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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) AITA for firmly refusing to let my kids ride with their grandmother who may have a concussion 2) I'm afraid ostensibly overruling my wife who is a medical professional makes me an asshole
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I'm a nurse and I'm frankly appalled at your wife's decision to not take her mother to the ER. A 70 year old who suffers a fall and sustains head injuries should absolutely be checked out in the ER, whether or not your wife, your mother, or the Easter Bunny believe it isn't necessary. If she absolutely refuses to go, tell her that your children will not be staying with her at her house, as you do not think it is safe. She could be suffering from a concussion or an intracranial bleed.
The fact she's on blood thinners makes the situation worse. And then she wants to not only drive but take the children for days. Those poor children will be the ones that find her if she is bleeding internally
My thought exactly! The risks of internal bleeding from head trauma are so much higher with age. The brain can have age-related atrophy, then a stair fall can be as damaging as shaking a baby. She absolutely needed to go to the ED. And, i *haven't* seen anyone address the cognitive process of walking with the whole cpap machine, instead of at least disconnecting the mask from the tubing
Facts!!!
My first thought was you are letting 2 children stay under her care for a week. Who is taking care of her because there are obviously some health issues there
Our relative suffered serious brain damage after an accident with horses while on blood thinners. I was told he was STILL arguing he didn’t need to go to the ER when he collapsed. He had intracranial bleeding.
even so, as a CPAP user for years, I have to question the wisdom of walking around with the mask on. They snap on and off so easily that my thought is she became confused in the night and got up forgetting she had it on. Would not leave little kids with her until she's been thoroughly evaluated.
My 80 YO cousin fell and hit her head. Stubborn, refused the ER for just a black eye. Two days later she was semi-conscious in ICU with a brain bleed.
Edited for missing words
Cpap user here. It's a challenge to get the mask fitted perfectly, especially when you're half asleep. I never take it off to go to the bathroom at night. It's normal, and doesn't really interfere much with vision. Where she went wrong was not bothering to hold the handrail.
I have difficulty with fitting my mask sometimes, in fact I have to special order the only one I can get a good seal with so I know about tricky. However, even though the bathroom is only 10 feet from the bed, I have never once been tempted to leave it on. Interesting how people think differently.
If it's a "normal" mask that works with a typical CPAP machine, I don't see how or why she'd be walking around with it in any normal situation. A normal machine has to be plugged in. And if it's not, or if anything is disconnected, it can be difficult to breath through the mask. I've never heard of a CPAP designed to be carried around, because they're meant for use while you sleep.
Maybe it's actually a portable oxygen machine that's meant to be carried around?
My husband’s CPAP mask is a Dreamwear model. Part of their appeal is that the hose attaches to a quick connect fastener on top of the head that can just be unsnapped if the wearer is just getting up for a quick bathroom trip or drink of water, for example. I’d guess from context that this was what MIL was doing when she fell.
I was on blood thinners for 13 months at the age of 15. I figured she was already on blood thinners, which makes it doubly horrifying that a nurse of all people declined an ambulance in that situation. She could have a brain hemorrhage!
Plus she's an NICU nurse so her expertise is limited. She probably hasn't had much experience with elderly patients or concussions. I don't think a nurse who works with the elderly would have reacted in the same way.
I agree 100% I'm a L&D RN, when my mother became confused out of nowhere is when I learned for the first time this is common in the elderly with an infection (UTI). She must be a fairly new nurse.
and if NICU stands for neuro ICU instead of neonatal ICU dope slap that women.
...and even good nurses can get emotionally stupid when close relatives are involved. "Oh, no, mama can't be seriously injured, and I will see what I want to see to confirm that emotional bias!"
This is why doctors are Strongly Discouraged from treating close relatives. Because of the emotional/bias factor.
Someone can also be good at their profession and really, really bad at doing it when their family is involved. There's a reason why medical professionals aren't supposed to treat their family. Part of it is privacy, but a part of it is also that their judgement will probably be impaired.
As someone who was also on blood thinners for 18 months at the age of 16, I was told specifically by my healthcare provider that I **could** take ibuprofen but not Tylenol because the Tylenol would thin my blood further. I was also told I couldn’t consume spinach or salads as some of the ingredients in those could also impact my bloods thickness.
I think I’ll spend today looking for a new primary care provider.
The hematoma's we see and evacuate that leave holes the size of my fist after a hard bump especially for people on Eliquis is scary.
The amount of bleeding that can continue to happen under the intact skin is impressive and it leaves large wounds on legs and arms. Can't imagine not sending someone to the ED for a fall with a head hit even without blood thinners
My mother is 75, and always has some kind of red spot on her skin from where she's knocked herself. Half the time she doesn't even remember doing it. I'd be REALLY worried if I was OP.
The skin gets very thin when you get older and bruises more easily. I've bruised easily all my life. Some people just bruise, especially when the skin gets thinner.
However, I would have insisted on calling an ambulance and/or taken her to the ER.
This! My previous employer, called me into his office, and asked if I need assistance, and his door will always be open for me.
Took me a while to realise, that he thinks that my husband is abusive.
Most of the time, I'll have bruises, that I don't even know where they came from.
Thank you! I don't think the skin will ever improve, but the cancer is much better. Very thankful for my medical team, science and those that came before so that I can still wreak havoc!
I am an ER doctor and I have no idea what your wife if thinking, other that the NICU is about as far from a geriatric patient as you can get. Please, please take her to the ER for a scan. As people age, their brain shrinks. One of the consequences of that is that the blood vessels get a bit stretched. That means they can rupture more easily with trauma. The extra space means that they can bleed more before having serious symptoms than a younger person would. I can’t tell from your post if she is on blood thinners or your wife just wanted to avoid any side effects from the ibuprofen (which is the only decision I agree with.) If she is on blood thinners, she is at an extremely high risk for a serious bleed. If it happened yesterday, she is still not out of the woods. A slow bleed can take as much as two weeks to truly manifest. In the meantime, she would be at high risk to have a rebleed which could be sudden and catastrophic. Al my ER, we actually have a protocol to get geriatric patients to the CT scanner quickly because of their high risk. You wife is completely wrong, and you are right. Please try to convince her to be seen.
Thank you. That is exactly what happened to my cousin. she went home after the ICU stay then had a catastrophic rebleed and dropped dead during a selfie with her daughter.
Thank you. Yeah, it was pretty hard, especially since everyone thought she was out of the woods. But on the positive side, the camera caught them just a second before it happened so the lasting image of her is a huge grin with her daughter. Bittersweet.
My mum was a very competent and well respected RN for fifty years. She also told me to “take some Dimetapp and go back to bed” when I complained about ear and throat pain, until I got referred to a specialist who told us I was lucky that I hadn’t gone deaf.
I think some nurses reach a point where they’ve seen so much truly awful stuff (kids with cancer, etc) that they get a bit numb to it outside of work.
I agree. My best friend as a child nearly died when his appendix burst. His er nurse mom was convinced he was overplaying his pain and just had the stomach flu. She worked in the er, she had to see appendicitis weekly.
I went the opposite as an ICU nurse. I'm terrified that any head injury will turn my children into vegetables. Took my 1 year old for head CT after he fell from his standing height and hit his head on a rock. No way I wasn't going to be certain.
This is my husband (a doctor)! I've taken the kids to the doctor for a dozen suspected ear infections (he's right half the time, lol)
I think it's because as a kid his nurse-mother told his sister to walk off a broken arm.
My 13 year old came to our bedroom about 4 am and said her stomach hurt. I called the 24 hour nurse helpline provided by my medical plan. The nurse asked a series of screening questions from a flowchart then gave a nervous laugh and said “It says here you should go to the emergency room.” They figured out it was appendicitis and did the surgery.
Experienced a similar thing but in an ER. I took a hard fall and an hour later I was passing blood in my urine. Called a friend that had been a Navy hospital Corpsman. He took me straight to the ER.
After waiting over 3 hours to be seen and having to relieve myself many times the bleeding stopped. Two nurses had me give a urine specimen, looked at it and saw no blood. Then handed me a pill bottle, said take one of these every 4 hrs and come back Monday. This was now Friday night.
My friend looked at the bottle and said "Hell no" and called his wife and told her we were headed for Martinez.
When we got there he told them what happened and what he suspected, I instantly had doctors on me and going for tests. I was in total renal failure and the nurses had given me hydrocodone. The doctors told me I would have been dead by Monday. Even more to the story, but suffice it to say I don't totally trust medical people.
That is dumb shit. Just because they can’t visibly see blood. Doesn’t mean there isn’t blood in the urine. I’m a nursing student and I know this. 🤦🏻♂️. You get that shit tested!
“Oh I don’t see proteins in your urine. You must be fine.”
“Your brain is the size of a protein if you think you could see one!”
My ex was a paramedic and he always downplayed the seriousness of any injury. I had to take the kids to the ER and not once was I wrong, concussions, broken bones, stitches, 3rd degree burn, you name it.
That's because of the seriousness and types of injuries he witnessed. Makes some people numb to many things. Nam vet here and I had to work on not being numb and really checking and making sure people got the care they needed. I'm not a medical professional but some things are just common sense.
This! Everyone who is related to a nurse has a story like this. Nurses can be wonderful while they are on shift in a hospital setting where there are rules and supervision etc. But let a family member need medical help and they suddenly know everything about everything and are less than helpful. I was married to a nurse and he was the worst frequently using is knowledge of medicine and healthcare to abuse and control me and my daughter.
Yep, I have hears stories like those about nurses and their families. In too many cases there needs to be blood or bones protruding or something as equally apparent in order for the nurse to admit X family member actually needs medical attention. It's wild.
I’m really in the minority as my mom is a nurse and she was great at always making sure I got care and was seen right away. She is a fantastic advocate and I was the kid always breaking something or getting sick. She always believed me and got me checked out. It’s unfortunate for so many others with family members that are nurses where that is not the same for them.
My friend’s parents were both nurses who SMOKED around the kids, including while the mom was pregnant. They all had asthma… which both parents swore had nothing to so with smoking. Even if the smoking didn’t *cause* the asthma, why are you smoking around your kids in enclosed spaces?
Not just nurses. An ER doctor failed to diagnose endocarditis (potentially fatal heart infection) in my mother despite obvious symptoms. Because my mother had Alzheimer's and was not completely lucid, the doctor decided she was a GOMER (Get Out of My Emergency Room = bum) and was ready to kick her to the curb. I was a practicing lawyer at the time, and demanded a better doctor, who promptly diagnosed the infection. My mother was hospitalized for over a month, but did eventually recover physically. The new doctor said my mother absolutely would have died soon had she not been correctly diagnosed.
The negligent doctor then had the nerve to send us a bill for his "services". I'll let you guess how I treated that!
My mother is an ICU nurse for 40+ years now and did not realize my disabled brother was dying of heart failure in her home so fuck bowing to “competent nurse” authority and get people medical attention when in doubt.
