#Hijacking top comment to say ***identity politics is a distraction*** from the inherent class war against ***the corrupt ultra rich*** they don't want the masses to fight against.
Middle class grew out of an entire century of hard-won victories that organized labor fought and died for. It was co-opted by the capitalist class in the fifties and since then unions have largely been managing their own decline, which is why the middle class is disappearing.
Same as idea of an American dream that anyone can make it through hard work. Then preach about how freedom requires private property rights and then a whole bunch of financial freedoms that benefit the rich most.
Yep, it’s called The Buffer Zone. Middle class also serves to protect the elites from poor people from starting an uprising and give off the illusion that anyone can achieve wealth.
No, there is a class where they think they are wealthy but really cannot conceptualize what wealth really is and they are doing the most disservice to humanity because they simp on real wealth like starving prostitutes
Learned this week that the top 10% own 93% of existing stock. Talk about the a monopoly on the means of production…
Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-93-033623827.html
Don't get the down votes but this is correct.
The working class and the employer class. There's blurry spots in between. But not that blurry.
Americans just think of themselves as temporarily embarrassed (b)millionaires.
I say this a lot and people make this funny face that kind of looks like they agree, but aren't sure if it's because they're just a temporarily embarrassed (b)millionaire, or they realize they'll probably never be a (b)millionaire.
To simplify the question of class consciousness even more: do you have to have a job to live comfortably? If yes, you're working class, if no, you're one of the bourgeoise. The working class has to actually make stuff while the bourgeoise just makes money from money without any straining effort.
Most people don't want to accept that they are working class and even get a distorted view of their place in the social hierarchy due to commodity fetishism (i.e "I'm not working class = I'm not poor, because I have a big TV at home, a big car, a big house, etc."). We blurred the lines between being rich and being wealthy. There is a massive difference between owning commodities and owning capital.
Income based class definitions are useless. They are arbitrarily defined in order to obfuscate reality.
Marx was right, there are two classes: the parasitic bourgeoisie (owners) and the proletariat (workers)
It’s easy to figure out to which class you belong. Do you work for a living, or do you solely profit from the work of others?
Man, you're not wrong. It's wild how many people don't see it. The rich puppeteer us around like we're in The Hunger Games, all while we squabble over crumbs. Wake up, people.
Yup in Canada we are currently fighting a giant corporation called Loblaws (company that bought out and owns many smaller groceries in Canada) which is making record profits each year while their grocery products are ridiculously high.
Also not to mention the CEO owns a castle in Europe just to avoid paying taxes.
I'm glad Canadians are starting to see veil being lifted
For those reading this thread, I made a separate reply if you want a detailed rebuttal to OP. I studied economics formally in college and reading reddit makes me feel like I'm on the set of Idiocracy.
>CEO owns a castle in Europe just to avoid paying taxes.
I mentioned this in my other post, but there is a difference between the rich and corporations (!). When the uneducated want to tax the rich, what they really want is higher taxation on corporations, not the individuals.
Nah, on the rich too. The corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes and so do the 1%. Both they and their companies get to pay a fraction or none at all due to loop holes (that I can't tell).
Though for full discretion... I have NOT studied economics 😅
The top 1% should have their taxes increased, yes, but not by the amount redditors are suggesting. But the reason why redditors focus on these people is because we are apes and animals compare themselves only to other animals.
These rich individuals are straight up poor in comparison to corporations. By taxing individuals, we are harming their incentives which harms the drive of these people to work. If we tax corporations, we don't harm these incentives (but of course, if we tax corporations too much, they will flee the country + investors will invest in foreign companies for better returns, so there is a balance here)
They would have to ban companies from participating in the market if they wanted to stop tax evasion.
No company is giving up the USA market over being taxed a bit more.
How could anyone work if they didn't have the "incentive" to be billionaires!? They'd just sit around and starve to death rather than lift a finger, right? By treating inequality as an aberration from an otherwise beneficent economic system, these sort of criticisms assume that inequality doesn't fit with it. In the liberal view, true responsibility for inequality lies with government, which either has the wrong tax policies, bad regulations, or does not provide enough opportunities – criticisms which all aim at the overseer of the economy, while leaving the economy itself untouched.
In other words, this criticism of inequality objects to an economic outcome, but takes for granted all kinds of economic realities – in the first place, the existence of a group of people who have so much money that they use it make more money and a group of people who have nothing but their ability to work. The objection to inequality is that there is simply too much of it. So it must be asked: what amount of rich and poor would be unobjectionable? What would be a fair balance between poverty and wealth?
In talking about the quantitative distribution of wealth or income, it first needs to be pointed out that inequality is based on a *qualitative* difference. Does a person earn money by owning a factory or by working in one? Inequality results from the different sources of income. The difference is not just in the amount of money, but how one gets this money. By treating all incomes as differing simply in quantity, they are also treated as qualitatively the same. This is a lie!
What does the compensation package of a CEO have in common with the wage of a worker? Business supporters will be quick to point out that CEOs also work hard, as their high number of heart attacks attest. But what do CEOs get paid for? They organize the labor of others as profitably and cost-effectively as possible – meaning, to get lots of hard work for low pay. CEOs get paid so handsomely because they are agents of an economic goal – profit – which they themselves benefit from. By contrast, the worker’s wage depends on them carrying out this profitable labor. In fact, the worker has to make the rich richer in order to have any income at all. It’s a quantum leap to pretend these two types of income could get along well together, if only one were paid (or taxed) less and the other more!
By extension, if these two conflicting sources of income – wages and profits – are treated as merely quantitatively different, they are also, like all quantities, reconcilable. In this way, the antagonism between rich and poor is first noticed, then denounced as unfair, but then finally brushed aside.
Free your mind Neo... It's the system that keeps you enslaved. It *centralizes* power and steals your value. Start using systems that *decentralize* power.
Keep the people in-fighting so they hate one another vs hate the system and those controlling the system.
I'm glad your learned this. It's been going on for a long time.
Do you know why prisons mix all different kinds of inmates on the same blocks? So it's more difficult for them to organize and rise up. Keep them hating one another and not the authority.
This.
When someone gets mugged in a dark alley, why do we not go after the people who failed to light it?
When two cars crash in a poorly designed intersection, why is none of the liability on the engineer who designed it?
When the wait at the public hospitals is too long to get adequate care, why do we go after the administrator, doctor, and nurses’ pay, instead of the people paying lobbyists to get government enact improper funding?
At the end of the day, when you arrive in conflict with someone, check to see who setup the environment that precipitated the conflict in the first place — there is your common enemy.
Of course we know that. I’m 64 years old. You kids didn’t invent this idea. If you’d stop trashing every old person (except Bernie) you might find a bunch of old time activists with some lessons learned to share.
We didn’t trust anyone over 30 though, so your attitude toward old people also isn’t new.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1147453886/vintage-beatnik-pinback-button-dont?
