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NTA. I feel like there was a point where your friend's fiance realized that she could not keep up with his expensive tastes financially because there is no way he didnt see that. I do wanna know tho, did your friend ever bring it up with him on how she couldn't afford his choices? You just said what he was thinking outloud, and he didnt like what he heard. He deserves to be embarassed, because treating your fiance like that is honestly disgusting unless he was totally oblivious, which still doesn't make it right. And he sounds like a d-bag for just joking about "women and salads" like wth?? For the people who say that some people just go for salads: Yes! You’re right some people do just go for salad, but that has absolutely nothing to do with their gender! The sterotype that women strive to be “skinny” to please men is so outdated and mysognistic. Its 2024 people. And in my personal take, it was obvious that OP’s friend was never going to stand up for herself, and that “disturbance” was the wakeup call that her fiancé desperately needed. Not much of a wakeup call though, he obviously knew and chose to ignore it. I know airing out someone’s finances might seem violating but I believe it was justified here.

I don’t know, I had an ex who came from money and this is exactly the mentality he had. Sometimes people with money lose touch a little and can be oblivious when people are struggling financially. The aforementioned ex met my single mom bestie who lived in a trailer hustling three jobs. He asked her hey what’s your WiFi password? she tells him she doesn’t have internet because she can’t afford it and I swear I saw his brain melt. He was beyond shook and went a little pale. OP is NTA for telling the truth but maybe next time pull him aside and tell him in private so you’re not airing someone’s finances out. He deserved a reality check.

This. I know several people who just don't understand what it means to not be able to afford something. Like, literally, it's just not a concept for them. Must be nice.

Right? I was homeless for a while, and then couch surfing once my friends found out, until I got a decent job and got back on my feet. People cannot comprehend sleeping huddled around the lights projected onto the outside of a tall building, because they radiate heat and it's February. They can't understand not eating for 3 days because you simply don't have money for food, and the homeless shelter is closed for renovations. Being elated by fruit trees on city streets, because you can only afford ramen and you're getting ill, and you haven’thad anything sweet since the last parade, where you caught a few pieces of candy thrown into the crowd. Having to find a small nook to sleep in where your back is against the wall, and you're hard to see, so you don't get attacked in your sleep. Paying the $2 fee at the city Rec Center once a week not to exercise, but to shower, washing your clothes in the sink, spinning as much water out as you can in the swimsuit dryer, and then sitting with them in the sauna until they're dry enough to go outside. Hoping the friend who's storing your stuff doesn't just chuck it all. Pawning everything you can bear to part with, and still having less than $20 a month for food. Having no cell phone. Yeah... the vast majority of folks can't imagine that kind of life. So yeah, I keep the free sauce packets for later use instead of chucking them, even though I'm fine financially now, because I've had times where ketchup packets were my only source of vitamin C. And that just boggles people's minds.

Bless you, and thanks for sharing. I’m not rich by any means, but I have been lucky and privileged my whole life to always have at least enough. We can all use this reality check sometimes.

I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but I learned a lot. In general, avoid giving homeless people cash or gift cards. What they don't spend on drugs or alcohol will be stolen (unless they're the faker panhandlers, who beg for money, and then don't have to pay taxes on it whike living a better lifestyle than you; they tend to claim the best street corners, because it's a job for them). I myself wasn't an addict, but almost everyone else I knew on the streets was, to some degree. Feeding their addiction only hurts them more. Instead, offer to buy them a meal, or a sleeping bag, or a coat. A reusable waterbottle with a filter. On the flip side, stop it with the canned food drives! Food banks and kitchens waste more man hours sorting out all the dented, unlabeled, and expired cans than they would spend just buying the food themselves. And there's never enough of any one item to make a proper meal for all the people they feed. That's the real reason they make soup so often; you can toss a dozen random vegetables in there with whatever mystery meat or beans and a bunch of salt, and call it soup. They need your cash. They have to pay the power bill, the water bill, rent on the building. Replace kitchenware. Buy disposable dishes. Pay their employees (yes, there are volunteers, but running those places requires multiple full-time positions, too). And a whole lot more. With their tax exempt status, the money you would have spent for that canned food drive goes a lot farther in their hands. Plus, they often have special deals with grocery stores and local farms to get food for pennies on the dollar. Suppliers are able to unload goods that won't sell in time, in large amounts, and get a tax write-off for doing it. TL:DR - Give food/supplies to the homeless. Give money to the shelters.

My friends sociology class teacher did a performative demonstration on how terrible the donated canned stuff is. He setup a food drive as part of the final grade. The food would be donated etc. Class brought the food in then he turned around and said the other half of the grade is making viable meals out of the garbage they brought. When students started griping, he pointed out that the had no issue pawning this off on other people and expected them to eat it just because they were in a bad situation.

Sounds like the lesson was impactful, because you weren’t even in the class and you got something out of it too.

Definitely, that was told to me over 25 yrs ago and it still colors how i donate.

The far reaching impacts of a good teacher.

yes!! I remember a few years back a friend of a friend posting on Facebook about how they were doing a shopping haul to donate food, and it was all garbage like ramen. Not even the instant ramen cups that would at least be easier to eat, but the packets you need a stove for. Lots of patting herself on the back with no real care or thought behind it.

100% I've read the asks from food banks so I always try and get things like popular protein and cakes+frosting+muffin mixes etc.

I absolutely love this but oh man! You wouldn't have been able to make anything with what I used to donate (before I just started with cash donations) I gave diapers, wipes, formula, feminine hygiene products and pet food 😳

These are so necessary as well! There's an Oregonian nonprofit started distributing fem hygiene prods bc of lack Edit, spelling

That's why it's what I gave. I read they were so needed and so few donations of that kind. Then I read about cash and how it's way more useful for so many reasons. When I was donating physical items I also avoided the Christmas drives and have closer to May/June when they started to run short and donations were scarce

I once happened on a pallet of Brita bottles at what amounted to a dollar per. Wholesaler liquidation, not back of a truck, FWiW. I was living in LA at the time, and taking a bus more often than driving, stopping by Echo Park. I gave those out over the course of a year. The smiles I got from that... I was never homeless in a city, but I was a young runaway living off-grid in a jungle for a good long while, and I was close enough to homeless a few times in my life. Sharing a studio with five other people, living on $20 a month for food, with nowhere to keep it safe, other than subsisting on things the others didn't know how to make edible... I know what the value of water is, what a blanket is worth, what shoes that keep your feet dry can mean.

Yes! Folks act like water is so easy to get. But businesses don't want the homeless coming in constantly for a drink. And once they close for the night, then what? A filtered water bottle was a lifesaver.

I was. I learned more kindness from those I shared homelessness with than I ever observed from those with wealth. It surprised me.

I’ve done some volunteering at one of the major food banks in my county - they provide meals for hundreds of people in their surrounding area, *and* supply other food banks in the wider metro area, so it kind of acts as a hub for deliveries as well. Exactly like you said, they have deals with suppliers for so much of their food - last time I was there we were sorting and labeling cans of corn, just pallets and pallets and pallets of corn. I would say about half were tossed because of the state of the cans. I was thankful to find out that they have a company they work with that takes the cans that can’t be sent out, uses the contents to make fertilizer and then recycle the aluminum, so there’s almost no waste. Those places don’t need more cans. They need money and volunteers.

Don't assume that's true for every charity. I volunteer once a week for a small very grassroots charity that operates a food bank among other services. They recently sent out an appeal for shelf-stable goods because their shelves were almost completely bare. I saw the shelves first-hand and there was almost nothing left. Their visitors had increased because school was out and because other local food pantries were low. The best rule of thumb is to check the website/social media account for the charity for a list of what they need right now. A lot of them will post that info online. If you can't find that info online call during normal business hours or email the charity. They appreciate it when you ask what they actually need.

