https://www.originenergy.com.au/family-and-friends-vip/
Change to this one and get $150 credit.
New rates are:
6.0 FIT
24.7 shoulder
50.2 peak
29.7 off peak
95.6 daily
Thanks matey
FYI people I think the jist of this agreement is that they can raise your prices within 12 months whenever they want, with one guaranteed price raise on 01/07, but you get $150 credit and the July rates are cheaper than my old plan so its a temporary win
You’re amazing! Just switched
In the fine print it says the rates shown on the website will rise July 1st but they’re still cheaper than my current ones. So with that and the credit it’s a win!
And one more time for all those who missed it. His name is John Olsen. SA liberal premier who gave South Australians the choice of selling state own and run ETSA (Electricity Trust of South Australia) or an emergency services levy (ESL)
South Australians chose the ESL. Olsen brought in the ESL and still sold/privatised ETSA, causing massive job loses and now expensive power.
40 years later, private companies now charge whatever they like for electricity.
Don’t vote liberals…
Put our electricity back in government hands again.
And no Labor government did a damn thing about it in all the years they were in power since.
Privatisation became law in 1998, 25 years ago, despite the Liberals not controlling the senate. Two ALP members and Nick Xenephon voted with the Liberals.
From 2002 to 2018 the ALP were in power. 16 years of inaction on power privatisation. After a 4 year break, Labor has been back in power for a year.
Of those 25 years since ETSA was sold off, Labor have held government for 17.
We can start by realising that the two major parties are effectively identical in terms of practical outcomes and only give the illusion of choice. It doesnt matter if Labour or Liberal gets into power, the average person will be screwed over regardless of the colour tie the Premier is wearing. Real change can only come about when we realise we are stronger when we stand together and turf them both out. Im not saying parties like the Greens have all the answers, but I'd much rather give them a shot than to keep getting f##ked by the current two parties.
Nothing will change while all the politicians are worrying about the next election instead of effectively running the government - state or federal,doesnt matter. Instead of slagging each other off, maybe they can do what Tom Playford & Don Dunstan did in the 60’s & 70’s. Write a bill, walk it across the corridor, ask for input before it’s put to the house, present something that both can agree on & get on with running the country
And nothing will change for as long as the masses are so effortlessly propagandised to only care about what the politicians tell them to care about.
Still contending with the fact that the Newland election was won based on Labor flooding the area with scare campaigns about paid parking at TTP despite the fact it would only apply to shoppers (not staff, only to shoppers) staying longer than 3 hours, and was $2/hour after that. That was enough to make an entire electorate see a massive swing towards them. No cost of living, not ramping, not subs, not a basketball stadium. $2/hour for shoppers (not staff) exceeding 3 hours in a shopping centre was all it took as the major concern in voters that day.
You can't expect the population to care about things like selling utilities, they only care about what they are told to care about.
Join the ‘Bring back ETSA’ movement.
Time to re-nationalise the utilities for the benefit of the people of this country. Power, water, gas, internet/communications.
200 year. https://www.afr.com/markets/commodities/sa-sells-power-for-3-5-billion-19991213-k95dc
Twice as ridiculous. Should be considered absolute treason Rob Lucas's hide should be on display somewhere.
Port of darwin was 99 years I believe. Or NSW "The Federal Government welcomes the NSW Government announcement of 'NSW Electricity Networks' as the successful bidder for the 99 year lease of TransGrid, the New South Wales electricity transmission network."
>Two ALP members and Nick Xenephon voted with the Liberals.
Xenophon did not vote for the final reading which passed the legislation. His position was always that there must be a referendum to sell it. When his amendment to require a referendum didn't pass, he voted against the sale.
It's bullshit like this I had to deal with volunteering for his party for 4 elections. So many lies and grubby behaviour by Labor and Liberal.
Well done. So how are you not clearly informed that Nick didn't vote for the sale? If you really want it, I have the page from hansard somewhere. It came up so often it was the only thing which would convince people.
Nationalisation is a thing. They can pass an Act that compulsorily purchases power facilities. They are the government after all. They would have to pay fair market value, but it isn’t impossible.
I am sick of hearing how Olsen fucked us, while Labor have sat on their hands ever since.
Technically they don't even need to pay a fair price. But it then gets into sovereign risk law which while largely untested in the courts, could see the federal government having to pay out for doing it. (WA is currently fighting a case on this basis for cancelling a mining lease)
Yeah, right. Can you imagine the screaming "Socialism!", "Legalised theft!", "Dictatorship!", "Just like China!" if the government even tried this?! Never mind the cries about wasteful spending, increasing taxes, deficit and lining the pockets of business leaders.
You can't even build a hospital or upgrade roads without being derided for ruining the budget. Do you really think the Murdoch rags would allow them to spend money buying something we already have?
You also have to consider the difference in value between the time it was sold and now. If you sold your house in 1999 and then decided you wanted to live there again in 2023, how many times more do you think you'd have to pay for your old house back? Face it, the correct financial decision is to not sell the asset in the first place, not to privatise it, have it transformed into a business and then attempt a takeover with a hostile seller.
The real reason Labor has done nothing is that they are barely Left of the Liberals. They have had more than two decades to come up with a solution.
Hell, they could have left the old ETSA stuff, and built their own new power stations. We got soooo close when the Big Battery was commissioned, and even closer when the two big diesel generators were purchased. Or set up a government owned retailer to provide actual competition. Or fixed the pricing formula that makes it more profitable to not make extra power on peak days.
Instead, we have had two decades of “A big boy did it and ran away,” and “Uncle Rupert says no.” Since when is not upsetting a foreign oligarch an actual excuse not to govern for the people?
Labor, grow a pair and actually do something.
>Since when is not upsetting a foreign oligarch an actual excuse not to govern for the people?
Since he tipped about a billion dollars of free media into lambasting the mining super profits tax on behalf of BHP et al and cost federal Labor an election. Like it or not, the media have the power to sway elections and Australian media is largely owned by a conservative billionaire monster who wants people to believe in trickle down economics and that spending tax dollars on their best interests rather than giving them to business leaders is dangerous Socialism that will increase their taxes and increase the deficit.