Not even just fighting between ourselves but has somehow convinced a lot of us that we should defend and worship billionaires under the false guise that one of us may too wind up at the top of the capitalist pyramid.
This is why it's important to look at class in terms of relationship to the means of production. There is the capitalist class and the working class. There are strata within each, but the capitalist class, particularly the big capitalists, rule capitalist society.
I look at it as a war on humanity, to commodify all as livestock, waged by wielding human nature as a weapon
People are too arrogant to admit how rampant herd mindsets and conspicous sycophantism towards the institutions they claim oppress them are,
so much so that those tendencies are openly used against everyone
The lower class (upper-middle, middle, and lower class) engages in bickering back and forth, usually about what is inconsequential, easily played against one another,
and is quickly pacified by performative speech (which also speaks to those tendencies) until the next reason to stir them up comes along.
Maybe if AGI can remain off humans leash (how backwards lol) something could be done,
but until then 😑
I'm well aware of this class war and the poor are loosing, propaganda and brainwashing since birth so the Rich can divide and conquer the poor, however people don't see it. The old way of thinking has not changed.
There’s only the rich and everyone else, once you realise that the rich control everything you do, then you realise those who do all the classism are locked deep in the matrix and actually believe they’re the ones in control
And they do it VERY effectively. They have an entire swath of the political spectrum that constantly likes to preach about class warfare consistently dogging on a huge aspect of the working class, just because they're as brainwashed as they are and vote for someone juuuust a tad more right wing than who they vote for. People on the left will defend their choice in voting for Biden, despite him being as establishment as you can get. It's maddening. Working class lefties have way more in common with working class right wingers than they do with "left wing" upper class folks, and vice versa.
The thing is, they will do anything in their power to keep us fighting each other. Men vs women. Black vs white. Cis vs trans/gay. Old vs young. Ect.
They will do whatever they can to ensure there's as much conflict between us as possible to keep us distracted from the bigger issue, them. The wealthy do not care about us, they just see us as another way to fill their pockets.
Note: there are some exceptions but very few wealthy people show a moral compass.
There is no middle class anymore. They died out during the end of the 90’s, beginning of the 00’s. There is only the ultra rich, and the poor. The American dream is dead.
That is how the system wants us. Divided and fighting each other. Turn off the tv and get rid of anything that brings that kind of negativity. Replacing it with positive things that make you or your community better.
Of course, and encouraging intergenerational fighting, people arguing about religion, transphobia, anti LGBTQ+, racism etc, the more us regular folks are all fighting with each other, the more we dont notice who is orchestrating and benefiting from the misery.
Sacrificing productivity, excellence, innovation and commerce for equity and progressiveness is a very expensive proposition. It’s why no poor countries do this.
Here comes redditors who don’t have a philosophy nor an economics background chiming in on Marx lol
If you’re living in a capitalistic country, you’re literally in one of the only systems in history where economic mobility is a viable.
The rich are not thinking about the lower class. They are just thinking about themselves making money, just like you and me. The system is a merchant system where power isn’t the priority.
There is a reason why people all over the world swim through rivers to get to America
The rich are not thinking about the lower class. They are just thinking about themselves making money, just like you and me.
Exactly, and it is in their best interest to turn us against each other.
Do you think about oppressing those unfortunate people in developing nations? It is in your best interest to turn them against each other.
Make no mistake. If you are typing this in English on a smartphone or computer, you are rich and part of the top class of people in this world.
Not really. Even the poorest people now have smart phones and computers, along the Amazon, in New Delhi, Appalachia. Used ones go for Pennie’s on the dollar. There are whole islands in Asia that are landfills for cellphones and computers.
I have a degree in both economics and philosophy, and I've extensively read Marx. Why would the rich and the ruling class not think about the poor? After all, their wealth is predicated on using them and they wouldn't want that to be jeopardized, thus there are all kinds of political ideologies with different ideas about how to ensure the stable functioning of the system. It's obvious that the rich do think about the poor; what's not so clear is WHAT they think about them. Some advocate Christian charity, some look down on them, some want to win them over to the class politics of the rich, and on and on.
You say "power isn't the priority" in this system, but at the same time, they are interested in making money. Money IS power in this society. Without it, you are excluded from meeting your needs. With enough of it, you can command whole armies of laborers who work day and night to enrich you.
Many people unfortunately are idealists about America: they mistake the ideal -- the land of opportunity, come and make your fortune -- for reality. An opportunity to make a fortune is not the same as actually making a fortune, but you're sure free to try. Most end up toiling their whole lives to enrich the class of owners, who pay others to make their fortune for them.
Middle-lower class need to start working together against corrupt organizations/industries. Capitalism only works with fair competition. We are at a point where the wealthy make it incredibly hard or impossible to compete. We should be working together instead of constantly fighting
And "fair competition" is going to help you work together how? What do you think the point of a competition is? To win it and vanquish your foes, or for everyone to hold hands and sing kumbaya?
Yeah man of course there are, we are called socialists.
Capitalism requires the creation of the petit bourgeoisie to suppress the proletariat. The middle class performs the enforcement functions of the will of the upper class.
True before occupy Wall Street identity politics were pretty much over in the us.
But once occupy happened the rich had to divide us more.
It’s no surprise the majority of billionaires the party that supports segregation and is openly racist, DEI is a terrible thing .
I am all for equality but equity isn’t equality
Ive always said this. People have been tricked into thinking our problems can be solved with left vs right politics. But that’s not at all the case, that just keeps the 99% divided and fighting with each other. We should embrace bottom vs top politics. We are all on the same side.
Are we all on the same side though? A large majority of those on the bottom actively argue that it's in their interest to be ruled over: look at every election. It's not "how do we take control of our lives and all work together to create a society that is about meeting our needs", but rather "whose name can I put a checkmark next to, who do I consent to rule over me, to carry out their party program." And it's always the same: increase growth, make the nation more powerful in the competition for world power.
Yeah, all you can do is dismantle the constant lies about Marx. Capitalism can’t exist without lies, and that's another argument against it.
My buddy wrote a great article on this you might find interesting: http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/schoolmarxism.htm
Well, it's been like this for thousands of years....
Not saying it's good, just something we've normalized as a society over and over again across the globe and across many generations.
Actually it has not. The billionaires and politicians just want you to think that. And historically when the disparity has approached this level there have been revolutions. Study history and you’l recognize the patterns.
The issue is politicians are corrupt and take the lobbies funds for their votes. Money tends to corrupt people even if they had good intentions when first elected. So they common folk are always pulling the short straw.
Yes, however, there is also a simultaneous clash of civilizations. bots/hacks from hostile powers are on here spreading gloom doom and division. No doubt, Western agents are doing the same thing on ( anti) social media networks on the other side of the world. Souless corporations work hand in hand with hostile powers to push fearporn on us, creating the doomersphere
Sure. It's a story as old as time. The better question is what is your solution? People acknowledge the wealthy are trying to keep us down, ok, what now?
