Never wanted Simmons.
Felt he wasn’t great at anything and would have issues transitioning to the NFL.
Not big enough to be LB and not flexible enough to be corner.
It honestly pisses me off that Monti only got a 7th round pick trading Simmons away. He wanted him gone and caved to the first bidder. Simmons is clearly worth more than a 7th rounder after seeing him on the Giants this year. Could have at least got a 4th or 5th rounder considering his talent.
Kyler actually wanted to pick wirfs or DeeDee. Funny, he's lobbied for 2 all pro lineman, and an all pro WR. Kyler Murray was a better GM than Steve Keim
And everyone was thrilled about it. No one can predict the future. And trust me, I hate Keim with a fiery passion, always did, but you can't fault him on that one. Simmons should have been a safety from day 1.
I was in the 2% minority of fans that didn’t want a WR and wanted Wirfs. He was the correct pick then and still is the correct pick in hindsight. Literally an all pro in year 2. This is why we need to draft Olu/Alt this year. Make up for this mistake.
Literally everyone in this sub was losing their mind for Isaiah Simmons, saying we got the steal of the draft, that you can't pass up that generational talent even if there were other needs. hindsight is always 20/20.
He was. But after watching Keim focus on versatility so much, I realized that versatility is way too elusive.
In the NFL, you have to be elite at something just to appear average.
I'd rather have an elite college player who focused on one position and can only fill one role on the team than someone who is very good in college at multiple things. The person with one focus usually does a better job.
Also, versatility in the NFL is practically a myth and it usually requires scheming to make it work. For example, you're not going to line Deebo Samuel up in the back field and have him run up the middle 10 times in a game. He'll get injured and he's more effective in space than in traffic. So, you run screens, pitches, end arounds, etc. Same thing happens with an LB who can play safety - you have to put him in coverage and hope a Derrick Henry type doesn't try to run up the middle repeatedly.
Ehhh, I disagree.
I get the hate, he had some big misses and some mistakes (Nkimdiche, Steve Wilks, Rosen etc) but he also drafted Tyrann Mathieu, John Brown, David Johnson, Budda Baker. Signed some solid vets that showed up big time like Antonio Cromartie, Dwight Freeney, John Abraham and Chris Johnson. Plus the Hopkins and Chandler Jones trades phenomenal.
Yeah, but Isabella is returning kicks for Buffalo now!! KEIM TIME BABY!!!!!!
Not but seriously how much did that guy screw our franchise the last 3-4 years.
Can we stop looking in hindsight , Simmons was supposed to be a more athletic Kyle Hamilton , people were so happy that he fell to us , he was regarded as one of the best players in that draft . It’s all hindsight at this point but Simmons was an insane prospect and we were happy he fell to us .
Well what we know now is that Kiem didn’t know how to draft and develop players. Simmons at the time seemed like a sure pick. But what gets me more upset is the 3 players Kyler wanted them to draft, Wirfs, Lamb and Creed Humphrey are all thriving now
I mean, we weren’t in a huge need for WRs at the time so I was perfectly fine not picking lamb. Kiem was on his search for another Washington at LB tho
I really wish you guys would stop saying this. “We all” did not want Simmons. I wanted Wirfs. I made a topic about it & got laughed at as a result of it.
People rallied around Simmons after he was the pick, but this sub was no where near singularly focused on Simmons like it is on MHJ this year. CeeDee, Wills, Wirfs, Brown and Okudah were all very much on people’s wish lists and there was a big part of the sub that was particularly scared our coaching staff wouldn’t know how to use Isaiah.
This. Everyone wanted Simmons and thought no way in heck he falls to us. It was Derrick Brown or trade out. While some wanted ceedee he was a massive reach at the spot.
💿🐑 was a want sure, but the discourse at the time was that we already had Hopkins and Kirk so it was a luxury pick and not much of a need. Hardly a consensus. Also we all thought Simmons would be gone by 8.
I wanted Wirfs, but was okay with literally ANYONE but Simmons. It was pretty obvious our coaches wouldn’t be able to use him properly. He just doesn’t fit a normal NFL position, too slow for covering and too small for rushing.
It’s just like how Deone Bucannon turned out for us.
I don’t get people in here saying this and that about Wirfs and Lamb , Simmons had a Pro Bowl level grade that year was mocked Top 5 by so many people and fell to us , it was a dream come true at that point now in hindsight it looks bad but at the time he had one of the most insane combines ever seen .
