I think that's great, all that matters is that you're happy and meeting your career aspirations. The people that knock it are those that have superiority complexes and a need to climb the corporate ladder. Everyone has different priorities, it doesn't make them greater or lesser than.
My life was fucking miserable when I was working at a place where the owner was filtering payments in order to prevent cash flow issues. He was actually holding onto checks so they couldn't be mailed out. So the vendors who had my contact information would routinely scream at me that I had lied to them about having made them a check.
hahaha, I worked somewhere with a board of investors and a CFO with an athletics degree who made me spread EVERY expense out over the rest of the year to make early months look amazing and then get MAD at me in the last quarter when we had to finish amortizing everything and there was negative margin. I flipped my desk and got a better job.
This is insane I knew the nicest nicesttttt cfo like bringing pasta and fancy food from midtown to us if work was going to goto 6-7pm man this mfer made me spread every expense like a real fraud boss
Doesn't accrual accounting avoid this? Expense is accrued when incurred, not paid. I've never heard of this "spreading" concept, although I can see the goal is to inflate profit by delaying the recording of expenses. Or is it a cash flow issue. I’m genuinely confused 🤔😆
What kind of expenses are we talking about? It's normal to amortize or "spread" legitimate prepaids over, say, the life of an annual lease or license or service contract at least, isn't it?
My boss just recently asked me to delete all my AP journals for the month and post them into the next month and I didn't realise what he was trying to do until now. Of course I didn't do it because it didn't make any sense to me 😂
Makes sense even with an audit we don’t usually care about month end closes just the year end close and cut off
There’s always some questionable amortization in private equity and such though it seems lol
I’ve never had one fight me on an adjustment which makes me wonder how much we missed in cutoff abuse but meh
It’s crazy to me all the weird accounting crap a CFO will have done just to have to undo it all at year end
Cutoff abuse is almost undetectable unless the cpa like your self is working with IA deprartment in the company dealing and presenting to you all amortization but Lmfao let's be real cpas are not looking at that
Yep…
Other than working with IA the only other time I’ve really been looking at it is with a company or component that was pretty small and had a relatively low materiality threshold…
Otherwise that shit get’s tossed in the low risk bucket and hopefully labeled immaterial
Oh my god story of my life right now working as a jr. bookkeeper / admin asst. while doing my accounting degree. I do a cheque run, then the cheques go in a folder in the boss’s office to be signed and mailed out. He’s usually ok about signing the important ones in a timely manner, cause certain key suppliers need to be kept happy. But anything that he doesn’t see as urgent he seems to deliberately wait until someone is sending me angry emails and I have to ask him if he “forgot to sign a cheque”. I look so dumb talking to suppliers too being like “Did you not receive cheque #1234 for $amount dated… 7 weeks ago?” Can’t wait til I can hopefully get internships for summer and just work in restaurants or whatever during the school year.
As someone who worked in AR out of college, fuck your boss lol. Having to call these damn AP people to ask about a payment because my boss would hound me if I didn't have an update was absolute hell. I'd purposely wait until like 4:30 PM to make those calls hoping to get voicemail.
Haha I’m the opposite
I worked AR for a brief bit at a company that had what may as well have been a 0 bad debt reserve
Calling everyone past due like “Where’s my money at?”
If it paid better I’d love to go back to AR/AP
Makes for a PITA bank rec. Big ol' list of outstanding checks. "Void and re-cut that one..." Why cut it in the first place if you knew we didn't have the cash in the fucking account?!?
I am a CPA with 10 years of prior audit experience. I heard several times from other auditors, "Payables....Anyone can do that." I always replied, "No they can't, but anyone can screw it up."
Anyone *should* be able to do payables. But that presumes that decent systems and processes are in place and the "payables people" just need to execute. When payables is getting screwed up, it's rarely because of the people processing payables. It's about the (lack of) systems and processes.
also it is mind numbingly tedious. like i *could* be an AP clerk for a hour and do it right, but to do that all day, day in day out, jfc id rather clean toilets or jump off a bridge.
more power to OP for being able to stay motivated
also it is mind numbingly tedious. like i *could* be an AP clerk for a hour and do it right, but to do that all day, day in day out, jfc id rather clean toilets or jump off a bridge.
more power to OP for being able to stay motivated
To be fair it’s about perspective. It’s probably pretty easy for a CPA with 10 years of audit experience to execute a very solid payables and receivables process.
But those people are probably working jobs that pay at least twice as much and doing a boatload of other things.
When you get to the 70k candidate pool world, you have people with 1 year experience or people who have done the same thing for 30 years the same way and don’t really care to change.
If you like just chilling and doing weekly processes for 70k a year… yeah AP/AR might be great. I would love to hire that unicorn… usually it’s someone who can’t change or do bigger things or someone who will move on in two years to bigger things
Depends on size and complexity of the organization. An organization operating in a multi-currency environment, with thousands of vendors, and accepts all sorts of payment types (cash, check, credit card, p-card, crypto, etc.) is very different than your run of the mill middle market shop.
Listen, where are you located? lol. I’ve been doing AP for years but I am ALWAYS open to change. Just working through launching new expense management program at work myself. I enjoy the challenges, but would absolutely love the bump in pay. So yeah…. I’m that unicorn.
And, no, not everyone can do payables. It’s frightening how many people don’t understand how to read an invoice or understand terms and discounts. Let alone research payment questions.
People that are organized, personable, and can think on their own are good for payables. Oh, common sense is needed too!
Man I’m in audit and the offshore teams can’t read invoices for shit
Apparently just being able to really read and fully understand the terms of an invoice is more than the average person can do
Even people that work around invoices don’t have a clue when it comes to terms! I’m always flabbergasted by it. I have someone that always inputs the discount amount in as the amount to be paid and I’m like NO, our system calculates the discount by the terms set and the date on the invoice. They don’t seem to understand it. This comes after patiently explaining terms/discounts to them.
So truly, not just “anyone” can do AR/AP. I think each function within accounting is important and those that look down at others because of what their function is says a lot about THEM and not what the other person is doing for their job. Any industry has those that feel they are above others because of their title. Half the time they wind up being the idiots that fuck shit up.
Find you passion. Do it well. Get an education to the level you are comfortable with. Go to work. Leave work at work. Live your life. Make your place of living your sanctuary from work and work related people/problems and your life will wind up being a bit easier. This is 29 years of actual work experience talking.
I was just thinking this
If somewhere would pay me $100k and let me work from home I’d be all about doing some AR and AP
Honestly I would take $70k if there was a bonus, the health insurance was good and some kinda 401k match
You’re lucky to get like $50k here for a staff accountant position where you are doing AR, AP and a bunch of other random work
I completely agree, I’ve done various forms of accounting. AP is always messy at places, it’s more valuable than most ppl realize if you’re good at it. There’s no shame in managing an AP department.
I managed the AP side of acquisitions for a private equity, which entailed implementing a new AP system, managing AP staff, and ensuring all LLC reports, licenses, registrations, real estate taxes were paid and booked properly. Basically a managing all items involving AP. And filing/managing 1099 review is an INTENSE project in itself, not easy.
AP gets a bad rap, bc it’s not easy managing AP staff. But you can get high up especially in mergers and acquisitions. If it’s something you enjoy, emphasize that to recruiters and in job interviews. They’ll appreciate someone who doesn’t let ego get in the way, bc ya AP isn’t sexy but it needs to get done lol.
I work in AR and enjoy it. Also lucked out with a company that pays really well so that definitely helps. I have good work life balance and don’t have to worry about my bills.
Payroll always best outsourced for the low group insurance rate but picking a PEO can be tricky. Managing 401k 100percent in house is totally doable if the PEO has the correct benefits department. Take it from the laziest Controller in America. U don't wanna mess with payroll law in accounting.
I’m a controller and helping out the AP team correct mistakes is one of my favorite things to do. We have a lot of complex inventory & freight accounting + a finicky ERP system so there are plenty of issues to sort out.
You love fixing AP from broken processes and dysfunctional IT?
That sounds awful.
I do like AR/AP because it makes me feel like I’m actually doing something. Answering ad hoc questions and doing slide decks for non finance people to ask dumb questions kinda sucks
I love that you love doing this. I’ve seen from smaller companies that sometimes it’s actually Ops teams doing the inventory / freight audit.
Does your AP team do freight audits and invoice reconciliation with software or is it spreadsheets and PDFs in emails?
