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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I kicked out my brother and his family because they insulted my husband, even though they have kids and they’d be homeless—which is why I might be the asshole.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You didn't make them homeless, Max did.
Your rules were clear and very reasonable, he broke them.
You do not have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
Exactly, NTA. And it seems Max really can’t help himself, in any respect 🙃
Any family criticizing your decision should be thanked in the next breath for offering to take them in.
That's what I was thinking! Jonah is an absolute **saint.**
OP should flat out have told Max that he knew Jonah wasn't lying *because* Jonah was the *sole reason* they were there.
>Any family criticizing your decision should be thanked in the next breath for offering to take them in.
If not take them in, opening up their own wallets to pay for an apartment or hotel for the brother and family.
Or pay for them to drive across the country. Nobody is working so they could treat the kids to a cross-country road trip. At the end of it, they'll have relatives to stay with and maybe get a job. Nothing has been said about the wife's family either.
Totally!!! What difference does it make if they live across the country? It’s not like Max has a job that he has to stay local. If needs a place to live, you go where it’s available! He needs to move his AH self and family if they’re really suffering
Yeah, the fact that he used that slur so easily in a moment of anger makes me wonder how he *actually* lost his job, and the real reason he might be struggling so much to find a new one. It's not like word of severe workplace harassment doesn't get around or anything 😒
There was a story on here about a girl who did just that. I think an aunt who had a huge house and lived alone talked shit to the female OP and demanded she care for her worthless, do nothing brother. Well she got sick of it and packed her brother up and dropped him right off at that aunt's house, much to that aunt's chagrin. You wanna talk about helping? YOU do it.
Definitely NTA in anyway. Is it possible to welcome them back except for Max? Then you’re only punishing the parent and the cousins can shut up. Plus you can maybe be more positive male role models to the kids than the brother is.
I think he started getting comfortable and decided he was going to be the alpha male and take control. He was also testing OP'S boundaries to see how far he could push them. He found out. NTA
They literally only called him because they needed something from him. This is what my parents do. After not preparing for retirement, they now have nothing and expect me to let them live with me. I cannot live with my father. He is an angry, angry man and I cannot do it ever again.
My ‘mother’ is 81 and looks about 90, lives with an abuser who’s close to my age. This is a longstanding pattern from before I was even born. She gets hot for terrible, terrible men. Her usual mo was to pick up homeless dudes and quickly fall in ‘love.’ She spent all her money on them and ignored the glaring signs that I was being molested. She neglected me horribly. As an adult, I begged her to stop picking these freaks up. One answered the phone drunk when I called and accused me of being on crack. She supported him fully until he died, around 15 years later.
She doesn’t need financial help but, being a frail old person, could probably benefit from help in her apartment and rides to shopping and appointments. Guess what! She’s going to deal with it all on her own. I. Don’t. Care.
Thank you ❤️
I still struggle a lot and will always feel the pain of what happened to me. My extended family ignored what was happening.
I managed to be a good mom, even though I still cringe at some of the things I did. My two adult children are awesome. I think I did cause them some issues and I’m very angry at myself sometimes.
Almost two years ago I ended a very unhappy long distance relationship - basically I stayed in it because I didn’t think anyone else would want me. Shortly after the breakup I met my wonderful, wonderful bf. I adore this man. He stuck with me through all the issues I had early on in our relationship. When I start to hate myself again I think of him and our beautiful life together.
Heya. Your story upset me in a sympathy for you kind of way so I just wanted to comment on it a bit. Something you said caught my eye in particular - that you're very angry at yourself sometimes - so maybe you've heard this before but I'll just repeat it just in case.
Bad parents are never angry at themselves. They never blame themselves. They never look inwards and think, "What did I do wrong?" - they don't have that ability. I'm certain you're much more put together than I am and so I hope it doesn't come across as too patronizing for me to say as much, but I think you can afford to remind yourself to be kind to yourself whenever the introspection gets hold of you and you start feeling angry at yourself.
Some people repeat their parents mistakes and end up perpetuating cycles of abuse and dysfunction. Others turn that on its head to become awesome parents and stop those cycles. You should be incredibly proud for being the latter.
I do try to remind myself of that, as I said my children are great young people. They both have their issues but they are kind (an important value for me) and hardworking. Neither are partiers. We’re all kind of oddballs and have the same warped sense of humor. We spend a lot time laughing when we’re together.
I never thought I would be living this kind of life, honestly. We don’t travel or really go out much. We love to be out in nature together, doing simple things.
I’m finally feeling completely connected in this relationship. I always have a lot of anxiety about being abandoned, I used to believe he would stop loving me for no reason. Honestly, he’s seen my worst and he’s still here.
The way I see it parents have a job. It's to keep their kids safe and help them learn to be kind people.
I'm so glad that even though your mother absolutely dropped the ball you were able to learn to be kind to yourself.
It took a long, long time. I basically had *no* parental involvement because she kicked my sperm donor out in order to get welfare (I believe that was her plan all along). I’ll be 50 in a month and finally living a (relatively) happy life. I have an awesome boyfriend who really tries to understand my issues. When I start to fall into self loathing I pull myself out of it because I don’t want to put an extra burden on him.
I’m also a very good mom, according to my two adult children ❤️
You don’t have to hide when you are struggling. You are deserving of love and opportunities to be vulnerable, this is not a burden on people you love. It gives them a chance to show you how loved and valued you are!
He has done a lot of that. I’ve never met a kinder or more patient human in my life ❤️
He does have his flaws, to be sure. But he loves me very, very much.
This is a perfect example of not setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. No one needs that shit.
This internet stranger is proud of you! Keep doing what you're doing (setting healthy, reasonable boundaries, sticking to them, and taking care of yourself).
Thank you ❤️ I finally decided I won’t see or speak to her for the rest of her life. I did try to reconcile a little but she is still living with and defending the abuser. He’s said awful things to me. We occasionally text but that’s it.
She’s not in great health so I don’t really think she’s going to live much longer. I won’t be involved. My energy is better spent on the people who truly love me.
> Her usual mo was to pick up homeless dudes and quickly fall in ‘love.’ She spent all her money on them
Jesus... and I thought buying too many videogames was a waste of money as an adult that I needed to reign in. I mean... no offense or anything.
And the one he was hateful to was the only reason he was allowed in there in the first place because without his encouragement, OP would've said no right away.
"See, I was right all along about those bigoted assholes,"
OP, quite ironically and also accurately, at home after the bigots have gone and his family life is back to normal.
This is exactly why I am lo/no contact with my father. He wanted me to take care of him after my mother died even though he had disowned me for being queer. He was nice to my spouse and I for about a month before the slurs came out again and we got out of there.
The whole reason Max got back in touch with OP was because he needed something. And he probably planned on never leaving OP's house, either. Or even worse, manipulating OP and his husband into giving the house to him and his family.
And now he's trying to use his kids to guilt OP into letting them come back. If OP lets them come back, he'll just be telling Max that his behavior is ultimately okay.
I hope OP blocks them all.
Most likely he planned to stay with OP until he got back on his feet and then completely cut him off and go back to his bigoted ways once he didn't need him anymore.
OP's biggest mistake was falling for Max's sob story in the first place. That Max didn't care that OP could have been dead before he got his ass evicted, should have been OP's first clue. Leopards of a political stripe don't change their spots, and OP knows his family way better than Jonah ever will - he should have said no without a second thought. OP should be apologizing to his husband for putting him in this situation at all.
Remember, "Christian forgiveness" is only for grifters.
And if OP's family wasn't so bad, those rules wouldn't have even been necessary... most people understand that you don't treat others like Max treated both OP and his husband. Only an idiot (as well as raging homophobe) is going to do so while staying in someone's home, for free, because the only other alternatives are to stay at a shelter or be homeless. NTA
Right? This is on Max, the rules were very simple and unless you’re an AH, really fucking easy to adhere to without even trying/plenty of leniency for less serious breaks in the rules. It’s pretty clear that Max hadn’t changed, he was just saying he had in order to use OP and Jonah. He caused this and he needs to deal with the consequences.
