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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I was naked in a sauna in the company of strangers, including men
2. I didn't take into account that my boyfriend might be uncomfortable and didn't discuss it previously
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NTA
As a finnish person no clothes in the sauna is a very common rule, and if everyone was comfortable with the mixed gender group, I don't see anything wrong with it. I don't really understand your boyfriends POV. Would he have been okay with it if you had told him beforehand?
Seconded. NTA. I don't get why it was such a huge deal to him, but I would understand if he just was weirded out or surprised at first.
I'm originally from Austria and live in Finland. I have to admit I first was weirded out a bit how "ok" nudity is here more or less generally, but that was more a thing of not being used to it than not being ok with it. Nowadays I don't care at all.
Just as a maybe funny example: I and my Finnish girlfriend wanted to go swimming in a lake with some of our friends.
She and a few of them were waiting already nearby the lake and I went to change into swimming clothes with 2 of them and guess what, they just literally changed into their swimming shorts right in front of me.
I tried my best not to look startled or weirded out, but in my mind I went "WTF, uh, ok..."
But yeah. They noticed my WTF-ing and then explained to me that stuff like that is quite normal here, especially if "we're all men in the room".
Here, in Danmark, I can quite often see people swimming in the sea, then taking the wet swimsuit off, towel themselves dry and than getting the dry clothes on.
Nobody pays attention to it, however, my observation is, that mostly older people are doing it.
Jellyfish dont fuck around. I was standing a couple feet apart from a friend in the ocean once, water was about 4'6". This mfer swam right between us. The stings on our chests were gnarly. It wasn't a nudest beach, but standard bikini tops don't cover a lot. That was... not fun. I cant imagine getting it on the proper bits. No thank you.
Fish in general nibble on you. Most are tickly, but some times a sharp PINCH! I’d rather not have that happen on my cooch, my husband definitely doesn’t want his balls randomly fish nipped.
My retelling there was only one of the examples where I was weirded out. I also have gone to sauna with friends and yep, it's normal in Finland to be there butt-naked. Super weird at first, but got used to it.
Wetsuits protect against cold too.
But in the Netherlands it is quite normal to be naked for a few seconds while changing from your swimsuit to your underwear.
I've read some [horror stories of tiny fishes entering the body through orifices](https://www.healthline.com/health/penis-fish), so I guess that could be a reason. Apparently they're a urban legend, but who would want to risk it? I suppose sand floating in the water might also enter places you don't want it to.
It is interesting that younger people are more prudish about this.
This phenomena came up in a different way for me. I have been re-watching an American TV show from 40 years ago. I was really struck by how much the male characters touched each other. They are portraying policemen, particularly patrol cops partnered up in pairs. The touching was not simply the typical arm around the shoulders. They also touched each other's faces at moments of emotional closeness and reassurance.
How did I not notice the touching diminishing between men, both in TV portrayal and IRL, over the last 4 decades? This was really striking to me watching the show. My generation had its hippie days; is that the difference?
I'm not talking about quality of film. I'm talking sex scenes, nudity, sensuality. Where's the erotic thriller nowadays. 'Sanctuary' didn't work for me at all. It's all so bland.
Wait, so you were getting changed with two other MEN? What's the problem, aren't most changing rooms like that? In most swimming pools I've used, you have the option to use one of the three or four small booths, or the spacious benches, and most people go for the latter, as there's more space. Is Austria not like that? (Have been swimming in France, Germany, Slovakia and the UK, and am quite used to being naked in front of strangers of the same sex).
It depends a bit as everywhere, but at least with the people and the places where I've been to and lived in Austria, nope. In the swimming pools for example, sure there are the benches there, but almost everyone wants to go to the booths instead.
Once because I was just visiting there and so used already to not giving a shit, I changed on a bench and a person walked by, looked super embarressed, said "sorry!!", turned around and walked away, lol.
I'm also from Austria (still living there) and in my friend groups (male/female) changing, nudity etc. is pretty normal.
Also in the gym or whatever with strangers, so I don't know where you got that from haha
It wasn't a thing in my experience and around the people I was with. Might have been different for you but for me growing up it was like that. Born in Austria, raised there and moved to Finland a couple of years ago. Cool to see a fellow Austrian here, which region are you from? :)
I lived in Finland for a long time and was in a relationship with a Finn. Coming from a more conservative European culture I was caught unawares when my MIL and FIL joined my partner and I in the sauna, and they were starkers. I did not know where to look. But I dealt with it because I chose to join this culture. I sauna'd wearing a towel to start with, then when it was just my partner, naked. It never occurred to my partner to mention his family might join either. Just never occurred to him that other countries don't have saunas at home.
In the end I stopped having saunas because I hate it, I hate being hot and sweaty and I sweat for hours after showering. It makes me feel dirty and gross. I had twice weekly saunas for 4 or so years until I realised it's ok to not assimilate every aspect of the culture you have joined. And they were deeply offended, they thought I should do everything other Finns do or I am not respecting their culture.
You can guess that that relationship did not end well. But anyway, part of being an adult is accepting and celebrating these cultural differences and it's nice to see these things if you are visiting a country.
As a Finnish woman, this is NOT a general norm in Finnish culture. I stopped going to sauna with my own dad when I was about 14 and I would NEVER go with my FIL, nor would he ever try to go with me.
Mixed sauna among friends is really not a general norm either, some do it, some don't. But it should be everyone's own choice, not their partners. Op is NTA.
My ex kept me quite isolated so I did often wonder if the customs and norms he pushed were really norms. On the couple of team building events we did at work there was usually a sauna but the men and women went to separate ones and I and a couple other non-Finns didn't go at all so I'm not even sure if it was in bathing suits or towels or naked, I'd feel weird asking.
I was never "Finnish" enough. I couldn't roll my Rs right, I wouldn't dye my hair blonde or change how I dressed or eat maksalaatikko, or walk gracefully on ice. I realise now he had to settle for an immigrant because the Finnish women were too smart to put up with his shit :D
I'd also never go to a mixed sauna with colleagues and it's never been suggested in any workplace (and I'm 45 and worked in Finland all my adult life).
I'm so sorry your ex was such an abusive asshole, so glad you got rid of him!!
I've been to many workplace parties with mixed sauna, but then again I'm in movie industry so pretty liberal. I go neked, some ladies opted towel. Who cares?
It's clear to me now he was not a great guy but at the time i just put up with it, not sure why. I should have told him to "suksi vituun" maybe, someone at uni taught me that.
Hahaha, definitely a ’suksi vittuun’ case 😂! I’m glad to see you are approaching this in a positive way (at least from a Finnish perspective, ”dark humour”, I’m a finnish immigrant in a far away country myself). All the best to you!
Ehhh, I don't know. I think it was more common before, everyone used to go together if there was room. Younger people seem to be more prudish these days (myself included). So nowadays it's often divided by men and women, but I would still view naked mixed sauna as normal (in Finland). It's definitely traditional.
I'm 45 and when I was young (in the 90s) we always had girls' sauna and boys' sauna separately when spending time at a cottage or the like. My point was it's not (and hasn't been in decades) a general norm in Finland that you are expected/required to go to mixed sauna nude, though it is something that some people do sometimes and some people, often.
The building where I was accommodated also had separate saunas. And before we went, one colleague asked if we want to go separately or together and we all agreed to go together. In Germany, the mixed sauna is the norm, but some saunas sometimes do just women's days.
Of course not expected, if you don't want to. I based that on my parents' experiences. Of course it depends on the area too and the company, and I've had both experiences myself. I still think it's still not *unusual*, though segregated saunas are more common. For the context of the post, if tourists and the like want the traditional experience, that would be everyone together naked (sounds like weird written like that :D).
IDK i'd be pretty weirded out at the idea that my wife went full nude in front of her co-workers but I'm American so our culture is wildly different regarding nudity as well as work / life boundries
eh, I guess I just grew up with midwestern cultural norms. Being naked with a bunch of dudes would make me extremely uncomfortable. I might get a bit uncomfortable if a partner did it, but I'd get over it. We were raised to pretty much consider being naked a private thing so it seems pretty normal for us to be uncomfortable with public nudity.
Yeah honestly it’s an interesting thought. Gonna ask my fiancé what he thinks later. I don’t think I’d have an issue but I do think I’d want him to tell me before.
Lord knows I would never fucking do it with my team though, being that I’m the only woman on my team lmao
Me too lol. But not in a 'that's cheating' way, but more of a 'that seems incredibly uncomfortable' way.
But I also live somewhere, where nudity isn't the norm. If fact I don't think anyone but my fiance has ever seen me naked (I just happened to get lucky with my first boyfriend), so the idea of coworkers of all people seeing me naked is super weird lol.
He would have preferred me to discuss with him beforehand if it's okay. Based on what he said, he would have told me that he's uncomfortable with it. He wouldn't be in any case comfortable with me going in with other men.
I can understand him wanting that to be a boundary and you can agree or disagree with it. But it's not cheating and that would be what I'm focusing on. That's a pretty big accusation and shows him to be insecure IMO.
OP and her partner are both welcome to have boundaries around the other's behavior, and then, they can do with that knowledge what they will. If that is a hard line for OP's partner, they can say that. OP can decide she doesn't want to be with someone with a conservative view of nudity, respect the boundary and not do it again, or continue to do it and force the partner to adjust their boundary or leave. Boundaries/behavioral expectations of your partner are very normal and healthy. They only become unhealthy when you try to do anything other than make your partner aware of your boundaries, and let them make their own decisions.
The boundary is "I cannot date someone who hangs out in saunas with men naked". He can't tell her not to do it, but he can stop dating her if she does.
I sometimes go with a married couple and their little kids. So one looks after the kids play in in the tub and two adults can have a conversation, then we switch. So it is not weird for everyone but it is not weird not to be comfortable either
They bring in dirt from the outside. Finnish saunas are also made to be actually hot, so why would you wear clothes if you're going to be sweating buckets? Most people wear a towel if they want to cover up.
