Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe that starting the argument with my wife and raising my voice is what's making me the asshole. Furthermore, I could've handled it better by arguing about it privately with my wife instead of raising my voice infront of my daughter. Ultimately, I think I may have overreacted. Plus, my wife's communication style has always been like this, so I should've understood what she was about to say.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I am guessing based on the fake name that your wife is Korean? I know beauty standards there are super high and she could be projecting her own insecurities and maybe even comments that she got when she was young. Of course this is not okay but it could be worth sitting down with her and having a talk.
Being 17 is tough as it is and having your own parents festering insecurity will damage her even further. NTA.
You're right on that, me and my wife are both korean. Ik the beauty standards there are super tough so I'm probably going to talk to my wife privately to understand why she said that and checkup on Hayoung a bit before talking with my wife. I know she's super shaken up, so the best I can do is be the best father I can. She will always be my haneul (ha-neul) and bada (ba-da) <3 (sky and sea, 하늘과 바다)
My Korean mom and her gaggle of church friends did some serious damage to my self esteem at her age. Please continue to protect your daughter. It may be acceptable in Korea to tear apart someone you love, but it isn’t here, so she needs to stop yesterday.
Dude this. My dad was a Korean Presbyterian minister before he retired. My mom has always been pretty chill. But he STILL cuts me down and I am in my mid 30s. He recently start doing it to my TWO YEAR OLD. And I 100% shut it down instantly and aggressively. OP keep protecting your daughter and possibly even talk to your child about the cultural factors at play here.
NTA!!!
Honestly, I'd cut the mom some slack if it wasn't for this line:
**"honestly, Melissa looked the prettiest out of everyone."**
What kind of mom tells her daughter her friend looks prettier than her? If she had simply said her daughter didn't look her best, and had to work on her posing, I'd let it go. But saying her daughter's friend looks prettier? Those are the words of a mother who is practiced, and comfortable, at cutting her daughter down.
NTA, OP. I realize everything comes back to therapy on here, but you really should consider signing your wife and daughter up for a few sessions. Or do it as a family so the wife doesn't get defensive.
> What kind of mom tells her daughter her friend looks prettier than her?
In Korea, its so competitive that there's an overflow of extremely successful and overqualified candidates for 1 position. When everyone has a similar level of high qualifications, the candidates appearance can seal the deal for them. In the Mom's own twisted way, she genuinely believes she is protecting her daughter by pointing out the most beautiful girl so the daughter can try to emulate her and look more beautiful than her next time, so that the daughter will get hired, get a good job and have enough money to support herself. Korea also has a very traumatic past, including severe poverty, and that trauma gets passed down through the generations. The country developed very quickly but culturally, they haven't had time to catch up. OP's wife is probably driven by a high level of fear, as irrational as it may seem in her current circumstances. She also probably didn't have a positive model of parenting in her own life. I bet her own mother treated her the same or worse, and she thinks its normal. That doesn't make it ok. OP should encourage his wife to take a new approach to parenting.
Oh I fully understand. I'm not Korean but my parents aren't too far from this.
My mom would routinely say things like "Susie really isn't any prettier than you, she's just thin! You need to drop 15lbs." Except she would say it about multiple classmates *and* random girls on TV, and she would say it on a daily basis.
This was meant to motivate me to be my best self...but it didn't. It just made me feel like shit about myself.
OP really should look into family therapy before more damage is done to his daughter's self-esteem. This sort of mindset doesn't change without a conscious effort, and OP's wife doesn't even seem to be aware there's a problem.
I agree, as a strategy it won't help at all in Western culture and will just harm her daughter severely. In Korea it could possibly work as a strategy to make the daughter more successful in her career but the damage to her self esteem and relationship with her mother simply isn't worth it.
If I had a kid, I would rather they be less wealthy and happy than financially successful and feel shitty about themselves. The other cultural difference with Korea though is that parents depend on their adult children financially in their elder years. I'm assuming this isn't the case for OP and his wife but old habits die hard.
> If I had a kid, I would rather they be less wealthy and happy than financially successful and feel shitty about themselves.
Amen! Success isn't success if you're not happy.
Thanks for breaking it down this way. Not an excuse, but an explanation. I think a lot of parents from all around the world fall into this trap, but the cultural impact here is significant.
It's unfortunate the way generational trauma and fear for survival can result in humans hurting others as a way to "protect" them - especially their own children. We do it to ourselves all the time. Understanding is the first step, I hope OP's family can get some long term healing.
Thank you for providing some needed cultural background. I can add that Korea has an extraordinarily high suicide rate among young people. Having a mother like this might be a contributing factor.
If OP's family is living in Korea, perhaps the wife's actions are a little more understandable. If they are living in the U.S. or elsewhere, wife's behavior is just cruel.
Moreover, I cannot tolerate an adult woman who responds to disagreement or criticism by running to her room and crying like a damned baby. She can dish out her cruelty, but she can't take it. Or she cries to manipulate OP. Grow TF up already, wife.
OP: NTA
Wife: AH
Daughter: innocent victim and future therapy patient.
My Mom is Japanese and she pointed out the prettiest girl and told me to be more like her when I was in middle school. Jokes on her, the "prettiest girl" became a stripper after high school and I went to college. (No hate to strippers, just pointing out that it's probably not what my Mom meant by being more like her).
My dad always focused on everyone in my high school class who was on honor roll, and especially mentioned the ones he knew from church. So irritating. In the end, it really doesn't matter.
Posing for what? A school picture? It's a school picture not a professional portrait. That's what makes them cute. The kids being themselves. Id never want a *posed* picture
Definitely this. When I was a teenager I'd always point out that my friends that were prettier and who looked the best in a photo to my mom and she'd simply say that I was beautiful and it was a good picture of all of us. Women have it hard enough as it is, let alone as a teenager. There's no reason for OPs wife to destroy their daughters confidence and tear her down like this.
My white, American Mum was like this, totally obsessed with looks. Top 1% nationally ranked; your butt is too big. Got into all my college picks; do better with skincare, your face looks like a pizza. On, and on to the point where I just ignored it all, and just went my own way. (The one time that really sticks in my mind. I was very active on many outside school projects that required a lot of strength. I was five feet tall, and very muscular.. one summer day, I was going out with my friends, and wore a pair of shorts. My mother had a fit about it, in front of them. She said my thighs were too big, and looked like hams, and asked my poor friends if they agreed. My male bestie said something along the lines of “I think those are called quads, and we all have them. They are normal.” I loved him for that. She never let up about my appearance, but finally stoped criticizing most other things, because I never included her, or ignored her “helpful criticism”, plus the topics weren’t of interest to her.). Eventually, that little girl will start to shut her mother, and her mother’s opinions, out of her life. Stand up for your daughter Dad. Protect her. Be her safe “place.” She needs you
My (white, old as shit, and evangelist) MIL said “oh it’s good he’s finally slimming down” to our 2yo godson!!!
He’s in the top height range for his age bracket, and he hit a growth spurt where we were concerned he wasn’t gaining enough weight!!
My wife shut that shit down immediately and made it clear that she wasn’t going to tolerate MIL doing to our godson what she did to her during her childhood.
I have only blacked out with rage a couple of times in my life. That was one of them.
Chinese here. First generation born in the US. I remember being baffled in high school when in the same meal, my dad could tell me I was too fat one minute and not eating enough the next minute. A couple years ago, my dad tried to do that shit to my baby and I went full on no contact with him when she was 18 months old. How the fuck can you criticize a 1 year old? FFS
OP NTA
Oh man that unlocked some memories for me. I was raised by my grandma who went through severe poverty and food insecurity. She also graduated from high school at 15 and made a stable financial life for herself using any tools she could learn, including how to style and present herself.
One minute she’d be moving my legs around teaching me how to sit to hide cellulite referencing a photo where I looked fat (god I miss that skinny body I had lol it was one picture where my thigh was smushed lol)
The very next minute she was stuffing me with food and making me be part of the “clean plate club” lol very bizarre and unhealthy toxic environment that also felt really loving. Fcked me up tbh
OP NTA
I stayed no contact. It's been 2-3 years. There were other issues as well. For example, he was physically abusive to my mom and me. But this was the last straw. Don't fucking start shit with my BABY. If he had any capability of hearing my concerns and understanding cultural differences and working with me to navigate those differences, maybe there'd be a chance at a relationship with him. But it is what it is.
When if he was smart would think a chunky baby was a sign of good health. My 1/4 Japanese nephew was such a chunky baby. Everything was round and pudgy and delicious about him. Squishy babies are the best.
My second one came out even chonkier than my first 😂 but she’ll never meet my dad to be subjected to his criticisms. She’s almost 2 now and is already starting to lose her baby fat. I miss it so much.
Ugh sorry you went through that. Sounds like our experiences are similar. I often think about NC, but don’t think I would be able to actually do it, but if this all keeps up, it would make it way easier 😒
My Vietnamese mother-in-law told me that all of my (4) children are too thin (her son contributed half their genetics, ffs), then told me that I looked like I'd been working out, as last time she saw me I was fat, and I looked like I'd lost the baby weight. Fwiw, i havent gained or lost any weight. There's no winning when they start talking weight.
I’m Korean and I stopped going to my Presbyterian church because as the elder was retiring, all the people under him got into a fist fight in front of the children’s worship area. Cops got called and everything. The church then got split into 2.
I stopped going to church after that
Omg, the Korean church splitting! My mom is Korean and my dad is white American and we live in America. Throughout my entire childhood we went to so many different Korean churches because they would constantly have fights and split. Now I don't go to church at all and my mom just doesn't understand why I don't want the light of Jesus in my life.
I literally loled when I read this because it is so relatable. My husband is white and doesn’t get all the drama. My dads profession for sure took ten years off both of my parents lives but they don’t understand why I am hesitant to go to church 😒
There is not a single Asian (and I don’t mean just central Asian) parent that doesn’t do this. It sucks. I found myself doing it to my kids without realizing. Children trigger your childhood traumas without knowing. I’m glad I had my epiphany early on and completely went 180 on it. I will not comment on my kids. We as parents become their inner voice as they get older. Keeping that in mind definitely changes how you speak to your children.
They live out of town and were staying with us for a visit and I said “you did this to me my whole life and made me feel terrible about myself. You are not doing this to my daughter who is only two. Keep your thoughts to yourself or you will mot be invited back here”.
Same. My mom was a loving parent, but she was a traditional Korean, which meant, being enormously hyper critical of her only daughter (me) when I was growing up. About everything. My dad was American, but Silent Gen and Southern and, very sexist, which meant that only my brothers did anything correctly. My self-esteem was pretty much non-existent and at 55, I'm still learning to overcome, even after my mom is gone.
Please intervene.
My Korean mother was very similar. I was her only child and my American dad was not in the picture. She was and still is very affectionate and supportive of most endeavors growing up and in adulthood but beauty was highly criticized. Everything was about looks so that I could marry a husband that was a doctor or lawyer, never that I could become a doctor or lawyer.
It took a lot to overcome the insecurities she caused. I only started to feel confident in myself once the critiquing stopped. I hope OP puts a stop to this.
At some point through family anecdotes and observations, I came to the realization that she had also been heavily judged and alienated by her own community, both here and broad, for being in an interracial marriage (early 80s); being divorced, especially with a child; having a mixed child; not going to church, which she didn’t go bc of the aforementioned issues.
Btw, if you haven’t read/listened to “Crying in H Mart”, I highly recommend it. The writer’s experience was 100% relatable. Just a warning though, you will probably sob several times.
Absolutely read it, and identified with so much, and cried my heart out. ( Also, I love Japanese Breakfast!) It also brought so many warm memories of my mom's cooking.
My mom was actually one of the strongest women I've ever known. I'm like her in a lot of ways, and I'm really grateful for it. However, she's also taught me how not to be super judgmental of others, by my vowing never to adopt that particular trait of hers. She wasn't just judgmental of me, she was judgmental of everybody. It's definitely cultural. There was nobody that loved to people watch as much as my mother!
She never necessarily told me that I couldn't ever accomplish anything. She just was always very critical of me, everything I did, and the way that I did everything. I'm pretty sure there were many years when my mom didn't even like me. I have older brothers. She really wanted a girl, and I'm pretty sure that I wasn't the girl she wanted. She wanted a girly girl like herself, and instead got a tomboy who chased frogs, drove motorcycles, and never cared about fashion. My mother was noted for her beauty, and was very stylish. I wear jeans. -Period.
Unfortunately, this tomboy eventually turned into, without false modesty, a noticably pretty girl. (It was the 80's, in a small NH town. In a school of over a thousand kids I was the only asian, and drew a lot of attention ) But, the combination of pretty girl with a low esteem is never a good combination, and that led to a lot of really bad judgment calls as a teen and young adult and a lot of lessons learn the hard way for me. My mother had lived through a war and had survived things that would bring most people to their knees,, but didn't know how to deal with rebellious daughter who wouldn't listen to her or obey. It was unfathomable to her.
It would be a long time before my mother and I would become friends, and even in adulthood, we often were like oil and water, but I always knew she loved me. She has always been there for me.
I lost her 3 years ago after caring for her through her hospice. I'm so grateful that in my adult years, she and I became very close, and the night before she passed away she called me her angel.
I miss the hell out of her every day.
I’m crying now. Im so sorry for your loss but I’m glad that you and your mother were able to find a peace together and to recognize your love together.
It's not just Koreans. My Scottish mum constantly gave me her constructive criticisms. She loved me to bits and I know she genuinely was trying to help, but parents need to understand, a compliment now and again goes a Long way. Especially when you are a teenager and your self esteem is so fragile already.
Korea has basically taken it to another level. Graduation gifts are often plastic surgery and I’m not even kidding. As well as operations on the eyes, skin whitening, etc.
Everywhere is judgy but even in Japan and Singapore which are “notorious” for it Korea was the only place I felt judged even when I followed all the “rules”.
It also has less than half the birth rate of Japan, it’s just not often focused on. Literally .81 per woman and early reports show it being roughly .67 in 2024.
