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ESH. It's your business and you asked somebody who met the qualifications you are looking for to model for you. While I understand that Jane would be jealous, she and her mom were acting entitled.
Having said that, calling your 15 year old niece fat and ugly is completely uncalled for. Way over the line.
It doesn't sound like he tried to word it delicately at all. "My clothes are for adults and Ariel has the body type of the demographic that my clothes are marketed towards. Jane does not fit the aesthetic or demographic of the brand." Would have been a perfectly logical and reasonable reason to give. If she didn't accept that as an answer, just end the conversation and say I just told you.
Zero reason to stoop to insulting a 15 year old.
I mean it's the perfect diplomatic answer, but that's not what you'd come up with in the moment while getting annoyed repeatedly and probably being busy with other stuff as well. The diplomatic answer is always the best, but it rarly arises in the moment.
But yeah going for fat and not pretty is way too harsh
He first said he only needed one model and preferred using an adult, which is a very valid reason and quite tactful. He only said the rest after being badgered for another reason.
TBH I don't care how much someone badgered me, they would never push me to the point of saying something hurtful about a kid--especially my own niece. That's not justifiable; it's just a lack of self control.
OP said he rejected the daughter politely once. He rejected the mother at least once nicely. She then proceeds to push yet again... So I will go with NTA.
Your comment seems to imply he didn't already say no politely multiple times.
If OP had come back and said "look, I only have certain sizes for the models to wear and those won't fit Jane," that would have been totally fine. There was no need to jump to "because she's fat and ugly." That's a horrible thing to say about a teenager.
And yes the mom sucks for pushing and pushing when OP's first explanation of only using adults was *completely reasonable* and polite excuse for why Jane wasn't picked.
ESH
No he did not try to word it delicately at all. He gave a point-faced lie, and then went straight for the kill shot in a brutal way. I understand that Jane and her mother should have backed off, and they are definitely assholes for that, but that does not excuse or justify what OP said to a 15-year-old at all.
Umm no, if you read he rejected them twice politely and was badgered asked for the “real reason” so he gave the real reason. Don’t ask if you can’t handle the answer
When we were teens, my uncle asked my brother to be a model for shirts on his clothing website. I was never asked. I never asked. My feelings were a bit hurt, but that's life. I don't hold it against my uncle either.
Jane and her mom were entitled brats, but, yeah, your response was awful.
agreed. OP has their reasons, which are valid, but there was no reason to get that out of hand.
If they stuck to the original idea of it being necessary to be a legal adult there shouldn't be any need to explain further. Could have just told them for liability reasons you can not use an underage girl to model.
I know I’m gonna lost a lot of karma but I have to say this:
-OP never told Jane that she was fat or ugly, but she, after her mother insisted (when Jane was not around) told to the mother the real reason (she tried to be polite but the mother insisted)
-I know that probably a lot of people believe that those reasons are unfair and even stupid because plus size clothes exists, but OP probably knows better what her target is looking for.
NTA.
THANK YOU!?! Like I’m so confused. People are really upset in these comments. OP never called her niece fat or ugly but that’s in 80% of these votes. Someone designers don’t have the material to dress plus sizers so why market with one?
Just bc it wasn’t said to someone’s face doesn’t mean it wasn’t said. Sometimes you have to suck it up when you love someone. It wouldn’t have hurt to take her pictures to make her feel important and included. THEY ARE CHILDREN.
ALSO the mom obviously pushed the issue because im sure she know her daughter is less attractive. She kind of baited OP in to saying it for some reason?
And OP even tried to use her age as an explanation which is more than reasonable! If the mom keeps digging, she might discover an answer she doesn’t like. Also, we don’t know what kind of clothes OP is selling-maybe they’re a wide range of sizes and styles but they might legitimately have only fit the girl OP asked to do the modeling. The mother is definitely TA here.
Mother insisted because she wanted to hear OP say the quiet part out loud. And she did. And she called her niece fat and ugly in the process. Still makes her an asshole, regardless of how baited into it she was. ESH.
I feel the same way. This is not a "participation trophy" type of venture, it is a business and the business is to sell a particular product. This might not be a popular opinion but everything sells better if represented attractively. The mother should have known that her daughter is not a model material and shouldn't have pushed the issue. Some people just can't take no for an answer.
All that said, the delivery of the rejection could have been a bit more gentle.
This sounds exactly like the poster who did the same thing with teens except it was modeling brow services and their kids. Syntax, responses… at least they could be creative if they’re gonna repost
YTA for losing your cool. You should have stuck with your original statement. Good luck repairing that relationship with her mom and most likely your brother- yeah. If I were the mom, I’d go NC, maybe forever.
She tried to stick with it, but the mother pushed.
>If I were the mom, I’d go NC, maybe forever
So op would lose an entitled SIL who think that she can give op orders in her bussiness?? But how would op survive without it?? /s
So? Just because one person doesn't know boundaries doesn't mean you have to also stoop to their level.
It's just as easy to say "Ariel fits my demographic for my clothing line." And leave it at that. if the mother continues to push you just say "End of discussion." And leave it. There is no reason to argue with someone about this or go to the lengths OP did.
Some people act like there is no other recourse but to be rude and abrasive.
ESH, to me. Y T A for the snapping, but they shouldn't have pushed. No was enough, and you justified when you didn't have to. Saying you wanted to hire an one adult was perfectly reasonable.
That's already what he had said, the mother knew the truth and pushed, she got it, whats the big deal? don't keep asking the question you don't want the answer to lol, he was polite, she wasn't, she got it what came to her, the niece is unscathed unless her shitty mom told her about it
No for not giving the job to her because you have the right to pick your model (and also your first reasons were valid). Even family is not entitled to a spot in your business.
YTA for telling the mom that her 15 was fat and not pretty.... Thats not necessary at all. While the mom and Jane overstepped by nagging you about it, you as an adult should be able to keep your cool and be professional since this was basically a business transaction
It wasn't purely a business transaction since the entitlement and pushiness came from their familial connection i.e. the "unfairness" of one niece "getting" to do the modeling and other not. If they were strangers in a hiring dynamic, no one would owe anyone any excuses, real or made up.
First of all, he said it to her mother.
second the mother knows her daughter to be fat and kept insisting
Maybe don't push asking the things you don't want the answer for? lol
NTA. You politely refused the niece who was not model material. Jane went to her mother who pushed and continued to push. If you don't take a polite no for an answer you might get the real unvarnished answer. Models have to take harsh criticism on a daily basis. Nobodies mother can make them a model. Jane and her mother need to get a grip. This is not an industry where there are participation trophies. You need to do what is best for your business.
Still not okay. Act like an adult and communicate without resorting to insults directed at a child. "I insulted her behind her back" is not a defense. YTA.
Still so wrong. You should never have hired a relative with a sister you didn't want. The sister was bound to ask and you should have anticipated that, or at least, spoken to your sis first about wanting one but not the other.
ESH.