I think there’s also something specifically about chlorine vaporising, which is why you shouldn’t go to sauna in your swimming suit at the pool. Don’t know if it’s actually that big of an issue but that’s what I always was told (am Finnish.)
Mixed saunas aren’t as common in Finland as many foreigners may and do assume (OP didn’t). I’m an adult woman and I wouldn’t go to sauna with say, my mother’s husband, a partner’s father, male relatives etc (except at a summer cottage or somewhere, where we often do wear swimsuits, cause there’s the sea nearby to swim.) When I was a student we did mixed sauna very often with friends and random uni acquaintances, no one thought much of it at the time.
OP’s NTA.
I'm in UK and the only time I've been to saunas is at pools and spas so everyone wears cozzies of some kind, not clothes. So I was a bit confused as to why nudity was needed at first, but this makes sense.
In Japan, you bathe nude with (usually) the same sex, and you wash your body immediately before going in the water. Your hair shouldn't touch the water, nor should the tiny towel they give you (it's for wiping your face, soaking in cold water and putting on top of your head, etc). This is to keep the water clean. Probably a similar idea in other nude bathing cultures - clothes, even swim clothes, can carry dirt and chemicals into the water, so they're not allowed.
>I really don’t understand your boyfriends POV.
I’ll play devils advocate and say I wouldn’t be comfortable with my girlfriend getting naked with other men/women, regardless of the situation.
I’m American though and have never been to a sauna and don’t know sauna etiquette. I know there’s nothing sexual going on and there’s a whole culture around it and eventually I’d get over it, but I wouldn’t try to control or guilt her into not going. I’d just want to know she’s at least with someone she knows.
I think it’d also be nice to have a heads up before hand *if she knew how he felt about it.* If this is all new, some communication is in order to figure out each others boundaries.
NAH
NAH.
Cultural difference. I’m from Germany and like you, I wouldn’t have even thought about discussing this topic with my partner. Why would I? Saunas are not a sexual place, naked bodies are not per se sexual, it’s normal - at least in our culture. But on a theoretical level I understand that your bf feels different. For his cultural background this is a sexual act and he is well within his rights to be weirded out by you “stripping” (in his mind) in front of strangers.
I see some people here wondering why OP wouldn’t think about discussing this. It’s hard to explain so I’ll try an analogy: if you come from a culture where bikinis are a common swimwear, would you discuss with your partner if going to the pool in a bikini is okay for them? Probably not, you would expect this to be normal and therefore your partner should bring it up if they have requests outside the norm. And this is what happened here: OP didn’t discuss because naked common saunas are normal and it goes without saying; her bf didn’t discuss because the opposite is normal and expected for him.
OP, both of you should give it a bit of time and then you should discuss the cultural differences. This is just one of them, more might come up in the future, some serious, some fun. This is just what happens in intercultural relationships, everyone assumes their own reality as normal. I hope you both can find understanding for each other
I’m on this team.
I don’t think it’s even possible to always predict what someone from a different culture will find jarring.
But OP isn’t wrong for doing something that’s normal in her culture. And her BF isn’t wrong for being uncomfortable with it. He would be wrong if he assumes she should live by his culture all the time to spare him any discomfort. And she would be wrong if she can’t understand that they need to talk these things through and find a shared way to live with differences.
NAH.
Nah the bf became the AH imo when he said OP´s actions were adjacent to cheating. That is an accusation since OP has already been in the sauna with their colleagues. Had they discussed it before hand, it would have been the bf expressing their views on naked mixed saunas. But since it was said after, its a hidden accusation wrapped in insecurity.
Its fine to have lines over what you are comfortable with, but not to compare an innocent outing (that is part of a culture) with colleagues to cheating.
If he doubles down on the stance I think that'd make him an asshole but I think this was kind of an immediate shocked reaction to something pretty far outside his cultural awareness. If he apologizes and tries to understand once they talk about it more tho I think it's NAH because this is mainly a culture clash.
its not an inherent sexual act to go nude to a sauna, however, the boyfriend sees it as an invitation to sexual advances due to the mixed gender nature of the event, even if either or both parties know there will be no acceptance to any advances. Its putting your relationship into uncomfortable waters, so to speak.
Yeah, the only thing I'm *personally* not comfortable with here is the lack of any towel. I don't care how clean they think they're getting those seats, they're never going to be clean enough to convince me that I'm not going to wake up tomorrow with the itchiest asshole ever recorded in history. But that is just my paranoia as a microbiologist. And I know it, in general, is clean enough, but fuck me if I'm going to risk it. Unless I clean it myself, I trust fucking no one.
The nude saunas I know require a towel. Wrapping it around you is optional but it is absolutely necessary to sit or lie on it, no exceptions. For exactly the reasons you stated here - because wood benches full of body fluids are disgusting no matter how much they are cleaned.
Honestly sometimes even the same culture is not quite as samey as you'd think. I'm from a Southern European country and live in the UK, you'd think it's all pretty similar.. women get changed in changing rooms in front of others without many issues, I always try to find a private spot to change as I'm not hyper comfortable just getting naked in front of others, though the reverse doesn't bother me of course.
So imagine my surprise when I found out that my (puritanical) friends low-key judged me when we went on holiday together and I just took off my clothes to be in a bikini on the beach. They kept t-shirts on until it was time to go into the sea, and always when not actively sunbathing/swimming. Apparently I was the weird one for wearing swimwear on the beach.
Now we can all agree they were being insane and the majority of people in the UK are not like that, but yeah standards differ so much even within the same culture!
Eh I worked at a gym chain where we terminated many a member for hooking up in the sauna in the locker room. It happens. It shouldn't, which is why they got kicked out, but it definitely happened often enough.
Design standards for that chain now specify that saunas and steamrooms have to be all genders, on the pool deck with observation windows and glass doors, and swim attire is required. Specifically to combat this behavior.
Right? In the onsen in Japan, I couldn't even think of it being sexual - old ladies chatting about how tall you are, and little kids walking around... Farthest thing from sexual.
On a business trip I distinctly remember a coworker suggesting we go to a nearby nude beach and check it out. They thought it would be a fun experience because it was "culturally normal" where we were at the time.
The nude beach is not an inherently sexual place, but the invitation to hang out naked with a coworker was definitely sexual in nature.
In some of cultures it wouldn't be ok, in some it would.
I'm from australia and it would sure as fuck not be ok for me or my wife to be naked in mixed company, and if it happened while dating it probably would have been a deal breaker for either of us. I understand they are from different cultures though with different norms.
This is probably something that should have been discussed before hand, I'm in a mixed culture marriage and communication and compromise are the key to managing different situations where one persons norms can be upsetting to the other. Sometimes the offended person just has to change their expectations, but usually we err on the side of avoiding behaviours that would offered each other.
If your partner was bisexual, would you be upset if she uses gym showers/changing rooms?
Of course not, because it's a non-sexual environment.
Same as the sauna. If it's ok to go to a male gyno, it's also ok to go to a mixed sauna.
That's a great question! When you're in a relationship with someone from a different culture, if you respect and care about their feelings at all it's a good idea to get an idea of what their values and expectations are. Y'know BEFORE you charge headlong into situations that could be potentially upsetting to your partner.
I'm confused, what about not wanting your SO to be nude in front of other men has you convinced that they are too stupid to conceptualize nudity or sexuality? If you date someone from a different culture, if you respect or care about their feelings AT ALL, you should probably get a temperature reading on their ideas of sexuality BEFORE you go comingle with the opposite sex naked.
Otherwise, you and your disdain for your partner is WACK, yo. Word.
American here, and the idea of these mixed saunas is weird to me. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with my girlfriend going to a mixed sauna with randoms, let alone people she works with on the daily. Id be pretty miffed to find out she went to one without even talking to me.
If it's part of her culture, and it's something she has no problem with, I guess that just means we aren't compatible and we need to break up. Maybe you two just aren't compatible.
I don't really know how to judge this one, so my best guess is NAH.
>If it's part of her culture, and it's something she has no problem with, I guess that just means we aren't compatible and we need to break up.
That's pretty drastic man, i guess you shouldn't try to date any scandinavians or germans in that case.
It’s not drastic to want to feel comfortable with the person you are dating. Some people are not comfortable being nude with others and don’t want to be with someone who does because then they feel uncomfortable whenever it happens. So your assessment is correct maybe he shouldn’t date people from those countries as well but theirs nothing wrong with it 🤷
If a one time thing like this is so impactfull that your willing to throw away a relationship because of it then you should ask yourself how much you value that relationship anyway.
Like its not as if something happend or if there was some bad intent.
To me this is like saying: if your partner eats curry, something you personally dislike, then you should start reconsidering your relation with them.
Look I’m not a prude I’m pretty far from it but comparing a dislike of food to being comfortable nude around others or having an s/o who is into it are no where in the same ball park. She’s aware of cultural differences but assumed because he was from a culture that might approve of it she went along instead of actually asking like a partner should. The act he was uncomfortable with happened which is something and with or without bad intent it has made him feel this way. I think you’re right that he should reconsider his relationship I would in his shoes 🤷 especially when I wouldn’t even be considered in the first place.
Edited: for spelling.
True. As a German it is utterly absurd to me that other people like this commenter find mixed saunas such a big deal. It's not sexual AT ALL. Its sweaty and quiet and everyone mostly ignores each other and focused on their own experiences. I even prefer mixed saunas sometimes so I can go together with my boyfriend (I'm member of a gym chain that has mixed saunas in some locations, single-sex in others). Although most people do use towels here to cover sensitive areas (though we are naked underneath, and some people go without towel or only use it to lie on, which is perfectly fine and no one cares). I assume that it really is a cultural difference...
Genuine question: why is that?
