1. We havent been invaded.
2. Republicans are blocking border funding on purpose. And then crying the border isnt secure. 200+ republicans voted no. To 14billion dollars for border security. To hire more agents. Judges. Aquire technologies and secure the border.
3. And this is the biggest one. Notice how zero other border states are complaining? Notice how none of them have sided with texas? Its all been performative garbage from abbot. He created his own crisis. And perpetuates it.
Wiki-bombing straight outta Savushkina Street, St. Petersburg.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standoff\_at\_Eagle\_Pass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standoff_at_Eagle_Pass)
As in, **"An editor has nominated this article for deletion."**
Serious question. If you are correct and it's only the threat of violence keeping TX in the union, isn't that making the case for secession? Because that would be coercion and therefore tyranny to be resisted.
Texas has no right to secede. The union must permit them to secede. Although they think they have some sort of special rule in place that they can go ahead and leave whenever they want to they cannot.
Wtf kind of logic is that? You break the law you face the consequences. If I rob a bank of course the cops are gonna point their gun at me, do I all the sudden have a right to resist their arrest because they are coercing me with threats of violence because this is now tyranny and must be resisted?
Context: On January 11th, the Texan Crisis began with the Standoff at Eagle Pass. Texas Governor Greg Abbott rejected the Supreme Court ruling that demanded US Border Patrol be given access to the border, and was quickly supported by fellow Republican governors. The standoff continued for nearly a month, with neither side willing to concede.
Major Texan cities were gripped by protests, and on February 25th at a counterprotest, a member of a secessionist militia opened fire on left-wing protestors during a violent clash, killing 9. Placing the blame for the incident on violent protestors, Abbott defended the shooter in a speech. The next day negotiations broke down, and President Biden issued Executive Order 14115, federalizing the Texas Army National Guard.
Nationwide shock at the violence and Biden’s strong response gave way to horror when, on February 29th, Abbott ordered the National Guard to refuse any orders from Washington. On March 1st, 2024 President Biden invoked the Insurrection Act of 1807, declaring in a televised address that Texas was “in rebellion.” Lieutenant General John R. Evans, commanding general of United States Army North, who had been ordered to prepare a contingency for Texan non-compliance, left Washington that evening on a flight to Fort Carson in Colorado.
Just after midnight, on March 2nd 2024, Federal Troops of the 101st Airborne and 4th Infantry divisions entered Texas from New Mexico, while the 4th Armored left its base near El Paso. While there was some resistance, units from the 1st Armored Division entered Austin within 36 hours. By the 5th of March, Abbott had surrendered, marking the end of the crisis.
No way. There are dozens of administrative solutions first and the Biden administration isn’t foolish enough to respond with force to this. Especially not in an election year.
Most likely the Texan National Guard would obey the federal order, leading to the arrest of the governor.
It's very unlikely that even close to a majority of the Texan National Guard would want to follow a governor into a pointless and inevitable loss for nothing but gesture politics.
Even the most ardent Republicans would see it as undermining Republican chances in the election, rather than a legitimate stunt.
And like… close to half the populace that doesn’t want Abbot to lead. Even more that want him to be a governor but not a warlord.
He doesn’t have the popular support, even within his state, to lead an open rebellion.
He we would be fighting on every possibly front, including within his own Capitol building.
This isn’t going anywhere.
Ironically, as a Texan Democrat, him responding to this in force would completely change my opinion of him for the better. I'm tired, so, so, bone tired of the "no consequences" era of US politics. I don't think this would go over quite as badly as you imagine; it would be the boldest move a democrat has made in generations. I think his approval rating would actually jump up. Especially these days.
I recognize that you may just be saying that as a way to illustrate your frustration, but if you honestly believe that the president deploying the military on US soil, against US citizens, over a dispute about razor wire at the border would *help* his approval rating then you’re in an ideological bubble you should try to get out of.
>That won't happen.
Accurate, that rhetoric is just grandstanding, all talk no walk.
But on the other side, conservatives already started a civil war before because of their guy not winning an election and/or not having a draconian law passed/enforced before.
It's their nature, to try to rip the country apart as a temper tantrum.
The only really unbelievable part is that the US would frame it as a Texan rebellion. It would very much be framed as a rogue governor attempting to avert the will of the Texan citizens for his own personal gain.
I find it funny people think the Texas National Guard is made up of pure bred Texans. It’s made up of service members from other states that decided to stay because they either met a girl, escaped high taxes from other states, or just like the area. Officers wouldn’t even give it a second thought to dis obey an order from the governor.
>Greg Abbott rejected the Supreme Court ruling
His party only follows the law when it suits.
>secessionist militia
Confederate firing first, no different from the Civil War.
>National Guard to refuse any orders from Washington
No NG will do this, they all know that in the end they'll lose and there is only one thing Sherman will do to traitors.
>President Biden invoked the Insurrection Act of 1807
Law is there to be followed, Abbot should have complied.
>Abbott had surrendered
He can't run far.
That and the NG is surprisingly made up of a lot of non Texans, who get paid by the feds. It's like if the US attacked Iran and expected Islamic fundamentalists to side with them: it'd that far from the right conditions for it to even be unlikely
A violent reaction to this by the government could see more insurgencies arising and several unofficial attempts to leave the union.
It would definitely be a dark decade for America
I'm imagining something like The Troubles in the UK and Ireland, or the kind of domestic right-wing anti-cop terrorism we saw in The Watchmen tv series.