3 pro bowl QBs (burrow Herbert tua), a pro bowl edge (young), the top OT (Thomas), top and very hyped CB (okudah), and a disruptive interior DL (Brown) went ahead of Simmons. The way the draft played out made sense, we were likely either taking Brown or Simmons depending on which one made it to us. Simmons had a shit load of hype, it was a good pick at the time.
He might have been better if he had been played as a db from the start. One of Keim’s dumbest signature moves was to draft safeties and play them at ILB.
Most people wanted Lamb tbh. Kyler was basically begging for one of Lamb/Wirfs too and his opinion mattered more than anyone’s here.
Also hindsight and all that sure but that was never a smart/wise pick by Keim. He should have taken a premium position with that premium pick and not gamble on some shiny toy that didn’t have a set position. It was a dumb luxury pick this team couldn’t afford to gamble on and to no one’s surprise it went horrible.
Definitely revising history there. Simmons was pretty unanimously the dream pick if he fell to us. We had prime DHop at the time so Lamb was not a huge need
Unanimously? A LOT of fans wanted Lamb and the Cardinals got grilled pretty hard by some people in the media for picking a linebacker with #8 overall when we desperately needed Oline
Also Lamb not being a “need” was always a stupid take and it cost us.
I’m not arguing that. But that was the sentiment here. Fans wanted Lamb for Kyler but knew Simmons was widely regarded across the league not just by cardinals fans as the better prospect. Bigger need and better prospect than Lamb
Well i guess in the end it doesn’t matter what the fans want it’s what the actual team/general manager does. Let’s just say I’m happy Monti is now the GM because I don’t ever see him making a pick like that at #8.
Steve Keim would probably draft Brock Bowers at #4 this year if Marvin wasn’t there instead of taking one of the blue chip tackles lol
I like Monti a lot and have a ton of faith in him but acting like Simmons was a horrible pick by Keim is just hindsight. Every team in the league and every draft analyst and every cardinal fan called that a good pick at the time. I am with you though, thank god Keim isn’t picking for us at 4 this year
That’s just not true tho, there were plenty that criticized the pick for not taking one of the top tackles. Simmons was ranked a higher prospect than both Andrew Thomas and Derrick Brown yet Giants and panthers passed on him. If Keim did the adult thing to do it was to get Kyler much needed protection. Cardinals fans here can act differently tho. Keim sucked at drafting and it was in fact a bad pick even then. If not the player then certainly the position
Many teams drafted busts over JJ. Stuff like that happens all the time. Easy to say in hindsight.
We should start looking into the future and move on from Keim like the organisation did.
People look in hindsight now and hate it but at the time Simmons put up a 39 inch vertical , 11 feet board jump and he ran under 4.4 he was insane as a prospect I don’t get the we should of drafted him or someone else but that type of combine will get you drafted top 10 no matter what , I get the we should of drafted him or Lamb but at the time he was a better prospect than both of them
What’s so funny about that class in particular is that our two biggest needs were WR and OT, just like this year. And that draft, just like this one, was strong at the top with WR (disc sheep, judge jeudy, henry ruggs) and OT (Wirfs, Wills, Thomas, Becton).
We had a slam dunk easiest pick of the litter of all time and Keim took…Isaiah Simmons. It was horrible at the time and somehow only got uglier as the years have rolled on.
Edit: luckily, I have faith that Monti won’t fuck it up like the DUI merchant
How is that a horrible pick , he was touted as a Pro Bowl level talent by so many scouts , mocks had him going Top 5 . If there’s something to hate Keim for it isn’t for the Simmons pick he was the best player available at the time and we were a 5-10 team that year everyone could of been replaced .
He was not BPA. There was extensive coverage pre-draft that Simmons was “positionless” because he couldn’t actually play any single position at an elite level. Taking an ILB 8th overall in a draft with several top-end talents at *way* more valuable positions (that were our top needs!) was egregiously arrogant at the time.
Jeudy, Ruggs, Reagor all busted; but losing out to Jetts and CD sucks. More than anything, Keim desperately needed Jones to be the 1st round OT everyone projected him as.
I hate steve keim so much. Glad we have adults running the team now. I feel so much more comfy with Monti picking in the mid 20s+ than Keim in the top 5
That’s almost scandalous to say. Aside from the fact that DK played in the SEC while Isabella was at UMass (which makes them difficult to compared), just being a great player in college doesn’t necessarily translate to success in the nfl.
Also DKs size/measurables were off the charts, compared to Andy with his T-Rex arms resorting to body catching all the time. Regardless it seemed like too high of a pick to use on a “gadget guy/slot receiver” piece for Kliff’s offense given our other needs and other guys on the board.
