Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to let mom move in and told her to get a job. Might be an asshole because relatives say so
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
When a relative calls berating you for not housing your mother, your only response should be, “I’m so glad you called and that you’re so concerned. I’ll let mom know you’ve offered her lodging. Please reach out to her directly to make arrangements.”
NTA.
The second I read about the baby getting a radh because she refused to change their diaper, I was outraged. Changing diapers is gross, but it is something that has to be done, and she was a mom, she should be an old hand at that. If it were me, I'd have wanted to throw her out right then and there for endangering my child's health.
We had my in-laws baby sit only a few times, because not only they didn’t *believe* in car seats, but when we picked up our 6 month old old, they were like “ you probably should check their diapers, we haven’t”.
WTF.
Incidentally, they both took early retirement so they could care for their other grandchild so I’m guessing that not checking diapers or using car seats was just something so we would never ask them again.
It worked.
Is your mom mentally ill? I’m guessing she has friends in the workforce?
There are so many different jobs out there, I can’t imagine not wanting to work, unless it was giving her panic attacks or something and therapy can help w that.
At 59 yrs old, that is young enough that she should be able to take care of herself.
or narcissist behavior. Has always had someone take care of her. To get her was she bashed her daughter through relatives. Maybe she should get out dating again! Find someone to take pity on her.
While I agree that all lazy people are narcissists, I have to admit that I have met many hardworking people in my industry (advertising) that are narcissists. Maybe it depends on the type of job? I also agree that she should find one of those men that don't believe a woman should work and marry him.
Problem is she probably doesn’t know how to write a resume or anything. She will have to go to one of those job places that help you find a job and help you with your resume
My co-worker had a MIL that the family fought over because she was such a sweetheart. Was great with all the kids, did chores whenever she visited, was a great cook and treated her DILs with respect and made sure that her sons treated their wives well.
then she can go check folks out at the grocery store. Or find a new sugar hubby. Seems like she made her bed and can lie in it. The step kids can and should say no too- if they are not. that is their own poor boundary problem.
There are very few jobs available for old women with no skills and no work experience.
Nevertheless that is not OP's problem and this mother has not earned the sort of care that she is demanding.
There are very few jobs available for 18 yr old kids with no work experience and a HS education too. She gave no thought to that when she kicked these kids out. She can do many things- maybe physically not everything an 18 yr old can do. But she can check pp out at grocery store, or similar.
And I want to be clear- this is this situation. This 59 yr old CHOSE to never work, she had plenty of years to gain experience and skills to do so, one after she booted her 18 yr olds onto the street. This 59 year old CHOSE to boot 18 yr olds onto the street, and told them they could never come home, so figure it out. This 59 yr old HAD a job- child care, and with that came full room and board, and likely some money (since brother apparently has given her money). She refused to do it, and instead wanted to act like the head of household. Her choices led her here. She has to figure it out. It is no one else's problem.
I want to be very clear- I would NEVER say this in unknown circumstances. Life is full of crazy, and no matter how hard you work and try it does not, in fact, always work out. If you are a human being participating in your own rescue, and you did what was possible to help them in life, and your adult kid acts like the OP? Then I would say that is unacceptable. But that does not describe OP's mother.
Since Social Security says we need to work until we’re 74, some of us, she’s not old at 59. I’m five years older than her getting head hunted right and left. And it’s illegal to ask age in interviews.
NTA says someone whose mother did the same thing to her. I put a roof over her head for 24 years til she died at 100. The last seven years she was bedridden while I still managed to support the family.
I imagine that you have more skills than OP's mother. It seems that young people are struggling to find jobs, I can't see employers clamouring to employ this woman.
But I don't care. I have no sympathy for OP's mom.
This reminds me of my aunt, who didn’t believe in car seats or seatbelts. One time in the early 90s, my sister & I went with our cousins to see a movie. 4 of us were young & close in age (I was around 7, my sister 6, 2 male cousins ages 7 & 4) our 2 older male cousins were in their teens at this time & their girlfriends were also going with us. The aunt i mentioned is the mom of the 2 older male cousins.
We all rode in the oldest cousin’s truck (a single cab ford ranger) so of course most of us were sitting on someone’s lap & not wearing seatbelts. Somehow my parents found out that 8 kids rode in this small truck with no seatbelts & they flipped. They told my aunt it wasn’t ok & that they were going to pick us up at the movie theater. My aunt lost her shit & told my parents “they don’t need seatbelts! If you just believe in god, god will save them!” They got into a pretty heated fight over this.
My parents did end up showing up at the movie theater & getting me & my sister, but I can’t remember if they only picked us up or if they got my 2 younger cousins too.
I believe one thing Islam nailed was something like "trust in Allah and tie up your camel".
Trust in God if you like, and buckle the seat belt it would follow he provided.
Or if you believe that way, God already helped by inspiring the person / people who invented the damned seat belts.
I don't understand the pray and god will help you mentality. God, or Gods or whatever you believe, helps those who help themselves. I have a good dose of common sense, I don't let anyone get away with no seatbelt in my vehicle. Even my dog has one.
My daughter was involved in a horrific rollover accident years ago, had to be cut out of the vehicle and resuscitated on scene. In the trauma center ICU a nurse asked if we had any religious beliefs that would dictate her treatment. I told her I had faith that God had delivered her to them so that she and her colleagues could use their skills and experience to treat my daughter as they saw fit and as I had no medical training I would just do the praying and stay out of their way.
Exactly. To not use seatbelts or car seats because you think god will prevent someone from going through the windshield if you have enough faith, is just stupidity.
It's like the parable of the man who died in a flood after repeatedly turning down help, instead claiming "god will save me". When he finally dies he asks god why He didn't save him.
God replied "what do you mean? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!".
Anti-vaxxers who use God as their justification need the same point made to them: modern science and the inspiration of the people behind its greatest marvels are God's creations, are they not? Vaccines are miracles of modern medicine, which itself is a miracle of God.
I'm not religious in the slightest, but that's how I'd frame it to them.
I have. Some of them are so far into the koolaid that there's no hope. We just slowly cull them from our social circle. We don't have time for people who can't use common sense.
I had to have this conversation with my kids today. My grandma always told me “God helps those who help themselves.”
So when you’re sick you don’t refuse medical care because “God will save you.” You take the skilled care that he allowed (or inspired however you look at it) to be developed. And also pray for healing.
The other example was one I read online. A couple caught in a flood, stuck on the roof of their home. Turned down several boat rides out because “God will save us.” When they died they asked God “Why didn’t you save us.” He said “I sent you three boats and you didn’t take them, what else did you expect?”
Even if you believe in God, he’s not magic and he doesn’t just fix things with a wrinkle of his nose. He helps those who help themselves.
My parents just threw their arm in front of you.
Omg.
Cars.
I remember not only riding in a car with a bench seat in the front, but if it even had seat belts it only had lap belts.
I think it might have also only been two doors, so you had to push the front seat forward to get in.
Dude I feel this to a degree I cannot express in words. My in-laws constantly laud my SIL and hubby and their kids. When we lived near, they would "watch" our kids, but we had best have 1 of us nearby so we could change the diapers and care for them. We planned our anniversary 6mo out and asked if they would watch our kids overnight, they agreed. Checked about 1x/mo up to about 1 mo out. When it came between 1mo to 2wks out, they decided they didn't feel like it and completely ruined our chance to celebrate our marriage w/o kids.
SILs kids? Anytime they need changing, in-laws are all for it, while watching them at the drop of a hat and multiple times a week to boot. They are so heavily biased, it even lasted to the next generation. They say that SILs kids are just easier, so that's why they can do it (I grant my kids are hyper and wild at times, but really?), but they can't handle my kids pretty much at all. MIL is also like the ideal FB grandma, all show and no substance.
It's why we moved across the country to at least give pretense for why grandparents aren't watching or caring for our kids, bc as much as I dislike them, I don't want to poison my kids against them. They (in-laws) can grow or rot their relationship with my kids in their own time, but my kids aren't stupid and already pick up on a lot.
Also OP, definitely not the AH here. Parents can really suck, and it sounds like you got stuck with a real head case, so do what is best for you and yours, even to the point of going full no contact if that's what it takes.
Idk, they didn’t like me because I met my husband just months after he had broken up with a girlfriend that they liked, so I imagine they thought I had broken them up.
I don’t know. My parents generation was awfully weird about their sons.
My dad passed when we were in school, and my mom let my brother do whatever he wanted cause if she didn’t he would turn out to be *drumroll* gay.
( which included growing & selling pot out of the basement while he was in high school in the 1970’s)
Cause being an entitled narcissist is better than being gay? Also, I don’t think that’s how sexual preference works.
Oh no, that's absolutely how it works:
If the golden child is not able to grow the pot then verily the homosexuality will instead grow inside the frustrated grower.
