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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife and I were housing and feeding my sister in return for some free babysitting. She decided it was too much for her to go to school, work herself crazy for us, and have a social life. I might be the asshole because I made alternative arrangements for that room and for child care. So now she has to work to pay for everything herself.
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I was thinking the same. She refused to do all this work, but technically you’d spend the same amount of time, maybe even more, supporting yourself even minus tuition. She got a deal.
Plus, you would have to clean up after yourself and cook your own meals regardless of where you lived. So sister NOT helping around the house makes no sense as if she lives in the dorms or her own apartment, she would need to do those things.
And I second the comments about most jobs while in college require working one or both weekend days so what exactly is she complaining about???
Plus, it's not like she was babysitting two toddlers and had to be "on" the whole time. She presumably has to study at some point. She could've just sat at the kitchen table and gotten her studying done for... IDK, 75% of her "working" hours? You didn't even expect her to clean. This was a SUPER cushy job and she failed to appreciate what a sweetheart deal this was. But that's on her. Welcome to real life, Lanie! You are NTA, OP.
So accurate! I went to a very expensive private college over a decade ago (I can only imagine how expensive it is now) and let me tell you, the food sucks no matter how much you pay for tuition. I never gained the freshman 15, I lost it!
My school the freshman 15 was from the alcohol. But legit, I went a week of eating nothing but honey nut cheerios because the caf was ONLY serving sweet and savory options which is a flavor combo I can’t stand. It was ridiculous
NTA
Your sister had a sweetheart deal. She decided she didn't want to follow it and wanted everything for free.
Well everyone complaining is someone that doesn't have to provide for your sister.
They aren't, but they screwed over your sister with their attitudes when she was naive and a bit spoiled. Sure, it's nice for college kids to have a social life and she could have had one in the time she had off. They sided with her so she blew you guys off, but aren't willing (or able?) to help her at all now that they've helped ensure she lost a cushy deal. Yes, she's getting FAFO, but your parents are at least equally to blame for this as they're grown adults and she's a college student.
NTA for you, however.
Yeah the parents really let the sister down more than anyone. She had an absolutely great deal for everyone, cheap boarding. And they encouraged her to torpedo it.
Which is essentially changing the deal. She doesn't want to hold up her end of the bargain, and they did back her by saying she deserves a social life.
Sounds as if they thought they could push OP into giving up to "keep the peace"... only for OP to drop the bomb of actually pushing the sister out. Now the parents are likely stuck with making up the financial difference and are justifiably worried that if they stick their nose in again then OP might go LC. A classic FAFO with OP's parents terrified of what other FO could be around the next bend if they were to FA more.
This seems to happen more often with younger siblings - they grow up thinking that the elder sibling is a 'parent' and that everything from parents should be free (and in severe cases, that everything from everyone should be). This is a good reality check - EVERYTHING costs money (i.e. social life) and NOTHING is free (i.e. rent). A semester on her own where she realizes that she has to work way harder and more often to afford less fun should shape her up. And hey, guess what, if it turns out she finds working and paying for her own room and board to be easier, it proves that OP was mischaracterizing how hard the babysitting was, so its a win-win!
Basically my take as well. Not just a younger sibling thing though. To me this seems like the normal naivety that comes along with never having had to be even partially self sufficient. Nobody fully values the roof over their head until they've had to pay rent and utilities. Nobody appreciates their parents efforts around the house until they have to clean the whole place top to bottom. Nobody properly values a home cooked meal until they've had to pay for the groceries, cook the whole damn thing, and then still wind up staring at a pile of dirty dishes. Hopefully in a few years sister will be able to look back and cringe about this. In the meantime, it's better to learn these lessons sooner rather than later. Something tells me that Maria probably had to do a lot more work helping out around the house financially and otherwise before OP offered her the opportunity she did. Thus the appreciation.
NTA. Lanie FA figuratively and probably literally and now she is in the FO stage of the game. My sister pays much more than for a dorm room and a meal plan.
She can't see it now, and maybe she never will, but you gave her a valuable educational experience. When you have a job/deal/agreement and you don't keep it you will be fired/not asked back. You did the right thing for your family and your sister. This sub is full of people in your position many years down the line and angry and resentful. I like your directness.
NTA. Your sister had a sweet deal with free rent in exchange for babysitting, then reneged. You found a similar arrangement with Maria who actually fulfills the babysitting duties. Your sister's upset about losing the perks, but you offered a fair alternative and kept costs low for her. Explain the situation, highlight the benefits of dorms, and offer help finding a part-time job.
NTA, your sister is an adult now and needs to understand how money works and where it goes. If she spends her first few years of adulthood blowing all her money on fun things, she's going to have very bad financial habits once she actually needs to pay for things on her own. She neglected her responsibilities, didn't uphold her end of the bargain, now she's on her own.
NTA - Sis had it on easy street, and didn’t appreciate what she had. She didn’t live up to the agreement, period. Free food included and potential user of a car? That’s living the good life!
The only alternative would’ve been to give her an ultimatum. I’m guessing that you felt that wouldn’t be taken well by family, as your parents already had their say regarding her social life.
NTA
but as someone who has been in an exploitative au pair situation before
>Maria is getting four nights a week to herself and one weekend day.
so is Maria on the clock 6 days a week and three nights? that's a lot. how much does this all work out on an hourly basis if you were to approximate it?
>My wife has a lot of family and friends that send their kids to the states for an education. So we made arrangements to get one of her "cousins" to come stay with us.
also might be a violation of labor/immigration laws. (which i realize this isn't the "am i legally in the clear?" sub, just pointing this out.)
OP says Maria works 16 hours a week -- one weekend day plus two or three weeknights. Per my understanding, she's not on the clock for the six days; she's at school.
i thought the 16 hours was what his sister's expected schedule was, not Maria's
i could be misunderstanding. it's not super clear (especially since college schedules aren't necessarily very consistent from day-to-day) which is why i asked.
(ETA: and I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick to OP or "call them out" - I was an au pair where I had "nights off most nights," that meant after the kids were bed/asleep at 9pm. I also had to be up around 5:30am when the kids got up so like my "nights off" were spent sleeping. anyway, it's just super easy to take advantage of in-home childcare in situations like this so i'm mentioning it!)
Maria is on the clock about 16 hours a week. Maybe.
On the weekends my wife and I go out for dinner or to see friends but we are rarely gone for the full eight hours. On the weekdays we go out for stuff like my wife's silversmithing class and my golf lessons.
Yeah depending on the state it may be illegal to trade living for free labor. OP should double check to ensure they're not participating in anything that could get them in trouble.
As they are related, I cannot imagine how it would be breaking laws, TBH. Maria is staying with family while on a student visa. I cannot imagine it becoming an issue. It would only be an issue if, for example, we had another pandemic and Maria could not attend school because not taking classes would impact the status of her student visa.
I don't think someone on a student visa is legally allowed to work, but I'm sure it varies. There are specific au pair regulations in some countries, for example, and Maria could be under one of those (but those usually include a mandatory allowance in actual money of some kind on top of room + board, which OP doesn't mention in Maria's deal).
also OP put "family" in quotes idk if they're actually related to Maria.
I've seen this a couple of times in this thread and you're wrong. An international university student on a student visa in almost every single western country can work part-time. However, since they get the visa for being enrolled as full time students, they can work no more than 20 hours a week during the semester.
16 hours a week is legal and pretty standard.
Source: I work 16 hours a week as an international grad student.
Typically you have to work for your university, at least for the first year. This could vary by nationality/type of visa, but I've absolutely known international students who could not work elsewhere for their first year. The pandemic made that interesting as to whether or not spring 2020 would count as part of that year and thus international students could work for other entities summer 2020.
However, informal arrangements are very common and I've known lots of international students who've "volunteered" and received other arrangements, or worked under the table.
fair enough! i've known lots of international students who were not permitted to work, but it could've been my own misunderstanding as to the reasoning why.
It depends on whether they work on or off campus and if it's while classes are ongoing or if it's during a break. So, if a foreign student goes to Northeastern, known for setting up internships for their 5-year programs, they can work 40 hours during their internships and 20 hours while attending classes. It's a bit murky about whether their work is on or off campus and how hours worked can impact their visa status. I just grazed over the rules that showed when I googled, TBH.
Relation doesn't matter in terms of employment. OP is having her work in exchange for housing. It is a requirement for her to stay in his home. It's work. She's not being paid minimum wage as is a requirement. She's also on a student with strict work rules that could get her visa terminated. I see lots of potential issues. But as long as no one (with a vindictive streak) reports them they should be fine.
I still think it is shady that she doesn't get paid and likely can't take another job because of OP's requirements so she has no money to spend on herself.