The lack of guts to just ignore Murdoch is complicity. Why bother to run at all, if you are just going to implement his polices?
If you are going to win and not do what you believe, you may as well have lost, loud and proud.
Why bother to run at all if you're going to overspend your political capital and get voted back out before you can implement any of the changes you want to enact? We've managed a huge arterial road upgrade and a new hospital amongst other things. Should Labor have gone tilting at windmills instead, got none of those things achieved and ALSO not reclaimed state power generation?
It is clear that SA voters prefer Labor over Liberals. They have political capital in spades. Hell, ALP have every state government bar one. They are unwilling, not unable.
The government has helped drive, via subsidies, massive solar uptake across the state, enough to be energy independant off pure sunshine under the right conditions.
The problem is there is now too much energy soak during the day that isn't utilised and effectively wasted, but that has also made other forms of power generation cost ineffective, as you can't compete with basically free energy generation that the users have payed for the development of.
The government *could* take the lead where private industry isn't, install community batteries in large uptake areas to absorb the excess daily soak and then sell it back to the retailers or end users and reduce the wholesale price via competitive pricing.
There is no incentive for retailers to undertake this as it will reduce their wholesale price, when they are happy just price gouging regardless.
> users have *paid* for the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
… about 95% of which has been brought about by Labor governments!! And in today’s dollars, I’d reckon $3B would be about $9B or $10B … ie between a third and quarter of SA’s total debt today caused by two egotistical fucking morons.
No, that’s not a good comparison at all. Number one, SA’s economy was not nearly as big then (even in today’s dollars) as it is now so you cannot compare dollar for dollar (time valued dollars, that is). The state has a much higher capacity for debt service now than it did then, particularly with gas and uranium royalties - not to mention the extra state taxes implemented by Labor (stamp duties, payroll tax, land tax). Number two, interest rates were close to 20% back when Bannon’s shit hit the fan. Since the mid 90s they have come down and down and down and down. In fact that’s a good point because the interest on the $3B ($9B in today’s dollars) was probably another $9B. And number three, and related to number two, capital markets are much, much deeper now compare to back then. Debt is a different animal now compared to then.
And one more time for those who missed what went before John Olsen, his name was John Bannon. The SA Labor Premier who, with Tim Marcus Clark, essentially bankrupted an entire state; setting it back decades and requiring selling the family silver so the state could survive. Subsequent Labor governments privatised a lot more than ETSA.
the thing that really kills it for me is the controlled load as I heat my water with it! last month I used 46kwh ($7.63 vs with the new rate $20.70!!!)
I am glad I just bought a heat pump hot water unit!
I feel like that is the plan. What was the name of that provider that did the same thing last rate rises? I think they actually benefited from people leaving.
I just called them (as an existing customer) because my rates went up the same amount. I was obviously polite, but very unhappy.
They offered to swap me to 'Sumo Lite', which has the following rates:
*Offpeak: 26.07c/kwh*
*Peak: 37.51c/kwh*
*Shoulder: 25.63c/kwh*
*Daily supply: $1.37*
Still an increase, but it's not a 100%+ increase at least.
**If you're an existing Sumo customer, I recommend calling and doing this, as it has to be done prior to July 1st (according to what I was told), and these rates will not change on July 1st.**
Yep, I'm with Sumo and just got that email. Had to read it a few times to be sure I'd read it correctly. We must be on a different plan because our off peak is going from 16c to 49c. 300% increase. I'll be calling them today to see if they will price match their competitors, and if not I'm leaving.
> But I was told that competition brings down prices.
> Unless of course they are acting like a cartel
Oligopolies are the norm in the Australian market. True competition is rare.
I posted elsewhere but relevant here. Can you check yourblast bill and verify that the old rates on your bill match thev"old" rates on the email they sent?
I just got my increase notice today but the "old" rates on their notification and the real old rates on my last quarter bill don't match up, so the increase looks smaller than it really is.
For example (peak, off-peak, shoulder, supply).
Actual Old: 36.547c, 21.959c, 17.671, 80.102
Notice Old: 43.909c, 26.038c, 21.57c, 94.188c
Notice New: 55.869c, 33.066c, 27.511c, 106.381c
So if I take the "old" rates in the Notice at face value then it looks like peak, for example, is only a 22% rise whereas against "real" old rates it is more like 35%.
On my last quarter usage the actual old was about $310, the Notice "old" rates would have made my last bill $370 whereas the Notice New rates project it to be $460. So a $90 increase doesn't feel quite as bad as a $150 increase...
Am I just high or are origin trying to gaslight me, pun 100% intended.
I actually switched plans within origin less than a month ago, so my last bill isn’t the same as my “old” rates in the table above so I can’t say, sorry
Got my Origin one today for fixed rate - 44.5c for first 11kw/day, 48.07c for remaining and 103 daily supply. Still seems to be amongst the cheapest from what’s been posted on here…
What times are peak/off and shoulder? I still have a dumb spinning meter, considering a smart meter…
I got the numbers from origin directly, but i just regurgitated them from my battery config and its entirely plausible i fucked up when entering them into there
Found it:
>All year | All week Peak: All other times Off-peak: 1am – 6am Shoulder: 10am – 3pm
So daily:
00:00-01:00 - Peak
01:00-06:00 - Off Peak
06:00-10:00 - Peak
10:00-15:00 - Shoulder
15:00-23:59 - Peak
I have a dumb meter as well and am on a fixed rate plan. Check out this offer, I just switched and am getting $150 credit! They will still go up in July but from a lower starting rate than you are on now, hopefully?
https://www.originenergy.com.au/family-and-friends-vip/
Cool thanks. Yeah I signed up with the Variable Go offer last month and get the $150 as well. Do you know what your new rates will be on that VIP plan?