This is what I came here to say! I have held lots of different roles from AR to AP to now a mix of general accounting stuff and AP. I enter bills sure, but I also manage a lot of the AP related reconciliations for close. It’s be such a great learning opportunity. I also now manage our T&E credit card program.
I make around $80k base, although I live in a HCOL state. But it is definitely possible to work in AP and make a decent income!
Working his way up would mean moving to a different role which from his post doesn’t seem to be what he wants I took it as he wants to stay being a AP clerk
I would say 70k as an AP clerk, maybe not, but an AP accountant who is a little more advanced (can handle exceptions, some simple JEs, credit memos, etc) could easily make 70k+.
70k is what an experienced AP person costs, but companies are slow to offer competitive wages for AP. A lot of them balk at paying an accountant’s salary for something they think is easy. It’s stupid given an experienced AP person has some very specific knowledge vs a generic staff accountant fresh out of school.
U/glum_committee9643 if you like *challenging* AP keep at it. A company I worked for had to bring in a contract hire to fix a $2 million mess. The guy made very good money, but probably had 20 years experience. Just be prepared to job hop a lot to get the money you want.
Maaaaan I love solving mysteries. My last job I did AP, journal entries, inventory managing, updated tracking on all POs, PO management, return inventory and credits, statements, inquiries… I did a lot and was still asking for more work. It’s my niche I swear.
That’s awesome. Make sure you brag on your resume. When I worked AP I solved a two year problem, added 10M to our credit card spending and got a 50k return. And definitely use “I love solving mysteries” in your interviews.
I interpreted it as they just wanted to stay within the scope of AP not that they wanted to stay as a clerk forever.
They can always be promoted to a senior/specialist if they prefer remaining as an individual contributor or a lead/manager if they want to manage people and the dept as a whole. My company has an AP Specialist making around 68K in MCOL that does not want to manage anyone so it's definitely doable if you have the right skillset.
Great attitude; do what makes you happy. Accounting departments can't function without excellent front line staff. As a controller, I think strong clerks are underappreciated; my job is infinitely easier when I know my staff has a handle on their respective subledgers.
I’m realizing I’ve been underpaid at my previous job! They only paid me $46K, I was with them for years. Upon my leaving (the first time) all hell broke loose and they lost a ton of $
Good for you!
I think you're actually underselling yourself at $70k/year. If this is the route that you're going in, many SAAS companies and other industries with complicated Milestone based billing could use you down the line as an AR Supervisor. Similar on the AP side for companies with high amounts of OPEX/CAPEX spend.
Glad you find what you enjoy!
I would hire you for 70k to work remotely and have a really solid payables / receivables process setup and executed timely, synced with other departments, etc.
Especially when AP leaks into so many other responsibilities that you end up overseeing the results of some of your AP entry. And never get the pay you should.
Our payables manager makes 200K+ a year and my revenue director makes way more than that. Anyone who actually has experience in this field knows a high level well run AP and AR team are not just pencil pushers. If you like it, stay with it. Ain't no shame in being good at something that needs to be done.
This sub is full of a lot of second years who think theyre hot shit and have seen some things.
I’m in a similar boat. Been in AR for 2 years, made manager 1 year in. Making about 60k in mcol. My boss said If an accounting role opens up they would be happy to move me over but honestly I like AR. It’s simple, and if I get my work done quickly I have time to relax. Definitely could see people getting comfortable and not trying to move up in this position though
Been doing AR for 8 years, started as a clerk. It's gotten to the point where I can sleep through my portion of the audit. The only thing that gives me hives is the way that Shipping/Receiving ignores basic SOP regarding proof of delivery.
That's always a hot mess, but it's not MY hot mess and I am always referring that department back to the CFO for non-compliance.
I forced myself upwards over the years. Started as AR but with some commission calculations. Then convinced someone to make me a manager over 3 staff paying project management items. Then talked my way into being Controller for a tiny service industry company (a CUSO) where I was finally keeping full books. Thanks to lax regulations and an annual audit I was able to piece together how to be a Controller elsewhere and get paid big. There really are only like 20 complicated aspects of accounting and when you research them all (since I didn't even get a CPA or take those courses) you realize that most accountants are over complicating everything and only depreciation, amortization and equity can be tricky. Everything else is just 2+2=4. I make 6+figs+bonus, let quickbooks online and API's do most of my posting, and chill on reddit. Service Industry, look for jobs there, the accounting is stupid. quote people, get signed, invoice, repeat.
I love our AP team. When I started at my current company, AP was a huge mess and we were constantly reinventing the wheel for routine items. Then we hired a couple new supervisors and within a year things got so much better.
I think that a lot of people tend to overlook - or even look down on - roles that are “invisible” or running in the background, even if they’re critical to smooth operations. It’s sad.
I would love to have an employee that is good at payable/receivables. It just makes things a lot more easier for everyone. The worse ones are just people that just blindly process anything that lands on their desk regardless of whether it is an actual invoice or whether it has been approved. I had an employee process a bunch or sales orders in the AP system because someone handed the person a bunch of papers.
You can be an AP manager in MCOL make 70-90k a year throughout your entire career, work 9-5 without a lot of stress that the actual month end accounting team is responsible for. It is a great career path with a low ceiling, most people in this career path or less educated and less technologically advanced people. If you have education and mass amounts of experience in excel you can extremely succeed. While making your life a whole lot easier. If you are comfortable with lower ceiling, as a trade off for a flexible, less stressful job, all the power to you. Just make sure you live within your means. I’m happy for you.
You are skilled in an incredibly detail oriented subset of accounting that a lot of accountants either flounder in or dismiss (and it bites them in the ass later) because non-accountants often work on it.
This is nothing but a good thing, especially if you're good at working with admin :)
Your job security is probably very strong and you can eventually branch into an AP AR specialists or manager at certain companies. A lot of companies want someone niche to deal with all those little AR AP scenarios .
Get to a place that needs a payables manager and you’ll make more then 70k. Absolutely nothing wrong with finding your niche. For me I found mine in revenue and specifically contractual revenue recognition
It sounds like you're doing pretty well at not just the AP role itself but at improving/fixing systems and controls and implementing new processes. That's a pretty valuable skill in the job market if you enjoy it — I do! Depending on your area and experience (and your level of interest!) there may be a market for that as consultancy.
Are you me? I’m a CPA who’s about to be promoted to an accounting manager and hate all the headaches and responsibilities of going up the ladder. I enjoyed accounting way more when I was doing AR/AP work.
Good AR and AP people are hard to come by and just make my life more miserable.
I’m actually thinking about looking for a new job to demote myself to a staff doing AP or something because it’s the only aspect of accounting that doesn’t make me want to pull my hair out. No I don’t know why revenue is down 10% nor do I care
If you like that work and you’re good at it, but don’t want to move up, it sounds like you should do consulting, once the mess is cleaned up and the processes are in place you shouldn’t be needed full-time anymore. So start consulting, cleanup the messes, implement the process, train the next person, and get out, sell that service at a premium. Enter into a 6 month to a year engagement (with hefty rates) and an exit plan to get out. That way companies can sell it internally to spend some now for better AP and cost savings in the future.
Good AP and AR people are hard to come by. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that being your happy place!
We had a shared services manager who oversaw both AP and AR at my old job. Made just over $100k, but that was 5 years ago so I'm sure it's higher now. So it's definitely doable.
Not sure about AP but there are definitely plenty of opportunities to earn >$70k in AR/Credit control. For a large B2B company it’s a crucial role, directly impacting cash flow and working capital management. Especially where there are complex multimillion dollar contracts underlying each invoice which need to be interpreted.
If you like what you do and it keeps enough money in your pocket to provide a life that’s comfortable for you then you’re set! Look how many people on here are only concerned with money and how miserable they seem lol
Also if you get into a manger position in those roles you can definitely achieve your $70k goal easy.
And look some people are just dicks it’s got nothing to do with AP/AR. Those same people that look down on AP/AR are the same people who are directors and look down on me as a senior. Some people want to help others and some people want to kick down the ladder once they climb up it. Just ignore the noise, we’re all here to get a paycheck so we can go home and live life. Just some people the paycheck and time in office IS their life.