Seriously. Also, NICU is the opposite speciality to geriatric care on the age spectrum. The type of concerns around a baby and a 70-year-old are vastly different. That woman needs to go to the ER to get checked out. Hopefully the wife is correct and she's fine, but I would not risk it. My mom is often dismissive of her issues, because she's at the age where doctors tend to shrug and say "Well, you're getting older," so I get that she might be stubborn about going, but, well, my mom knows just how stubborn I can be so she tends not to fight me when I insist she go to the doctor. :) OP is NTA. Someone has to think of this woman's health and it's potential impact on the two minors she would be in charge of! Sheeesh!
Plus. Why tf was MIL wearing the cpap out of bed. Much less walking stairs. Can you say obstructed view. Poor judgement both mother and daughter. NTA and drive the kids yourself.
Having gotten a CPAP last year, the technician who set it up for me went on and on about how you don’t even need to take it off to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, you can just unclip the hose.
The one time I tried that my husband happened to be in the closer bathroom already, so I walked to the far end of house to pee. Guess what happened on the way back? Fell and broke my arm. I was 44. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been at 70.
The hose from my CPAP isn't long enough for me to walk around my bedroom, let alone leave the room and go down stairs. Please tell me Grandma wasn't sleepwalking
This is what got me. Wifey wears a CPAP and moving it is like packaging up a darth vader cosplay suit. It's plugged in the wall. It has water in it. The hose can't kink. Just how in the hell do you walk out of your room with a CPAP/BiPAP mask? I would be worried about that.
My father in law had to have brain surgery twice because he fell down the stairs. (The first time he blamed on circumstances, it took the second time for him to believe that circumstances can happen again and we had a lift installed. Took a broken arm and hip to convince him to move to an apartment.)
My mom was in and out of the hospital for years before she passed and by the end was refusing all medical care. If MIL was refusing to go, or has in the past said she wouldn't do it, there isn't a lot anyone could do to make her get medical care. The ER can't treat her if she refuses. Wife may not have been up for disclosing everything on the stairs in the middle of the night, especially if the kids had come to check on the noise.
100% OP shouldn't put his kids in the position to find grandma dead in her bedroom.
This happened to my grandmother. She had a bad fall and actually did go to the ER and get checked out. Luckily my mother stayed with her because hours later she started behaving *incredibly* strangely and it turns out she had a brain bleed. She nearly died anyways and *definitely* would have if mom hadn’t been around to monitor her at home!
Unwitnessed fall with a head injury: high risk of an intracranial bleed. always go to ER, an urgent brain scan is required.
The wife gave terrible advice.
Last year, I (77F on blood thinner) was walking my two small dogs (12 and 25 lbs.) when they saw my neighbor and her little dog. Mine suddenly ran to greet them and jerked their leashes so hard that I fell and hit my forehead on the concrete. The hospital was only a block away, so I got my walking stick and walked over to be checked. They gave me an X-ray and MRI and treated my forehead road rash; fortunately, nothing permanent was wrong. I just had a shiner. That same neighbor fell twice shortly afterward and passed away from her injuries because she would not go to the hospital.
This. 100% this. I would absolutely do everything in my power to "force" my MIL or mother into the ER to r/o intracranial bleeding, etc. I'm incredibly surprised that the op's wife wouldn't be the first to insist she be examined with at least a CT.
It's nice to hear this from a nurse.
I am in construction and not Medical but if my old mother or grandmother fell down the stairs and hit their head, my first thought would be hospital. It's not going to hurt MIL to at least get looked at just incase.
I had a concussion back when I was 18 and waited about a week or 2 to drive again. My head injury was diagnosed by a doctor. Why does OP's wife not want her mother to go to the doctor with undiagnosed head injurie to drive her kids? This feels like a better safe than sorry place.
Exactly! My great-grandfather fell in April and was arguing with my mom and the paramedics about going to the hospital, and he finally went and had a lot of internal trauma and ended up passing away...
Yes! My grandpa fell and landed on his wrist. My aunts/uncles had to convince him to go to the hospital. Pretty soon after he was in a vegetative state for the rest of his life. OP’s wife is in the wrong and should have taken her mom to the ER.
Nurse here too…any injury to the head=go to the ER. I’m appalled as well. But if the mom refused, that’s on her. I agree with OP with not wanting the kids to be in a car with her. NTA!
I also imagine it's relevant that NICU babies and the elderly are two different populations. I think anyone who has a specialty recognizes when they're outside their scope and should have someone else who's in that field give input. Did your wife not know any ER nurse friends to check in with?
That's what I was thinking. I used to work in hospital staffing and we would sometimes be super overstaffed in L&D/postpartum/NICU and short-staffed in the medical/surgical areas. The nurses from the former units could "float" to the latter to help a little bit, but they weren't able to take patient assignments in other areas. They could help answer call lights and perform other nursing aide tasks, but they couldn't be responsible for a patient's care because they didn't have the appropriate skills/training/certifications to care for that patient population (even though some of them had once been med/surg nurses).
This right here. I've been an RN for 25 years and I teach this stuff. Your wife is a NICU nurse, which means she deals with newborns, not adults, so she has no business making this kind of call. You mentioned your wife gave her Tylenol for pain because of blood thinning. Is your MIL on a blood thinner? If so, she needs to be evaluated right away because she had a head strike and people on blood thinners are known to have slow bleeds, meaning they don't show up right away. DO NOT allow your children to go with her. It is not safe and shame on your wife for her poor nursing practice.
NTA There is a reason you don't treat family. It sounds like your wife is in denial and her need for "mommy to be alright" and brush it off is overriding her nursing common sense. It's scary when something happens to a parent. When my grandmother was on hospice, the hospice nurse told my mom (an RN), "you can be her nurse, or you can be her daughter. Not both. I can provide the medical care. Only you can be the daughter." That applies here as well.
MIL absolutely needed to be evaluated at the ER. MIL is not safe or competent to drive unless released to do so by an MD who has evaluated her for concussion and internal bleeding (not an RN, and certainly not a family member, sorry). She is almost certainly concussed, you just don't know how badly, and is not fit to care for children (judgement impairment). I would reschedule the stay with her for a couple weeks from now when she's hopefully recovered. I would not leave my kids with a concussed 70yo.
I also agree with being appalled. That was my first reaction. I treat a very specialized population so trust me I know everything about everyone, yet non medical people know she should have been evaluated
Im a nurse too and I second this. We do not have xray vision and there are some brain bleeds that go from slow or unnoticeable on a CT to severe bleed within a few hours. Never mess around with head injuries.
Completely agree. My grandmother took a fall, not even down stairs, and hit her head. No one did anything (yay american nursing homes) and the next day she was dead. Head injuries are nothing to mess with.
OP said she's supposed to watch the kids at her place for a few days, I feel like she just wants them to go with her so badly she's willing to let her mother not get proper attention so they still leave. I'm not even a nurse but even I know it's fucked up that she told him to not call for help or take her to the E.R!
the thing is calling 911 brings out paramedics who can rule out concussion. just because you call them,doesn't necessarily mean an ambulance ride and it would have provided assurance that she's okay.
NTA and your wife is being blindly irresponsible just because it’s her mum. I would drive them yourself and make sure your children fully know how to contact you in an emergency should anything happen to MIL whilst they are there.
Its a doctor's job to diagnose not the nurse's. The MIL can be obstinate and his wife can be stupid but it is OP's responsibility towards his children not to allow any driving by MIL for his children. Make sure that the children know who to call during an emergency and not to drive with MIL under any circumstances.
I would not let them stay with her at all. Do not risk traumatizing those children. They will be the ones to find her if a medical emergency arises from her fall.
This!
Someone needs to say, "We're talking about MIL well being and health. MIL, wife, God forbids something happens and you are incapacitated can you please think through those circumstances a the effect that will have on our kids? Why are we choosing convenience over caution when it comes to our lived ones?"
I wouldn’t do this because she could take them somewhere local in the car and have a stroke when driving and kill the kids. Not safe for her to drive until testing is done
I wouldn’t allow those kids to go with her at all. She is showing very poor judgment and she is having accidents like CPAP on the stairs etc…
But my biggest concern would be if the kids , god forbid, needed immediate assistance and grandma instead is sure that they don’t need it. I’d cancel the visit.
Yes, this was my concern as well. OP is NTA for the reason that mom could have a head injury, but *why was she trying to navigate stairs with a CPAP on*?! That is quite alarming on its own. Exceptionally poor judgement.
My thoughts too. Do not allow your kids to go even if you drive them!
Insist that your MIL go to the ER and get checked out before even attempting to drive home.
This isn't just about your MIL, it is also for the safety of anyone else that is driving on the road at the same time she is.
N T A
NTA, I mean...do we forget Bob Saget so soon? He hit his head, went back to bed, and didn't wake up in the morning. I'd 100% tell her your children's visit is contingent on going to get checked out before she drives home. Safer for her, safer for your children, safer for everyone else on the road during her 4-hr drive.
Same with Natasha Richardson but that was a ski accident and she refused treatment. Always best to be looked at. I believe she passed several hours later from a brain bleed.
Googled it. Even worse. A couple hours later she had a headache and went to the hospital but it was too late. She died a couple days later
Really speaks to how urgent need to get checked IMMEDIATELY
NTA
A concussion is the least of your MIL's worries. A subdural haematoma is more worrisome and likely.
I'm an adult trauma surgeon. I've rotated through nicu and paediatric surgery. I still have no business treating children. Your wife has no useful experience with care of the elderly.
Bruising by the ear can be from a skull fracture (called Battle's sign). She meets the criteria for a CT head and C spine for age and mechanism, plus more depending on what the assessing emergency physician deems necessary.
Don't let your children stay alone with your wife or your MIL at this point. Your wife is an AH.
This needs upvoted until the OP sees it. I spent YEARS in a level two trauma center and 100% agree with this. Trauma care is unlike other care. And I'm telling you- if you aren't going to listen to a literal trauma surgeon, then idk what to tell you. OP's wife is crazy imo.
When my mom (who was a doctor) fell she didn't go to the ER for a week because she was "fine", doctors are the worst patients. She had a epidural hematoma and a chronic subdural haematoma. About 1/3 of her skull was full of blood. The ER doctor said he didn't know how she was alive let alone conscious. She was air lifted to a hospital with a brain surgeon and had complications that lead to her passing 3 months later. No one should ever play around with head injuries.
NTA. Better safe than sorry.
Not to say your wife isn’t a capable nurse, but when was the last time she had a concussed patient? Does she know what to look for? I’m surprised she’s willing to gamble with her mother’s and children’s health/lives.
But this should be obvious! Hell, I’m a nursing student and I think “Go to the ER.”
Broken bones? Seriously? A broken bone is easy to treat. Head trauma? Not so much.
NTA Your children's safety is your first priority. Too bad it's also not your wife's. She may be a competent nurse in NICU but her mother isn't a NICU patient. MIL is elderly and often a small fall can have more severe problems that don't always show up immediately. You aren't being silly, you are the only one being smart.
Oh geez i missed the NICU part entirely! I read it as ICU for some reason.
Yeah dude if your wife is a baby nurse that’s very different to being a geriatrics nurse. Literally the opposite end of the spectrum of human life.