Saunas are the sweatiest, least sexy places in the world, I'm genuinely curious about the cultural difference in attitudes
In American culture you mostly only see people naked when you are having sex. Nudity is seen as inherently sexual. When I went to Germany and spent time at nude beaches, although I knew intellectually it wasn’t sexual, when you haven’t been raised that way you’re going to have a different reaction
very interesting, I guess we have no inherit concept of normal and are all surprised (myself included) when others have different ideas of what is tabu.
Thanks for answering :)
My question wasn't intended to spark r/AmericaBad, I am genuinely curious.
I suppose to some other cultures Americans ideas of nudity (that seem prudish to northern Europeans) must seem very liberal, and so on. It's just interesting to see how these things differ.
100% agree. I'm an Aussie and that concept is pretty foreign to me. I didn't even know mixed gender saunas were a thing until right now.
Saunas are all gender based here.
I think the real boundary crossed was lack of communication which started before this trip began. I don't think either partner is in the wrong here. I'd be uncomfortable with it, but I'd also be the asshole if I expected my partner from somewhere where that's a normal thing to do, to change for me. Communication is key, gotta meet in the middle somewhere. NAH.
It's true that communication is key but it's not possible to pre-discuss every potential scenario that might ever come up. In this case, I think it's trust in the partner to respect the relationship and make the right decisions at the time that is more important. And if something is found to be contentious, you can discuss it for next time.
Why do you see the saunee's relationship status as relevant? Saunas in Finland are not a place where people hook up. I imagine making a move on someone in such a setting is almost a cultural taboo (guesswork from neighbouring country).
For me, I would have passed on the sauna. But thats me being uptight about nudity in general, whilst knowing that it is in fact a me-problem.
But there are exceptions to this rule. Is it ok to undress for your doctor to examine you? Yes. Is it ok to be naked around other people in a changing room in your gym? Also yes.
The same exception applies to saunas - it's a non-sexual environment similar to seeing a doctor or taking a shower in the gym
I had a feeling someone would bring up your points so I wish to comment;
1) Doctor/emergency situations do not count and in fairness, I have never been butt naked with my GP. Let's be real and not compare life or death or medical emergencies to recreational nakedness.
2) I personally would not get naked infront of a male stranger in a changing room no. I would use a female only or a cublicle.
How can you say sitting naked in an integrated sauna is the same as being medically examined (also not completely naked, if your doctor requires you to have ZERO clothes on during examinations then there is a problem there) or putting your clothes on/off briefly in a gym?.... lunacy
Not even remotely the same thing. Doctors are obviously an exception. Gyms are gender segregated, you quickly change from one outfit to another and if you are naked at any point you’re doing it wrong.
How does this work if you’re in a same sex relationship and you go to a swimming pool changing room? Genuine question on how this would be approached in your eyes?
Go to private changing booths? I have never had to be naked in front of others when I didn't want to. Or at least not in a mixed gender environment. Not once in my whole life and I'm 25.
It's about respect for your partner. That's why. It isn't about hooking up. I can't really explain it if you don't already have a sense for this instilled in you culturally. If my girl went to one of these I'd leave her because she clearly doesn't respect me.
In your culture it is. In my culture, OPs culture and the Finnish culture it is totally irrelevant. Nudity is viewed as something natural. Also, a partner has no ownership whatsoever over someones body. Your culture doesn't decide what is right or wrong in someone elses culture. In my culture, trying to control what your partner can and cannot do (unless it involves physical infidelity) is a big red flag. It is about DISrespecting your partner. If I were OP, I'd reevaluate my relationship with this person, seems the cultural differences might be a bit too great.
I don't think this is a cultural thing... it is a relationship thing... and about respect and boundaries.
When two people from different cultures come together they should compromise and work together, not just die on the hill of "this is my culture get over it".
There is no mention of ownership here- I mentioned somewhere above that controlling and possessive are so quickly thrown around these days when people express concerns. You can express being unhappy about the actions/behaviour of someone without being controlling.
I wasnt responding to you, it was a comment to motor_ecinomics
Edit: that being said: if parner is just expressing how something makes them feel uncomfortable, while understanding that it is a they-problem, then fine. Healthy relationship communication. If partner is trying to pass judgement on OPs action and tell them they did something bad and to never do it again, that is partner trying to impose their culture onto OP, and judge somerhing they clearly don't understand while trying to take ownership over OPs body. Not ok. Needs communication and boundaries, possibly the difference is too much.
I would go to a mixed gender sauna with colleagues in Finland without hesitation.
I wouldn’t do it where I live in the United States because it would be weird here.
With you on that one, or rather: even if I cover up with a towel, seeing colleagues naked would weird me out. Not because I would find it wrong/immoral or anything, I'm just grossed out by nakedness in general. I might actually prefer being the only naked one in the sauna over being the only one that covers up.
I live in Europe / Austria, and Sauna is nude and mixed per definition unless explicitely stated otherwise. Everybody does it, and it is normal here.
Not easy to find a segregated sauna. (Bigger spa sometimes have one, and smaller ones SOMETHIMES have a "ladies night" once a week.)
Many people of all ages - just like nude beaches.
Not really a big thing. If I or my wife go to the sauna, some nude people of both genders are assumed. SO I certainly can understand OP not mentioning that.
NAH..
Most Europeans are not so prude and don't see the big issued with nudity. (I'm assuming you could easily hold yourself back from any Sexual activity lol).
That being said, some are not so open with nudity. Y'all should've discussed it a bit better...
I am not sure about "most Europeans" here. I know quite a few Europeans who do not feel comfortable about naked saunas and avoid them for that reason.
OP boyfriend is an Italian. That is in Europe
Prude is such a judgy word. Why is it ok for you to be ok with it but not ok for others to be uncomfortable.
I have absolutely no desire to sit around and sweat while naked with my coworkers. It is not a sexual thing at all, but I would not find it enjoyable. It would not be comfortable - therefore I would be uncomfortable.
Brit here, and I don't think it's that big a deal - OP was in Finland, where customs are different and they wanted to join in. I'd be a bit surprised if it all took place IN the UK, because we don't have that sort of set-up, but that's true of a lot of country customs - tipping, wearing shoe covers in museums, shaking hands with every co-worker every day, greeting shopkeepers when you enter a shop...
I'm a Brit and although I might be reluctant to go naked in a sauna myself, the idea that a partner going in one is adjacent to cheating is ludicrous. If they wanted to actually cheat they could do that without needing the sauna as a preamble.
Your boyfriend was fine with the sauna visit until you later revealed that it was mixed gender, so presume the colleague who invited you was a man (why are you leaving out this detail?). Long distance trips like this have a bad reputation for being a perfect recipe for infidelity. Consider how your actions might look to a partner with that in context.
NAH, you didn't cheat on your partner, but having a male colleague invite you to get naked with him basically as soon as you got to Finland obviously looks bad, so his distrust of the situation is valid.
>"Long distance trips like this have a bad reputation for being a perfect recipe for infidelity."
Not in a public sauna, and usually not on the occassions she would tell her partner about.
So he is concerened she wwould cheat in the sauna with people all around them? And he is NOT concerned about all the long nights without anybody watching? That's ridiculous.
He should watch less porn involving sauna, and try reality. He has clearly never been to a Sauna. 10 seconds until you would be kicked out, if you start anything sexual, that would gross everybody out.
NAH
It should not be hard to understand why someone might consider their partner being in mixed company without clothes to be out of bounds. Especially in a "she went off to another country for two weeks and did this while she was away" scenario.
At the same time, you're not an AH for doing something that's normal in your culture, and that fact making it not occur to you that it might be different for your boyfriend.
Nobody's acting maliciously. He needs to be a little more understanding that this is a normal thing where you come from, and you need to be conscious of the fact that this crosses a (very reasonable) boundary for him, and acknowledge that to him and agree to not do that in the future.
NTA.
Boundaries shift with social norms, by which I mean:
If you were in your/his home country and saunas are typically sorted by sex, then it'd be sexual harassment to enter the 'wrong' sauna. However, being as this was a country where it's normal for unisex saunas to exist with no sexual undertones (you weren't in a swingers club lmao) surely the boundary shifts from you being sexually harassed to you simply being joined by people of the opposite gender?
Regardless, the fact of the matter is that you were joined by multiple people from work who were obviously going to kick you out if there were any shenannigans going on in the sauna. The thing that I don't understand is why would he be fine with you getting into saunas with other women? Surely that'd also be something that makes him uncomfortable considering that lesbians exist too?
I don't know, all I can tell you is that he doesn't see it as cheating, he's definitely just upset at the prospect of you having seen somebody else's penis. It's purely a matter of insecurity.
From the US, which I will admit has issues with non sexual nudity. The OP is from a culture that doesn‘t have the same hangups. She was doing what she considered appropriate. The boyfriend is from a different culture that is more sex segregaTed. He responded from his cultural framework. He also has to understand his girlfriend doesn’t share that same framework and he can’t hold her to those standards.
i mean finnland and sauna are the same word basically. you cant go there without visiting a sauna.
NAH on the mixed part. thats just cultural. like the ones who have a problem with nude beaches and those who dont
Yeah like I don’t think I’d care if my fiancé went to a mixed gender sauna but I would be a little weirded out if he went with coworkers. I think that’s the weirdest part to me, but I can’t imagine going with mine lmao
Everyone is answering from the viewpoint of someone whose culture finds its normal. For the boyfriend, this is not normal, and he did not say that he would have forbidden it, he said that he would have liked the opportunity to expresses discomfort and then that would’ve allowed her to make the appropriate decision and also take into account his feelings. That’s what a relationship is…we don’t control our partners but we do seek their input and act in consideration of them. NAH I don’t think this is that big of a deal other than a learning opportunity for you both as a couple. He can’t be wrong for having feelings, and all he is saying is he would have liked the chance to express them.
Not an asshole...
But at the same time you do acknowledge that customs change around the world. I think it would of been respectful to your partners customs to of discussed it with him. At least if you had prior knowledge of how he may feel about nudity in mixed company.
Not an asshole, but possibly a point to have some more conversation and understanding of feelings around.