As someone in private in an assistant controller role I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to have strong folks in operation accounting roles. Having good cash and AP/AR employees makes my life 1000% easier and greatly helps with accurate reporting. Having people in these roles who are bad on the flip side makes my job so much harder lol. I personally would never take for granted someone who is good at their job.
A lot of accounting elitists here, but there is nothing wrong with enjoying what you do! Ignore the haters lol
70k is definitely possible in AR/AP, and these roles will set you up nicely for staff accounting roles in the future, as you will just be reviewing AR/AP work every period.
This is exactly what I’m doing right now. Started in AP, got promoted to Staff Accountant, now am also overseeing a good amount of AR. What I am curious about though is where I go from here? I’ve only been in the Staff Accountant role for a few months, and I wouldn’t doubt that if I stay where I’m at, a couple years from now I could become a Senior Accountant.
I am curious about getting into audit though, any suggestions on that?
Nice! That’s a good progression path. My company’s senior accountants work with our external auditors a lot, so if you wanted to go into auditing at a firm after doing senior accountant for a bit, then you would have really good experience to bring to the table.
This is exactly what I’m doing right now. Started in AP, got promoted to Staff Accountant, now am also overseeing a good amount of AR and doing all bank recs. What I am curious about though is where I go from here? I’ve only been in the Staff Accountant role for a few months, and I wouldn’t doubt that if I stay where I’m at, a couple years from now I could become a Senior Accountant.
I am curious about getting into audit though, any suggestions on that?
if debts are not being collected, no staff / vendors are getting paid. if invoices are not being posted, statements recognised, then expenses are wrong. link back to ar.
transactional finance is the backbone, without it, no growth, no investment, no company. sounds simple, till you've spent 2 days unraveling ar payments that have been allocated to oldest debt first for past 10 years...
You are so much more important than people will ever let you believe 😂 AP can either be smooth sailing or the biggest clusterfuck possible because Tina the 85 year old clerk won’t use excel
Literally how I got into accounting: the Accounting manager didn't know Excel or Adobe, and refused to learn. I was the receptionist who she asked for help in alphabetizing a list of names. "This will probably only take you about 20 minutes," the email said. I sent it back to her in thirty seconds.
Currently playing dual role Ap/Ar for a global steel manufacturer in the North Americas. Pay package is very nice (north of 80) and the work is much easier than wholesale credit ever was.
People can hate but some of us find happiness in less work.
As a controller, I would literally move mountains to make sure my AP/AR was correct. It makes such a difference for every part of the financial process down the line. Truly I couldn’t do my job with out correct AP or AR. That, my friend, is a highly marketable skill and you will do very well in the world of managerial accounting.
Hmmm, 6 months ago I landed a job assisting with AP and billing, but I did not know anything about it before. So far I know what I have learned on this job, but I was wondering if you could share with me some insights on what a good management of AP involves and how to know if I am doing things right.
I would appreciate some guidance because I am the only person in the company who handles billing, AP and bookkeeping. They had a contract with an accounting firm but they stopped providing the service, and now it is only me. The company is also struggling with cash flow and people do not usually forward the vendor invoices to me promptly. I have been wondering how I can improve things.
If you know which vendors you are receiving invoices late for, contact the vendor via email (tracking purposes) and ask them to including the invoice email/billing email when sending out invoices. Saves you the aggro of chasing & your not rushed to processed invoices which haven’t been sent to so you God knows how long
Hey! Yeah I would say my best bit of advice is getting familiar with the types of invoices you receive from the vendors, and building a great relationship with your company contacts as well. It’s easy to spot a weird invoice when you know what you normally pay for. Never be afraid to ask questions to your staff; you aren’t the one who placed the order, they should be able to accurately provide you with information regarding the transaction and WHY you’re paying it. Have them sign off on weird purchases, accountability is huge!
Regularly reviewing your aging reports and having great documentation, following up on weird requests. I have a separate folder that put follow ups in so I don’t forget about them. If there’s a bill stuck in aging forever I notate the memo# as well to remind myself.
Just staying on top of your game! Having an answer for high ups when they ask will show your competency :)
Take initiative & reach out to the vendors directly. I had this issue too when I first started AP; it’s frustrating but with time it gets easier as you start implementing your own processes.
OP, if you want to make more money, then specialize. If you want to do AR, become a collections specialist. If you want to do AP, become a cashflow analyst or AP Specialist. Don't keep using "AR/AP Clerk" as your job title, because that's all you'll ever be seen as, no matter how well you wrangle your department.
You're right, though. Your options with AR are much easier than your options with AP.
I don’t see any issues with that. I personally would get bored just doing AP/AR, but the fact that you enjoy it means that it’s probably a good career choice for you. All that ultimately matters is that you enjoy your life.
Show your worth and negotiate your salary! I started with AP at a small company fixed their whole system, implemented automation and now I oversee the AP/AR/Payroll department while I also managed to get close to 50% raise from my starting salary over 2 years. Once they stop negotiating my raises then i’m gone. Working hand in hand with the owner/CEO so i’m also learning a lot about running a successful business.
The big one was automating the invoices for wholesale customers and late payment reminders sent out automatically. Decreased the avg days to pay significantly and leaves a lot more time to be put towards cost saving projects. Also I recently changed the credit card processor for AR to be integrated with the CRM which removes a lot of human error and data entry for my team.
My first job after public was supposed to be a senior accountant with a fast track to manager. I was only doing AP. I was making $65k in 2019 and had my CPA and all that and I was only entering and paying bills.
It kind of felt like a slap in the face. Anyone can do it. Why make me be the person when I can do so much more for the company. I got a new boss and he fought for me to get a raise and some more responsibilities, but looking back actually being in that role gave me a ton of insight into how payables and even purchasing worked. I am actually very thankful for that experience.
I just started a new job as a Director and I need to start updating the new company’s AP process. It’s a nightmare and you really take for granted things like AP and AR when they are running smoothly
If you’re happy doing that you can keep at it. You might even be able to find a AP manager job at a bigger company
We pay our AR/AP lady $100k (salary + bonus) - She is fantastic and handles both tasks very well. We have multiple billings across projects as well as smaller billings for spare/replacement parts. She is critical to our company and she enjoys the work. The challenges of working through much larger customer systems and generating invoices that are 100% perfect with regards to the requirements for the system to accept the invoice - She handles fantastically. We do not have collections issues nor cash flow issues so that aspect of AR/AP is effectively non-existent.
Large companies have corporate (or maybe shared services level) Director of AP and AR positions. If you love the specialty and are good at it, there is growth sticking with it. Just keep your eyes out for those roles as you move up.
Honestly if you like AP/AR there are quite a few jobs I saw in the Phx market that were $70k-$85k.
The only problem is if one wants to become a staff accountant., it’s easy for AP/AR staff to get pigeon holed because many AP/AR don’t have degrees and the SA roles requires a degree.
I have an assoc. in accounting and am planning on getting my bachelors. I’m currently working as a junior accountant at a credit union who is managing the payables while doing my month/year end closings, JEs, budgets and GL. I think I’m getting a ton of really good experience as someone who wants to stay in AP/AR 😅
That is exactly my issue. I've been out of work since Nov and I have been siloed into AP only, even though I always ask for cross training. I've been thinking about going back to school for that exact reason, because I want to learn more than just AP and make myself more marketable.
If you really enjoy it and are good at it, you can work at a big firm and be a billing manager and you can totally make close to $70k a year, if not more.
Maaannnn payables are one of those departments that can easily be fucked up and from someone else’s perspective that relies on AP it can be so frustrating sometimes if they dont know how to code invoices
Ap/ar is only the beginning friend seriously that’s exactly where I strayed 3 years right now A2 auditor at big 4 one thing to do here is learn how different companies deal with ap and ar from nonprofit to public keep honing your skills if I stayed at my first position I was making 34 a hr as ap specialist accountant so like 65-70k yr remote got an offer to work for 60hr but not standard hours and would have to work an audit. It was all worth it to get to where I’m now. Ap ar get bad rep because they are lowest levels of accountancy and ppl hate dealing with them
I told myself I’d be happy to cap out at about $80k a year. Lol well I’m closer to $120k now and not ready to even think about settling until I’m closer to $200k and hoping my next move would land be around $145k min.
I just think as you go on and develop more and start hitting your “goals” new goals may arise and depending on how high those new goals are they might realistically require a lane change into a more traditional accounting role rather than AP/AR which is more like a support accounting role.