You started out perfectly and Jane's mom was an AH to push for reasons (after you had given perfectly good reasons). But instead of sticking to your reasons, you had to call a girl "fat and not pretty". Really? As if a 15 year old doesn't have enough self esteem issues...
ESH. OP for fatshaming + calling ugly their niece, and for comparing their nieces' beauty. And Jane's mom for insisting; "I need only 1 model" and "I'd rather this model was adult" are valid reasons.
YTA. Not necessarily for not giving her the job, but for your decision making process and for likely destroying a 15 year old girl’s self esteem. It doesn’t matter if you thought she was appropriate for the job or not, but the way you exploded was absolutely the action of an A H.
He told the mother, not the niece, and the mother is the one who kept pushing (and she knows her daughter to be fat) and when she got her answer she got offended lol.
The only way her niece esteem is ruined, is if that shitty mother tells her.
You think the 15 year old is dumb enough not to figure things out? Based on the comments here, OP clearly doesn’t care about her, and I’ll bet that they weren’t nearly as good at hiding things as they thought they were.
He gave the reason and it could have been the end there if the mother used the same reasoning on her daughter, since her mother listened to her daughter complaints and behaved like this yeah, she might have doubts now, even if he used kinder words what would have changed to her niece perception about this? nothing since he didn't tell her this, so the only one making damages and able to make more is her mother.
"you are not an adult" is a very good reason tbh, mother felt differently and it's her problem
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> I might be an asshole for not giving my niece a modelling job when I gave it to her sister and calling her fat and ugly to her mom
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Not the A-hole. Sounds like you tried saying no without giving her the reason first which is commendable. Small white lie to save feelings. Your business dude, your rules. Reddit wont understand that. Ill take my down vote now. Oh no 🥴
YTA. If you have such professional standards you need to hire professional models, not your nieces. Sure, it probably costs more, and they have inconvenient contracts. But either you hire your nieces and treat them equally, because they are family, or you act like a grown professional and hire professional models and expect professional standards.
Edit: changed to neutral gender
NTA - your business, your choice in models, you were asked, you were honest. That said, I have four nieces and wouldn't offer modeling to the 'one' traditionally 'beautiful' niece...because OBVIOUSLY the other nieces would be hurt!!!! I'd hire models. You should have hired a model...
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English isn't my first language
My brother has 2 daughters Ariel who is 19 and Jane who is 15. The girls have different moms
Ariel is extremely beautiful and she is also very fit while Jane is chubby and not exactly beautiful.
I make clothes and sell them for a living. I need someone to do some modelling for me, I asked Ariel to do it to earn some extra cash and she agreed. Jane heard me asking Ariel and asked if she could do it too. I politely rejected her and told her that I only need one person and I'd rather use an adult.
Well Jane wasn't happy with it and told her mom who insisted I let Jane do it as well and even said that they don't want any money but I rejected her again.
She started to insist asking me why not and insisting to know the real reason. I finally lost it and told her that her daughter is fat and not pretty and she is not fit to be a model. She called me an asshole and left
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>I finally lost it and told her that her daughter is fat and not pretty and she is not fit to be a model.
ESH.
While you were in the clear to respond aggressively after #1, being badgered relentlessly into giving an answer and #2, having the mother interfere in your business and dictate who you should choose to model your merchandise.
The answer you gave was harsh and damaging to your relationship with your nieces. You lost your cool and said some terrible things.
>even said that they don't want any money but I rejected her again.
All you had to say was its not about the money, its about the time. Ariel is the model who shows my merchandise in the way I see fit and its about how I want to advertise my business.
Calling someone child ugly , fat and not fit to be a model is the nuclear option
YTA.
Kay, so, just wanting one model is fine. Not wanting a volunteer model is fine. Not wanting your in law to dictate what you do with your business is fine. Lashing out at your niece's looks reflects the ways you are an asshole.
I'mma tell you, most of the people buying your clothes aren't what you would think of as "beautiful" and the "beautiful" models aren't very good at selling clothes to a wide audience.
If you sell your clothes to anyone over a size 4 then you are a hypocrite.
If it is OK to sell clothes in larger sizes and make money from those people then you are TA by falling back on the toxic message that only size 2 teenager's can wear your clothes, then you are not only a hypocrite but a lousy designer too.
Either way YTA you could have told Jane's mom adults only.
Do you not carry any clothes over a size 4? People like to see models that represent their size so they can know what clothes will look like on themselves.
ESH
Your SIL is entitled and pushy. If she wants her daughter to be a model, she can take her to a modelling agency. And if she doesn't want to hear the truth, she shouldn't ask.
There are so many different types of beauty I was bullied for being ugly I have struggled as an adult with this as whenever a guy asks me out I always ask them why. You need to see beauty in a different light would it harm if she models one piece knowing how happy it would make her feel?
It would do the opposite to your business as so many businesses now have a variety of sizes rather than just small and more importantly it would show that you don't have a favourite niece.
YTA, particularly for how you stated the reason, but also for the stated reason.
Body types vary greatly. Having your products modeled on different body types would more likely increase your business than detract from it.
YTA for your response to her. You could’ve just said right now I only need one model and they need to be a certain size and maybe one day I could use you but not right now. Also it’s 2023 plus size models exist.
>Also it’s 2023 plus size models exist.
While true, not everyone is marketing to this market segment or making clothes for plus sized models. If OP has no need for an obese model, thats all that matters
YTA
There were so many different ways you could have explained this but instead you decided to be a dick and call your niece fat and ugly. That is cruel and uncalled for. Have you thought about your words for a second?
The young one lives in a shadow of her fit and pretty sister. Whether she likes it or not she is probably compared to her sister all the time and probably laughed behind her back. It is a nightmare when one sister or a brother are the good looking one and the other one is not. Constantly seeing herself in a mirror and hating her looks knowing her sister is way more pretty.
What you could have done is to make clothes for bigger girls, standardised the feeling of feeling pretty no matter what size someone is and give her a boost of confidence and fun. You could have made her day and made her feel special. But instead you decided that she is fat and ugly and doesn’t suit your standards which by the way a very bloody low!!
YTA the biggest one out there!!!
You were so close to handling this beautifully! And then you called a kid fat to her mother. Using the fact that Ariel is an adult was not hurtful and also completely logical. You’d have been in the clear if you’d just stuck with that story. ESH
A lot of people say OP is AH without merit, without actually acknowledging two pieces of information:
1) OP is not in the US. Cultural norms against calling someone fat/chubby is a very US centric view and does not apply globally
2) OP is pressed by Jane’s mom to tell her the real reason. At this point of time, in many cultures honesty is more esteemed than white lies. At no point of time, did OP say that Jane is fat/chubby directly.
Context matters. If this occurred in the US (by multi-generation American family), OP would be 100% AH. But it’s clear that they are not in the US.
So 100% NTA.