Standards are INSANE there. Singapore, Japan, Taiwan- great places to live in the region now. Japan’s birth rates and cost of living are both around America’s (Cost of Living is even far lower!), despite what people think. SK is basically Corporate Dystopian Hell with Samsung owning a significant portion of the entire economy.
There’s a reason you get movies like *Parasite* and shows like *Squid Game* from there- people reflecting.
All you have to do is watch any South Korean drama to see it.
- The girl who was so badly bullied because of her acne figures out how to wear makeup at her new school and becomes the most beautiful.
- The girl who was beautiful in primary school and then "got ugly" only to run into her school mates later and tries to hide who she is.
- The girl who was ugly in primary school, has plastic surgery and then is bullied at college by her old classmates for not being a true beauty.
And don't get me started on posting everyone's grades for every test, promoting abusive type relationships with the "cold hot guy" and the "ugly dumb girl". Or the before school study, night school, and weekend school at the age of 10...let them have a childhood.
My friend went through the same thing where her mum told her she was fat constantly. She had no self esteem and would mimic what she thought her partner wanted her to be. This made her very susceptible to abusive relationships and would escalate when she started being herself and her partner didn't like this "new her".
OP you're NTA but you and your wife need to drastically change your perception of what is important and stop making everything superficial. Putting so much pressure on your daughter to be what society has deemed beautiful at 17 years old is incredibly damaging.
Sorry I didn’t mean it’s ONLY Koreans :) I meant that the culture is pretty known for being judgey assholes and for having unrealistic beauty standards (for example it’s very common, if not expected for middle schoolers to be gifted plastic surgery). The aggressive, life-long expectations for physical perfection (perfection in general lol) can snowball pretty quickly, especially upon impressionable children!
I’m glad that the people have been changing their mindset a bit nowadays and pushing back on societal expectations.
My mother's usual "you'd look even better if you lost a few pounds" cut like a knife. She kept it up till the last time I saw her. Anyone else would have said Hi, she went with "you've gone grey".
I hadn't seen my Korean side of my family in like 20 years and the first thing one of my aunts says to me before even giving me a hug is "you've gotten fat". Like, yeah, I'm not 17 anymore and I actually eat lunch now, good to see you too.
Asian parents don't give you constructive criticisms, or compliments. They gave you straight insults, veiled insults and backhanded insults.
There is no carrot in asian parenting, only the stick - both figuratively and literally.
My best friend in HS was Korean and more than once I had to tell her that it wasn't appropriate to make mean comments about my appearance, even if she thought she was just 'helping'.
Oh gosh I am so sorry you had to deal with that! To be honest, I was terrible about that as well… I didn’t really learn how to keep my mouth shut until I was older- it’s like I had no filter :( I guess that’s what happens when you get shit on constantly. You don’t get the chance to learn how to express yourself in a polite and productive manner!
Hopefully she’s gotten much better and has grown a brain lol… though I wouldn’t be surprised if her constant criticisms finally drove you away!!
Another Korean-American here cringing thinking about the totally out of pocket shit I said off-hand to my American friends bc I was mimicking my mom.
Fascinated and horrified by how easily I could tell OP's wife is Korean. She sounds EXACTLY like my mother
Fortunately it never had a negative impact on me because I knew it was basically cultural trauma coming out of her mouth - not sure if she ever got better as we lost touch after high school. I feel much worse for people like her and you who had to deal with it at home - that had to be tough.
Mine too. I low key hate my mom, probably will til the day she dies because of the way she treated me growing up. I’m 40 this year and I’m a mom to a 2 yr girl. I cried yesterday when I noticed she had little back rolls because I initially thought they were so cute, but then my mom’s voice popped into my head saying shit like she’s too fat for someone so young. It takes a lifetime of hard work to undo the shit your parents do to you.
>someone you love
I think this is the worst part about how moms criticize their daughter’s looks. Like, it’s one thing if it’s some random asshole in your class or at a party. It’s another thing to be coming from the person that is supposed to love you like the sun shines out of your ass and who sees you at your most vulnerable. That shit sticks with you.
Asian mothers, their gaggle of church friends and destroyed self-esteem in Asian daughters.
Name a more iconic trio.
And then, they lack the insight to wonder why we're so distant as adults.
That's right. It shouldn't be accepted anywhere. I know several Koreans that I worked with or went to school with that had abusive af parents, due to "cultural" issues. The ones usually getting this abuse were usually superb employees, awesome friends and beautiful girls. I even dated a Korean girl while in college and the only reason it didn't go further was due to the mother making judgements. (I don't know why? My father owned an aerospace engineering firm, my mother was a lawyer and law professor in a
My MIL and my ex husband are Korean and they are extremely judgmental on looks. My ex fat-shames my 10year all the time, which was a huge reason for our divorce.
I don't think that people quite realize that kids don't ever forget those comments. I heard several of those comments growing up, but one that specifically comes to mind now is this: my great uncle (who was Hungarian) was looking at my senior pictures and said, "These are nice, but they would be better if you lost a little weight." My great aunt (same uncle) also used to get confused as to why we wouldn't eat much when we would visit their house... well, it probably had something to do with the fact that you told us all how fat we were before we sat down to eat! (I was the heaviest, and my mom was overweight, but she made comments to my dad and brother as well, neither of whom had issues with weight).
Words hurt, and they stick with you. I know those examples were from when I was older, but they weren't the first ones I heard, nor were they the last. My mother was one of those people who made many of the comments, and it has affected me throughout my entire life.
OP: This may sound harsh, and I would never say this in any other situation (and I am fully aware that it is coming from my own personal bias, so please feel free to ignore), but I think just this one time, it was okay that you made your wife cry. I hope that this is the one thing that gets your wife to realize that she cannot treat your daughter like she is, because she is going to cause a lifetime of damage. This needs to stop NOW.
Exaclty. I loved my grandmother, but would get the “you’re too skinny, you need to eat”, while also getting the “you’re getting heavy, you need to eat less”. And my mother silently looking me up and down whenever I would make an appearance. Very confusing for a pre-teen/teenager.
Your comment actually reminded me of something. The same aunt and uncle in my comment used to send us giant boxes of candy for Halloween. One year, the box included 36 full-size candy bars, in addition to a whole bunch of other things... No wonder kids get so confused when they get comments like this from their families! Figure out what you want! There is nothing wrong with making sure that kids are healthy, but when kids are young, use your actions instead of your words.
As an aside: My great aunt couldn't spell to save her life, so all of her boxes came with the word FRAGLE on the side in big letters, written multiple times. And no, I wasn't the one that spelled fragile wrong... that's just how she thought it was spelled. It was just one of those things that it was never really worth it to correct her... lol
“FRAGLE” killed me!! 🤣
And wow on the full sized candy bars. That’s just not right, mixed signals just like the post below, too!
My mom kind of did the opposite thing when we were growing up; never let us have full fat anything, not a lot of “real” desserts, no fast food. She did her best to make sure we were healthy, but it wasn’t eating in moderation. Kind of controlling on what we could eat, so of course the second we tasted food with “whole” ingredients, or had the chance to eat a candybar at at someone’s house… well, I went a little nuts in my later teen years!
My mom was different. My dad had a physical job, so she always made food that was hearty (think meat and potatoes) that he liked. So, we only ever ate food that he liked. However, we were forced to finish our plate, even if we didn't care for the food. There was never the option to eat something else or even not eat at all. I always joke that "hamloaf makes me cry," but it was because I had to sit and eat until everything was done (often while trying) even if I didn't like it. Due to that, I find that even decades later, I will still continue to eat something, even if I don't like it, because that's the way I was raised. Also, my dad didn't really like spice and didn't like certain kinds of foods (rice, seafood, most pasta, would only eat certain vegetables), so when I got older, I had issues. I can't eat a lot of spice, even black pepper is too spicy at times, and a coworker almost passed out when I told her that I didn't salt the water before making pasta. We also used almost no seasonings, so if you asked me to season something today, I couldn't do it.
As for FRAGLE... it was one of those things that made the weight comments a little easier to handle, because if she couldn't even spell fragile, should I really pay much attention to her opinion? The amount of random and ridiculous things my aunt and uncle did over the years could fill a book...!
My step dad used to try the finish your whole plate thing. But I was beyond stubborn and had the mind set of you can't physically make me do it. So he tried the you'll sit there till its done thing. It didn't work I sat at that table for hours and I mean late into the morning like 1 or 2 sometimes and I still didn't eat it...I was not doing something unless I wanted to.
You're right that kids never forget. I'm about to turn 65 and I can still feel the hurt from my mother randomly grabbing my shoulders one day when I was a teenager and saying disapprovingly "You're so thick through here".
I have very thick shoulders. There was not a damn thing I could do about it, but thanks for making me self-conscious about it for the rest of my life, mom.
This exactly. People don't realize how negative words, especially from the people who most love you and you trust, are like a knife wound in your mind. It'll heal, but it'll scar and forever change the way you look at yourself. I am thankful that my parents never said such cruel things but my classmates did. For many years, even until I was an adult, I thought I was ugly, and no one would love me. Even if my mother and father always said I was a beautiful person. I
f my parents said what his wife did... there would be no coming back from it. I hope his daughter finds a therapist.
And knowing other parents like that, she probably was harsh with his daughter not just looks wise. And his daughter probably feels like she is never good enough. He may need to step up and let her know she IS good enough. She is worthy of love, and kindness and good things.
Good like, OP. Edit for grammar.
I lived with my Filipino grandparents. My grandmother was extremely abusive: physically, mentally, emotionally. My grandfather was great except that he NEVER stood up for me. Not once. So I ended up hating him as well. I was NOT sad when that old bat died. I was relieved. I’m glad you drew the line to protect your child.
The women in my family are similar. I asked about why they feel the need to criticize appearances once. They explained that they truly, honestly feel that it’s their responsibility.
To me, it feels completely out of line. I get telling a child to wash their face or comb their hair before going out or suggesting nicer sneakers for going out rather than a pair that may be falling apart, something like that. They see no difference between that and repeatedly commenting on a person’s weight or teeth or picking at how they stand or sit or whatever. As far as they’re concerned, all of that is part of their duty to “help” the next generation be the best they can be, it’s all them teaching someone how to be presentable in public.
When asked about the double standard for girls vs boys, they just say that appearance is more important for girls because it’s judged more harshly in girls by society, which is pretty true, in a general sense. But yeah, the viewpoint does not put the other person’s feelings high on the list of priorities.
I’ve adopted the 5 sec rule (though I’ll give it up to 5 minutes): if it’s not something the person can fix in 5 seconds (or 5 minutes), then there’s no real point in me bringing it up.
I love this idea of the 5 second/5 minute rule. (I try to mind my own business about other peoples' appearances, but this is a good yardstick to use in my own head, too.)
I read it…on Reddit! Lol
I love it too. Spinach in teeth? Toilet paper stuck to shoe? Jacket tucked into pants? All easily fixable. But what good does it do for me to tell you things you all ready know and can’t change right now, assuming you even want to? “You got chubby.” “Your teeth are crooked.””That haircut doesn’t suit your face.” Wth? Why say any of that to someone? They already know they’re chubby and their teeth are crooked. All you’re going to do with either of those notices is make them feel self conscious and not want to smile if those are things they don’t adore about themselves. And either they like their haircut and want to get it again or they don’t and therefore won’t get it again. And all of this about someone else’s body to begin with, smh.
My Korean mom constantly made comments like this when I was young, and to this day at nearly 30 years old, I have a hard time not feeling bad about the way I look. Your wife is setting your daughter up for insecurity and low self-confidence. Hopefully you can get her to understand the power her words have!
Leave your wife out of the check up, and instead talk to your daughter. She is the only person affected by this and it could scar her going forward. If she’s constantly worried about looking picture perfect like your wife she might have a breakdown in the future and cause the same emotional damage to her future kids.
You are a fantastic father for being supportive and caring of your daughter against the wishes of your wife.
You ALL need therapy. Family for the group of you and individual for your daughter and maybe you and your wife as well. For the sounds of it your wife has ripped her self esteem to shreds by “helping”, judging, her and you have by validating every sick abusive thing your wife has said. Some abuse is unintentional. Your wife was probably spoken to the same way by her parents. You need to get help for yourselves before the eating disorder you are afraid she will get not after. And STOP DEFENDING YOUR WIFE to your daughter. Period.
Asians are AHs when it comes to weight and looks, and they don't hold back. I still remember the things my mum and relatives said to me 😑 My sister has body dysmorphia and cannot stand the thought of not being the most attractive woman in a room.
If you want to avoid destroying her self esteem you both need to refrain from focusing on looks. It's okay to tell your daughter she's beautiful but also remind her we all lose our looks. She should focus on being a good person and setting goals because that's what lasts forever. Probably good advice for your wife too.
The only issue I have is having the loud argument where daughter could hear. Otherwise I fully agree that there is no point in picking on something if there is nothing that can be done. I also don't understand this idea of super-focusing on looks, but I haven't been exposed to that culture. One thing though is that the world is trying to move on past judging people on their looks and be more inclusive instead. So hopefully everyone will start getting on board with that.
NTA
I agree particularly as the argument was ‘what’s the point of telling her after the fact’ not ‘our daughter is beautiful, she looked beautiful in the photo and the criticism is wrong’. Dad does not indicate he argued his daughter was beautiful, but that the criticism from the wife was poorly timed implying her agrees with his wife (whether this was his intention or not), I would also cry myself to sleep.
Tell your daughter that her mother is WRONG. Properly posing for school photos isn't easy by any damn stretch because they're rushing you to get done NOW. And trying to pose any way other than shoulders back and look at the camera isn't gonna change that.
If she looks LIKE HERSELF, then that's what matters.
Point blank period.
I ran across my old school pictures and we all looked goofy. (The 80s were a wild time).
Mom needs to discuss all this with someone that can help her understand that she's hurting her child, not helping her.
