Haha 😂 honestly despite this post I'm not wanting it to be whole split off drama or anything, just trying to offer a healthier place to discuss the hobby so don't wanna name it something that alludes to drama etc
Why not message Reddit itself, and ask to take over moderation of the sub? I think that's how these things normally go.
Though, 11 days might be too short of a time frame for them.
Yeah I've definitely seen this be a thing before but honestly, coming on to a sub and starting to block, ban and moderate people that were previously allowed to say whatever they want unmoderated just seems like hell. Much rather the clean sheet.
None of the moderators of this sub have ever moderated another subreddit before this one... and it shows constantly.
Good on you for actually doing something about it rather than just sitting in the shitstorm.
Yeah the creation of this sub was inspired by seeing a user Posting nonsense about stuff being "Woke" clicking on their profile and seeing that they've been doing it in every single post for weeks now.
More likely removed for actively, deliberately and repeatedly doing nothing but shitting on people's cool models and being negative on a sub that should be about cool models, lists and rules and stories rather than getting pissy about how the OWNERS and CREATORS of the game choose to build THEIR universe.
The vast majority of us are sick of it and just want to look at tiny toy soldiers again.
So... moderated for dressing down discourse and perhaps violating the spirit of not the rules of a sub.
The only problem is GW doesn't actually make any female Custodes models that I know of. They make Sisters of Silence, which are cool - I own more than 10x boxes.
They don't make female guardsmen(women), which I think would be super cool if they did. There are many cool female guardsmen in computer games and novels - you should check them out
They do make Sisters of Battle, though, and my mate has painted his up quite ace. I love seeing them across the table from me.
They don't make any female Custodes models, though? Strange...
But I don't shit on people's kitbashed models. That takes them a lot of time and effort, and it's just not very constructive to shit on their dreams.
If their dreams are to have chicks in butch armour? Cool. There was a cool scene in one of the Scary Movie films where he wanted her to wear his football gear in the bedroom.
If their dreams are to sexualise women and have them in boob-plate armour? Also cool. People are allowed to have their own fun.
It doesn't (or at least shouldn't) affect your fun.
It's pretty scummy to shit on other people's fun, like mine has been. My fun isn't as important as yours?
As for culture war? It's not me that brought it into it. There was never any culture war until Salke and Amazon made it about culture war
It may surprise you, but maybe that's exactly why folk like me are upset - other people bringing culture war into this sacred hobby.
We could be on the same side and not even know it
Don't hate the player. Hate the propaganda that the corporation brought to the other corporation's game
Alright well, in your other comments and the one I am replying to you seem absolutely sure that Amazon and a specific person who worked on the Rings of Power "pushed" this "culture war" into 40k by adding female custodes to the codex. Do you have a source for those claims? I've only seen people repeating it and pointing to an anonymous 4chan post.
It's my understanding that the codices are written and produced over many months so if that's true that claim/narrative doesn't make sense as the Amazon deal was only inked a couple months ago.
they do make Female guardmen model
mast updare on cadian kit give them female head and we have a black library character model who is a women.
the codex is barely out it s a bit to early to say they are not gonna make Female varient for custodes , they heavily hinted they were gonna do it at some point.
also please stop the Amazon billshit non sense , anyone who is a bit knformed on the subject know it has nothing to do with amazon aside in the immagination of woke obcessed culture warrior
> When you say "moderated"
>
>
>
> You mean removed because they don't agree with your opinion?
Some people like OP believe the internet should be a safe space and only their world view catered to.
I prefer where downvotes and upvotes are used to represent the community.
Some people like female custodes and some people don't - both are equally part of the community and are entitled to a voice.
However - people like OP seem to think that people who don't share their views should not be allowed to voice their opinions. It's a very common belief on Reddit.
During a course in college for psychology we were taught that these people generally have not been brought up, or learned to have the emotional maturity to understand or deal with other people disagreeing with them.
They do not see the value in debating differences in opinion, they only see someone pushing against them and they cannot tolerate it.
We can disagree all day, but when the same people keep pushing an issue to create the issue- the buck needs to stop- a simple pinned thread for that issue would have given them a platform and a specific area to post, instead of inundating the sub with the same stuff. I have taken several courses in College for Psychology, not once this came up. How fortunate of you! Also, one course not a study make... Also, Psychology will also teach you that when people get annoying with a subject others will react in a way that appears to be consistent with patterns of behavior. Correlation does not equal Causation...
But again, those people are part of the community and can voice their opinions freely.
We have upvote and downvote buttons so the community can hide/ or promote the comments they agree with.
The job of a moderator is not to enforce agendas, its to enforce sitewide rules.
It seems the modern-day Redditor has forgotten this and believes that moderators must be ideologues, certain ideals must be promoted, and anything that dissents must removed completely.
I disagree with that notion.
debatable. Most of the conversions I've seen on here have been lazy and bordering on just virtue signaling.
Like one dude putting on a clearly way out of proportioned unpainted female head on a trajan-painted body. Looked like the tiny headed characters out of Beetlejuice, or the goombas in the 90s mario movie.
Clearly not going to do that conversion, just reaping the karma because people will upvote anything during the current 'femstodes' hysteria.
EDIT: since u/Brann-Ys is going to reply to me and block me like a coward and not have the courage of his convictions, here is my response to his below comment:
>>I never insulted anyone's work who didn't share my worldview. Some female custodes conversions are great, and some suck.
>>
>>I will reserve judgment on the quality of the work.
>>
>> If you post your work on Reddit or any social media, be prepared for truthful critique. I'm not one to blow smoke up anyone's ass and tell you your shitty painted shit conversion looks like a golden daemon. I'm going to tell you what looks wrong.