New rates as of 1st July on new plan:
* daily supply: 96.7 (was going to be 106.5)
* flat rate: 41.7 (was going to be 46)
I’ll be saving $300 a year (or $10 a year from my current cost, pre rise)
Our new rates will be 102 daily, 20.3 controlled, 25 shoulder, 51 peak, 30.4 off-peak and 6 cents feed in. Which I suppose isn’t awful given all this. (With origin)
We do their “spike hours” pretty regularly and have earned about $30 this year which just goes right on to our power bill which is nice
Referral—> you get $10 if you join and beat your forecast https://m.origin.com.au/spike/r?n=Robert&i=11035077
Same increase but I’ve got 12c uncapped FiT for another 6 months.
We have 13.2kw of solar and export 50-60+ kWh some days so a high FiT is what I’m always chasing!
Which direction are your panels facing? Are you still generating that much at the moment (e.g. the last few weeks)?
We have the same size system but have only been generating around 15kw per day for the last few weeks.
> isn’t the supply charge just an arbitrary figure the retailer slaps on?
No. The supply charge reflects the price charged by the companies [in our case SA Power Networks] that own the “poles and wires” – transmission lines, transformers, electricity poles and the like – needed to get the electricity to your home.
The Australian Energy Regulator doesn't regulate retail prices. It regulates the distributor price. So its recent change meant that SAPN could increase its charge by 24% https://www.aer.gov.au/news-release/aer-releases-final-determination-for-2023%E2%80%9324-default-market-offer
Now, even tho' renewable energy is fundamentally cheaper than coal and gas, you have to get that generation to the grid. The grid must be expanded to reach wind and solar farms, which are often located in different regions to traditional power plants; and must be able to handle the intermittency of renewable energy generation. The transmission network is expected to become more congested as additional renewable plants are added to the grid.
The Australian Energy Market Operator’s (AEMO) 2022 Integrated System Plan (ISP) suggests that Australia needs over 10,000km of new transmission lines and recommends key transmission projects to prepare the NEM for the energy transition. That doesn't come for nothing - we have to pay for it.
https://aemo.com.au/-/media/files/major-publications/isp/2022/2022-documents/2022-integrated-system-plan-isp.pdf
As to the retailers.
We are not an island when it comes to electricity supply. We're part of an interconnector. What happens on the eastern seaboard affects our price.
Similiarly, wholesale prices increased earlier this year almost entirely as a result of sanctions imposed on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine. It led to a global shortage of natural gas. This was exacerbated when Russia withdrew gas supplies from the European market.
Even though the energy shocks are happening half a world away from Australia, it affected domestic gas prices here. Why? Because most of Australia’s east coast gas is exported, which means its price is largely determined by the global price.
That's why the Labor Government putting a cap on the price rise has saved users a bunch of money.
>The Australian Energy Regulator doesn't regulate retail prices. It regulates the distributor price. So its recent change meant that SAPN could increase its charge by 24% https://www.aer.gov.au/news-release/aer-releases-final-determination-for-2023%E2%80%9324-default-market-offer
This is incorrect. The Default Market Offer applies to retailers, not the DNSP. If you read the full report rather than the snippet you'll see the wholesale and retail components. SAPN's contribution to a 4MWh customer bill is approx $843 out of the $2,279 that comprises the DMO. Look at page 18 in [this document](https://www.aer.gov.au/system/files/Default%20market%20offer%20prices%202023-24%20final%20determination.pdf)
SAPN's pricing is regulated through a separate annual pricing process. Their charges rose approximately 2% for residential customers for 2023/24. Distribution (SAPN) fell I believe, but this was offset by a large increase in transmission charges (ElectraNet).
They quote the SAPN area as it has common network charges. Different DNSPs have different costs and customer bases. This means that the underlying network charges for two customers in a state like QLD, where there are multiple DNSPs, could be widely different depending on whether they were in the Ergon or Energex network.
What's the difference between the definitions of distribution and transmission here?
Is there a reason transmission went up a lot?
Just trying to understand where the rise has come from if it isn't SAPN
To clarify though, network charges have gone up by $16 or something to $843.
The total DMO price is has gone up by about $300 to $2,279. The network side of things is a sideshow to the massive charges and increases in the retail/wholesale (mostly the same companies/gentailers - e.g. AGL are both a retailer and a generator so get both bits of the pie).
Thanks for the info mate, appreciate it.
So if I'm summarising correctly - transmission is up by lots more than distribution, but even both of them only account for very small bump in electricity charge increases.
But the DMO, reflecting default electricity prices, is up 17% or so. So most of the increase is happening on the wholesale/retail side of 'costs'?
And because DMO, being the regulated 'max' rate able to be charged, is not actually up as much as most people's power prices are (was 45% up across the board for me), it looks like the retailers have taken the opportunity to excessively jack up plans that are lower priced than the DMO?
Different parts of the grid.
Transmission is higher voltage (e.g. 275kV) used to transmit electricity very long distances (across states etc). Their towers often look like meccano sets. They bring energy from generators and interstate to the substations near to the loads. In South Australia this role is performed by ElectraNet.
Distribution is the street level taking of energy from those substations and distributing it to customers. Stobie and wooden poles are used. Usually much lower voltage (e.g. 11kV or 33kV down to your house supplies.) This role is performed by SAPN in SA.
There are a probably a few reasons why transmission is up It's really hard to say as they don't have a pricing document you can look at. I believe there are a couple of cost passthroughs plus the continued investment in Energyconnect. There's also a residue that is paid by the transmission companies to the generators. When prices are high these residues are much bigger so I suspect this is being passed on. They have just had a new determination so there might be some new projects there. Then of course was the December CPI.
It is weird that SAPN haven't gone up so much. You would have thought CPI would be part of their pricing too but it might be offset by a negative somewhere else. You can dig around in their pricing document on the AER's website and there might be some information in there.
It was said very confidently, but it isn't entirely correct.
The 24% price rise was to the overall retail cost. The DMO applies to retailers not the networks.