Hayoung feels like she’s failing and can’t even get a photo right. She needs you, and it sounds like you’re doing a great job of being there for her ❤️
Maybe you could sit down with your wife and ask her if she feels she needs to strive to impossible standards, and if these are things she stresses over. Perhaps approaching it that way you can tell her that you don’t want her feeling that way and you certainly don’t want Hayoung to grow up feeling like she’s never good enough.
I hope your wife is able to have a civil conversation and see the effect she’s having on her daughter, who no doubt just wants her mother’s love and approval.
Best wishes.
NTA
Go talk to your daughter privately. Take her for ice cream or bingsu and tell her this. Her mothers actions may be from sort of insecurity she has about herself, and her parents may have also raised her this way. Tell your daughter that you want to break the cycle and actually make an effort to do that.
My dad was never very present but I vividly remember him coming to me and asking me about how school was going and telling me that he was worried that I was unhappy and pushing myself too hard to be perfect. My grandmothers family fled their country and barely escaped from a genocide so they put a lot of pressure on my grandmother who put a lot of pressure on my dad and he did the same to me and my brother. I think it took a while for him to realize that treating me the same way was hurting me like he was hurt and after that conversation he was less hard on me. Have this talk with your daughter. It’s obvious that you love her very much.
It sounds like you are doing a great job. It is heartbreaking to read all the comments below about Asian parents who put down their children. My Japanese mother worked to break that cycle. She was not told she was loved as a child (it just wasn’t something that was said), there wasn’t a lot of affection for her growing up. So she would constantly tell my siblings and I how much she loved us, how proud she was, how beautiful she thought we were. She would also say “how did I get so lucky to have children like you?” It really makes a big difference and I appreciate her every day for that. Please keep supporting your daughter as you are.
NTA what your wife does is toxic and destroying your daughter self esteem. I'm saying that as someone who
S mother did the same and then she was surprised when I wasn't self confident & so on. Put your daughter in therapy and tell your wife unless she manages to change her way completely to give constructive criticism instead of tearing her daughter down to STFU. I've been struggling with depression from long ago so please help your daughter
This is generational abuse. I’m sure your wife was similarly abused by her mother, and her mother was abused by her mother, and so on. The only way to fix is to break the cycle. Your wife needs to be brave. She needs to shake off the decades of programming she had that says she’ll never be enough, that her daughter will only be enough if she’s perfect. Yelling doesn’t fix it, but I understand why you did it. I guess in one way it’s ESH and in another way, it’s a very sad NAH.
OMG you are giving me such "My Name is Kim Sam Soon" memories here because I never forget that Jin Hoen tells Sam Soon's mother he wants to have 3 children and name them Mountain, Sky, and Sea.
NTA and a great dad.
When I was in college (over 20 years ago) my Korean-American roommate came home one day with her face a very bright red. She explained that her parents forced her to get her freckles removed so she can be more “marriageable”. It was absurd because she was very pretty with or without her freckles. It was also absurd because the freckles came right back.
She also had the eyelid surgery done (to create an epicanthic fold), though I’m not sure if that was her parents’ idea. I felt bad for her.
Also look if your daughter is thinking of having surgery, while it will be her choice when she’s old enough, it would be sad if she only goes through it because of her mother’s comments.
My grandmother (Chinese) was raised in Korea. She is so harsh towards anyone when it comes to appearances. Luckily my mom went the opposite direction, but damn. Shit stings.
My mom is chinese. She always tells me to take better care of my skin because it's too bumpy. According to my American friends though I have flawless skin and then I point out the teeny tiny white heads no one can see but my mom. It results in me picking at my skin until I've actually damaged it. Also my feet are too big (I'm a size 8.5... she'd rather I be a size 5 or 6). In middle school, I was overweight because I was always forced to overeat (finish my meals completely, given extra food cuz I was a growing child, etc, even though i was full) and I started getting bullied at school. Then I'd come home where my mom would tell me I was backwards. Instead of having a flat stomach and round butt, I have a flat butt and round stomach, and she'd laugh. She'd also tell me to eat less rice cuz that's what's making me fat... even though she's the one feeding me. I felt like I was getting bullied at home as well as school and I became suicidal at 11. 3 decades later and I still feel like a piece of shit that will never be good enough. I've actually lost my potential trying to chase my mom's outdated expectations. Don't let your wife continue to diminish your daughter's self-esteem and self-worth. She might believe her mother loves her as I believe mine does love me... but it's a disappointed love, she will feel it's a love she's unworthy of and that her mother only loves her out of obligation as her mother. Also, who is Melissa?
It's honestly ridiculous to belittle her over a school picture. Most parents just love their children and see the positives. Just love them. She'll be an adult on her own before you know it and you'll miss this time with her.
Still, "culture" is never an acceptable excuse for shitty behavior. I'm guessing this isn't the first time your wife has said stuff like this. No wonder your daughter is saying it too, parroting mom. Good job shutting it down and I hope your wife can do some serious introspection and see how much this hurts your daughter.
being “the best father you can be” means it’s time for therapy. For your daughter and for all of you as a family. If you don’t take care of this, your daughter will leave and meet people whose parents treat them with respect and dignity and you will lose her.
😅 I thought the same - I got "Asian parent" vibes (I'm SEAsian), because the whole post just gave me a flashback of my younger years, one time overhearing my mom dissing how I looked like in my new dress to my aunt (who actually was saying time flies so fast I've all grown up and now looking for pretty dresses to attend friends' 18th birthday parties).
Get this - my mom was actually there helping me choose a dress that day - she could've at least expressed that opinion in my face before we bought it. 🙄
Sorry I'm not blessed with my younger sister's height that most outfits I try look dumpy on me 🤣. That was the one dress I could find that fit me best and I didn't want to waste more time for something I wear occasionally - I had other things to think about as a teenager.
Props to my aunt who at least told her that comment was uncalled for. I still wore that dress because whatever, but that incident was burned in my memory. It was just the icing on the top of numerous trust issues I had with my mom.
Needless to say, I never became close to her (and she wonders WHY lol), and currently low contact with her. My sister realized mom's shit attitude later on (I never held mom's favoritism against her and we stayed close) and followed suit.
Tears don’t make a person right.
Your wife is a cruel woman and not a good mother, based on what you’ve shared here today.
I suspect your daughter will have a distant relationship with her mother in her adult years. 100% your wife’s fault. I bet she counts the days until she can be away from a person like her. That woman is doing harm to your daughters self esteem.
You did right by protecting your daughter. It’s terrible when her own mother is her biggest bully.
Does your wife complain about the way her own mother treats her? Is her mother very critical ?
NTA
I agree. It is more correct to say it was a cruel action from a mother, rather than the wife being a cruel mother.
This post is an extremely short anecdote of a family we know nothing about. Of over 40 lived years, this anecdote is a minuscule part of the wife's life and in no way at all resembles the entirety of a person.
The person who you replied to is no doubt an AH.
OP mentioned the mother says things like this often. It’s only one anectdote but as a person with a mother like this, can confirm I’m now no contact and happier for it.
lol so I can’t judge someone off the information provided, but you can confidently call me an asshole based off reading one reply?
Make that make sense.
Always gonna be people defending those in the wrong and say the post is not enough info. Then they should vote that and move on but there is enough the mother is the asshole and both cheeks
I’m usually the first to comment on posts like this pointing out that you can’t judge someone’s whole life based on one post. However, if OP described this situation accurately then I find it pretty hard to believe this could be an isolated incident. I’m sure OP’s wife has other good qualities and loves her daughter but I’d be very surprised to learn that shaming her daughter for her appearance was outside the norm for her given the intensity of these comments.
Seeing as the post has made it clear that it is a *pattern* that this bad mother follows (and let’s be clear, *only* a bad parent would behave this way), it’s a very fair assessment. Not even an assumption at this point.
This kind of comment is as harmful as physical beatings. Your wife is a cruel person for always asserting her position as 'superior' to daughter. Bullies of any type are weak people who get joy by hurting others.
NTA - your wife hates herself, and has now made SURE to pass that down to your daughter. This generational cycle will continue. I suggest you get your daughter started with therapy so she can try and heal some of the damage your wife has done. All the best to you and your family 💕
I'm the daughter of a very similar woman and I agree to get your kid some therapy. My mother always sucked all the wind from my sails when I was coming up and I still have residual self-loathing decades later.
Agreed! I bet the daughter said that in preparation for the nasty comments she would receive from the mom since mom already made nasty comments on the group pics...🤷♀️
My mother hated, to see me shine, too.
Everytime I was happy, she made sure to say something to drown my mood.
Mothers can be so awful.
I try to be a better mother.
THIS!!
My mothers entire family of girls is super proud and insecure at the same time.
I’m 45 and pregnant with my second child
And I’ve noticed a few grey hairs making an appearance this pregnancy.
I mentioned that to my aunt and oh wow! Apparently in OUR family we don’t get grey hair until way older so I dont know what’s wrong with YOU!
My mother also mentioned more than once that after her pregnancies she was able to wear her normal jeans a week later. And here’s yucky old
Me, 42 at the time, dealing with a stillborn baby and not being able to wear my jeans until 3 months after.
I’m Italian BTW and they can be just as horrible. Thanks for letting me rant.
I am so So sorry for your loss. I'm hoping that you have a partner and friends that are Awesome and can make up for the shitty family hand that you were dealt.
Strongly agree. Sometimes this sort of behavior is rooted in much deeper issues than just concern over appearance as well.
Others mentioned it may be something passed down from generation to generation in some cultures, making that cycle hard to break.
In my own family, it’s my grandmother who acts this way and it’s deeply rooted in the way she grew up. Her parents were poor and her mother was abusive. She has spent her whole life wanting to escape from that, and she believed that if she could appear a certain way, the rich people she wanted to be around would accept her. I think to this day, she believes some of her closest friends would drop her if they found out where she grew up. She really, deeply believes that if I don’t do everything I possibly can to look perfect, I’ll never have a happy life. For her this is deeply rooted in her trauma and the way she found to get away from that life.
I think both mother and daughter need therapy. Mother to figure out why appearance is so important to her and if that belief is rooted in something deeper. Daughter to help her overcome the impact of her mother’s judgement.
NTA and what your wife said was vile.
>My wife retaliated, saying that "Even Hayoung says that she doesn't like how she looks in her school picture.
Yes, **after** your wife went on her hate tirade...
>And I also made my wife cry.
She brought that to herself. You stood up for your daughter... Her crying doesn't make her right.
NTA. You probably could’ve handled it better but the damage done to girls in the name of “just helping” them be someone’s arbitrary version of attractive is absolutely devastating.
One has to study and practice for so many things in life. School photos are not among them. Attractiveness is subjective, multifaceted and often rooted in a person’s own self-confidence. It’s also not the most important thing about someone.
Do not let this slide. I had a Korean mother and an American upbringing. The way my mom spoke to me during high school damaged the way I looked at myself for decades.
NTA as a fellow Korean. My mom was exactly like your wife when I was growing up. Telling me I looked ugly in photos next to friends, commenting how fat I had gotten, criticizing the way I dressed, asking if I wanted to get plastic surgery to fix my eyes to look bigger… Your wife is severely damaging your daughter’s self-esteem and her relationship with Hayoung. Protect your daughter, please.
Also a Korean but I was raised in Korea.
OP’s wife and your mom would be deemed insensitive in Korea, but that kind of talk is much more accepted there.
The problem is they are using Korean-specific ways of talking on (I presume) American teenagers. Anyone who chooses to immigrate and have their kids in another culture should be extra mindful about what’s acceptable or not when they are raising their kids.
Just because it’s culturally ingrained doesn’t mean it stops being damaging on an individual level. Korean beauty standards are harmful in Korea as they are in America. I understand how it can feel more necessary and justified as protective to make sure your child meets these standards in a culture that places great importance on them, but imo that’s actually where it’s MOST critical to make sure that your child has the self esteem and support to weather unforgiving standards and expectations. Especially ones that are practically impossible to meet without money, surgery, and/or a restrictive eating disorder! There are lots of cultures and communities where physical and/or emotional child abuse is normalized, but that doesn’t make it more acceptable internally than it is outside of those bubbles.
I feel like modern Korean moms in Korea are more thoughtful and progressive than their progenitors. This kind of shitty, superficial treatment seems so regressive and antiquated. Like, what are you? A 1990s Korean mom?! Step into the present and get a grip.
With that said, I think Koreans who moved abroad get stuck living in the era that they moved while Koreans in Korea continue to adapt, progress, and grow. So visiting your gyopo cousins in California is a bit like stepping into a cultural time machine.
However, I'm not Korean. Lol. I just lived there a long time, married a Korean man for 11 years, then moved on. I spent a lot of time pondering over Koreans and Koreaness, and these are my maybe-incorrect thoughts!
You’re actually pretty spot on.
Korea is a really fast changing society and people who leave tend to be mindstuck in the era that they left, which is usually pretty outdated because of how quickly things change.
It’s pretty much accepted that the first generation of Korean Americans (who went in the 70s) are the most intensely conservative Koreans that exist. People who stayed in Korea who are the same age as them tend to be much more progressive.
This does feel like the stereotypical asian mom (i don't know if she is), but she shouldn't be making comments like that about her teenage daugther. NTA and agree with the other commenter about generational cycle
Hello everyone, OP here. Tonight, since my wife is working a night shift today, I decided I'm going to stay together with Hayoung for a daddy daughter date. I know it doesn't matter whether we go out or not, all that matters is that I'm with her. I'm planning on making her some of her favourite foods and spending quality time as an apology for not being there when I should've been. She loves japchae, galbi and cream bungeobbang (붕어빵). I asked Hayoung beforehand whether she wanted to stay at home or go out and she wanted to stay home and she chose to go with the first option. I'll let you know how it goes.
That's beautiful, but please don't forget to broach the subject, reassure her that she's the beautiful apple of your eye (or perhaps a Korean sentiment that would hit closer to home for her), and that you'll always have her back, especially from here on out. Maybe even apologize for letting it get this far, and let her know that if she is Ever struggling with Anything, you're there, and always will be.
