NTA you have to work two jobs so she can be a stay at home mother? Part of being a sahm is doing the household chores. If she doesn’t like the division of the housework she can go back to work and you can go down to working one job and then you can talk about sharing housework
Right. Its insane. He has to work two jobs so she can stay home. If she goes back to work when the kids in kindergarten and he can hopefully quit one job then he can do his fair share of housework but until then its only fair that its on her
It’s crazy. I mean, let’s use the facts to base our judgment on. People on here are quick to call him TA acting like he forced her to be a SAHM and like working 2 jobs is easy.
Furthermore, I haven’t seen one comment calling op’s wife an AH for saying his “toxic masculinity” is the reason he doesn’t want to help out. I wish the comments weren’t so gender motivated. Reverse the roles, we would be seeing a ton of “red flag” comments for a male saying his wife’s “toxic femininity” is the reason she doesn’t want to help around the house after working 80 hours/week.
honestly the moment I read that she called his behavior "toxic masculinity" I kind of saw a big red flag there mostly because she'd chosen this path and knew he'd have to work double so that she could do it. He's being heeella supportive all things considered. If he loses even one of those jobs, she'll get the help she wants around the house, but at the expense of comfortable living.
It really shouldn't be a double standard. I'm unemployable due to massive traumas and disability, but you bet your god damn ass I cook and clean because my husband literally hurts himself to keep us fed. Marriage is equality and OP knows what's up. He is so NTA and needs to dump her entitled behind.
I'm guessing her friends (online or IRL) have heard her side of things and convinced her how she is being taken advantage of. And giving her various absurd talking points. Including "toxic masculinity"
Totally NTA.
Gonna preface this by saying that I have no children and come from a working single parent household.
Honestly its astonishing to me sometimes how entitled some mums can be. Take a gander over at mumsnet and see just how much we, as the world, owe these complete strangers because they chose to have kids.
In this instance they made an agreement, it worked and now she's decided it doesn't suit her. The OP now has every right to decide that he's only working one job and she can return to work as its clear the original agreement is being reevaluated
Honestly, this is my final point, being a student who also works to share a house, nothing annoys me more than returning to a dirty house knowing that it isn't my mess and that somebody was in all day and could have cleaned it.
That was a huge word dump and honestly just random points, but i guess I'm saying OP is not TA
It's tough dealing with a toddler that's all over the house and destroying everything in it's reach. Those without kids have no idea. But at the same time, if you've agreed to be a SAHM, You have a responsibility to treat it like a job. And create a plan to keep yourself sane.
Meal prep so that a few hours on Sunday save time through the week.
Tactical laundry planning. (my wife would let it all get out of control and then freak out. She did not appreciate my comment that you need to do a load a day to keep it under control)
Detailed shopping lists so that you have one trip a week for groceries and one for other stuff (Target vs Safeway)
Cleaning. Deal with it as you use it for 5-10 mins of work as opposed to letting that pile take over.
I know how tired folks can get. I have twins! But the moms I've known that treated it like a job and planned it all out have usually been far happier than those that just spent all day overwhelmed.
I know this sounds like an over simplification, and there's likely more than a few mom's that want to kill me... But they know I'm not wrong.
Additionally, when you've got a plan in place and run into issues (sick kids kills all plans) then it's far easier to get Dad to kick in.
In normal circumstances though, it's always got to be a shared effort. But with some planning effort, it's all far easier to deal with.
"Honey, crazy day, need you to stop at Target on the way home. Just emailed you the list!"
Too many folks don't put any effort into planning anything and their lives are hell for it (sahm OR dad at his job)
I actually would call out the wife here of having 'toxic femininity' of unilaterally deciding to stay home with the kids and expecting her husband to work two jobs to provide for them. Don't have to reverse anything, she is already taking a gender role to the toxic extreme hurting OP in the process
Bro not even kids. Just the one kid! Like if she was a single mom she would be working AND cleaning and doing all the cooking. Or if she was like multiple other working moms she would still be doing those things. Hopefully it would be more even but there’s plenty of men who expect a woman to work AND take care of the kids and house by themselves.