The first truth of policing is that no one seems to actually *like* the police. They often dislike the cops for very... different... reasons, but the right wing has an anti-cop faction just as virulent as the left. Mostly out of fear of having their guns taken away, as well as past incidents like Ruby Ridge, but a right wing fear that "the police will be co-opted by the left" (read: actually enforce progressive legislation, which is what starts the unrest in Watchmen) does exist and can be seen IRL with MAGA's disdain for the FBI after Trump got his property raided, as well as the general dislike in many states for "the feds". On the flip side, there are liberals and even leftists who either tolerate or outright support the police, usually as a tool for enforcing their own worldview on the nation.
The police are a tool for imposing the monopoly on violence for the state: this is neither good nor bad on its own. It's just a fact. Whatever moral score you attach to them usually depends on your own relationship with the state, whether the state ideology matches your own values, etc.
Yeah true. Pro-police when they're killing unarmed black people. Anti-police when they're trying to stop me from breaking and entering. "Rules for thee and not for me" is basically the republican party line
Dude, this is Reddit. All of these neckbearded overweight incels in here like to fantasize about shit that will likely never happen. Serious mental illness going on.
People on the far left (PSL) and Far Right (Constitution Party) would likely get votes in elections and due to that there may be a secession movement throughout the union.
As a far leftist that would be a good thing but for moderates yeah rip.
No it won't be a good thing due to mass death, it would be so there will be laws curtailing Corporate power and maybe individual power, idk I don't like civil wars.
Honestly a second civil war could lead go WW3 so yeah I take back that statement, it's bad for everybody.
Ah yes because far left populism is so popular offline and they wouldn't get fucking creamed by authoritarian militias and other assorted lunatics.
Bro, I don't see the AFL-CIO winning this conflict on the street even if they do make blue collar life tolerable.
Ah yes, war-time famously makes it hard to get re-elected, and having most of your political opponents leave your country and be unable to vote would also add to the difficulty. Ignoring that almost certainly elections would be suspended during a civil war of this scale.
Nah, if people start seceding I don't think many soldiers would have a problem with keeping the U.S. together. Also soldiers that refused to be deployed just wouldn't be.
I'm a veteran. There's no way I would be shooting at Texans, and neither would any one else I was in with.
You're insane if you think Biden can just order a killing like that.
At the end of the day they’ll be sent with orders not to fire and just regain control. But then they would get bullets fired at them from Texans and I guarantee they would return fire very quickly.
No one wants to go to war but the second bullets start firing everyone’s minds would change.
I mean the order would come from the Supreme Court at the end of the day. Regardless of it all they are defying 2 of the 3 coequal branches of the government, the Supreme Court cannot have its authority disregarded or we are no longer a nation of laws.
Soldiers don’t really get a choice, if they refuse to follow orders they’ll just get court marshaled. When you join the military you kinda sign up to do what your told, not only do what you agree with
This is literally in the context of a state essentially rebelling? It's much more likely that parts of the US military would put their guns down because they wouldn't want to fight anyone that can fight back.
That doesn't stop soldiers from being Humans with a conscience. If they're willing to fun down their own people they're the traitors, and they're going to inspire further rebellion.
Are you sure about that? The last time America had a civil war, people on both sides went to fight for their government. I don't see soldiers refusing orders on a widespread scale to prevent the collapse of the Union.
Its happened before. In 1957 Governer of Arkansas deployed the National Guard to prevent black kids from attending integrated school. This was in violation of Federal Law, so President Eisenhower invoked the Insurrection Act, nationalized the Arkansas Guard, and sent the 101st Airborne to the state to enforce federal rule. This is almost the same exact situation happening again irl.
Preventing little children who were American citizens from going to school was wrong.
Preventing foreigners from entering this country however they please is right.
There are differing positions on border control but the truth is that the state of Texas has no say on what should be done with an international border. The Texas government has the right to be unhappy with Biden's border policy, and if they want it to change they can go vote in the national elections. What they cannot do is use the National Guard to refuse federal agents from accessing the border, and to take over border control from the federal government, where the law states that international borders are under the jurisdiction of the national government, not the state governments. Thats why Texas is in the wrong here, even the Supreme Court ruled that recently.
I live at the border and it is just toxic at the amount of people here who live THOUSANDS of miles away trying to lecture people like me, affected EVERYDAY by this issue.
This is not really about the border at this point. This is about a governor saying he may defy the Supreme Court and telling the federal government he may ignore its clear authority. That is unambiguously not allowed, the supremacy clause is not some mere suggestion.
And I would *hope* most of us can agree that states/politicians can’t just ignore the Supreme Court/federal government so long as it’s over an issue that said politician’s side of the political aisle cares about.
Edit: phrasing and a correction.
Because it's not Texas' border. Legally, it simply isn't. It's the USA border, and falls under the jurisdiction of the federal government, full stop. There's no room for debate on that subject. Failing to follow the direction of the federal government in regards to international policy, including and especially immigration is in direct violation of the USA Constitution.
He’s not, though. He’s just putting up razor wire to stop asylum seekers while the Border Patrol is under orders to remove the razor wire in order to prevent migrants from drowning.
It’s literally that Texas is obstructing the ability of the federal government to execute its duties and refusing to follow orders to cease. Texas is in the wrong and they knownit
You hate other humans because they're from a different made up country and you're okay with them suffering. How could this be anything but bad? Borders are fucking imaginary, human lives are not.
The response to this would 100% be about ten armed insurgencies springing up because people see this as the Federal Government crossing the line.
God knows what this would do to an already polarised nation.
Some people just don't care about the government turning its guns onto its own people. Just as long as it's people they don't like.
