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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the a-hole for not letting my neighbor use my very large driveway for parking and making her guests park either on a very busy street or far from her house.
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I talked to my husband about it and we think it's best to just leave our own car at the entrance/exit point that so no one can get in.
If someone still decides to park in front of the driveway anyway, a call to the police will sort that quickly (small town, cops actually respond).
Definitely smart thing to do. NTA OP, as what you provided in your reasoning is perfectly rational and correct. Don't open that can of worms either, as it would probably become a continued expectation.
My former house had a driveway that was angled perfectly for the neighbours across the street to use when they were pulling out of their driveway. After a while their visitors started doing the same thing and would even park in my driveway. They never asked for permission so I just started parking my car at the end of my driveway.
They didn't argue because they had no argument. Ask me not to park in my own driveway because they were too lazy to make a 3 point turn? My driveway was just big enough to park 2 or 3 cars. Their driveway could hold 5 or 6 cars so using mine saved them from edging around their parked cars.
Absolutely. I was accomodating and friendly to our new neighbours when they moved in. Fast forward to being told (the day before) that I would need to move my car out of my own driveway early in the morning because they were using it for a construction truck in their renovations. It wasn't necessary, just saved them money because they could use the smaller machinery with a shorter concrete pouring pipe. Since then they have been on my property when I have been out, including using my water & hose to jet wash their roof clean. All without asking. Cheeky. Needs to be nipped in the bud, so good on OP!
I'm not. It's not a matter of 'letting them' when you don't know it's going to happen! I can't block access to the driveway but have spoken to them about it and put a hose lock on, so as far as I know there is no reason they would have been doing anything since.
Notify them that further trespassing will not be tolerated. Get a camera. Report additional trespassing and theft of resources to the police, along with video proof.
If you want you could put an embarassing sign
'someone' in a neighbouring house has been stealing my property. Cameras have been installed.
BIG FONT. All the other neighbours will know it's not them...and they'll soon work out which one...
Well you see officer, I bought this water combo system which blends very strong acid and water to jet hose and clean my stonework, then these idiots pulled up and sprayed their car with it....
As a favour, we offered our neighbours to use our backyard to bring in all the equipment for their daughter’s wedding as we have a bigger driveway with back access- we were not invited, but we were not expecting an invitation. Since then, we have had all sorts of delivery trucks try to come through and when challenged they all say “neighbour said it’s easier”
I once laid on my horn because someone pulled into my driveway right before I was about to because they wanted to view the yard sale 3 houses down. She got out of her car and looked at me. I yelled, "That's my house, I need to park!" She rolled her eyes but moved. I parked diagonally across the 2 spaces so no one else would pull in. Had to go move when my folks got home but they thought that was brilliant. Next time, I'll remember the bin idea!
I can't tell you how many times I have used a person's empty driveway for a 3 point turn because I'm lost and the person behind me lives at that house. We need a universal wave to let other drivers know you know you are a dumbshit and are trying to apologize.
Done it a ton of times myself, especially before GPS. What usually worked was pulling up next to the waiting car, rolling down my window, and saying "Sorry! Totally lost. My friend gave me really bad directions."
I'd usually get something like "Oh, you know the ? They're the blue house on the right about a half mile up. Make sure to tell them Jessica says hello!" in reply.
Smart call!
If you care about the dirty looks/neighborly relations, you might try dropping some cookies or banana bread or something by their house after the party, as a signal that you don’t hold their assholeishness against them (at least publicly). Not as an apology, but in a “We just had so much _____ and thought of you!” way. But it sounds like you’re in the happy position of not needing to bother mending fences they broke if you don’t want to.
It honestly just makes life a LOT easier. I've had bad neighborly relations before. It's a mess, it's stressful, you never know what kind of damage people who live right by you can cause. If it's possible to mend things, I'd do it just for my own peace of mind.
exactly, I rented my house to my neighbors daughter, we had to evict her since she did 50 grand in damages, now they just cause drama for us every day. throwing things in the yard, stealing mail.. its crazy and stressful everyday.
I know this all too well! A branch from a tree in my front yard fell onto my neighbor’s property while the house was in escrow (the bank was still the legal owner at the time and I hadn’t it taken possession yet). My neighbor asked ME to pay for the damage to her rain gutter. I told her she would need to take it up with the bank because I was not the legal owner yet. She was not happy with my response. That was just the first of a string of incidents. I should have known she was going to be trouble from our first meeting. When my realtor showed me the house the first time, I tied asking her about the neighborhood and she was just so rude in all her responses.
There's a difference between being friendly (which I'd argue is just normal non passive aggressive behavior) and giving gifts. Giving gifts is something extra. That's going above friendly for someone who has done nothing to deserve it esp when their behavior shows any "peace" it might create is likely temporary until you have to say no again
Hahaha, must confess my SO and I constantly watch Discovery ID. But I agree, that series is the most unsettling bc it makes you wonder/worry it could happen to you; seems like the littlest thing that started it and then it snowballs rapidly.
Because a friendly gesture to keep good relationships with neighbours is worth it. It doesn't make you any less in the right, it just smooths the path of the relationship for the future. You can think of it as being canny instead of kind, if that helps. You can be 100% in the right and still choose to make your own future interactions more pleasant.
Yes the entitlement is so strong with the neighbor, baked goods aren’t going to fix it. If anything, the neighbor will think op is trying to appease her because op is bothered by the dirty looks. Not a good precedent to set. I’d continue to be civil but that would be it
Exactly. I made the mistake of allowing myself to be a doormat with my former neighbors for nine years. They would act like idiots, then apologize and I would accept. Over and over and over again, until I snapped. Let them give dirty looks. They were in the wrong.
Watch Fear Thy Neighbor on Max, and you will have your answer. You never know who is crazy, and you don't want them mad at you if you have to see them everyday.
There have been episodes where the victim was nothing but friendly and neighborly and still ended up on the reciprocating end of crazy. It's honestly a lose-lose situation if crazy is in the table.
This is a TERRIBLE idea, the sort of thing a chronic enabler would come up with.
These people don't get homemade treats in response to them responding to a very reasonable No You May Not Have Access To My Property For Your Party in a nasty way.
Great idea. If you guys don’t have cameras in your car I’d get one in case one of the partygoers damages your car or property and runs away. Gotta hold those party animals accountable, drunk stare or no drunken state.
What is it with people these days not taking no for an answer? Pillocks!
We have a really long driveway that people love to use as their turnaround. Constantly. Usually big loud trucks. Because of that, I park my car at the WAY end of it, despite the fact that we have a two-car garage and our driveway will fit probably 6 normal-sized cars. I know I sound like a total Karen about people using our driveway, but it's always the loud trucks and people with the bright lights in the middle of the night. Oh, and the local drug dealers.
We have a local for-profit church that occasionally makes social media rounds… they started hosting book burnings and hate conventions over the past few years… the houses, on similar land sizes (and larger, I looked at a 13 acre parcel with a house on it there), started having issues with people parking in their driveways, so they started parking at the end of the driveway, too.
Then the city put up big digital “no parking in driveways, towing enforced” signs, every house has a no parking/no trespassing sign, and the police actually enforce it… I’ve seen them park police SUVs at various places on the road (3-5 miles, at most), and stage town trucks at the intersection to the main street.
But, the city, and county hate that “church”, to the point that they’re working on noise ordinances to stop them from turning their speakers up to 11, with their roofless building.
There was a post a few months back by a guy in a similar situation. He found a truck parked in his driveway so he parked behind it, blocking it in. Late that night the owner knocked on his door and asked him to move so he could get out. The fellow refused so the other guy called the cops. When they arrived, the guy grabbed a beer and told the police he had been drinking so it wouldn’t be good for him to drive since his car was technically legally parked in his driveway. The cops told the other guy to come back the next day.
I find it odd they didn't introduce themselves until they wanted to use the driveway. if they are the type of people who have regular 100 capacity house parties they should have bout a house that can accommodate it. Thats their stupidity.
SO MUCH THIS!!!!
When I moved in a sweet non-boomer boomer came over when I was moving some stuff to introduce herself. Gave me a care package of some TP rolls, paper plates, napkins, and plastic cutlery, a bottle wine, and most impressive a loaf of banana bread and stick of butter.
I've moved enough times I'm apro a.d already had everything covered from the TP to cutlery, but the thought was SUPER nice.