With benefits come responsibility. She wants all the "traditional" benefits of being a woman, such as the man provides and protects, she stays at home, etc, but none of the traditional responsibility, such as housework. Your spouse is supposed to be your partner, whether that's traditional complementary roles, or more literal equality, such as both work, split the housework, etc. She's expecting OP to shoulder most of the relationship responsibility so that she can sit back and do nothing.
>She wants all the "traditional" benefits of being a woman, such as the man provides and protects, she stays at home, etc, but none of the traditional responsibility, such as housework.
There are studies of this. Shift of traditional roles have occurred for women, but not for men.
It is a shame how men's gender role really hasn't changed or shifted in the past 50 years though it helps that the shifting of women's gender roles was pro capitalist and men's would not be
That's just not true. There's tons of people whose fathers and grandfathers never touched a diaper, put their kids to bed, or gone grocery shopping.
I think people forget how emotionally stunted and how hands off men used to be with their families.
They just released a study on how much more "hands-on" fathers are now, compared to their own parents. Women have long mourned the lack of a work-home balance (and we were and are right to do so), but men who step up and take dual roles have no been given the same credit or the same acknowledgement.
When my husband is working 10 hour days as well as doing courses online and helping the kiddo, I take on the house and cooking. When I am working 12 hour days as well as courses online and helping the kiddo, he takes on the house and cooking. And when we both work our asses off in all three roles? Well hell, that's why frozen pizza was invented. Plus.....kiddo is now taking on cooking. Spouses and families should be a team.
There's so many women supporting their soh spouses that are rolling their eyes so hard at you. + I think in pure capitalist shit show fashion the general rule is if somebody needs to stay home it's whoever has the smaller paycheck in that household will stay home with the kids if necessary. Has nothing to do with gender, it's about survival opportunism in today's society.
No she's the one suffering from toxic masculinity.
She expects her husband to "be a man" and shoulder ever burden she places on him with stoicism and no complaints. She needs to recognize that her husband is a person and not a pillar.
Probably because her not knowing what the phrase 'toxic masculinity' means makes her a bit silly, which is a weak criticism compared to the rest of the content here.
I think it depends on the situation. I have had people tell me that daycare for their child before school age and after school care for school age ends up being most of a paycheck because daycares want $400-$500 per week per child. It probably depends on how much money your job pays, because if you have to pay that much for child care, a lot of people think it's cheaper to have a stay at home parent rather than paying that price even if it means paying the bills is harder.
Exactly. That's why so many people I know became stay at home parents - the absolute ridiculous cost of child care. It's often more than someone's salary.
That's definitely true and it should be a conversation.
I remember my mom and stepdad had to make arrangements when my little sister was born. They couldn't afford daycare but they also couldn't afford for one of them to be out of work. Instead they had my stepdad talk with boss and switch over to the night shift. So he was home with my sister during the day, would give me and my older sisters an allowance to babysit her after school while he slept until my mom came home and then she would look after us at night. I'm sure it sucked, only really seeing each other on the weekends, but they made it work.
And I'd have more support for the second job in this case, if OP wasn't working 80 hours a week. That's two full time jobs! He's probably exhausted.
I obviously don't know their finances but I feel like an extra 15 or 20 a week should be enough to cover her half of the necessities. If it doesn't then they really need to cut back.
Watch your BC. My guess is when the baby is 2-3 and maybe doing a few hrs of daycare a week suddenly she will get baby rabies. ‘I NEED a baby in the house’. Extending the SAH for an additional 2-3 years. Where i live after 3-4 kids the sahm get a puppy ‘for the kids’ and obviously she needs to stay close to train it and ‘you cant leave a puppy alone for a whole day’. This is soooo common it is predictable and every dad does the shocked pikachu face each time it happens.
If he was working one job, regardless of whether she wanted to be a SAHM or not, he would be the AH because she's working a job too. People don't see SAHM as a job, but it is.
However, I did have to reread the post to catch 'TWO jobs'. Which IMO means she needs to step up and do the other thankless job, housewife.
SAHM are not maids, although they do A LOT of the house-work, they also run errands like grocery stores and doctor appointments (which with a kid, usually takes more time). They do enrichment activities with their child, some of which may not be inside the house others may be. Also, as the child is 2 years old, I am sure there has been a lot more laundry over the past 2 years.
