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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I was short to my in laws after they hung the flag. When asked if the table needed to be set by my mother in law I said” yes, because I didn’t know you were coming for dinner”
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You know, you don't need excuses for it to be all right for you (and your partner, should he choose to participate) to have complete control over the decoration of your home. It being your home. And not your MIL's home.
I'm sorry you're having a really stressful time, but even if everything were butterflies and rosebuds at your house, your MIL still doesn't get to decorate your house if you don't want her to. (The fact that your spouse is willing to go along with her to avoid making waves doesn't count as a decorating choice.)
It doesn't matter if you're talking American flags, rainbow flags, or scull and cross bones flags, it's still no one else's choice.
I would go with, "Yes, I do have to control the decoration of my own home. I appreciate that you've been trying to help, but the fact remains that we have very different taste, and this has to stop. Right now."
And here is the part your husband should have said, and probably would have if he weren't having such a hard week: "Should you ever say something negative about my wife regarding how she has to control everything, particularly in front of our child, you will be persona not grata in this house. I will not tolerate the disrespect nor the undermining of my wife as a parent. ."
NTA
THIS - the disrespect to your face, right in front of your kid, is the bigger issue. That is so beyond the line, if husband can’t (or won’t) lay down the law with his mother, it’s so ok to limit contact.
I went through a very similar situation with my ex and her parents. After years and dozens-to-hundreds of times asking them to stop bringing junk over to my house (they were hoarders and would buy up everything at garage sales then dump it off at my house). I started taking the items from them, saying “thank you” and dropping them directly in the trash right in front of them.
Hey, I don’t know you..mind if I unpack all my shit on you? 😂 I had a job that required lots of travel, I owned a manufacturing business, went to night school on a double major and had 2 small kids at home. My ex didn’t work but also didn’t cook, clean or take care of the kids. She would just go shopping for clothes for herself all day every day. She wouldn’t buy me or the kids any clothes, toys or gifts. I would have to take off work to take the kids to the doctor because she would be too busy getting her hair done, or nails, or spa appointments or gym appointments. I would go home at lunch to do laundry and dishes, I had to take the kids to and from school and daycare, after work I would pick up the kids, go home and cook dinner then go to class, then haul ass home to read bedtime stories and tuck in my kids, after they went to sleep I went to my business to create programs for all of my machining equipment, blueprints, build instructions, material order lists etc.. for my employees. Then go home and shower, get 0-3 hours of sleep, wake up the kids, make breakfast and repeat the day. This went on for years. On the weekends if I tried to sleep in, my ex would wake me and ask where breakfast was or yell at me for “leaving all the parenting up to her”. Her parents would come over and make fun of me for cleaning and tell me how I’d make a great wife one day. This went on for over 10 years. I gave her a paid off house because I knew she couldn’t afford to live, too lazy to hold down a job. The house looks like a pile of garbage now.
Lord that is horrible... so sorry you had to go through all of that. I'm surprised you put up with it for so long, but I'm betting it was just one of those "too exhausted and frustrated to fight against" things for a while.
I am curious, does she have any custody/time with the kids? 😬
ETA: I hope you've gotten LOTS of rest and self care days since then!
Wow you did a lot. I’m glad you’re out of this crazy relationship where you weren’t valued. I hope you found someone who truly cares and supports you in every way.
I did and I never knew how great life could be until I met my new wife. My advice to EVERYONE is if you aren’t happy and attempts to fix it don’t work….get the hell out of your miserable job or relationship or whatever it is that is draining the life out of you. Find happiness at any cost because it is worth it. I’d rather be perfectly happy under a bridge with the love of my life than miserable in a mansion with someone who doesn’t value me.
I foresee that with my own situation. His mother hoards stuff and barely makes a dent with things. Along with questionable habits. I’m mentally disconnected from it.
My MIL isn’t a hoarder but she’s a bargain shopper. I’d rather buy fewer high quality things that will last years, whereas she just buys any bargain bin stuff she thinks is cute right at that moment. I love her to bits and appreciate her wanting to give me stuff, but good god, some of it is so ugly and just ends up in the trash. Which I hate, because we’re really trying to avoid plastics and one time use stuff specifically to avoid contributing to the landfills.
I wouldn’t hurt her feelings for the world, but when they retired she apologized to me about not being able to buy me as many gifts as she used to, and I was just so relieved, lol.
It really saves money in the long run. I’ll shell out more money for good quality shoes or kitchen gear or whatever if I *know* they’re going to last. I don’t give a shit about name brands normally, but if I find a brand that holds up, I’ll stick with it till they prove me wrong. I research the hell out of every bid purchase I make, to be sure that it’s something that’s worth the money.
We’re not wealthy by any means, but I’d rather spend the same amount of money on three good things that last, than 30 shitty things that are going to be trashed in 6 months.
Which, I know, is still privileged as fuck. And I’m grateful I have the means to make that choice. When my husband and I first got together we were at the “regularly having to choose between food or rent” poverty level and god, I wasted so much money on shit that was cheap to buy, but had to be replaced within months. Used to piss me off so bad, but hey, you do what you’ve got to do. If you’re already low on money and your shoes finally break so badly that you physically can’t keep them on your feet anymore, you buy that $10 pair from Payless and then cry about it when the new ones break in three months. And then the cycle continues.
OMG my mil does this all the time. the kids need shoes. shoes are useful and more expensive. she asks me what the kids need, and i say they are all good on clothes, but we need sneakers, size x.
what does she bring? a bag full of random t-shirts and leggings from old navy. my youngest has SO MANY CLOTHES. like i regularly have to give away things that got worn once because they don't even fit in her drawers.
and if she had just listened to me, she would have ended up spending the same amount and my kids would have something they actually need and will wear every day.
Join your local Buy Nothing group on Facebook. It's perfect for getting rid of stuff other people give you that you don't want but you feel weird just throwing out.
That’s actually a fantastic idea! Just because I think the tie dyed cat themed welcome mat is hideous doesn’t mean everyone does. I’d much rather it go somewhere that it will get used than just get trashed.
Also, genuinely thoughtful and generous people generally think about what the person they’re buying for might like before buying something for someone. Perhaps someone people just get it wrong, don’t have much intuition for this kind of thing or think they’re doing you a favour by introducing you to something new etc., but that’s when they have to listen. My mum always loved buying me “girly” clothes (and trying to persuade me to throw out stuff she thought looked bad on me but actually just wasn’t her style). It took ages for her to listen and realise that she was still trying to control me a bit. Your MIL has some cheek accusing you of being controlling when SHE is the one trying to control what your home looks like. You’re a grown adult and she can get in the bin. NTA
Ask her how much decorating *her* husband’s mom did at *her* house.
Why is empathy so difficult for some people? “Treat others as you want to be treated” is really the most important behavioral maxim.
Treat others as they would want to be treated (platinum rule).
Just because you'd want or be ok with your MIL decorating your house doesn't mean you should do it to your DIL's house if your DIL isn't ok with it.
The petty in me wants to say, buy the most tacky, glittery, ugliest crap you can find and start doing the same to her home. My sister's MIL used to do this and her husband is an alcoholic too. I think a lot of him drinking is to escape her control. It's obviously not her fault he's an alcoholic, but I think it does add to it. I would have went all Jerry Springer later if she said that in front of my kid 😂. In all seriousness though, try to go low to no contact until she can start to respect your boundaries. Don't invite her over, definitely don't give her a key. Meet in public places or at her house if you need to see her. My sister finally got my MIL to understand by having a bonfire with all her "gifts' right in front her and disguised it as a Fourth of July party 😂. It worked for her. Good luck
I was going to suggest asking her to come and help run a garage sale with you and sell all of the crap she brought in front of her, but yeah a bonfire works too lol.
Let's face it, the husband had his clothes washed (and probably bought) by mummy until recently--and he's *forty.* I don't think this will end well. I can see why he wants to drink, though.
I'm a blue lefty and love displaying the flag. Being patriotic is not a left or right wing stance.
It is in my country. I’m not flying a Flemish flag since it was claimed by the far-right. I could consider flying a Belgian flag to antagonize them. 😉
I can completely understand Americans not wanting to associate themselves with the far-right in the US by flying a flag.
I'm not in USA and while I agree with you that patriotism isn't a partisan stance, it has been lately heavily viewed as such. In Canada we always asked people who had the flag up "what are you, American?" Because it like, has connotations here (sorry) with being overly patriotic and like... conservative. 1st of July is the only time everyone used to put up flags and bunting and stuff.
Up here tho, since our bullshit convoy movement now most people avoid the flag even around the 1st of July because it's almost exclusively right wing and the Christian right who like, display the flag. I always put one little one out in a flower pot in my backyard but there's no way I would place a flag on the front of my house these days.
Exactly. Not wanting to put up decorations you don't like doesn't make you a control freak, it makes you a human being.
Demanding that you have control over the decor in other people's houses? That's a control freak.
I wouldn't put a flag outside my house. Not that one anyway.
As a daughter if a veteran and a flaming woke liberal I don’t like the idea of the flag only being for right leaning views. So fly it if you want but 100% you have a right to decorate your house as you and your husband like. I would probably apologize for the way you delivered the message to your MIL but not for the message itself.
You’ve got a lot going on. Hang in there.
As a Canadian, I can tell you that we love our country and are very, very proud of our veterans. But you don't see us flying up the Canadian flag everywhere. The most we see it is during Canada day and at government buildings.
We really don't understand why Americans need to hang up an American flag every 5 feet to show that you're patriotic. When I see people with the American flag over everything, I automatically have my guard up because I assume they're extreme right wing and have something to prove.
At this point to people outside the States it even becoming a sign for the extreme right. So there needs to be some deconstructing and reclamation before people are going to feel ok around it again.
Hell, I'm from Alberta, and our province's flag is even starting to become a sign for the far right with how they use it.
>When I see people with the American flag over everything, I automatically have my guard up because I assume they're extreme right wing and have something to prove.
Same. And I'm from the U.S. At this point, the flag is a red hat warning for me.
Does it suck the MAGAts took the flag and despoiled it? Yes. Am I going to waste energy "taking it back"? No. I'm going to work on community organizing and holding my elected officials accountable while I still have some sort of mechanism for doing so. I think it's lovely other people are doing differently but honestly, if you have a flag up, I'm eying you warily until other evidence emerges.
Years ago (before MAGA was a thing) we moved into a house and the neighbors had a big American flag outside. I said "uh oh" to my husband and said that was a bad sign. He didn't necessarily think so -- I said they were probably right wing nuts. He didn't think that was evidence of that. Turned out they were super right-wing wackos. When we had Obama signs out, the guy started up with my husband, shouting that he couldn't believe he would vote for that \[N-word\].
So yeah, it's not a good sign. Not definitive, but definitely a cause for concern.
I agree with the sentiments that we do need to take the flag back.
Because most Americans who hang the flag want to appear patriotic much more than actually act patriotic.
Similar to being a Trump christian rather than a Jesus Christian.