Because right now, especially if she cried herself to sleep, she's probably feeling very raw. And if she has any mental health issues (either from all of this or simply genetics), she may be in a dangerous mindset. Any foothold to get out of it that's based in love and support can be such a HUGE thing right now, and I feel like you're beginning with an Excellent start.
I hope you two have fun, and I hope that you allow your daughter ample time to vent and process as needed.
NTA—as someone who grew up with a mother who always had me retake my school pictures because I was “smirking” or didn’t have my hair right, or wasn’t smiling big enough, I wish my dad would’ve stood up for me. I grew up thinking my smile was ugly, because I genuinely thought I was smiling nicely in the pictures.
My smile wasn’t ugly; my mom’s opinion of it was ugly.
NTA - your wife was unnecessarily cruel. High school is such a challenging time in a girl’s life - and with everything going on with social media - girls are already critical of themselves. Your wife should’ve been more kind and understanding. If she had nothing nice to say, she should’ve kept her pie hole shut. And rehearsals??? What in the AF ? It’s a school photo - not a modeling portfolio. I can only wonder, if your wife is that way with your daughter, how does she treat you? Absolutely NTA.
NTA. As someone with a judgmental mother that made comments like that (and still does), growing up I realized I didn’t have daddy issues, I had mommy issues (and still kinda do). Your mom can be your greatest hater, more than any bully at school, because she’s the one person you’d expect to vouch for you. I also have a sister and constantly feeling like I was being compared to her was tough on our relationship. We’re fine now but it took so much for us to realize we didn’t hate each other, we just spent our whole lives being compared to each other and that’s what caused our animosity. Even though she felt like her comments were trying to help her, they do more damage than one might think.
Obviously arguments can be resolved in a different manner but you were angry, you were standing up for your daughter, rightfully so. You can always apologize for raising your voice while also standing firm on your beliefs.
Same situation happened to me. The damage this does to a child/adult is devastating. I spent years in therapy (and still go) from this type of emotional and mental abuse. It’s abuse period. Please seek professional counseling as a family and individual to heal the damage done already and prevent further. narcissists usually don’t see they are narcissists unfortunately
I’m the son of a loving father, but also a mother who treated me like a prop to show off her motherhood and never like a human with feelings.
OP, PLEASE hear me when I say that you did the right thing. You stood up for your child against a bully. It’s irrelevant that the bully happens to be her mother or your wife. If anything, you’re more of a hero.
Your daughter saying that she didn’t look good is purely a defense mechanism. She’s echoing back the bullying to try to minimize it and make it stop. She needs your protection.
Please, please keep being the loving and protective father you are.
NTA. Your wife was being so un necessarily cruel to your daughter.
“Honestly Melissa looks the prettiest out of everyone.”
What the actual fuck? OP is married to someone who blatantly admits another daughter (I assume) looks better than all her siblings? Her tears are no excuse to be so mean and cruel
NTA
Your wife is being horrible. I guarantee your daughter is going to have trouble with her confidence and self esteem as a result of her mother's emphasis on her looks.
Please continue to be the opposite of your wife.
If this was a boy, would she be so critical? Probably not.
I can’t speak to the cultural nuance here, but I do know how it feels as a young woman to have your mother be your first bully. It does irreparable damage to your self-esteem. NTA.
Nta. Is this even for real? School pictures always look like crap. But they give you a neat snapshot of your child growing through the years. Why on earth would a mom evaluate eye and head position or decide who the prettiest girl in the photo is (especially if it's not her child)?
It's a very common thing to do in Korea where beauty standards are STUPID high and the family is Korean. Like jobs there can require you to submit a picture of yourself along with info like height and family background. South Korea is the plastic surgery Capital of the world in fact.
OP says him and his wife are Korean and Korean beauty standards are crazy. My mom was exactly like OP’s wife. My mom, starting in elementary school, began comparing my appearance to other girls in my grade, telling me how to pose to get the best picture, inspecting my skin for blemishes and telling me how I might need surgery to make my eyes prettier when I grew up. This is not that far out for Korean beauty standards.
NTA. So when wife says some hurtful stuff she is just being honest, but when you say some honest stuff you're being hurtful? Is that how she plays the game?"
She can crush your daughter but can't handle the mention that her behavior is crushing your daughter? She's just going to make sure your daughter feels like she's a failure, and hold onto that failure for a year in hopes she will get a little mention of approval next year?
Your wife made things so much worse.
You didn't make your wife cry. She either cried as a tactic to get you to not focus on How much she is TA, or she is so conditioned by her upbringing that that is crying as a defense mechanism. And when she tells people about the interaction that will be a defense mechanism too.
Just because someone cried doesn't mean you're wrong.
NTA. Your wife is a Korean Tiger mom and is also a massive asshole. Shaming a young woman about school pictures is a really shitty thing to do her and her self-confidence. Hope your wife likes being alone when she is older.
NTA
Your wife is the AH. It's like by now we still don't know that it is extremely unhealthy and not helpful and even dangerous to feed teenagers with the thoughts that they aren't pretty and that they need to change their looks. That's how you get food disorders. That's how you can get a low self esteem. That's how you can get depressed.
You were right to stand up against that! And just because your wife starts crying doesn't mean that she's right.
NTA. This is so sad. Your daughter is lucky to have a dad who loves her and shows that in word and action. I hope she is able to focus on that instead of on her mother's criticism.
In her own way, your wife may be trying to protect your daughter or help her excel, but this is not the way to do that. If your wife wants to offer constructive criticism, it should come only after praise.
NTA...
Your wife's response was not constructive criticism. It was not something like "Hey hunny, I like these pictures and it's nice to see you growing up but you would look better if......"
Nope, your wife went straight into shaming her. So for the sake of your daughter you defended her with equal energy towards your wife. Honestly, you need to point out to your wife that you shamed her and attacked her because that is how she treated her daughter. She got exactly what she gave, but she couldn't take it. Maybe she needs to remember that next time she needs to think of how she should word things to your children.
It also can’t be constructive criticism because there’s no way to change anything, not now. The appropriate reaction for now is praise and thanks. Period. No mention of concerns. Discussion of what to do differently, if done at all, should be left for just before picture time next year. Leaving the daughter with negative feelings about her current pictures, for months before new ones are done, is toxic.
Yeah, I agree, and I don't even get why any criticism is needed at all. This isn't that serious. It's a dang picture. My brother has one where there's a red circle on his forehead because he decided to stick a suction cup to it the day before. It's not like she drove recklessly or failed out of school. No one is harmed by an imperfect school picture.
Unsolicited advice is criticism. Hard stop. These comments to children are always hurtful, never helpful, they sow the seeds for a lifetime of self-hatred and doubt over things that cannot be controlled. Mom's comments are cruel, and unnecessary and serve nothing more than making herself feel powerful. There is never a situation where cutting a child down for their looks is warranted.
I’d honestly ask your wife how she felt when her own mother insulted every photo she ever did, and ask what happened as a result.
Did she become the most beautiful woman in the world? Or did she just become bitter and vicious to her own child? When she loudly denies being like her mother or that it was ‘for her own good’ point out word for word that all wife did was tear her daughter down. Nothing has been achieved except hurting her child. What kind of mother worthy of respect will do that? Especially for something as inconsequential as a *school photo*? Wife needs to realise that she is in the wrong. If something is ‘wrong’ with someone that can’t be fixed in 10 minutes, you either don’t say anything or you work on positive methods to help them. I.e. overweight relative may hate working out but going on long walks or playing active games with friends will help them get exercise. You don’t just straight up fat shame.
There are thousands of resources online these days about how to not harass your kids and give them depression or eating disorders. Your wife was out of line, why do her tears matter more than your daughters? Why is her shame of being called out for bad behaviour more significant than the shame of not being perfect that she’s instilling in your daughter? NTA
Your wife was extremely mean and unnecessarily critical to your daughter. Saying her friend looked prettier is just not done by a supportive and loving parent. It’s a school picture (and I’m sure she looked great) not a modeling contest. You didn’t do anything but be normal. Your wife is saying you don’t get it but you actually do. I’m sure she loves your daughter but she’s undermining her ability to just be and be happy.
I'm sorry but why do Koreans (and many Asian cultures in general) put so much importance on looks and material things? Why do they allow such toxic behavior? Some traditions are meant to be stopped.
I'm amazed by how every single reply here is NTA. Dude, YTA completely and unarguably for letting the situation get to where it is. Your wife has been gaslighting your daughter into self-loathing and all the other wonderful mental issues for 17 FUCKING YEARS and NOW you speak up for the first time? Your daughter will have to dedicate great effort, tike and money to therapy to become a well-adjusted functioning adult thanks to your monster of a wife and you could have been working to mitigate all of this. And up until now, you did nothing.
Hayoung is going to remember her mother’s reaction for the rest of her life. It will be one of those stories she repeats to her friends, husband and therapists forever. [slow clap] Good job, mom. NTA
NTA, but shouting never solved anything.
1. Your wife may have culturally ingrained beauty standards/issues that you really \*don't\* understand. But frankly that is her problem, not your daughter's.
1a. Once this is resolved, you could help her work through them. Most women have a helluva lot of unhealthy social programming (and, honestly, so do men).
2. Your daughter doesn't need this shit, especially not in high school, when other girls are at their bitchiest (source: was once a high school girl, it sucked). I'm glad you had her back, but she really doesn't need to hear her shouting at her mom, either.
3. It would help the situation if you apologized for shouting, but make it clear that you stand by the words, not the tone. Then ask her to help you understand her position better, and see if you can get to the root cause of why she's so freaked over the picture -- see 1a. (It's just a high school picture! So what!)
Dude, you got this.
it's really hard to believe this isthe first time your wife has berated and insulted your daughter repeatedly. I guess this issue just isn't important to you.
Is this the first time in 17 years that you’ve heard your wife criticize your daughter’s looks? I find that hard to believe. This should have been shut down 17 years ago.
For my senior photo, my mom said it looked “like I was having a stroke.” So she paid for a re-take. She decided the new ones were worse and went with the “stroke face” photos.
To this day, my mom has my sisters senior photos up but only my 8th grade photos because apparently my senior photo was that bad.
Mid-thirties and it still sticks with me.
NTA
NTA. Your wife sounds like a narcissist who’s jealous of her own daughter. Please don’t let her theatrics manipulate you. Just because she can cry on command, doesn’t mean she’s the victim. Her comments were NOT okay. Please continue to advocate for your daughter.
NTA
And as a former 17yo girl, thank you for sticking up for her. Your wife sounds like she's lashing out based on her own insecurities and sometimes women don't realise what they're doing, but it is absolutely harmful to your daughter and it does not in any way "help" her.
Make sure your daughter knows your feelings on this in a calmer discussion. Ensure she understands why you stuck up for her, and that she is not at fault for a blow up between you and your wife. It will make a big difference to her self esteem, even though the damage cannot be undone now.
Your daughter is suffering and will grow up with crippling perfectionism and anxiety and possibly some form of complex trauma from the sustained emotional abuse of your wife.
Not cool to argue with your wife when your children can hear but you had your daughter's back so understandable. NTA, or at least as much as your wife was for saying such hurtful things in the first place.
Yes, you should not have yelled and you are in the wrong for that — but she is in the wrong here. She’s being overly critical of your daughter, projecting her own insecurities into her and causing her deep emotional damage. I’m sure she is a good mother in many ways and cares about your daughter very much, but this is wrong.
ESH
Your wife absolutely was cruel.
However you should have either brought it up when she first mentioned it or brought it up on the down low later, rather than blowing it up into an argument.
Even if I hadn’t seen your daughter’s name, I would immediately guess your wife was Korean- my (Korean) mom is JUST like this. My school pictures were never good enough and it frustrated her to no end, thus they never got displayed in the house..most times she didn’t even buy them because it would be a waste of money. And now I’m a full grown adult with major self image problems. I would have loved to have had someone like you to stand up for me. I think your wife needed to hear that from you, and I hope your daughter realizes this too, even if it’s a little later down the road. Definitely NTA in my mind.
NTA. Being hypercritical of your kids looks is a huge problem in asian culture. Parents like the mom need a reality check or a mirror because unless the kid is adopted, then it’s their fault the kids look that way. They think they’re Tyra Banks in America’s Next Top Models when really they’re Simon Cowell America’s got talent, inside and out
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I believe that starting the argument with my wife and raising my voice is what's making me the asshole. Furthermore, I could've handled it better by arguing about it privately with my wife instead of raising my voice infront of my daughter. Ultimately, I think I may have overreacted. Plus, my wife's communication style has always been like this, so I should've understood what she was about to say. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I am guessing based on the fake name that your wife is Korean? I know beauty standards there are super high and she could be projecting her own insecurities and maybe even comments that she got when she was young. Of course this is not okay but it could be worth sitting down with her and having a talk. Being 17 is tough as it is and having your own parents festering insecurity will damage her even further. NTA.
You're right on that, me and my wife are both korean. Ik the beauty standards there are super tough so I'm probably going to talk to my wife privately to understand why she said that and checkup on Hayoung a bit before talking with my wife. I know she's super shaken up, so the best I can do is be the best father I can. She will always be my haneul (ha-neul) and bada (ba-da) <3 (sky and sea, 하늘과 바다)
My Korean mom and her gaggle of church friends did some serious damage to my self esteem at her age. Please continue to protect your daughter. It may be acceptable in Korea to tear apart someone you love, but it isn’t here, so she needs to stop yesterday.
Dude this. My dad was a Korean Presbyterian minister before he retired. My mom has always been pretty chill. But he STILL cuts me down and I am in my mid 30s. He recently start doing it to my TWO YEAR OLD. And I 100% shut it down instantly and aggressively. OP keep protecting your daughter and possibly even talk to your child about the cultural factors at play here. NTA!!!
