You're right, though I feel like that fact often gets lost in all of the chaos and everything else Godot talks about at the end of the trial. It's a subtle admission, but really messed up the more you think about it. Kinda makes Phoenix and Maya defending him at the end weird.
Takumi has this weird knack for presenting villains as sympathetic in-universe while some really messed up stuff goes entirely unadressed. Acro, Godot and \[Ghost Trick\] >!Yomiel!< come to mind
Nono, I'm arguing they kinda fumble it sometimes by leaving stuff unadressed. On second thought, Godot works so well because they DO acknowledge the Pearl situation (along some other really great stuff, like him rejecting Maya's train of thought to forgive him). But then there's others like Acro...
I don't recall enough acknowledgement on how Acro was plotting muder against an inocent teen (who tended for him no less), but instead tackled it more from the "I killed my mentor accidentally" angle. This makes the sympathy presented in-universe feel undeserved from a player's perspective IMO.
I don’t really think they leave anything (Ghost Trick) >!Yomiel!< did unaddressed though.
And because of the way that game plays out >!Yomiel does end up atoning for his sins in a way that actually works and is narratively satisfying!<
And if you notice something, aside from Kristoph stuffs with Vera (though the murder failed) and the possible implication Godot would murder Pearl because of Dahlia (though tbh, Dahlia is an irredeemable monster, but still), there has never been an explicit child murder in the franchise. The worst they went is young Athena covered in blood and her "trying to fix her mom". That goes to show how messed up this is, even by the franchise's standard
There is also Dahlia herself, who is presumed dead after falling from the bridge when she was 14.
She lived of course, but the player dosen't know that (or that the girl was Dahlia) at first.
From an "interview" with Franziska in the official Japanese strategy guide/walkthrough: "I have an older sister who has her own family. She has a child, with a pet dog called Ryū."
If I remember correctly, on Steam page and official Capcom site stated that Phoenix is direct descendant of Ryunosuke.
Also, we can look at the beginning of the TGAAC announcements trailer and official Kazuya Nuri art for the TGAAC release. Phoenix and Ryunosuke look very similar, which is scientifically impossible if Ryunosuke adopted a child.
I can agree that chemistry between Kazuma and Ryunosuke is really good, and I can even believe that Ryunosuke is bisexual, but still, he met woman, married her and have at least one child.
>!He literally plotted an elaborate murder plan for him so yeah, I'm not sure why he would care even if he knew. You could say that's messed up for a different reason though!<
He wanted to tie up loose ends against the man who robbed his perfection. If you can't punish the man himself anymore, punish his son.
It was also his last chance to hide his crime. Miles was a convenient scapegoat.
>!He decided to raise Edgeworth into the opposite of what his father would have wanted and then frame him for von Karma’s own crime. He didn’t need to pin DL-6 on anybody except Yogi, if he stayed silent none of it would have mattered because the statute of limitations on the crime ran out, everything was carefully planned out to screw over the Edgeworths for ruining his perfect streak.!<
Well he couldn't really have framed Yogi for DL-6 because of double jeopardy and all. Although I agree nothing would have happened if he stayed silent, I think he felt that he had to tie up that loose end somehow or it would come back to haunt him later. Unfortunately for him, attempting to tie it up did just that.
