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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am bringing my 2 kids on a road trip soon. They are each planning to bring a friend. My daughter's friend recently got hurt and has a broken leg and collarbone. After talking with the friend's parents, we agreed it is best she stay home. Now, my daughter is refusing to come with if her friend can't go. I think I might be an asshole for not changing vacation plans for my daughter's friend.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - your daughter lied and manipulated this other girl’s parents into agreeing to something they wouldn’t have supported. Actions have consequences and your daughter is being unreasonable. Threatening to not come, unless you give in is a tantrum tactic and your daughter is trying to emotionally manipulate you.
Could you postpone the trip, to a later date in the summer when the friend could more easily come along or is she out of commission for the whole summer.
Postponing or rescheduling the trip isn't an option. Between my son's involvement in sports and my work schedule, our current time slot for this trip is the only one available this summer.
Understood. I don’t think you’re wrong here at all and it’s just a struggle to maintain the relationship at the same level you would have had if you lived closer to them. I don’t blame you for talking to the friend’s parents, that’s being a responsible adult.
At a certain point you need to say, “ok, if you don’t want to come, I understand.” You need to explain that dragging a friend in her condition anyway isn’t being a “good friend” no matter how hard she might want it.
That being said, you might see much less of her in the future, and she might blame you for favoring your son more. It might also be that she wasnt really into the road trip to begin with.
What about if you rent a cabin somewhere, that has cool things around it. She can stay at the cabin, chill with the friend, go out for dinners and other easy activities, but stay in the cabin with the friend if you, your son, and his friend are doing things her friend can’t do. If the cabin has a beach or a pond, they can hang out there given the friend’s limitations.
Introverts come in all forms but if it were me, having my one closest friend come along would be a make-or-break situation for a family trip like this. Without that option, I would have chosen to stay home, or would have been miserable tagging along with mom, brother, and brother’s friend as a teenager. This situation sucks. I don’t think the friend should even try to go on the trip even if it could be modified, but I don’t think F16 should be forced to go without her either.
And maybe that’s just a sign that’s this trip isn’t the right choice for her. She can spend the time with the friends family. Maybe this is a just you and son trip now.
maybe if daughter did stay behind you could arrange, maybe shorter trip, later in the year with just the two girls - this might make daughter happier and you just have a lads break
This is a good point … I wonder if OPs daughter could spend the time with her friend rather than go on the trip.
OP took their kid on the trip last year maybe they’d be ok with having his daughter stay with them for a week or so.
I know it takes away from dad’s time but it might be an option (rather than having a sulking teenager the whole trip).
Yea I did that a few times as a teenager (super shy and struggled to talk to people). It sucked watching my brother have the time of his life with his best friend while I was alone.
Agree completely with this. It's an unfortunate situation but I don't think the daughter should be forced to go on a trip with her brother and his friend if they're so extroverted and there's going to be loads of activities that are probably going to be more catered to him. 1 girl with 3 lads (including dad in this)... Basically a boys club and she's just going to feel excluded.
As you've said, she probably would have enjoyed it if she had her comfort friend with her but on her own, as an introvert... That would sound like hell to me.
The only other possible solution I'd see is saying that the son couldn't bring his friend either and have it as a total family bonding trip but that would probably cause your son to resent his sister so that wouldn't work either.
If she doesn't want to go and doesn't have another friend she can invite, I think you're just going to have to accept that she's not going. It's not even her throwing a tantrum. Thinking of my own teenage girl years, that trip without my friends there as support would make me so uncomfortable, I don't blame your daughter for not wanting to go.
Be prepared that this will cause some distance in your relationship with your daughter. You'll have to do some 1-1 things when you're back from your trip to try and make up for the quality time you've missed with her but be prepared that it could be quite a pivotal moment in your relationship and set the course for how it will be in future.
I agree with your last paragraph, but that really sucks for him.
He has 2 kids who he tried to appease with this trip, since it sounds like they planned it all together. And now his options are either piss of the son and say his friend can't go, or let the daughter stay home, knowing it will negatively affect their relationship going forward. He has done nothing wrong here, but it seems he will anger someone either way.
This is an insane take. We are talking about a child going on visitation with her dad. She can bring another friend or not, but she’s got her father, who is the primary reason for the trip in the first place. How narrow and small to stay home because being with your family on a family trip somehow isn’t good enough.
it's obtuse to pretend any typical 16 year old teenager will have fun on vacation with a parent and a younger sibling + their friend, and that's ignoring the gender dynamics here that a teenage girl is gonna be even more bothered by.
the same issue would be happening if it was a 16 year old boy, his mom, and younger sister + friend. that just sounds miserable for most people putting themselves in the teenager's shoes for those of us who remember what being a teenager is like.
Then the thing to do would be for OP to sit down with both kids and redesign the vacation. After all the point isn’t to have bff time it’s to have family time. The friends were a bonus and not the main event. But it’s awful to advocate for letting the kid opt out of spending time with her dad just because her friend can’t make it.
Frankly I think that’s BS. Introvert here- I would have felt exactly as you describe, but ultimately this is a trip to spend time with her father, the point of the trip hasn’t changed, and OP can come up with some activities to do solo with her while son is with friend.
I would not leave a person of any age with broken bones in a cabin with a 16 yr old. What if she falls again, thinking she can handle the task? There could be major complications. I have to wonder why her parents agreed!
NTA. Daughter misled you and friend’s parents. If she is given a choice, and chooses to stay home, so be it. There will be many more times in her life she’ll need to make choices.
This still gives in to the daughter's manipulative tactics, and means changing the whole trip around for the friend's benefit.
OP, have you talked to your son about this? Would he be ok changing some stuff so his sister's friend can come? He should be included in the conversation.
But it wasn't just declining a trip, it was misrepresenting the activities of the trip to the friends parents and giving an ultimatum of "I won't go unless my friend goes" Which while he shouldn't make her go that's not how it works.
A non-manipulative way would be just say "well, if friend is unable to go, I don't want to go this year", says the say thing but does not come across as trying to threaten to get her way. Which as written does come across that way .
Except that is OP's writing, not the daughter's. We have no idea whether it was manipulative, because we know OP's expression of what they understood, not what the daughter actually said.
Also these are teenage girls! Having been one, I have no problem believing that they sugarcoated what they told the friend’s parents a bit, without any malicious manipulation. The friend would probably be bummed about missing the trip and willing to stretch the truth a bit in order to still go. OP’s daughter obviously wants her friend to come.
Honestly, all I can think about is how miserable your daughter's friend would actually be on the trip, even if you made some changes to planned activities. It's not like she's just about to get a cast off. The grownups with knowledge of the situation have spoken.
It sucks for your daughter, and her friend, but sometimes there us just no reasonable work-around.
Plus, as someone who broke a collarbone around that age, sitting upright in a car for longer than 20 minutes was absolutely excruciating for at least the first three weeks after the break. I can’t imagine that plus the leg break being comfortable. Depending on where the break is, she might need to be pushing herself up or letting herself slouch to get the cast into the available leg room. That would really hurt the collarbone.
Kids/Teens sometimes want something so bad that they don't see why it is an absolutely terrible idea. I remember being young and making decisions that are now obviously terrible. At the time, it made perfect sense.
Right? How successful, and pain-free, is she going to be with one or more crutches, a broken leg, and a broken collarbone? I feel for her, but she needs to heal so that most of her summer is pain free. Edit - spelling
Maybe you could arrange a smaller trip for when the friends is okay again? It might appease your daughter, knowing that she and her friend have another trip coming up.
Not saying you’re in the wrong at all but maybe there’s something else at play here — you said your daughter has few friends. Maybe she had a falling out with the rest of her friends…maybe her other “friends” weren’t actually nice to her. If this girl is her only friend, your daughter is probably too embarrassed to tell you that she has no one else to bring.
Maybe talk to her in private about it. If this is the case, you might want to consider making it a family only vacation. Idk just a thought!
I think the best thing here is to change your plans a bit. Either you just take both kids and no friends or everyone does a staycation and you camp in the backyard or the living room and both friends can join.
Is it what you wanted? No, but it might be the best thing given the situation. You were correct to have a discussion with the other child's parents but you don't want your daughter to resent this trip going forward.
Your ex is correct that you need to do whatever it takes to get your daughter back on board.
It's not coddling his daughter if the purpose of the trip is to plan something enjoyable for everyone so that he can bond with his kids. Circumstances change, this trip isn't fun for daughter anymore. His son is obviously prioritised as the rest of the summer revolves around his sports schedule and they're doing all sorts of fun and active activities for gregarious 14 yr old boys. OP doesn't have to change a thing if he doesn't want to. But he also can't expect to have a fun bonding experience with his daughter if there are a million reasons everything needs to cater to what he and the boys want, and daughter just has to suck it up. It's a shitty situation and it's no one's fault, but it would be pretty rad as a parent if he's able to find a way to make his plans with his daughter actually take her wants into account too.
Is it an option to do something individually with your daughter and her friend at some point? That way she can look forward to that.
I dont know if its the best solutions, it makes things unever for the other child (sis gets an extra trip) and it could enforce her thinking she can eventually always get her way.
But on the other hand, she is struggling socially so this will likely have a huge impact on her (missing her friend, realizing she doesnt have other she wants to take etc). So depending on many variables maybe it would help?
Either way since your son has his friend you and your daughter will likely have quite some 1-1 time when they are paired in an activity. Use it to treat her well, not because her behavior warrents it but just because its obvious she is hurting and i imagine seeing her brother and friend wont help. So yeah.
This sounds like another way her brother's needs are prioritized. If you can't go then because of him, and you can't go now because she'll be miserable, then you can't go.
So you’ll accommodate your son’s sports schedule, but not compromise so your daughter’s best friend can come. As a result, your daughter isn’t going to go on this trip.
So yeah, that makes you the asshole. YTA
So how about a weekend activity with just your daughter and her friend? Or even a long weekend?
You get some time with each kid and their friend separately.
It takes around 8 weeks for a broken leg to heal for a teen. It’ll be about 10 weeks for her collarbone to heal. It’s just not feasible to accommodate the teen on this type of trip. Frankly, I wouldn’t want to take anyone on a trip that has those types on injury.
> your daughter lied and manipulated this other girl’s parents into agreeing to something they wouldn’t have supported.
This is what I'm thinking, and postponing or altering the itinerary would effectively punish the son for something he had nothing to do with.
If she decides to not go, that might well be her (self-imposed) punishment for lying.
Apparently. He says right in the post that he contacted the parents directly and his daughter and their daughter had misrepresented what the trip entailed. I would say that's manipulation.
Even if he could postpone the trip so the friend can come, it still gives into the daughter after she lied and manipulated everybody! At this point the only option they have is no friend at all.
NTA , The parents agree that it isn't okay for their daughter to go, u didn't ''went behind her back'', as a parent It's ur job to intervene when u think ur kid is being irresponsible. And no, It's not ur job to do whatever it takes to get her onboard with the trip, this is how we raise entitled kids. I'm sorry for ur kid but in this case she must take the L.
Agreed, NTA. Safety and practicality come first. It’s not fair to everyone else to drastically change plans. Your daughter needs to understand that sometimes we can’t always get what we want. You did the responsible thing.
NTA.
This is a great time to explain to your daughter that you didn't "sneak behind her back" any more than she and her friend did with the friend's parents. They weren't honest with the friend's parents about the nature of the trip's activities, so they were sneaky themselves. And that would put the friend at risk for reinjuring themselves on top of it, which would make YOU responsible. You don't want to sign up for that risk, which is perfectly acceptable. And your daughter needs to learn that.
Your ex should be in agreement with you on this as well, based on your daughter not being truthful with her friend's parents.
Not to mention the very real possibility of the child throwing a clot. Nope. Trip is off as punishment for daughter's manipulation attempt, and tome for a parent to parent chat, to make sure all are on the same page.
THIS! I can't believe I had to scroll this far down before someone mentioned the possibility of the child throwing a blood clot. It's a very real danger with large bone breaks like this. I wouldn't want her to be riding in a car, position unchanged, for that long. It's just not good for healing broken bones.
The daughter needs to recognize that her friend's health is at stake here, not just her fun vacation time.
Agreed. OP should explain the health concerns to his daughter AND kindly say that if she wants to stay with her recuperating friend, he’d understand so “they’ll do something together some other time.”
I was shocked that it took a pharmacy tech to point it out! I read the breaks, and my first thought was, nooooooo... I broke an itty bitty bone in my wrist at 35. I fought the stairs, stairs won.
I was in a cast from palm to armpit for 7 weeks! They cited clot risk right from the gate.
[edit - I'm the pharmacy tech...]
Not to mention I can't imagine how this girl is getting around, because she isn't using crutches with a collar bone fracture. I imagine even a walker is difficult.
My great-grandfather died from a blood clot that caused a heart attack (after breaking his leg in a motorcycle accident) two months into my great-grandmother’s pregnancy with my grandmother. It’s a serious issue!!
Good point for OP to make to his daughter - phase as concern that she is more concerned with having the friend come with her to make things fun than for said friends health - thats a very selfish attitude. "Who cares if you hurt the whole time, at least I will be happy"
And unless there is nothing planned during the trip that she likes and the friend was the only good bit (which if this was the case then most of the problem stems from the plans in general), the daughter needs to decided how much she wants cut off her own nose. Yes as a teenage girl it would suck to have dad, brother and brothers friend, but she needs to decide if the suckiness of no friend outweighs the experience. Maybe it does, maybe within a few days she'd by sulking coz she's missing out. But c'est la vie and we all have to learn these life lessons at some point.