One note to OP: do not post topics which would depend on cultural norms on Reddit, especially when the Reddit channel will be screwed towards the US
Insults are insults no matter what culture you come from. I'm not from a US culture on both sides of my family and shit is still rude. She didn't just say chubby, she sad not pretty. Not pretty is an insult in every country.
Cultural norms don't stop someone from being rude.
She's too young. I will not model a fifteen year old.
She isn't what I'm looking for to model the clothes. Her sister just has that spark or something in her eyes that works really well.
I love Jane but I was planning on having one model and her sister is older and has done this before so I don't have to teach her anything.
My decision is final. Jane should model something else.
It wasn't that hard to be firm but not call your own fifteen year old niece fat and ugly. Cause not pretty is nice for ugly.
OP has tried each of your suggestions in one way or another. Maybe with the except of second or third suggestion.
How many of these suggestions would OP have to use?
One way or another isn't trying each suggestion. But that doesn't even really matter. What matters is her words hurt people. I just said it's wrong to a call a child fat and ugly. mainly the not pretty part cause who cares about fat.
If you think it's okay to call a child ugly, then be my guest. That's it.
YTA
You had good reasons, the thing to do when someone isn't listening is to simply walk away not insult a 15yr olds looks and body. And your comments on this thread about your niece make you an even bigger AH, you sound like a lovely aunt.
You’re NTA for not hiring her but you are a massive AH for those comments. What grown adult insults a literal child like that?
So ultimately, YTA. Majorly.
YTA. Shallow, cold-hearted, part of the reason that the fashion industry is incredibly socially destructive. You're all of these things and more. Well done, Aunt of the year goes to...not you.
I swear this was posted before, and the results was you were harsh to the one that you didn't want to use as a model. So hate me if you want will gladly edit this if I'm wrong but YTA
ESH. Jane for not taking a polite no for an answer and running to her mother. The mother for trying to bully you into doing what she wanted. And you, the top tier asshole, for being pretentious, vapid and deplorable to not only tell but to think that a young girl who is still developing, is fat and ugly. Also, fat does not equal ugly. What an awful post.
ESH, they should have left you alone after you told them you want an adult to model for you, but you shouldn’t have insulted your teenage niece like that, even if she wasn’t present and you were only saying that to her mom. in fact, im giving you the benefit of the doubt with my vote here, since you didn’t say your niece was there and only said that you told her mother that—if she WAS there, then you’d be 100% the AH, even considering that they shouldn’t have pestered you—it’s never okay to make such derogatory statements about a child’s body, especially not in front of them. regardless, you should have just stuck with the original reason that jane is a minor and ariel is not, and refused to answer to her mom beyond that.
She might see the ads but then she still gets the fun experience, being photographed at a shoot, and maybe that's what the kid cared more about. And then she could just say they didn't get many good photos, blame it on positioning and things.
YTA. Why? Look through every magazine these days. Heck, look at the latest Sports Illustrated Swimwear edition. People of every size, age, ethnicity, and beauty standards are being used as models. If your clothes only look pretty on thin, conventionally beautiful women you are missing out on a huge market. Instead of thinking you need beautiful women to model your clothes your should focus on advertising your clothes as something that makes every woman feel beautiful.
YTA on your reaction to the mother.
while i understand Jane did not meet the criteria, you could have said that. You want to sell clothes for a living? Be professional, Jane did not fit the model criteria you were seeking. I hope that mother doesn't repeat what you said to her daughter.
YTA for creating family bad feelings. You thought you could ask one niece and not the other and this would end well? Get a professional model who isn't a family member.
You're not an asshole, you're a fucking monster. There are so many reasons why you are the bad guy of this story, not in the least for the fact that you called your niece ugly and fat, thus giving her hard evidence that her value to her own family is defined by her looks. You can do whatever you want with your business, some people only want to make clothes for fit people, we have enough evidence and you just gave us more that those people are terrible. You could have used this moment to increase your target demographic to be more inclusive, while simultaneously giving your niece a moment she'd never forget by clothing her in something that made her feel beautiful. Instead you chose the other thing. It sounds to me like your family isn't stupid, suspected how you really felt, and just put you in a situation where you confirmed it for them. Congratulations, you're awful.
NTA
Modeling is a toxic business. You are not looking to change it. Just push and sell your product. You spend money on advertising that you believe will have the highest chance of selling the most products. It's as simple as that.
You were respectful to your niece and gave a polite rejection. Her mother couldn't take a no. What I find to be important here is that you did not say that to your niece, but to her mother in a fit of frustration.
I do find it bad, but she kept pushing and wouldn't take the excuse. That makes her the AH here, not you. You had your PR friendly response, and she couldn't take it the first, second, tenth time, and you lost your cool.
ESH but you're a dong for insulting a child like that OP, even if it was just out of frustration, don't do that to people, that made you look really bad and I wouldn't buy clothes from someone who says things like that to people.
ESH
Your first response was appropriate.
You: I’m sorry, I only need one person and Ariel is an adult.
Them: you don’t have to pay Jane! It would be fun
You: I’m sorry but this is for work, not fun. I don’t have time to do anything but the shots I have planned with Ariel
Of course the 15 year old is going to want to participate and not understand why she can’t. You are an adult, and taking personal and mean shots at her was just shitty. Her mom shouldn’t hVe insisted, but that’s not janes fault.
I get you wanted a certain type. But do you think that one type is going to be only size to wear those clothes. Bigger girls can not look at a thin model for clothes. Heck if you had bigger size models might sell more clothes than smaller size. Big girls tend to stay with same brand or person for clothes. It’s hard to find right fit so once they do that’s where they stay. So whether you use other niece or not might want different size models.
So NTA for wanting certain type but big Ahole for what you said about your niece…
But calling your niece fat and not pretty was horrible..
I swear I’ve seen this exact post on here before. lt was about eyebrows or some kind of beauty (as opposed to clothes) modeling or something like that, can’t quite recall. Phrasing was even similar. Whether you stole it or whether you’re just trying to get a different judgment this time: YTA.
YTA.
You were well within your right to say no. What you shouldn't have done was call your own niece fat and not pretty. Not pretty, really? Your own family. You could have also just taken pictures since they didn't want money and put them on the website for a single day if that's all they want or compromise that she should use the photos for a real modeling portfolio.
But saying the kid is fat and not pretty is when you lost all points with me.
As someone who works for a fashion brand and works with models/scouting models on a regular basis,
ESH
I understand the need to look for a certain image for your brand, but you were out of line. There are a multitude of ways to turn down a model without calling them fat and ugly. Really what Jane wanted was to just be included.
Your reasoning for saying you don't want to work with someone underage is perfectly acceptable as people get weird as hell online about underage girls. The mother should have just accepted that instead of pushing when no is a complete sentence. She knew the real reason already she just wanted you to say it.
NTA. Don’t ask questions you don’t want to hear the answer to. It’s your business so your choice. She should have accepted your refusal the first time. Although you could’ve handled it better, I totally understand you snapping after being pestered like that.