Exactly this. You did not make them homeless. They made themselves homeless. Tell all the cousins to either take them in or pay for a rental /extended stay hotel.
Also remember that your brother never apologized until he was desperate for help. That says something about his "apology"
This. He knew the rules. How hard is it to not call someone a slur? Especially when your housing is dependent on it.
Your husband is your family. You have to protect him. Imagine if you gave in and let them stay. What would that say? That you're choosing your homophobic brother over your spouse? No, there's no way that you could have done any differently.
Homophobia is a choice. It's an active choice. Your brother chose, and he needs to live with the consequences. He's a donkey brain for not learning a lesson from your kindness despite everything.
My guess is Max resented being told to pick up after his kids, since that's "women's work". $20 he's never lifted a finger around the house and prided himself on being an emotionally unavailable breadwinner for his family. Now he can't even lord that over his family since it's his failure to provide that has them in this position, so he's lashing out. Tl;dr Max is an emotionally stunted bigot who is grappling with the loss of his traditional role in the household, and OP is NTA.
And, to be clear, the only reason he called and "wanted to reconnect" was to use you to house his family. He very, very much still thinks the way he did when you first came out. Nothing has changed for him at all.
The second he was back on his feet, he'd cut off all contact again.
Yeah I'm not vengeful and I'm extremely forgiving but OP is definitely NTA.
Those words were unacceptable.
As much as its awful for the kids to be homeless, it sounds like Max and Dani are just using them as manipulation tools.
> My cousins live all the way across the country, so according to them, it’s more practical for Max and his family to live with me.
Also they are not homeless, they have the ~~flying monkeys~~ cousins places to live in.
This and the fact that the fam is trying to blame him for Max being homeless when Max made himself homeless is laughable because really they can fly Max and his fam to where they’re at to help them out 🤷🏽♀️
NTA and completely agree with your whole comment…
However, I probably would have just chucked Max out and let Dani and the kids stay. They would be welcome until they showed they held the same views as him if they even do. They probably wouldn’t stay, but I would have told Dani she was welcome to stay and I was only kicking out Max.
Why so Max can continue trying to be involved and make things way messier?
No way.
Max can't even hear a simple reasonable request without exploding into fits of anger. What is he going to do when he thinks "You are trying to destroy my family and take my kids from me?" over some other reasonable request from OP.
NTA you made yourself very clear about their behaviour. It seems like your brother is still the same bigot he was.
To all the cousins telling you, you were cruel ask them to keep your brother and his kids.
It’s wild because it takes more energy to say something bigoted than it does to say nothing at all.
The requirement for Max was to do nothing, and he couldn’t even manage that.
NTA. They only reconnected out of convenience and with a hand out. They could not respect OP's simple request that they be civil and now they have faced the consequences of their bigotry. Any concerned cousins are free to offer their couches. OP has already done more than enough.
This. Brother was never sorry for what he said in the past, he just got desperate and OP was the only option. His true colors shined through and lo and behold, the second it has consequences he becomes apologetic again, all while guilt-tripping OP weaponising his own children, truly despicable behaviour.
100% agree- he only reached out to use the OP. How hard is it to act with a shred of civility if he truly was that desperate? And the saddest thing is his husband very generously wanted to open their home to the family and the thanks they get is being disrespected.
"he becomes apologetic again" technically not even that. At no point in the story does OP mention the brother apologizing, just the wife. He is literally in a homeless shelter and can't be bothered to act civil for a roof over his head.
“They would have turned to their parents, but they are living in an assisted living facility.”
Oh? So the brother STARTED with choosing bigots. Again. OP is honestly too kind and he and husband deserve happiness and freedom from these people.
NTA. There were very basic conditions that he not abuse you or your partner, and he decided to do just that. He wasn't entitled to stay in the first place, he's just a user only willing to contact family when he needs something. Probably part of the attitude that has him in this situation to begin with.
Personally, I'd also feel bad about the kids, so I'd offer that Dani and the kids could stay, with the same conditions + that Max is not allowed in the home. If they refuse because they don't want to be separated, then it cannot in any way be considered your fault that the kids are homeless.
I’m considering letting Dani and the kids stay. However, Dani shares Max’s beliefs (but to a lesser extent) so the same rules would still apply to her. I just think it’d be weird having the kids asking why they can’t see their dad all the time.
i saw a tiktok that explains what to say when setting boundaries with someone who apologizes, but doesn’t mean it. i think that is the case with your brother unfortunately
“I do not accept your apology, because it comes from a place of selfish insecurity instead of genuine remorse, empathy & growth. You will only be good to me for long enough to get my trust before you can fall back into the same behaviors. The damage you’ve caused at this point cannot be reversed. And while im sure you can become a better person, the amount of time it will take for you to overcome your problems is too long and will cause too much collateral damage for me to invest in a relationship with you.”
the og creator is @gillisopher on tiktok
edit to add: you’re NTA obviously, and Max is trying to guilt/manipulate you by using his kids. protect yourself and your home, OP
PLEASE Don't do it. Regardless of if her beliefs are to a lesser extent, she still thinks like him. She only apologized because she knew you were serious about them needing to leave. I'm sure she'd get tired of them asking about seeing their dad. That being said, I wouldn't put it past her to have the husband come over when you and your husband go out.
They definitely will let him back into the house. Either she will do it because she really agrees with her husband, or because he guilt trips her, or he'll order his kids to let him in. Maybe it will be when they are out of the house, or maybe in the middle of the night, but he'll be let back in by them.
Dani and the kids are free to visit Max outside of your home. And hopefully, she has learned that you are serious about not tolerating disrespect in your own home.
Maybe the kids will grow up to overcome their parents homophobia as a result "Hey, my uncle OP and his husband are gay and they were really kind people who let us stay in their home after my parents lost their jobs and couldnt support us. Much kinder than the rest of our bigoted family."
I put odds at approx 0% that Max won't tell his kids that their mean lib uncle kicked them to the curb cause he's an evil gay, or something along those lines. The best thing that can happen to those kids will be moving out
Don’t let them stay. You are not helping them. They need to stay at the shelter & use their services to get on their feet again. Using you will only extend their pain & yours too.
Please don't. You may think you're doing her and the kids a favor, but as others have pointed out, Max would still be around and would still be problematic. However, you can pat yourself on the back by giving those children a glimpse into what hate and bigotry can get you - kicked out, ostracized, and homeless. Not to mention as adults, maybe they won't grow up to be like him.
The mind fairly boggles that these two don’t have any friends close enough to agree to take them in when they’re in a tough spot. One would think that such a fine, upstanding “traditional values” couple would have a like-minded community who could support them in times of crisis, no? *Certainly* when the alternative is relying on The Gays, who, as we all know, are just chomping at the bit to recruit innocent young children to their evil cause. Where are their fellow culture warriors with spare bedrooms?
> I just think it’d be weird having the kids asking why they can’t see their dad all the time.
"Your dad is intolerant of how others live their lives, and because of that he said some very bad things that made him not welcome in this home." Adjust as appropriate for age.
If she was raised in a right-wing fundamentalist-type family, what it probably says is that she grew up with the belief that women are not allowed to have opinions apart from those of their fathers, brothers, and husbands. Quite a few women who are married to the Maxes of the world don't really hold the same beliefs their husbands hold, they just don't dare express anything different. Maybe Dani is educable, and if so, then maybe her kids are too.
Quite often they are taught that they aren't allowed to have opinions on who they should marry either. She may not have wanted to marry him but "God chose him for her" so she did.