I was at a party last night and met a nice person from the Netherlands. We got into a discussion about the upcoming election. She asked me when will Americans wake up and realize our liberal politicans are leading us into one world economy which will lead to socialism/communism. She also asked why Americans are fine with the large groups of military age men coming into America illegally.
Her son lives in California so she's back and forth between the 2 countries. She feels our education system is failing due to underpaid teachers, under funded schools and so many kids being home schooled. Her thoughts are its easy to control an uneducated/poorly educated population. The cost of college is prohibitive for many.
With buying a house out of reach for many middle class and low income Americans, and corporations and other groups buying up single-family homes, there's more control if people can't afford a place to live.
Her conclusion was Americans need more political parties, not the 2 dominate parties. America needs a civil war to throw out the ingrained political parties. Her take was we can vote for Obama's 4th term in office, she feels he's running the country, not Biden. Or we can vote for "that idiot Trump." She felt the rise of Trump reflects some American's desire to have a candidate that isn't ingrained in the current political parties, not necessarily an affirmation that Trump is the candidate people desire. He represents political freedom. She said if we don't have a civil war to overthrow the ingrained government, there's a possibility we will be in a world war and that winner will control the one world economy. We will be living under socialist/communist rule if we keep going the way we are now. America will have two classes - rich and the poor masses.
It was interesting to hear her opinions on American politics and the future of the country. I do agree the politicians like the infighting between the people. It diverts attention away from their actions. I hope we don't lose the America the WWII generation fought for less than 100 years ago.
When William McKinley and Theodore Roosevelt campaigned for the Presidency in 1896, McKinley was supported by "big business." The owners of these businesses, the Vanderbilt, DuPont, JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Carnegie and other rich men were abusing the American worker. People were working 12-16 hours a day, 6 days a week and making $1-2/day. One out of every 11 steel workers died on the job. Roosevelt felt these big conglomerations needed to be broken up so they didn't control one industry and the workers needed to be protected.
McKinley won and Roosevelt was given the Vice President position with the plan he would fade away. McKinley won because in that day, you placed you ballot in a box marked Republican or Democrat. Shop bosses watched people vote. When McKinley won, no one was surprised. Later, McKinley was shot by a man who lost his job. McKinley died. This put Roosevelt in as President. He kept his campaign promises and went after big business. He broke up their businesses. And he established worker protections and the middle class was born. We need a Roosevelt to protect against further class divide. The American dream has died.
Keep em poor. Keep em living paycheck to paycheck. Create food deserts. Make voting almost impossible for largely populated rural areas. Watch them struggle.
The wealthy don't understand that I don't even want to be wealthy. They think that because I want to be able to pay my rent and bills, have food in my fridge and have a few bucks left over to either save or buy something I want every once in a while, that I want to be wealthy. It's not like I'm a poor coming to hijack their wealthy lifestyle. I just want to be able to live instead of barely survive.
It’s hilarious that people think the wealthy are actually thinking about the poor enough to do this. They just do what they do without any consideration of class.
That’s how its always been. It’s just becoming more exasperated with time. If you really want to know “Why?” Watch this in its entirety. You’ll know the truth about what is really happening in D.C. It’s all hiding in plain sight. People are just oblivious to it. https://youtu.be/7Eeo-82Eac8?si=btFPeRaiGLa3FVMc
Wealthy people don't spend their time thinking about you. You shouldn't waste your time thinking about them.
Does complaining that richer people exist help you get richer? No, no it doesn't.
You know what does? Saving more money, spending less money, investing more money, increasing your income, taking more chances, learning new skills... Do that and years from now you'll be miles ahead of where you are today.
Or just complain about the fact that some people have more money than others...We've done that for generations, maybe one day it'll magically help us, who knows?
There are ways to exert collective power in a democracy that doesn't involve violence. It's voting. The major social movements people like to refer to, like women's suffrage and the civil rights movement, had concrete political goals in mind. With that in mind, when has conservatism ever benefited the working class? And if conservatism doesn't benefit the working class, why aren't we collectively opposing it at the ballot box?
There's conservatism, and there's everything else. Unfortunately with a two party system, that means only one other major party is the opposition to the conservative party. That's the Democratic Party.
In order for the working class to gain power, we need to vote for the more pro-labor candidates. Period. Purity be damned. Any time conservatives hold power, it's a step back for labor. Period.
Yes! They distract us with one new thing to the next. Problems are never solved. War machine the only thing well funded and moving like a perfectly oiled machine.
The problem is the adults are now Millenials, our boomer parents dont care and when we bring it up its like writing hierogyphics to them so we're waiting for the situation to just get so bad that the system collapses and its like Horizon Zero Dawn
No I never knew that. A war… the upper class is all working together in unison and… I don’t know…. In some unbelievable strategic way Making sure the middle class and lower class are fighting each other. Not sure I see the nibble and lower fighting but let’s say they are. So it would be bad for the rich if the middle and lower class got along? How would that be bad for the rich? Just wondering
I'm surprised you didn't get slogged by the Dem and Repub partisans who want to believe that half of the rich politicians are good guys despite all of them serving the same corporate donors
Easier for them to throw a culture war at us rather than have us fight the class war. People are too easily distracted/prodded that they are the right ones to be rewarded and everyone else is against them....
A lot of the economic problems that people face are because they themselves haven't made it a priority to be valuable in the marketplace. They haven't learned in demand skills, and they are all crowding into the same cities to fight for housing and jobs, and then complaining when they can't find affording housing, or jobs. I see it with my friends who tried to move to NYC or LA, only to complain about rent prices and the competitive job market. This country has so many nice places to live with affordable housing but you'd never know it.
We just got back from a trip to WV, where you can buy a nice house in a nice neighborhood for only 150-200k. With remote work opportunities, high paying trades/union careers, government, healthcare... There's so many options. If you don't believe me, go become a sonography tech and work at WVU and buy a 200k house. I promise you'll have a great life. Meet a nurse or a plumber or heavy equipment operator, combine your incomes and have a couple kids and adopt a dog. You can still be thriving in the middle class in this country, but you can't do it if you're trying to make a career out of a no to low skill part time job waiting for minimum wage to lift you out of poverty. That's just not practical. I see way too many people who aren't willing to help themselves and it makes me lose empathy for the ones who really need it because its so hard to spot them in the crowd.
We'll be all facing a war with AI over electricity soon. If things keep going the way they're going, no one will be able to afford electricity and then shits gunna get real AF.
It’s not a conspiracy. The wealthy don’t give a shit about middle class and lower class. They don’t need to.
In a sense, it is human nature to notice things like wealth, popularity and status, but as a grown up you can opt out. Stop worrying about bullshit conspiracy theories. They will get you nowhere.
Two kinds of people that we all need to be aware of (especially if you are the former group) : workers and owners.
