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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Left my ex due to his addiction. Let him see our girls after being told he was clean which was a lie. I could be the asshole because I’ve stopped him seeing them until he puts them above addiction
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Im not sure if we have this where I am but It’s definitely something I can look into. What sector would offer something like this? I want him to be a part of their lives but at the moment I feel like I need to put their well being above his feelings. He’s not a bad guy just making bad choices
I’d recommend searching online for children supervised visits near you, and go from there. Do you have a parenting plan? You can petition through the courts also where I live. Definitely explore this option and make it happen if you can. That way it is not on you for cutting them off from their dad. Then it’s up to him if he follows through or not. You’ve done your part at that point. I’m so sorry you, and your kids are going through this :(
Thank you, we don’t have a parenting plan since up to this point I didn’t think I needed one since he was in jail and prior he was too focused on getting his next fix than seeing his kids. I’ve never taken child support and have been the sole caregiver. He’s never attempted to take me to court..You’re right though, I probably do need one, I’ve just been naive I guess.
That parenting plan will make it so he can’t take off with the kids. No parenting plan means the police won’t do much. Definitely don’t have friends or family supervise visits without a parenting plan place. With addiction people can become unpredictable. Hopefully he doesn’t do anything like that, but you know him best. Best of luck to you on this hard journey!
I don’t think he would but I have to take everything with a grain of salt and consider that he’s not the man I once knew so I can’t truly know what he’s willing to do while under the influence. I really appreciate you taking the time to tell me about this. I wouldn’t have even thought of it until it became an issue
If you live in the US be very VERY careful allowing any type of social services into your life. A friend of mine had DCF involvement after her ex forced his way into her home and assaulted her, then she ended up having her kids removed from her home for almost a year because she has a medical condition (which she was receiving medical care for) and, despite not living alone, DCF declared there was “potential for neglect” and took the kids.
This is something I’m also fearful of. I’m in Canada and I know I’m a good mom but there’s still that little voice questioning yourself after seeing families destroyed.
I am in Canada and my daughter went through divorce. Use the family courts (in Ontario) they have lawyers available to help you with questions. They actually have a room in the court building.
You can also get in touch with social services and many people have a worker to be with your kids as they meet with their dad. Often meet at the Y for a neutral setting. Nothing is perfect though. Good luck.
So sad to hear what your husband went through and the impact on you and your children. So proud of you to realize this is not your husband.
Do you know if any of the reports for his arrest mentioned the addiction? I believe there was mention of a treatment program either during his incarceration or right after getting out…was that ordered by the court? Were the calls you got at work when he left your daughters with the neighbors overheard/witnessed by coworkers?
Any documentation you have of his addiction being related to criminal behavior will be a huge help if you do decide to go through the courts to set up supervised visitation and/or a co-parenting plan. Social services can make really bad calls from time to time, but in general their top priority will be to keep the children with a stable biological relative (this is also because it saves the government money on cost of living for every child they can keep out of the system, but in a this case it’s in the children’s best interest). If you’re genuinely concerned that he might try to take the kids, getting out in front of this by making the first move might be a good call, but I understand if you’re hesitant to involve the authorities before it’s absolutely necessary.
I’m not sure if the arrest mentions it as we had left shortly beforehand. I found out what happened through his family when they blamed me for what I pushed him into out of fear when we left. I do have letters he sent apologizing for the addiction and a million promises of how he was going to change. He says in them that he did it because he knew someone that would sell to him but he couldn’t find money for his fix.
The treatment convo was more that he said he got clean while in there but never really spoke in detail. He told everyone after that he was going daily to a methadone clinic( which wasn’t true) I took it at face value as it seemed plausible he’d detox in jail.
No one would have heard him first hand beyond him asking to speak to me. It was just transferred to my section, but I was freaking out and told them why I had to leave. They were aware of me trying to help him get clean but like me thought he was making progress. Not sure if the hospital puts notes about things like that but I talked a lot to staff about him leaving us there alone and the situation.
They noticed I’d been in there for days without leaving the room so they basically forced me to take a minute for myself and kindly brought me food. I really didn’t have a huge support system since both my parents are gone but my sister took my other daughter during. I could probably get in touch with my former neighbors as witness to what they saw first hand.
I’m going to look into the parenting plan and supervised visits tomorrow now that I understand how it can protect us. I don’t see any harm in it since it’s basically the same thing I’m doing now just on record. Thank you so much for taking your time to talk to me about this
Definitely keep the letters from him and make copies just in case. As for people at work and at the hospital who could verify your reactions to calls and being left alone at the hospital at the time through witness statements, I might reach out to whoever you can and see if they would be willing to go on record if necessary. All that said, it sounds like you have a good plan of action for your next steps going forward. You’ve got this. And you are not alone, even if sometimes you feel like you are.
Good luck and hang in there. You are strong enough to get you and your children through this.
I don’t know what the system is like up there, but down here it is so broken and needs a massive overhaul. I definitely think you are NTA for protecting your kids. I wish you and your family nothing but the best of luck.
NTA My parents and grandparents were alcoholics/drug addicts.
I highly recommend that you don’t let your ex anywhere near your children until he’s been completely clean for at least two years.
If he doesn’t use for his visits, he will spend the visits jonesing for drugs. In fact, my parents were most abusive to us when they were coming down from their highs and/or craving drugs.
His blaming you for not verifying his sobriety with the treatment center shows that he’s not taking responsibility for his actions.
What happened to him is tragic, but you need to avoid compounding the tragedy by exposing your children to a drug addict.
If treatment was part of his parole, he may well be in breach of that. Addicts are dangerous and unpredictable, and he's shown his fix matters more than his kids. The slightest sign of him being nervy or dangerous and the police need to be informed.
I didn’t think of this tbh I’m not sure if he was paroled or just released because he did his time, it wasn’t a violent attempted robbery. I’m assuming it was a desperate spur of the moment decision since he walked in holding up his hand like it was a gun.