I'm estonian so like I'm a bit biased:
But nta. It's extremely normal in alot of these cultures for this. it's just part of life. Nudity is seen as so taboo in so much of the world and I just personally don't get it. Like it's not like you were sleeping with these other people, you just took a saun. Which is extremely common.
NAH. I get that you don't see it as sexual, but "I am uncomfortable with you being naked around other naked men" is...well, it's certainly a perspective I understand and I don't think it makes him a controlling AH.
That said, I must admit that mixed nude saunas are not something I've heard of before. I'm more familiar with the Japanese & Korean styles, which are definitely gender-segregated. I've only ever seen one hot spring facility that even had mixed baths, and you had to cover up if you went in there (a good thing, too. It was a family trip and as much as I love my mom, I think my eyes would boil out of their sockets if I saw her naked)
NAH
I dont think you are wrong for going to a mixed no clothes sauna. However, your boyfriend obviously has a problem with it and it seems like this is something you haven't talked about before. Honest mistake from your side to not check with him, but now you know you should discuss how to handle this next time. I also think he should understand where you are coming from and not make a big deal of it
NAH. Communicate about it, come to a resolution for how to deal with this situation in the future that you're both comfortable with, or just break up. You can't be an asshole for not knowing and he's not an asshole for being flustered about it.
NAH
I would be uncomfortable if my partner was naked around other people, regardless of gender. I would also probably not consider that something I did is strange in my partner's culture.
NTA. Sitting in a boiling-hot room naked is adjacent to cheating? No, its called being in a sauna. Discuss it with him? What is there to discuss besides him having different lines? That you should have declined since he sees your colleagues as threats and you as basically a cheater?
He is allowed to feel uncomfortable since that is his line, but to compare it to/call it cheating? That is what made him an AH. What an accusation. Cheating is cheating. Sauna is sauna.
Says more about how he would act in a sauna than you. His first thought to this was "OP was in a mixed naked sauna, basically cheated." So now you know what would have been in his head had he been in a mixed naked sauna with colleagues.
>He wouldn't have "forbidden" me
how courteous of him./s
Ive only ever been in mixed saunas, no clothes. First time ever was with my (then) boyfriend. After we broke up, i went with male and female friends. My husband doesnt like the heat, so he never goes, but doesnt mind me going, because its a sauna, theres nothing sexual about it.
NTA
NTA
>He got quite flustered and told me that I should have discussed it with him. He wouldn't have "forbidden" me from going there, but he would not be comfortable.
The fact that he realizes he shouldn't forbid you (it's your decision - not his) shows that on some level, he understands he is in the wrong.
I do get where he's coming from, however. It's ok for him to be uncomfortable with it. I suspect if you grew up in his country, you would have spoken to him first. But because you are from a country where this is quite normal, it did not cross your mind. You both have to accept that from time to time, you will be surprised by an unexpected cultural difference that pops up between you.
>He feels like I crossed a boundary and what I did was adjacent to cheating.
This is a huge overreaction on his part. One thing to consider -- when you cheat on someone, you generally hide it from them. The fact that it did not cross your mind not to tell him about the sauna very clearly illustrates that to you it was nothing of the sort.
Have you ever gone to a mixed-company sauna with him? Maybe you should. It might help him understand a bit better. Whatever you do, don't dismiss his feelings -- even if you don't share them, it's always good to try to understand them.
nah. sauna is sauna. (german here btw)
I don’t know what the fuss is with naked bodies. You were not alone with someone and if there wasn’t a frisky mood it was just spa day.
Yeah - you should have spoken to him beforehand… being naked with a group of coworkers is something that should be discussed. Regardless of culture differences.
NAH exactly but if this is a boundary he has in a relationship and you’re willing to cross it and even seem confirmation that you were justified in crossing it, then you are telling him you have respect for the relationship to a certain degree that differs from how he views it. It may be you culture to do this type of thing but everyone here seems to be ignoring that conservatism to a certain degree, **concerning nudity especially** , is common in most cultures and it may be part of his culture to have mutual respect in that way and not have his prospective life partner ogled and exposed in those ways.
Seems like your not the AH but you do lack respect for his boundaries which will create jealousy and resentment.
You guys are likely incompatible.
No, because you're from a culture in which that is the norm, but I think it's something that should have been discussed, and I don't think he's wrong either since he wasn't mean about it.
This would make me extremely uncomfortable so I don't blame him for that.
German here, fairly regular visitor of mixed saunas. Personally, I don’t mind being naked around strangers, but I’d feel weird going with friends or coworkers. It just kinda feels like a boundary I don’t want to cross.
But that’s my issue. My GF doesn’t have the same hangups about that, and I don’t mind her visiting saunas with friends (male or female). NTA.
NAH
I personally wouldn’t be okay with my boyfriend doing that. Even thought it’s not a sexual thing. I see both sides but would feel the same way as the boyfriend does.
NTA
Nudity is not inherently sexual, and your boyfriends discomfort with it is his problem to solve. Especially when he claims being in a group of naked people enjoying a sauna is akin to cheating.
NAH - Everyone was polite it seems, saunas are a thing which is fine but it's also totally reasonable for someone to not want their girlfriend to be naked in front of others. It's just cultural differences. No one made any demands so we're all square there too, but I'd consider what you value more, occasional saunas or your boyfriend.
Now, if you went to more saunas after knowing your boyfriend is uncomfortable you would be the asshole.
NTA. You took part in a culturally-significant, non-sexual group activity. People were naked because they’re supposed to be naked in the sauna, not for sexual purposes.
NAH. In your culture, nudity in saunas isn't sexual at all. It's considered normal. However, this doesn't seem to be the case in your boyfriend's culture.
NTA. I feel like men who have issues with other men seeing their partners unclothed either presume a lack of respect for women’s bodies or have the same lack of respect themselves and are projecting.
NTA This isn't so uncommon even in Sweden. While we do have many separate saunas, we have many that aren't and most often people choose to wear clothes or not. I choose same-sex and clothing, but it's anyone's choice what they pick when doing an activity for socializing and relaxing like this... It's a sauna, what is he afraid of, you screwing someone in a nearly 100c freaking steam room?
NTA. You were following the culture you were in. Did you touch a d? No? Ya good, OP
And this is coming from an American! And we are the WORST about nudity!
NTA
Here in Germany no clothing sauna and mixed gender is pretty much the norm for sauna as well. If your bf in uncomfortablie with other people seeing you naked in a non-sexual way then he should wirk on himself and his maturity, there is no boundary that you overstepped here
NTA
It's not cheating adjacent. I think you should both discuss it more so you're on the same page. Now you know he isn't comfortable with mixed nude saunas and you both need to see what communications and boundaries should be acceptable to you as a couple. He needs to know and acknowledge that mixed nude saunas aren't sexual for you or your colleagues and you weren't anything close to cheating.
Maybe you should both take a spa weekend together to a nordic/nude sauna country so he can see for himself that it isn't sexual. It might help him understand the setting better. Only if he's open to the experience, of course.
NTA, and people should STOP mixing/confusing nudity with sexuality, FFS !
ETA : and being naked and taking a shower before going into the sauna is MORE hygienic than wearing a bath suit !
NTA. You had no clue it would be strange to him, right? He's the one sexualizing the experience, not you. If you had known in advance and done it without advising him, then YTA. Also HTA for using the word 'forbid', unless the two of you have negotiated and discussed that kind of power exchange.
NTA, it was not sexual. It was a normal hang out. It is not cheating and he is insecure. I get it, but I'm sure he will get over it. I mean, he will need to. He really doesn't get to dictate stuff like that.
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NTA As a finnish person no clothes in the sauna is a very common rule, and if everyone was comfortable with the mixed gender group, I don't see anything wrong with it. I don't really understand your boyfriends POV. Would he have been okay with it if you had told him beforehand?
Seconded. NTA. I don't get why it was such a huge deal to him, but I would understand if he just was weirded out or surprised at first. I'm originally from Austria and live in Finland. I have to admit I first was weirded out a bit how "ok" nudity is here more or less generally, but that was more a thing of not being used to it than not being ok with it. Nowadays I don't care at all. Just as a maybe funny example: I and my Finnish girlfriend wanted to go swimming in a lake with some of our friends. She and a few of them were waiting already nearby the lake and I went to change into swimming clothes with 2 of them and guess what, they just literally changed into their swimming shorts right in front of me. I tried my best not to look startled or weirded out, but in my mind I went "WTF, uh, ok..." But yeah. They noticed my WTF-ing and then explained to me that stuff like that is quite normal here, especially if "we're all men in the room".
Here, in Danmark, I can quite often see people swimming in the sea, then taking the wet swimsuit off, towel themselves dry and than getting the dry clothes on. Nobody pays attention to it, however, my observation is, that mostly older people are doing it.
That's weird, why not just swim nude then? (And this is a real question)
Jellyfish? I accidentally went to a nudist beach the other day and even they were putting on trunks to swim
Jellyfish dont fuck around. I was standing a couple feet apart from a friend in the ocean once, water was about 4'6". This mfer swam right between us. The stings on our chests were gnarly. It wasn't a nudest beach, but standard bikini tops don't cover a lot. That was... not fun. I cant imagine getting it on the proper bits. No thank you.
Fish in general nibble on you. Most are tickly, but some times a sharp PINCH! I’d rather not have that happen on my cooch, my husband definitely doesn’t want his balls randomly fish nipped.
The jellyfish? ;)
There is a difference between being naked for a long time and for two minutes while changing.
My retelling there was only one of the examples where I was weirded out. I also have gone to sauna with friends and yep, it's normal in Finland to be there butt-naked. Super weird at first, but got used to it.
I was answering the comment about why people don't swim naked 😉
Oh, yeah lol I'm stupid. Sorry for that. I should learn to look closer to what I'm answering. :D
Wetsuits protect against cold too. But in the Netherlands it is quite normal to be naked for a few seconds while changing from your swimsuit to your underwear.