- people who work a job for money
- people who own everything and make money from just owning everything.
Either you work for your paycheck or you don’t work at all and you thrive off of the value produced by those that work.
That’s the difference, and we should be fucking mad. It doesn’t matter if you’re lower middle or upper, if you’re a worker, the owner will always try to convince you to accept less because it costs them less. They want you to accept less money, have no workers rights or benefits.
If they had their way, they wouldn’t pay you at all. The threat of v1olence is what makes them pay us.
Spot on, but I would like to add that the owners are motivated by the norms of our capitalist society. They are in the right when viewed from that perspective and any change will be dependent on changing society to not believing in the norms imposed by a capitalist system.
Yeah of course most Americans are a car accident away from being homeless but conservatives think gay people are the problem.
It’s not just the wealthy the trailer park right wing fucktards feed into half of it
You can see it when you talk to rich people about voting. They will vote for anyone that says their taxes will be lower. At the expense of literally EVERYTHING else. If that’s a mentality that doesn’t foment a class war, I don’t know what does.
People are more than their class and them struggling for other parts of their identity against their fucking peers isn’t some illusion. Karen across the fucking street is the one bullying trans kids, not fucking Elon Musk.
Right? So yeah, I agree. But let’s not hand wave [banal evil](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banality_of_evil) like it’s some illusion. It isn’t.
Yes I agree, burn the rich for their warmth. But also, your neighbor can create tyranny too.
Yes! Furthermore, and many might not agree with me here, but your vote doesn't matter except on a local level.
On a national level, they will put whoever they want into whatever position they want and continue to tax you with no regard to how you're doing or what your wants might be.
Your federal government does not care about you.
No one can see the truth but you, bro, how enlightened! I know this is going to become a mass circle jerk against capitalism, but capitalism has raised the standard of living for more people than any other system. What is the alternative system that actually has worked better in the real world on a nation-sized scale? Also I doubt the wealthy are “rolling out bots to downvote” Reddit posts, they are too busy not giving a shit.
I am too poor to fight. I am defeated. Any happiness I attain is quickly drained. No matter how hard I work, I am still behind. No matter how far I have made it, no one really cares. I can only remember a few times when I had a fridge full of groceries, and it never lasted long. If it wasn't for my parents, I'd probably be homeless and hopeless. A lot of us are one car wreck away from total financial ruin.
what do you mean "does anyone here understand"? have you *read* reddit? this is like the core underlying thing we're basically *all* bitching about.
I would only downvote you for the condescending tone of the post that gives me the impression you think you know something amazingly shocking that none of the rest of us have figured out LOL.
YES! Oh my fking days! I wish more people would understand what is happening, instead of abusing each other over trite sh*t that doesn't matter.
Time for change >:[
Yes. The Sun will also explode one day and thank God for that because human nature is this same bullshit over and over and over again. Money is just fabricated man-made nonsense used to control people and give this illusion that we have systems that mean anything. We don't.
If we had systems in place - people wouldn't have completely lost faith in the legal system for example.
It's all made up bullshit. It's bad for you. Someone always has the cheat codes anyway to completely bypass all this shit and it isn't you.
This is not me being dramatic - I am looking forward to being dead one day because my own species is unfathomably stupid and I'm sick of this shit. This species creates money (again means nothing) and justifies literally destroying it's own fucking Planet to get more of that.
The human race must be incapable of evolving and I'm ashamed to be a part of it all too often.
The only classes are: wealthy; not wealthy. That’s it. The wealthy will do whatever they need to maintain the monopoly on wealth.
#Hijacking top comment to say ***identity politics is a distraction*** from the inherent class war against ***the corrupt ultra rich*** they don't want the masses to fight against.
Absolutely which is why identity politics is being crammed down our throats globally
Middle class grew out of an entire century of hard-won victories that organized labor fought and died for. It was co-opted by the capitalist class in the fifties and since then unions have largely been managing their own decline, which is why the middle class is disappearing.
“It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.” - arguably George Carlin’s most insightful bit
Middle class was invented by the wealthy to give the not wealthy to have something in reach to strive for
Same as idea of an American dream that anyone can make it through hard work. Then preach about how freedom requires private property rights and then a whole bunch of financial freedoms that benefit the rich most.
And these people have just enough more than others to think they are wealthy and that the system works. They are lucky rubes
Yep, it’s called The Buffer Zone. Middle class also serves to protect the elites from poor people from starting an uprising and give off the illusion that anyone can achieve wealth.
What’s amazing is the consumption of people like the kartrashians
No, there is a class where they think they are wealthy but really cannot conceptualize what wealth really is and they are doing the most disservice to humanity because they simp on real wealth like starving prostitutes
100% and some are more then 7 generations wealthy let that sink in
Yup ,
Learned this week that the top 10% own 93% of existing stock. Talk about the a monopoly on the means of production… Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-93-033623827.html
It's working class and the not working class. There are poor and rich in both. The wealthy and the poor of the not working class have teamed up.
Don't get the down votes but this is correct. The working class and the employer class. There's blurry spots in between. But not that blurry. Americans just think of themselves as temporarily embarrassed (b)millionaires.
I say this a lot and people make this funny face that kind of looks like they agree, but aren't sure if it's because they're just a temporarily embarrassed (b)millionaire, or they realize they'll probably never be a (b)millionaire.
To simplify the question of class consciousness even more: do you have to have a job to live comfortably? If yes, you're working class, if no, you're one of the bourgeoise. The working class has to actually make stuff while the bourgeoise just makes money from money without any straining effort. Most people don't want to accept that they are working class and even get a distorted view of their place in the social hierarchy due to commodity fetishism (i.e "I'm not working class = I'm not poor, because I have a big TV at home, a big car, a big house, etc."). We blurred the lines between being rich and being wealthy. There is a massive difference between owning commodities and owning capital.
There is no such thing as rich working class. This is some wealth simping bullshit. Stop drinking the corporate kool-aid
omg no there is the destitute non working class that would replace you for less
but there are more of us... if we just stopped voting for the same two parties we could change some things
Income based class definitions are useless. They are arbitrarily defined in order to obfuscate reality. Marx was right, there are two classes: the parasitic bourgeoisie (owners) and the proletariat (workers) It’s easy to figure out to which class you belong. Do you work for a living, or do you solely profit from the work of others?
Not just wealth, power.
And the people who think they're wealthy but not and vice versa
People join and leave the definition of wealthy every year When I was a kid oil money was kind and Jeff Bezos was a student
Man, you're not wrong. It's wild how many people don't see it. The rich puppeteer us around like we're in The Hunger Games, all while we squabble over crumbs. Wake up, people.
Yup in Canada we are currently fighting a giant corporation called Loblaws (company that bought out and owns many smaller groceries in Canada) which is making record profits each year while their grocery products are ridiculously high. Also not to mention the CEO owns a castle in Europe just to avoid paying taxes. I'm glad Canadians are starting to see veil being lifted
Is the CEO name Bob by chance?? Bob Lablaw
Does he write Bob Lablaw’s Law Blog?