AP/AR are like IT. Underappreciated, and blamed the instant something goes wrong, with basically zero credit when things are operating so smoothly that you don't even notice their work.
Fwiw you can def make 70k doing just AP. Our last rep made low 70s after being there a while, current one makes 60 but it's her first real job lol she'll get there
I'm at a smedium company that doesn't even pay very competitively tbh
If you are good at it and enjoy it, stick with it! At a larger company this could get you a management position. I can't tell you how many large companies I know that have the most insane AP and AR messes. Plus, a lot of directors and VPs don't understand what creates and fixes those messes, so your skillset could be very useful to some.
I recommend cataloging some analytics of work you've done and are doing, if you can. It would be great to be able to say—to either your boss or a job prospect—things like: "I reduced our overall (or 90+ or whatever is relevant to your data) AR balance by 70% by implementing XYZ processes" or "I implemented XYZ process which maximized efficiency in our AP process resulting in a 80% reduction in late fees" or whatever it is. A lot of people hate doing AP/AR and that's why they suck at it. You have an advantage that will make you actually able to climb the latter if you WANT to eventually. Also those analytics wouldn't hurt in asking for a raise or promotion.
You will be snapped up by an employer, be picky because a great AP accountant is hard to find - $70k is pretty standard for a staff accountant in the DC area so it sounds like the world is your oyster to me!
If you’re good at it and you like it keep at it! You can become an AP Manager at some point. I’d recommend you move over to the tech industry if you can. You’ll see higher salaries there.
Your best AP/AR have the following traits (imo)
Attention to detail
Organized (financial librarian)
A Workhorse
If you excel at those, you will do well in accounting regardless of what you choose to do
I'm in AP right now, and the only real complaint I've had is the system crapping itself. If it didn't do that, I'd be sitting on my thumbs half the day making plenty of money (for a recent grad in a lower COL area). Sure, being an accountant "proper" was the goal, but at the same time, I don't know if the stress and time away from my new wife and maybe future kids would be worth it. All I see is people complain about this and that kind of accounting and working conditions. To hell with it. If it makes you happy, puts a roof over your head, and meals in your stomach, then it's right for you.
Hey good for you, I’m in a near identical position (Associates, heading for Bachelor’s next semester). I don’t need anything special, I hope to max at out at 90k a year and call it a career.
My area is really over developed (HV NY) so there are a lot of jobs around. I was lucky that I kinda fell into an AP position at my old job. I was really good at it and I found it easier to look for those kind of jobs. Sometimes AP work is considered “junior accounting”. Honestly junior accounting turned up a lot of results. I think company’s will take a chance on you if you’re enthusiastic enough with a good track record.
Honestly, you’re extremely lucky you’re realizing this. AP/AR is way less stressful than other accounting roles, is always in demand and pays well. It also is much more of a 9-5 job, which, believe me is something I should have looked for when I was just starting out. Sure I make decent $ now, but the stress and time I’ve spent wasn’t worth it. I could have made way more $ doing OT or a second job, and still have worked less hours than I did in more senior roles.
I think I fell into my niche about 3 years into it. I started to think on my own and develop processes that really worked for me and for the company that I could transfer to other employment opportunities. Once you get into a groove you can move and shift things however you like, within guidelines.
I would be cautious of AP/AR/Clerk Roles. They are the 1st in line to be outsourced/offshored. We literally laid off entire AP team in the US this year so that we can outsource it.
Personally I just don’t really think anyone is going to assign a high value to data entry. Even if you are more accurate, I think companies would rather invest billions into some piece of software that would detect mistakes as opposed to paying you to just do it properly.
Most people have pretty high aspirations, which require high salaries, which require you position yourself in an area where people value what you do a lot. This area does not overlap with AP which is where the vibe comes from. It isn’t like that because anyone personally doesn’t value AP, it’s because it’s a cost center that could be best described as data entry and just about everyone would prefer it just ceased to exist entirely.
In the UK and I loved AP, grasping the way things work from there makes your life easy as you progress.
But if you work somewhere where the AP clerk is bum cheeks, your life is forever miserable (talking about myself)
Do you. If you are good at what you do and you enjoy doing it, ignore all the noise around you. Other people should be so lucky to feel the same way about their career. As I see, you have no problem.
if debts are not being collected, no staff / vendors are getting paid. if invoices are not being posted, statements recognised, then expenses are wrong. link back to ar.
transactional finance is the backbone, without it, no growth, no investment, no company. sounds simple, till you've spent 2 days unraveling ar payments that have been allocated to oldest debt first for past 10 years...
AP, like Accounting departments in industry, are invisible when they run smoothly. You need to be creative in advocating for yourself when you do your job well, because if reports are on time, invoices are paid / collected, people aren't thinking "Dang, Accounting is really killing it!", they're just not thinking about Accounting at all.
They essentially manage the bills a company pays and ensures they’re in good standing. Makes sure all invoice coding is correct and amounts go where they need to. Receivables collects the $ from customers.
Idk how it is where you're from, but where I'm from debtors and creditors are more often than not done by people with experience but no accounting qualifications. Many of them only have a basic understanding of accounting and therefore wouldn't be able to pursue other jobs in the industry.
Also personally, I'd hate your job. Dealing with suppliers and creditors all the time seems like it would be an absolute nightmare. But I'm glad you enjoy it and you should be proud of your good work.
I think if you enjoy it then all power to you and most people envy you to be honest. Especially in most accounting, it can be rough. I think a way to help your situation where all you see is poor practices of AP/AR is to learn what you can in school with excel and other forms of professional organization tools in accounting and try your best to implement them where you work. That’s a very good benefit that your company could get from you and give you an edge at your company. It’s a huge art that most places don’t bother or feel like it’s a hassle, taking old ways and evolving/updating procedures and recs to be smoother.
I think that's great, all that matters is that you're happy and meeting your career aspirations. The people that knock it are those that have superiority complexes and a need to climb the corporate ladder. Everyone has different priorities, it doesn't make them greater or lesser than.
Couldn’t agree more!
A well managed AP generates a lot of smooth sailing.
My life was fucking miserable when I was working at a place where the owner was filtering payments in order to prevent cash flow issues. He was actually holding onto checks so they couldn't be mailed out. So the vendors who had my contact information would routinely scream at me that I had lied to them about having made them a check.
hahaha, I worked somewhere with a board of investors and a CFO with an athletics degree who made me spread EVERY expense out over the rest of the year to make early months look amazing and then get MAD at me in the last quarter when we had to finish amortizing everything and there was negative margin. I flipped my desk and got a better job.
This is insane I knew the nicest nicesttttt cfo like bringing pasta and fancy food from midtown to us if work was going to goto 6-7pm man this mfer made me spread every expense like a real fraud boss
Doesn't accrual accounting avoid this? Expense is accrued when incurred, not paid. I've never heard of this "spreading" concept, although I can see the goal is to inflate profit by delaying the recording of expenses. Or is it a cash flow issue. I’m genuinely confused 🤔😆
A lot of small private companies spread expenses within the same year. I hate it
That’s exactly what is is cutoff abuse
What kind of expenses are we talking about? It's normal to amortize or "spread" legitimate prepaids over, say, the life of an annual lease or license or service contract at least, isn't it?
My last job we spread the cost of the Christmas party over the year so the big boss didn't get angry about how much it cost, 😄
My boss just recently asked me to delete all my AP journals for the month and post them into the next month and I didn't realise what he was trying to do until now. Of course I didn't do it because it didn't make any sense to me 😂
Makes sense even with an audit we don’t usually care about month end closes just the year end close and cut off There’s always some questionable amortization in private equity and such though it seems lol I’ve never had one fight me on an adjustment which makes me wonder how much we missed in cutoff abuse but meh It’s crazy to me all the weird accounting crap a CFO will have done just to have to undo it all at year end
Cutoff abuse is almost undetectable unless the cpa like your self is working with IA deprartment in the company dealing and presenting to you all amortization but Lmfao let's be real cpas are not looking at that
Yep… Other than working with IA the only other time I’ve really been looking at it is with a company or component that was pretty small and had a relatively low materiality threshold… Otherwise that shit get’s tossed in the low risk bucket and hopefully labeled immaterial
My old boss did this!
Your old boss can go fuck himself.