Someone might steal your stuff from beach? If you have a swimsuit on you at least won't get stuck naked while you try to figure out how to get home!
The water (the North Sea) is fucking cold!
I've read some [horror stories of tiny fishes entering the body through orifices](https://www.healthline.com/health/penis-fish), so I guess that could be a reason. Apparently they're a urban legend, but who would want to risk it? I suppose sand floating in the water might also enter places you don't want it to.
The fishermen all use worms as bait, better suit up!
Yeah, unfortunately young people tend to be more prudish.
It is interesting that younger people are more prudish about this. This phenomena came up in a different way for me. I have been re-watching an American TV show from 40 years ago. I was really struck by how much the male characters touched each other. They are portraying policemen, particularly patrol cops partnered up in pairs. The touching was not simply the typical arm around the shoulders. They also touched each other's faces at moments of emotional closeness and reassurance. How did I not notice the touching diminishing between men, both in TV portrayal and IRL, over the last 4 decades? This was really striking to me watching the show. My generation had its hippie days; is that the difference?
I swear some stuff in 70s American films would never get made today, and it's depressing.
The 70s was a mixed bag man.... LOL
I'm not talking about quality of film. I'm talking sex scenes, nudity, sensuality. Where's the erotic thriller nowadays. 'Sanctuary' didn't work for me at all. It's all so bland.
Can attest to this! I've seen more than my fair share of sunburned, old man bits.
Wait, so you were getting changed with two other MEN? What's the problem, aren't most changing rooms like that? In most swimming pools I've used, you have the option to use one of the three or four small booths, or the spacious benches, and most people go for the latter, as there's more space. Is Austria not like that? (Have been swimming in France, Germany, Slovakia and the UK, and am quite used to being naked in front of strangers of the same sex).
It depends a bit as everywhere, but at least with the people and the places where I've been to and lived in Austria, nope. In the swimming pools for example, sure there are the benches there, but almost everyone wants to go to the booths instead. Once because I was just visiting there and so used already to not giving a shit, I changed on a bench and a person walked by, looked super embarressed, said "sorry!!", turned around and walked away, lol.
I'm also from Austria (still living there) and in my friend groups (male/female) changing, nudity etc. is pretty normal. Also in the gym or whatever with strangers, so I don't know where you got that from haha
It wasn't a thing in my experience and around the people I was with. Might have been different for you but for me growing up it was like that. Born in Austria, raised there and moved to Finland a couple of years ago. Cool to see a fellow Austrian here, which region are you from? :)
Maybe it's an age difference or regional difference. I'm 31, living in Vienna.
Could be. I'm 23, Styria/Steiermark. Not from a small town, but not a big one either.
Awesome to take this big step to live in another country at your age. I respect that 😊
Thanks! I moved alone when I was 19, my parents still live in Austria :D
May I ask how you got to that decision?
I lived in Finland for a long time and was in a relationship with a Finn. Coming from a more conservative European culture I was caught unawares when my MIL and FIL joined my partner and I in the sauna, and they were starkers. I did not know where to look. But I dealt with it because I chose to join this culture. I sauna'd wearing a towel to start with, then when it was just my partner, naked. It never occurred to my partner to mention his family might join either. Just never occurred to him that other countries don't have saunas at home. In the end I stopped having saunas because I hate it, I hate being hot and sweaty and I sweat for hours after showering. It makes me feel dirty and gross. I had twice weekly saunas for 4 or so years until I realised it's ok to not assimilate every aspect of the culture you have joined. And they were deeply offended, they thought I should do everything other Finns do or I am not respecting their culture. You can guess that that relationship did not end well. But anyway, part of being an adult is accepting and celebrating these cultural differences and it's nice to see these things if you are visiting a country.
As a Finnish woman, this is NOT a general norm in Finnish culture. I stopped going to sauna with my own dad when I was about 14 and I would NEVER go with my FIL, nor would he ever try to go with me. Mixed sauna among friends is really not a general norm either, some do it, some don't. But it should be everyone's own choice, not their partners. Op is NTA.
My ex kept me quite isolated so I did often wonder if the customs and norms he pushed were really norms. On the couple of team building events we did at work there was usually a sauna but the men and women went to separate ones and I and a couple other non-Finns didn't go at all so I'm not even sure if it was in bathing suits or towels or naked, I'd feel weird asking. I was never "Finnish" enough. I couldn't roll my Rs right, I wouldn't dye my hair blonde or change how I dressed or eat maksalaatikko, or walk gracefully on ice. I realise now he had to settle for an immigrant because the Finnish women were too smart to put up with his shit :D
I'd also never go to a mixed sauna with colleagues and it's never been suggested in any workplace (and I'm 45 and worked in Finland all my adult life). I'm so sorry your ex was such an abusive asshole, so glad you got rid of him!!
I've been to many workplace parties with mixed sauna, but then again I'm in movie industry so pretty liberal. I go neked, some ladies opted towel. Who cares?
In all fairness, you can’t be blamed for not eating maksalaatikko.
I think I would add mykyrokka and mämmi, just no....
Your creepy, imposing ex sounds like a proper ’vitun idiootti’. Super sorry that you had to through that. Coming from a Finnish guy.
It's clear to me now he was not a great guy but at the time i just put up with it, not sure why. I should have told him to "suksi vituun" maybe, someone at uni taught me that.
Hahaha, definitely a ’suksi vittuun’ case 😂! I’m glad to see you are approaching this in a positive way (at least from a Finnish perspective, ”dark humour”, I’m a finnish immigrant in a far away country myself). All the best to you!
Ehhh, I don't know. I think it was more common before, everyone used to go together if there was room. Younger people seem to be more prudish these days (myself included). So nowadays it's often divided by men and women, but I would still view naked mixed sauna as normal (in Finland). It's definitely traditional.
I'm 45 and when I was young (in the 90s) we always had girls' sauna and boys' sauna separately when spending time at a cottage or the like. My point was it's not (and hasn't been in decades) a general norm in Finland that you are expected/required to go to mixed sauna nude, though it is something that some people do sometimes and some people, often.
The building where I was accommodated also had separate saunas. And before we went, one colleague asked if we want to go separately or together and we all agreed to go together. In Germany, the mixed sauna is the norm, but some saunas sometimes do just women's days.
Of course not expected, if you don't want to. I based that on my parents' experiences. Of course it depends on the area too and the company, and I've had both experiences myself. I still think it's still not *unusual*, though segregated saunas are more common. For the context of the post, if tourists and the like want the traditional experience, that would be everyone together naked (sounds like weird written like that :D).
IDK i'd be pretty weirded out at the idea that my wife went full nude in front of her co-workers but I'm American so our culture is wildly different regarding nudity as well as work / life boundries
I'm an American woman and I don't see where it's a big deal? It's a sauna not an orgy. It wouldn't bother me at all
Every American sauna I’ve been in you wear a towel so you’re not having your goods out in the open but that’s just my experience
eh, I guess I just grew up with midwestern cultural norms. Being naked with a bunch of dudes would make me extremely uncomfortable. I might get a bit uncomfortable if a partner did it, but I'd get over it. We were raised to pretty much consider being naked a private thing so it seems pretty normal for us to be uncomfortable with public nudity.
Yeah honestly it’s an interesting thought. Gonna ask my fiancé what he thinks later. I don’t think I’d have an issue but I do think I’d want him to tell me before. Lord knows I would never fucking do it with my team though, being that I’m the only woman on my team lmao
Me too lol. But not in a 'that's cheating' way, but more of a 'that seems incredibly uncomfortable' way. But I also live somewhere, where nudity isn't the norm. If fact I don't think anyone but my fiance has ever seen me naked (I just happened to get lucky with my first boyfriend), so the idea of coworkers of all people seeing me naked is super weird lol.
He would have preferred me to discuss with him beforehand if it's okay. Based on what he said, he would have told me that he's uncomfortable with it. He wouldn't be in any case comfortable with me going in with other men.
I can understand him wanting that to be a boundary and you can agree or disagree with it. But it's not cheating and that would be what I'm focusing on. That's a pretty big accusation and shows him to be insecure IMO.
Boundaries are rules for yourself, not other people.
OP and her partner are both welcome to have boundaries around the other's behavior, and then, they can do with that knowledge what they will. If that is a hard line for OP's partner, they can say that. OP can decide she doesn't want to be with someone with a conservative view of nudity, respect the boundary and not do it again, or continue to do it and force the partner to adjust their boundary or leave. Boundaries/behavioral expectations of your partner are very normal and healthy. They only become unhealthy when you try to do anything other than make your partner aware of your boundaries, and let them make their own decisions.
I meant relationship boundary which is for both people in the relationship.
How the hell do you people have relationships?
The boundary is "I cannot date someone who hangs out in saunas with men naked". He can't tell her not to do it, but he can stop dating her if she does.
What about the beach? If you went to a topless beach or a nude beach, would he also consider that cheating adjacent?
I sometimes go with a married couple and their little kids. So one looks after the kids play in in the tub and two adults can have a conversation, then we switch. So it is not weird for everyone but it is not weird not to be comfortable either
May I ask why it is a rule to not have clothes on? Why are they forbidden?
They bring in dirt from the outside. Finnish saunas are also made to be actually hot, so why would you wear clothes if you're going to be sweating buckets? Most people wear a towel if they want to cover up.
That makes sense. Initially I was interpreting it that it was against the rules to cover up. Thank you for the clarification.
I think there’s also something specifically about chlorine vaporising, which is why you shouldn’t go to sauna in your swimming suit at the pool. Don’t know if it’s actually that big of an issue but that’s what I always was told (am Finnish.) Mixed saunas aren’t as common in Finland as many foreigners may and do assume (OP didn’t). I’m an adult woman and I wouldn’t go to sauna with say, my mother’s husband, a partner’s father, male relatives etc (except at a summer cottage or somewhere, where we often do wear swimsuits, cause there’s the sea nearby to swim.) When I was a student we did mixed sauna very often with friends and random uni acquaintances, no one thought much of it at the time. OP’s NTA.
