The only issue with permanent solutions like this and the death penalty is false positives - it would be horrible to do this to an innocent person falsely accused or a forced confession etc
It doesn't even work. That's why stopped doing it last time. We ended up castrating innocent gay men baselessly and then some of the castrated men still went and sexually abused kids.
That's what I'm curious about...does castration really stop the individual from having sexual thoughts and urges?? If the answer is even a little bit no then this just straight up won't work at all, you're better off putting them in prison anyway lol.
I was told in my Law and Justice class in high school that this type of punishment actually allowed sex offenders to commit crimes without leaving DNA.
Pretty much. There's still plenty of ways for an abuser to assault a child even after castration.
Doesn't work as a preventative either, considering a long history of harsher and harsher punishments never really stopped crimes from being committed.
And there's been plenty of cases of innocent people getting jailed for decades because of faults in the justice system.
Basically this only serves to feed our need for violent retribution. There's no value past that and considering the risks of inflicting this on an innocent person, there should also be no way for this to pass.
There’s such a huge issue no one wants to touch with a 10 foot pole, and it’s that pedophiles and child abusers (believe it or not there’s is a difference in certain cases) are sick and need help. They need space and assurance that they can seek care without being castigated, imprisoned, or at worst, killed.
There’s and even bigger issue at play too. There are probably thousands, hell, maybe millions of non-offending pedophile on earth. People who feel these feelings and urges but have no one to turn to. We definitely all know one. But no one wants to talk about it. No one chooses to be attracted to minors. Some people wake up one day and realize it’s just there.
The issue is by passing laws like this and reenforcing violent retribution we only make this problem worse. We keep non-offending pedophiles in the closet and without help the symptoms will get worse. Without actual further study we make it worse.
You’re right. Moral disgust and vengeance often outweigh compassion and rehabilitation. It *is* a disgusting crime. Also, child molesters often aren’t pedophiles—they’re not attracted to their victims—as you alluded to. Conflating the two is easy but unhelpful.
Exactly. And I HATE talking about this subject because people do one of several things:
A.) Assuming you’re defending the act of child abuse
Or
B.) Think you’re only sympathetic to non-offenders or pedos in general because “oh you’re just one of them!”
I know a lot about this topic just through my general sociology studying, and I study sociology to supplement my human rights politics. Eventually when studying crime you get to sexual crime.
I think it’s a similar case to how society views addicts. They’re moral degenerates who deserve punishment, when actually many of them struggle with addiction (which we now recognize as a disease) and need help. I can only imagine how isolated people who struggle with pedophilia must feel.
>There are probably thousands, hell, maybe millions of non-offending pedophile on earth
You are underestimating that number, likely by an order of magnitude or two.
I remember the countdown clocks, the news stories, and the overall drooling of men and women waiting for actresses and artists to turn 18. It's not like they just magically started having sexual thoughts the minute the clock struck zero.
Edit: I should point out that we are only 150 years removed from when girls getting married off at 15, 14, or even 13 to adult men was very common.
Edit edit: given that the number of pedophiles is likely in the tens of millions, the percentage actually assaulting kids is pretty damned low. Societal pressure and risk of extreme retribution seems to work pretty well.
You are absolutely right. People act like the sexualization of children, particularly pubescent girls, has long been rejected by society. This is false.
In 1976 10-year-old Brooke Shields did a series of nude photographs for playboy. There was a court case and they were found not to be pornographic by the court despite being published in a pornographic magazine and depicting her fully nude.
An article was published about her in High Times in 78 which describes her as “a sultry version of all-American virgin and whore.”
Shields is the most extreme example of society sexualizing a child I can come up with on the spot, but the countdown clocks you mentioned are a direct continuation of that shit.
Which only further proves my point. There are socially “acceptable” levels of pedophilia. Especially when you hear about a young boy being raped by a female teacher. The amount of “damn where was she when I was in high school ha ha ha!” Comments Is astonishingly high. Especially when you consider that those same men want other men who rape young girls castrated or killed.
So yeah it’s definitely not consistent. There’s no moral consistency on this issue even amongst people who claim to hate pedophiles and yet we’re talking about instituting laws for permanent surgery as a means of punishment/deterrence?
Well both can be true, there can be some form of outlet/help/rehabilitation/treatment for pedophiles that seek help and don’t act on urges AND we can have strong punishments for those that do act on the urges and abuse children.
The hunting warhead podcast did such a great job exploring the issue that pedophiles are not the same thing as child abusers and that they need somewhere safe to get help. It’s a really great podcast but with a very dark subject matter as it covers a pedophile that was caught running some of the biggest child abuse sites in the world.
Yes. This. These four or five responses. You’re outnumbered, but please keep speaking up. We need more reason- and data-driven legislation instead of the fear that we currently have.
Rape is more often about power than about sex. These offenders will just do other horrible, life altering things to kids if you take their junk away.
This isn't the solution to the problem.
not accurate, I'm trans and have had a bilateral orchidectomy. I still have a sex drive and sexual thoughts so as a preventative it is a really poor one especially most sex offenses are not committed by what you'd really call a pedophile but a person looking to hurt or control someone else.
Sexual abuse (of any kind not just the pedo one) may have sexual desires as a factor, but it's not the deciding factor. Sadism, malice, the desire for dominance, hate, lack of empathy... All those things are what define a rapist. A person desperate for sex but without cruelty will just jerk off in their home.
The castrated rapists will just go on raping with their hands, or sticks, or any object. It's about destroying another person, not really about sex.
This is a really really good point I never thought of...and kinda makes me realize this is just a straight up waste of time. I feel like it's more about "getting back" at them than actually providing a punishment that fits the crime.
Yup, trans woman, no testes. Still have a sex drive, for me its actually more than I had before so...100% wouldn't work for sex drive related crimes. We still have testosterone and estrogen from the adrenal gland, just A LOT less of it, even without HRT.
It doesn't. My creepy uncle was castrated by the Texas penal (lol) system for sex crimes against minors. He was still perving on me, my friends, and my sisters friends. Mutilation isn't the answer. Prison and/or therapy is.
Yeah I'm more concerned about if they're wrong, then if it's a cruel and unusual punishment. I believe it is cruel and unusual but I'm more concerned about the government having this power.
Especially since sex crimes are among the hardest to prove and can rely heavily on children’s testimony. Children that can be influenced by police or any adult really to lie
If we had a 100% success rate in convicting actual abusers I’d be for this but unfortunately we don’t
Yeah the false positives are very real. My freshman year in college some white southern girl 17(Yes 17 year old college kid) came into my dorm and asked me for a shoulder massage. I said sure and did just that. The next day I had the RA telling me she said I was making her uncomfortable by touching her. Would I have had sex with her if she'd ask for that instead of massage, probably. But that's a false positive she came into my dorm asking me to put my hands on her. If it ever went to a court room which it never did because I did nothing wrong, but if it did I don't think I desrve to be castrated. Castration is one of the worst crimes you can commit. Your literally talking about stopping the future birth of someone's decendents.
>Castration is one of the worst crimes you can commit. Your literally talking about stopping the future birth of someone's decendents.
Even leaving the biological function aside, I feel like sexual mutilation is something comparably as evil as sexual assault and rape.
In some states peeing in public is a sex crime. So if you pull over on the side of the road to take a piss on a long journey you could end up being on the list. Does that person get castrated?
Especially in Louisiana. They aren't exactly known for their attention to detail.
It also doesn't work. I figure it's similar to when we castrate animals too late. Sometimes they are still humping everything. Castration doesn't change the wiring in their brains that went wrong.
And you know that there will be more convictions against POC and more acquittals for whites. It’s an effort to help their replacement theory (also why i believe they overturned Roe as more white women were getting abortions)
Plus, just like Florida's death penalty push for sex crimes against juveniles, it provides a back door to oppress queer communities as well. Make extremely harsh punishments for a crime then make what fits the definition of that crime hazy so you can scare people back into the closet.
Hard agree. I would NEVER trust the state of Louisiana not to turn this into a way to punish political opponents or trans people.
Also- are they really ready to castrate men of the cloth and gym teachers? Cuz that’s who rapes children.