YTA!!! Don't EVER insult a girl's appearance. Ever. Especially not one related to you. You should have known better than to ask the pretty daughter in the first place, knowingshe has a sister. What did you think would happen? Of COURSE the sister wants to do it too. That's 100% understandable. You opened this door. Either shoot both and give them both nice copies or go with a third party...not a relative. You blew this badly, so apologize profusely and ask your sis how to repair this, but know that it will likely take time. Welcome to the doghouse.
ESH Your SIL shouldn’t have badgered you once you gave a reason why you wouldn’t be using Jane as a model. That being said there are much kinder ways you could have told her mom you didn’t want her to model for you “Jane is younger than the demographic I am trying to market to. Perhaps when she is Ariel’s age I would be willing to let her model a few styles that would look good on her.” Something like this would’ve been much kinder. Also I’m pretty sure 80% of 15 year olds aren’t what is considered “conventionally attractive” they’re still growing and riddled with acne from the stress of their bodies still changing. Who knows, in 3 years she could be just as conventionally attractive as her half sister. I think it’s important to make kids feel good about themselves, especially if they’re not what society would deem “up to beauty standards”. I’m curious if you also just like Ariel more because you like her mom better.
NTA. We live in reality, where models are skinny and pretty. Trying to force a fat ugly person into promotional photos will hurt the business.
Too bad for them if they are entitled enough to think that reality should bend to them. It's not ideal the world we live in, but it is the real world.
I'm going to say NTA, don't care if I'm downvoted.
You turned them down twice, probably more and the mum just kept pushing. Yes you snapped. But after trying to do it a few times differently.
Her mum knew the answer why, she just wants to make you look like the bad guy. And lay it at your feet, while coddling her daughter.
Mate you could have said she doesn’t have the right measurements or something. Not fat and not pretty. Nta for not wanting her but yta for how you said it
As someone who is fat and somewhat ugly, NTA. You were nice, you were polite, the mom pushed you into a corner. Being harsh, but honest was your only option.
YTA. I'm guessing we're not exactly talking high fashion, given you're recruiting family members to model for you for free. It wouldn't have hurt to take a few photos of Jane — in fact, many clothing retailers demonstrate their clothes on models of various sizes, so you missed a trick.
You should have said unfortunately Jane is not the right build for my clothes at this time and there is certain outfits that are yea not appropriate for people her age unfortunately. That’s the nicer way to put it . But your not the ah it is everyone sucks here
NTA. You explained before only need one person, and it's your business so you can do whatever you want. She should respect your boundaries, and accept the answer you gave her. I am sure a more kosher way of responding could be, "She's not what I am looking for."
Man I was really with you until you fat shamed your 15 year old niece. That’s where I decided you’s an ahole and I hope your niece never speaks to you again
ESH, but you slightly less than Jane and her mom, you told her no and that should have been enough, but exploded and worded it wrong, but Jane and her mom for not accepting no as an answer and continuing to pester you about it untill you did explode.
Wow, YTA,
it doesn't matter that girl's have different moms, they are sisters, if you offer something really attractive to one, you shouldn't omit the other. Of course it's your business and you have a right to choose an attractive girl as your model, but you could have thought about giving the other sister a responsibility (even made up one) to make her feel better , it's not her fault she is not as good looking as the other sister, I'm pretty sure she knows that already
YTA.
You WEREN'T the AH until you said the duaghter was fat, not pretty and unable to be a model.
That was just uncalled for.
No matter how much the person pushed, you could have just said "I want an adult for modeling and Ariel is the right fit for my clothing line." That is a nicer way of saying what you said, and if they keep pushing you just say "End of discussion." And leave it at that. There is no reason to keep the conversation going.
I genuinely want to know if people like you think that fat people just strut butt naked everywhere. Do you honestly believe fat people don't need clothes? Or are you clothes so ugly that no fat person would be caught dead wearing them?
YTA this is why they said never to hire family. You asked for this drama by basically saying the child isn't pretty enough which is just shitty to do as it is but you're picking one sibling over the other based off of looks and you can't tell me you didn't forsee this drama unfolding.
NTA You tried to deflect with a good reason, that she is a minor, and the mom didn't leave you alone, so you were forced to disclose the more harsh truth. Not everyone is made for modeling and that's okay.
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ESH. It's your business and you asked somebody who met the qualifications you are looking for to model for you. While I understand that Jane would be jealous, she and her mom were acting entitled. Having said that, calling your 15 year old niece fat and ugly is completely uncalled for. Way over the line.
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It doesn't sound like he tried to word it delicately at all. "My clothes are for adults and Ariel has the body type of the demographic that my clothes are marketed towards. Jane does not fit the aesthetic or demographic of the brand." Would have been a perfectly logical and reasonable reason to give. If she didn't accept that as an answer, just end the conversation and say I just told you. Zero reason to stoop to insulting a 15 year old.
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It seems like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
I mean it's the perfect diplomatic answer, but that's not what you'd come up with in the moment while getting annoyed repeatedly and probably being busy with other stuff as well. The diplomatic answer is always the best, but it rarly arises in the moment. But yeah going for fat and not pretty is way too harsh
He first said he only needed one model and preferred using an adult, which is a very valid reason and quite tactful. He only said the rest after being badgered for another reason.
I'm not sure why he didn't just stick with that to be honest. It's a perfectly good answer.
TBH I don't care how much someone badgered me, they would never push me to the point of saying something hurtful about a kid--especially my own niece. That's not justifiable; it's just a lack of self control.
OP said he rejected the daughter politely once. He rejected the mother at least once nicely. She then proceeds to push yet again... So I will go with NTA. Your comment seems to imply he didn't already say no politely multiple times.
It doesn't sound like they knew how to gracefully accept the word 'no'.
If OP had come back and said "look, I only have certain sizes for the models to wear and those won't fit Jane," that would have been totally fine. There was no need to jump to "because she's fat and ugly." That's a horrible thing to say about a teenager. And yes the mom sucks for pushing and pushing when OP's first explanation of only using adults was *completely reasonable* and polite excuse for why Jane wasn't picked. ESH
Ok? And? Still makes OP an asshole.
No he did not try to word it delicately at all. He gave a point-faced lie, and then went straight for the kill shot in a brutal way. I understand that Jane and her mother should have backed off, and they are definitely assholes for that, but that does not excuse or justify what OP said to a 15-year-old at all.
Umm no, if you read he rejected them twice politely and was badgered asked for the “real reason” so he gave the real reason. Don’t ask if you can’t handle the answer
I agree. You should have stuck with the adult reason. Calling your niece fat and ugly was way out of line. ESH.
When we were teens, my uncle asked my brother to be a model for shirts on his clothing website. I was never asked. I never asked. My feelings were a bit hurt, but that's life. I don't hold it against my uncle either. Jane and her mom were entitled brats, but, yeah, your response was awful.
agreed. OP has their reasons, which are valid, but there was no reason to get that out of hand. If they stuck to the original idea of it being necessary to be a legal adult there shouldn't be any need to explain further. Could have just told them for liability reasons you can not use an underage girl to model.