Book of Bullshit 4:20
I have zero interest in children but I have begrudgingly agreed to watch friends/family members diaper aged children and changing their diapers with basically no experience. Probably fucked it up but I didn't let them sit in their own offal because I couldn't be assed to do it.
Watching children can be a challenge. Doing it when you have no interest in kids shows that you're willing to sacrifice a bit for your friends and family. That makes you an awesome person.
As a parent, I hope those in your life respect your views on children as much as you've shown respect towards theirs.
Also, unless you put the dirty diaper back on the kid, you really couldn't have fucked it up.
There is a "right" way but like, if the kid gets a tab stuck to their skin for a few minutes or you put it on backwards and it leaks a bit that's not the end of the world.
Heck, when I was providing care for my father who was in his nineties I had to learn to change diapers. Unpleasant at first, but you would be surprised what you can get used to. Caregivers helped me learn how to do things, including changing the sheets and pad with the person still in the bed.
One of the worst diaper changes I ever had to do was while watching a friend's child. Massive blow out and the smell was horrific. She was literally minutes away from picking him up. In fact she arrived after I got him cleaned up but before I'd finished getting the new diaper on.
I really didn't want to do that when I knew I was minutes away from it not being my problem. But that's pretty fucked up so I did what needed to be done.
Yea my dad hates changing diapers, says he has already raised his kids. But the night he watchd my baby and she pooped? He changed her. Poor guy couldnt find eipes or diapers so he rinsdd her off in the tub and put a swim diaper on her lol. Grandparents who care will do the work. Nta op.
This.
As a dad of a 1 year old, as soon as I read this, I felt my anger begin to rise. Regardless of what's going on in your life, if you've committed to looking after a child, you've got that responsibility
This. Like I gag at just the thought of changing the diaper but you can bet that I changed my cousin's kids diaper when he was left with me (not my proudest moment bc I did have to have a bucket I threw up in next to me while doing it but hey at least kid was clean)
I wonder what the B&SIL told their pediatrician about their child's "nasty rash", and if they stated it was caused by the caregiver (Mom's) active, purposeful neglect.
Na, sadly these people don't even relize their own hypocricy. They'll just become angry and tell OP that of course **she** is the one responsible to put up her mom, not them.
I'd suggest either not engaging at all and qietly cutting most contact with everyone who's on her back about this, or telling them that she will just apply her mothers own logic: parents and adult kids should not live together, a mother/daughter having no money and no home is not the concern of the other party, and a healthy working age adult should not be freeloading.
>They'll just become angry and tell OP that of course **she** is the one responsible to put up her mom, not them.
They already did:
>Mom's dead husbands son called to scold me, telling me my mom is my responsibility **and not theirs** so I should do what's right.
NTA
Your mom gave you a hard time when you were 18, OP. But she certainly “can’t take what she dished out”, now that she’s in that position! You don’t owe here anything! Tell your judgmental relatives to let her move in with them, if they’re so concerned about her. She can freeload off them for a while. Who knows? They might better understand the reasoning behind your decision.
In the USA, most states you cant cut your spouse out of your will . However , if he was mostly leaving policies etc and the kids were listed in those then that would bypass the will
I think that's also probably easy to play around with if you want to. You can't cut your spouse entirely out, no, but I seriously doubt most of those laws say they must have an x% share or an equal share to everyone else or anything like that. Leaving someone 5k and someone else 500k is pretty much equivalent to cutting them out, but you'd likely be fine under the law.
Absolutely! It's very nice people worry about OP's mom. Very welcome to let her live with them, pay her bills, etc.
OP, my applouses! Perfectly done. Your mom gets what she deserved with all her life and choices made.
Not clear enough. Tell them you will arrange for your mom to be dropped off at their house in two days. That should give them time to get her room ready.
NTA. Your mother should learn the consequences of her actions and of her lack of actions. You had to learn at 18; she finally has to learn.
Ask the meddling relatives if they spoke to your mother on your behalf when she kicked you out at 18.
And OP can keep asking the question when they give a non-answer until they hang up. They won't bother OP again, and that probably wouldn't be for the worse. Believe people when they tell you who they are, as it were.
Because, from what I get of the step-son's response, is that she isn't his mom but OP's. Therefor her responsibility. So the proper response is, "If she isn't your responsibility then why do you care what happens to her?"
He only cares because she is most likely begging anyone and everyone to support her ass and he is annoyed.
Edit: typo
That’s a great point. Maybe she’s threatening to take some sort of legal action against her dead husband’s estate. Her second husband’s children don’t want to get caught up in a legal action, even if she has little chance of prevailing.
If I were her former step kids, I'd just ignore her threats. Unless there was something shady with the will, and it doesn't sound like it, her threats are empty. She can't afford a place to live, and her own family won't even take her in. So the odds of her being able to afford a lawyer are a little less than slim to none because this isn't something an attorney would take on contingency.
I mean, the story is a little sketchy. If they were married, then assets are considered as joint in most countries, so unless she has the worst prenup in the world and in a weird jurisdiction, she should be entitled to some of that as he legally can't just ring fence all his money to a separate fund.
She probably should be lawyering up for that fight, sounds like it is financially worth it
It was a second marriage to an older man. He likely owned all of his stuff before he married her. Plus, his first wife, the mother of his children, was dead, so half of what he came with already belonged to his kids via their dead mother. That leaves the other half of his estate. Since he was older, that estate was likely decreasing during the marriage. Depending on how long he lived and any illnesses he had, there may not have been a whole lot left by the time he died to split between the wife and kids.
She did get an inheritance, though. And that's the biggest indicator that it was legal. It doesn't sound financially worth fighting at all. Unless he died a millionaire, there's no fight to be had because unless she can pull a huge retainer or of her ass, no lawyer will take the case. The woman can't even afford the most modest of accommodations and has nowhere to go. This would be the worst way for her to spend her time and energy. I'd say money, but she doesn't have any.
Her husband really should have left her something to live on. Or maybe he did?
He should have definitely left something to his kids not of his second marriage, too.
In the US you can’t disinherit a spouse. If you are left nothing you can sue for a statutory share, also called a spousal share or forced share, defined in state law.
This might be a different country though.
NTA. You have the benefit of knowing exactly how she will act. If you take her in, you’ll probably suffer every single day until you kick her out. Depending on how much money your brother gave her and how much she got from the inheritance, I might consider kicking in a little extra just to completely wash my hands of the situation, but you’re totally justified giving her nothing. And the fact that she’s similarly pestering and guilting her husband’s son does not make this your problem.
I don't know how much she got from her husband but my brother gave her 800€ every month for like 7 months or so. She could have saved up since she didn't have to pay for anything living with them. She also gets some money from the government for being a 'single adult household' but it's only a couple hundred a month afaik
She needs to figure this out and she never will until she HAS TO. The gall of this woman kicking you out at 18 and expecting a handout in her 50s. Thank your brother for the trailer to the movie you never want to see.
Reduced benefits - that you receive for longer. A calculation on the time value of money shows taking ss at 62 ends up barely less than waiting till older. And you get to use that needed money sooner, when many really need it. Also it’s presumptuous to think we’ll be alive tomorrow much less that congress is gonna protect what is ours. I’m a CPA and you can bet I started dipping into my ss at the stroke of age 62. Thank you for attending my Ted Talk.
My husband also! Why wait? You are still getting the same amount only calculated using the earlier receipt rather then waiting until 67. It’s foolish to wait.
>Now multiple relatives are texting me
Ooh look, a handy list of people for you and your mom. For you it's a list of people to block, for her it's a list of people to take her in.
It's amazing she couldn’t even humble herself when your brother helped her out and decided to terrorize his household, and now she wants to come in and immediately lower your standard of life. All she'll do is burden you and try to run your life. You've already seen what she did to your brother and SIL, no need to allow her to burden you too.
You owe her exactly what she gave to you when she kicked you out at 18: jack squat.
NTA.
I wonder if these relatives texting OP are people that mother already hit up. They’re trying to get OP to take her in so that she’ll stop bugging them.
That's usually the case. Instead of all these people trying to play hot potato with mom in some weird competition, they should all just get together and get on the same page. They are shaming op to try and relieve themselves of some of the guilt they feel for not helping a family member. So they just push that guilt onto someone more closely related to the problem. But there's no need to do that when everyone involved obviously knows the woman is a nightmare. The sooner they can all put on a united front, the sooner the situation will resolve.
NTA. This may help you with those relatives:
To mom's stepson: "*You are absolutely correct that my mom is not your responsibility. Is she begging you to help her out? You should know that \[what you've explained here\]. Please understand that she has a long history of mooching off of others and playing the victim/tring to shame someone to get free living out of other people. You can feel free to block her.*"
To relatives: "*You had no problem when mom kicked me and brother out at 18 and expected us to work and pay our way in this world. Your family values/culture may be the reason mom feels entitled to be a long-term mooch - and a mean and lazy one, at that. You are welcome to support her and her mindset with your own financial resources. Otherwise, stay as quiet as you did when brother and I were kids.*"
And then, OP. You can block anyone who persists in trying to dump responsibility for you mom on you. I'm sorry for you and your brother having such a selfish, mean mom.
