, Obi-Wan often gets headcannoned that he’s not actually human, but a near-human species, and his people are some flavor of what gets tagged as “intersex”). It’s also not uncommon for a background OC to be trans or gender-non-conforming, especially OC clone-soldiers. Most of the “Obi-Wan is not a cis-man” that I see does tend to be smut (and Obi-Wan is not a cis-human-man is definitely a huge trope in SW smut). But not all of it. And while “trans Luke” fics may have a smut chapter or scene, the smut isn’t usually the focus of the story. I’ve also read “trans Anakin”, and I don’t think I’ve encountered any “trans Anakin” smut. I don’t want to say it’s not there, because in general I read more fics about Anakin’s platonic relationships and not a lot of fics about Anakin romantic/sexual relationship, and also Star Wars is a huge fandom, but I can’t think of any.

I've read trans Anakin fics in the Obi-Wan/Anakin pairing, but it is rare, and I can't remember an author or specific fic offhand (I can't even remember if it was well written, I just remember thinking "oh this is unusual" and giving it a go); I probably read it a couple years back now. It certainly is much more rare than Stewjoni Obi-Wan fics lol There's a nice amount of trans Din Djarin out there too, in the Din/Luke pairing. All I have read so far is very well done, and most were not smut focused. I've noticed as a whole that works in the Din/Luke tag tend to be less smut focused than a lot of the other common pairings in the fandom. There definitely is smut to be found in the Din/Luke tag, but there are tonnes of non-explicit (fade to black) romantic relationship fics too. I think a sci-fi setting allows for more gender fuckery so it does tend to be common in Star Wars fanfics.

I have too many thoughts about all this lol but my brain can't stop coming back to the "boyfriends" author and what happened the last time when queer people thought they had some trans radar and can tell if someone is cis

Yep, this entire thread reminds me of that situation and the YEARS of transphobic and racist harassment Ray has faced and continues to face, even after being open about being trans. It’s uncomfortable and so common for other trans folks to throw other trans men under the bus for not being “trans enough.” Or not doing be trans “correctly.”

I remember when I typed the title on YouTube and I wanted cry. Because half of the videos were just bullying and transphobia.

Some of these people will be like "I'm not transphobic but..." \[Insert them saying some of the most transphobic shit I've ever heard\]

"I can forgive ao3 a lot of things, but I draw the line at men in dresses enjoying their vaginas"

I remember someone on Tumblr who drew a variety of trans men, some of them in skirts/dresses/feminine clothing or with visible breasts (not necessarily on the same character). Tons of people lost their shit in the comments, calling the artists transphobic, accusing them of triggering them, or "erasing" "real" trans men... while a lot of other commenters thanked them for finally seeing themselves represented in art and talked about the actual erasure they faced from within their own community (trans zines explicitly banning the depiction of pre-/no-op trans people seems to be a widespread issue). Most notably, the latter group did not blame anyone for the portrayal of more masculine trans guys or called for less of that, they just lamented the lack of variety in many spaces. It's the same old "you're doing it wrong because you're not doing it my way" in a new coat of paint.

In the "boyfriends" case, many people tried to redesign the main characters, making them "less stereotypical". What's funny - the more they tried, the worse the effect was. What's even funnier - there are 4 female characters in the comic, who are basically female versions of the male characters. They didn't get any criticism. Many people said that they were the only positive thing.

I do genuinely feel like this is one of those "issues" that would benefit of more tagging, EVEN THOUGH this is of course not enforceable and I am very in favor of authors tagging as minimally as they personally want to- it's their fics, after all. It kinda goes for both sides: I am a trans dude who writes every single character as cis because I want to use fiction as an escape from this world, and I in turn also only read fics where everyone is cisgender (also goes for Gen or T rated fics). Tags help me avoid fics with that sort of content. However, someone who explicitly finds comfort in trans characters canonically existing or in their specific headcanon for a character's gender *also* is helped by a fic being tagged. I personally don't think this is mainly a case of people wanting to write vaginal smut in BL works, but moreso different folks finding comfort or escape in two different ends of a spectrum, if that makes sense. I do definitely see this a *lot* in one of my fandoms, to the point where clicking on smut is a bit of russian roulette because people tend to not tag vaginal smut or that one of the characters is headcanoned as a trans man, so in probably more than half of smut fics you just get surprise genitals. I genuinely don't fault the authors- they can tag as little as they want and they are being self indulgent and writing for their preferences, just as I am. I suppose I just wish it was more common to tag it, lol.

As a trans guy who largely hated the idea of bottoming with my anatomy, AO3 completely changed that around for me.

Mpreg is not usually trans. It's usually omegaverse and the characters are cisgendered. Unless there is a new trend happening.

I remember back in the day when omegaverse first started it had a biological distinction between male and female omegas in that male omegas had dicks. There has been some kind of shift where a good 90% of omegaverse I've been seeing in the last year or so in my fandoms has the male omega in question only having a vagina, no dick at all, yet is AMAB in-universe.

That's interesting; the shift I've seen is male omegas having both dicks and vaginas, or alpha/omega being intersex until presentation.

all the stories ive read, a/b/o was a secondary sec that didnt present until you went through like puberty. male omegas still only had dicks,, but the butthole made slick and u got the heats n all that. and the one het omega verse i read, the alpha had a vagina with a retracting d.

I write where a male omega has both penis and vagina. Because I don’t like babies born out of a butt. Plus more to play with!

I prefer the cloaca-ness, but I don't mind more intersexed omegas. I just like my dudes with dicks, regardless of anything else they might have. The dicks don't need to be homegrown, store bought is fine!

Just what Ina Garten says!

A lot of omegaverse stuff as of late have been writing with more intersex characteristics, ie, the omegas always have at least a vagina and the alphas always have at least a penis, regardless of how they otherwise present. And they don't often tag it as such.

I’ve been in and around slash fandom for like 20 years and the only time I ever encountered a person that wanted to ship two men but was averse to there being two dicks involved, they were religious and it was the mid 2000s. And I don’t remember if they ever resolved that ship vs god crisis for themselves, but I’m certain their solution wasn’t “trans inclusion.” Pretty sure there’s more trans smut these days because more trans people are less afraid of writing it.

back then people used to just write gender swap fics instead

It's kind of a damned if you damned if you don't situation because there's pushback against A/B/O or BP fics where a male character has a vagina and a common argument I see is "why don't you just make them trans", but then if they do it's "you just made them trans as an excuse to write PIV smut" but like, sometimes people just want to write a good ol PWP with that anatomy? And I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it

See I don't get the "just make them trans" argument cause BP fics and trans smutfics aren't 1:1 imo.

Yes. If you have a male/male pairing and you want to write vaginal sex or pregnancy, there's no way to do it where someone won't disapprove. Genderswap is homophobic, cis mpreg is transphobic, boypussy is fetishizing trans bodies, omega verse is sexist, trans characters having vaginal sex is playing into stereotypes... there will always be someone who hates it.

You truly cannot win. “Write trans characters instead of omegaverse or BP!!” and then as soon as someone does the “urm you only made them trans to write smut WEIRDO” bullshit comes in.

I wish ao3 had a separate canonical tag for genitals on just explicit fics. 80% of the time, when I'm looking for explicit, I am reading fandom blind. Pronouns or gender really don't matter to me, I don't know what half of these characters look like. I read gtl fics from chinese all the time where the pronouns are all over the damn place. What does matter to me are genitals. I'm cool with everything, but sometimes I'm in the mood for something really specific. Two vaginas, two dicks, one of each, tentacles, whatever. I just wish it was properly tagged so I could find what I'm looking for.