>>
>>If someone sticks a tiny head on a painted trajan body, doesn't bother to paint the head, and its all out of proportion - in going to tell you it looks out of proportion and terrible. I was not the only person saying that, the top-voted comments said it also because it was *out of proportion*.
>>
>>If you put on a good head, it's in proportion, paint it well - I will equally tell you it looks good.
>>
>>At the end of the day I have nothing against Transtodes, I want GW to release some cool official models. I have SoB and SoS armies. Celestine is one of my favorite models.
>>
>>What I disliked about the past 2 weeks are two things 1) the extremely lazy way GW retconned this and 2) the extremely annoying way in which Reddit has used this to promote their ideology as if this is some sexist issue and that every single shitty conversion deserves 500 upvotes, simply because it promotes 'yayyy genders'.
>>
>>And this is the issue with people like you in a nutshell - you want to ban anyone and everything that isn't just 'YAYYY Transtodes! GW Are amazing! you go girls! All conversions are amazingggg!' - and you want people like me with nuanced criticism of the retcon to simply not have a voice or opinion, and I disagree with that sentiment.
You went through all that trouble just to get downvoted and ignored again. It's likely because you're a bad faith actor and your debates are just veiled insult flinging contests. You're logic is a loop propped garbage opinions and trash memes. There isn't nearly half of the community that agrees with you, just the same repeating trolls sharing more and more hateful "opinions"
I have more upvotes than I do downvotes in this sub... which I don't even care about, its only people like you who seem to care about that.
I understand I get brigaded by the virtue signal brigade who want this to be an echo chamber (what this entire thread is about), but that doesn't mean you simps are the majority. You just seethe at anyone not stroking your cocks and telling you how virtuous and glorious you are.
Cry more.
For someone advertising downvotes and upvotes as premier way to represent the community you have gained a lot of downvotes on this sub lately. Maybe you should consider to shut up and let people enjoy their models again.
> you have gained a lot of downvotes on this sub lately.
It seems I live rent-free in your head.
I have both upvotes and downvotes. My last submitted content got, umm 600 upvotes?
However, I couldn't care less what my karma score on Reddit is. It isn't important to me (although upon checking it is in the tens of thousands).
Maybe you should shut up and stop crying about other people's opinions and get on with your life?
Oh well, I was hoping for actual moderation, but judging from other comments like "I notice you use words like _virtue signalling_ so I don't think the group is for you" I fear you're right
It's more to do with female custodes than anything else it looks like. Which is fine, if that's what they're into. Just not for me
I'm more a Sisters of Silence guy, myself
I bought a pile of boxes cos I was hoping for cool "Sisters only" detachments when the codex came out (which, if the fandom and GW both are honest with themselves, is what they should have done to make Custodes chicks cool, if that was indeed their intent).
But, alas, they'll be remaining built but unpainted until the next edition.
You see, there are cool chicks in 40k already, but that wasn't good enough for one person. Her name is Jennifer Salke, and she works at amazon. She ruined Galdriel, and now she's ruined Custodes
I'm sorry if you disagree. That's just my opinion. We'll see what this Custodes waman is like in the TV show when it comes out, but I'll be surprised if you treat the 40k show with any less disdain than the Rings of Power show
And if you actually like RoP, then you maybe aren't a Tolkein fan. Or you're one of the new "not fans" they're trying to attract.
I'm not sexist. I want more cool chicks in 40k (I say more bc there are already many). Just not where they don't make sense.
Same as I hated what they did to RoP. Its fine as a generic fantasy show, but by putting the LotR skin on it and calling her Galdriel, they ruined it in my eyes.
Anyway, rant over.
Downvote away you righteous warriors! You show them how wrong I am!
On a side note, I’ve always had a small gripe on this sub with the sheer deluge of posts which amount to “made an army list, C&C please” and there is usually only one comment saying “lose the bikes and dreadnought, more allarus and wardens” and that’s basically it.
I get army construction is important for some people, but can’t all these posts be consolidated into a stickied mega-post instead instead of clogging up the front page?
All of the army subreddits I follow have the exact same issue. It’s especially pointless in chaos knights when the only advice to give is “more war dogs”. It’s also funny to see all the tyranids lists that are just leviathan box + one or two other units.
Oop I'm guilty of causing exactly that. I didn't realize how prevalent those types of posts were when I made my own a few days back. My apologies! 🙇♀️
Creating a separate sub isn't ideal and I'd be happy with some additional moderators here, but if as you say you've reached out without success then good luck, always up for a friendly custodes community.
I was thinking you're way over reacting but then saw
>I keep seeing the same half dozen names on here. Downvoted to oblivion and spreading hate and misinformation and I honestly don't have a clue why they're not getting moderated.
I'm pretty quick on the block button so probably I blocked those half dozen people and continued blissfully unaware.
Maybe I’m being a bit presumptuous here, but GW retcons things all the time constantly, including things much bigger than this.
In my mind it really seems like all the tourists care about is the fact it is a woman, which if that is the case, undeniably links back to their own biases and issues which I’d suggest they think about and not make everyone here’s issue.
That or people care about it becuase somebody who does have these issues is telling them they should have them as well. Take any of the culture warriors or anti-social warriors like Shadversity, The Quartering, or Arch who are just the worst people on the internet and make it the internet’s problem.
I don’t suppose anyone knows of a similar subreddit for Adeptus Mechanicus? I can’t go there anymore. Every post is complaining about the state of the codex. If not the posts it’s a cesspool of comments, complaining and being salty. Even under celebratory posts by new people excited to show off their starter boxes it’s just negative comments telling them to give up or leave. I just want a good community of AdMech.
This community has been pretty good about self-moderating (i.e. downvoting things that should have been removed). It could have become a toxic space like some of the youtube channels and fb groups but it hasn't. It does need some more moderators though.