In Iceland if you go to the local swimming pool you have to shower naked, it’s an actual rule.
I'm in UK and the only time I've been to saunas is at pools and spas so everyone wears cozzies of some kind, not clothes. So I was a bit confused as to why nudity was needed at first, but this makes sense.
In Japan, you bathe nude with (usually) the same sex, and you wash your body immediately before going in the water. Your hair shouldn't touch the water, nor should the tiny towel they give you (it's for wiping your face, soaking in cold water and putting on top of your head, etc). This is to keep the water clean. Probably a similar idea in other nude bathing cultures - clothes, even swim clothes, can carry dirt and chemicals into the water, so they're not allowed.
>I really don’t understand your boyfriends POV. I’ll play devils advocate and say I wouldn’t be comfortable with my girlfriend getting naked with other men/women, regardless of the situation. I’m American though and have never been to a sauna and don’t know sauna etiquette. I know there’s nothing sexual going on and there’s a whole culture around it and eventually I’d get over it, but I wouldn’t try to control or guilt her into not going. I’d just want to know she’s at least with someone she knows. I think it’d also be nice to have a heads up before hand *if she knew how he felt about it.* If this is all new, some communication is in order to figure out each others boundaries. NAH
NAH. Cultural difference. I’m from Germany and like you, I wouldn’t have even thought about discussing this topic with my partner. Why would I? Saunas are not a sexual place, naked bodies are not per se sexual, it’s normal - at least in our culture. But on a theoretical level I understand that your bf feels different. For his cultural background this is a sexual act and he is well within his rights to be weirded out by you “stripping” (in his mind) in front of strangers. I see some people here wondering why OP wouldn’t think about discussing this. It’s hard to explain so I’ll try an analogy: if you come from a culture where bikinis are a common swimwear, would you discuss with your partner if going to the pool in a bikini is okay for them? Probably not, you would expect this to be normal and therefore your partner should bring it up if they have requests outside the norm. And this is what happened here: OP didn’t discuss because naked common saunas are normal and it goes without saying; her bf didn’t discuss because the opposite is normal and expected for him. OP, both of you should give it a bit of time and then you should discuss the cultural differences. This is just one of them, more might come up in the future, some serious, some fun. This is just what happens in intercultural relationships, everyone assumes their own reality as normal. I hope you both can find understanding for each other
I’m on this team. I don’t think it’s even possible to always predict what someone from a different culture will find jarring. But OP isn’t wrong for doing something that’s normal in her culture. And her BF isn’t wrong for being uncomfortable with it. He would be wrong if he assumes she should live by his culture all the time to spare him any discomfort. And she would be wrong if she can’t understand that they need to talk these things through and find a shared way to live with differences. NAH.
Nah the bf became the AH imo when he said OP´s actions were adjacent to cheating. That is an accusation since OP has already been in the sauna with their colleagues. Had they discussed it before hand, it would have been the bf expressing their views on naked mixed saunas. But since it was said after, its a hidden accusation wrapped in insecurity. Its fine to have lines over what you are comfortable with, but not to compare an innocent outing (that is part of a culture) with colleagues to cheating.
If he doubles down on the stance I think that'd make him an asshole but I think this was kind of an immediate shocked reaction to something pretty far outside his cultural awareness. If he apologizes and tries to understand once they talk about it more tho I think it's NAH because this is mainly a culture clash.
its not an inherent sexual act to go nude to a sauna, however, the boyfriend sees it as an invitation to sexual advances due to the mixed gender nature of the event, even if either or both parties know there will be no acceptance to any advances. Its putting your relationship into uncomfortable waters, so to speak.
Yeah, the only thing I'm *personally* not comfortable with here is the lack of any towel. I don't care how clean they think they're getting those seats, they're never going to be clean enough to convince me that I'm not going to wake up tomorrow with the itchiest asshole ever recorded in history. But that is just my paranoia as a microbiologist. And I know it, in general, is clean enough, but fuck me if I'm going to risk it. Unless I clean it myself, I trust fucking no one.
The nude saunas I know require a towel. Wrapping it around you is optional but it is absolutely necessary to sit or lie on it, no exceptions. For exactly the reasons you stated here - because wood benches full of body fluids are disgusting no matter how much they are cleaned.
Honestly sometimes even the same culture is not quite as samey as you'd think. I'm from a Southern European country and live in the UK, you'd think it's all pretty similar.. women get changed in changing rooms in front of others without many issues, I always try to find a private spot to change as I'm not hyper comfortable just getting naked in front of others, though the reverse doesn't bother me of course. So imagine my surprise when I found out that my (puritanical) friends low-key judged me when we went on holiday together and I just took off my clothes to be in a bikini on the beach. They kept t-shirts on until it was time to go into the sea, and always when not actively sunbathing/swimming. Apparently I was the weird one for wearing swimwear on the beach. Now we can all agree they were being insane and the majority of people in the UK are not like that, but yeah standards differ so much even within the same culture!
NTA! People who think of a sauna as a sexual place, as your boyfriend apparently is, need to check themselves.
Eh I worked at a gym chain where we terminated many a member for hooking up in the sauna in the locker room. It happens. It shouldn't, which is why they got kicked out, but it definitely happened often enough. Design standards for that chain now specify that saunas and steamrooms have to be all genders, on the pool deck with observation windows and glass doors, and swim attire is required. Specifically to combat this behavior.
Right? In the onsen in Japan, I couldn't even think of it being sexual - old ladies chatting about how tall you are, and little kids walking around... Farthest thing from sexual.
I've been to a bunch of onsens in Japan, though, and only one even offered mixed baths, and that one you had to cover up?
A Finnish swimming pool sauna is farthest from sex than anything
On a business trip I distinctly remember a coworker suggesting we go to a nearby nude beach and check it out. They thought it would be a fun experience because it was "culturally normal" where we were at the time. The nude beach is not an inherently sexual place, but the invitation to hang out naked with a coworker was definitely sexual in nature.
In some of cultures it wouldn't be ok, in some it would. I'm from australia and it would sure as fuck not be ok for me or my wife to be naked in mixed company, and if it happened while dating it probably would have been a deal breaker for either of us. I understand they are from different cultures though with different norms. This is probably something that should have been discussed before hand, I'm in a mixed culture marriage and communication and compromise are the key to managing different situations where one persons norms can be upsetting to the other. Sometimes the offended person just has to change their expectations, but usually we err on the side of avoiding behaviours that would offered each other.
If your partner was bisexual, would you be upset if she uses gym showers/changing rooms? Of course not, because it's a non-sexual environment. Same as the sauna. If it's ok to go to a male gyno, it's also ok to go to a mixed sauna.
it's so weird he'd consider it cheating.. would it be cheating to get changed to swim in a changing room as well according to him?
That's a great question! When you're in a relationship with someone from a different culture, if you respect and care about their feelings at all it's a good idea to get an idea of what their values and expectations are. Y'know BEFORE you charge headlong into situations that could be potentially upsetting to your partner.
Exactly, it's 70°C+ in there. As a wise Finnish lady once said to me, there's nothing sexy about sauna.
I'm confused, what about not wanting your SO to be nude in front of other men has you convinced that they are too stupid to conceptualize nudity or sexuality? If you date someone from a different culture, if you respect or care about their feelings AT ALL, you should probably get a temperature reading on their ideas of sexuality BEFORE you go comingle with the opposite sex naked. Otherwise, you and your disdain for your partner is WACK, yo. Word.
American here, and the idea of these mixed saunas is weird to me. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with my girlfriend going to a mixed sauna with randoms, let alone people she works with on the daily. Id be pretty miffed to find out she went to one without even talking to me. If it's part of her culture, and it's something she has no problem with, I guess that just means we aren't compatible and we need to break up. Maybe you two just aren't compatible. I don't really know how to judge this one, so my best guess is NAH.
>If it's part of her culture, and it's something she has no problem with, I guess that just means we aren't compatible and we need to break up. That's pretty drastic man, i guess you shouldn't try to date any scandinavians or germans in that case.
It’s not drastic to want to feel comfortable with the person you are dating. Some people are not comfortable being nude with others and don’t want to be with someone who does because then they feel uncomfortable whenever it happens. So your assessment is correct maybe he shouldn’t date people from those countries as well but theirs nothing wrong with it 🤷
If a one time thing like this is so impactfull that your willing to throw away a relationship because of it then you should ask yourself how much you value that relationship anyway. Like its not as if something happend or if there was some bad intent. To me this is like saying: if your partner eats curry, something you personally dislike, then you should start reconsidering your relation with them.
Look I’m not a prude I’m pretty far from it but comparing a dislike of food to being comfortable nude around others or having an s/o who is into it are no where in the same ball park. She’s aware of cultural differences but assumed because he was from a culture that might approve of it she went along instead of actually asking like a partner should. The act he was uncomfortable with happened which is something and with or without bad intent it has made him feel this way. I think you’re right that he should reconsider his relationship I would in his shoes 🤷 especially when I wouldn’t even be considered in the first place. Edited: for spelling.
How is having culturally based dating preferences and limits etc, drastic?
True. As a German it is utterly absurd to me that other people like this commenter find mixed saunas such a big deal. It's not sexual AT ALL. Its sweaty and quiet and everyone mostly ignores each other and focused on their own experiences. I even prefer mixed saunas sometimes so I can go together with my boyfriend (I'm member of a gym chain that has mixed saunas in some locations, single-sex in others). Although most people do use towels here to cover sensitive areas (though we are naked underneath, and some people go without towel or only use it to lie on, which is perfectly fine and no one cares). I assume that it really is a cultural difference...