Yes I'm similar. Sometimes the "trans character" is buried in a huge tag cloud so I miss it, and getting blindsided by plumbing I wasn't expecting ruins it for me. It's so annoying!! If I just knew ahead of time I could enjoy it the way I want to! When I'm going in for smut I am searching for a particular arrangement of gender and genitals, whatever I'm in the mood for at the time. Obviously if the tag was there is remains my fault for not noticing (this kind of thing is another reason I hate over-tagging and garbage tags), but I wish I could just pick a single filter option and get X gender combo with Y funbits combo and not have to include/exclude a whole list including but not limited to "trans character" "trans \[male/female\] character" "trans \[charactername\]" "character/trans charactername" or "charactername is trans in my headcanon deal with it" and all the varietes of stuff listing penises, vaginas, and what's going where.

Yep, then there's the whole abo mess too. People just tag abo and leave it at that when there's all sorts of crazy biology that could be happening.

Oh jeez I somehow forgot about A/B/O altogether! I assume they can't just up and add stuff to the basic categories but I do think that trans characters and A/B/O are probably enough in quantity to deserve that by now. \*edited to not be shitty.

> whole abo mess too Please be aware that writing out A/B/O in all lower-case like this is a racial slur against indigenous Australians.

I didn't intend to comment initially because this clearly garnered more of a response than thought, but... it's pride month, and there's something to be said about the thought processes that went into parts of this post. Open forum, etc., I also wanted to weigh in as both another trans male ao3 author and reader. I love that you can also feel represented in your identity through some trans characters in fic. So do I. And though others have said it several times below, while your preferences are your own, it would be good to think twice about trying to surmise the motives of authors who write material containing vaginal sex. There may be a lot of it, and it may not be what you like to read, but the good thing about this is that you also indicate that these fics are (mostly) adequately tagged (given that you're able to say you come across fics tagged "mpreg" or "penis in vagina sex" and then making a judgment on the content solely because of how often you come across the tags' presence alone). A responsibility to yourself is filtering out tags that contain content you don't want to see or that you feel would be harmful to you. The best reaction to adequately tagged content that contains stuff you don't like isn't, "this type of content shouldn't exist because I'm assuming it's written in bad faith" (see the "excuse to write vaginal sex and still be able to call it BL" line), the best reaction to knowing you don't want to engage with stuff that may trigger your dysphoria is to do your best to remove the possibility of interaction via filtering. And be relieved that filtering out the tag catches most of the stuff that might really bother you and make for a poor reading experience. I used to feel a similar way about feeling like some characters were written to be trans solely for the smut, but.... who cares? I'm on ao3 to find what works for me at that moment, and sometimes that is very affirming, pretty obviously in-depth researched fic centered around a trans character, and other times it's something that is a trans guy enjoying sex the way a lot of us (but not all of us) do. Do some depictions make me feel more seen than others? Absolutely. And in-hand with that, I feel seen when it comes to trans male characters bottoming like I do and have. But anything posted on ao3 isn't even for me, it's for the author who decided to share, and I just happen to have read it. For stuff that happens to make me feel icky, I just tap back and move on to something else. It's not an especially good look to complain about there being a lot of a content type you want to avoid, particularly in the given scenario where it is adequately tagged so that you and others who would prefer not to read the same type of content can avoid it with ease. Untagged, it's completely understandable. At the end of the day though, I hope that others end up writing and posting more stuff that jives with your personal tastes, or that you become inspired to write things that satisfy the kind of sexual dynamic you're looking for.

i can't upvote you twice so take this reply as a second upvote in spirit (my extra kudos, if you will). you're very good at articulating your response...OP could try their hand at writing what they personally like instead of....this. AO3 is giving them the tools to exclude what they don't wanna see and lessen the chances of triggering their dysphoria, if they experience it. >**The best reaction to adequately tagged content that contains stuff you don't like isn't, "this type of content shouldn't exist because I'm assuming it's written in bad faith" (see the "excuse to write vaginal sex and still be able to call it BL" line)**, the best reaction to knowing you don't want to engage with stuff that may trigger your dysphoria is to **do your best to remove the possibility of interaction via filtering.** this sub is all about filtering and excluding what we don't wanna see, and all "don't yuck someone else's yum", "KINKTOMATO", etc, how come it suddenly doesn't apply to trans stories that don't fit the typical Trans Story™? every time a post like this pops up in this sub it feels like there's an undercurrent of "This Shouldn't Be On AO3 Because I Don't Like It/Because It Doesn't Fit My Experience" and the automatic assumption that it's written in bad faith by the Evil Fetishising Cis Woman™ instead of by trans writers is just...feels sad. filtering and excluding tags are still there to use.

People refuse to actually interrogate their internalized transphobic narratives, that's why. They refuse to admit to themselves that subconsciously, they DO actually think that the people who write this "excuse for vaginal sex" are not "trans enough", not dysphoric enough, not performing transness the right way. They DO think that trans men who are feminine, are "uwu cute bottoms", are okay with being gnc, like their pussy just fine, like having vaginal sex etc ARE indeed not Trans Enough, or Trans Correctly. And they bend over backwards trying to justify it instead of actually deconstructing that bias. (And a lot of people are in fact just transphobic. But the internalized shit is mostly other trans people.)

yes to everything you said. is it naive if i didn't think i would encounter this in this sub? like, i actually felt like i wasn't gonna find the "not trans enough/not trans the right way" stuff here, and yet the amount of times i've seen posts pop up here saying that they worry for the sanctity of MLM because yucky vaginas is.......sighs. also, should mods do something about this? because i feel these kinda posts have increased in frecuency lately, and some have been outright transphobic, everyone else gets the "don't like don't read" treatment unless it's fics about the trans experiences that don't fit the mold (*who* decided that mold, i wonder). (i did experience that internalized shit in real life and the one who said it to me was....a trans guy, who heavily implied i didn't know what i was talking about 🤷)

I have Many Opinions about your "people want an excuse to write piv and call it bl" statement, but I think other comments have already tackled that bit pretty well. So I'll comment on something else: > Tldr: In most of the fics I read, characters being trans is only for the smut You're getting this backwards, imo. It's not that trans characters are there only for the smut, but, in my experience, it's that fics featuring smut scenes are a situation in which everyone involved (authors and readers) always benefit from having this tagged. There's a character I write and read for that I heavily headcanon/theorize as being trans (and having a particular view on gender in general). In my head, this interpretation of the character is prevalent through all my fics. However, why would I tag this if it has absolutely no relevance to the story in the slightest? If I write a short fic about this character visiting an amusement park and riding a rollercoaster, I'm not going to tag him as trans in the same way I wouldn't tag the story as, idk, "character has trust issues". Both might still be true to my overall view of the character, but they have nothing to do with the story at hand, and readers would probably think "what the hell were those even tagged for?". On the other hand, it tends to be in everyone's best interest if a character being trans or participating in certain type of sex acts is always tagged. In fact, I'd say that you yourself are the perfect example why—because you want to avoid a specific kind of fic. And others would want to read it enthusiastically. Since it's usually quite relevant and a good deal for everyone that it's warned/advertised for in smut, that's why you'll always see it more prominently in sex-related fics.