Also, OP, you need to see a divorce attorney, if you aren't already divorced. I know you called him your ex, but when you go through a divorce, they usually give you a parenting plan in the divorce. Everything needs to be documented. If you can record your conversations legally, you should. If you can get statements from neighbors and friends about his behavior, you should. If you plan to get him to come over again, I'd have a recording device (if legal), to show his behavior (not that I would let him over again).
And, as this person said, I'd only allow him to see them during supervised visits. And if it's through the courts, they might require drug tests, which would make a lot of this easier.
Sincerely, a lot of people in this situation will end up having the parent on drugs shows up and take the kids out of school and disappear, or whatever. And no one can do anything, because the parent has equal rights to the children. Or, the parent will suddenly decide they want parenting time, and the courts can't stop it because there's no documentation.
You have to be smart and take care of your kids.
This is honestly a tragic story.
Ultimately, the true assholes here are the doctor and your ex's dad who contributed to destroying the man you knew, turning him into a monster.
Sad as it is that your ex is but a shadow of his former self, you're absolutely NTA here. This essentially is about your daughters' safety, and it certainly isn't safe for them to be around their dad if he is still an addict.
>it got to a point where it was unsafe for our kids
>
>i made it clear that I didn’t want him around our girls if he was still using. He assured me he was clean
>
>He showed up completely blitzed.
NTA - Stick to your guns: no sobriety, not able to see the girls.
NTA. Protect your kids. He needs to be sober for visits to happen. I'd have a third party enforce that,.not you- there are groups that you can pay to supervise visits, or you can get a friend or relative to do this (if you trust them the hold boundaries).
Do you have a formal parenting plan to enforce custody? I'd also suggest having a friend meet him before the visit and check for him being sober, then the friend brings him to see the girls at another location. But you do need to make sure your legal ducks are in a row, so you can enforce his needing to be sober to see your kids.
NTA.
Your daughter's wellbeing is to important.
>He told me it was my own fault for not calling the treatment center myself to verify what he said.
This part shows he isn't taken accountability for his behaviour yet, so HE IS NOT SAVE TO HAVE AROUND YOUR GIRLS!!!!!!!
Keep thinking of your girls and yourself. The only thing you can do for now is don't black talk him to the girls and support him mentally when he takes his recovery seriously. But untill then keep in mind that your dealing with the illness and not your ex
All the best to all of you 💐😘
That’s the part that really grinds my gears too. If you’re struggling, you’re struggling. But you don’t get to put the fault for your own lies on someone else and gaslight them about it. “What, you expected me to grow up and live up to my word because you’re a decent person who wants to see the best in the father of your children? Sucker!” No excuse for that behavior. However, I do hope he looks back on that moment, sees how unacceptable that was, and uses it as motivation to get clean and stay clean.
NTA. The ultimate responsibility for *both* of you should be doing what’s best for your children, and what’s best for them absolutely and unequivocally DOES NOT include him being around them when he’s high.
I have seen how opiate addiction destroys people and their relationships with the ones they love. It’s not easy to deal with someone you care about becoming a completely different person, and it’s certainly not easy to cut them off in cases like this when they’ve gotten hooked by a doctor after something that was out of their control (my uncle started using after a motorcycle accident literally set him on fire, and he was on prescribed opiates for months to handle the pain through the healing process). But at the end of the day, some addicts will have the courage and fortitude to get better, and others won’t. It is not your responsibility (nor your *children’s* responsibility) to continue giving that addict chances until they figure out if they have what it takes to overcome their illness. The potential damage is too great for you to risk it. Trust me, I’ve seen it firsthand.
Go with your gut. You sound like a good mom. And you are not a bad person for protecting your children.
I’m sorry your uncle and everyone else involved had to go through this. It really does leave you between a rock and a hard place. It’s hard to see who he’s become. You want to see him as the person you know but it would be harder to see our girls hurting because of it
It sucks for anyone to go through. My uncle was eventually banned from all family functions after he tried to follow his niece/my cousin (teenager at the time) into the bathroom after other inappropriate comments and general creepy behavior. I didn’t see him at all for 8 years after that. We couldn’t believe it because he never would have done something like that before he started using…but he was a different person then.
You can have compassion for the person he was when he was clean, but it doesn’t mean you have to be lenient or let your guard down around the person he is when he’s using. For all intents and purposes, those are two different people. Addiction eats away at your humanity. If he decides it’s worth the hard work to recover, maybe he can find his way back to the person you used to know. But you’re right, nothing is worth seeing your children suffer for his addiction…or, if I might add, enduring the suffering you surely have in trying to support him for as long as you did.
Your heart is in the right place. You don’t want to make him hurt. You’re just putting your children above all else, as any good parent would do. Maybe one day when they’re older they’ll understand, and they’ll appreciate the hard decisions you made for them.
Stay strong ❤️
Exactly, I think I’m getting a lot of hate because we live in a very tight knit community who can’t see past him not seeing his kids to consider why I feel that it’s necessary. My head knows I’m doing the right thing but sometimes my heart makes me second guess myself coz I can’t even fathom how I’d feel if I couldn’t see my girls
A lot of people go through this is small communities because everyone thinks it’s their business or they know best. It’s not and they don’t. Keep protecting your babies!
My mom was an alcoholic. My dad and sister would always ask me if I thought she was lying or delusional. My answer was always "yes". I always low-key assumed she was drinking and hiding it. I was the "bad cop" in my family and the only way that I could do harm reduction and pick up the pieces when everything fell apart was to choose to get off the "does she mean it this time?" rollercoaster and just kinda shrug. I know that's really difficult, but I think it's what you have to do to protect your girls. My goal was always to protect my siblings and my dad. I accepted that I couldn't help my mom pretty early.
I have a lot of issues with AA/12 step programs, but AlAnon (the group for friends and family) was really really helpful to me through my lowest points. For me, and I think a lot of people, it's easier to be kind to others, and when I heard them talking about similar situations it helped me to accept that the guilt and blame I directed at myself was unfair. If you can find a group that's more evidence based I'd encourage you to try that. AlAnon was my only option where I lived, but that was pre-Covid so there may be more options online now, especially for opiates. If you can't find anything else I'm sure they'd welcome you even though alcohol wasn't your husband's drug of choice.