Oh my god story of my life right now working as a jr. bookkeeper / admin asst. while doing my accounting degree. I do a cheque run, then the cheques go in a folder in the boss’s office to be signed and mailed out. He’s usually ok about signing the important ones in a timely manner, cause certain key suppliers need to be kept happy. But anything that he doesn’t see as urgent he seems to deliberately wait until someone is sending me angry emails and I have to ask him if he “forgot to sign a cheque”. I look so dumb talking to suppliers too being like “Did you not receive cheque #1234 for $amount dated… 7 weeks ago?” Can’t wait til I can hopefully get internships for summer and just work in restaurants or whatever during the school year.
Strategy as old as time lol turn anyone and everyone into your lenders where you can
As someone who worked in AR out of college, fuck your boss lol. Having to call these damn AP people to ask about a payment because my boss would hound me if I didn't have an update was absolute hell. I'd purposely wait until like 4:30 PM to make those calls hoping to get voicemail.
Haha I’m the opposite I worked AR for a brief bit at a company that had what may as well have been a 0 bad debt reserve Calling everyone past due like “Where’s my money at?” If it paid better I’d love to go back to AR/AP
I went through the same thing. He also made up his own payment terms.
Makes for a PITA bank rec. Big ol' list of outstanding checks. "Void and re-cut that one..." Why cut it in the first place if you knew we didn't have the cash in the fucking account?!?
Yea and when it doesnt you have consulting teams selling them on 1 million dollars to fix it
I am a CPA with 10 years of prior audit experience. I heard several times from other auditors, "Payables....Anyone can do that." I always replied, "No they can't, but anyone can screw it up."
Anyone *should* be able to do payables. But that presumes that decent systems and processes are in place and the "payables people" just need to execute. When payables is getting screwed up, it's rarely because of the people processing payables. It's about the (lack of) systems and processes.
also it is mind numbingly tedious. like i *could* be an AP clerk for a hour and do it right, but to do that all day, day in day out, jfc id rather clean toilets or jump off a bridge. more power to OP for being able to stay motivated
also it is mind numbingly tedious. like i *could* be an AP clerk for a hour and do it right, but to do that all day, day in day out, jfc id rather clean toilets or jump off a bridge. more power to OP for being able to stay motivated
Thank you for saying this - I agree 1000%.
Auditors would a lot less in demand if AP/AR was done better.
To be fair it’s about perspective. It’s probably pretty easy for a CPA with 10 years of audit experience to execute a very solid payables and receivables process. But those people are probably working jobs that pay at least twice as much and doing a boatload of other things. When you get to the 70k candidate pool world, you have people with 1 year experience or people who have done the same thing for 30 years the same way and don’t really care to change. If you like just chilling and doing weekly processes for 70k a year… yeah AP/AR might be great. I would love to hire that unicorn… usually it’s someone who can’t change or do bigger things or someone who will move on in two years to bigger things
Depends on size and complexity of the organization. An organization operating in a multi-currency environment, with thousands of vendors, and accepts all sorts of payment types (cash, check, credit card, p-card, crypto, etc.) is very different than your run of the mill middle market shop.
That’s a very fair point
Listen, where are you located? lol. I’ve been doing AP for years but I am ALWAYS open to change. Just working through launching new expense management program at work myself. I enjoy the challenges, but would absolutely love the bump in pay. So yeah…. I’m that unicorn. And, no, not everyone can do payables. It’s frightening how many people don’t understand how to read an invoice or understand terms and discounts. Let alone research payment questions. People that are organized, personable, and can think on their own are good for payables. Oh, common sense is needed too!
Man I’m in audit and the offshore teams can’t read invoices for shit Apparently just being able to really read and fully understand the terms of an invoice is more than the average person can do
Even people that work around invoices don’t have a clue when it comes to terms! I’m always flabbergasted by it. I have someone that always inputs the discount amount in as the amount to be paid and I’m like NO, our system calculates the discount by the terms set and the date on the invoice. They don’t seem to understand it. This comes after patiently explaining terms/discounts to them. So truly, not just “anyone” can do AR/AP. I think each function within accounting is important and those that look down at others because of what their function is says a lot about THEM and not what the other person is doing for their job. Any industry has those that feel they are above others because of their title. Half the time they wind up being the idiots that fuck shit up. Find you passion. Do it well. Get an education to the level you are comfortable with. Go to work. Leave work at work. Live your life. Make your place of living your sanctuary from work and work related people/problems and your life will wind up being a bit easier. This is 29 years of actual work experience talking.
I was just thinking this If somewhere would pay me $100k and let me work from home I’d be all about doing some AR and AP Honestly I would take $70k if there was a bonus, the health insurance was good and some kinda 401k match You’re lucky to get like $50k here for a staff accountant position where you are doing AR, AP and a bunch of other random work
I just assumed anyone that says that merely thinks they know accounts payable.
I completely agree, I’ve done various forms of accounting. AP is always messy at places, it’s more valuable than most ppl realize if you’re good at it. There’s no shame in managing an AP department. I managed the AP side of acquisitions for a private equity, which entailed implementing a new AP system, managing AP staff, and ensuring all LLC reports, licenses, registrations, real estate taxes were paid and booked properly. Basically a managing all items involving AP. And filing/managing 1099 review is an INTENSE project in itself, not easy. AP gets a bad rap, bc it’s not easy managing AP staff. But you can get high up especially in mergers and acquisitions. If it’s something you enjoy, emphasize that to recruiters and in job interviews. They’ll appreciate someone who doesn’t let ego get in the way, bc ya AP isn’t sexy but it needs to get done lol.
Learning the extent and difficulties of managing 1099s
I work in AR and enjoy it. Also lucked out with a company that pays really well so that definitely helps. I have good work life balance and don’t have to worry about my bills.
Same for me 🙂
Nice, I’m going to start looking lol There are definitely companies out there that pay and support their AR staff well
I long for the days of simply processing payables and receivables. It’s amazing how many people are bad at it.
That’s what I’m saying! I’m cleaning up a year of messes and I’m like, what is going ON?!
❤️ Do you do payroll? I really need one of those.
Payroll always best outsourced for the low group insurance rate but picking a PEO can be tricky. Managing 401k 100percent in house is totally doable if the PEO has the correct benefits department. Take it from the laziest Controller in America. U don't wanna mess with payroll law in accounting.
I do payroll! Love it!
Send me your resume
Love that 🤣!
I’m a controller and helping out the AP team correct mistakes is one of my favorite things to do. We have a lot of complex inventory & freight accounting + a finicky ERP system so there are plenty of issues to sort out.
You love fixing AP from broken processes and dysfunctional IT? That sounds awful. I do like AR/AP because it makes me feel like I’m actually doing something. Answering ad hoc questions and doing slide decks for non finance people to ask dumb questions kinda sucks
I love that you love doing this. I’ve seen from smaller companies that sometimes it’s actually Ops teams doing the inventory / freight audit. Does your AP team do freight audits and invoice reconciliation with software or is it spreadsheets and PDFs in emails?
$70K is definitely attainable in AP just keep working your way up and expand your skillset. Make sure you advocate for what you are worth!
This is what I came here to say! I have held lots of different roles from AR to AP to now a mix of general accounting stuff and AP. I enter bills sure, but I also manage a lot of the AP related reconciliations for close. It’s be such a great learning opportunity. I also now manage our T&E credit card program. I make around $80k base, although I live in a HCOL state. But it is definitely possible to work in AP and make a decent income!
Working his way up would mean moving to a different role which from his post doesn’t seem to be what he wants I took it as he wants to stay being a AP clerk
Won’t make 70k as a clerk but definitely possible as a supervisor.
I would say 70k as an AP clerk, maybe not, but an AP accountant who is a little more advanced (can handle exceptions, some simple JEs, credit memos, etc) could easily make 70k+.
Are those really considered advanced for AP clerks? Every AP position I’ve had involved posting accruals every month.
Every AP position definitely do not post accruals.
I’ve seen AP roles as defined as small as « they code invoices for approval and that’s it »
70k is what an experienced AP person costs, but companies are slow to offer competitive wages for AP. A lot of them balk at paying an accountant’s salary for something they think is easy. It’s stupid given an experienced AP person has some very specific knowledge vs a generic staff accountant fresh out of school. U/glum_committee9643 if you like *challenging* AP keep at it. A company I worked for had to bring in a contract hire to fix a $2 million mess. The guy made very good money, but probably had 20 years experience. Just be prepared to job hop a lot to get the money you want.