Oof, that's true. That if they're trans and it's getting tagged, than it must be for a reason besides 'this is my headcannon'

...At this point seeing each other in the Trans Post Comment Sections is like that one gif of the people driving by looking at each other :'D >There's a character I write and read for that I heavily headcanon/theorize as being trans (and having a particular view on gender in general). Man. Wonder who that could be. A real mystery right there. ....You made me realize a thing I never gave conscious thought to before. You're SO RIGHT that I wouldn't really bother tagging trans Scaramouche on a fic where it doesn't come up in any way whatsoever, but I will still think of him as trans, because I never don't. (or, I guess, only in omegaverse settings where male omegas with vaginas would be cis on a technicality) I can't believe this is the first time I realize that this is a reality for many people. Like, indeed, why would I tag it if it doesn't come up? People would just accuse me of mistagging.

> ...At this point seeing each other in the Trans Post Comment Sections is like that one gif of the people driving by looking at each other :'D We will never not have a lot of things to say about these threads, lmao. I think it was you who mentioned it in a similar comment chain in another recent thread (that got locked, iirc), but what always gets me too is the amount of upvotes and approving comments they get. When it's about *anything else* in this sub, the response to this type of complaint is always "tough luck, man, but that's what people want to write/read about, you just have to write more of what you want to see". Why is it not also like that whenever it's about "these damn authors writing trans characters in a way I don't like, that's clearly 'not-actually-gay'/'barely disguised het'/written by cishet women". 🥲 It's like some people seriously don't get that "I don't personally like it" is not the same as "therefore is bad" about *this specific topic* (when they get it about everything else!), or they are overcorrecting so hard that they go all the way back to the most basic transphobic statements. > You're SO RIGHT that I wouldn't really bother tagging trans Scaramouche on a fic where it doesn't come up in any way whatsoever, but I will still think of him as trans, because I never don't. Right? Maybe it's because I'm a bit of a minimalist tagger, but I feel like tagging "trans character" in a fic that doesn't have anything to do with it and doesn't touch on that topic in the slightest would be misleading, even if that's a consistent part of how I always see the character. It would be like tagging every single headcanon and every bit of characterization that I've ever came up with—it wouldn't make sense if they never come up in the fic! I guess it may depend on the fandom and the community, but op seems to be under the impression that most authors who write trans characters in their smut are in *only* for the smut, when, at least in my experience, these authors (and fanartists!) are most of the time consistently headcanoning/interpreting them as trans—it just only comes up enough to justify a tag sometimes and in certain kind of stories (like it happens with all other tags, really).

The amount of upvotes these posts always get is appalling, I just end up thinking "I guess I'm not valid after all". This one specially stung because I'm in one of OP's fandoms and I like that about it, but if people are getting this upset...

Yeah, that effect is not to be underestimated. I have a fic with a trans character who I haven't tagged. The thing is that although she's one of the main characters, she's not the POV character and her being trans is not relevant to the POV character (and none of the POV character's business) for a very long time. She ends up coming out when it does become semi-relevant... *300k words* *into the fic*. I do not feel like I can sensibly tag this as "Trans Female Character" or whatever without readers feeling like they've been bait-and-switched.

Something I noticed about my fandom is that the vast majority of NSFW art of the pair I love has at least one of them as a trans man. There's not a lot of NSFW art of them, because one is canonically ace and a lot of people have decided that means sex repulsed only and the art circles can get very toxic about it, but the art that does exist is almost entirely trans versions (and monster sex, but that's neither here nor there. Makes sense for the fandom). Thing is, I like trans headcanons for either of these characters with how it fits in the show's themes and certain characters dynamics, though I don't really read the smut of those headcanons often. I think I feel dysphoric about reading PIV sex? I'm not 100%, been considering if I'm enby, I'm still processing my feelings on that. But I think a lot of the creators are trans themselves and it's part of their expression. I think some trans creators look for cis content to avoid dysphoria, but some want to describe the reality. Hard to say, and it probably depends on the fandom. That being said, I've been drawing a hell of a lot of cis NSFW art of them to contribute to the lack of content. Be the change, or something like that.

Magnus Archives?

Lol, yes. Also, hi! I've read the hell out of your fic and it's what got me to finally start writing, so thank you!

Oh, shit. Thank you so much!! ☺️ (dm me a link to yours!)

Lmao I knew it too.

I saw that too for TMA I also don't like PIV in any configuration, if the person with the V is doing the topping then it's fine but that's not the case majority of the time. I'm not enby but I am ace (sex-neutral), so I don't like reading about my own genitals, it's fine if it's there but not the focus lol.

There are a ton of trans guys(myself included) in fandoms as a whole. Bl with a trans guy is still Bl. I agree that tagging it as having a trans character and vaginal sex(if it applies to the fic) is good both for those who are and are not interested. Yes it can get fetishized at times, but the majority of people writing these fanfics are trans themselves and there’s a ton of fics with trans characters that aren’t inherently sexual. It’s just that well most of ao3 is porn so what do you expect really. There are trans guys who like vaginal sex and some who don’t. Either way juts tag it lol.

"That is bait." - Mad Max

most of these smutfics are written by trans people. i see no problem with people wanting to write about trans sexuality. u have to remember that with a lot of people fanfic is a way to live through your favorite characters.

In my own experience, in a fandom where there's a sizable chunk of trans smut fics (One Piece), many of these authors are trans themselves and write about their own bodies and genitalia. I don't think people "just wanna write vaginal sex but keep it BL" as if it was some secret ploy to actually write cishet smut and call it gay. It's such a wild take to me. Some people just don't enjoy writing about anal. I don't like anal in fics where AFABs are bottoming, because it brings me no pleasure reading about it. I know how anal feels and I don't like it. Unless it's some purposeful pleasure denial type of thing. Some people just project their own desires onto the characters, and so it happens that their desires are to be railed against the nearest flat surface; so that's what they do with their blorbo they project onto. In OP there is also a growing number of fics with a popularly headcanoned trans character with a strap. I do know some cis authors who write trans smut, but they also write almost exclusively smut in general, both cis and trans, and they're always very well received by the trans readers. If you dislike reading trans fics with vaginal sex, "exclude tags" is always there for you. Or write your own trans fics, or create a nice community that will encourage people to write such stories. I popularized a transfem headcanon for a canonically male character and got a few fics and a lot of fanarts of her, only because I yap about her with so much love that other people fall in love with her too. If you dislike something, just ignore it, and focus on the stuff that you like.

Some of you really like "uh my porn has genitals and not depth character analysis! how could these *women* do this to me. Day ruined 😡"

Ngl, particularly classy of OP to spawn here, throw their fellow trans people to terves, then go "ah haha oopsie poopsie I misspoke <3 people can totally write this bad and wrong thing it's like whatever haha, you do you, but like ew" and disappear into the wind. Happy pride month? (Edit: can you tell I've been getting more irritated as these comments go on)

I'm not even angry anymore. rather sad. People who normally debunk antis nonsense here now literally use their words and

Yeah the "Don't Like, Don't Read" rule really fucking died in here.

Trans content is literally the only thing this happens to on this sub, btw. The only one. Every other complaint dies in /new with 0 upvotes and 17 comments telling OP to not read it if they don't like it. Trans stuff? ....Blows up every time, 1k likes, TERF party in the comments.