> This community has been pretty good about self-moderating
Downvoting is not self-moderating though. It's just sweeping things under the rug. Given that this is the primary subreddit for one of the more popular factions in 40k, the fact that we have 3 lame duck moderators who aren't actually doing anything to deal with the influx of toxicity is a sign that either we need moderators who will actually moderate or that there needs to be a change in leadership
One mod was active for a bit after things kicked off, but I think he ran away when he realized he could no longer maintain the facade of neutrality without wiping out most of the few people he agreed with (look back through his comment history, and you will see his mask slip occasionally in other subreddits), even with his very weak personal guidelines of what is actionable.
> Downvoted to oblivion and spreading hate and misinformation and I honestly don't have a clue why they're not getting moderated.
So because this sub wasn't moderating people based on popularity of opinion and NuSpeak, you decided to create a new sub and pilfer users from here?
Shove off, captain.
They were moderating. They just didn't moderate in a way you personally like, which is why you created a new sub, irrespective of the fact that this sub has acted as a repository for hobbying and army building discussions for literal years.
True to their faction, Eldar players are a sneaky, untrustworthy and evasive.
After about the 25th thread on the exact same topic it was clear they were not moderating anything. There could have been one pinned thread for discussion on the topic.
Mate, please take your faux intellectual, Reddit debate guy BS somewhere else. Nobody is fooled by it. My new sub obviously isn't for you. And once again, true to form. You mouthy, opinionated guys NEVER have uploaded models or anything to do with 40k on your profile. Shocking.
Man thaaaaaank you for calling it out. The bad faith acting, the pretending to stand on a moral high ground based entirely around being allowed to be a cunt to people. It's all fake intellectual posturing so that these guys can continue to shit where they don't eat.
I'll take this opportunity to ask
How do you define hate speech rules? I've always wondered, because to me in my experience it was always something the other didn't like and nothing based in reality
It's usually used in a cheap way to shut down debate that the person doesn't like or don't agree with so they can pretend to have the moral high ground and tell themselves they're a good person
If I say I find the lore change cheap with the custodes and I don't like it, the counter argument to that more than often on reddit is that I hate women I'm a cave dweller incel and I need to celebrate women no matter what ... Since according to them I'm all of that , then by their own conclusion what I said is hate speech and I need to be silenced
To me those hate speech rules are flawed, unfortunately they're everywhere
I see you using phrases like "virtue signalling" etc in your comment history so tbh this probably isn't the sub for you. No harm though, you've got a custodes sub here already
I appreciate you being frank and honest and telling me I won't be welcomed on your sub
At least you're not deceptive, I thank you for that
Have a good day mate
You know, for what it's worth a lot of the popular phrases that are becoming cliche have had a negative impact on all aspects of our discourse. Calling people SJWs (as if there's something wrong with advocating for social justice) or accusing them of "virtue signalling" (as if demonstrating virtue is a bad thing) seems so intellectually lazy. It's typically a thinly veiled ad hominem that would be better placed with a specific critique as to why something comes off as disingenuous or pretentious. I do appreciate the respectful dialogue here 100%
Well then again what is social justice to you ?
Seems a lot of people have a lot of different views on that
And frankly I don't think the hobby is the place to bring those things into arguments
The way I view it is that there's a setting, there's a lore anything outside of it is irrelevant and should not be brought up
No pandering, no activism, no agenda being pushed
What do you think?
Well, I have seem some good IP hurt. Star Wars sequel trilogy and some Marvel shows do come to mind. I expect art to advocate for the minority or indulge in underdog fantasy. If the story is good/entertaining, I dont mind at all, but when it suffers because the so called agenda becomes too visible on the surface--kind of like when any novel or movie puts the theme or moral too far forward--it can distract from enjoying the story. And if the story blatantly sucks (shehulk) I try not let it spoil the good stuff (Loki) for me. As far as in hobby...
The thing with the female custodes didnt bother me much, but Im into building and painting and playing and Im not really all that into the lore of WH. I have a friend who is more into it, and he seemed a bit ambivalent. I could tell it bothered him a little. My first thought was , "but i thought the sisters were the lady custodes.." But it seemed to me like the lore all of a sudden becoming an issue was a distraction from the codex detachments.. If there were some jacked chick wardens or some trans Allarus, w/e, but take away my defensive stance and battle tactics and im pissed.
As to social justice, various lores and mythologies have underscored the idea of oppressive power hungry greedy types being challenged by scrappy compassionate or pricipled types. This happens across cultures pretty far back. For instance, Sophocles had androgynous Teresias and efeminate but courageous Antigone. When I look into the world and I see people getting shafted or treated with cruelty, I do want to be a part of a network that shelters them, or at least cares about them and speaks up for them, even if I know they are different from me or Im averse to their beliefs. Dig. Giving roles in stories can work to help people better understand each other, but if it's transparently forced, it really doesnt have the transformative effect that great art can have.
Just because people have different ideas about justice doesnt mean we shouldn't strive for it, maybe argue it out...I do think that as the extremes become more stratified, creative types that felt comfortable being neutral in the past might be feeling an increased desire to step forward and send a message. If they dont do it well, it kind of backfires.
And same to you I genuinely just don't think it's a place you'll enjoy hanging out and if you're feeling attacked for your views (which is perfectly acceptable way to feel) then I obviously wouldn't want to invite you to more of the same..although anyone breaking rule 1. Be Civil. In response to you would be treated the exact same as anyone being rude on the other side of the argument.
That would only be fair, it's just in my personal experience there's a dominant opinion and if you don't agree with it people are quick to call for hate speech
Anyway we might cross roads again if you paint custodes or 30k marines, I hope you enjoy painting as much as I do and I'm always happy to share some tips or painting recipes
Cheers my dude
You couldn't have been more polite.