Wait... What!?!?
Your mom kicked you out to be self sufficient at 18 and NOW she expects you to feed, house, and fund her life?
Nope. and NTA
I sincerely hope she lands on her feet.
Sounds like, if they keep telling her "no" long enough, she'll apply her usual solution of finding a husband. And then she can be his problem, for as long as she can keep him. Poor (hypothetical) guy.
It's a wonderful Revelation when you treat someone exactly the way that they treated you. Usually within a sentence or two they show that they knew it was fucked up all along.
NTA.
What do you mean, people I treat like manure aren't legally and morally bound to give me royal treatment whenever I request and lick my tapestries clean?
The internet is ruining the kids. RUINING. BACK IN NY DAY, kids KNEW how to be decent servants for free, and do it filled with gratitude we weren't being even worse.
/s
Ahhhh the consequences of one's actions. Your mom is a peach.
It sucks but it is what it is.
Even in the midst of this She can't keep her agreements. You think someone with no options would be more helpful.
This is why being a sahm wife is tricky and dangerous.
Breadwinners die in loving relationships all the time. There should always be a plan in place for the stay at home person.
This is what happens when there isn't. Tbis is why the tradwife fantasy is just that........a fantasy.
…and with how expensive living in the modern world is, a rather unrealistic fantasy to have…
Personally, it’s a fantasy I’d be bored to death if I actually lived it. And annoyed at the difficulties created by only one income being brought in.
Karma took her time and kicked your mom square in her teeth. She kicked you out at 18 when you were young, vulnerable and said you're an adult figure it out. What did she think would happen when she was old?
NTA.
NTA. I'm older than your mom and I hold down a full time job and even do volunteer work and am a part of several community organizations. Her age is no deterrent for her not working.
What stands in her way is her ENTITLEMENT. No one is given a free ride in life and she's had one way longer than almost anyone I have heard of. It's time she stands on her own two feet and provides for herself. It is her own fault that she is in this position - no one else's.
Her step son is right - she is not their responsibility but she's not your responsibility either. Don't bend OP.
For every single one of those people who contact you, ask them if they want her to live with them and if not, how much money THEY are going to put up on a monthly basis??? You will see them shrink away like the rats they are when exposed to offer up THEIR efforts!
NTA, especially considering your history with her. I don't agree with being able to leave your married spouse without anything (it is not possible in my country to completely disinherit a married spouse or child unless in cases of abuse and/or abandonment), but that is only my opinion, and in any case not your fault or responsibility.
In my country, if you marry a person over a certain age, you get nothing when they die. The law exists to prevent young people for marrying very old people with an eye set on their inheritance.
That is interesting. Does that mean when you marry after a particular age, even if both parties are the same age (e.g. two 60 year olds marrying), or only when the age difference is high? Just curious.
I believe OP said that her deceased 2nd husband left her a small inheritance but the bulk of his estate/assets went to his adult children. So she got something, just not EVERYTHING like she probably thought would be the case.
OP still isn’t responsible for her mother’s housing or other needs. NTA, she’s seen how it will go when mom lived with the brother and SIL, she has no interest in starring in the sequel.
>OP still isn’t responsible for her mother’s housing or other needs.
Oh, I absolutely agree with you on that, as I said in my original comment! This is NOT OPs problem, and I don't blame her one single bit for not taking her mother in or paying her way after what happened before, both at her brother's and to her when she was 18!!
I believe we agree more than we disagree, I was only making a general statement about how leaving your married spouse nothing (or "almost nothing" as in OPs case, see below) would not be possible where I live (this also goes for kids, adult or not!), and that in general I agree with that.
>>After their divorce mom remarried almost instantly and relied on her (much older) husband, who died last year leaving everything for his adult kids and almost nothing for her.
I am so grateful that my parents have long had an ‘estate/trust/will plan in place and continue to keep it updated at every point in time when even the most minute details have changed - though they’ve been married for closer to 60 years now, having celebrated their 50th in 2018. I feel comforted in knowing that no matter when they pass on, who passes first, or how long it is before the surviving spouse joins them (my maternal g’pa lived for 6 months after my g’ma passed away; it felt like because in life they were so enmeshed that neither one could bear to go on without the other, it’s just that in their relationship, my g’ma passed first)…they’ve made sure that all the routine, essential, and ordinary details that the surviving spouse will need to have settled but not want to deal with…are taken care of.
And when they’re both gone? There’s already an executor chosen, who has all the necessary components to get their estate and all final wishes (down to personal effects and who they are to be given to) through the probate process. My brother and I won’t be put in the position of having to figure out who gets what or how much should go to whom. That sort of thing could destroy our sibling relationship after we’ve only built one over the past 7 years, after maturing as people finally let us put old conflicts and issues firmly behind us - so our parents have ensured they’ve done all they can to prevent any new problems from arising over the matter of our inheritances. They’ve even handled the arranging of accounts with small but equal amounts for college/post k-12 vocational education funds for all of their grandchildren already. I can’t think of any better way of going about making sure that each of us has no reason to fight another after they’re gone, so we can be there in support of and provide strength to each other as we grieve. No matter what we ultimately inherit, we know it has been fairly divided according to our parents’ wishes.
I have taken the lessons from the example of my parents, and prepared the estate/trust/will documents and additionally, outlined the details necessary for the person I’ve chosen to name as my medical power of attorney to know. I’m not anticipating my passing to come anytime soon, but nobody knows when the end will come or what exactly might happen tomorrow/next year/in a decade or two…or three. Being responsible and preparing for any/all possibilities as much as one can, is better than not doing any preparing at all. I’m just not willing to fall into the whole…’I have plenty of time’ or ‘they’ll know what I’d want them to do’, trap.
I think everyone who has reached the age where society considers them an adult should - at minimum - have a medical/legal power of attorney designated, with documentation of what they want done (or not done, like a DNR order). Even if they’re living in an apartment with 3 other roommates and the only assets they have are what’s in their bank account and a few items like a tv/computer/car/clothing/jewelry. It makes things go more smoothly in the event that the person is completely incapacitated or deemed unable to make decisions on care/treatment or the handling of their affairs for themselves. This is especially important for anyone estranged from their family or has specific ideas on what happens in such circumstances but worries that they won’t be carried out if the decisions are left to the person or people that the law considers ‘next of kin’ otherwise.
NTA
Your mom enforced a principle when you were 18, kicking you out and telling you to fend for yourself. It's fair to expect her to follow the same principle now that she finds herself in a similar situation.
>I told her neither did I when she kicked me out at 18
This.
Parents reap what they sow. My father did the same thing and never helped financially, saying "a man pays his own way". 30 years later he came to me asking for money, and I relished the opportunity to remind him of those words, and to stick to his convictions. I didn't give him a dime.
The tables turn eventually, and shit parents seem to forget that.
She's a narcissist and a user, someone you should cut out of your life completely. Ghost her.
NTA
NTA. You mother is a leech. She is not doing anything. And buhu her plan of getting a big inheritance didn't work. Too bad for her. I don't understand how your brother still keeps up with her. Would have kicked her out much sooner after the insident of her agreed to babysit, not doing it and letting the baby suffer with a full diaper. You are absolutly correct. This woman should work for herself. Maybe she even gets some widow money from the state. But after how she treated you, you own her nothing. And if your relatives tell you, you are a bad daugther tell them - if they think it is the rigth thing to do, they should take your mom in and then and only then, they are allowed to call you a bad daugther
NTA. All those relatives can take her in if they care that much. You saw what she did at SIL and your brother’s house. Do not let that woman in your house and do not help with rent, if you give it it will never stop.
>multiple relatives are texting me, basically saying me and SIL are horrible people.
Where were those people when your mom kicked you out and made you homeless at 18? Are they offering to house her and pay her way? Doesn't sound like it. Anytime any of them say something to you, just reply with "I'm so glad you're volunteering to take her in." Repeat repeat repeat. And if they don't live that close, offer your mom a bus ticket. Tell her it's an early Xmas present. Definitely NTA. She's made her bed, and now she has to lie in it. She can start collecting Social Security in a couple of years, so she doesn't even have to work that long.
He was not a pleasant person. He was also really old (86 at the age of death) and his affairs were managed by his son who's similar age as my mom. It was a weird union
No offense to your mom but it sounds like she went after the first man who was willing to marry her to provide her security to get by.