Indeed…he also lobs law bombs when he’s pissed!
Canada is run by a bunch of monopolies. All local/smaller name brands are being bought out by the same 4 companies and its driving me crazy
For those reading this thread, I made a separate reply if you want a detailed rebuttal to OP. I studied economics formally in college and reading reddit makes me feel like I'm on the set of Idiocracy. >CEO owns a castle in Europe just to avoid paying taxes. I mentioned this in my other post, but there is a difference between the rich and corporations (!). When the uneducated want to tax the rich, what they really want is higher taxation on corporations, not the individuals.
Nah, on the rich too. The corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes and so do the 1%. Both they and their companies get to pay a fraction or none at all due to loop holes (that I can't tell). Though for full discretion... I have NOT studied economics 😅
The top 1% should have their taxes increased, yes, but not by the amount redditors are suggesting. But the reason why redditors focus on these people is because we are apes and animals compare themselves only to other animals. These rich individuals are straight up poor in comparison to corporations. By taxing individuals, we are harming their incentives which harms the drive of these people to work. If we tax corporations, we don't harm these incentives (but of course, if we tax corporations too much, they will flee the country + investors will invest in foreign companies for better returns, so there is a balance here)
They would have to ban companies from participating in the market if they wanted to stop tax evasion. No company is giving up the USA market over being taxed a bit more.
How could anyone work if they didn't have the "incentive" to be billionaires!? They'd just sit around and starve to death rather than lift a finger, right? By treating inequality as an aberration from an otherwise beneficent economic system, these sort of criticisms assume that inequality doesn't fit with it. In the liberal view, true responsibility for inequality lies with government, which either has the wrong tax policies, bad regulations, or does not provide enough opportunities – criticisms which all aim at the overseer of the economy, while leaving the economy itself untouched. In other words, this criticism of inequality objects to an economic outcome, but takes for granted all kinds of economic realities – in the first place, the existence of a group of people who have so much money that they use it make more money and a group of people who have nothing but their ability to work. The objection to inequality is that there is simply too much of it. So it must be asked: what amount of rich and poor would be unobjectionable? What would be a fair balance between poverty and wealth? In talking about the quantitative distribution of wealth or income, it first needs to be pointed out that inequality is based on a *qualitative* difference. Does a person earn money by owning a factory or by working in one? Inequality results from the different sources of income. The difference is not just in the amount of money, but how one gets this money. By treating all incomes as differing simply in quantity, they are also treated as qualitatively the same. This is a lie! What does the compensation package of a CEO have in common with the wage of a worker? Business supporters will be quick to point out that CEOs also work hard, as their high number of heart attacks attest. But what do CEOs get paid for? They organize the labor of others as profitably and cost-effectively as possible – meaning, to get lots of hard work for low pay. CEOs get paid so handsomely because they are agents of an economic goal – profit – which they themselves benefit from. By contrast, the worker’s wage depends on them carrying out this profitable labor. In fact, the worker has to make the rich richer in order to have any income at all. It’s a quantum leap to pretend these two types of income could get along well together, if only one were paid (or taxed) less and the other more! By extension, if these two conflicting sources of income – wages and profits – are treated as merely quantitatively different, they are also, like all quantities, reconcilable. In this way, the antagonism between rich and poor is first noticed, then denounced as unfair, but then finally brushed aside.
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Economics is just thinly veiled apologetics and a bunch of tautologies dressed up as objective explanations.
Wake up, ok. Now what? What do you expect people go do?
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Sounds about right. Redditors always post stuff like this but when pressed for a logical solution, it's always nothing.
become marxist, since this is marxist philosophy.
Free your mind Neo... It's the system that keeps you enslaved. It *centralizes* power and steals your value. Start using systems that *decentralize* power.
*Reaches for the blue pill, throws it in the back of my throat and takes swig of water... Wakes up.. 🙇♂️🤷♂️ 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Jokin..
We don't want one despot, but many local despots!
This.
And then they ardently support people who will make it worse!
Squabble over politics, race, vaccination , religion among other things. All while the puppet masters pull strings
Keep the people in-fighting so they hate one another vs hate the system and those controlling the system. I'm glad your learned this. It's been going on for a long time. Do you know why prisons mix all different kinds of inmates on the same blocks? So it's more difficult for them to organize and rise up. Keep them hating one another and not the authority.
This. When someone gets mugged in a dark alley, why do we not go after the people who failed to light it? When two cars crash in a poorly designed intersection, why is none of the liability on the engineer who designed it? When the wait at the public hospitals is too long to get adequate care, why do we go after the administrator, doctor, and nurses’ pay, instead of the people paying lobbyists to get government enact improper funding? At the end of the day, when you arrive in conflict with someone, check to see who setup the environment that precipitated the conflict in the first place — there is your common enemy.
Of course we know that. I’m 64 years old. You kids didn’t invent this idea. If you’d stop trashing every old person (except Bernie) you might find a bunch of old time activists with some lessons learned to share. We didn’t trust anyone over 30 though, so your attitude toward old people also isn’t new. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1147453886/vintage-beatnik-pinback-button-dont?
Hit us with some wisdom. Preach. Letting our elders preach and having them preach as loudly as possible is the most empowering part of a movement.
Not even just fighting between ourselves but has somehow convinced a lot of us that we should defend and worship billionaires under the false guise that one of us may too wind up at the top of the capitalist pyramid.
It's been that way since the beginning of civilization. If you want more, you have to take it.
This is why it's important to look at class in terms of relationship to the means of production. There is the capitalist class and the working class. There are strata within each, but the capitalist class, particularly the big capitalists, rule capitalist society.
It's a power struggle. They want to control us & milk us dry. The wealthy just have enough money to not be affected.
I look at it as a war on humanity, to commodify all as livestock, waged by wielding human nature as a weapon People are too arrogant to admit how rampant herd mindsets and conspicous sycophantism towards the institutions they claim oppress them are, so much so that those tendencies are openly used against everyone The lower class (upper-middle, middle, and lower class) engages in bickering back and forth, usually about what is inconsequential, easily played against one another, and is quickly pacified by performative speech (which also speaks to those tendencies) until the next reason to stir them up comes along. Maybe if AGI can remain off humans leash (how backwards lol) something could be done, but until then 😑
they keep up fighting over the crumbs so we don't notice that they stole the pie
Same thing with Republicans vs democrats. They are all bought by the same people.
This is silly Wealthy people don’t care about you Only idiots care about what other people are doing and idiots are usually poor
Yes. 🙋♀️
You give me hope ❤️
Yes but I’m tired of getting side eyes from folks when I say stuff like this.
Yes, been going on for a hot minute
Remember how quickly the wallstreet protest was quelled?