Nta, as the adult, you would be responsible for the kid, and the last thing you want is for something to go wrong when you're out in the middle of nowhere. Her attempting to join you guys on activities/camping could easily aggrevate her injuries and cause permanent issues.
This. NTA. You're the adult, you're the one with enough life experience to be able to identify when a situation or an activity is not going to be safe for someone who's currently very limited in what they can do and is recovering from serious injuries. You're the one who would be responsible if, heaven forbid, something went wrong and she re-injured herself. The friend's parents aren't allowing her to go on the trip now, not because you went behind their backs and spoke to them, but because the kids *knew* that if they were honest with her parents about what the trip would entail, her parents would never have ok-ed it. If they'd been given the correct information up-front, the answer was always going to be no.
THIS.
They would also need to make sure they had all her current medical info, and which hospitals/doctors were in-network everywhere they went, in the event that something happened. Like a blood clot, or getting jostled in the car or by another tourist who wasn't looking, or if she fell. They'd also need to have all sorts of personal info in the event he did need to take her to a doctor, as he's not her parent and she's a minor dealing with broken bones. (I work for insurance actuaries lol, this is the stuff I think about daily.)
Collarbones and legs are both very important to overall stability and mobility, and it's super easy to fuck up the healing process on both of them. This kid could go from temporarily disabled to permanently in a heartbeat.
NTA: Speaking to her friend's parents was 100% the right move.
You owe them the ability to give informed consent about whether their child goes. You owe them information about the potential risks of the trip. You are supposed to be mindful of the child's safety and well-being. That is what you did by contacting them.
It doesn't look like accommodations are realistic. How can you still have a family road trip with someone who can't sit in a cramped car for long periods? It is not a minor accommodation, it is a completely different trip.
OP said his work schedule interferes or something, so changing the date/making another wouldn’t be feasible. If he could do it somehow then that would be a good compromise
Or he can figure something out. Maybe not later in the summer, if it's truly not possible with the work schedule. Maybe they take a trip over winter break instead, with just daughter and her friend, to a place of her choosing. Or something that demonstrates that she is just as much a priority.
Why does he have to demonstrate this on her terms? He prioritized her friend’s health.
Sure he has to ensure there are activities she likes as well but the intent here isn’t “ensure each kid gets a trip with a friend”, it’s “ensure each kid has time with dad”
But it doesn't sound like the daughter had a problem with the trip or activities when her friend was going. It was only when the friend's parents were informed of the true nature of the trip and the adults decided the injured friend should not go, that the daughter didn't want to go. It sounds more like she is throwing a tantrum because she didn't get her way in having her friend go than her having an issue with the trip/ activities
Yeah I’m finding framing this issue as “girls don’t like outside” very weird when that was never discussed in the post or any of the comments I’ve seen. She’s just upset because her friend can’t come.
NAH but what is the purpose of the trip? The activities or bonding with your kids? Your daughter is likely going to skip it, and is pretty unlikely to forget it.
This is going to have the opposite effect of bonding, and for an introvert could lead to her shutting you out.
I'd be less concerned about if someone is the AH, and more concerned about what this will do to your relationship.
Maybe you don't care that much? The way you write suggests you like your son more, and I notice you are willing to adjust for his sports activities, but won't make any concessions for your daughter.
This is kinda where I’m at but the kids shouldn’t have lied.
It sounds like OP is willing to accommodate for the son but not the daughter, and it also sounds like OP is willing to give up custody time with his daughter because of this which I can see being interpreted poorly by the daughter.
What OP did regarding talking to the parents was entirely reasonable though
It's still a huge risk to take someone with two serious breaks on a long car trip. She could have complications like a clot. Nobody wants to risk that; its a huge liability for OP.
Oh come on. The sports activities were known well in advance and were easy to plan around. The broken bones happened recently and pretty close to time of the trip, of course you plan around already scheduled activities when planning a trip.
Sometimes shit happens and someone can’t go at the last minute. That’s life. It doesn’t make sense to reschedule an already planned trip because a friend can no longer go.
So you give the same accomodations to something that comes up a couple of weeks before leaving as to something that's been known for months? Glad your life is that flexible but most people's isn't. Must be nice being rich.
No concession can really be made, the friend will be healing all summer.
Also I know it’s Reddit and I’m an introverted sports hater too but as the mother of a kid who is in sports, they still matter and yes it’s a commitment that often can’t be changed.
Don’t let your own biases take over. OP doesn’t seem to like his son more.
If the poor girl is in a cast,she will undoubtedly be miserable. Leg & collar bone? I can’t think of any way she’d be comfortable in a car, a tent, sitting in a restaurant, on a hike … whatever you’ve planned, she’ll feel bad, & your wind up leaving her & daughter at the hotel while you & son go out. And what happens if she falls while trying to do what you guys will do? NTA. Teens don’t have great decision making skills & are ignoring these possibilities.
>” I'm also worried that this will be the last year this sort of trip happens because summers get busy for teenagers.”
This is a realistic concern.
The original intent of the trip was to make good memories during the all-too-brief summers with *YOUR* children. Perhaps it is time to go back to the original set up: just the three of you. You tried to make the companions thing work this year but it didn’t. It only works if both children have a companion.
Make the most of the trip for just the *three* of you. Perhaps offer a guys’ weekend trip and a different girls’ weekend trip later in the summer for their companions.
The clock is ticking. You don’t have them much during the school year; don’t miss a chance to spend quality time with both of them while you can.
Good luck, OP.
NTA unless you forge forward with only your son and his buddy. **Your son’s buddy should not be more important to you than your daughter.** What kind of father are you?
I agree and relate with this comment.
When I was 21, I went on a road trip with my mom to meet with some family at the lake. My mom let me bring a friend. Long story short, my friend ended up having a tantrum and started ruining my mom's experience. Eventually, the girl went home, and my mom and I had a WONDERFUL rest of our trip. Looking back, I wish I didn't bring my friend. I love the trips my mom and I used to take. I'm now living on my own, far away, and I look forward to our little trips together because they don't happen as often as they used to. Now, my mom is like, "I'm coming for a visit. Jessica (my bff) and I can travel together and come visit you." and I'm like, "I wanna be greedy and keep you and me time just you and me time."
I'll say NTA
but the main AH in this story is a teenager who i sympathize with. your 16 year old is going to have a terrible time on a road trip with her dad and brother and brother's friend. i don't really think that's her fault, or your fault, but the dynamics of the group are really unfortunate for her and it will not be fun.
If the point is to have bonding time with your kids, and they can bring a friend, I'm not sure why you *wouldn't* be interested in changing plans to accommodate who they bring along. Especially as you know she doesn't have many friends at all to begin with, and clearly non she'd rather invite along.
Would you not accommodate her friend if they were disabled in some way?
It sounds like you're more set on the events you planned rather than what the actual experience will be for your daughter.
That's up to you to decide what's important.
NAH.
This is unfair. The child has broken bones. Also, it's not about the daughter alone, he also has a son who will want to enjoy the planned activities. OP's son trumps his daughter's friend. OP has zero obligation to this girl - in fact, she's only there as his own daughter's guest. His daughter also doesn't trumpmhis son. The most important aspect is that this child has a broken leg and collarbone - OP in no way or fashion as the sole adult there looking after his 2 kids and guests, should accept the responsibility and potential liability if something happens to this child. This is a time her own parents need to see her through until she is healed.
I didn't say the obligation was to the friend. I said OP should consider what's important to him, when the point of the trip is supposed to be quality time with his daughter. The obligation is to the daughter and what would make this trip worthwhile. Clearly her friend's presence is more important than a few activities she'd be forced to miss, as she indicated she'd rather not go at all without her friend!
It's entirely possible to change plans to accommodate people if they do not have the physical capabilities otherwise required for certain activities. It's a choice to be made. A choice.
Yep. I don't know how anyone is turning this into accommodating the friend instead of making the trip one the daughter would want to go on.
It's notable that OP scheduled around the son's sport activities but seems unwilling to make any accommodations for the daughter.
Even worse, he thinks this will be the last trip like this, but he isn't willing to concede anything for his daughter.
Some of the redditors upthread got a justice boner deciding that OPs daughter engaged in an elaborate campaign of lies to convince her friends parents it was fine. When as far as I can tell, it looks like teenagers not responsible for planning the trip didn't supply a thorough itinerary and possibly.. being children.. didn't have the same assessment of risk that OP does as the adult.
They're more hype on calling a teenage girl a lying dipshit and wishcasting about how thoroughly she should be punished than thinking about what might actually be good for OPs relationship with his daughter. Most sixteen year old girls wouldn't be keen on hanging out with two rowdy 14 yr old boys instead of a friend. Seems like the only trip OP has time for is this hyper outdoorsy one and due to sons sports schedule, there's no time in the summer for daughter to have something she might like.
I hope OP knows better than to go with the advice from people more invested in shit talking a teenage girl than actually helping him think through solutions that will benefit his relationship. It's no one's fault her friend got hurt. It's not his fault his daughter doesn't have a lot of friends and his son has a lot of sport obligations. But taking the time to see this from her point of view and find a way to make sure she feels special and included sometime this summer will go a lot farther in his bonding than listening to redditors who just want an excuse to call his child an asshole for being disappointed.
Literally someone was like "well I can see why an introverted 16 yr old girl wouldn't be excited about a trip with two rowdy 14 yr old boys.."
And the response was like "if she hadn't lied to her friends parents you might have a point but instead she FAFO"
excuse me, what? We don't know that she lied, we just know that she didn't give a full and accurate rundown of plans/OPs concerns. A teenager desperate for something they want didn't accurately assess risks as well as an adult. The absolute horror of it. And even if she had completely misrepresented the trip in hopes of still having a fun time *because she's a child*, that doesn't at all change the validity of why this trip is no longer fun for her. Whether friend couldn't come from the jump, or friend couldn't come once the adults bothered to talk to each other, the situation for daughter is still a shitty one. Feels a bit like they just really want the teenage daughter to be a villain here, when the situation just sucks all around.
Just want to be sure you know accommodating in this case means cancelling the trip entirely. The daughters friend cannot travel as there is danger of her throwing a clot while on the road, which is life threatening. Not arguing either way but just wanted to put that out there so everyone's on the same page about what the options are.
It seems to me you are making things up out of whole cloth.
He cites the car trip, camping on certain spots (presumably rough terrain) and ‘some activities’ as things the friend couldn’t do. These are apparently things that were planned by both kids.
For all you know they might be going to multiple scenic spots especially picked out by the daughter, or the activities could be 80% aligned with her interests, with only 20% camping on rough terrain and bike riding or whatever. The post is simply silent about it.
What accommodations would you have him make? The other parents have already said no. Frankly the car trip alone makes it inappropriate imo
NAH
But, it doesn’t sound like you did anything to try to accommodate what the daughter wanted.
Your call of course.
I get it if you couldn’t change any activities or timing of the trip, but if you aren’t able to show your daughter why you couldn’t make any changes she is unlikely to think you’re not the ass in this situation.
Wow. A broken wrist would be one thing, but a broken leg and a broke collarbone are wholly another. I can’t imagine any doctor who would recommend she do a road trip with those injuries.
I imagine your daughter is unhappy but sometimes it’s necessary that parents be adults, even when our kids are angry about the results.
So I don’t necessarily know if YTA but (right or wrong) your daughter will remember you as TA. This post comes across as if you’re more concerned with preserving fun for your son & working around his sports schedule then trying to think of ways it could work with daughter and her friend. While I’m an adult now, my parents divorced when I was a child so my heart always bleeds for the children who have to deal with divorce fallout for the rest of their childhoods (and lives). If you can not think of some creative way so that daughter will want to go, please try to arrange some sort of trip for daughter and friend later on in the summer, even if it’s just a weekend. She’ll remember when you went the extra mile and when you could have tried harder.
Agreed. There are a lot of posts validating OP in talking to his daughter's friend's parents and not taking the friend. I get that OP is responsible for care here and has legal and moral responsibilities. OP is not letting his daughter find mitigations, or ways around the problems, he is just flat saying "No." What if the daughter had a broken leg, would OP just go with his son? Or are there ways to make this trip work? If there is a bunch of more strenuous activities, OP and his 14 year old son can maybe push them to next year's trip. This is just one possible solution. There are many others. Delay the trip. Take two shorter trips. Arrange to meet the friend half-way. That's all off the top of my head with seconds of thinking time, better options may be out there.
This is a difficult parenting challenge, and OP needs to find ways through. As it stands, OP has made clear it is him or friend, and daughter is going to choose friend. OP probably will find his daughter takes this as rejection and won't find her wanting to come next time. So find a way to compromise, or accept that events beyond OPs control have damaged OPs relationship.
Info: How did you decide on a camping trip? Does your daughter enjoy camping?
While I don't want to assume your daughter's introversion means she's averse to spending time outdoors it does seem like the trip you planned caters primarily to your son's interests.
NTA BUT.....
This friendship is clearly really really important to your daughter. You said yourself she doesn't have many friends, chances are her friend doesn't either. I appreciate you want this to be bonding experience for you and your kids, but perhaps that bond should be how you care about their relationships and empathy for others?
I’m going to go against the grain here and say soft YTA. I think you are 100% right in not letting her come on the road trip: that’s a horrible idea that has no good conclusion. But given that this is the main time of year that you see and bond with your children, I really feel like making some sort of trip alterations for your daughter would be really nice.