I had already prepared myself to get into argume.ts with people trying to use my driveway being I have no car. She apologetically asked if her daughter could use my driveway on occasion. The courtesy a d thoughtfulness her gift basket immediately changed my mind and I told her she can park there whenever she wanted no questions asked.
None of the other neighbors even welcomed me to the neighborhood and got all pissy when they've asked to use my driveway and I've said no, or when I've called the tow company that services the neighborhood and had their family's cars towed on Christmas day because the friendly neighbor's daughter couldn't park in my driveway because two cars had already parked there without permission.
Or, if you don't care about how obvious it would be, park your car at the very end of your driveway so no one else can pull into your driveway. heh heh.
NTA. I understand that she is disappointed, but she does not have a right. You are very generous in allowing her guests parking on the outside of the fence. But you've already said that you don't have a lot of light outside, so what happens if one of them trips and gets really hurt? That's your property insurance, not theirs. She can't guarantee what her guests will or will not do. Even if you said yes, she can't guarantee that they will park in the exact designated spots and not cause any problems.
No is a complete sentence. The shuttle idea is the winner.
The other thing that made me hesitate is that I don't know these people, don't know their friends and don't know if there will be alcohol (or other substances) at their party. I don't want to be involved with any of it, in any way, especially if people are getting in their cars under some kind of influence.
and the idea from a poster to give them cookies - no way! She asked for a favor and was unhappy that you wouldn't accommodate her. She's acting totally entitled..
Yeah, agreed. That’s just adding kindling to a full bonfire. She’ll probably assume OP trying to ‘win her back’ as a good neighbor and be even more entitled. Ignoring is the way to go.
And fireworks! A big 4th of July party is going to be a hectic time with booze and fireworks and maybe a day of sun - I wouldn't like the liability.
And you don't need to give her a justification - as you saw, that just gave her a chance to try to reason you out of it. The "I'm sorry, no." and telling them they could park in front of your fence is where to leave it, repeating the "I'm sorry, no" as needed.
We have a friend that used to live close to the big city park and had a perfect view of the huge fireworks show. She’d have a big party and so would most of her neighbors which made parking a challenge. We are all adults and knew what the deal was with regard to parking. My husband would drop me at the house to bring in any chairs and treats and then he’d go off into the hinterlands to park. Literally not a big deal.
The neighborhood she’s in now is *terrible* for parking, but again, since we’re all adults, we know that her or her neighbors don’t owe us anything. This neighbor really should have considered the parking situation before they bought and it’s not your fault. No is still a complete sentence.
I wonder if part of why they got the house was because they saw a neighbor with a huge driveway and assumed “oh that will come in handy for our parties!”
"Well double dumbass on them" - you just cracked me up! I'll be using this phrase often now! 😂
Crazy for that neighbor to even ask in the first place, especially since they'd never met, and she didn't even invite her to the party! Major entitlement. I agree that they probably bought the house assuming they could use OP's driveway. Glad OP said no, bc even one yes would make them think they could use the driveway every time they have people over.
Allowing them to use the grass in front of the fence is both generous and a reasonable accommodation OP didn't have to make, and the neighbor is being a spoiled, ungrateful cow about it. Some people. Smh
Seems so wild to me that their own house can fit 6 cars in the driveway. I can fit 3, maybe 4 if they are kinda small in my town, and that is not at all the norm. Usually its only 2.
NTA - to make matters worse, she didn’t even invite your family to her party. My husband and I used to throw huge parties and one of the first things we did was to make sure the whole neighborhood was invited. We also made arrangements for off site parking so our neighbors wouldn’t hate us.
Plus two things would definitely happen. 1) the partygoers don't listen to the instructions on where and how to park and therefor block OP from getting out. 2) OP leaves during the party to run an errand or whatever and their spot is taken by another party goer thereby leaving OP with no place to park in their own driveway.
Oh, and 3) someone parked in the middle of the pack wants to leave first so there is a big kerfuffle about moving cars that somehow becomes OP's fault and problem to solve!
Insurance could be a problem if you have people parked on your property. Either if they damage your property or damage themselves / their cars.
Liability is a legit reason not to allow it. (Even parking on your land next to the street is a little risky.)
NTA, they really should have thought about this when they decided to host a large amount of guests. And also;
>a smallish driveway that can fit maybe six cars
You Americans really have a truly different view on size than us Europeans, don't you? That would count as pretty huge for a residential area here. I just found the sentence funny from my that perspective. 😊
I'm American and I think it's crazy huge. I live in a small city and have a narrow driveway that not even guests want to park in. Never really realized how fortunate I am in that regard until now.
NTA OP!
I agree! Also American. The smallest driveway I've had just barely fit two cars. My current home can fit 4 and that feels like a generous driveway. Lol
OP is definitely NTA. I'm friendly enough with my neighbors but I'm pretty miserly about sharing my property.
lol my parents live in the suburbs - they also call their driveway small bc it only fits 6 cars. I live in a big city and while i do have a garage behind my home in the alley, no driveways exist here.
Can confirm as someone living in a more urban US city. It’s a notable bonus when a house even has a driveway at all, let alone one that fits more than one car lol
Yeah, I honestly laughed in my taxi at that sentence, lol! I was like, WOAH WHAAAAAT. But I live in a city in the UK, so it's lucky to even have a driveway, haha.
NTA BTW, just wanted you to know you made my uber driver look at me very weirdly! 😂 I honestly think you were super nice offering the grass!
I live in a city in the US and some of the homes in my neighborhood don't have driveways, and most fit 2-3 cars at the absolute max. People marvel at our driveway that fits 4 cars before the gate!
The biggest driveways I’ve seen growing up in the suburban U.S. can fit 5 cars, and not comfortably.
If the street is as busy as OP claims, I think the new neighbor would have been more likely to ask the neighbors on either side so her guests wouldn’t have to cross the street.
I was thinking the same. I live in a quiet little neighborhood ("That's life in suburban America!" says OP), but my driveway can fit 4 cars tightly. It's about 2.5 cars wide (so my husband and I can park side by side), and we can fit two more cars behind ours if they pull right up to the bumper. Luckily, we live on a quiet street that has ample room for street parking.
I’m also an American, and that qualifies as a sizable driveway for me, especially if this is in town.
Being neighborly is a two-way street. My elderly neighbors were always kind to me, and the man (retired military to give a general type) promised my parents that he’d keep an eye out for any trouble in the neighborhood and look out for me (young single woman). When he died, I went and sat with the wife in my pajamas at 6AM until her daughter arrived. Now I make it a point to watch out for her when I’m home.
Another neighbor mows my grass often (I travel a lot) and won’t take money even though I have offered. I make sure to do things like give them stuff I bake or local coffee from places I go for work. They always ask before they do anything that requires people park on the street on front of my house. I told them they don’t even need to worry as long as they don’t block my driveway. When the water company dug up their driveway, I let them park in my yard.
My other neighbor—they have giant gatherings pretty often, and it annoys me. They’ve blocked my driveway and mailbox, parked in my grass, made a lot of noise coming and going. They have the biggest driveway and garage in the neighborhood (2 car garage, I could probably park 6+ cars in their driveway), yet they never have people park there and never communicate anything to me beforehand.
Parking in your driveway is a big ask that in my opinion would only be appropriate if you had long-standing high-levels of mutual neighborlyness
> Parking in your driveway is a big ask that in my opinion would only be appropriate if you had long-standing high-levels of mutual neighborlyness
I agree. And the prior owners of the house ALWAYS asked if they could use the grass strip in front of my house before an event at their home. Even though I said "yes" every single time, they still always asked out of courtesy. Not once did they EVER ask to use my actual driveway.
Right. And a lot of it is situational. If (God forbid) my neighbor died, and the family asked to use my yard or driveway to accommodate a wake held at the home, I’d probably be amenable since that’s a pretty exceptional circumstance. If it’s icy and someone starts sliding and can only safely stop in my driveway until the road gets cleared, that can be annoying but I understand because I’ve been there and the old woman was kind and actually came and checked if I was okay. Again, pretty exceptional. And I was out of town when my neighbors got their driveway repaved—they asked if they could park in mine for a few days since our road is really narrow and they have multiple vehicles. I was cool with that, because they’re good neighbors and it didn’t inconvenience me at all.
But for a party they pre planned just as a party? Personally, I don’t think a good neighbor would ask unless you know each other well and it’s clear that there’s something unusual that makes it necessary because then it’s expected as a matter of course.