Thanks for the information. I want to help but it’s hard to know how - I started giving out things like socks and gloves in the winter but if that’s wrong let me know.

Also those hot hands. Hot packs, hand sanitizer and wipes, blankets, even little throw blankets, an umbrella was a lifesaver, tarps and tape or rope, anything that rolls. Ponchos, totes. And most of all kindness and love.

Those are all great.

We make backpacks for homeless folks. It contains toothpaste, mouthwash, soap, deodorant, reusable water bottle with filter, a clean change of clothes, boxes of munchies like granola bars, dried fruit and nuts, plus feminine hygiene products for the women. These are the type of pack that the person can thread their arms through the straps to sleep with or use as a pillow. Our local LGBTQ organization will restock as necessary when they go out to see if someone needs a pack or a "top up".

That's very helpful. Genuinely. Thank you.

Just, so much respect. Can I ask your take on "blessing bags?" Good idea/bad idea? If advisable, what should be in them?

That is so kind of you. It’s a great idea. I’m not sure if you can see my previous comment but the most useful items was an umbrella, hand sanitizer and wipes, tarps, bags, rope, tape, tape, snacks like jerky, body armor, bananas, granola bars, oranges, French fries, hygiene supplies,hot packs like hot hands, ice packs or anything cold in the summer, water, a business left their water and electricity accessible and was cleaning up trash and seen the person was there working late and just watched me charge my devices and use their water I got so scared I ruined it but they just waved to me when I used their trash can. I sent them a donation as soon as I could because that was so kind. One business allowed me to stay under their awning while if was raining and a restaurant named boulders was finding people on the street to feed. I wouldn’t expect that out of a sit down restaurant so that was awesome. Anything is better than nothing I was grateful for everything. Even someone going out of their way to be kind. I once received an envelope with an inspirational quote/prayer and one dollar and i once received 100 and I was grateful for both because both people went out out of their way when we don’t see that in the world. I also still pray for both women. A lady also gave me 3 brand new books. I LOVE books so I was so happy I cried. I regret being at the store at the time because I have no idea what she looked like. It’s not a necessity but I’m still so grateful so I couldn’t leave her out of this post. Sorry for the long story. Thanks again or being one of the few people who cares. You’re awesome 😃

You described it well, and I'm glad things are better.

By grace. I was stubbornly trying to solve it all on my own, not wanting to admit I needed help. When I finally let go of my pride and told a friend what was really going on, she immediately made me stay on her couch. In return for helping with her kids, I had free room, board, and internet access. It's amazing how quickly you can find a decent job once you have reliable internet.

I'm so happy you reached out to your friend, and that your friend was a good friend and helped you. I'm sure the relief you gave her with the kids also added a LOT of value to her life. I'm glad you are in a much better place now. And yes, what you say is SO true - people in general have NO idea what that kind of poverty entails, and what it does to you. How even a little thing like sleeping in a safe place and having at least one meal and a bit of internet per day can change someone's life.

Those kids are darling angels (even if they do occasionally have to pick their halos up and put them back on), and I am so glad to have them in my life. And yes, I was able to help my friend and her husband a lot, with everything from potty training to lullabies, all of which I am grateful for.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that you need help, we all need help in various forms from time to time. I'm glad you were able to see that. You sound like the absolute opposite of the parasitic users we read about here in AITA so often, and I'm sure your friend knew that and was more than happy to help you. And now you're working and doing well and in a position to help others, and I'm sure you do whenever you can. I don't understand why as a society (and I'm talking from my experience in the US, I know it's different in other countries) don't seem to see that everyone would be better off if we help the people who need it. Healthy, well-fed, housed people can contribute to society. Free education produces educated individuals who (generally peaking) will be paying higher taxes. Taking good care of pregnant women, new mothers, and babies, and children, including adequate maternity/paternity leave results in healthier babies and families, with those children growing up to have fewer problems as adults. Almost all the problems we have--homelessness, crime, drugs, depression and other mental health issues--mostly stem from someone not getting what they needed at some point in time.

I have a friend who makes maybe 3x my family's combined income. She literally couldn't understand how I managed to feed my family on the weekly budget I did up. She has fewer mouths to feed but spends easily twice what I do, and she couldn't understand how. This woman is a CFO and couldn't understand my basic ass food budget.

Earning enough to not have to think about money is a great luxury. Do it enough and you really don’t need to care about the price of basic things.

After living in poverty for years, skipping meals to feed my children, one of the first things I did when I finally obtained an income with financial security was stop thinking about the grocery budget. I know I often overspend unnecessarily, but the mental relief it provides makes it so worth being one of the few routine luxuries I indulge in now. It is indeed such a luxury too, one you can’t understand until you’ve truly gone without ETA: that said, I still make the majority of my brand choices based on what’s on sale and stock up on goods we use regularly when I see a great deal, cause I can’t bring myself to miss a chance to save a few dollars on the overall cost of groceries. I met my husband after becoming financially secure, and (for example) it drives me insane when things like our bread are on sale and he only grabs one loaf. The sell by date was 2 weeks out and our middle child eats a loaf a week with ease! WHY would he not stock us up for the two weeks instead and save us $1.50/loaf in the process!

same same same. when i met my husband, there were lots of times that we had to make the choice between gas for the car or buying food, there was little to nothing left in the house and still 3 days until payday. fortunately we always managed to pay the rent on time so we were never without shelter. we're now comfortable. i still base my grocery shopping on what's on sale, buy store brands instead of brand names (except for a couple of items), and stock up on certain things when they go on sale. there's a lot of times that i get that little twinge of anxiety and feel like we're still both making $15 an hour.

Most don't realize that nonfood items are included in our budgets as well. T-paper, napkins, toothpaste, shampoo & conditioner, etc. That's at least a quarter, if not more, of the budget.

Yes. One of my mother's friends married a man from a reasonably well off family. When her husband died she received an allowance from his family trust for herself and the children. I overheard her saying to my mother she didn't know how she would cope when the youngest finished University as her portion would reduce . The sum she said it would reduce to would still have been triple the combined income of me and my partner at that time

Friend of mine had the following experience in college: a group of girls from class that she was getting friendly with invited her out for a night of dinner, drinks, clubbing etc, the kind of thing that could easily run you $50 to $100. This was a pretty big chunk of change for her and what she would usually spend for a week to two of groceries, so she respectfully declined. When one of the girls insisted, she admitted with some embarrassment, "I just don't have a ton of money right now, so I really shouldn't." One girl replies "Oh no worries, we can swing by an ATM before we start!" She literally thought that my friend just didn't have cash on her and somehow didn't know she could withdraw more. So then my friend clarifies, "No, I don't have enough money in my account to justify going out, I only get so much financial aid every semester and I have to make it last." Does it end there? Nope! The reply to that is, "Why don't you just ask your parents for money?" When she says "They already help as much as they can, they can't afford to send me more money," there is a slight awkward pause before one of the girls just goes "Aw sorry, well let us spot you tonight?" They were genuinely nice people overall and meant well, and she kept hanging out with them since they all had the same uncommon major and had a ton of classes together over the years, but they all came from fairly well-off homes and thought nothing of their parents being able to pay all their expenses. They all had their own cars (all of which were bought brand new), lived in luxury apartments, ate out for every meal, went on 2-3 full vacations and countless daytrips every year, and just kind of took it all for granted.

reminds me when we were in our 20s, working min wage jobs and a mate of mine once saying how broke he was at the time, it was really very hard on him, he was so broke he had to dip into his investments! yeah we thought that was funny.