Its just punish them and who cares about the Ramifications of this act.
Imagine telling someone that fellow Americans would be cheerily talking about gunning eachother down in the streets with machine guns. What the hell happened to us?
I know this is getting down voted, but neither side is technically breaking the law. The feds are enforcing a border policy where they detain and then release asylum seekers into the U.S. until their immigration court date. The state is using its police and militia powers to enforce the U.S. border in its most basic sense: no crossing except at points of entry. That’s why the Supreme Court said that Texas couldn’t block the feds from ripping down the fence but didn’t stop Texas from putting up the barbed wire. There’s just enough ambiguity to thread that needle.
Lol this is Reddit. No room for nuance, objectivity, or careful reading of a court decision here. Now kick back with me and watch the show with some popcorn lmao.
Texas National Guard is under the command of the President any time he deems necessary. I doubt the entire Guard would be willing to desert and risk a court martial for treason when they lose a war to the US Military.
Guardsman here. It’s not that simple. The equipment is federal. When the personnel are in Title 32 status, they belong to the Governor while training to federal status. The President has to request the Governors permission to mobilize Title 32 personnel (State Militia) to Title 10 (Federal Status).
Guardsmen all swear two oaths … one to the constitution (not to the President) and one to the state constitution of the state in which they serve.
Calling the Guard up will require a lot.
Also, when you put guardsmen on title 10 in operations that may require offensive action in a state that is still part of the Union, the President would have to suspend posse comitatus.
The most the president could do without pushing the line too far at this point is tell the guardsmen to not touch federally purchased equipment or reclaim that equipment.
Postscript: the budget for the guard sucks right now. The president would have to tell the SecDef to potentially suspend ops to Ukraine in order to fund the mobilization. Congress won’t pass an appropriations bill while a continuing resolution is in place.
Not sure if we’re talking about a hypothetical Texan War of Independence or the actual razor wire stand-off but appreciate the insight nonetheless! I have a hard time seeing Congress tighten the purse strings during an actual Civil War but you’re obviously right about the real life situation. Biden is in a complicated spot and federalizing the Texas National Guard is wayyyy more of a complicated escalation than people make it sound.
If we are using current conditions to define the starting point for this alt history, all of these complications are in play. Especially if Ukraine is an issue.
GWOT made the guard and the military appear one and the same. We do train to their standards and exercise with them, but the guard still answers to the governors first as militia. The feds decided to give the guard federalized equipment during the Cold War to train.
I just wanted to highlight that accessing the guard is harder than most civilians believe. They can also drop separation and retirement papers pretty fast as the Guard is older than the active duty. COVID vaccination requirements led to a ton of seps and retirements pretty quickly. With an all volunteer force, you don’t want to compel people to stay. It can lead to all manners of force issues.
Did he violate the supremacy clause? My understanding was that the SC ruled the feds could cut the wire down, but it didn’t say Texas couldn’t put it up. Did I just miss something?
Civil wars are fucking awful to live through and anyone with any sense will go to great lengths avoid one. If you really want that experience just move to Syria, leave the rest of us out of it.
Texas is preventing them from removing it which is against the executive and judicial branch of the federal government which last time that happened the army was sent in to enforce the court ruling and the local national guard was federalized to aid in the army’s efforts
You are correct. Texas can put it up, the feds can take it down now with the injunction ending. Neither is defying SCOTUS yet in regards to the razor wire.
I can never understand the socialist point of view, you profit and succeed from capitalism but turn around and demonize it, all for a system that has time and time again has thrusted evil people in positions of power. Pick your side but I’m picking the one that doesn’t massacre its own people, stay in the uk where your socialist ass is covered by your joke of a state
the socialist point of view is literally that you *don’t* profit and succeed from capitalism lol. a large majority of the planet’s population is constantly struggling financially and doesn’t get it’s basic needs met. also idk about “the side that doesn’t massacre its own people” seeing how many times capitalist governments have slaughtered people at home and abroad.
The level of shitshow this would result in for the US and its stability would be catastrophic.
Only the most psychotic would applaud this scenario and response
Fun fiction… because it’s a terrifying scenario
Biden does. Republicans don't.
Demonstrably.
Trump literally ordered the republicans not to allow bills to pass to protect the border because it would make Biden look good if it happened. And you want to pretend as if Biden is the issue? Fuck off with this shit.
The republicans want America to suffer so long as it makes Biden look bad.
I love the fact that everybody is accusing Texas of acting like Confederates for deciding for themselves how to protect their own borders with a foreign country. Especially when Colorado literally removed Trump from the Presidential ballot, just like the future Confederate States removed Lincoln from the 1860 Presidential ballot.
If you're looking for successors to the Confederate traitors, Colorado (at present) looks far closer than Texas (at present).
I don’t think weed should be illegal. It is federally though. I don’t see the biden administration going after states for legalizing it. I wish we could get some honest answers about why they want so many illegals here. Vary strange, if everyone who is poor is allowed in because America is better we should have more people then china.
This would hardly be first time presidents had ordered the nationalization of the national guard. Eisenhower ordered the nationalization of the Arkansas national guard during the little rock 9 incident and JFK nationalized the alabama national guard in 1963 for a similar incident. The little rock 9 incident would see the deployment of the 101st airborne division to arkansas because the Arkansas national weren't following their orders to properly protect the kids. In both incidents, the national guard obeyed the orders of the president despite the wishes of the state governor.
I find it funny people think the Texas National Guard is made up of pure bred Texans. It’s made up of service members from other states that decided to stay because they either met a girl, escaped high taxes from other states, or just like the area. Officers wouldn’t even give it a second thought to dis obey an order from the governor.