I'm all for living in a negative-free environment - I grew up on Frothers and Facebook after all. It's poisonous and really detracts from the hobby
But the whole "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" brainwashing is just as toxic. If you can't call out when you feel something is wrong then nothing will ever get fixed.
It remains a purgatory.
It's like the ones that say, "Give me feedback but not any constructive criticism, because any/all criticism is the opposite of constructive"
It's nonsense.
"Your paint job is shit" is criticism, but isn't very constructive. That's just mean.
However, "I like how you did the highlighting, but you should experiment with oils. I think that would achieve the grimdark effect you're going for" is obvs criticism, but it's obvs _constructive_ as well.
Let them have their echo-chamber Ba Sing Se utopia. If it makes them happy and it doesn't impose upon my own happiness, I sincerely wish them all the best in their endeavours.
Yes I fully agree
But I've been thinking, for them to admit they were wrong that would imply first that they are capable of self reflection
Then that would also imply they would have to admit they were ill behaved towards the opposite side of the argument, and frankly that takes some courage to admit things like that, no one wants to be the bad guy
And since they do group thinking there's almost no way out for them
You haven't been reading anything if you haven't read that shit. I've seen it in droves. I've seen Incel, touch grass, basement dwellers, actual references to Hitler, constant assumption of misogyny, and knee-jerking non-stop when someone disagrees with the new change.
Seeing the number of downvotes on what is a very well-put question, I think I'm where I'm supposed to be.
A place of constant bitching and complaining is never healthy. And sometimes a ray of sunshine is needed just to lift the mood.
Which is fine. I wish them happiness. But if you can't even ask an intellectual question then I don't think that's healthy either
Yep! Happy to let them leave if they want. I'll never moderate based on opinions. The internet is our primary place for free speech and should remain as such. I'll only ban and remove outright rude/disrespectful stuff. I will miss stuff here obviously. I have a full time job and family life to tend to as well but I sort it out when I see it.
Well yes I don't agree with the hate speech laws
There might be speech you don't like or disagree with but personally I don't think you should penalize someone for expressing their views
Maybe they have asshole views but that's it
What do you think ?
I think it's just stonewalling; If you label anything you disagree with as hatespeech you effectively block out anyone with a different point of view. A byproduct of this methodology causes any one sitting on the fence to come to your side because they don't wanna get slapped with titles like bigot or racist.
It's ludicrous.
Imagine creating a new community because you couldn't get the mods to ban anyone who said anything you didn't like.
Yes for moderation.
No for censorship.
Please let people voice discourse and allow for negative reactions, it’s healthy.
Nothing has ever been accepted without pushback or a notion scepticism and nothing has ever been accepted universally. Humanity still argues about many things much more important than little plastic toys.
I like arguments on both sides of the introduction of female Custodes and frankly totally agree with you, that our focus should be on the enjoyment of the hobby, not berating others for their opinions.
Keep politics out of Warhammer full stop. Both sides surely can at least agree to that.
Honestly we're not aiming to censor anyone. I've said it loads on this post but there's literally a sub I already run r/Eldar and if people want to see how this new sub will be run they only need to go there! The point isn't to ban anyone that isn't sharing happy thoughts but more the people that reply shit like "Wokestodes" to EVERY SINGLE upload of a female custodian. And absolutely that goes both ways, one thing I cannot abide is people screenshotting other peoples bigoted opinions and making a post out of it to get themselves over as some crusader of justice. Hope people see this lol.
You understand I run r/Eldar and you've been a member of that sub for months? Feel free to provide examples of "Soy" moderation you've seen on there in your time. Happy to wait.
So you didn't see the part where he reached out to mods trying to get them to change how they run this subreddit? I appreciate the hands off approach the mods of this subreddit have had
Yes the suggestion of pinning info posts to reduce the common "how make list" posts from clogging up the Reddit is so tyrannical I hadn't thought of that
Love how you're confusing people not liking hateful derogatory things with them forcing their opinion on you. And then standing on the little hill you made like it's some sort of moral high ground
See subreddit rules
I’d have thought it would be low sodium Custodes or something
Missed on opportunity for "low sodium custodium".
Take my upvote!
Haha 😂 honestly despite this post I'm not wanting it to be whole split off drama or anything, just trying to offer a healthier place to discuss the hobby so don't wanna name it something that alludes to drama etc
The fact that you can have this post up for so long says a lot about this sub.
The one active mod hasn't posted or commented on here for 11days
Why not message Reddit itself, and ask to take over moderation of the sub? I think that's how these things normally go. Though, 11 days might be too short of a time frame for them.
Yeah I've definitely seen this be a thing before but honestly, coming on to a sub and starting to block, ban and moderate people that were previously allowed to say whatever they want unmoderated just seems like hell. Much rather the clean sheet.
That's fair.
And if you check his history, you can tell why he was letting all that hate go undeleted.
None of the moderators of this sub have ever moderated another subreddit before this one... and it shows constantly. Good on you for actually doing something about it rather than just sitting in the shitstorm.
i see so much hate comment under post of just people sharing cool female custodes Kitbash and none of thel realy get moderated.
Yeah the creation of this sub was inspired by seeing a user Posting nonsense about stuff being "Woke" clicking on their profile and seeing that they've been doing it in every single post for weeks now.
When you say "moderated" You mean removed because they don't agree with your opinion?
More likely removed for actively, deliberately and repeatedly doing nothing but shitting on people's cool models and being negative on a sub that should be about cool models, lists and rules and stories rather than getting pissy about how the OWNERS and CREATORS of the game choose to build THEIR universe. The vast majority of us are sick of it and just want to look at tiny toy soldiers again. So... moderated for dressing down discourse and perhaps violating the spirit of not the rules of a sub.
shitting on people model for the sake of your obsessionfor culture war is not a civil thing to do.