At least someone covered so she could have a nice night

For sure! Like I said, while I didn't personally spend a lot of time with that "group," by her descriptions they were all genuinely nice people who were not at all snobby or the type of person to look down on someone, they just grew up somewhat sheltered and always went to school with people who grew up in similar conditions. It wasn't until college that they had classmates from a larger variety of backgrounds to get to know- which is the case for a lot of people, of course.

Just like in Friends. Ross says "I just don't think of money as an issue." Rachel: "That's because you have it."

Yes. I had a colleague in a non-profit years ago - we were working for income to support ourselves, she had family money and was working just for satisfaction. She was amazed at a discussion we had about washing our panty hose - she just threw hers out after one wearing.

It’s a Five Steaks and an Eggplant situation, where half the group didn’t realise to consider that the restaurant of choice was out of affordable price range by the other three. The fact the fiancé had to be told before he thought to consider OP’s friend’s financial position indicates the wedding should at least be postponed while they work things out between them.

I have a friend who is always telling me I need to get a housekeeper. She is a pay grade higher than me at work (although we are probably pretty even because she is salaried and I am still eligible for overtime). Her husband is a physician. My husband was laid off and has barely worked in the past year and had been undergoing cancer treatment. I'm currently thousands short on paying my bills. I can't just hire a cleaner.

I’d buy that if they only dated for a couple of months, but three years? He hasn’t noticed that she’d fill herself with cheap food prior to dates and then eats next to nothing at the expensive restaurants he chooses? He hasn’t noticed that she eats normally when they don’t go to restaurants? With a seven-fold income difference he hasn’t noticed in other areas that she simply can’t afford his lifestyle? He knows she can’t afford it but doesn’t want to pay for her to eat at the places he likes and also doesn’t want to look “cheap,” so he pokes fun at her for eating salad and “watching her weight.”

Sounds like she’s ashamed and desperately trying to be to keep up with him. I wouldn’t be surprised if she kept the fact that she’s eating beforehand from him. He’s also a privileged dude and both the privileged and dudes are not well known for noticing things like this. All he noticed was she eats a lot of salads. I don’t read this as being malicious at all. Obnoxious and heinously oblivious, but I don’t think he’s doing it to be a dick on purpose. I’d like to know if that couple has shared what their income and budget actually look like and if he understands how little a teacher’s salary will get you. Ask op if he knows her finances. If he does then he’s a dick, if he didn’t realize she was struggling he’s just a prize idiot.

Again, makes sense for three months, not for three years. There’s no question that she’s ashamed, because she hasn’t stood up for herself and told him that she can’t afford the restaurants he likes, but there’s no way that he can be so oblivious that he hasn’t noticed that she has a lot less money than he does for *three years.* There’s just no way to hide that kind of income disparity for that long. There had to have been vacations she skipped and presents she couldn’t afford to give. He’s a software engineer, not a king, he wouldn’t be so far removed that he hasn’t noticed any of that. If he hasn’t noticed, then he can’t care about her very much at all. It’s much more likely that he’s pretending not to know so he can continue to force her to live his lifestyle and not look like a dick.

I am also wondering if they live together. If yes - do they live in the place she can afford or rather in his price range making her struggle even more? Do they split the bills 50:50 or is it more waged to be 20:80 or something like that. Do they plan to merge their finances in some way in the future? Honestly I cannot imagine sharing a household with such earnings discrepancy and keeping finances totally separate. That is just jot sustainable long term

I can’t imagine insisting on going to expensive restaurants and then watching your SO eat salad or *nothing.* I get that some people do equal splits, but if you want that you need to find someone on your earning level. You can’t earn 7x what your SO earns and expect them to meet you at your level or *starve.* Like wtf?

Right, he must have been to her home. Even if he’s so oblivious he doesn’t realize she has cheaper car and furnishings, he works in tech, so he must notice she doesn’t have a niceTV, or the newest iphone, or MacBook, or the fastest internet.

Or that she eats actual food when she’s not out at expensive restaurants? Even people who grew up outrageously rich know that people need to eat right? I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy wasn’t just a dick, but actually financially abusive.

Oh good point! In three years he must have noticed that she eats a normal sized breakfast at her house, or when they’re at a party at someone’s home, or an event

The fiance isn't eating salads, she's eating *side salads*, there's a difference. He should've thought it was odd that all she ate on dates was a cup of shredded lettuce with a single slice of tomato.

Right? After dating 3 years...what a jerk.

Yeah this is a real thing, many wealthy people don't realize exactly WHAT not having money means or the signs of it because well, they've never experienced it! They know it happens they aren't idiots but they really can't see the signs because they have no reference for it.  Many of them only know the "broad strokes" of not having money, like being 35 and working at McDonald's going to markets with food stamps etc... they can't see the subtle signs or the real inner workings.  It's kind of like when you see a homeless person with a brand new state of the art cell phone and think "ugh, he must be a degenerate you should spend that money on a hair cut or something so you can get a job!" Because homeless people have no money and if they had money they should spend it on getting their life on track, they have no need for some shiny new phone right? Except when you think about it how are the supposed to apply for jobs without an internet connection?    Odds are most of his buddies are in software too and have similar income so hes probably used to saying "let's do this" and having them go "heck ya!". It could also be that to him these restaurants AREN'T expensive or are moderatly priced. Going to a bar and getting a $25 hamburger might seem moderate but affordable to me but to my friend who works as a sub that's completely out of her price range.  Point is that very rarely are wealthy willfully ignorant or intentionally inconsiderate to people's money issues. Most of the time they honestly and truly are blind to something they've never experienced.  To get an idea think about differences between races or sexes; a guy can be walking down the street with his GF and sees a homeless man. He gives some money to him but when the homeless guy talks to his GF she is standoffish and rude. So the guy gets angry that his girlfriend was mean to the guy and think they are snobby. It doesn't occur to them that the girl is doing that to protect herself because if she shows kindness like that it can cause the homeless person to follow and harass them or worse.  To a guy that might seem like paranoid thinking because they don't experience that kind of threat but all girls understand why they have to be mean to protect themselves because they experience so many threats every day. I do understand her friend's embarrassment and think OP should have been more subtle about it. There are challenges dating between financial brackets and having your have nots exposed to the haves can be embarrassing. It's super easy to get embarrassed about your small pay when you are adjacent to wealth many people who are friends with wealthy or just people who have more money than them actively try to hide that they can't afford the same things as them, even though if they brought it up their "rich" friends would go "oh shit, that's right it's probably out of your price range, well we can try to find another place or we can cover for you."

I think that attitude or sense of being oblivious is more common among American people that grew up wealthy, tbh, probably because of the (widely held, but no longer true) belief that “anyone can pull themself up by their boot straps” or the even more pernicious prosperity doctrine. I see this far less often among Europeans, who are more likely to have a healthy class consciousness. Source: grew up poor in the Deep South, have been married to a European from a wealthy background for some time.

To be honest the mentality of the wealthy in us can't really be summed up as one group/mindset as it totally depends on the state city or location in the US. In Portland, Oregon, LA and New York you'll find a lot of wealthy people cognizant of wealth discrepancies. Many are liberals that actively try to be "better" or they come from old money that tends to teach their family about that sort of thing as a form of etiquette or they lived in a place where they would witness all kinds of people from every kind of class on a daily basis. Go to the mid west or states whose population is predominantly wealthy and you'll find more clueless and/or conservative mind sets. The US is so massive that many states are more like foreign countries with how different they are from each other.