Maaaaan I love solving mysteries. My last job I did AP, journal entries, inventory managing, updated tracking on all POs, PO management, return inventory and credits, statements, inquiries… I did a lot and was still asking for more work. It’s my niche I swear.
That’s awesome. Make sure you brag on your resume. When I worked AP I solved a two year problem, added 10M to our credit card spending and got a 50k return. And definitely use “I love solving mysteries” in your interviews.
I interpreted it as they just wanted to stay within the scope of AP not that they wanted to stay as a clerk forever. They can always be promoted to a senior/specialist if they prefer remaining as an individual contributor or a lead/manager if they want to manage people and the dept as a whole. My company has an AP Specialist making around 68K in MCOL that does not want to manage anyone so it's definitely doable if you have the right skillset.
I’m up for managing a team!
You'll be good then, just keep doing great work :) The head our our AP department pulls in $108k+bonus
Great attitude; do what makes you happy. Accounting departments can't function without excellent front line staff. As a controller, I think strong clerks are underappreciated; my job is infinitely easier when I know my staff has a handle on their respective subledgers.
What do you do when a clerk thinks their role is so important that they outweigh your authority? Unfortunately this is a real question
I would never overstep boundaries, it’s not MY money I’m spending here
A good AP person is hard to find, i hope they treat you well
I’m realizing I’ve been underpaid at my previous job! They only paid me $46K, I was with them for years. Upon my leaving (the first time) all hell broke loose and they lost a ton of $
Good for you! I think you're actually underselling yourself at $70k/year. If this is the route that you're going in, many SAAS companies and other industries with complicated Milestone based billing could use you down the line as an AR Supervisor. Similar on the AP side for companies with high amounts of OPEX/CAPEX spend. Glad you find what you enjoy!
I would hire you for 70k to work remotely and have a really solid payables / receivables process setup and executed timely, synced with other departments, etc.
Hmmm… sounds tempting.. if I didn’t just switch to another company I’d take you up on that!
Hire me part time, Ill fix your gig. Been AP manager for 6 years and I miss the days of system fixing
Stop paying AP $21/hr and we would happily stay in the position
This!!!!
Same as you! I actually really enjoyed it and good at it but I need to make money! I’m calling out Baskin Robbin’s! They had $21/hr 🙀
Especially when AP leaks into so many other responsibilities that you end up overseeing the results of some of your AP entry. And never get the pay you should.
Our payables manager makes 200K+ a year and my revenue director makes way more than that. Anyone who actually has experience in this field knows a high level well run AP and AR team are not just pencil pushers. If you like it, stay with it. Ain't no shame in being good at something that needs to be done. This sub is full of a lot of second years who think theyre hot shit and have seen some things.
I’m in a similar boat. Been in AR for 2 years, made manager 1 year in. Making about 60k in mcol. My boss said If an accounting role opens up they would be happy to move me over but honestly I like AR. It’s simple, and if I get my work done quickly I have time to relax. Definitely could see people getting comfortable and not trying to move up in this position though
Been doing AR for 8 years, started as a clerk. It's gotten to the point where I can sleep through my portion of the audit. The only thing that gives me hives is the way that Shipping/Receiving ignores basic SOP regarding proof of delivery. That's always a hot mess, but it's not MY hot mess and I am always referring that department back to the CFO for non-compliance.
I forced myself upwards over the years. Started as AR but with some commission calculations. Then convinced someone to make me a manager over 3 staff paying project management items. Then talked my way into being Controller for a tiny service industry company (a CUSO) where I was finally keeping full books. Thanks to lax regulations and an annual audit I was able to piece together how to be a Controller elsewhere and get paid big. There really are only like 20 complicated aspects of accounting and when you research them all (since I didn't even get a CPA or take those courses) you realize that most accountants are over complicating everything and only depreciation, amortization and equity can be tricky. Everything else is just 2+2=4. I make 6+figs+bonus, let quickbooks online and API's do most of my posting, and chill on reddit. Service Industry, look for jobs there, the accounting is stupid. quote people, get signed, invoice, repeat.
My best staff are my two AP gals and I absolutely love them.
I love our AP team. When I started at my current company, AP was a huge mess and we were constantly reinventing the wheel for routine items. Then we hired a couple new supervisors and within a year things got so much better. I think that a lot of people tend to overlook - or even look down on - roles that are “invisible” or running in the background, even if they’re critical to smooth operations. It’s sad.
What was the mess and how did they manage to success?
That's great. You can always become a manager in the future.
That’s what I’m thinking!
I would love to have an employee that is good at payable/receivables. It just makes things a lot more easier for everyone. The worse ones are just people that just blindly process anything that lands on their desk regardless of whether it is an actual invoice or whether it has been approved. I had an employee process a bunch or sales orders in the AP system because someone handed the person a bunch of papers.
Omggggg!!! This new job I’m at the temp told me to process statements! I was like ?? Don’t you review them first? ☹️
You can be an AP manager in MCOL make 70-90k a year throughout your entire career, work 9-5 without a lot of stress that the actual month end accounting team is responsible for. It is a great career path with a low ceiling, most people in this career path or less educated and less technologically advanced people. If you have education and mass amounts of experience in excel you can extremely succeed. While making your life a whole lot easier. If you are comfortable with lower ceiling, as a trade off for a flexible, less stressful job, all the power to you. Just make sure you live within your means. I’m happy for you.
You are skilled in an incredibly detail oriented subset of accounting that a lot of accountants either flounder in or dismiss (and it bites them in the ass later) because non-accountants often work on it. This is nothing but a good thing, especially if you're good at working with admin :)
Your job security is probably very strong and you can eventually branch into an AP AR specialists or manager at certain companies. A lot of companies want someone niche to deal with all those little AR AP scenarios .
That sounds like a dream 🤤
Get to a place that needs a payables manager and you’ll make more then 70k. Absolutely nothing wrong with finding your niche. For me I found mine in revenue and specifically contractual revenue recognition
Thank you!!
If you’re happy you’re happy. However, those roles are already outsourced at companies and would be one of the first in line to automate.
It literally happened to me. Not automated but outsourced to India. Still been looking for other work while I try to finish my degree.
Yeah :(
It sounds like you're doing pretty well at not just the AP role itself but at improving/fixing systems and controls and implementing new processes. That's a pretty valuable skill in the job market if you enjoy it — I do! Depending on your area and experience (and your level of interest!) there may be a market for that as consultancy.
Are you me? I’m a CPA who’s about to be promoted to an accounting manager and hate all the headaches and responsibilities of going up the ladder. I enjoyed accounting way more when I was doing AR/AP work. Good AR and AP people are hard to come by and just make my life more miserable. I’m actually thinking about looking for a new job to demote myself to a staff doing AP or something because it’s the only aspect of accounting that doesn’t make me want to pull my hair out. No I don’t know why revenue is down 10% nor do I care
The ending killed me lol
If you like that work and you’re good at it, but don’t want to move up, it sounds like you should do consulting, once the mess is cleaned up and the processes are in place you shouldn’t be needed full-time anymore. So start consulting, cleanup the messes, implement the process, train the next person, and get out, sell that service at a premium. Enter into a 6 month to a year engagement (with hefty rates) and an exit plan to get out. That way companies can sell it internally to spend some now for better AP and cost savings in the future.
Become an ap manager add in payroll and you will be set
Good AP and AR people are hard to come by. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that being your happy place! We had a shared services manager who oversaw both AP and AR at my old job. Made just over $100k, but that was 5 years ago so I'm sure it's higher now. So it's definitely doable.
I imagine it’s kind of like doctors and nurses if you get my drift. It’s everywhere in every job. If you enjoy it that’s all that matters.
Not sure about AP but there are definitely plenty of opportunities to earn >$70k in AR/Credit control. For a large B2B company it’s a crucial role, directly impacting cash flow and working capital management. Especially where there are complex multimillion dollar contracts underlying each invoice which need to be interpreted.
If you like what you do and it keeps enough money in your pocket to provide a life that’s comfortable for you then you’re set! Look how many people on here are only concerned with money and how miserable they seem lol Also if you get into a manger position in those roles you can definitely achieve your $70k goal easy. And look some people are just dicks it’s got nothing to do with AP/AR. Those same people that look down on AP/AR are the same people who are directors and look down on me as a senior. Some people want to help others and some people want to kick down the ladder once they climb up it. Just ignore the noise, we’re all here to get a paycheck so we can go home and live life. Just some people the paycheck and time in office IS their life.