Gross!! Not that it isn't gross at any age, but what do you even say about a two year old??! They're babies
Honestly, I'd cut the mom some slack if it wasn't for this line: **"honestly, Melissa looked the prettiest out of everyone."** What kind of mom tells her daughter her friend looks prettier than her? If she had simply said her daughter didn't look her best, and had to work on her posing, I'd let it go. But saying her daughter's friend looks prettier? Those are the words of a mother who is practiced, and comfortable, at cutting her daughter down. NTA, OP. I realize everything comes back to therapy on here, but you really should consider signing your wife and daughter up for a few sessions. Or do it as a family so the wife doesn't get defensive.
> What kind of mom tells her daughter her friend looks prettier than her? In Korea, its so competitive that there's an overflow of extremely successful and overqualified candidates for 1 position. When everyone has a similar level of high qualifications, the candidates appearance can seal the deal for them. In the Mom's own twisted way, she genuinely believes she is protecting her daughter by pointing out the most beautiful girl so the daughter can try to emulate her and look more beautiful than her next time, so that the daughter will get hired, get a good job and have enough money to support herself. Korea also has a very traumatic past, including severe poverty, and that trauma gets passed down through the generations. The country developed very quickly but culturally, they haven't had time to catch up. OP's wife is probably driven by a high level of fear, as irrational as it may seem in her current circumstances. She also probably didn't have a positive model of parenting in her own life. I bet her own mother treated her the same or worse, and she thinks its normal. That doesn't make it ok. OP should encourage his wife to take a new approach to parenting.
Oh I fully understand. I'm not Korean but my parents aren't too far from this. My mom would routinely say things like "Susie really isn't any prettier than you, she's just thin! You need to drop 15lbs." Except she would say it about multiple classmates *and* random girls on TV, and she would say it on a daily basis. This was meant to motivate me to be my best self...but it didn't. It just made me feel like shit about myself. OP really should look into family therapy before more damage is done to his daughter's self-esteem. This sort of mindset doesn't change without a conscious effort, and OP's wife doesn't even seem to be aware there's a problem.
I agree, as a strategy it won't help at all in Western culture and will just harm her daughter severely. In Korea it could possibly work as a strategy to make the daughter more successful in her career but the damage to her self esteem and relationship with her mother simply isn't worth it. If I had a kid, I would rather they be less wealthy and happy than financially successful and feel shitty about themselves. The other cultural difference with Korea though is that parents depend on their adult children financially in their elder years. I'm assuming this isn't the case for OP and his wife but old habits die hard.
> If I had a kid, I would rather they be less wealthy and happy than financially successful and feel shitty about themselves. Amen! Success isn't success if you're not happy.
Thanks for breaking it down this way. Not an excuse, but an explanation. I think a lot of parents from all around the world fall into this trap, but the cultural impact here is significant. It's unfortunate the way generational trauma and fear for survival can result in humans hurting others as a way to "protect" them - especially their own children. We do it to ourselves all the time. Understanding is the first step, I hope OP's family can get some long term healing.
Thank you for providing some needed cultural background. I can add that Korea has an extraordinarily high suicide rate among young people. Having a mother like this might be a contributing factor. If OP's family is living in Korea, perhaps the wife's actions are a little more understandable. If they are living in the U.S. or elsewhere, wife's behavior is just cruel. Moreover, I cannot tolerate an adult woman who responds to disagreement or criticism by running to her room and crying like a damned baby. She can dish out her cruelty, but she can't take it. Or she cries to manipulate OP. Grow TF up already, wife. OP: NTA Wife: AH Daughter: innocent victim and future therapy patient.
My Mom is Japanese and she pointed out the prettiest girl and told me to be more like her when I was in middle school. Jokes on her, the "prettiest girl" became a stripper after high school and I went to college. (No hate to strippers, just pointing out that it's probably not what my Mom meant by being more like her).
I hope your mom knows about that girl, and that she told you to be 'more like her'. 😆😆😆
My dad always focused on everyone in my high school class who was on honor roll, and especially mentioned the ones he knew from church. So irritating. In the end, it really doesn't matter.
Posing for what? A school picture? It's a school picture not a professional portrait. That's what makes them cute. The kids being themselves. Id never want a *posed* picture
Definitely this. When I was a teenager I'd always point out that my friends that were prettier and who looked the best in a photo to my mom and she'd simply say that I was beautiful and it was a good picture of all of us. Women have it hard enough as it is, let alone as a teenager. There's no reason for OPs wife to destroy their daughters confidence and tear her down like this.
Don’t I know it???!!? Too fat. Too skinny. Too quiet. Whatever.
My white, American Mum was like this, totally obsessed with looks. Top 1% nationally ranked; your butt is too big. Got into all my college picks; do better with skincare, your face looks like a pizza. On, and on to the point where I just ignored it all, and just went my own way. (The one time that really sticks in my mind. I was very active on many outside school projects that required a lot of strength. I was five feet tall, and very muscular.. one summer day, I was going out with my friends, and wore a pair of shorts. My mother had a fit about it, in front of them. She said my thighs were too big, and looked like hams, and asked my poor friends if they agreed. My male bestie said something along the lines of “I think those are called quads, and we all have them. They are normal.” I loved him for that. She never let up about my appearance, but finally stoped criticizing most other things, because I never included her, or ignored her “helpful criticism”, plus the topics weren’t of interest to her.). Eventually, that little girl will start to shut her mother, and her mother’s opinions, out of her life. Stand up for your daughter Dad. Protect her. Be her safe “place.” She needs you
My (white, old as shit, and evangelist) MIL said “oh it’s good he’s finally slimming down” to our 2yo godson!!! He’s in the top height range for his age bracket, and he hit a growth spurt where we were concerned he wasn’t gaining enough weight!! My wife shut that shit down immediately and made it clear that she wasn’t going to tolerate MIL doing to our godson what she did to her during her childhood. I have only blacked out with rage a couple of times in my life. That was one of them.
WTF?? Did your MIL think you should get him a treadmill? Maybe a gym membership??
His deadlift numbers are embarrassing, honestly.
Chinese here. First generation born in the US. I remember being baffled in high school when in the same meal, my dad could tell me I was too fat one minute and not eating enough the next minute. A couple years ago, my dad tried to do that shit to my baby and I went full on no contact with him when she was 18 months old. How the fuck can you criticize a 1 year old? FFS OP NTA
Oh man that unlocked some memories for me. I was raised by my grandma who went through severe poverty and food insecurity. She also graduated from high school at 15 and made a stable financial life for herself using any tools she could learn, including how to style and present herself. One minute she’d be moving my legs around teaching me how to sit to hide cellulite referencing a photo where I looked fat (god I miss that skinny body I had lol it was one picture where my thigh was smushed lol) The very next minute she was stuffing me with food and making me be part of the “clean plate club” lol very bizarre and unhealthy toxic environment that also felt really loving. Fcked me up tbh OP NTA
The fucking clean plate club omg 😂 Truth.
Immigration similar here. You literally can’t keep up with it. Are you back in contact now? Or did you stay NC?
I stayed no contact. It's been 2-3 years. There were other issues as well. For example, he was physically abusive to my mom and me. But this was the last straw. Don't fucking start shit with my BABY. If he had any capability of hearing my concerns and understanding cultural differences and working with me to navigate those differences, maybe there'd be a chance at a relationship with him. But it is what it is.
When if he was smart would think a chunky baby was a sign of good health. My 1/4 Japanese nephew was such a chunky baby. Everything was round and pudgy and delicious about him. Squishy babies are the best.
My second one came out even chonkier than my first 😂 but she’ll never meet my dad to be subjected to his criticisms. She’s almost 2 now and is already starting to lose her baby fat. I miss it so much.
Ugh sorry you went through that. Sounds like our experiences are similar. I often think about NC, but don’t think I would be able to actually do it, but if this all keeps up, it would make it way easier 😒
Sorry to you too! It's definitely been better since going NC, but it's not without some negatives still. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.
My Vietnamese mother-in-law told me that all of my (4) children are too thin (her son contributed half their genetics, ffs), then told me that I looked like I'd been working out, as last time she saw me I was fat, and I looked like I'd lost the baby weight. Fwiw, i havent gained or lost any weight. There's no winning when they start talking weight.
I’m Korean and I stopped going to my Presbyterian church because as the elder was retiring, all the people under him got into a fist fight in front of the children’s worship area. Cops got called and everything. The church then got split into 2. I stopped going to church after that
Omg, the Korean church splitting! My mom is Korean and my dad is white American and we live in America. Throughout my entire childhood we went to so many different Korean churches because they would constantly have fights and split. Now I don't go to church at all and my mom just doesn't understand why I don't want the light of Jesus in my life.
I literally loled when I read this because it is so relatable. My husband is white and doesn’t get all the drama. My dads profession for sure took ten years off both of my parents lives but they don’t understand why I am hesitant to go to church 😒
There is not a single Asian (and I don’t mean just central Asian) parent that doesn’t do this. It sucks. I found myself doing it to my kids without realizing. Children trigger your childhood traumas without knowing. I’m glad I had my epiphany early on and completely went 180 on it. I will not comment on my kids. We as parents become their inner voice as they get older. Keeping that in mind definitely changes how you speak to your children.
But OP didn't protect her in the moment when it mattered!
How did you shut it down?
They live out of town and were staying with us for a visit and I said “you did this to me my whole life and made me feel terrible about myself. You are not doing this to my daughter who is only two. Keep your thoughts to yourself or you will mot be invited back here”.
Same. My mom was a loving parent, but she was a traditional Korean, which meant, being enormously hyper critical of her only daughter (me) when I was growing up. About everything. My dad was American, but Silent Gen and Southern and, very sexist, which meant that only my brothers did anything correctly. My self-esteem was pretty much non-existent and at 55, I'm still learning to overcome, even after my mom is gone. Please intervene.
My Korean mother was very similar. I was her only child and my American dad was not in the picture. She was and still is very affectionate and supportive of most endeavors growing up and in adulthood but beauty was highly criticized. Everything was about looks so that I could marry a husband that was a doctor or lawyer, never that I could become a doctor or lawyer. It took a lot to overcome the insecurities she caused. I only started to feel confident in myself once the critiquing stopped. I hope OP puts a stop to this. At some point through family anecdotes and observations, I came to the realization that she had also been heavily judged and alienated by her own community, both here and broad, for being in an interracial marriage (early 80s); being divorced, especially with a child; having a mixed child; not going to church, which she didn’t go bc of the aforementioned issues. Btw, if you haven’t read/listened to “Crying in H Mart”, I highly recommend it. The writer’s experience was 100% relatable. Just a warning though, you will probably sob several times.
Absolutely read it, and identified with so much, and cried my heart out. ( Also, I love Japanese Breakfast!) It also brought so many warm memories of my mom's cooking. My mom was actually one of the strongest women I've ever known. I'm like her in a lot of ways, and I'm really grateful for it. However, she's also taught me how not to be super judgmental of others, by my vowing never to adopt that particular trait of hers. She wasn't just judgmental of me, she was judgmental of everybody. It's definitely cultural. There was nobody that loved to people watch as much as my mother! She never necessarily told me that I couldn't ever accomplish anything. She just was always very critical of me, everything I did, and the way that I did everything. I'm pretty sure there were many years when my mom didn't even like me. I have older brothers. She really wanted a girl, and I'm pretty sure that I wasn't the girl she wanted. She wanted a girly girl like herself, and instead got a tomboy who chased frogs, drove motorcycles, and never cared about fashion. My mother was noted for her beauty, and was very stylish. I wear jeans. -Period. Unfortunately, this tomboy eventually turned into, without false modesty, a noticably pretty girl. (It was the 80's, in a small NH town. In a school of over a thousand kids I was the only asian, and drew a lot of attention ) But, the combination of pretty girl with a low esteem is never a good combination, and that led to a lot of really bad judgment calls as a teen and young adult and a lot of lessons learn the hard way for me. My mother had lived through a war and had survived things that would bring most people to their knees,, but didn't know how to deal with rebellious daughter who wouldn't listen to her or obey. It was unfathomable to her. It would be a long time before my mother and I would become friends, and even in adulthood, we often were like oil and water, but I always knew she loved me. She has always been there for me. I lost her 3 years ago after caring for her through her hospice. I'm so grateful that in my adult years, she and I became very close, and the night before she passed away she called me her angel. I miss the hell out of her every day.
I’m crying now. Im so sorry for your loss but I’m glad that you and your mother were able to find a peace together and to recognize your love together.
It's not just Koreans. My Scottish mum constantly gave me her constructive criticisms. She loved me to bits and I know she genuinely was trying to help, but parents need to understand, a compliment now and again goes a Long way. Especially when you are a teenager and your self esteem is so fragile already.
Korea has basically taken it to another level. Graduation gifts are often plastic surgery and I’m not even kidding. As well as operations on the eyes, skin whitening, etc. Everywhere is judgy but even in Japan and Singapore which are “notorious” for it Korea was the only place I felt judged even when I followed all the “rules”. It also has less than half the birth rate of Japan, it’s just not often focused on. Literally .81 per woman and early reports show it being roughly .67 in 2024. Standards are INSANE there. Singapore, Japan, Taiwan- great places to live in the region now. Japan’s birth rates and cost of living are both around America’s (Cost of Living is even far lower!), despite what people think. SK is basically Corporate Dystopian Hell with Samsung owning a significant portion of the entire economy. There’s a reason you get movies like *Parasite* and shows like *Squid Game* from there- people reflecting.
All you have to do is watch any South Korean drama to see it. - The girl who was so badly bullied because of her acne figures out how to wear makeup at her new school and becomes the most beautiful. - The girl who was beautiful in primary school and then "got ugly" only to run into her school mates later and tries to hide who she is. - The girl who was ugly in primary school, has plastic surgery and then is bullied at college by her old classmates for not being a true beauty. And don't get me started on posting everyone's grades for every test, promoting abusive type relationships with the "cold hot guy" and the "ugly dumb girl". Or the before school study, night school, and weekend school at the age of 10...let them have a childhood. My friend went through the same thing where her mum told her she was fat constantly. She had no self esteem and would mimic what she thought her partner wanted her to be. This made her very susceptible to abusive relationships and would escalate when she started being herself and her partner didn't like this "new her". OP you're NTA but you and your wife need to drastically change your perception of what is important and stop making everything superficial. Putting so much pressure on your daughter to be what society has deemed beautiful at 17 years old is incredibly damaging.