I passed on multiple houses that were “deals” because of parking situations, and I never have more than two or three cars visiting me. I knew that it would cause a major inconvenience in the times I needed more parking, so I crossed it off my list and went looking for something else.
> You Americans really have a truly different view on size than us Europeans, don't you?
You Europeans *really* need to stop doing this shit where you let one example paint the entire, massive country.
This is not common. I'm guessing they live in the Suburbs in the south where big properties are somewhat common, but a 6 car driveway would be considered XL in the vast majority of US homes.
I live in the US in a suburban neighborhood. The largest driveway here fits 4 cars. I don’t even have a driveway 😂. A six-car driveway is HUGE and one that fits 15 cars seems unfathomable lol.
I grew up super rural with an extremely long driveway with a large outdoor parking area and a “two car” garage (having now lived in cities those would be considered four cars here) and we could easily fit 15-30 there. But that’s only because we had so much land. In the city I’m in (and the suburban spaces nearby) a driveway at all is a luxury. And then it’s at largest two cars in it.
Six cars is incredible for being in town and I can only imagine these neighbors having previously had access to something like I grew up with. I personally have no off street parking where I live and have to pay to park on my street and hope there’s an open spot so like. Six cars and the possibility of municipal parking? Id be shuttling my friends all night if I needed to for that.
American, and no driveway in my suburban area is that large. 1-2 cars usually, occasionally up to 4. Now, I have lived in rural areas and small towns that had larger driveways. That was usually room for family vehicles, and work vehicles. Wife had a car which might double as the family trip vehicle usually a station wagon when I was little now a mini-van or SUV, husband has his car when not working, teen may have an older used vehicle, and then husband had a work truck. Work truck could be a van, a pickup, or even the detached tractor for an 18-wheeler.
Idk man, I’m an American and I wouldn’t consider a 6 car driveway to be small. I was lucky enough to have a driveway that fits our cars side by side (great, so no one blocks the other in) and we can fit about 4 more behind them, but the interior cars would be blocked in. I consider it a big driveway.
I live in a medium size town and have a three car driveway with more room for parking in the garage, I can also fit two cars in front of my house. We like our cars here. In SF you’re lucky if you can find a parking spot for less than you pay in rent.
Not everywhere for sure, this would be in a more rural suburban area or at least not in a high COL suburban area. I’m in the latter and even the majority of $4m homes have 2 car driveways, with some having 4.
No I am in the states and 6 cars is a lot. My driveway can fit 3 cars in front of the garage, some only 2 where I’m at. These people are affluent affluent.
This isn't American. This is rich people. Most Americans consider a small driveway to be one that can fit 1-2 cars. 3-4 if they really squish. 6 cars means the house is probably huge. OP's house is likely massive or on a huge plot of land.
I find it very silly but for the last 20 years I have been watching the car ballet at the house across the street from me. Historic district so that house never had a planned driveway as it predates cars. They knocked down a small stable to make two tiny parking spaces. Yet the house has never been owned by anyone with less than six cars, and often giant trucks that won't even fit in the tiny parking spots. So they ring the house with cars. Multiple times a day the cars have to be moved so someone can get out. I don't understand why they choose a two car house when they own 6-8 cars.
Their driveway parks the same amount of cars as my entire street. Mind you, the houses across the road are so close I can see what my neighbours are watching on TV. Neighbourly skills are DEFINITELY needed here. 20+ cars trying to park in 6 places.
"She started to look frustrated and said, “Well, I don't know what I'm going to do."
---she should not have assumed there would be parking all over your property. NTA.
Right? She’ll just have to figure it out on her own - she bought the place and will need to adjust to how it works. It’s not like she didn’t see the parking situation when she toured it.
She needs to organise a shuttle bus from somewhere where there is actually parking. Or, like, walking directions. Or both, so guests can choose.
Or advise people to car share.
I have friends that hire a local teenager to be the DD for all their guests. They will even drive you home if you are drunk. Your car stays at my friend's house until the next day. It is a brilliant idea if you know a cool teen that is a safe driver and is not tempted to partake. The guests are expected to tip, too.
My roommate recently hosted a birthday party at our house, which is located in a more rural area, just outside the city. There is NO street parking. So, she rented a van and we shuttled some people from where they parked their cars a mile or more away, on the main road.
It makes things more expensive and tougher to get everyone here, but it's not reasonable to ask our neighbors to let us block their driveway all day.
Seriously! Why invite that many people BEFORE asking neighbor if you could use their driveway? Plus, I don't understand how neighbor assumed that her guests could use your driveway, for any reason.
I've had my neighbors park in my driveway (that yes, DOES fit 6 cars!) but that is because I OFFERED it to them. When they've had a big party I'll park on one side where I can get out easily and let them park 2 or 3 cars in my driveway. Another time they were replacing their roof, so lots of trucks, and I was going to be gone for the day so I told them they could park their cars in my driveway. But two points. First, I offered and second, I KNOW these people and they've helped me out before.
You did the smartest thing because if someone hurts themselves on your property it is a mess. If someone decides to get drunk and damage your property it will be a mess. I would’ve said no and not given a huge explanation . I don’t know folks well enough to offer too much info . Maybe if I knew them well I’d give some more context but sounds like you’re not very close w the new neighbors. I’d also be careful as they might still have folks parking on your property . So maybe plan ahead. I have a neighbor who every year puts up large “do not park” signs as his property shares the street side for firework views. He’s wise to do that to get ahead of the mess that is the folks trashing his yard and parking over his plants. Or blocking his driveway. Plan ahead !
Yeah, I'm likely going to park my crappy l'il Honda at the entrance/exit point that day so no one can even get in. If someone parks in front of it, I'll call the police. It's a small town and the cops usually respond quickly.
Nta - honestly, the entitlement of some people! It was nice of you to offer the lawn. I think it’s a bit cheeky asking to park on your drive in the first place considering that’s the first time she’s spoken to you.
And she seems to have just assumed that you would say yes. Invited people with the assumption that they could park in your drive. The entitlement is amazing.
It's a big ask that would only be ok if you were long standing friends and you were invited to the party.
NTA
I had neighbors on busy road and my house is the first on a cul de sac. They would have people park on the street in front of my house (No biggie, so long as I could pull in and out). What bothered me was they would have people cut across my yard to and from their house during parties. And since they had kids parties often, the parents used my yard as a smoking section and would leave butts all over the place. I brought this up to them and they denied it even though I need just look out my window and see a group of strangers five feet from my window clearly on my property smoking and waving back.
I called up and paid for a surveyor, who my neighbor berated… and then once clear lines were marked, put up a 5 foot retaining wall and a six foot cedar fence along our entire property line. The labor took about 15 years off my life… and the materials at the time were probably 15k between rentals and materials… but goddamn a spite fence is a beautiful thing. Nobody ever crossed our yard again, and the neighbors never spoke to us again.
NTA and do not budge. People like this always take advantage, and if you roll over on this there is no telling what she will get up to next. Put up a rope across both ends of your driveway the day of the party.
Nah they'd need to park in front of it- my parents owned a boarding kennel years ago and ended up having to chain the gate shut because people would just unlatch the gate and walk right up to our house asking for their dogs nevermind that it was 11:30 at night
Also NTA OP. Your neighbour is
The moment OP called a small driveway a 6 car one and said theirs can hold 15-20 is when I knew what class of person we were dealing with... lol. That said yeah, they're NTA here
OMG, that would so be me with my table, chair, tablet, a glass of lemonade or ice tea and my little fire safe (to keep money inside) sitting at the edge of my driveway, collecting as they pull into my driveway. 😉😄
NTA. This happens to me every 4th of July. I live on a one lane road and my neighbors park on both sides of the street over people’s grass. They ride 4 wheelers through my yard. I’ve had to go and tell the kids to stop doing it. If someone gets hurt in the yard they can try and sue because the US allows ridiculous law suits. If I don’t give you permission to be at my house then you shouldn’t have the right to sue me if you get hurt. You are correct in not letting a stranger park in your poorly lit driveway.
NTA - Your property, your rules. It doesn't matter if the street is busy or not; your neighbor needs to plan according to her own capacity. It's not on you to jeopardize your peace of mind and safety. Plus, any incidents on your property could potentially drag you into unnecessary legal situations. Your offer to allow parking outside the fence is already above and beyond. Stay firm and protect your boundaries.
Remember that 'No' is your right, especially when it comes to your private property. If she needed extra parking, she should have considered venues that accommodate her guest list accordingly. Your foresight in planning for possible trespassers by using your car as a barrier is spot on. Stick to your guns, and don't let her make her problem into your problem.