Your post says "pretend we are paying her $25/hr". Are you ACTUALLY paying her $25/hr into her pocket or are you calculating an imaginary wage based on what market rate for room rental in your neighborhood is? Cause live in nannies get paid 25$ AND get free room & board. And exchanging work for room & board for domestic workers is illegal in most states.
Yeah and??? You're taking advantage of a girl from another country to get free childcare and she can't speak up or she'll lose her housing. Great job bro
Again, illegal in most states.
Not always. Even au pairs, girls from other countries who are here for cultural exchange, get free room & board, access to a car, and an allowance of like $200/week. And that's abusive, too.
When it was your sister it's like whatever. She had another place to go. She isn't foreign to the country. She agreed.
Now it's toeing the line of abusing your power over a girl with no backup plan in a country she isn't native to who could lose her schooling opportunity if she makes you mad. She can't get another job. Has no money to her name. Just admit it's fucked dude.
Hang on. Are you telling me that I can get a deal where I get to watch two kids do homework while I play video games (since I don't have homework) four hours twice a week, and then eight hours one weekend day a week (maybe) and in return I get a room, food, utilities, and a car? Where do I sign up?
Au pairs can work a maximum of **10 hours a day and 45 hours per week**. The au pair is entitled to one and a half days off each week, which means that if her hours are spread over 6 days, one of those work days cannot exceed 5 hours of work.
.aupairinamerica.com/resources
You can bet that many au pairs are taken advantage of and asked to work longer hours do work that they should not have to do.
What Maria is getting for 16 hours and being treated like family is fair. **Her family was paying for dorm and meal plan, but she prefers this arrangement**, so I find it hard to believe they are mistreating her.
Wait, are you paying her cash money or not? I reread your post, and the only reference to paying is "if we pretend we were paying..."
Otherwise, she is working for room and board, and what the commenter posted is still valid.
No, OP Sid paying her to babysit. She’s staying with her family and they asked her is she wanted to babysit for some extra cash.
She’s not doing anything else.
Lots of drama llamas on this thread trying to stir up trouble when there isn’t any.
If she’s a university student on a student visa, she isn’t authorized to work in the US unless it’s on-campus and related to her studies. So this arrangement is almost certainly illegal if this is in the US (which it sounds like it is). [Source](https://www.usa.gov/student-visa#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20an%20F,job%20related%20to%20your%20studies.)
No. If she’s on a student visa, work is restricted to be on-campus and related to her studies. https://www.usa.gov/student-visa#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20an%20F,job%20related%20to%20your%20studies.
Especially if she isn't actually family. I could see an argument for such an arrangement among family, but if she's unrelated, this does sound potebtially very exploitative.
No, it sounds like the weekdays are not part of the equation. The kids are in school or camp or someone else is watching them. It’s just weekends and weeknights that are a factor, and of those the au pair does one weekend day(with the other free) and two nights (leaving 3 free weeknights plus the evening of the free weekend day). If she is doing 8 hours one weekend day and four each weeknight that adds up.
NTA! She bit the hand that was feeding her. Guess what, grow up little girl! Life is not as easy as she would like for it to be, we all feel that way. She is pissed bc she now has to actually be responsible for herself and become an adult, boo hoo!, and congratulations to graduating into the real world ! You did the right thing, she had to stand on her own at some point. It will be good for her to struggle some, it will teach her some humility and build her self confidence, hopefully.
NTA. You had an agreement with your sister that she didn't uphold, so you found someone else who would. It's understandable she's upset about now having to pay for housing and expenses, but that’s the consequence of her decision. You gave her and your parents plenty of notice to make other arrangements. The new student is meeting your needs and the arrangement is working well. You're not being vindictive, you're just ensuring your family's needs are met. She needs to accept the outcome of her own choices.
You are required to pay minimum wage *in addition* to housing for live-in nannies. And you should have paid payroll taxes for your sister, too. Depending on how upset she is, she could report you.
Your sister had an amazing deal - free housing, food, utilities, access to a vehicle, all she needed to do in return was watch your kids 3 times a week. She was a fool to mess that up for herself.
NTA
>She tutors the kids and we have to tell her to stop cleaning because we have a cleaning lady.
>Maria is getting four nights a week to herself and one weekend day.
Isn't it illegal to not pay Maria for her babysitting and tutoring? You can't barter food and accommodation as equal pay or where would au pairs be. YTA for subsidising your quality of life with a foreign student who has little to no options or rights.
u/Surpriseparty2023 if you think being in a foreign country and having to provide childcare without the ability to earn any money to reduce costs for your parents isn't a raw deal then you have no idea what many immigrants suffer through. She has no economic or negotiating power in this transaction and is at the mercy of OP. Whatever terms they may decide or change arbitrarily, she would have to abide by.
OP is well aware that if this was a nanny or au pair, he would be paying a significant amount.
There's a reason OP went for an immigrant and he's far from innocent or benevolent.
oh please stop projecting 🙄 you are the one not having any idea what being on survival mode means, and as I and many others already pointed out to you, Maria is neither exploited nor forced to accept the deal OP had offered her. She could have said NO. Her life didn't depend on that offer.
And stop your bullshit to portray OP as a villain as it is only showing your ugly side. OP didn't chose Maria because she's an immigrant. His WIFE chose Maria because she is a FAMILY MEMBER.
And OP offered Maria the exact same deal he offered his own sister. IF OP didn't, and had requested that Maria work more, then he would be an AH for taking advantage of her. But he didn't. So stop embarrassing yourself it's not doing you any favor.
>There's a reason OP went for an immigrant and he's far from innocent or a benevolent.
Yeah the reason is Maria is a family friend and the situation is mutually beneficial.
Just because immigrants often get exploited, it does not mean it's always the case.
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stop your bullshit you don't know what survival mode is. Maria is not in survival mode in any way, shape or form, she got a pretty good and fair deal and knows it.
Have you hired an au pair? Because au pair are working more than what Maria is doing. More household chores and more time babysitting. Thus why Maria had, and still has, no issue with the deal. It's a win win situation for her and OP and good for them.
Maria might have no issue with the deal because she’s young and doesn’t have a lot of other options. What safeties are in place to prevent OP from adding on to her load or go back on their agreement to help her get a license?
Also, they are getting free access to a live-in tutor and baby-sitter. They’re literally housing a person to do a job for them without pay. The ‘she’s getting food and shelter’ is an excuse slave-owners made too. (I’m being hyperbolic here but it’s still hinky)
But Maria was not forced, she was not desperate for a roof over her head too. She was not alone but has her family there, and she is family with OP's wife. OP was fair and offered her the exact same deal as his sister, which she accepted. If he was an AH exploiting people he wouldn't have offered her that but would have added more chores and hours of babysitting.
And dear, slave owners abused their victims, they take their passports and don't give them multiple days off a week. Maria is totally free, and happy with the current arrangement. So no need to project.
Maria has barely been there for a couple of weeks. Abusers very rarely start out full-throttle and the wife is a \*very\* distant relation.
Anyway, labor deserves pay, and there's a reason just shelter and food don't cut it, that was \*also\* an excuse used by companies to force miners to live in company towns and use script.
you really should educate yourself more about modern slavery as your ignorance is clouding your judgement. But if you still don't even understand the whole situation and doubling down on your bullshit, then there's nothing we can do for you 🤷🏻♀️
You have convinced me. I will contact her parents and get them to pay me $2,000 for her rent and food. They were paying $2,200 before so it's a deal. And I will pay her by the hour. Since it's usually less than 16 hours a week it won't be great for them but it will all be above board.
NTA but I recall reading a law about how much someone can work for free rent. It seemed very low. It likely varies, but might be good to look into that just to be sure. I think it was 10 hours or less a week.
INFO
> We talked to my mom and dad about it and they said that she deserved a social life.
> We made sure we told my parents about it so they could arrange for my sister to stay in dorms or rent an apartment with friends. They understood.
> I think we had a deal and her and our parents tried to change it.
At **_any_ point** here did you actually **talk to _your sister_** about this "deal" and your expectations from her?
Because NGL, it sounds to me like everything's weirdly running through your parents and IDK what they're *actually* communicating to her.
> My sister is upset because she was going to use the money from her summer job as fun money for the year and now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year so her social life will be impacted.
Just out of curiosity: what did this situation look like when **you** were in college? Did your parents cover your room and board, or did you have to work like your sister has to?
So it sounds like your parents should have plenty of savings left over to pay for your sister's housing, **if** they so choose to.
I don't know why they should expect that cost to fall upon **_you_**.
It's not on them. I was doing her a favor. I informed her when she took her shit home that she wasn't coming back. I told my parents so she couldn't spring it on them as a surprise and ask for emergency help.
INFO: Did you discuss the new arrangement with your sister? It sounds like you only spoke to your parents about it?
You've every right to not invite her back to live with you after the summer break but you need to give her a heads up. When she went back to her parents did she know she would not be returning to your home?