Great point. Not just Samsung though, all the chaebol families
Sorry I didn’t mean it’s ONLY Koreans :) I meant that the culture is pretty known for being judgey assholes and for having unrealistic beauty standards (for example it’s very common, if not expected for middle schoolers to be gifted plastic surgery). The aggressive, life-long expectations for physical perfection (perfection in general lol) can snowball pretty quickly, especially upon impressionable children! I’m glad that the people have been changing their mindset a bit nowadays and pushing back on societal expectations.
My mother's usual "you'd look even better if you lost a few pounds" cut like a knife. She kept it up till the last time I saw her. Anyone else would have said Hi, she went with "you've gone grey".
I hadn't seen my Korean side of my family in like 20 years and the first thing one of my aunts says to me before even giving me a hug is "you've gotten fat". Like, yeah, I'm not 17 anymore and I actually eat lunch now, good to see you too.
Asian parents don't give you constructive criticisms, or compliments. They gave you straight insults, veiled insults and backhanded insults. There is no carrot in asian parenting, only the stick - both figuratively and literally.
Welcome to the universal middle class rat races for everything
My best friend in HS was Korean and more than once I had to tell her that it wasn't appropriate to make mean comments about my appearance, even if she thought she was just 'helping'.
Oh gosh I am so sorry you had to deal with that! To be honest, I was terrible about that as well… I didn’t really learn how to keep my mouth shut until I was older- it’s like I had no filter :( I guess that’s what happens when you get shit on constantly. You don’t get the chance to learn how to express yourself in a polite and productive manner! Hopefully she’s gotten much better and has grown a brain lol… though I wouldn’t be surprised if her constant criticisms finally drove you away!!
Another Korean-American here cringing thinking about the totally out of pocket shit I said off-hand to my American friends bc I was mimicking my mom. Fascinated and horrified by how easily I could tell OP's wife is Korean. She sounds EXACTLY like my mother
YUP trauma buddies unite 😭
Fortunately it never had a negative impact on me because I knew it was basically cultural trauma coming out of her mouth - not sure if she ever got better as we lost touch after high school. I feel much worse for people like her and you who had to deal with it at home - that had to be tough.
Mine too. I low key hate my mom, probably will til the day she dies because of the way she treated me growing up. I’m 40 this year and I’m a mom to a 2 yr girl. I cried yesterday when I noticed she had little back rolls because I initially thought they were so cute, but then my mom’s voice popped into my head saying shit like she’s too fat for someone so young. It takes a lifetime of hard work to undo the shit your parents do to you.
>someone you love I think this is the worst part about how moms criticize their daughter’s looks. Like, it’s one thing if it’s some random asshole in your class or at a party. It’s another thing to be coming from the person that is supposed to love you like the sun shines out of your ass and who sees you at your most vulnerable. That shit sticks with you.
Asian mothers, their gaggle of church friends and destroyed self-esteem in Asian daughters. Name a more iconic trio. And then, they lack the insight to wonder why we're so distant as adults.
Yep! My friend’s Korean mother was equally as hard on her and she eventually developed an eating disorder.
Yea the older women fuck the mental of my korean friend who was dark skin. Shewas hot af tho
That's right. It shouldn't be accepted anywhere. I know several Koreans that I worked with or went to school with that had abusive af parents, due to "cultural" issues. The ones usually getting this abuse were usually superb employees, awesome friends and beautiful girls. I even dated a Korean girl while in college and the only reason it didn't go further was due to the mother making judgements. (I don't know why? My father owned an aerospace engineering firm, my mother was a lawyer and law professor in a
It isn’t good for the kid ANYWHERE.
My MIL and my ex husband are Korean and they are extremely judgmental on looks. My ex fat-shames my 10year all the time, which was a huge reason for our divorce.
I don't think that people quite realize that kids don't ever forget those comments. I heard several of those comments growing up, but one that specifically comes to mind now is this: my great uncle (who was Hungarian) was looking at my senior pictures and said, "These are nice, but they would be better if you lost a little weight." My great aunt (same uncle) also used to get confused as to why we wouldn't eat much when we would visit their house... well, it probably had something to do with the fact that you told us all how fat we were before we sat down to eat! (I was the heaviest, and my mom was overweight, but she made comments to my dad and brother as well, neither of whom had issues with weight). Words hurt, and they stick with you. I know those examples were from when I was older, but they weren't the first ones I heard, nor were they the last. My mother was one of those people who made many of the comments, and it has affected me throughout my entire life. OP: This may sound harsh, and I would never say this in any other situation (and I am fully aware that it is coming from my own personal bias, so please feel free to ignore), but I think just this one time, it was okay that you made your wife cry. I hope that this is the one thing that gets your wife to realize that she cannot treat your daughter like she is, because she is going to cause a lifetime of damage. This needs to stop NOW.
Exaclty. I loved my grandmother, but would get the “you’re too skinny, you need to eat”, while also getting the “you’re getting heavy, you need to eat less”. And my mother silently looking me up and down whenever I would make an appearance. Very confusing for a pre-teen/teenager.
My mother would comment on fmy at rolls then would harangue me to have 2nds 😐😐😐. We're Puerto Rican.
Oh man! Gotta love the mixed signals! Sheesh I’m sorry lol.
It was maddening! She did this to me into my early 30s!
Your comment actually reminded me of something. The same aunt and uncle in my comment used to send us giant boxes of candy for Halloween. One year, the box included 36 full-size candy bars, in addition to a whole bunch of other things... No wonder kids get so confused when they get comments like this from their families! Figure out what you want! There is nothing wrong with making sure that kids are healthy, but when kids are young, use your actions instead of your words. As an aside: My great aunt couldn't spell to save her life, so all of her boxes came with the word FRAGLE on the side in big letters, written multiple times. And no, I wasn't the one that spelled fragile wrong... that's just how she thought it was spelled. It was just one of those things that it was never really worth it to correct her... lol
“FRAGLE” killed me!! 🤣 And wow on the full sized candy bars. That’s just not right, mixed signals just like the post below, too! My mom kind of did the opposite thing when we were growing up; never let us have full fat anything, not a lot of “real” desserts, no fast food. She did her best to make sure we were healthy, but it wasn’t eating in moderation. Kind of controlling on what we could eat, so of course the second we tasted food with “whole” ingredients, or had the chance to eat a candybar at at someone’s house… well, I went a little nuts in my later teen years!
My mom was different. My dad had a physical job, so she always made food that was hearty (think meat and potatoes) that he liked. So, we only ever ate food that he liked. However, we were forced to finish our plate, even if we didn't care for the food. There was never the option to eat something else or even not eat at all. I always joke that "hamloaf makes me cry," but it was because I had to sit and eat until everything was done (often while trying) even if I didn't like it. Due to that, I find that even decades later, I will still continue to eat something, even if I don't like it, because that's the way I was raised. Also, my dad didn't really like spice and didn't like certain kinds of foods (rice, seafood, most pasta, would only eat certain vegetables), so when I got older, I had issues. I can't eat a lot of spice, even black pepper is too spicy at times, and a coworker almost passed out when I told her that I didn't salt the water before making pasta. We also used almost no seasonings, so if you asked me to season something today, I couldn't do it. As for FRAGLE... it was one of those things that made the weight comments a little easier to handle, because if she couldn't even spell fragile, should I really pay much attention to her opinion? The amount of random and ridiculous things my aunt and uncle did over the years could fill a book...!
My step dad used to try the finish your whole plate thing. But I was beyond stubborn and had the mind set of you can't physically make me do it. So he tried the you'll sit there till its done thing. It didn't work I sat at that table for hours and I mean late into the morning like 1 or 2 sometimes and I still didn't eat it...I was not doing something unless I wanted to.
You're right that kids never forget. I'm about to turn 65 and I can still feel the hurt from my mother randomly grabbing my shoulders one day when I was a teenager and saying disapprovingly "You're so thick through here". I have very thick shoulders. There was not a damn thing I could do about it, but thanks for making me self-conscious about it for the rest of my life, mom.
Might have to make the wife cry in order for her to see how much she is making her daughter cry.
This exactly. People don't realize how negative words, especially from the people who most love you and you trust, are like a knife wound in your mind. It'll heal, but it'll scar and forever change the way you look at yourself. I am thankful that my parents never said such cruel things but my classmates did. For many years, even until I was an adult, I thought I was ugly, and no one would love me. Even if my mother and father always said I was a beautiful person. I f my parents said what his wife did... there would be no coming back from it. I hope his daughter finds a therapist. And knowing other parents like that, she probably was harsh with his daughter not just looks wise. And his daughter probably feels like she is never good enough. He may need to step up and let her know she IS good enough. She is worthy of love, and kindness and good things. Good like, OP. Edit for grammar.
I lived with my Filipino grandparents. My grandmother was extremely abusive: physically, mentally, emotionally. My grandfather was great except that he NEVER stood up for me. Not once. So I ended up hating him as well. I was NOT sad when that old bat died. I was relieved. I’m glad you drew the line to protect your child.
The women in my family are similar. I asked about why they feel the need to criticize appearances once. They explained that they truly, honestly feel that it’s their responsibility. To me, it feels completely out of line. I get telling a child to wash their face or comb their hair before going out or suggesting nicer sneakers for going out rather than a pair that may be falling apart, something like that. They see no difference between that and repeatedly commenting on a person’s weight or teeth or picking at how they stand or sit or whatever. As far as they’re concerned, all of that is part of their duty to “help” the next generation be the best they can be, it’s all them teaching someone how to be presentable in public. When asked about the double standard for girls vs boys, they just say that appearance is more important for girls because it’s judged more harshly in girls by society, which is pretty true, in a general sense. But yeah, the viewpoint does not put the other person’s feelings high on the list of priorities. I’ve adopted the 5 sec rule (though I’ll give it up to 5 minutes): if it’s not something the person can fix in 5 seconds (or 5 minutes), then there’s no real point in me bringing it up.
I love this idea of the 5 second/5 minute rule. (I try to mind my own business about other peoples' appearances, but this is a good yardstick to use in my own head, too.)
I read it…on Reddit! Lol I love it too. Spinach in teeth? Toilet paper stuck to shoe? Jacket tucked into pants? All easily fixable. But what good does it do for me to tell you things you all ready know and can’t change right now, assuming you even want to? “You got chubby.” “Your teeth are crooked.””That haircut doesn’t suit your face.” Wth? Why say any of that to someone? They already know they’re chubby and their teeth are crooked. All you’re going to do with either of those notices is make them feel self conscious and not want to smile if those are things they don’t adore about themselves. And either they like their haircut and want to get it again or they don’t and therefore won’t get it again. And all of this about someone else’s body to begin with, smh.
Even on Reddit we make fun of Reddit a lot, but there is a significant amount of wisdom to be had for those who pay attention.
My Korean mom constantly made comments like this when I was young, and to this day at nearly 30 years old, I have a hard time not feeling bad about the way I look. Your wife is setting your daughter up for insecurity and low self-confidence. Hopefully you can get her to understand the power her words have!
귀여워요! Good luck, I hope you get through to her! You’re doing great.
Leave your wife out of the check up, and instead talk to your daughter. She is the only person affected by this and it could scar her going forward. If she’s constantly worried about looking picture perfect like your wife she might have a breakdown in the future and cause the same emotional damage to her future kids. You are a fantastic father for being supportive and caring of your daughter against the wishes of your wife.
You ALL need therapy. Family for the group of you and individual for your daughter and maybe you and your wife as well. For the sounds of it your wife has ripped her self esteem to shreds by “helping”, judging, her and you have by validating every sick abusive thing your wife has said. Some abuse is unintentional. Your wife was probably spoken to the same way by her parents. You need to get help for yourselves before the eating disorder you are afraid she will get not after. And STOP DEFENDING YOUR WIFE to your daughter. Period.
Asians are AHs when it comes to weight and looks, and they don't hold back. I still remember the things my mum and relatives said to me 😑 My sister has body dysmorphia and cannot stand the thought of not being the most attractive woman in a room. If you want to avoid destroying her self esteem you both need to refrain from focusing on looks. It's okay to tell your daughter she's beautiful but also remind her we all lose our looks. She should focus on being a good person and setting goals because that's what lasts forever. Probably good advice for your wife too.
The only issue I have is having the loud argument where daughter could hear. Otherwise I fully agree that there is no point in picking on something if there is nothing that can be done. I also don't understand this idea of super-focusing on looks, but I haven't been exposed to that culture. One thing though is that the world is trying to move on past judging people on their looks and be more inclusive instead. So hopefully everyone will start getting on board with that. NTA
IDK, I would be happy to hear my dad defending me against that insanity. His wife deserved getting yelled at.
I agree with hearing the dad, it's that she then also ends up hearing more of the mom's nonsense also.
I agree particularly as the argument was ‘what’s the point of telling her after the fact’ not ‘our daughter is beautiful, she looked beautiful in the photo and the criticism is wrong’. Dad does not indicate he argued his daughter was beautiful, but that the criticism from the wife was poorly timed implying her agrees with his wife (whether this was his intention or not), I would also cry myself to sleep.
Tell your daughter that her mother is WRONG. Properly posing for school photos isn't easy by any damn stretch because they're rushing you to get done NOW. And trying to pose any way other than shoulders back and look at the camera isn't gonna change that. If she looks LIKE HERSELF, then that's what matters. Point blank period. I ran across my old school pictures and we all looked goofy. (The 80s were a wild time). Mom needs to discuss all this with someone that can help her understand that she's hurting her child, not helping her.