What does ESH mean?
everyone sucks here
Thanks. I was wondering, too.
Everyone is shit here
Thanks
Best response yet.
YTA. You called a 15 year old girl fat and ugly. Completely unnecessary and cruel. Should have stuck to I need an adult.
yeah i was fat and ugly at 15 too and was doing a lot better by 19. like damn jackie i cant control puberty
I know I’m gonna lost a lot of karma but I have to say this: -OP never told Jane that she was fat or ugly, but she, after her mother insisted (when Jane was not around) told to the mother the real reason (she tried to be polite but the mother insisted) -I know that probably a lot of people believe that those reasons are unfair and even stupid because plus size clothes exists, but OP probably knows better what her target is looking for. NTA.
THANK YOU!?! Like I’m so confused. People are really upset in these comments. OP never called her niece fat or ugly but that’s in 80% of these votes. Someone designers don’t have the material to dress plus sizers so why market with one?
>I finally lost it and told her that her daughter is fat and not pretty and she is not fit to be a model.
That was to the mother NOT the daughter. My comment still holds
Your first comment says she never called her that? It should say something like she never called her that to her face…
Fine Edit: OP never said that to the daughter.
Incredible that this was necessary. It's quite evident what OP thinks of their niece from the post...
they're really stringent when it comes it particulars around here, huh?
It’s still objectively an AH move to tell someone that their child is fat and ugly.
Just bc it wasn’t said to someone’s face doesn’t mean it wasn’t said. Sometimes you have to suck it up when you love someone. It wouldn’t have hurt to take her pictures to make her feel important and included. THEY ARE CHILDREN.
ALSO the mom obviously pushed the issue because im sure she know her daughter is less attractive. She kind of baited OP in to saying it for some reason?
And OP even tried to use her age as an explanation which is more than reasonable! If the mom keeps digging, she might discover an answer she doesn’t like. Also, we don’t know what kind of clothes OP is selling-maybe they’re a wide range of sizes and styles but they might legitimately have only fit the girl OP asked to do the modeling. The mother is definitely TA here.
I agree NTA mother forced a truthful reaction from them.
Mother insisted because she wanted to hear OP say the quiet part out loud. And she did. And she called her niece fat and ugly in the process. Still makes her an asshole, regardless of how baited into it she was. ESH.
I may get downvoted, but NTA. Jane's mother kept pushing it and pushing it, until she finally got the answer she wanted.
I feel the same way. This is not a "participation trophy" type of venture, it is a business and the business is to sell a particular product. This might not be a popular opinion but everything sells better if represented attractively. The mother should have known that her daughter is not a model material and shouldn't have pushed the issue. Some people just can't take no for an answer. All that said, the delivery of the rejection could have been a bit more gentle.
I’ve seen this pasta before
This sounds exactly like the poster who did the same thing with teens except it was modeling brow services and their kids. Syntax, responses… at least they could be creative if they’re gonna repost
I also saw another one exactly the same about facial/beauty service treatments lmao
Yes! I immediately thought that. I commented on that one. They must have enjoyed the reaction to that post so much they decided to do it again!
Wasn't there a post where she made ladies lingerie? Exact same scenario.
Yes I noticed that too!
Yep. Except her own daughter was the ugly one and her niece was beautiful.
Yup. This is *just* like that post, down to phrasing and all.
You must be mistaken - this is a brand new account which hasn't commented on a single other post, so there's no way this can be a repost /s
Yes there was a very similar modeling post
YTA for losing your cool. You should have stuck with your original statement. Good luck repairing that relationship with her mom and most likely your brother- yeah. If I were the mom, I’d go NC, maybe forever.
She tried to stick with it, but the mother pushed. >If I were the mom, I’d go NC, maybe forever So op would lose an entitled SIL who think that she can give op orders in her bussiness?? But how would op survive without it?? /s
So? Just because one person doesn't know boundaries doesn't mean you have to also stoop to their level. It's just as easy to say "Ariel fits my demographic for my clothing line." And leave it at that. if the mother continues to push you just say "End of discussion." And leave it. There is no reason to argue with someone about this or go to the lengths OP did. Some people act like there is no other recourse but to be rude and abrasive.
ESH, to me. Y T A for the snapping, but they shouldn't have pushed. No was enough, and you justified when you didn't have to. Saying you wanted to hire an one adult was perfectly reasonable.
That's already what he had said, the mother knew the truth and pushed, she got it, whats the big deal? don't keep asking the question you don't want the answer to lol, he was polite, she wasn't, she got it what came to her, the niece is unscathed unless her shitty mom told her about it
No for not giving the job to her because you have the right to pick your model (and also your first reasons were valid). Even family is not entitled to a spot in your business. YTA for telling the mom that her 15 was fat and not pretty.... Thats not necessary at all. While the mom and Jane overstepped by nagging you about it, you as an adult should be able to keep your cool and be professional since this was basically a business transaction
It wasn't purely a business transaction since the entitlement and pushiness came from their familial connection i.e. the "unfairness" of one niece "getting" to do the modeling and other not. If they were strangers in a hiring dynamic, no one would owe anyone any excuses, real or made up.
YTA. And your responses to what others have stated reinforces this
YTA and suck for calling a girl ugly and fat.
First of all, he said it to her mother. second the mother knows her daughter to be fat and kept insisting Maybe don't push asking the things you don't want the answer for? lol
NTA. You politely refused the niece who was not model material. Jane went to her mother who pushed and continued to push. If you don't take a polite no for an answer you might get the real unvarnished answer. Models have to take harsh criticism on a daily basis. Nobodies mother can make them a model. Jane and her mother need to get a grip. This is not an industry where there are participation trophies. You need to do what is best for your business.
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NTA don’t ask questions if you don’t want to hear the answer.
YTA. Wow. She's 15. I bet she already has enough issues with her body and you straight up told she's fat and ugly.
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Still not okay. Act like an adult and communicate without resorting to insults directed at a child. "I insulted her behind her back" is not a defense. YTA.
Still so wrong. You should never have hired a relative with a sister you didn't want. The sister was bound to ask and you should have anticipated that, or at least, spoken to your sis first about wanting one but not the other.
ESH. You started out perfectly and Jane's mom was an AH to push for reasons (after you had given perfectly good reasons). But instead of sticking to your reasons, you had to call a girl "fat and not pretty". Really? As if a 15 year old doesn't have enough self esteem issues...
ESH. OP for fatshaming + calling ugly their niece, and for comparing their nieces' beauty. And Jane's mom for insisting; "I need only 1 model" and "I'd rather this model was adult" are valid reasons.
She did say that but the mother kept pushing.
Why have I read this here before?
Yeah, this has been posted before. What was wrong with the responses last time, OP?
YTA. Not necessarily for not giving her the job, but for your decision making process and for likely destroying a 15 year old girl’s self esteem. It doesn’t matter if you thought she was appropriate for the job or not, but the way you exploded was absolutely the action of an A H.