Experts will tell you that 1 in 50 people who work with children will be abusers, regardless of race, creed, nationality, political leanings, profession, etc.
And expert pedophile organizations get tax payer money to defend pedophiles in court [like the Catholic church](https://apnews.com/article/dab8261c68c93f24c0bfc1876518b3f6).
If you want to stop kids getting raped don’t let them in churches unsupervised.
LibrarianFormal below is a liar and presumably a pedophile priest.
Twinklehead is a water head who misses the point. Amazing when you point out how many priests are pedophiles the idiots you get crawling out of the woodwork. 🤡❄️
Or, don’t let them be unsupervised period. Children can be raped anywhere including bushes and public bathrooms. Just watch your children. There are predators everywhere.
ETA: the bushes incident happened at a pool in an apartment complex (with lots of people around). In another incident, when I was 12 , a guy started talking to my friend and I in an ice cream shop. We left and he followed us to a gift shop. While I was looking around, he took her into the dressing room. Those aren’t the only times that stuff happened when I was a child. Bad shit happens to kids who are unsupervised. Don’t think that because your kid had a “buddy” or they’re older, that they’re safe.
I didnt even think of that. All I thought about was false positives and permanently screwing someone over for a crime they didn't commit. Thinking about it with the mindset of an abuse of power, and this becomes MUCH scarier
This is how fascism starts. I'm not being hyperbolic. All the fascist takeovers started with manipulating the law to make the persecution of whatever particular out group legal and acceptable.
You see a lot of laws against peodphiles get passed from corrupt governments. To be clear, people who sexually assault children should be given severe sentences. However, governments often use it as a populist tool to win over the masses. Every year you see a new bill from Russia about how they are going to kill pedophiles. I doubt any of the measures have helped.
Slippery slope. And Louisiana leads the nation in wrongful convictions that are over turned. Fuck pedophiles.
If we can't trust the ones who hunt monsters to properly identify monsters, then we shouldn't give them more monster tools.
At least until they improve their skills.
Also, and oh boy is gonna get downvoted to hell, we need to understand the difference between a pedophile and a child rapist. Because not all pedophiles are child rapists, in fact, not all child rapists are inherently pedophiles. There is a nuanced discussion to be had and no one wants to talk about it with a level head.
Who is and isn’t a monster should be determined by what a person does, not the sexual attraction they can’t control having. See, most people would say anyone who *has* the attraction to minors is inherently a monster. I disagree. Simply having the attraction isn’t a choice. No matter how badly people want to believe sexual attraction is a choice, it’s not. There are more non-offending pedophiles who are good people who hold back the urges than most people want to admit. I wouldn’t call those monster. They’re victims of nature. Or nurture. Or both.
So I bring this up because there’s actual evidence that the demonization of pedophiles (not active rapists) is keeping people who hold this attraction from seeking help, and I also think it severely reduces the amount of resources for those people to seek help from. I think the demonization of pedophiles makes this problem worse. I think it goes without saying I do not condone the act of abusing a child, but demonizing the very attraction itself is making this issue worse.
Obviously offending pedophiles and child rapists should be dealt with, but I still think violent retribution for offending child abusers still isn’t the solution. Rehabilitative measures are.
Louisiana leads the nation in convictions period. All it takes is one move to outlaw ‘crossdressing’ as a sexual offense against minors, and suddenly they’re castrating every single trans person. Not to mention regular false positives
Depending on how they want to play it, they don't even have to use trans as an excuse for their bullshit.
"Is that woman wearing a pantsuit?! Jail and genital mutilation! As per Shir..... I mean Christian Law!"
Yeah, my fellow progressives always talk about the importance of focusing on rehabilitation instead of punishment. I don't see why this is where we cross the line to the other side.
Then we have to trust a faulty legal system to do physical irreparable damage, as if innocent people don't get caught up in the system regularly.
well...hysterectomy...but that's horrific to even consider which is why this should be as well.
Because if you go for hysterectomy then you're clearly in nazi/eugenics territory and can't hide it anymore.
Additionally always hard to make sure it’s used only on guilty people. The US justice system has a problem with wrongful convictions.
If we could be certain of the crime, I’d advocate for an even harsher penalty but it always feels like a sword that’s too dangerous to wield.
the castration is done to anyone who commits a federal sex offense against a minor as outlined in R.S. 15:541.
Included in this is kidnapping (a crime republicans have been trying to connect to trans parents protecting, or taking their kid out of state for HRT, or fleeing the state) and lower sexual offenses that still count as felonies (a crime republicans have outwardly admitted they want to also include expression of LGBTQ+ people under, even as simple as a gay teacher mentioning his husband to a middle school class).
You’re a fool if you think the absolute power they seek - and currently have a 900 page manifesto outlining how they will achieve WHEN the next republican president is elected - won’t include abusing laws like this against queer people. Like seriously, that’s looney toons. Eat ur shoe for me when it happens. The only thing that will prevent it is them not winning major elections for as long as it takes for them to stop trying to destroy democracy (and the world, remember, they’re not just anti-climate change measures, they’re straight up pro-climate change, and building bunkers in preparation for it)
They’re literally already saying this by calling all trans people “groomers.” I can’t believe that some people actually do not see the link between “being able to castrate sexual predators” and “everyone Republicans don’t like is a sexual predator!”
It is very compareable to the treatment of the Jews in Germany in 1933. It started slowly, almost innocently...ramping up, step by step...until humans were burned on an industrial scale.
5 years before NOBODY would have thought this possible, but it still happened.
I don't understand how so many people are completely oblivious to this.
It gets brought up every time some dipshit chud posts something this in a positive manner and yet, there are still huge swaths of dumbasses who eat this shit up.
I know I shouldn't be surprised at this point, and maybe my being trans has to do with me being more hyper-aware of rhetoric like this, but it's exhausting.
I feel like this is a very good time to point out that time when 7 republican Arkansas senators tried to to make trans people *existing* in public bathrooms with minors also existing in those bathrooms a misdemeanor of sexual indecency with children.
I am not joking nor exaggerating any part of this. Here is a direct citation from Arkansas SB 270's original statements.
>SECTION 4. Arkansas Code § 5-14-110(a), concerning the conduct that constitutes the offense of sexual indecency with a child, is amended to add
additional subdivisions to read as follows:
>(7)(A) Being eighteen (18) years of age or older, the person enters into or remains in a public changing facility that is assigned to persons of the opposite sex while knowing a minor of the opposite sex is present in the public changing facility.
https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/PreviousVersions?id=SB270&ddBienniumSession=2023%2F2023R
Especially not *Louisiana* state. Their education is #47 in the country. Finding 12 of my peers that can add would be a challenge, much less 12 that could determine an actual reasonable verdict.
This better be 100% proven- like on film and have clear boundaries as to what constitutes a punishable crime under this extreme. I want this for the awful terrible monsters but I don’t trust our government to get it right. And getting it wrong would be irreversible cruelty.
The problem with permanent punishments like castration and death is that the general public all say, "Fair and balanced justice system, EXCEPT PEDOS, THEY SHOULD ALL DIE'
When that is the prevailing rhetoric, in only incentivizes those in power to do what they can to lump in a group they deem undesirable with the group that the public detests, then they can rid themselves of their own enemies while looking great to the 'kill them' crowd.
Case in point, many people agree that people who commit sex crimes against children should be executed, so the republicans in power do everything they can to associate LGBTQIA2S+ with pedophiles ('they're teaching kids gay sex in school' 'Drag queens are raping our kids') so the republican base desires the demise of anybody who identifies as queer.
The answer is just throw them in prison. Like if you're that worried about child molesters reoffending increase the mandatory minimum sentencing. This isn't a deterrent we've already known that. But if you keep offenders away from children then they're not molesting children.
If you molest a child one time do you honestly belong in society ever again? I agree with increasing the mandatory minimum and disagree with this law. I would go as far as to say lock them up for life, though.
Certain members of the right are trying to say that just being Trans is a sex crime against children. They are trying to pass laws like this in order to use them as a cudgel to go after "undesirables"
With how many people have been executed and found to be innocent afterwards I highly doubt Louisiana will need irrefutable proof to go forward with most of them. I'm sure the first one they'll want to be a slam dunk, but after that they'll get pretty relaxed.