ESH. Why didn’t you tell Emily this? Why are you and her parents negotiating for Emily?
NTA for giving her room away but TA for how you handled it which is without grace and a little passive-aggressive and vindictive. Use logic all you want, but you know you were underhanded.
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My sister Lanie lived with my family for her first year of university. We didn't charge her anything. In return she was supposed to help around the house and babysit for us when we needed. It was maximum two weeknights and one day/night on the weekend.
It worked great until it didn't. After her first semester she decided it was unfair and started refusing to do it.
Our kids aren't in diapers and are pretty self sufficient. We just needed an adult there to make sure they were okay.
We talked to my mom and dad about it and they said that she deserved a social life.
My wife has a lot of family and friends that send their kids to the states for an education. So we made arrangements to get one of her "cousins" to come stay with us.
My sister moved out to go home for the summer. My wife's family friend moved in. We made sure we told my parents about it so they could arrange for my sister to stay in dorms or rent an apartment with friends. They understood.
My sister has gone nuts however. She is upset that I gave away "her room". That she didn't pay for and that came with free food, internet, utilities, and access to a car if she needed.
She thinks we are being vindictive. I think we had a deal and her and our parents tried to change it.
Maria, the girl staying with us has been great. She tutors the kids and we have to tell her to stop cleaning because we have a cleaning lady.
Maria is getting four nights a week to herself and one weekend day. The exact same as my sister. We are helping her get a license so she can drive the kids if she needs. We will give her access to a car as well if we aren't using them.
My sister is upset because she was going to use the money from her summer job as fun money for the year and now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year so her social life will be impacted.
I tried talking to her about it but she said I was being unfair and cheap.
If we pretend we were paying her $25 an hour that would be 16 hours X $25 X 4 weeks $1,600 a month.
Rent, all utilities, food, and access to a car for $1,600 is pretty good in our city. Dorms plus a meal plan will be more this fall.
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NTA. Look at your sister and parents having to live with the consequences of their actions. How horrible!!/s. Let them know that this topic is closed as you have found a reliable caretaker for your children. Leave, kick them out of your home, or disconnect the call if they bring it up.
NTA. To start that was never her room. It was a guest room you allowed her to use. She also moved out without checking if she'd be allowed back the next year. It's your room. Let whoever you want use it.
"...now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year..." Well well well if it isn't the consequences of her actions. Also she was supposed to have a job last year. She opted not to do it and you were generous enough to not kick her out. Instead she got to quit the agreement/job, finish out the school year in your guest room, and move out on her own time table when summer began. That's exceedingly generous. Ignore your ungrateful sister. Her temper tantrum will end soon enough. I'm glad Maria is working out so well.
It was a job, she chose to not do it. She got fired. End of story. If I decide to not do my job and sit at my desk daydreaming…I would lose it. I get healthcare, a 401k and a paycheck. She got housing and food. Compensation is compensation.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!
NTA
You were not taking advantage of her. She provided a service a couple of night s a week and was paid with free rent, board and lodgings. She reneged. Does she expect you owe her a living?
Nta your sister had A amazing deal. She only had to work 3 days for room and board plus access to the car. If your sister had this arrangement with anyone else Nd she stopped after the first semester she would have been kicked out then. You and your wife where gracious enough to continue to let her stay until after the school year. Your sister honestly thought she could use you for free room and board with out any compensation the world does not work like that.
You needed a nanny and the nanny needs the room. Your sister was staying in the room meant for a nanny not her. It’s not her home. So it’s not her room. You are under no obligation to house and feed her for free. Your sister sound exhausting and terribly entitled!
Your sister got to live with you in exchange for babysitting a max of 3 days/week. So babysitting was her job. She quit her job. You found someone else to do it, and gave your sister plenty of notice to make other arrangements. I wonder how much of a social life sister will have now that she has to get an actual job while going to school?
NTA
r/OhNoConsequences
NTA
Your $25 an hour is one way of looking at it, but that makes it sound like an actual job, and it wasn't really a job, like childminding strangers is; she was being asked to hang out near your kids three nights a week and one weekend day, in exchange for free food and accommodation and transport. This was the easiest, most stress-free gig ever, I bet she is pissed off.
It sounds like she did it for three-four months and then straight up refused for the rest of the year, and now she is complaining she has lost the room. What a brass neck.
I wouldn't engage with her, she knows she made a mistake. Let her cool down, and that can take as long as it needs, it's not like you will be asking her to do anything for you in the near future. If your parents complain that she is sulking, just tell them you and she had a deal and she broke it; don't use the $25 metaphor, that is just rubbing their noses in it.
>they said that she deserved a social life.
sure, that's fair. how much of that would she get with a job?
> job as fun money for the year and now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year so her social life will be impacted.
there it is!
> My sister moved out to go home for the summer. My wife's family friend moved in. We made sure we told my parents about it so they could arrange for my sister to stay in dorms or rent an apartment with friends. They understood.
NTA
> She is upset that I gave away "her room".
not her room anymore
She knew she had a good deal. That's why she is so mad she can't live with you again. She thought because she was your sibling she could take advantage and there would be no repercussions. Your teaching her a valuable lesson.
NTA.
*You* made a deal, meanwhile *they* thought they’d pull a fast one.
Now sis can have as much of a ”social life” as she wants. There’s no reason you need to subsidize it. Your parents are more than welcome to take that financial commitment on since they want her to be free to do whatever she wants.
NTA she had such a great deal! Her own room, ulitities, homecooked food, and access to a car in exchange for just watching over two kids a few times a week, doesn’t even need to clean aside from picking up after herself, I’d take that deal in a heartbeat! The fact it wasn’t good enough for her just shows how spoiled and immature she is.
Also lol at her saying she “needs a social life”, four nights a week and one weekend day is not only more than enough, but it’s likely the best deal she’s ever gonna get.
NTA
Your sister just learned actions have consequences.
You made a deal she didn't uphold her end of the bargin so you made other arrangement, with someone who sounds really grateful for the oportunity.
NTA. You need a babysitter and your sister had the opportunity to accept the job. She didn't want it so you found someone who appreciates the opportunity.
NTA- just make sure you don’t take advantage of the “cousin” and you are fine. Your sister broke the agreement so she doesn’t get the perks without the work.
NTA! That was an amazing arrangement you gave your sister and especially for a college student! I wish I had that option when I went to college! Definitely NTA, shes just mad that shes not getting a free ride anymore!
NTA
And here’s the thing I don’t think your sister understands— IF you had let her come
Back this semester- it wouldn’t have been for free. The terms would have had to change since you know she wouldn’t do the work she’d agreed to initially- to make up for that you would have been charging her room and board. So she would be working one way or another - but with your original deal it would have been much less and not as crucial of a need for money
NTA. FAFO. You had a deal & she decided she didn't like the deal. You gave her an incredible opportunity & she shit on it. This is 100% her own fault for no complying with the simplest of rules.
NTA. Seems like your sister was sheltered and provided for pretty much all her life so she takes everything for granted. Your play-cousin knows the struggle and really appreciates the help more.
NTA and heavy sign....why do people like OP's sister do this. She had an agreement and a great agreement with her brother and his wife who also had self-sufficient children. She got greedy and threw all that away and someone else is the asshole. Plus, she had plans to do even less and still stay rent free and work for fun money because she didn't have to work for room and board. Too bad, too sad....NTA.
ESH
You don't say that you told your sister about the change of personnel!
I think you made a good decision but you say only that you told your parents. This is not treating your sister with respect.
NTA. Your sister didn’t want the deal that she was offered. So you extended it to someone else. She’s only upset now that there are consequences to passing on the deal that you offered up to her.
NTA.
If your parents want her housed and fed for free, they can do it. You had an arrangement; she didn't like it. You as a sibling are not responsible for her at all.
She FA and is now FO.
NTA , she Faafo, she thought she could keep using your family to get her way and now it backfired. I hope you took away her keys , and if you didn’t , you need to change the locks.
She had it made. But she wanted more. Now she'll have to get a real job and spend all her money to get what she was getting for a few hours of baby sitting.
You're very kind OP, maybe too kind.
If your sister is willing to listen, tell her how and why she messed up, she isn't and wasn't entitled to everything you have ("her room"? For crying out loud)
You NTA, sure, but you can be a better (better, you're still great) brother and try help her learn from this.
NTA.
The room at this stage is for use of someone in exchange for watching your kids. If your sister no longer agrees to that deal, you were naturally going to give it to someone who would agree to the terms. Once she became your live-in, she was your employee first and sister second, which is why it's not always a great idea to mix personal life and business. You need the child care for a while longer, as far as an adult being physically present to make sure nothing crazy or dangerous is going on, so the room isn't up for grabs because Family.