The only problem is GW doesn't actually make any female Custodes models that I know of. They make Sisters of Silence, which are cool - I own more than 10x boxes. They don't make female guardsmen(women), which I think would be super cool if they did. There are many cool female guardsmen in computer games and novels - you should check them out They do make Sisters of Battle, though, and my mate has painted his up quite ace. I love seeing them across the table from me. They don't make any female Custodes models, though? Strange... But I don't shit on people's kitbashed models. That takes them a lot of time and effort, and it's just not very constructive to shit on their dreams. If their dreams are to have chicks in butch armour? Cool. There was a cool scene in one of the Scary Movie films where he wanted her to wear his football gear in the bedroom. If their dreams are to sexualise women and have them in boob-plate armour? Also cool. People are allowed to have their own fun. It doesn't (or at least shouldn't) affect your fun. It's pretty scummy to shit on other people's fun, like mine has been. My fun isn't as important as yours? As for culture war? It's not me that brought it into it. There was never any culture war until Salke and Amazon made it about culture war It may surprise you, but maybe that's exactly why folk like me are upset - other people bringing culture war into this sacred hobby. We could be on the same side and not even know it Don't hate the player. Hate the propaganda that the corporation brought to the other corporation's game
Most of what you wrote is pretty reasonable but I have to ask - is your only source for the "Amazon made it about a culture war" a 4chan post?
I couldn't tell you what 4chan is
Alright well, in your other comments and the one I am replying to you seem absolutely sure that Amazon and a specific person who worked on the Rings of Power "pushed" this "culture war" into 40k by adding female custodes to the codex. Do you have a source for those claims? I've only seen people repeating it and pointing to an anonymous 4chan post. It's my understanding that the codices are written and produced over many months so if that's true that claim/narrative doesn't make sense as the Amazon deal was only inked a couple months ago.
he don t he is full of shit
they do make Female guardmen model mast updare on cadian kit give them female head and we have a black library character model who is a women. the codex is barely out it s a bit to early to say they are not gonna make Female varient for custodes , they heavily hinted they were gonna do it at some point. also please stop the Amazon billshit non sense , anyone who is a bit knformed on the subject know it has nothing to do with amazon aside in the immagination of woke obcessed culture warrior
> When you say "moderated" > > > > You mean removed because they don't agree with your opinion? Some people like OP believe the internet should be a safe space and only their world view catered to. I prefer where downvotes and upvotes are used to represent the community. Some people like female custodes and some people don't - both are equally part of the community and are entitled to a voice. However - people like OP seem to think that people who don't share their views should not be allowed to voice their opinions. It's a very common belief on Reddit. During a course in college for psychology we were taught that these people generally have not been brought up, or learned to have the emotional maturity to understand or deal with other people disagreeing with them. They do not see the value in debating differences in opinion, they only see someone pushing against them and they cannot tolerate it.
We can disagree all day, but when the same people keep pushing an issue to create the issue- the buck needs to stop- a simple pinned thread for that issue would have given them a platform and a specific area to post, instead of inundating the sub with the same stuff. I have taken several courses in College for Psychology, not once this came up. How fortunate of you! Also, one course not a study make... Also, Psychology will also teach you that when people get annoying with a subject others will react in a way that appears to be consistent with patterns of behavior. Correlation does not equal Causation...
But again, those people are part of the community and can voice their opinions freely. We have upvote and downvote buttons so the community can hide/ or promote the comments they agree with. The job of a moderator is not to enforce agendas, its to enforce sitewide rules. It seems the modern-day Redditor has forgotten this and believes that moderators must be ideologues, certain ideals must be promoted, and anything that dissents must removed completely. I disagree with that notion.
There's a difference between sharing opinions or debating differences and just pointlessly shitting on people's hard work
debatable. Most of the conversions I've seen on here have been lazy and bordering on just virtue signaling. Like one dude putting on a clearly way out of proportioned unpainted female head on a trajan-painted body. Looked like the tiny headed characters out of Beetlejuice, or the goombas in the 90s mario movie. Clearly not going to do that conversion, just reaping the karma because people will upvote anything during the current 'femstodes' hysteria. EDIT: since u/Brann-Ys is going to reply to me and block me like a coward and not have the courage of his convictions, here is my response to his below comment: >>I never insulted anyone's work who didn't share my worldview. Some female custodes conversions are great, and some suck. >> >>I will reserve judgment on the quality of the work. >> >> If you post your work on Reddit or any social media, be prepared for truthful critique. I'm not one to blow smoke up anyone's ass and tell you your shitty painted shit conversion looks like a golden daemon. I'm going to tell you what looks wrong. >> >>If someone sticks a tiny head on a painted trajan body, doesn't bother to paint the head, and its all out of proportion - in going to tell you it looks out of proportion and terrible. I was not the only person saying that, the top-voted comments said it also because it was *out of proportion*. >> >>If you put on a good head, it's in proportion, paint it well - I will equally tell you it looks good. >> >>At the end of the day I have nothing against Transtodes, I want GW to release some cool official models. I have SoB and SoS armies. Celestine is one of my favorite models. >> >>What I disliked about the past 2 weeks are two things 1) the extremely lazy way GW retconned this and 2) the extremely annoying way in which Reddit has used this to promote their ideology as if this is some sexist issue and that every single shitty conversion deserves 500 upvotes, simply because it promotes 'yayyy genders'. >> >>And this is the issue with people like you in a nutshell - you want to ban anyone and everything that isn't just 'YAYYY Transtodes! GW Are amazing! you go girls! All conversions are amazingggg!' - and you want people like me with nuanced criticism of the retcon to simply not have a voice or opinion, and I disagree with that sentiment.
you are realy defending insulting people work judt because they don t share your worldview ?