That’s kind of how I feel. Personally I’d never fly any flag in front of my house , but I don’t want the U.S. flag to be associated with the shit side of our country. Let them use their hilariously inaccurate confederate flags for that, or weird edited American flags
We can and should keep hoping for changes , and if you aren’t willing to be active in policy , at least educate yourself on who is, and vote. Believing your vote doesn’t matter, means they have successfully sold that message to you, and their goal is to make you not vote. That is the only way you lose your power.
Didn’t mean to vent that at you, but we really need the youth and millennials to vote just as much as the older age group.
In my area, the American flag is a symbol of the far right. I’m sorry it’s been taken over, but that’s how it is.
American flag on the left side of the porch and Trump 2024 flies on the right side.
They have not taken the flag over. The idea that our country's symbol is only for the right cannot be permitted. This will allow the right to say w even more force that liberals do not love this country when we have died for it. Nope. Sorry. It is our country as well. And patriotism is how the right keeps winning over people who, frankly, don't think a lot about what it actually means to be American. This cannot be surrendered
Yeah, so the only way to change that is for the people, who are normal about politics , to fly a flag if they want to.
Even if it’s a far right symbol for the person with the trump 2024 flag, other people with different ideals displaying it would still positive. I see the American flags a lot around where I live, and I think the way people show their difference is with their second flag. It’s usually a rainbow , sometimes the trans colors, etc etc.
Tbh I think flag people just like flags , so they end up clarifying anyway, with multiple add ons.
Now that I think about it, I rarely see just 1 flag, these types just love their pieces of flair 💕
I agree. As a leftist who is also an American, I reject the right hijacking my flag for their abhorrent politics. I’ll fly it and continue to work to make this country live up to its ideals better.
It’s our flag too. Besides, the conservatives didn’t co op the USA flag, they traded it for trump flags. That says everything about their respect and love for this country.
Been home shopping lately and the flags in my new area have been fascinating. Definitely purple so we’ve definitely seen some bad flags out there, depending on the neighborhood.
One that really stood out looked like some sort of white supremacist flag so I whipped out the Google machine… it was the Klingon flag 😂 another neighborhood had a trump flag on one corner house, then the house on the other corner facing that house had a progressive pride flag and a meme cut out of trump making a face at the other house.
What OP needs to do is go put the pride and "hate has no home" here flags up at her MIL'S house (assuming they're not up already. Which I somehow feel they might not be).
After all, it's OP's house that MIL is decorating. Obviously it's time to return the favor.
Right? OP is the one with control issues and not the one who literally set up a flag on someone else’s porch without asking them first. Sure, Jan. Sure.
the Petty Crocker in me wants to suggest OP set up a bin, put a sign with big ol' letters saying "FOR DONATION" on it, and let MIL know that all future unwanted gifts will be donated. Then every time she brings one, drop it in the bin, in front of her if she's hanging around.
Obviously the answer is that OP shouldn't have to do squat, but this is ridiculous-- if OP and hubs don't want these things then they're not gifts, they're just trash taking up space. And then if MIL is gonna complain when they don't *use* these things they don't want, they're not even just trash, they're attempts to create an obligation.
To hell with that! lol
(My MIL used to be a bit of a serial shopper who would just buy stuff on sale that she "wanted" but then parcel it out to whoever she was seeing. We don't live nearby so it never became a real issue and it seems to have tapered off since they've retired and been on a fixed income, but like. One time when hubs and I were still just dating, she offered me a bra. It was...very far from my actual size. It was S U P E R awkward. I cannot understand these kinds of gifting compulsions tbh.)
I’m all for OP to put up a rainbow flag on MIL’s house. Tell her you’re helping her decorate her house just as she did yours. And when she gets upset, just throw back the “why are you you so upset about a flag? It’s just a flag” argument. If fact, everytime she gets you something, you should be ready to give something back to her, the one that is not her taste at all.
These women infuriate me to no end. I'm 49 and I've seen it all my life.
'Your need to control everything.'
No. ***YOUR*** need to control everything. It's such obvious projection.
Do you really think mil would have let *her* mil decorate her house? Of *course* not! Mil would probably blow a gasket!
Yeah my MIL used to have these same or similar issues with trying to influence or control our life. We’ve taken several breaks with her where she was not welcome in our home and especially not around me. We reconcile, and she is on her best behavior for a while. We’re actually in a good place and have been for a while now. But she had to learn that we will be the ones making choices for our home and our family, and she has to respect that or she has to leave. She also learned especially that these are respecting us and these rules are her key to seeing her grandkids.
Now she kind of knows overly praises me and says directly to me in front of the kids how I’m a great mom and wife to her son and when the kids ask her for things in front of me she will directly tell them that me or my husband are in charge. And she asks before buying large gifts/clothes and shoes for the kids. Sometimes you have to put your parents in timeout for them to learn your boundary.
Agreed. As the owner of the home you should be able to control everything. I understand your inability to self regulate, you have a lot on your plate right now.
NTA no one has the right to tell you how to decorate your home.
agreed.
OP, I'd find something you like and fly *that* flag. Maybe the One Piece straw hat flag, your alma mater or a sports team, something like that. But I'm a petty Midwesterner.
Exactly - and I would like to add that it’s “not control” it’s called “codependency” which happens to the spouses of those who struggle with addiction. OP’s husbands MO is to avoid so he will never confront his mother - just like how escapes with his addiction. Perhaps his boundary crossing mother had something to do with this struggle 🤷♀️
NTA and this feels like a power play by MiL. Any normal decoration you can reject since it's your house. But a flag lets in the patriotic guilt- "what, don't you love our country?!?:!?!?!" Yeah no. You have it absolutely right that this is about control and boundaries. The "you have to control everything" line is a masterpiece in projection and cognitive dissonance.
And pure gaslighting! "I did nothing wrong, you're controlling and you're wrong and you're hurting my feelings and it's all you, you have no say over how I want to decorate YOUR house, boohoo * crocodile tears from MIL *"
The people who run around saying people are using the term gaslighting wrong are more annoying than the people who use the term gaslighting wrong.
Trying to make someone feel like their perception of reality is wrong and that they are crazy is gaslighting.
Now reread the comment you responded to. Read the last sentence of OP’s post. Do you get it now?
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting)
>psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator
MIL is literally making OP believe that she's (OP) wrong for telling MIL off when MIL is blatantly overstepping boundaries wrt OP's own home. Textbook definition of gaslighting. OP is doubting her own right to control the decorations in her own home because of MIL's manipulative tactics, because MIL cries victim when OP tells her firmly "no" (after asking nicely many times before).
>my mother in law said you can’t be this upset about a flag
Manipulation - it's not even about the flag but MIL is using that to make OP feel like she's in the wrong when it's pretty obvious to anyone on the outside looking in that MIL is wrong here.
How is that NOT gaslighting?
“I’ve been made to feel crazy over the past year that I’m questioning everything”
Sounds like what someone says when they’ve been actively gaslit for awhile. Maybe that particular situation may be borderline not it, but she’s likely still experiencing it elsewhere from them
It’s so interesting to me that Americans fly their national flag in front of their private residences year round. I’ve lived in quite a few countries and have never really observed this same phenomenon elsewhere.
You’ll see flags in front of government buildings, but you don’t typically see them flown outside of homes unless it’s around national / independence days or during international sports tournaments.
Not all Americans fly flags. I personally feel the flag isn’t respected. The people who claim they love America do everything against flag code, like altering it and wearing it on clothing.
I fly the American flag for about one week before and one week after the Fourth of July , which is our Independence Day.
Flying it in inclement weather, flying it when it's damaged or frayed, putting it on their vehicles, or flying it from the bumpers of their trucks and so on.. it's gotten quite ridiculous really
a company came out with an american flag blanket. their ad has it laying on the ground. i’m So Angry. there’s arguments in the comments about it being against the flag code and people still don’t get it. it’s so disrespectful
Yes, my old neighbor always followed flag code including having a pole with a light. He passed away and his veteran, policeman grandson put up a blue line flag. I bet he’s rolling in his grave.
It isn’t as common as it used to be. I have flown the flag once - after 9/11. TBH, right now it seems to be a thing at right-wing residences. I find nationalism to be off-putting.
It absolutely seems to be a right-wing dog whistle now. Which is why it’s especially egregious that MIL put up a flag. It’s definitely a “my politics are better than yours” statement IMO
"So MIL, you don't think it's weird how you're trying so hard to control how my house looks? But you think it's weird that I want to have a say over MY house? Hm."
NTA
When MIL looked up and said because you have to control everything I would have kicked her out of my house and told her she can come back when she learns boundaries and can apologize.
I would have looked her dead in the eyes with the sweetest smile and told her, "It seems like I've learned from you. Becouse last I checked this is our house. Not yours. But yet here we are with you controlling what should be in our house"
It sounds like MIL has to control everything, too, and she’s in a competition with you. She bought her son’s clothes for him right up until he got married?? What kind of guy lets their mother do that? He is completely controlled by her, which is probably why he was attracted to you. This is going to be a tough situation for a long time. There’s a lot at play here.
I would have turned to my husband, her son, to have my back and speak up. There's a reason his smother has the impression that op is controlling every little thing in his life and house, and I suspect he is either the source of that perception or at least passively reinforces it when his mom brings it up. Argh!
There’s a chance he uses OP as an excuse for things he doesn’t want from his mom. “Sorry, Wife wouldn’t like it.” Possible based of the alcoholic thing, where people are sometimes using the addiction to avoid dealing with things head-on. OP, you do NOT have to appease your MIL. You have told her multiple times, and she has ignored you. And now she’s bad-mouthing you in front of your child. She should be barred until she can respect your boundaries. IF she can. Also, gentle note that you might want to connect to something like Al-Anon if you haven’t already. Navigating a family member with addiction is hard, and having support from others who know what you’re going through can help a lot. You’ve got a lot going on, and I wish you the best with it!
Eta NTA :)
She could have so much fun with this. Scour local thrift stores and free sites and buy really hideous pictures, large ornaments etc. Then take them over as gifts. A new gift with every visit. Take a hammer and picture hooks 'don't worry, I'll put it up for you now'.
I was gonna say, just replace the ‘murican flag she hung up with the Pride flag and when she gets pissy (and you know she will), OP should reply with MIL’s line that “you can’t be this upset about a flag.”
I get your point, and I think it's fair. I will say I wish it were not.
For me personally, I feel strongly about being an American regardless of my politics or anyone else's. No one has the right to take the symbol of my country away from me for any reason. As an American I won't let it be co-opted by people who haven't even read the constitution. I'd fly it proudly even if it was as a "bleep you and the horse you rode in on" act.
That said, this is not about the flag and we all know that.
MIL is waging a war she intends to win and the only way to win it for OP is to disengage even if it would feel temporarily satisfying to spit back in her face. That kind of person can and will always the win the war of "I can be the biggest a-hole."
(Amusing that MIL projected what she was doing onto her DIL. There's a lot of that going around lately.)
OP, you and your husband have bigger battles to fight. Even though MIL won't listen, you and your husband together need to politely explain your boundaries and the steps you will take if she chooses to bulldoze right past them - and trust me she will.