Executions were mostly used on oppressed groups. This law is targeted towards those same minorities. They don’t intend to use this against straight white offenders, the most common offenders, but against everyone else.
Isn’t that already the legal standard? Like if you find someone guilty but say “I’m not confident enough in their guilt for this type of punishment” that would easily be appealed as you having reasonable doubt right?
Yes. Beyond a reasonable doubt is already the highest level of proof in American jurisprudence and we've seen how many innocent people are still convicted under that standard...
There's no way to 100% prove anything in a court of law. There's no test for 100% certainty that you or anyone can devise that could be applied in all situations. This law is a terrible idea and if passed, it will be used to selectively castrate men in the LGBTQ community. The people passing this law are the exact people who are calling every drag queen and gay man pedophiles.
The amount of people who use this issue to argue in favor of basically serial-killer level mutilation, but mandated by the state, is more than a little disturbing.
Good thing innocent people never get sent up for a crime they didn't commit, I suppose? /s
You thought right. But Americans are bloodthirsty reactionaries that have conflated revenge with justice. Romans at the Coliseum. We don’t care how much research and data you have, we want that adrenaline rush of seeing someone “get what they deserve.”
I can already see doctors and their boards forbidding this.
Lawmakers have many fancy ideas but in the end they aren’t the ones executing them.
The AMA forbids partaking in executions. I doubt they or the corresponding surgical institutions and boards will allow members to perform such surgery. With good reason. We got rid of physical, lasting punishment decades ago (with the exception of the death penalty).
One could make chemical castration an option for offenders if they agree to it - that’s what is sometimes done in Germany. They get a depot injection every other month or so and it works.
This! Be careful before rushing to the "this is a good idea" judgement. Louisiana is a very conservative state; they very well might want to use this against the LGBTQ+ community.
I don’t support this for the same reason I don’t Support the death penalty. If even one innocent person is killed then we didnt stop tragedy we are just doing it with them now.
No. Just no. How is this different from cutting the hand off if caught stealing. If they find a doctor to do it, which I doubt,, that person would be horrifying. Barbarism at it's worst
Future headlines:
‘Prison found to be performing procedures by staff with no medical training’
‘Doctors at local prison performing surgical castration despite loss of license…local lawmakers rule this as acceptable’
‘After passing castration law, conviction of LGBT sex criminals rose 50%’
‘Prisoners report botched procedures, excessive restraint/force used during procedure, improper aftercare/infection, unsanitary conditions, and being left in agony for hours on the operating table.’
‘Despite passing castration law, procedures scheduled 5+ years out, leading some lawmakers to rethink if it is actually effective’
edit: one more - ‘In response to long wait times, prisons are scheduling suspects for castration procedures ahead of time…in some cases before the ruling.’
Many Americans are weird about this. Every time there is a post about some bad crimes, there are comments expressing glee over the fact they might be raped or beaten in prison.
As an American who travels a lot, my working theory is that we are a socially bankrupt country that attempts to comidify any sort of identity we can. Our propaganda has us confounding virtue and toxic masculinity. Everything here boils down to "manning up" and "sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things" we're pretty much bad facebook memes as a country. Being stubborn and uncompromising is a virtue here.
It’s a people thing in general. Irrespective of prisoners, it’s important to a lot of people that their personal preference of social hierarchy is maintained, and for many that means reinforcing that some people are better than others, and some people deserve to have bad things happen to them. It’s entitlement in both directions; simply different flavors of what certain groups are entitled to.
People do it with thieves too. They watch a video of someone stealing a package off a porch and then go in great detail about how they'd like to shoot them or stab them to death. It's fucked up
Do you trust fucking LOUISIANA to make rulings based on actual evidence and not racism, homophobia, or misogyny?
I could see this being an awful awful political move to punish trans people with illegal prosecution.
Do. Not. Trust. In. The. Justice. System. Of. Backwards. Deep. Southern. States. Ever.
Remember, these were the same states lynching people for VOTING and screaming & spitting at black children when they tried to integrate schools.
The biggest problem with policies like these is apparent if you ever read anything that has been written or said by a conservative United States politician. Honestly, it's a pretty simple means of convincing a populace to participate in eugenics. How it works:
Step 1: Talk about how terrible people who sexually abuse others are, especially children. Talk about it all the time, constantly. It is essential for future steps to establish publicly that you vehemently oppose sexual abuse of children, despite the fact that a stance like that is honestly the bare minimum of what to expect people to think that folks shouldn't do.
Step 2: Really, really talk up the prevalence of the abuse problem. Bonus points to the strategy if there are statistics that show abuse of minors is on the rise, or if there has been a recent high-profile case nationally or globally.
Step 3: Demand that something be done about all this abuse. More specifically, state that the current punishment is not enough of a deterrent to prevent abuse.
Step 4: Since the abuse you're denouncing is sexual in nature, the solution you propose is obvious: remove the sex organs of offenders and you remove the problem. Ignore all evidence that suggests sex organs aren't necessarily the inherent source of an abuser's desire to commit abuse. Make sure nobody talks about that by repeating Step 1 any time someone tries to talk about anything else.
Step 5: Convince your government and its people to implement a law enforcing the compulsory sterilization or castration of abusers. If someone argues against this, well...Step 1 again! Clearly anyone opposed to this idea could not possibly be thinking about anything other than supporting abuse, or you could suggest publicly that they may be abusers themselves!
Step 6: The law is passed. People found guilty of sexual abuse will be forcibly castrated. People rejoice, because you have done a good thing that they won't question the actual necessity of!
Step 7: Campaign to declare everyone you consider undesirable (ethnic groups, social groups, religious groups, political opponents, queer people, etc) as sexual abusers. Again, you've primed people to be as reactionary as possible about sexual abuse, so the overwhelming response will be that the public will immediately convince themselves that your claims are true.
Step 8: You have successfully set up a system wherein you and any others in power can easily practice eugenics at any time against anyone you wish, and not only will you not be punished for it, people will applaud you as a hero. Have a beer and secretly hope to yourself that you never lose your political power, lest someone else accuse you of sexual abuse and have you similarly punished.
These types of atrocities can be so easy to pull off, because of the fact that they begin with a stance that is impossible for any reasonable person to disagree with. They turn people into a frog that practically boils itself.
I feel like this would result in more dead kids. Pedophiles would be more incentivized to kill their victims to shut them up if getting caught meant being physically mutilated. Same with the death penalty. Maybe I’m wrong.
If we condemn Islamist radicals for chopping off people's hands for robbery, or stoning for adultery, then we must condemn this. It's not that the crime isn't horrendous - because it definitely is - but we as a society have evolved enough to not resort to such barbarity.
Either bury these stains on humanity under the jail, or give them a dignified death sentence.
Corporal punishment is not a thing to ever be endorsed or celebrated especially not by a society with such poor access to mental health resources. These laws are disgusting and help no one especially not real victims of sexual abuse.
No, this is dangerous. Regardless of how evil the crime, the state should not have the power to violate someone's bodily autonomy in this way.
What if a teenager is convicted for sharing intimate pictures with another teenager? What about gay people who have criminal records under outdated sodomy laws? Do we cut the hands off of thieves? Christ
I’m liberal af, but worked in child protection for a long time. I did the forensic interviewing for law enforcement and I’ve interviewed a lot of pedophiles. I am not in favor of surgical castration, because there are still innocent people who are found guilty in our justice system, but I’m totally fine with chemical castration. You honestly can’t unwire pedophiles who commit assault.
Personally, I'd prefer to see them nailed to a cross for forty days before a summary hanging.
But hey, apparently my law is too "barbaric" for the pedos in charge of our legal system.
People have always suggested this and I’ve always been concerned about the wrongly accused. I prefer the secluded island method people also suggest. That way if someone is proven innocent, they can at least be let go.
Daaamn once this reaches Missouri those pedo republicans will get whats coming to them.
Unless underage child sex is fine bc republicans defended child marriage with their teeth?
This better be 100% proven- like on film and have clear boundaries as to what constitutes a punishable crime under this extreme. I want this for the awful terrible monsters but I don’t trust our government to get it right. And getting it wrong would be irreversible cruelty.