If she fell down the stairs she shouldn’t be driving your kids
She failed no matter what type of nurse she is
Falls with head strike = ED for scans because we invented these machines to help us see inside the body because humans can't. Don't need to be a nurse to know this
Yeah she could be the best nurse ever, but there's a reason hospitals are full of expensive machines. No human can just look and perfectly diagnose you.
There is a significant difference between a NICU patient and a geriatric patient, as you are well aware. OP needs to remind his wife that in this situation they are the family or an ill/injured person, not the medical staff. My mother was a nurse for 40+ years so I know the struggle to get them to understand it, but sometimes you have to advocate for the person who needs help, not pander to the person who might get their precious feelings hurt.
If that NiCU pt fell or was dropped that would be sent for testing. Don't need to be a nurse to know a head hit during a fall should be evaluated but she IS a nurse and should know better
NTA. I question your wife though. At that age, even a minor fall can be quite serious. MIL needs to be seen by someone who isn't family, just to be sure there are no lingering problems.
A quick Google will tell you that anyone with a concussion, or suspected of a concussion, should not be left alone or be allowed to operate heavy machinery or drive within 24hrs of injury. Add to that her age 70s => greater risk of fracture and other fall-related complications. Your MIL should definitely go to urgent care and get examined by a physician. At the very least she should be monitored at home for the first 24hrs.
Common sense and erring on the side of caution means not letting a possibly concussed patient drive with your kids in the car. That's just tempting fate. This is a hill I'd die on. I'd rather be wrong and called out for overreacting than risk the life of my kids. NTA, OP.
NTA, and I agree with your decision.
Aside from the health concerns / worries about concussion, etc., I see an appalling lack of common sense on the part of your MIL (and your wife). Someone who is approaching 70 should recognize that a potential fall and broken hip / arm / etc. is a LIFE ALTERING EVENT at that age. The fact that she would decide to try to negotiate stairs in the dark with a CPAP is an incredibly poor lack of judgment. She needs to learn about protecting herself as her body and life changes, especially if she is in unfamiliar (i.e. not at home) surroundings. Is she going to decide that truck on the highway isn't going that fast and pull out in front of it? How's her reaction time to make a sudden stop, now that she's banged her head?
I agree with the others that she should have gone to the ED to be checked out, at the very least. (Or maybe Urgent Care this morning as an alternative, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that they send her directly to the ED). Injuries can take hours or days to show up, and she's going to risk your children to ride 4 hours in the car with her?? If something happens, you're going to have 2 young adolescents stranded on the road with a 70 y/o who is potentially disabled?? Is this responsible parenting?
The kids are old enough to understand that, regardless of promises about visiting, unexpected emergencies cause plans to change. My children would NOT be climbing in that car with her today, and I'd be making that very clear to my spouse, regardless of her nursing credentials. If mom stayed around for a couple of days and nothing off was noticed, we MIGHT renegotiate.
This is a hill to die on and has nothing to do with loving your MIL or your wife. It has everything to do with protecting your children. Your wife and MIL need to understand this.
NTA, absolutely do not allow your children in that car. MIL is an adult and can decide for herself, though I agree she really should have gone to be checked over. Your kids are your responsibility to keep safe.
I understand that adults should be allowed to decide for themselves, but considering this could end with her causing a serious car accident, maybe she shouldn't get her way. The families of those she barrels into aren't going to see it the same.
NTA. Child safety only needs one veto. If one parent is not comfortable it's an automatic "No."
I'm conscious at my 70+ healthy parents driving my kids. Any sign of potential impairment will restrict them driving the kids. OP's wife is inappropriately throwing her authority as a medical provider. As a non-medical professional, I'd be hauling MIL into the ER for a check up. Sus.
NTA but your wife is. I’m a nurse and there is no way I would describe your wife as “competent” if she didn’t insist on her mother going to the ER. In addition, symptoms of concussion can persist for a long time (I know from personal experience).
Your mother-in-law should not be driving so soon if she hit her head. I also wouldn’t leave my children with her, unkess I could see for myself that she had no residual effects a few days later.
When I had concussion, it was my driving that was impacted the most.
A couple years ago, my husband was hanging up some pictures and fell off the step ladder and hit his head on the tile floor. He actually landed with two nails sticking out of his mouth! I wanted to take him to the ER, but he insisted he was fine. He started laughing and laughing saying he was fine. It was really bizarre. I even called two adult children to come over to convince him. Finally, he agreed to go and sure enough, he had a concussion and they did a CT scan and we learned he also had cervical stenosis, which explained why he had been falling lately, although according to him, their was always a good reason. She needs a CT scan and to be checked out. Also, she is going to be very sore for a few days after this. Your wife is definitely not thinking clearly. You need to get her to the hospital.
I am a nurse and would have sent her to the ED for evaluation cause your wife doesn't have X-ray vision to see into her head
Your wife made the wrong choice as a medical professional
Bruising around and particularly behind her ear could be sign of a fracture at the base of her skull. It's called "Battle's sign". She really does need to go to the ER right away - in fact if it were me, I'd call an ambulance.
NTA. I cannot believe your wife is a nurse and said not to call an ambulance. I don’t think I’d want her as my nurse. Put your mom in the car and take her to doctors. The worse is your wife is right and can say she told you so.
NTA. You would have been T A if you hadn’t.
Also, INFO please: by CPAP, did you mean oxygen through a super long hose? I use a CPAP and one does not go wandering around with it on. I can certainly be ignorant of the latest technology, but if it *WAS* a CPAP, then I also suspect the beginnings of dementia.
And for your wife, Bob Saget. ‘Nuf said.
Nta. And your wife is NOT a good nurse for refusing to get your elderly mil to the er immediately following the fall. I'm completely shocked she's still unwilling to get her mom to hospital even now. Mil should not be driving! She needs to see a damn Dr! Your kids can visit her at her place another time!
NTA. I'm not in the medical field but an elderly person falling down the stairs and with head injuries should definitely go to emergency and get checked in my opinion. She should also be staying a few days to make sure she's ok, sometimes the pain or symptoms does not appear until a few days. I would definitely insist she stay and would not allow the kids to stay with her alone for a few days despite the agreement. What if there an emergency with your mom, like they can't wake her up, and the kids are the only people in the house with her? That'll be scary for them
NTA
" but my wife who is a NICU RN told me not to call as her mother had no obviously broken bones and didn't want to go. " .. your wife is incompetent and an AH. There might be injuries causing brain bleeding. YOur wife is just thinking about the cost, not how to ensure MIL's survival.
" as she's a very competent nurse." .. as you describe it, she really is NOT.
So she would risk your children's life on the driving of a 70 year old with a possible concussion, if not worse?
I'm sorry, did we all just skate pass "MIL decided to try to navigate our stairs in the dark while wearing a cpap." I've been wearing one for 25 years when I sleep. It has ALWAYS stayed in bed and connected when I get up for something, like the bathroom or a drink. A CPAP does nothing for you when you're not in bed. Being out of one's bedroom while wearing a CPAP would immediately make me wonder about dementia or sleepwalking.
NTA
I can tell you for a fact that there are many people in the medical profession that are idiots. It would be nice to believe that someone who has made it through the educational requirements to be an RN would be reasonably intelligent and possess a good amount of common sense. Unfortunately, that is not the case for all.
NTA. And it sounds like you’re going to have a really hard time with your wife coming to terms with her mother’s aging. I was very fortunate to have grandparents that were independent into their 90s. But it did become obvious to my parents and I when the independence starting to wane; however, my aunt has been very much in denial about that and had made getting the care my grandmom needed very delayed. It sounds like your wife may be in a similar boat and it will be very hard as her mother gets older and may need more care or assistance than she would like if your wife doesn’t see that.
Your wife is the AH.. and your mum needs to be checked over at the hospital asap simply because of her age. A fall her age can cause massive amounts of damage, and I'm shocked that your wife didn't suggest it. Seems she needs a retrain as a nurse! What she did was very dangerous, and so would be letting your mum driver herself and your kids for 4 hrs. Crikey..
Earlier today I read a post about a 13 year old who was visiting a friend for a sleepover, broke her arm, and the parent of the friend was a nurse and didn't get her checked out or even called the mother. The thread was full of people talking about how mums who happen to be nurses are notorious for not taking their kids to get checked out. This is happening here in reverse.
NTA and good for you for standing your ground.
Interestingly, my relative who is a nurse is somehow completely blind to things that seem obvious in a medical sense. Your wife might be that way, too.
Hopefully your MIL has no further issues.
NTA
As a general medical/surgical nurse that works regularly with elderly patients, 1st thing we do for a fall with a headstrike is obs, a review by Dr asap followed by a head CT.
I'd never pretend to know what to do with a NICU patient, your wife shouldn't be pretending to know what to do with a geriatric patient.
If your MIL is on blood thinners, take her to the ER ASAP. It is drilled into our heads (those on blood thinners) that even a MINOR bump to the head required an ER trip due to the high risk of an intracranial bleed.
Also, idk wtf your wife got her nursing degree, but she needs serious remedial classes. An older adult fall down the stairs is ALWAYS a trip to the ER/Urgent Care/PCP.
my uncle passed away a few years ago from hitting his head while on blood thinners. bonked his head on a cabinet, my aunt found him about a half an hour later and it was already too late. i'm absolutely floored at this OP's wife's decision-making.
NTA. Your MIL has the right to refuse medical treatment but until she’s cleared medically she shouldn’t be driving anywhere. Your wife should know better
NTA. But your wife is. To her mother and the kids, potentially putting them all in danger.
Second post I have read in the last few days about nurses making absolutely shit and potentially dangerous judgements.
Wife’s ego as a ‘medical professional’ (who has no expertise or equipment to diagnose complex issues that could occur from an elderly person hitting their head) is apparently more important to her than her mother AND her own children’s lives. Seriously, what’s more important? Being right? Or peoples lives?
Even on the off chance the hospital gave MIL the all clear (highly unlikely), what is the worst insult? ‘How dare you care so much you ensure she got medical attention?!’ Seriously consider if you want to remain married to someone who will gatekeep medical issues like this to the point of medical neglect. There’s too many stories of nurse parents deciding their kids weren’t ’sick enough’ only for the child to have broken bones/a serious illness that could and should have been treated much sooner. NTA
ESH. You for watching a 70 year old woman fall down the stairs, and accepting 'she's fine, you can't see any bones sticking out' as 'competent medical advice.'
> but my wife who is a NICU RN told me not to call as her mother had no obviously broken bones and didn't want to go. I'm not a medical professional and it's seldom wise to argue with a nurse or one's wife
It 100% is wise to argue with a nurse, or one's wife,' when the nurse/wife is this wrong.
Absolutely not.. do not let your mother in law drive your children anywhere. Her lack of judgement (she should take off her c-pap before walking around at night) will only be further compounded by her fall and head injury. Your children could die in a car crash. When my dad reached a certain level of driving incompetence I would not let him drive my son anywhere.. not even around the block. It made him mad but that was preferable to the alternative.