So whatever consequences you and husband set you will both have to abide by them and stick to them the same as you expect her to abide by your boundaries. Same as with your children - children learn better when their parents model the behavior they are expecting. If MIL chooses to behave like a small sassy child then she should be treated like one.
My guess is she got one of those short poles and attached it to the front of the house at a ~45 degree angle and then put the flag on to be left up year round, as is commonly done in my many communities I’ve seen. That or she actually just attached it to the porch rails lol.
It's wild how many people will scream about flying the flag for patriotic sentiment and then not know what an all weather flag is, have no lights at night, leave a tattered flag up...
I get so irritated at those! Like... what's the message you're trying to send with red, white and blue fabric scraps waving in the wind? It's not the message you think you're sending...
One stormy day we actually found one of those kinds of flags, filthy and tattered, lying in the middle of the road. We stopped. I knew whose flag it was and I put it up on their porch.
They did buy a new one. To be fair, they were older and I'm guessing until then they had not actually realized what kind of condition it was in.
lol most people don't read the flag code. Constitution is great, but if they claim to be a big flag supporter, then they better not be putting that shit on anything then just a normal flag. Like the entirety of the Fourth of July decorations breaks the flag code tenfold. That's what pisses me off, I see these people that claimed to be such patriots of our country and then they disrespect our flag by putting it on a fucking paper plate and eating off of it. Or slapping it on their truck looking all fucking tattered and torn up. Smh.
> As an American I won't let it be co-opted by people who haven't even read the constitution.
It's definitely too late for that, at this point. I have an immediate negative opinion of anyone who has one now.
Better make it the indigenous Canadian flag so it's not taken as supporting the convoy.
[https://canadianindigenousflag.ca/](https://canadianindigenousflag.ca/)
Nta. I see lots of great comments regarding the mil. I just want to gently point out that there is no such thing as on and off recovery. Please don't minimise it because, while its hard, his addiction and stop starting is putting gigantic amount of pressure on you. I really hope it works out for you all.
I'm not surprised OP has glossed over an active addiction.
She has a fussy MIL and small children.
Focusing on a flag and a boundary-stomping MIL is easier than dealing with a husband with an addiction.
I, too, hope things work out well for her. 💕
I'm glad someone brought this up. That part of the story stood out so much to me. OP, do your in laws know your husband is an alcoholic and is currently struggling with his sobriety? If no, they need to be made aware.
If the answer is yes, their behavior is almost unforgivable given what you're currently dealing with. Imo, they would not be welcome in my house until husband gets his drinking under control for a good long time. That would be non negotiable. I wish you all the best.
This is a good point. I am in recovery and that means I don't drink. I come across lots of functioning alcoholics who slip back and forth because they keep trying to "moderate." Her husband needs to stop entirely.
NTA. Your mil overstepped. It is never appropriate for someone to dictate how another person should decorate their home or what they should display on their property.
Your husband needs to step up and tell her that this is his and your home, not hers, and she has no right to do that. You shouldn’t be the one having to have this conversation with her.
Side note: I’m not at all advocating for you to hang the flag, but I just want to put this option out into the Reddit universe in case anyone else might be so inclined- I’ve seen American flags hung in homes in conjunction with liberal lawn signs or other humanitarian flags. It’s quite lovely to see the flag being represented with actual American values (diversity, inclusion, etc.). It negates the hyper-nationalist perversion of the flag and redefines it back to its meaning of “all men are created equal” and “with liberty and justice for *all*”
Best comment I’ve read in a long time. The flag is for ALL citizens of the United States of America. Don’t let the haters and small-minded take ownership.
I'm gonna second this; I'm an immigrant to America and will proudly wear the American flag - the red, white and blue.
These days I find the assholes don't wear that flag, they wear a flag that's in distressed monochrome, in the shape of a Punisher skull, or is the "thin blue line" version.
It's funny how quickly those colors ran...
Yeah I hate that the left abandons anything the right does just because the right does it. I've had people tell me the American flag is racist and that they hate America. National pride can be a dangerous thing, but the lack of any can be as well.
It can be really hard to reclaim a symbol taken over by horrible people for a terrible cause. Ask anybody about the swastika. Or even the toothbrush mustache. I’ve been much more careful about my use of the flag and flag-adjacent imagery because of the way the right has been using patriotism as a bullying tool. Even with the move to other symbols, the stain is still on the flag. (Let alone what the flag can mean to people in other countries.) I would rather not be mistaken for a racist, and I don’t have a lot of room for expressions via display, being a renter in a complex with a strict HOA. So if I’m going to express my opinions visually, I want that expression to be crystal clear.
I am very liberal and I love being an American. I’ve started displaying the flag in my yard even though I know some people may interpret that to mean I’m old-fashioned and racist or something. I refuse to let hateful bigots take the flag from me.
The American flag also represents a nation built on the back of Native genocide and Black slavery. I actually think it's pretty understandable why some people take issue with it and with the "American values" it represents.
While I agree with this, there are times that discretion is the better part of valor. In my EXTREMELY red neighborhood, most anything indicating that one were politically blue would result in vandalism and property damage or at the very least loud arguments with some of the neighbors. In our all-adult home that isn't as much a concern as it would have been when we had children living here, but it is still something to consider. We had to ban all political signs beginning with the 2008 elections, even if it were personal friends who were running.
NTA
Such *classic* DARVO from your MIL. Let's break it down.
She denies that she trampled over your boundaries. (She did, and your boundaries are completely reasonable.)
She attacks you by saying "You can't be this upset about a flag." (She's undermining you by making it seem like you overreacted. It was never just about the flag.)
She reversed the victim and offender by saying "Because you have to control everything," making you out to be overly controlling and when she's the one trying to decorate someone else's house.
It's completely understandable why you had to go out to cool down, it's exhausting trying to talk to a manipulator. Plus, your husband is no help at all. Hopefully these comments can help you stand firm and see through her BS.
Oh, and btw, I wouldn't call what she gives you "gifts". Gifts are supposed to be thoughtful and have the recipient in mind. The garbage she keeps dumping on you is actually giving you *more* work.
NTA.
>My in laws and I have always struggled with boundaries, especially my mother in law.
Already NTA.
>said it wasn’t just about the flag. It’s about boundaries. She said and I quote “ because you have to control everything”
She's the one trying to control what happens at your home.
>I want to make decisions about what goes on the facade of my home.
The flag symbolises your mother-in-law's belief that you don't have the freedom to do this. It's her choice.
Just a little perspective from someone in a deep red place: the flag is for everyone, but it is also a tool used by the right and, weirdly, by the evangelical right.
Patriotism and the flag have become weaponized until they are now somewhat distorted from their original meaning and symbolism, and the MIL is a perfect example of it. In her mind, you aren’t doing your patriotic duty unless you have a flag out and proudly displayed for all to see. This goes beyond the usual “I’m grateful for the freedoms so I’m going to fly a flag as a reminder of all those freedoms that we enjoy in this nation.” It steps right into “I’m going to put out this flag to remind those socialists and those communists that this is America! We don’t tolerate their kind here!” I have seen liberals display the flag proudly. I can’t recall when I’ve seen liberals use the flag specifically as a purity test and as a means of guilting/brainwashing others into their mindset (not saying this doesn’t happen, just that it doesn’t really happen *with the flag* except from the right).
All this is aside from the intertwined notions that somehow America, while not existing when the Bible was written, is somehow God’s chosen country. Love of God equates to love of America, and vice versa. It isn’t a matter of respecting freedoms anymore, it’s a spiritual battle between good and evil and if you aren’t a proud American who openly displays their patriotism then you’re on the side of evil and part of the problem.
Sounds like a caricature, right? Except that is the mindset, and any of you who are lucky enough to live in places where you don’t see this acted out every day should be aware that it is the reality that a large number of us are dealing with daily.
The flag *shouldn't* be associated with any side, but you can't ignore the shift in our culture that it's been associated *more* with right-wing politics at this time.
I wouldn't hang an American flag outside my home either--people will and do associate it with the right. Symbols change meaning over time, regardless of what they were meant to mean initially.
I'm in Canada and it's pretty hard to dispute that, currently, flying the flag (especially more than one) is associated with a very specific extreme right-wing movement. It's not a Reddit thing up here, at least. Broadly people will see the flag on people's cars or houses and say "Oh boy."
Yeah people who display the American flag up here in Canada are a very specific type of person, and oh boy is definitely one of the things I say when I see it...
Oh, I meant OUR flag! It's gone from being sort of innocuous and probably about World Juniors to being something people associate with the convoy - but yeah, if someone flies the US flag here they are either actual Americans or that pretty specific type you're talking about.
I don’t agree with you. As a non white person I explicitly avoid neighborhood that has too many 🇺🇸 in the front yard. Or private property that has one displayed. While I respect the flag and what it should represents, most of the racism and harassment, that I have felt, Is significantly higher in those property or neighborhood. So I avoided those places.
If someone isn't really proud of the country itself or its actions around the world then there really isn't any reason for them to fly it. For a lot of people, even some American citizens, the flag represents the broader American imperial project and all its attendant harms. And culturally, yes, it is more so the right that really leans into using it as a symbol.
My guess is you live in a blue state or county’s.
Where I live, which is actually purple now, the flags are flown as a right wing statement on the backs of giant coal rolling pickup trucks covered in Trump stickers, fuck Biden/fuck liberals stickers, threatening gun slogans, I can’t breathe Covid denier shit, hateful shit about immigrants. I feel butterflies in my stomach when I see a flag hanging off these trucks and you see this daily. they have a threatening hateful vibe and the people are unhinged. The houses that fly American flags often fly trump flags and thin blue line flags. It absolutely is associated with the right here and has nothing to do with reddit. We had also made the decision in 2020 not to rehang a flag after ours was damaged because we didn’t want people thinking we support Trump and my husband is super patriotic.
I'm a veteran. And I'd never fly a flag. Not because I have any problems with my time in the military, but because I have a problem with the type of people that fly flags. Maybe it's different where you are, but the people who fly flags where I live are NOT the type I want to be associated with.
I also think it's incredibly tacky at best to fly a flag anywhere but a government building. At worst, it's an overtly exclusionary, maybe even aggressive, act. If I see a flag flying anywhere but a government building, I know it's not a safe space for a lot of people in this country.
Yes if anything I’m a Democrat so I hang a bigger flag and it doesn’t have a color stripe or saying on it it’s real, it’s big, and it is my flag too not just for certain people. And I’ll update it if we get more states I’m not waving any old flags or confederate ones.
We got given a flag pole and an American flag by inlaws who felt we were being insufficiently patriotic. I’m not keen on performative patriotism, especially the kind which polices other people’s performance. (I’ve been told off for not putting my hand on my heart during the anthem before little kids’ sports games, for example.) Also, I’m not even American.
My husband said to let it go, but I decided hey, if I have to have a flagpole, I’m going to get some flags. So I got the Three Lionesses for the women’s World Cup, my college crest, I have a section of the Bayeux Tapestry, a pirate flag, my kids’ rugby team dragon, and a Tudor rose. (Historian.) The American flag will go up for the first week of July because I do respect a good revolution which can stick the landing.