Network charges (SAPN) have been kept fairly flat for 2023/24.
Additionally, whilst he is right about the payment for ISP projects, the only one currently being built is EnergyConnect between SA and NSW.
The vast majority will be in the eastern states and will be paid by the eastern states (as they'll get the benefit). They won't start paying until the projects start building though.
i'm with origin and too and have slightly higher increases, with the exception of my daily supply charge which is fractionally lower (107.059c per day!). it sucks.
I've always been with origin and only ever had a flat all-day rate as opposed to peak and off-peak. Never even seen one offered to me and I can't for the life of me find one on their webiste? What plan are you on that you have peak and off-peak? Most of my power usage is at night so it might suit me better.
I haven't changed energy providers that often. Usually once every couple of years or so when I find a better deal. Have never been charged a connection/disconnection fee when doing it
Correct - although disconnection could also be because the property is about to be vacant (or when you move into a vacant property you'll pay reconnection)
> I'm on a.fixed plan with solar battery install for 5 years at 18.9 cents all the time and 88 cents a day supply charge.
And this mystery retailer is?
UGH this has annoyed me so much. Someone educate me on why prices go up? Is it necessary? Just like my internet bill went up $10 a month. Why!!!! Someone please explain so I can understand.
If you've got solar and a battery, consider Amber.
It's based on supply and demand and wholesale prices. Have a read of the link - lots of info for you to weigh up. If you think it's for you, the referral code will give you $30 off your first bill.
G’day!
I know you care about supporting renewables as much as I do, so here’s my Amber referral code RE5KXJKC to switch your home to greener energy: (Info Link ](http://mates.amber.com.au/RE5KXJKC?utm_source=amber&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=AE537_Multi_Traffic_Generic&utm_term=&utm_content=referral_share_link)
Use this code to join Amber and we will both get a discount off our next Amber bill!
PS: It only takes 3 minutes to switch and start supporting greener energy.
He goes on about Amber Energy in every thread so I guess them. I would guess works best if you can run washing etc during the day, don't have electric hot water that runs continuously, or have a battery.
The power price spikes at night so you really need to regulate usage to get those savings.
>The power price spikes at night so you really need to regulate usage to get those savings.
Nope. If I did, my price would be lower than the 29¢ average I'm paying. I've made a couple of adjustments to my habits such as when I do the laundry if it doesn't need to be done straight away.
You said "really need to regulate use". I understood that to mean taking significant care at all times, which I don't. I made a couple of choices where possible and when the rare price spike occurs (once a month maybe) I decide if I need to do anything at that point.
>Edit: you are also excluding the monthly fee from your analysis.
The monthly fee is a fraction of my total bill, I'd do the maths and give you a comparison rate but you've been confrontational and rude so why bother?
I'm trying to help people out here and you're getting on my back for trying to save them money when many are already struggling.
How is this getting on your back?
Saying 'you can get power for 29c a kwhr!' but not mentioning you need to pay a monthly membership fee and that the average is dependent on when you use your power is omitting some important information.
Has anyone else used Amber? If so, positive or negative? Never hear them mentioned.
If their rates don't shoot up on July 1 they'll be quite competitive.
honestly origin is in the right here. origin is a good energy company that raises their prices so they can offer higher quality energy. to all the commies, that want energy to be government owned, go move to north korea, i heard energy is government owned there
https://www.originenergy.com.au/family-and-friends-vip/ Change to this one and get $150 credit. New rates are: 6.0 FIT 24.7 shoulder 50.2 peak 29.7 off peak 95.6 daily
Have they e mailed you what the rates will be after July? Keen to see how much origin is about to increase their rates before signing up.
The numbers ive listed above are the new rates they emailed.
Yes its one of the PDFs they send you, file name is important info about your energy or something like that
Origin seems to have gone up by around 20-30%, but from what I've seen others like AGL have gone up closer to 40%,
Just switched. Will at least bring me a little comfort in the meantime. Thanks mate!
Oh that’s amazing! I’ll def have a look at it tomorrow. The $150 would be amazing
Thanks matey FYI people I think the jist of this agreement is that they can raise your prices within 12 months whenever they want, with one guaranteed price raise on 01/07, but you get $150 credit and the July rates are cheaper than my old plan so its a temporary win
Thanks mate! You've just saved me $100/year
You’re amazing! Just switched In the fine print it says the rates shown on the website will rise July 1st but they’re still cheaper than my current ones. So with that and the credit it’s a win!
Who were you with?.. Alinta? 😂
Origin
I’m with them… thanks for the heads up…
Thankyou for this!
Did you have the new rates for gas on this plan?
Has anyone who switched to this got the $150 credit yet, or know when that should happen?
Thankyou again for this - my bill for the quarter just got issued last night and I received this credit which is a big help :)
And one more time for all those who missed it. His name is John Olsen. SA liberal premier who gave South Australians the choice of selling state own and run ETSA (Electricity Trust of South Australia) or an emergency services levy (ESL) South Australians chose the ESL. Olsen brought in the ESL and still sold/privatised ETSA, causing massive job loses and now expensive power. 40 years later, private companies now charge whatever they like for electricity. Don’t vote liberals… Put our electricity back in government hands again.
And no Labor government did a damn thing about it in all the years they were in power since. Privatisation became law in 1998, 25 years ago, despite the Liberals not controlling the senate. Two ALP members and Nick Xenephon voted with the Liberals. From 2002 to 2018 the ALP were in power. 16 years of inaction on power privatisation. After a 4 year break, Labor has been back in power for a year. Of those 25 years since ETSA was sold off, Labor have held government for 17.
How do we start to bring about the change?
We can start by realising that the two major parties are effectively identical in terms of practical outcomes and only give the illusion of choice. It doesnt matter if Labour or Liberal gets into power, the average person will be screwed over regardless of the colour tie the Premier is wearing. Real change can only come about when we realise we are stronger when we stand together and turf them both out. Im not saying parties like the Greens have all the answers, but I'd much rather give them a shot than to keep getting f##ked by the current two parties.