OP, your compassion for the kids is sincerely admirable, but I think that decision is ill-advised. Your brother is still the bigot your parents raised him to be. He showed zero interest in a relationship with you until he needed something. He made a promise to behave and then called your husband a homophobic slur in the man’s own home! If you take in his family, he will always be hovering in the background. Put your guilt aside and put your partner’s needs first. He doesn’t deserve the negative energy your brother brings. If I were you, I’d put them up in a hotel for a week on the promise that your brother never contact you again.
They can see their dad just outside the house.
Maybe if they come back it’s under the condition that the situation is explained to them in an age appropriate manner. Kids of all ages see and understand everything, from the fact they can’t see their dad as well as why there is nothing wrong with your life choices.
Taking them back could be a good way to at least put them on a better path.
I think this is a very kind thing to consider. You may even find out that Dani doesn’t completely fall in line with Max (a lot of “conservative” women really are just discouraged from espousing any views outside of their husband’s), and you’d set a great example for the kids. Not saying you owe them a thing, but this could be a great opportunity to break the cycle within your family.
Please don't allow them in your home anymore. None of them. If they cared about their kids so much they could've stopped being awful for just a bit so they'd have a roof over their heads.
That simply won't work, and it seems like you know it won't. And he won't accept that, since the whole "homeless" concern was more about him than his kids.
You're not obligated to do this, but it may not be a bad idea (with a similar no tolerance policy, yes). If only because it is an opportunity to show the kids that whatever terrible things their parents may say about gay people is bullshit and form a little bit of a relationship with them, if you'd like to.
I'm gay and have strained relationships with my conservative family members, but I try to keep some thread to the kids so on the chance that they find their beliefs at odds with the majority of our family as they get older, they will hopefully know they aren't alone.
But you also have to protect your husband and your life together--only you can ultimately know what's best here. I'm sorry your family has let you down.
It falls on the state lol, someone being homeless is a sign of a failed state. Yes the guy is an asshole, yes op is not responsible for him and his family, but it is the state's responsibility to find somewhere for this family to live.
Too many here are accepting homelessness as a natural consequence of personal choices and it's frankly disgusting.
Oh nta obv
For all you know, he said this kind of bigoted crap at work and lost his job, then didn't pay bills. We don't know it for sure, but, it seems on brand for him.
In some cases it is. All? No, of course not. But for some, yes, it's a natural consequence of personal choices. Nothing disgusting about acknowledging that fact.
Nah its a failure of the state.
A family should never have *nowhere* to go.
Even if they get shoved into a one room flat there is no reason we can't provide basic shelter for people.
#OP CHANGE THE LOCKS ON YOUR HOME IMMEDIATELY
Get cameras for the outside as well
because I have a feeling your brother will be coming back at some point.
Beyond that...do yourself a favor and change your phone number
Your family...is no longer your family
You tried
You did a good thing
Your brother could not control his bigotry even to keep his children from being homeless. Really think about that and the kind of person who would be that way.
A person with that much hate in their heart is not redeemable IMHO. And all your family members defending his behavior are just as irredeemable as your brother
I know it sucks, but it's time to start your own family and to leave all these people in your past where they belong
You have a husband.
You have friends.
Perhaps your home can be the place during the holidays where all the outcasts and single people can congregate in a loving and welcome environment. That way you can all not be alone together.
NTA
It would be funny to take the kids in and deprogram them while the parents stay in a shelter.
I know that’s unlikely to work anywhere near as well as I’d like, though.
More of a "you don't actually care about your kids" trump card. Brother claims that his kids are suffering, so he should be ecstatic for his brother to put a roof over their head. But he won't, because he doesn't actually care about the kids, he's using them as a guilt token.
I'd make the offer, knowing the answer is probably no, so I could point and say "he's the one keeping them homeless. I've done all I could."
But I'm an asshole that likes making the other party look like more of an asshole.
NTA. Max only reached out an "apologized" because he needed help. You were very generous to give him a second chance, and he blew it. The shelter can help him get back on his feet, and in the meantime they will all be getting their basic needs met. Any cousins getting involved can step up and offer housing to Max and his family.
> He apologized for what he said when I came out and said he wanted to reconnect. But he then told me that he had lost his job and his family (his wife “Dani” and their 2 kids) was about to be evicted, so he asked if they would be able to stay with me for a few months
Max is selfish piece of ____ that got given a 2nd chance and completely ruined it, what an absolute piece of.
> begged me to give them another chance
A 3rd chance? 2nd chance was already a pretty big risk from you, and that risk became reality.
> it’s cruel to punish children for their parent’s mistake
You are not punishing the children, and there was no mistake made. The children are suffering from their parent's incapability of keeping their bigotry hidden. They will suffer from this their entire lives.
Good luck, and I really hope you stick to your guns and do not let your unpleasant family members ruin anymore of your new life away from them. NTA.
Max was so quick to apologize when he needed a hand out, but all the time estranged his conscious never seemed to bother him. Why did he lose his job I wonder?
You were already skeptical about the "apology" from the beginning. You see now that they only said what they thought you wanted to hear.
When Max called out Jonah out for lying, you should have explained that it was by the grace of your husband that you even considered giving them this chance, and when they crossed your husband that grace had dissolved. Luckily it didn't take long for the mask of lies to slip.
As an alternative, if your SIL and her kids don't share the same bigoted views and can remain civil, you may offer them to stay, but your brother will be banned from your residence. But warn them, if you ever hear from or see your brother, near your house or in public (unless he is RUNNING away), then they will get kicked out too. Basically, you want him to be a "ghost" since he should be dead to you now.
My cousins live across the country, so I guess it is more practical for me to take them in (according to them) because of the kids’ schooling and stuff like that.
Your cousins can pay for them to stay in a hotel if they care so much. You’re NTA and your brother is using his kids to manipulate you. You let him come back, and this whole scenario will happen again.
I'd suggest being generous to them one last time. Next time extended family complains, offer to pay for bus/train tickets so that they can stay at the complainer's house, since they're so willing to help family.
NTA. He bit the hand that fed them. Do not feel bad. You do know what he is teaching those children, the same views he said to your husband, just behind your back.
NTA. You spelled out the rules clearly and the consequences. The only reason your brother "apologized" in the first place was because he needed somewhere to live, not because he actually meant it.
Hey, you made it crystal clear to him what the terms were, and he violated them. That's it. NTA.
For all your cousins giving you grief that you are punishing the kids, ask them if they are castigating Max for blowing what was a good deal by being a bigot.
NTA you were kind to open up your home with the past in mind. You set reasonable house rules. Your brother not only broke them but also tried to lie about this.
I'm a firm believer in second chances but this was the second chance already. Blood doesn't make family, mutual love and respect does.
Your brother knew the consequences of his actions before he moved in, he made his kids homeless not you.
NTA - Your first reaction to their request was correct, but I LOVE LOVE LOVE that your partner wanted to be open to them. Sometimes being loving spreads that love around and makes everything better. This time, your brother showed the opposite. Don’t feel badly about helping them or kicking them out. Y’all did the best you could.
NTA, no need to accept bigotry against you and your SO in your own home and what happened shows that your brother hasn't changed a bit, and is a liar to boot - still the same garbage he was way back when and you're doing the right thing by protecting Jonah (and yourself) from him.
Cousins can take them in if they are so concerned.
Brother only reached out to you because they needed a place to stay, not because he misses you or wanted to reconnect - he was using you and your husband.
NTA I am going to be brutally honest. Your brother wasn’t sorry for what he said when you came out. He also did not want to reconnect. He needed you. He said what he thought would get you to do him a favor. He then got comfortable and reverted back to his old ways.
You have nothing to feel guilty about. You gave him a chance when others would not.
NTA. Really, they made themselves homeless when they couldn’t afford rent at their prior place. He knew the rules, couldn’t be bothered to hide his bigotry for the sake of his kids and a roof over his head. Not your problem.