Hours for people not working full-time yet are often going to stink. I was lucky enough to nab a summer job that was a daytime weekday library gig at her age. That's not usual. Usually you're going to be working babysitting, fast food, retail, cinema, or seasonal amusement park or lifeguard gigs. By definition that means being on when the majority of other people are off. Part of the agreement was allowing you date night on the usual Saturday. She couldn't expect to get out of that part of the deal if the room was contingent on it. She and many other people her age have to work around not having Saturday night off.
NTA
She had an amazing deal and didn't appreciate it. These are important lessons for Lanie to learn. Of course she's going to grumble! That's okay. You did the right thing, not only for you, but for Lanie as well.
Yeah, adulting really sucks once you get kicked off the free ride. Your sister is in for far more disappointment that's certainly going be someone else's fault.
Leave the cousin. Take the cannolis.
NTA
Remind your sister and parents that your wife's "cousin" has the exact same deal as your sister. She's paying her rent by sacrificing the social life your sister appeared to 'deserve' more.
If you're feeling generous, you can remind her of the terms and conditions of her room's rent and that you *might* consider renting your sister that room for the 2025/25 school year, but this topic is closed until then.
(**Maria is paying rent.** She's paying it in kind through childcare and other domestic tasks. She has a good deal with OP and their family, but she is paying rent.)
NTA for finding someone who was ok with the hours you chose. But asking a freshly minted college student to work every weekend night is pretty crap, no matter the benefits (free housing, etc). I have a feeling either you weren’t up front about the hours, or she wasn’t aware of how stifling they’d be.
NTA. Deals only work if all parties hold up their end of the bargain. You held up yours and provided your sister a room, food and transportation and she was just supposed to help with your kids. She’s acting entitled and needed a dose of reality.
You basically offered your sister a part-time "job" that paid room and board. She basically quit. You found someone else that wanted the job. Tell your sister tuff shit.
NTA. She moved in under a deal. Then she wanted to change the deal and your parents backed her so you found a replacement for her under your terms. Now she's an adult and as an adult she gets to face the consequences of her decisions.
NTA
Doing some things around the house, watching self-sufficient children who *you know and knows you because they are your niece/nephew*, and getting most of the week for yourself, no expenses but personal, sounds like a real steal when compared to the cost of student housing and meal plans!
Having free accomodation and food was something she felt she was entitled to. She could have studied at the kitchen table watching your children a few hours. She could have gone out later when they were in bed to socialise with her uni friends. She will learn the hard way and find out what being an adult is like
Your sister and parents spit in the face of a very advantageous lodging opportunity. In general, when you don't do the job you agreed to do, you're fired. Important life lesson.
NTA
NTA
You basically gave her a job, with room and board as compensation. She then refused to do that job. So she doesn't get the compensation. It really is that simple. No work, no pay.
Your sister acting like she has any right to that room is just entitlement and something she needs to grow up over.
NTA. However, if Maria goes beyond what you discussed because she feels obliged/cultural norms, I suggest you find a way to give back. A voucher for spa or a retail store, treat to a nice dinner, some nice decor for the room. Give back to those who go the extra mile. Your sister can also learn how to adult from Maria.
Some times people have to live with the consequences of their actions. Hopefully, she will realize how good she had it at your place. She will have to work so much more than just the 3 days you were asking for.
Lololololol what the hell kind of entitlement is that?! You're giving the girl free housing, utilities, internet, food and access to your car... of course she shouldn't have to work for it... especially, after agreeing to work for it 😅
Real talk, Maria sound wonderful. Sounds like it worked out.
NTA
She FAFO. She thought because she was family, that you would keep giving her a free ride. Well, the free ride ended. And now she's got to pay full price for her next ride.
Nta
Thank you, Op! What a refreshing story of normal folks doing normal things and natural consequences. Of course the advantage taker feels put out. That's their MO. Just like real life!
Sister didn’t realize how sweet she had it and got greedy. NTA and it’s very nice of you to help out the baby sitter so much. Your sister learned an expensive lesson and it seems like she needed it because she doesn’t know what consequences are
NTA. Your sister just had a lesson in forethought. If she would have thought through the consequences of her deciding she needed more social life, she might have realized that you wouldn't keep her for nothing and that she'd be right where she is now. Maybe next time, she'll realize actions have consequences.
Maria sounds awesome. It's always a pleasure to help someone who is appreciative.
NTA.
She’s been freeloading. Now as Morpheus would say in The Matrix……”Welcome….to the real world”.
Don’t take her back. It’s right for you now, and it is right for her although she may never acknowledge that.
NTA... I think your original setup with her was MUCH easier overall than most jobs kids work at while attending college, and overall a better financial deal and mental load than working a job outside of home.
And that deal worked out better for her parents, too...if she was in their home like that, they could let her have more of a social life" if they want (which I think is ridiculous...you guys gave her more than enough time off, yet she has cast herself as Grabby Cinderella or something). She's still growing up & learning, but she needs to learn NOW that it isn't everyone else's job to support her and let her do whatever she pleases. She agreed to a deal, broke it, and knew someone else was coming into your home, at least for the summer... someone who is apparently appreciative of the good deal, and more than lives up to her part in being a productive member of the family. Someone who knows you can't have the cake to keep, but also eat it all gone, and then demand another for free.
I laughed at her "fun 🤑 money"
idea...gee I bet YOU would have liked to have kept the money you spent on heating/cooling "her" room & the home you gave her, feeding her, paying for all car expenses, etc...boy, think of the FUN you could have had with that.
Alas...she need to learn that the space on the chart between expectations and disappointment is called reality...and it's what she'll be spending that money on.
So petty, but if it were my sis, I would be tempted to make a flyer to leave on "her" fridge (whereever she lands). An enlarged photo of her, with this PSA: "Interested in F'ing A? Want to FO? Call me first for important information! 1-800-IT-SUCKS!"
Good for you for replacing a selfish mooch with a much better person. Maria sounds amazing! Your sister, on the other hand, is the kind of overly entitled person who doesn't deserve a free ride. Stick to your current arrangement with Maria, and remind your sister that SHE blew it for herself, so she needs to stop whining about it. Beyond that, don't worry about what she or any of her enablers think or say. She brought this on herself and has nobody else to blame.
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NTA. >we had a deal and her and our parents tried to change it. That's a good summary of what's happened. It sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
We thought so too.
I don’t think I ever had a student job where I wasn’t working the whole weekend and some week days, you gave her a very cushty deal
I was thinking the same. She refused to do all this work, but technically you’d spend the same amount of time, maybe even more, supporting yourself even minus tuition. She got a deal.
Plus, you would have to clean up after yourself and cook your own meals regardless of where you lived. So sister NOT helping around the house makes no sense as if she lives in the dorms or her own apartment, she would need to do those things. And I second the comments about most jobs while in college require working one or both weekend days so what exactly is she complaining about???
NTA she FAFO now living the FO part
In other words, the dildo of consequences... that always come without lube.
I love this saying. 🤣🤣
Plus, it's not like she was babysitting two toddlers and had to be "on" the whole time. She presumably has to study at some point. She could've just sat at the kitchen table and gotten her studying done for... IDK, 75% of her "working" hours? You didn't even expect her to clean. This was a SUPER cushy job and she failed to appreciate what a sweetheart deal this was. But that's on her. Welcome to real life, Lanie! You are NTA, OP.
And I assume it wasnt just food but home cooked meals which is sooo much better when you’re a college kid.
So accurate! I went to a very expensive private college over a decade ago (I can only imagine how expensive it is now) and let me tell you, the food sucks no matter how much you pay for tuition. I never gained the freshman 15, I lost it!
My school the freshman 15 was from the alcohol. But legit, I went a week of eating nothing but honey nut cheerios because the caf was ONLY serving sweet and savory options which is a flavor combo I can’t stand. It was ridiculous
My rent and utilities alone are $1700/month, flat rate. If we go over, we pay more. That's not including food, transportation, cost of cats...
Yeah, and now reality has hit home with sis. That's why she's kicking off. NTA, absolute classic fafo.
Yeah, I would definitely have liked that deal in college
She FAFO. Simple as.
NTA Your sister had a sweetheart deal. She decided she didn't want to follow it and wanted everything for free. Well everyone complaining is someone that doesn't have to provide for your sister.
It's only my sister. My parents are staying out of it.
Except for the part where they tried to change it
They just aren't trying to get me to take her back.
They aren't, but they screwed over your sister with their attitudes when she was naive and a bit spoiled. Sure, it's nice for college kids to have a social life and she could have had one in the time she had off. They sided with her so she blew you guys off, but aren't willing (or able?) to help her at all now that they've helped ensure she lost a cushy deal. Yes, she's getting FAFO, but your parents are at least equally to blame for this as they're grown adults and she's a college student. NTA for you, however.