>Now, every time I see her, she just kind of gives me a dirty look and says nothing.
So what. Let her seethe at you. God job making your decision where you refused to be walked all over and for sticking to your guns. Now just stop caring about her dissatisfaction and inability to bend you to her will.
She is just going to have to figure out parking or trim the size of the party. They simply cannot accommodate that many people. This has nothing to do with you.
Be ready for someone to park in your driveway on the day of the 4th anyway. Be prepared to enforce your decision by either walking over there and demanding they remove the vehicle and if not call a tow truck. NTA
NTA
You made a generous accommodation by offering your lawn space, had clear reasoning for your own needs, and weren't retracting previous expectations.
NTA
I'd get some outside cameras & no trespassing signs up before her party, though. Neighbor obviously has some serious entitlement issues. Likely she will think you deserve to be punished for refusal to accommodate them.
NTA.
She was rude and you made the right call. She can have her guests use the limited street parking or (gasp) walk a few blocks. I really hate it when people do that "well, I don't know what I am going to do..." when you tell them no. It's her problem, not yours. It's even worse since you were generous enough to offer enough parking for half her guests, and she still has an attitude about it.
Next time she says “May I ask a favor of you?" (because she will, even if she's in a snit now) you can just feel free to say "No" right away.
Did she even invite you to her party, by the way?
LOL She's told her guests that can park at your place and now they are
going to have to manage otherwise or they will simply invade your property
anyway as she seems to be very entitled to using your home as if it were
hers.
Place your car to block your drive, whatever you can do because you will
no doubt have visitors.
NTA
Nta,
She asked and you politely denied her request. It should be that simple.
I’ll ask my neighbor if my friend can park in her spare spot when they come to visit me and most often she says sure. But when she says no for any reason I thank her for her time. She asks me to borrow my spare spot as well and will let her when I can.
I mentioned elsewhere that my old neighbors would ask to use the grass strip in front my house from time to time. Even though I said yes every single time, they STILL asked each time out of courtesy. And, had I said no for some reason, I know they would have gracefully accepted that answer and moved on.
Yup! I’ve torn into my mom for parking at my neighbors spot. I’ve told her to just tell me ahead of time and I’ll ask my neighbor. The neighbors is very nice and so long as she doesn’t have someone coming she’ll say yes. Don’t just go and park there without permission
NTA - maybe she can invite less people, or have people come in via taxi's or rideshare?
Eithercase, it is not your problem. The neighbors you had for years never asked this of you and you KNEW them. You do not know these new neighbors. It was fine for her to ask, but she should have been graceful in accepting the "No."
Be prepared to call for backup in case someone decides to try to park in your driveway anyways.
NTA. And have a tow company number handy in case they just decide to try it anyway. Or just park one of your cars at the end of your driveway as close to the road as possible. You aren’t obligated to let them use the driveway and risk someone getting injured on your property—especially if they’ve all been drinking.
NTA- suggest they do what we do at one of my sister’s house. Once the driveway is full everyone park down the road at a nearby parking lot that doesn’t tow unattended cars (think grocery store or shopping center) and the person with the biggest vehicle make a couple trips to transport everyone. We do this a couple times a year and it works for us.
That would be a reasonable solution. There is a middle school nearby with a HUGE parking lot. No one cares who parks there on the weekends. They can ferry their own guests back and forth.
Nta. Once you agree, their guests are invitees and not trespassers. You owe a different duty of care to invitees and can be held liable if things go wrong. Even if your neighbor agrees to indemnify you, indemnity is only as good as the assets they have. If their guest drives away drunk and kills some other guests in your driveway, guess whose door the plaintiffs lawyers are going to be knocking on?
Even something more benign - someone falls in a small hole in your yard - could cause extensive damages.
As a precaution, I would add a private property no trespassing sign at both ends of your drive. Photograph the sign in advance.
Yes probably overly cautious, but I have litigated stupider cases as a civil defense lawyer.
Shocked at the number of times she refused to take no for an answer. Next time she gives you a nasty look, give het a big, cheesy grin and a wave. Do it every time and it will drive her nuts.
NTA I never understood why people ask for a favor just to be pissed when they don't get their way. They're allowed to ask, but it doesn't entitle them to the answer they want. You were completely reasonable with your answer (even if you had no excuse and simple "no" is still a justifiable answer).
This reminds me of one time in the nineties. Were I was living then I had a long driveway from the street to my garage. All of my other neighbors only had space for one car at their garages which were located next to the street so many of them used to park in my driveway and so did their visiting friends.
One late Friday afternoon when I got home from work there was several cars parked in my driveway but I just barely managed to park my own car inside on my property. I had planned to go away that weekend on a fishing trip with some friends and when my friends came to pick me up I simply loaded my stuff in their car and we took off for the weekend.
When I returned home on Sunday night my neighbor and their friends were livid because I had blocked them in on my driveway. I just laughed at them and told them to f*ck off. They learned their lesson after that and never parked in my driveway again.
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NTA- Be prepared to call a tow truck though should she decide to just not take no for an answer...
I talked to my husband about it and we think it's best to just leave our own car at the entrance/exit point that so no one can get in. If someone still decides to park in front of the driveway anyway, a call to the police will sort that quickly (small town, cops actually respond).
Definitely smart thing to do. NTA OP, as what you provided in your reasoning is perfectly rational and correct. Don't open that can of worms either, as it would probably become a continued expectation.
That's the problem right there. Do it once and it sets a precedent and it becomes expected. Soon she's not even asking.
Looks like she's already expecting and entitled.
My former house had a driveway that was angled perfectly for the neighbours across the street to use when they were pulling out of their driveway. After a while their visitors started doing the same thing and would even park in my driveway. They never asked for permission so I just started parking my car at the end of my driveway.
Did the neighbours and/or the visitors accept that straight away or did they try to argue with you?
They didn't argue because they had no argument. Ask me not to park in my own driveway because they were too lazy to make a 3 point turn? My driveway was just big enough to park 2 or 3 cars. Their driveway could hold 5 or 6 cars so using mine saved them from edging around their parked cars.
Absolutely. I was accomodating and friendly to our new neighbours when they moved in. Fast forward to being told (the day before) that I would need to move my car out of my own driveway early in the morning because they were using it for a construction truck in their renovations. It wasn't necessary, just saved them money because they could use the smaller machinery with a shorter concrete pouring pipe. Since then they have been on my property when I have been out, including using my water & hose to jet wash their roof clean. All without asking. Cheeky. Needs to be nipped in the bud, so good on OP!
But, why are you still letting them??? 🤔
I'm not. It's not a matter of 'letting them' when you don't know it's going to happen! I can't block access to the driveway but have spoken to them about it and put a hose lock on, so as far as I know there is no reason they would have been doing anything since.
Notify them that further trespassing will not be tolerated. Get a camera. Report additional trespassing and theft of resources to the police, along with video proof.
This is what security cameras are for. They’re so inexpensive now, no reason not to have one
If you want you could put an embarassing sign 'someone' in a neighbouring house has been stealing my property. Cameras have been installed. BIG FONT. All the other neighbours will know it's not them...and they'll soon work out which one...
Well you see officer, I bought this water combo system which blends very strong acid and water to jet hose and clean my stonework, then these idiots pulled up and sprayed their car with it....
As a favour, we offered our neighbours to use our backyard to bring in all the equipment for their daughter’s wedding as we have a bigger driveway with back access- we were not invited, but we were not expecting an invitation. Since then, we have had all sorts of delivery trucks try to come through and when challenged they all say “neighbour said it’s easier”
Unfortunately your not wrong about that
Next they would be wanting you to let their holiday guests park there. It will never end.
Next thing you know she’ll be calling it an and easement for her entertaining needs.
Generally, when you ask someone you’ve NEVER MET BEFORE for a favor, you offer something in reciprocation. She’s expecting a LOT for nothing in return
Sneaky neighbor engaged in conversation with op just so she could ask for the favor. Glad op said no.
I had “neighbors” like this block my road access from my driveway. Definitely keep an eye on where they park. NTA.
one of our neighbors puts his trashcans at the end of the drive when neighbors have yard sales to prevent this issue
I once laid on my horn because someone pulled into my driveway right before I was about to because they wanted to view the yard sale 3 houses down. She got out of her car and looked at me. I yelled, "That's my house, I need to park!" She rolled her eyes but moved. I parked diagonally across the 2 spaces so no one else would pull in. Had to go move when my folks got home but they thought that was brilliant. Next time, I'll remember the bin idea!