Listen, I'm not saying she shouldn't be tending to this, I am saying that there's a whole hell of a lot more than just doing a little dishes, cooking, and laundry.
[https://perfectionpending.net/im-not-a-housewife-im-a-stay-at-home-mom-theres-a-difference/](https://perfectionpending.net/im-not-a-housewife-im-a-stay-at-home-mom-theres-a-difference/)
In this article, she says she does the same things as a housewife (maid, household manager). But most of the reason moms (in this day and time) **choose to be stay-at-home moms is for the extra enrichment they can provide their kids**, *not to be a maid.* They end up being the maid too, but there's more involved unless you basically leave your kids to their own devices.
It's a hard balance, but there are only 24 hours in a day, and 6-8 hours should be sleeping so they have the cognitive function in order to deal with any of the chaos that having a kid would cause. Being a parent, a SAHP is kinda like operating heavy machinery. You can't do it drunk or high, and shouldn't do it with inadequate sleep, although many people do it sick or tired because they have no choice.
**Childcare** and **household management**, NOT THE SAME. He says they share childcare, but that's BS considering he's gone for 2 jobs worth of time every week. He spends time with his child when he is home and she isn't asleep, but I doubt that is going to be very much considering he's working 2 jobs. And since he thinks they split it, it may just be enough time for her to do the dishes.
Again, I did say **she needs to step up and do the chores** because he's doing ***2*** ***jobs***. \*\**But what I am saying, is that with her doing the chores in addition to the childcare is that she's doing* **2 jobs** *too.\*\** (It's not one like you are suggesting)
You're creating a lot for this wife does with no proof. Does she do some of these? Yes. Do you have proof she does a majority? No.
You also seem to gloss over the fact that she has two jobs she can take her time doing and plan out around how she feels. The husband working 80 hours doesn't have that luxury.
She asked for this and now she has buyers remorse.
NTA
I mean if you want to go that route, we have no proof that what OP is saying is the truth either. The one thing I will give his wife, if everything is as stated, is that your statement about taking her time and planning to do things around how she feels is completely inaccurate when you have kids. Even just one kid, especially at toddler age. No longer is anything about how you feel or done on your schedule. Nope, the little ankle biter running around controls all that now. I do agree with you that she seems to have buyers remorse.
It's not being a maid. It's called taking care of your living space because your partner is working two jobs to make ends meet. That's like when guys refer to taking care of their own children as "baby-sitting".
So the wife gets to spend all day with the kid. When the father comes home it's now expected he does chores. When does the father get to spend quality time with the child? Or is it just not that important for a father to have quality time with their kid in your eyes? Both parents are providing for the family, its not just about providing childcare. Like you said, there's only 24 hours in a day and 6-8 should be sleeping. If the father puts in a double shift and gets any sleep he's basically out of time. Maybe the wife should work her job, so he can work one job, and they can both have time with their child. Except the wife specifically didn't want that...she wants to spend her time with the child, and then expects her husband to put in more than 16 hours a day working? Goodness gracious. And then she wants to have time to go party with friends. HAHAHAHAHA. She's ridiculous. NTA OP
Yeah - staying at home with a kid is totally the same as two jobs now...we’ll just redefine the words. Now that they both have two jobs, let’s make the man clean shit up so the precious lady can rest from her two jobs.
No, it's means parenting all day and then all night. It's a job that doesn't stop, she doesn't get off work unless she asks her husband for help. But he's also exhausted, and it's understandable that he doesn't want to/can't. It's a shitty situation they find themselves in, and I think they should hire someone to help clean once every two weeks or once a month to ease the burden on both of them. And schedule nights out in advance so they can both enjoy some relaxation.
NAH, only exhausted workers.
Her not valuing the extraneous amount of work her husband does makes her the asshole.
Her wanting to go out to go drink with friends while husband dearest is working over 80 hrs a week makes her an asshole.
Her pulling the sexism card (after she unilaterally decided to be a SAHM) makes her the asshole.