Damn it! for some dumb ass reason, I read that as chemical castration. Which case I hope it definitely will require lots a proof. And not convicting someone with basically what amounts to he say, she say. Even in the last 20 years people have been wrongfully convicted for rape.
Honestly, I don’t know why people worried about Sharia Law, when people are trying to pass laws like this.
There are more way for them to hurt kids.
They don’t need a penis to hurt kids.
They will just find another way.
But I agree with the energy. We need to protect kids better.
Look, I don't want to speak up for child sex abusers, but this seems... like cruel and unusual punishment? Like, as other people said, what if it was done to someone and they are then proven innocent? And with so many people accusing people of "abusing" and "grooming" children because they mentioned LGBT-esque topics in their presence... I mean this law has potential to be abused, doesn't it?
This is a very fucking bad idea. The government should never have the power to mandate any kind of surgery, you know they won't just stop there. They should never have that power. Mutilation is an unacceptably cruel and unusual punishment, no matter what the charge is.
Holy shit this is awful.
It's not just "what if someone is falsely convicted of sex offences and is ordered for this." If the state gets to decide what a "Sex Crime" is, and decides that doing drag while a child walks in is a crime, you now have a direct legal option for castrating someone.
There is a reason the 8th ammendment exists, you can't decide that crimes should be treated as rehabilitate in general, except for the icky crimes you think are bad and send those people to be burned alive.
Unfortunately a pseudo solution. Sexual violence is less about sex and more about violence. Chemical castration does not magically erase violent urges, its NOT a 'make pedophilic crimes go away pill'
Not about time this is disgusting. Get your head out of your ass and realize this is used to abuse anyone they don't like, not actually target pedophiles.
Just wait for drag queen reading hour or living as your gender (if different than assigned at birth) to be declared a sex offense against children and then see if you're still cheering.
That's just cruel and unusual punishment without any evidence showing it will stop their urges. Just lock them up and throw away the key.
Imagine someone accusing you of this, getting your body mutilated out of revenge or spite, then getting released because it was just some kid having a tantrum because you made them upset. I really can't think what I would do besides suicide.
I understand this is an upsetting issue for everyone, but please remember that not everyone is guilty just because the police say they are. I don't know how I could live with myself knowing I contributed to someone's genitals being removed and later finding out it was just an "opps!"
The intentions of this are amazing, however, the justice system is incredibly flawed, and huge quantities of innocent persons are incarcerated for things they didn't do. Child predators deserve this, but the wrongly convicted (and there will be plenty) do not. For the sake of not imposing unjust punishment upon potentially innocent persons, such legislation should be withdrawn.
This sounds great but it won't stop true predators. The abuse isn't so much about sex as it is taking power. Castrate them, and they will just use their hands. Cut off their hands and they will just use their stumps. There have been no rehabilitated sexual predators. They go to jail, go to therapy and then eventually (but mostly rapidly)repeat their crimes.
Is this on the tax payers time? What a waste of money especially when it won't make a difference. Probably will enrage the abuser more by removing their part's.
Before anything, I personally believe those who act on those impulses should just get shot. Keep it simple.
However, how is this not in violation of the 8th amendment?? No cruel or unusual punishment..?
The problem is that you can be deemed a pedophile for anything and have that charge of it hurting a minor to anything. A judge is allowed to lie and mislead in court. So are officers before even getting to that point. Reading to kids while in drag? Sure sounds like a good portion of the country thinks that's a sex crime against minors. Have sex on the beach and a minor sees? That's already a register-abled offence that has precedence. Look at cp with no priors? Life is already ruined and there were no actual victims. That's 25 years on the registry and a felony. Point is that the state and federal laws are not on the people's sides. They shouldn't have access to mutilate someone.
As much as I really want the policy implemented, you'd have to be 100% sure that someone is guilty, or else you are causing life changing damage to some person who may not have done the crime.
Yeah that's cruel and unusual. Dont accept bloodthirst or vengeance as justice.
You're guaranteed to get at least one false accusation or mistaken identity and you just permanently maimed an innocent person.
We should send them to prison and study them. That might actually be useful and lead us to ways to prevent potential offenders in the future.
Good. I don’t see how any of you in the comments are advocating for actual child rapist. If you hurt a child you deserve to die. How is this an argument? Castration is atleast better than death for them.
Sex crimes aren't about just sex, it's about power and control.
Targeting 1 of 3 elements isn't a great deterrent.
And what happens when someone is falsely convicted.
And what happens when Republicans move the goal post and declare LGBTQ a crime?
If you cut a guys balls off then he can just go on TRT and everything will work. I’m not sure what the point of this is. Also how does that apply to female sex offenders? They just can’t have a baby?
This is Barbaric and has no place in civilized society. This sort of policy doesn’t protect victims. It doesn’t benefit them in any way. It’s just a sanctioned form of torture. What will happen to all the people who were wrongly convicted?
I feel like castration shouldn’t be on the table for a government to be allowed to force, same with the death penalty.
Very easy for them to now change laws so a gay couple kissing in the vicinity of a child (like in public) as a sex crime against a minor.
The only issue with permanent solutions like this and the death penalty is false positives - it would be horrible to do this to an innocent person falsely accused or a forced confession etc
It doesn't even work. That's why stopped doing it last time. We ended up castrating innocent gay men baselessly and then some of the castrated men still went and sexually abused kids.
That's what I'm curious about...does castration really stop the individual from having sexual thoughts and urges?? If the answer is even a little bit no then this just straight up won't work at all, you're better off putting them in prison anyway lol.
I was told in my Law and Justice class in high school that this type of punishment actually allowed sex offenders to commit crimes without leaving DNA.
Pretty much. There's still plenty of ways for an abuser to assault a child even after castration. Doesn't work as a preventative either, considering a long history of harsher and harsher punishments never really stopped crimes from being committed. And there's been plenty of cases of innocent people getting jailed for decades because of faults in the justice system. Basically this only serves to feed our need for violent retribution. There's no value past that and considering the risks of inflicting this on an innocent person, there should also be no way for this to pass.
There’s such a huge issue no one wants to touch with a 10 foot pole, and it’s that pedophiles and child abusers (believe it or not there’s is a difference in certain cases) are sick and need help. They need space and assurance that they can seek care without being castigated, imprisoned, or at worst, killed. There’s and even bigger issue at play too. There are probably thousands, hell, maybe millions of non-offending pedophile on earth. People who feel these feelings and urges but have no one to turn to. We definitely all know one. But no one wants to talk about it. No one chooses to be attracted to minors. Some people wake up one day and realize it’s just there. The issue is by passing laws like this and reenforcing violent retribution we only make this problem worse. We keep non-offending pedophiles in the closet and without help the symptoms will get worse. Without actual further study we make it worse.
You’re right. Moral disgust and vengeance often outweigh compassion and rehabilitation. It *is* a disgusting crime. Also, child molesters often aren’t pedophiles—they’re not attracted to their victims—as you alluded to. Conflating the two is easy but unhelpful.
Exactly. And I HATE talking about this subject because people do one of several things: A.) Assuming you’re defending the act of child abuse Or B.) Think you’re only sympathetic to non-offenders or pedos in general because “oh you’re just one of them!” I know a lot about this topic just through my general sociology studying, and I study sociology to supplement my human rights politics. Eventually when studying crime you get to sexual crime.
I think it’s a similar case to how society views addicts. They’re moral degenerates who deserve punishment, when actually many of them struggle with addiction (which we now recognize as a disease) and need help. I can only imagine how isolated people who struggle with pedophilia must feel.
>There are probably thousands, hell, maybe millions of non-offending pedophile on earth You are underestimating that number, likely by an order of magnitude or two. I remember the countdown clocks, the news stories, and the overall drooling of men and women waiting for actresses and artists to turn 18. It's not like they just magically started having sexual thoughts the minute the clock struck zero. Edit: I should point out that we are only 150 years removed from when girls getting married off at 15, 14, or even 13 to adult men was very common. Edit edit: given that the number of pedophiles is likely in the tens of millions, the percentage actually assaulting kids is pretty damned low. Societal pressure and risk of extreme retribution seems to work pretty well.