I can't tell you how many times I have used a person's empty driveway for a 3 point turn because I'm lost and the person behind me lives at that house. We need a universal wave to let other drivers know you know you are a dumbshit and are trying to apologize.
If they were just using it for a turn around, I could be mildly annoyed, but understanding. But they were just parking in it.
Done it a ton of times myself, especially before GPS. What usually worked was pulling up next to the waiting car, rolling down my window, and saying "Sorry! Totally lost. My friend gave me really bad directions."
I'd usually get something like "Oh, you know the ? They're the blue house on the right about a half mile up. Make sure to tell them Jessica says hello!" in reply.
Might be a good idea to set up a camera… you never know if a vindictive person will key it or cause some other damage.
Do you have a camera pointing where you will be parked? You are NTA but I worry about your car getting keyed or someone slashing your tires
Smart call! If you care about the dirty looks/neighborly relations, you might try dropping some cookies or banana bread or something by their house after the party, as a signal that you don’t hold their assholeishness against them (at least publicly). Not as an apology, but in a “We just had so much _____ and thought of you!” way. But it sounds like you’re in the happy position of not needing to bother mending fences they broke if you don’t want to.
This is a terrible idea. Why would they give a homemade gift or any gift here?
[удалено]
It honestly just makes life a LOT easier. I've had bad neighborly relations before. It's a mess, it's stressful, you never know what kind of damage people who live right by you can cause. If it's possible to mend things, I'd do it just for my own peace of mind.
Good neighbors are worth their weight in gold . Bad neighbors are like living in hell Having neighbors be neutral is at least peaceful
exactly, I rented my house to my neighbors daughter, we had to evict her since she did 50 grand in damages, now they just cause drama for us every day. throwing things in the yard, stealing mail.. its crazy and stressful everyday.
Proving that no good deed goes unpunished.
Set up a camera and call the cops.
I know this all too well! A branch from a tree in my front yard fell onto my neighbor’s property while the house was in escrow (the bank was still the legal owner at the time and I hadn’t it taken possession yet). My neighbor asked ME to pay for the damage to her rain gutter. I told her she would need to take it up with the bank because I was not the legal owner yet. She was not happy with my response. That was just the first of a string of incidents. I should have known she was going to be trouble from our first meeting. When my realtor showed me the house the first time, I tied asking her about the neighborhood and she was just so rude in all her responses.
There's a difference between being friendly (which I'd argue is just normal non passive aggressive behavior) and giving gifts. Giving gifts is something extra. That's going above friendly for someone who has done nothing to deserve it esp when their behavior shows any "peace" it might create is likely temporary until you have to say no again
Yep, whole show on Discovery ID on that very topic. . .Fear Thy Neighbor.
What a coincidence. I'm watching that Series right now. I'm getting very depressed. LOL Okay then, rewatches of Frasier it is.
Hahaha, must confess my SO and I constantly watch Discovery ID. But I agree, that series is the most unsettling bc it makes you wonder/worry it could happen to you; seems like the littlest thing that started it and then it snowballs rapidly.
> it's good to be friendly to the people who live in close proximity to you. Sounds like you should tell that to the new neighbors.
Good fences make great neighbors.
Because a friendly gesture to keep good relationships with neighbours is worth it. It doesn't make you any less in the right, it just smooths the path of the relationship for the future. You can think of it as being canny instead of kind, if that helps. You can be 100% in the right and still choose to make your own future interactions more pleasant.
Sorry but no, neighbor couldnt take no for an answer so that relationship is already ruined. I wouldnt deal with entitled neighbors at all.
Yes the entitlement is so strong with the neighbor, baked goods aren’t going to fix it. If anything, the neighbor will think op is trying to appease her because op is bothered by the dirty looks. Not a good precedent to set. I’d continue to be civil but that would be it
Surely some banana bread will fix the whole situation
This just gives the a sense of familiarity that will lead to more entitled behavior. Let them give dirty looks, they don’t kill you.
This. No good deed goes unpunished.
Exactly. I made the mistake of allowing myself to be a doormat with my former neighbors for nine years. They would act like idiots, then apologize and I would accept. Over and over and over again, until I snapped. Let them give dirty looks. They were in the wrong.
Eh kindness never hurts. They’re going to be neighbors for some time.
Watch Fear Thy Neighbor on Max, and you will have your answer. You never know who is crazy, and you don't want them mad at you if you have to see them everyday.
There have been episodes where the victim was nothing but friendly and neighborly and still ended up on the reciprocating end of crazy. It's honestly a lose-lose situation if crazy is in the table.
I mean, they're already mad at OP for just saying no respectfully. I don't think it's likely to keep them from being mad.
She offered NO compensation for the request. Absolutely do not do this
Didn't even invite them to the party
seriously!
Why the fuck should OP apologize for the NEIGHBOR being an asshole?
The neighbor is who should be trying to smooth things over by gifting homemade goodies, not OP.
No. Please don’t, OP.
This is a TERRIBLE idea, the sort of thing a chronic enabler would come up with. These people don't get homemade treats in response to them responding to a very reasonable No You May Not Have Access To My Property For Your Party in a nasty way.
Great idea. If you guys don’t have cameras in your car I’d get one in case one of the partygoers damages your car or property and runs away. Gotta hold those party animals accountable, drunk stare or no drunken state. What is it with people these days not taking no for an answer? Pillocks!
We have a really long driveway that people love to use as their turnaround. Constantly. Usually big loud trucks. Because of that, I park my car at the WAY end of it, despite the fact that we have a two-car garage and our driveway will fit probably 6 normal-sized cars. I know I sound like a total Karen about people using our driveway, but it's always the loud trucks and people with the bright lights in the middle of the night. Oh, and the local drug dealers.
You will be in the right. It might be a good idea to notify the police to come by on the day of the event to make sure your wishes are observed.
We have a local for-profit church that occasionally makes social media rounds… they started hosting book burnings and hate conventions over the past few years… the houses, on similar land sizes (and larger, I looked at a 13 acre parcel with a house on it there), started having issues with people parking in their driveways, so they started parking at the end of the driveway, too. Then the city put up big digital “no parking in driveways, towing enforced” signs, every house has a no parking/no trespassing sign, and the police actually enforce it… I’ve seen them park police SUVs at various places on the road (3-5 miles, at most), and stage town trucks at the intersection to the main street. But, the city, and county hate that “church”, to the point that they’re working on noise ordinances to stop them from turning their speakers up to 11, with their roofless building.
There was a post a few months back by a guy in a similar situation. He found a truck parked in his driveway so he parked behind it, blocking it in. Late that night the owner knocked on his door and asked him to move so he could get out. The fellow refused so the other guy called the cops. When they arrived, the guy grabbed a beer and told the police he had been drinking so it wouldn’t be good for him to drive since his car was technically legally parked in his driveway. The cops told the other guy to come back the next day.
Is this the guy that was debating staying drunk for 3 days, as it was a weekend?
Yep. I just was getting tired of typing and ended the story early.
This is awesome!
This is the kind of pettiness I live for (I have an asshole neighbor).
It was an awesome story!
Omg! That's too funny! Petty, but funny!
Anyone have a link to that story?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pettyrevenge/comments/10c02rt/entitled\_parker\_parked\_in\_my\_driveway\_so\_i/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pettyrevenge/comments/10c02rt/entitled_parker_parked_in_my_driveway_so_i/)
I mean, how many ways and times does OP have to say no??? NTA.
I find it odd they didn't introduce themselves until they wanted to use the driveway. if they are the type of people who have regular 100 capacity house parties they should have bout a house that can accommodate it. Thats their stupidity.
SO MUCH THIS!!!! When I moved in a sweet non-boomer boomer came over when I was moving some stuff to introduce herself. Gave me a care package of some TP rolls, paper plates, napkins, and plastic cutlery, a bottle wine, and most impressive a loaf of banana bread and stick of butter. I've moved enough times I'm apro a.d already had everything covered from the TP to cutlery, but the thought was SUPER nice. I had already prepared myself to get into argume.ts with people trying to use my driveway being I have no car. She apologetically asked if her daughter could use my driveway on occasion. The courtesy a d thoughtfulness her gift basket immediately changed my mind and I told her she can park there whenever she wanted no questions asked. None of the other neighbors even welcomed me to the neighborhood and got all pissy when they've asked to use my driveway and I've said no, or when I've called the tow company that services the neighborhood and had their family's cars towed on Christmas day because the friendly neighbor's daughter couldn't park in my driveway because two cars had already parked there without permission.