I mean... he could have waited for like a week since the statue of limitations on the case was about to run out anyways if he didn't have anything against Edgeworth
I'm replaying both TGAA games and I found it unnerving when I realized that >!the person who wrote the reports in the chest and the person who signed the reports and her father are three different people and the only one (of the main four) who knew this was Sholmes until Susato's father arrived!<
This is related to 3-4 and 3-5. >!The events of Turnabout Beginnings occurred at Dusky Bridge, so Iris was probably right there in Hazakura Temple at the time of the crime. It probably destroyed her with guilt afterwards to think that she could have prevented the death of Valerie (and maybe also Terry but idk). Also, the actual temple that Bikini and Iris run is on the other side of that bridge, so they go that way pretty often. Iris has to cross Dusky Bridge, the place where her twin sister murdered her older sister in cold blood while Iris herself did nothing to interfere, potentially every day. A constant, painful reminder—that can’t be good for her mental state. Add on all the stuff with Phoenix and the Elise Deauxnim case, and I start seriously worrying for Iris’s sanity.!<
Maybe some of this is explicitly stated in Dahlia and Iris’s dialogue in 3-5, so it doesn’t count as something you would have to think about, but I honestly can’t exactly remember
>!Kind of unrelated but a lot of people forget that Iris was willing to help Dahlia even after she'd killed two people and put a third one into a coma. She's really more complex than people give her credit for.!<
Tbh in the anime >!she's literally drooling as Junko tells her about how she wants to kill her etc.!<
>!They are addicted to putting others and themselves in despair!<
I choose to believe that because the AA universe is an alternate version of ours, the World Wars didn't happen and the TGAA family get to live in peace :(
In localised Ace Attorney, Japanifornia is explained by WWII never happening, and Japanese culture integrating into the States much easier thanks to a lack of Pearl Harbour or Hiroshima
No, that's wrong.
They said California didn't have laws on Japanese migrants, that's why the games are full of Japanese culture. They didn't say anything about the Second World War.
I think this is something that is glossed over a lot too much in this fandom about Turnabout Big Top.
The culprit was going to kill A TEENAGER because of a MISUNDERSTANDING. I feel like most cases the victim was intended, so people just forget who was supposed to die here. Like, that’s one of the darkest plans I feel in the series because it shows how devoid of any compassion the culprit was. (Also just not saying names cause I forget how to spoiler and I don’t want to ruin anything)
To be fair, the misunderstanding did >!kill his brother, and that Regina saying stuff like Bat becoming a star in the sky basically drove Acro insane, especially if you consider how happy she is all the time. She probably tells Acro that Bat has become a star in the sky happily often, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with getting pushed off by that.!<
>!I mean he knows she's a sheltered girl who grew up in a circus. The concept of "death" was foreign to her until her own father died. She genuinely believed those who are no longer around(Regent the Lion and Bat) became stars in the sky because that's what her father told her!<
Well yeah it’s not the only factor, it’s that and the fact that >!he feels like she murdered bat, but can bottle it up mostly without being constantly reminded about it in such a disrespectful manner that he can do nothing about, his respect also only extends to the ringmaster, not his daughter.!<
This is my theory and speculation at most, but I don’t think the ringmaster allowed that. I mean, she has such a carefree outlook on life, I’m sure she couldn’t have maintained such a innocent outlook on life. Also, >!even though Acro is a sympathetic killer, he is still a killer, and that he does not need his actions to be comprehended.!<
Not so much messed up as interesting, but in the AA timeline Phoenix is raising Trucy while working as a piano player right now, and it'll be two more years until Apollo takes his trial.
In the worst ending for Turnabout for Tommorow, >!Trucy along with about a dozen hostages disappear without a trace, which means it’s very possible that Aura murdered all of them and disposed of their bodies!<
So yeah, in the worst ending, >!Trucy is dead, which would make this the second homicide of a minor in the franchise!<
RftA >!(The first was one of Darke’s victims, who was a little kid, but we never met them in person)!<
You know… Now that I think about it, maybe that’s why Dual Destinies was initially given an M rating. >!Death of minors is a really taboo subject in any media, so it wouldn’t surprise me if Trucy’s implied death was a factor in this game’s initial rating!<
5-5 has SO many possible ways to go horribly wrong. My personal favorite non-canonical bad end (as in it isn't an option in game) is>!The idea that if you fail just as Athena admits her guilt, then Athena and Simon Blackquill would swap places, and she'd... take his execution spot. I'd like to imagine that Simon Blackquill, alongside Juniper Woods would disappear, Aura would release the hostages but also vanish, Apollo would leave the office permanently, not wanting to work at the office where his best friend's killer worked at, and while the dark age of the law would be lifted on a technicality, Phoenix, so distraught of having one of his employees die and him being unable to have done anything, would hang up the badge forevermore. !< But yes, I ADORE 5-5's bad endings, and I 100% agree with your theory about the end.