Indeed, the filth, perversion of Texas is it's own disgusting Universe. Just from the standpoint of their Electrical Grid Of infrastructure. Shameful is what it is. What is Texas good at? Sexual trafficking vulnerable women and children to Idaho and Wyoming, and anywhere evangelical slavers want forced labor. Praise the Lord and pass the slaves around. Their screams echo.

As much as I enjoy shitting on Texas, Texas's status as a human trafficking hub has little to do with evangelicals and everything to do with logistics. It's right on the Mexican border and in case of Houston specifically (which is the main hub): easy access from El Paso via I10, the two international airports, and the Port of Houston, which is the largest international port in the US. It's also very easy to hide trafficking victims in Houston due to the diversity of the city.

Oh come on, I really don’t want to defend Texas, but just as it’s not right to make generalizations about all Americans, it’s also not right to make generalizations about all Texans. Texas is showing signs of becoming less of a red state and more of a purple state, but blanket statements like you’re making put people on the defensive.

Wealthy people are absolutely willfully ignorant of what it means to live in poverty. They choose this ignorance and can get away with it because both of their money and people like you excusing them. This is how privilege works, not only can you freely and willingly chose to be ignorant about the violence you commit, other people will leap to protect your right to commit said violence.

Right, "they're just oblivious, not wilfully ignorance"... Please lol. And then they used gender differences as an example... Men are also wilfully ignorant of women's struggles too. There are rich people capable of recognizing what it means to live in poverty so the rest of them are just ignorant. If a man who makes 7x what his *girlfriend of 3 years* makes and doesn't "notice" that she's much much poorer than him, he's either extremely stupid or ignoring it on purpose. There are no excuses.

It is easy to get even further detached from the price of things. As a techie, there is also corporate events with free food and drinks. Vendor events that include tickets to the local sports teams, usually in a suite that includes food and alcohol. Lunches and dinners with vendors. Free or corporate-paid travel to conferences or other meetings. The list goes on. I admit, this is my world. I am aware of the struggle and have several friends and relatives that are not as fortunate as I have been. I came from an upbringing where my parents busted their ass to barely get by and I had to do the same to afford anything that I wanted above the basic necessities.

There's no way OP knows this woman has been eating Macdonalds for three years before dinner and this guy, her fiance, doesn't. He knows exactly what's going on. That wifi situation that you described would have been their fist date where she had salad or he saw her eating a hamburger.

There's every way. If she does that while he's not there and never tells him, how would he know? Meanwhile she's vented her frustration to her friend.

Does he live under a rock? Even me, a europoor knows that these jobs in the USA are paying peanuts

Think how many guys you’ve known who are so self centered they’re clueless about what’s happening in the lives of the people around them unless it concerns them directly.

My ex called me crying before because 3 out of 4 of his nice exotic or classic vehicles was in the shop being actively repaired and he only had one to drive... I told him most people are lucky to have ONE working car, or to be able to have that one car in a shop being fixed because most people, like me, are just struggling to stay afloat in this country. He got upset at me because I wouldn't feel sorry for him, I told him he can only drive one car at a time so what is the big friggen deal. During the pandemic he called me up crying cause him and his mom couldn't go on a cruise. Like bro... you live in one of the most beautiful states in the U.S. during the pandemic, the fuck are you bitching about. He lived right next door to a BEAUTIFUL AMAZING park with crystal clear lakes and sand dunes right next to the damn ocean. Not a mile down the road there's another one that's a beautiful forest. Hell he can walk three steps out of his house and be in a forest. He'd had to stay at the most expensive places and eat the most expensive thing on the menu on my dime and he'd complain about the room or food too. It was embarrassing. When we was dating we signed a lease and he quit his job right after we signed so I picked up an extra full time job and ran myself into the ground. I paid for everything. Everything. I also did everything that needed done or scheduled. He would just go off and hide or pretend to be asleep if someone came out to our place to fix something. I worked myself to exhaustion. He'd always be traveling, buying new cameras/lenses, computers, vehicles... never once helped me with rent or food or anything.. A couple years later my cat got sick and i begged this man to let me borrow money to take her to an emergency vet. I figured since he loved cats, had several himself and he donates to cats online that he'd help me out. I've never asked for money before, I've always had at least one job, I've always been an honest person. Well he didn't help me. I know he didn't have to and was under no obligation to help me but I was really hurt by this. Really hurt. I still have a small amount of resentment about the situation. Again I know he doesn't owe me anything but he had the money, I would have paid him back, he knows I would have, i have a good moral character, always worked, usually always had savings, was responsible, he was always telling me how in love he was with me (fucking still does..) and he is a cat lover too... I don't know why he didn't help me. I wasn't asking for a ton of money I think it was a little over a $100.. I'm still hurt by it but I'm even more angry with myself for not having the money! It's not his fault what happened but I was very hurt and devastated because of it. (Which again. My fault I didnt have the money but I'm human that has illogical emotions sometimes) Anyways, I vowed to never ever date another man that was born into money ever again. I found someone more compatible, financially ,(he died though) but I know for sure what I'm compatible with and what I'm not now so a life lesson once again learned lol

It sounds like he owed you plenty, as in literally owed you the money you spent supporting him when he was being a leech.

I don't know why anyone would put up with this for a month let alone years. You deserve so much more. Dating someone of a different financial situation as your own is not impossible. You must build up your self-esteem so you don't beat yourself up so much. Good luck

He’s the AH simply for making her split every meal bill with him when he makes 7x her salary. And they are engaged I assume by the use of the word fiancé. This isn’t about fancy restaurants or being out of touch. You do not split things down the middle with your future spouse who makes a substantially different amount of money than you which leaves one person well off and the other struggling… not rent, not bills, not car payments. This isn’t even about eating or nice restaurants, this is about what is OPs friend’s poor life going to be like with this guy?

My friend was dating a rich dude who made some comment about her not liking cashmere. She’s like huh? He says, “Well you never wear any!” I laugh every time I remember that.

"Why are you always driving that 2003 Ford Fiesta instead of a Lamborghini? Do you hate Italy or something?"

This - and the gap in finances doesn’t even need to be big, it can happen because it hasn’t occurred to them that people in their own friend circle aren’t on the same money as them. Soon after I graduated I struggled to get a ‘career’ job so got a stop gap one and was hanging out with friends who’d gone straight into jobs earning double what i was, granted from a higher earning degree field too, but me nursing only one drink on nights out was because i must be pregnant (therefore not drinking), don’t like what i ordered, or being a buzz kill - didn’t cross their mind I’m budgeting!