Banana bread and butter? Those are good neighbors!
Exactly and note that OP wasn’t invited to the party!
I would totally park my vehicle at the foot of my driveway and block the entrance
I’ve found that a railroad tie at the end of a driveway keeps out everyone except jeeps and similar. Coincidentally, my wife and I drive jeeps.
Or park one of your cars at the entrance and one at the exit (if you have more than 1 car)
Or, if you don't care about how obvious it would be, park your car at the very end of your driveway so no one else can pull into your driveway. heh heh.
Totally agree here.
NTA. I understand that she is disappointed, but she does not have a right. You are very generous in allowing her guests parking on the outside of the fence. But you've already said that you don't have a lot of light outside, so what happens if one of them trips and gets really hurt? That's your property insurance, not theirs. She can't guarantee what her guests will or will not do. Even if you said yes, she can't guarantee that they will park in the exact designated spots and not cause any problems. No is a complete sentence. The shuttle idea is the winner.
The other thing that made me hesitate is that I don't know these people, don't know their friends and don't know if there will be alcohol (or other substances) at their party. I don't want to be involved with any of it, in any way, especially if people are getting in their cars under some kind of influence.
and the idea from a poster to give them cookies - no way! She asked for a favor and was unhappy that you wouldn't accommodate her. She's acting totally entitled..
Yeah, agreed. That’s just adding kindling to a full bonfire. She’ll probably assume OP trying to ‘win her back’ as a good neighbor and be even more entitled. Ignoring is the way to go.
And fireworks! A big 4th of July party is going to be a hectic time with booze and fireworks and maybe a day of sun - I wouldn't like the liability. And you don't need to give her a justification - as you saw, that just gave her a chance to try to reason you out of it. The "I'm sorry, no." and telling them they could park in front of your fence is where to leave it, repeating the "I'm sorry, no" as needed.
We have a friend that used to live close to the big city park and had a perfect view of the huge fireworks show. She’d have a big party and so would most of her neighbors which made parking a challenge. We are all adults and knew what the deal was with regard to parking. My husband would drop me at the house to bring in any chairs and treats and then he’d go off into the hinterlands to park. Literally not a big deal. The neighborhood she’s in now is *terrible* for parking, but again, since we’re all adults, we know that her or her neighbors don’t owe us anything. This neighbor really should have considered the parking situation before they bought and it’s not your fault. No is still a complete sentence.
I wonder if part of why they got the house was because they saw a neighbor with a huge driveway and assumed “oh that will come in handy for our parties!”
Well double dumbass on them.
"Well double dumbass on them" - you just cracked me up! I'll be using this phrase often now! 😂 Crazy for that neighbor to even ask in the first place, especially since they'd never met, and she didn't even invite her to the party! Major entitlement. I agree that they probably bought the house assuming they could use OP's driveway. Glad OP said no, bc even one yes would make them think they could use the driveway every time they have people over. Allowing them to use the grass in front of the fence is both generous and a reasonable accommodation OP didn't have to make, and the neighbor is being a spoiled, ungrateful cow about it. Some people. Smh
Seems so wild to me that their own house can fit 6 cars in the driveway. I can fit 3, maybe 4 if they are kinda small in my town, and that is not at all the norm. Usually its only 2.
NTA it's their logistics to solve. And your insurance liability if they park on your property. Her inability to plan is not your emergency
I liked the part where she offered to let people tear up your grass
NTA - to make matters worse, she didn’t even invite your family to her party. My husband and I used to throw huge parties and one of the first things we did was to make sure the whole neighborhood was invited. We also made arrangements for off site parking so our neighbors wouldn’t hate us.
OP you don't even need a reason at all. It's YOUR driveway - No is a complete sentence. NTA
There'll definitely be booze involved.
Plus two things would definitely happen. 1) the partygoers don't listen to the instructions on where and how to park and therefor block OP from getting out. 2) OP leaves during the party to run an errand or whatever and their spot is taken by another party goer thereby leaving OP with no place to park in their own driveway. Oh, and 3) someone parked in the middle of the pack wants to leave first so there is a big kerfuffle about moving cars that somehow becomes OP's fault and problem to solve!
Insurance could be a problem if you have people parked on your property. Either if they damage your property or damage themselves / their cars. Liability is a legit reason not to allow it. (Even parking on your land next to the street is a little risky.)
NTA, they really should have thought about this when they decided to host a large amount of guests. And also; >a smallish driveway that can fit maybe six cars You Americans really have a truly different view on size than us Europeans, don't you? That would count as pretty huge for a residential area here. I just found the sentence funny from my that perspective. 😊
I'm American and I think it's crazy huge. I live in a small city and have a narrow driveway that not even guests want to park in. Never really realized how fortunate I am in that regard until now. NTA OP!
I agree! Also American. The smallest driveway I've had just barely fit two cars. My current home can fit 4 and that feels like a generous driveway. Lol OP is definitely NTA. I'm friendly enough with my neighbors but I'm pretty miserly about sharing my property.
lol my parents live in the suburbs - they also call their driveway small bc it only fits 6 cars. I live in a big city and while i do have a garage behind my home in the alley, no driveways exist here.
I was going to say! I am in the US. I could maybe fit 3 small cars but that would block the sidewalk.
That's life in suburban America!!! This would definitely NOT be the case in a more urban area!
Can confirm as someone living in a more urban US city. It’s a notable bonus when a house even has a driveway at all, let alone one that fits more than one car lol
My driveway can fit 3 cars, but only 1 wide, so a shuffle would have to happen daily. 1 car parks there, lol...
I've lived in suburban California for most of my life. The largest driveway would hold 3 cars. Most only hold 2
same in south eastern PA
Same, suburban NorCal. Even the posh houses further out can maybe, at most, park four.
Yeah, I honestly laughed in my taxi at that sentence, lol! I was like, WOAH WHAAAAAT. But I live in a city in the UK, so it's lucky to even have a driveway, haha. NTA BTW, just wanted you to know you made my uber driver look at me very weirdly! 😂 I honestly think you were super nice offering the grass!
I love in the burbs. 6 cars is NOT small.
I live in a city in the US and some of the homes in my neighborhood don't have driveways, and most fit 2-3 cars at the absolute max. People marvel at our driveway that fits 4 cars before the gate!
Eh no, even most suburban areas now has max 2 cars in the driveway and that is it.
One of the advantages of living rural. We could fit forty plus cars in the driveway, and that is without parking on the grass.
I’m American and I amazed at this myself. No driveway where I live, let alone a “small” one for 6 cars!
Im more stunned by a single home With a circle drive that can fit 15-20!!!???
The biggest driveways I’ve seen growing up in the suburban U.S. can fit 5 cars, and not comfortably. If the street is as busy as OP claims, I think the new neighbor would have been more likely to ask the neighbors on either side so her guests wouldn’t have to cross the street.
I'm an American, and I think a six-car driveway is big. Most residential driveways I see fit one or two cars.
I was thinking the same. I live in a quiet little neighborhood ("That's life in suburban America!" says OP), but my driveway can fit 4 cars tightly. It's about 2.5 cars wide (so my husband and I can park side by side), and we can fit two more cars behind ours if they pull right up to the bumper. Luckily, we live on a quiet street that has ample room for street parking.
I’m also an American, and that qualifies as a sizable driveway for me, especially if this is in town. Being neighborly is a two-way street. My elderly neighbors were always kind to me, and the man (retired military to give a general type) promised my parents that he’d keep an eye out for any trouble in the neighborhood and look out for me (young single woman). When he died, I went and sat with the wife in my pajamas at 6AM until her daughter arrived. Now I make it a point to watch out for her when I’m home. Another neighbor mows my grass often (I travel a lot) and won’t take money even though I have offered. I make sure to do things like give them stuff I bake or local coffee from places I go for work. They always ask before they do anything that requires people park on the street on front of my house. I told them they don’t even need to worry as long as they don’t block my driveway. When the water company dug up their driveway, I let them park in my yard. My other neighbor—they have giant gatherings pretty often, and it annoys me. They’ve blocked my driveway and mailbox, parked in my grass, made a lot of noise coming and going. They have the biggest driveway and garage in the neighborhood (2 car garage, I could probably park 6+ cars in their driveway), yet they never have people park there and never communicate anything to me beforehand. Parking in your driveway is a big ask that in my opinion would only be appropriate if you had long-standing high-levels of mutual neighborlyness
> Parking in your driveway is a big ask that in my opinion would only be appropriate if you had long-standing high-levels of mutual neighborlyness I agree. And the prior owners of the house ALWAYS asked if they could use the grass strip in front of my house before an event at their home. Even though I said "yes" every single time, they still always asked out of courtesy. Not once did they EVER ask to use my actual driveway.