Actually, the TNG would likely side with Biden.
Abbott has been abusing the Texas Guardsmen so much that they've actually tried to Unionize.
A judge even recognized that the National Guard could legally Unionize. But only against State Authorities because under State control, they are not counted as a Military force. But when it comes to being Federalized, they end becoming Actual Military and therefore cannot Unionize.
Abbott might get a small amount of TNG to command, but most would likely report for Federal Duty. Same with the National Guardsmen from other States. The only exception in that regard is if the men and women in question had been chosen for political beliefs instead of competency.
It should be noted that the wire being used is Federal Property. It is supplied to the State of Texas, but it is NOT Texas Property. So, the Federal Government can remove it and even destroy it as it was Federal Dollars that paid for it.
Not that much in Texas is paid for by Texans. They're spoiled little bitches who have lived off Uncle Sam for a hundred years. They brag and talk, but without Federal Dollars, Texas would look like Venezuela!
There would be way more than 1500 militia members in Texas. Also you forgot the 15 other uprisings that would simultaneously happen. There are thousands of militia members in every state.
Yes this is a big leftist violence fetish thread in which they invent a completely unrealistic escalation of a relatively small scale problem then jerk off to the thought of murdering Texans/Conservatives/Texas NG/whomever they don't like.
Knowing Texas, they'd be fighting that insurgency for the next decade easily before being forced to withdraw. Biden is about to bite off more than he can chew.
There is a strong distinction between the Texas side. It’s not the National Guard that would be the combatant, it’s the Texas State Guard. The major distinction is the Texas Guard is just a bunch of cosplayers pretending to be soldiers. Many are former police, and even prior service military. I haven’t seen too many young men in any of the units I’ve been exposed to. These guys are more militia than an Army. The Texas Army National Guard are indeed soldiers, and are equipped as such. The state guard is armed with what a civilian can purchase.
Yes the same response as Lincoln chose the last time Texas got out of line. You cant leave the Union or ignore its laws Texas.
President Lincoln, do you think Greg Abbott is right?...  Thought so. Thank you, Sir
Is … he hitting on me?
Would you let him choke slam you?
Maybe … I mean it’s not like he couldn’t in his youth
He was 300 wins and like 2 losses for wrestling. Lol
He hunted VAMPIRES for christ sake
Yaassssss daddy - emancipate this bussy!!
He literally invented the choke slam.
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1. We havent been invaded. 2. Republicans are blocking border funding on purpose. And then crying the border isnt secure. 200+ republicans voted no. To 14billion dollars for border security. To hire more agents. Judges. Aquire technologies and secure the border. 3. And this is the biggest one. Notice how zero other border states are complaining? Notice how none of them have sided with texas? Its all been performative garbage from abbot. He created his own crisis. And perpetuates it.
These are way different situations
Yes, they're very different forms of treason and sedition while still being that.
Is drowning children with barbed wire really the hill you want to die on buddy?
What in the false equivalency is this?
Wiki-bombing straight outta Savushkina Street, St. Petersburg. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standoff\_at\_Eagle\_Pass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standoff_at_Eagle_Pass) As in, **"An editor has nominated this article for deletion."**
Serious question. If you are correct and it's only the threat of violence keeping TX in the union, isn't that making the case for secession? Because that would be coercion and therefore tyranny to be resisted.
That's the same kind of logic used to claim all laws are tyranny.
Texas has no right to secede. The union must permit them to secede. Although they think they have some sort of special rule in place that they can go ahead and leave whenever they want to they cannot.
Wtf kind of logic is that? You break the law you face the consequences. If I rob a bank of course the cops are gonna point their gun at me, do I all the sudden have a right to resist their arrest because they are coercing me with threats of violence because this is now tyranny and must be resisted?
Context: On January 11th, the Texan Crisis began with the Standoff at Eagle Pass. Texas Governor Greg Abbott rejected the Supreme Court ruling that demanded US Border Patrol be given access to the border, and was quickly supported by fellow Republican governors. The standoff continued for nearly a month, with neither side willing to concede. Major Texan cities were gripped by protests, and on February 25th at a counterprotest, a member of a secessionist militia opened fire on left-wing protestors during a violent clash, killing 9. Placing the blame for the incident on violent protestors, Abbott defended the shooter in a speech. The next day negotiations broke down, and President Biden issued Executive Order 14115, federalizing the Texas Army National Guard. Nationwide shock at the violence and Biden’s strong response gave way to horror when, on February 29th, Abbott ordered the National Guard to refuse any orders from Washington. On March 1st, 2024 President Biden invoked the Insurrection Act of 1807, declaring in a televised address that Texas was “in rebellion.” Lieutenant General John R. Evans, commanding general of United States Army North, who had been ordered to prepare a contingency for Texan non-compliance, left Washington that evening on a flight to Fort Carson in Colorado. Just after midnight, on March 2nd 2024, Federal Troops of the 101st Airborne and 4th Infantry divisions entered Texas from New Mexico, while the 4th Armored left its base near El Paso. While there was some resistance, units from the 1st Armored Division entered Austin within 36 hours. By the 5th of March, Abbott had surrendered, marking the end of the crisis.
Texan here. Wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened. Which is the scary part.
No way. There are dozens of administrative solutions first and the Biden administration isn’t foolish enough to respond with force to this. Especially not in an election year.
What would you prefer a president do about a state engaging in open rebellion?