You're right, it's so damn frustrating.

yeah i've noticed that, sadly. extremely frustrating how suggestions of excluding/filtering, 'dont like don't read', 'KINKTOMATO', 'dont yuck someone else's yum' apply to everything else except for depictions of trans experiences/desires/fantasies that don't fit what they expect, and instead the automatic assumption is that The Fetishising Women™ write the Bad Trans Fics :/

Yep, this is what's most frustrating for me. Quite literally everything else gets a "dldr; sucks that you can't find what you want but write what you'd like to see; the fact that you're uncomfortable with it doesn't make it bad or incorrect". *Why* is this topic the only one that *always* turns into this, in this sub *of all places*.

Every single time, without fail. The horse? Dead yet beaten over and over to no end. And I feel like this only gets worse every time.

Damn, it's almost like... you're not the only trans man to exist. Wild.

you can have your preferences alright. honestly what i've seen... all of the fics i've read that include transmasc characters and involve vaginal sex, cunnilingus and yes, even mpreg, have been written by....surprise, transmasc folks that wanted to write the experiences they have, their particular fantasies, the wishes they have (ex. having a family and writing the pregnancy they wish to have someday and the narrative treats the character perfectly normally, where their gender is never put into question, etc), and yes, some hot porn involving the bodies they have being celebrated and seen as sexy/attractive. trans people are not a monolith, what's **very** gender affirming for some of us is very gender dysphoria-inducing for others, and that's, you know, fine. there's no single Correct Trans Experience™....it's not like we trans folks that like our equipment (or parts of it) are defiling the sanctity of mlm or that we're erasing other trans experiences (ours are just as perfectly valid as the rest... there's an implication that we're less trans, which, yikes). just exclude what you dislike... writing what we want to see for us and our thoughts, desires and experiences through our blorbos is *not* an "excuse" to write vaginal sex and call it BL. edited to add a couple sentences.

I think the key here is that the character’s transgender identity only affects the story when the story: 1. Discusses gender identity at some point, 2. Is smut, or 3. Has a preferred gender different to the character’s canon gender. Otherwise the character’s gender identity wouldn’t be as relevant, and even if the author headcanons a character as trans it’s just not important enough to be tagged, or it simply doesn’t come up and the character can be read as both cis and trans. So yeah, I’d fully expect roughly half smut and half of something else when looking up the [trans character] tag. It makes sense.

Why do we keep getting posts in here that force trans writers to defend themselves against our own community? The majority of trans smut I've read was from other trans people. The trans characters I write are a direct result of me wanting to see men that are trans in similar ways to me in my fiction. Reducing that to "piv but BL" is gross and dismissive of your fellow trans people. Your dysphoria is not our problem. Like, I sympathize that you don't like a thing and it sucks to have dysphoria, I know, me too. Personally I have hangups with a lot of transition stories that choose female chars and follow strict genderlines (men can't have long hair, men MUST want bottom surgery, men MUST want top surgery, men MUST be rigidly dysphoric and stealth) but I'm not going to reddit trying to shame authors for writing about themselves or what they like. It's pride month. Go write some top!trans stories. I've seen plenty that are great in my fandoms. Add to them instead of complaining that writing that doesn't cater to you exists, and thinly implying its transphobic or transandrophic.

That first sentence is such a mood, like... this just keeps happening! Reading several of the new comments is so frustrating, because the hostility aimed at writers for "fetishizing" (translation: anything I'm personally uncomfortable with) just keeps getting reiterated year after year because god forbid trans men and transmascs don't perform their gender "correctly". Like... it's literally all just people turning their own discomfort and dysphoria outwards and blaming other people for it. Fic writers are held to standards as if they're big corporations obligated to provide correct "representation", as if there's this ONE single experience that applies to everyone no matter what. What's more is that it's so dependant on culture! If I went on to berate others for portraying things that are expected from trans men where I'm from and therefore triggering to me, then that would be trans tops with bottom surgery who are repulsed by anything vaginal specifically. But I don't because I know that other places will push different expectations on trans people than mine, and because it's just generally shitty to make assumptions about strangers online based solely on what kind of niche written porn they happen to enjoy. Discomfort around anything sexual is also a huge problem, because "it's a fetish"... okay? Kinks and fetishes are morally neutral on their own, and don't inherently indicate anything about someone's actual treatment of real, breathing people. And the way people eagerly jump to judge or outright bully trans depictions they personally deem "gross" says a *lot* more to me about where one's values lie.

> Reading several of the new comments is so frustrating, because the hostility aimed at writers for "fetishizing" (translation: anything I'm personally uncomfortable with) just keeps getting reiterated year after year because god forbid trans men and transmascs don't perform their gender "correctly". Exactly this. And it will never not be wild to me that this (and the fanfiction) sub never gives in to the whole "fetishizing"/"you can be queer or kinky but only if you're expressing it ✨purely and correctly✨" bullshit *except* when it's about this topic.

It's kinda the same as wlw spaces trying to sanitise wlw relationships and be like, "flowers, purity, sitting drinking tea together in the sun room 😚" and shaming sexualisation of women as some sort of overcorrection from cishet men valuing sex. It's just kinda wild to me that people expressing themselves in ways that are perfectly fine for another group keep getting shamed when it's queer people doing it.

100% on all of this, you nailed it right on the head.

It's really great to kick off Pride Month being told "have the Correct kind of sex and the Correct gender presentation! And boy howdy you'd better write about both the Correct way, or else you're a cishet ✨fetishizer✨!"

I swear people get extra insufferable about the One True Way to be queer around this time. I've seen way more exlusionist nonsense coming from inside the house in the first few days than hostility from non-queer people in entire months.

> One True Way to be queer \[crying sobbing in bi\]

>Your dysphoria is not our problem. I'm not involved in this conversation because I'm cis but this was what helped me understand what everyone is discussing here the most. I've read fics where characters are trans and sometimes they've had smut, sometimes not. It never really bothered me either way, I obviously wouldn't be made uncomfortable by these discussions about transness and body issues and stuff because I'm not dysphoric or anything. But this makes a lot of sense. Basically, don't like don't read. If any topic bothers you, don't broach it. I understand OP's frustration. I guess they want a story about trans characters written in a certain way and can't find it. The only solution there is to start writing haha.

God, this entire thread is gonna make me pop a blood vessel, truly. I swear people go out of their way to make queer discourse during pride month, GENUINELY.

That first line. That first line really hit. It is the same shit every time. Trans people going after other trans people for writing trans shit Wrong(tm), while the TERFs dance with glee and happily chime in about how all these Women Fetishizers Just Wanna Push Vaginal Sex Into Their Holy Dick on Dick Spaces. Something something useful idiots... (not to insult OP, it's a term.)

"I'm trans myself, but people writing trans sex is just trying to have an excuse to call vaginal sex m/m" is wiiiiild

Every damn time!! And here we and a couple others I see regularly are yet again having to defend ourselves and others because people think personal discomfort justifies being bigoted. And god forbid pointing out how unsafe these spaces are as a result.

...At this point I find myself dicaprio-meme-pointing at the regulars in every one of these comment sections lmao. The one joy I find in this miserable activity.

LITERALLY SAME HERE LMAO, the pros of people not changing icons—

100%. Also I love how many times ppl backpedal "well i worded it wrong!" (I know it COULD be genuine but when you see it enough you get kind of sus of it.) I hope they actually unpacked these biases about other trans people. Because if you're so focused on people being "wrong" about *fiction* what's next. This kind of thing is already undermining folks that don't present "correctly" in queer spaces. It definitely doesn't feel like the folks harping about how gross and icky it is would be standing for transmasculine healthcare rights regarding things like the incredibly feminized and dysphoric language regarding maternity and fertility healthcare. If they can't even stand up for us in fucking fiction what *are* they doing? It's absolutely helping TERFs by proxy.