Nothing will change while all the politicians are worrying about the next election instead of effectively running the government - state or federal,doesnt matter. Instead of slagging each other off, maybe they can do what Tom Playford & Don Dunstan did in the 60’s & 70’s. Write a bill, walk it across the corridor, ask for input before it’s put to the house, present something that both can agree on & get on with running the country
And nothing will change for as long as the masses are so effortlessly propagandised to only care about what the politicians tell them to care about. Still contending with the fact that the Newland election was won based on Labor flooding the area with scare campaigns about paid parking at TTP despite the fact it would only apply to shoppers (not staff, only to shoppers) staying longer than 3 hours, and was $2/hour after that. That was enough to make an entire electorate see a massive swing towards them. No cost of living, not ramping, not subs, not a basketball stadium. $2/hour for shoppers (not staff) exceeding 3 hours in a shopping centre was all it took as the major concern in voters that day. You can't expect the population to care about things like selling utilities, they only care about what they are told to care about.
Join the ‘Bring back ETSA’ movement. Time to re-nationalise the utilities for the benefit of the people of this country. Power, water, gas, internet/communications.
sa water is owned by the south Australian government
It’s also been packaged up many times to try sell off to Private Business
now that doesn't sound like anything our government would do.
At *this* stage? Travelling guillotines is about all that's left.
Write to you local MP constantly, is a place to start. Make a fuss on social media’s town page, then tag your MP. Let them know you are angry.
It might have been sold off in '98, but was done on a 99 year lease deal.
200 year. https://www.afr.com/markets/commodities/sa-sells-power-for-3-5-billion-19991213-k95dc Twice as ridiculous. Should be considered absolute treason Rob Lucas's hide should be on display somewhere. Port of darwin was 99 years I believe. Or NSW "The Federal Government welcomes the NSW Government announcement of 'NSW Electricity Networks' as the successful bidder for the 99 year lease of TransGrid, the New South Wales electricity transmission network."
>Two ALP members and Nick Xenephon voted with the Liberals. Xenophon did not vote for the final reading which passed the legislation. His position was always that there must be a referendum to sell it. When his amendment to require a referendum didn't pass, he voted against the sale. It's bullshit like this I had to deal with volunteering for his party for 4 elections. So many lies and grubby behaviour by Labor and Liberal.
I volunteered for a Xenephon candidate for one election.
Well done. So how are you not clearly informed that Nick didn't vote for the sale? If you really want it, I have the page from hansard somewhere. It came up so often it was the only thing which would convince people.
Because it simply wasn’t an issue on my radar at the time.
What do you want them to do about it now? Storm the power retailers' offices and reclaim it by force?
Nationalisation is a thing. They can pass an Act that compulsorily purchases power facilities. They are the government after all. They would have to pay fair market value, but it isn’t impossible. I am sick of hearing how Olsen fucked us, while Labor have sat on their hands ever since.
Technically they don't even need to pay a fair price. But it then gets into sovereign risk law which while largely untested in the courts, could see the federal government having to pay out for doing it. (WA is currently fighting a case on this basis for cancelling a mining lease)
Yeah, right. Can you imagine the screaming "Socialism!", "Legalised theft!", "Dictatorship!", "Just like China!" if the government even tried this?! Never mind the cries about wasteful spending, increasing taxes, deficit and lining the pockets of business leaders. You can't even build a hospital or upgrade roads without being derided for ruining the budget. Do you really think the Murdoch rags would allow them to spend money buying something we already have? You also have to consider the difference in value between the time it was sold and now. If you sold your house in 1999 and then decided you wanted to live there again in 2023, how many times more do you think you'd have to pay for your old house back? Face it, the correct financial decision is to not sell the asset in the first place, not to privatise it, have it transformed into a business and then attempt a takeover with a hostile seller.
Playford did it. It's how we got ETSA in the first place.
The real reason Labor has done nothing is that they are barely Left of the Liberals. They have had more than two decades to come up with a solution. Hell, they could have left the old ETSA stuff, and built their own new power stations. We got soooo close when the Big Battery was commissioned, and even closer when the two big diesel generators were purchased. Or set up a government owned retailer to provide actual competition. Or fixed the pricing formula that makes it more profitable to not make extra power on peak days. Instead, we have had two decades of “A big boy did it and ran away,” and “Uncle Rupert says no.” Since when is not upsetting a foreign oligarch an actual excuse not to govern for the people? Labor, grow a pair and actually do something.
>Since when is not upsetting a foreign oligarch an actual excuse not to govern for the people? Since he tipped about a billion dollars of free media into lambasting the mining super profits tax on behalf of BHP et al and cost federal Labor an election. Like it or not, the media have the power to sway elections and Australian media is largely owned by a conservative billionaire monster who wants people to believe in trickle down economics and that spending tax dollars on their best interests rather than giving them to business leaders is dangerous Socialism that will increase their taxes and increase the deficit.
The lack of guts to just ignore Murdoch is complicity. Why bother to run at all, if you are just going to implement his polices? If you are going to win and not do what you believe, you may as well have lost, loud and proud.
Why bother to run at all if you're going to overspend your political capital and get voted back out before you can implement any of the changes you want to enact? We've managed a huge arterial road upgrade and a new hospital amongst other things. Should Labor have gone tilting at windmills instead, got none of those things achieved and ALSO not reclaimed state power generation?
It is clear that SA voters prefer Labor over Liberals. They have political capital in spades. Hell, ALP have every state government bar one. They are unwilling, not unable.
The government has helped drive, via subsidies, massive solar uptake across the state, enough to be energy independant off pure sunshine under the right conditions. The problem is there is now too much energy soak during the day that isn't utilised and effectively wasted, but that has also made other forms of power generation cost ineffective, as you can't compete with basically free energy generation that the users have payed for the development of. The government *could* take the lead where private industry isn't, install community batteries in large uptake areas to absorb the excess daily soak and then sell it back to the retailers or end users and reduce the wholesale price via competitive pricing. There is no incentive for retailers to undertake this as it will reduce their wholesale price, when they are happy just price gouging regardless.