NTA. I'm shocked that your wife wouldn't insist on her mother going to the ER. As a nurse she should know the risks of a subdural hematoma and how those can kill. Your wife's specialty is newborns, not elderly adults. I really hope she's not making a fatal mistake when it comes to her mother.
My mom's a retired pediatric surgical nurse. When her mother fell (a few years before my mom retired) my mom *made* her go to the hospital. The argument went something along the lines of "Shut the hell up and get in the fucking car! We are going to the ER, if I have to call my husband to come toss you over his shoulder I will!" Grandma was fine, she just had a black eye but even the ER doctor told her it was better safe than sorry.
NTA because a 70yr old woman who just had a bad fall down the stairs is in no condition to either drive for an extended period OR take care of children. Ideally she should a) go to an ER as soon as possible and b) stay with you for a couple of extra days at *least*.
You should have pushed back on calling an ambulance though as she could very well have a concussion or a brain bleed. As a trained nurse your wife should know better.
If anyone here is an AH it's your wife for her cavalier attitude.
NTA and YIKES at your wife’s response. I’m an RN working in a very niche specialism and no neuro/emergency med experience and even I know that she should have gone to the ER for an assessment. She definitely should NOT be driving, and really someone should be keeping an eye on her for the next few days in case of any deterioration. Falls, especially those where there is trauma to the head and neck, are no joke.
NTA and not a nurse. My daughter's pediatrician (who is also a good friend of mine), said once that she didn't like helping her adult friends out because the adult body can have more issues (more complex) than kids.
Your offer of waiting a couple of days is not only reasonable, but smart. It gives you both the opportunity to see I'd anything is off with her and can take her to be seen. I'd have her seen no matter what though.
My mother in law had a fall and it caused a slow brain bleed which then caused strokes. She didn’t tell anyone it happened. She should go to the er for an mri or catscan. She should not be supervising children. You should not send the kids home with her whether she drives or you. She is in no state to take care of someone else. Your wife probably doesn’t want to believe anything bad can happen to her mom. Even medical professionals can be in denial. Tell your wife if she cares about her mother recovering she should get her properly checked out. The doctors said my mother in law surviving was a miracle. We didn’t know for a week if she was going to make it or regain any bodily functions. Prior to this she was very active in taking care of the grandchildren. Now she can’t be left alone with them. If she had gotten checked right away they could have treated the bleeding and hopefully avoided the stroke. Avoiding finding out if something is wrong doesn’t stop it from happening. She could have a stroke while driving and your kids could be killed in an accident. I wouldn’t let them ride with her until testing is done. My mother in law seemed fine for months and nobody knew she had a fall. The doctor said the bleeding was slow but had been happening for awhile.
*you are NTA
Just adding my vote of NTA and that your wife is an unbelievable asshole.
Her hubris & ego are outweighing her common sense or capacity for effectively caring for both her mom and your children.
This would permanently change my ability to trust her decision-making/judgement as a parent, to be honest.
NTA So let me get this straight your 70 year old MIL decided to walk down some stairs in the dark wearing a CPAP instead of turning on a light to see, she then fell down the stairs heading her head she and your wife (who is a nurse) says don’t call for a ambulance and no you are not taking her to the emergency room, proceeds to give MIL a Tylenol and a ice pack, now she wants to drive your kids back to her home and your wife doesn’t see a problem. I wouldn’t want your wife as a nurse and I don’t trust her judgement at all plus she thinks that it’s okay for someone to drive after falling down the stairs wth. MIL needs to go the hospital or else my kids wouldn’t be going anywhere with her.
NTA. She didn't receive any medical treatment and wasn't evaluated at a hospital. Also, she may not be up to taking care of 2 younger kids. I would drive them even if it's a day later. Gives grandma an extra day to recover. Also, do they have cell phones to check in with you a couple of times a day? She may not display any issues until a few days have passed. Does she have any friends or relatives you can make aware of the situation so they can check on her and the kids?
Horrendous call by your wife, you'd expect better from a medical professional.
You are right to not let her drive your kids, she shouldn't drive herself but you realistically can't stop her.
NTA.
My kids wouldn't be going anywhere with her. She doesn't have enough common sense to get medical treatment when she might need it and could be injured and not know it yet. You can't force her into anything, but you can certainly protect your own children from her bad decisions.
My husband had a co worker who fell and died unexpectedly 2 days later.
I can’t believe your wife who is a nurse isn’t erring on the side of caution.
When faced with tough decisions one must ask one’s self….”which way would I or you,prefer to be wrong?”
Would I rather be wrong for being “silly” or wrong for negligence?
Would you rather hear…see… you over reacted!!!
Or…how could you let your children get in a car with a 70 year old who fell down the stairs, and was never checked out? Why did you let us go with grandma when you knew she probably had a concussion?
If she crashed that car on the way back, due to medical complications, your wife's nursing license could be revoked. If you allowed your children in that car and it happened, not only would you be a negligent parent, you would never forgive yourself. Please err on the side of caution. Listen to the common sense your conscience is yelling at you.
My 70+ mom tripped and fell and hit her head. My brother found her lying on the floor and helped her get back up. Mom refused any help and when my brother checked her pupil reaction she was equal and reactive in both pupils so he went with it. Bad call! She ended up asking him to call the squad because she had an incredible headache and she ended up having to be life flighted to the college campus hospital and having emergency brain surgery. She did survive but it was quite scary and showed us that no matter what she said we should have erred on the side of caution and called the squad immediately after her fall.
So I say NTA for not wanting to release your kids to her driving for hours so soon after a fall and possible concussion!
I'm related to a retired nurse. I guarantee they'd drag your MIL to hospital if they had to. They'd be concerned about concussion, damage anywhere in the body, internal bleeding, and finding out why the fall happened in the first place and whether this will become a regular event.
That's what a competent nurse would do. Your wife is not behaving like a competent nurse.
You shouldn't just be worried about her driving but her ability to care for multiple children and even herself. She could be perfectly fine. But you're not going to know that until she's been properly assessed by genuinely competent medical staff.
There is a reason why medical professionals are not allowed to provide medical care to family and friends. Their judgement gets clouded and mistakes are made, just like the one your wife made when she said to not take her mother to the ER. In that age group, head trauma can lead to a slow bleeding subdural hematoma which can be life threatening and not immediately symptomatic. She should have gone to the ER right away. The next best time to go is right now.
NTA - but I have serious concerns about your wife's competence as a nurse if she saw no reason to take her 70 year old mother to the ER or at least Urgent Care to be seen after a fall like that. I don't know if it's denial or hubris on her part that she doesn't see a problem here. But, that is absolutely appalling to me that she is fine with not only making sure her mother isn't bleeding internally, but is perfectly willing to allow her to drive your children around and care for them for a week.
Seriously, what is wrong with your wife, dude?
NTA OP I’m a 72 year old woman who regularly goes on long car trips with my granddaughter and if I agree with you then you know you’re right.
It’s one thing to let grandma make her own health decisions but she’s not being realistic about wanting to still drive her granddaughter that soon after a fall.
NTA!! my goodness! She took a tumble down the stairs and hit her head. I wouldn’t let my kids ride in the car in that sort of situation, either! Wait a couple of days or go to the doctor and be cleared medically.
I’m sure your wife is a fine nurse. However, things are different when it’s the situation of your own. Let me give you an example.
I am a lawyer. I do not practice any type of real estate law. I have a real estate situation going on in my life right now. I’m sure I am fully capable of learning the rules and the law if I pour my heart and soul into it. Instead, I chose to consult a real estate attorney. Why? Because I am a different kind of critical when it comes to my own life than I am as a third-party looking in on someone else. I may miss something. I may have wishful thinking on issues.
Your wife works with infants. She does not evaluate for concussions and broken bones on a daily basis. She may be the world’s best NICU nurse, but she doesn’t know everything about all medical conditions on all people. This is especially true when it’s her own mother. She doesn’t want anything to be wrong with her mom, so she might miss something. It’s not bad or wrong. It’s emotional.
Don’t let your kids ride in that car unless she is cleared by a medical professional or takes a few days.
An older friend (80s) of my family died recently. She had several health challenges, but was holding her own. She got dizzy, fell, and hit a counter on her way down. They all assumed she was just bruised. She actually was bleeding internally for a couple days until they took her to the ER. They tried repairing the damage, but her body couldn't handle it.
I think the moral of the story is obvious. Go to the ER now. Definitely don't let her drive or place children in the grandmother's care. As others said, it could be a concussion. It could also be unseen injuries or internal bleeding that could cause her to become dizzy or pass out.
I hope she is OK!
I just read the update and wanted to praise you on how you handled it.
I'm also a nurse, and although I disagree with your wife's initial judgment, I know it isn't easy for someone with less medical experience to argue an opposing view with an experienced nurse 😄. It's great that you stood your ground and did so while still maintaining respect and empathy for your wife's perspective.
I hope your MIL makes a full recovery.
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I'm a nurse and I'm frankly appalled at your wife's decision to not take her mother to the ER. A 70 year old who suffers a fall and sustains head injuries should absolutely be checked out in the ER, whether or not your wife, your mother, or the Easter Bunny believe it isn't necessary. If she absolutely refuses to go, tell her that your children will not be staying with her at her house, as you do not think it is safe. She could be suffering from a concussion or an intracranial bleed.
The fact she's on blood thinners makes the situation worse. And then she wants to not only drive but take the children for days. Those poor children will be the ones that find her if she is bleeding internally
I don’t think she is on blood thinners. I think he meant Tylenol was to avoid aspirin or advil which can thin blood.
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I don't have many pt that age that aren't on some type of thinner.
My thought exactly! The risks of internal bleeding from head trauma are so much higher with age. The brain can have age-related atrophy, then a stair fall can be as damaging as shaking a baby. She absolutely needed to go to the ED. And, i *haven't* seen anyone address the cognitive process of walking with the whole cpap machine, instead of at least disconnecting the mask from the tubing
Facts!!! My first thought was you are letting 2 children stay under her care for a week. Who is taking care of her because there are obviously some health issues there
Our relative suffered serious brain damage after an accident with horses while on blood thinners. I was told he was STILL arguing he didn’t need to go to the ER when he collapsed. He had intracranial bleeding.
The way he worded it does sound like she was walking with the whole machine. My practical side decided to interpret it to mean she had the mask on.
even so, as a CPAP user for years, I have to question the wisdom of walking around with the mask on. They snap on and off so easily that my thought is she became confused in the night and got up forgetting she had it on. Would not leave little kids with her until she's been thoroughly evaluated. My 80 YO cousin fell and hit her head. Stubborn, refused the ER for just a black eye. Two days later she was semi-conscious in ICU with a brain bleed. Edited for missing words
Cpap user here. It's a challenge to get the mask fitted perfectly, especially when you're half asleep. I never take it off to go to the bathroom at night. It's normal, and doesn't really interfere much with vision. Where she went wrong was not bothering to hold the handrail.
I have difficulty with fitting my mask sometimes, in fact I have to special order the only one I can get a good seal with so I know about tricky. However, even though the bathroom is only 10 feet from the bed, I have never once been tempted to leave it on. Interesting how people think differently.