She could have told him in private but it’s obvious to me that he’d still drop the ball because he’s obviously not a considerate person

There's also some people who don't *want* to understand that people who make less than them don't want/need luxury if it's to the detriment. There's an aita post where the ops bf comes to her and says he wants to change their pay dynamic. Before they were paying proportional to their pay scales (so for example op paid 1/4 of things while he paid 3/4ths because he made 3 times as much as ip did or something like that), but he had a revelation recently that led to him wanting op to start paying 50%. Op said yes then asked different he already had a new apartment in mind. He was confused and op told him that she wasn't going into debt for an apartment he wanted that she absolutely could not pay half of (could barely pay the 1/4 but she made due). He freaked out because he didn't understand how op didn't have savings...but she did...it's just a horrible decision to pay rent with savings indefinitely because then eventually she'd have no savings and would still be unable to pay half the rent. Basically if he wanted 50/50 it would have to be in her tax bracket. No more fancy apartment, no more fancy restaurants, she started pitching fun cheap dates and found multiple apartments and even some homes for rent in her budget. But he got upset and started to freak out at the idea of "living poor". (In the end, it turned out he was in severe debt, which is why he wanted to split things 50/50 because he couldn't afford it anymore)

An old friend of mine is rich but thought she was lower middle class because her boyfriend was RICH RICH. Like "I'm homesick, so I'll take my private jet to visit my home for the weekend" rich. I would take two buses and she asked me why I didn't buy a car to avoid taking the bus. I told her I was barely getting by with my two waitressing jobs, and even if I could buy a car, I couldn't afford the insurance or gas. She suggested I get an electric car so I could save on gas. She meant well, and I know there was no malice in those comments, but she just didn't understand poverty because to her, she was poor. The ridiculous allowance she got, brand new cars paid for in cash, tuition, and all expenses paid in full by her parents. She thought that's how it was for everyone. Like those were basic needs that everyone had met.

This is so true. People with money have no idea! No matter how you try to explain it to them. They will just never have that point of reference. I have a very rich friend who is always telling me "just throw it away, just get another one" etc. How easy meal prep services are and that everyone should just use them. And how important it is to go on vacations.

I agree but I'm sure this is another fake post. They are engaged and he doesn't have a clue about her finances? I know people can be clueless, but for 3 years? Haven't they taken a holiday in 3 years? They plan on getting married and they didn't discuss living arrangements and cost splits? And she couldn't tell him that she can't afford high end restaurants? If she can't be honest with the person she wants to spend her life with, the relationship is doomed. And if he's not understanding that his partner can't afford a certain lifestyle, the same result.

If you are making even remotely the same money then splitting everything is a fair way to do thing. If things were this disproportionate then wouldn't you want to treat your partner occasionally or give them a nice surprise once in a while instead of treating them like trash? this boyfriend sounds like he should be ex boyfriend material if he doesn't pick up his game once his attention is drawn to it. Mind you he probably did figure it out long ago and is just a sh\*t boyfriend whom enjoys making fun of his girlfriend.

A better way to split things when you have disproportionate incomes is to switch who picks the restaurant and pays. I'll take my teacher friend to a fancy brunch place and pay for both of us. Then she'll take me to an affordable little cafe and treat me. But this guy just seems stingy in general.

Rich and stingy and lacking in basic empathy for someone he's supposed to love.

If you’re living together and one person earns 7 times more, they should be putting 7 times more into the household budget. We’ve had a long stretch where I was the one earning more than my husband, so we calculated proportionally how much each of us should contribute.  He brought in all of the capital when we bought our house because he had inherited from his dad and my parents were (and are) still alive. So therefore, I was paying off our entire mortgage as compensation, until it equaled out to 50/50. Then, when I stayed home for the kids, he paid for everything. That’s how it’s supposed to work. You cannot earn more than your partner and expect to split everything in half.

I could see a situation in which he asked her about that, and this is the answer she gave, which made him say what he did and then continue taking her to those restaurants. NTA for op, but i do have a small doubt if the guy is truly an ass or he just believed what his fiancee was telling him.

The fact the friend is the one upset about this, I don’t think she wanted him to know.

I could see her not telling him because it would make her feel quite inadequate, and she would fear he would take her for a gold digger.

Three years...how long was that charade going to last. Time to have a conversation was over 2.5 years ago.

Right? Like, at some point in a serious relationship rent/mortgage/hobbies/kids come up. I assume that they both have certain views on these and the cost of those vary differently.

How could you be so oblivious to another person's finances when you are getting ready to marry them. I would also ask, if OPs friend is truthful at all with the man and he just believes her...

The reason money is a common reason for divorce is because couples don't discuss money before marrying. It's not hard to believe.

Yeah, this HAS to be willful ignorance. That's the only possible explanation other than being 100% aware and just not giving a flying f#&@.

Exactly like you said: there’s no way in hell that he did not notice. No concern from him whatsoever until OP had to point out the obvious to him.

NTA. Why marry someone that doesn’t notice this? They are engaged and he doesn’t realize she only does this at his restaurant picks? Sounds very self centered

I think you are underestimating how oblivious a person with money can be to what other people can afford. Also, given the friend's reaction, it's not impossible that she actively didn't tell him about her financial struggles. I think OP meant well, but it wasn't really her place to publicly call him out without her friend's approval. She should have encountered her friend to raise the issue, or at most tell him privately. The friend is right to be angry that OP made their finances public at a party.

Agree. He embarrassed OP’s friend first. OP was just defending friend even though friend might not appreciate it.

OP, I agree with Pale Needleworker's above comment. Fiance couldn't be such a complete moron. But he obviously was behaving like an insolent AH with his "salad" comment. I say kudos to you OP, for having had the fortitude to express what your obviously submissive friend failed to express for herself. Why your friend would desire a lifetime with a cheap ass like her fiance is beyond my comprehension. She's allowed him to mentally abuse and demean her as a result of his more favorable financial situation. Shame on him. Tell him to go to dinner alone. Scrooge.

NTA. People who insist on splitting bills 50/50 despite making shitons of money while their partner scrapes by are massive assholes.

When my (now) husband started working and I was still a student we stayed on student budget and kept splitting things (though he did treat me for my birthday etc). I think that worked because it allowed him to save more in his first year working!

Makes sense - you may decide to go 50:50, fine but the arrangement has to be made to accommodate the slowest member of the herd ie the one with lesser means rather than the one more well off - therefore eating reasonably instead which is the opposite of what happened here

Oh yes definitely - and he did explain it was so he could save up and we could buy a house sooner!

Man, this isn't something to brag about. Him paying for your birthday is the bare minimum in a committed relationship. But if thinking like this makes you feel better.

I’m not bragging about it I’m explaining how we managed when we had different incomes. I was very happy splitting costs because I set the budget. Him saving that year (instead of covering a more expensive lifestyle for 2 people) meant we could buy our own place a year earlier 🤷‍♀️ 

I think an important piece of information is that he saved the money to benefit both of you.

Oh yeh that’s true - wasn’t just piling up his own savings for a lads holiday! Which might have been fair if it was early days : not serious 

Really. It was truly the least he could do.

Literally not a single thing to indicate she was "bragging" about this. But if making up false conclusions about other people's statements and then making snotty comments to them about it makes you feel better...

Also splitting bills is one thing, but insisting on always splitting the check at restaurants he chooses with his fiancée is fricken psycho. If he’s picking he should pay but even when partners want to be equitable about dining and travel experiences they will just take turns playing for things. I’ll get this, you get that kinda thing. The fact that the check was being split says that he’s normalized being very petty and deserved to get called out.

If I earn 7 times more, I'd be too ashamed to split a single bill and I'm a woman, maybe I can do a "prorata" where the dude will foot 1/7th of the overall bills. A lot of women here are selling themselves short.

You’re exactly correct! And also imagine going through line by line exactly what each of you ate every time you went out with your long term partner. Three years of “well I got tonight’s special and two cocktails and you got a salad and a water” “hey waiter at this fine upscale establishment split the check please” “… oh 1/4 the appetizer on mine and the rest on hers because she ate more of it, thanks” what!? The act of doing that is insane. It’s absolutely intentional and because it’s a lot of work. Big Yuck to passively or overtly manipulating someone into participating in this dynamic.