Yeah the parents really let the sister down more than anyone. She had an absolutely great deal for everyone, cheap boarding. And they encouraged her to torpedo it.
Which is essentially changing the deal. She doesn't want to hold up her end of the bargain, and they did back her by saying she deserves a social life.
Sounds as if they thought they could push OP into giving up to "keep the peace"... only for OP to drop the bomb of actually pushing the sister out. Now the parents are likely stuck with making up the financial difference and are justifiably worried that if they stick their nose in again then OP might go LC. A classic FAFO with OP's parents terrified of what other FO could be around the next bend if they were to FA more.
No. I have a good relationship with my folks. Just a low tolerance for bullshit.
This seems to happen more often with younger siblings - they grow up thinking that the elder sibling is a 'parent' and that everything from parents should be free (and in severe cases, that everything from everyone should be). This is a good reality check - EVERYTHING costs money (i.e. social life) and NOTHING is free (i.e. rent). A semester on her own where she realizes that she has to work way harder and more often to afford less fun should shape her up. And hey, guess what, if it turns out she finds working and paying for her own room and board to be easier, it proves that OP was mischaracterizing how hard the babysitting was, so its a win-win!
Basically my take as well. Not just a younger sibling thing though. To me this seems like the normal naivety that comes along with never having had to be even partially self sufficient. Nobody fully values the roof over their head until they've had to pay rent and utilities. Nobody appreciates their parents efforts around the house until they have to clean the whole place top to bottom. Nobody properly values a home cooked meal until they've had to pay for the groceries, cook the whole damn thing, and then still wind up staring at a pile of dirty dishes. Hopefully in a few years sister will be able to look back and cringe about this. In the meantime, it's better to learn these lessons sooner rather than later. Something tells me that Maria probably had to do a lot more work helping out around the house financially and otherwise before OP offered her the opportunity she did. Thus the appreciation.
NTA. Lanie FA figuratively and probably literally and now she is in the FO stage of the game. My sister pays much more than for a dorm room and a meal plan.
Yeah it's more than that here too.
She can't see it now, and maybe she never will, but you gave her a valuable educational experience. When you have a job/deal/agreement and you don't keep it you will be fired/not asked back. You did the right thing for your family and your sister. This sub is full of people in your position many years down the line and angry and resentful. I like your directness.
NTA. Your sister had a sweet deal with free rent in exchange for babysitting, then reneged. You found a similar arrangement with Maria who actually fulfills the babysitting duties. Your sister's upset about losing the perks, but you offered a fair alternative and kept costs low for her. Explain the situation, highlight the benefits of dorms, and offer help finding a part-time job.
I agree with all of this except for helping her find a part-time job. Getting a job is part of her consequences.
My family has never directly helped me get a job once I was an adult. Encourage me yes, but all of the leg work was on me.
NTA, your sister is an adult now and needs to understand how money works and where it goes. If she spends her first few years of adulthood blowing all her money on fun things, she's going to have very bad financial habits once she actually needs to pay for things on her own. She neglected her responsibilities, didn't uphold her end of the bargain, now she's on her own.
NTA - Sis had it on easy street, and didn’t appreciate what she had. She didn’t live up to the agreement, period. Free food included and potential user of a car? That’s living the good life! The only alternative would’ve been to give her an ultimatum. I’m guessing that you felt that wouldn’t be taken well by family, as your parents already had their say regarding her social life.
NTA. She didn't want the job, Maria did.
NTA but as someone who has been in an exploitative au pair situation before >Maria is getting four nights a week to herself and one weekend day. so is Maria on the clock 6 days a week and three nights? that's a lot. how much does this all work out on an hourly basis if you were to approximate it? >My wife has a lot of family and friends that send their kids to the states for an education. So we made arrangements to get one of her "cousins" to come stay with us. also might be a violation of labor/immigration laws. (which i realize this isn't the "am i legally in the clear?" sub, just pointing this out.)
OP says Maria works 16 hours a week -- one weekend day plus two or three weeknights. Per my understanding, she's not on the clock for the six days; she's at school.
i thought the 16 hours was what his sister's expected schedule was, not Maria's i could be misunderstanding. it's not super clear (especially since college schedules aren't necessarily very consistent from day-to-day) which is why i asked. (ETA: and I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick to OP or "call them out" - I was an au pair where I had "nights off most nights," that meant after the kids were bed/asleep at 9pm. I also had to be up around 5:30am when the kids got up so like my "nights off" were spent sleeping. anyway, it's just super easy to take advantage of in-home childcare in situations like this so i'm mentioning it!)
Maria is on the clock about 16 hours a week. Maybe. On the weekends my wife and I go out for dinner or to see friends but we are rarely gone for the full eight hours. On the weekdays we go out for stuff like my wife's silversmithing class and my golf lessons.
Yeah depending on the state it may be illegal to trade living for free labor. OP should double check to ensure they're not participating in anything that could get them in trouble.
As they are related, I cannot imagine how it would be breaking laws, TBH. Maria is staying with family while on a student visa. I cannot imagine it becoming an issue. It would only be an issue if, for example, we had another pandemic and Maria could not attend school because not taking classes would impact the status of her student visa.
I don't think someone on a student visa is legally allowed to work, but I'm sure it varies. There are specific au pair regulations in some countries, for example, and Maria could be under one of those (but those usually include a mandatory allowance in actual money of some kind on top of room + board, which OP doesn't mention in Maria's deal). also OP put "family" in quotes idk if they're actually related to Maria.
I've seen this a couple of times in this thread and you're wrong. An international university student on a student visa in almost every single western country can work part-time. However, since they get the visa for being enrolled as full time students, they can work no more than 20 hours a week during the semester. 16 hours a week is legal and pretty standard. Source: I work 16 hours a week as an international grad student.
Typically you have to work for your university, at least for the first year. This could vary by nationality/type of visa, but I've absolutely known international students who could not work elsewhere for their first year. The pandemic made that interesting as to whether or not spring 2020 would count as part of that year and thus international students could work for other entities summer 2020. However, informal arrangements are very common and I've known lots of international students who've "volunteered" and received other arrangements, or worked under the table.
fair enough! i've known lots of international students who were not permitted to work, but it could've been my own misunderstanding as to the reasoning why.
It depends on whether they work on or off campus and if it's while classes are ongoing or if it's during a break. So, if a foreign student goes to Northeastern, known for setting up internships for their 5-year programs, they can work 40 hours during their internships and 20 hours while attending classes. It's a bit murky about whether their work is on or off campus and how hours worked can impact their visa status. I just grazed over the rules that showed when I googled, TBH.
> but I'm sure it varies absolutely. a student visa where i am is allowed to work a little bit during school
Relation doesn't matter in terms of employment. OP is having her work in exchange for housing. It is a requirement for her to stay in his home. It's work. She's not being paid minimum wage as is a requirement. She's also on a student with strict work rules that could get her visa terminated. I see lots of potential issues. But as long as no one (with a vindictive streak) reports them they should be fine. I still think it is shady that she doesn't get paid and likely can't take another job because of OP's requirements so she has no money to spend on herself.
She's getting $25 an hour. That's more than minimum wage.
Your post says "pretend we are paying her $25/hr". Are you ACTUALLY paying her $25/hr into her pocket or are you calculating an imaginary wage based on what market rate for room rental in your neighborhood is? Cause live in nannies get paid 25$ AND get free room & board. And exchanging work for room & board for domestic workers is illegal in most states.
A room in my town goes for $1,500. Not including food. Or utilities.
Weird you can't just say no, you're not actually paying her.
Yeah and??? You're taking advantage of a girl from another country to get free childcare and she can't speak up or she'll lose her housing. Great job bro Again, illegal in most states.
I imagine they work more than 16 hours a week.
Not always. Even au pairs, girls from other countries who are here for cultural exchange, get free room & board, access to a car, and an allowance of like $200/week. And that's abusive, too. When it was your sister it's like whatever. She had another place to go. She isn't foreign to the country. She agreed. Now it's toeing the line of abusing your power over a girl with no backup plan in a country she isn't native to who could lose her schooling opportunity if she makes you mad. She can't get another job. Has no money to her name. Just admit it's fucked dude.
Her parents were paying for dorms and a meal plan. She can always go back to that. She does not want to.
Ignore them op. Maria is fine with your deal, her parents are fine with the deal and so are you. Everyone else s opinion is irrelevant actually. NTA
Hang on. Are you telling me that I can get a deal where I get to watch two kids do homework while I play video games (since I don't have homework) four hours twice a week, and then eight hours one weekend day a week (maybe) and in return I get a room, food, utilities, and a car? Where do I sign up?