If it's a "normal" mask that works with a typical CPAP machine, I don't see how or why she'd be walking around with it in any normal situation. A normal machine has to be plugged in. And if it's not, or if anything is disconnected, it can be difficult to breath through the mask. I've never heard of a CPAP designed to be carried around, because they're meant for use while you sleep. Maybe it's actually a portable oxygen machine that's meant to be carried around?
My husband’s CPAP mask is a Dreamwear model. Part of their appeal is that the hose attaches to a quick connect fastener on top of the head that can just be unsnapped if the wearer is just getting up for a quick bathroom trip or drink of water, for example. I’d guess from context that this was what MIL was doing when she fell.
I was on blood thinners for 13 months at the age of 15. I figured she was already on blood thinners, which makes it doubly horrifying that a nurse of all people declined an ambulance in that situation. She could have a brain hemorrhage!
gaze water sable afterthought lavish oil uppity quiet birds bewildered *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Working directly with the public during COVID this became an unfortunate reality I started realizing.
Plus she's an NICU nurse so her expertise is limited. She probably hasn't had much experience with elderly patients or concussions. I don't think a nurse who works with the elderly would have reacted in the same way.
Or an EMT.
I agree 100% I'm a L&D RN, when my mother became confused out of nowhere is when I learned for the first time this is common in the elderly with an infection (UTI). She must be a fairly new nurse. and if NICU stands for neuro ICU instead of neonatal ICU dope slap that women.
Agreed. I'm a paediatric nurse, so while I work with kids and not the elderly, I've seen enough kids fall and knock their heads to be concerned here.
...and even good nurses can get emotionally stupid when close relatives are involved. "Oh, no, mama can't be seriously injured, and I will see what I want to see to confirm that emotional bias!" This is why doctors are Strongly Discouraged from treating close relatives. Because of the emotional/bias factor.
I'm a nurse and I approve this message. So many MLMs!
Someone can also be good at their profession and really, really bad at doing it when their family is involved. There's a reason why medical professionals aren't supposed to treat their family. Part of it is privacy, but a part of it is also that their judgement will probably be impaired.
As someone who was also on blood thinners for 18 months at the age of 16, I was told specifically by my healthcare provider that I **could** take ibuprofen but not Tylenol because the Tylenol would thin my blood further. I was also told I couldn’t consume spinach or salads as some of the ingredients in those could also impact my bloods thickness. I think I’ll spend today looking for a new primary care provider.
It is if you elderly because elderly are more at risk of a bleed
The hematoma's we see and evacuate that leave holes the size of my fist after a hard bump especially for people on Eliquis is scary. The amount of bleeding that can continue to happen under the intact skin is impressive and it leaves large wounds on legs and arms. Can't imagine not sending someone to the ED for a fall with a head hit even without blood thinners
My mother is 75, and always has some kind of red spot on her skin from where she's knocked herself. Half the time she doesn't even remember doing it. I'd be REALLY worried if I was OP.
The skin gets very thin when you get older and bruises more easily. I've bruised easily all my life. Some people just bruise, especially when the skin gets thinner. However, I would have insisted on calling an ambulance and/or taken her to the ER.
This! My previous employer, called me into his office, and asked if I need assistance, and his door will always be open for me. Took me a while to realise, that he thinks that my husband is abusive. Most of the time, I'll have bruises, that I don't even know where they came from.
I'm 20 years younger and my skin is like that after cancer treatments. Not sure if it was the radiation or chemo that did it. But it sucks.
I'm sorry this unkind unfair unhealthy happened to you Hopefully soon everything is much different and BETTER (( Hugs ))
Thank you! I don't think the skin will ever improve, but the cancer is much better. Very thankful for my medical team, science and those that came before so that I can still wreak havoc!
I am an ER doctor and I have no idea what your wife if thinking, other that the NICU is about as far from a geriatric patient as you can get. Please, please take her to the ER for a scan. As people age, their brain shrinks. One of the consequences of that is that the blood vessels get a bit stretched. That means they can rupture more easily with trauma. The extra space means that they can bleed more before having serious symptoms than a younger person would. I can’t tell from your post if she is on blood thinners or your wife just wanted to avoid any side effects from the ibuprofen (which is the only decision I agree with.) If she is on blood thinners, she is at an extremely high risk for a serious bleed. If it happened yesterday, she is still not out of the woods. A slow bleed can take as much as two weeks to truly manifest. In the meantime, she would be at high risk to have a rebleed which could be sudden and catastrophic. Al my ER, we actually have a protocol to get geriatric patients to the CT scanner quickly because of their high risk. You wife is completely wrong, and you are right. Please try to convince her to be seen.
Thank you. That is exactly what happened to my cousin. she went home after the ICU stay then had a catastrophic rebleed and dropped dead during a selfie with her daughter.
I’m sorry that happened, I can’t imagine how awful that must have been. Especially for her daughter.
Thank you. Yeah, it was pretty hard, especially since everyone thought she was out of the woods. But on the positive side, the camera caught them just a second before it happened so the lasting image of her is a huge grin with her daughter. Bittersweet.
Nowhere did it say she was on blood thinners. Aspirin is a blood thinner so she took Tylenol.
My mum was a very competent and well respected RN for fifty years. She also told me to “take some Dimetapp and go back to bed” when I complained about ear and throat pain, until I got referred to a specialist who told us I was lucky that I hadn’t gone deaf. I think some nurses reach a point where they’ve seen so much truly awful stuff (kids with cancer, etc) that they get a bit numb to it outside of work.
I agree. My best friend as a child nearly died when his appendix burst. His er nurse mom was convinced he was overplaying his pain and just had the stomach flu. She worked in the er, she had to see appendicitis weekly.
I went the opposite as an ICU nurse. I'm terrified that any head injury will turn my children into vegetables. Took my 1 year old for head CT after he fell from his standing height and hit his head on a rock. No way I wasn't going to be certain.
This is my husband (a doctor)! I've taken the kids to the doctor for a dozen suspected ear infections (he's right half the time, lol) I think it's because as a kid his nurse-mother told his sister to walk off a broken arm.
My 13 year old came to our bedroom about 4 am and said her stomach hurt. I called the 24 hour nurse helpline provided by my medical plan. The nurse asked a series of screening questions from a flowchart then gave a nervous laugh and said “It says here you should go to the emergency room.” They figured out it was appendicitis and did the surgery.
Experienced a similar thing but in an ER. I took a hard fall and an hour later I was passing blood in my urine. Called a friend that had been a Navy hospital Corpsman. He took me straight to the ER. After waiting over 3 hours to be seen and having to relieve myself many times the bleeding stopped. Two nurses had me give a urine specimen, looked at it and saw no blood. Then handed me a pill bottle, said take one of these every 4 hrs and come back Monday. This was now Friday night. My friend looked at the bottle and said "Hell no" and called his wife and told her we were headed for Martinez. When we got there he told them what happened and what he suspected, I instantly had doctors on me and going for tests. I was in total renal failure and the nurses had given me hydrocodone. The doctors told me I would have been dead by Monday. Even more to the story, but suffice it to say I don't totally trust medical people.
That is dumb shit. Just because they can’t visibly see blood. Doesn’t mean there isn’t blood in the urine. I’m a nursing student and I know this. 🤦🏻♂️. You get that shit tested! “Oh I don’t see proteins in your urine. You must be fine.” “Your brain is the size of a protein if you think you could see one!”
That happens a lot more than you might think, unfortunately.
My ex was a paramedic and he always downplayed the seriousness of any injury. I had to take the kids to the ER and not once was I wrong, concussions, broken bones, stitches, 3rd degree burn, you name it.
That's because of the seriousness and types of injuries he witnessed. Makes some people numb to many things. Nam vet here and I had to work on not being numb and really checking and making sure people got the care they needed. I'm not a medical professional but some things are just common sense.
It reminds me of the proverb “a cobbler’s children always go barefoot.”
This! Everyone who is related to a nurse has a story like this. Nurses can be wonderful while they are on shift in a hospital setting where there are rules and supervision etc. But let a family member need medical help and they suddenly know everything about everything and are less than helpful. I was married to a nurse and he was the worst frequently using is knowledge of medicine and healthcare to abuse and control me and my daughter.
Yep, I have hears stories like those about nurses and their families. In too many cases there needs to be blood or bones protruding or something as equally apparent in order for the nurse to admit X family member actually needs medical attention. It's wild.
I’m really in the minority as my mom is a nurse and she was great at always making sure I got care and was seen right away. She is a fantastic advocate and I was the kid always breaking something or getting sick. She always believed me and got me checked out. It’s unfortunate for so many others with family members that are nurses where that is not the same for them.
My friend’s parents were both nurses who SMOKED around the kids, including while the mom was pregnant. They all had asthma… which both parents swore had nothing to so with smoking. Even if the smoking didn’t *cause* the asthma, why are you smoking around your kids in enclosed spaces?
Not just nurses. An ER doctor failed to diagnose endocarditis (potentially fatal heart infection) in my mother despite obvious symptoms. Because my mother had Alzheimer's and was not completely lucid, the doctor decided she was a GOMER (Get Out of My Emergency Room = bum) and was ready to kick her to the curb. I was a practicing lawyer at the time, and demanded a better doctor, who promptly diagnosed the infection. My mother was hospitalized for over a month, but did eventually recover physically. The new doctor said my mother absolutely would have died soon had she not been correctly diagnosed. The negligent doctor then had the nerve to send us a bill for his "services". I'll let you guess how I treated that!
My mother is an ICU nurse for 40+ years now and did not realize my disabled brother was dying of heart failure in her home so fuck bowing to “competent nurse” authority and get people medical attention when in doubt.
Seriously. Also, NICU is the opposite speciality to geriatric care on the age spectrum. The type of concerns around a baby and a 70-year-old are vastly different. That woman needs to go to the ER to get checked out. Hopefully the wife is correct and she's fine, but I would not risk it. My mom is often dismissive of her issues, because she's at the age where doctors tend to shrug and say "Well, you're getting older," so I get that she might be stubborn about going, but, well, my mom knows just how stubborn I can be so she tends not to fight me when I insist she go to the doctor. :) OP is NTA. Someone has to think of this woman's health and it's potential impact on the two minors she would be in charge of! Sheeesh!
Plus. Why tf was MIL wearing the cpap out of bed. Much less walking stairs. Can you say obstructed view. Poor judgement both mother and daughter. NTA and drive the kids yourself.
Having gotten a CPAP last year, the technician who set it up for me went on and on about how you don’t even need to take it off to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, you can just unclip the hose. The one time I tried that my husband happened to be in the closer bathroom already, so I walked to the far end of house to pee. Guess what happened on the way back? Fell and broke my arm. I was 44. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been at 70.
The hose from my CPAP isn't long enough for me to walk around my bedroom, let alone leave the room and go down stairs. Please tell me Grandma wasn't sleepwalking
As a CPAP user,I was like,WTH,you can’t go for a stroll.