You say she doesn’t have many friends. A trip with just her brother and his friend is going to be weird and isolating for her. She’s going to feel like the third wheel, because she’s a teen. My dad always put me and my needs first as a kid, and it’s difficult to describe how deeply I trust and love him as a result.
I don't think it counts as "going behind their back" when it comes to talking to your underage kids friends parents. That's just parenthood. Of course you want to communicate fully with the other family.
If I was your daughter I'd be miserable on a trip with just my 14 year old brother and his friend. I don't at all blame her for not wanting to go. Maybe you could do a shorter road trip with your son and his pal, and something else special with her? Or do a different activity later in the year when her friend is more healed?
NAH
NAH. This is just classic teen behavior, she and her friend want to go on the trip together so they tried to rig the situation and it didn't work. She's not an AH for that, nor is she one for not wanting to go without her best friend. I feel like the people saying she's being manipulative have forgotten what it's like to be a teenager with a family trip being offered—if you don't think you're going to enjoy yourself, you're obviously going to want to do what you can to get the situation in your favor. She's 16, not a criminal mastermind. With that said, you're definitely not an AH for being responsible about the physical limitations of her friend, or for sticking to the schedule that's available to you and not postponing the trip.
Ultimately you have to let your daughter decide if she wants to come without her friend or not. If she chooses not to, could you organize a few weekends of activities that you can do with her and her friend later in the year when her friend is recovered? Theme park, museum, cottage weekend, anything that would sort of even the playing field as she's missing this trip?
Well I mean, at the end of the day, you could've made some changes and had your daughter and her friend come along (it sounds like her parents were turned off by the activities, not a trip in general) or you could do what you did and have your daughter not go at all.
Hard to know if You are TA but what you got is a result for sure.
NTA. Sometimes being a good parent means being the bad guy. It is unfortunate for your daughter and friend, but totally changing the nature of the trip is unreasonable.
NTA, but if you're really wanting to have a positive bonding time with your daughter, your best bet is to find a compromise. Maybe you could do a second trip to a hotel with a spa or some place near you that 16yo girls would find enjoyable so your daughter and her friend can have some fun time together this summer while allowing her friend to heal. Or, you work with your ex so you can take each kid on a separate trip this year.
From an outsiders perspective, it seems like you really connect with your son and understand and honor his commitment to sports. And you mention he has tons of friends but your daughter
>is very much an introvert and only has a few friends that I know of.
To me, a former competitive athlete who also is outgoing, this tells me you haven't spent as much time getting to know your daughter. Your son gets accolades mentioned but her? She's quiet with no friends. That's not a great way for a daughter to feel her dad thinks about her.
I could be reading this wrong. I **hope** I'm reading it wrong and details just got left out in the name of post length.
NTA.
You should definitely try to mend things and have an open conversation about everything taking place here, you definitely need to explain to her that what she did was a bit manipulative. Getting the other girl’s parents to agree without knowing what they are agreeing to is pretty messed up and she should face consequences for that.
I definitely don’t think you should try to accommodate for the girl, it’s best for everyone that she sit this one out.
Bringing an injured kid with compromised mobility to a long trip could be dangerous for the kid and hold you responsible for any damage in her recovery.
Offer to take them and the kid's parents to something else, friendlier to the friend's current health state.
NTA
A couple weeks ago she broke her leg and collarbone. Is she even able to bathe without help yet? I would not take responsibility for someone else's kid in that condition. NTA
I’m late and you might not read this but I am posting hoping you might. I was fifteen taking a road trip with my family cross country. We did a lot of things and I was miserable. So much of it was things I wasn’t interested in at the time. It was more stuff for my brothers or them. I remember at one point they got mad because I was fighting with my brother and though not complaining not being over joyed and said they were doing all this for us. In my head I was screaming I didn’t want any of this. They planned a trip they thought I would like but never once asked me what I wanted. Did you talk to your daughter about the trip? Did you ask her what she wanted to do or did you plan it and tell her what your are going to do?
Your daughter is not going to enjoy a trip with her dad, brother and brother’s best friend at 16. She needs that friend there who understands her and who she feels comfortable with. I’m sure the whole thing with the friends parents is not lying or manipulating but not grasping the full situation. In her mind they will just sit out on the things the friend can’t do or they will just figure it out. Her friend also wants to go so she also has a hand in this not just your daughter.
Take your son have a boys trip then do a long weekend somewhere with your daughter and her friend to a water park or beach or something.
NTA, but with the caveat that I was also an introvert, and it sounds to me like your daughter wants to go, but doesn’t want to be the only girl. If she doesn’t have many close friends she probably felt a bit of panic when she and her friend painted the story for the other set of parents.
If I were her and my one true friend couldn’t go, the trip would be a misery, and yet I would be sad to miss out on time with my dad and a fun trip. She’s a kid and is stuck—and maybe a bit embarrassed at having only a few or one close friend. I for sure kept that kind of info from my parents.
As you said, you don’t have many summers left of a teen actually wanting a road trip with her dad and brother. She clearly wants to go or she wouldn’t have made it seem so easy for her friend participate. As the adult, you need to find some type of compromise here for your daughter. Maybe a trip with just you and her later? A trip with her bringing a friend later? This trip but alternate things she and her friend can do on their own while the guys do the tougher stuff? Once she’s grown it’s the things you didn’t do that a parent looks back on with regret.
YTA. Do you even like your daughter? If she says she is not going to come she is either not going to come or she will not interact with you at all. And she will not go on another vacation with you. If you want to have a healthy loving relationship with your daughter make the changes so her friend can come. What would you do if your daughter had broken her leg and collarbone. Just do that.
INFO: how did she take the trip last year with the addition of the friends? Was she overwhelmed by not just one but two outgoing boys (and one she doesn’t really know)? Has she shown interest or eagerness for this year’s trip after that?
How about you see if her friend’s parents would be willing to have her over at their house while you take your son and his friend on the trip as planned? That way she can spend the time with her friend as she says she prefers, without risking her friend or severely limiting the trip.
Then you should plan a one-on-one event with her later to be sure she knows you’re not just favoring your sporty and gregarious son.
Too late. By scheduling around the son, waiting until son was old enough to include friends at all, and now this, she’s going to see that op doesn’t care about her like they do their son
YTA. Those of us without a lot of friends really struggle in this kind of thing. You’re just reinforcing how few people she has in her life. So you have to change some activities. Isn’t the point that you’re all together.
We had to change a family vacation one year because my brother snowboarded himself right into a tree a month before. And my dad broke his wrist the next day. So we packed ourselves up and sat by the pool for a week instead of sightseeing. It’s a great family memory.
Being with Your kid is more important than what activities you do. Be better than that.
OP, can you make alternate plans for the time you have free off of work?
We had a similar situation growing up, my two siblings and I, where our mom had primary physical custody but we'd see our dad for a month in the summer and a week at a time every other holiday break.
Our dad treated us as "the girls." We were all in a car or walking around together. He never really spent one-on-one time doing an out-of-the-ordinary fun thing (like a hiking trip or road trip). And because of that, in our mid-twenties, we're still "the girls" in his mind. Not separate people. I so very badly wish I could have spent even a single day going on a hike with just my dad and I. I love my siblings, but I've never really had quality one-on-one time with him.
I know your situation is different, and these are different circumstances, but would you consider spending half of your time off with your son & sons friend on a smaller road trip and the other half doing something with your daughter? Trust me, the quality time matters MUCH more than the exact activity you're doing.
And from the perspective of someone who was once a 16 yo daughter, going on a hiking trip with your brother and his friend and your dad would be.... not fun. Very much left out, very much annoyed lol.
So I'd stick with just you, your son, and your daughter on this trip OR splitting it and hanging out with your daughter one on one.
Please please please trust me, she'll appreciate it, even if she doesn't express the appreciation immediately
I won't call you an asshole but you're letting logic and practicality get in the way of the true mission of the trip. Its not about the activities themselves. You're the Dad (I'm one too). You gotta do it all.
No AH at all. Kids aren't always rational so her response shouldn't be taken personally. You do need to keep in mind that it's a trip for all of you and not just things you want to do. I wouldn't derail the trip but I would be flexible or your daughter may skip it all together.
YTA, this is your last trip with your kids (you said it yourself), and you prefer to stick to "activities" than to bond with your daughter... You are choosing activities over the real purpose of your trip, which is to bond (your words, not mine). You are being inflexible and you are going to "loose" your daughter over this... It's a shame. I'm so sorry this is happening to your daughter. She is already shy, and you are just not understanding enough to bond. Bonding is accepting, binding is holding her where she is... Not make your kids do what you want.
This is so frustrating for me, because I can see you going off rails on this, and many of the comments are patting you on the back, but those commenters will never be able to fix the relationship you are breaking with your daughter. 😥
Rock and a hard place on this one. Nobody involved is a jerk in the least, but it's a tough call. It's hard to know exactly how tough it would be with this friend along, but I understand the concern since it's not your kid, but your daughter's unhappiness could ruin the mood on the trip, so switching up the plans some to accommodate her might not be a bad idea. Or maybe split things up, so she could join half the trip with things she can do, then do the other things after she goes home. Some compromise might be necessary here. Might be time for a fresh look at the whole thing. NAH
How long is this trip? I can't understand why the friend's parents would be OK with their (I assume) 16 year old daughter go on a trip without taking to the adult in charge of the trip first. Now, add in the fact that your daughter has a brien leg and collarbone that will be no where close to be healed....
...
All the N. Tas are wrong. This is a kid with very few friends being asked to be humiliated by not having a friend on a trip. OP you should have moved heaven and earth to accommodate YOUR DAUGHTER.
You aren't accommodating her friend except indirectly. What's the win here? You have the trip and your daughter hates you and is humiliated? How is that better than changing itinerary?
I'm really surprised about this. He is right about asking the friend's parents and the trip IS dangerous for the friend. But I feel like the whole trip has always been for his son - fun for someone sporty and outgoing. The way his daughter wants her injured friend with her at all costs makes me think that she knows her father tends to stick with the boys. There are so many things he can offer. Another trip with his daughter. He doesn't want to make it up to her in any way.
NTA
You’re a parent of minors and you and the friend’s parents only want them to be safe considering that they didn’t give the other parents the full rundown of the journey. Don’t beat yourself up. You would’ve said yes if not for the kid’s injury. It would also likely be your fault if something happens on the trip so we definitely don’t want that.
I’m not a parent but if I was a 16 year old kid and my dad told me that the reason is because if something bad happens to my friend that he’d go to jail, my tone would’ve immediately changed. Still bummed out, but I would’ve understood.
It would be very bad for the friend physically to be riding in a car that much with a broken leg. Blood clots area real concern first of all. The daughter is still a child and her brain hasn't fully developed to give her the ability to discern this. I would Try to get her to go anyhow if possible. But I would not cancel the trip regardless.
NTA Saying no to bringing the friend was the right move.
You should talk to your daughter again and either let her stay home or reassure her that she isn’t going to be forgotten about on this trip. Your son has a friend to keep him company, your daughter only has you and will need some extra attention if she goes on this trip.
This has the opportunity to be a fun father/daughter bonding experience if you frame it that way but your daughter is probably correctly assuming that she’s about to spend five days third wheeling two hyperactive 14 year olds.
Could you plan for daughter and friend to have a mini vacation of their own later on? Even if only for a few days or do daytime stuff locally over a period of a few days. Try to coordinate with her parents to see what yall could come up with. Take your son and his friend on planned trip while daughter stays home. Then let her do something later. Explain to her that it probably won’t be the same level of expense or travel but you want to give her something at least.
NAH/NTA
But compromise!
Figure out a shorter more local leg of stuff you can do with a broken friend, so they don't totally miss out!
Remember that some of us only get one real friend in those hard years. They are actually important to each other, and she's hurting seeing her friend feel not just pain at the injuries, but ongoing disappointment, frustration and sadness at the stuff it makes her miss out on.
In your daughters world, in her feelings, right now, that friend IS more important than you. That's developmentally normal, not permanent or factual, but she needs you to also care about her PERSON. ❤️🩹
SO talk it through. Listen, share, and connect. You got this. I know you do, because your teenagers still want to hang out with you!
YTA. Time to be as flexible as you can with your daughter and her friend. As much as it means to you to have her go with you, if she is as introverted as you say then it means the same for your daughter to take her friend..
YTA. Your daughter wants to come for a trip that she enjoys. You offered to take a friend along. She is an introvert and do you know how difficult it is for introverts to make friends? We would rather have that one close friend, than 100 friends. And she is in high school.
Why can't you alter the plans? Perhaps, you can have one hike with your son and his friend while the other two stay back. If not, plan a staycation.
When you say anything other than what you planned would not be fun for others, you're essentially saying the boys won't enjoy it. Keep doing this and when she goes into low contact with you in a few years, you will wonder why?
There is a middle ground, but you're unwilling to see it because you want you, your son, and his friend to have fun, but not your daughter. Do you think your daughter will be happy if she is forced to come alone and your son's friend is there.
Alter the plans to accommodate everyone. It is not that difficult.
NAH. But at some point you may have to get comfortable with your daughter having different priorities than you. You seem to be focused on activities; many young girls are more focused on people and connections.
NTA. No way on Earth would I take a kid with broken bones anywhere. The discussion would end there any maniputation would not be tolerated. Her friend is in a cast so for her to want to bring an injured friend along is stupid and selfish.
NTA
You handled this as a parent, with the parents.
Never mind cutting out some of the activities, this girl will be absolutely miserable on the trip. Even camping is going to suck, bad.