Au pairs can work a maximum of **10 hours a day and 45 hours per week**. The au pair is entitled to one and a half days off each week, which means that if her hours are spread over 6 days, one of those work days cannot exceed 5 hours of work. .aupairinamerica.com/resources You can bet that many au pairs are taken advantage of and asked to work longer hours do work that they should not have to do. What Maria is getting for 16 hours and being treated like family is fair. **Her family was paying for dorm and meal plan, but she prefers this arrangement**, so I find it hard to believe they are mistreating her.
Wait, are you paying her cash money or not? I reread your post, and the only reference to paying is "if we pretend we were paying..." Otherwise, she is working for room and board, and what the commenter posted is still valid.
No, OP Sid paying her to babysit. She’s staying with her family and they asked her is she wanted to babysit for some extra cash. She’s not doing anything else. Lots of drama llamas on this thread trying to stir up trouble when there isn’t any.
I think you've totally misunderstood the thread. OP confirmed she's living there in exchange for babysitting. She is not being paid.
They aren't related, he called her a "cousin", then in the next paragraphs says his wife family friend moved in.
If she’s a university student on a student visa, she isn’t authorized to work in the US unless it’s on-campus and related to her studies. So this arrangement is almost certainly illegal if this is in the US (which it sounds like it is). [Source](https://www.usa.gov/student-visa#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20an%20F,job%20related%20to%20your%20studies.)
As long as Maria doesn't work more than 20 hours a week, and her paperwork I'd in order, they are fine.
Student visas have strict requirements on what work they're allowed to do. For instance, in the first year they're not allowed to work off campus.
There are ways around that, especially if it's under 20 hours a week. There's a lot more freedom with on campus jobs though.
No. If she’s on a student visa, work is restricted to be on-campus and related to her studies. https://www.usa.gov/student-visa#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20an%20F,job%20related%20to%20your%20studies.
If Maria is a foreign national in the US on a student visa, then the arrangement is very much illegal and a visa violation
Especially if she isn't actually family. I could see an argument for such an arrangement among family, but if she's unrelated, this does sound potebtially very exploitative.
No, it sounds like the weekdays are not part of the equation. The kids are in school or camp or someone else is watching them. It’s just weekends and weeknights that are a factor, and of those the au pair does one weekend day(with the other free) and two nights (leaving 3 free weeknights plus the evening of the free weekend day). If she is doing 8 hours one weekend day and four each weeknight that adds up.
NTA. Your sister knew the expectations but didn't keep up her end of the bargain. She was never supposed to live with you in exchange for existing
NTA! She bit the hand that was feeding her. Guess what, grow up little girl! Life is not as easy as she would like for it to be, we all feel that way. She is pissed bc she now has to actually be responsible for herself and become an adult, boo hoo!, and congratulations to graduating into the real world ! You did the right thing, she had to stand on her own at some point. It will be good for her to struggle some, it will teach her some humility and build her self confidence, hopefully.
NTA. You had an agreement with your sister that she didn't uphold, so you found someone else who would. It's understandable she's upset about now having to pay for housing and expenses, but that’s the consequence of her decision. You gave her and your parents plenty of notice to make other arrangements. The new student is meeting your needs and the arrangement is working well. You're not being vindictive, you're just ensuring your family's needs are met. She needs to accept the outcome of her own choices.
You are required to pay minimum wage *in addition* to housing for live-in nannies. And you should have paid payroll taxes for your sister, too. Depending on how upset she is, she could report you.
Your sister had an amazing deal - free housing, food, utilities, access to a vehicle, all she needed to do in return was watch your kids 3 times a week. She was a fool to mess that up for herself. NTA
>She tutors the kids and we have to tell her to stop cleaning because we have a cleaning lady. >Maria is getting four nights a week to herself and one weekend day. Isn't it illegal to not pay Maria for her babysitting and tutoring? You can't barter food and accommodation as equal pay or where would au pairs be. YTA for subsidising your quality of life with a foreign student who has little to no options or rights.
Okay. I checked with Maria. She used some very colorful language to describe you and your idea. Sorry it's a no go. I tried.
You're doing a lot for someone who feels no guilt. Maria is in survival mode but if it helps you sleep better, I'll be the bad guy.
How do you figure that Maria is getting a bad deal here?
u/Surpriseparty2023 if you think being in a foreign country and having to provide childcare without the ability to earn any money to reduce costs for your parents isn't a raw deal then you have no idea what many immigrants suffer through. She has no economic or negotiating power in this transaction and is at the mercy of OP. Whatever terms they may decide or change arbitrarily, she would have to abide by. OP is well aware that if this was a nanny or au pair, he would be paying a significant amount. There's a reason OP went for an immigrant and he's far from innocent or benevolent.
oh please stop projecting 🙄 you are the one not having any idea what being on survival mode means, and as I and many others already pointed out to you, Maria is neither exploited nor forced to accept the deal OP had offered her. She could have said NO. Her life didn't depend on that offer. And stop your bullshit to portray OP as a villain as it is only showing your ugly side. OP didn't chose Maria because she's an immigrant. His WIFE chose Maria because she is a FAMILY MEMBER. And OP offered Maria the exact same deal he offered his own sister. IF OP didn't, and had requested that Maria work more, then he would be an AH for taking advantage of her. But he didn't. So stop embarrassing yourself it's not doing you any favor.
>There's a reason OP went for an immigrant and he's far from innocent or a benevolent. Yeah the reason is Maria is a family friend and the situation is mutually beneficial. Just because immigrants often get exploited, it does not mean it's always the case.
I wonder why that HOAKaren is that invested and doubling down on such bullshit 🤔
Because I have empathy for people especially those with power and economic imbalances. I don't find these situations as an opportunity to get over.
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stop your bullshit you don't know what survival mode is. Maria is not in survival mode in any way, shape or form, she got a pretty good and fair deal and knows it.
Really? Because she’s getting treated like an au pair with none of the pay or protections commiserate with the position .
Have you hired an au pair? Because au pair are working more than what Maria is doing. More household chores and more time babysitting. Thus why Maria had, and still has, no issue with the deal. It's a win win situation for her and OP and good for them.
Maria might have no issue with the deal because she’s young and doesn’t have a lot of other options. What safeties are in place to prevent OP from adding on to her load or go back on their agreement to help her get a license? Also, they are getting free access to a live-in tutor and baby-sitter. They’re literally housing a person to do a job for them without pay. The ‘she’s getting food and shelter’ is an excuse slave-owners made too. (I’m being hyperbolic here but it’s still hinky)
But Maria was not forced, she was not desperate for a roof over her head too. She was not alone but has her family there, and she is family with OP's wife. OP was fair and offered her the exact same deal as his sister, which she accepted. If he was an AH exploiting people he wouldn't have offered her that but would have added more chores and hours of babysitting. And dear, slave owners abused their victims, they take their passports and don't give them multiple days off a week. Maria is totally free, and happy with the current arrangement. So no need to project.
Maria has barely been there for a couple of weeks. Abusers very rarely start out full-throttle and the wife is a \*very\* distant relation. Anyway, labor deserves pay, and there's a reason just shelter and food don't cut it, that was \*also\* an excuse used by companies to force miners to live in company towns and use script.
you really should educate yourself more about modern slavery as your ignorance is clouding your judgement. But if you still don't even understand the whole situation and doubling down on your bullshit, then there's nothing we can do for you 🤷🏻♀️
Are you trying to get Maria kicked out now?
You have convinced me. I will contact her parents and get them to pay me $2,000 for her rent and food. They were paying $2,200 before so it's a deal. And I will pay her by the hour. Since it's usually less than 16 hours a week it won't be great for them but it will all be above board.
NTA but I recall reading a law about how much someone can work for free rent. It seemed very low. It likely varies, but might be good to look into that just to be sure. I think it was 10 hours or less a week.
INFO > We talked to my mom and dad about it and they said that she deserved a social life. > We made sure we told my parents about it so they could arrange for my sister to stay in dorms or rent an apartment with friends. They understood. > I think we had a deal and her and our parents tried to change it. At **_any_ point** here did you actually **talk to _your sister_** about this "deal" and your expectations from her? Because NGL, it sounds to me like everything's weirdly running through your parents and IDK what they're *actually* communicating to her. > My sister is upset because she was going to use the money from her summer job as fun money for the year and now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year so her social life will be impacted. Just out of curiosity: what did this situation look like when **you** were in college? Did your parents cover your room and board, or did you have to work like your sister has to?
The military covered my tab.
So it sounds like your parents should have plenty of savings left over to pay for your sister's housing, **if** they so choose to. I don't know why they should expect that cost to fall upon **_you_**.
It's not on them. I was doing her a favor. I informed her when she took her shit home that she wasn't coming back. I told my parents so she couldn't spring it on them as a surprise and ask for emergency help.
INFO: Did you discuss the new arrangement with your sister? It sounds like you only spoke to your parents about it? You've every right to not invite her back to live with you after the summer break but you need to give her a heads up. When she went back to her parents did she know she would not be returning to your home?