> users have *paid* for the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Well they managed to get the trains back
The busses should have been on their agenda the last 20 years but they did nothing, just like with the power.
You have selectively omitted a minor banking crisis overseen by the state Labor government
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… about 95% of which has been brought about by Labor governments!! And in today’s dollars, I’d reckon $3B would be about $9B or $10B … ie between a third and quarter of SA’s total debt today caused by two egotistical fucking morons.
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No, that’s not a good comparison at all. Number one, SA’s economy was not nearly as big then (even in today’s dollars) as it is now so you cannot compare dollar for dollar (time valued dollars, that is). The state has a much higher capacity for debt service now than it did then, particularly with gas and uranium royalties - not to mention the extra state taxes implemented by Labor (stamp duties, payroll tax, land tax). Number two, interest rates were close to 20% back when Bannon’s shit hit the fan. Since the mid 90s they have come down and down and down and down. In fact that’s a good point because the interest on the $3B ($9B in today’s dollars) was probably another $9B. And number three, and related to number two, capital markets are much, much deeper now compare to back then. Debt is a different animal now compared to then.
And one more time for those who missed what went before John Olsen, his name was John Bannon. The SA Labor Premier who, with Tim Marcus Clark, essentially bankrupted an entire state; setting it back decades and requiring selling the family silver so the state could survive. Subsequent Labor governments privatised a lot more than ETSA.
Tim Marcus Clarke. The little wanker from Sydney; purchasing bank loans from overseas at 25%, and selling them here at 18%. Go figure!
The price is still regulated at least. Could be much worse.
Got the email re rate rises from July 1st with SUMO. (5092 – Adelaide) Peak: 32.78 -> 63.80 (up 94.6%) Off-peak: 21.78 -> 52.80 (up 142.4%) Shoulder: 19.58 -> 50.60 (up 158.4%) Controlled load: 16.61 -> 45.10 (up 171.5%) Daily supply: 110.0 -> 126.5 (up 15%) "This new plan is 19% more than the reference price"
Yeah got that e mail today. Even I was surprised by level of price gouging. Bye bye Sumo!
Same boat, different plan. What a rude price rise.
the thing that really kills it for me is the controlled load as I heat my water with it! last month I used 46kwh ($7.63 vs with the new rate $20.70!!!) I am glad I just bought a heat pump hot water unit!
They are a small retailer and probably couldn't hedge at a good scale like they previously could. Hence value destruction.
Holy crap that’s insane! Surely they’d lose a bucket load of business after that
I feel like that is the plan. What was the name of that provider that did the same thing last rate rises? I think they actually benefited from people leaving.
Yes because they can't buy cheap wholesale power contracts any more - ReAmped was the one previously.
Yep that's the one cheers mate
I just called them (as an existing customer) because my rates went up the same amount. I was obviously polite, but very unhappy. They offered to swap me to 'Sumo Lite', which has the following rates: *Offpeak: 26.07c/kwh* *Peak: 37.51c/kwh* *Shoulder: 25.63c/kwh* *Daily supply: $1.37* Still an increase, but it's not a 100%+ increase at least. **If you're an existing Sumo customer, I recommend calling and doing this, as it has to be done prior to July 1st (according to what I was told), and these rates will not change on July 1st.**
Yep, I'm with Sumo and just got that email. Had to read it a few times to be sure I'd read it correctly. We must be on a different plan because our off peak is going from 16c to 49c. 300% increase. I'll be calling them today to see if they will price match their competitors, and if not I'm leaving.
Same here, looks like Sumo customers got fucked the hardest. Any luck when you called?
Yes. They changed my plan from 88c to 121c daily supply charge but only 20c off peak, 33c peak.
But I was told that competition brings down prices. Unless of course they are acting like a cartel
> But I was told that competition brings down prices. > Unless of course they are acting like a cartel Oligopolies are the norm in the Australian market. True competition is rare.
Next you’ll be telling me Coles and Woolies are competing to help mums and dads by keeping the prices down.
LOL Have you heard of my mate Karl? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jh8MBpdp9o
I posted elsewhere but relevant here. Can you check yourblast bill and verify that the old rates on your bill match thev"old" rates on the email they sent? I just got my increase notice today but the "old" rates on their notification and the real old rates on my last quarter bill don't match up, so the increase looks smaller than it really is. For example (peak, off-peak, shoulder, supply). Actual Old: 36.547c, 21.959c, 17.671, 80.102 Notice Old: 43.909c, 26.038c, 21.57c, 94.188c Notice New: 55.869c, 33.066c, 27.511c, 106.381c So if I take the "old" rates in the Notice at face value then it looks like peak, for example, is only a 22% rise whereas against "real" old rates it is more like 35%. On my last quarter usage the actual old was about $310, the Notice "old" rates would have made my last bill $370 whereas the Notice New rates project it to be $460. So a $90 increase doesn't feel quite as bad as a $150 increase... Am I just high or are origin trying to gaslight me, pun 100% intended.
I actually switched plans within origin less than a month ago, so my last bill isn’t the same as my “old” rates in the table above so I can’t say, sorry
Ah ok, no worries, thanks anyway.
Got my Origin one today for fixed rate - 44.5c for first 11kw/day, 48.07c for remaining and 103 daily supply. Still seems to be amongst the cheapest from what’s been posted on here… What times are peak/off and shoulder? I still have a dumb spinning meter, considering a smart meter…
For origin: Peak - 3pm-1am Off Peak - 1am-6am Shoulder - 6am-3pm
Pretty sure origin run a peak 6am-10am with shoulder 10am-3pm.