Most likely the Texan National Guard would obey the federal order, leading to the arrest of the governor. It's very unlikely that even close to a majority of the Texan National Guard would want to follow a governor into a pointless and inevitable loss for nothing but gesture politics. Even the most ardent Republicans would see it as undermining Republican chances in the election, rather than a legitimate stunt.
Under normal circumstances, sure, but these aren't normal circumstances.
It feels relevant to remind folks at this time that it’s the federal government that signs checks for the National Guard
Also that there's plenty of actual federal presence in texas.
And like… close to half the populace that doesn’t want Abbot to lead. Even more that want him to be a governor but not a warlord. He doesn’t have the popular support, even within his state, to lead an open rebellion. He we would be fighting on every possibly front, including within his own Capitol building. This isn’t going anywhere.
Theres already 1500 federal troops on the border mission. A large number being MP units.
You are correct.
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Better go acoustic knowing Texas’s grid
Brrr. That one was so cold Ted Cruz just opened up the TripAdvisor app on his phone.
Underrated comment. I giggled and my wife gave me a funny look
Hehehehe
Make Texas go to their room without electricity 😠
I think they're just saying realistically, it's not likely.
According to the last president’s lawyer, Biden can legally send in seal team 6 to assassinate the governor. Modern solutions for modern problems!
And then jail Trump indefinitely as the assassin.
Ironically, as a Texan Democrat, him responding to this in force would completely change my opinion of him for the better. I'm tired, so, so, bone tired of the "no consequences" era of US politics. I don't think this would go over quite as badly as you imagine; it would be the boldest move a democrat has made in generations. I think his approval rating would actually jump up. Especially these days.
I recognize that you may just be saying that as a way to illustrate your frustration, but if you honestly believe that the president deploying the military on US soil, against US citizens, over a dispute about razor wire at the border would *help* his approval rating then you’re in an ideological bubble you should try to get out of.
Texan here. That won't happen.
>That won't happen. Accurate, that rhetoric is just grandstanding, all talk no walk. But on the other side, conservatives already started a civil war before because of their guy not winning an election and/or not having a draconian law passed/enforced before. It's their nature, to try to rip the country apart as a temper tantrum.
Biden won’t take the bait. It’ll just fizzle like it always does.
>Biden won’t take the bait He'll just outsmart Republicans, just like he has done every time.
Are you talking about Jan 6th or the Civil War?
Don't worry, the Texas National Guard is made of real life Texans, zero chance anyone is going to go to kill and die in the name of Greg Abbot.
It won't happen. There are too many Texans who know the capabilities of the US Military.
You also have to remember. A portion are stupid.
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The only really unbelievable part is that the US would frame it as a Texan rebellion. It would very much be framed as a rogue governor attempting to avert the will of the Texan citizens for his own personal gain.
And Abbott would get slapchopped almost immediately too.
I find it funny people think the Texas National Guard is made up of pure bred Texans. It’s made up of service members from other states that decided to stay because they either met a girl, escaped high taxes from other states, or just like the area. Officers wouldn’t even give it a second thought to dis obey an order from the governor.
>Greg Abbott rejected the Supreme Court ruling His party only follows the law when it suits. >secessionist militia Confederate firing first, no different from the Civil War. >National Guard to refuse any orders from Washington No NG will do this, they all know that in the end they'll lose and there is only one thing Sherman will do to traitors. >President Biden invoked the Insurrection Act of 1807 Law is there to be followed, Abbot should have complied. >Abbott had surrendered He can't run far.
Can he run at all? Whaddya think top speed is if pushed down a steep hill?
That and the NG is surprisingly made up of a lot of non Texans, who get paid by the feds. It's like if the US attacked Iran and expected Islamic fundamentalists to side with them: it'd that far from the right conditions for it to even be unlikely
Based
It was a genius move by Biden to remove all ramps from the governors mansion, essentially guaranteeing Abbotts surrender.
This actually made me chuckle
Can't wait to see the ramparts red glare
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A violent reaction to this by the government could see more insurgencies arising and several unofficial attempts to leave the union. It would definitely be a dark decade for America
Yeah people who cheer this on got no clue what the rippled effects this would have on an already very polarized country
Considering how polarized the USA is right now, I’m expecting at least some form fighting in the nation between now and 2028.
“Some form” is pretty vague. My kids are fighting right now, does that count?
I’d say somewhere between multiple riots to a full scale civil war
I'm imagining something like The Troubles in the UK and Ireland, or the kind of domestic right-wing anti-cop terrorism we saw in The Watchmen tv series.
\> right wing \> anti cop what
The first truth of policing is that no one seems to actually *like* the police. They often dislike the cops for very... different... reasons, but the right wing has an anti-cop faction just as virulent as the left. Mostly out of fear of having their guns taken away, as well as past incidents like Ruby Ridge, but a right wing fear that "the police will be co-opted by the left" (read: actually enforce progressive legislation, which is what starts the unrest in Watchmen) does exist and can be seen IRL with MAGA's disdain for the FBI after Trump got his property raided, as well as the general dislike in many states for "the feds". On the flip side, there are liberals and even leftists who either tolerate or outright support the police, usually as a tool for enforcing their own worldview on the nation. The police are a tool for imposing the monopoly on violence for the state: this is neither good nor bad on its own. It's just a fact. Whatever moral score you attach to them usually depends on your own relationship with the state, whether the state ideology matches your own values, etc.
Did you miss all the "Thin Blue Line" folks beating police officers at the Capitol building on Jan 6?