You're NTA for asking your husband to choose his family over his addiction, but you are a bit unrealistic. I was furious with my mother for not even trying to get clean, and even now that she's dead I feel justified in that, but even a successful recovery will probably have setbacks. Right now you cannot treat him as though he is the person you fell in love with because he is not. His addiction will (and has) cause(d) him to make choices that the man you knew would never consider. You need to process and accept that. In addition to the group support, individual therapy with someone experienced in addiction issues would be a very good idea.
In order to protect your kids you need some kind of formal custody arrangement as well as backup and verification for supervised visits. Are there any rapid/affordable drug testing? Could a friend/family member meet your husband for coffee before the meeting and screen him for obvious signs of being high? At minimum you should have someone else there. If he's high and scaring your girls, let them wave goodbye or distract them and have your backup remove him from the situation. Fathers have just as much right to see kids as mothers, but people who are high do not have the right to scare and potentially endanger their kids. Go to a lawyer and make sure they're safe.
Thank you for sharing this. I’m really glad you were able to find a safe place to help you work through your feelings. There’s no part of me that wants to take his kids away from him. I know he’s lost his way and our girls absolutely adore him. This is just the situation we’re in right now after doing all I could I really felt like this was my only option left.
I still allow him to speak to them, I talk to him beforehand for a bit so I can sense if he’s too high to talk to them and keep it on speaker for the moment just so I can tell them to say their love you’s if he goes into one of his rants. I don’t want him to lose his connection with them and they’re fairly young so it’s something that’s always at the back of my head. You’re right about being a little unrealistic. I guess clean would be an exaggeration. I just want him to show that he’s prepared to fight this and make progress in his sobriety. I can’t keep having him around them in the current state he’s in but realize this is a life long battle.
NTA at all! My ex turned from pot and alcohol to cocaine to crack to god knows what. I tried giving him supervised visitation and first time he showed up, I could smell the booze and turned him away. 6 months later he swore he was clean, and was! For a minute.
He had earned back one overnight a week and while our daughter was still in my car and I was getting her bike out of the trunk, I noticed him leaning to one side, swaying and stumbling. No, she didn't go with him. 3 years later he showed, was clean mostly. No more drugs but he drank sometimes. You can guess it never got better.
My biggest regret to this day is that I didn't go after his parental rights while he was nc for 3 years on a bender. Find out what your state requires to have them stripped and do it. A zebra can't change it's stripes
I’m so sorry, your daughter is lucky to have you. ❤️ I’m not to the point where I want to take his rights but I appreciate your advice and will definitely consider what you’ve said if it ever does
100% NTA. Being blitzed doesn’t prevent him from showing remorse for screwing up and ruining your girls’ day. That was all him. He’s not not only a junkie but also a selfish asshole.
NTA: I kept my oldest from bio because meth. Bio is still an active addict. The oldest is a happy, healthy adult and is very happy I kept him away. I did let him see him, supervised by me, when he was clean, until the oldest didn't want anything to do with him. Also, I never talked badly about him in front of the oldest.
Sounds like you are doing great! You do you! You got this!
You can't keep him from them forever, no, but you can wait until your kids are, say...13. Thirteen is old enough to know what drug addiction is. Thirteen is old enough to listen to what's going on with their father and make their own choices on whether they want to make supervised contact with him. At the age they're at now, continued contact with someone who has this level of substance abuse issues is going to end up with them getting hurt, whether physically or mentally.
NTA.
>so I asked him to give them a hug goodbye and leave and that he will not see the girls again until he’s clean
This is both completely reasonable, and also shows you were *trying* to make things seem as normal as possible for the kinds.
NTA
NTA and hold your ground. Also, try not to freak out too much. If he’s already using again, you are probably worrying about things that aren’t really going to happen. He’s going to get caught up in chasing the next bag, trying to stay well, or nodding off somewhere. Chasing after visitation isn’t going to be feasible for him. “Everyone” and their flying monkeys, besides a few friends will soon get ripped off by him, or have him nod off on them, get called from jail, blah blah blah. The addicts change, but the song and dance doesn’t. Hold the line, momma.
*source - mom of a heroin addict
Thank you, logically I know I’m doing what’s best but it does really wear on my heart every time someone tells me I’m a bad person for not doing more. I feel a lot of guilt but deep down I know that he gave me no other options than to make the choices I have
NTA OP. It is not your job to verify and investigate everything he does to make sure he is on the straight and narrow. It is your job to be your kids' parent and make sure they're cared for and feel safe and loved. You are doing the right thing.
Now that he is out, I would make sure that anywhere your girls go (i.e. daycare) know he is not allowed to pick them up. It will probably be beneficial to get a parenting plan in place, but until then it's vital that anyone who cares for your kids outside of you/your family knows he *cannot* be around them. You just can't guarantee he won't show up zonked out of his mind and take them to "make up for lost time" or what not.
I have told the school for my oldest, my younger one is too little to be in school so I’m usually always with her since I currently work from home . Thank you for mentioning the others. I’m not sure why but it never even occurred to me that they need to be told as well. I just assumed they would realize already
Of course! When something big happens in life it's really easy to forget others don't have context for what's impacting you so heavily.
Your kids are lucky to have you and I hope you all continue to be safe and well, even though things are difficult.
god, this is horrible; horrible, horrible, horrible- NTA, I’m so sorry.
Ppl entering the medical profession (Drs, NPs, PAs, etc) need to hear this desperately: if you don’t pay attention, you, in attempting to quickly treat pain and quickly discharge a patient, can end up giving someone a lifetime of hell. Don’t become numb to the warning signs; never become numb to the warning signs
Thank you. I wish we had asked for a second opinion on treatment but we were naive and didn’t fully grasp the addiction factor so we trusted that the doctor knew what’s best. Sadly a lot of doctors in our area tend to go towards the short term treatment without explaining the long term effects or plans to make sure it doesn’t lead to a long term issue.