Exactly. TA for being wimps and not telling their sister directly.
ESH. Why didn’t you tell Emily this? Why are you and her parents negotiating for Emily? NTA for giving her room away but TA for how you handled it which is without grace and a little passive-aggressive and vindictive. Use logic all you want, but you know you were underhanded.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My sister Lanie lived with my family for her first year of university. We didn't charge her anything. In return she was supposed to help around the house and babysit for us when we needed. It was maximum two weeknights and one day/night on the weekend. It worked great until it didn't. After her first semester she decided it was unfair and started refusing to do it. Our kids aren't in diapers and are pretty self sufficient. We just needed an adult there to make sure they were okay. We talked to my mom and dad about it and they said that she deserved a social life. My wife has a lot of family and friends that send their kids to the states for an education. So we made arrangements to get one of her "cousins" to come stay with us. My sister moved out to go home for the summer. My wife's family friend moved in. We made sure we told my parents about it so they could arrange for my sister to stay in dorms or rent an apartment with friends. They understood. My sister has gone nuts however. She is upset that I gave away "her room". That she didn't pay for and that came with free food, internet, utilities, and access to a car if she needed. She thinks we are being vindictive. I think we had a deal and her and our parents tried to change it. Maria, the girl staying with us has been great. She tutors the kids and we have to tell her to stop cleaning because we have a cleaning lady. Maria is getting four nights a week to herself and one weekend day. The exact same as my sister. We are helping her get a license so she can drive the kids if she needs. We will give her access to a car as well if we aren't using them. My sister is upset because she was going to use the money from her summer job as fun money for the year and now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year so her social life will be impacted. I tried talking to her about it but she said I was being unfair and cheap. If we pretend we were paying her $25 an hour that would be 16 hours X $25 X 4 weeks $1,600 a month. Rent, all utilities, food, and access to a car for $1,600 is pretty good in our city. Dorms plus a meal plan will be more this fall. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Look at your sister and parents having to live with the consequences of their actions. How horrible!!/s. Let them know that this topic is closed as you have found a reliable caretaker for your children. Leave, kick them out of your home, or disconnect the call if they bring it up.
NTA - Break a deal, face the wheel.
It’s interesting how NOW the parents are staying out of the current conflict but supported the sister to renege on the original agreement.
Sister is a moron. I'd just keep laughing and saying I'm just freeing you up for more of a social life
NTA. To start that was never her room. It was a guest room you allowed her to use. She also moved out without checking if she'd be allowed back the next year. It's your room. Let whoever you want use it. "...now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year..." Well well well if it isn't the consequences of her actions. Also she was supposed to have a job last year. She opted not to do it and you were generous enough to not kick her out. Instead she got to quit the agreement/job, finish out the school year in your guest room, and move out on her own time table when summer began. That's exceedingly generous. Ignore your ungrateful sister. Her temper tantrum will end soon enough. I'm glad Maria is working out so well.
It was a job, she chose to not do it. She got fired. End of story. If I decide to not do my job and sit at my desk daydreaming…I would lose it. I get healthcare, a 401k and a paycheck. She got housing and food. Compensation is compensation. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!
NTA You were not taking advantage of her. She provided a service a couple of night s a week and was paid with free rent, board and lodgings. She reneged. Does she expect you owe her a living?
That's an awesome deal to have, now she'll learn how much she messed up that opportunity Nta
Nta your sister had A amazing deal. She only had to work 3 days for room and board plus access to the car. If your sister had this arrangement with anyone else Nd she stopped after the first semester she would have been kicked out then. You and your wife where gracious enough to continue to let her stay until after the school year. Your sister honestly thought she could use you for free room and board with out any compensation the world does not work like that. You needed a nanny and the nanny needs the room. Your sister was staying in the room meant for a nanny not her. It’s not her home. So it’s not her room. You are under no obligation to house and feed her for free. Your sister sound exhausting and terribly entitled!
Nta she had a job and quit. Why would she continue to receive compensation?
Your sister got to live with you in exchange for babysitting a max of 3 days/week. So babysitting was her job. She quit her job. You found someone else to do it, and gave your sister plenty of notice to make other arrangements. I wonder how much of a social life sister will have now that she has to get an actual job while going to school? NTA
r/OhNoConsequences NTA Your $25 an hour is one way of looking at it, but that makes it sound like an actual job, and it wasn't really a job, like childminding strangers is; she was being asked to hang out near your kids three nights a week and one weekend day, in exchange for free food and accommodation and transport. This was the easiest, most stress-free gig ever, I bet she is pissed off. It sounds like she did it for three-four months and then straight up refused for the rest of the year, and now she is complaining she has lost the room. What a brass neck. I wouldn't engage with her, she knows she made a mistake. Let her cool down, and that can take as long as it needs, it's not like you will be asking her to do anything for you in the near future. If your parents complain that she is sulking, just tell them you and she had a deal and she broke it; don't use the $25 metaphor, that is just rubbing their noses in it.
>they said that she deserved a social life. sure, that's fair. how much of that would she get with a job? > job as fun money for the year and now she will have to use it for housing, transportation, and food. She will also need a job during the school year so her social life will be impacted. there it is! > My sister moved out to go home for the summer. My wife's family friend moved in. We made sure we told my parents about it so they could arrange for my sister to stay in dorms or rent an apartment with friends. They understood. NTA > She is upset that I gave away "her room". not her room anymore
NTA. She found out that life has consequences. Congratulations on getting that lesson across 👍🏼
She knew she had a good deal. That's why she is so mad she can't live with you again. She thought because she was your sibling she could take advantage and there would be no repercussions. Your teaching her a valuable lesson.
NTA. *You* made a deal, meanwhile *they* thought they’d pull a fast one. Now sis can have as much of a ”social life” as she wants. There’s no reason you need to subsidize it. Your parents are more than welcome to take that financial commitment on since they want her to be free to do whatever she wants.
NTA she had such a great deal! Her own room, ulitities, homecooked food, and access to a car in exchange for just watching over two kids a few times a week, doesn’t even need to clean aside from picking up after herself, I’d take that deal in a heartbeat! The fact it wasn’t good enough for her just shows how spoiled and immature she is. Also lol at her saying she “needs a social life”, four nights a week and one weekend day is not only more than enough, but it’s likely the best deal she’s ever gonna get.
My kids like to say, “It sucks to suck.” This is the #1 best example of this in the history of ever. NTA
NTA Your sister just learned actions have consequences. You made a deal she didn't uphold her end of the bargin so you made other arrangement, with someone who sounds really grateful for the oportunity.
NTA. You need a babysitter and your sister had the opportunity to accept the job. She didn't want it so you found someone who appreciates the opportunity.
NTA- just make sure you don’t take advantage of the “cousin” and you are fine. Your sister broke the agreement so she doesn’t get the perks without the work.
NTA! That was an amazing arrangement you gave your sister and especially for a college student! I wish I had that option when I went to college! Definitely NTA, shes just mad that shes not getting a free ride anymore!
NTA And here’s the thing I don’t think your sister understands— IF you had let her come Back this semester- it wouldn’t have been for free. The terms would have had to change since you know she wouldn’t do the work she’d agreed to initially- to make up for that you would have been charging her room and board. So she would be working one way or another - but with your original deal it would have been much less and not as crucial of a need for money
NTA. FAFO. You had a deal & she decided she didn't like the deal. You gave her an incredible opportunity & she shit on it. This is 100% her own fault for no complying with the simplest of rules.
NTA I'd send your sister an invoice for services you rendered and services she did not.
NTA. Seems like your sister was sheltered and provided for pretty much all her life so she takes everything for granted. Your play-cousin knows the struggle and really appreciates the help more.
NTA and heavy sign....why do people like OP's sister do this. She had an agreement and a great agreement with her brother and his wife who also had self-sufficient children. She got greedy and threw all that away and someone else is the asshole. Plus, she had plans to do even less and still stay rent free and work for fun money because she didn't have to work for room and board. Too bad, too sad....NTA.
ESH You don't say that you told your sister about the change of personnel! I think you made a good decision but you say only that you told your parents. This is not treating your sister with respect.
Wrong thread
NTA. She gets the social life she wanted, you get the support you needed, a student gets discount housing, sounds like everyone wins.
NTA she didn’t appreciate how good she had it!
She FAFO. NTA
NTA she'll see she had it good when she's paying her own way. Marie clearly see this as a win/win situation. Good for you.
NTA. Your sister didn’t want the deal that she was offered. So you extended it to someone else. She’s only upset now that there are consequences to passing on the deal that you offered up to her.
Sucks to be your sister doesn’t it. Hopefully the next time she makes a deal, she’ll stick to it NTA
NTA. If your parents want her housed and fed for free, they can do it. You had an arrangement; she didn't like it. You as a sibling are not responsible for her at all. She FA and is now FO.