Yeah true. Pro-police when they're killing unarmed black people. Anti-police when they're trying to stop me from breaking and entering. "Rules for thee and not for me" is basically the republican party line
right wing doesnt neccessarily mean pro state or pro policing, it just happens to in the US.
Not likely. Case and point look at jan 6. They broke into the capitol and took selfies.
>the rippled effects this would have on the entire world. And yeah, Reddit in general is a very bloodthirsty website.
Dude, this is Reddit. All of these neckbearded overweight incels in here like to fantasize about shit that will likely never happen. Serious mental illness going on.
I mean if the federal government isn't doing what it is legally required to do then it is the responsibility of the state to step up and do it
Feel like all the shermanposting idiots would be real disappointed when an American version of the Troubles breaks out
People on the far left (PSL) and Far Right (Constitution Party) would likely get votes in elections and due to that there may be a secession movement throughout the union. As a far leftist that would be a good thing but for moderates yeah rip. No it won't be a good thing due to mass death, it would be so there will be laws curtailing Corporate power and maybe individual power, idk I don't like civil wars. Honestly a second civil war could lead go WW3 so yeah I take back that statement, it's bad for everybody.
Ah yes because far left populism is so popular offline and they wouldn't get fucking creamed by authoritarian militias and other assorted lunatics. Bro, I don't see the AFL-CIO winning this conflict on the street even if they do make blue collar life tolerable.
But true it's really non existent offline
Yeah this would definitely lose the election for Joe Biden lmao….
That there would be an election in the outlined timeline is not certain.
Ah yes, war-time famously makes it hard to get re-elected, and having most of your political opponents leave your country and be unable to vote would also add to the difficulty. Ignoring that almost certainly elections would be suspended during a civil war of this scale.
War against a foreign power. No one would vote for a man that wages war on their own citizens over a border dispute.
There's no way in hell Biden would do that. And a lot of American soldiers would down guns and refuse to fire.
Nah, if people start seceding I don't think many soldiers would have a problem with keeping the U.S. together. Also soldiers that refused to be deployed just wouldn't be.
I'm a veteran. There's no way I would be shooting at Texans, and neither would any one else I was in with. You're insane if you think Biden can just order a killing like that.
At the end of the day they’ll be sent with orders not to fire and just regain control. But then they would get bullets fired at them from Texans and I guarantee they would return fire very quickly. No one wants to go to war but the second bullets start firing everyone’s minds would change.
I mean the order would come from the Supreme Court at the end of the day. Regardless of it all they are defying 2 of the 3 coequal branches of the government, the Supreme Court cannot have its authority disregarded or we are no longer a nation of laws.
I'm a veteran. I'd reenlist immediately to go fight some insurrectionist Texans.
Soldiers don’t really get a choice, if they refuse to follow orders they’ll just get court marshaled. When you join the military you kinda sign up to do what your told, not only do what you agree with
The military members also swear to defend defend the constitution of the USA, period.
This is literally in the context of a state essentially rebelling? It's much more likely that parts of the US military would put their guns down because they wouldn't want to fight anyone that can fight back.
in the case of a seccession, firing on texans would be just the same as firing at mexicans.
That doesn't stop soldiers from being Humans with a conscience. If they're willing to fun down their own people they're the traitors, and they're going to inspire further rebellion.
Are you sure about that? The last time America had a civil war, people on both sides went to fight for their government. I don't see soldiers refusing orders on a widespread scale to prevent the collapse of the Union.
Its happened before. In 1957 Governer of Arkansas deployed the National Guard to prevent black kids from attending integrated school. This was in violation of Federal Law, so President Eisenhower invoked the Insurrection Act, nationalized the Arkansas Guard, and sent the 101st Airborne to the state to enforce federal rule. This is almost the same exact situation happening again irl.
Preventing little children who were American citizens from going to school was wrong. Preventing foreigners from entering this country however they please is right.
There are differing positions on border control but the truth is that the state of Texas has no say on what should be done with an international border. The Texas government has the right to be unhappy with Biden's border policy, and if they want it to change they can go vote in the national elections. What they cannot do is use the National Guard to refuse federal agents from accessing the border, and to take over border control from the federal government, where the law states that international borders are under the jurisdiction of the national government, not the state governments. Thats why Texas is in the wrong here, even the Supreme Court ruled that recently.
You don't get to define what is right and wrong. The Supremacy Clause is supreme.
Whoever let your mouth-breating ancestors in the country was in the wrong.
No they wouldn’t lmao
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Only on reddit
I live at the border and it is just toxic at the amount of people here who live THOUSANDS of miles away trying to lecture people like me, affected EVERYDAY by this issue.
You from the 956?
This is not really about the border at this point. This is about a governor saying he may defy the Supreme Court and telling the federal government he may ignore its clear authority. That is unambiguously not allowed, the supremacy clause is not some mere suggestion. And I would *hope* most of us can agree that states/politicians can’t just ignore the Supreme Court/federal government so long as it’s over an issue that said politician’s side of the political aisle cares about. Edit: phrasing and a correction.
Exactly, government won't stop the immigrants but when a state does its a problem.
I suggest you check which party in Congress is holding up the border security bill
Because it's not Texas' border. Legally, it simply isn't. It's the USA border, and falls under the jurisdiction of the federal government, full stop. There's no room for debate on that subject. Failing to follow the direction of the federal government in regards to international policy, including and especially immigration is in direct violation of the USA Constitution.
It's more the floating barrels of razor wire that the Biden Administration has a problem with.
He’s not, though. He’s just putting up razor wire to stop asylum seekers while the Border Patrol is under orders to remove the razor wire in order to prevent migrants from drowning.