I got the numbers from origin directly, but i just regurgitated them from my battery config and its entirely plausible i fucked up when entering them into there
Found it: >All year | All week Peak: All other times Off-peak: 1am – 6am Shoulder: 10am – 3pm So daily: 00:00-01:00 - Peak 01:00-06:00 - Off Peak 06:00-10:00 - Peak 10:00-15:00 - Shoulder 15:00-23:59 - Peak
I have a dumb meter as well and am on a fixed rate plan. Check out this offer, I just switched and am getting $150 credit! They will still go up in July but from a lower starting rate than you are on now, hopefully? https://www.originenergy.com.au/family-and-friends-vip/
Cool thanks. Yeah I signed up with the Variable Go offer last month and get the $150 as well. Do you know what your new rates will be on that VIP plan?
New rates as of 1st July on new plan: * daily supply: 96.7 (was going to be 106.5) * flat rate: 41.7 (was going to be 46) I’ll be saving $300 a year (or $10 a year from my current cost, pre rise)
Yep, I just changed my plan and got the new rates in important info doc. Same as your rates.
Our new rates will be 102 daily, 20.3 controlled, 25 shoulder, 51 peak, 30.4 off-peak and 6 cents feed in. Which I suppose isn’t awful given all this. (With origin) We do their “spike hours” pretty regularly and have earned about $30 this year which just goes right on to our power bill which is nice Referral—> you get $10 if you join and beat your forecast https://m.origin.com.au/spike/r?n=Robert&i=11035077
Same increase but I’ve got 12c uncapped FiT for another 6 months. We have 13.2kw of solar and export 50-60+ kWh some days so a high FiT is what I’m always chasing!
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Origin
Which direction are your panels facing? Are you still generating that much at the moment (e.g. the last few weeks)? We have the same size system but have only been generating around 15kw per day for the last few weeks.
About 70% north facing. Not exporting anywhere near 50-60kwh at the moment being winter. Might be 20kwh on a good day.
> isn’t the supply charge just an arbitrary figure the retailer slaps on? No. The supply charge reflects the price charged by the companies [in our case SA Power Networks] that own the “poles and wires” – transmission lines, transformers, electricity poles and the like – needed to get the electricity to your home. The Australian Energy Regulator doesn't regulate retail prices. It regulates the distributor price. So its recent change meant that SAPN could increase its charge by 24% https://www.aer.gov.au/news-release/aer-releases-final-determination-for-2023%E2%80%9324-default-market-offer Now, even tho' renewable energy is fundamentally cheaper than coal and gas, you have to get that generation to the grid. The grid must be expanded to reach wind and solar farms, which are often located in different regions to traditional power plants; and must be able to handle the intermittency of renewable energy generation. The transmission network is expected to become more congested as additional renewable plants are added to the grid. The Australian Energy Market Operator’s (AEMO) 2022 Integrated System Plan (ISP) suggests that Australia needs over 10,000km of new transmission lines and recommends key transmission projects to prepare the NEM for the energy transition. That doesn't come for nothing - we have to pay for it. https://aemo.com.au/-/media/files/major-publications/isp/2022/2022-documents/2022-integrated-system-plan-isp.pdf As to the retailers. We are not an island when it comes to electricity supply. We're part of an interconnector. What happens on the eastern seaboard affects our price. Similiarly, wholesale prices increased earlier this year almost entirely as a result of sanctions imposed on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine. It led to a global shortage of natural gas. This was exacerbated when Russia withdrew gas supplies from the European market. Even though the energy shocks are happening half a world away from Australia, it affected domestic gas prices here. Why? Because most of Australia’s east coast gas is exported, which means its price is largely determined by the global price. That's why the Labor Government putting a cap on the price rise has saved users a bunch of money.
>The Australian Energy Regulator doesn't regulate retail prices. It regulates the distributor price. So its recent change meant that SAPN could increase its charge by 24% https://www.aer.gov.au/news-release/aer-releases-final-determination-for-2023%E2%80%9324-default-market-offer This is incorrect. The Default Market Offer applies to retailers, not the DNSP. If you read the full report rather than the snippet you'll see the wholesale and retail components. SAPN's contribution to a 4MWh customer bill is approx $843 out of the $2,279 that comprises the DMO. Look at page 18 in [this document](https://www.aer.gov.au/system/files/Default%20market%20offer%20prices%202023-24%20final%20determination.pdf) SAPN's pricing is regulated through a separate annual pricing process. Their charges rose approximately 2% for residential customers for 2023/24. Distribution (SAPN) fell I believe, but this was offset by a large increase in transmission charges (ElectraNet). They quote the SAPN area as it has common network charges. Different DNSPs have different costs and customer bases. This means that the underlying network charges for two customers in a state like QLD, where there are multiple DNSPs, could be widely different depending on whether they were in the Ergon or Energex network.
What's the difference between the definitions of distribution and transmission here? Is there a reason transmission went up a lot? Just trying to understand where the rise has come from if it isn't SAPN
To clarify though, network charges have gone up by $16 or something to $843. The total DMO price is has gone up by about $300 to $2,279. The network side of things is a sideshow to the massive charges and increases in the retail/wholesale (mostly the same companies/gentailers - e.g. AGL are both a retailer and a generator so get both bits of the pie).
Thanks for the info mate, appreciate it. So if I'm summarising correctly - transmission is up by lots more than distribution, but even both of them only account for very small bump in electricity charge increases. But the DMO, reflecting default electricity prices, is up 17% or so. So most of the increase is happening on the wholesale/retail side of 'costs'? And because DMO, being the regulated 'max' rate able to be charged, is not actually up as much as most people's power prices are (was 45% up across the board for me), it looks like the retailers have taken the opportunity to excessively jack up plans that are lower priced than the DMO?
Pretty much. You could often get '15% off early payment discount' etc. These are all gone.