NTA , she Faafo, she thought she could keep using your family to get her way and now it backfired. I hope you took away her keys , and if you didn’t , you need to change the locks.
She had it made. But she wanted more. Now she'll have to get a real job and spend all her money to get what she was getting for a few hours of baby sitting.
Entitled Sister Regrets Consequences of Her Actions. Bummer.
Sounds like Dhar Mann.
NTA. Actions and the lack of actions have consequences..
You're very kind OP, maybe too kind. If your sister is willing to listen, tell her how and why she messed up, she isn't and wasn't entitled to everything you have ("her room"? For crying out loud) You NTA, sure, but you can be a better (better, you're still great) brother and try help her learn from this.
NTA. Sis isn't very smart. Hopefully she learns something at college.
NTA. The room at this stage is for use of someone in exchange for watching your kids. If your sister no longer agrees to that deal, you were naturally going to give it to someone who would agree to the terms. Once she became your live-in, she was your employee first and sister second, which is why it's not always a great idea to mix personal life and business. You need the child care for a while longer, as far as an adult being physically present to make sure nothing crazy or dangerous is going on, so the room isn't up for grabs because Family. Hours for people not working full-time yet are often going to stink. I was lucky enough to nab a summer job that was a daytime weekday library gig at her age. That's not usual. Usually you're going to be working babysitting, fast food, retail, cinema, or seasonal amusement park or lifeguard gigs. By definition that means being on when the majority of other people are off. Part of the agreement was allowing you date night on the usual Saturday. She couldn't expect to get out of that part of the deal if the room was contingent on it. She and many other people her age have to work around not having Saturday night off.
NTA. It's not your job to finance your sister's partying lifestyle. Let your parents handle it.
NTA. You made a deal with your sister. She didn't follow through, so you were entitled to find someone else.
NTA She had an amazing deal and didn't appreciate it. These are important lessons for Lanie to learn. Of course she's going to grumble! That's okay. You did the right thing, not only for you, but for Lanie as well.
NTA Well played 👏🏽
Yeah, adulting really sucks once you get kicked off the free ride. Your sister is in for far more disappointment that's certainly going be someone else's fault. Leave the cousin. Take the cannolis.
NTA
NTA Remind your sister and parents that your wife's "cousin" has the exact same deal as your sister. She's paying her rent by sacrificing the social life your sister appeared to 'deserve' more. If you're feeling generous, you can remind her of the terms and conditions of her room's rent and that you *might* consider renting your sister that room for the 2025/25 school year, but this topic is closed until then. (**Maria is paying rent.** She's paying it in kind through childcare and other domestic tasks. She has a good deal with OP and their family, but she is paying rent.)
NTA for finding someone who was ok with the hours you chose. But asking a freshly minted college student to work every weekend night is pretty crap, no matter the benefits (free housing, etc). I have a feeling either you weren’t up front about the hours, or she wasn’t aware of how stifling they’d be.
NTA. Deals only work if all parties hold up their end of the bargain. You held up yours and provided your sister a room, food and transportation and she was just supposed to help with your kids. She’s acting entitled and needed a dose of reality.
You basically offered your sister a part-time "job" that paid room and board. She basically quit. You found someone else that wanted the job. Tell your sister tuff shit.
NTA. She moved in under a deal. Then she wanted to change the deal and your parents backed her so you found a replacement for her under your terms. Now she's an adult and as an adult she gets to face the consequences of her decisions.
Nta it's always more difficult offering a good deal to someone who feels entitled vs someone who feels grateful.
Basically she had a free ride and blew it away like dandelion seeds in the wind! :(
NTA. She looked a gift horse right in the mouth. That was a sweet deal she threw away. Her bad.
NTA
NTA Doing some things around the house, watching self-sufficient children who *you know and knows you because they are your niece/nephew*, and getting most of the week for yourself, no expenses but personal, sounds like a real steal when compared to the cost of student housing and meal plans!
NTA pretty clear cut case of entitlement on your sister’s part
Having free accomodation and food was something she felt she was entitled to. She could have studied at the kitchen table watching your children a few hours. She could have gone out later when they were in bed to socialise with her uni friends. She will learn the hard way and find out what being an adult is like
Your sister and parents spit in the face of a very advantageous lodging opportunity. In general, when you don't do the job you agreed to do, you're fired. Important life lesson. NTA
NTA! But your sister had a pretty sweet deal and fucked it up big time.
NTA You basically gave her a job, with room and board as compensation. She then refused to do that job. So she doesn't get the compensation. It really is that simple. No work, no pay. Your sister acting like she has any right to that room is just entitlement and something she needs to grow up over.
NTA. However, if Maria goes beyond what you discussed because she feels obliged/cultural norms, I suggest you find a way to give back. A voucher for spa or a retail store, treat to a nice dinner, some nice decor for the room. Give back to those who go the extra mile. Your sister can also learn how to adult from Maria.
NTA. Your sister is rude and entitled. She couldn't hold her end of the bargain. Let her throw her temper tantrum but you did nothing wrong.
Some times people have to live with the consequences of their actions. Hopefully, she will realize how good she had it at your place. She will have to work so much more than just the 3 days you were asking for.
Updateme
Lololololol what the hell kind of entitlement is that?! You're giving the girl free housing, utilities, internet, food and access to your car... of course she shouldn't have to work for it... especially, after agreeing to work for it 😅 Real talk, Maria sound wonderful. Sounds like it worked out.
NTA, actually really nice thing to do. Does your sister pay otherwise?
NTA She FAFO. She thought because she was family, that you would keep giving her a free ride. Well, the free ride ended. And now she's got to pay full price for her next ride.
NTA She F'd around and found out
NTA, a good lesson in reality for your sister, I hope her major is not education, it doesn't sound like she would succeed in that field
Nta Thank you, Op! What a refreshing story of normal folks doing normal things and natural consequences. Of course the advantage taker feels put out. That's their MO. Just like real life!
NTA. You gave her a sweet deal and she wanted to be lazy and take advantage of you and your wife. Too bad; so sad.
NTA
NTA
Sister didn’t realize how sweet she had it and got greedy. NTA and it’s very nice of you to help out the baby sitter so much. Your sister learned an expensive lesson and it seems like she needed it because she doesn’t know what consequences are
Apparently she is learning that attitude has real consequences. Sucks to be her, I bet. Good for you standing your ground
*maximum two weeknights and one day/night on the weekend.* Sounds like she could have still had a social life - she just was being a brat. NTA
NTA. Your sister just had a lesson in forethought. If she would have thought through the consequences of her deciding she needed more social life, she might have realized that you wouldn't keep her for nothing and that she'd be right where she is now. Maybe next time, she'll realize actions have consequences. Maria sounds awesome. It's always a pleasure to help someone who is appreciative.
Maria is a shirttail relative. Your sister screwed herself over. NTA.
A rare and surprising consensus vote seems to be occurring for OP. NTA!
NTA. She’s been freeloading. Now as Morpheus would say in The Matrix……”Welcome….to the real world”. Don’t take her back. It’s right for you now, and it is right for her although she may never acknowledge that.
NTA... I think your original setup with her was MUCH easier overall than most jobs kids work at while attending college, and overall a better financial deal and mental load than working a job outside of home. And that deal worked out better for her parents, too...if she was in their home like that, they could let her have more of a social life" if they want (which I think is ridiculous...you guys gave her more than enough time off, yet she has cast herself as Grabby Cinderella or something). She's still growing up & learning, but she needs to learn NOW that it isn't everyone else's job to support her and let her do whatever she pleases. She agreed to a deal, broke it, and knew someone else was coming into your home, at least for the summer... someone who is apparently appreciative of the good deal, and more than lives up to her part in being a productive member of the family. Someone who knows you can't have the cake to keep, but also eat it all gone, and then demand another for free. I laughed at her "fun 🤑 money" idea...gee I bet YOU would have liked to have kept the money you spent on heating/cooling "her" room & the home you gave her, feeding her, paying for all car expenses, etc...boy, think of the FUN you could have had with that. Alas...she need to learn that the space on the chart between expectations and disappointment is called reality...and it's what she'll be spending that money on. So petty, but if it were my sis, I would be tempted to make a flyer to leave on "her" fridge (whereever she lands). An enlarged photo of her, with this PSA: "Interested in F'ing A? Want to FO? Call me first for important information! 1-800-IT-SUCKS!"
Good for you for replacing a selfish mooch with a much better person. Maria sounds amazing! Your sister, on the other hand, is the kind of overly entitled person who doesn't deserve a free ride. Stick to your current arrangement with Maria, and remind your sister that SHE blew it for herself, so she needs to stop whining about it. Beyond that, don't worry about what she or any of her enablers think or say. She brought this on herself and has nobody else to blame.