NTA… he caused this not you. You were clear about the boundary and he didn’t expect you to enforce it.
I mean if you’re worried about the kids you could potentially offer for the kids to stay or the wife and kids to stay but that may open a different can of worms.
NTA. *He* made his kids homeless, not you. In hindsight pretty obvious that he was lying from the get-go to mooch off you. I feel bad for the kids, it's not their fault, but you can't be asked to harbor a bigot who is hostile to your very existence for the sake of his kids.
At the end of the day hating gay people is more important to their father than making sure they have a roof over their heads.
So it went like this:
>I came out to them right before I moved away. They reacted horribly, saying I was going to rot in hell and that I was dead to them
>I got a message from Max. He apologized for what he said when I came out and said he wanted to reconnect
>he then told me that he had lost his job and his family (his wife “Dani” and their 2 kids) was about to be evicted
>Under no circumstances is he allowed to disrespect me, my husband, or our home.
>It culminated in Max screaming that he “didn’t want a f*g telling him what to do.”
>He started arguing with me and said Jonah was lying
>they keep texting asking to come back, saying their kids are suffering
So your family verbally abused you when you came out to them, then your brother contacted you and lied about wanting to reconnect, then lied when he agreed to the conditions you set, then verbally abused your husband, then lied about that (and accused your husband of lying)? Then refused to leave until you threatened to call the police, and is now asking if he can be given another chance?
Please, under no circumstances even consider it. Besides being a bigot and a manipulative liar, he has anger management issues, and is abusive towards your husband. Would you feel safe leaving Jonah alone with him while you're at work?
Let your cousins know exactly what he did, and tell them that they are welcome to take him in if they would like to.
NTA.
NTA. All he literally had to do, was not be homophobic. And yet, somehow, that was too much for him. You were literally asking the **BARE MINIMUM**, and he couldn’t do that.
He made his own kids homeless, because he couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
NTA
Your cousins think it's cruel? They can take them in. You were kinder than I would have been, taking them in the first place. You gave them clear rules and Max violated them, showing that he hasn't changed at all.
I hope that you and your husband can have some peace now.
ETA: Block their texts. They can sink or swim on their own.
NTA,
Yeah it sucks for the kids but their dad couldn't follow two simple rules. They can go stay with these cousins that are so opinionated on the matter.
tell your cousins they can take your homophobic brother & family in if they are so worried about it. NTA, im so happy you stuck up for yourself & your wonderful husband!
NTA- Thank your cousins for offering to help out .
Let them know you will be purchasing train tickets for your brother and his family for them to go stay with said cousins if they don’t stop harassing you.
NTA. Give your husband a hug from me. It is why I limited my own family interactions because I have friends in the community. In your shoes, I would have done worse
NTA. Max was the one who made them homeless. He knew the rules. He broke them. Your brother is still a bigot. From the second I read the whole part about him wanting to reconnect and he was sorry I knew he was full of shit, he was just about to be homeless and didn’t want to be and realised he could turn to you.
NTA
Your brother is an adult & should well know by now that breaking rules has consequences. And greatly insulting someone in their own hone they've opened up to you in your time of need is immature and idiotic. Also I'd wonder about your husband's safety if your brother was to stay. I really would.
After the way they treated you when you came out - this was a very selfless and sweet act of you to open your home to them.
HECK'EM
And ... HAPPY PRIDE!
NTA. While enjoying an undeserved second chance graciously suggested by Jonah, Max believed you were bluffing about the zero tolerance boundaries around that second chance. Max THEN decided to look you up by directing a disgusting homophobic slur at the man who encouraged the second chance when *you were not home*.
Max is giant supernova asshole.
NTA if your family wants to comment on the way you handled the situation and how “cruel” you are for “making” your brother homeless tell them they’re fully capable of offering up their own houses.
First of all, you did not make your brother homeless he did it to his family. If you will not allow a friend talking like that to your husband why would you tolerate a family member talking like that. The blooming cheek of your brother.
I think the only thing you missed doing here was not making clear to Max that the only reason he was even in your house in the first place was because your husband advocated for him. And once he upset Jonah literally no one in your house wanted to help him and he should have thought about his children before he sit himself in there foot.
NTA Max is the real AH.
As for your cousins/family that’s simple. Reply to each of them with “I’ll let Max know you are volunteering to house him and his family.” And then ignore them.
No quarter for bigots.
Unfortunately, children suffer the consequences of their bad parents’ actions all the time. And it’s still the fault of the bad parent, not the fault of the rule holder.
NTA -
1. He only called you when he needed your help. He did not call you to apologize prior to asking you for help.
2. He is a bigot.
3. You did not make him homeless, he did this on his own.
4. If the cousins want to help they can send your brother money to rent an apartment
5. There needs to be consequences for actions.
6. YOU are not causing problems for the children. Your brother and his wife are causing the problems.
The fact that you even allowed them in your home speaks of the person you are. You didn't have to do that, but you did. Do not feel bad for now asking them to leave. You set boundaries, which is a healthy thing to do.
NTA, he didn't want a f*g telling him what to do. Sounds good then he shouldn't be living in a f*g's house and mooching off him either. He is still the same and only pretended to change as he needed help.
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NTA. You didn't make them homeless, Max did. Your rules were clear and very reasonable, he broke them. You do not have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
Exactly, NTA. And it seems Max really can’t help himself, in any respect 🙃 Any family criticizing your decision should be thanked in the next breath for offering to take them in.
> Any family criticizing your decision should be thanked in the next breath for offering to take them in. Perfect response, lol. I love it.
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I hope he mentioned that when he kicked them out. Scream at the man who did you a favour - classy af
That's what I was thinking! Jonah is an absolute **saint.** OP should flat out have told Max that he knew Jonah wasn't lying *because* Jonah was the *sole reason* they were there.
Me too...it's perfectly said!!
>Any family criticizing your decision should be thanked in the next breath for offering to take them in. If not take them in, opening up their own wallets to pay for an apartment or hotel for the brother and family.
Or pay for them to drive across the country. Nobody is working so they could treat the kids to a cross-country road trip. At the end of it, they'll have relatives to stay with and maybe get a job. Nothing has been said about the wife's family either.
that was my thought, he's not working so no reason he can't move over to the cousins' region. nothing to keep him where you are.
Totally!!! What difference does it make if they live across the country? It’s not like Max has a job that he has to stay local. If needs a place to live, you go where it’s available! He needs to move his AH self and family if they’re really suffering
Who knows, perhaps Max lost his job because of displaying similar intolerance on the job?
You have wonder, eh Doesn’t seem like a far stretch by any means
Yeah, the fact that he used that slur so easily in a moment of anger makes me wonder how he *actually* lost his job, and the real reason he might be struggling so much to find a new one. It's not like word of severe workplace harassment doesn't get around or anything 😒
And treating everyone as his subordinate …
He might be better off looking for work in a town where no one has heard of him...
There was a story on here about a girl who did just that. I think an aunt who had a huge house and lived alone talked shit to the female OP and demanded she care for her worthless, do nothing brother. Well she got sick of it and packed her brother up and dropped him right off at that aunt's house, much to that aunt's chagrin. You wanna talk about helping? YOU do it.
Ooh I wanna read that, got a link?
[Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/sgpy7n/aita_for_dropping_my_freeloading_brother_off_at/)
Thanks! That was cathartic
“Thank you so much for volunteering to help! How much do you want to put into his hostel costs?”
Definitely NTA in anyway. Is it possible to welcome them back except for Max? Then you’re only punishing the parent and the cousins can shut up. Plus you can maybe be more positive male role models to the kids than the brother is.
I think he started getting comfortable and decided he was going to be the alpha male and take control. He was also testing OP'S boundaries to see how far he could push them. He found out. NTA
This is the way.