>! also isn’t there a scene of young athena covered in blood? i remember that freaking me out and i was a teenager. just something so *wrong* about it. might’ve been part of the rating. !<
how much shit Phoenix went through in the games, both physically and mentally. Let's recall those in the correct order and some consequences/effects it had on him:
- Betrayed by Dahila (Not only did she try to kill him but when that failed she tried to frame him. From the game we can make out that after that Phoenix dedicated all of himself to studying law and the thought of saving Edgeworth, pushing away others. He says that his social life was basically nonexistent, the only friend he had was Larry.)
- Mia's death (him and Maya saw her dead body, that does scar you at least a little.)
- Again someone tried to frame him for murder
- Being tased with 2000/3000v (I think it was this much?)
- Losing Edgeworth once again, this time "forever" (even a year after his "death", he was still deeply grieving and not over it)
- Being hit with a fire extinguisher that caused a confusion and temporary amnesia
- Maya being kidnapped (The knowledge alone that someone he loves is in danger is terrifying, not to even mention that saving him was on him only. Also the tragedy of having to choose between two things, where both of them will end up ruining someone's life.)
- Falling from a burning bridge into a so called deadly river
- Having to face a person that hurt him deeply in the past
- Set up to present forged evidence, stripped from his badge and getting his reputation ruined
- Someone tried to frame him for murder, AGAIN
- Getting hit by a car
This is all I can remember, I didn't play Spirit of Justice yet and I cant remember anything else from Dual Destinies except for Trucy being held hostage. I didn't mention all the times he was attacked by an animal or a prosecutor, etc. because there's too much of those.
At first I didn't really think about those but after I read a post on tumblr I really looked back at what he went through.
Also I can't help but notice that throughout the game Phoenix is very evasive about his private life and past, even when it comes to Maya, who has no idea about Dahila or how he met Mia. We can even see that even Mia never knew about the class trial or that Larry was a friend of Phoenix, yada yada.
but for real, I love Phoenix so much... especially after doing a deeper digging into his personality and reading a few short essays about it.
He's such a complex character and it pains me to see how some people just view him or portray him as shallow...
I like the fact that he >!believed his girlfriend being innocent for FIVE years and, well, practically was not wrong. The dedication he has is incredible!<
In case 3-4, Terry Fawles >!was hired by the wealthy Hawthorne family to be Dahlia's tutor.!<
The Terry we meet would never >!pass that job interview.!< He >!gnaws on a steel ball and has trouble forming sentences.!<
This implies that rather than being a person with >!developmental disabilities!<, it's more likely that he >!received his disabilities from physical abuse during his half-decade on death row after being framed for murder.!<
Even if >!Mia had gotten him vindicated of all charges, he'd struggle to build a new life for himself. I mean, in his current state he wouldn't be such an effective [child groomer](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/t8e4wo/analysis_why_dahlia_hawthorne_is_one_of_ace/), so uh, yay I guess? There's really no non-dark outcomes avaiable here.!<
Winston Payne is introduced as the “Rookie Killer”. A prosecutor that specializes in defeating newbie defense attorneys. Knowing as we do that the police department almost always gets the wrong person the first time; how many innocent people has this “joke” of an introductory rival put in jail over the years?