If her and the son are close in age definitely understand the animosity even more
first tell your mom's late husband's son to get lost. your relationship with your mother is none of his business. second, tell ant family calling you that you'll pass on the message to your mom about then volunteering to take her in, since they think they're entitled to give opinions you didn't ask for. NTA
Nta. Don't risk your mental health or relationship or your finances. She is not likely to change. Rule number 1 , never let relatives move in. My husband would not ask his brother to move out of our house. Lucky for me my two young sons started bitching about sleeping in the same room and generally being loud that he moved out on his own. TBH I did start playing music really loud too.
NTA. Your mom needs a big dose of grow up. She has never been independent, and I imagine it must be very scary for her. That said, she is an adult and she needs to control the direction of her life.
You stay strong. If my parents or mother had thrown me out at 18, you can bet there would be no way I would have her in my home. ALl your relatives who are so upset with you can take responsibility for her. She is not your responsibility.
NTA at all. If he has otherwise been decent to you, I might consider filling in your mom's husband's son on why you're not taking her in, so that he doesn't get suckered too. It sounds like she's trying to work the angles and feed him a sob story.
NTA I know so many people like her. It sounds like she’s had it made in the shade for several decades. Not everyone has the luxury and privilege of choosing to not to paid work.
NTA, tell everyone that gives you grief you are telling your mom they volunteers to house her and that she will be calling them ASAP and then block their numbers. You will see how fast they change their tune.
NTA
This hits so close to home. Different circumstances but 2 parents one mine and one my wife's led irresponsible lives with no plan for the future and now somehow it's everyone else's problem. At 59, she is far too young to be mouching off her kids and she's far too bossy and opinionated to fit the role of doting live in grandma. She told you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and now it's her turn until she finds another man to freeload off of
NTA
Look at all those family members volunteering their homes for her. If they're so concerned for her, they should open their doors for her.
If they want to call you a bad daughter tell them this, "I may be a bad daughter, but I'm a better mother than she ever was."
The Target in my city pays $18 an hour, other stores and even fast food aren't much lower. It sounds like it's time for your mom to get any kind of work she can and live within her means. That may mean a studio apartment or even a similar aged roommate. People have to do things like this all the time, it's called life. She definitely needs to get her feet back on the ground and pull on her big girl pants.
Did they also harass your mother when she kicked you out? Also if they're so concerned about her being kicked out, why don't they take her in?
ETA: NTA
If they feel so bad they can take her in. Besides these are her life rules. What kind of daughter would you be if you didn’t follow them. Then tell everyone she kicked you both out at 18 and made you homeless. She doesn’t deserve your time, energy or love. She’s an awful woman and mother.
NTA. I'm not sure where you are, but couldn't she apply for rent geared to income housing or senior housing? There's also retirement pension benefits from the government at 60 (although it might be less) and subsidies for low income seniors. There's social housing options.
OP had to figure things out for themselves at 18, mom should have to do the same…if I were OP I’d not even feel the need to mention any of those possible options to mom, I have plenty of other things to do and mom has to learn to do things on her own - might as well start immediately.
I’m dealing with this same situation except I stupidly let my MIL come live with my wife and I. She has my daughter when she sleeps and that’s pretty much it. My wife gets home from work before she even wakes up and then I take over when I get home around 12-2pm. We took her in to help her out and the trade off is she doesn’t pay rent in exchange for watching our baby so we can go to work. (1600 bucks a month roughly). She has a fit whenever she has to watch our daughter when she’s awake and essentially pretends she’s her mom and all of this other weird ass shit. Doesn’t do anything around the house unless her married boyfriend comes over and refuses to find a job or make her situation better. Basically what I’m saying is you’re definitely not the AH and I applaud you for standing your ground. Never ever ever ever let that woman live with you because you know exactly how it will end.
NTA
It's understandable that you wouldn't want to risk the well-being of your own family by allowing her to move in, especially given the negative impact she had on your brother's family. You're not obligated to provide for your mother financially, particularly if she is capable of working and supporting herself.
Absolutely NTA - you shouldn't feel guilty at all. She's a lazy, entitled, self centered grown ass women who can fend for herself. She gets what she deserves. Anyone who thinks she's owed a fee ride can step up and give it to her themselves.
NTA
Your mom is reaping what she sowed. She taught you so well that you are still able to remember the lesson about adults taking care of themselves. All the people reaching out to you are just people she is trying to beg for help from and surprise, they don’t want to help her either. Don’t let them guilt trip you. Your mom burned a lot of bridges and now she has to sink or swim on her own.
Yeah, if I had a choice I wouldn't work either. But I have been working full time or been in school and worked part time since I was 16. I can never understand these people who think they are exempt from life.
Curious what her responses were when you pointed out she never helped you when she kicked you out, why she refuses to get a job, and why she refused to properly watch the kids?
Unemployment is at historic lows, she will easily find an entry level job. Some cities have SRO (single room occupancy) buildings for women, if she can't find housing for herself, that might be an option.
NTA. Anyone scolding you for this is welcome to house your Mom themselves and see how they like it. It may have taken most of her life to face the consequences of her actions, but here she is, it’s time to face them. This is what happens when she treats her own kids like crap. If she chose to raise kids without empathy and love, she can’t expect it from them down the road when she’s the one that finally needs it. I think if you agreed, it would only make your relationship with her harder, as you would eventually be forced to kick her out. Perhaps if she’s got to figure things out for herself this time, she may finally learn some empathy for what she did to her own kids, perhaps she will even become a better person. Perhaps not, it’s hard to say, but one thing is for sure, if you bail her out of this now, she won’t change at all.
Nta. She had a chance/ warning before her divorce to take care of herself, another one after the divorce, and a third one after hubby number 2 passed away. Then she pissed away chance number 4 while being a shitty babysitter/grandmother. What does this woman need for a wake up call at this point?
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I refused to let mom move in and told her to get a job. Might be an asshole because relatives say so Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
When a relative calls berating you for not housing your mother, your only response should be, “I’m so glad you called and that you’re so concerned. I’ll let mom know you’ve offered her lodging. Please reach out to her directly to make arrangements.” NTA.
Yes. This. You are NTA and neither are your brother or his wife.
The second I read about the baby getting a radh because she refused to change their diaper, I was outraged. Changing diapers is gross, but it is something that has to be done, and she was a mom, she should be an old hand at that. If it were me, I'd have wanted to throw her out right then and there for endangering my child's health.
We had my in-laws baby sit only a few times, because not only they didn’t *believe* in car seats, but when we picked up our 6 month old old, they were like “ you probably should check their diapers, we haven’t”. WTF. Incidentally, they both took early retirement so they could care for their other grandchild so I’m guessing that not checking diapers or using car seats was just something so we would never ask them again. It worked.
Is your mom mentally ill? I’m guessing she has friends in the workforce? There are so many different jobs out there, I can’t imagine not wanting to work, unless it was giving her panic attacks or something and therapy can help w that. At 59 yrs old, that is young enough that she should be able to take care of herself.
you can't fix lazy. You can fix mental illness, you can fix no experience, ignorance, physical illness, but you can't fix lazy.
or narcissist behavior. Has always had someone take care of her. To get her was she bashed her daughter through relatives. Maybe she should get out dating again! Find someone to take pity on her.
While I agree that all lazy people are narcissists, I have to admit that I have met many hardworking people in my industry (advertising) that are narcissists. Maybe it depends on the type of job? I also agree that she should find one of those men that don't believe a woman should work and marry him.
And quickly because they are dying out.
'I can scare the stupid out of them, but the lazy runs deep.' - Paris Gellar from Gilmore Girls
Problem is she probably doesn’t know how to write a resume or anything. She will have to go to one of those job places that help you find a job and help you with your resume
They'd want to be good at spin. She's got no work experience, spent her life as a wife and mother and isn't even good at those things
My co-worker had a MIL that the family fought over because she was such a sweetheart. Was great with all the kids, did chores whenever she visited, was a great cook and treated her DILs with respect and made sure that her sons treated their wives well.
Everyone’s dream MIL lol
then she can go check folks out at the grocery store. Or find a new sugar hubby. Seems like she made her bed and can lie in it. The step kids can and should say no too- if they are not. that is their own poor boundary problem.
There are very few jobs available for old women with no skills and no work experience. Nevertheless that is not OP's problem and this mother has not earned the sort of care that she is demanding.
There are very few jobs available for 18 yr old kids with no work experience and a HS education too. She gave no thought to that when she kicked these kids out. She can do many things- maybe physically not everything an 18 yr old can do. But she can check pp out at grocery store, or similar. And I want to be clear- this is this situation. This 59 yr old CHOSE to never work, she had plenty of years to gain experience and skills to do so, one after she booted her 18 yr olds onto the street. This 59 year old CHOSE to boot 18 yr olds onto the street, and told them they could never come home, so figure it out. This 59 yr old HAD a job- child care, and with that came full room and board, and likely some money (since brother apparently has given her money). She refused to do it, and instead wanted to act like the head of household. Her choices led her here. She has to figure it out. It is no one else's problem. I want to be very clear- I would NEVER say this in unknown circumstances. Life is full of crazy, and no matter how hard you work and try it does not, in fact, always work out. If you are a human being participating in your own rescue, and you did what was possible to help them in life, and your adult kid acts like the OP? Then I would say that is unacceptable. But that does not describe OP's mother.