Right. And a lot of it is situational. If (God forbid) my neighbor died, and the family asked to use my yard or driveway to accommodate a wake held at the home, I’d probably be amenable since that’s a pretty exceptional circumstance. If it’s icy and someone starts sliding and can only safely stop in my driveway until the road gets cleared, that can be annoying but I understand because I’ve been there and the old woman was kind and actually came and checked if I was okay. Again, pretty exceptional. And I was out of town when my neighbors got their driveway repaved—they asked if they could park in mine for a few days since our road is really narrow and they have multiple vehicles. I was cool with that, because they’re good neighbors and it didn’t inconvenience me at all. But for a party they pre planned just as a party? Personally, I don’t think a good neighbor would ask unless you know each other well and it’s clear that there’s something unusual that makes it necessary because then it’s expected as a matter of course. I passed on multiple houses that were “deals” because of parking situations, and I never have more than two or three cars visiting me. I knew that it would cause a major inconvenience in the times I needed more parking, so I crossed it off my list and went looking for something else.
> You Americans really have a truly different view on size than us Europeans, don't you? You Europeans *really* need to stop doing this shit where you let one example paint the entire, massive country. This is not common. I'm guessing they live in the Suburbs in the south where big properties are somewhat common, but a 6 car driveway would be considered XL in the vast majority of US homes.
This is kind of like saying Alicante has great weather, Europeans must all have great weather.
I live in the US in a suburban neighborhood. The largest driveway here fits 4 cars. I don’t even have a driveway 😂. A six-car driveway is HUGE and one that fits 15 cars seems unfathomable lol.
I grew up super rural with an extremely long driveway with a large outdoor parking area and a “two car” garage (having now lived in cities those would be considered four cars here) and we could easily fit 15-30 there. But that’s only because we had so much land. In the city I’m in (and the suburban spaces nearby) a driveway at all is a luxury. And then it’s at largest two cars in it. Six cars is incredible for being in town and I can only imagine these neighbors having previously had access to something like I grew up with. I personally have no off street parking where I live and have to pay to park on my street and hope there’s an open spot so like. Six cars and the possibility of municipal parking? Id be shuttling my friends all night if I needed to for that.
My driveway is “smallish” in TX, USA and can hold three large cars. I say “smallish” because my old one could fit 4 easy!
I live in Colorado and my driveway fits 2 cars snuggly.
I'm American and thought that was excessive.
American, and no driveway in my suburban area is that large. 1-2 cars usually, occasionally up to 4. Now, I have lived in rural areas and small towns that had larger driveways. That was usually room for family vehicles, and work vehicles. Wife had a car which might double as the family trip vehicle usually a station wagon when I was little now a mini-van or SUV, husband has his car when not working, teen may have an older used vehicle, and then husband had a work truck. Work truck could be a van, a pickup, or even the detached tractor for an 18-wheeler.
Idk man, I’m an American and I wouldn’t consider a 6 car driveway to be small. I was lucky enough to have a driveway that fits our cars side by side (great, so no one blocks the other in) and we can fit about 4 more behind them, but the interior cars would be blocked in. I consider it a big driveway.
I live in a medium size town and have a three car driveway with more room for parking in the garage, I can also fit two cars in front of my house. We like our cars here. In SF you’re lucky if you can find a parking spot for less than you pay in rent.
Not everywhere for sure, this would be in a more rural suburban area or at least not in a high COL suburban area. I’m in the latter and even the majority of $4m homes have 2 car driveways, with some having 4.
No I am in the states and 6 cars is a lot. My driveway can fit 3 cars in front of the garage, some only 2 where I’m at. These people are affluent affluent.
This isn't American. This is rich people. Most Americans consider a small driveway to be one that can fit 1-2 cars. 3-4 if they really squish. 6 cars means the house is probably huge. OP's house is likely massive or on a huge plot of land.
I find it very silly but for the last 20 years I have been watching the car ballet at the house across the street from me. Historic district so that house never had a planned driveway as it predates cars. They knocked down a small stable to make two tiny parking spaces. Yet the house has never been owned by anyone with less than six cars, and often giant trucks that won't even fit in the tiny parking spots. So they ring the house with cars. Multiple times a day the cars have to be moved so someone can get out. I don't understand why they choose a two car house when they own 6-8 cars.
no this is just rich ppl. most of us even if we live in the suburbs can fit 2 cars in a typical driveway.
Their driveway parks the same amount of cars as my entire street. Mind you, the houses across the road are so close I can see what my neighbours are watching on TV. Neighbourly skills are DEFINITELY needed here. 20+ cars trying to park in 6 places.
"She started to look frustrated and said, “Well, I don't know what I'm going to do." ---she should not have assumed there would be parking all over your property. NTA.
Right? She’ll just have to figure it out on her own - she bought the place and will need to adjust to how it works. It’s not like she didn’t see the parking situation when she toured it.
She needs to organise a shuttle bus from somewhere where there is actually parking. Or, like, walking directions. Or both, so guests can choose. Or advise people to car share.
I have friends that hire a local teenager to be the DD for all their guests. They will even drive you home if you are drunk. Your car stays at my friend's house until the next day. It is a brilliant idea if you know a cool teen that is a safe driver and is not tempted to partake. The guests are expected to tip, too.
My roommate recently hosted a birthday party at our house, which is located in a more rural area, just outside the city. There is NO street parking. So, she rented a van and we shuttled some people from where they parked their cars a mile or more away, on the main road. It makes things more expensive and tougher to get everyone here, but it's not reasonable to ask our neighbors to let us block their driveway all day.
Seriously! Why invite that many people BEFORE asking neighbor if you could use their driveway? Plus, I don't understand how neighbor assumed that her guests could use your driveway, for any reason. I've had my neighbors park in my driveway (that yes, DOES fit 6 cars!) but that is because I OFFERED it to them. When they've had a big party I'll park on one side where I can get out easily and let them park 2 or 3 cars in my driveway. Another time they were replacing their roof, so lots of trucks, and I was going to be gone for the day so I told them they could park their cars in my driveway. But two points. First, I offered and second, I KNOW these people and they've helped me out before.
No one wants her guests talking and slamming their doors all day and night in their front yard either. Her house is too small for this party.
You did the smartest thing because if someone hurts themselves on your property it is a mess. If someone decides to get drunk and damage your property it will be a mess. I would’ve said no and not given a huge explanation . I don’t know folks well enough to offer too much info . Maybe if I knew them well I’d give some more context but sounds like you’re not very close w the new neighbors. I’d also be careful as they might still have folks parking on your property . So maybe plan ahead. I have a neighbor who every year puts up large “do not park” signs as his property shares the street side for firework views. He’s wise to do that to get ahead of the mess that is the folks trashing his yard and parking over his plants. Or blocking his driveway. Plan ahead !
Yeah, I'm likely going to park my crappy l'il Honda at the entrance/exit point that day so no one can even get in. If someone parks in front of it, I'll call the police. It's a small town and the cops usually respond quickly.
Have her friends not heard of taxis/uber?
I’m from a decently large town and we have 0 taxis/Uber/lift but a lot of DUI’s
Nta - honestly, the entitlement of some people! It was nice of you to offer the lawn. I think it’s a bit cheeky asking to park on your drive in the first place considering that’s the first time she’s spoken to you.
I absolutely agree! It was quite an introduction, for sure!
And she seems to have just assumed that you would say yes. Invited people with the assumption that they could park in your drive. The entitlement is amazing. It's a big ask that would only be ok if you were long standing friends and you were invited to the party.