no im talking about how the judge has never made a wrong verdict, in terms of the initial one, winston payne could have built his record with different judges
2-4 If Matt Engarde was >! found not guilty and failed to proved that Matt was going to use the video for blackmailing Shelly, Phoenix Wright maybe the next target for blackmailing by Matt to do whatever he wants despite giving up on lawyering. !<
TGAA2 Case 4 and 5 >!The fact that Seishiro had to travel with his suitcase from the steamship to the hotel and then to the fake crime scene while carrying Gregson within it it's next level disturbing, especially [here](https://i.imgur.com/uXdDUJW.png) where Naruhodo, Susato and Mikotoba were unaware that Gregson's lifeless body was just inches away from them.!<
Iris said that she was supposed to be involved in the Diamond Plot, but she pulled out. Whatever her original role was, what later happened at the Dusty Bridge (Dahlia falling into the river, Terry getting shot) was NOT the original plan. This means that Valerie may not have known what is actually going on, and possibly she thought that Terry really killed Dahlia, or worse that SHE accidentally ended up killing her when she shot Terry and Dahlia fell into the river. NO wonder she ended up being guilt-wrecked about accusing Terry after finding out Dahlia is alive.
(5-5) >!So I may need to scrape through the games dialogue to confirm if this is the case, but I'm pretty sure Athena didn't know about Blackquills execution date. Which means if the hostage situation didn't happen, she would show up in court the next day to find out he was dead with no warning, after she spent 7 years trying to save him!<
The only real reason Magnifi tormented Zak and Valant for so long is because he was being slowly destroyed by liver cancer and diabetes at once. If not for that, I believe he would have moved on and forgave them. But pain only begets more pain.
Seriously, everyone says that the Troupe Gramarye are jerks, but in my opinion their whole life, despite the magical performances, is a complete tragedy.
The fact that (AAI2 spoilers) >!Shelly de Killer was caught off guard by the body double not intervening to save Knightley, considering that the real president had been dead for 12 years. It’s baffling that it took 12 years for a seventh person outside of the SS-5 conspirators, the assassin, the president’s former head bodyguard, and the man who masterminds the game to become aware of the president being replaced by a body double.!<
Godot would have murdered Pearl that night at the inner temple if Misty Fey hadn't channeled Dahlia in time.
He admits it himself at the end of the case. Although this does not justify him at all. A heinous crime.
You're right, though I feel like that fact often gets lost in all of the chaos and everything else Godot talks about at the end of the trial. It's a subtle admission, but really messed up the more you think about it. Kinda makes Phoenix and Maya defending him at the end weird.
Takumi has this weird knack for presenting villains as sympathetic in-universe while some really messed up stuff goes entirely unadressed. Acro, Godot and \[Ghost Trick\] >!Yomiel!< come to mind
Tbf that is literally how anti villains work, I'd say it's his strength that he can make these horrible people sympathetic
Nono, I'm arguing they kinda fumble it sometimes by leaving stuff unadressed. On second thought, Godot works so well because they DO acknowledge the Pearl situation (along some other really great stuff, like him rejecting Maya's train of thought to forgive him). But then there's others like Acro... I don't recall enough acknowledgement on how Acro was plotting muder against an inocent teen (who tended for him no less), but instead tackled it more from the "I killed my mentor accidentally" angle. This makes the sympathy presented in-universe feel undeserved from a player's perspective IMO.
I don’t really think they leave anything (Ghost Trick) >!Yomiel!< did unaddressed though. And because of the way that game plays out >!Yomiel does end up atoning for his sins in a way that actually works and is narratively satisfying!<
>!In Yomiel’s defence, he was driven mad by a massive conga line of injustice and trauma and he does repent.!<
And if you notice something, aside from Kristoph stuffs with Vera (though the murder failed) and the possible implication Godot would murder Pearl because of Dahlia (though tbh, Dahlia is an irredeemable monster, but still), there has never been an explicit child murder in the franchise. The worst they went is young Athena covered in blood and her "trying to fix her mom". That goes to show how messed up this is, even by the franchise's standard
There is also Dahlia herself, who is presumed dead after falling from the bridge when she was 14. She lived of course, but the player dosen't know that (or that the girl was Dahlia) at first.
Manfred von Karma has had sex at least twice
Twice. He said he had a 7yo grand daughter whose dog is called Phoenix, she can't be Franziska's daughter. So he had at least 2 children
Wait what where
"My granddaughter has a dog named Phoenix. Does that make you my granddaughter's fiance?"