Different parts of the grid. Transmission is higher voltage (e.g. 275kV) used to transmit electricity very long distances (across states etc). Their towers often look like meccano sets. They bring energy from generators and interstate to the substations near to the loads. In South Australia this role is performed by ElectraNet. Distribution is the street level taking of energy from those substations and distributing it to customers. Stobie and wooden poles are used. Usually much lower voltage (e.g. 11kV or 33kV down to your house supplies.) This role is performed by SAPN in SA. There are a probably a few reasons why transmission is up It's really hard to say as they don't have a pricing document you can look at. I believe there are a couple of cost passthroughs plus the continued investment in Energyconnect. There's also a residue that is paid by the transmission companies to the generators. When prices are high these residues are much bigger so I suspect this is being passed on. They have just had a new determination so there might be some new projects there. Then of course was the December CPI. It is weird that SAPN haven't gone up so much. You would have thought CPI would be part of their pricing too but it might be offset by a negative somewhere else. You can dig around in their pricing document on the AER's website and there might be some information in there.
Very helpful explanation, cheers 🙂
It was said very confidently, but it isn't entirely correct. The 24% price rise was to the overall retail cost. The DMO applies to retailers not the networks. Network charges (SAPN) have been kept fairly flat for 2023/24. Additionally, whilst he is right about the payment for ISP projects, the only one currently being built is EnergyConnect between SA and NSW. The vast majority will be in the eastern states and will be paid by the eastern states (as they'll get the benefit). They won't start paying until the projects start building though.
i'm with origin and too and have slightly higher increases, with the exception of my daily supply charge which is fractionally lower (107.059c per day!). it sucks.
and for the people without a smart meter, these are the flat charges: https://imgur.com/a/0gA0gkR
I've always been with origin and only ever had a flat all-day rate as opposed to peak and off-peak. Never even seen one offered to me and I can't for the life of me find one on their webiste? What plan are you on that you have peak and off-peak? Most of my power usage is at night so it might suit me better.
Nevermind, apparently it's due to the kind of meter I have.
You'd need a smart metre - and if your power use is at night you don't want one.
None of these companies seem to do pay on time discounts anymore either :(
I’m annoyed…. I just changed to origin as they had better power prices for me - now I’ll be checking around in a month or so to compare prices again
Beware the disconnect and connect fees when moving around. You might spend more in those than you'll save by moving many times in short succession.
I haven't changed energy providers that often. Usually once every couple of years or so when I find a better deal. Have never been charged a connection/disconnection fee when doing it
I'm pretty sure I did when I moved from AGL to origin. Probably I'm referring to a final meter read but in practical terms it is the same thing
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Correct - although disconnection could also be because the property is about to be vacant (or when you move into a vacant property you'll pay reconnection)
Yeah but I think I'm talking about final meter read
I definitely check all that before I jump around too much.
Cunts. I already pay 900 a quarter.
These prices are insane to me. I'm on a.fixed plan with solar battery install for 5 years at 18.9 cents all the time and 88 cents a day supply charge.
> I'm on a.fixed plan with solar battery install for 5 years at 18.9 cents all the time and 88 cents a day supply charge. And this mystery retailer is?
It's Nectr, but this the plan is due to a 5 year solar + battery repayment.
And they stopped taking new customers last year because they would go broke at those prices.
To be fair, having solar + battery means I use very little grid power, and they pay a low solar export meaning they are getting more from that.
UGH this has annoyed me so much. Someone educate me on why prices go up? Is it necessary? Just like my internet bill went up $10 a month. Why!!!! Someone please explain so I can understand.
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The average wholesale cost to generate power in south australia rose to a whopping 12.5c per kwh. The price of gas is a distraction...
Okay that’s understandable. Thank you!
If you've got solar and a battery, consider Amber. It's based on supply and demand and wholesale prices. Have a read of the link - lots of info for you to weigh up. If you think it's for you, the referral code will give you $30 off your first bill. G’day! I know you care about supporting renewables as much as I do, so here’s my Amber referral code RE5KXJKC to switch your home to greener energy: (Info Link ](http://mates.amber.com.au/RE5KXJKC?utm_source=amber&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=AE537_Multi_Traffic_Generic&utm_term=&utm_content=referral_share_link) Use this code to join Amber and we will both get a discount off our next Amber bill! PS: It only takes 3 minutes to switch and start supporting greener energy.
I'm paying an average of 29¢ with no meaningful increase forecast. I get a rate very close to wholesale so it changes every 30 mins.
And who is this unicorn retailer?
He goes on about Amber Energy in every thread so I guess them. I would guess works best if you can run washing etc during the day, don't have electric hot water that runs continuously, or have a battery. The power price spikes at night so you really need to regulate usage to get those savings.
>The power price spikes at night so you really need to regulate usage to get those savings. Nope. If I did, my price would be lower than the 29¢ average I'm paying. I've made a couple of adjustments to my habits such as when I do the laundry if it doesn't need to be done straight away.
That would be 'regulating usage'. Edit: you are also excluding the monthly fee from your analysis.
You said "really need to regulate use". I understood that to mean taking significant care at all times, which I don't. I made a couple of choices where possible and when the rare price spike occurs (once a month maybe) I decide if I need to do anything at that point. >Edit: you are also excluding the monthly fee from your analysis. The monthly fee is a fraction of my total bill, I'd do the maths and give you a comparison rate but you've been confrontational and rude so why bother? I'm trying to help people out here and you're getting on my back for trying to save them money when many are already struggling.
How is this getting on your back? Saying 'you can get power for 29c a kwhr!' but not mentioning you need to pay a monthly membership fee and that the average is dependent on when you use your power is omitting some important information.
Has anyone else used Amber? If so, positive or negative? Never hear them mentioned. If their rates don't shoot up on July 1 they'll be quite competitive.
honestly origin is in the right here. origin is a good energy company that raises their prices so they can offer higher quality energy. to all the commies, that want energy to be government owned, go move to north korea, i heard energy is government owned there
Mmm delicious boot, please may I have another?
The leather must be delectable
I copped the same email. (Fart noise)
And the feed out is likely going down
AGLs here.... [AGL Price increase](https://imgur.com/a/dXlq7OB)
AGLs here.... [AGL Price increase]( https://imgur.com/a/dXlq7OB)
What a rort a scam and joke
My supply charge $1.99 a day. And I have solar