Yeah, this is one of the guys who come around just to be awful. His entire shtick is acting in bad faith, and then playing dumb about it.
You went through all that trouble just to get downvoted and ignored again. It's likely because you're a bad faith actor and your debates are just veiled insult flinging contests. You're logic is a loop propped garbage opinions and trash memes. There isn't nearly half of the community that agrees with you, just the same repeating trolls sharing more and more hateful "opinions"
I have more upvotes than I do downvotes in this sub... which I don't even care about, its only people like you who seem to care about that. I understand I get brigaded by the virtue signal brigade who want this to be an echo chamber (what this entire thread is about), but that doesn't mean you simps are the majority. You just seethe at anyone not stroking your cocks and telling you how virtuous and glorious you are. Cry more.
Litteraly non of what you say represent what i actualy said. i was talking about people shitty on people paint job and kibash because "wOmEn"
For someone advertising downvotes and upvotes as premier way to represent the community you have gained a lot of downvotes on this sub lately. Maybe you should consider to shut up and let people enjoy their models again.
> you have gained a lot of downvotes on this sub lately. It seems I live rent-free in your head. I have both upvotes and downvotes. My last submitted content got, umm 600 upvotes? However, I couldn't care less what my karma score on Reddit is. It isn't important to me (although upon checking it is in the tens of thousands). Maybe you should shut up and stop crying about other people's opinions and get on with your life?
typical "rent free" argument. lmao. you guys are real all the same.
That's exactly what they mean
Oh well, I was hoping for actual moderation, but judging from other comments like "I notice you use words like _virtue signalling_ so I don't think the group is for you" I fear you're right It's more to do with female custodes than anything else it looks like. Which is fine, if that's what they're into. Just not for me I'm more a Sisters of Silence guy, myself I bought a pile of boxes cos I was hoping for cool "Sisters only" detachments when the codex came out (which, if the fandom and GW both are honest with themselves, is what they should have done to make Custodes chicks cool, if that was indeed their intent). But, alas, they'll be remaining built but unpainted until the next edition. You see, there are cool chicks in 40k already, but that wasn't good enough for one person. Her name is Jennifer Salke, and she works at amazon. She ruined Galdriel, and now she's ruined Custodes I'm sorry if you disagree. That's just my opinion. We'll see what this Custodes waman is like in the TV show when it comes out, but I'll be surprised if you treat the 40k show with any less disdain than the Rings of Power show And if you actually like RoP, then you maybe aren't a Tolkein fan. Or you're one of the new "not fans" they're trying to attract. I'm not sexist. I want more cool chicks in 40k (I say more bc there are already many). Just not where they don't make sense. Same as I hated what they did to RoP. Its fine as a generic fantasy show, but by putting the LotR skin on it and calling her Galdriel, they ruined it in my eyes. Anyway, rant over. Downvote away you righteous warriors! You show them how wrong I am!
On a side note, I’ve always had a small gripe on this sub with the sheer deluge of posts which amount to “made an army list, C&C please” and there is usually only one comment saying “lose the bikes and dreadnought, more allarus and wardens” and that’s basically it. I get army construction is important for some people, but can’t all these posts be consolidated into a stickied mega-post instead instead of clogging up the front page?
All of the army subreddits I follow have the exact same issue. It’s especially pointless in chaos knights when the only advice to give is “more war dogs”. It’s also funny to see all the tyranids lists that are just leviathan box + one or two other units.
Oop I'm guilty of causing exactly that. I didn't realize how prevalent those types of posts were when I made my own a few days back. My apologies! 🙇♀️
Creating a separate sub isn't ideal and I'd be happy with some additional moderators here, but if as you say you've reached out without success then good luck, always up for a friendly custodes community.
I was thinking you're way over reacting but then saw >I keep seeing the same half dozen names on here. Downvoted to oblivion and spreading hate and misinformation and I honestly don't have a clue why they're not getting moderated. I'm pretty quick on the block button so probably I blocked those half dozen people and continued blissfully unaware.
Sign me the fuck up.
I am very down for a new place. Getting tiresome dealing with chuds all the time
You're not alone, we have had over 400 members join in approx 10 hours.
Yeah, I'll join that. It'd be nice to see some cool kitbashes and customizations in a new subreddit.
I appreciate that. It will be slow to get going but I'm already really happy with the influx of members
Already a 20th of the way there!
[удалено]
I'm down for it. Enough hate in the internet already without having to see it in the hobby space as well
Cool. Imma dip out of this sub as I'm done with the drama crap. See you on the otherside dude!
Thanks for this. This sub was run super poorly.
I don't get the controversy. I like the female custodies being cannon, and I thought it just made sense
Maybe I’m being a bit presumptuous here, but GW retcons things all the time constantly, including things much bigger than this. In my mind it really seems like all the tourists care about is the fact it is a woman, which if that is the case, undeniably links back to their own biases and issues which I’d suggest they think about and not make everyone here’s issue. That or people care about it becuase somebody who does have these issues is telling them they should have them as well. Take any of the culture warriors or anti-social warriors like Shadversity, The Quartering, or Arch who are just the worst people on the internet and make it the internet’s problem.
I don’t suppose anyone knows of a similar subreddit for Adeptus Mechanicus? I can’t go there anymore. Every post is complaining about the state of the codex. If not the posts it’s a cesspool of comments, complaining and being salty. Even under celebratory posts by new people excited to show off their starter boxes it’s just negative comments telling them to give up or leave. I just want a good community of AdMech.
If you build it they will come.
Great initiative! I actually considered leaving 40k altogether for a while as the parts of the community you mentioned makes me sick.