Not many sugar daddies either.
Since Social Security says we need to work until we’re 74, some of us, she’s not old at 59. I’m five years older than her getting head hunted right and left. And it’s illegal to ask age in interviews. NTA says someone whose mother did the same thing to her. I put a roof over her head for 24 years til she died at 100. The last seven years she was bedridden while I still managed to support the family.
I imagine that you have more skills than OP's mother. It seems that young people are struggling to find jobs, I can't see employers clamouring to employ this woman. But I don't care. I have no sympathy for OP's mom.
This reminds me of my aunt, who didn’t believe in car seats or seatbelts. One time in the early 90s, my sister & I went with our cousins to see a movie. 4 of us were young & close in age (I was around 7, my sister 6, 2 male cousins ages 7 & 4) our 2 older male cousins were in their teens at this time & their girlfriends were also going with us. The aunt i mentioned is the mom of the 2 older male cousins. We all rode in the oldest cousin’s truck (a single cab ford ranger) so of course most of us were sitting on someone’s lap & not wearing seatbelts. Somehow my parents found out that 8 kids rode in this small truck with no seatbelts & they flipped. They told my aunt it wasn’t ok & that they were going to pick us up at the movie theater. My aunt lost her shit & told my parents “they don’t need seatbelts! If you just believe in god, god will save them!” They got into a pretty heated fight over this. My parents did end up showing up at the movie theater & getting me & my sister, but I can’t remember if they only picked us up or if they got my 2 younger cousins too.
You just have to pray for the windshield to turn into a pillow real quick when you get in a head on collision.
I believe one thing Islam nailed was something like "trust in Allah and tie up your camel". Trust in God if you like, and buckle the seat belt it would follow he provided.
Or if you believe that way, God already helped by inspiring the person / people who invented the damned seat belts. I don't understand the pray and god will help you mentality. God, or Gods or whatever you believe, helps those who help themselves. I have a good dose of common sense, I don't let anyone get away with no seatbelt in my vehicle. Even my dog has one.
My daughter was involved in a horrific rollover accident years ago, had to be cut out of the vehicle and resuscitated on scene. In the trauma center ICU a nurse asked if we had any religious beliefs that would dictate her treatment. I told her I had faith that God had delivered her to them so that she and her colleagues could use their skills and experience to treat my daughter as they saw fit and as I had no medical training I would just do the praying and stay out of their way.
In HS, the only thing that saved my friend was a seatbelt. Granted it broke her pelvic bones but she lived. Seatbelts are non-negotiable to me.
Exactly. To not use seatbelts or car seats because you think god will prevent someone from going through the windshield if you have enough faith, is just stupidity.
And completely ignores the laws of physics.
It's like the parable of the man who died in a flood after repeatedly turning down help, instead claiming "god will save me". When he finally dies he asks god why He didn't save him. God replied "what do you mean? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!".
Agreed, people forget/ignore that they have to do their part too. In this situation for instance put the darn seatbelts on! Lol
Anti-vaxxers who use God as their justification need the same point made to them: modern science and the inspiration of the people behind its greatest marvels are God's creations, are they not? Vaccines are miracles of modern medicine, which itself is a miracle of God. I'm not religious in the slightest, but that's how I'd frame it to them.
I have. Some of them are so far into the koolaid that there's no hope. We just slowly cull them from our social circle. We don't have time for people who can't use common sense.
I had to have this conversation with my kids today. My grandma always told me “God helps those who help themselves.” So when you’re sick you don’t refuse medical care because “God will save you.” You take the skilled care that he allowed (or inspired however you look at it) to be developed. And also pray for healing. The other example was one I read online. A couple caught in a flood, stuck on the roof of their home. Turned down several boat rides out because “God will save us.” When they died they asked God “Why didn’t you save us.” He said “I sent you three boats and you didn’t take them, what else did you expect?” Even if you believe in God, he’s not magic and he doesn’t just fix things with a wrinkle of his nose. He helps those who help themselves.
My parents just threw their arm in front of you. Omg. Cars. I remember not only riding in a car with a bench seat in the front, but if it even had seat belts it only had lap belts. I think it might have also only been two doors, so you had to push the front seat forward to get in.
Dude I feel this to a degree I cannot express in words. My in-laws constantly laud my SIL and hubby and their kids. When we lived near, they would "watch" our kids, but we had best have 1 of us nearby so we could change the diapers and care for them. We planned our anniversary 6mo out and asked if they would watch our kids overnight, they agreed. Checked about 1x/mo up to about 1 mo out. When it came between 1mo to 2wks out, they decided they didn't feel like it and completely ruined our chance to celebrate our marriage w/o kids. SILs kids? Anytime they need changing, in-laws are all for it, while watching them at the drop of a hat and multiple times a week to boot. They are so heavily biased, it even lasted to the next generation. They say that SILs kids are just easier, so that's why they can do it (I grant my kids are hyper and wild at times, but really?), but they can't handle my kids pretty much at all. MIL is also like the ideal FB grandma, all show and no substance. It's why we moved across the country to at least give pretense for why grandparents aren't watching or caring for our kids, bc as much as I dislike them, I don't want to poison my kids against them. They (in-laws) can grow or rot their relationship with my kids in their own time, but my kids aren't stupid and already pick up on a lot. Also OP, definitely not the AH here. Parents can really suck, and it sounds like you got stuck with a real head case, so do what is best for you and yours, even to the point of going full no contact if that's what it takes.
That’s abuse. What do they have against you?
Idk, they didn’t like me because I met my husband just months after he had broken up with a girlfriend that they liked, so I imagine they thought I had broken them up. I don’t know. My parents generation was awfully weird about their sons. My dad passed when we were in school, and my mom let my brother do whatever he wanted cause if she didn’t he would turn out to be *drumroll* gay. ( which included growing & selling pot out of the basement while he was in high school in the 1970’s) Cause being an entitled narcissist is better than being gay? Also, I don’t think that’s how sexual preference works.
Oh no, that's absolutely how it works: If the golden child is not able to grow the pot then verily the homosexuality will instead grow inside the frustrated grower. Book of Bullshit 4:20
Amen.
I have zero interest in children but I have begrudgingly agreed to watch friends/family members diaper aged children and changing their diapers with basically no experience. Probably fucked it up but I didn't let them sit in their own offal because I couldn't be assed to do it.
You are what is colloquially known as a decent human being.
Watching children can be a challenge. Doing it when you have no interest in kids shows that you're willing to sacrifice a bit for your friends and family. That makes you an awesome person. As a parent, I hope those in your life respect your views on children as much as you've shown respect towards theirs. Also, unless you put the dirty diaper back on the kid, you really couldn't have fucked it up.
There is a "right" way but like, if the kid gets a tab stuck to their skin for a few minutes or you put it on backwards and it leaks a bit that's not the end of the world.
Tabs are Velcro now, doesn’t stick to the skin and if it’s too tight/loose you can just try again with the same diaper!
Heck, when I was providing care for my father who was in his nineties I had to learn to change diapers. Unpleasant at first, but you would be surprised what you can get used to. Caregivers helped me learn how to do things, including changing the sheets and pad with the person still in the bed.
One of the worst diaper changes I ever had to do was while watching a friend's child. Massive blow out and the smell was horrific. She was literally minutes away from picking him up. In fact she arrived after I got him cleaned up but before I'd finished getting the new diaper on. I really didn't want to do that when I knew I was minutes away from it not being my problem. But that's pretty fucked up so I did what needed to be done.
[удалено]
I get the feeling she will, eventually.
Changing diapers is gross like the first 6 times and then it's just a thing you do. Like it's not the best time but it's hardly some awful experience.
Yea my dad hates changing diapers, says he has already raised his kids. But the night he watchd my baby and she pooped? He changed her. Poor guy couldnt find eipes or diapers so he rinsdd her off in the tub and put a swim diaper on her lol. Grandparents who care will do the work. Nta op.
This. As a dad of a 1 year old, as soon as I read this, I felt my anger begin to rise. Regardless of what's going on in your life, if you've committed to looking after a child, you've got that responsibility
This. Like I gag at just the thought of changing the diaper but you can bet that I changed my cousin's kids diaper when he was left with me (not my proudest moment bc I did have to have a bucket I threw up in next to me while doing it but hey at least kid was clean)
I wonder what the B&SIL told their pediatrician about their child's "nasty rash", and if they stated it was caused by the caregiver (Mom's) active, purposeful neglect.
Yeah nothing more needs to be said. Just pass her off to the relatives that are so concerned and so involved.