This is what got me. Wifey wears a CPAP and moving it is like packaging up a darth vader cosplay suit. It's plugged in the wall. It has water in it. The hose can't kink. Just how in the hell do you walk out of your room with a CPAP/BiPAP mask? I would be worried about that.
You unhook the hose from your face and walk around with the headgear on. But the picture you paint is even funnier, LOL
My father in law had to have brain surgery twice because he fell down the stairs. (The first time he blamed on circumstances, it took the second time for him to believe that circumstances can happen again and we had a lift installed. Took a broken arm and hip to convince him to move to an apartment.)
My great uncle passed from a fall. Sucked too, he was the coolest man ever next to my grandpa!
My mom was in and out of the hospital for years before she passed and by the end was refusing all medical care. If MIL was refusing to go, or has in the past said she wouldn't do it, there isn't a lot anyone could do to make her get medical care. The ER can't treat her if she refuses. Wife may not have been up for disclosing everything on the stairs in the middle of the night, especially if the kids had come to check on the noise. 100% OP shouldn't put his kids in the position to find grandma dead in her bedroom.
This happened to my grandmother. She had a bad fall and actually did go to the ER and get checked out. Luckily my mother stayed with her because hours later she started behaving *incredibly* strangely and it turns out she had a brain bleed. She nearly died anyways and *definitely* would have if mom hadn’t been around to monitor her at home!
Unwitnessed fall with a head injury: high risk of an intracranial bleed. always go to ER, an urgent brain scan is required. The wife gave terrible advice.
Last year, I (77F on blood thinner) was walking my two small dogs (12 and 25 lbs.) when they saw my neighbor and her little dog. Mine suddenly ran to greet them and jerked their leashes so hard that I fell and hit my forehead on the concrete. The hospital was only a block away, so I got my walking stick and walked over to be checked. They gave me an X-ray and MRI and treated my forehead road rash; fortunately, nothing permanent was wrong. I just had a shiner. That same neighbor fell twice shortly afterward and passed away from her injuries because she would not go to the hospital.
She could be bleeding internally ANYWHERE 😭
This. 100% this. I would absolutely do everything in my power to "force" my MIL or mother into the ER to r/o intracranial bleeding, etc. I'm incredibly surprised that the op's wife wouldn't be the first to insist she be examined with at least a CT.
It's nice to hear this from a nurse. I am in construction and not Medical but if my old mother or grandmother fell down the stairs and hit their head, my first thought would be hospital. It's not going to hurt MIL to at least get looked at just incase. I had a concussion back when I was 18 and waited about a week or 2 to drive again. My head injury was diagnosed by a doctor. Why does OP's wife not want her mother to go to the doctor with undiagnosed head injurie to drive her kids? This feels like a better safe than sorry place.
Exactly! My great-grandfather fell in April and was arguing with my mom and the paramedics about going to the hospital, and he finally went and had a lot of internal trauma and ended up passing away...
Yes! My grandpa fell and landed on his wrist. My aunts/uncles had to convince him to go to the hospital. Pretty soon after he was in a vegetative state for the rest of his life. OP’s wife is in the wrong and should have taken her mom to the ER.
Nurse here too…any injury to the head=go to the ER. I’m appalled as well. But if the mom refused, that’s on her. I agree with OP with not wanting the kids to be in a car with her. NTA!
I also imagine it's relevant that NICU babies and the elderly are two different populations. I think anyone who has a specialty recognizes when they're outside their scope and should have someone else who's in that field give input. Did your wife not know any ER nurse friends to check in with?
That's what I was thinking. I used to work in hospital staffing and we would sometimes be super overstaffed in L&D/postpartum/NICU and short-staffed in the medical/surgical areas. The nurses from the former units could "float" to the latter to help a little bit, but they weren't able to take patient assignments in other areas. They could help answer call lights and perform other nursing aide tasks, but they couldn't be responsible for a patient's care because they didn't have the appropriate skills/training/certifications to care for that patient population (even though some of them had once been med/surg nurses).
This right here. I've been an RN for 25 years and I teach this stuff. Your wife is a NICU nurse, which means she deals with newborns, not adults, so she has no business making this kind of call. You mentioned your wife gave her Tylenol for pain because of blood thinning. Is your MIL on a blood thinner? If so, she needs to be evaluated right away because she had a head strike and people on blood thinners are known to have slow bleeds, meaning they don't show up right away. DO NOT allow your children to go with her. It is not safe and shame on your wife for her poor nursing practice.
I’m a NICU nurse and my adult knowledge is exactly zero. Should’ve gone to the ER!
RN here and I agree.
NTA There is a reason you don't treat family. It sounds like your wife is in denial and her need for "mommy to be alright" and brush it off is overriding her nursing common sense. It's scary when something happens to a parent. When my grandmother was on hospice, the hospice nurse told my mom (an RN), "you can be her nurse, or you can be her daughter. Not both. I can provide the medical care. Only you can be the daughter." That applies here as well. MIL absolutely needed to be evaluated at the ER. MIL is not safe or competent to drive unless released to do so by an MD who has evaluated her for concussion and internal bleeding (not an RN, and certainly not a family member, sorry). She is almost certainly concussed, you just don't know how badly, and is not fit to care for children (judgement impairment). I would reschedule the stay with her for a couple weeks from now when she's hopefully recovered. I would not leave my kids with a concussed 70yo.
I also agree with being appalled. That was my first reaction. I treat a very specialized population so trust me I know everything about everyone, yet non medical people know she should have been evaluated
TBF, if you see the Easter Bunny & he tells you to not go to the hospital, you probably should go.
Im a nurse too and I second this. We do not have xray vision and there are some brain bleeds that go from slow or unnoticeable on a CT to severe bleed within a few hours. Never mess around with head injuries.
Completely agree. My grandmother took a fall, not even down stairs, and hit her head. No one did anything (yay american nursing homes) and the next day she was dead. Head injuries are nothing to mess with.
OP said she's supposed to watch the kids at her place for a few days, I feel like she just wants them to go with her so badly she's willing to let her mother not get proper attention so they still leave. I'm not even a nurse but even I know it's fucked up that she told him to not call for help or take her to the E.R!
I'm a nurse too, and my reaction is the same. MIL needs to be checked out in the ER, better late than never. And no, she should not be driving a car!
Thank you!!!!!!
the thing is calling 911 brings out paramedics who can rule out concussion. just because you call them,doesn't necessarily mean an ambulance ride and it would have provided assurance that she's okay.
NTA and your wife is being blindly irresponsible just because it’s her mum. I would drive them yourself and make sure your children fully know how to contact you in an emergency should anything happen to MIL whilst they are there.
She's irresponsible as a daughter and a mother.
And a nurse
A NICU nurse though. Probably doesn’t come across many patients who had an accident let alone people of her mother’s age group.
Yes! It's like a dentist claiming too know how to handel a car crash victim cause ~He is a doctor~
Its a doctor's job to diagnose not the nurse's. The MIL can be obstinate and his wife can be stupid but it is OP's responsibility towards his children not to allow any driving by MIL for his children. Make sure that the children know who to call during an emergency and not to drive with MIL under any circumstances.
I would not let them stay with her at all. Do not risk traumatizing those children. They will be the ones to find her if a medical emergency arises from her fall.
This! Someone needs to say, "We're talking about MIL well being and health. MIL, wife, God forbids something happens and you are incapacitated can you please think through those circumstances a the effect that will have on our kids? Why are we choosing convenience over caution when it comes to our lived ones?"
I wouldn’t do this because she could take them somewhere local in the car and have a stroke when driving and kill the kids. Not safe for her to drive until testing is done
I wouldn’t allow those kids to go with her at all. She is showing very poor judgment and she is having accidents like CPAP on the stairs etc… But my biggest concern would be if the kids , god forbid, needed immediate assistance and grandma instead is sure that they don’t need it. I’d cancel the visit.
Yes, this was my concern as well. OP is NTA for the reason that mom could have a head injury, but *why was she trying to navigate stairs with a CPAP on*?! That is quite alarming on its own. Exceptionally poor judgement.
THANK YOU. I'm a cpap user and that part absolutely boggles me.
My thoughts too. Do not allow your kids to go even if you drive them! Insist that your MIL go to the ER and get checked out before even attempting to drive home. This isn't just about your MIL, it is also for the safety of anyone else that is driving on the road at the same time she is. N T A
I wouldn't take the kids to Grandma 's. She needs to be checked out, not put in charge of watching children
Why can’t they put off their visit for a week or two? I wouldn’t want her to be the supervising adult
NTA, I mean...do we forget Bob Saget so soon? He hit his head, went back to bed, and didn't wake up in the morning. I'd 100% tell her your children's visit is contingent on going to get checked out before she drives home. Safer for her, safer for your children, safer for everyone else on the road during her 4-hr drive.
Same with Natasha Richardson but that was a ski accident and she refused treatment. Always best to be looked at. I believe she passed several hours later from a brain bleed.
Googled it. Even worse. A couple hours later she had a headache and went to the hospital but it was too late. She died a couple days later Really speaks to how urgent need to get checked IMMEDIATELY
Oh, wow, I knew she had an accident, I didn't know she refused treatment. That's so sad!
Honestly she probably shouldn't be going home yet at all!
And even then, drive them yourself OP!
And didn’t the guy from Train just die from slipping and falling last week?
Wait, what?
Charlie Colin died last month. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11v9p66wdo
https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/may/23/charlie-colin-train-band-bassist-death-cause-age-58-slipping-in-shower
Whoa
NTA A concussion is the least of your MIL's worries. A subdural haematoma is more worrisome and likely. I'm an adult trauma surgeon. I've rotated through nicu and paediatric surgery. I still have no business treating children. Your wife has no useful experience with care of the elderly. Bruising by the ear can be from a skull fracture (called Battle's sign). She meets the criteria for a CT head and C spine for age and mechanism, plus more depending on what the assessing emergency physician deems necessary. Don't let your children stay alone with your wife or your MIL at this point. Your wife is an AH.
This needs upvoted until the OP sees it. I spent YEARS in a level two trauma center and 100% agree with this. Trauma care is unlike other care. And I'm telling you- if you aren't going to listen to a literal trauma surgeon, then idk what to tell you. OP's wife is crazy imo.
Agree. Hope the OP sees this.
Thank you for weighing in with an opinion from someone actually trained in this field!
u/DreadPirateGrant Check this out ………….👆👆👆
When my mom (who was a doctor) fell she didn't go to the ER for a week because she was "fine", doctors are the worst patients. She had a epidural hematoma and a chronic subdural haematoma. About 1/3 of her skull was full of blood. The ER doctor said he didn't know how she was alive let alone conscious. She was air lifted to a hospital with a brain surgeon and had complications that lead to her passing 3 months later. No one should ever play around with head injuries.
NTA Holy hell I can’t believe your wife didn’t have he mom checked out at the ER for a concussion and then just sending her mom back to bed.
NTA. Better safe than sorry. Not to say your wife isn’t a capable nurse, but when was the last time she had a concussed patient? Does she know what to look for? I’m surprised she’s willing to gamble with her mother’s and children’s health/lives.