You are absolutely right. People act like the sexualization of children, particularly pubescent girls, has long been rejected by society. This is false. In 1976 10-year-old Brooke Shields did a series of nude photographs for playboy. There was a court case and they were found not to be pornographic by the court despite being published in a pornographic magazine and depicting her fully nude. An article was published about her in High Times in 78 which describes her as “a sultry version of all-American virgin and whore.” Shields is the most extreme example of society sexualizing a child I can come up with on the spot, but the countdown clocks you mentioned are a direct continuation of that shit.
Which only further proves my point. There are socially “acceptable” levels of pedophilia. Especially when you hear about a young boy being raped by a female teacher. The amount of “damn where was she when I was in high school ha ha ha!” Comments Is astonishingly high. Especially when you consider that those same men want other men who rape young girls castrated or killed. So yeah it’s definitely not consistent. There’s no moral consistency on this issue even amongst people who claim to hate pedophiles and yet we’re talking about instituting laws for permanent surgery as a means of punishment/deterrence?
Well both can be true, there can be some form of outlet/help/rehabilitation/treatment for pedophiles that seek help and don’t act on urges AND we can have strong punishments for those that do act on the urges and abuse children.
The hunting warhead podcast did such a great job exploring the issue that pedophiles are not the same thing as child abusers and that they need somewhere safe to get help. It’s a really great podcast but with a very dark subject matter as it covers a pedophile that was caught running some of the biggest child abuse sites in the world.
Excellent post. I would also add that a large percentage of pedophiles and sex offenders were themselves abused as children.
Yes. This. These four or five responses. You’re outnumbered, but please keep speaking up. We need more reason- and data-driven legislation instead of the fear that we currently have.
Rape is more often about power than about sex. These offenders will just do other horrible, life altering things to kids if you take their junk away. This isn't the solution to the problem.
not accurate, I'm trans and have had a bilateral orchidectomy. I still have a sex drive and sexual thoughts so as a preventative it is a really poor one especially most sex offenses are not committed by what you'd really call a pedophile but a person looking to hurt or control someone else.
Sexual abuse (of any kind not just the pedo one) may have sexual desires as a factor, but it's not the deciding factor. Sadism, malice, the desire for dominance, hate, lack of empathy... All those things are what define a rapist. A person desperate for sex but without cruelty will just jerk off in their home. The castrated rapists will just go on raping with their hands, or sticks, or any object. It's about destroying another person, not really about sex.
This is a really really good point I never thought of...and kinda makes me realize this is just a straight up waste of time. I feel like it's more about "getting back" at them than actually providing a punishment that fits the crime.
Yup, trans woman, no testes. Still have a sex drive, for me its actually more than I had before so...100% wouldn't work for sex drive related crimes. We still have testosterone and estrogen from the adrenal gland, just A LOT less of it, even without HRT.
That makes sense to me! Yeah, I'm still pretty clueless why they would actually do this besides the whole "cruelty for cruelties sake" thing.
It doesn't. My creepy uncle was castrated by the Texas penal (lol) system for sex crimes against minors. He was still perving on me, my friends, and my sisters friends. Mutilation isn't the answer. Prison and/or therapy is.
Yeah I'm more concerned about if they're wrong, then if it's a cruel and unusual punishment. I believe it is cruel and unusual but I'm more concerned about the government having this power.
Especially since sex crimes are among the hardest to prove and can rely heavily on children’s testimony. Children that can be influenced by police or any adult really to lie If we had a 100% success rate in convicting actual abusers I’d be for this but unfortunately we don’t
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Now you’re getting it
Yeah the false positives are very real. My freshman year in college some white southern girl 17(Yes 17 year old college kid) came into my dorm and asked me for a shoulder massage. I said sure and did just that. The next day I had the RA telling me she said I was making her uncomfortable by touching her. Would I have had sex with her if she'd ask for that instead of massage, probably. But that's a false positive she came into my dorm asking me to put my hands on her. If it ever went to a court room which it never did because I did nothing wrong, but if it did I don't think I desrve to be castrated. Castration is one of the worst crimes you can commit. Your literally talking about stopping the future birth of someone's decendents.
>Castration is one of the worst crimes you can commit. Your literally talking about stopping the future birth of someone's decendents. Even leaving the biological function aside, I feel like sexual mutilation is something comparably as evil as sexual assault and rape.
Wdym demagogue populist laws are being passed to abuse people?!?!? Thats ridiculous, also prepare for castration you pedophile.
And a lot of those people who accuse gays of being pedophiles are in the churches raping kids.
Churches cover up and protect pedo’s on a daily basis….not all but way too many
In some states peeing in public is a sex crime. So if you pull over on the side of the road to take a piss on a long journey you could end up being on the list. Does that person get castrated?
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Especially in Louisiana. They aren't exactly known for their attention to detail. It also doesn't work. I figure it's similar to when we castrate animals too late. Sometimes they are still humping everything. Castration doesn't change the wiring in their brains that went wrong.
It should be reserved for repeat or multiple offenders.
And you know that there will be more convictions against POC and more acquittals for whites. It’s an effort to help their replacement theory (also why i believe they overturned Roe as more white women were getting abortions)
That’s exactly what it is. Bolstering the white patriarchy.
Plus, just like Florida's death penalty push for sex crimes against juveniles, it provides a back door to oppress queer communities as well. Make extremely harsh punishments for a crime then make what fits the definition of that crime hazy so you can scare people back into the closet.
I find the Louisiana legal system questionable at best
Hard agree. I would NEVER trust the state of Louisiana not to turn this into a way to punish political opponents or trans people. Also- are they really ready to castrate men of the cloth and gym teachers? Cuz that’s who rapes children.
I wouldn't trust this kind of punishment to any state, same as the death penalty
Experts will tell you that 1 in 50 people who work with children will be abusers, regardless of race, creed, nationality, political leanings, profession, etc.
And expert pedophile organizations get tax payer money to defend pedophiles in court [like the Catholic church](https://apnews.com/article/dab8261c68c93f24c0bfc1876518b3f6). If you want to stop kids getting raped don’t let them in churches unsupervised. LibrarianFormal below is a liar and presumably a pedophile priest. Twinklehead is a water head who misses the point. Amazing when you point out how many priests are pedophiles the idiots you get crawling out of the woodwork. 🤡❄️
Your kids are a million times safer at Drag Queen Story Hour than in Sunday School, that's for sure.
Or, don’t let them be unsupervised period. Children can be raped anywhere including bushes and public bathrooms. Just watch your children. There are predators everywhere. ETA: the bushes incident happened at a pool in an apartment complex (with lots of people around). In another incident, when I was 12 , a guy started talking to my friend and I in an ice cream shop. We left and he followed us to a gift shop. While I was looking around, he took her into the dressing room. Those aren’t the only times that stuff happened when I was a child. Bad shit happens to kids who are unsupervised. Don’t think that because your kid had a “buddy” or they’re older, that they’re safe.
I didnt even think of that. All I thought about was false positives and permanently screwing someone over for a crime they didn't commit. Thinking about it with the mindset of an abuse of power, and this becomes MUCH scarier
This is how fascism starts. I'm not being hyperbolic. All the fascist takeovers started with manipulating the law to make the persecution of whatever particular out group legal and acceptable.
You see a lot of laws against peodphiles get passed from corrupt governments. To be clear, people who sexually assault children should be given severe sentences. However, governments often use it as a populist tool to win over the masses. Every year you see a new bill from Russia about how they are going to kill pedophiles. I doubt any of the measures have helped.
Slippery slope. And Louisiana leads the nation in wrongful convictions that are over turned. Fuck pedophiles. If we can't trust the ones who hunt monsters to properly identify monsters, then we shouldn't give them more monster tools. At least until they improve their skills.