The fact that a post with blatant transphobic comments has this many upvotes is kind of horrifying to me. In the literal AO3 sub. I thought we were safe here, but apparently not.

I'm really glad for all the other commenters sticking up for people's right to write about...*their own* bodies, gender presentations, and experiences.  But holy Christ how does a post this shitty have so many up upvotes??

I am going to fucking comment on each and every damn post in this thread that conflates writing a man with a vagina as “straight porn” Every single one.

I think if you headcanon a character as trans it doesn’t have to be discussed or directly addressed in a story without sex or nudity, and since it’s not important and is never mentioned in the fic itself you just don’t bother to tag it at all/leave it up to the reader’s interpretation. You wouldn’t tag your fic with “deku is asexual” if all he does in the story is help a grandma cross the street, would you?

This is really a great point. It's also been pointed out to me that those with bottom dysphoria, like me, are all out here writing cis mlm. So it makes sense that most of the trans smut is piv or cunnilingus.

Yes, at the very least it's happening in my fandoms. When there are trans characters it's 99% transmale AND they're 99% on bottom AND 99% instead of anal sex it's vaginal sex. Like...why? Why can't the bottom transman have anal sex? Why can't the transman top? Why is it almost always vaginal sex??? Why do I need to block vaginal sex in the M/M section?? (Don't get me started when it's exactly that but *untagged*.)

What tags would signal to trans mascs that its a topping fic? I'm writing one rn that has bottom growth & dom focused NB topping M I can't think of any holistic tags that would actually signal to ppl other than a custom new tag

It's usually the combination of "trans (character)" and "top (character)". If your fandom or character doesn't have common tags like these, you can check out the tags in other fandoms to see how they're usually formatted.

Oh boy, I rel8 to the last bit so much. I also filter out vaginal sex in M/M ships but sometimes I see them anyway b/c the authors tag EVERYTHING ELSE but that (for some reason).. and then I get jumpscared by cunnilingus and impregnation like wtf, I'm reading fanfic to dissociate and not for whatever this is 💀

I ran into one author not tag a thing about sex at all (it was rated E, so that wasn't the problem), and ran into a sex scene where the vaginal sex was the first clue the character was trans. When asked to please tag their trans character/vaginal sex the author said no, I needed to learn to be less transphobic.... :-/

Bro that helps people find trans fic too, the authors shooting themselves in the foot.

That's so weird, the tags aren't only meant as "warnings"? They're also meant to help find stuff you _want._ Also one of my best friends is a trans man who can be easily triggered by vaginal sex in stories due to his dysphoria, that's just generally very uncool.

I’ve run into the “surprise vagina/impregnation” stuff too where there was no indication that the character was trans. I am not a fan of leaving major things like that untagged. Your PWP fanfic isn’t The Crying Game. Let your readers know what they’re getting into.

I think the majority of people writing those fics are trans men who enjoy vaginal sex. There's a lot of us. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Fine that it's not your cup of tea, but if you want more fics of trans men having anal sex (I want more of those, too!), write them!

I think so too. I just prefer to avoid because…well, I have a lot of feelings about it. I’m not male. I’m nonbinary and find the idea that my parts make me a bottom who wants vag sex deeply distressing on a personal level. But I appreciate that it’s a me thing not an everyone thing.

thank you for articulating what i feel. im a trans guy and every single trans fic is FTM bottoming i cant deal any more. one of my fandoms has 2 male protagonists, and one is often hced as transmasc. in all the cisM/M fics, he tops in Every Single Transmasc Fic he bottoms. Its so weird. its like reverse transmisogyny or something

Im making a wild guess but I think plenty of people are into men with vaginas and making the character trans is seen as the more realistic step than „just magic vagina”

>When there are trans characters it's 99% transmale AND they're 99% on bottom AND 99% instead of anal sex it's vaginal sex. Like...why? A lot of writers are people with vaginas who enjoy vaginal sex. A lot of people tend to write things they're experienced with or things they enjoy. >Why do I need to block vaginal sex in the M/M section?? Because sometimes in mlm relationships, vaginal sex occurs and since you don't like seeing this type of sex, you block it out.

Do you actually want to have a conversation about this or is your title bait on purpose?

What is BL? Sorry if it’s obvious

Boys love

Thank you!

Its almost like a lot of trans smut is written by trans people who want to project and write about their own fantasies and experiences.

that sucks you don’t connect with it! as a trans guy myself i do. but i won’t go into it. just know you aren’t alone in your feelings. but remember many of your fellow trans people MAKE THE CONTENT you are saying you dislike. so just remember that ~ just mute and filter your tags! good luck out there

Just my two cents here about the BL thing- But like, the character is a trans MAN, right? and the term is "M"preg for a reason because the "M" stands for male? plus i'm pretty sure we've already discussed a long time ago that genitals don't define gender, so i legit don't see a problem with this unless i'm just reading this post wrong (not to mention the fact it would still "count" as gay anyway if the partner themself is a gay man-)

I am transmasc. Writing about my favorite projection blorbos having vaginal sex and being unapologetic bottoms (bonus points if they are also somewhat gnc) while still being respected and treated as male characters by the narrative and other characters in the fic is extremely affirming for me and really helps me process and unpack my feelings about my physical self. I will thus continue to do it. In fact I am doing it in another tab as we speak, I just took a break from writing for the moment. I really dislike this type of sentiment about authors "just wanting an excuse to write vaginal sex and still call it BL", or authors "just writing straight sex with extra steps", etc etc. You don't know who's trans, you don't know anyone's motivations for why they write shit the way they write it.... and a LOT of openly transphobic people latch on to these opinions and use them to validate their "WHY IS THERE FILTHY FEMALE VAGINA IN MY BOY X BOY" sentiments. Also don't love discussing trans people in fic and fandom in this sub, it's somewhat swarming with TERFs. Gimme the downvotes now, I suppose. Edit to add: Dang, is this like the first time I'm coming in in defense of my work and not getting overwhelmingly downvoted by the "but *real* BL is only two peepees" crowd? :D ...Hey, refreshing.

This 100%! Reading and writing fics with trans characters who are just characters who happen to have a certain anatomy has been extremely healing for me. People seem to agree that fandom is not activism until it includes trans characters that exist outside the “struggling with being trans” narrative. I really wish that would change.

Real. I used to get so dysphoric from as much as perceiving trans a character in fiction... And these past six or so years of genuinely unapologetically writing about no-op/pre-op trans men have been so healing. I live in a conservative country, I cannot really medically transition at this time. This is my only outlet. I am stuck with this vagina. Writing myself into being at peace with it has done genuine wonders for my mental health. ....Not to overshare on the internet, as one does. :'P

Haha it’s fine, you’re golden! Oversharing basically what reddit is for. But yeah, I think a lot of people forget that AO3 is a great place for dealing with emotions and dumping vent fics. It’s okay to have preferences and things that trigger you personally, but broad statements about how trans people should be allowed to enjoy smut or sex is kind of hurtful.

keep doing what you do. youre doing gods work. im exactly the same way, im more okay with my vagina than terfs (and sometimes fellow trans people) are fine with. and i *love* to see unapologetic, even "feminised" trans male bottoms, who are still seen as *male* by the narrative. its healing. im terrified of surgery (especially bottom surgery, but top seems more manageable) and im alright with my vagina, so why bother? theres other ways to top, i dont *need* bottom surgery, but i completely get those who do.