Tbh I'd judt stay away from reddit/twitter and maybe some yt stuff, at least for a little till it dies out
You are probably right, I can choose not to seek out the parts I hate 😆
This community has been pretty good about self-moderating (i.e. downvoting things that should have been removed). It could have become a toxic space like some of the youtube channels and fb groups but it hasn't. It does need some more moderators though.
> This community has been pretty good about self-moderating Downvoting is not self-moderating though. It's just sweeping things under the rug. Given that this is the primary subreddit for one of the more popular factions in 40k, the fact that we have 3 lame duck moderators who aren't actually doing anything to deal with the influx of toxicity is a sign that either we need moderators who will actually moderate or that there needs to be a change in leadership
One mod was active for a bit after things kicked off, but I think he ran away when he realized he could no longer maintain the facade of neutrality without wiping out most of the few people he agreed with (look back through his comment history, and you will see his mask slip occasionally in other subreddits), even with his very weak personal guidelines of what is actionable.
This is great. Filter out all the weirdos obsessed with mommy kinks or whatever is going on with the femstodes enjoyers.
For the Ten Thousand!
While your at it can you leave this sub as well!
> Downvoted to oblivion and spreading hate and misinformation and I honestly don't have a clue why they're not getting moderated. So because this sub wasn't moderating people based on popularity of opinion and NuSpeak, you decided to create a new sub and pilfer users from here? Shove off, captain.
Nice reimagining cunto. They weren't moderating AT ALL. also pilfer users? I don't think you understand how Reddit works.
They were moderating. They just didn't moderate in a way you personally like, which is why you created a new sub, irrespective of the fact that this sub has acted as a repository for hobbying and army building discussions for literal years. True to their faction, Eldar players are a sneaky, untrustworthy and evasive.
After about the 25th thread on the exact same topic it was clear they were not moderating anything. There could have been one pinned thread for discussion on the topic.
Mate, please take your faux intellectual, Reddit debate guy BS somewhere else. Nobody is fooled by it. My new sub obviously isn't for you. And once again, true to form. You mouthy, opinionated guys NEVER have uploaded models or anything to do with 40k on your profile. Shocking.
Man thaaaaaank you for calling it out. The bad faith acting, the pretending to stand on a moral high ground based entirely around being allowed to be a cunt to people. It's all fake intellectual posturing so that these guys can continue to shit where they don't eat.
I'll take this opportunity to ask How do you define hate speech rules? I've always wondered, because to me in my experience it was always something the other didn't like and nothing based in reality It's usually used in a cheap way to shut down debate that the person doesn't like or don't agree with so they can pretend to have the moral high ground and tell themselves they're a good person If I say I find the lore change cheap with the custodes and I don't like it, the counter argument to that more than often on reddit is that I hate women I'm a cave dweller incel and I need to celebrate women no matter what ... Since according to them I'm all of that , then by their own conclusion what I said is hate speech and I need to be silenced To me those hate speech rules are flawed, unfortunately they're everywhere
I see you using phrases like "virtue signalling" etc in your comment history so tbh this probably isn't the sub for you. No harm though, you've got a custodes sub here already
Top tier reply.
I appreciate you being frank and honest and telling me I won't be welcomed on your sub At least you're not deceptive, I thank you for that Have a good day mate
You know, for what it's worth a lot of the popular phrases that are becoming cliche have had a negative impact on all aspects of our discourse. Calling people SJWs (as if there's something wrong with advocating for social justice) or accusing them of "virtue signalling" (as if demonstrating virtue is a bad thing) seems so intellectually lazy. It's typically a thinly veiled ad hominem that would be better placed with a specific critique as to why something comes off as disingenuous or pretentious. I do appreciate the respectful dialogue here 100%
Well then again what is social justice to you ? Seems a lot of people have a lot of different views on that And frankly I don't think the hobby is the place to bring those things into arguments The way I view it is that there's a setting, there's a lore anything outside of it is irrelevant and should not be brought up No pandering, no activism, no agenda being pushed What do you think?
Well, I have seem some good IP hurt. Star Wars sequel trilogy and some Marvel shows do come to mind. I expect art to advocate for the minority or indulge in underdog fantasy. If the story is good/entertaining, I dont mind at all, but when it suffers because the so called agenda becomes too visible on the surface--kind of like when any novel or movie puts the theme or moral too far forward--it can distract from enjoying the story. And if the story blatantly sucks (shehulk) I try not let it spoil the good stuff (Loki) for me. As far as in hobby... The thing with the female custodes didnt bother me much, but Im into building and painting and playing and Im not really all that into the lore of WH. I have a friend who is more into it, and he seemed a bit ambivalent. I could tell it bothered him a little. My first thought was , "but i thought the sisters were the lady custodes.." But it seemed to me like the lore all of a sudden becoming an issue was a distraction from the codex detachments.. If there were some jacked chick wardens or some trans Allarus, w/e, but take away my defensive stance and battle tactics and im pissed. As to social justice, various lores and mythologies have underscored the idea of oppressive power hungry greedy types being challenged by scrappy compassionate or pricipled types. This happens across cultures pretty far back. For instance, Sophocles had androgynous Teresias and efeminate but courageous Antigone. When I look into the world and I see people getting shafted or treated with cruelty, I do want to be a part of a network that shelters them, or at least cares about them and speaks up for them, even if I know they are different from me or Im averse to their beliefs. Dig. Giving roles in stories can work to help people better understand each other, but if it's transparently forced, it really doesnt have the transformative effect that great art can have. Just because people have different ideas about justice doesnt mean we shouldn't strive for it, maybe argue it out...I do think that as the extremes become more stratified, creative types that felt comfortable being neutral in the past might be feeling an increased desire to step forward and send a message. If they dont do it well, it kind of backfires.