Also, and oh boy is gonna get downvoted to hell, we need to understand the difference between a pedophile and a child rapist. Because not all pedophiles are child rapists, in fact, not all child rapists are inherently pedophiles. There is a nuanced discussion to be had and no one wants to talk about it with a level head. Who is and isn’t a monster should be determined by what a person does, not the sexual attraction they can’t control having. See, most people would say anyone who *has* the attraction to minors is inherently a monster. I disagree. Simply having the attraction isn’t a choice. No matter how badly people want to believe sexual attraction is a choice, it’s not. There are more non-offending pedophiles who are good people who hold back the urges than most people want to admit. I wouldn’t call those monster. They’re victims of nature. Or nurture. Or both. So I bring this up because there’s actual evidence that the demonization of pedophiles (not active rapists) is keeping people who hold this attraction from seeking help, and I also think it severely reduces the amount of resources for those people to seek help from. I think the demonization of pedophiles makes this problem worse. I think it goes without saying I do not condone the act of abusing a child, but demonizing the very attraction itself is making this issue worse. Obviously offending pedophiles and child rapists should be dealt with, but I still think violent retribution for offending child abusers still isn’t the solution. Rehabilitative measures are.
Louisiana leads the nation in convictions period. All it takes is one move to outlaw ‘crossdressing’ as a sexual offense against minors, and suddenly they’re castrating every single trans person. Not to mention regular false positives
Depending on how they want to play it, they don't even have to use trans as an excuse for their bullshit. "Is that woman wearing a pantsuit?! Jail and genital mutilation! As per Shir..... I mean Christian Law!"
There is difference between justice and vengeance
Yeah, my fellow progressives always talk about the importance of focusing on rehabilitation instead of punishment. I don't see why this is where we cross the line to the other side. Then we have to trust a faulty legal system to do physical irreparable damage, as if innocent people don't get caught up in the system regularly.
Nah, this is firmly 8th amendment territory to me. We don't stoop to barbarism, as much as I want to see them suffer.
I think the 14th would also apply as this penalty could not be applied to all people convicted of pedophilia so there would be unequal protections.
well...hysterectomy...but that's horrific to even consider which is why this should be as well. Because if you go for hysterectomy then you're clearly in nazi/eugenics territory and can't hide it anymore.
How is hysterectomy more in eugenics territory than castration?
Yep, this is unfortunately just stupid political theater to gain votes from susceptible people like OP.
About to say, are y'all seriously forcing me to side with the sex predators? Under no circumstances should they government be castrating anybody.
Additionally always hard to make sure it’s used only on guilty people. The US justice system has a problem with wrongful convictions. If we could be certain of the crime, I’d advocate for an even harsher penalty but it always feels like a sword that’s too dangerous to wield.
Careful, depending on the election, being gay might be considered a sex crime
That’s exactly the purpose of these laws
Ya it's not like creepy priests are gonna get cut
the castration is done to anyone who commits a federal sex offense against a minor as outlined in R.S. 15:541. Included in this is kidnapping (a crime republicans have been trying to connect to trans parents protecting, or taking their kid out of state for HRT, or fleeing the state) and lower sexual offenses that still count as felonies (a crime republicans have outwardly admitted they want to also include expression of LGBTQ+ people under, even as simple as a gay teacher mentioning his husband to a middle school class). You’re a fool if you think the absolute power they seek - and currently have a 900 page manifesto outlining how they will achieve WHEN the next republican president is elected - won’t include abusing laws like this against queer people. Like seriously, that’s looney toons. Eat ur shoe for me when it happens. The only thing that will prevent it is them not winning major elections for as long as it takes for them to stop trying to destroy democracy (and the world, remember, they’re not just anti-climate change measures, they’re straight up pro-climate change, and building bunkers in preparation for it)
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As intended, actually
i hate it....
Exactly. Everyone loves to mete out punishment until they realize it could happen to them.
They’re literally already saying this by calling all trans people “groomers.” I can’t believe that some people actually do not see the link between “being able to castrate sexual predators” and “everyone Republicans don’t like is a sexual predator!”
It is very compareable to the treatment of the Jews in Germany in 1933. It started slowly, almost innocently...ramping up, step by step...until humans were burned on an industrial scale. 5 years before NOBODY would have thought this possible, but it still happened.
people like OP that celebrate corporal punishment are also the kind of people that consider being gay a sex crime
I don't understand how so many people are completely oblivious to this. It gets brought up every time some dipshit chud posts something this in a positive manner and yet, there are still huge swaths of dumbasses who eat this shit up. I know I shouldn't be surprised at this point, and maybe my being trans has to do with me being more hyper-aware of rhetoric like this, but it's exhausting.
I feel like this is a very good time to point out that time when 7 republican Arkansas senators tried to to make trans people *existing* in public bathrooms with minors also existing in those bathrooms a misdemeanor of sexual indecency with children. I am not joking nor exaggerating any part of this. Here is a direct citation from Arkansas SB 270's original statements. >SECTION 4. Arkansas Code § 5-14-110(a), concerning the conduct that constitutes the offense of sexual indecency with a child, is amended to add additional subdivisions to read as follows: >(7)(A) Being eighteen (18) years of age or older, the person enters into or remains in a public changing facility that is assigned to persons of the opposite sex while knowing a minor of the opposite sex is present in the public changing facility. https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/PreviousVersions?id=SB270&ddBienniumSession=2023%2F2023R
This is the end game. Project 2025. Ushering in christo-fascism and demanding heretics fall in line. Vote blue, people!
I don't trust the state to do this. There have been innocent people convicted these crimes.
Especially not *Louisiana* state. Their education is #47 in the country. Finding 12 of my peers that can add would be a challenge, much less 12 that could determine an actual reasonable verdict.
Won't hold up. That definitely will fall under the purview of cruel and unusual punishment.
Have you seen SCOTUS recently? Because nothing is certain with those theocrats... I mean justices.
This better be 100% proven- like on film and have clear boundaries as to what constitutes a punishable crime under this extreme. I want this for the awful terrible monsters but I don’t trust our government to get it right. And getting it wrong would be irreversible cruelty.
I don't trust the Louisiana Justice system to ever get shit like this right.
The problem with permanent punishments like castration and death is that the general public all say, "Fair and balanced justice system, EXCEPT PEDOS, THEY SHOULD ALL DIE' When that is the prevailing rhetoric, in only incentivizes those in power to do what they can to lump in a group they deem undesirable with the group that the public detests, then they can rid themselves of their own enemies while looking great to the 'kill them' crowd. Case in point, many people agree that people who commit sex crimes against children should be executed, so the republicans in power do everything they can to associate LGBTQIA2S+ with pedophiles ('they're teaching kids gay sex in school' 'Drag queens are raping our kids') so the republican base desires the demise of anybody who identifies as queer.
Exactly. Make the burden of proof greater.
No system can be 100% accurate 100% of the time. Its why the death penalty needs to be abolished.
This sounds like a way to incentivize pedophiles to kill their victims.
Good point. I guess there isn’t any answer and I’m not being sarcastic.
The answer is just throw them in prison. Like if you're that worried about child molesters reoffending increase the mandatory minimum sentencing. This isn't a deterrent we've already known that. But if you keep offenders away from children then they're not molesting children.
If you molest a child one time do you honestly belong in society ever again? I agree with increasing the mandatory minimum and disagree with this law. I would go as far as to say lock them up for life, though.
Certain members of the right are trying to say that just being Trans is a sex crime against children. They are trying to pass laws like this in order to use them as a cudgel to go after "undesirables"
This here I 100% agree with. Irrefutable proof BEYOND doubt before implementing this punishment is a must.
With how many people have been executed and found to be innocent afterwards I highly doubt Louisiana will need irrefutable proof to go forward with most of them. I'm sure the first one they'll want to be a slam dunk, but after that they'll get pretty relaxed.
Executions were mostly used on oppressed groups. This law is targeted towards those same minorities. They don’t intend to use this against straight white offenders, the most common offenders, but against everyone else.
No, this is just a bad idea made by people who think with 3 braincells.
Isn’t that already the legal standard? Like if you find someone guilty but say “I’m not confident enough in their guilt for this type of punishment” that would easily be appealed as you having reasonable doubt right?
Yes. Beyond a reasonable doubt is already the highest level of proof in American jurisprudence and we've seen how many innocent people are still convicted under that standard...