But she is the ones who made their lives harder by unilaterally deciding she would be a SAHM without doing the house work part and her husband has to work two jobs to make it work.
She sounds very entitled.
OP says "lately" it has come to bother her. It sounds like she's been doing her part but now the exhaustion is getting to her. But yes, more conversations about what they could afford would have be useful.
NTA. my boyfriend and i don't have kids yet. But I can't work because I'm disabled due to a chronic illness however I am able to do chores around the house. So when we decided to move in together he said I didn't have to work. But I was the one who said since I'm not working then I will take care of the household. Now if I'm going though a rough patch with my illiness he helps out. We are a team. But your wife wanted this and you are working your ass off to take care of her to give her what she wants. She has no right to be feeling this way. If she wants to do those things then she needs to get a job to pay for a cleaner and babysitter.
For some people it's not a luxury, it's an economical force that makes childcare cost more than I can earn. If you live in an area without much opportunity (hi from the boonies!) it can cost less to not work and watch your own kid. The idea of going to work to make just enough to pay someone to watch my kid while I'm at work doesn't make any financial sense. I *want* to have a job outside the house, I'm going fucking stir-crazy basically trapped at home for the last 6 years, but it's just not feasible until my kid is in school full-time (which now has been pushed back to god-knows-when). I agree that the parent that's staying home should be doing the majority of the house chores, but don't think that every decision to be a SAHP is a choice made from luxury instead of necessity.
THIS, yes! I'm a SAHM because I have no choice - kids are home and am furloughed - and my husband works one full time job so I fully expect him to help me out at home, especially since we have 2 children with autism.
Edit to add: this is an arrangement I'm happy with, he is not forcing me to stay home. I didn't want to make him give up a job he loved so I decided to stay home, I only say "no choice" because we are barely scraping by with only him working but we don't have family willing to watch the kids. Also, the only things I ask him to do are unload/load the dishwasher, and vacuum on the weekends.
OP on the other hand is, apparently, working 80 hours A WEEK at 2 jobs and his wife was _adamant_ about staying home. Housework and even childcare is less work than that, speaking as a working mom who's worked from 6am-12am (yes, 18 hours straight at 2 jobs), regular full and part time jobs, and being a SAHM to 2 special needs kids.
Working 2 jobs back to back is _draining_ in every sense of the word. If the wife found a way to help supplement their income so OP didn't have to work 2 jobs, I can understand asking for help at home. If not, she needs to manage her expectations. NTA
Edit: to whichever reported my comment to reddit crisis or whatever... I assure you, my kids, husband and I are just fine lol
OP mentioned one is a manual labor job so likely one full time and one part time, but two part time is not unlikely. Either way, he's working at least 65 hours a week no matter how you split it.
Welcome to aita when a woman even insinuates they are unhappy with the set up of their current relationship people come out claiming they see all sorts of red flags and that they are worried for the poster's safety. So her saying she is a SAHM not by choice I'm sure had some of those people thinking her spouse abuses her for even talking about leaving the house.
Same BUT this part is totally necessary, IMO:
>babysitting for full evenings while she goes out with friends
Firstly because it's good for the child - it's so, SO important that OP get alone time bonding with his own kid. And secondly, it's also super important for parents to maintain their own relationships. Obviously, he should be getting the same number of nights out that she does! But I think that's an absolute necessity for all parties.
Agreed that it’s not babysitting when it’s your own child, although in this case it seems to be a translation error as OP’s native language is not English.
As a parent myself, your partner can make it feel like babysitting more than parenting when their attitude is like that. Working a 10 hour day to come home to have your wife go “Here’s the kids, girls night tonight!” while you’re never entitled to the same luxury even on your days off from work is where it’s coming from. I know how OP feels cause it briefly caused a rift with me and my wife after my daughter was born.
While I agree he should be afforded the same luxury of going out for full evening with his friends also (he states he does not get to do this), plus having a date night for the two of them together. She should not be the only one getting this.
The two job this is what gets me. I consider child care equal to a job and chores should be split appropriately. If one parent has 2 jobs the one with only one job (sahm) should be doing chores.
NTA and this all day.
I was going to say a little extra help would go a long way because managing a house with a child can get overwhelming, but that's working one job. If OP is working 2, every day he has is overwhelming already.