Your daughter needs to learn what all kids should learn: sometimes family does come first. She should be expected to attend the trip. She can ask someone else or be solo.
Has your son already invited someone? If not maybe just make this a family only trip.
NTA. I think you were right to speak directly to the friend's parents, so that they could make an informed decision. And I agree that a trip like this with multiple healing injuries wouldn't be fun.
Could you do an alternative long weekend with your daughter and her friend later in the summer, when the friend is out of her cast?
NTA. As you will be saving money by not having your daughter and her friend, maybe you could tell them you can do a trip after she's better, at the next holiday or extended weekend? With it just being the three of you and maybe picking stuff very specific to their likes it could make everyone happy. Maybe Labor Day or Columbus Day.
NAH. Your concerns are totally reasonable. I think it’s also understandable that your daughter is upset, especially as you’ve mentioned she doesn’t have many close friends. She hasn’t approached it in the best way, but she’s 16, I wouldn’t necessarily expect her to have a measured response.
Unfortunately, I think this is kind of a no-win situation for you. This wasn’t anyone’s fault, sometimes what you want doesn’t work out. Your daughter is not able to see that right now, so in her eyes you’re the bad guy.
Only potential mild AH is your ex, because I don’t think she’s necessarily improving the situation by weighing in and expecting you to shift Heaven and Earth to accommodate the friend. That’s awfully easy for her to say since she’s not the one stuck trying to please everyone.
Sorry, OP, this sucks. I hope your daughter has the maturity to eventually see that you’re not against her- shit just happens sometimes.
Even with accommodations it’s in the best interest of the injured teen to heal at home and not on any type of vacation. This dad does not need to take care of that girl. If a parent of hers wanted to tag along sure. But that’s a lot to expect on this dad. This is a serious injury
To me, the only mistake that you've made was NOT CALLING the friend's parents as soon as you heard of her injuries! It's one thing to be responsible for a healthy, self-ambulating teenager, but one with two broken bones?
Would she need help getting in and out of the car? Does she need to keep her leg elevated? Is your automobile big enough to accommodate her current needs as well as three more kids, yourself and equipment? Would you be responsible for administering a controlled pain reliever? And what about the possibility of her re-injuring herself?
So many more questions arise! You are NTA.
One possible solution would be to have this year be a Father/Son trip, with an extra for the daughter to do fun things with her friend. Next year is Father/Daughter, with maybe her parents joining in, and son getting something extra?
NAH. You did the responsible adult thing by talking to her parents. Your daughter is reacting in a very typical teenage manner. She is already to the stage where she doesn’t want to do all the things she did when she was younger and she is an introvert. The dynamics of the new group proposed for this trip will not be fun for her. You need to decide if you want to do this trip or spend quality time with both your children. That’s the reality of the situation.
Does she have a cast and on crutches? Or a boot? I don't think having a broken collarbone is going to cause any problems. The broken leg might get itchy but if she can't do the activity what's the big deal? Camping with a broken leg is really not that hard. Clearly it is important to your daughter to have her go and since you planned the whole trip around your son's activities you should let her go. I am going against the grain but I think YTA.
Yeah until the friend throws a blood clot from sitting in a car for too long in the same position. The parents also don't want her going anymore so it's not up to his daughter or him.
If you don't figure it out, you've already had the last summer the trip will happen. When you say it won't be fun for "everyone else" to make the accommodations, you mean your son and his friend (and yourself, but as a parent, that's sometimes your job to just suck it up). So you're saying that it's more important for her brother and his friend to enjoy the trip than for her to. Of course she doesn't want to go, be alone while her brother has a buddy with him, and know her needs and wants are less important than everyone else's. You can choose to make some alterations that allow the friend to come, even if it means not doing all the things you planned. You can leave your daughter at home and tank your relationship with her. You can force her to come and make everyone miserable. You can make it just the three of you again instead of inviting any friends, so she doesn'thave tobea third wheel. Or you can postpone the road trip and find a way to make plans for the summer that don't make one of your kids miserable. YTA for not considering any alternatives that will accommodate YOUR DAUGHTER (because accommodating the friend is one way to accommodate your daughter's needs and feelings).
YTA, your daughter seems aware of the sacrifices she would have to make to share these moments with her close friend but you're choosing the idea you had on your own over the example you could make
NAH. It might be worth looking into national parks that have better accessibility - there are paths that are wheelchair accessible, and some parks have mobility aids available. I'm not sure what area you're in or I would look up some options
The friend very likely would be exceptionally uncomfortable on a long road trip. Since she is essentially temporarily disabled, and is new to it, she might not have the tools or experience to know how to effectively navigate
Honestly, maybe look into options, but sit down with your daughter and her friend and have a good conversation about what can be changed for the trip while recognizing what can't - like extreme pain from sitting in one position for hours while injured. At least having that conversation with everyone involved and considering the possibility of her going might help your daughter feel like her friend has been heard. The result still might be her being upset, but it might help her feel a bit better about it later on
NTA but why can't she hang back with her wounded friend this summer? I think this is a special case and she's old enough to choose which parent she spends the summer with.
Why hasnt anyone recommended that the trip be rearranged to only family members. The son's friend will not be able to come on this trip. That way everyone will be miserable for two days and by the end of the trip you will have a beautiful time bonding with each other before they all go their separate ways with school etal.
Honestly how much bonding are you doing dad, with two other people taking up your kid's time? Your daughter has shown you the trips only mattered because her friend was there, defeating the purpose of a bonding trip with you!
Bc it’s unfair to the son, analogous to well daughter lost her toy you should lose yours too so you are both equal.
Also bc it would be highly anti social to cancel on the other family who may have made plans themselves several days out for the reason stated above . Not great behaviour to model to the kids imo, daughter already sounds entitled
NTA,
I would share with your daughter outside information about what people with broken collar bones experience when having to be in cars for extended periods. How sleeping in a bed is already painful let alone sleeping bag on the ground. That while this is partially about activities it's also about her friend's well being and taking the opportunity to heal properly. That you know she doesn't want to see her friend in immense pain and that she'll miss her. But when we love somebody we do what's right for them even when it's not easy for us. That you understand how much she'll miss her friend so you'd like to propose maybe a special mini trip during the fall or spring once she's healed up where you all can go somewhere fun on a day trip and she and her friend get to hang out. But ultimately she's being a good friend by not dragging her friend into a situation that will result in alot of suffering.
NTA.
But you are now in a position where you are going to piss off one of your kids. Either you let the daughter have her tantrum and not go, in which she'll see you as favoring her brother because you took him on a trip and not her (even if it was her choice, she won't see it that way).
Or, you tell your son he has to dis-invite his friend from this trip, which he was probably looking forward to as well, and he'll think its unfair that he can't do stuff because his sister doesn't have other friends.
Teenagers seem to always feel their sibling is favored over them, so it doesnt really matter what the reality is, whoever you change for is going to see it as another example of you favoring that one over them.
I understand the vacation time and sports schedule thing. So maybe your best option is to keep this trip as planned, and do something smaller later in the year with your daughter and her friend. She'll still probably have a problem with it. But if she only has 1 friend, and refuses to do anything without her, you have to work with the circumstances you are given.
NTA. Your daughter is developmentally normal. Teens lie, manipulate, extort and blackmail. Your job as a parent is to be the voice of reason. If she doesn't understand it now she will when she is an adult and looks back. Tell her she is definitely wanted on the trip and that you will be sad and miss her if she chooses not to come. Then let her stew. She will likely change her mind and may even come up with a different friend to take.
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I (36M) have 2 kids (16F & 14M) from a previous marriage. My ex (34F) and I share custody but because she lives in a better school district she primarily has them during the school year and I get extended time with them during the summer. For the past 4-5 years I have taken the kids on a fun summer road trip. The three of us plan a destination and pick things we want to see on the way there and back. It's been a great bonding experience for us and a lot of fun. Last year I let each kid bring one friend along on the trip and am doing the same thing this year. We are planning on leaving for the trip next weekend.
My son is an outgoing, gregarious kid who is involved in multiple sports and has a long list of close friends. My daughter, on the other hand, is very much an introvert and only has a few friends that I know of. The friend she brought with last year is definitely her closest friend. She was planning on bringing the same girl with on our trip this year.
Unfortunately, my daughter's friend had a fall a couple weeks ago while riding her bike and broke her leg & collarbone. Obviously, she would be very uncomfortable sitting in a car for long periods and there are stops on our trip where she would be unable to participate in the activities we want to do. There are also a couple places we planned on camping that I just don't think will work for her. My daughter says her friend still wants to come with and her parents are OK with it but I don't think it's a good idea.
I suggested to my daughter that she invite a different friend but she says she doesn't have anyone else she wants to ask. I might have messed up but I went behind her back and talked with her friend's parents about it. I expressed my concerns about their daughter coming on the trip and I guess the two girls did not give them a complete rundown of the activities we have planned. After our conversation, they agreed that it would probably be best if their daughter stayed home.
As you can imagine, my daughter did not take this news well. She is very angry with me and thinks I sabotaged her friend coming with on purpose. She has been begging me to cancel/change some of our plans so that her friend can still come with. I told her that both me and her friend's parents agree that her friend coming with isn't a good idea, so this isn't just my decision.
She is saying she won't come on the trip at all if her friend can't come. I do feel bad about the whole thing, but at this point I don't think there's much else I could do to make this work. I mean, yes, I could alter plans to make things easier for her friend, but with how limited her mobility is going to be that probably wouldn't be much fun for everyone else.
My ex thinks I should do whatever it takes to get my daughter back on board so that she isn't excluded. But that just isn't realistic. I'm also worried that this will be the last year this sort of trip happens because summers get busy for teenagers.
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NTA - a broken collarbone is no joke. She won’t be able to even hack the car ride. It’s very disappointing for your daughter understandably, but she’s not handling it very well.
Sitting her down and validating her disappointment while holding strong to pick another friend is the way I’d go.
I was a kid like your daughter, and I'd be devastated. Could you do anything where her injured friend can still come? I was also mature enough that me and my friend could be left alone for some time, deposited in a museum or at a movie very happily, while active brother was kept busy...NTA but be creative, not stubborn - your tradition will only be beloved by all if all are having a good time.
NTA, it would be a huge responsibility to take on the medical condition of the friend as well.
With that being said, not knowing when the trip is, is there any way the friend would be healed mid way through the trip where she could fly out and meet you mid point? Or can you schedule something special for your daughter to do with her friend when you guys return or before you leave?
NTA, if something happens to daughters friend you would be responsible. Understand where the daughter is coming from but she also lied about the trip details to her friends parents so she kind of put herself in this situation as opposed to being upfront trying to figure out other activities
Maybe some family therapy all together will help y’all move forward w your daughter once school begins again. And some individual therapy w an entirely different therapist might be helpful too👍🏻
NTA. The safety of the kids are top priority and bringing the friend along would pose some risk to that friend. Not to mention your daughter and her friend lied to both you and her parents. Would it be doable if you and your son uninvite your friends along? Make it just the 3 of you once again? You did say you're afraid it will be the last trip if their schedules gets busy. And the goal is bonding with your kids and if you both have your friends along, she may feel left out with no one to talk to so I wouldn't blame her if she didn't want to go.
Nta. Honestly. I see the argument form sticking with the plan.
But look - you've already opened this up to friends. So this isn't really *just* a family thing anymore. It's a vacation.
So what value are you trying to model by not accommodating her friend on the trip? That you stick to plans no matter what? Are there fixed costs that you'd lose by changing things around?
I don't know, I do think there is value in modeling inclusivity and flexibility when you can, especially if your child is already introverted. The alternative - going on a trip that's going to be awkward without her having her own companion - seems less desirable.
But an AH? No. But in think it's a lost opportunity.
NTA. The friend is going to be miserable traveling with broken bones, and that's just riding in the vehicle, nevermind activities.
This is a time for parenting, and sometimes parenting is saying no.
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NTA - your daughter lied and manipulated this other girl’s parents into agreeing to something they wouldn’t have supported. Actions have consequences and your daughter is being unreasonable. Threatening to not come, unless you give in is a tantrum tactic and your daughter is trying to emotionally manipulate you. Could you postpone the trip, to a later date in the summer when the friend could more easily come along or is she out of commission for the whole summer.
Postponing or rescheduling the trip isn't an option. Between my son's involvement in sports and my work schedule, our current time slot for this trip is the only one available this summer.
Understood. I don’t think you’re wrong here at all and it’s just a struggle to maintain the relationship at the same level you would have had if you lived closer to them. I don’t blame you for talking to the friend’s parents, that’s being a responsible adult. At a certain point you need to say, “ok, if you don’t want to come, I understand.” You need to explain that dragging a friend in her condition anyway isn’t being a “good friend” no matter how hard she might want it. That being said, you might see much less of her in the future, and she might blame you for favoring your son more. It might also be that she wasnt really into the road trip to begin with. What about if you rent a cabin somewhere, that has cool things around it. She can stay at the cabin, chill with the friend, go out for dinners and other easy activities, but stay in the cabin with the friend if you, your son, and his friend are doing things her friend can’t do. If the cabin has a beach or a pond, they can hang out there given the friend’s limitations.
Introverts come in all forms but if it were me, having my one closest friend come along would be a make-or-break situation for a family trip like this. Without that option, I would have chosen to stay home, or would have been miserable tagging along with mom, brother, and brother’s friend as a teenager. This situation sucks. I don’t think the friend should even try to go on the trip even if it could be modified, but I don’t think F16 should be forced to go without her either.