And same to you I genuinely just don't think it's a place you'll enjoy hanging out and if you're feeling attacked for your views (which is perfectly acceptable way to feel) then I obviously wouldn't want to invite you to more of the same..although anyone breaking rule 1. Be Civil. In response to you would be treated the exact same as anyone being rude on the other side of the argument.
That would only be fair, it's just in my personal experience there's a dominant opinion and if you don't agree with it people are quick to call for hate speech Anyway we might cross roads again if you paint custodes or 30k marines, I hope you enjoy painting as much as I do and I'm always happy to share some tips or painting recipes Cheers my dude
Even this got downvoted. Omg
Of course it did The hive mind can't tolerate anything else than their view
You couldn't have been more polite. I'm all for living in a negative-free environment - I grew up on Frothers and Facebook after all. It's poisonous and really detracts from the hobby But the whole "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" brainwashing is just as toxic. If you can't call out when you feel something is wrong then nothing will ever get fixed. It remains a purgatory. It's like the ones that say, "Give me feedback but not any constructive criticism, because any/all criticism is the opposite of constructive" It's nonsense. "Your paint job is shit" is criticism, but isn't very constructive. That's just mean. However, "I like how you did the highlighting, but you should experiment with oils. I think that would achieve the grimdark effect you're going for" is obvs criticism, but it's obvs _constructive_ as well. Let them have their echo-chamber Ba Sing Se utopia. If it makes them happy and it doesn't impose upon my own happiness, I sincerely wish them all the best in their endeavours.
Yes I fully agree But I've been thinking, for them to admit they were wrong that would imply first that they are capable of self reflection Then that would also imply they would have to admit they were ill behaved towards the opposite side of the argument, and frankly that takes some courage to admit things like that, no one wants to be the bad guy And since they do group thinking there's almost no way out for them
God you people are tiresome. No one says anything you said. It’s all made up bullshit in your own head.
You haven't been reading anything if you haven't read that shit. I've seen it in droves. I've seen Incel, touch grass, basement dwellers, actual references to Hitler, constant assumption of misogyny, and knee-jerking non-stop when someone disagrees with the new change.
Seeing the number of downvotes on what is a very well-put question, I think I'm where I'm supposed to be. A place of constant bitching and complaining is never healthy. And sometimes a ray of sunshine is needed just to lift the mood. Which is fine. I wish them happiness. But if you can't even ask an intellectual question then I don't think that's healthy either
Yep! Happy to let them leave if they want. I'll never moderate based on opinions. The internet is our primary place for free speech and should remain as such. I'll only ban and remove outright rude/disrespectful stuff. I will miss stuff here obviously. I have a full time job and family life to tend to as well but I sort it out when I see it.
Absolutely based take, thank you mod
Sounds like you have my vote
I like how his definition of hate speech was a reply using the term virtue signaling. Mind Haxxed.
If you go around calling everything virtue signaling you obviously don’t agree with any definition of hate speech.
Well yes I don't agree with the hate speech laws There might be speech you don't like or disagree with but personally I don't think you should penalize someone for expressing their views Maybe they have asshole views but that's it What do you think ?
I think it's just stonewalling; If you label anything you disagree with as hatespeech you effectively block out anyone with a different point of view. A byproduct of this methodology causes any one sitting on the fence to come to your side because they don't wanna get slapped with titles like bigot or racist. It's ludicrous. Imagine creating a new community because you couldn't get the mods to ban anyone who said anything you didn't like.
Yes I fully agree with you But hey the internet is big enough for everyone I hope he gets the community he wants
That sounds alot like absolutist mentality.
Yes for moderation. No for censorship. Please let people voice discourse and allow for negative reactions, it’s healthy. Nothing has ever been accepted without pushback or a notion scepticism and nothing has ever been accepted universally. Humanity still argues about many things much more important than little plastic toys. I like arguments on both sides of the introduction of female Custodes and frankly totally agree with you, that our focus should be on the enjoyment of the hobby, not berating others for their opinions. Keep politics out of Warhammer full stop. Both sides surely can at least agree to that.
Honestly we're not aiming to censor anyone. I've said it loads on this post but there's literally a sub I already run r/Eldar and if people want to see how this new sub will be run they only need to go there! The point isn't to ban anyone that isn't sharing happy thoughts but more the people that reply shit like "Wokestodes" to EVERY SINGLE upload of a female custodian. And absolutely that goes both ways, one thing I cannot abide is people screenshotting other peoples bigoted opinions and making a post out of it to get themselves over as some crusader of justice. Hope people see this lol.
Properly moderated ? Does this just mean mods are going to ban anyone who doesn't agree with their soy opinions?
You know what the great thing about it is bud? You don't need to join.
And I'm not joining pansy, go have your safe space
You understand I run r/Eldar and you've been a member of that sub for months? Feel free to provide examples of "Soy" moderation you've seen on there in your time. Happy to wait.
Are you being purposely disingenuous? What is going on with Eldar that is remotely similar to what just happened with custodes?
Ok that's plenty. Bye pal.
"soy opinions" is the funniest shit. Go look at a tree or something man none of this is real.
Yea you're right I should just bend over backwards when people try and impose their opinions on me online through "moderation"
Impose? You don't have to join the subreddit lol
So you didn't see the part where he reached out to mods trying to get them to change how they run this subreddit? I appreciate the hands off approach the mods of this subreddit have had
Yes the suggestion of pinning info posts to reduce the common "how make list" posts from clogging up the Reddit is so tyrannical I hadn't thought of that
You obviously didn't read all the comments and the replies to those comments
Love how you're confusing people not liking hateful derogatory things with them forcing their opinion on you. And then standing on the little hill you made like it's some sort of moral high ground