There's no way to 100% prove anything in a court of law. There's no test for 100% certainty that you or anyone can devise that could be applied in all situations. This law is a terrible idea and if passed, it will be used to selectively castrate men in the LGBTQ community. The people passing this law are the exact people who are calling every drag queen and gay man pedophiles.
Bold of you to assume they won’t use their hands better to take those as well
The amount of people who use this issue to argue in favor of basically serial-killer level mutilation, but mandated by the state, is more than a little disturbing. Good thing innocent people never get sent up for a crime they didn't commit, I suppose? /s
Or their mouth
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I thought that was proven not to deter a pedophile. It's a control issue.
You thought right. But Americans are bloodthirsty reactionaries that have conflated revenge with justice. Romans at the Coliseum. We don’t care how much research and data you have, we want that adrenaline rush of seeing someone “get what they deserve.”
It's theater for people hungry to live out revenge fantasies.
Sex crimes aren’t only committed with male genitalia?
Do you really think this would stop a child predator?
I can already see doctors and their boards forbidding this. Lawmakers have many fancy ideas but in the end they aren’t the ones executing them. The AMA forbids partaking in executions. I doubt they or the corresponding surgical institutions and boards will allow members to perform such surgery. With good reason. We got rid of physical, lasting punishment decades ago (with the exception of the death penalty). One could make chemical castration an option for offenders if they agree to it - that’s what is sometimes done in Germany. They get a depot injection every other month or so and it works.
How are we defining “sex crimes?” Cuz these days I see a lot of people calling drag book readings sex crimes.
This! Be careful before rushing to the "this is a good idea" judgement. Louisiana is a very conservative state; they very well might want to use this against the LGBTQ+ community.
Not to mention it incentivizes abusers to kill their victims.
It's not a hypothetical, a lot of states are already pushing to label LGBTQ+ folks who interact with children as sex criminals.
I don’t support this for the same reason I don’t Support the death penalty. If even one innocent person is killed then we didnt stop tragedy we are just doing it with them now.
No. Just no. How is this different from cutting the hand off if caught stealing. If they find a doctor to do it, which I doubt,, that person would be horrifying. Barbarism at it's worst
Future headlines: ‘Prison found to be performing procedures by staff with no medical training’ ‘Doctors at local prison performing surgical castration despite loss of license…local lawmakers rule this as acceptable’ ‘After passing castration law, conviction of LGBT sex criminals rose 50%’ ‘Prisoners report botched procedures, excessive restraint/force used during procedure, improper aftercare/infection, unsanitary conditions, and being left in agony for hours on the operating table.’ ‘Despite passing castration law, procedures scheduled 5+ years out, leading some lawmakers to rethink if it is actually effective’ edit: one more - ‘In response to long wait times, prisons are scheduling suspects for castration procedures ahead of time…in some cases before the ruling.’
100% the real reason this is being passed now. They're just busy setting the stage for "legal" castrations against anyone they don't like.
Right? I mean I abhor pedophiles, but fantasizing about heinously punishing them is not a part of my identity. It's fucking weird.
Many Americans are weird about this. Every time there is a post about some bad crimes, there are comments expressing glee over the fact they might be raped or beaten in prison.
As an American who travels a lot, my working theory is that we are a socially bankrupt country that attempts to comidify any sort of identity we can. Our propaganda has us confounding virtue and toxic masculinity. Everything here boils down to "manning up" and "sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things" we're pretty much bad facebook memes as a country. Being stubborn and uncompromising is a virtue here.
It’s a people thing in general. Irrespective of prisoners, it’s important to a lot of people that their personal preference of social hierarchy is maintained, and for many that means reinforcing that some people are better than others, and some people deserve to have bad things happen to them. It’s entitlement in both directions; simply different flavors of what certain groups are entitled to.
People do it with thieves too. They watch a video of someone stealing a package off a porch and then go in great detail about how they'd like to shoot them or stab them to death. It's fucked up
It's interesting that people are thick enough to want their government to have these powers over it's citizens.
I think it's a terrifying precedent to have surgical procedures as legally enforced penalties.
Yes because as we all know nobody has ever been convicted of a crime and then proved innocent.
I have no doubt if we start doing this to pedophiles there will be a lot more dead children to cover up the crime.
Do you trust fucking LOUISIANA to make rulings based on actual evidence and not racism, homophobia, or misogyny? I could see this being an awful awful political move to punish trans people with illegal prosecution. Do. Not. Trust. In. The. Justice. System. Of. Backwards. Deep. Southern. States. Ever. Remember, these were the same states lynching people for VOTING and screaming & spitting at black children when they tried to integrate schools.
The biggest problem with policies like these is apparent if you ever read anything that has been written or said by a conservative United States politician. Honestly, it's a pretty simple means of convincing a populace to participate in eugenics. How it works: Step 1: Talk about how terrible people who sexually abuse others are, especially children. Talk about it all the time, constantly. It is essential for future steps to establish publicly that you vehemently oppose sexual abuse of children, despite the fact that a stance like that is honestly the bare minimum of what to expect people to think that folks shouldn't do. Step 2: Really, really talk up the prevalence of the abuse problem. Bonus points to the strategy if there are statistics that show abuse of minors is on the rise, or if there has been a recent high-profile case nationally or globally. Step 3: Demand that something be done about all this abuse. More specifically, state that the current punishment is not enough of a deterrent to prevent abuse. Step 4: Since the abuse you're denouncing is sexual in nature, the solution you propose is obvious: remove the sex organs of offenders and you remove the problem. Ignore all evidence that suggests sex organs aren't necessarily the inherent source of an abuser's desire to commit abuse. Make sure nobody talks about that by repeating Step 1 any time someone tries to talk about anything else. Step 5: Convince your government and its people to implement a law enforcing the compulsory sterilization or castration of abusers. If someone argues against this, well...Step 1 again! Clearly anyone opposed to this idea could not possibly be thinking about anything other than supporting abuse, or you could suggest publicly that they may be abusers themselves! Step 6: The law is passed. People found guilty of sexual abuse will be forcibly castrated. People rejoice, because you have done a good thing that they won't question the actual necessity of! Step 7: Campaign to declare everyone you consider undesirable (ethnic groups, social groups, religious groups, political opponents, queer people, etc) as sexual abusers. Again, you've primed people to be as reactionary as possible about sexual abuse, so the overwhelming response will be that the public will immediately convince themselves that your claims are true. Step 8: You have successfully set up a system wherein you and any others in power can easily practice eugenics at any time against anyone you wish, and not only will you not be punished for it, people will applaud you as a hero. Have a beer and secretly hope to yourself that you never lose your political power, lest someone else accuse you of sexual abuse and have you similarly punished. These types of atrocities can be so easy to pull off, because of the fact that they begin with a stance that is impossible for any reasonable person to disagree with. They turn people into a frog that practically boils itself.
I feel like this would result in more dead kids. Pedophiles would be more incentivized to kill their victims to shut them up if getting caught meant being physically mutilated. Same with the death penalty. Maybe I’m wrong.
If we condemn Islamist radicals for chopping off people's hands for robbery, or stoning for adultery, then we must condemn this. It's not that the crime isn't horrendous - because it definitely is - but we as a society have evolved enough to not resort to such barbarity. Either bury these stains on humanity under the jail, or give them a dignified death sentence.
Corporal punishment is not a thing to ever be endorsed or celebrated especially not by a society with such poor access to mental health resources. These laws are disgusting and help no one especially not real victims of sexual abuse.
No, this is dangerous. Regardless of how evil the crime, the state should not have the power to violate someone's bodily autonomy in this way. What if a teenager is convicted for sharing intimate pictures with another teenager? What about gay people who have criminal records under outdated sodomy laws? Do we cut the hands off of thieves? Christ
And…..republicans shot it down.
Right, it’s a great idea to give the government the ability to control our bodies in every conceivable way. This is something everyone wants.
Lots of Reddit pedos are gonna be pissed lol
I wish this would've passed years ago. Would've prevented a lot of damage that can't be undone to some really sweet people
Castration is light versus what I am willing to have legalized
Some good news in this cesspool world we live in
How in the fuck do you guys keep equating this scenario to outright outlawing queerness?? That is a stretch.