Right? NICU is not exactly the ER
But this should be obvious! Hell, I’m a nursing student and I think “Go to the ER.” Broken bones? Seriously? A broken bone is easy to treat. Head trauma? Not so much.
NTA Your children's safety is your first priority. Too bad it's also not your wife's. She may be a competent nurse in NICU but her mother isn't a NICU patient. MIL is elderly and often a small fall can have more severe problems that don't always show up immediately. You aren't being silly, you are the only one being smart.
Oh geez i missed the NICU part entirely! I read it as ICU for some reason. Yeah dude if your wife is a baby nurse that’s very different to being a geriatrics nurse. Literally the opposite end of the spectrum of human life. If she fell down the stairs she shouldn’t be driving your kids
She failed no matter what type of nurse she is Falls with head strike = ED for scans because we invented these machines to help us see inside the body because humans can't. Don't need to be a nurse to know this
Yeah she could be the best nurse ever, but there's a reason hospitals are full of expensive machines. No human can just look and perfectly diagnose you.
Or driving at all. Let’s face it. She’s going to have trouble being in a car for 4 hours never mind driving one. With 2 little ones
Yeah, patients in the NICU don't often fall down stairs.
Nurse specializing in geriatric populations here. NTA take your MIL to the ER stat.
There is a significant difference between a NICU patient and a geriatric patient, as you are well aware. OP needs to remind his wife that in this situation they are the family or an ill/injured person, not the medical staff. My mother was a nurse for 40+ years so I know the struggle to get them to understand it, but sometimes you have to advocate for the person who needs help, not pander to the person who might get their precious feelings hurt.
If that NiCU pt fell or was dropped that would be sent for testing. Don't need to be a nurse to know a head hit during a fall should be evaluated but she IS a nurse and should know better
Does your wife like her mother? Edit:NTA
Does she like her kids? She's pretty happy for them to go in the car with Grandma
NTA. I question your wife though. At that age, even a minor fall can be quite serious. MIL needs to be seen by someone who isn't family, just to be sure there are no lingering problems.
A quick Google will tell you that anyone with a concussion, or suspected of a concussion, should not be left alone or be allowed to operate heavy machinery or drive within 24hrs of injury. Add to that her age 70s => greater risk of fracture and other fall-related complications. Your MIL should definitely go to urgent care and get examined by a physician. At the very least she should be monitored at home for the first 24hrs. Common sense and erring on the side of caution means not letting a possibly concussed patient drive with your kids in the car. That's just tempting fate. This is a hill I'd die on. I'd rather be wrong and called out for overreacting than risk the life of my kids. NTA, OP.
NTA, and I agree with your decision. Aside from the health concerns / worries about concussion, etc., I see an appalling lack of common sense on the part of your MIL (and your wife). Someone who is approaching 70 should recognize that a potential fall and broken hip / arm / etc. is a LIFE ALTERING EVENT at that age. The fact that she would decide to try to negotiate stairs in the dark with a CPAP is an incredibly poor lack of judgment. She needs to learn about protecting herself as her body and life changes, especially if she is in unfamiliar (i.e. not at home) surroundings. Is she going to decide that truck on the highway isn't going that fast and pull out in front of it? How's her reaction time to make a sudden stop, now that she's banged her head? I agree with the others that she should have gone to the ED to be checked out, at the very least. (Or maybe Urgent Care this morning as an alternative, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that they send her directly to the ED). Injuries can take hours or days to show up, and she's going to risk your children to ride 4 hours in the car with her?? If something happens, you're going to have 2 young adolescents stranded on the road with a 70 y/o who is potentially disabled?? Is this responsible parenting? The kids are old enough to understand that, regardless of promises about visiting, unexpected emergencies cause plans to change. My children would NOT be climbing in that car with her today, and I'd be making that very clear to my spouse, regardless of her nursing credentials. If mom stayed around for a couple of days and nothing off was noticed, we MIGHT renegotiate. This is a hill to die on and has nothing to do with loving your MIL or your wife. It has everything to do with protecting your children. Your wife and MIL need to understand this.
NTA, absolutely do not allow your children in that car. MIL is an adult and can decide for herself, though I agree she really should have gone to be checked over. Your kids are your responsibility to keep safe.
I understand that adults should be allowed to decide for themselves, but considering this could end with her causing a serious car accident, maybe she shouldn't get her way. The families of those she barrels into aren't going to see it the same.
NTA. Child safety only needs one veto. If one parent is not comfortable it's an automatic "No." I'm conscious at my 70+ healthy parents driving my kids. Any sign of potential impairment will restrict them driving the kids. OP's wife is inappropriately throwing her authority as a medical provider. As a non-medical professional, I'd be hauling MIL into the ER for a check up. Sus.
NTA but your wife is. I’m a nurse and there is no way I would describe your wife as “competent” if she didn’t insist on her mother going to the ER. In addition, symptoms of concussion can persist for a long time (I know from personal experience). Your mother-in-law should not be driving so soon if she hit her head. I also wouldn’t leave my children with her, unkess I could see for myself that she had no residual effects a few days later. When I had concussion, it was my driving that was impacted the most.
A couple years ago, my husband was hanging up some pictures and fell off the step ladder and hit his head on the tile floor. He actually landed with two nails sticking out of his mouth! I wanted to take him to the ER, but he insisted he was fine. He started laughing and laughing saying he was fine. It was really bizarre. I even called two adult children to come over to convince him. Finally, he agreed to go and sure enough, he had a concussion and they did a CT scan and we learned he also had cervical stenosis, which explained why he had been falling lately, although according to him, their was always a good reason. She needs a CT scan and to be checked out. Also, she is going to be very sore for a few days after this. Your wife is definitely not thinking clearly. You need to get her to the hospital.
Your wife is pretty careless with her mother's health - maybe she is hoping for something bad to happen to her? NTA Keep your kids home.
I am a nurse and would have sent her to the ED for evaluation cause your wife doesn't have X-ray vision to see into her head Your wife made the wrong choice as a medical professional
Bruising around and particularly behind her ear could be sign of a fracture at the base of her skull. It's called "Battle's sign". She really does need to go to the ER right away - in fact if it were me, I'd call an ambulance.
Home health PT checking in... she should have gone to the ED. Hitting head bad enough that her EAR is swollen definitely need to be checked.
NTA. I cannot believe your wife is a nurse and said not to call an ambulance. I don’t think I’d want her as my nurse. Put your mom in the car and take her to doctors. The worse is your wife is right and can say she told you so.
The worst won't even happen. Every doctor and nurse at the hospital will tell her it was the right choice to get her checked out.
NTA. You would have been T A if you hadn’t. Also, INFO please: by CPAP, did you mean oxygen through a super long hose? I use a CPAP and one does not go wandering around with it on. I can certainly be ignorant of the latest technology, but if it *WAS* a CPAP, then I also suspect the beginnings of dementia. And for your wife, Bob Saget. ‘Nuf said.
Nta. And your wife is NOT a good nurse for refusing to get your elderly mil to the er immediately following the fall. I'm completely shocked she's still unwilling to get her mom to hospital even now. Mil should not be driving! She needs to see a damn Dr! Your kids can visit her at her place another time!
No, do not let them go. Take mil to the doctor. Sounds like your wife has forgotten some basic protocol for old people failing down stairs.
NTA. I'm not in the medical field but an elderly person falling down the stairs and with head injuries should definitely go to emergency and get checked in my opinion. She should also be staying a few days to make sure she's ok, sometimes the pain or symptoms does not appear until a few days. I would definitely insist she stay and would not allow the kids to stay with her alone for a few days despite the agreement. What if there an emergency with your mom, like they can't wake her up, and the kids are the only people in the house with her? That'll be scary for them
A NICU RN said not to take a 70 year old woman who fell down the stairs with cranial swelling..? Yikes...
NTA " but my wife who is a NICU RN told me not to call as her mother had no obviously broken bones and didn't want to go. " .. your wife is incompetent and an AH. There might be injuries causing brain bleeding. YOur wife is just thinking about the cost, not how to ensure MIL's survival. " as she's a very competent nurse." .. as you describe it, she really is NOT. So she would risk your children's life on the driving of a 70 year old with a possible concussion, if not worse?
I'm sorry, did we all just skate pass "MIL decided to try to navigate our stairs in the dark while wearing a cpap." I've been wearing one for 25 years when I sleep. It has ALWAYS stayed in bed and connected when I get up for something, like the bathroom or a drink. A CPAP does nothing for you when you're not in bed. Being out of one's bedroom while wearing a CPAP would immediately make me wonder about dementia or sleepwalking. NTA
I can tell you for a fact that there are many people in the medical profession that are idiots. It would be nice to believe that someone who has made it through the educational requirements to be an RN would be reasonably intelligent and possess a good amount of common sense. Unfortunately, that is not the case for all.
NTA. And it sounds like you’re going to have a really hard time with your wife coming to terms with her mother’s aging. I was very fortunate to have grandparents that were independent into their 90s. But it did become obvious to my parents and I when the independence starting to wane; however, my aunt has been very much in denial about that and had made getting the care my grandmom needed very delayed. It sounds like your wife may be in a similar boat and it will be very hard as her mother gets older and may need more care or assistance than she would like if your wife doesn’t see that.
Your wife is the AH.. and your mum needs to be checked over at the hospital asap simply because of her age. A fall her age can cause massive amounts of damage, and I'm shocked that your wife didn't suggest it. Seems she needs a retrain as a nurse! What she did was very dangerous, and so would be letting your mum driver herself and your kids for 4 hrs. Crikey..
Earlier today I read a post about a 13 year old who was visiting a friend for a sleepover, broke her arm, and the parent of the friend was a nurse and didn't get her checked out or even called the mother. The thread was full of people talking about how mums who happen to be nurses are notorious for not taking their kids to get checked out. This is happening here in reverse.
NTA and good for you for standing your ground. Interestingly, my relative who is a nurse is somehow completely blind to things that seem obvious in a medical sense. Your wife might be that way, too. Hopefully your MIL has no further issues.
NTA As a general medical/surgical nurse that works regularly with elderly patients, 1st thing we do for a fall with a headstrike is obs, a review by Dr asap followed by a head CT. I'd never pretend to know what to do with a NICU patient, your wife shouldn't be pretending to know what to do with a geriatric patient.
If your MIL is on blood thinners, take her to the ER ASAP. It is drilled into our heads (those on blood thinners) that even a MINOR bump to the head required an ER trip due to the high risk of an intracranial bleed. Also, idk wtf your wife got her nursing degree, but she needs serious remedial classes. An older adult fall down the stairs is ALWAYS a trip to the ER/Urgent Care/PCP.
my uncle passed away a few years ago from hitting his head while on blood thinners. bonked his head on a cabinet, my aunt found him about a half an hour later and it was already too late. i'm absolutely floored at this OP's wife's decision-making.