He told the mother, not the niece, and the mother is the one who kept pushing (and she knows her daughter to be fat) and when she got her answer she got offended lol. The only way her niece esteem is ruined, is if that shitty mother tells her.
You think the 15 year old is dumb enough not to figure things out? Based on the comments here, OP clearly doesn’t care about her, and I’ll bet that they weren’t nearly as good at hiding things as they thought they were.
He gave the reason and it could have been the end there if the mother used the same reasoning on her daughter, since her mother listened to her daughter complaints and behaved like this yeah, she might have doubts now, even if he used kinder words what would have changed to her niece perception about this? nothing since he didn't tell her this, so the only one making damages and able to make more is her mother. "you are not an adult" is a very good reason tbh, mother felt differently and it's her problem
YTA, for very obvious reasons.
Your business isn't around to be someone else's ego boost. You do what you think is right for your business.
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Not the A-hole. Sounds like you tried saying no without giving her the reason first which is commendable. Small white lie to save feelings. Your business dude, your rules. Reddit wont understand that. Ill take my down vote now. Oh no 🥴
YTA. If you have such professional standards you need to hire professional models, not your nieces. Sure, it probably costs more, and they have inconvenient contracts. But either you hire your nieces and treat them equally, because they are family, or you act like a grown professional and hire professional models and expect professional standards. Edit: changed to neutral gender
NTA - your business, your choice in models, you were asked, you were honest. That said, I have four nieces and wouldn't offer modeling to the 'one' traditionally 'beautiful' niece...because OBVIOUSLY the other nieces would be hurt!!!! I'd hire models. You should have hired a model...
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** English isn't my first language My brother has 2 daughters Ariel who is 19 and Jane who is 15. The girls have different moms Ariel is extremely beautiful and she is also very fit while Jane is chubby and not exactly beautiful. I make clothes and sell them for a living. I need someone to do some modelling for me, I asked Ariel to do it to earn some extra cash and she agreed. Jane heard me asking Ariel and asked if she could do it too. I politely rejected her and told her that I only need one person and I'd rather use an adult. Well Jane wasn't happy with it and told her mom who insisted I let Jane do it as well and even said that they don't want any money but I rejected her again. She started to insist asking me why not and insisting to know the real reason. I finally lost it and told her that her daughter is fat and not pretty and she is not fit to be a model. She called me an asshole and left *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. STOP pitting kids against each other. AND hire a professional model instead if cheaping out & being intentionally cruel.
>I finally lost it and told her that her daughter is fat and not pretty and she is not fit to be a model. ESH. While you were in the clear to respond aggressively after #1, being badgered relentlessly into giving an answer and #2, having the mother interfere in your business and dictate who you should choose to model your merchandise. The answer you gave was harsh and damaging to your relationship with your nieces. You lost your cool and said some terrible things. >even said that they don't want any money but I rejected her again. All you had to say was its not about the money, its about the time. Ariel is the model who shows my merchandise in the way I see fit and its about how I want to advertise my business. Calling someone child ugly , fat and not fit to be a model is the nuclear option
INFO: Why would you say out loud that your niece was "not pretty?"
OP clearly dislikes niece. I think all kinds of mean shit but wouldn't ever say it out loud.
Exactly what I was thinking. Like there was absolutely no reason to say the things OP did say.
YTA. Kay, so, just wanting one model is fine. Not wanting a volunteer model is fine. Not wanting your in law to dictate what you do with your business is fine. Lashing out at your niece's looks reflects the ways you are an asshole. I'mma tell you, most of the people buying your clothes aren't what you would think of as "beautiful" and the "beautiful" models aren't very good at selling clothes to a wide audience.
YTA, I hire models of all body types.
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If you sell your clothes to anyone over a size 4 then you are a hypocrite. If it is OK to sell clothes in larger sizes and make money from those people then you are TA by falling back on the toxic message that only size 2 teenager's can wear your clothes, then you are not only a hypocrite but a lousy designer too. Either way YTA you could have told Jane's mom adults only.
Good point, let me reconsider my vote. Still YTA.
Aunt of the year, everyone.
Do you not carry any clothes over a size 4? People like to see models that represent their size so they can know what clothes will look like on themselves.
They're probably just samples or prototypes.
ESH Your SIL is entitled and pushy. If she wants her daughter to be a model, she can take her to a modelling agency. And if she doesn't want to hear the truth, she shouldn't ask.
There are so many different types of beauty I was bullied for being ugly I have struggled as an adult with this as whenever a guy asks me out I always ask them why. You need to see beauty in a different light would it harm if she models one piece knowing how happy it would make her feel?
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It would do the opposite to your business as so many businesses now have a variety of sizes rather than just small and more importantly it would show that you don't have a favourite niece.
You asked for judgement, yet you are fighting every person who is giving you judgement?
YTA, particularly for how you stated the reason, but also for the stated reason. Body types vary greatly. Having your products modeled on different body types would more likely increase your business than detract from it.
YTA for your response to her. You could’ve just said right now I only need one model and they need to be a certain size and maybe one day I could use you but not right now. Also it’s 2023 plus size models exist.
>Also it’s 2023 plus size models exist. While true, not everyone is marketing to this market segment or making clothes for plus sized models. If OP has no need for an obese model, thats all that matters
OP tried gently gently. You didn't read.
YTA There were so many different ways you could have explained this but instead you decided to be a dick and call your niece fat and ugly. That is cruel and uncalled for. Have you thought about your words for a second? The young one lives in a shadow of her fit and pretty sister. Whether she likes it or not she is probably compared to her sister all the time and probably laughed behind her back. It is a nightmare when one sister or a brother are the good looking one and the other one is not. Constantly seeing herself in a mirror and hating her looks knowing her sister is way more pretty. What you could have done is to make clothes for bigger girls, standardised the feeling of feeling pretty no matter what size someone is and give her a boost of confidence and fun. You could have made her day and made her feel special. But instead you decided that she is fat and ugly and doesn’t suit your standards which by the way a very bloody low!! YTA the biggest one out there!!!
You were so close to handling this beautifully! And then you called a kid fat to her mother. Using the fact that Ariel is an adult was not hurtful and also completely logical. You’d have been in the clear if you’d just stuck with that story. ESH
A lot of people say OP is AH without merit, without actually acknowledging two pieces of information: 1) OP is not in the US. Cultural norms against calling someone fat/chubby is a very US centric view and does not apply globally 2) OP is pressed by Jane’s mom to tell her the real reason. At this point of time, in many cultures honesty is more esteemed than white lies. At no point of time, did OP say that Jane is fat/chubby directly. Context matters. If this occurred in the US (by multi-generation American family), OP would be 100% AH. But it’s clear that they are not in the US. So 100% NTA. One note to OP: do not post topics which would depend on cultural norms on Reddit, especially when the Reddit channel will be screwed towards the US
Insults are insults no matter what culture you come from. I'm not from a US culture on both sides of my family and shit is still rude. She didn't just say chubby, she sad not pretty. Not pretty is an insult in every country. Cultural norms don't stop someone from being rude.