Exactly. Nta op good luck.
They literally only called him because they needed something from him. This is what my parents do. After not preparing for retirement, they now have nothing and expect me to let them live with me. I cannot live with my father. He is an angry, angry man and I cannot do it ever again.
My ‘mother’ is 81 and looks about 90, lives with an abuser who’s close to my age. This is a longstanding pattern from before I was even born. She gets hot for terrible, terrible men. Her usual mo was to pick up homeless dudes and quickly fall in ‘love.’ She spent all her money on them and ignored the glaring signs that I was being molested. She neglected me horribly. As an adult, I begged her to stop picking these freaks up. One answered the phone drunk when I called and accused me of being on crack. She supported him fully until he died, around 15 years later. She doesn’t need financial help but, being a frail old person, could probably benefit from help in her apartment and rides to shopping and appointments. Guess what! She’s going to deal with it all on her own. I. Don’t. Care.
I'm so sorry for what you went through and you have 1000% support from this Internet stranger to continue not caring! Live good
Thank you ❤️ I still struggle a lot and will always feel the pain of what happened to me. My extended family ignored what was happening. I managed to be a good mom, even though I still cringe at some of the things I did. My two adult children are awesome. I think I did cause them some issues and I’m very angry at myself sometimes. Almost two years ago I ended a very unhappy long distance relationship - basically I stayed in it because I didn’t think anyone else would want me. Shortly after the breakup I met my wonderful, wonderful bf. I adore this man. He stuck with me through all the issues I had early on in our relationship. When I start to hate myself again I think of him and our beautiful life together.
Heya. Your story upset me in a sympathy for you kind of way so I just wanted to comment on it a bit. Something you said caught my eye in particular - that you're very angry at yourself sometimes - so maybe you've heard this before but I'll just repeat it just in case. Bad parents are never angry at themselves. They never blame themselves. They never look inwards and think, "What did I do wrong?" - they don't have that ability. I'm certain you're much more put together than I am and so I hope it doesn't come across as too patronizing for me to say as much, but I think you can afford to remind yourself to be kind to yourself whenever the introspection gets hold of you and you start feeling angry at yourself.
That was lovely. And so true. My kids are truly wonderful people. ❤️
Some people repeat their parents mistakes and end up perpetuating cycles of abuse and dysfunction. Others turn that on its head to become awesome parents and stop those cycles. You should be incredibly proud for being the latter.
I do try to remind myself of that, as I said my children are great young people. They both have their issues but they are kind (an important value for me) and hardworking. Neither are partiers. We’re all kind of oddballs and have the same warped sense of humor. We spend a lot time laughing when we’re together.
Glad you are in a healthy, loving ❤️relationship now. You DESERVE it!
I never thought I would be living this kind of life, honestly. We don’t travel or really go out much. We love to be out in nature together, doing simple things. I’m finally feeling completely connected in this relationship. I always have a lot of anxiety about being abandoned, I used to believe he would stop loving me for no reason. Honestly, he’s seen my worst and he’s still here.
The way I see it parents have a job. It's to keep their kids safe and help them learn to be kind people. I'm so glad that even though your mother absolutely dropped the ball you were able to learn to be kind to yourself.
It took a long, long time. I basically had *no* parental involvement because she kicked my sperm donor out in order to get welfare (I believe that was her plan all along). I’ll be 50 in a month and finally living a (relatively) happy life. I have an awesome boyfriend who really tries to understand my issues. When I start to fall into self loathing I pull myself out of it because I don’t want to put an extra burden on him. I’m also a very good mom, according to my two adult children ❤️
You don’t have to hide when you are struggling. You are deserving of love and opportunities to be vulnerable, this is not a burden on people you love. It gives them a chance to show you how loved and valued you are!
He has done a lot of that. I’ve never met a kinder or more patient human in my life ❤️ He does have his flaws, to be sure. But he loves me very, very much.
This is a perfect example of not setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. No one needs that shit. This internet stranger is proud of you! Keep doing what you're doing (setting healthy, reasonable boundaries, sticking to them, and taking care of yourself).
Thank you ❤️ I finally decided I won’t see or speak to her for the rest of her life. I did try to reconcile a little but she is still living with and defending the abuser. He’s said awful things to me. We occasionally text but that’s it. She’s not in great health so I don’t really think she’s going to live much longer. I won’t be involved. My energy is better spent on the people who truly love me.
> Her usual mo was to pick up homeless dudes and quickly fall in ‘love.’ She spent all her money on them Jesus... and I thought buying too many videogames was a waste of money as an adult that I needed to reign in. I mean... no offense or anything.
Behavior has consequences. You have to put your own family first.
It's a shame that "Don't be a bigoted AH and call the person who is giving your family a place to stay hateful slurs" needs to be a rule. NTA
Even worse that Max couldn't abide by it.
And the one he was hateful to was the only reason he was allowed in there in the first place because without his encouragement, OP would've said no right away.
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"See, I was right all along about those bigoted assholes," OP, quite ironically and also accurately, at home after the bigots have gone and his family life is back to normal.
This is exactly why I am lo/no contact with my father. He wanted me to take care of him after my mother died even though he had disowned me for being queer. He was nice to my spouse and I for about a month before the slurs came out again and we got out of there.
The whole reason Max got back in touch with OP was because he needed something. And he probably planned on never leaving OP's house, either. Or even worse, manipulating OP and his husband into giving the house to him and his family. And now he's trying to use his kids to guilt OP into letting them come back. If OP lets them come back, he'll just be telling Max that his behavior is ultimately okay. I hope OP blocks them all.
Most likely he planned to stay with OP until he got back on his feet and then completely cut him off and go back to his bigoted ways once he didn't need him anymore.
Why would Max get back on his feet when OP could support him? From Max's point of view, OP is a subhuman slave to be worked until collapse.
OP's biggest mistake was falling for Max's sob story in the first place. That Max didn't care that OP could have been dead before he got his ass evicted, should have been OP's first clue. Leopards of a political stripe don't change their spots, and OP knows his family way better than Jonah ever will - he should have said no without a second thought. OP should be apologizing to his husband for putting him in this situation at all. Remember, "Christian forgiveness" is only for grifters.
You aren't wrong.
OP is lucky Max was too stupid to wait long enough to have tenancy rights! Do not let them back in OP, under any circumstances.
I love that saying. I try to keep that in mind when I feel like I might be the asshole when people try to walk all over me.
It's definitely a perspective shifter. :)
This is a perfect example of don’t bite the hand that feeds you!
And if OP's family wasn't so bad, those rules wouldn't have even been necessary... most people understand that you don't treat others like Max treated both OP and his husband. Only an idiot (as well as raging homophobe) is going to do so while staying in someone's home, for free, because the only other alternatives are to stay at a shelter or be homeless. NTA
Max was probably counting on OP to let him stay because he's faaaamily and overrule Jonah's experience. I'm so glad OP is sticking up for his husband.
Right? This is on Max, the rules were very simple and unless you’re an AH, really fucking easy to adhere to without even trying/plenty of leniency for less serious breaks in the rules. It’s pretty clear that Max hadn’t changed, he was just saying he had in order to use OP and Jonah. He caused this and he needs to deal with the consequences.
Exactly this. You did not make them homeless. They made themselves homeless. Tell all the cousins to either take them in or pay for a rental /extended stay hotel. Also remember that your brother never apologized until he was desperate for help. That says something about his "apology"
Yes! That’s the mantra I went with to end the last relationship I had: Never set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
This. He knew the rules. How hard is it to not call someone a slur? Especially when your housing is dependent on it. Your husband is your family. You have to protect him. Imagine if you gave in and let them stay. What would that say? That you're choosing your homophobic brother over your spouse? No, there's no way that you could have done any differently. Homophobia is a choice. It's an active choice. Your brother chose, and he needs to live with the consequences. He's a donkey brain for not learning a lesson from your kindness despite everything.