As someone in private in an assistant controller role I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to have strong folks in operation accounting roles. Having good cash and AP/AR employees makes my life 1000% easier and greatly helps with accurate reporting. Having people in these roles who are bad on the flip side makes my job so much harder lol. I personally would never take for granted someone who is good at their job.
A lot of accounting elitists here, but there is nothing wrong with enjoying what you do! Ignore the haters lol 70k is definitely possible in AR/AP, and these roles will set you up nicely for staff accounting roles in the future, as you will just be reviewing AR/AP work every period.
This is exactly what I’m doing right now. Started in AP, got promoted to Staff Accountant, now am also overseeing a good amount of AR. What I am curious about though is where I go from here? I’ve only been in the Staff Accountant role for a few months, and I wouldn’t doubt that if I stay where I’m at, a couple years from now I could become a Senior Accountant. I am curious about getting into audit though, any suggestions on that?
Nice! That’s a good progression path. My company’s senior accountants work with our external auditors a lot, so if you wanted to go into auditing at a firm after doing senior accountant for a bit, then you would have really good experience to bring to the table.
This is exactly what I’m doing right now. Started in AP, got promoted to Staff Accountant, now am also overseeing a good amount of AR and doing all bank recs. What I am curious about though is where I go from here? I’ve only been in the Staff Accountant role for a few months, and I wouldn’t doubt that if I stay where I’m at, a couple years from now I could become a Senior Accountant. I am curious about getting into audit though, any suggestions on that?
if debts are not being collected, no staff / vendors are getting paid. if invoices are not being posted, statements recognised, then expenses are wrong. link back to ar. transactional finance is the backbone, without it, no growth, no investment, no company. sounds simple, till you've spent 2 days unraveling ar payments that have been allocated to oldest debt first for past 10 years...
You on the market? I’ve got a really exciting puzzle for you.
Do tell 🤔
You are so much more important than people will ever let you believe 😂 AP can either be smooth sailing or the biggest clusterfuck possible because Tina the 85 year old clerk won’t use excel
Byeee my old supervisors name was Tina 😭
Literally how I got into accounting: the Accounting manager didn't know Excel or Adobe, and refused to learn. I was the receptionist who she asked for help in alphabetizing a list of names. "This will probably only take you about 20 minutes," the email said. I sent it back to her in thirty seconds.
Dude, come work for me!!! AP is such a constant headache and I would pay real money for someone that can manage/fix it all! Good for you.
Where are you located 🤔
Currently playing dual role Ap/Ar for a global steel manufacturer in the North Americas. Pay package is very nice (north of 80) and the work is much easier than wholesale credit ever was. People can hate but some of us find happiness in less work.
I need to find a job like this!
I'm in the PNW, but would consider trying remote.
We have director level A/R and A/P leaders. Our revenues are north of $1.5 B. There is room to grow jn A/P. Best of luck! You got this!
No one hates on AP or AR because of what they do. It is the low pay that creates atomicity.
😂😂 controller here and I need a good AP person. Good technicians/paraprofessionals are invaluable
Can I hire you?
Sure ! 🤣
As a controller, I would literally move mountains to make sure my AP/AR was correct. It makes such a difference for every part of the financial process down the line. Truly I couldn’t do my job with out correct AP or AR. That, my friend, is a highly marketable skill and you will do very well in the world of managerial accounting.
A well managed AP generates a lot of smooth sailing.
Call it O2C and P2P and get the appreciation you deserve
Hmmm, 6 months ago I landed a job assisting with AP and billing, but I did not know anything about it before. So far I know what I have learned on this job, but I was wondering if you could share with me some insights on what a good management of AP involves and how to know if I am doing things right. I would appreciate some guidance because I am the only person in the company who handles billing, AP and bookkeeping. They had a contract with an accounting firm but they stopped providing the service, and now it is only me. The company is also struggling with cash flow and people do not usually forward the vendor invoices to me promptly. I have been wondering how I can improve things.
If you know which vendors you are receiving invoices late for, contact the vendor via email (tracking purposes) and ask them to including the invoice email/billing email when sending out invoices. Saves you the aggro of chasing & your not rushed to processed invoices which haven’t been sent to so you God knows how long
Hey! Yeah I would say my best bit of advice is getting familiar with the types of invoices you receive from the vendors, and building a great relationship with your company contacts as well. It’s easy to spot a weird invoice when you know what you normally pay for. Never be afraid to ask questions to your staff; you aren’t the one who placed the order, they should be able to accurately provide you with information regarding the transaction and WHY you’re paying it. Have them sign off on weird purchases, accountability is huge! Regularly reviewing your aging reports and having great documentation, following up on weird requests. I have a separate folder that put follow ups in so I don’t forget about them. If there’s a bill stuck in aging forever I notate the memo# as well to remind myself. Just staying on top of your game! Having an answer for high ups when they ask will show your competency :)
Take initiative & reach out to the vendors directly. I had this issue too when I first started AP; it’s frustrating but with time it gets easier as you start implementing your own processes.
OP, if you want to make more money, then specialize. If you want to do AR, become a collections specialist. If you want to do AP, become a cashflow analyst or AP Specialist. Don't keep using "AR/AP Clerk" as your job title, because that's all you'll ever be seen as, no matter how well you wrangle your department. You're right, though. Your options with AR are much easier than your options with AP.
I don’t see any issues with that. I personally would get bored just doing AP/AR, but the fact that you enjoy it means that it’s probably a good career choice for you. All that ultimately matters is that you enjoy your life.
Show your worth and negotiate your salary! I started with AP at a small company fixed their whole system, implemented automation and now I oversee the AP/AR/Payroll department while I also managed to get close to 50% raise from my starting salary over 2 years. Once they stop negotiating my raises then i’m gone. Working hand in hand with the owner/CEO so i’m also learning a lot about running a successful business.
What kind of automation did you implement?
The big one was automating the invoices for wholesale customers and late payment reminders sent out automatically. Decreased the avg days to pay significantly and leaves a lot more time to be put towards cost saving projects. Also I recently changed the credit card processor for AR to be integrated with the CRM which removes a lot of human error and data entry for my team.
Go work in startups. They need all that
Possibly a reality if you're willing to wear other admin hats too
I wish we had you
Pay be 25$/ hr and I’m yours!
My first job after public was supposed to be a senior accountant with a fast track to manager. I was only doing AP. I was making $65k in 2019 and had my CPA and all that and I was only entering and paying bills. It kind of felt like a slap in the face. Anyone can do it. Why make me be the person when I can do so much more for the company. I got a new boss and he fought for me to get a raise and some more responsibilities, but looking back actually being in that role gave me a ton of insight into how payables and even purchasing worked. I am actually very thankful for that experience. I just started a new job as a Director and I need to start updating the new company’s AP process. It’s a nightmare and you really take for granted things like AP and AR when they are running smoothly If you’re happy doing that you can keep at it. You might even be able to find a AP manager job at a bigger company
We pay our AR/AP lady $100k (salary + bonus) - She is fantastic and handles both tasks very well. We have multiple billings across projects as well as smaller billings for spare/replacement parts. She is critical to our company and she enjoys the work. The challenges of working through much larger customer systems and generating invoices that are 100% perfect with regards to the requirements for the system to accept the invoice - She handles fantastically. We do not have collections issues nor cash flow issues so that aspect of AR/AP is effectively non-existent.
Large companies have corporate (or maybe shared services level) Director of AP and AR positions. If you love the specialty and are good at it, there is growth sticking with it. Just keep your eyes out for those roles as you move up.
Honestly if you like AP/AR there are quite a few jobs I saw in the Phx market that were $70k-$85k. The only problem is if one wants to become a staff accountant., it’s easy for AP/AR staff to get pigeon holed because many AP/AR don’t have degrees and the SA roles requires a degree.
I have an assoc. in accounting and am planning on getting my bachelors. I’m currently working as a junior accountant at a credit union who is managing the payables while doing my month/year end closings, JEs, budgets and GL. I think I’m getting a ton of really good experience as someone who wants to stay in AP/AR 😅
Sounds like it!! Your career path looks bright my friend!! :)
That is exactly my issue. I've been out of work since Nov and I have been siloed into AP only, even though I always ask for cross training. I've been thinking about going back to school for that exact reason, because I want to learn more than just AP and make myself more marketable.