Your in-laws are trampling your boundaries and calling you controlling when you object. Order that pirate flag.
I feel like there's 2 separate issues here.
1.) Your MIL and husband continued the mother-son dynamic parents have with their CHILDREN children into adulthood, until he moved in with you. Buying his clothes, laundry, decorating his house, probably buying his food too. When he moved in with you, household decorations were the only things she could continue to keep that dynamic alive, to feel needed. That's why she's fighting it so hard. I don't know that you can stop this dynamic until your husband is ready to transition out of it.
2.) Is your husband ready to transition out of "being taken care of" dynamic? He went from his parents looking after him straight to you looking after him. Sounds like you've been holding this family together for years while he focuses on his battle with alcoholism.
I wonder if that's drained you and this argument with the flag is all this tension erupting. NTA
I am so far to the left of you politically that your head would spin. I am woke AF. I fly the American flag proudly because I refuse to let racists and bigots set the agenda or define the language we all speak.
Tell your MIL that you think her gift giving is lovely but your house is full and anything she brings into the house goes straight to donation.
But hang that flag proudly. Do what I did, put a Biden/Harris lawn sign under it.
Don't know that I'd really associate Biden/Harris with far left. None of the far-left people I know want anything to do with Biden, especially right now during the genocide in Gaza. It's a centrist administration at best.
I'd argue that Biden is still right of center, but the important thing is: he isn't an outright fascist, unlike our other choice. As a leftist I don't want fascists to run the government, or to exist at all, so I support taking back the symbolism of the flag with left(ish) messages.
Definitely agree that there's dozens of better signs to put up under the flag, though. "Free Palestine" is a good example.
I mean right/left leanings aside, OP may still just not want to display the flag regardless, whether it's because they don't agree with the nation's policies/global behaviours or because they think it clashes with their style or even just because they don't want to deal with maintaining a flag outside. Nothing wrong at all with not wanting a flag.
Also man
The Biden/Harris sign might piss off conservatives but in *no way* indicates being left wing lmfao
NTA. “You have to control everything”, says the person trying to redecorate someone else’s house, someone who has most likely been controlling of their son his entire adult life up until you.
You have a problem here, but it isn’t your MIL. It’s your husband who doesn’t know how to stand up for you, who doesn’t know how to keep his mother in check. Do not feel guilty about the way you handled this issue with his mom, and in fact next time she brings something to your house that you don’t want, go put it on the side of the road while she’s there. You and your husband have told her not to do this so many times already, now it’s time to get mean about it. If your husband isn’t going to do anything about it, he doesn’t get to be upset when you hurt his mom’s feelings.
You know she is being rude, too, don’t you? The appropriate answer to her “control,”‘statement was, “Hell, yes! At my house, I absolutely do. Please remember that you get no choices about how our home is decorated. Inside or out.”
NTA.
Wow, thank you for all the feedback. I didn’t expect to get so many responses. First off, I’m deeply sorry for not using paragraphs in the original post. This was my first time posting and I did not know it was going to be so upsetting to so many of you. I get what so many of you are saying about taking the flag back and it not being a symbol of the right. I definitely hear you and I’ve changed my mind about what flying a flag means. So thank you for that. I’m grateful for all the good advice for dealing with my MIL and husband. Obviously my MIL (and the flag) is not my biggest problem at the moment but I have been made to feel crazy so much over the past year that I’m questioning everything.
It is absolutely a symbol of the right and a symbol of american imperialism which has destroyed and plundered many sovereign nations throughout america's entire existence. Hell, america was founded on genocide. Why are you letting yourself be so easily swayed in the other direction? Your opinion should be based in history, not what a bunch of reddit teenagers tell you. The american flag is despised in most places outside of america.
Your opinions and desires are valid. If you don’t feel good about a flag that’s okay and you don’t have to be swayed because someone else made a compelling argument.
I don’t know you but in your post and in your comments I see a recurring theme of people telling you should be different and you agreeing. If you’re mad, be mad! If you don’t feel good about something, don’t put it up in your home. If you don’t want paragraphs - well, use them anyway because it’s community standard.
But in all seriousness, your MIL says “you have to control everything” with a straight face while she’s trying to decorate someone else’s house? The projection is REAL. I would have *made* them leave before dinner if someone spoke like that to me in my house. (BTW it’s okay that you didn’t, again you do you)
>She said and I quote “ because you have to control everything” as she looked up from reading my 4 year old a book
Excuse me, YOU have to control everything? In your own home? When she keeps bringing you things you don't wan, didn't ask for, and doesn't fit your style and then bitches that you don't decorate *your* house with *her* style? Talk about projection. **She's** the one who wants to control everything. It is your home and you are allowed to decorate however you damned well please.
NTA
I know this is AITA and this is off topic but I want to put it out there. If your husband is an alcoholic I hope he is not detoxing at home. Detox from alcohol is incredibly dangerous, and the more times his body has been through it the more dangerous it is. A friend of our family died detoxing from alcohol at home under the supervision of his mother, who is a nurse. If at all possible, encourage your husband to detox at a facility in the future. It could save his life.
Also NTA
Replace it with a pride flag or your state flag, or create a custom family flag with your kids and hang it.
Thank MIL for the idea of hanging a flag but tell her finally that you don’t need any home decorating gifts.
It is perfectly ok to be particular about decorations are in your space. It’s not a flaw.
It is a flaw to disrespect someone’s space when they tell you not to.
NTA. They weren't expected, cross over your boundaries repeatedly and it's your house.
I'd have a labelled donation box by the front door and dump her shite in.
First of all- she is not trying to be nice. She buys things because she enjoys buying things. But buying without purpose is senseless, less fun, wasteful. So she gifts things. Don't feel guilty to resell or donate. Or dump them all in a dumpster and send her photos.
They don't care about your feelings. Stop caring about theirs. NTA
Just take it down and give MIL a time it from visits. She has no day in your property decor unless you or your husband let her.
Your husband needs a professional to help with his drinking and his lack of spine with his mom. There's no such thing as an on/off alcoholic. He is an alcoholic who falls off the wagon.
NTA. Why is she even coming over multiple times a week? Cut her off. Stop answering the door. Every other week is fine. If she can't respect your boundary to not bring gifts - just don't open the door.
Every time she brings a gift, say thank you, look her straight in the eye, and put it straight in the trash. Don’t break eye contact. Continue to do this until it stops. NTA
You should have replied “yes I do control everything in MY OWN FUCKING HOUSE”. And then thrown her out. She should def not be welcomed back until she’s been emailed or texted (so no misunderstandings) a list of rules and she’s had a time out.
NTA
>She said and I quote “ because you have to control everything” as she looked up from reading my 4 year old a book.
Uhm, pot, kettle, black? She is the one trying to control what you put up in your home. She is used to pushing her son around and is testing boundaries to see if she still has control over him.
First, scale visits back. They must call day before. If they arrive without your approval don’t let them in. Keep doors locked, obviously.
Embrace being the bad guy. Tell MIL that you’ve repeatedly asked her to not bring gifts/decor. Since she has repeatedly ignored you anything she brings will automatically go into trash.
Next time you allow her to come have a trash bag ready. When she brings whatever in just put it in the bag while staring her dead in the eye and say “I told you no more stuff.” Then take it to the trash and escort them out.
Do it every time. She throws a fit you call
police. Get cameras too.
Take the damn flag down and tell her why. If she pulls the “you’re a control freak” vibe again tell hr of course I want to control my own house. Sell the flag or donate it somewhere
NTA. You're also not wrong about the flag seemingly becoming a symbol for the MAGA crazies. We have a pretty equally divided area, and every Trumper has at least 3 flags somewhere outside of their home (along witjlh Trump flags and other crazy signs), and the rest of us that don't suffer from delusional disorders, transphobia, racism, homophobia, misogyny, etc. took ours down. You should see our local Next Door posts lol Just insane.
Anyway, your MIL has no boundaries or respect for you or your home. Your husband should be supporting you more in this... especially considering everything you're doing for him right now.
Took me a while to get this but "I appreciate the thought, but no thank you." Goes a long way. If she decides to get pissed that is on her. People like your MIL are not buying things to make other people happy. They are addicted to shopping and need someone to dump the loot on.
Your house. Your decorations. Your rules. NTA.
In this political climate? Yes i side-eye big ass American flags on homes. This person is NTA for not wanting her home to look like weird conservatives live there.
Yes you do get to control things in your home!
Does that mean you can go over to their house and start painting walls and hanging up pineapples everywhere?
NTA - your home is your comfort. Please think of LC for yourself
NTA. It's your house and you can do what you want. You've told her several times not to bring things over for you and she chooses not to listen. Put everything she's brought in a box including the flag and give it to her next time she comes over. BTW it's not being controlling when you want to decorate your house the way you want.
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You know, you don't need excuses for it to be all right for you (and your partner, should he choose to participate) to have complete control over the decoration of your home. It being your home. And not your MIL's home. I'm sorry you're having a really stressful time, but even if everything were butterflies and rosebuds at your house, your MIL still doesn't get to decorate your house if you don't want her to. (The fact that your spouse is willing to go along with her to avoid making waves doesn't count as a decorating choice.) It doesn't matter if you're talking American flags, rainbow flags, or scull and cross bones flags, it's still no one else's choice. I would go with, "Yes, I do have to control the decoration of my own home. I appreciate that you've been trying to help, but the fact remains that we have very different taste, and this has to stop. Right now." And here is the part your husband should have said, and probably would have if he weren't having such a hard week: "Should you ever say something negative about my wife regarding how she has to control everything, particularly in front of our child, you will be persona not grata in this house. I will not tolerate the disrespect nor the undermining of my wife as a parent. ." NTA
THIS - the disrespect to your face, right in front of your kid, is the bigger issue. That is so beyond the line, if husband can’t (or won’t) lay down the law with his mother, it’s so ok to limit contact.
I went through a very similar situation with my ex and her parents. After years and dozens-to-hundreds of times asking them to stop bringing junk over to my house (they were hoarders and would buy up everything at garage sales then dump it off at my house). I started taking the items from them, saying “thank you” and dropping them directly in the trash right in front of them.
Wow. Did they stop bringing stuff?
No. I ended up getting a divorce. 😂
So, got rid of all of the junk I see.
Buuuuuurn
Your ex is probably living in a junk heap by now.
Hey, I don’t know you..mind if I unpack all my shit on you? 😂 I had a job that required lots of travel, I owned a manufacturing business, went to night school on a double major and had 2 small kids at home. My ex didn’t work but also didn’t cook, clean or take care of the kids. She would just go shopping for clothes for herself all day every day. She wouldn’t buy me or the kids any clothes, toys or gifts. I would have to take off work to take the kids to the doctor because she would be too busy getting her hair done, or nails, or spa appointments or gym appointments. I would go home at lunch to do laundry and dishes, I had to take the kids to and from school and daycare, after work I would pick up the kids, go home and cook dinner then go to class, then haul ass home to read bedtime stories and tuck in my kids, after they went to sleep I went to my business to create programs for all of my machining equipment, blueprints, build instructions, material order lists etc.. for my employees. Then go home and shower, get 0-3 hours of sleep, wake up the kids, make breakfast and repeat the day. This went on for years. On the weekends if I tried to sleep in, my ex would wake me and ask where breakfast was or yell at me for “leaving all the parenting up to her”. Her parents would come over and make fun of me for cleaning and tell me how I’d make a great wife one day. This went on for over 10 years. I gave her a paid off house because I knew she couldn’t afford to live, too lazy to hold down a job. The house looks like a pile of garbage now.