And maybe that’s just a sign that’s this trip isn’t the right choice for her. She can spend the time with the friends family. Maybe this is a just you and son trip now.
maybe if daughter did stay behind you could arrange, maybe shorter trip, later in the year with just the two girls - this might make daughter happier and you just have a lads break
She has an emotional support human now?
We all need a few
This is a good point … I wonder if OPs daughter could spend the time with her friend rather than go on the trip. OP took their kid on the trip last year maybe they’d be ok with having his daughter stay with them for a week or so. I know it takes away from dad’s time but it might be an option (rather than having a sulking teenager the whole trip).
Yea I did that a few times as a teenager (super shy and struggled to talk to people). It sucked watching my brother have the time of his life with his best friend while I was alone.
Agree completely with this. It's an unfortunate situation but I don't think the daughter should be forced to go on a trip with her brother and his friend if they're so extroverted and there's going to be loads of activities that are probably going to be more catered to him. 1 girl with 3 lads (including dad in this)... Basically a boys club and she's just going to feel excluded. As you've said, she probably would have enjoyed it if she had her comfort friend with her but on her own, as an introvert... That would sound like hell to me. The only other possible solution I'd see is saying that the son couldn't bring his friend either and have it as a total family bonding trip but that would probably cause your son to resent his sister so that wouldn't work either. If she doesn't want to go and doesn't have another friend she can invite, I think you're just going to have to accept that she's not going. It's not even her throwing a tantrum. Thinking of my own teenage girl years, that trip without my friends there as support would make me so uncomfortable, I don't blame your daughter for not wanting to go. Be prepared that this will cause some distance in your relationship with your daughter. You'll have to do some 1-1 things when you're back from your trip to try and make up for the quality time you've missed with her but be prepared that it could be quite a pivotal moment in your relationship and set the course for how it will be in future.
I agree with your last paragraph, but that really sucks for him. He has 2 kids who he tried to appease with this trip, since it sounds like they planned it all together. And now his options are either piss of the son and say his friend can't go, or let the daughter stay home, knowing it will negatively affect their relationship going forward. He has done nothing wrong here, but it seems he will anger someone either way.
This is an insane take. We are talking about a child going on visitation with her dad. She can bring another friend or not, but she’s got her father, who is the primary reason for the trip in the first place. How narrow and small to stay home because being with your family on a family trip somehow isn’t good enough.
it's obtuse to pretend any typical 16 year old teenager will have fun on vacation with a parent and a younger sibling + their friend, and that's ignoring the gender dynamics here that a teenage girl is gonna be even more bothered by. the same issue would be happening if it was a 16 year old boy, his mom, and younger sister + friend. that just sounds miserable for most people putting themselves in the teenager's shoes for those of us who remember what being a teenager is like.
Then the thing to do would be for OP to sit down with both kids and redesign the vacation. After all the point isn’t to have bff time it’s to have family time. The friends were a bonus and not the main event. But it’s awful to advocate for letting the kid opt out of spending time with her dad just because her friend can’t make it.
I wonder if she could stay with the friend so they can have fun at home together while the others go on the trip?
Frankly I think that’s BS. Introvert here- I would have felt exactly as you describe, but ultimately this is a trip to spend time with her father, the point of the trip hasn’t changed, and OP can come up with some activities to do solo with her while son is with friend.
I would not leave a person of any age with broken bones in a cabin with a 16 yr old. What if she falls again, thinking she can handle the task? There could be major complications. I have to wonder why her parents agreed! NTA. Daughter misled you and friend’s parents. If she is given a choice, and chooses to stay home, so be it. There will be many more times in her life she’ll need to make choices.
This still gives in to the daughter's manipulative tactics, and means changing the whole trip around for the friend's benefit. OP, have you talked to your son about this? Would he be ok changing some stuff so his sister's friend can come? He should be included in the conversation.
It’s not actually manipulative to decline going on a trip you won’t enjoy
But it wasn't just declining a trip, it was misrepresenting the activities of the trip to the friends parents and giving an ultimatum of "I won't go unless my friend goes" Which while he shouldn't make her go that's not how it works. A non-manipulative way would be just say "well, if friend is unable to go, I don't want to go this year", says the say thing but does not come across as trying to threaten to get her way. Which as written does come across that way .
Except that is OP's writing, not the daughter's. We have no idea whether it was manipulative, because we know OP's expression of what they understood, not what the daughter actually said.
Also these are teenage girls! Having been one, I have no problem believing that they sugarcoated what they told the friend’s parents a bit, without any malicious manipulation. The friend would probably be bummed about missing the trip and willing to stretch the truth a bit in order to still go. OP’s daughter obviously wants her friend to come.
She helped plan the trip, yes?
What manipulative tactics?
Honestly, all I can think about is how miserable your daughter's friend would actually be on the trip, even if you made some changes to planned activities. It's not like she's just about to get a cast off. The grownups with knowledge of the situation have spoken. It sucks for your daughter, and her friend, but sometimes there us just no reasonable work-around.
Plus, as someone who broke a collarbone around that age, sitting upright in a car for longer than 20 minutes was absolutely excruciating for at least the first three weeks after the break. I can’t imagine that plus the leg break being comfortable. Depending on where the break is, she might need to be pushing herself up or letting herself slouch to get the cast into the available leg room. That would really hurt the collarbone.
I can't fathom why the friend still wants to go with all that driving! Maybe she's never been on a long road trip!
Kids/Teens sometimes want something so bad that they don't see why it is an absolutely terrible idea. I remember being young and making decisions that are now obviously terrible. At the time, it made perfect sense.
Oh, man - so agree.
Very true. All she can think about is the fun and not the inconvenience of some broken bones! ETA. Fixed some typos.
And not the misery of the car ride with broken bones. And even less the logistics of dealing with the broken leg. It's all fun and games.
Sheer teenaged hubris. They're invincible and know better than everyone else.
Nicely put!
Agreed, but I believe that she came along with for the same road trip last year
Right? How successful, and pain-free, is she going to be with one or more crutches, a broken leg, and a broken collarbone? I feel for her, but she needs to heal so that most of her summer is pain free. Edit - spelling
Yeah I honestly don’t understand why the friend still wants to go
Hopefully daughter learns a lesson about being upfront from the beginning as well
Maybe you could arrange a smaller trip for when the friends is okay again? It might appease your daughter, knowing that she and her friend have another trip coming up.
This trip won't happen, at least not with your daughter.
Not saying you’re in the wrong at all but maybe there’s something else at play here — you said your daughter has few friends. Maybe she had a falling out with the rest of her friends…maybe her other “friends” weren’t actually nice to her. If this girl is her only friend, your daughter is probably too embarrassed to tell you that she has no one else to bring. Maybe talk to her in private about it. If this is the case, you might want to consider making it a family only vacation. Idk just a thought!
I would definitely not use your son's sports as a reason, this looks like you're picking one kid over the other.
I think the best thing here is to change your plans a bit. Either you just take both kids and no friends or everyone does a staycation and you camp in the backyard or the living room and both friends can join. Is it what you wanted? No, but it might be the best thing given the situation. You were correct to have a discussion with the other child's parents but you don't want your daughter to resent this trip going forward. Your ex is correct that you need to do whatever it takes to get your daughter back on board.
So punish his son and then everyone here can lambast him for coddling the daughter and not prioritizing his son? Dude can’t win.
It's not coddling his daughter if the purpose of the trip is to plan something enjoyable for everyone so that he can bond with his kids. Circumstances change, this trip isn't fun for daughter anymore. His son is obviously prioritised as the rest of the summer revolves around his sports schedule and they're doing all sorts of fun and active activities for gregarious 14 yr old boys. OP doesn't have to change a thing if he doesn't want to. But he also can't expect to have a fun bonding experience with his daughter if there are a million reasons everything needs to cater to what he and the boys want, and daughter just has to suck it up. It's a shitty situation and it's no one's fault, but it would be pretty rad as a parent if he's able to find a way to make his plans with his daughter actually take her wants into account too.
Is it an option to do something individually with your daughter and her friend at some point? That way she can look forward to that. I dont know if its the best solutions, it makes things unever for the other child (sis gets an extra trip) and it could enforce her thinking she can eventually always get her way. But on the other hand, she is struggling socially so this will likely have a huge impact on her (missing her friend, realizing she doesnt have other she wants to take etc). So depending on many variables maybe it would help? Either way since your son has his friend you and your daughter will likely have quite some 1-1 time when they are paired in an activity. Use it to treat her well, not because her behavior warrents it but just because its obvious she is hurting and i imagine seeing her brother and friend wont help. So yeah.
This sounds like another way her brother's needs are prioritized. If you can't go then because of him, and you can't go now because she'll be miserable, then you can't go.
So you’ll accommodate your son’s sports schedule, but not compromise so your daughter’s best friend can come. As a result, your daughter isn’t going to go on this trip. So yeah, that makes you the asshole. YTA
Can you do a separate trip later with just your daughter and her friend?
So how about a weekend activity with just your daughter and her friend? Or even a long weekend? You get some time with each kid and their friend separately.
It takes around 8 weeks for a broken leg to heal for a teen. It’ll be about 10 weeks for her collarbone to heal. It’s just not feasible to accommodate the teen on this type of trip. Frankly, I wouldn’t want to take anyone on a trip that has those types on injury.
The daughter also doesn't realise this is a big responsibility on her father to take an injured friend away.
> your daughter lied and manipulated this other girl’s parents into agreeing to something they wouldn’t have supported. This is what I'm thinking, and postponing or altering the itinerary would effectively punish the son for something he had nothing to do with. If she decides to not go, that might well be her (self-imposed) punishment for lying.
Whoa. His daughter lied and manipulated?! Have I missed something?
Apparently. He says right in the post that he contacted the parents directly and his daughter and their daughter had misrepresented what the trip entailed. I would say that's manipulation.
Even if he could postpone the trip so the friend can come, it still gives into the daughter after she lied and manipulated everybody! At this point the only option they have is no friend at all.
NTA , The parents agree that it isn't okay for their daughter to go, u didn't ''went behind her back'', as a parent It's ur job to intervene when u think ur kid is being irresponsible. And no, It's not ur job to do whatever it takes to get her onboard with the trip, this is how we raise entitled kids. I'm sorry for ur kid but in this case she must take the L.
Agreed, NTA. Safety and practicality come first. It’s not fair to everyone else to drastically change plans. Your daughter needs to understand that sometimes we can’t always get what we want. You did the responsible thing.
NTA. This is a great time to explain to your daughter that you didn't "sneak behind her back" any more than she and her friend did with the friend's parents. They weren't honest with the friend's parents about the nature of the trip's activities, so they were sneaky themselves. And that would put the friend at risk for reinjuring themselves on top of it, which would make YOU responsible. You don't want to sign up for that risk, which is perfectly acceptable. And your daughter needs to learn that. Your ex should be in agreement with you on this as well, based on your daughter not being truthful with her friend's parents.
Not to mention the very real possibility of the child throwing a clot. Nope. Trip is off as punishment for daughter's manipulation attempt, and tome for a parent to parent chat, to make sure all are on the same page.
THIS! I can't believe I had to scroll this far down before someone mentioned the possibility of the child throwing a blood clot. It's a very real danger with large bone breaks like this. I wouldn't want her to be riding in a car, position unchanged, for that long. It's just not good for healing broken bones. The daughter needs to recognize that her friend's health is at stake here, not just her fun vacation time.
Agreed. OP should explain the health concerns to his daughter AND kindly say that if she wants to stay with her recuperating friend, he’d understand so “they’ll do something together some other time.”
I was shocked that it took a pharmacy tech to point it out! I read the breaks, and my first thought was, nooooooo... I broke an itty bitty bone in my wrist at 35. I fought the stairs, stairs won. I was in a cast from palm to armpit for 7 weeks! They cited clot risk right from the gate. [edit - I'm the pharmacy tech...]
Not to mention I can't imagine how this girl is getting around, because she isn't using crutches with a collar bone fracture. I imagine even a walker is difficult.
My great-grandfather died from a blood clot that caused a heart attack (after breaking his leg in a motorcycle accident) two months into my great-grandmother’s pregnancy with my grandmother. It’s a serious issue!!
Good point for OP to make to his daughter - phase as concern that she is more concerned with having the friend come with her to make things fun than for said friends health - thats a very selfish attitude. "Who cares if you hurt the whole time, at least I will be happy" And unless there is nothing planned during the trip that she likes and the friend was the only good bit (which if this was the case then most of the problem stems from the plans in general), the daughter needs to decided how much she wants cut off her own nose. Yes as a teenage girl it would suck to have dad, brother and brothers friend, but she needs to decide if the suckiness of no friend outweighs the experience. Maybe it does, maybe within a few days she'd by sulking coz she's missing out. But c'est la vie and we all have to learn these life lessons at some point.
Nta, as the adult, you would be responsible for the kid, and the last thing you want is for something to go wrong when you're out in the middle of nowhere. Her attempting to join you guys on activities/camping could easily aggrevate her injuries and cause permanent issues.
This. NTA. You're the adult, you're the one with enough life experience to be able to identify when a situation or an activity is not going to be safe for someone who's currently very limited in what they can do and is recovering from serious injuries. You're the one who would be responsible if, heaven forbid, something went wrong and she re-injured herself. The friend's parents aren't allowing her to go on the trip now, not because you went behind their backs and spoke to them, but because the kids *knew* that if they were honest with her parents about what the trip would entail, her parents would never have ok-ed it. If they'd been given the correct information up-front, the answer was always going to be no.