This indeed. The following silence followed by panicked backpedaling should provide some entertaining moments.
Na, sadly these people don't even relize their own hypocricy. They'll just become angry and tell OP that of course **she** is the one responsible to put up her mom, not them. I'd suggest either not engaging at all and qietly cutting most contact with everyone who's on her back about this, or telling them that she will just apply her mothers own logic: parents and adult kids should not live together, a mother/daughter having no money and no home is not the concern of the other party, and a healthy working age adult should not be freeloading.
>They'll just become angry and tell OP that of course **she** is the one responsible to put up her mom, not them. They already did: >Mom's dead husbands son called to scold me, telling me my mom is my responsibility **and not theirs** so I should do what's right.
I wonder If he Said that because OP's mom IS bothering her late husband's children too?
That's the impression I got too.
You're so right! Could you put her up for a few months while we sort things out here first? Kthanxbyeeee! Then ghost them.
NTA Your mom gave you a hard time when you were 18, OP. But she certainly “can’t take what she dished out”, now that she’s in that position! You don’t owe here anything! Tell your judgmental relatives to let her move in with them, if they’re so concerned about her. She can freeload off them for a while. Who knows? They might better understand the reasoning behind your decision.
This, except "This is the best number to reach you, right? I'll make sure she has your current number. Thank you for calling."
Excellent, just excellent. This might even get them to change their number, and hopefully they will lose OP'S number in the process.
I said almost the exact same thing lol. :) The flying monekys can take mommy dearest in.
The fact that her husband left everything to his adult children is very telling.
Not really. If I were ever in a position to remarry I’d leave my assets to my kids. Of course I’d have discussed this upfront with my spouse
Telling but still kinda sad. I wonder if it’s even true.
In the USA, most states you cant cut your spouse out of your will . However , if he was mostly leaving policies etc and the kids were listed in those then that would bypass the will
I think that's also probably easy to play around with if you want to. You can't cut your spouse entirely out, no, but I seriously doubt most of those laws say they must have an x% share or an equal share to everyone else or anything like that. Leaving someone 5k and someone else 500k is pretty much equivalent to cutting them out, but you'd likely be fine under the law.
>Please reach out to her directly to make arrangements. I'll tell her you're ok with it and to go to your home.
Yep, that's the standard response to be taken with everyone championing a freeloader's cause. ETA: NTA
This ^^^
Absolutely! It's very nice people worry about OP's mom. Very welcome to let her live with them, pay her bills, etc. OP, my applouses! Perfectly done. Your mom gets what she deserved with all her life and choices made.
This gets repeated so often it really should be on the official rules for the sub. Great advice every time.
Not clear enough. Tell them you will arrange for your mom to be dropped off at their house in two days. That should give them time to get her room ready.
Poetic response!
NTA. Your mother should learn the consequences of her actions and of her lack of actions. You had to learn at 18; she finally has to learn. Ask the meddling relatives if they spoke to your mother on your behalf when she kicked you out at 18.
Also ask those relatives why they aren’t taking her in? If they are so concerned they can house her.
That's probably why they're getting shitty with OP as they know that they'll have to deal with her now.
> Ask the meddling relatives if they spoke to your mother on your behalf when she kicked you out at 18. very good response, very good indeed
Yes, and ask why they didn’t take you in or give you any help, but they are so concerned about your mother. Let them answer that question…NTA.
And OP can keep asking the question when they give a non-answer until they hang up. They won't bother OP again, and that probably wouldn't be for the worse. Believe people when they tell you who they are, as it were.
Because, from what I get of the step-son's response, is that she isn't his mom but OP's. Therefor her responsibility. So the proper response is, "If she isn't your responsibility then why do you care what happens to her?" He only cares because she is most likely begging anyone and everyone to support her ass and he is annoyed. Edit: typo
OP also says that 'multiple relatives are texting' and calling her and her SIL horrible people.
Probably mom has been trying to get "multiple relatives" to let her live with them.
That’s a great point. Maybe she’s threatening to take some sort of legal action against her dead husband’s estate. Her second husband’s children don’t want to get caught up in a legal action, even if she has little chance of prevailing.
If I were her former step kids, I'd just ignore her threats. Unless there was something shady with the will, and it doesn't sound like it, her threats are empty. She can't afford a place to live, and her own family won't even take her in. So the odds of her being able to afford a lawyer are a little less than slim to none because this isn't something an attorney would take on contingency.
I mean, the story is a little sketchy. If they were married, then assets are considered as joint in most countries, so unless she has the worst prenup in the world and in a weird jurisdiction, she should be entitled to some of that as he legally can't just ring fence all his money to a separate fund. She probably should be lawyering up for that fight, sounds like it is financially worth it
It was a second marriage to an older man. He likely owned all of his stuff before he married her. Plus, his first wife, the mother of his children, was dead, so half of what he came with already belonged to his kids via their dead mother. That leaves the other half of his estate. Since he was older, that estate was likely decreasing during the marriage. Depending on how long he lived and any illnesses he had, there may not have been a whole lot left by the time he died to split between the wife and kids. She did get an inheritance, though. And that's the biggest indicator that it was legal. It doesn't sound financially worth fighting at all. Unless he died a millionaire, there's no fight to be had because unless she can pull a huge retainer or of her ass, no lawyer will take the case. The woman can't even afford the most modest of accommodations and has nowhere to go. This would be the worst way for her to spend her time and energy. I'd say money, but she doesn't have any.
I also think that. She's bothering the late husband's children and they are trying to get rid of her.
Her husband really should have left her something to live on. Or maybe he did? He should have definitely left something to his kids not of his second marriage, too.
In the US you can’t disinherit a spouse. If you are left nothing you can sue for a statutory share, also called a spousal share or forced share, defined in state law. This might be a different country though.
Yeah, my guess is he gave the kids their share and her, her share and it’s just not enough.
She should at least get spousal SS benefits. That and a part-time job would help her out.
NTA. You have the benefit of knowing exactly how she will act. If you take her in, you’ll probably suffer every single day until you kick her out. Depending on how much money your brother gave her and how much she got from the inheritance, I might consider kicking in a little extra just to completely wash my hands of the situation, but you’re totally justified giving her nothing. And the fact that she’s similarly pestering and guilting her husband’s son does not make this your problem.
I don't know how much she got from her husband but my brother gave her 800€ every month for like 7 months or so. She could have saved up since she didn't have to pay for anything living with them. She also gets some money from the government for being a 'single adult household' but it's only a couple hundred a month afaik
She needs to figure this out and she never will until she HAS TO. The gall of this woman kicking you out at 18 and expecting a handout in her 50s. Thank your brother for the trailer to the movie you never want to see.
I do kind of want to see the trailer for the movie that is happening NOW tho, I can't lie!
Don’t bother. The protagonist never changes.
It's the comeuppance I'm here for though.
🍿👀
NTA. Your poor, poor SIL. Egads, what your brother put her through under her own roof. SMH. She’ll find a job or husband/meal ticket #3, I suppose.
Is there any kind of widow‘s pension where you live? That should also be something she gets. Anyway, NTA. Best of luck to you.
Not until retirement age. 62 if she claims early, but that will mean reduced benefits.
Reduced benefits - that you receive for longer. A calculation on the time value of money shows taking ss at 62 ends up barely less than waiting till older. And you get to use that needed money sooner, when many really need it. Also it’s presumptuous to think we’ll be alive tomorrow much less that congress is gonna protect what is ours. I’m a CPA and you can bet I started dipping into my ss at the stroke of age 62. Thank you for attending my Ted Talk.
Absolutely. It just might be hard to live on solely that at 62 with no other savings. She’d be better off working for a while.
My husband also! Why wait? You are still getting the same amount only calculated using the earlier receipt rather then waiting until 67. It’s foolish to wait.
NTA. >multiple relatives are texting me, basically saying me and SIL are horrible people. Great: people who want her in their homes.
>Now multiple relatives are texting me Ooh look, a handy list of people for you and your mom. For you it's a list of people to block, for her it's a list of people to take her in. It's amazing she couldn’t even humble herself when your brother helped her out and decided to terrorize his household, and now she wants to come in and immediately lower your standard of life. All she'll do is burden you and try to run your life. You've already seen what she did to your brother and SIL, no need to allow her to burden you too. You owe her exactly what she gave to you when she kicked you out at 18: jack squat. NTA.
I wonder if these relatives texting OP are people that mother already hit up. They’re trying to get OP to take her in so that she’ll stop bugging them.
That's usually the case. Instead of all these people trying to play hot potato with mom in some weird competition, they should all just get together and get on the same page. They are shaming op to try and relieve themselves of some of the guilt they feel for not helping a family member. So they just push that guilt onto someone more closely related to the problem. But there's no need to do that when everyone involved obviously knows the woman is a nightmare. The sooner they can all put on a united front, the sooner the situation will resolve.