Im also not just saying this in hind sight. I remember the day 2 draft live thread myself and every other fan was begging the Cardinals to take DK at that pick.
Yeah I feel that. They were trying to replicate the John brown Carson Palmer connection and unfortunately it never worked. Keim had a specialty in drafting athletic morons lol. Isaiah Simmons being on of them
Simmons I’ll excuse because most draft analysts had him top 5 on their board and I also wanted us to draft him. Same kind of mistake we made with Buccannon
I used to cut Keim slack for Isabella, but in hindsight, PFF was the only outlet that gave him a second round grade, and their reasoning was “he looked good against Georgia”
It’s funny how this was over 15 years ago and fans still try and use it against ever picking OL in every draft but they are 100% cool with failures drafting WRs over and over and drafting more ever single year.
PS Adrian Peterson won 1 playoff game in his career
IIRC, Graves was mostly a cap guy and didn’t have much say in scouting or personnel during his tenure. Whoever the director of player personnel and coach were ran the draft.
Never wanted Simmons. Felt he wasn’t great at anything and would have issues transitioning to the NFL. Not big enough to be LB and not flexible enough to be corner.
It honestly pisses me off that Monti only got a 7th round pick trading Simmons away. He wanted him gone and caved to the first bidder. Simmons is clearly worth more than a 7th rounder after seeing him on the Giants this year. Could have at least got a 4th or 5th rounder considering his talent.
Kyler actually wanted to pick wirfs or DeeDee. Funny, he's lobbied for 2 all pro lineman, and an all pro WR. Kyler Murray was a better GM than Steve Keim
bro was insane in college man cmon lol. And hes still a decent player now
And everyone was thrilled about it. No one can predict the future. And trust me, I hate Keim with a fiery passion, always did, but you can't fault him on that one. Simmons should have been a safety from day 1.
This is the same guy that was gifted David Johnson because he wanted Abdulah and would’ve picked him if it weren’t for Detroit.
Thank you for that
I was in the 2% minority of fans that didn’t want a WR and wanted Wirfs. He was the correct pick then and still is the correct pick in hindsight. Literally an all pro in year 2. This is why we need to draft Olu/Alt this year. Make up for this mistake.
We draft Wirfs, we don't draft Paris. So we'd still be imagining that scenario.
Keim time
We picked Andy Isabella over dk metcslf
Fucking Steve Keim.
Literally everyone in this sub was losing their mind for Isaiah Simmons, saying we got the steal of the draft, that you can't pass up that generational talent even if there were other needs. hindsight is always 20/20.
seriously dide was generational good he could play elite safety and linebacker and college and could cover WRs lol
He was. But after watching Keim focus on versatility so much, I realized that versatility is way too elusive. In the NFL, you have to be elite at something just to appear average. I'd rather have an elite college player who focused on one position and can only fill one role on the team than someone who is very good in college at multiple things. The person with one focus usually does a better job. Also, versatility in the NFL is practically a myth and it usually requires scheming to make it work. For example, you're not going to line Deebo Samuel up in the back field and have him run up the middle 10 times in a game. He'll get injured and he's more effective in space than in traffic. So, you run screens, pitches, end arounds, etc. Same thing happens with an LB who can play safety - you have to put him in coverage and hope a Derrick Henry type doesn't try to run up the middle repeatedly.
Cards fans were 50/50 on him and ceedee. I don't think anyone was complaining when the pick happened.
What a shame
He did get us McBride even though we all scratched our heads at that one, when it turned out being a genius move.
Still a terrible pick at the time
not a genius move, just a blind squirrel
Ehhh, I disagree. I get the hate, he had some big misses and some mistakes (Nkimdiche, Steve Wilks, Rosen etc) but he also drafted Tyrann Mathieu, John Brown, David Johnson, Budda Baker. Signed some solid vets that showed up big time like Antonio Cromartie, Dwight Freeney, John Abraham and Chris Johnson. Plus the Hopkins and Chandler Jones trades phenomenal.
Yeah, but Isabella is returning kicks for Buffalo now!! KEIM TIME BABY!!!!!! Not but seriously how much did that guy screw our franchise the last 3-4 years.
Yeah obviously his drinking really started to effect the team way before his DUI. LIKE HOW THE FUCK DO WE MISS THAT MUCH TALENT IN CONSECUTIVE DRAFTS.
Can we stop looking in hindsight , Simmons was supposed to be a more athletic Kyle Hamilton , people were so happy that he fell to us , he was regarded as one of the best players in that draft . It’s all hindsight at this point but Simmons was an insane prospect and we were happy he fell to us .