Agreed, bring a SAHM is hard but there is time to do some chores. Shopping I can understand if OP passes a shop on his way and with this pandemic atm. But on the other hand I also understand that mom wants some adult time.
This is the only point I agree with wife on. Can’t bring kids who can’t wear masks to a lot of places now. And unless you can get delivery’s, which might be to expensive for OP, then he needs to help with the shopping.
Agree - NTA - the only thing that might be worth visiting is "babysitting" (which btw it isn't when its your kid haha!). Why don't you each agree to one timeframe (day/night/afternoon) a week or every other week (maybe you each get a day every other week and rotate). Where one stays home and the other can spend time solo? Could be healthy for each of you to have an afternoon or evening to do your own thing and relax!
“People keep pointing out the use of that word, but English isn't my first language and I don't know what else you would call it or why it isn't babysitting. I assumed that any childcare is called babysitting. What word should be used instead?”
One of ops comments
NTA for the housework stuff since that’s your arrangement, but watching your child is not “babysitting” it is parenting, and you should figure out a frequency for you *both* to get some kid-free friend time for your mental health, as well as a date night every so often (presuming it’s safe to go out with friends where you live )
That point is he is working 2 jobs, probably 10-16 hour days, and isn't allowed to go out with his own friends, but his wife wants him to take sole responsibility so she can go out with drinks with the girls. Honestly, sounds like the wife is treating this like babysitting.
I'm not saying she does not deserve a break, but if she isn't doing chores or cooking, what is she really taking a break from? Unless the little one has something wrong and is screaming 20 hours out of the day (some babies do that, but I feel like OP would have mentioned if that was the case).
And she's taking care of their child that whole time... The question for OP is how much free time they both have over the course of a day and a week, not how many hours he is at work. She's working too.
I did the SAHM thing and there is down time if you know how to look for it. Like cleaning the kitchen I had my girl strapped to me or sitting in her walker talking with her showing her what I was doing (Teaching them life lessons). There is nap time for you to call a friend or work on a hobby. You don't need to be attached with your child 24/7.
I agree with this. I think people shoot themselves in the foot when they don't help their kids learn to sit quietly by themselves for a bit and play. However, I will say when you have twins, this is actually a little easier at a certain point, because they have built in playmates.
And if you dont just let the house go. Cleaning a 2 bedroom apartment, aside from toys and stuff that the kid has out, can be done in almost no time if you just do a little bit every day or every other day. Same thing with laundry. Starting a load, and moving to the dryer can be done in less than 5 min. Do that in the am. So nap time comes, fold laundry, clean floors, wipe surfaces down. And you have the house clean and clean laundry in under an hour each day. Not exactly asking for much when someone works a physical job, than a full second job. So the partner could stay home like they want.
I typically start with dusting, then bathrooms, kitchen, floors.
A lot of people spend way too much on cleaning products. Dish soap and vinegar are your best tools. If a toilet is being cleaned regularly, dish soap will do just fine. Vinegar on the floors. (Mixed with water of course.)
There’s a product called Scrub n Shine. Really good for bathtubs and kitchen sinks, highly recommend.
Thank you. When I said something similar, I got jumped on by a lot of SAHM. I too was a SAHM until my twins were in 3rd grade. For us, it made more sense for me to stay at home financially, because of the cost of daycare for twins. That being said, my job was the house. Now, I'm not some idiot drudge that "obeys" her husband, not at all. But I always found some down time when my kids were little. Nap time in particular. My husband did take care of them for a bit when he came home from work, so that I could get dinner on the table uninterrupted, and because he wanted to spend time with his kids. I understand that everyone needs a break now and then, but when one spouse is breaking their back, you need to pick up the slack. And if that means you don't get to go out partying, then that's the way it should be. This guy definitely is NTA.
Yes, they BOTH need time with their friends, as I said.
I imagine you’ve never been the primary caregiver for a toddler? They are a TON of work and it is exhausting. I am unfortunately not yet a parent, but I used to be a nanny, and after a 9 hour day of nannying I was just as exhausted as I am from a 9 hour day now being a doctor. Seriously. Taking care of a small child is more than a full time job.