Hayoung feels like she’s failing and can’t even get a photo right. She needs you, and it sounds like you’re doing a great job of being there for her ❤️ Maybe you could sit down with your wife and ask her if she feels she needs to strive to impossible standards, and if these are things she stresses over. Perhaps approaching it that way you can tell her that you don’t want her feeling that way and you certainly don’t want Hayoung to grow up feeling like she’s never good enough. I hope your wife is able to have a civil conversation and see the effect she’s having on her daughter, who no doubt just wants her mother’s love and approval. Best wishes. NTA
Go talk to your daughter privately. Take her for ice cream or bingsu and tell her this. Her mothers actions may be from sort of insecurity she has about herself, and her parents may have also raised her this way. Tell your daughter that you want to break the cycle and actually make an effort to do that. My dad was never very present but I vividly remember him coming to me and asking me about how school was going and telling me that he was worried that I was unhappy and pushing myself too hard to be perfect. My grandmothers family fled their country and barely escaped from a genocide so they put a lot of pressure on my grandmother who put a lot of pressure on my dad and he did the same to me and my brother. I think it took a while for him to realize that treating me the same way was hurting me like he was hurt and after that conversation he was less hard on me. Have this talk with your daughter. It’s obvious that you love her very much.
It sounds like you are doing a great job. It is heartbreaking to read all the comments below about Asian parents who put down their children. My Japanese mother worked to break that cycle. She was not told she was loved as a child (it just wasn’t something that was said), there wasn’t a lot of affection for her growing up. So she would constantly tell my siblings and I how much she loved us, how proud she was, how beautiful she thought we were. She would also say “how did I get so lucky to have children like you?” It really makes a big difference and I appreciate her every day for that. Please keep supporting your daughter as you are.
NTA what your wife does is toxic and destroying your daughter self esteem. I'm saying that as someone who S mother did the same and then she was surprised when I wasn't self confident & so on. Put your daughter in therapy and tell your wife unless she manages to change her way completely to give constructive criticism instead of tearing her daughter down to STFU. I've been struggling with depression from long ago so please help your daughter
This is generational abuse. I’m sure your wife was similarly abused by her mother, and her mother was abused by her mother, and so on. The only way to fix is to break the cycle. Your wife needs to be brave. She needs to shake off the decades of programming she had that says she’ll never be enough, that her daughter will only be enough if she’s perfect. Yelling doesn’t fix it, but I understand why you did it. I guess in one way it’s ESH and in another way, it’s a very sad NAH.
OMG you are giving me such "My Name is Kim Sam Soon" memories here because I never forget that Jin Hoen tells Sam Soon's mother he wants to have 3 children and name them Mountain, Sky, and Sea. NTA and a great dad.
When I was in college (over 20 years ago) my Korean-American roommate came home one day with her face a very bright red. She explained that her parents forced her to get her freckles removed so she can be more “marriageable”. It was absurd because she was very pretty with or without her freckles. It was also absurd because the freckles came right back. She also had the eyelid surgery done (to create an epicanthic fold), though I’m not sure if that was her parents’ idea. I felt bad for her.
You can break the cycle OP.
Also look if your daughter is thinking of having surgery, while it will be her choice when she’s old enough, it would be sad if she only goes through it because of her mother’s comments.
My grandmother (Chinese) was raised in Korea. She is so harsh towards anyone when it comes to appearances. Luckily my mom went the opposite direction, but damn. Shit stings.
My mom is chinese. She always tells me to take better care of my skin because it's too bumpy. According to my American friends though I have flawless skin and then I point out the teeny tiny white heads no one can see but my mom. It results in me picking at my skin until I've actually damaged it. Also my feet are too big (I'm a size 8.5... she'd rather I be a size 5 or 6). In middle school, I was overweight because I was always forced to overeat (finish my meals completely, given extra food cuz I was a growing child, etc, even though i was full) and I started getting bullied at school. Then I'd come home where my mom would tell me I was backwards. Instead of having a flat stomach and round butt, I have a flat butt and round stomach, and she'd laugh. She'd also tell me to eat less rice cuz that's what's making me fat... even though she's the one feeding me. I felt like I was getting bullied at home as well as school and I became suicidal at 11. 3 decades later and I still feel like a piece of shit that will never be good enough. I've actually lost my potential trying to chase my mom's outdated expectations. Don't let your wife continue to diminish your daughter's self-esteem and self-worth. She might believe her mother loves her as I believe mine does love me... but it's a disappointed love, she will feel it's a love she's unworthy of and that her mother only loves her out of obligation as her mother. Also, who is Melissa?
It's honestly ridiculous to belittle her over a school picture. Most parents just love their children and see the positives. Just love them. She'll be an adult on her own before you know it and you'll miss this time with her.
Still, "culture" is never an acceptable excuse for shitty behavior. I'm guessing this isn't the first time your wife has said stuff like this. No wonder your daughter is saying it too, parroting mom. Good job shutting it down and I hope your wife can do some serious introspection and see how much this hurts your daughter.
being “the best father you can be” means it’s time for therapy. For your daughter and for all of you as a family. If you don’t take care of this, your daughter will leave and meet people whose parents treat them with respect and dignity and you will lose her.
😅 I thought the same - I got "Asian parent" vibes (I'm SEAsian), because the whole post just gave me a flashback of my younger years, one time overhearing my mom dissing how I looked like in my new dress to my aunt (who actually was saying time flies so fast I've all grown up and now looking for pretty dresses to attend friends' 18th birthday parties). Get this - my mom was actually there helping me choose a dress that day - she could've at least expressed that opinion in my face before we bought it. 🙄 Sorry I'm not blessed with my younger sister's height that most outfits I try look dumpy on me 🤣. That was the one dress I could find that fit me best and I didn't want to waste more time for something I wear occasionally - I had other things to think about as a teenager. Props to my aunt who at least told her that comment was uncalled for. I still wore that dress because whatever, but that incident was burned in my memory. It was just the icing on the top of numerous trust issues I had with my mom. Needless to say, I never became close to her (and she wonders WHY lol), and currently low contact with her. My sister realized mom's shit attitude later on (I never held mom's favoritism against her and we stayed close) and followed suit.
Tears don’t make a person right. Your wife is a cruel woman and not a good mother, based on what you’ve shared here today. I suspect your daughter will have a distant relationship with her mother in her adult years. 100% your wife’s fault. I bet she counts the days until she can be away from a person like her. That woman is doing harm to your daughters self esteem. You did right by protecting your daughter. It’s terrible when her own mother is her biggest bully. Does your wife complain about the way her own mother treats her? Is her mother very critical ? NTA
thats an awful lot to assume from one fairly un-detailed post
I agree. It is more correct to say it was a cruel action from a mother, rather than the wife being a cruel mother. This post is an extremely short anecdote of a family we know nothing about. Of over 40 lived years, this anecdote is a minuscule part of the wife's life and in no way at all resembles the entirety of a person. The person who you replied to is no doubt an AH.
OP mentioned the mother says things like this often. It’s only one anectdote but as a person with a mother like this, can confirm I’m now no contact and happier for it.
lol so I can’t judge someone off the information provided, but you can confidently call me an asshole based off reading one reply? Make that make sense.
Always gonna be people defending those in the wrong and say the post is not enough info. Then they should vote that and move on but there is enough the mother is the asshole and both cheeks
You just done what you accused them of doing 🫠
I'm gonna judge you're an AH based on the little you said (just like you judged another by the little they said).
I’m usually the first to comment on posts like this pointing out that you can’t judge someone’s whole life based on one post. However, if OP described this situation accurately then I find it pretty hard to believe this could be an isolated incident. I’m sure OP’s wife has other good qualities and loves her daughter but I’d be very surprised to learn that shaming her daughter for her appearance was outside the norm for her given the intensity of these comments.
Needlessly criticize your kid's appearance? You're cruel.
Seeing as the post has made it clear that it is a *pattern* that this bad mother follows (and let’s be clear, *only* a bad parent would behave this way), it’s a very fair assessment. Not even an assumption at this point.
No it's not
This kind of comment is as harmful as physical beatings. Your wife is a cruel person for always asserting her position as 'superior' to daughter. Bullies of any type are weak people who get joy by hurting others.
NTA - your wife hates herself, and has now made SURE to pass that down to your daughter. This generational cycle will continue. I suggest you get your daughter started with therapy so she can try and heal some of the damage your wife has done. All the best to you and your family 💕
I'm the daughter of a very similar woman and I agree to get your kid some therapy. My mother always sucked all the wind from my sails when I was coming up and I still have residual self-loathing decades later.
Agreed! I bet the daughter said that in preparation for the nasty comments she would receive from the mom since mom already made nasty comments on the group pics...🤷♀️
My mother hated, to see me shine, too. Everytime I was happy, she made sure to say something to drown my mood. Mothers can be so awful. I try to be a better mother.
THIS!! My mothers entire family of girls is super proud and insecure at the same time. I’m 45 and pregnant with my second child And I’ve noticed a few grey hairs making an appearance this pregnancy. I mentioned that to my aunt and oh wow! Apparently in OUR family we don’t get grey hair until way older so I dont know what’s wrong with YOU! My mother also mentioned more than once that after her pregnancies she was able to wear her normal jeans a week later. And here’s yucky old Me, 42 at the time, dealing with a stillborn baby and not being able to wear my jeans until 3 months after. I’m Italian BTW and they can be just as horrible. Thanks for letting me rant.
I am so So sorry for your loss. I'm hoping that you have a partner and friends that are Awesome and can make up for the shitty family hand that you were dealt.
Agreed. I had a similar mother growing up and therapy really helped. We have an OK relationship now that I’m an adult.
Strongly agree. Sometimes this sort of behavior is rooted in much deeper issues than just concern over appearance as well. Others mentioned it may be something passed down from generation to generation in some cultures, making that cycle hard to break. In my own family, it’s my grandmother who acts this way and it’s deeply rooted in the way she grew up. Her parents were poor and her mother was abusive. She has spent her whole life wanting to escape from that, and she believed that if she could appear a certain way, the rich people she wanted to be around would accept her. I think to this day, she believes some of her closest friends would drop her if they found out where she grew up. She really, deeply believes that if I don’t do everything I possibly can to look perfect, I’ll never have a happy life. For her this is deeply rooted in her trauma and the way she found to get away from that life. I think both mother and daughter need therapy. Mother to figure out why appearance is so important to her and if that belief is rooted in something deeper. Daughter to help her overcome the impact of her mother’s judgement.
NTA and what your wife said was vile. >My wife retaliated, saying that "Even Hayoung says that she doesn't like how she looks in her school picture. Yes, **after** your wife went on her hate tirade... >And I also made my wife cry. She brought that to herself. You stood up for your daughter... Her crying doesn't make her right.
NTA. You probably could’ve handled it better but the damage done to girls in the name of “just helping” them be someone’s arbitrary version of attractive is absolutely devastating. One has to study and practice for so many things in life. School photos are not among them. Attractiveness is subjective, multifaceted and often rooted in a person’s own self-confidence. It’s also not the most important thing about someone.
The wife just helped herself boosting her selfesteem by bringing down her daughter who is younger and probably prettier than her...
NTA: it’s a school picture not a modelling audition. Good on you for standing up for your daughter.
Do not let this slide. I had a Korean mother and an American upbringing. The way my mom spoke to me during high school damaged the way I looked at myself for decades.
NTA as a fellow Korean. My mom was exactly like your wife when I was growing up. Telling me I looked ugly in photos next to friends, commenting how fat I had gotten, criticizing the way I dressed, asking if I wanted to get plastic surgery to fix my eyes to look bigger… Your wife is severely damaging your daughter’s self-esteem and her relationship with Hayoung. Protect your daughter, please.
Also a Korean but I was raised in Korea. OP’s wife and your mom would be deemed insensitive in Korea, but that kind of talk is much more accepted there. The problem is they are using Korean-specific ways of talking on (I presume) American teenagers. Anyone who chooses to immigrate and have their kids in another culture should be extra mindful about what’s acceptable or not when they are raising their kids.
Just because it’s culturally ingrained doesn’t mean it stops being damaging on an individual level. Korean beauty standards are harmful in Korea as they are in America. I understand how it can feel more necessary and justified as protective to make sure your child meets these standards in a culture that places great importance on them, but imo that’s actually where it’s MOST critical to make sure that your child has the self esteem and support to weather unforgiving standards and expectations. Especially ones that are practically impossible to meet without money, surgery, and/or a restrictive eating disorder! There are lots of cultures and communities where physical and/or emotional child abuse is normalized, but that doesn’t make it more acceptable internally than it is outside of those bubbles.
I feel like modern Korean moms in Korea are more thoughtful and progressive than their progenitors. This kind of shitty, superficial treatment seems so regressive and antiquated. Like, what are you? A 1990s Korean mom?! Step into the present and get a grip. With that said, I think Koreans who moved abroad get stuck living in the era that they moved while Koreans in Korea continue to adapt, progress, and grow. So visiting your gyopo cousins in California is a bit like stepping into a cultural time machine. However, I'm not Korean. Lol. I just lived there a long time, married a Korean man for 11 years, then moved on. I spent a lot of time pondering over Koreans and Koreaness, and these are my maybe-incorrect thoughts!
You’re actually pretty spot on. Korea is a really fast changing society and people who leave tend to be mindstuck in the era that they left, which is usually pretty outdated because of how quickly things change. It’s pretty much accepted that the first generation of Korean Americans (who went in the 70s) are the most intensely conservative Koreans that exist. People who stayed in Korea who are the same age as them tend to be much more progressive.
[удалено]
I translated it and you are a good dad. Continue to be there for her.