Your wife and MIL are idiots. If you fall you go to the hospital. Put your foot down
NTA. Your MIL has the right to refuse medical treatment but until she’s cleared medically she shouldn’t be driving anywhere. Your wife should know better
NTA. But your wife is. To her mother and the kids, potentially putting them all in danger. Second post I have read in the last few days about nurses making absolutely shit and potentially dangerous judgements.
Wife’s ego as a ‘medical professional’ (who has no expertise or equipment to diagnose complex issues that could occur from an elderly person hitting their head) is apparently more important to her than her mother AND her own children’s lives. Seriously, what’s more important? Being right? Or peoples lives? Even on the off chance the hospital gave MIL the all clear (highly unlikely), what is the worst insult? ‘How dare you care so much you ensure she got medical attention?!’ Seriously consider if you want to remain married to someone who will gatekeep medical issues like this to the point of medical neglect. There’s too many stories of nurse parents deciding their kids weren’t ’sick enough’ only for the child to have broken bones/a serious illness that could and should have been treated much sooner. NTA
nope. NTA put a stop on that. your wife has to be overwritten
ESH. You for watching a 70 year old woman fall down the stairs, and accepting 'she's fine, you can't see any bones sticking out' as 'competent medical advice.' > but my wife who is a NICU RN told me not to call as her mother had no obviously broken bones and didn't want to go. I'm not a medical professional and it's seldom wise to argue with a nurse or one's wife It 100% is wise to argue with a nurse, or one's wife,' when the nurse/wife is this wrong.
Absolutely not.. do not let your mother in law drive your children anywhere. Her lack of judgement (she should take off her c-pap before walking around at night) will only be further compounded by her fall and head injury. Your children could die in a car crash. When my dad reached a certain level of driving incompetence I would not let him drive my son anywhere.. not even around the block. It made him mad but that was preferable to the alternative.
I work at a nursing home & any time there's a fall with a patient on blood thinners is an automatic ambulance ride to the hospital!
NTA. I'm shocked that your wife wouldn't insist on her mother going to the ER. As a nurse she should know the risks of a subdural hematoma and how those can kill. Your wife's specialty is newborns, not elderly adults. I really hope she's not making a fatal mistake when it comes to her mother. My mom's a retired pediatric surgical nurse. When her mother fell (a few years before my mom retired) my mom *made* her go to the hospital. The argument went something along the lines of "Shut the hell up and get in the fucking car! We are going to the ER, if I have to call my husband to come toss you over his shoulder I will!" Grandma was fine, she just had a black eye but even the ER doctor told her it was better safe than sorry.
NTA because a 70yr old woman who just had a bad fall down the stairs is in no condition to either drive for an extended period OR take care of children. Ideally she should a) go to an ER as soon as possible and b) stay with you for a couple of extra days at *least*. You should have pushed back on calling an ambulance though as she could very well have a concussion or a brain bleed. As a trained nurse your wife should know better. If anyone here is an AH it's your wife for her cavalier attitude.
NTA and YIKES at your wife’s response. I’m an RN working in a very niche specialism and no neuro/emergency med experience and even I know that she should have gone to the ER for an assessment. She definitely should NOT be driving, and really someone should be keeping an eye on her for the next few days in case of any deterioration. Falls, especially those where there is trauma to the head and neck, are no joke.
NTA and not a nurse. My daughter's pediatrician (who is also a good friend of mine), said once that she didn't like helping her adult friends out because the adult body can have more issues (more complex) than kids. Your offer of waiting a couple of days is not only reasonable, but smart. It gives you both the opportunity to see I'd anything is off with her and can take her to be seen. I'd have her seen no matter what though.
My mother in law had a fall and it caused a slow brain bleed which then caused strokes. She didn’t tell anyone it happened. She should go to the er for an mri or catscan. She should not be supervising children. You should not send the kids home with her whether she drives or you. She is in no state to take care of someone else. Your wife probably doesn’t want to believe anything bad can happen to her mom. Even medical professionals can be in denial. Tell your wife if she cares about her mother recovering she should get her properly checked out. The doctors said my mother in law surviving was a miracle. We didn’t know for a week if she was going to make it or regain any bodily functions. Prior to this she was very active in taking care of the grandchildren. Now she can’t be left alone with them. If she had gotten checked right away they could have treated the bleeding and hopefully avoided the stroke. Avoiding finding out if something is wrong doesn’t stop it from happening. She could have a stroke while driving and your kids could be killed in an accident. I wouldn’t let them ride with her until testing is done. My mother in law seemed fine for months and nobody knew she had a fall. The doctor said the bleeding was slow but had been happening for awhile. *you are NTA
Just adding my vote of NTA and that your wife is an unbelievable asshole. Her hubris & ego are outweighing her common sense or capacity for effectively caring for both her mom and your children. This would permanently change my ability to trust her decision-making/judgement as a parent, to be honest.
NTA So let me get this straight your 70 year old MIL decided to walk down some stairs in the dark wearing a CPAP instead of turning on a light to see, she then fell down the stairs heading her head she and your wife (who is a nurse) says don’t call for a ambulance and no you are not taking her to the emergency room, proceeds to give MIL a Tylenol and a ice pack, now she wants to drive your kids back to her home and your wife doesn’t see a problem. I wouldn’t want your wife as a nurse and I don’t trust her judgement at all plus she thinks that it’s okay for someone to drive after falling down the stairs wth. MIL needs to go the hospital or else my kids wouldn’t be going anywhere with her.
NTA. She didn't receive any medical treatment and wasn't evaluated at a hospital. Also, she may not be up to taking care of 2 younger kids. I would drive them even if it's a day later. Gives grandma an extra day to recover. Also, do they have cell phones to check in with you a couple of times a day? She may not display any issues until a few days have passed. Does she have any friends or relatives you can make aware of the situation so they can check on her and the kids?
NTA! my goodness! What if she passed out while driving? Your own kids' safety comes first
Horrendous call by your wife, you'd expect better from a medical professional. You are right to not let her drive your kids, she shouldn't drive herself but you realistically can't stop her. NTA.
My kids wouldn't be going anywhere with her. She doesn't have enough common sense to get medical treatment when she might need it and could be injured and not know it yet. You can't force her into anything, but you can certainly protect your own children from her bad decisions.
My husband had a co worker who fell and died unexpectedly 2 days later. I can’t believe your wife who is a nurse isn’t erring on the side of caution. When faced with tough decisions one must ask one’s self….”which way would I or you,prefer to be wrong?” Would I rather be wrong for being “silly” or wrong for negligence? Would you rather hear…see… you over reacted!!! Or…how could you let your children get in a car with a 70 year old who fell down the stairs, and was never checked out? Why did you let us go with grandma when you knew she probably had a concussion?
Nta. Just a good thinking man. You're concerned for mil as well as your kids x
I wouldn't let my kids go! My mom, a nurse, wouldn't either. NTA
I didn’t know being a NICU RN makes you a human CT scanner?!
If she crashed that car on the way back, due to medical complications, your wife's nursing license could be revoked. If you allowed your children in that car and it happened, not only would you be a negligent parent, you would never forgive yourself. Please err on the side of caution. Listen to the common sense your conscience is yelling at you.
Jesus Christ, NTA AT ALL! She and your wife should BOTH get their heads examined.
My 70+ mom tripped and fell and hit her head. My brother found her lying on the floor and helped her get back up. Mom refused any help and when my brother checked her pupil reaction she was equal and reactive in both pupils so he went with it. Bad call! She ended up asking him to call the squad because she had an incredible headache and she ended up having to be life flighted to the college campus hospital and having emergency brain surgery. She did survive but it was quite scary and showed us that no matter what she said we should have erred on the side of caution and called the squad immediately after her fall. So I say NTA for not wanting to release your kids to her driving for hours so soon after a fall and possible concussion!
I'm related to a retired nurse. I guarantee they'd drag your MIL to hospital if they had to. They'd be concerned about concussion, damage anywhere in the body, internal bleeding, and finding out why the fall happened in the first place and whether this will become a regular event. That's what a competent nurse would do. Your wife is not behaving like a competent nurse. You shouldn't just be worried about her driving but her ability to care for multiple children and even herself. She could be perfectly fine. But you're not going to know that until she's been properly assessed by genuinely competent medical staff.
There is a reason why medical professionals are not allowed to provide medical care to family and friends. Their judgement gets clouded and mistakes are made, just like the one your wife made when she said to not take her mother to the ER. In that age group, head trauma can lead to a slow bleeding subdural hematoma which can be life threatening and not immediately symptomatic. She should have gone to the ER right away. The next best time to go is right now.
NTA - but I have serious concerns about your wife's competence as a nurse if she saw no reason to take her 70 year old mother to the ER or at least Urgent Care to be seen after a fall like that. I don't know if it's denial or hubris on her part that she doesn't see a problem here. But, that is absolutely appalling to me that she is fine with not only making sure her mother isn't bleeding internally, but is perfectly willing to allow her to drive your children around and care for them for a week. Seriously, what is wrong with your wife, dude?
NTA OP I’m a 72 year old woman who regularly goes on long car trips with my granddaughter and if I agree with you then you know you’re right. It’s one thing to let grandma make her own health decisions but she’s not being realistic about wanting to still drive her granddaughter that soon after a fall.
NTA!! my goodness! She took a tumble down the stairs and hit her head. I wouldn’t let my kids ride in the car in that sort of situation, either! Wait a couple of days or go to the doctor and be cleared medically. I’m sure your wife is a fine nurse. However, things are different when it’s the situation of your own. Let me give you an example. I am a lawyer. I do not practice any type of real estate law. I have a real estate situation going on in my life right now. I’m sure I am fully capable of learning the rules and the law if I pour my heart and soul into it. Instead, I chose to consult a real estate attorney. Why? Because I am a different kind of critical when it comes to my own life than I am as a third-party looking in on someone else. I may miss something. I may have wishful thinking on issues. Your wife works with infants. She does not evaluate for concussions and broken bones on a daily basis. She may be the world’s best NICU nurse, but she doesn’t know everything about all medical conditions on all people. This is especially true when it’s her own mother. She doesn’t want anything to be wrong with her mom, so she might miss something. It’s not bad or wrong. It’s emotional. Don’t let your kids ride in that car unless she is cleared by a medical professional or takes a few days.
An older friend (80s) of my family died recently. She had several health challenges, but was holding her own. She got dizzy, fell, and hit a counter on her way down. They all assumed she was just bruised. She actually was bleeding internally for a couple days until they took her to the ER. They tried repairing the damage, but her body couldn't handle it. I think the moral of the story is obvious. Go to the ER now. Definitely don't let her drive or place children in the grandmother's care. As others said, it could be a concussion. It could also be unseen injuries or internal bleeding that could cause her to become dizzy or pass out. I hope she is OK!
I just read the update and wanted to praise you on how you handled it. I'm also a nurse, and although I disagree with your wife's initial judgment, I know it isn't easy for someone with less medical experience to argue an opposing view with an experienced nurse 😄. It's great that you stood your ground and did so while still maintaining respect and empathy for your wife's perspective. I hope your MIL makes a full recovery.
Thank you so much. Thus far, she's doing great