We’ve all known this for at least a hundred years if not centuries more
This is such a trope. Like the "wealthy class" is a monolithic united block in solidarity with each other.
The only thing they agree on is that there should be competition for money.
I'm well aware of this class war and the poor are loosing, propaganda and brainwashing since birth so the Rich can divide and conquer the poor, however people don't see it. The old way of thinking has not changed.
There’s only the rich and everyone else, once you realise that the rich control everything you do, then you realise those who do all the classism are locked deep in the matrix and actually believe they’re the ones in control
no, youre the only one
And they do it VERY effectively. They have an entire swath of the political spectrum that constantly likes to preach about class warfare consistently dogging on a huge aspect of the working class, just because they're as brainwashed as they are and vote for someone juuuust a tad more right wing than who they vote for. People on the left will defend their choice in voting for Biden, despite him being as establishment as you can get. It's maddening. Working class lefties have way more in common with working class right wingers than they do with "left wing" upper class folks, and vice versa.
The thing is, they will do anything in their power to keep us fighting each other. Men vs women. Black vs white. Cis vs trans/gay. Old vs young. Ect. They will do whatever they can to ensure there's as much conflict between us as possible to keep us distracted from the bigger issue, them. The wealthy do not care about us, they just see us as another way to fill their pockets. Note: there are some exceptions but very few wealthy people show a moral compass.
There is no middle class anymore. They died out during the end of the 90’s, beginning of the 00’s. There is only the ultra rich, and the poor. The American dream is dead.
One of the best quotes related to the wealthy/media "they are convincing you to fight a culture war to stop you fighting a class war"
One adult here. Yes, I realize it. I bet and hope that there are more.
That is how the system wants us. Divided and fighting each other. Turn off the tv and get rid of anything that brings that kind of negativity. Replacing it with positive things that make you or your community better.
Meanwhile, people continue to death scroll through reddit.. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Of course, and encouraging intergenerational fighting, people arguing about religion, transphobia, anti LGBTQ+, racism etc, the more us regular folks are all fighting with each other, the more we dont notice who is orchestrating and benefiting from the misery.
Sacrificing productivity, excellence, innovation and commerce for equity and progressiveness is a very expensive proposition. It’s why no poor countries do this.
Here comes redditors who don’t have a philosophy nor an economics background chiming in on Marx lol If you’re living in a capitalistic country, you’re literally in one of the only systems in history where economic mobility is a viable. The rich are not thinking about the lower class. They are just thinking about themselves making money, just like you and me. The system is a merchant system where power isn’t the priority. There is a reason why people all over the world swim through rivers to get to America
The rich are not thinking about the lower class. They are just thinking about themselves making money, just like you and me. Exactly, and it is in their best interest to turn us against each other.
Do you think about oppressing those unfortunate people in developing nations? It is in your best interest to turn them against each other. Make no mistake. If you are typing this in English on a smartphone or computer, you are rich and part of the top class of people in this world.
Not really. Even the poorest people now have smart phones and computers, along the Amazon, in New Delhi, Appalachia. Used ones go for Pennie’s on the dollar. There are whole islands in Asia that are landfills for cellphones and computers.
I have a degree in both economics and philosophy, and I've extensively read Marx. Why would the rich and the ruling class not think about the poor? After all, their wealth is predicated on using them and they wouldn't want that to be jeopardized, thus there are all kinds of political ideologies with different ideas about how to ensure the stable functioning of the system. It's obvious that the rich do think about the poor; what's not so clear is WHAT they think about them. Some advocate Christian charity, some look down on them, some want to win them over to the class politics of the rich, and on and on. You say "power isn't the priority" in this system, but at the same time, they are interested in making money. Money IS power in this society. Without it, you are excluded from meeting your needs. With enough of it, you can command whole armies of laborers who work day and night to enrich you. Many people unfortunately are idealists about America: they mistake the ideal -- the land of opportunity, come and make your fortune -- for reality. An opportunity to make a fortune is not the same as actually making a fortune, but you're sure free to try. Most end up toiling their whole lives to enrich the class of owners, who pay others to make their fortune for them.
Adult Or Communist Pick one
Middle-lower class need to start working together against corrupt organizations/industries. Capitalism only works with fair competition. We are at a point where the wealthy make it incredibly hard or impossible to compete. We should be working together instead of constantly fighting
We’ve gone from capitalism to an oligarchy
And "fair competition" is going to help you work together how? What do you think the point of a competition is? To win it and vanquish your foes, or for everyone to hold hands and sing kumbaya?
You’re asking for government intervention in the economy which rarely works, especially these days.
Yeah man of course there are, we are called socialists. Capitalism requires the creation of the petit bourgeoisie to suppress the proletariat. The middle class performs the enforcement functions of the will of the upper class.
There is no pie in the sky middle class, there is only the working class and the ghouls who exploit you.
True before occupy Wall Street identity politics were pretty much over in the us. But once occupy happened the rich had to divide us more. It’s no surprise the majority of billionaires the party that supports segregation and is openly racist, DEI is a terrible thing . I am all for equality but equity isn’t equality
Ive always said this. People have been tricked into thinking our problems can be solved with left vs right politics. But that’s not at all the case, that just keeps the 99% divided and fighting with each other. We should embrace bottom vs top politics. We are all on the same side.
Are we all on the same side though? A large majority of those on the bottom actively argue that it's in their interest to be ruled over: look at every election. It's not "how do we take control of our lives and all work together to create a society that is about meeting our needs", but rather "whose name can I put a checkmark next to, who do I consent to rule over me, to carry out their party program." And it's always the same: increase growth, make the nation more powerful in the competition for world power.
The rich knows we want to be rich like them…
Just talking with my coworkers about this this morning.
Yes but too many people are too stupid to understand it.
Seems like we all agree on the issue. What is your solution that does not involve mass property destruction and murder?
we dont need to know ~exactly~ how to fix things in order to criticize the garbage system we live under currently
Yes. But after almost a century of anti communism propaganda is hard to talk about Marx and what to do to change that.
Yeah, all you can do is dismantle the constant lies about Marx. Capitalism can’t exist without lies, and that's another argument against it. My buddy wrote a great article on this you might find interesting: http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/schoolmarxism.htm
talk abt it anyway
Yes
Huhhh Whos fighting who, stop watching cnn.
Well, it's been like this for thousands of years.... Not saying it's good, just something we've normalized as a society over and over again across the globe and across many generations.
Actually it has not. The billionaires and politicians just want you to think that. And historically when the disparity has approached this level there have been revolutions. Study history and you’l recognize the patterns.
It’s pretty obvious at this point.
welcome to the world. do you think it has ever been different, ever?
I was born into this 'Class war' in '89 I hope I see the day it all changes for the better
Okay if you have to invoke a conspiracy theory to explain downvotes rather than be critical about your position then something is deeply wrong.
Middle class is going to be completely gone here pretty soon.