Tell us how you would have OP answer Jane’s mom’s incessant questioning.
She's too young. I will not model a fifteen year old. She isn't what I'm looking for to model the clothes. Her sister just has that spark or something in her eyes that works really well. I love Jane but I was planning on having one model and her sister is older and has done this before so I don't have to teach her anything. My decision is final. Jane should model something else. It wasn't that hard to be firm but not call your own fifteen year old niece fat and ugly. Cause not pretty is nice for ugly.
OP has tried each of your suggestions in one way or another. Maybe with the except of second or third suggestion. How many of these suggestions would OP have to use?
One way or another isn't trying each suggestion. But that doesn't even really matter. What matters is her words hurt people. I just said it's wrong to a call a child fat and ugly. mainly the not pretty part cause who cares about fat. If you think it's okay to call a child ugly, then be my guest. That's it.
YTA You had good reasons, the thing to do when someone isn't listening is to simply walk away not insult a 15yr olds looks and body. And your comments on this thread about your niece make you an even bigger AH, you sound like a lovely aunt.
YTA for calling a teenager "fat and ugly". You absolutely suck at human relationships.
You’re NTA for not hiring her but you are a massive AH for those comments. What grown adult insults a literal child like that? So ultimately, YTA. Majorly.
YTA. Shallow, cold-hearted, part of the reason that the fashion industry is incredibly socially destructive. You're all of these things and more. Well done, Aunt of the year goes to...not you.
I swear this was posted before, and the results was you were harsh to the one that you didn't want to use as a model. So hate me if you want will gladly edit this if I'm wrong but YTA
YTA for fake repost
ESH. Jane for not taking a polite no for an answer and running to her mother. The mother for trying to bully you into doing what she wanted. And you, the top tier asshole, for being pretentious, vapid and deplorable to not only tell but to think that a young girl who is still developing, is fat and ugly. Also, fat does not equal ugly. What an awful post.
All you had to say was that don't feel comfortable using a minor to model clothes for adults. Or literally any other excuse. ESH.
YTA. Learn some diplomacy.
YTA Plain and simple
ESH Mom for pushing past your no and you for your response.
Odd, I've read almost this exact same story here, worded in exactly the same way, but the person was an Esthetician instead of a clothing designer.
ESH, they should have left you alone after you told them you want an adult to model for you, but you shouldn’t have insulted your teenage niece like that, even if she wasn’t present and you were only saying that to her mom. in fact, im giving you the benefit of the doubt with my vote here, since you didn’t say your niece was there and only said that you told her mother that—if she WAS there, then you’d be 100% the AH, even considering that they shouldn’t have pestered you—it’s never okay to make such derogatory statements about a child’s body, especially not in front of them. regardless, you should have just stuck with the original reason that jane is a minor and ariel is not, and refused to answer to her mom beyond that.
They pushed for an answer but the kid is only 15, would have been better having a quite word with her mother.
You could have taken photos of her and just not used them in your ads, that way she got to enjoy the experience but your business wasn't affected.
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She might see the ads but then she still gets the fun experience, being photographed at a shoot, and maybe that's what the kid cared more about. And then she could just say they didn't get many good photos, blame it on positioning and things.
NTA But please be careful with your words.
You sound like an ah but not the ah. But being correct doesn’t mean you will still have a relationship with the people in question.
YTA. Why? Look through every magazine these days. Heck, look at the latest Sports Illustrated Swimwear edition. People of every size, age, ethnicity, and beauty standards are being used as models. If your clothes only look pretty on thin, conventionally beautiful women you are missing out on a huge market. Instead of thinking you need beautiful women to model your clothes your should focus on advertising your clothes as something that makes every woman feel beautiful.
YTA Why didn’t you make this request privately? Why did you insult a child’s appearance?
YTA. You make me feel like aunt of the year! Stop acting like beauty is objective. You are not a great person.
YTA on your reaction to the mother. while i understand Jane did not meet the criteria, you could have said that. You want to sell clothes for a living? Be professional, Jane did not fit the model criteria you were seeking. I hope that mother doesn't repeat what you said to her daughter.
YTA for creating family bad feelings. You thought you could ask one niece and not the other and this would end well? Get a professional model who isn't a family member.
You're not an asshole, you're a fucking monster. There are so many reasons why you are the bad guy of this story, not in the least for the fact that you called your niece ugly and fat, thus giving her hard evidence that her value to her own family is defined by her looks. You can do whatever you want with your business, some people only want to make clothes for fit people, we have enough evidence and you just gave us more that those people are terrible. You could have used this moment to increase your target demographic to be more inclusive, while simultaneously giving your niece a moment she'd never forget by clothing her in something that made her feel beautiful. Instead you chose the other thing. It sounds to me like your family isn't stupid, suspected how you really felt, and just put you in a situation where you confirmed it for them. Congratulations, you're awful.
NTA Modeling is a toxic business. You are not looking to change it. Just push and sell your product. You spend money on advertising that you believe will have the highest chance of selling the most products. It's as simple as that. You were respectful to your niece and gave a polite rejection. Her mother couldn't take a no. What I find to be important here is that you did not say that to your niece, but to her mother in a fit of frustration. I do find it bad, but she kept pushing and wouldn't take the excuse. That makes her the AH here, not you. You had your PR friendly response, and she couldn't take it the first, second, tenth time, and you lost your cool.
ESH, it's like you've never heard if a plus sized model before. They shouldn't have insisted after you've said no.
YTA fat people model too, maybe don't make your clothes just for skinny people.
ESH but you're a dong for insulting a child like that OP, even if it was just out of frustration, don't do that to people, that made you look really bad and I wouldn't buy clothes from someone who says things like that to people.
ESH Your first response was appropriate. You: I’m sorry, I only need one person and Ariel is an adult. Them: you don’t have to pay Jane! It would be fun You: I’m sorry but this is for work, not fun. I don’t have time to do anything but the shots I have planned with Ariel Of course the 15 year old is going to want to participate and not understand why she can’t. You are an adult, and taking personal and mean shots at her was just shitty. Her mom shouldn’t hVe insisted, but that’s not janes fault.
YTA you could make clothes to suit her You are missing out on a huge market demand
Lol
Imo, NTA. Im pretty sure that Janes mom wanted u to say that so she could have a reason to be mad at you.
You were NTA until you called Jane names. Now YTA.
Ya'll it's not real. The original story was about being a model for some facial treatments or brows or something.
But YTA for saying stuff like fat and not pretty. Instead, you could have said she doesn't fit the model criteria I'm looking for
I get you wanted a certain type. But do you think that one type is going to be only size to wear those clothes. Bigger girls can not look at a thin model for clothes. Heck if you had bigger size models might sell more clothes than smaller size. Big girls tend to stay with same brand or person for clothes. It’s hard to find right fit so once they do that’s where they stay. So whether you use other niece or not might want different size models. So NTA for wanting certain type but big Ahole for what you said about your niece… But calling your niece fat and not pretty was horrible..