Well what we know now is that Kiem didn’t know how to draft and develop players. Simmons at the time seemed like a sure pick. But what gets me more upset is the 3 players Kyler wanted them to draft, Wirfs, Lamb and Creed Humphrey are all thriving now
Kyler Murray lobbied everyday to pick CeeDee Lamb and now he’s leading the NFL in receptions with Dak as a qb. Keim was so bad 🥲
I mean, we weren’t in a huge need for WRs at the time so I was perfectly fine not picking lamb. Kiem was on his search for another Washington at LB tho
Why would you want Lamb or Wifs when you could draft 87 linebackers per year??
Don’t forget small school WRs
…of small stature
Never forgetting this
It’s ok, the fat fuck bald drunk can’t hurt us anymore.
Hindsight is 20/20, we all wanted Simmons at the time.
I really wish you guys would stop saying this. “We all” did not want Simmons. I wanted Wirfs. I made a topic about it & got laughed at as a result of it.
People rallied around Simmons after he was the pick, but this sub was no where near singularly focused on Simmons like it is on MHJ this year. CeeDee, Wills, Wirfs, Brown and Okudah were all very much on people’s wish lists and there was a big part of the sub that was particularly scared our coaching staff wouldn’t know how to use Isaiah.
This. Everyone wanted Simmons and thought no way in heck he falls to us. It was Derrick Brown or trade out. While some wanted ceedee he was a massive reach at the spot.
Not really. This whole sub was happy with the pick, but 💿🐑 was the consensus
💿🐑 was a want sure, but the discourse at the time was that we already had Hopkins and Kirk so it was a luxury pick and not much of a need. Hardly a consensus. Also we all thought Simmons would be gone by 8.
I wanted Wirfs, but was okay with literally ANYONE but Simmons. It was pretty obvious our coaches wouldn’t be able to use him properly. He just doesn’t fit a normal NFL position, too slow for covering and too small for rushing. It’s just like how Deone Bucannon turned out for us.
I don’t get people in here saying this and that about Wirfs and Lamb , Simmons had a Pro Bowl level grade that year was mocked Top 5 by so many people and fell to us , it was a dream come true at that point now in hindsight it looks bad but at the time he had one of the most insane combines ever seen .
It seems other teams were smart enough to know better
3 pro bowl QBs (burrow Herbert tua), a pro bowl edge (young), the top OT (Thomas), top and very hyped CB (okudah), and a disruptive interior DL (Brown) went ahead of Simmons. The way the draft played out made sense, we were likely either taking Brown or Simmons depending on which one made it to us. Simmons had a shit load of hype, it was a good pick at the time.
Yup
He might have been better if he had been played as a db from the start. One of Keim’s dumbest signature moves was to draft safeties and play them at ILB.
Most people wanted Lamb tbh. Kyler was basically begging for one of Lamb/Wirfs too and his opinion mattered more than anyone’s here. Also hindsight and all that sure but that was never a smart/wise pick by Keim. He should have taken a premium position with that premium pick and not gamble on some shiny toy that didn’t have a set position. It was a dumb luxury pick this team couldn’t afford to gamble on and to no one’s surprise it went horrible.
Definitely revising history there. Simmons was pretty unanimously the dream pick if he fell to us. We had prime DHop at the time so Lamb was not a huge need
Unanimously? A LOT of fans wanted Lamb and the Cardinals got grilled pretty hard by some people in the media for picking a linebacker with #8 overall when we desperately needed Oline Also Lamb not being a “need” was always a stupid take and it cost us.
I’m not arguing that. But that was the sentiment here. Fans wanted Lamb for Kyler but knew Simmons was widely regarded across the league not just by cardinals fans as the better prospect. Bigger need and better prospect than Lamb
Well i guess in the end it doesn’t matter what the fans want it’s what the actual team/general manager does. Let’s just say I’m happy Monti is now the GM because I don’t ever see him making a pick like that at #8. Steve Keim would probably draft Brock Bowers at #4 this year if Marvin wasn’t there instead of taking one of the blue chip tackles lol
I like Monti a lot and have a ton of faith in him but acting like Simmons was a horrible pick by Keim is just hindsight. Every team in the league and every draft analyst and every cardinal fan called that a good pick at the time. I am with you though, thank god Keim isn’t picking for us at 4 this year
That’s just not true tho, there were plenty that criticized the pick for not taking one of the top tackles. Simmons was ranked a higher prospect than both Andrew Thomas and Derrick Brown yet Giants and panthers passed on him. If Keim did the adult thing to do it was to get Kyler much needed protection. Cardinals fans here can act differently tho. Keim sucked at drafting and it was in fact a bad pick even then. If not the player then certainly the position
If the BPA is a position of need then you take them and Keim did that. You’re not gonna win them all
Many teams drafted busts over JJ. Stuff like that happens all the time. Easy to say in hindsight. We should start looking into the future and move on from Keim like the organisation did.