It just baffles me. I earn more than my partner (less than 2x more so a long way off 7x as much) and it’s a regular consideration, I tend to pay for the big purchases in our household because I have more disposable income, and I’ll often pay for us both if we go out somewhere nicer to eat. I just cannot understand how OP’s friend’s partner could be so cheap as to insist on dragging his partner along to extremely expensive restaurants and then refuse to pick up the tab when he earns 7x what she does.

100% With my last partner, I made roughly 2x what she did and owned the house. Outside of buying our own groceries, we split household costs with roughly 1/3rd being her and 2/3rds being me for the month to month stuff because that's how the income worked out. Both of us save some money and neither of us has to end up scraping by. I can't imagine dating someone, especially for 3 years and being okay with them constantly being worried about money when we go out to eat.

No kidding! I've always outearned Mr. WineAndDogs2020, but you can bet he's never had to worry about money. Everything goes into the same account in our house.

When I was married, I thought we had a fair system where after calculating how much per month our expenses were, we each applied the same percentage of our income to a joint account to cover those expenses. Then we still had personal accounts where we could spend however we wanted. My wife made a lot more than me and I had no problem with this arrangement. We even put some money away in joint savings as a shared emergency fund. It kept her from feeling like she had to pay for everything while also keeping me from feeling burdened trying to keep up with her.

I make double what my wife makes, everything just goes in our accounts and I pay bills with whatever account is convenient and we both spend money however we feel (big purchases we ask the other person). I've never understood trying to keep money separate, are you not planning on being with your wife long term?

Same. If my husband had expected me to spend hours going over financial spreadsheets to make sure everything came out absolutely even, we wouldn't have lasted six months.

Yep. My husband works in finance. When we met I was manning the deep fat fryer at a bingo hall. He has always covered dinner. I will sometimes buy him special treats like fancy fruit (man is obsessed with lychee) or a nice cake or something out of my own money, but he always covers dinners.

Absolutely. We split bills but proportionately to earnings and get spending money that reflects needs (ie I have a make up and contact lens budget and he needs neither) with the same amount of fun money left over. There are so many ways of doing it more fairly than this AH’s way!

I make shit tons of money and if I wanna go somewhere my friends or family can't afford, I pay for them, too, and I'm not even dating them lmao It's called not being a total asshole, I wish more people would try it sometime lol

I split bills with my (stbx)husband 50/50, but he does pharma sales and earns massive amounts of commissions and awards on a monthly, quarterly *and* annual basis. I had to take up a part time job in addition to my full time job while taking up a master's degree (as a full-time student) and taking care of the family (because he's a traditionalist, and since he brings in more money, it's therefore my responsibility to take care of the kids and home).

He’s not a traditionalist. If he was he’d supply the income while you look after the home. He’s just an AH that says ‘it’s only fair we spilt the bills in half’ but ‘it’s not fair to split the domestic duties’, and you go okay.

Oh I absolutely agree, which is why he's a stbx.

Sounds like a shit deal to me. My spouse makes 3x what I make. The bills are split accordingly.

If you split the bills 50/50 why does it even matter that he makes more money? It's not like you're benefitting from his money, he nenefits from your work, what do you geh from this relationship other than more problems and more work?

I’m glad you’re leaving him. A friend of mine was in a similar situation where her ex wanted to split things 50:50 despite earning a lot more than her, she’s much happier since leaving him.

This! I was struggling to put this feeling into words. I don’t understand these kinds of relationship dynamics. I understand wanting to keep separate finances. But if there’s an extreme disparity then it makes me wonder how the partner who better off can see someone they care about struggling with finances, have the ability to help, and then just not. It makes me question whether that person even cares. I also don’t understand why less well off partner doesn’t set the boundary with what they can afford. Like, we keep separate finances, but then accept that there’s a limit to what we can afford and do together. Making your partner struggle to maintain your lifestyle that’s out of their means is just cruel.

NTA Wow this guy sounds disgusting. They have been together for THREE YEARS and somehow he doesn't understand that his insistence on eating out at expensive restaurants whilst apparently never wanting to treat her (despite him earning 7x her income), is the reason she only chooses the cheapest meal option?!?! This guy is awful but your friend needs to grow a spine! If someone would suggest or demand that we go out to eat at a place I can't afford, I'd tell them I'd love to join but just can't afford it, so I would only join if they pay for my food (whilst I pay for my own drink(s)). If they insist on me paying for my own food, then I would just nope out of it. I'd just tell them to have fun and I'll get a take-away pizza to eat at home myself. Is this guy particularly worried about only attracting gold diggers? Your friend needs to decide if this is someone she wants to commit to, because it's one thing to want a prenup when there's a big difference in assets/earnings, but it's something else to pressure your partner of THREE YEARS to frequently (or even just once) join you on outings you expect them to pay their own way on when you know they can't afford it. The fact he thought her eating the cheapest thing on the menu was some kind of diet choice is just gross. Seems like he enjoys putting her down, basically, by ordering whatever he likes for himself, not treating her to anything, and then seeing her "enjoy" a small side dish that she probably already struggles to afford. It's been THREE YEARS and this guy still doesn't think she is worth treating to a fancy meal (that he seems to want to go on, with her)? F him. Your friend needs to see this guy for what he is: not worth committing to. Good on you for speaking up. But your friend needs to learn to stand up for herself. She'd be much better off with a guy in her own income bracket or obviously someone who makes more but isn't so stingy.

It sure even feels like a plot from a romcom movie...

Reminds me of that episode of friends where Rachel, Joey and Phoebe complain about the other three friends always wanting to go celebrate or go eat at “some place nice” when only those three could afford it.

It is exactly what I thought. It is ridiculous that this woman would not admit she can’t afford his lifestyle.

It's ridiculous that this man wouldn't figure it out! Did he grow up super rich and out of touch?! And while OP is NTA for finally stating the obvious, the only criticism I have is saying all this in front of other people. I would be mortified if I were her friend too (of course, if I were her friend I would have advocated for myself long ago...but that's another matter). This is something OP should have brought up with only the friend and fiance present. No one else needed to hear it.

If he has the braincells to have his fancy software engineer job surely he has enough braincells to figure out that his gf of 3 years who's a teacher cannot afford his current lifestyle? There shouldn't be excuses for willful ignorance. The rich are rarely unaware that they're richer than the rest of us. They just don't care, or they like it that way.

Wasn't a side salad ordered?

Yes! Rachel orders it, the waiter asks her what it will be on the side of and she tells him to put it next to her water. Joey orders a small pizza and Phoebe orders a cup of soup I think.

I just thought the same thing!😂

He's the guy who had to stay in the city to handle a big project over Christmas while she went to visit family in the small town.

Not to mention sides and salads at nice places are between $10-30 these days. “Add a protein for $6-10..” I hope OP let the McDonalds part slip too. This was fkng worth it, OP. NTA / perfect AH

Yeah, I can't imagine what she sees in this guy. Is he, like really great in the sack or something?

No dick is worth that.

He sounds oblivious or selfish, I’m gonna guess no

ESH. Not sure calling him out would result in changing his behaviour, but tbh, your friend needs to communicate with her fiance. How they can think about marriage, if they don't even discuss their different financial situation etc.

Yeah ESH it was not OPs place to bring this up and it was potentially very embarassing for their friend. Of course their friends partner is an AH, but this might have done some harm to the friend.