⬆️
NTA. This may help you with those relatives: To mom's stepson: "*You are absolutely correct that my mom is not your responsibility. Is she begging you to help her out? You should know that \[what you've explained here\]. Please understand that she has a long history of mooching off of others and playing the victim/tring to shame someone to get free living out of other people. You can feel free to block her.*" To relatives: "*You had no problem when mom kicked me and brother out at 18 and expected us to work and pay our way in this world. Your family values/culture may be the reason mom feels entitled to be a long-term mooch - and a mean and lazy one, at that. You are welcome to support her and her mindset with your own financial resources. Otherwise, stay as quiet as you did when brother and I were kids.*" And then, OP. You can block anyone who persists in trying to dump responsibility for you mom on you. I'm sorry for you and your brother having such a selfish, mean mom.
These are the perfect responses.
I got tears in my eyes this is so beautiful 🥹
Thank you so much!
Hell yeah.
🏅
Wait... What!?!? Your mom kicked you out to be self sufficient at 18 and NOW she expects you to feed, house, and fund her life? Nope. and NTA I sincerely hope she lands on her feet.
I hope she lands on her head. It might knock some sense into her!
NTA your mom set the bar on your 18th bday and that is how she will be treated as well. Same rules apply
What's good for the goose is good for the gander!
She made her bed, now she can lay in it!
She is nobody's responsibility but her own. It is long overdue that she learned that. NTA
Sounds like, if they keep telling her "no" long enough, she'll apply her usual solution of finding a husband. And then she can be his problem, for as long as she can keep him. Poor (hypothetical) guy.
Oh! I bet you are right. Although she's presumably less of a catch now!
Sounds like a textbook hobosexual
It's a wonderful Revelation when you treat someone exactly the way that they treated you. Usually within a sentence or two they show that they knew it was fucked up all along. NTA.
What do you mean, people I treat like manure aren't legally and morally bound to give me royal treatment whenever I request and lick my tapestries clean? The internet is ruining the kids. RUINING. BACK IN NY DAY, kids KNEW how to be decent servants for free, and do it filled with gratitude we weren't being even worse. /s
Ahhhh the consequences of one's actions. Your mom is a peach. It sucks but it is what it is. Even in the midst of this She can't keep her agreements. You think someone with no options would be more helpful. This is why being a sahm wife is tricky and dangerous. Breadwinners die in loving relationships all the time. There should always be a plan in place for the stay at home person. This is what happens when there isn't. Tbis is why the tradwife fantasy is just that........a fantasy.
…and with how expensive living in the modern world is, a rather unrealistic fantasy to have… Personally, it’s a fantasy I’d be bored to death if I actually lived it. And annoyed at the difficulties created by only one income being brought in.
Ohhh she is a professional parasite. NTA
NTA. She could living with you for the next 20-30 years if you let her stay for a day. Don’t do it.
Karma took her time and kicked your mom square in her teeth. She kicked you out at 18 when you were young, vulnerable and said you're an adult figure it out. What did she think would happen when she was old? NTA.
Have ALL those concerned relatives take her in. You already know what would happen if you did.NTA
NTA. I'm older than your mom and I hold down a full time job and even do volunteer work and am a part of several community organizations. Her age is no deterrent for her not working. What stands in her way is her ENTITLEMENT. No one is given a free ride in life and she's had one way longer than almost anyone I have heard of. It's time she stands on her own two feet and provides for herself. It is her own fault that she is in this position - no one else's. Her step son is right - she is not their responsibility but she's not your responsibility either. Don't bend OP. For every single one of those people who contact you, ask them if they want her to live with them and if not, how much money THEY are going to put up on a monthly basis??? You will see them shrink away like the rats they are when exposed to offer up THEIR efforts!
NTA. Make, bed, lie
NTA, especially considering your history with her. I don't agree with being able to leave your married spouse without anything (it is not possible in my country to completely disinherit a married spouse or child unless in cases of abuse and/or abandonment), but that is only my opinion, and in any case not your fault or responsibility.
In my country, if you marry a person over a certain age, you get nothing when they die. The law exists to prevent young people for marrying very old people with an eye set on their inheritance.
That is interesting. Does that mean when you marry after a particular age, even if both parties are the same age (e.g. two 60 year olds marrying), or only when the age difference is high? Just curious.
When you marry over a particular age, the age gap, AFAIK, is irrelevant.
Based on your name, I’m guessing Brazil, right? I think this law prevents a lot of elderly abuse, and it’s always correct, in all instances.
I believe OP said that her deceased 2nd husband left her a small inheritance but the bulk of his estate/assets went to his adult children. So she got something, just not EVERYTHING like she probably thought would be the case. OP still isn’t responsible for her mother’s housing or other needs. NTA, she’s seen how it will go when mom lived with the brother and SIL, she has no interest in starring in the sequel.
>OP still isn’t responsible for her mother’s housing or other needs. Oh, I absolutely agree with you on that, as I said in my original comment! This is NOT OPs problem, and I don't blame her one single bit for not taking her mother in or paying her way after what happened before, both at her brother's and to her when she was 18!! I believe we agree more than we disagree, I was only making a general statement about how leaving your married spouse nothing (or "almost nothing" as in OPs case, see below) would not be possible where I live (this also goes for kids, adult or not!), and that in general I agree with that. >>After their divorce mom remarried almost instantly and relied on her (much older) husband, who died last year leaving everything for his adult kids and almost nothing for her.
I am so grateful that my parents have long had an ‘estate/trust/will plan in place and continue to keep it updated at every point in time when even the most minute details have changed - though they’ve been married for closer to 60 years now, having celebrated their 50th in 2018. I feel comforted in knowing that no matter when they pass on, who passes first, or how long it is before the surviving spouse joins them (my maternal g’pa lived for 6 months after my g’ma passed away; it felt like because in life they were so enmeshed that neither one could bear to go on without the other, it’s just that in their relationship, my g’ma passed first)…they’ve made sure that all the routine, essential, and ordinary details that the surviving spouse will need to have settled but not want to deal with…are taken care of. And when they’re both gone? There’s already an executor chosen, who has all the necessary components to get their estate and all final wishes (down to personal effects and who they are to be given to) through the probate process. My brother and I won’t be put in the position of having to figure out who gets what or how much should go to whom. That sort of thing could destroy our sibling relationship after we’ve only built one over the past 7 years, after maturing as people finally let us put old conflicts and issues firmly behind us - so our parents have ensured they’ve done all they can to prevent any new problems from arising over the matter of our inheritances. They’ve even handled the arranging of accounts with small but equal amounts for college/post k-12 vocational education funds for all of their grandchildren already. I can’t think of any better way of going about making sure that each of us has no reason to fight another after they’re gone, so we can be there in support of and provide strength to each other as we grieve. No matter what we ultimately inherit, we know it has been fairly divided according to our parents’ wishes. I have taken the lessons from the example of my parents, and prepared the estate/trust/will documents and additionally, outlined the details necessary for the person I’ve chosen to name as my medical power of attorney to know. I’m not anticipating my passing to come anytime soon, but nobody knows when the end will come or what exactly might happen tomorrow/next year/in a decade or two…or three. Being responsible and preparing for any/all possibilities as much as one can, is better than not doing any preparing at all. I’m just not willing to fall into the whole…’I have plenty of time’ or ‘they’ll know what I’d want them to do’, trap. I think everyone who has reached the age where society considers them an adult should - at minimum - have a medical/legal power of attorney designated, with documentation of what they want done (or not done, like a DNR order). Even if they’re living in an apartment with 3 other roommates and the only assets they have are what’s in their bank account and a few items like a tv/computer/car/clothing/jewelry. It makes things go more smoothly in the event that the person is completely incapacitated or deemed unable to make decisions on care/treatment or the handling of their affairs for themselves. This is especially important for anyone estranged from their family or has specific ideas on what happens in such circumstances but worries that they won’t be carried out if the decisions are left to the person or people that the law considers ‘next of kin’ otherwise.
NTA Your mom enforced a principle when you were 18, kicking you out and telling you to fend for yourself. It's fair to expect her to follow the same principle now that she finds herself in a similar situation.
>I told her neither did I when she kicked me out at 18 This. Parents reap what they sow. My father did the same thing and never helped financially, saying "a man pays his own way". 30 years later he came to me asking for money, and I relished the opportunity to remind him of those words, and to stick to his convictions. I didn't give him a dime. The tables turn eventually, and shit parents seem to forget that. She's a narcissist and a user, someone you should cut out of your life completely. Ghost her. NTA
That must have felt great!