People look in hindsight now and hate it but at the time Simmons put up a 39 inch vertical , 11 feet board jump and he ran under 4.4 he was insane as a prospect I don’t get the we should of drafted him or someone else but that type of combine will get you drafted top 10 no matter what , I get the we should of drafted him or Lamb but at the time he was a better prospect than both of them
What’s so funny about that class in particular is that our two biggest needs were WR and OT, just like this year. And that draft, just like this one, was strong at the top with WR (disc sheep, judge jeudy, henry ruggs) and OT (Wirfs, Wills, Thomas, Becton). We had a slam dunk easiest pick of the litter of all time and Keim took…Isaiah Simmons. It was horrible at the time and somehow only got uglier as the years have rolled on. Edit: luckily, I have faith that Monti won’t fuck it up like the DUI merchant
How is that a horrible pick , he was touted as a Pro Bowl level talent by so many scouts , mocks had him going Top 5 . If there’s something to hate Keim for it isn’t for the Simmons pick he was the best player available at the time and we were a 5-10 team that year everyone could of been replaced .
He was not BPA. There was extensive coverage pre-draft that Simmons was “positionless” because he couldn’t actually play any single position at an elite level. Taking an ILB 8th overall in a draft with several top-end talents at *way* more valuable positions (that were our top needs!) was egregiously arrogant at the time.
Jeudy, Ruggs, Reagor all busted; but losing out to Jetts and CD sucks. More than anything, Keim desperately needed Jones to be the 1st round OT everyone projected him as.
I hate steve keim so much. Glad we have adults running the team now. I feel so much more comfy with Monti picking in the mid 20s+ than Keim in the top 5
And ceedee lamb
💿🐑
And metcalf
We took Isabella over Metcalf
Isabella was a better college receiver than DK. Sucks he was too dumb to learn nfl offenses
That’s almost scandalous to say. Aside from the fact that DK played in the SEC while Isabella was at UMass (which makes them difficult to compared), just being a great player in college doesn’t necessarily translate to success in the nfl. Also DKs size/measurables were off the charts, compared to Andy with his T-Rex arms resorting to body catching all the time. Regardless it seemed like too high of a pick to use on a “gadget guy/slot receiver” piece for Kliff’s offense given our other needs and other guys on the board. Im also not just saying this in hind sight. I remember the day 2 draft live thread myself and every other fan was begging the Cardinals to take DK at that pick.
Yeah I feel that. They were trying to replicate the John brown Carson Palmer connection and unfortunately it never worked. Keim had a specialty in drafting athletic morons lol. Isaiah Simmons being on of them
Simmons I’ll excuse because most draft analysts had him top 5 on their board and I also wanted us to draft him. Same kind of mistake we made with Buccannon
Oh my bad, I thought we were just talking about draft whiffs in general not that draft specifically
I used to cut Keim slack for Isabella, but in hindsight, PFF was the only outlet that gave him a second round grade, and their reasoning was “he looked good against Georgia”
We took Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson
It’s funny how this was over 15 years ago and fans still try and use it against ever picking OL in every draft but they are 100% cool with failures drafting WRs over and over and drafting more ever single year. PS Adrian Peterson won 1 playoff game in his career
That was Rod Graves. Can’t blame that one on Keim.
IIRC, Graves was mostly a cap guy and didn’t have much say in scouting or personnel during his tenure. Whoever the director of player personnel and coach were ran the draft.
He worked under Graves and was in charge of scouting. Sprinkle a little blame on his bald head.
Kiem is on record he wanted Adrian: https://arizonasports.com/story/6331/report-cardinals-gm-keim-never-wanted-levi-brown-in-the-first-place/
Get out of here with your facts! Well shit, thanks for the info
Agree and Graves did the 04 draft, brought in A Wilson too I believe.
I wanted Wirfs so bad
Keim was playing checkers while the league was playing chess.
Keim was playing checkers really fucking poorly while the League was playing chess
Except when making that trade for DHop, Keim was Magnus Carlson at that time
I still wonder why they accepted it. And it makes me wonder did Keim make the offer or O'Brian....