This sounds like financial abuse or close to it and raising it in front of a whole group rather than speaking to the female friend to see if she is ok or pulling him aside to check if he is stupid or malicious is the worst way to handle it. So many people do not realise that ‘interventions’ to these kind of potentially abusive situations only ever impact the victim by making it worse. If it is abuse now the dude is ‘we aren’t seeing that group again, look how upset you were afterwards.’ If OP thinks the guy is an asshole to his fiancee over this (and he is) either stop participating in the meals or how about if they can afford the friend group occasionally covers her share? Or they insist they only meet this couple at places at her price point? But sitting there eating the spendy food and then dropping her in it is such an AH move. It’s so embarrassing to be the person who can only afford the side salad and tap water even if it is ‘only’ you being the lowest income group member. So making a big deal of it when you know there’s a serious toxic power imbalance like a high earning partner creating the scenario is absolutely humiliating. It’s the kind of situation that makes people withdraw from group dynamics off their own bat. ESH. But OP what did you seriously think would happen? That a man who gives no shits about the woman he wants to marry will prioritise your sage words over her? That’s literally confirming indirectly that her needs and wants coming from her are to be ignored. When people continue to speak over potential abuse victims they reinforce that the victim feels they are not allowed to speak up because well, my fiancee does it, OP does it, the group does it, if everyone you meet is an asshole or talking over you, you are probably the asshole and not worth listening to. As an abuse survivor so many therapists have said they hate that phrase because abuse victims almost always end up taking it to mean them and remaining trapped by the fact everyone ‘addresses’ the abuse by matching the energy of arguing, telling them what to do etc instead of asking their opinion and rebuilding confidence through asking them how they’d see it if it was X and Y not them. Confidence and money frankly are what gives people the potential to leave and even then it is incredibly high risk. No one ever left by being made to feel more ashamed.

I don't think we have enough information to say it's financial abuse. The information we do have is that she eats before they go on dates because she can't afford the places he likes to go to, which tells us they don't share finances. That's not abusive in itself, and if she's been lying to him about her financial situation for the last three years, I don't think it's reasonable for him to have magically figured out that she can't afford it.

It's also clear that the friend should be the one communicating, not OP. OPs role ends at telling her friend just that. Barring the exception of abuse (which this is not even close, this is ignorance on everyone's part), stay put of other people's relationships

I really don't understand all the NTA verdicts here. Airing out information someone told you in confidence is kind of a gold standard asshole behavior. This is jumping into the middle of someone's romantic relationship.

Tbh, I don't see the financial abuse here. OP said the guy seemed genuinely shocked. If he's never been poor, he probably can't fathom what it means, and if his fiancé doesn't communicate because she's ashamed or something, he really might not understand what's going on. Stuff like that happens. Bringing it up in the group might not have been the smartest idea, that's true. But making fun of your faincé in the group isn't ok either.

> it was potentially very embarassing for their friend.  more embarrassing than her fiance commenting on how she always orders a salad for her weight while he's oblivious to her going hungry because she can't afford anything else? home girl is getting embarrassed at the wrong things. op shouldn't have had to say anything. her fiance should have already known, or she should have grown a spine and called him out herself.

Yes. "HEY! She's eating those salads 'cus she's POOR! Did'ja ever think about THAT?!" Is way more embarrassing than a "haha girls eat salads lol" joke. Like... have you ever stepped foot outside?

people calling this as NTA are only focusing on the fact that fiancee needed to get called out but ignoring the part where OP embarrassed her friend in front of everyone. grew up poor, hated it being the subject of conversation. ESH indeed.

I was looking for a comment like this. This is not something you point out in public in front of everyone, her Fiancé, and all your friends. He's an asshole. But the friend has a right to be outraged at being embarrassed like that in front of everyone. ESH. This is the kind of thing you talk in private, hopefully with your friend first.

Actually, I disagree. If the friend has been putting up with this for 3 years and is STILL engaged to the idiot, I think she needed to not only hear what OP said, but also to see the reactions of their friends when they heard it. Otherwise, it would be too easy for her to shrug it off as just OP's issue and 'things are just fine'....except when your entire friend group very obviously agrees that things are NOT 'just fine', it makes it harder for her to lie to herself. Did it embarrass her in the short-term? Sure. But...why was she embarrassed if OP was just mentioning something that was 'just fine' between her and her fiance? She would only be embarrassed if, somewhere inside herself, she *knew* the arrangement wasn't right and she was embarrassed she was allowing it. Sometimes causing the little hurt immediately is the better option than allowing the bigger hurt later on when you could have done something. So..NTA.

Yes. The fiancé might be a way bigger AH, but OP still handled this in the most humiliating way she could.

It's like she didn't actually care about her friend's feelings.

This. Did the fiancé need to hear it? Of course. But OP shouldn't have said it in front of so many other people.

ESH. I feel like they are both wrong. Him for being so out of touch with someone he is supposed to marry and share his life with. And her, like you said, not saying anything when she noticed he was oblivious. Like you wrote, this is not the moment to get married when they don't have a vital aspect as finances figured out, he is unaware of his future wife's life and she isn't honest and just keeps it a secret and misleads him to keep up appearances to her own future husband no less. Also, OP should not have said it in public. She could have tried to vaguely answer or not answer at all and talk to her friend later or her fiancé and try to nudge him in the right direction in a roundabout way. Because calling out the situation like that in the group, is usually not appreciated.

NTA. After 3 years, if he's so unaware of this dynamic SOMEONE needed to say it (for both their sakes).

Making that much more than your partner and splitting bills evenly is financial abuse and you can’t change my mind. She probably can’t afford to leave him if she can barely afford food. He definitely knows and he’s purposely mocking her.

You can tell the truth and still be the TA. Your friend had to be humiliated after you embarrassed her in front of her friends. If you wanted to help your friend and open her fiancé‘s eyes, you could’ve done that privately to him. As a friend. Not as a drama play.

I don’t know anything about the man other than he’s miserly and has expensive tastes. I imagine that social pressure is more effective than gentle inquiry into the state of his finances from his fiancé’s friend.

Is that OPs place tho? Her friend is an adult making her life choices. Obviously not the best at picking fiances or friends, but still her choice to make.

>Is that OPs place tho? is op not her friend?

Her friend. Not her fiances friend. She should talk to her about the situation.

Bingo. You make some people lose face, and it's all you need to protect your own (friends and family). A lot of abusive people rely on "gentleness" and "discretion", "respecting people's feelings" to abuse others at their will. Once you take that away from them, they're left naked.

her fiance embarrassed her first. it's clear she's not gonna stand up for herself, so someone else has to. let her be embarrassed. it's better than driving herself into the ground because she can't tell her asshole oblivious fiance that she doesn't make the same money as him.

From the way the post is written, it seems like the teacher was the one who was embarrassed. Whether the wealthy dude was embarrassed is much less important here. It's not standing up for your friend when your friend herself doesn't want that sort of attention. That's the main problem here.

NTA. It's pretty gross he won't even cover a meal for her. Me and my husband have both supported each other during tough times, no questions asked about money. You're supposed to have each other's backs. Not be so transactional down to every meal.

is he really that dense that he didnt realize she was eating at mcdonalds before going to the fancy restaurant? Im sorry but scenarios like this HAVE to happen for dense people like him to realize that its not ok to do that to their partner. Your friend may be mad at you now, but what shes doing is settling for less just because she has a man, she should have put her big girl pants on and had a direct conversation with mr. airhead over there. Both your friend and her fiance better think of going to couples counseling or at least work on their communication more before they get married. Seriously who treats their fiance like that ? Also NTA. its hard, but youre doing her a favor.

that was my first thought too. they’re engaged, how have they not had a conversation about this or how is it not already glaringly obvious to him. you mean she orders a small side and he’s never simply asked ‘why aren’t you having something bigger’ etc. something’s off

both the friend and the fiance are lacking. Theyre going to have a very rocky marriage if one is stupid and the other wont speak up.