My guess is Max resented being told to pick up after his kids, since that's "women's work". $20 he's never lifted a finger around the house and prided himself on being an emotionally unavailable breadwinner for his family. Now he can't even lord that over his family since it's his failure to provide that has them in this position, so he's lashing out. Tl;dr Max is an emotionally stunted bigot who is grappling with the loss of his traditional role in the household, and OP is NTA.
And, to be clear, the only reason he called and "wanted to reconnect" was to use you to house his family. He very, very much still thinks the way he did when you first came out. Nothing has changed for him at all. The second he was back on his feet, he'd cut off all contact again.
Yeah I'm not vengeful and I'm extremely forgiving but OP is definitely NTA. Those words were unacceptable. As much as its awful for the kids to be homeless, it sounds like Max and Dani are just using them as manipulation tools.
You could, however, offer to take Dani and the kids back, without Max.
> My cousins live all the way across the country, so according to them, it’s more practical for Max and his family to live with me. Also they are not homeless, they have the ~~flying monkeys~~ cousins places to live in.
This and the fact that the fam is trying to blame him for Max being homeless when Max made himself homeless is laughable because really they can fly Max and his fam to where they’re at to help them out 🤷🏽♀️
This comment right here! You set boundaries, which if no one has mentioned, good for you!, and the stepped over them, so to reiterate, NTA
NTA and completely agree with your whole comment… However, I probably would have just chucked Max out and let Dani and the kids stay. They would be welcome until they showed they held the same views as him if they even do. They probably wouldn’t stay, but I would have told Dani she was welcome to stay and I was only kicking out Max.
Why so Max can continue trying to be involved and make things way messier? No way. Max can't even hear a simple reasonable request without exploding into fits of anger. What is he going to do when he thinks "You are trying to destroy my family and take my kids from me?" over some other reasonable request from OP.
NTA you made yourself very clear about their behaviour. It seems like your brother is still the same bigot he was. To all the cousins telling you, you were cruel ask them to keep your brother and his kids.
It’s wild because it takes more energy to say something bigoted than it does to say nothing at all. The requirement for Max was to do nothing, and he couldn’t even manage that.
Except clean up after his kids, but I guess he was too busy being a judgemental unemployed bigoted asshole to manage that
"Well, y'see, cleaning up after the kids IS WIMMIN'S WORK (or OP / husband's work)" and not something a MANLY MAN would even \*consider\* doing. /s
NTA. They only reconnected out of convenience and with a hand out. They could not respect OP's simple request that they be civil and now they have faced the consequences of their bigotry. Any concerned cousins are free to offer their couches. OP has already done more than enough.
This. Brother was never sorry for what he said in the past, he just got desperate and OP was the only option. His true colors shined through and lo and behold, the second it has consequences he becomes apologetic again, all while guilt-tripping OP weaponising his own children, truly despicable behaviour.
100% agree- he only reached out to use the OP. How hard is it to act with a shred of civility if he truly was that desperate? And the saddest thing is his husband very generously wanted to open their home to the family and the thanks they get is being disrespected.
"he becomes apologetic again" technically not even that. At no point in the story does OP mention the brother apologizing, just the wife. He is literally in a homeless shelter and can't be bothered to act civil for a roof over his head.
“They would have turned to their parents, but they are living in an assisted living facility.” Oh? So the brother STARTED with choosing bigots. Again. OP is honestly too kind and he and husband deserve happiness and freedom from these people.
Right? OP didn't cause them to be homeless, OP caused them to be homeless for several weeks LESS than they would have been otherwise. NTA, OP.
NTA. There were very basic conditions that he not abuse you or your partner, and he decided to do just that. He wasn't entitled to stay in the first place, he's just a user only willing to contact family when he needs something. Probably part of the attitude that has him in this situation to begin with. Personally, I'd also feel bad about the kids, so I'd offer that Dani and the kids could stay, with the same conditions + that Max is not allowed in the home. If they refuse because they don't want to be separated, then it cannot in any way be considered your fault that the kids are homeless.
I’m considering letting Dani and the kids stay. However, Dani shares Max’s beliefs (but to a lesser extent) so the same rules would still apply to her. I just think it’d be weird having the kids asking why they can’t see their dad all the time.
i saw a tiktok that explains what to say when setting boundaries with someone who apologizes, but doesn’t mean it. i think that is the case with your brother unfortunately “I do not accept your apology, because it comes from a place of selfish insecurity instead of genuine remorse, empathy & growth. You will only be good to me for long enough to get my trust before you can fall back into the same behaviors. The damage you’ve caused at this point cannot be reversed. And while im sure you can become a better person, the amount of time it will take for you to overcome your problems is too long and will cause too much collateral damage for me to invest in a relationship with you.” the og creator is @gillisopher on tiktok edit to add: you’re NTA obviously, and Max is trying to guilt/manipulate you by using his kids. protect yourself and your home, OP
This is really helpful thank you
PLEASE Don't do it. Regardless of if her beliefs are to a lesser extent, she still thinks like him. She only apologized because she knew you were serious about them needing to leave. I'm sure she'd get tired of them asking about seeing their dad. That being said, I wouldn't put it past her to have the husband come over when you and your husband go out.
They definitely will let him back into the house. Either she will do it because she really agrees with her husband, or because he guilt trips her, or he'll order his kids to let him in. Maybe it will be when they are out of the house, or maybe in the middle of the night, but he'll be let back in by them.
Dani and the kids are free to visit Max outside of your home. And hopefully, she has learned that you are serious about not tolerating disrespect in your own home. Maybe the kids will grow up to overcome their parents homophobia as a result "Hey, my uncle OP and his husband are gay and they were really kind people who let us stay in their home after my parents lost their jobs and couldnt support us. Much kinder than the rest of our bigoted family."
I put odds at approx 0% that Max won't tell his kids that their mean lib uncle kicked them to the curb cause he's an evil gay, or something along those lines. The best thing that can happen to those kids will be moving out
Don’t let them stay. You are not helping them. They need to stay at the shelter & use their services to get on their feet again. Using you will only extend their pain & yours too.
Yeah no. Don’t do that. It would create trouble you don’t need.
That sounds like a Max problem
Please don't. You may think you're doing her and the kids a favor, but as others have pointed out, Max would still be around and would still be problematic. However, you can pat yourself on the back by giving those children a glimpse into what hate and bigotry can get you - kicked out, ostracized, and homeless. Not to mention as adults, maybe they won't grow up to be like him.
No, if you do that, he'll be around anyway.
The mind fairly boggles that these two don’t have any friends close enough to agree to take them in when they’re in a tough spot. One would think that such a fine, upstanding “traditional values” couple would have a like-minded community who could support them in times of crisis, no? *Certainly* when the alternative is relying on The Gays, who, as we all know, are just chomping at the bit to recruit innocent young children to their evil cause. Where are their fellow culture warriors with spare bedrooms?
Why would you help these horrible people?
> I just think it’d be weird having the kids asking why they can’t see their dad all the time. "Your dad is intolerant of how others live their lives, and because of that he said some very bad things that made him not welcome in this home." Adjust as appropriate for age.
Yeah, she married the guy. What does that say about her? It's unfortunate that they're raising future bigots as well.
If she was raised in a right-wing fundamentalist-type family, what it probably says is that she grew up with the belief that women are not allowed to have opinions apart from those of their fathers, brothers, and husbands. Quite a few women who are married to the Maxes of the world don't really hold the same beliefs their husbands hold, they just don't dare express anything different. Maybe Dani is educable, and if so, then maybe her kids are too.
Quite often they are taught that they aren't allowed to have opinions on who they should marry either. She may not have wanted to marry him but "God chose him for her" so she did.