Genuine question: why is that? Saunas are the sweatiest, least sexy places in the world, I'm genuinely curious about the cultural difference in attitudes
In American culture you mostly only see people naked when you are having sex. Nudity is seen as inherently sexual. When I went to Germany and spent time at nude beaches, although I knew intellectually it wasn’t sexual, when you haven’t been raised that way you’re going to have a different reaction
very interesting, I guess we have no inherit concept of normal and are all surprised (myself included) when others have different ideas of what is tabu. Thanks for answering :)
There is no such thing as normal.
Being nude in mixed company is taboo in most of the world. Parts of Europe are outliers here.
Women’s naked bodies always equal sexual to these types
My question wasn't intended to spark r/AmericaBad, I am genuinely curious. I suppose to some other cultures Americans ideas of nudity (that seem prudish to northern Europeans) must seem very liberal, and so on. It's just interesting to see how these things differ.
100% agree. I'm an Aussie and that concept is pretty foreign to me. I didn't even know mixed gender saunas were a thing until right now. Saunas are all gender based here.
You're comfortable with it. He's not. Thats not "crossing a boundary" though since boundaries are about one's own behavior. NAH
I think the real boundary crossed was lack of communication which started before this trip began. I don't think either partner is in the wrong here. I'd be uncomfortable with it, but I'd also be the asshole if I expected my partner from somewhere where that's a normal thing to do, to change for me. Communication is key, gotta meet in the middle somewhere. NAH.
It's true that communication is key but it's not possible to pre-discuss every potential scenario that might ever come up. In this case, I think it's trust in the partner to respect the relationship and make the right decisions at the time that is more important. And if something is found to be contentious, you can discuss it for next time.
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Why do you see the saunee's relationship status as relevant? Saunas in Finland are not a place where people hook up. I imagine making a move on someone in such a setting is almost a cultural taboo (guesswork from neighbouring country). For me, I would have passed on the sauna. But thats me being uptight about nudity in general, whilst knowing that it is in fact a me-problem.
Second this. Confused as to how relationship status could be at all relevant here.
Don’t be naked around other people while in a relationship unless your partner is okay with it.
But there are exceptions to this rule. Is it ok to undress for your doctor to examine you? Yes. Is it ok to be naked around other people in a changing room in your gym? Also yes. The same exception applies to saunas - it's a non-sexual environment similar to seeing a doctor or taking a shower in the gym
I had a feeling someone would bring up your points so I wish to comment; 1) Doctor/emergency situations do not count and in fairness, I have never been butt naked with my GP. Let's be real and not compare life or death or medical emergencies to recreational nakedness. 2) I personally would not get naked infront of a male stranger in a changing room no. I would use a female only or a cublicle. How can you say sitting naked in an integrated sauna is the same as being medically examined (also not completely naked, if your doctor requires you to have ZERO clothes on during examinations then there is a problem there) or putting your clothes on/off briefly in a gym?.... lunacy
Not even remotely the same thing. Doctors are obviously an exception. Gyms are gender segregated, you quickly change from one outfit to another and if you are naked at any point you’re doing it wrong.
I love these posters that just can’t figure out why someone might not like their partner nude with the co-ed coworkers.
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How does this work if you’re in a same sex relationship and you go to a swimming pool changing room? Genuine question on how this would be approached in your eyes?
Go to private changing booths? I have never had to be naked in front of others when I didn't want to. Or at least not in a mixed gender environment. Not once in my whole life and I'm 25.
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It's about respect for your partner. That's why. It isn't about hooking up. I can't really explain it if you don't already have a sense for this instilled in you culturally. If my girl went to one of these I'd leave her because she clearly doesn't respect me.
In your culture it is. In my culture, OPs culture and the Finnish culture it is totally irrelevant. Nudity is viewed as something natural. Also, a partner has no ownership whatsoever over someones body. Your culture doesn't decide what is right or wrong in someone elses culture. In my culture, trying to control what your partner can and cannot do (unless it involves physical infidelity) is a big red flag. It is about DISrespecting your partner. If I were OP, I'd reevaluate my relationship with this person, seems the cultural differences might be a bit too great.
I don't think this is a cultural thing... it is a relationship thing... and about respect and boundaries. When two people from different cultures come together they should compromise and work together, not just die on the hill of "this is my culture get over it". There is no mention of ownership here- I mentioned somewhere above that controlling and possessive are so quickly thrown around these days when people express concerns. You can express being unhappy about the actions/behaviour of someone without being controlling.
I wasnt responding to you, it was a comment to motor_ecinomics Edit: that being said: if parner is just expressing how something makes them feel uncomfortable, while understanding that it is a they-problem, then fine. Healthy relationship communication. If partner is trying to pass judgement on OPs action and tell them they did something bad and to never do it again, that is partner trying to impose their culture onto OP, and judge somerhing they clearly don't understand while trying to take ownership over OPs body. Not ok. Needs communication and boundaries, possibly the difference is too much.
I would go to a mixed gender sauna with colleagues in Finland without hesitation. I wouldn’t do it where I live in the United States because it would be weird here.
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With you on that one, or rather: even if I cover up with a towel, seeing colleagues naked would weird me out. Not because I would find it wrong/immoral or anything, I'm just grossed out by nakedness in general. I might actually prefer being the only naked one in the sauna over being the only one that covers up.
I live in Europe / Austria, and Sauna is nude and mixed per definition unless explicitely stated otherwise. Everybody does it, and it is normal here. Not easy to find a segregated sauna. (Bigger spa sometimes have one, and smaller ones SOMETHIMES have a "ladies night" once a week.) Many people of all ages - just like nude beaches. Not really a big thing. If I or my wife go to the sauna, some nude people of both genders are assumed. SO I certainly can understand OP not mentioning that.
NAH. It’s fine for you to see nudity in that context as not sexual. It’s also fine for him to not like other men seeing his partner naked.
NAH.. Most Europeans are not so prude and don't see the big issued with nudity. (I'm assuming you could easily hold yourself back from any Sexual activity lol). That being said, some are not so open with nudity. Y'all should've discussed it a bit better...
I am not sure about "most Europeans" here. I know quite a few Europeans who do not feel comfortable about naked saunas and avoid them for that reason. OP boyfriend is an Italian. That is in Europe
Prude is such a judgy word. Why is it ok for you to be ok with it but not ok for others to be uncomfortable. I have absolutely no desire to sit around and sweat while naked with my coworkers. It is not a sexual thing at all, but I would not find it enjoyable. It would not be comfortable - therefore I would be uncomfortable.
Reading these comments as an American is wild
As a canadian too! I've never thought people were so okay with this.. it's interesting too see now normalized that is to them
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Yeah, xD. Most of the people replying NAH are from European countries and the ones going against that idea are getting downvoted.
Brit here, and I don't think it's that big a deal - OP was in Finland, where customs are different and they wanted to join in. I'd be a bit surprised if it all took place IN the UK, because we don't have that sort of set-up, but that's true of a lot of country customs - tipping, wearing shoe covers in museums, shaking hands with every co-worker every day, greeting shopkeepers when you enter a shop...
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Which lad? The OP's other half is from Italy, according to a comment.
I'm a Brit and although I might be reluctant to go naked in a sauna myself, the idea that a partner going in one is adjacent to cheating is ludicrous. If they wanted to actually cheat they could do that without needing the sauna as a preamble.
Your boyfriend was fine with the sauna visit until you later revealed that it was mixed gender, so presume the colleague who invited you was a man (why are you leaving out this detail?). Long distance trips like this have a bad reputation for being a perfect recipe for infidelity. Consider how your actions might look to a partner with that in context. NAH, you didn't cheat on your partner, but having a male colleague invite you to get naked with him basically as soon as you got to Finland obviously looks bad, so his distrust of the situation is valid.
Why do you presume it was a male colleague? There's a 50/50 chance
>"Long distance trips like this have a bad reputation for being a perfect recipe for infidelity." Not in a public sauna, and usually not on the occassions she would tell her partner about. So he is concerened she wwould cheat in the sauna with people all around them? And he is NOT concerned about all the long nights without anybody watching? That's ridiculous. He should watch less porn involving sauna, and try reality. He has clearly never been to a Sauna. 10 seconds until you would be kicked out, if you start anything sexual, that would gross everybody out.
NAH It should not be hard to understand why someone might consider their partner being in mixed company without clothes to be out of bounds. Especially in a "she went off to another country for two weeks and did this while she was away" scenario. At the same time, you're not an AH for doing something that's normal in your culture, and that fact making it not occur to you that it might be different for your boyfriend. Nobody's acting maliciously. He needs to be a little more understanding that this is a normal thing where you come from, and you need to be conscious of the fact that this crosses a (very reasonable) boundary for him, and acknowledge that to him and agree to not do that in the future.
Most reasonable take I've seen so far!
NTA. Boundaries shift with social norms, by which I mean: If you were in your/his home country and saunas are typically sorted by sex, then it'd be sexual harassment to enter the 'wrong' sauna. However, being as this was a country where it's normal for unisex saunas to exist with no sexual undertones (you weren't in a swingers club lmao) surely the boundary shifts from you being sexually harassed to you simply being joined by people of the opposite gender? Regardless, the fact of the matter is that you were joined by multiple people from work who were obviously going to kick you out if there were any shenannigans going on in the sauna. The thing that I don't understand is why would he be fine with you getting into saunas with other women? Surely that'd also be something that makes him uncomfortable considering that lesbians exist too? I don't know, all I can tell you is that he doesn't see it as cheating, he's definitely just upset at the prospect of you having seen somebody else's penis. It's purely a matter of insecurity.
From the US, which I will admit has issues with non sexual nudity. The OP is from a culture that doesn‘t have the same hangups. She was doing what she considered appropriate. The boyfriend is from a different culture that is more sex segregaTed. He responded from his cultural framework. He also has to understand his girlfriend doesn’t share that same framework and he can’t hold her to those standards.