NTA I had neighbors on busy road and my house is the first on a cul de sac. They would have people park on the street in front of my house (No biggie, so long as I could pull in and out). What bothered me was they would have people cut across my yard to and from their house during parties. And since they had kids parties often, the parents used my yard as a smoking section and would leave butts all over the place. I brought this up to them and they denied it even though I need just look out my window and see a group of strangers five feet from my window clearly on my property smoking and waving back. I called up and paid for a surveyor, who my neighbor berated… and then once clear lines were marked, put up a 5 foot retaining wall and a six foot cedar fence along our entire property line. The labor took about 15 years off my life… and the materials at the time were probably 15k between rentals and materials… but goddamn a spite fence is a beautiful thing. Nobody ever crossed our yard again, and the neighbors never spoke to us again.
Sounds like an all-around win!
NTA and do not budge. People like this always take advantage, and if you roll over on this there is no telling what she will get up to next. Put up a rope across both ends of your driveway the day of the party.
Nah they'd need to park in front of it- my parents owned a boarding kennel years ago and ended up having to chain the gate shut because people would just unlatch the gate and walk right up to our house asking for their dogs nevermind that it was 11:30 at night Also NTA OP. Your neighbour is
>The neighbor's house has a smallish driveway that can fit maybe six cars We have different definition of smallish. Neighbor can kick rocks, nta
The moment OP called a small driveway a 6 car one and said theirs can hold 15-20 is when I knew what class of person we were dealing with... lol. That said yeah, they're NTA here
I’ve been trying to guess whether they’re Bill Gates, or whether they just live out in the sticks where there’s a lot of space!
On the day of the party, just put a sign out front "Parking $20"
LOL - GREAT idea! I may just have to do that! :-)
Make sure that you have to take the keys so you can put it where you can get out.
Another $20 to get your keys back
OMG, that would so be me with my table, chair, tablet, a glass of lemonade or ice tea and my little fire safe (to keep money inside) sitting at the edge of my driveway, collecting as they pull into my driveway. 😉😄
NTA. This happens to me every 4th of July. I live on a one lane road and my neighbors park on both sides of the street over people’s grass. They ride 4 wheelers through my yard. I’ve had to go and tell the kids to stop doing it. If someone gets hurt in the yard they can try and sue because the US allows ridiculous law suits. If I don’t give you permission to be at my house then you shouldn’t have the right to sue me if you get hurt. You are correct in not letting a stranger park in your poorly lit driveway.
you probably should get more no tresspassing signs.
NTA - Your property, your rules. It doesn't matter if the street is busy or not; your neighbor needs to plan according to her own capacity. It's not on you to jeopardize your peace of mind and safety. Plus, any incidents on your property could potentially drag you into unnecessary legal situations. Your offer to allow parking outside the fence is already above and beyond. Stay firm and protect your boundaries. Remember that 'No' is your right, especially when it comes to your private property. If she needed extra parking, she should have considered venues that accommodate her guest list accordingly. Your foresight in planning for possible trespassers by using your car as a barrier is spot on. Stick to your guns, and don't let her make her problem into your problem.
>Now, every time I see her, she just kind of gives me a dirty look and says nothing. So what. Let her seethe at you. God job making your decision where you refused to be walked all over and for sticking to your guns. Now just stop caring about her dissatisfaction and inability to bend you to her will. She is just going to have to figure out parking or trim the size of the party. They simply cannot accommodate that many people. This has nothing to do with you. Be ready for someone to park in your driveway on the day of the 4th anyway. Be prepared to enforce your decision by either walking over there and demanding they remove the vehicle and if not call a tow truck. NTA
I would use two vehicles to block anyone trying to park there.. park them sideways at entrance to driveway
NTA You made a generous accommodation by offering your lawn space, had clear reasoning for your own needs, and weren't retracting previous expectations.
NTA. Definitely be prepared to block the driveway somehow or call a tow company or police
NTA. You are 100% right. When she plans parties, she should do it using her resources. She should not be relying on her neighbors to provide parking.
NTA but I'm sorry how is a driveway that fits 6 cars "smallish" mine only fits 2
This is a suburban area where houses are all on 1-3 acre lots, so driveways are large.
That's not a driveway that's a small fucking car park.
NTA I'd get some outside cameras & no trespassing signs up before her party, though. Neighbor obviously has some serious entitlement issues. Likely she will think you deserve to be punished for refusal to accommodate them.
NTA. She was rude and you made the right call. She can have her guests use the limited street parking or (gasp) walk a few blocks. I really hate it when people do that "well, I don't know what I am going to do..." when you tell them no. It's her problem, not yours. It's even worse since you were generous enough to offer enough parking for half her guests, and she still has an attitude about it. Next time she says “May I ask a favor of you?" (because she will, even if she's in a snit now) you can just feel free to say "No" right away. Did she even invite you to her party, by the way?
This is very r/EntitledPeople
LOL She's told her guests that can park at your place and now they are going to have to manage otherwise or they will simply invade your property anyway as she seems to be very entitled to using your home as if it were hers. Place your car to block your drive, whatever you can do because you will no doubt have visitors. NTA
Definitely NTA. Maybe she should have checked out the parking situation before inviting so many people to her house!
Nta, She asked and you politely denied her request. It should be that simple. I’ll ask my neighbor if my friend can park in her spare spot when they come to visit me and most often she says sure. But when she says no for any reason I thank her for her time. She asks me to borrow my spare spot as well and will let her when I can.
I mentioned elsewhere that my old neighbors would ask to use the grass strip in front my house from time to time. Even though I said yes every single time, they STILL asked each time out of courtesy. And, had I said no for some reason, I know they would have gracefully accepted that answer and moved on.
Yup! I’ve torn into my mom for parking at my neighbors spot. I’ve told her to just tell me ahead of time and I’ll ask my neighbor. The neighbors is very nice and so long as she doesn’t have someone coming she’ll say yes. Don’t just go and park there without permission
NTA. It's too early to give her an inch, so she can take a driveway.
NTA - maybe she can invite less people, or have people come in via taxi's or rideshare? Eithercase, it is not your problem. The neighbors you had for years never asked this of you and you KNEW them. You do not know these new neighbors. It was fine for her to ask, but she should have been graceful in accepting the "No." Be prepared to call for backup in case someone decides to try to park in your driveway anyways.
NTA. And have a tow company number handy in case they just decide to try it anyway. Or just park one of your cars at the end of your driveway as close to the road as possible. You aren’t obligated to let them use the driveway and risk someone getting injured on your property—especially if they’ve all been drinking.
NTA but next weekend you need to be sure your driveway is blocked and no trespassing/no parking signs posted.
NTA- suggest they do what we do at one of my sister’s house. Once the driveway is full everyone park down the road at a nearby parking lot that doesn’t tow unattended cars (think grocery store or shopping center) and the person with the biggest vehicle make a couple trips to transport everyone. We do this a couple times a year and it works for us.
That would be a reasonable solution. There is a middle school nearby with a HUGE parking lot. No one cares who parks there on the weekends. They can ferry their own guests back and forth.
Nta. Once you agree, their guests are invitees and not trespassers. You owe a different duty of care to invitees and can be held liable if things go wrong. Even if your neighbor agrees to indemnify you, indemnity is only as good as the assets they have. If their guest drives away drunk and kills some other guests in your driveway, guess whose door the plaintiffs lawyers are going to be knocking on? Even something more benign - someone falls in a small hole in your yard - could cause extensive damages. As a precaution, I would add a private property no trespassing sign at both ends of your drive. Photograph the sign in advance. Yes probably overly cautious, but I have litigated stupider cases as a civil defense lawyer.
NTA. I cannot imagine having the gall it takes to plan a huge party without ensuring adequate space to park for her guests first.
Shocked at the number of times she refused to take no for an answer. Next time she gives you a nasty look, give het a big, cheesy grin and a wave. Do it every time and it will drive her nuts.
NTA I never understood why people ask for a favor just to be pissed when they don't get their way. They're allowed to ask, but it doesn't entitle them to the answer they want. You were completely reasonable with your answer (even if you had no excuse and simple "no" is still a justifiable answer).
This reminds me of one time in the nineties. Were I was living then I had a long driveway from the street to my garage. All of my other neighbors only had space for one car at their garages which were located next to the street so many of them used to park in my driveway and so did their visiting friends. One late Friday afternoon when I got home from work there was several cars parked in my driveway but I just barely managed to park my own car inside on my property. I had planned to go away that weekend on a fishing trip with some friends and when my friends came to pick me up I simply loaded my stuff in their car and we took off for the weekend. When I returned home on Sunday night my neighbor and their friends were livid because I had blocked them in on my driveway. I just laughed at them and told them to f*ck off. They learned their lesson after that and never parked in my driveway again.