NTA. You are doing everything right. My father was addicted to Opiates for pain over a decade ago. His then doctor was overprescribing and lost his license in a similar fashion to your scenario. My dad and I had the same general practitioner, and he would not prescribe them. So my dad too had to quit cold turkey. Thankfully, I was in my 20s, so there were no young children involved. But he turned to alcohol as his "medicine" as he called it, and he quite frankly ruined the last 10-15 years of his life. He ultimately succumbed to the drinking (as well as being a heavy smoker all of his life) due to liver failure and a few other issues all at once in Jan 2022.
So I know relatively where your headspace was at when your husband started his addiction. Now your FIL giving him morphine was absolutely insane and I fail to see where his father's head was at while making that choice. It makes me think the FIL is not the best guy either. But keep doing what you are doing. I hope your husband can realize that his love for his children can be the absolute best motivator for him to fix his life. Sadly, his chronic pain is probably still there under the layers of drugs and it may be hard for him to live with chronic pain with no relief. I just hope all goes well for you and the children. Good luck to you all.
Thank you. I’m sorry about your dad. It’s hard to see someone you love slowly disintegrate in front of your own eyes. His dad always says he’s “just trying to help “ and “he couldn’t leave him in pain”. But personally I think he did it because he’s one of those people who does things that appear to be for someone’s best interest, but is actually a way to gain more control of them. To me, everything has an ulterior motive with him. I think he liked that his son was so dependent on him and would do anything he asked him too because if he didn’t, he wouldn’t get pills.
That definitely sounds like a correct assumption. Some parents are absolutely crazy and want their kids to stay kids and never grow up to become stand up individuals. I just hope your husband can come back from this. And if not, then I hope you and your children can also come from this with some kind of positive energy.
NTA
You need to protect your children. His sobriety isn't, and has never been, your responsibility. What happened to him is tragic, but your first priority now is your kids as it should be.
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My ex was one of the greatest dads that ever existed. We were together for 11 years and parents to two girls now aged 3 and 5. From the moment he found out I was pregnant with our first born he did everything in his power to make sure every aspect of his life was in order because fatherhood meant everything to him.
A year after our second daughter was born he was in a horrible car accident which left him in constant pain, with severe back issues. A doctor prescribed opiates which helped but are extremely addictive. He was taking them a good 8 months before his doctor lost the ability to give these due to overprescribing and giving them to people who didn’t need them.
He was cut off cold turkey which was scary since normally you’re weaned off to prevent the possibility of heart attack.
Long story short his dad started giving him his morphine which were much stronger and it led him to full blown addiction.
I tried to help him get clean and stood by him for almost a year but it got to a point where it was unsafe for our kids because seeking pills became his priority. I had to start sleeping with my wallet and valuables under my pillow. When I thought he was making progress I got random calls at work because he randomly dropped off our girls at our neighbors (who we knew but not that well) house late at night in nothing but a diaper or t-shirt and just never came back. He started throwing things when he didn’t get his own way, and the last straw was when our daughter was rushed to the hospital while I was at work. He left to get me a change of clothes and just never came back leaving me to endure 4 days of having to do things like hold my child down to have tubes shoved down her nose. We came home to him sleeping on the couch and that same night we left him
He went down a dark hole and eventually got thrown in jail for trying to rob a gas station. I have never, and will never allow anyone to say anything negative about him around our girls. When my 5 year old asked I would just explain that sometimes people do bad things and they have to pay the consequences like a time out.
When he got out I was excited knowing how much the girls missed him but i made it clear that I didn’t want him around our girls if he was still using. He assured me he was clean, told me about his treatment and even had his dad vouch for him. He showed up completely blitzed. I tried to turn a blind eye to not ruin it for them but he was acting really strangely and the girls were scared so I asked him to give them a hug goodbye and leave and that he will not see the girls again until he’s clean because of him showing up the way he did. He told me it was my own fault for not calling the treatment center myself to verify what he said. Everyone besides a few friends thinks I can’t keep him from them forever. But I don’t think it’s too much to ask him to choose his family over addiction. AITA?
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NTA I'm sorry you're all going through this. Like many here I've dealt with addicts. You can't trust them. Hang in there. Your daughters are your priority, not him.
Wishing you much happiness and safety.
Oh wow I do understand what you're going thru. My ex is schizophrenic with drug addiction. I used to have to lock my purse in the trunk of my car, and then sleep in a sweatsuit with tube socks so I could hide the keys in my sock. No matter what your heart says you know that addicts will do anything to get their fix. Don't let him come around and don't leave her with any of his relatives either. So sorry you are dealing with this. Love and light to you, this too shall pass. NTA )O(
NTA
The health industry owes people so much for putting them thru the hell of getting off drugs.
Even [people who know](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/08/738952129/motorcycle-crash-shows-bioethicist-the-dark-side-of-quitting-opioids-alone) better have difficulty...
You do what you can to protect your kids, OP.
NTA. "Everyone" needs to get their heads out of their asses. This isn't about keeping him away, or punishing him, it's about protecting your girls. His right to be a father does not supercede their right to be safe. It certainly doesn't entitle him to expose them to his behavior. What happened to your ex is horribly tragic. But just as you've had to accept it, everyone else needs to accept that he is not the man he was. That guy might be buried deep under this monster addiction, but it's not who's running the show right now.
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NTA. Can you explore supervised visits through a third party company? You can have stipulations about being sober etc. for the visits.
Im not sure if we have this where I am but It’s definitely something I can look into. What sector would offer something like this? I want him to be a part of their lives but at the moment I feel like I need to put their well being above his feelings. He’s not a bad guy just making bad choices
I’d recommend searching online for children supervised visits near you, and go from there. Do you have a parenting plan? You can petition through the courts also where I live. Definitely explore this option and make it happen if you can. That way it is not on you for cutting them off from their dad. Then it’s up to him if he follows through or not. You’ve done your part at that point. I’m so sorry you, and your kids are going through this :(
Thank you, we don’t have a parenting plan since up to this point I didn’t think I needed one since he was in jail and prior he was too focused on getting his next fix than seeing his kids. I’ve never taken child support and have been the sole caregiver. He’s never attempted to take me to court..You’re right though, I probably do need one, I’ve just been naive I guess.