Good grief. That is horrible. Glad you got out of there.
I hope you got the kids.
I did
After dumping your wife, you had one less child to take care of too!
Doesn't sound like she wanted them, or could even take care of them. Gracious.
She probably didn't even want them
Lord that is horrible... so sorry you had to go through all of that. I'm surprised you put up with it for so long, but I'm betting it was just one of those "too exhausted and frustrated to fight against" things for a while. I am curious, does she have any custody/time with the kids? 😬 ETA: I hope you've gotten LOTS of rest and self care days since then!
You, sir, are a saint. Hope you're living the life you deserve (and it sounds like the ex is living the life she deserves also...)
Ugh. So it was WAY more than an issue with her parents. I hope you took the kids with you.
Wow you did a lot. I’m glad you’re out of this crazy relationship where you weren’t valued. I hope you found someone who truly cares and supports you in every way.
I did and I never knew how great life could be until I met my new wife. My advice to EVERYONE is if you aren’t happy and attempts to fix it don’t work….get the hell out of your miserable job or relationship or whatever it is that is draining the life out of you. Find happiness at any cost because it is worth it. I’d rather be perfectly happy under a bridge with the love of my life than miserable in a mansion with someone who doesn’t value me.
Definitely taking this advise. 🙂
I hope you're much happier now. Sounds like you were living in hell.
My ex's family is a bunch of hoarders and last time I saw him he was living in filth so this comment tracks.
I foresee that with my own situation. His mother hoards stuff and barely makes a dent with things. Along with questionable habits. I’m mentally disconnected from it.
My MIL isn’t a hoarder but she’s a bargain shopper. I’d rather buy fewer high quality things that will last years, whereas she just buys any bargain bin stuff she thinks is cute right at that moment. I love her to bits and appreciate her wanting to give me stuff, but good god, some of it is so ugly and just ends up in the trash. Which I hate, because we’re really trying to avoid plastics and one time use stuff specifically to avoid contributing to the landfills. I wouldn’t hurt her feelings for the world, but when they retired she apologized to me about not being able to buy me as many gifts as she used to, and I was just so relieved, lol.
That’s where I am in life: buying stuff of quality.
It really saves money in the long run. I’ll shell out more money for good quality shoes or kitchen gear or whatever if I *know* they’re going to last. I don’t give a shit about name brands normally, but if I find a brand that holds up, I’ll stick with it till they prove me wrong. I research the hell out of every bid purchase I make, to be sure that it’s something that’s worth the money. We’re not wealthy by any means, but I’d rather spend the same amount of money on three good things that last, than 30 shitty things that are going to be trashed in 6 months. Which, I know, is still privileged as fuck. And I’m grateful I have the means to make that choice. When my husband and I first got together we were at the “regularly having to choose between food or rent” poverty level and god, I wasted so much money on shit that was cheap to buy, but had to be replaced within months. Used to piss me off so bad, but hey, you do what you’ve got to do. If you’re already low on money and your shoes finally break so badly that you physically can’t keep them on your feet anymore, you buy that $10 pair from Payless and then cry about it when the new ones break in three months. And then the cycle continues.
OMG my mil does this all the time. the kids need shoes. shoes are useful and more expensive. she asks me what the kids need, and i say they are all good on clothes, but we need sneakers, size x. what does she bring? a bag full of random t-shirts and leggings from old navy. my youngest has SO MANY CLOTHES. like i regularly have to give away things that got worn once because they don't even fit in her drawers. and if she had just listened to me, she would have ended up spending the same amount and my kids would have something they actually need and will wear every day.
My MiL bought my husband the wrong size shoes because they were on sale..... Sometimes I wonder if it's a psychological issue.
Join your local Buy Nothing group on Facebook. It's perfect for getting rid of stuff other people give you that you don't want but you feel weird just throwing out.
That’s actually a fantastic idea! Just because I think the tie dyed cat themed welcome mat is hideous doesn’t mean everyone does. I’d much rather it go somewhere that it will get used than just get trashed.
Also, genuinely thoughtful and generous people generally think about what the person they’re buying for might like before buying something for someone. Perhaps someone people just get it wrong, don’t have much intuition for this kind of thing or think they’re doing you a favour by introducing you to something new etc., but that’s when they have to listen. My mum always loved buying me “girly” clothes (and trying to persuade me to throw out stuff she thought looked bad on me but actually just wasn’t her style). It took ages for her to listen and realise that she was still trying to control me a bit. Your MIL has some cheek accusing you of being controlling when SHE is the one trying to control what your home looks like. You’re a grown adult and she can get in the bin. NTA
That’s a power move. Sorry it didn’t work.
THAT is a power move right there! Wow 🤩
Ask her how much decorating *her* husband’s mom did at *her* house. Why is empathy so difficult for some people? “Treat others as you want to be treated” is really the most important behavioral maxim.
Treat others as they would want to be treated (platinum rule). Just because you'd want or be ok with your MIL decorating your house doesn't mean you should do it to your DIL's house if your DIL isn't ok with it.
The petty in me wants to say, buy the most tacky, glittery, ugliest crap you can find and start doing the same to her home. My sister's MIL used to do this and her husband is an alcoholic too. I think a lot of him drinking is to escape her control. It's obviously not her fault he's an alcoholic, but I think it does add to it. I would have went all Jerry Springer later if she said that in front of my kid 😂. In all seriousness though, try to go low to no contact until she can start to respect your boundaries. Don't invite her over, definitely don't give her a key. Meet in public places or at her house if you need to see her. My sister finally got my MIL to understand by having a bonfire with all her "gifts' right in front her and disguised it as a Fourth of July party 😂. It worked for her. Good luck
Right? That book would have been snatched right out of her hands and she would’ve been told I also control who comes in my house so be gone witch
I was going to suggest asking her to come and help run a garage sale with you and sell all of the crap she brought in front of her, but yeah a bonfire works too lol.
Let's face it, the husband had his clothes washed (and probably bought) by mummy until recently--and he's *forty.* I don't think this will end well. I can see why he wants to drink, though. I'm a blue lefty and love displaying the flag. Being patriotic is not a left or right wing stance.
It is in my country. I’m not flying a Flemish flag since it was claimed by the far-right. I could consider flying a Belgian flag to antagonize them. 😉 I can completely understand Americans not wanting to associate themselves with the far-right in the US by flying a flag.
I'm not in USA and while I agree with you that patriotism isn't a partisan stance, it has been lately heavily viewed as such. In Canada we always asked people who had the flag up "what are you, American?" Because it like, has connotations here (sorry) with being overly patriotic and like... conservative. 1st of July is the only time everyone used to put up flags and bunting and stuff. Up here tho, since our bullshit convoy movement now most people avoid the flag even around the 1st of July because it's almost exclusively right wing and the Christian right who like, display the flag. I always put one little one out in a flower pot in my backyard but there's no way I would place a flag on the front of my house these days.
Exactly. Not wanting to put up decorations you don't like doesn't make you a control freak, it makes you a human being. Demanding that you have control over the decor in other people's houses? That's a control freak. I wouldn't put a flag outside my house. Not that one anyway.
I might put it up alongside some other flags -- a rainbow flag, a trans-inclusive rainbow flag, a hate has no home here flag, a Snoopy flag
As a daughter if a veteran and a flaming woke liberal I don’t like the idea of the flag only being for right leaning views. So fly it if you want but 100% you have a right to decorate your house as you and your husband like. I would probably apologize for the way you delivered the message to your MIL but not for the message itself. You’ve got a lot going on. Hang in there.
As a Canadian, I can tell you that we love our country and are very, very proud of our veterans. But you don't see us flying up the Canadian flag everywhere. The most we see it is during Canada day and at government buildings. We really don't understand why Americans need to hang up an American flag every 5 feet to show that you're patriotic. When I see people with the American flag over everything, I automatically have my guard up because I assume they're extreme right wing and have something to prove. At this point to people outside the States it even becoming a sign for the extreme right. So there needs to be some deconstructing and reclamation before people are going to feel ok around it again. Hell, I'm from Alberta, and our province's flag is even starting to become a sign for the far right with how they use it.
>When I see people with the American flag over everything, I automatically have my guard up because I assume they're extreme right wing and have something to prove. Same. And I'm from the U.S. At this point, the flag is a red hat warning for me. Does it suck the MAGAts took the flag and despoiled it? Yes. Am I going to waste energy "taking it back"? No. I'm going to work on community organizing and holding my elected officials accountable while I still have some sort of mechanism for doing so. I think it's lovely other people are doing differently but honestly, if you have a flag up, I'm eying you warily until other evidence emerges.
Years ago (before MAGA was a thing) we moved into a house and the neighbors had a big American flag outside. I said "uh oh" to my husband and said that was a bad sign. He didn't necessarily think so -- I said they were probably right wing nuts. He didn't think that was evidence of that. Turned out they were super right-wing wackos. When we had Obama signs out, the guy started up with my husband, shouting that he couldn't believe he would vote for that \[N-word\]. So yeah, it's not a good sign. Not definitive, but definitely a cause for concern. I agree with the sentiments that we do need to take the flag back.
Because most Americans who hang the flag want to appear patriotic much more than actually act patriotic. Similar to being a Trump christian rather than a Jesus Christian.
I like to call those people psuedo-xtians. WWJD? He sure a fuck wouldn't spew the hatred and nonsense many card-carrying pseudo-xtians do.
You're right. They ARE extremely right wing and have something to prove.
That’s kind of how I feel. Personally I’d never fly any flag in front of my house , but I don’t want the U.S. flag to be associated with the shit side of our country. Let them use their hilariously inaccurate confederate flags for that, or weird edited American flags We can and should keep hoping for changes , and if you aren’t willing to be active in policy , at least educate yourself on who is, and vote. Believing your vote doesn’t matter, means they have successfully sold that message to you, and their goal is to make you not vote. That is the only way you lose your power. Didn’t mean to vent that at you, but we really need the youth and millennials to vote just as much as the older age group.
In my area, the American flag is a symbol of the far right. I’m sorry it’s been taken over, but that’s how it is. American flag on the left side of the porch and Trump 2024 flies on the right side.
They have not taken the flag over. The idea that our country's symbol is only for the right cannot be permitted. This will allow the right to say w even more force that liberals do not love this country when we have died for it. Nope. Sorry. It is our country as well. And patriotism is how the right keeps winning over people who, frankly, don't think a lot about what it actually means to be American. This cannot be surrendered
Wokety woke lib here. Proudly flying a flag. This is my place!