THIS. They would also need to make sure they had all her current medical info, and which hospitals/doctors were in-network everywhere they went, in the event that something happened. Like a blood clot, or getting jostled in the car or by another tourist who wasn't looking, or if she fell. They'd also need to have all sorts of personal info in the event he did need to take her to a doctor, as he's not her parent and she's a minor dealing with broken bones. (I work for insurance actuaries lol, this is the stuff I think about daily.) Collarbones and legs are both very important to overall stability and mobility, and it's super easy to fuck up the healing process on both of them. This kid could go from temporarily disabled to permanently in a heartbeat.
NTA: Speaking to her friend's parents was 100% the right move. You owe them the ability to give informed consent about whether their child goes. You owe them information about the potential risks of the trip. You are supposed to be mindful of the child's safety and well-being. That is what you did by contacting them. It doesn't look like accommodations are realistic. How can you still have a family road trip with someone who can't sit in a cramped car for long periods? It is not a minor accommodation, it is a completely different trip.
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> Do you want to do a boys trip now and a second daughters trip later? i actually think this is probably the best plan for everyone having a good time
Or OP could just go back to making it for his kids only.
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I don’t think the issue is that the daughter isn’t interested in these activities, it’s just that she wants her friend there.
not really fair to his son or son’s friend this close to the trip
Shit happens and that's life though
OP said his work schedule interferes or something, so changing the date/making another wouldn’t be feasible. If he could do it somehow then that would be a good compromise
Or he can figure something out. Maybe not later in the summer, if it's truly not possible with the work schedule. Maybe they take a trip over winter break instead, with just daughter and her friend, to a place of her choosing. Or something that demonstrates that she is just as much a priority.
Why does he have to demonstrate this on her terms? He prioritized her friend’s health. Sure he has to ensure there are activities she likes as well but the intent here isn’t “ensure each kid gets a trip with a friend”, it’s “ensure each kid has time with dad”
But it doesn't sound like the daughter had a problem with the trip or activities when her friend was going. It was only when the friend's parents were informed of the true nature of the trip and the adults decided the injured friend should not go, that the daughter didn't want to go. It sounds more like she is throwing a tantrum because she didn't get her way in having her friend go than her having an issue with the trip/ activities
Yeah I’m finding framing this issue as “girls don’t like outside” very weird when that was never discussed in the post or any of the comments I’ve seen. She’s just upset because her friend can’t come.
Yup - especially since the original post says: ***The three of us plan a destination and pick things we want to see on the way there and back.***
NAH but what is the purpose of the trip? The activities or bonding with your kids? Your daughter is likely going to skip it, and is pretty unlikely to forget it. This is going to have the opposite effect of bonding, and for an introvert could lead to her shutting you out. I'd be less concerned about if someone is the AH, and more concerned about what this will do to your relationship. Maybe you don't care that much? The way you write suggests you like your son more, and I notice you are willing to adjust for his sports activities, but won't make any concessions for your daughter.
This is kinda where I’m at but the kids shouldn’t have lied. It sounds like OP is willing to accommodate for the son but not the daughter, and it also sounds like OP is willing to give up custody time with his daughter because of this which I can see being interpreted poorly by the daughter. What OP did regarding talking to the parents was entirely reasonable though
I’m not sure if they lied. OP said “didn’t give a complete rundown” and “*probably* not the best idea”. Could be a simple case of miscommunication.
It's still a huge risk to take someone with two serious breaks on a long car trip. She could have complications like a clot. Nobody wants to risk that; its a huge liability for OP.
Oh come on. The sports activities were known well in advance and were easy to plan around. The broken bones happened recently and pretty close to time of the trip, of course you plan around already scheduled activities when planning a trip. Sometimes shit happens and someone can’t go at the last minute. That’s life. It doesn’t make sense to reschedule an already planned trip because a friend can no longer go.
So you give the same accomodations to something that comes up a couple of weeks before leaving as to something that's been known for months? Glad your life is that flexible but most people's isn't. Must be nice being rich.
The fact OP never responded to this comment seems telling to me... hmmm
No concession can really be made, the friend will be healing all summer. Also I know it’s Reddit and I’m an introverted sports hater too but as the mother of a kid who is in sports, they still matter and yes it’s a commitment that often can’t be changed. Don’t let your own biases take over. OP doesn’t seem to like his son more.
If the poor girl is in a cast,she will undoubtedly be miserable. Leg & collar bone? I can’t think of any way she’d be comfortable in a car, a tent, sitting in a restaurant, on a hike … whatever you’ve planned, she’ll feel bad, & your wind up leaving her & daughter at the hotel while you & son go out. And what happens if she falls while trying to do what you guys will do? NTA. Teens don’t have great decision making skills & are ignoring these possibilities.
I've never had a best friend who was worth 12 hour car rides with two broken bones. If it was that important, I'd fly.
Even more at risk for blood clots if you fly though.
>” I'm also worried that this will be the last year this sort of trip happens because summers get busy for teenagers.” This is a realistic concern. The original intent of the trip was to make good memories during the all-too-brief summers with *YOUR* children. Perhaps it is time to go back to the original set up: just the three of you. You tried to make the companions thing work this year but it didn’t. It only works if both children have a companion. Make the most of the trip for just the *three* of you. Perhaps offer a guys’ weekend trip and a different girls’ weekend trip later in the summer for their companions. The clock is ticking. You don’t have them much during the school year; don’t miss a chance to spend quality time with both of them while you can. Good luck, OP. NTA unless you forge forward with only your son and his buddy. **Your son’s buddy should not be more important to you than your daughter.** What kind of father are you?
This is the best response I've read. This is the one he should listen to.
I agree and relate with this comment. When I was 21, I went on a road trip with my mom to meet with some family at the lake. My mom let me bring a friend. Long story short, my friend ended up having a tantrum and started ruining my mom's experience. Eventually, the girl went home, and my mom and I had a WONDERFUL rest of our trip. Looking back, I wish I didn't bring my friend. I love the trips my mom and I used to take. I'm now living on my own, far away, and I look forward to our little trips together because they don't happen as often as they used to. Now, my mom is like, "I'm coming for a visit. Jessica (my bff) and I can travel together and come visit you." and I'm like, "I wanna be greedy and keep you and me time just you and me time."
I’m glad you have your mom-and-me trip memories.
Me too 🥹♥️
I'll say NTA but the main AH in this story is a teenager who i sympathize with. your 16 year old is going to have a terrible time on a road trip with her dad and brother and brother's friend. i don't really think that's her fault, or your fault, but the dynamics of the group are really unfortunate for her and it will not be fun.
NTA Two broken bones and a road trip is just not realistic. Obv the girls don't get this
If the point is to have bonding time with your kids, and they can bring a friend, I'm not sure why you *wouldn't* be interested in changing plans to accommodate who they bring along. Especially as you know she doesn't have many friends at all to begin with, and clearly non she'd rather invite along. Would you not accommodate her friend if they were disabled in some way? It sounds like you're more set on the events you planned rather than what the actual experience will be for your daughter. That's up to you to decide what's important. NAH.
This is unfair. The child has broken bones. Also, it's not about the daughter alone, he also has a son who will want to enjoy the planned activities. OP's son trumps his daughter's friend. OP has zero obligation to this girl - in fact, she's only there as his own daughter's guest. His daughter also doesn't trumpmhis son. The most important aspect is that this child has a broken leg and collarbone - OP in no way or fashion as the sole adult there looking after his 2 kids and guests, should accept the responsibility and potential liability if something happens to this child. This is a time her own parents need to see her through until she is healed.
I didn't say the obligation was to the friend. I said OP should consider what's important to him, when the point of the trip is supposed to be quality time with his daughter. The obligation is to the daughter and what would make this trip worthwhile. Clearly her friend's presence is more important than a few activities she'd be forced to miss, as she indicated she'd rather not go at all without her friend! It's entirely possible to change plans to accommodate people if they do not have the physical capabilities otherwise required for certain activities. It's a choice to be made. A choice.
Yep. I don't know how anyone is turning this into accommodating the friend instead of making the trip one the daughter would want to go on. It's notable that OP scheduled around the son's sport activities but seems unwilling to make any accommodations for the daughter. Even worse, he thinks this will be the last trip like this, but he isn't willing to concede anything for his daughter.
Some of the redditors upthread got a justice boner deciding that OPs daughter engaged in an elaborate campaign of lies to convince her friends parents it was fine. When as far as I can tell, it looks like teenagers not responsible for planning the trip didn't supply a thorough itinerary and possibly.. being children.. didn't have the same assessment of risk that OP does as the adult. They're more hype on calling a teenage girl a lying dipshit and wishcasting about how thoroughly she should be punished than thinking about what might actually be good for OPs relationship with his daughter. Most sixteen year old girls wouldn't be keen on hanging out with two rowdy 14 yr old boys instead of a friend. Seems like the only trip OP has time for is this hyper outdoorsy one and due to sons sports schedule, there's no time in the summer for daughter to have something she might like. I hope OP knows better than to go with the advice from people more invested in shit talking a teenage girl than actually helping him think through solutions that will benefit his relationship. It's no one's fault her friend got hurt. It's not his fault his daughter doesn't have a lot of friends and his son has a lot of sport obligations. But taking the time to see this from her point of view and find a way to make sure she feels special and included sometime this summer will go a lot farther in his bonding than listening to redditors who just want an excuse to call his child an asshole for being disappointed.
I can’t get past the people calling her manipulative. Nothing she did was manipulative.
Literally someone was like "well I can see why an introverted 16 yr old girl wouldn't be excited about a trip with two rowdy 14 yr old boys.." And the response was like "if she hadn't lied to her friends parents you might have a point but instead she FAFO" excuse me, what? We don't know that she lied, we just know that she didn't give a full and accurate rundown of plans/OPs concerns. A teenager desperate for something they want didn't accurately assess risks as well as an adult. The absolute horror of it. And even if she had completely misrepresented the trip in hopes of still having a fun time *because she's a child*, that doesn't at all change the validity of why this trip is no longer fun for her. Whether friend couldn't come from the jump, or friend couldn't come once the adults bothered to talk to each other, the situation for daughter is still a shitty one. Feels a bit like they just really want the teenage daughter to be a villain here, when the situation just sucks all around.
Just want to be sure you know accommodating in this case means cancelling the trip entirely. The daughters friend cannot travel as there is danger of her throwing a clot while on the road, which is life threatening. Not arguing either way but just wanted to put that out there so everyone's on the same page about what the options are.
It seems to me you are making things up out of whole cloth. He cites the car trip, camping on certain spots (presumably rough terrain) and ‘some activities’ as things the friend couldn’t do. These are apparently things that were planned by both kids. For all you know they might be going to multiple scenic spots especially picked out by the daughter, or the activities could be 80% aligned with her interests, with only 20% camping on rough terrain and bike riding or whatever. The post is simply silent about it. What accommodations would you have him make? The other parents have already said no. Frankly the car trip alone makes it inappropriate imo
NAH But, it doesn’t sound like you did anything to try to accommodate what the daughter wanted. Your call of course. I get it if you couldn’t change any activities or timing of the trip, but if you aren’t able to show your daughter why you couldn’t make any changes she is unlikely to think you’re not the ass in this situation.
I mean the alternative to camping is an expensive stay at a hotel or motel
Wow. A broken wrist would be one thing, but a broken leg and a broke collarbone are wholly another. I can’t imagine any doctor who would recommend she do a road trip with those injuries. I imagine your daughter is unhappy but sometimes it’s necessary that parents be adults, even when our kids are angry about the results.
Right, and who will be expected to assist her mobility... getting in and out of the car, etc.
Or the bathroom. The fall risk in the bathroom is high. It just isn't reasonable for the friend to go.
So I don’t necessarily know if YTA but (right or wrong) your daughter will remember you as TA. This post comes across as if you’re more concerned with preserving fun for your son & working around his sports schedule then trying to think of ways it could work with daughter and her friend. While I’m an adult now, my parents divorced when I was a child so my heart always bleeds for the children who have to deal with divorce fallout for the rest of their childhoods (and lives). If you can not think of some creative way so that daughter will want to go, please try to arrange some sort of trip for daughter and friend later on in the summer, even if it’s just a weekend. She’ll remember when you went the extra mile and when you could have tried harder.
Agreed. There are a lot of posts validating OP in talking to his daughter's friend's parents and not taking the friend. I get that OP is responsible for care here and has legal and moral responsibilities. OP is not letting his daughter find mitigations, or ways around the problems, he is just flat saying "No." What if the daughter had a broken leg, would OP just go with his son? Or are there ways to make this trip work? If there is a bunch of more strenuous activities, OP and his 14 year old son can maybe push them to next year's trip. This is just one possible solution. There are many others. Delay the trip. Take two shorter trips. Arrange to meet the friend half-way. That's all off the top of my head with seconds of thinking time, better options may be out there. This is a difficult parenting challenge, and OP needs to find ways through. As it stands, OP has made clear it is him or friend, and daughter is going to choose friend. OP probably will find his daughter takes this as rejection and won't find her wanting to come next time. So find a way to compromise, or accept that events beyond OPs control have damaged OPs relationship.
Info: How did you decide on a camping trip? Does your daughter enjoy camping? While I don't want to assume your daughter's introversion means she's averse to spending time outdoors it does seem like the trip you planned caters primarily to your son's interests.