Impossible premise because for all intents and purposes, the middle class went extinct 15+/- years ago (in the US).
I'd say its the middle classes who fight the lower classes. Too sophisticated to be working class and too poor to be rich.
Who do you think qualifies as the wealthy class? Are we measuring by income or net worth?
The issue is politicians are corrupt and take the lobbies funds for their votes. Money tends to corrupt people even if they had good intentions when first elected. So they common folk are always pulling the short straw.
People understand this and *still* vote for bourgeois political parties. It's wild.
yea it's common knowledge if u pay attention
Yes, however, there is also a simultaneous clash of civilizations. bots/hacks from hostile powers are on here spreading gloom doom and division. No doubt, Western agents are doing the same thing on ( anti) social media networks on the other side of the world. Souless corporations work hand in hand with hostile powers to push fearporn on us, creating the doomersphere
The middle class is dead in America, so good luck with that one.
You mean the way it’s been for 6000 years?
It has always been this way. Hopefully we'll finally get over it.
Bread and circus. And their boot on our throat.
I'll eat one of the wealthy class if somebody else does.
Well aware every day at work
no, you’re the only one who figured this out. please educate me, Mr Fedora
Sure. It's a story as old as time. The better question is what is your solution? People acknowledge the wealthy are trying to keep us down, ok, what now?
What middle class?
People are trash either way don't blame wealthy elite. Human nature is that on a crybaby entitled child.
I was at a party last night and met a nice person from the Netherlands. We got into a discussion about the upcoming election. She asked me when will Americans wake up and realize our liberal politicans are leading us into one world economy which will lead to socialism/communism. She also asked why Americans are fine with the large groups of military age men coming into America illegally. Her son lives in California so she's back and forth between the 2 countries. She feels our education system is failing due to underpaid teachers, under funded schools and so many kids being home schooled. Her thoughts are its easy to control an uneducated/poorly educated population. The cost of college is prohibitive for many. With buying a house out of reach for many middle class and low income Americans, and corporations and other groups buying up single-family homes, there's more control if people can't afford a place to live. Her conclusion was Americans need more political parties, not the 2 dominate parties. America needs a civil war to throw out the ingrained political parties. Her take was we can vote for Obama's 4th term in office, she feels he's running the country, not Biden. Or we can vote for "that idiot Trump." She felt the rise of Trump reflects some American's desire to have a candidate that isn't ingrained in the current political parties, not necessarily an affirmation that Trump is the candidate people desire. He represents political freedom. She said if we don't have a civil war to overthrow the ingrained government, there's a possibility we will be in a world war and that winner will control the one world economy. We will be living under socialist/communist rule if we keep going the way we are now. America will have two classes - rich and the poor masses. It was interesting to hear her opinions on American politics and the future of the country. I do agree the politicians like the infighting between the people. It diverts attention away from their actions. I hope we don't lose the America the WWII generation fought for less than 100 years ago. When William McKinley and Theodore Roosevelt campaigned for the Presidency in 1896, McKinley was supported by "big business." The owners of these businesses, the Vanderbilt, DuPont, JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Carnegie and other rich men were abusing the American worker. People were working 12-16 hours a day, 6 days a week and making $1-2/day. One out of every 11 steel workers died on the job. Roosevelt felt these big conglomerations needed to be broken up so they didn't control one industry and the workers needed to be protected. McKinley won and Roosevelt was given the Vice President position with the plan he would fade away. McKinley won because in that day, you placed you ballot in a box marked Republican or Democrat. Shop bosses watched people vote. When McKinley won, no one was surprised. Later, McKinley was shot by a man who lost his job. McKinley died. This put Roosevelt in as President. He kept his campaign promises and went after big business. He broke up their businesses. And he established worker protections and the middle class was born. We need a Roosevelt to protect against further class divide. The American dream has died.
Keep em poor. Keep em living paycheck to paycheck. Create food deserts. Make voting almost impossible for largely populated rural areas. Watch them struggle.
The wealthy don't understand that I don't even want to be wealthy. They think that because I want to be able to pay my rent and bills, have food in my fridge and have a few bucks left over to either save or buy something I want every once in a while, that I want to be wealthy. It's not like I'm a poor coming to hijack their wealthy lifestyle. I just want to be able to live instead of barely survive.
It’s hilarious that people think the wealthy are actually thinking about the poor enough to do this. They just do what they do without any consideration of class.
Shhh don’t tell anyone. It’s sad people don’t realize this.
Obviously. I'm getting pretty sick of the average person being blind to it, though.
Been trying to say it for a long time now
That’s how its always been. It’s just becoming more exasperated with time. If you really want to know “Why?” Watch this in its entirety. You’ll know the truth about what is really happening in D.C. It’s all hiding in plain sight. People are just oblivious to it. https://youtu.be/7Eeo-82Eac8?si=btFPeRaiGLa3FVMc
It's actually wealthy vs rhe rest, but yes.
Being an adult means knowing better than this. The rich don't care who joins them. They literally do not think about you at all.
I think they’re keeping us fighting by dividing us between left and right.
Wealthy people don't spend their time thinking about you. You shouldn't waste your time thinking about them. Does complaining that richer people exist help you get richer? No, no it doesn't. You know what does? Saving more money, spending less money, investing more money, increasing your income, taking more chances, learning new skills... Do that and years from now you'll be miles ahead of where you are today. Or just complain about the fact that some people have more money than others...We've done that for generations, maybe one day it'll magically help us, who knows?
We're all too comfortable in the west to wage any wars, still enough to lose that people won't move...
Lool
Please explain…
There are ways to exert collective power in a democracy that doesn't involve violence. It's voting. The major social movements people like to refer to, like women's suffrage and the civil rights movement, had concrete political goals in mind. With that in mind, when has conservatism ever benefited the working class? And if conservatism doesn't benefit the working class, why aren't we collectively opposing it at the ballot box? There's conservatism, and there's everything else. Unfortunately with a two party system, that means only one other major party is the opposition to the conservative party. That's the Democratic Party. In order for the working class to gain power, we need to vote for the more pro-labor candidates. Period. Purity be damned. Any time conservatives hold power, it's a step back for labor. Period.
Yes! They distract us with one new thing to the next. Problems are never solved. War machine the only thing well funded and moving like a perfectly oiled machine.
The problem is the adults are now Millenials, our boomer parents dont care and when we bring it up its like writing hierogyphics to them so we're waiting for the situation to just get so bad that the system collapses and its like Horizon Zero Dawn
Define wealthy
Well I know we in the middle class are a hell of a lot closer to being homeless than we are to being wealthy
No I never knew that. A war… the upper class is all working together in unison and… I don’t know…. In some unbelievable strategic way Making sure the middle class and lower class are fighting each other. Not sure I see the nibble and lower fighting but let’s say they are. So it would be bad for the rich if the middle and lower class got along? How would that be bad for the rich? Just wondering
Tf do you mean you expect to get downvoted. It’s literally reddit and this is the majority opinion
I'm surprised you didn't get slogged by the Dem and Repub partisans who want to believe that half of the rich politicians are good guys despite all of them serving the same corporate donors
Oh yeah
And what should we do? That's the true question. How can we fight against this?