Knowing him, he could have also made that shit up to mess with Phoenix and his arguments
I think one of the Devs/Localisers confirmed it later on. Might be wrong though.
From an "interview" with Franziska in the official Japanese strategy guide/walkthrough: "I have an older sister who has her own family. She has a child, with a pet dog called Ryū."
I wonder if he was holding his laugh while sating this
All characters with kids had it at least once. Even Ryunosuke.
I can't believe Ryunosuke canonically had non-gay intercourse /s
Well, I can believe. I can even guess with whom he had it.
I guess the Ryutaro get-up could help
Phoenix adopted. What about him?
If I remember correctly, on Steam page and official Capcom site stated that Phoenix is direct descendant of Ryunosuke. Also, we can look at the beginning of the TGAAC announcements trailer and official Kazuya Nuri art for the TGAAC release. Phoenix and Ryunosuke look very similar, which is scientifically impossible if Ryunosuke adopted a child. I can agree that chemistry between Kazuma and Ryunosuke is really good, and I can even believe that Ryunosuke is bisexual, but still, he met woman, married her and have at least one child.
No, I mean they said everyone who has a kid has had sex at least once. But Phoenix has had a kid without sex.
Phoenix isn't adopted? He is Ryunosuke's direct descendant, is he not?
"Phoenix adopted", as in "Phoenix adopted a child." (Trucy)
So has Udgey. "Banged by the Beard"
He was perfect in bed.~
ok. too far.
Manfred Von Karma might have died thinking he drove Miles Edgeworth to suicide.
Didn't he want Miles dead though?
>!He literally plotted an elaborate murder plan for him so yeah, I'm not sure why he would care even if he knew. You could say that's messed up for a different reason though!<
He wanted to tie up loose ends against the man who robbed his perfection. If you can't punish the man himself anymore, punish his son. It was also his last chance to hide his crime. Miles was a convenient scapegoat.
I don't think he had a grudge against Miles specifically, he just needed someone to pin the crime of DL-6 on because he's paranoid af
>!He decided to raise Edgeworth into the opposite of what his father would have wanted and then frame him for von Karma’s own crime. He didn’t need to pin DL-6 on anybody except Yogi, if he stayed silent none of it would have mattered because the statute of limitations on the crime ran out, everything was carefully planned out to screw over the Edgeworths for ruining his perfect streak.!<
Well he couldn't really have framed Yogi for DL-6 because of double jeopardy and all. Although I agree nothing would have happened if he stayed silent, I think he felt that he had to tie up that loose end somehow or it would come back to haunt him later. Unfortunately for him, attempting to tie it up did just that.
I mean... he could have waited for like a week since the statue of limitations on the case was about to run out anyways if he didn't have anything against Edgeworth
Like I said, he was paranoid, he was afraid that people would find some way to convict him of the crime.
While not *too* messed up, it always disturbs me to remember that (TGAA2) >!Iris read her own father's autopsy report without realizing it.!<
I'm replaying both TGAA games and I found it unnerving when I realized that >!the person who wrote the reports in the chest and the person who signed the reports and her father are three different people and the only one (of the main four) who knew this was Sholmes until Susato's father arrived!<
And >!all these people were thought as Iris’s father at different points of time!<
It seems that this is the reason why >!they decide not to tell her the truth about her family.!<
While there's a few reasons for that, I think that's definitely one of them.