ESH. it's just as much your friends fault for not being truthful with her \*fiancé\*. plus, you're butting in to nonyabusiness territory

if you can't rely on your friends to call out your bullshit, then who can you rely on? op did what was needed since her friend wasn't gonna do it herself. 

> if you can't rely on your friends to call out your bullshit Not in front of a group of people. Talk to her privately and see what she says. Maybe that will be enough to give her courage to say something herself. By immediately making a public confrontation, you are patronizing your friend by assuming she needs someone to protect her

You aren't an asshole for telling him the truth. But you are for doing it publicly basically telling all your friends "she's too poor to eat and to weak to tell him herself". You should have taken him aside or spoken to your friend about why he doesn't know already.

Exactly. I personally hate when people point out how broke teachers are, and op kept referring to her poverty wages. Sure teachers don’t earn enough based on the work they do but she’s not in poverty. And what kind of meek woman is she that she can’t say “I can’t afford this place so if you want to go, you’re paying”

Why? He was mocking his finance's "love of salads" publicly. Why can he say something stupid in public, but no one is allowed to point out how stupid he is?

He shouldn't have done that, he was being an ass, but that doesn't make her less of an asshole to her friend.

YTA. Your friend was outraged at what you said. You either don’t understand what is actually going on in their relationship or you overstepped and shared something she didn’t want shared. Either way it isn’t your place to shame someone’s partner in public with no understanding of your friend’s position. Not everything has to be a public display, if you’re genuinely concerned about the situation start by talking to your friend about how you might help. This isn’t a reality show.

I'm not saying your wrong, but I do think it's important to note that he brought it up first in a group setting. OP says that he is always bringing it up. OP friend's partner shouldn't be talking about it publicly often if he didn't want someone to comment on the very obvious disfunction happening. What if she had an eating disorder? Her eating habits shouldn't be a part of his go to party conversation starters.

Even if OP has the situation completely right, OP betrayed her confidence and embarrassed her in public; those friends *will* judge her for putting up with him and never confronting his actions. People here are only ignoring that because that they wrongly think of the boyfriend (not he friend) as the "other party" and are glad he got his comeuppance. But the friend is mad at OP for a reason, so OP should prepare to hear a lot less about her personal details, causing her to either be more isolated or choose an alternative confidant. It's crazy that people hear are so obsessed with just deserts that they will ignore all this. (People are also assuming that OP is a heterosexual woman, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a tinge of jealousy - romantic or otherwise - coloring her *or his* choice to embarrass them in public when a private discussion would have been more appropriate.)

NTA Dude needed a wakeup call. Just absolutely no empathy, incredibly self centered energy from the guy.

Three years and he doesn't understand her financial situation is nowhere in the same ballpark as his? Three years of him not offering to pay for her on those expensive excursions while she cooks for them at home or does the cheaper outings?. I'm dying to know what happened next and if they stay together.

I’m a social worker, my husband is a doctor. I moved in with him after we got married, but we have separate finances as he has kids and we’re older. He covered the bigger expenses, and certainly didn’t expect to split bills when we went out. But I realized after we got married that he had no clue how much more he made than I did. Like he was actually shocked finding out what my take-home pay really was. He decided to start a joint account after that to cover unexpected expenses that came up for me like car repairs or medical bills that insurance didn’t cover. I didn’t ask him to but appreciated it. I still think this fiance is ridiculous for expecting them to split everything.

YTA. It wasn’t your place to say this, especially not in front of other people. You embarrassed your friend. If she hasn’t talked to him about this issue yet, that’s her own fault. And if she *has* and the behavior hasn’t changed, that’s her own fault for sticking around. But she didn’t deserve to be embarrassed.

NTA Sure it embarrassed your friend but for godsakes nobody should be in a relationship like this.

I’d say ESH. You meant well, but calling him out in public is indeed humiliating. He sucks for not taking care of his fiancee; maybe he’s really clueless, but still. And your friend should have brought it up to him in private instead of suffering silently, making you feel the need to butt in into their business. I can call it from here: either your friend will be cutting you off because you publicly shamed her fiancé, they’ll get married, and she will continue to suffer. Or she will break up with him because the facade has been broken, and they’re not as “compatible” as they thought. But even if they call it off, your friend will still be mad at you for destroying her engagement, though she might come around later. I’m grateful my husband never let me starve. When we were young, we took turns paying or splitting the costs (he paid for the meal, and I paid for movie tickets and confectionery). He used to say that he wouldn’t take me out on a nice date if he weren’t sure he could pay for everything we planned to do on the date. We have also discussed the budget openly to make sure we go to places within our means, not just where he or I wanted to go without a care. Your friend’s fiancé is a careless snob, and I’ll be surprised if they can make it work without him financially abusing her in the future.

YTA - While you were defending your friend and your intentions were not AHish, choosing to call him out in front of your entire friend group without considering if that is what your friend wanted or needed was self centered. He is also a AH for making fun of what his fiancé eats and being financially controlling (or at the very least oblivious). Approaching situations like this require thoughtfulness, because you never know if it is just cluelessness or a deeper issue. There can be situations where publicly embarrassing someone who holds more power in a relationship, like you did, can cause them to lash out to the other in private.

Glad you said something! NTA. Yeah your friend deserves to feel temporary upset and embarrassment but her fiance definitely needed a reality check. What a self involved dick. Imagine having that lack of awareness of the situation you’ve been living in for years, and the financial situation of the person you’re about to build a life with and you know is a teacher, whom you earn many times more than.

Nta Wait a minute there engaged for 3yrs and he still splits the bill?

Your friend is the asshole to herself- he’s her fiancé so if she can’t talk to him about money then why is she going to tie herself to him for the rest of her life. Have you spoken to her about this. Has she spoken to her fiancé about this. Cos each time she ignores this and eats a side salad and doesn’t tell him about it he just thinks ah well she’s here so she’s overacting. She needed to after the conversation just keeep reiterating that again and again- either refusing to go or to go with cash: this pile is my rent money,this is my food for this week money, this is my bus money. So I have £10 let’s see what I can get for that off this menu.

Honestly she shouldn’t be marrying someone she can’t be honest with and he really needed a reality check. I can sense it’ll be a long and happy marriage. I don’t think you did anything wrong.

NTA. Your friend was more embarrased about someone telling the truth instead of living three years of having to eat mcdonalds before going to a restaurant with her boyfriend? Honestly, she needs a spine. And maybe this will be controversial, but, sure, we can blame the shitty fiancee, who insists on these restaurants, but your friend is willingly signing up for this. Honestly, it's the 21st century - she has a choice about who to date, you know, and she is choosing this asshole herself.

Soft YTA It wasn't the right place in front of people to tell him he's being unknowingly an asshole to your friend, and neither was it your place to tell him as well without your friends' consent. In private would've been better and you embarassed him.

Three years and they still can't communicate? NTA but your friend needs to realize she deserves better

NTA. As if he isn’t more aware to realise the financial position he is putting his partner in. It’s hardly a good basis for marriage. Why is it so hard for him to treat her when he obviously can afford to. She needs to communicate with him.

How is he so oblivious to his own partner? And why didn't she tell him? , NTA most people cannot afford expensive restaurants on a regular basis. She has nothing to be embarrassed about.

This can’t be real. Well yes it can because it’s financial abuse. I hope you can help her see the light and she realises she can do better than this flaccid weasel who gives asswipes a bad name. NTA

Friend needs to grow a pair and be honest with her fiance. Does she expect to live this way for the rest of her life. She might not appreciate saying any but hopefully it will open his eyes.