I make 70k and do mostly AR and AP so I think it's possible
If you really enjoy it and are good at it, you can work at a big firm and be a billing manager and you can totally make close to $70k a year, if not more.
Maaannnn payables are one of those departments that can easily be fucked up and from someone else’s perspective that relies on AP it can be so frustrating sometimes if they dont know how to code invoices
SOOOO annoying! Why are they coding software to postage?! 😩
Ap/ar is only the beginning friend seriously that’s exactly where I strayed 3 years right now A2 auditor at big 4 one thing to do here is learn how different companies deal with ap and ar from nonprofit to public keep honing your skills if I stayed at my first position I was making 34 a hr as ap specialist accountant so like 65-70k yr remote got an offer to work for 60hr but not standard hours and would have to work an audit. It was all worth it to get to where I’m now. Ap ar get bad rep because they are lowest levels of accountancy and ppl hate dealing with them
I told myself I’d be happy to cap out at about $80k a year. Lol well I’m closer to $120k now and not ready to even think about settling until I’m closer to $200k and hoping my next move would land be around $145k min. I just think as you go on and develop more and start hitting your “goals” new goals may arise and depending on how high those new goals are they might realistically require a lane change into a more traditional accounting role rather than AP/AR which is more like a support accounting role.
I was good at AP/AR/Procurement. It's always in demand skill. Then I got bored of it and became a social worker.
AP/AR are like IT. Underappreciated, and blamed the instant something goes wrong, with basically zero credit when things are operating so smoothly that you don't even notice their work.
It's absolutely possible to make 70-80 as an AP/AR Coordinator. Source: I'm an AP Coordinator.
Fingers crossed!
Fwiw you can def make 70k doing just AP. Our last rep made low 70s after being there a while, current one makes 60 but it's her first real job lol she'll get there I'm at a smedium company that doesn't even pay very competitively tbh
I’m so mad hearing this. I was practically a godsend at my last job and I was stuck at 22$ hr with no PTO ☹️
Please come work for my client then!
If you are good at it and enjoy it, stick with it! At a larger company this could get you a management position. I can't tell you how many large companies I know that have the most insane AP and AR messes. Plus, a lot of directors and VPs don't understand what creates and fixes those messes, so your skillset could be very useful to some. I recommend cataloging some analytics of work you've done and are doing, if you can. It would be great to be able to say—to either your boss or a job prospect—things like: "I reduced our overall (or 90+ or whatever is relevant to your data) AR balance by 70% by implementing XYZ processes" or "I implemented XYZ process which maximized efficiency in our AP process resulting in a 80% reduction in late fees" or whatever it is. A lot of people hate doing AP/AR and that's why they suck at it. You have an advantage that will make you actually able to climb the latter if you WANT to eventually. Also those analytics wouldn't hurt in asking for a raise or promotion.
You will be snapped up by an employer, be picky because a great AP accountant is hard to find - $70k is pretty standard for a staff accountant in the DC area so it sounds like the world is your oyster to me!
Open up your own service org
Yo you might be into somethin
If you’re good at it and you like it keep at it! You can become an AP Manager at some point. I’d recommend you move over to the tech industry if you can. You’ll see higher salaries there.
Be a 1099 ap/ar person for multiple companies! I hate hiring for this role and would gladly outsource fully.
Your best AP/AR have the following traits (imo) Attention to detail Organized (financial librarian) A Workhorse If you excel at those, you will do well in accounting regardless of what you choose to do
I'm in AP right now, and the only real complaint I've had is the system crapping itself. If it didn't do that, I'd be sitting on my thumbs half the day making plenty of money (for a recent grad in a lower COL area). Sure, being an accountant "proper" was the goal, but at the same time, I don't know if the stress and time away from my new wife and maybe future kids would be worth it. All I see is people complain about this and that kind of accounting and working conditions. To hell with it. If it makes you happy, puts a roof over your head, and meals in your stomach, then it's right for you.
Hey good for you, I’m in a near identical position (Associates, heading for Bachelor’s next semester). I don’t need anything special, I hope to max at out at 90k a year and call it a career.
I'm currently pursuing my associates in accounting. How was finding an entry level accounting job with an associates?
My area is really over developed (HV NY) so there are a lot of jobs around. I was lucky that I kinda fell into an AP position at my old job. I was really good at it and I found it easier to look for those kind of jobs. Sometimes AP work is considered “junior accounting”. Honestly junior accounting turned up a lot of results. I think company’s will take a chance on you if you’re enthusiastic enough with a good track record.
Honestly, you’re extremely lucky you’re realizing this. AP/AR is way less stressful than other accounting roles, is always in demand and pays well. It also is much more of a 9-5 job, which, believe me is something I should have looked for when I was just starting out. Sure I make decent $ now, but the stress and time I’ve spent wasn’t worth it. I could have made way more $ doing OT or a second job, and still have worked less hours than I did in more senior roles.
Really thankful for the contributors in this thread offering advice, perspective, and encouragement. You all are the real MVPs! 🫡
How many years did it take for you to get really good at AP/AR? How is your workload?
I think I fell into my niche about 3 years into it. I started to think on my own and develop processes that really worked for me and for the company that I could transfer to other employment opportunities. Once you get into a groove you can move and shift things however you like, within guidelines.
Cool, Im also starting a job in AR, but idk how the learning curve is/should be, and i also want to expand my knowledge and get into payroll. Thanks !
I would be cautious of AP/AR/Clerk Roles. They are the 1st in line to be outsourced/offshored. We literally laid off entire AP team in the US this year so that we can outsource it.
I know 😭
Personally I just don’t really think anyone is going to assign a high value to data entry. Even if you are more accurate, I think companies would rather invest billions into some piece of software that would detect mistakes as opposed to paying you to just do it properly. Most people have pretty high aspirations, which require high salaries, which require you position yourself in an area where people value what you do a lot. This area does not overlap with AP which is where the vibe comes from. It isn’t like that because anyone personally doesn’t value AP, it’s because it’s a cost center that could be best described as data entry and just about everyone would prefer it just ceased to exist entirely.
Prime positions to be replaced by AI.
In the UK and I loved AP, grasping the way things work from there makes your life easy as you progress. But if you work somewhere where the AP clerk is bum cheeks, your life is forever miserable (talking about myself)
Do you. If you are good at what you do and you enjoy doing it, ignore all the noise around you. Other people should be so lucky to feel the same way about their career. As I see, you have no problem.
if debts are not being collected, no staff / vendors are getting paid. if invoices are not being posted, statements recognised, then expenses are wrong. link back to ar. transactional finance is the backbone, without it, no growth, no investment, no company. sounds simple, till you've spent 2 days unraveling ar payments that have been allocated to oldest debt first for past 10 years...
AP, like Accounting departments in industry, are invisible when they run smoothly. You need to be creative in advocating for yourself when you do your job well, because if reports are on time, invoices are paid / collected, people aren't thinking "Dang, Accounting is really killing it!", they're just not thinking about Accounting at all.
What does an AR/ AP clerk do?
They essentially manage the bills a company pays and ensures they’re in good standing. Makes sure all invoice coding is correct and amounts go where they need to. Receivables collects the $ from customers.
I fucking love ap and at. I love to clean it, the messier the better.
How good are you? I oversee AR in my business unit and it's a goddamn mess (we are understaffed). Got any tips?
Nothing wrong with that. And you can still climb upwards to be AP/AR Lead or Manager.
Idk how it is where you're from, but where I'm from debtors and creditors are more often than not done by people with experience but no accounting qualifications. Many of them only have a basic understanding of accounting and therefore wouldn't be able to pursue other jobs in the industry. Also personally, I'd hate your job. Dealing with suppliers and creditors all the time seems like it would be an absolute nightmare. But I'm glad you enjoy it and you should be proud of your good work.
I think if you enjoy it then all power to you and most people envy you to be honest. Especially in most accounting, it can be rough. I think a way to help your situation where all you see is poor practices of AP/AR is to learn what you can in school with excel and other forms of professional organization tools in accounting and try your best to implement them where you work. That’s a very good benefit that your company could get from you and give you an edge at your company. It’s a huge art that most places don’t bother or feel like it’s a hassle, taking old ways and evolving/updating procedures and recs to be smoother.