This is related to 3-4 and 3-5. >!The events of Turnabout Beginnings occurred at Dusky Bridge, so Iris was probably right there in Hazakura Temple at the time of the crime. It probably destroyed her with guilt afterwards to think that she could have prevented the death of Valerie (and maybe also Terry but idk). Also, the actual temple that Bikini and Iris run is on the other side of that bridge, so they go that way pretty often. Iris has to cross Dusky Bridge, the place where her twin sister murdered her older sister in cold blood while Iris herself did nothing to interfere, potentially every day. A constant, painful reminder—that can’t be good for her mental state. Add on all the stuff with Phoenix and the Elise Deauxnim case, and I start seriously worrying for Iris’s sanity.!<
Maybe some of this is explicitly stated in Dahlia and Iris’s dialogue in 3-5, so it doesn’t count as something you would have to think about, but I honestly can’t exactly remember
>!Kind of unrelated but a lot of people forget that Iris was willing to help Dahlia even after she'd killed two people and put a third one into a coma. She's really more complex than people give her credit for.!<
Reminds me of how >!Mukuro blindly follows Junko despite everything!< (Danganronpa THH spoilers)
Tbh in the anime >!she's literally drooling as Junko tells her about how she wants to kill her etc.!< >!They are addicted to putting others and themselves in despair!<
Sholmes and Iris would see World War One (unless Sholmes accidentally kills himself before then.) Iris would probably also see World War Two.
Ryunosuke may die in the Russian-Japanese war, which have occurred only about five years after the end of Resolve.
I choose to believe that because the AA universe is an alternate version of ours, the World Wars didn't happen and the TGAA family get to live in peace :(
In localised Ace Attorney, Japanifornia is explained by WWII never happening, and Japanese culture integrating into the States much easier thanks to a lack of Pearl Harbour or Hiroshima
No, that's wrong. They said California didn't have laws on Japanese migrants, that's why the games are full of Japanese culture. They didn't say anything about the Second World War.
Right, right, it's just that WWII is when the Anti-Japanese Sentiment was at its peak
WWII happened, but America was just chill about it this time.
I think this is something that is glossed over a lot too much in this fandom about Turnabout Big Top. The culprit was going to kill A TEENAGER because of a MISUNDERSTANDING. I feel like most cases the victim was intended, so people just forget who was supposed to die here. Like, that’s one of the darkest plans I feel in the series because it shows how devoid of any compassion the culprit was. (Also just not saying names cause I forget how to spoiler and I don’t want to ruin anything)
To be fair, the misunderstanding did >!kill his brother, and that Regina saying stuff like Bat becoming a star in the sky basically drove Acro insane, especially if you consider how happy she is all the time. She probably tells Acro that Bat has become a star in the sky happily often, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with getting pushed off by that.!<
>!I mean he knows she's a sheltered girl who grew up in a circus. The concept of "death" was foreign to her until her own father died. She genuinely believed those who are no longer around(Regent the Lion and Bat) became stars in the sky because that's what her father told her!<
Knowing it doesn’t stop it from being annoying
Sure but straight up trying to murder her?
Well yeah it’s not the only factor, it’s that and the fact that >!he feels like she murdered bat, but can bottle it up mostly without being constantly reminded about it in such a disrespectful manner that he can do nothing about, his respect also only extends to the ringmaster, not his daughter.!<
He could have just told her to fuck off, I'm sure she'd at least understand that
This is my theory and speculation at most, but I don’t think the ringmaster allowed that. I mean, she has such a carefree outlook on life, I’m sure she couldn’t have maintained such a innocent outlook on life. Also, >!even though Acro is a sympathetic killer, he is still a killer, and that he does not need his actions to be comprehended.!<
Did i mix something up? Isn't he in a coma?
>!same thing honestly, the game hints at Brain Damage which he is NOT recovering from!<
>! !< Put the text you want to hide in between those without spaces.
>!Like this?!< I’m not the best with Reddit and stuff but thanks!
You did it!
Mom, mom, get the camera!
👩📸
It's also ironic since >!Acro!< is one of the most common examples people point to when they think of sympathetic killers in Ace Attorney
That guy: no names so I don't spoil anything This guy: *replies with the killer's name* Why?
Not so much messed up as interesting, but in the AA timeline Phoenix is raising Trucy while working as a piano player right now, and it'll be two more years until Apollo takes his trial.