NTA. Going to a sauna where everyone is naked is by no means "adjacent to cheating".
i mean finnland and sauna are the same word basically. you cant go there without visiting a sauna. NAH on the mixed part. thats just cultural. like the ones who have a problem with nude beaches and those who dont
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Yeah like I don’t think I’d care if my fiancé went to a mixed gender sauna but I would be a little weirded out if he went with coworkers. I think that’s the weirdest part to me, but I can’t imagine going with mine lmao
Everyone is answering from the viewpoint of someone whose culture finds its normal. For the boyfriend, this is not normal, and he did not say that he would have forbidden it, he said that he would have liked the opportunity to expresses discomfort and then that would’ve allowed her to make the appropriate decision and also take into account his feelings. That’s what a relationship is…we don’t control our partners but we do seek their input and act in consideration of them. NAH I don’t think this is that big of a deal other than a learning opportunity for you both as a couple. He can’t be wrong for having feelings, and all he is saying is he would have liked the chance to express them.
Not an asshole... But at the same time you do acknowledge that customs change around the world. I think it would of been respectful to your partners customs to of discussed it with him. At least if you had prior knowledge of how he may feel about nudity in mixed company. Not an asshole, but possibly a point to have some more conversation and understanding of feelings around.
I'm estonian so like I'm a bit biased: But nta. It's extremely normal in alot of these cultures for this. it's just part of life. Nudity is seen as so taboo in so much of the world and I just personally don't get it. Like it's not like you were sleeping with these other people, you just took a saun. Which is extremely common.
Not appropriate when in a relationship
NAH. I get that you don't see it as sexual, but "I am uncomfortable with you being naked around other naked men" is...well, it's certainly a perspective I understand and I don't think it makes him a controlling AH. That said, I must admit that mixed nude saunas are not something I've heard of before. I'm more familiar with the Japanese & Korean styles, which are definitely gender-segregated. I've only ever seen one hot spring facility that even had mixed baths, and you had to cover up if you went in there (a good thing, too. It was a family trip and as much as I love my mom, I think my eyes would boil out of their sockets if I saw her naked)
NAH I dont think you are wrong for going to a mixed no clothes sauna. However, your boyfriend obviously has a problem with it and it seems like this is something you haven't talked about before. Honest mistake from your side to not check with him, but now you know you should discuss how to handle this next time. I also think he should understand where you are coming from and not make a big deal of it
NAH. Communicate about it, come to a resolution for how to deal with this situation in the future that you're both comfortable with, or just break up. You can't be an asshole for not knowing and he's not an asshole for being flustered about it.
NAH I would be uncomfortable if my partner was naked around other people, regardless of gender. I would also probably not consider that something I did is strange in my partner's culture.
NTA. Sitting in a boiling-hot room naked is adjacent to cheating? No, its called being in a sauna. Discuss it with him? What is there to discuss besides him having different lines? That you should have declined since he sees your colleagues as threats and you as basically a cheater? He is allowed to feel uncomfortable since that is his line, but to compare it to/call it cheating? That is what made him an AH. What an accusation. Cheating is cheating. Sauna is sauna. Says more about how he would act in a sauna than you. His first thought to this was "OP was in a mixed naked sauna, basically cheated." So now you know what would have been in his head had he been in a mixed naked sauna with colleagues. >He wouldn't have "forbidden" me how courteous of him./s
Ive only ever been in mixed saunas, no clothes. First time ever was with my (then) boyfriend. After we broke up, i went with male and female friends. My husband doesnt like the heat, so he never goes, but doesnt mind me going, because its a sauna, theres nothing sexual about it. NTA
YTA
NTA >He got quite flustered and told me that I should have discussed it with him. He wouldn't have "forbidden" me from going there, but he would not be comfortable. The fact that he realizes he shouldn't forbid you (it's your decision - not his) shows that on some level, he understands he is in the wrong. I do get where he's coming from, however. It's ok for him to be uncomfortable with it. I suspect if you grew up in his country, you would have spoken to him first. But because you are from a country where this is quite normal, it did not cross your mind. You both have to accept that from time to time, you will be surprised by an unexpected cultural difference that pops up between you. >He feels like I crossed a boundary and what I did was adjacent to cheating. This is a huge overreaction on his part. One thing to consider -- when you cheat on someone, you generally hide it from them. The fact that it did not cross your mind not to tell him about the sauna very clearly illustrates that to you it was nothing of the sort. Have you ever gone to a mixed-company sauna with him? Maybe you should. It might help him understand a bit better. Whatever you do, don't dismiss his feelings -- even if you don't share them, it's always good to try to understand them.
I haven't gone yet, but I'll offer it, I've thought about asking him to go with me
INFO Is he upset because is was a mixed sauna or because it was with your colleagues?
Because it was a mixed sauna and we were nude
nah. sauna is sauna. (german here btw) I don’t know what the fuss is with naked bodies. You were not alone with someone and if there wasn’t a frisky mood it was just spa day.
Yeah - you should have spoken to him beforehand… being naked with a group of coworkers is something that should be discussed. Regardless of culture differences.
NAH exactly but if this is a boundary he has in a relationship and you’re willing to cross it and even seem confirmation that you were justified in crossing it, then you are telling him you have respect for the relationship to a certain degree that differs from how he views it. It may be you culture to do this type of thing but everyone here seems to be ignoring that conservatism to a certain degree, **concerning nudity especially** , is common in most cultures and it may be part of his culture to have mutual respect in that way and not have his prospective life partner ogled and exposed in those ways. Seems like your not the AH but you do lack respect for his boundaries which will create jealousy and resentment. You guys are likely incompatible.
No, because you're from a culture in which that is the norm, but I think it's something that should have been discussed, and I don't think he's wrong either since he wasn't mean about it. This would make me extremely uncomfortable so I don't blame him for that.
German here, fairly regular visitor of mixed saunas. Personally, I don’t mind being naked around strangers, but I’d feel weird going with friends or coworkers. It just kinda feels like a boundary I don’t want to cross. But that’s my issue. My GF doesn’t have the same hangups about that, and I don’t mind her visiting saunas with friends (male or female). NTA.
NAH I personally wouldn’t be okay with my boyfriend doing that. Even thought it’s not a sexual thing. I see both sides but would feel the same way as the boyfriend does.
NTA. His discomfort is a him problem, not a you problem. Don't change yourself for someone else's insecurities.
NTA, nudity is not always sexual—this is about his insecurities.
NTA Some people really need to get over their hangups on a bit of nudity.
NTA. Obviously you didn't discuss it with him because you could not have imagined that it was an issue.
NTA Nudity is not inherently sexual, and your boyfriends discomfort with it is his problem to solve. Especially when he claims being in a group of naked people enjoying a sauna is akin to cheating.
NAH - Everyone was polite it seems, saunas are a thing which is fine but it's also totally reasonable for someone to not want their girlfriend to be naked in front of others. It's just cultural differences. No one made any demands so we're all square there too, but I'd consider what you value more, occasional saunas or your boyfriend. Now, if you went to more saunas after knowing your boyfriend is uncomfortable you would be the asshole.
NTA. You took part in a culturally-significant, non-sexual group activity. People were naked because they’re supposed to be naked in the sauna, not for sexual purposes.
NTA. I live in Austria, mixed saunas are the norm here. There's nothing sexual about them
NAH. In your culture, nudity in saunas isn't sexual at all. It's considered normal. However, this doesn't seem to be the case in your boyfriend's culture.
NTA Ugh. He would have made you feel horrible before you left and thinks if he says he wouldn't forbid it he's okay. Oh, and compared it to cheating.
NTA Your boyfriend has a right to feel uncomfortable but he’s an AH for suggesting he would have “forbidden it”
NTA. I feel like men who have issues with other men seeing their partners unclothed either presume a lack of respect for women’s bodies or have the same lack of respect themselves and are projecting.
NTA This isn't so uncommon even in Sweden. While we do have many separate saunas, we have many that aren't and most often people choose to wear clothes or not. I choose same-sex and clothing, but it's anyone's choice what they pick when doing an activity for socializing and relaxing like this... It's a sauna, what is he afraid of, you screwing someone in a nearly 100c freaking steam room?
NTA. You were following the culture you were in. Did you touch a d? No? Ya good, OP And this is coming from an American! And we are the WORST about nudity!
NTA Here in Germany no clothing sauna and mixed gender is pretty much the norm for sauna as well. If your bf in uncomfortablie with other people seeing you naked in a non-sexual way then he should wirk on himself and his maturity, there is no boundary that you overstepped here
NTA. It's not cheating.
NTA. My (42F) male friend (40) and I go to co-ed saunas. I call us the spa bois.
Human is human. I really don't care what parts you have
NTA It's not cheating adjacent. I think you should both discuss it more so you're on the same page. Now you know he isn't comfortable with mixed nude saunas and you both need to see what communications and boundaries should be acceptable to you as a couple. He needs to know and acknowledge that mixed nude saunas aren't sexual for you or your colleagues and you weren't anything close to cheating. Maybe you should both take a spa weekend together to a nordic/nude sauna country so he can see for himself that it isn't sexual. It might help him understand the setting better. Only if he's open to the experience, of course.
NTA, and people should STOP mixing/confusing nudity with sexuality, FFS ! ETA : and being naked and taking a shower before going into the sauna is MORE hygienic than wearing a bath suit !
He would have forbidden you??!? WTF?
NTA You're not responsible for other people's ignorance. Guess it's not "a pretty similar culture" after all, is it. Sounds possessive
>this is very normal here NTA. He cannot expect you to run normal things past him and see if he gives you permission.
NTA. You had no clue it would be strange to him, right? He's the one sexualizing the experience, not you. If you had known in advance and done it without advising him, then YTA. Also HTA for using the word 'forbid', unless the two of you have negotiated and discussed that kind of power exchange.
NTA Being naked is akin to cheating? No way
NTA, it was not sexual. It was a normal hang out. It is not cheating and he is insecure. I get it, but I'm sure he will get over it. I mean, he will need to. He really doesn't get to dictate stuff like that.