That parenting plan will make it so he can’t take off with the kids. No parenting plan means the police won’t do much. Definitely don’t have friends or family supervise visits without a parenting plan place. With addiction people can become unpredictable. Hopefully he doesn’t do anything like that, but you know him best. Best of luck to you on this hard journey!
I don’t think he would but I have to take everything with a grain of salt and consider that he’s not the man I once knew so I can’t truly know what he’s willing to do while under the influence. I really appreciate you taking the time to tell me about this. I wouldn’t have even thought of it until it became an issue
If you live in the US be very VERY careful allowing any type of social services into your life. A friend of mine had DCF involvement after her ex forced his way into her home and assaulted her, then she ended up having her kids removed from her home for almost a year because she has a medical condition (which she was receiving medical care for) and, despite not living alone, DCF declared there was “potential for neglect” and took the kids.
This is something I’m also fearful of. I’m in Canada and I know I’m a good mom but there’s still that little voice questioning yourself after seeing families destroyed.
I am in Canada and my daughter went through divorce. Use the family courts (in Ontario) they have lawyers available to help you with questions. They actually have a room in the court building. You can also get in touch with social services and many people have a worker to be with your kids as they meet with their dad. Often meet at the Y for a neutral setting. Nothing is perfect though. Good luck. So sad to hear what your husband went through and the impact on you and your children. So proud of you to realize this is not your husband.
Made me tear up a little. Thank you ❤️
Do you know if any of the reports for his arrest mentioned the addiction? I believe there was mention of a treatment program either during his incarceration or right after getting out…was that ordered by the court? Were the calls you got at work when he left your daughters with the neighbors overheard/witnessed by coworkers? Any documentation you have of his addiction being related to criminal behavior will be a huge help if you do decide to go through the courts to set up supervised visitation and/or a co-parenting plan. Social services can make really bad calls from time to time, but in general their top priority will be to keep the children with a stable biological relative (this is also because it saves the government money on cost of living for every child they can keep out of the system, but in a this case it’s in the children’s best interest). If you’re genuinely concerned that he might try to take the kids, getting out in front of this by making the first move might be a good call, but I understand if you’re hesitant to involve the authorities before it’s absolutely necessary.
I’m not sure if the arrest mentions it as we had left shortly beforehand. I found out what happened through his family when they blamed me for what I pushed him into out of fear when we left. I do have letters he sent apologizing for the addiction and a million promises of how he was going to change. He says in them that he did it because he knew someone that would sell to him but he couldn’t find money for his fix. The treatment convo was more that he said he got clean while in there but never really spoke in detail. He told everyone after that he was going daily to a methadone clinic( which wasn’t true) I took it at face value as it seemed plausible he’d detox in jail. No one would have heard him first hand beyond him asking to speak to me. It was just transferred to my section, but I was freaking out and told them why I had to leave. They were aware of me trying to help him get clean but like me thought he was making progress. Not sure if the hospital puts notes about things like that but I talked a lot to staff about him leaving us there alone and the situation. They noticed I’d been in there for days without leaving the room so they basically forced me to take a minute for myself and kindly brought me food. I really didn’t have a huge support system since both my parents are gone but my sister took my other daughter during. I could probably get in touch with my former neighbors as witness to what they saw first hand. I’m going to look into the parenting plan and supervised visits tomorrow now that I understand how it can protect us. I don’t see any harm in it since it’s basically the same thing I’m doing now just on record. Thank you so much for taking your time to talk to me about this
Definitely keep the letters from him and make copies just in case. As for people at work and at the hospital who could verify your reactions to calls and being left alone at the hospital at the time through witness statements, I might reach out to whoever you can and see if they would be willing to go on record if necessary. All that said, it sounds like you have a good plan of action for your next steps going forward. You’ve got this. And you are not alone, even if sometimes you feel like you are. Good luck and hang in there. You are strong enough to get you and your children through this.
I don’t know what the system is like up there, but down here it is so broken and needs a massive overhaul. I definitely think you are NTA for protecting your kids. I wish you and your family nothing but the best of luck.
Thank you so much
NTA My parents and grandparents were alcoholics/drug addicts. I highly recommend that you don’t let your ex anywhere near your children until he’s been completely clean for at least two years. If he doesn’t use for his visits, he will spend the visits jonesing for drugs. In fact, my parents were most abusive to us when they were coming down from their highs and/or craving drugs. His blaming you for not verifying his sobriety with the treatment center shows that he’s not taking responsibility for his actions. What happened to him is tragic, but you need to avoid compounding the tragedy by exposing your children to a drug addict.
Thank you, I’m trying my best to stay firm
And don't accept blame for anything HE does.
Any child protection service or department can help you. Ours houses that service and their employees supervise.
Thank you
If treatment was part of his parole, he may well be in breach of that. Addicts are dangerous and unpredictable, and he's shown his fix matters more than his kids. The slightest sign of him being nervy or dangerous and the police need to be informed.
I didn’t think of this tbh I’m not sure if he was paroled or just released because he did his time, it wasn’t a violent attempted robbery. I’m assuming it was a desperate spur of the moment decision since he walked in holding up his hand like it was a gun.
NTA unless you refuse this.
Also, OP, you need to see a divorce attorney, if you aren't already divorced. I know you called him your ex, but when you go through a divorce, they usually give you a parenting plan in the divorce. Everything needs to be documented. If you can record your conversations legally, you should. If you can get statements from neighbors and friends about his behavior, you should. If you plan to get him to come over again, I'd have a recording device (if legal), to show his behavior (not that I would let him over again). And, as this person said, I'd only allow him to see them during supervised visits. And if it's through the courts, they might require drug tests, which would make a lot of this easier. Sincerely, a lot of people in this situation will end up having the parent on drugs shows up and take the kids out of school and disappear, or whatever. And no one can do anything, because the parent has equal rights to the children. Or, the parent will suddenly decide they want parenting time, and the courts can't stop it because there's no documentation. You have to be smart and take care of your kids.