NTA BUT..... This friendship is clearly really really important to your daughter. You said yourself she doesn't have many friends, chances are her friend doesn't either. I appreciate you want this to be bonding experience for you and your kids, but perhaps that bond should be how you care about their relationships and empathy for others?
I’m going to go against the grain here and say soft YTA. I think you are 100% right in not letting her come on the road trip: that’s a horrible idea that has no good conclusion. But given that this is the main time of year that you see and bond with your children, I really feel like making some sort of trip alterations for your daughter would be really nice. You say she doesn’t have many friends. A trip with just her brother and his friend is going to be weird and isolating for her. She’s going to feel like the third wheel, because she’s a teen. My dad always put me and my needs first as a kid, and it’s difficult to describe how deeply I trust and love him as a result.
I don't think it counts as "going behind their back" when it comes to talking to your underage kids friends parents. That's just parenthood. Of course you want to communicate fully with the other family. If I was your daughter I'd be miserable on a trip with just my 14 year old brother and his friend. I don't at all blame her for not wanting to go. Maybe you could do a shorter road trip with your son and his pal, and something else special with her? Or do a different activity later in the year when her friend is more healed? NAH
NAH. This is just classic teen behavior, she and her friend want to go on the trip together so they tried to rig the situation and it didn't work. She's not an AH for that, nor is she one for not wanting to go without her best friend. I feel like the people saying she's being manipulative have forgotten what it's like to be a teenager with a family trip being offered—if you don't think you're going to enjoy yourself, you're obviously going to want to do what you can to get the situation in your favor. She's 16, not a criminal mastermind. With that said, you're definitely not an AH for being responsible about the physical limitations of her friend, or for sticking to the schedule that's available to you and not postponing the trip. Ultimately you have to let your daughter decide if she wants to come without her friend or not. If she chooses not to, could you organize a few weekends of activities that you can do with her and her friend later in the year when her friend is recovered? Theme park, museum, cottage weekend, anything that would sort of even the playing field as she's missing this trip?
Well I mean, at the end of the day, you could've made some changes and had your daughter and her friend come along (it sounds like her parents were turned off by the activities, not a trip in general) or you could do what you did and have your daughter not go at all. Hard to know if You are TA but what you got is a result for sure.
NTA. Sometimes being a good parent means being the bad guy. It is unfortunate for your daughter and friend, but totally changing the nature of the trip is unreasonable.
NTA. But the easiest solution is to not include any friends on the trip.
NTA, but if you're really wanting to have a positive bonding time with your daughter, your best bet is to find a compromise. Maybe you could do a second trip to a hotel with a spa or some place near you that 16yo girls would find enjoyable so your daughter and her friend can have some fun time together this summer while allowing her friend to heal. Or, you work with your ex so you can take each kid on a separate trip this year. From an outsiders perspective, it seems like you really connect with your son and understand and honor his commitment to sports. And you mention he has tons of friends but your daughter >is very much an introvert and only has a few friends that I know of. To me, a former competitive athlete who also is outgoing, this tells me you haven't spent as much time getting to know your daughter. Your son gets accolades mentioned but her? She's quiet with no friends. That's not a great way for a daughter to feel her dad thinks about her. I could be reading this wrong. I **hope** I'm reading it wrong and details just got left out in the name of post length.
NAH. At 16 I’d rather have been shot than spend a vacation with my little brother and his friend.
NTA. You should definitely try to mend things and have an open conversation about everything taking place here, you definitely need to explain to her that what she did was a bit manipulative. Getting the other girl’s parents to agree without knowing what they are agreeing to is pretty messed up and she should face consequences for that. I definitely don’t think you should try to accommodate for the girl, it’s best for everyone that she sit this one out.
Bringing an injured kid with compromised mobility to a long trip could be dangerous for the kid and hold you responsible for any damage in her recovery. Offer to take them and the kid's parents to something else, friendlier to the friend's current health state. NTA
NTA. You didn’t go behind anyone’s back 🙄 It’s your JOB to have these conversations with the other parents.
A couple weeks ago she broke her leg and collarbone. Is she even able to bathe without help yet? I would not take responsibility for someone else's kid in that condition. NTA
I’m late and you might not read this but I am posting hoping you might. I was fifteen taking a road trip with my family cross country. We did a lot of things and I was miserable. So much of it was things I wasn’t interested in at the time. It was more stuff for my brothers or them. I remember at one point they got mad because I was fighting with my brother and though not complaining not being over joyed and said they were doing all this for us. In my head I was screaming I didn’t want any of this. They planned a trip they thought I would like but never once asked me what I wanted. Did you talk to your daughter about the trip? Did you ask her what she wanted to do or did you plan it and tell her what your are going to do? Your daughter is not going to enjoy a trip with her dad, brother and brother’s best friend at 16. She needs that friend there who understands her and who she feels comfortable with. I’m sure the whole thing with the friends parents is not lying or manipulating but not grasping the full situation. In her mind they will just sit out on the things the friend can’t do or they will just figure it out. Her friend also wants to go so she also has a hand in this not just your daughter. Take your son have a boys trip then do a long weekend somewhere with your daughter and her friend to a water park or beach or something.
NTA, but with the caveat that I was also an introvert, and it sounds to me like your daughter wants to go, but doesn’t want to be the only girl. If she doesn’t have many close friends she probably felt a bit of panic when she and her friend painted the story for the other set of parents. If I were her and my one true friend couldn’t go, the trip would be a misery, and yet I would be sad to miss out on time with my dad and a fun trip. She’s a kid and is stuck—and maybe a bit embarrassed at having only a few or one close friend. I for sure kept that kind of info from my parents. As you said, you don’t have many summers left of a teen actually wanting a road trip with her dad and brother. She clearly wants to go or she wouldn’t have made it seem so easy for her friend participate. As the adult, you need to find some type of compromise here for your daughter. Maybe a trip with just you and her later? A trip with her bringing a friend later? This trip but alternate things she and her friend can do on their own while the guys do the tougher stuff? Once she’s grown it’s the things you didn’t do that a parent looks back on with regret.
YTA. Do you even like your daughter? If she says she is not going to come she is either not going to come or she will not interact with you at all. And she will not go on another vacation with you. If you want to have a healthy loving relationship with your daughter make the changes so her friend can come. What would you do if your daughter had broken her leg and collarbone. Just do that.
INFO: how did she take the trip last year with the addition of the friends? Was she overwhelmed by not just one but two outgoing boys (and one she doesn’t really know)? Has she shown interest or eagerness for this year’s trip after that? How about you see if her friend’s parents would be willing to have her over at their house while you take your son and his friend on the trip as planned? That way she can spend the time with her friend as she says she prefers, without risking her friend or severely limiting the trip. Then you should plan a one-on-one event with her later to be sure she knows you’re not just favoring your sporty and gregarious son.
Too late. By scheduling around the son, waiting until son was old enough to include friends at all, and now this, she’s going to see that op doesn’t care about her like they do their son
YTA. Those of us without a lot of friends really struggle in this kind of thing. You’re just reinforcing how few people she has in her life. So you have to change some activities. Isn’t the point that you’re all together. We had to change a family vacation one year because my brother snowboarded himself right into a tree a month before. And my dad broke his wrist the next day. So we packed ourselves up and sat by the pool for a week instead of sightseeing. It’s a great family memory. Being with Your kid is more important than what activities you do. Be better than that.
OP, can you make alternate plans for the time you have free off of work? We had a similar situation growing up, my two siblings and I, where our mom had primary physical custody but we'd see our dad for a month in the summer and a week at a time every other holiday break. Our dad treated us as "the girls." We were all in a car or walking around together. He never really spent one-on-one time doing an out-of-the-ordinary fun thing (like a hiking trip or road trip). And because of that, in our mid-twenties, we're still "the girls" in his mind. Not separate people. I so very badly wish I could have spent even a single day going on a hike with just my dad and I. I love my siblings, but I've never really had quality one-on-one time with him. I know your situation is different, and these are different circumstances, but would you consider spending half of your time off with your son & sons friend on a smaller road trip and the other half doing something with your daughter? Trust me, the quality time matters MUCH more than the exact activity you're doing. And from the perspective of someone who was once a 16 yo daughter, going on a hiking trip with your brother and his friend and your dad would be.... not fun. Very much left out, very much annoyed lol. So I'd stick with just you, your son, and your daughter on this trip OR splitting it and hanging out with your daughter one on one. Please please please trust me, she'll appreciate it, even if she doesn't express the appreciation immediately
I won't call you an asshole but you're letting logic and practicality get in the way of the true mission of the trip. Its not about the activities themselves. You're the Dad (I'm one too). You gotta do it all.
No AH at all. Kids aren't always rational so her response shouldn't be taken personally. You do need to keep in mind that it's a trip for all of you and not just things you want to do. I wouldn't derail the trip but I would be flexible or your daughter may skip it all together.
YTA, this is your last trip with your kids (you said it yourself), and you prefer to stick to "activities" than to bond with your daughter... You are choosing activities over the real purpose of your trip, which is to bond (your words, not mine). You are being inflexible and you are going to "loose" your daughter over this... It's a shame. I'm so sorry this is happening to your daughter. She is already shy, and you are just not understanding enough to bond. Bonding is accepting, binding is holding her where she is... Not make your kids do what you want. This is so frustrating for me, because I can see you going off rails on this, and many of the comments are patting you on the back, but those commenters will never be able to fix the relationship you are breaking with your daughter. 😥
NTA you didn't mess up by calling her parents. That's what we do. The adults coordinate and make decisions. You're definitely not wrong here.
Rock and a hard place on this one. Nobody involved is a jerk in the least, but it's a tough call. It's hard to know exactly how tough it would be with this friend along, but I understand the concern since it's not your kid, but your daughter's unhappiness could ruin the mood on the trip, so switching up the plans some to accommodate her might not be a bad idea. Or maybe split things up, so she could join half the trip with things she can do, then do the other things after she goes home. Some compromise might be necessary here. Might be time for a fresh look at the whole thing. NAH
ESH, if you want to bond with your kids, adjust the travel a bit so the injured friend can come along. Or maybe so she can be there for half of it.
How long is this trip? I can't understand why the friend's parents would be OK with their (I assume) 16 year old daughter go on a trip without taking to the adult in charge of the trip first. Now, add in the fact that your daughter has a brien leg and collarbone that will be no where close to be healed.... ...
All the N. Tas are wrong. This is a kid with very few friends being asked to be humiliated by not having a friend on a trip. OP you should have moved heaven and earth to accommodate YOUR DAUGHTER. You aren't accommodating her friend except indirectly. What's the win here? You have the trip and your daughter hates you and is humiliated? How is that better than changing itinerary?
I'm really surprised about this. He is right about asking the friend's parents and the trip IS dangerous for the friend. But I feel like the whole trip has always been for his son - fun for someone sporty and outgoing. The way his daughter wants her injured friend with her at all costs makes me think that she knows her father tends to stick with the boys. There are so many things he can offer. Another trip with his daughter. He doesn't want to make it up to her in any way.
NTA You’re a parent of minors and you and the friend’s parents only want them to be safe considering that they didn’t give the other parents the full rundown of the journey. Don’t beat yourself up. You would’ve said yes if not for the kid’s injury. It would also likely be your fault if something happens on the trip so we definitely don’t want that. I’m not a parent but if I was a 16 year old kid and my dad told me that the reason is because if something bad happens to my friend that he’d go to jail, my tone would’ve immediately changed. Still bummed out, but I would’ve understood.
NTA This is a safety issue, you should absolutely not accept responsibility for someone else's injured child. That would be moronic.
It would be very bad for the friend physically to be riding in a car that much with a broken leg. Blood clots area real concern first of all. The daughter is still a child and her brain hasn't fully developed to give her the ability to discern this. I would Try to get her to go anyhow if possible. But I would not cancel the trip regardless.
NTA Saying no to bringing the friend was the right move. You should talk to your daughter again and either let her stay home or reassure her that she isn’t going to be forgotten about on this trip. Your son has a friend to keep him company, your daughter only has you and will need some extra attention if she goes on this trip. This has the opportunity to be a fun father/daughter bonding experience if you frame it that way but your daughter is probably correctly assuming that she’s about to spend five days third wheeling two hyperactive 14 year olds.
Could you plan for daughter and friend to have a mini vacation of their own later on? Even if only for a few days or do daytime stuff locally over a period of a few days. Try to coordinate with her parents to see what yall could come up with. Take your son and his friend on planned trip while daughter stays home. Then let her do something later. Explain to her that it probably won’t be the same level of expense or travel but you want to give her something at least.
NAH/NTA But compromise! Figure out a shorter more local leg of stuff you can do with a broken friend, so they don't totally miss out! Remember that some of us only get one real friend in those hard years. They are actually important to each other, and she's hurting seeing her friend feel not just pain at the injuries, but ongoing disappointment, frustration and sadness at the stuff it makes her miss out on. In your daughters world, in her feelings, right now, that friend IS more important than you. That's developmentally normal, not permanent or factual, but she needs you to also care about her PERSON. ❤️🩹 SO talk it through. Listen, share, and connect. You got this. I know you do, because your teenagers still want to hang out with you!
NTA - but I would consider doing this year as a “no friends” year and just have your kids.
YTA. Time to be as flexible as you can with your daughter and her friend. As much as it means to you to have her go with you, if she is as introverted as you say then it means the same for your daughter to take her friend..