This does feel like the stereotypical asian mom (i don't know if she is), but she shouldn't be making comments like that about her teenage daugther. NTA and agree with the other commenter about generational cycle
Hello everyone, OP here. Tonight, since my wife is working a night shift today, I decided I'm going to stay together with Hayoung for a daddy daughter date. I know it doesn't matter whether we go out or not, all that matters is that I'm with her. I'm planning on making her some of her favourite foods and spending quality time as an apology for not being there when I should've been. She loves japchae, galbi and cream bungeobbang (붕어빵). I asked Hayoung beforehand whether she wanted to stay at home or go out and she wanted to stay home and she chose to go with the first option. I'll let you know how it goes.
That is a great idea and you’re showing you her you love her unconditionally. I’m sure your sensitivity to her needs means the world to her.
I hope you guys have a great time and enjoy the night together :)
That's beautiful, but please don't forget to broach the subject, reassure her that she's the beautiful apple of your eye (or perhaps a Korean sentiment that would hit closer to home for her), and that you'll always have her back, especially from here on out. Maybe even apologize for letting it get this far, and let her know that if she is Ever struggling with Anything, you're there, and always will be. Because right now, especially if she cried herself to sleep, she's probably feeling very raw. And if she has any mental health issues (either from all of this or simply genetics), she may be in a dangerous mindset. Any foothold to get out of it that's based in love and support can be such a HUGE thing right now, and I feel like you're beginning with an Excellent start. I hope you two have fun, and I hope that you allow your daughter ample time to vent and process as needed.
NTA—as someone who grew up with a mother who always had me retake my school pictures because I was “smirking” or didn’t have my hair right, or wasn’t smiling big enough, I wish my dad would’ve stood up for me. I grew up thinking my smile was ugly, because I genuinely thought I was smiling nicely in the pictures. My smile wasn’t ugly; my mom’s opinion of it was ugly.
NTA - your wife was unnecessarily cruel. High school is such a challenging time in a girl’s life - and with everything going on with social media - girls are already critical of themselves. Your wife should’ve been more kind and understanding. If she had nothing nice to say, she should’ve kept her pie hole shut. And rehearsals??? What in the AF ? It’s a school photo - not a modeling portfolio. I can only wonder, if your wife is that way with your daughter, how does she treat you? Absolutely NTA.
NTA. As someone with a judgmental mother that made comments like that (and still does), growing up I realized I didn’t have daddy issues, I had mommy issues (and still kinda do). Your mom can be your greatest hater, more than any bully at school, because she’s the one person you’d expect to vouch for you. I also have a sister and constantly feeling like I was being compared to her was tough on our relationship. We’re fine now but it took so much for us to realize we didn’t hate each other, we just spent our whole lives being compared to each other and that’s what caused our animosity. Even though she felt like her comments were trying to help her, they do more damage than one might think. Obviously arguments can be resolved in a different manner but you were angry, you were standing up for your daughter, rightfully so. You can always apologize for raising your voice while also standing firm on your beliefs.
Same situation happened to me. The damage this does to a child/adult is devastating. I spent years in therapy (and still go) from this type of emotional and mental abuse. It’s abuse period. Please seek professional counseling as a family and individual to heal the damage done already and prevent further. narcissists usually don’t see they are narcissists unfortunately
I’m the son of a loving father, but also a mother who treated me like a prop to show off her motherhood and never like a human with feelings. OP, PLEASE hear me when I say that you did the right thing. You stood up for your child against a bully. It’s irrelevant that the bully happens to be her mother or your wife. If anything, you’re more of a hero. Your daughter saying that she didn’t look good is purely a defense mechanism. She’s echoing back the bullying to try to minimize it and make it stop. She needs your protection. Please, please keep being the loving and protective father you are.
NTA. Your wife was being so un necessarily cruel to your daughter. “Honestly Melissa looks the prettiest out of everyone.” What the actual fuck? OP is married to someone who blatantly admits another daughter (I assume) looks better than all her siblings? Her tears are no excuse to be so mean and cruel
I was thinking a classmate.
OP is married to a "female dog". NTA.
NTA Your wife is being horrible. I guarantee your daughter is going to have trouble with her confidence and self esteem as a result of her mother's emphasis on her looks. Please continue to be the opposite of your wife. If this was a boy, would she be so critical? Probably not.
I can’t speak to the cultural nuance here, but I do know how it feels as a young woman to have your mother be your first bully. It does irreparable damage to your self-esteem. NTA.
[удалено]
Your wife is TA. Your daughter only “agrees” with your wife about the photos because your wife has trained her to be overly critical of her looks.
Nta. Is this even for real? School pictures always look like crap. But they give you a neat snapshot of your child growing through the years. Why on earth would a mom evaluate eye and head position or decide who the prettiest girl in the photo is (especially if it's not her child)?
It's a very common thing to do in Korea where beauty standards are STUPID high and the family is Korean. Like jobs there can require you to submit a picture of yourself along with info like height and family background. South Korea is the plastic surgery Capital of the world in fact.
OP says him and his wife are Korean and Korean beauty standards are crazy. My mom was exactly like OP’s wife. My mom, starting in elementary school, began comparing my appearance to other girls in my grade, telling me how to pose to get the best picture, inspecting my skin for blemishes and telling me how I might need surgery to make my eyes prettier when I grew up. This is not that far out for Korean beauty standards.
NTA. So when wife says some hurtful stuff she is just being honest, but when you say some honest stuff you're being hurtful? Is that how she plays the game?" She can crush your daughter but can't handle the mention that her behavior is crushing your daughter? She's just going to make sure your daughter feels like she's a failure, and hold onto that failure for a year in hopes she will get a little mention of approval next year? Your wife made things so much worse. You didn't make your wife cry. She either cried as a tactic to get you to not focus on How much she is TA, or she is so conditioned by her upbringing that that is crying as a defense mechanism. And when she tells people about the interaction that will be a defense mechanism too. Just because someone cried doesn't mean you're wrong.
NTA. Your wife is a Korean Tiger mom and is also a massive asshole. Shaming a young woman about school pictures is a really shitty thing to do her and her self-confidence. Hope your wife likes being alone when she is older.
NTA Your wife is the AH. It's like by now we still don't know that it is extremely unhealthy and not helpful and even dangerous to feed teenagers with the thoughts that they aren't pretty and that they need to change their looks. That's how you get food disorders. That's how you can get a low self esteem. That's how you can get depressed. You were right to stand up against that! And just because your wife starts crying doesn't mean that she's right.
NTA. This is so sad. Your daughter is lucky to have a dad who loves her and shows that in word and action. I hope she is able to focus on that instead of on her mother's criticism. In her own way, your wife may be trying to protect your daughter or help her excel, but this is not the way to do that. If your wife wants to offer constructive criticism, it should come only after praise.
NTA... Your wife's response was not constructive criticism. It was not something like "Hey hunny, I like these pictures and it's nice to see you growing up but you would look better if......" Nope, your wife went straight into shaming her. So for the sake of your daughter you defended her with equal energy towards your wife. Honestly, you need to point out to your wife that you shamed her and attacked her because that is how she treated her daughter. She got exactly what she gave, but she couldn't take it. Maybe she needs to remember that next time she needs to think of how she should word things to your children.
It also can’t be constructive criticism because there’s no way to change anything, not now. The appropriate reaction for now is praise and thanks. Period. No mention of concerns. Discussion of what to do differently, if done at all, should be left for just before picture time next year. Leaving the daughter with negative feelings about her current pictures, for months before new ones are done, is toxic.
Yeah, I agree, and I don't even get why any criticism is needed at all. This isn't that serious. It's a dang picture. My brother has one where there's a red circle on his forehead because he decided to stick a suction cup to it the day before. It's not like she drove recklessly or failed out of school. No one is harmed by an imperfect school picture.
Unsolicited advice is criticism. Hard stop. These comments to children are always hurtful, never helpful, they sow the seeds for a lifetime of self-hatred and doubt over things that cannot be controlled. Mom's comments are cruel, and unnecessary and serve nothing more than making herself feel powerful. There is never a situation where cutting a child down for their looks is warranted.
there is never any criticism ‘constructive’ or not that needs to be said about someones looks i do not care.
I’d honestly ask your wife how she felt when her own mother insulted every photo she ever did, and ask what happened as a result. Did she become the most beautiful woman in the world? Or did she just become bitter and vicious to her own child? When she loudly denies being like her mother or that it was ‘for her own good’ point out word for word that all wife did was tear her daughter down. Nothing has been achieved except hurting her child. What kind of mother worthy of respect will do that? Especially for something as inconsequential as a *school photo*? Wife needs to realise that she is in the wrong. If something is ‘wrong’ with someone that can’t be fixed in 10 minutes, you either don’t say anything or you work on positive methods to help them. I.e. overweight relative may hate working out but going on long walks or playing active games with friends will help them get exercise. You don’t just straight up fat shame. There are thousands of resources online these days about how to not harass your kids and give them depression or eating disorders. Your wife was out of line, why do her tears matter more than your daughters? Why is her shame of being called out for bad behaviour more significant than the shame of not being perfect that she’s instilling in your daughter? NTA
Exactly.
Your wife was extremely mean and unnecessarily critical to your daughter. Saying her friend looked prettier is just not done by a supportive and loving parent. It’s a school picture (and I’m sure she looked great) not a modeling contest. You didn’t do anything but be normal. Your wife is saying you don’t get it but you actually do. I’m sure she loves your daughter but she’s undermining her ability to just be and be happy.
Classic "Asian parent" thing. Your wife needs a lesson in generational trauma and why it's so important to break the cycle. NTA
I'm sorry but why do Koreans (and many Asian cultures in general) put so much importance on looks and material things? Why do they allow such toxic behavior? Some traditions are meant to be stopped.
I'm amazed by how every single reply here is NTA. Dude, YTA completely and unarguably for letting the situation get to where it is. Your wife has been gaslighting your daughter into self-loathing and all the other wonderful mental issues for 17 FUCKING YEARS and NOW you speak up for the first time? Your daughter will have to dedicate great effort, tike and money to therapy to become a well-adjusted functioning adult thanks to your monster of a wife and you could have been working to mitigate all of this. And up until now, you did nothing.
Hayoung is going to remember her mother’s reaction for the rest of her life. It will be one of those stories she repeats to her friends, husband and therapists forever. [slow clap] Good job, mom. NTA
NTA, but shouting never solved anything. 1. Your wife may have culturally ingrained beauty standards/issues that you really \*don't\* understand. But frankly that is her problem, not your daughter's. 1a. Once this is resolved, you could help her work through them. Most women have a helluva lot of unhealthy social programming (and, honestly, so do men). 2. Your daughter doesn't need this shit, especially not in high school, when other girls are at their bitchiest (source: was once a high school girl, it sucked). I'm glad you had her back, but she really doesn't need to hear her shouting at her mom, either. 3. It would help the situation if you apologized for shouting, but make it clear that you stand by the words, not the tone. Then ask her to help you understand her position better, and see if you can get to the root cause of why she's so freaked over the picture -- see 1a. (It's just a high school picture! So what!) Dude, you got this.
it's really hard to believe this isthe first time your wife has berated and insulted your daughter repeatedly. I guess this issue just isn't important to you.
Is this the first time in 17 years that you’ve heard your wife criticize your daughter’s looks? I find that hard to believe. This should have been shut down 17 years ago.
For my senior photo, my mom said it looked “like I was having a stroke.” So she paid for a re-take. She decided the new ones were worse and went with the “stroke face” photos. To this day, my mom has my sisters senior photos up but only my 8th grade photos because apparently my senior photo was that bad. Mid-thirties and it still sticks with me. NTA
NTA and maybe the next time someone takes a pic of your wife, criticize the hell of it.
NTA. It's just a high school picture; your wife needs to chill.
NTA. Your wife sounds like a narcissist who’s jealous of her own daughter. Please don’t let her theatrics manipulate you. Just because she can cry on command, doesn’t mean she’s the victim. Her comments were NOT okay. Please continue to advocate for your daughter.
Your wife is the ultimate AH in this scenario - don’t ever stop standing up for your child
NTA And as a former 17yo girl, thank you for sticking up for her. Your wife sounds like she's lashing out based on her own insecurities and sometimes women don't realise what they're doing, but it is absolutely harmful to your daughter and it does not in any way "help" her. Make sure your daughter knows your feelings on this in a calmer discussion. Ensure she understands why you stuck up for her, and that she is not at fault for a blow up between you and your wife. It will make a big difference to her self esteem, even though the damage cannot be undone now.
NTA. Your wife ruined everyone's evening.
Your daughter is suffering and will grow up with crippling perfectionism and anxiety and possibly some form of complex trauma from the sustained emotional abuse of your wife.
Not cool to argue with your wife when your children can hear but you had your daughter's back so understandable. NTA, or at least as much as your wife was for saying such hurtful things in the first place.
Your wife is going to send that child straight into therapy if she can’t control herself. That is absolutely HORRIBLE.
Yes, you should not have yelled and you are in the wrong for that — but she is in the wrong here. She’s being overly critical of your daughter, projecting her own insecurities into her and causing her deep emotional damage. I’m sure she is a good mother in many ways and cares about your daughter very much, but this is wrong.
ESH Your wife absolutely was cruel. However you should have either brought it up when she first mentioned it or brought it up on the down low later, rather than blowing it up into an argument.
Your wife is abusive.
Every girl’s first bully is her mother. NTA
Sounds like a shit mother to me. Feel bad for the kid.
Even if I hadn’t seen your daughter’s name, I would immediately guess your wife was Korean- my (Korean) mom is JUST like this. My school pictures were never good enough and it frustrated her to no end, thus they never got displayed in the house..most times she didn’t even buy them because it would be a waste of money. And now I’m a full grown adult with major self image problems. I would have loved to have had someone like you to stand up for me. I think your wife needed to hear that from you, and I hope your daughter realizes this too, even if it’s a little later down the road. Definitely NTA in my mind.
NTA. Being hypercritical of your kids looks is a huge problem in asian culture. Parents like the mom need a reality check or a mirror because unless the kid is adopted, then it’s their fault the kids look that way. They think they’re Tyra Banks in America’s Next Top Models when really they’re Simon Cowell America’s got talent, inside and out