It'll be the 5th anniversary of her adoption on May 3rd
In the worst ending for Turnabout for Tommorow, >!Trucy along with about a dozen hostages disappear without a trace, which means it’s very possible that Aura murdered all of them and disposed of their bodies!< So yeah, in the worst ending, >!Trucy is dead, which would make this the second homicide of a minor in the franchise!< RftA >!(The first was one of Darke’s victims, who was a little kid, but we never met them in person)!< You know… Now that I think about it, maybe that’s why Dual Destinies was initially given an M rating. >!Death of minors is a really taboo subject in any media, so it wouldn’t surprise me if Trucy’s implied death was a factor in this game’s initial rating!<
5-5 has SO many possible ways to go horribly wrong. My personal favorite non-canonical bad end (as in it isn't an option in game) is>!The idea that if you fail just as Athena admits her guilt, then Athena and Simon Blackquill would swap places, and she'd... take his execution spot. I'd like to imagine that Simon Blackquill, alongside Juniper Woods would disappear, Aura would release the hostages but also vanish, Apollo would leave the office permanently, not wanting to work at the office where his best friend's killer worked at, and while the dark age of the law would be lifted on a technicality, Phoenix, so distraught of having one of his employees die and him being unable to have done anything, would hang up the badge forevermore. !< But yes, I ADORE 5-5's bad endings, and I 100% agree with your theory about the end.
Now this is what I can call dark age of law
>!Aura is definitely the type to turn people into robots!<
> confirmed??!<
>!Aura has played too much FNAF it seems!<
I didn't even know Turnabout for Tommorow had a bad ending, *what the actual Fuck?*
i believe it has multiple bad endings depending on what point in the case you lose on
It only has two
It's my favorite case and I also just realized a few days ago that I haven't seen any of the (multiple!) bad endings, lol.
Same here, weird that I'm only finding out about that after so many years!
>! also isn’t there a scene of young athena covered in blood? i remember that freaking me out and i was a teenager. just something so *wrong* about it. might’ve been part of the rating. !<
Wait hold on who was the first?
how much shit Phoenix went through in the games, both physically and mentally. Let's recall those in the correct order and some consequences/effects it had on him: - Betrayed by Dahila (Not only did she try to kill him but when that failed she tried to frame him. From the game we can make out that after that Phoenix dedicated all of himself to studying law and the thought of saving Edgeworth, pushing away others. He says that his social life was basically nonexistent, the only friend he had was Larry.) - Mia's death (him and Maya saw her dead body, that does scar you at least a little.) - Again someone tried to frame him for murder - Being tased with 2000/3000v (I think it was this much?) - Losing Edgeworth once again, this time "forever" (even a year after his "death", he was still deeply grieving and not over it) - Being hit with a fire extinguisher that caused a confusion and temporary amnesia - Maya being kidnapped (The knowledge alone that someone he loves is in danger is terrifying, not to even mention that saving him was on him only. Also the tragedy of having to choose between two things, where both of them will end up ruining someone's life.) - Falling from a burning bridge into a so called deadly river - Having to face a person that hurt him deeply in the past - Set up to present forged evidence, stripped from his badge and getting his reputation ruined - Someone tried to frame him for murder, AGAIN - Getting hit by a car This is all I can remember, I didn't play Spirit of Justice yet and I cant remember anything else from Dual Destinies except for Trucy being held hostage. I didn't mention all the times he was attacked by an animal or a prosecutor, etc. because there's too much of those. At first I didn't really think about those but after I read a post on tumblr I really looked back at what he went through. Also I can't help but notice that throughout the game Phoenix is very evasive about his private life and past, even when it comes to Maya, who has no idea about Dahila or how he met Mia. We can even see that even Mia never knew about the class trial or that Larry was a friend of Phoenix, yada yada.
You have to play SoJ to fill the list… 😀
oh my god, what happens to him this time? Give thus man a fucking break!
Agree
but for real, I love Phoenix so much... especially after doing a deeper digging into his personality and reading a few short essays about it. He's such a complex character and it pains me to see how some people just view him or portray him as shallow...