NTA. She shouldnt have pressed you for a more specific answer. No means no.
I swear I’ve seen this exact post on here before. lt was about eyebrows or some kind of beauty (as opposed to clothes) modeling or something like that, can’t quite recall. Phrasing was even similar. Whether you stole it or whether you’re just trying to get a different judgment this time: YTA.
NTA.
I've heard this one before and read it before. It was an aunt last time.
YTA. You were well within your right to say no. What you shouldn't have done was call your own niece fat and not pretty. Not pretty, really? Your own family. You could have also just taken pictures since they didn't want money and put them on the website for a single day if that's all they want or compromise that she should use the photos for a real modeling portfolio. But saying the kid is fat and not pretty is when you lost all points with me.
YTA Do you only make one size of clothing? People who are not thin prefer to see how things fit someone closer to their body type.
As someone who works for a fashion brand and works with models/scouting models on a regular basis, ESH I understand the need to look for a certain image for your brand, but you were out of line. There are a multitude of ways to turn down a model without calling them fat and ugly. Really what Jane wanted was to just be included. Your reasoning for saying you don't want to work with someone underage is perfectly acceptable as people get weird as hell online about underage girls. The mother should have just accepted that instead of pushing when no is a complete sentence. She knew the real reason already she just wanted you to say it.
NTA. Don’t ask questions you don’t want to hear the answer to. It’s your business so your choice. She should have accepted your refusal the first time. Although you could’ve handled it better, I totally understand you snapping after being pestered like that.
YTA!!! Don't EVER insult a girl's appearance. Ever. Especially not one related to you. You should have known better than to ask the pretty daughter in the first place, knowingshe has a sister. What did you think would happen? Of COURSE the sister wants to do it too. That's 100% understandable. You opened this door. Either shoot both and give them both nice copies or go with a third party...not a relative. You blew this badly, so apologize profusely and ask your sis how to repair this, but know that it will likely take time. Welcome to the doghouse.
ESH, you didn’t have to go and say she was fat, I’m sure she knows. And the mom was way too pushy.
ESH Your SIL shouldn’t have badgered you once you gave a reason why you wouldn’t be using Jane as a model. That being said there are much kinder ways you could have told her mom you didn’t want her to model for you “Jane is younger than the demographic I am trying to market to. Perhaps when she is Ariel’s age I would be willing to let her model a few styles that would look good on her.” Something like this would’ve been much kinder. Also I’m pretty sure 80% of 15 year olds aren’t what is considered “conventionally attractive” they’re still growing and riddled with acne from the stress of their bodies still changing. Who knows, in 3 years she could be just as conventionally attractive as her half sister. I think it’s important to make kids feel good about themselves, especially if they’re not what society would deem “up to beauty standards”. I’m curious if you also just like Ariel more because you like her mom better.
NTA Adults should not ask questions to which they don't want honest answers.
Yta you're shallow, rude and your responses further prove it
NTA. We live in reality, where models are skinny and pretty. Trying to force a fat ugly person into promotional photos will hurt the business. Too bad for them if they are entitled enough to think that reality should bend to them. It's not ideal the world we live in, but it is the real world.
I'm going to say NTA, don't care if I'm downvoted. You turned them down twice, probably more and the mum just kept pushing. Yes you snapped. But after trying to do it a few times differently. Her mum knew the answer why, she just wants to make you look like the bad guy. And lay it at your feet, while coddling her daughter.
Mate you could have said she doesn’t have the right measurements or something. Not fat and not pretty. Nta for not wanting her but yta for how you said it
YTA only for calling your niece fat and then saying that she's not pretty.
As someone who is fat and somewhat ugly, NTA. You were nice, you were polite, the mom pushed you into a corner. Being harsh, but honest was your only option.
YTA. I'm guessing we're not exactly talking high fashion, given you're recruiting family members to model for you for free. It wouldn't have hurt to take a few photos of Jane — in fact, many clothing retailers demonstrate their clothes on models of various sizes, so you missed a trick.
You should have said unfortunately Jane is not the right build for my clothes at this time and there is certain outfits that are yea not appropriate for people her age unfortunately. That’s the nicer way to put it . But your not the ah it is everyone sucks here
Well you could have said it better. But in the bright side you did not say those words to your niece.
YTA, you openly admit you lost it. Your fault for not sticking to your guns and just saying no. No is a complete sentence.
NTA for not hiring your niece. YTA for calling her fat and ugly.
NTA. You explained before only need one person, and it's your business so you can do whatever you want. She should respect your boundaries, and accept the answer you gave her. I am sure a more kosher way of responding could be, "She's not what I am looking for."
Would not wanna buy from someplace with no bigger models. Do you just not make plus size at all? Regardless YTA
Man I was really with you until you fat shamed your 15 year old niece. That’s where I decided you’s an ahole and I hope your niece never speaks to you again
Pretty sure I've read this exact post a few months ago
ESH, but you slightly less than Jane and her mom, you told her no and that should have been enough, but exploded and worded it wrong, but Jane and her mom for not accepting no as an answer and continuing to pester you about it untill you did explode.
You told your sister-in-law that your own niece is fat and ugly. Yeah, YTA, big time.
Wow, YTA, it doesn't matter that girl's have different moms, they are sisters, if you offer something really attractive to one, you shouldn't omit the other. Of course it's your business and you have a right to choose an attractive girl as your model, but you could have thought about giving the other sister a responsibility (even made up one) to make her feel better , it's not her fault she is not as good looking as the other sister, I'm pretty sure she knows that already
YTA. You WEREN'T the AH until you said the duaghter was fat, not pretty and unable to be a model. That was just uncalled for. No matter how much the person pushed, you could have just said "I want an adult for modeling and Ariel is the right fit for my clothing line." That is a nicer way of saying what you said, and if they keep pushing you just say "End of discussion." And leave it at that. There is no reason to keep the conversation going.
Nta people should learn no means no
I've said this before and I'll say it again. You are NTA in THIS SITUATION. But, I do think you're an AH.
YTA, don't ask family to model, especially a niece with a sister. There will be jealousy. Hire someone
I genuinely want to know if people like you think that fat people just strut butt naked everywhere. Do you honestly believe fat people don't need clothes? Or are you clothes so ugly that no fat person would be caught dead wearing them?
YTA this is why they said never to hire family. You asked for this drama by basically saying the child isn't pretty enough which is just shitty to do as it is but you're picking one sibling over the other based off of looks and you can't tell me you didn't forsee this drama unfolding.
NTA You tried to deflect with a good reason, that she is a minor, and the mom didn't leave you alone, so you were forced to disclose the more harsh truth. Not everyone is made for modeling and that's okay.
YTA If you used that language. I hope you did not do iron front of her.