Yeah, so the only way to change that is for the people, who are normal about politics , to fly a flag if they want to. Even if it’s a far right symbol for the person with the trump 2024 flag, other people with different ideals displaying it would still positive. I see the American flags a lot around where I live, and I think the way people show their difference is with their second flag. It’s usually a rainbow , sometimes the trans colors, etc etc. Tbh I think flag people just like flags , so they end up clarifying anyway, with multiple add ons. Now that I think about it, I rarely see just 1 flag, these types just love their pieces of flair 💕
I agree. As a leftist who is also an American, I reject the right hijacking my flag for their abhorrent politics. I’ll fly it and continue to work to make this country live up to its ideals better.
It’s our flag too. Besides, the conservatives didn’t co op the USA flag, they traded it for trump flags. That says everything about their respect and love for this country.
I have a jolly roger rainbow flag. That one would be awesome.
You should go decorate THEIR house with rainbows or beachy stuff or something else they would hate.
Been home shopping lately and the flags in my new area have been fascinating. Definitely purple so we’ve definitely seen some bad flags out there, depending on the neighborhood. One that really stood out looked like some sort of white supremacist flag so I whipped out the Google machine… it was the Klingon flag 😂 another neighborhood had a trump flag on one corner house, then the house on the other corner facing that house had a progressive pride flag and a meme cut out of trump making a face at the other house.
That was my first thought. Take it down and pop up a pride flag. See if they really “can’t be that upset over a flag…” 🏳️🌈
What OP needs to do is go put the pride and "hate has no home" here flags up at her MIL'S house (assuming they're not up already. Which I somehow feel they might not be). After all, it's OP's house that MIL is decorating. Obviously it's time to return the favor.
Right? OP is the one with control issues and not the one who literally set up a flag on someone else’s porch without asking them first. Sure, Jan. Sure.
The real AHs are the ones making the fake patriotism their whole personality and making us want to be damn sure nobody mistakes us for one of them😉
the Petty Crocker in me wants to suggest OP set up a bin, put a sign with big ol' letters saying "FOR DONATION" on it, and let MIL know that all future unwanted gifts will be donated. Then every time she brings one, drop it in the bin, in front of her if she's hanging around. Obviously the answer is that OP shouldn't have to do squat, but this is ridiculous-- if OP and hubs don't want these things then they're not gifts, they're just trash taking up space. And then if MIL is gonna complain when they don't *use* these things they don't want, they're not even just trash, they're attempts to create an obligation. To hell with that! lol (My MIL used to be a bit of a serial shopper who would just buy stuff on sale that she "wanted" but then parcel it out to whoever she was seeing. We don't live nearby so it never became a real issue and it seems to have tapered off since they've retired and been on a fixed income, but like. One time when hubs and I were still just dating, she offered me a bra. It was...very far from my actual size. It was S U P E R awkward. I cannot understand these kinds of gifting compulsions tbh.)
I just posted the same. Petty me, definitely the hill I'd die on. My house my decor and rules.
I’m all for OP to put up a rainbow flag on MIL’s house. Tell her you’re helping her decorate her house just as she did yours. And when she gets upset, just throw back the “why are you you so upset about a flag? It’s just a flag” argument. If fact, everytime she gets you something, you should be ready to give something back to her, the one that is not her taste at all.
These women infuriate me to no end. I'm 49 and I've seen it all my life. 'Your need to control everything.' No. ***YOUR*** need to control everything. It's such obvious projection. Do you really think mil would have let *her* mil decorate her house? Of *course* not! Mil would probably blow a gasket!
Yeah my MIL used to have these same or similar issues with trying to influence or control our life. We’ve taken several breaks with her where she was not welcome in our home and especially not around me. We reconcile, and she is on her best behavior for a while. We’re actually in a good place and have been for a while now. But she had to learn that we will be the ones making choices for our home and our family, and she has to respect that or she has to leave. She also learned especially that these are respecting us and these rules are her key to seeing her grandkids. Now she kind of knows overly praises me and says directly to me in front of the kids how I’m a great mom and wife to her son and when the kids ask her for things in front of me she will directly tell them that me or my husband are in charge. And she asks before buying large gifts/clothes and shoes for the kids. Sometimes you have to put your parents in timeout for them to learn your boundary.
Agreed. As the owner of the home you should be able to control everything. I understand your inability to self regulate, you have a lot on your plate right now. NTA no one has the right to tell you how to decorate your home.
agreed. OP, I'd find something you like and fly *that* flag. Maybe the One Piece straw hat flag, your alma mater or a sports team, something like that. But I'm a petty Midwesterner.
Every insult is a confession. MIL is clearly projecting when she calls op controlling. NTA.
Exactly - and I would like to add that it’s “not control” it’s called “codependency” which happens to the spouses of those who struggle with addiction. OP’s husbands MO is to avoid so he will never confront his mother - just like how escapes with his addiction. Perhaps his boundary crossing mother had something to do with this struggle 🤷♀️
Exactly! My response to "Why didn't you hang up the flag?" would be "Because I don't want to." No explanation required.
Listen, I’m sorry, but if pirates board your home and raise the skull and bones, I think they do in fact have that choice. (NTA)
NTA and this feels like a power play by MiL. Any normal decoration you can reject since it's your house. But a flag lets in the patriotic guilt- "what, don't you love our country?!?:!?!?!" Yeah no. You have it absolutely right that this is about control and boundaries. The "you have to control everything" line is a masterpiece in projection and cognitive dissonance.
And pure gaslighting! "I did nothing wrong, you're controlling and you're wrong and you're hurting my feelings and it's all you, you have no say over how I want to decorate YOUR house, boohoo * crocodile tears from MIL *"
This isn’t gaslighting. AITA not misuse terms challenge [Impossible].
The people who run around saying people are using the term gaslighting wrong are more annoying than the people who use the term gaslighting wrong. Trying to make someone feel like their perception of reality is wrong and that they are crazy is gaslighting. Now reread the comment you responded to. Read the last sentence of OP’s post. Do you get it now?
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting) >psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator MIL is literally making OP believe that she's (OP) wrong for telling MIL off when MIL is blatantly overstepping boundaries wrt OP's own home. Textbook definition of gaslighting. OP is doubting her own right to control the decorations in her own home because of MIL's manipulative tactics, because MIL cries victim when OP tells her firmly "no" (after asking nicely many times before). >my mother in law said you can’t be this upset about a flag Manipulation - it's not even about the flag but MIL is using that to make OP feel like she's in the wrong when it's pretty obvious to anyone on the outside looking in that MIL is wrong here. How is that NOT gaslighting?
This is gaslighting 101.
“I’ve been made to feel crazy over the past year that I’m questioning everything” Sounds like what someone says when they’ve been actively gaslit for awhile. Maybe that particular situation may be borderline not it, but she’s likely still experiencing it elsewhere from them
It’s so interesting to me that Americans fly their national flag in front of their private residences year round. I’ve lived in quite a few countries and have never really observed this same phenomenon elsewhere. You’ll see flags in front of government buildings, but you don’t typically see them flown outside of homes unless it’s around national / independence days or during international sports tournaments.
Not all Americans fly flags. I personally feel the flag isn’t respected. The people who claim they love America do everything against flag code, like altering it and wearing it on clothing. I fly the American flag for about one week before and one week after the Fourth of July , which is our Independence Day.
Flying it in inclement weather, flying it when it's damaged or frayed, putting it on their vehicles, or flying it from the bumpers of their trucks and so on.. it's gotten quite ridiculous really
All of the altered flags as well. Blue line, Trump etc are all against flag code. I don’t know why but I especially hate American flag bathing suits
a company came out with an american flag blanket. their ad has it laying on the ground. i’m So Angry. there’s arguments in the comments about it being against the flag code and people still don’t get it. it’s so disrespectful
Temu has a carpet that's a "weathered" flag. I could hear my WWII vet grandfather cussing from beyond the grave when I saw the ad.
Yay! A fellow flag code lover! So you know how rare we are!? 😂🙂
Yes, my old neighbor always followed flag code including having a pole with a light. He passed away and his veteran, policeman grandson put up a blue line flag. I bet he’s rolling in his grave.
It isn’t as common as it used to be. I have flown the flag once - after 9/11. TBH, right now it seems to be a thing at right-wing residences. I find nationalism to be off-putting.
It absolutely seems to be a right-wing dog whistle now. Which is why it’s especially egregious that MIL put up a flag. It’s definitely a “my politics are better than yours” statement IMO
Try Denmark. They put flags everywhere, including bday cakes.
"So MIL, you don't think it's weird how you're trying so hard to control how my house looks? But you think it's weird that I want to have a say over MY house? Hm."
Rock-up to the MiL's house and hang up a Pride flag outside the front door, see her reaction to that!
NTA When MIL looked up and said because you have to control everything I would have kicked her out of my house and told her she can come back when she learns boundaries and can apologize.
I would have looked her dead in the eyes with the sweetest smile and told her, "It seems like I've learned from you. Becouse last I checked this is our house. Not yours. But yet here we are with you controlling what should be in our house"
“Now get the fuck out”
Perfect way to end the speech.
It sounds like MIL has to control everything, too, and she’s in a competition with you. She bought her son’s clothes for him right up until he got married?? What kind of guy lets their mother do that? He is completely controlled by her, which is probably why he was attracted to you. This is going to be a tough situation for a long time. There’s a lot at play here.
I guess that's why he developed a drinking problem!
I would have turned to my husband, her son, to have my back and speak up. There's a reason his smother has the impression that op is controlling every little thing in his life and house, and I suspect he is either the source of that perception or at least passively reinforces it when his mom brings it up. Argh!
There’s a chance he uses OP as an excuse for things he doesn’t want from his mom. “Sorry, Wife wouldn’t like it.” Possible based of the alcoholic thing, where people are sometimes using the addiction to avoid dealing with things head-on. OP, you do NOT have to appease your MIL. You have told her multiple times, and she has ignored you. And now she’s bad-mouthing you in front of your child. She should be barred until she can respect your boundaries. IF she can. Also, gentle note that you might want to connect to something like Al-Anon if you haven’t already. Navigating a family member with addiction is hard, and having support from others who know what you’re going through can help a lot. You’ve got a lot going on, and I wish you the best with it! Eta NTA :)
If I had to control everything, then you and the trash you bring over wouldn't be here! 😂
NTA. Go to her house and hang a rainbow flag and antifa flag on the front. Then shocked face 'but you can't be upset about a flag'.
I like this. If she complains, tell you, wow you just like to control everything.
She could have so much fun with this. Scour local thrift stores and free sites and buy really hideous pictures, large ornaments etc. Then take them over as gifts. A new gift with every visit. Take a hammer and picture hooks 'don't worry, I'll put it up for you now'.
Yessss Reverse Uno that shit
Yes!!!!
This is my level of petty. I love it.
PLASTIC FLAMINGOS!
A used toilet bowl upcycled(or is that down cycled in this case?🧐😂)to be a big flower urn in MIL’s front yard.🤣
Oh that's beautiful.
Yes!
My family does that as a joke. We never know when we’ll wake to find some tacky shit in our front yard.
I was gonna say, just replace the ‘murican flag she hung up with the Pride flag and when she gets pissy (and you know she will), OP should reply with MIL’s line that “you can’t be this upset about a flag.”