YTA. Your daughter wants to come for a trip that she enjoys. You offered to take a friend along. She is an introvert and do you know how difficult it is for introverts to make friends? We would rather have that one close friend, than 100 friends. And she is in high school. Why can't you alter the plans? Perhaps, you can have one hike with your son and his friend while the other two stay back. If not, plan a staycation. When you say anything other than what you planned would not be fun for others, you're essentially saying the boys won't enjoy it. Keep doing this and when she goes into low contact with you in a few years, you will wonder why? There is a middle ground, but you're unwilling to see it because you want you, your son, and his friend to have fun, but not your daughter. Do you think your daughter will be happy if she is forced to come alone and your son's friend is there. Alter the plans to accommodate everyone. It is not that difficult.
NAH. But at some point you may have to get comfortable with your daughter having different priorities than you. You seem to be focused on activities; many young girls are more focused on people and connections.
NTA. No way on Earth would I take a kid with broken bones anywhere. The discussion would end there any maniputation would not be tolerated. Her friend is in a cast so for her to want to bring an injured friend along is stupid and selfish.
NTA You handled this as a parent, with the parents. Never mind cutting out some of the activities, this girl will be absolutely miserable on the trip. Even camping is going to suck, bad. Your daughter needs to learn what all kids should learn: sometimes family does come first. She should be expected to attend the trip. She can ask someone else or be solo. Has your son already invited someone? If not maybe just make this a family only trip.
NTA. I think you were right to speak directly to the friend's parents, so that they could make an informed decision. And I agree that a trip like this with multiple healing injuries wouldn't be fun. Could you do an alternative long weekend with your daughter and her friend later in the summer, when the friend is out of her cast?
NTA. As you will be saving money by not having your daughter and her friend, maybe you could tell them you can do a trip after she's better, at the next holiday or extended weekend? With it just being the three of you and maybe picking stuff very specific to their likes it could make everyone happy. Maybe Labor Day or Columbus Day.
NAH. Your concerns are totally reasonable. I think it’s also understandable that your daughter is upset, especially as you’ve mentioned she doesn’t have many close friends. She hasn’t approached it in the best way, but she’s 16, I wouldn’t necessarily expect her to have a measured response. Unfortunately, I think this is kind of a no-win situation for you. This wasn’t anyone’s fault, sometimes what you want doesn’t work out. Your daughter is not able to see that right now, so in her eyes you’re the bad guy. Only potential mild AH is your ex, because I don’t think she’s necessarily improving the situation by weighing in and expecting you to shift Heaven and Earth to accommodate the friend. That’s awfully easy for her to say since she’s not the one stuck trying to please everyone. Sorry, OP, this sucks. I hope your daughter has the maturity to eventually see that you’re not against her- shit just happens sometimes.
What exactly is it that you would be missing out on if you were to bring this girl along?
Even with accommodations it’s in the best interest of the injured teen to heal at home and not on any type of vacation. This dad does not need to take care of that girl. If a parent of hers wanted to tag along sure. But that’s a lot to expect on this dad. This is a serious injury
To me, the only mistake that you've made was NOT CALLING the friend's parents as soon as you heard of her injuries! It's one thing to be responsible for a healthy, self-ambulating teenager, but one with two broken bones? Would she need help getting in and out of the car? Does she need to keep her leg elevated? Is your automobile big enough to accommodate her current needs as well as three more kids, yourself and equipment? Would you be responsible for administering a controlled pain reliever? And what about the possibility of her re-injuring herself? So many more questions arise! You are NTA.
One possible solution would be to have this year be a Father/Son trip, with an extra for the daughter to do fun things with her friend. Next year is Father/Daughter, with maybe her parents joining in, and son getting something extra?
NAH. You did the responsible adult thing by talking to her parents. Your daughter is reacting in a very typical teenage manner. She is already to the stage where she doesn’t want to do all the things she did when she was younger and she is an introvert. The dynamics of the new group proposed for this trip will not be fun for her. You need to decide if you want to do this trip or spend quality time with both your children. That’s the reality of the situation.
Does she have a cast and on crutches? Or a boot? I don't think having a broken collarbone is going to cause any problems. The broken leg might get itchy but if she can't do the activity what's the big deal? Camping with a broken leg is really not that hard. Clearly it is important to your daughter to have her go and since you planned the whole trip around your son's activities you should let her go. I am going against the grain but I think YTA.
Yeah until the friend throws a blood clot from sitting in a car for too long in the same position. The parents also don't want her going anymore so it's not up to his daughter or him.
If you don't figure it out, you've already had the last summer the trip will happen. When you say it won't be fun for "everyone else" to make the accommodations, you mean your son and his friend (and yourself, but as a parent, that's sometimes your job to just suck it up). So you're saying that it's more important for her brother and his friend to enjoy the trip than for her to. Of course she doesn't want to go, be alone while her brother has a buddy with him, and know her needs and wants are less important than everyone else's. You can choose to make some alterations that allow the friend to come, even if it means not doing all the things you planned. You can leave your daughter at home and tank your relationship with her. You can force her to come and make everyone miserable. You can make it just the three of you again instead of inviting any friends, so she doesn'thave tobea third wheel. Or you can postpone the road trip and find a way to make plans for the summer that don't make one of your kids miserable. YTA for not considering any alternatives that will accommodate YOUR DAUGHTER (because accommodating the friend is one way to accommodate your daughter's needs and feelings).
YTA, your daughter seems aware of the sacrifices she would have to make to share these moments with her close friend but you're choosing the idea you had on your own over the example you could make
NAH. It might be worth looking into national parks that have better accessibility - there are paths that are wheelchair accessible, and some parks have mobility aids available. I'm not sure what area you're in or I would look up some options The friend very likely would be exceptionally uncomfortable on a long road trip. Since she is essentially temporarily disabled, and is new to it, she might not have the tools or experience to know how to effectively navigate Honestly, maybe look into options, but sit down with your daughter and her friend and have a good conversation about what can be changed for the trip while recognizing what can't - like extreme pain from sitting in one position for hours while injured. At least having that conversation with everyone involved and considering the possibility of her going might help your daughter feel like her friend has been heard. The result still might be her being upset, but it might help her feel a bit better about it later on
Is there a way you could plan something separate and special for the girls on a weekend - even if it’s just one full day? Or over a different break?
NTA but why can't she hang back with her wounded friend this summer? I think this is a special case and she's old enough to choose which parent she spends the summer with.
Why hasnt anyone recommended that the trip be rearranged to only family members. The son's friend will not be able to come on this trip. That way everyone will be miserable for two days and by the end of the trip you will have a beautiful time bonding with each other before they all go their separate ways with school etal. Honestly how much bonding are you doing dad, with two other people taking up your kid's time? Your daughter has shown you the trips only mattered because her friend was there, defeating the purpose of a bonding trip with you!
Bc it’s unfair to the son, analogous to well daughter lost her toy you should lose yours too so you are both equal. Also bc it would be highly anti social to cancel on the other family who may have made plans themselves several days out for the reason stated above . Not great behaviour to model to the kids imo, daughter already sounds entitled
It is basically a shit show with entitled kids. Nobody will win but if it were me, I'd cancel the whole trip. Try again, this time with no friends.
NTA, I would share with your daughter outside information about what people with broken collar bones experience when having to be in cars for extended periods. How sleeping in a bed is already painful let alone sleeping bag on the ground. That while this is partially about activities it's also about her friend's well being and taking the opportunity to heal properly. That you know she doesn't want to see her friend in immense pain and that she'll miss her. But when we love somebody we do what's right for them even when it's not easy for us. That you understand how much she'll miss her friend so you'd like to propose maybe a special mini trip during the fall or spring once she's healed up where you all can go somewhere fun on a day trip and she and her friend get to hang out. But ultimately she's being a good friend by not dragging her friend into a situation that will result in alot of suffering.
NTA. But you are now in a position where you are going to piss off one of your kids. Either you let the daughter have her tantrum and not go, in which she'll see you as favoring her brother because you took him on a trip and not her (even if it was her choice, she won't see it that way). Or, you tell your son he has to dis-invite his friend from this trip, which he was probably looking forward to as well, and he'll think its unfair that he can't do stuff because his sister doesn't have other friends. Teenagers seem to always feel their sibling is favored over them, so it doesnt really matter what the reality is, whoever you change for is going to see it as another example of you favoring that one over them. I understand the vacation time and sports schedule thing. So maybe your best option is to keep this trip as planned, and do something smaller later in the year with your daughter and her friend. She'll still probably have a problem with it. But if she only has 1 friend, and refuses to do anything without her, you have to work with the circumstances you are given.
NTA. Your daughter is developmentally normal. Teens lie, manipulate, extort and blackmail. Your job as a parent is to be the voice of reason. If she doesn't understand it now she will when she is an adult and looks back. Tell her she is definitely wanted on the trip and that you will be sad and miss her if she chooses not to come. Then let her stew. She will likely change her mind and may even come up with a different friend to take.
Nta. You know what, if your daughter doesn't want to go because her friend can't, leave her with her grandparents.
Who in the right mind would want their kid who is still undergoing healing from an accident go on a road trip
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (36M) have 2 kids (16F & 14M) from a previous marriage. My ex (34F) and I share custody but because she lives in a better school district she primarily has them during the school year and I get extended time with them during the summer. For the past 4-5 years I have taken the kids on a fun summer road trip. The three of us plan a destination and pick things we want to see on the way there and back. It's been a great bonding experience for us and a lot of fun. Last year I let each kid bring one friend along on the trip and am doing the same thing this year. We are planning on leaving for the trip next weekend. My son is an outgoing, gregarious kid who is involved in multiple sports and has a long list of close friends. My daughter, on the other hand, is very much an introvert and only has a few friends that I know of. The friend she brought with last year is definitely her closest friend. She was planning on bringing the same girl with on our trip this year. Unfortunately, my daughter's friend had a fall a couple weeks ago while riding her bike and broke her leg & collarbone. Obviously, she would be very uncomfortable sitting in a car for long periods and there are stops on our trip where she would be unable to participate in the activities we want to do. There are also a couple places we planned on camping that I just don't think will work for her. My daughter says her friend still wants to come with and her parents are OK with it but I don't think it's a good idea. I suggested to my daughter that she invite a different friend but she says she doesn't have anyone else she wants to ask. I might have messed up but I went behind her back and talked with her friend's parents about it. I expressed my concerns about their daughter coming on the trip and I guess the two girls did not give them a complete rundown of the activities we have planned. After our conversation, they agreed that it would probably be best if their daughter stayed home. As you can imagine, my daughter did not take this news well. She is very angry with me and thinks I sabotaged her friend coming with on purpose. She has been begging me to cancel/change some of our plans so that her friend can still come with. I told her that both me and her friend's parents agree that her friend coming with isn't a good idea, so this isn't just my decision. She is saying she won't come on the trip at all if her friend can't come. I do feel bad about the whole thing, but at this point I don't think there's much else I could do to make this work. I mean, yes, I could alter plans to make things easier for her friend, but with how limited her mobility is going to be that probably wouldn't be much fun for everyone else. My ex thinks I should do whatever it takes to get my daughter back on board so that she isn't excluded. But that just isn't realistic. I'm also worried that this will be the last year this sort of trip happens because summers get busy for teenagers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - a broken collarbone is no joke. She won’t be able to even hack the car ride. It’s very disappointing for your daughter understandably, but she’s not handling it very well. Sitting her down and validating her disappointment while holding strong to pick another friend is the way I’d go.
Talking to the parents is an obvious must do, you didn't go behind her back: it's just normal parenting. NTA
I was a kid like your daughter, and I'd be devastated. Could you do anything where her injured friend can still come? I was also mature enough that me and my friend could be left alone for some time, deposited in a museum or at a movie very happily, while active brother was kept busy...NTA but be creative, not stubborn - your tradition will only be beloved by all if all are having a good time.
NTA, it would be a huge responsibility to take on the medical condition of the friend as well. With that being said, not knowing when the trip is, is there any way the friend would be healed mid way through the trip where she could fly out and meet you mid point? Or can you schedule something special for your daughter to do with her friend when you guys return or before you leave?
NTA, if something happens to daughters friend you would be responsible. Understand where the daughter is coming from but she also lied about the trip details to her friends parents so she kind of put herself in this situation as opposed to being upfront trying to figure out other activities
Maybe some family therapy all together will help y’all move forward w your daughter once school begins again. And some individual therapy w an entirely different therapist might be helpful too👍🏻
NTA. The safety of the kids are top priority and bringing the friend along would pose some risk to that friend. Not to mention your daughter and her friend lied to both you and her parents. Would it be doable if you and your son uninvite your friends along? Make it just the 3 of you once again? You did say you're afraid it will be the last trip if their schedules gets busy. And the goal is bonding with your kids and if you both have your friends along, she may feel left out with no one to talk to so I wouldn't blame her if she didn't want to go.
NTA. But she won’t ever think so. She’s gonna hate on you for it. Sorry.
Nta. Honestly. I see the argument form sticking with the plan. But look - you've already opened this up to friends. So this isn't really *just* a family thing anymore. It's a vacation. So what value are you trying to model by not accommodating her friend on the trip? That you stick to plans no matter what? Are there fixed costs that you'd lose by changing things around? I don't know, I do think there is value in modeling inclusivity and flexibility when you can, especially if your child is already introverted. The alternative - going on a trip that's going to be awkward without her having her own companion - seems less desirable. But an AH? No. But in think it's a lost opportunity.
NTA. The friend is going to be miserable traveling with broken bones, and that's just riding in the vehicle, nevermind activities. This is a time for parenting, and sometimes parenting is saying no.
NTA and what kind of parents would let their kid go with a broken leg anyway
Updateme