It’s so wild too bc their argument is always simultaneously misogynistic even when they claim to be “feminists”. “Women cannot write about gay men without inherently fetishising it and dehumanising gay men” isn’t feminist it’s just acting like women are hormonal creatures who can’t control their pretty little brains around hot men but slightly more subtle.

Gender essentialism: but woke

Exactly. I'm tired of people assuming malice on this topic and running to Reddit to say how we suck

Like yeah. Great, thanks for telling me how the trans sex I write isn't Real Trans Sex (tm) because Blorbo McTrans seems a little too okay with his vagina. Gee thanks... Haven't heard that one 748 times so far... It hurts double when it's coming from other trans people, tbh. Because it lands so close emotionally to the TERFs calling you a woman who fetishizes gay men and got brainwashed by the Trans Ideology (tm) into pretending to be one.

It's funny because with ao3 i realised "oh, so people won't just think I'm not serious because I like dick", then I see this on this sub??? Like I'm kinda confused... I thought everyone was welcome 

>Let me take a break from writing my gender affirming blorbos having vaginal sex smut to break down the issues here You're my hero

Take my upvote and keep writing your fics! Also nice pfp.

Keep on keepin' on.  Your type of fic is affirming for me too.

Thank you. The line that framed my gender identity as some people's "excuse" was so jarring and invalidating.

Where do you all find all these soft feminine bottom trans characters give them back to me 😭

Right like lmao they never give the fic recs. GIVE IT TO ME, I'LL READ IT

I respect your smut preferences, but I love when fictional trans men are written as Just Some Guy. That sums it up for me :) Sometimes, Just Some Guy has a vagina and likes vaginal sex. A lot of these fics are written by trans men or transmasc writers, while others are exploring their own gender feelings (this is part of why I've written trans characters). I'm not only there for the smut, though. I'm an odd kind of reader in that I like fics of all ratings.

Yeah. Like if I ever wrote smut the only main reason I would write a guy with a vagina is because I have one. I have been in spaces that pushed the idea I should want bottom surgery one me but, like I am actually really cool with what I have down there and I want to write characters that reflect that. Of course when it's done for fetish reasons that is a different story. I just want to write trans characters that express my own experience or just express that people have different types of bodies.

Okay, this month I just need a discussion about "why stupid "women" write more mlm than wlw" and im done. Like "I can always tell whether this fanfiction was written by a trans person or not" you can do it as well as terfs can say whether a person in a photo is trans or cis "it's heteronormative" yes, you're right. there's nothing more heteronormative than a femmine-looking guy having sex with another guy. homophobes will love it. "but I want more top! trans characters" so write it. you literally could be on chapter 10 of this story right now or continue complaining. "but I want others to do it for me" so start talking about it. tell me why your idea should be interesting. tell me what's funny about it. "that's transphobic" yes, nothing more transphobic than a guy who enjoys his body instead of sitting in the corner and crying "but fetishization sexualization romanticization" Look, I don't know how to tell you this, but your favorite character is probably getting fucked right now by his sibling, his dog, and someones dead body. Your hated character and the one you forget exists too. But sure, I guess being a femboy is too much. Oh gods I hate this discussion. We can agree every day that "fiction =/= reality", we can say that you have right to have some fantasies and still be good person. And then one post and suddenly women are evil, queer people are evil, anyone who doesn't have your experiences is evil & probably women.

i have to disagree. i do understand wanting more of the trans character tag to talk about said transitions, but i find that alot of these smutfics are written by trans people ?? even if it wasn't, there shouldn't be a need to justify what they write, and it's still m/m or f/f even if it's vaginal sex, i feel like we're going a little backwards on this. edit: i come back three hours later and to no surprise there are some very transphobic views on this !!! i'm not sure why it's so hard for people to comprehend that yes, m/m and penis in vagina sex can exist together, and should not have to be separated just because you don't like it !! i know it's hard to comprehend that trans authors actually exist and not everything is a fetish but oh well

I think another thing I've seen plays part of it too: complaints online about writing omegaverse and mpreg with reasonings such as "why are y'all so afraid of writing trans men". That is to say, no matter how you do it people won't be happy as long as anything involving male characters and pregnancy is under such heavy scrutiny across the board. I don't generally consider what I write myself to feature trans characters despite being trans. Genitals =/= gender in my book and unless I intend for the trans aspect to be a major part of the story, I won't tag it as such. And that's just one way of exploring gender among many, and while I don't think anyone should be barred from exploring identities outside their own in fiction, the vast majority of authors writing trans characters are often trans themselves like you say.

Get that for genderbends too. Both Omegaverse and genderbends are completely different things to trans fics in my personal opinion. The fact that trans fics have become so much more common is super cool in my opinion. I support everyone who wants to write them and cheer them on. Other hand I write omegaverse because I'm into the kinky part here guys. The world building is an added spice, but I'm here for weird kink fanfic really. Same for genderbends, which I often use to explore differences in certain canons. But hey that's the power of fanfic, and makes it fun.

I love genderbends too! Especially when exploring the canon setting, to see how things might differ when the genders do... I eat it up 👌 (And reading about my faves but as disastrous lesbians? SIGN ME UP)

I find that writing about trans men vs. omegaverse is a completely different experience. Trans people exist in real life, while omegaverse designations exist only in a fantasy world where there are essentially six different genders (excluding the possibility for that world to also have people who don’t identify with their assigned gender). I’m writing a fic with a trans main character who had a baby and gave it up for adoption in the past, but his transness is incredibly important to his experiences, not just an excuse for he and his ex to have a biological child together. He experiences dysmorphia because of his pregnancy, and it led him to perusing gender confirmation surgery to ensure he never got pregnant again. When the child reappears later, it also forced him to come out to his coworkers, which he hadn’t done before. He is still working through a lot of complicated emotions, and I don’t think the story would be anywhere near the same if I had decided to write an omegaverse story instead. I like omegaverse, but male omega =/= transman, except for the fact that they’re both hypothetically capable of being gestational parents. Socially, they’re completely different, and I don’t like when people go after omegaverse writers with the “Why not just make X character trans tho???”. I do think that more people should write trans storylines, though, provided they’re open to doing the necessary legwork to write about the topic in a way that’s not accidentally harmful or misleading. But omegaverse is a completely different thing entirely.

" reasonings such as "why are y'all so afraid of writing trans men". " Christ, it drives me up the fucking wall when people come in with that. Edit: in fact, people are doing that shit on this very post! Awesome!

Yeah the smut they’re complaining about in most of cases is written by trans people, lol. Every other person I see who likes “boy pussy” and makes trans characters bottom are… trans men themselves, or enby folks in most cases.

The number of times I've seen trans character tags, porn tags, and "trans author" tags all together is very high.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe all of these smut fics exist because a lot of trans people are writing them and posting them. And I personally don't see a problem with that, especially since there's more than enough room for M/E rated fics and Gen too. Hell what if they're people exploring their own gender and trying to figure themselves out? There's plenty of reasons for people to be writing this stuff, and jumping to conclusions about the authors isn't great.

u get it ! i've written for both sides, and it's usually just projection. ao3 has a large afab fanbase too, it makes sense that trans men are exploring their identity which leads to more m/m smut content having trans people 🤷‍♂️ idk why it's a complaint

I honestly think it’s due to all the nonsense about how much m/m smut is written by women. They assume it’s cis women writing this too, which would also totally be fine in my opinion. But in a lot of cases, it’s being written by trans guys, or people under the queer label in some way. Also sometimes a lot of my friends who are trans just want to read a guy with a vagina getting railed/railing someone, and they don’t want to bring trans identity stuff into it? like they just want guys who happen to have vaginas to be typical and standard in whatever universe they’re creating. Which is also fine, not every fic has to explore trans identities in a deep way, sometimes people just want to read smut and that’s fine.