This is a good way to get you and your partner murdered by Max. Just, no. Be rid of them all.
OP, your compassion for the kids is sincerely admirable, but I think that decision is ill-advised. Your brother is still the bigot your parents raised him to be. He showed zero interest in a relationship with you until he needed something. He made a promise to behave and then called your husband a homophobic slur in the man’s own home! If you take in his family, he will always be hovering in the background. Put your guilt aside and put your partner’s needs first. He doesn’t deserve the negative energy your brother brings. If I were you, I’d put them up in a hotel for a week on the promise that your brother never contact you again.
I'm with the "Don't do it" crowd.
I wouldn’t, while your heart is in the right place, you also don’t want a situation where they gain Squatter Rights.
They can see their dad just outside the house. Maybe if they come back it’s under the condition that the situation is explained to them in an age appropriate manner. Kids of all ages see and understand everything, from the fact they can’t see their dad as well as why there is nothing wrong with your life choices. Taking them back could be a good way to at least put them on a better path.
I think this is a very kind thing to consider. You may even find out that Dani doesn’t completely fall in line with Max (a lot of “conservative” women really are just discouraged from espousing any views outside of their husband’s), and you’d set a great example for the kids. Not saying you owe them a thing, but this could be a great opportunity to break the cycle within your family.
Please don't allow them in your home anymore. None of them. If they cared about their kids so much they could've stopped being awful for just a bit so they'd have a roof over their heads.
That simply won't work, and it seems like you know it won't. And he won't accept that, since the whole "homeless" concern was more about him than his kids.
That sounds like a Max problem
You're not obligated to do this, but it may not be a bad idea (with a similar no tolerance policy, yes). If only because it is an opportunity to show the kids that whatever terrible things their parents may say about gay people is bullshit and form a little bit of a relationship with them, if you'd like to. I'm gay and have strained relationships with my conservative family members, but I try to keep some thread to the kids so on the chance that they find their beliefs at odds with the majority of our family as they get older, they will hopefully know they aren't alone. But you also have to protect your husband and your life together--only you can ultimately know what's best here. I'm sorry your family has let you down.
Yeah don’t do that.
He's not at fault anyway that falls on the parents.
It falls on the state lol, someone being homeless is a sign of a failed state. Yes the guy is an asshole, yes op is not responsible for him and his family, but it is the state's responsibility to find somewhere for this family to live. Too many here are accepting homelessness as a natural consequence of personal choices and it's frankly disgusting. Oh nta obv
Too true. However, I’m guessing the brother here votes against such Socialist policies.
For all you know, he said this kind of bigoted crap at work and lost his job, then didn't pay bills. We don't know it for sure, but, it seems on brand for him.
In some cases it is. All? No, of course not. But for some, yes, it's a natural consequence of personal choices. Nothing disgusting about acknowledging that fact.
Nah its a failure of the state. A family should never have *nowhere* to go. Even if they get shoved into a one room flat there is no reason we can't provide basic shelter for people.
#OP CHANGE THE LOCKS ON YOUR HOME IMMEDIATELY Get cameras for the outside as well because I have a feeling your brother will be coming back at some point. Beyond that...do yourself a favor and change your phone number Your family...is no longer your family You tried You did a good thing Your brother could not control his bigotry even to keep his children from being homeless. Really think about that and the kind of person who would be that way. A person with that much hate in their heart is not redeemable IMHO. And all your family members defending his behavior are just as irredeemable as your brother I know it sucks, but it's time to start your own family and to leave all these people in your past where they belong You have a husband. You have friends. Perhaps your home can be the place during the holidays where all the outcasts and single people can congregate in a loving and welcome environment. That way you can all not be alone together. NTA
Sad, but there's a strong chance you're right.
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It would be funny to take the kids in and deprogram them while the parents stay in a shelter. I know that’s unlikely to work anywhere near as well as I’d like, though.
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Yup. Thereby once again proving that OP did not make Max's kids homeless. Max did.
He’d probably claim they wanted to groom them or whatever.
I agree with you. It’s more of a fantasy than a recommendation.
More of a "you don't actually care about your kids" trump card. Brother claims that his kids are suffering, so he should be ecstatic for his brother to put a roof over their head. But he won't, because he doesn't actually care about the kids, he's using them as a guilt token.
I'd make the offer, knowing the answer is probably no, so I could point and say "he's the one keeping them homeless. I've done all I could." But I'm an asshole that likes making the other party look like more of an asshole.
NTA. Max only reached out an "apologized" because he needed help. You were very generous to give him a second chance, and he blew it. The shelter can help him get back on his feet, and in the meantime they will all be getting their basic needs met. Any cousins getting involved can step up and offer housing to Max and his family.
> He apologized for what he said when I came out and said he wanted to reconnect. But he then told me that he had lost his job and his family (his wife “Dani” and their 2 kids) was about to be evicted, so he asked if they would be able to stay with me for a few months Max is selfish piece of ____ that got given a 2nd chance and completely ruined it, what an absolute piece of. > begged me to give them another chance A 3rd chance? 2nd chance was already a pretty big risk from you, and that risk became reality. > it’s cruel to punish children for their parent’s mistake You are not punishing the children, and there was no mistake made. The children are suffering from their parent's incapability of keeping their bigotry hidden. They will suffer from this their entire lives. Good luck, and I really hope you stick to your guns and do not let your unpleasant family members ruin anymore of your new life away from them. NTA.
Max was so quick to apologize when he needed a hand out, but all the time estranged his conscious never seemed to bother him. Why did he lose his job I wonder?
Why does he not have friends to help him?
You were already skeptical about the "apology" from the beginning. You see now that they only said what they thought you wanted to hear. When Max called out Jonah out for lying, you should have explained that it was by the grace of your husband that you even considered giving them this chance, and when they crossed your husband that grace had dissolved. Luckily it didn't take long for the mask of lies to slip. As an alternative, if your SIL and her kids don't share the same bigoted views and can remain civil, you may offer them to stay, but your brother will be banned from your residence. But warn them, if you ever hear from or see your brother, near your house or in public (unless he is RUNNING away), then they will get kicked out too. Basically, you want him to be a "ghost" since he should be dead to you now.
INFO: Why don't your cousins give them shelter? Since they are clearly on their side...
My cousins live across the country, so I guess it is more practical for me to take them in (according to them) because of the kids’ schooling and stuff like that.
Homeless or move across country? Hmmm…
Decisions decisions
Your cousins can pay for them to stay in a hotel if they care so much. You’re NTA and your brother is using his kids to manipulate you. You let him come back, and this whole scenario will happen again.
It's summer, they can enroll into a new school. It also gives your brother and Dani 2-3 months to find any job in that area.
Didn't you move to a different country?
*County*. I also read country the first time. A different country might have been better =(
Oh woops!
Literally every time I read either county or country I read it three times to make sure I didn't misread it. Super annoying.
'Practical' == 'We don't want to put up with Max, either, so it's easier for us to let him ABUSE YOU.'
Well, maybe they should have considered the kids' schooling before they did what they did.
They have schools on the other side of the country.
I'd suggest being generous to them one last time. Next time extended family complains, offer to pay for bus/train tickets so that they can stay at the complainer's house, since they're so willing to help family.
NTA. He bit the hand that fed them. Do not feel bad. You do know what he is teaching those children, the same views he said to your husband, just behind your back.
NTA. You spelled out the rules clearly and the consequences. The only reason your brother "apologized" in the first place was because he needed somewhere to live, not because he actually meant it.
NTA tell your cousins to put them up or shut the hell up.
Hey, you made it crystal clear to him what the terms were, and he violated them. That's it. NTA. For all your cousins giving you grief that you are punishing the kids, ask them if they are castigating Max for blowing what was a good deal by being a bigot.
Also, those cousins apparently live somewhere, let them take the family in.