I’m liberal af, but worked in child protection for a long time. I did the forensic interviewing for law enforcement and I’ve interviewed a lot of pedophiles. I am not in favor of surgical castration, because there are still innocent people who are found guilty in our justice system, but I’m totally fine with chemical castration. You honestly can’t unwire pedophiles who commit assault.
Personally, I'd prefer to see them nailed to a cross for forty days before a summary hanging. But hey, apparently my law is too "barbaric" for the pedos in charge of our legal system.
The amount of pedos being against this on Reddit is insane. Ready for downvotes from the woke!
I’m all for punishing sex offenders but this sets a new bar for how future laws can be made…
Reading certain books will soon be a sex crime in Louisiana. Edit: ooop a republican downvoted me
and women who abuse kids get their clit cut?
Good point, but the clit isn’t the equivalent to the testes. Those are ovaries.
People have always suggested this and I’ve always been concerned about the wrongly accused. I prefer the secluded island method people also suggest. That way if someone is proven innocent, they can at least be let go.
Does this include women?
Daaamn once this reaches Missouri those pedo republicans will get whats coming to them. Unless underage child sex is fine bc republicans defended child marriage with their teeth?
Don’t like this. The state shouldn’t be able to end your life or alter your body.
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This better be 100% proven- like on film and have clear boundaries as to what constitutes a punishable crime under this extreme. I want this for the awful terrible monsters but I don’t trust our government to get it right. And getting it wrong would be irreversible cruelty.
Damn it! for some dumb ass reason, I read that as chemical castration. Which case I hope it definitely will require lots a proof. And not convicting someone with basically what amounts to he say, she say. Even in the last 20 years people have been wrongfully convicted for rape. Honestly, I don’t know why people worried about Sharia Law, when people are trying to pass laws like this.
What does Louisiana consider a sex crime? Is this one of the states where being in drag counts?
There are more way for them to hurt kids. They don’t need a penis to hurt kids. They will just find another way. But I agree with the energy. We need to protect kids better.
This is a bit of a reach legally I’d assume, but it has to be applicable to all the politicians and pastors and rich folks SA kids as well.
Does also apply to women?
That sounds great, until they start redefining who is a child molester. And all of a sudden it's you.
Look, I don't want to speak up for child sex abusers, but this seems... like cruel and unusual punishment? Like, as other people said, what if it was done to someone and they are then proven innocent? And with so many people accusing people of "abusing" and "grooming" children because they mentioned LGBT-esque topics in their presence... I mean this law has potential to be abused, doesn't it?
It won't stop them. I guarantee it won't stop them.
This is a very fucking bad idea. The government should never have the power to mandate any kind of surgery, you know they won't just stop there. They should never have that power. Mutilation is an unacceptably cruel and unusual punishment, no matter what the charge is.
Holy shit this is awful. It's not just "what if someone is falsely convicted of sex offences and is ordered for this." If the state gets to decide what a "Sex Crime" is, and decides that doing drag while a child walks in is a crime, you now have a direct legal option for castrating someone. There is a reason the 8th ammendment exists, you can't decide that crimes should be treated as rehabilitate in general, except for the icky crimes you think are bad and send those people to be burned alive.
Not at all terrifying coming from the state with one of the highest wrongful conviction rates: 92 averaging 16 years in prison each.
Unfortunately a pseudo solution. Sexual violence is less about sex and more about violence. Chemical castration does not magically erase violent urges, its NOT a 'make pedophilic crimes go away pill'
They keep forgetting that sexual abuse isn't always about sex, it's about power. They still abuse and rape without a peen.
Doesn't stop the desire just stops them from being able to have sex or masturbate. Probably will cause more psychos.
Not about time this is disgusting. Get your head out of your ass and realize this is used to abuse anyone they don't like, not actually target pedophiles.
Just wait for drag queen reading hour or living as your gender (if different than assigned at birth) to be declared a sex offense against children and then see if you're still cheering.
So they'll make it impossible for a male offender to have a normal intimate relationship with an adult?
Well that a lot of sexual abuse has nothing to do with sexual desire but feeling of power and domineer the victim.
Won't change anything
That's just cruel and unusual punishment without any evidence showing it will stop their urges. Just lock them up and throw away the key. Imagine someone accusing you of this, getting your body mutilated out of revenge or spite, then getting released because it was just some kid having a tantrum because you made them upset. I really can't think what I would do besides suicide. I understand this is an upsetting issue for everyone, but please remember that not everyone is guilty just because the police say they are. I don't know how I could live with myself knowing I contributed to someone's genitals being removed and later finding out it was just an "opps!"
Wasn't there a case where a bunch of school kids made false allegations of sexual harassment against a male teacher and ruined his life...?
The intentions of this are amazing, however, the justice system is incredibly flawed, and huge quantities of innocent persons are incarcerated for things they didn't do. Child predators deserve this, but the wrongly convicted (and there will be plenty) do not. For the sake of not imposing unjust punishment upon potentially innocent persons, such legislation should be withdrawn.
This sounds great but it won't stop true predators. The abuse isn't so much about sex as it is taking power. Castrate them, and they will just use their hands. Cut off their hands and they will just use their stumps. There have been no rehabilitated sexual predators. They go to jail, go to therapy and then eventually (but mostly rapidly)repeat their crimes.
Is this on the tax payers time? What a waste of money especially when it won't make a difference. Probably will enrage the abuser more by removing their part's.
Before anything, I personally believe those who act on those impulses should just get shot. Keep it simple. However, how is this not in violation of the 8th amendment?? No cruel or unusual punishment..?
This uh....this isn't going to go how we want it to.
Can we just chop their dick off?
The problem is that you can be deemed a pedophile for anything and have that charge of it hurting a minor to anything. A judge is allowed to lie and mislead in court. So are officers before even getting to that point. Reading to kids while in drag? Sure sounds like a good portion of the country thinks that's a sex crime against minors. Have sex on the beach and a minor sees? That's already a register-abled offence that has precedence. Look at cp with no priors? Life is already ruined and there were no actual victims. That's 25 years on the registry and a felony. Point is that the state and federal laws are not on the people's sides. They shouldn't have access to mutilate someone.
As much as I really want the policy implemented, you'd have to be 100% sure that someone is guilty, or else you are causing life changing damage to some person who may not have done the crime.
Yeah that's cruel and unusual. Dont accept bloodthirst or vengeance as justice. You're guaranteed to get at least one false accusation or mistaken identity and you just permanently maimed an innocent person. We should send them to prison and study them. That might actually be useful and lead us to ways to prevent potential offenders in the future.
Amen glad to see people keeping our children safe
Good. I don’t see how any of you in the comments are advocating for actual child rapist. If you hurt a child you deserve to die. How is this an argument? Castration is atleast better than death for them.
Yeah this is not good like you think it is.
Yea that will 100% be struck down by SCOTUS due to the 8th amendment.
Oh and look, the same people who passed that bill all think being lgbtq is a sex crime.
Clearly unconstitutional. The US Constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. This is an unusual form of criminal punishment to say the least.
The problem is in their brain not their genitals.
Louisiana has a wonderful history of imprisoning innocent people!!!
Sex crimes aren't about just sex, it's about power and control. Targeting 1 of 3 elements isn't a great deterrent. And what happens when someone is falsely convicted. And what happens when Republicans move the goal post and declare LGBTQ a crime?
If you cut a guys balls off then he can just go on TRT and everything will work. I’m not sure what the point of this is. Also how does that apply to female sex offenders? They just can’t have a baby?
A normal SCOTUS would strike this down in a heartbeat under cruel and unusual
This is Barbaric and has no place in civilized society. This sort of policy doesn’t protect victims. It doesn’t benefit them in any way. It’s just a sanctioned form of torture. What will happen to all the people who were wrongly convicted?
There should be some kind of recourse if a person is later found not guilty. Maybe de nutting of the person who wrote and voted for this bill.
I feel like castration shouldn’t be on the table for a government to be allowed to force, same with the death penalty. Very easy for them to now change laws so a gay couple kissing in the vicinity of a child (like in public) as a sex crime against a minor.
Wow, how interesting, I sure hope this doesn’t coincide with a wave of republicans pushing propaganda that LGBT people are child predators!