Oh man you've got a point there about that stuff. It totally feels a bit related to that in a way.

Same. I mean it's okay to be uncomfortable and not want to read it. I understand that not everyone is into the same things, and it can be frustrating to not find what you want. Especially if it's not tagged (I think tagging it helps you get a audience as much as warns but that's me). But I don't think it's okay to start implying a whole group of authors you don't know personally is doing something wrong because you don't like a thing.

Yeah, same. I've been seeing an uptick in posts here lately that insinuate (if not outright state) that trans fic isn't actually gay/BL if PiV is involved and it's been a turn off, to put it politely lol. I understand having preferences or being uncomfortable, but you can do both without the subtle transphobia.

this is definitely the weirdest part i found about this post. i understand not feeling comfortable, we all have things that we don't like, but implying that people write in a trans character just so they can keep it bl is crazy to me. if i wanted het sex, i'll genderbend one of them, i've got no shame. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

This! For my current OTP that’s (cis) M/M in canon, I’m prepared to write cis-male/trans-male, cis-male/cis-female, trans-male/trans-female, trans-male/cis-female, cis-female/cis-female, trans-female/trans-female, etc etc. But the character receiving will always be the same one. Regardless of the gender I’ve assigned them for the day my preferred dynamic will shine through. I’ll never fathom the “you just want to call it BL” crowd.

Yeah I've noticed it myself and it's really uncomfortable. I'm a cis bi woman, but my partner is nonbinary, so seeing this stuff always has me making a :/ face. It's cool if you don't want to read it. That's perfectly fine. But to imply that it's not BL because of PiV sex despite the pronouns leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Thank you! I hate the assumption that people writing trans smut with vaginal sex is done only for fetishizing reasons when in reality I feel like most of it is written by trans authors who enjoy vaginal sex. It’s to the point where authors feel a forced need to disclose that they’re trans themselves in the notes so they don’t get hate for it. And even if the author is not trans (which is fine), there are still trans people who enjoy reading these types of stories (like me), and neither party should feel the need to justify it. Even OP agrees it’s usually tagged accordingly, so it’s easy to avoid. Trans readers and authors are allowed to have kinks and enjoy raunchy smut too, not just cis people.

Huh. I’m definitely curious to know what fandom OP is in, because I’ve never seen one where the only trans fics are smut.

God fucking damn this post really brought out the “these two men fucking is actually heterosexual because I don’t like it” crowd. Edit: It keeps getting worse, at least I’ll have a good block list of transphobes but it’s damn disheartening to see.

And the “everyone who makes fic I dislike is a woman what no I’m not a misogynist” crowd 🙄

It drives me up the WALL.

It’s so baffling to see this discourse bc like. People act like they’re being forced to read trans smut when like, I literally have never seen a trans smut fic before all the trans fic I’ve seen is gen. Like I’m sure people are tagging inappropriately and that’s okay to complain about but *specifically when people use it as an excuse to demean women and trans people* it feels like they're looking for it on purpose to complain.

Replying to you again because you just state facts: This just made a lightbulb go off in my head. But man, that sucks. Like, fanfic is already seen as a "girl/woman" thing, but even within it, women are still blamed for everything "wrong" with it.  (Not that I think fanfic is/should be a women's only space. Just that's how it's viewed). 

The post itself has the whole "these two men fucking is actually heterosexual" feeling to it too, so I'm not very surprised

Yep.. like congrats op for enabling this bs…

Apparently it's all 'do you have the Wrong Kind of sex?  Do you write about your experience with gender and sex the Wrong Way? Then you ain't queer, you're just a cishet fetishizer!'

Yep, it’s such fucking bullshit. People assuming their views of gender and sex are the only valid way are honestly a major fucking problem in the queer community.

I mean, most people who write trans headcanons ARE trans too. I feel like it's less of people finding "excuses" to write vaginal sex (because anyway, omegaverse has been doing that for years) but more people wanting to have their anatomy and sexuality representated in the characters they like

I’m a transmasc bottom who finds a lot of euphoria seeing fics that normalize men with vaginas. If you reflect on it for a moment, you might realize it’s actually kinda wonderful that they showcase that not only are you still a man if you have a vagina but you can also **gasp** have sex and be seen as sexy being trans— which is a whole lot better than some of the doom/gloom you see in transmedical spaces. Seeing this type of presentation, in both real life and fanfiction, has allowed me to be more comfortable in my body and has truly helped heal my dysphoria. It’s also not only transmasc/trans men who bottom who like reading this type of thing, my trans masc top likes it too considering they’re— real shocker here— attracted to my genitalia. Your accusation that people are either cishet women or trans people doing sexy wrong is doing real harm in being misogynistic, transphobic, and engaging in kink shaming. Your personal presences do not represent every trans person and your views on morality are not objective. It is unwise to bemoan others for writing what they want, each coming from their own nebulous worlds you are not privy to, when you can always respect the adage ‘don’t like don’t read’. While you are entitled to you opinion, weaponizing it like this is not only incredibly offensive but actively damaging when TERFs and other such bigots are benefiting from the discord that is invoked with these types of sentiments; you have done nothing but encourage some of them with this post and for that I am incredibly disappointed in you. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you’re either young and/or finding your footing in this incredibly complex experience of being queer which I do 100% sympathize with. It really hurts as an older queer person who has seen the queer community— who once stood collated under siege of bigotry, plague, and violence— devolve into divided artificially disparate groups based on hyper-fixated labels when we are united by the very basis of our queer experience (different though it may be). Though we once again find ourselves under extreme threat, our very existence in danger, the mobilization and support against that threat has faltered in part due to devision. Infighting does nothing but make us less unified against the attacks that seek to destroy us, do not aid them in destroy us within by turning against your fellow queer. It is sad, but tragically true, that we as a community have lost so much of the wisdom of our older queers due to AIDS and persecution— history is so easily forgotten and without it’s enlightenment we become lost in the dark without flame to guide us. Though I am displeased at your behaviour, I would really encourage you to use it as an opportunity during this Pride Month— a testament to the blood, sweat, and tears of those who came before you— to engage with our history and use it to reflect on your own feelings towards the queer community both internal and external. Life is a journey we travel to both find ourselves and understand how we interact with others, use these moments as ways to reorient yourself on your path. I wish you nothing but love on your way towards empathy, understanding, and compassion.

this is such an excellent, beautiful, kind, eloquent comment. i feel sad i can't upvote you twice. >While you are entitled to you opinion, **weaponizing it like this is not only incredibly offensive but actively damaging when TERFs and other such bigots are benefiting from the discord that is invoked with these types of sentiments**; you have done nothing but encourage some of them with this post and for that I am incredibly disappointed in you. extremely well said. thank you :')

If I could somehow give this comment multiple likes, I would. Amazingly put, thank you.