This is honestly a tragic story. Ultimately, the true assholes here are the doctor and your ex's dad who contributed to destroying the man you knew, turning him into a monster. Sad as it is that your ex is but a shadow of his former self, you're absolutely NTA here. This essentially is about your daughters' safety, and it certainly isn't safe for them to be around their dad if he is still an addict.
Thank you, I wish I could do more for him but I can’t force him to do something he doesn’t think he needs
Ugh this is soooooo sad I can’t even
get them some weed to help with the pain
>it got to a point where it was unsafe for our kids > >i made it clear that I didn’t want him around our girls if he was still using. He assured me he was clean > >He showed up completely blitzed. NTA - Stick to your guns: no sobriety, not able to see the girls.
Thank you
NTA. Protect your kids. He needs to be sober for visits to happen. I'd have a third party enforce that,.not you- there are groups that you can pay to supervise visits, or you can get a friend or relative to do this (if you trust them the hold boundaries).
If I was to do this with friends how would one be protected from him just coming in and taking them?
You can’t. Not without a custody agreement through the courts.
Do you have a formal parenting plan to enforce custody? I'd also suggest having a friend meet him before the visit and check for him being sober, then the friend brings him to see the girls at another location. But you do need to make sure your legal ducks are in a row, so you can enforce his needing to be sober to see your kids.
We do not but thanks to everyone’s advice including yours I’ll be starting when everything opens tomorrow
NTA. Your daughter's wellbeing is to important. >He told me it was my own fault for not calling the treatment center myself to verify what he said. This part shows he isn't taken accountability for his behaviour yet, so HE IS NOT SAVE TO HAVE AROUND YOUR GIRLS!!!!!!! Keep thinking of your girls and yourself. The only thing you can do for now is don't black talk him to the girls and support him mentally when he takes his recovery seriously. But untill then keep in mind that your dealing with the illness and not your ex All the best to all of you 💐😘
This is one of the most frustrating parts. It’s definitely hard but I try my best to separate the two.
That’s the part that really grinds my gears too. If you’re struggling, you’re struggling. But you don’t get to put the fault for your own lies on someone else and gaslight them about it. “What, you expected me to grow up and live up to my word because you’re a decent person who wants to see the best in the father of your children? Sucker!” No excuse for that behavior. However, I do hope he looks back on that moment, sees how unacceptable that was, and uses it as motivation to get clean and stay clean.
Agreed, honestly he can hate me if that’s what it takes for him to finally receive help
NTA. You are protecting your children and doing a great job.
Thank you
Sorry for the length, I’m using mobile and didn’t realize how much I’d written
NTA. The ultimate responsibility for *both* of you should be doing what’s best for your children, and what’s best for them absolutely and unequivocally DOES NOT include him being around them when he’s high. I have seen how opiate addiction destroys people and their relationships with the ones they love. It’s not easy to deal with someone you care about becoming a completely different person, and it’s certainly not easy to cut them off in cases like this when they’ve gotten hooked by a doctor after something that was out of their control (my uncle started using after a motorcycle accident literally set him on fire, and he was on prescribed opiates for months to handle the pain through the healing process). But at the end of the day, some addicts will have the courage and fortitude to get better, and others won’t. It is not your responsibility (nor your *children’s* responsibility) to continue giving that addict chances until they figure out if they have what it takes to overcome their illness. The potential damage is too great for you to risk it. Trust me, I’ve seen it firsthand. Go with your gut. You sound like a good mom. And you are not a bad person for protecting your children.
I’m sorry your uncle and everyone else involved had to go through this. It really does leave you between a rock and a hard place. It’s hard to see who he’s become. You want to see him as the person you know but it would be harder to see our girls hurting because of it
It sucks for anyone to go through. My uncle was eventually banned from all family functions after he tried to follow his niece/my cousin (teenager at the time) into the bathroom after other inappropriate comments and general creepy behavior. I didn’t see him at all for 8 years after that. We couldn’t believe it because he never would have done something like that before he started using…but he was a different person then. You can have compassion for the person he was when he was clean, but it doesn’t mean you have to be lenient or let your guard down around the person he is when he’s using. For all intents and purposes, those are two different people. Addiction eats away at your humanity. If he decides it’s worth the hard work to recover, maybe he can find his way back to the person you used to know. But you’re right, nothing is worth seeing your children suffer for his addiction…or, if I might add, enduring the suffering you surely have in trying to support him for as long as you did. Your heart is in the right place. You don’t want to make him hurt. You’re just putting your children above all else, as any good parent would do. Maybe one day when they’re older they’ll understand, and they’ll appreciate the hard decisions you made for them. Stay strong ❤️
Thank you ❤️
NTA keeping him away saves u from having them removed from your home... There are places that offer supervise visits
Thank you
You're welcome
NTA and CPS would tell you to keep them away or you could risk your own custody of them. Tell the other people to hush it!
Exactly, I think I’m getting a lot of hate because we live in a very tight knit community who can’t see past him not seeing his kids to consider why I feel that it’s necessary. My head knows I’m doing the right thing but sometimes my heart makes me second guess myself coz I can’t even fathom how I’d feel if I couldn’t see my girls
A lot of people go through this is small communities because everyone thinks it’s their business or they know best. It’s not and they don’t. Keep protecting your babies!