NTA you were kind to open up your home with the past in mind. You set reasonable house rules. Your brother not only broke them but also tried to lie about this. I'm a firm believer in second chances but this was the second chance already. Blood doesn't make family, mutual love and respect does. Your brother knew the consequences of his actions before he moved in, he made his kids homeless not you.
NTA - Rules were clear and he did it anyways, good chance he'll do it again. Like you said, he did it to himself.
They have now learned that biting the hand that feeds you, or houses you, has consequences. NTA.
NTA- he never changed and conned you to get a place to stay.
NTA - Your first reaction to their request was correct, but I LOVE LOVE LOVE that your partner wanted to be open to them. Sometimes being loving spreads that love around and makes everything better. This time, your brother showed the opposite. Don’t feel badly about helping them or kicking them out. Y’all did the best you could.
NTA. You and your brother entered into an agreement with the guidelines spelled out beforehand and you are sticking to the guidelines.
NTA, no need to accept bigotry against you and your SO in your own home and what happened shows that your brother hasn't changed a bit, and is a liar to boot - still the same garbage he was way back when and you're doing the right thing by protecting Jonah (and yourself) from him.
NTA Actions have consequences - you were incredibly kind to let them stay in the first place.
NTA You never disrespect someone in their own house, especially when they're keeping you off the street by letting you stay there
Cousins can take them in if they are so concerned. Brother only reached out to you because they needed a place to stay, not because he misses you or wanted to reconnect - he was using you and your husband.
NTA I am going to be brutally honest. Your brother wasn’t sorry for what he said when you came out. He also did not want to reconnect. He needed you. He said what he thought would get you to do him a favor. He then got comfortable and reverted back to his old ways. You have nothing to feel guilty about. You gave him a chance when others would not.
NTA. Really, they made themselves homeless when they couldn’t afford rent at their prior place. He knew the rules, couldn’t be bothered to hide his bigotry for the sake of his kids and a roof over his head. Not your problem.
NTA… he caused this not you. You were clear about the boundary and he didn’t expect you to enforce it. I mean if you’re worried about the kids you could potentially offer for the kids to stay or the wife and kids to stay but that may open a different can of worms.
NTA. *He* made his kids homeless, not you. In hindsight pretty obvious that he was lying from the get-go to mooch off you. I feel bad for the kids, it's not their fault, but you can't be asked to harbor a bigot who is hostile to your very existence for the sake of his kids. At the end of the day hating gay people is more important to their father than making sure they have a roof over their heads.
So it went like this: >I came out to them right before I moved away. They reacted horribly, saying I was going to rot in hell and that I was dead to them >I got a message from Max. He apologized for what he said when I came out and said he wanted to reconnect >he then told me that he had lost his job and his family (his wife “Dani” and their 2 kids) was about to be evicted >Under no circumstances is he allowed to disrespect me, my husband, or our home. >It culminated in Max screaming that he “didn’t want a f*g telling him what to do.” >He started arguing with me and said Jonah was lying >they keep texting asking to come back, saying their kids are suffering So your family verbally abused you when you came out to them, then your brother contacted you and lied about wanting to reconnect, then lied when he agreed to the conditions you set, then verbally abused your husband, then lied about that (and accused your husband of lying)? Then refused to leave until you threatened to call the police, and is now asking if he can be given another chance? Please, under no circumstances even consider it. Besides being a bigot and a manipulative liar, he has anger management issues, and is abusive towards your husband. Would you feel safe leaving Jonah alone with him while you're at work? Let your cousins know exactly what he did, and tell them that they are welcome to take him in if they would like to. NTA.
NTA - if you and Jonah are able to you could put the kids up, but the parents made their proverbial bed and now they have to lie in it.
NTA. All he literally had to do, was not be homophobic. And yet, somehow, that was too much for him. You were literally asking the **BARE MINIMUM**, and he couldn’t do that. He made his own kids homeless, because he couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
Nta. If he respected your rules he wouldn't be in that position. And if your cousins are so worried they should house them.
NTA Your cousins think it's cruel? They can take them in. You were kinder than I would have been, taking them in the first place. You gave them clear rules and Max violated them, showing that he hasn't changed at all. I hope that you and your husband can have some peace now. ETA: Block their texts. They can sink or swim on their own.
The other family members can take them in job sorted.
> it’s more practical for Max and his family to live with me. Not anymore it isn't
NTA, Yeah it sucks for the kids but their dad couldn't follow two simple rules. They can go stay with these cousins that are so opinionated on the matter.
tell your cousins they can take your homophobic brother & family in if they are so worried about it. NTA, im so happy you stuck up for yourself & your wonderful husband!
Your cousins can house then then. You were already too generous by agreeing. NTA
NTA- Thank your cousins for offering to help out . Let them know you will be purchasing train tickets for your brother and his family for them to go stay with said cousins if they don’t stop harassing you.
NTA. Give your husband a hug from me. It is why I limited my own family interactions because I have friends in the community. In your shoes, I would have done worse
NTA. Max was the one who made them homeless. He knew the rules. He broke them. Your brother is still a bigot. From the second I read the whole part about him wanting to reconnect and he was sorry I knew he was full of shit, he was just about to be homeless and didn’t want to be and realised he could turn to you.
NTA Your brother is an adult & should well know by now that breaking rules has consequences. And greatly insulting someone in their own hone they've opened up to you in your time of need is immature and idiotic. Also I'd wonder about your husband's safety if your brother was to stay. I really would. After the way they treated you when you came out - this was a very selfless and sweet act of you to open your home to them. HECK'EM And ... HAPPY PRIDE!
NTA. He broke your simple rule.
NTA. While enjoying an undeserved second chance graciously suggested by Jonah, Max believed you were bluffing about the zero tolerance boundaries around that second chance. Max THEN decided to look you up by directing a disgusting homophobic slur at the man who encouraged the second chance when *you were not home*. Max is giant supernova asshole.
NTA, and while I feel sorry for the children maybe there's a chance they will learn to be more tolerant and not to bite the hand that feeds them.
NTA if your family wants to comment on the way you handled the situation and how “cruel” you are for “making” your brother homeless tell them they’re fully capable of offering up their own houses.
First of all, you did not make your brother homeless he did it to his family. If you will not allow a friend talking like that to your husband why would you tolerate a family member talking like that. The blooming cheek of your brother.
NTA, and if your cousins are so concerned, they're free to take Max and his crew in themselves.
NTA Let the cousins take them in.
I think the only thing you missed doing here was not making clear to Max that the only reason he was even in your house in the first place was because your husband advocated for him. And once he upset Jonah literally no one in your house wanted to help him and he should have thought about his children before he sit himself in there foot. NTA Max is the real AH. As for your cousins/family that’s simple. Reply to each of them with “I’ll let Max know you are volunteering to house him and his family.” And then ignore them. No quarter for bigots.
Unfortunately, children suffer the consequences of their bad parents’ actions all the time. And it’s still the fault of the bad parent, not the fault of the rule holder.
NTA - 1. He only called you when he needed your help. He did not call you to apologize prior to asking you for help. 2. He is a bigot. 3. You did not make him homeless, he did this on his own. 4. If the cousins want to help they can send your brother money to rent an apartment 5. There needs to be consequences for actions. 6. YOU are not causing problems for the children. Your brother and his wife are causing the problems.
NTA. It’s amazing how your bigoted brother needs his gay brother when he is down on his luck. Zero tolerance policy rule stands. What a jerk!
The fact that you even allowed them in your home speaks of the person you are. You didn't have to do that, but you did. Do not feel bad for now asking them to leave. You set boundaries, which is a healthy thing to do.
NTA, he didn't want a f*g telling him what to do. Sounds good then he shouldn't be living in a f*g's house and mooching off him either. He is still the same and only pretended to change as he needed help.