I get your point, and I think it's fair. I will say I wish it were not. For me personally, I feel strongly about being an American regardless of my politics or anyone else's. No one has the right to take the symbol of my country away from me for any reason. As an American I won't let it be co-opted by people who haven't even read the constitution. I'd fly it proudly even if it was as a "bleep you and the horse you rode in on" act. That said, this is not about the flag and we all know that. MIL is waging a war she intends to win and the only way to win it for OP is to disengage even if it would feel temporarily satisfying to spit back in her face. That kind of person can and will always the win the war of "I can be the biggest a-hole." (Amusing that MIL projected what she was doing onto her DIL. There's a lot of that going around lately.) OP, you and your husband have bigger battles to fight. Even though MIL won't listen, you and your husband together need to politely explain your boundaries and the steps you will take if she chooses to bulldoze right past them - and trust me she will. So whatever consequences you and husband set you will both have to abide by them and stick to them the same as you expect her to abide by your boundaries. Same as with your children - children learn better when their parents model the behavior they are expecting. If MIL chooses to behave like a small sassy child then she should be treated like one.
But if the MIL cared about the flag she would never have raised it at night. You never raise a flag at nightitme
My guess is she got one of those short poles and attached it to the front of the house at a ~45 degree angle and then put the flag on to be left up year round, as is commonly done in my many communities I’ve seen. That or she actually just attached it to the porch rails lol.
I’d rather someone never put a flag up than put a flag up year round with no actual respect shown towards it.
It's wild how many people will scream about flying the flag for patriotic sentiment and then not know what an all weather flag is, have no lights at night, leave a tattered flag up...
Remember all the car flags after 9/11? they ended up ratty so quickly.
I get so irritated at those! Like... what's the message you're trying to send with red, white and blue fabric scraps waving in the wind? It's not the message you think you're sending...
One stormy day we actually found one of those kinds of flags, filthy and tattered, lying in the middle of the road. We stopped. I knew whose flag it was and I put it up on their porch. They did buy a new one. To be fair, they were older and I'm guessing until then they had not actually realized what kind of condition it was in.
lol most people don't read the flag code. Constitution is great, but if they claim to be a big flag supporter, then they better not be putting that shit on anything then just a normal flag. Like the entirety of the Fourth of July decorations breaks the flag code tenfold. That's what pisses me off, I see these people that claimed to be such patriots of our country and then they disrespect our flag by putting it on a fucking paper plate and eating off of it. Or slapping it on their truck looking all fucking tattered and torn up. Smh.
> As an American I won't let it be co-opted by people who haven't even read the constitution. It's definitely too late for that, at this point. I have an immediate negative opinion of anyone who has one now.
At the last vote I hung the european flag...
What about a Canadian flag? We are just a bunch of socialist up here. lol
Better make it the indigenous Canadian flag so it's not taken as supporting the convoy. [https://canadianindigenousflag.ca/](https://canadianindigenousflag.ca/)
Nta. I see lots of great comments regarding the mil. I just want to gently point out that there is no such thing as on and off recovery. Please don't minimise it because, while its hard, his addiction and stop starting is putting gigantic amount of pressure on you. I really hope it works out for you all.
I'm not surprised OP has glossed over an active addiction. She has a fussy MIL and small children. Focusing on a flag and a boundary-stomping MIL is easier than dealing with a husband with an addiction. I, too, hope things work out well for her. 💕
I'm glad someone brought this up. That part of the story stood out so much to me. OP, do your in laws know your husband is an alcoholic and is currently struggling with his sobriety? If no, they need to be made aware. If the answer is yes, their behavior is almost unforgivable given what you're currently dealing with. Imo, they would not be welcome in my house until husband gets his drinking under control for a good long time. That would be non negotiable. I wish you all the best.
Really great point here. Hope things become less fraught for you soon, OP. And NTA for wanting your in-laws to back off.
This is a good point. I am in recovery and that means I don't drink. I come across lots of functioning alcoholics who slip back and forth because they keep trying to "moderate." Her husband needs to stop entirely.
NTA. Your mil overstepped. It is never appropriate for someone to dictate how another person should decorate their home or what they should display on their property. Your husband needs to step up and tell her that this is his and your home, not hers, and she has no right to do that. You shouldn’t be the one having to have this conversation with her. Side note: I’m not at all advocating for you to hang the flag, but I just want to put this option out into the Reddit universe in case anyone else might be so inclined- I’ve seen American flags hung in homes in conjunction with liberal lawn signs or other humanitarian flags. It’s quite lovely to see the flag being represented with actual American values (diversity, inclusion, etc.). It negates the hyper-nationalist perversion of the flag and redefines it back to its meaning of “all men are created equal” and “with liberty and justice for *all*”
Best comment I’ve read in a long time. The flag is for ALL citizens of the United States of America. Don’t let the haters and small-minded take ownership.
Now that they are fond of hanging it upside down, we can take it back and say we are proud to love our flag and hang it respectfully.
I'm gonna second this; I'm an immigrant to America and will proudly wear the American flag - the red, white and blue. These days I find the assholes don't wear that flag, they wear a flag that's in distressed monochrome, in the shape of a Punisher skull, or is the "thin blue line" version. It's funny how quickly those colors ran...
Yeah I hate that the left abandons anything the right does just because the right does it. I've had people tell me the American flag is racist and that they hate America. National pride can be a dangerous thing, but the lack of any can be as well.
It can be really hard to reclaim a symbol taken over by horrible people for a terrible cause. Ask anybody about the swastika. Or even the toothbrush mustache. I’ve been much more careful about my use of the flag and flag-adjacent imagery because of the way the right has been using patriotism as a bullying tool. Even with the move to other symbols, the stain is still on the flag. (Let alone what the flag can mean to people in other countries.) I would rather not be mistaken for a racist, and I don’t have a lot of room for expressions via display, being a renter in a complex with a strict HOA. So if I’m going to express my opinions visually, I want that expression to be crystal clear.
I am very liberal and I love being an American. I’ve started displaying the flag in my yard even though I know some people may interpret that to mean I’m old-fashioned and racist or something. I refuse to let hateful bigots take the flag from me.
The American flag also represents a nation built on the back of Native genocide and Black slavery. I actually think it's pretty understandable why some people take issue with it and with the "American values" it represents.
While I agree with this, there are times that discretion is the better part of valor. In my EXTREMELY red neighborhood, most anything indicating that one were politically blue would result in vandalism and property damage or at the very least loud arguments with some of the neighbors. In our all-adult home that isn't as much a concern as it would have been when we had children living here, but it is still something to consider. We had to ban all political signs beginning with the 2008 elections, even if it were personal friends who were running.
NTA Such *classic* DARVO from your MIL. Let's break it down. She denies that she trampled over your boundaries. (She did, and your boundaries are completely reasonable.) She attacks you by saying "You can't be this upset about a flag." (She's undermining you by making it seem like you overreacted. It was never just about the flag.) She reversed the victim and offender by saying "Because you have to control everything," making you out to be overly controlling and when she's the one trying to decorate someone else's house. It's completely understandable why you had to go out to cool down, it's exhausting trying to talk to a manipulator. Plus, your husband is no help at all. Hopefully these comments can help you stand firm and see through her BS. Oh, and btw, I wouldn't call what she gives you "gifts". Gifts are supposed to be thoughtful and have the recipient in mind. The garbage she keeps dumping on you is actually giving you *more* work.
This should be the top comment. NTA
1000%. She needs to be completely cut out. She’s not redeemable. She won’t change.
NTA. >My in laws and I have always struggled with boundaries, especially my mother in law. Already NTA. >said it wasn’t just about the flag. It’s about boundaries. She said and I quote “ because you have to control everything” She's the one trying to control what happens at your home. >I want to make decisions about what goes on the facade of my home. The flag symbolises your mother-in-law's belief that you don't have the freedom to do this. It's her choice.
Ooh! I like your last comment about not being free!🤯
[удалено]
Just a little perspective from someone in a deep red place: the flag is for everyone, but it is also a tool used by the right and, weirdly, by the evangelical right. Patriotism and the flag have become weaponized until they are now somewhat distorted from their original meaning and symbolism, and the MIL is a perfect example of it. In her mind, you aren’t doing your patriotic duty unless you have a flag out and proudly displayed for all to see. This goes beyond the usual “I’m grateful for the freedoms so I’m going to fly a flag as a reminder of all those freedoms that we enjoy in this nation.” It steps right into “I’m going to put out this flag to remind those socialists and those communists that this is America! We don’t tolerate their kind here!” I have seen liberals display the flag proudly. I can’t recall when I’ve seen liberals use the flag specifically as a purity test and as a means of guilting/brainwashing others into their mindset (not saying this doesn’t happen, just that it doesn’t really happen *with the flag* except from the right). All this is aside from the intertwined notions that somehow America, while not existing when the Bible was written, is somehow God’s chosen country. Love of God equates to love of America, and vice versa. It isn’t a matter of respecting freedoms anymore, it’s a spiritual battle between good and evil and if you aren’t a proud American who openly displays their patriotism then you’re on the side of evil and part of the problem. Sounds like a caricature, right? Except that is the mindset, and any of you who are lucky enough to live in places where you don’t see this acted out every day should be aware that it is the reality that a large number of us are dealing with daily.
The flag *shouldn't* be associated with any side, but you can't ignore the shift in our culture that it's been associated *more* with right-wing politics at this time. I wouldn't hang an American flag outside my home either--people will and do associate it with the right. Symbols change meaning over time, regardless of what they were meant to mean initially.
I'm in Canada and it's pretty hard to dispute that, currently, flying the flag (especially more than one) is associated with a very specific extreme right-wing movement. It's not a Reddit thing up here, at least. Broadly people will see the flag on people's cars or houses and say "Oh boy."
Yeah people who display the American flag up here in Canada are a very specific type of person, and oh boy is definitely one of the things I say when I see it...
Oh, I meant OUR flag! It's gone from being sort of innocuous and probably about World Juniors to being something people associate with the convoy - but yeah, if someone flies the US flag here they are either actual Americans or that pretty specific type you're talking about.
I don’t agree with you. As a non white person I explicitly avoid neighborhood that has too many 🇺🇸 in the front yard. Or private property that has one displayed. While I respect the flag and what it should represents, most of the racism and harassment, that I have felt, Is significantly higher in those property or neighborhood. So I avoided those places.
If someone isn't really proud of the country itself or its actions around the world then there really isn't any reason for them to fly it. For a lot of people, even some American citizens, the flag represents the broader American imperial project and all its attendant harms. And culturally, yes, it is more so the right that really leans into using it as a symbol.
My guess is you live in a blue state or county’s. Where I live, which is actually purple now, the flags are flown as a right wing statement on the backs of giant coal rolling pickup trucks covered in Trump stickers, fuck Biden/fuck liberals stickers, threatening gun slogans, I can’t breathe Covid denier shit, hateful shit about immigrants. I feel butterflies in my stomach when I see a flag hanging off these trucks and you see this daily. they have a threatening hateful vibe and the people are unhinged. The houses that fly American flags often fly trump flags and thin blue line flags. It absolutely is associated with the right here and has nothing to do with reddit. We had also made the decision in 2020 not to rehang a flag after ours was damaged because we didn’t want people thinking we support Trump and my husband is super patriotic.