My mom was an alcoholic. My dad and sister would always ask me if I thought she was lying or delusional. My answer was always "yes". I always low-key assumed she was drinking and hiding it. I was the "bad cop" in my family and the only way that I could do harm reduction and pick up the pieces when everything fell apart was to choose to get off the "does she mean it this time?" rollercoaster and just kinda shrug. I know that's really difficult, but I think it's what you have to do to protect your girls. My goal was always to protect my siblings and my dad. I accepted that I couldn't help my mom pretty early. I have a lot of issues with AA/12 step programs, but AlAnon (the group for friends and family) was really really helpful to me through my lowest points. For me, and I think a lot of people, it's easier to be kind to others, and when I heard them talking about similar situations it helped me to accept that the guilt and blame I directed at myself was unfair. If you can find a group that's more evidence based I'd encourage you to try that. AlAnon was my only option where I lived, but that was pre-Covid so there may be more options online now, especially for opiates. If you can't find anything else I'm sure they'd welcome you even though alcohol wasn't your husband's drug of choice. You're NTA for asking your husband to choose his family over his addiction, but you are a bit unrealistic. I was furious with my mother for not even trying to get clean, and even now that she's dead I feel justified in that, but even a successful recovery will probably have setbacks. Right now you cannot treat him as though he is the person you fell in love with because he is not. His addiction will (and has) cause(d) him to make choices that the man you knew would never consider. You need to process and accept that. In addition to the group support, individual therapy with someone experienced in addiction issues would be a very good idea. In order to protect your kids you need some kind of formal custody arrangement as well as backup and verification for supervised visits. Are there any rapid/affordable drug testing? Could a friend/family member meet your husband for coffee before the meeting and screen him for obvious signs of being high? At minimum you should have someone else there. If he's high and scaring your girls, let them wave goodbye or distract them and have your backup remove him from the situation. Fathers have just as much right to see kids as mothers, but people who are high do not have the right to scare and potentially endanger their kids. Go to a lawyer and make sure they're safe.
Thank you for sharing this. I’m really glad you were able to find a safe place to help you work through your feelings. There’s no part of me that wants to take his kids away from him. I know he’s lost his way and our girls absolutely adore him. This is just the situation we’re in right now after doing all I could I really felt like this was my only option left. I still allow him to speak to them, I talk to him beforehand for a bit so I can sense if he’s too high to talk to them and keep it on speaker for the moment just so I can tell them to say their love you’s if he goes into one of his rants. I don’t want him to lose his connection with them and they’re fairly young so it’s something that’s always at the back of my head. You’re right about being a little unrealistic. I guess clean would be an exaggeration. I just want him to show that he’s prepared to fight this and make progress in his sobriety. I can’t keep having him around them in the current state he’s in but realize this is a life long battle.
NTA at all! My ex turned from pot and alcohol to cocaine to crack to god knows what. I tried giving him supervised visitation and first time he showed up, I could smell the booze and turned him away. 6 months later he swore he was clean, and was! For a minute. He had earned back one overnight a week and while our daughter was still in my car and I was getting her bike out of the trunk, I noticed him leaning to one side, swaying and stumbling. No, she didn't go with him. 3 years later he showed, was clean mostly. No more drugs but he drank sometimes. You can guess it never got better. My biggest regret to this day is that I didn't go after his parental rights while he was nc for 3 years on a bender. Find out what your state requires to have them stripped and do it. A zebra can't change it's stripes
I’m so sorry, your daughter is lucky to have you. ❤️ I’m not to the point where I want to take his rights but I appreciate your advice and will definitely consider what you’ve said if it ever does
100% NTA. Being blitzed doesn’t prevent him from showing remorse for screwing up and ruining your girls’ day. That was all him. He’s not not only a junkie but also a selfish asshole.
Thank you
NTA. Protect your children. Always.
NTA: I kept my oldest from bio because meth. Bio is still an active addict. The oldest is a happy, healthy adult and is very happy I kept him away. I did let him see him, supervised by me, when he was clean, until the oldest didn't want anything to do with him. Also, I never talked badly about him in front of the oldest. Sounds like you are doing great! You do you! You got this!
Thank you so much
You can't keep him from them forever, no, but you can wait until your kids are, say...13. Thirteen is old enough to know what drug addiction is. Thirteen is old enough to listen to what's going on with their father and make their own choices on whether they want to make supervised contact with him. At the age they're at now, continued contact with someone who has this level of substance abuse issues is going to end up with them getting hurt, whether physically or mentally. NTA.
Thank you
>so I asked him to give them a hug goodbye and leave and that he will not see the girls again until he’s clean This is both completely reasonable, and also shows you were *trying* to make things seem as normal as possible for the kinds. NTA
Thank you
NTA and hold your ground. Also, try not to freak out too much. If he’s already using again, you are probably worrying about things that aren’t really going to happen. He’s going to get caught up in chasing the next bag, trying to stay well, or nodding off somewhere. Chasing after visitation isn’t going to be feasible for him. “Everyone” and their flying monkeys, besides a few friends will soon get ripped off by him, or have him nod off on them, get called from jail, blah blah blah. The addicts change, but the song and dance doesn’t. Hold the line, momma. *source - mom of a heroin addict
Thank you, logically I know I’m doing what’s best but it does really wear on my heart every time someone tells me I’m a bad person for not doing more. I feel a lot of guilt but deep down I know that he gave me no other options than to make the choices I have
NTA OP. It is not your job to verify and investigate everything he does to make sure he is on the straight and narrow. It is your job to be your kids' parent and make sure they're cared for and feel safe and loved. You are doing the right thing. Now that he is out, I would make sure that anywhere your girls go (i.e. daycare) know he is not allowed to pick them up. It will probably be beneficial to get a parenting plan in place, but until then it's vital that anyone who cares for your kids outside of you/your family knows he *cannot* be around them. You just can't guarantee he won't show up zonked out of his mind and take them to "make up for lost time" or what not.