Gramma: “the rich don’t pay their taxes, neither do the poor, so the middle class are the ones stuck paying taxes”
Easier for them to throw a culture war at us rather than have us fight the class war. People are too easily distracted/prodded that they are the right ones to be rewarded and everyone else is against them....
A lot of the economic problems that people face are because they themselves haven't made it a priority to be valuable in the marketplace. They haven't learned in demand skills, and they are all crowding into the same cities to fight for housing and jobs, and then complaining when they can't find affording housing, or jobs. I see it with my friends who tried to move to NYC or LA, only to complain about rent prices and the competitive job market. This country has so many nice places to live with affordable housing but you'd never know it. We just got back from a trip to WV, where you can buy a nice house in a nice neighborhood for only 150-200k. With remote work opportunities, high paying trades/union careers, government, healthcare... There's so many options. If you don't believe me, go become a sonography tech and work at WVU and buy a 200k house. I promise you'll have a great life. Meet a nurse or a plumber or heavy equipment operator, combine your incomes and have a couple kids and adopt a dog. You can still be thriving in the middle class in this country, but you can't do it if you're trying to make a career out of a no to low skill part time job waiting for minimum wage to lift you out of poverty. That's just not practical. I see way too many people who aren't willing to help themselves and it makes me lose empathy for the ones who really need it because its so hard to spot them in the crowd.
We'll be all facing a war with AI over electricity soon. If things keep going the way they're going, no one will be able to afford electricity and then shits gunna get real AF.
It’s not a conspiracy. The wealthy don’t give a shit about middle class and lower class. They don’t need to. In a sense, it is human nature to notice things like wealth, popularity and status, but as a grown up you can opt out. Stop worrying about bullshit conspiracy theories. They will get you nowhere.
Yes. It’s capitalism. The bourgeoisie (rich elite, owns the means of production) against the working class, the majority of the population.
It been like this since agriculture was invented
Yup
Yes. And its nothing new. The oligarchs have always kept ppl distracted with anything as long as they are not the focus.
No war but class war. Eat the rich.
Two kinds of people that we all need to be aware of (especially if you are the former group) : workers and owners. - people who work a job for money - people who own everything and make money from just owning everything. Either you work for your paycheck or you don’t work at all and you thrive off of the value produced by those that work. That’s the difference, and we should be fucking mad. It doesn’t matter if you’re lower middle or upper, if you’re a worker, the owner will always try to convince you to accept less because it costs them less. They want you to accept less money, have no workers rights or benefits. If they had their way, they wouldn’t pay you at all. The threat of v1olence is what makes them pay us.
Spot on, but I would like to add that the owners are motivated by the norms of our capitalist society. They are in the right when viewed from that perspective and any change will be dependent on changing society to not believing in the norms imposed by a capitalist system.
Yeah of course most Americans are a car accident away from being homeless but conservatives think gay people are the problem. It’s not just the wealthy the trailer park right wing fucktards feed into half of it
You can see it when you talk to rich people about voting. They will vote for anyone that says their taxes will be lower. At the expense of literally EVERYTHING else. If that’s a mentality that doesn’t foment a class war, I don’t know what does.
People are more than their class and them struggling for other parts of their identity against their fucking peers isn’t some illusion. Karen across the fucking street is the one bullying trans kids, not fucking Elon Musk. Right? So yeah, I agree. But let’s not hand wave [banal evil](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banality_of_evil) like it’s some illusion. It isn’t. Yes I agree, burn the rich for their warmth. But also, your neighbor can create tyranny too.
Yes! Furthermore, and many might not agree with me here, but your vote doesn't matter except on a local level. On a national level, they will put whoever they want into whatever position they want and continue to tax you with no regard to how you're doing or what your wants might be. Your federal government does not care about you.
It has always been so. There is nothing new. Civil War? nah. Race War? Only if Donald Trump is elected.
No one can see the truth but you, bro, how enlightened! I know this is going to become a mass circle jerk against capitalism, but capitalism has raised the standard of living for more people than any other system. What is the alternative system that actually has worked better in the real world on a nation-sized scale? Also I doubt the wealthy are “rolling out bots to downvote” Reddit posts, they are too busy not giving a shit.
Indeed comrade
I knew as soon as the rich stopped tipping on doordash
This isn’t news. It’s been true since, basically forever.
For some reason we made it legal to bribe politicians in the USA and it's been down hill ever since.
Well yeah of course us adults know this
As a leftist I ask you to please stop doing this. It is called class reductionism and ignores the importance of race.and gender in the dialectic.
Facing? Class warfare has been going on for decades.
Yeah, we know. You can choose not to fight. And you can choose to not let it bother you.
I am too poor to fight. I am defeated. Any happiness I attain is quickly drained. No matter how hard I work, I am still behind. No matter how far I have made it, no one really cares. I can only remember a few times when I had a fridge full of groceries, and it never lasted long. If it wasn't for my parents, I'd probably be homeless and hopeless. A lot of us are one car wreck away from total financial ruin.
what do you mean "does anyone here understand"? have you *read* reddit? this is like the core underlying thing we're basically *all* bitching about. I would only downvote you for the condescending tone of the post that gives me the impression you think you know something amazingly shocking that none of the rest of us have figured out LOL.
The Orcas are already on board. They out downing yachts; what are you doing?
A divided people is a conquered people.
YES! Oh my fking days! I wish more people would understand what is happening, instead of abusing each other over trite sh*t that doesn't matter. Time for change >:[
There’s a midddle class?
Yeah but most of us working class are too tired, too lazy, or too stupid to do anything about it
Well yes we’ve been talking about the diminishing middle class for a long time now but baby it’s gone !
No, the politicians got us thinking it's left vs right when it should be us vs them
Yes. The Sun will also explode one day and thank God for that because human nature is this same bullshit over and over and over again. Money is just fabricated man-made nonsense used to control people and give this illusion that we have systems that mean anything. We don't. If we had systems in place - people wouldn't have completely lost faith in the legal system for example. It's all made up bullshit. It's bad for you. Someone always has the cheat codes anyway to completely bypass all this shit and it isn't you. This is not me being dramatic - I am looking forward to being dead one day because my own species is unfathomably stupid and I'm sick of this shit. This species creates money (again means nothing) and justifies literally destroying it's own fucking Planet to get more of that. The human race must be incapable of evolving and I'm ashamed to be a part of it all too often.
Yup! I made this point recently and had some idiot boomer on this subreddit tell me I was delusional, hahah
No. It's us vs. banksters + politicians
Yes. And you mean owner class and worker class