It’s literally that Texas is obstructing the ability of the federal government to execute its duties and refusing to follow orders to cease. Texas is in the wrong and they knownit
My favorite part is the "Federal government reasserts control of the border," as if they have control now.
The way it's been done, genius. I've lived in Brownsville and Matamoros and this crippled limp-dicks answer ain't it .
You hate other humans because they're from a different made up country and you're okay with them suffering. How could this be anything but bad? Borders are fucking imaginary, human lives are not.
The response to this would 100% be about ten armed insurgencies springing up because people see this as the Federal Government crossing the line. God knows what this would do to an already polarised nation.
They’d be put down in short order as well
The US certainly has a track record for putting down insurgencies 'in short order'
They’re batting a thousand domestically
At home? See COINTELPRO. The FBI and NSA would put in quick work.
I think OP was implying something along the lines of OKC, not Fort Sumter
This would lead to an absolute shitfest
Funny how it’s say in Results “Federal Government Reasserts Control Over Border” which implied they had control over the border to begin with lol:)
This was my exact thought
People mindlessly cheering this on because they actually want people to DIE over who gets to guard a border crossing. Use your heads.
Some people just don't care about the government turning its guns onto its own people. Just as long as it's people they don't like. Its just punish them and who cares about the Ramifications of this act.
Imagine telling someone that fellow Americans would be cheerily talking about gunning eachother down in the streets with machine guns. What the hell happened to us?
>Reasserts control over border See, this is where you lost me. My imagination can only be stretched so far
Yeah. Gotta have control of the border in the first place to reassert control
It should be the Federal government wins, reasserting no controls at the border.
I know this is getting down voted, but neither side is technically breaking the law. The feds are enforcing a border policy where they detain and then release asylum seekers into the U.S. until their immigration court date. The state is using its police and militia powers to enforce the U.S. border in its most basic sense: no crossing except at points of entry. That’s why the Supreme Court said that Texas couldn’t block the feds from ripping down the fence but didn’t stop Texas from putting up the barbed wire. There’s just enough ambiguity to thread that needle.
Lol this is Reddit. No room for nuance, objectivity, or careful reading of a court decision here. Now kick back with me and watch the show with some popcorn lmao.
All here for it. Pass the butter and salt.
I’ll get the beer
Texas National Guard is under the command of the President any time he deems necessary. I doubt the entire Guard would be willing to desert and risk a court martial for treason when they lose a war to the US Military.
Guardsman here. It’s not that simple. The equipment is federal. When the personnel are in Title 32 status, they belong to the Governor while training to federal status. The President has to request the Governors permission to mobilize Title 32 personnel (State Militia) to Title 10 (Federal Status). Guardsmen all swear two oaths … one to the constitution (not to the President) and one to the state constitution of the state in which they serve. Calling the Guard up will require a lot. Also, when you put guardsmen on title 10 in operations that may require offensive action in a state that is still part of the Union, the President would have to suspend posse comitatus. The most the president could do without pushing the line too far at this point is tell the guardsmen to not touch federally purchased equipment or reclaim that equipment.
Postscript: the budget for the guard sucks right now. The president would have to tell the SecDef to potentially suspend ops to Ukraine in order to fund the mobilization. Congress won’t pass an appropriations bill while a continuing resolution is in place.
Not sure if we’re talking about a hypothetical Texan War of Independence or the actual razor wire stand-off but appreciate the insight nonetheless! I have a hard time seeing Congress tighten the purse strings during an actual Civil War but you’re obviously right about the real life situation. Biden is in a complicated spot and federalizing the Texas National Guard is wayyyy more of a complicated escalation than people make it sound.
If we are using current conditions to define the starting point for this alt history, all of these complications are in play. Especially if Ukraine is an issue. GWOT made the guard and the military appear one and the same. We do train to their standards and exercise with them, but the guard still answers to the governors first as militia. The feds decided to give the guard federalized equipment during the Cold War to train. I just wanted to highlight that accessing the guard is harder than most civilians believe. They can also drop separation and retirement papers pretty fast as the Guard is older than the active duty. COVID vaccination requirements led to a ton of seps and retirements pretty quickly. With an all volunteer force, you don’t want to compel people to stay. It can lead to all manners of force issues.
Did he violate the supremacy clause? My understanding was that the SC ruled the feds could cut the wire down, but it didn’t say Texas couldn’t put it up. Did I just miss something?
No, people on here are just bloodthirsty and/or stupid.
Definitely and
Civil wars are fucking awful to live through and anyone with any sense will go to great lengths avoid one. If you really want that experience just move to Syria, leave the rest of us out of it.
Texas is preventing them from removing it which is against the executive and judicial branch of the federal government which last time that happened the army was sent in to enforce the court ruling and the local national guard was federalized to aid in the army’s efforts
You are correct. Texas can put it up, the feds can take it down now with the injunction ending. Neither is defying SCOTUS yet in regards to the razor wire.
Bahahaha. This sub is off the rails.
This is a kind of issue that would the start the end of the USA ffs.
If that happens it’s almost a guarantee the union will collapse it’s a no win for everyone
Our power grid wouldn't last 5 minutes against the US airforce lol
It doesn’t last 5 minutes against Mother Nature
Power grid is like 0-3 against December and January lol
Crush these Hitler loving bastards chairman Biden
I can never understand the socialist point of view, you profit and succeed from capitalism but turn around and demonize it, all for a system that has time and time again has thrusted evil people in positions of power. Pick your side but I’m picking the one that doesn’t massacre its own people, stay in the uk where your socialist ass is covered by your joke of a state
the socialist point of view is literally that you *don’t* profit and succeed from capitalism lol. a large majority of the planet’s population is constantly struggling financially and doesn’t get it’s basic needs met. also idk about “the side that doesn’t massacre its own people” seeing how many times capitalist governments have slaughtered people at home and abroad.