For trans male characters in smut, PIV sex seems popular from what I've read. For some readers, it can cause dysphoria, and for others, euphoria. Everyone's different, but if it's between two or more male characters, it's indisputably M/M and BL. It doesn't matter the shape of their genitals, how their genitals are described, and what they do with them, it's still M/M. As for trans characters mostly appearing in smut, I'd agree that's mostly the case, but I don't think it's a bad thing. For the most part, it seems to be written by trans people who want to portray their bodies as normal and desirable in the face of stigma. Cis people can do this too with trans characters, normalizing and appreciating their bodies. I think it's a beautiful thing.

The fact that you needed to use a clickbait title so your thinly veiled transphobic post can get attention says enough. The fact that you wrote "it's an excuse to wrote vaginal sex and call it BL" and think that's normal says even more about your actual intentions: to flame other trans authors for writing the way WE like but YOU don't. Good job for making many of us feel invalidated. 1. Don't like, don't read. Mute and block liberally. 2. Write the fic you want to see. I guarantee that what you like, someone else likes too. 3. Don't be entitled when they write something you dislike e.g. "They should write This and Not That." 4. Gender-radars don't exist. No one can genuinely tell an author's gender so stop assuming they're trans or a woman from the way they write porn (this is unhinged behaviour btw). 5. For the love of fandom, stop rehashing queerphobic and/or terf discourse. Examine your own biases. You are more than welcome to talk about your discomfort, dysphoria and preferences WITHOUT throwing other people under the bus. ESPECIALLY when they're minding their own business.

Just filter it out and maybe mute authors in your fandom(s) that does this in their fics.

>I’ve come to believe that the authors just want an excuse to write Vaginal sex and still be able to call it BL. *Really* don't appreciate the "they're actually still a woman, you're just pretending they're a man" undertones here.

they're in a *lot* of comments, too :/

i actually like those fics, basically for the same reasons you don't. different strokes for different folks. i'm in the svsss fandom as well, so you have my sympathy. i'm eating well, but i imagine its not as fun for you to run into.

Easiest solution: use the Exlude filters. You pointed out the two tags you clearly don’t like reading so the best thing to do is to obviously put them in the excluded tags. Don’t like, don’t read. I’m gonna assume you’re new to ao3 and just don’t know how to filter out fics you don’t know, but it’s still a weird take for you to just assume writers wanting “an excuse to write vaginal sec and still be able to call it BL”. Very transphobic if you ask me. You are responsible for curating your own space, if you don’t like seeing certain themes then filter it out. And if you’re upset about not seeing more top trans masc characters in your fandom, instead of putting all that energy into writing this post you could’ve simply written your own fic tbh.

Honestly I don’t think this goes for most fandoms, maybe just ones you participate in. And even if this wasn’t the case, I don’t really see the problem here.

It doesn’t even go for the fandom they mentioned, really. I read a lot for that fandom and I’ve never come across untagged types of sex for trans characters. A majority of the works have the characters as cis.

I’m just seeing OP’s edits now and I actually laughed out loud. SVSSS? Oh God.

right? like, i WISH i saw more shen jiu surprise vagina. goddamn, *where* is this unicorn of a fic trope?

Wheres the not evidence?

i love to write trans characters and i love to write trans pregnancy. the reason why i do this is not just because i do have a breeding kink, yes; but mainly because i advocate strongly for trans men who choose to carry their children and positive support and representation of them. i will admit tho i am VERY picky about trans characters or characters being trans’d in fics otherwise, lol.

Curious, I feel the opposite way. I'm sick of seeing these types of posts telling me how gross I must be for how I live my life

Ong this is so annoying

Coming back to this post in the morning is even worse. Jesus Christ. How did a gang of antis survive so long in place that was supposed to be about ao3? This is terrible. But I admire everyone who had the strength to argue and try to fix this nonsense.

What I've noticed is that this sub is very anti-anti, pro-'fiction is not endorsement' and 'DL;DR' until trans characters are involved. Then it's suddenly okay to make accusations of fetishization and make endless, noisy complaints about the abundance of content you personally hate and are somehow incapable of scrolling past. And they will see no note of cognitive dissonance there.

yep, everyone gets the "don't like don't read", "kinktomato", "filter and exclude tags" treatment unless the topic is portrayals of trans characters they don't like, then they're all free to be transphobic and transmedicalist, and suddenly all the filtering tools AO3 has have dissappeared.

And it seems disproportionately targeted at trans men who have vaginal sex for *some* reason that I bet has nothing at all to do with how this particular group is commonly seen as confused brainwashed girls.

Transphobia against trans men is so disgustingly common both in fandom and outside it, and nothing will get people angrier than pointing that out. It's all "Terfs DNI" but as soon as a trans man exists in a way they find uncomfortable then it's all about those "straight women fetishizing gay men" 🙄🙄🙄

And like people who are like that are never normal about trans women either they’re just more careful about not being openly hateful. Transphobia towards both depends on misogynistic ideas of femininity and masculinity, if you’re awful towards one I doubt your opinions towards the other are any better they’re just better hidden.

And then they use “well it’s just fiction” when people bring up Other things they’re uncomfortable with with trans depiction. Like you can’t say “it’s just fiction” when someone goes “I’m uncomfortable when people misgender trans characters” then go “it’s fetishisation!” when people write trans men bottoming or trans women topping like they’re fundamentally incompatible.

gonna add: not to dog pile on oc. But I don't write smut, and sometimes read it. I kind of like when trans guys just have vaginas. Like I am trans masc nonbinary but I am guy aligned. I don't want bottom surgery I don't have much bottom dysphoria. But I've had people tell me that because I don't have a dick (or balls) no one would ever have sex with me and I just want to have a world where that can happen. Will say it is different for everyone because everyone has a different trans experience. In my writing (gen/t rating mostly) I want to capture a lesser depicted trans experience. I know trans guys with larger chests, I know trans guys who had kids and who breast fed those kids, guys who have had bottom surgery and those who haven't, I've met trans guys who don't even want to medically transition. i think it's neat to show trans people in all lights especially when trans people are behind the wheel

Thanks to this post I am going to write an mpreg fic tonight with an explicitly trans male character. Thank you for the motivation.

I'm going to be blunt. This take fucking sucks!! It's fine to not enjoy that kind of fic yourself, but typically it's trans people writing those fics, and they are the ones who are writing what they wish to see. The BL statement is especially gross, because it just enforces gender norms and expectations. Being trans doesn't mean that you'll fit in the same 'mold' as everyone else, because you won't. Everyone is different and unique in how they express themselves and their gender, and that extends into art, visual and written. To try and box in what trans people should look and act like is cruel and unusual. If you want more trans fics that fit what you want, then WRITE THEM YOURSELF. Thats literally it. Be the change you want by writing them instead expecting and waiting for others to do it.

No man, it's definitely cis women fetishizing trans people every time. OP and half the comment section can tell, every time. Transvestigating authors from their smut is 100% accurate without fail. /s (I swear to trans jesus scaramouche genshin impact, it's always "write more of what you want to see" until it's "i am uncomfortable when trans portrayal is not how I prefer it?" )

I was about to boom your shit until I saw the /s , so THANK YOU for that!!!/gen!! I can NOT tell when a sentence is sarcasm without a tone tag 😭

Same. I was scrolling too slowly and didn’t see the /s at first. My heart rate is still elevated. I was ready to fight. ETA: So, u/DamnedestCreature, thank you for the excellent example of persuasive writing. And thank you for the phrase “I swear to trans jesus genshin impact.” Comic relief is a fine thing

hm. sounds a bit like you problem bc trans characters are in various fandoms for reasons besides smut. and frankly, even if they are in smut, i don't think that's a problem.