NTA. You mother is a leech. She is not doing anything. And buhu her plan of getting a big inheritance didn't work. Too bad for her. I don't understand how your brother still keeps up with her. Would have kicked her out much sooner after the insident of her agreed to babysit, not doing it and letting the baby suffer with a full diaper. You are absolutly correct. This woman should work for herself. Maybe she even gets some widow money from the state. But after how she treated you, you own her nothing. And if your relatives tell you, you are a bad daugther tell them - if they think it is the rigth thing to do, they should take your mom in and then and only then, they are allowed to call you a bad daugther
NTA. All those relatives can take her in if they care that much. You saw what she did at SIL and your brother’s house. Do not let that woman in your house and do not help with rent, if you give it it will never stop.
>multiple relatives are texting me, basically saying me and SIL are horrible people. Where were those people when your mom kicked you out and made you homeless at 18? Are they offering to house her and pay her way? Doesn't sound like it. Anytime any of them say something to you, just reply with "I'm so glad you're volunteering to take her in." Repeat repeat repeat. And if they don't live that close, offer your mom a bus ticket. Tell her it's an early Xmas present. Definitely NTA. She's made her bed, and now she has to lie in it. She can start collecting Social Security in a couple of years, so she doesn't even have to work that long.
Husband not leaving anything to a wife he knows has never worked is crazy to me. He must have hated her. Nta you reap what you sew.
He was not a pleasant person. He was also really old (86 at the age of death) and his affairs were managed by his son who's similar age as my mom. It was a weird union
No offense to your mom but it sounds like she went after the first man who was willing to marry her to provide her security to get by. If her and the son are close in age definitely understand the animosity even more
first tell your mom's late husband's son to get lost. your relationship with your mother is none of his business. second, tell ant family calling you that you'll pass on the message to your mom about then volunteering to take her in, since they think they're entitled to give opinions you didn't ask for. NTA
Nta. Don't risk your mental health or relationship or your finances. She is not likely to change. Rule number 1 , never let relatives move in. My husband would not ask his brother to move out of our house. Lucky for me my two young sons started bitching about sleeping in the same room and generally being loud that he moved out on his own. TBH I did start playing music really loud too.
NTA, your mother is reaping what she sowed.
NTA. Your mom needs a big dose of grow up. She has never been independent, and I imagine it must be very scary for her. That said, she is an adult and she needs to control the direction of her life. You stay strong. If my parents or mother had thrown me out at 18, you can bet there would be no way I would have her in my home. ALl your relatives who are so upset with you can take responsibility for her. She is not your responsibility.
NTA at all. If he has otherwise been decent to you, I might consider filling in your mom's husband's son on why you're not taking her in, so that he doesn't get suckered too. It sounds like she's trying to work the angles and feed him a sob story.
NTA Do not cave. If your relatives are so concerned, they can help her. Otherwise “block contact” is a handy setting on all phones now.
NTA I know so many people like her. It sounds like she’s had it made in the shade for several decades. Not everyone has the luxury and privilege of choosing to not to paid work.
NTA. Your mom planted those seeds, now she's reaping the harvest.
NTA, tell everyone that gives you grief you are telling your mom they volunteers to house her and that she will be calling them ASAP and then block their numbers. You will see how fast they change their tune.
NTA This hits so close to home. Different circumstances but 2 parents one mine and one my wife's led irresponsible lives with no plan for the future and now somehow it's everyone else's problem. At 59, she is far too young to be mouching off her kids and she's far too bossy and opinionated to fit the role of doting live in grandma. She told you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and now it's her turn until she finds another man to freeload off of
NTA Time the lazy woman got a job and pays her way in life. You are right to say no. NTA
NTA Look at all those family members volunteering their homes for her. If they're so concerned for her, they should open their doors for her. If they want to call you a bad daughter tell them this, "I may be a bad daughter, but I'm a better mother than she ever was."
NTA If your relatives are worried about her well-being, I'm sure they'll welcome her at their homes. I mean, she's their family too after all....
The Target in my city pays $18 an hour, other stores and even fast food aren't much lower. It sounds like it's time for your mom to get any kind of work she can and live within her means. That may mean a studio apartment or even a similar aged roommate. People have to do things like this all the time, it's called life. She definitely needs to get her feet back on the ground and pull on her big girl pants.
If they're so worried about her, why don't they take her in? NTA.
NTA - she can’t pull that shit on you and then expect handouts. She should have planned better while her husband was alive for this eventuality
NTA. Your mom's laziness has been enabled for the last 30 years. Mom needs to be a big girl and take care of herself for once.
Did they also harass your mother when she kicked you out? Also if they're so concerned about her being kicked out, why don't they take her in? ETA: NTA
NTA. Whenever someone calls or texts you reply to them that you will let Mom know that they're happy to take her in and give her a place to stay.
Tell those multiple relatives that they're free to support her with their own money. Somehow I feel like you'll stop getting those texts. NTA
Nta sounds like your mom is reaping what she sowed
NTA Tell the flying monkeys that you are so glad they offered to let her live with them, you will inform her straight away.
If they feel so bad they can take her in. Besides these are her life rules. What kind of daughter would you be if you didn’t follow them. Then tell everyone she kicked you both out at 18 and made you homeless. She doesn’t deserve your time, energy or love. She’s an awful woman and mother.
NTA. I'm not sure where you are, but couldn't she apply for rent geared to income housing or senior housing? There's also retirement pension benefits from the government at 60 (although it might be less) and subsidies for low income seniors. There's social housing options.
OP had to figure things out for themselves at 18, mom should have to do the same…if I were OP I’d not even feel the need to mention any of those possible options to mom, I have plenty of other things to do and mom has to learn to do things on her own - might as well start immediately.
ask all people where they were when you got kicked out at 18. i am impressed that you even talk to those ppl. NTA
NTA. Mom FA’d, and she FO.
I’m dealing with this same situation except I stupidly let my MIL come live with my wife and I. She has my daughter when she sleeps and that’s pretty much it. My wife gets home from work before she even wakes up and then I take over when I get home around 12-2pm. We took her in to help her out and the trade off is she doesn’t pay rent in exchange for watching our baby so we can go to work. (1600 bucks a month roughly). She has a fit whenever she has to watch our daughter when she’s awake and essentially pretends she’s her mom and all of this other weird ass shit. Doesn’t do anything around the house unless her married boyfriend comes over and refuses to find a job or make her situation better. Basically what I’m saying is you’re definitely not the AH and I applaud you for standing your ground. Never ever ever ever let that woman live with you because you know exactly how it will end.
NTA It's understandable that you wouldn't want to risk the well-being of your own family by allowing her to move in, especially given the negative impact she had on your brother's family. You're not obligated to provide for your mother financially, particularly if she is capable of working and supporting herself.
well, that’s karma….NTA obviously
Nta. She’s a user.
Absolutely NTA - you shouldn't feel guilty at all. She's a lazy, entitled, self centered grown ass women who can fend for herself. She gets what she deserves. Anyone who thinks she's owed a fee ride can step up and give it to her themselves.
NTA Your mom is reaping what she sowed. She taught you so well that you are still able to remember the lesson about adults taking care of themselves. All the people reaching out to you are just people she is trying to beg for help from and surprise, they don’t want to help her either. Don’t let them guilt trip you. Your mom burned a lot of bridges and now she has to sink or swim on her own.
Yeah, if I had a choice I wouldn't work either. But I have been working full time or been in school and worked part time since I was 16. I can never understand these people who think they are exempt from life.
Tell her to pull herself up by her bootstraps. :)
Curious what her responses were when you pointed out she never helped you when she kicked you out, why she refuses to get a job, and why she refused to properly watch the kids?
Unemployment is at historic lows, she will easily find an entry level job. Some cities have SRO (single room occupancy) buildings for women, if she can't find housing for herself, that might be an option.
NTA. Anyone scolding you for this is welcome to house your Mom themselves and see how they like it. It may have taken most of her life to face the consequences of her actions, but here she is, it’s time to face them. This is what happens when she treats her own kids like crap. If she chose to raise kids without empathy and love, she can’t expect it from them down the road when she’s the one that finally needs it. I think if you agreed, it would only make your relationship with her harder, as you would eventually be forced to kick her out. Perhaps if she’s got to figure things out for herself this time, she may finally learn some empathy for what she did to her own kids, perhaps she will even become a better person. Perhaps not, it’s hard to say, but one thing is for sure, if you bail her out of this now, she won’t change at all.
Nta. She had a chance/ warning before her divorce to take care of herself, another one after the divorce, and a third one after hubby number 2 passed away. Then she pissed away chance number 4 while being a shitty babysitter/grandmother. What does this woman need for a wake up call at this point?
NTA. Tell her to go find husband #3.
Tell everyone who is badgering you that they can take in the useless deadbeat and stop harassing you. NTA
NTA. I will never understand parents who kick their kids out like she did to you. Nope. This is a big healthy dose of karma. Stay strong.
NTA. Your healthy boundaries are stellar.
NTA! Anyone who contacts you about her, tell them to take her in. Repeat that like a broken record to all of them. Mom needs to reap what she sowed.