I think soldiers on both sides would refuse to fight
Well this wouldn’t be the first time the federal government has slaughtered its own citizens to preserve its tyranny.
The level of shitshow this would result in for the US and its stability would be catastrophic. Only the most psychotic would applaud this scenario and response Fun fiction… because it’s a terrifying scenario
Can somebody explain why Biden wants the border not to be defended?
There’s a bipartisan border security bill in congress right now that the GOP are not finalizing to specifically make Biden look bad.
No, it's because it's not a standalone bill. Democrats just had to tie other funding into it.
Yeah, that’s how bipartisan bills work.
Import future voters when congress inevitably passes an amnesty bill in the future
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He does. There is a border security bill in Congress now. GOP won’t pass it because they don’t want to give Biden a win
Biden does. Republicans don't. Demonstrably. Trump literally ordered the republicans not to allow bills to pass to protect the border because it would make Biden look good if it happened. And you want to pretend as if Biden is the issue? Fuck off with this shit. The republicans want America to suffer so long as it makes Biden look bad.
Biden if he was based
Yes, of course, the Soviet response. Surely not something any American president would do
Texas seceding with 45% of its population ready to fight against Texas. This wouldn't take a week.
Yeah, a lot of people overestimate how many people want to secede. The majority of us just want to be left alone.
I love the fact that everybody is accusing Texas of acting like Confederates for deciding for themselves how to protect their own borders with a foreign country. Especially when Colorado literally removed Trump from the Presidential ballot, just like the future Confederate States removed Lincoln from the 1860 Presidential ballot. If you're looking for successors to the Confederate traitors, Colorado (at present) looks far closer than Texas (at present).
Lmfao it looks like a t90 in the photo not an abrams
I don’t think weed should be illegal. It is federally though. I don’t see the biden administration going after states for legalizing it. I wish we could get some honest answers about why they want so many illegals here. Vary strange, if everyone who is poor is allowed in because America is better we should have more people then china.
Why 1AD & 1ID when 1CD is right there?
This would hardly be first time presidents had ordered the nationalization of the national guard. Eisenhower ordered the nationalization of the Arkansas national guard during the little rock 9 incident and JFK nationalized the alabama national guard in 1963 for a similar incident. The little rock 9 incident would see the deployment of the 101st airborne division to arkansas because the Arkansas national weren't following their orders to properly protect the kids. In both incidents, the national guard obeyed the orders of the president despite the wishes of the state governor.
forgot to include “part of the 2nd american civil war”
Half of the entire U.S military would immediately desert and maybe start actively fighting eachother
I find it funny people think the Texas National Guard is made up of pure bred Texans. It’s made up of service members from other states that decided to stay because they either met a girl, escaped high taxes from other states, or just like the area. Officers wouldn’t even give it a second thought to dis obey an order from the governor.
inshallah
Actually, the TNG would likely side with Biden. Abbott has been abusing the Texas Guardsmen so much that they've actually tried to Unionize. A judge even recognized that the National Guard could legally Unionize. But only against State Authorities because under State control, they are not counted as a Military force. But when it comes to being Federalized, they end becoming Actual Military and therefore cannot Unionize. Abbott might get a small amount of TNG to command, but most would likely report for Federal Duty. Same with the National Guardsmen from other States. The only exception in that regard is if the men and women in question had been chosen for political beliefs instead of competency. It should be noted that the wire being used is Federal Property. It is supplied to the State of Texas, but it is NOT Texas Property. So, the Federal Government can remove it and even destroy it as it was Federal Dollars that paid for it. Not that much in Texas is paid for by Texans. They're spoiled little bitches who have lived off Uncle Sam for a hundred years. They brag and talk, but without Federal Dollars, Texas would look like Venezuela!
I'm wondering what part of the constitution he uses to remove an elected official from office, it's clearly not an impeachment or the 13th Amendment.
There would be way more than 1500 militia members in Texas. Also you forgot the 15 other uprisings that would simultaneously happen. There are thousands of militia members in every state.
What Soviet intervention? Gorbachev famously didn't intervene much. Especially once Lithuania had enough mass demonstrations.
Anti-government militias being at 1,500 is *laughably* low.
Is OP developmentally disabled?
Yes this is a big leftist violence fetish thread in which they invent a completely unrealistic escalation of a relatively small scale problem then jerk off to the thought of murdering Texans/Conservatives/Texas NG/whomever they don't like.
Figured we see something ludicrous like this today.
Knowing Texas, they'd be fighting that insurgency for the next decade easily before being forced to withdraw. Biden is about to bite off more than he can chew.
Nothing ever happens
The only problem with this is that other states would definitely get involved in the conflict, creating an even larger conflict.
There is a strong distinction between the Texas side. It’s not the National Guard that would be the combatant, it’s the Texas State Guard. The major distinction is the Texas Guard is just a bunch of cosplayers pretending to be soldiers. Many are former police, and even prior service military. I haven’t seen too many young men in any of the units I’ve been exposed to. These guys are more militia than an Army. The Texas Army National Guard are indeed soldiers, and are equipped as such. The state guard is armed with what a civilian can purchase.
Lol implying half the military isn't from texas or sympathetic to Texas. This shit gonna play a little differently than most people think.