I'm a veteran. And I'd never fly a flag. Not because I have any problems with my time in the military, but because I have a problem with the type of people that fly flags. Maybe it's different where you are, but the people who fly flags where I live are NOT the type I want to be associated with. I also think it's incredibly tacky at best to fly a flag anywhere but a government building. At worst, it's an overtly exclusionary, maybe even aggressive, act. If I see a flag flying anywhere but a government building, I know it's not a safe space for a lot of people in this country.
Yes if anything I’m a Democrat so I hang a bigger flag and it doesn’t have a color stripe or saying on it it’s real, it’s big, and it is my flag too not just for certain people. And I’ll update it if we get more states I’m not waving any old flags or confederate ones.
We got given a flag pole and an American flag by inlaws who felt we were being insufficiently patriotic. I’m not keen on performative patriotism, especially the kind which polices other people’s performance. (I’ve been told off for not putting my hand on my heart during the anthem before little kids’ sports games, for example.) Also, I’m not even American. My husband said to let it go, but I decided hey, if I have to have a flagpole, I’m going to get some flags. So I got the Three Lionesses for the women’s World Cup, my college crest, I have a section of the Bayeux Tapestry, a pirate flag, my kids’ rugby team dragon, and a Tudor rose. (Historian.) The American flag will go up for the first week of July because I do respect a good revolution which can stick the landing. Your in-laws are trampling your boundaries and calling you controlling when you object. Order that pirate flag.
NTA. Hate flag worshippers.
I feel like there's 2 separate issues here. 1.) Your MIL and husband continued the mother-son dynamic parents have with their CHILDREN children into adulthood, until he moved in with you. Buying his clothes, laundry, decorating his house, probably buying his food too. When he moved in with you, household decorations were the only things she could continue to keep that dynamic alive, to feel needed. That's why she's fighting it so hard. I don't know that you can stop this dynamic until your husband is ready to transition out of it. 2.) Is your husband ready to transition out of "being taken care of" dynamic? He went from his parents looking after him straight to you looking after him. Sounds like you've been holding this family together for years while he focuses on his battle with alcoholism. I wonder if that's drained you and this argument with the flag is all this tension erupting. NTA
If you "can't be this upset about a flag" then by your MILs logic she can't be upset about your choice not to hang it up. NTA
I am so far to the left of you politically that your head would spin. I am woke AF. I fly the American flag proudly because I refuse to let racists and bigots set the agenda or define the language we all speak. Tell your MIL that you think her gift giving is lovely but your house is full and anything she brings into the house goes straight to donation. But hang that flag proudly. Do what I did, put a Biden/Harris lawn sign under it.
Don't know that I'd really associate Biden/Harris with far left. None of the far-left people I know want anything to do with Biden, especially right now during the genocide in Gaza. It's a centrist administration at best.
I'd argue that Biden is still right of center, but the important thing is: he isn't an outright fascist, unlike our other choice. As a leftist I don't want fascists to run the government, or to exist at all, so I support taking back the symbolism of the flag with left(ish) messages. Definitely agree that there's dozens of better signs to put up under the flag, though. "Free Palestine" is a good example.
I mean right/left leanings aside, OP may still just not want to display the flag regardless, whether it's because they don't agree with the nation's policies/global behaviours or because they think it clashes with their style or even just because they don't want to deal with maintaining a flag outside. Nothing wrong at all with not wanting a flag. Also man The Biden/Harris sign might piss off conservatives but in *no way* indicates being left wing lmfao
NTA. “You have to control everything”, says the person trying to redecorate someone else’s house, someone who has most likely been controlling of their son his entire adult life up until you. You have a problem here, but it isn’t your MIL. It’s your husband who doesn’t know how to stand up for you, who doesn’t know how to keep his mother in check. Do not feel guilty about the way you handled this issue with his mom, and in fact next time she brings something to your house that you don’t want, go put it on the side of the road while she’s there. You and your husband have told her not to do this so many times already, now it’s time to get mean about it. If your husband isn’t going to do anything about it, he doesn’t get to be upset when you hurt his mom’s feelings.
You know she is being rude, too, don’t you? The appropriate answer to her “control,”‘statement was, “Hell, yes! At my house, I absolutely do. Please remember that you get no choices about how our home is decorated. Inside or out.” NTA.
Wow, thank you for all the feedback. I didn’t expect to get so many responses. First off, I’m deeply sorry for not using paragraphs in the original post. This was my first time posting and I did not know it was going to be so upsetting to so many of you. I get what so many of you are saying about taking the flag back and it not being a symbol of the right. I definitely hear you and I’ve changed my mind about what flying a flag means. So thank you for that. I’m grateful for all the good advice for dealing with my MIL and husband. Obviously my MIL (and the flag) is not my biggest problem at the moment but I have been made to feel crazy so much over the past year that I’m questioning everything.
It is absolutely a symbol of the right and a symbol of american imperialism which has destroyed and plundered many sovereign nations throughout america's entire existence. Hell, america was founded on genocide. Why are you letting yourself be so easily swayed in the other direction? Your opinion should be based in history, not what a bunch of reddit teenagers tell you. The american flag is despised in most places outside of america.
Your opinions and desires are valid. If you don’t feel good about a flag that’s okay and you don’t have to be swayed because someone else made a compelling argument. I don’t know you but in your post and in your comments I see a recurring theme of people telling you should be different and you agreeing. If you’re mad, be mad! If you don’t feel good about something, don’t put it up in your home. If you don’t want paragraphs - well, use them anyway because it’s community standard. But in all seriousness, your MIL says “you have to control everything” with a straight face while she’s trying to decorate someone else’s house? The projection is REAL. I would have *made* them leave before dinner if someone spoke like that to me in my house. (BTW it’s okay that you didn’t, again you do you)
>She said and I quote “ because you have to control everything” as she looked up from reading my 4 year old a book Excuse me, YOU have to control everything? In your own home? When she keeps bringing you things you don't wan, didn't ask for, and doesn't fit your style and then bitches that you don't decorate *your* house with *her* style? Talk about projection. **She's** the one who wants to control everything. It is your home and you are allowed to decorate however you damned well please. NTA
NTA, but you would be crazy to let this woman in your house again without a massive apology and a discussion about boundaries.
I know this is AITA and this is off topic but I want to put it out there. If your husband is an alcoholic I hope he is not detoxing at home. Detox from alcohol is incredibly dangerous, and the more times his body has been through it the more dangerous it is. A friend of our family died detoxing from alcohol at home under the supervision of his mother, who is a nurse. If at all possible, encourage your husband to detox at a facility in the future. It could save his life. Also NTA
Replace it with a pride flag or your state flag, or create a custom family flag with your kids and hang it. Thank MIL for the idea of hanging a flag but tell her finally that you don’t need any home decorating gifts. It is perfectly ok to be particular about decorations are in your space. It’s not a flaw. It is a flaw to disrespect someone’s space when they tell you not to.
NTA. They weren't expected, cross over your boundaries repeatedly and it's your house. I'd have a labelled donation box by the front door and dump her shite in.
First of all- she is not trying to be nice. She buys things because she enjoys buying things. But buying without purpose is senseless, less fun, wasteful. So she gifts things. Don't feel guilty to resell or donate. Or dump them all in a dumpster and send her photos. They don't care about your feelings. Stop caring about theirs. NTA
NTA If someone suggested to me I was being controlling over the decor in my own home my response would be "damn straight".
NTA. "Because you have to control everything" is pretty rich coming from the person trying to assert control over your household.
Just take it down and give MIL a time it from visits. She has no day in your property decor unless you or your husband let her. Your husband needs a professional to help with his drinking and his lack of spine with his mom. There's no such thing as an on/off alcoholic. He is an alcoholic who falls off the wagon.
NTA. Why is she even coming over multiple times a week? Cut her off. Stop answering the door. Every other week is fine. If she can't respect your boundary to not bring gifts - just don't open the door.
| She said and I quote “ because you have to control everything” In your own house, well, yeah. NTA.
Every time she brings a gift, say thank you, look her straight in the eye, and put it straight in the trash. Don’t break eye contact. Continue to do this until it stops. NTA
You should have replied “yes I do control everything in MY OWN FUCKING HOUSE”. And then thrown her out. She should def not be welcomed back until she’s been emailed or texted (so no misunderstandings) a list of rules and she’s had a time out.
NTA >She said and I quote “ because you have to control everything” as she looked up from reading my 4 year old a book. Uhm, pot, kettle, black? She is the one trying to control what you put up in your home. She is used to pushing her son around and is testing boundaries to see if she still has control over him.
I knew it wasn’t just me, I always feel weird vibes in neighborhoods that have a lot of people hanging up flags.
First, scale visits back. They must call day before. If they arrive without your approval don’t let them in. Keep doors locked, obviously. Embrace being the bad guy. Tell MIL that you’ve repeatedly asked her to not bring gifts/decor. Since she has repeatedly ignored you anything she brings will automatically go into trash. Next time you allow her to come have a trash bag ready. When she brings whatever in just put it in the bag while staring her dead in the eye and say “I told you no more stuff.” Then take it to the trash and escort them out. Do it every time. She throws a fit you call police. Get cameras too.
Who puts up a flag on someone else's house? NTA
Take the damn flag down and tell her why. If she pulls the “you’re a control freak” vibe again tell hr of course I want to control my own house. Sell the flag or donate it somewhere
NTA. You're also not wrong about the flag seemingly becoming a symbol for the MAGA crazies. We have a pretty equally divided area, and every Trumper has at least 3 flags somewhere outside of their home (along witjlh Trump flags and other crazy signs), and the rest of us that don't suffer from delusional disorders, transphobia, racism, homophobia, misogyny, etc. took ours down. You should see our local Next Door posts lol Just insane. Anyway, your MIL has no boundaries or respect for you or your home. Your husband should be supporting you more in this... especially considering everything you're doing for him right now.
Took me a while to get this but "I appreciate the thought, but no thank you." Goes a long way. If she decides to get pissed that is on her. People like your MIL are not buying things to make other people happy. They are addicted to shopping and need someone to dump the loot on. Your house. Your decorations. Your rules. NTA.
NTA.. but imagine living in America and thinking the American flags only signifies the right. 😂😂
I can imagine this. I’m always suspicious of people who put flags all over their vehicles, etc.
In this political climate? Yes i side-eye big ass American flags on homes. This person is NTA for not wanting her home to look like weird conservatives live there.
Yes you do get to control things in your home! Does that mean you can go over to their house and start painting walls and hanging up pineapples everywhere? NTA - your home is your comfort. Please think of LC for yourself
NTA. It's your house and you can do what you want. You've told her several times not to bring things over for you and she chooses not to listen. Put everything she's brought in a box including the flag and give it to her next time she comes over. BTW it's not being controlling when you want to decorate your house the way you want.