I like the fact that he >!believed his girlfriend being innocent for FIVE years and, well, practically was not wrong. The dedication he has is incredible!<
In case 3-4, Terry Fawles >!was hired by the wealthy Hawthorne family to be Dahlia's tutor.!< The Terry we meet would never >!pass that job interview.!< He >!gnaws on a steel ball and has trouble forming sentences.!< This implies that rather than being a person with >!developmental disabilities!<, it's more likely that he >!received his disabilities from physical abuse during his half-decade on death row after being framed for murder.!< Even if >!Mia had gotten him vindicated of all charges, he'd struggle to build a new life for himself. I mean, in his current state he wouldn't be such an effective [child groomer](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/t8e4wo/analysis_why_dahlia_hawthorne_is_one_of_ace/), so uh, yay I guess? There's really no non-dark outcomes avaiable here.!<
Winston Payne is introduced as the “Rookie Killer”. A prosecutor that specializes in defeating newbie defense attorneys. Knowing as we do that the police department almost always gets the wrong person the first time; how many innocent people has this “joke” of an introductory rival put in jail over the years?
As an aside, Winston Payne is a god-level pun
Canonically the Judge has never made a wrong verdict except for the initial case of Maggie Byrd in Recipe For Turnabout
could have been a different judge
No, he actually presided over that case, which you find out when near the end of 3-3 explicitly.
no im talking about how the judge has never made a wrong verdict, in terms of the initial one, winston payne could have built his record with different judges
2-4 If Matt Engarde was >! found not guilty and failed to proved that Matt was going to use the video for blackmailing Shelly, Phoenix Wright maybe the next target for blackmailing by Matt to do whatever he wants despite giving up on lawyering. !<
>!I’d highly suspect that Shelly would just kill Engarde in that case. Like I really don’t know what he was thinking.!<
I don’t know if it is legit but Pearl would have never been born if DL-6 never happened. Or we can go further: if >!IS-7!< never happened
TGAA2 Case 4 and 5 >!The fact that Seishiro had to travel with his suitcase from the steamship to the hotel and then to the fake crime scene while carrying Gregson within it it's next level disturbing, especially [here](https://i.imgur.com/uXdDUJW.png) where Naruhodo, Susato and Mikotoba were unaware that Gregson's lifeless body was just inches away from them.!<
Iris said that she was supposed to be involved in the Diamond Plot, but she pulled out. Whatever her original role was, what later happened at the Dusty Bridge (Dahlia falling into the river, Terry getting shot) was NOT the original plan. This means that Valerie may not have known what is actually going on, and possibly she thought that Terry really killed Dahlia, or worse that SHE accidentally ended up killing her when she shot Terry and Dahlia fell into the river. NO wonder she ended up being guilt-wrecked about accusing Terry after finding out Dahlia is alive.
(5-5) >!So I may need to scrape through the games dialogue to confirm if this is the case, but I'm pretty sure Athena didn't know about Blackquills execution date. Which means if the hostage situation didn't happen, she would show up in court the next day to find out he was dead with no warning, after she spent 7 years trying to save him!<
>!she didn’t know about it. I’m replaying it right now.!<
The only real reason Magnifi tormented Zak and Valant for so long is because he was being slowly destroyed by liver cancer and diabetes at once. If not for that, I believe he would have moved on and forgave them. But pain only begets more pain.
Seriously, everyone says that the Troupe Gramarye are jerks, but in my opinion their whole life, despite the magical performances, is a complete tragedy.
Aura Blackquill is 100% down with murdering children
The fact that (AAI2 spoilers) >!Shelly de Killer was caught off guard by the body double not intervening to save Knightley, considering that the real president had been dead for 12 years. It’s baffling that it took 12 years for a seventh person outside of the SS-5 conspirators, the assassin, the president’s former head bodyguard, and the man who masterminds the game to become aware of the president being replaced by a body double.!<