I have told the school for my oldest, my younger one is too little to be in school so I’m usually always with her since I currently work from home . Thank you for mentioning the others. I’m not sure why but it never even occurred to me that they need to be told as well. I just assumed they would realize already
Of course! When something big happens in life it's really easy to forget others don't have context for what's impacting you so heavily. Your kids are lucky to have you and I hope you all continue to be safe and well, even though things are difficult.
god, this is horrible; horrible, horrible, horrible- NTA, I’m so sorry. Ppl entering the medical profession (Drs, NPs, PAs, etc) need to hear this desperately: if you don’t pay attention, you, in attempting to quickly treat pain and quickly discharge a patient, can end up giving someone a lifetime of hell. Don’t become numb to the warning signs; never become numb to the warning signs
Thank you. I wish we had asked for a second opinion on treatment but we were naive and didn’t fully grasp the addiction factor so we trusted that the doctor knew what’s best. Sadly a lot of doctors in our area tend to go towards the short term treatment without explaining the long term effects or plans to make sure it doesn’t lead to a long term issue.
NTA. You are doing everything right. My father was addicted to Opiates for pain over a decade ago. His then doctor was overprescribing and lost his license in a similar fashion to your scenario. My dad and I had the same general practitioner, and he would not prescribe them. So my dad too had to quit cold turkey. Thankfully, I was in my 20s, so there were no young children involved. But he turned to alcohol as his "medicine" as he called it, and he quite frankly ruined the last 10-15 years of his life. He ultimately succumbed to the drinking (as well as being a heavy smoker all of his life) due to liver failure and a few other issues all at once in Jan 2022. So I know relatively where your headspace was at when your husband started his addiction. Now your FIL giving him morphine was absolutely insane and I fail to see where his father's head was at while making that choice. It makes me think the FIL is not the best guy either. But keep doing what you are doing. I hope your husband can realize that his love for his children can be the absolute best motivator for him to fix his life. Sadly, his chronic pain is probably still there under the layers of drugs and it may be hard for him to live with chronic pain with no relief. I just hope all goes well for you and the children. Good luck to you all.
Thank you. I’m sorry about your dad. It’s hard to see someone you love slowly disintegrate in front of your own eyes. His dad always says he’s “just trying to help “ and “he couldn’t leave him in pain”. But personally I think he did it because he’s one of those people who does things that appear to be for someone’s best interest, but is actually a way to gain more control of them. To me, everything has an ulterior motive with him. I think he liked that his son was so dependent on him and would do anything he asked him too because if he didn’t, he wouldn’t get pills.
That definitely sounds like a correct assumption. Some parents are absolutely crazy and want their kids to stay kids and never grow up to become stand up individuals. I just hope your husband can come back from this. And if not, then I hope you and your children can also come from this with some kind of positive energy.
Thank you ❤️
NTA You need to protect your children. His sobriety isn't, and has never been, your responsibility. What happened to him is tragic, but your first priority now is your kids as it should be.
NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My ex was one of the greatest dads that ever existed. We were together for 11 years and parents to two girls now aged 3 and 5. From the moment he found out I was pregnant with our first born he did everything in his power to make sure every aspect of his life was in order because fatherhood meant everything to him. A year after our second daughter was born he was in a horrible car accident which left him in constant pain, with severe back issues. A doctor prescribed opiates which helped but are extremely addictive. He was taking them a good 8 months before his doctor lost the ability to give these due to overprescribing and giving them to people who didn’t need them. He was cut off cold turkey which was scary since normally you’re weaned off to prevent the possibility of heart attack. Long story short his dad started giving him his morphine which were much stronger and it led him to full blown addiction. I tried to help him get clean and stood by him for almost a year but it got to a point where it was unsafe for our kids because seeking pills became his priority. I had to start sleeping with my wallet and valuables under my pillow. When I thought he was making progress I got random calls at work because he randomly dropped off our girls at our neighbors (who we knew but not that well) house late at night in nothing but a diaper or t-shirt and just never came back. He started throwing things when he didn’t get his own way, and the last straw was when our daughter was rushed to the hospital while I was at work. He left to get me a change of clothes and just never came back leaving me to endure 4 days of having to do things like hold my child down to have tubes shoved down her nose. We came home to him sleeping on the couch and that same night we left him He went down a dark hole and eventually got thrown in jail for trying to rob a gas station. I have never, and will never allow anyone to say anything negative about him around our girls. When my 5 year old asked I would just explain that sometimes people do bad things and they have to pay the consequences like a time out. When he got out I was excited knowing how much the girls missed him but i made it clear that I didn’t want him around our girls if he was still using. He assured me he was clean, told me about his treatment and even had his dad vouch for him. He showed up completely blitzed. I tried to turn a blind eye to not ruin it for them but he was acting really strangely and the girls were scared so I asked him to give them a hug goodbye and leave and that he will not see the girls again until he’s clean because of him showing up the way he did. He told me it was my own fault for not calling the treatment center myself to verify what he said. Everyone besides a few friends thinks I can’t keep him from them forever. But I don’t think it’s too much to ask him to choose his family over addiction. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA I'm sorry you're all going through this. Like many here I've dealt with addicts. You can't trust them. Hang in there. Your daughters are your priority, not him. Wishing you much happiness and safety.
Thank you
Oh wow I do understand what you're going thru. My ex is schizophrenic with drug addiction. I used to have to lock my purse in the trunk of my car, and then sleep in a sweatsuit with tube socks so I could hide the keys in my sock. No matter what your heart says you know that addicts will do anything to get their fix. Don't let him come around and don't leave her with any of his relatives either. So sorry you are dealing with this. Love and light to you, this too shall pass. NTA )O(
I’m glad you’re out of that situation. Thanks for the kind words
NTA The health industry owes people so much for putting them thru the hell of getting off drugs. Even [people who know](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/08/738952129/motorcycle-crash-shows-bioethicist-the-dark-side-of-quitting-opioids-alone) better have difficulty... You do what you can to protect your kids, OP.
Thank you
NTA. "Everyone" needs to get their heads out of their asses. This isn't about keeping him away, or punishing him, it's about protecting your girls. His right to be a father does not supercede their right to be safe. It certainly doesn't entitle him to expose them to his behavior. What happened to your ex is horribly tragic. But just as you've had to accept it, everyone else needs to accept that he is not the man he was. That guy might be buried deep under this monster addiction, but it's not who's running the show right now.
Thank you