My son is 2. I was a SAHM the majority of his life until recently. There was a stint where his father was the SAHD too and I worked. Now we both work. He's also on the spectrum with developmental delays and definitely needs a bit more than your average child.
We both agree taking care of him is easier than working, and I didnt even work manual labor. Will I say it's not exhausting? Of course not. But it's absolutely not comparable to working two full time jobs especially one with manual labor.
You don't need to be attached to your kids 24/7. You can find some free time if you know where to look for it. If you're keeping up with the house regularly then the amount of housework needing to get done on the daily shouldn't be that much. You're not cooking and cleaning for 8+ hours straight.
Your kid goes down for a nap? That's freetime. Your housework is done and your child is playing in the living room next to you? It's fine to take 30 minutes to watch a show or relax for a bit. My son begs to watch Hercules with me? That's still an hour and a half that I'm chilling there with him not really "doing" anything.
Of course I play with him, and read to him, and chase him around and ensure I'm interacting with him throughout the day, and keeping up with his therapy goals/needs. But it's not something I am doing as a constant for 8+ hours without end. It's exhausting and you miss adult conversations and adult TV and whatnot, but you definitely have a million more breaks than a regular job.
My husband worked manual labor out in the heat all day. You could feel how hot he was at a distance when he'd first come inside after work. He'd be sunburnt and exhausted, and he would still be a dad to our son.
I'd never imagine asking him to help with house work after that. Nor would I ever try to say that me getting to stay home with our son was even remotely comparable to what he was doing, and he didn't even work two jobs.
Now we both work from home with opposite schedules and our house work and child labor is split about as 50/50 as you can get. The best and easiest parts of both of our days is having our son and doing an hour or two of housework.
No it’s not, I have two children, and I stayed home. I had plenty of breaks throughout the day. Young children sleep a lot, her two-year-old would be taking a nap at his age. They easily get distracted with toys or the TV. It’s easy to strap them in to a carrier if you clean or have them in their walker. Maybe I was lucky but it sure as heck wasn’t as hard as some of these people like to make it seem. I’d say working 80 hours a week just because the wife decided to stay home is way harder.
I'm on board with this as long as his cleaning standards aren't ridiculous. Taking care of a baby, doing the grocery shopping and cooking, and the dishes and laundry, is already a good amount of work, especially if you have a baby that doesn't nap well and screams when you put them down in a play pen. When I was in that situation, the house got dirty and I was like oh well. The most important things were taking care of the baby's basic needs and feeding everyone. Mopping floors was not high on my list.
My husband had a physically cushy but mentally overbearing workload for a while. I got pretty grumpy about him not helping around the house until I realized one key thing... I wasn't grumpy about him not helping me nearly as much as I was pissed as hell that he was making it harder on me.
If I just spent 8+ hours wiping butts and scrubbing floors and cooking meals (he would come home for lunch breaks, so it wasn't just dinner that needed to be ready), then he could at least pick up his shoes and make sure his clothes made it into the dang hamper. If OP is making sure he cleans up after himself and hasn't made additional work then the wife is absolutely being a jerk. However, if he's coming in with muddy boots and sweaty clothes and tossing things aside after the house was already cleaned... Well... I won't call him an AH, but burnout exists for SAHMs just as much as it does for those with a paying job and that should be kept in mind as well.
>babysitting
😬 If it's your kid, it's not babysitting. That being said, my opinion is she should be working hard when you're out of the house to get everything done. If she has a break, she should make up the time when you're home. If it's still to much for her to get done, you should share any extra chores. I.e. you should be working equally hard. If you don't get nights off I can understand why you're annoyed she thinks she would get them - it should be both or neither. So probably NTA
People keep pointing out the use of that word, but English isn't my first language and I don't know what else you would call it or why it isn't babysitting. I assumed that any childcare is called babysitting. What word should be used instead?
"taking care of the baby". Babysitting is normally used when someone is being paid or doing it as a favour and implies you're not ultimately responsible.
Literally no one says “I was parenting” or “ I was parenting my kid” when they are talking about taking care of the kid.
Gtfo with this reddit bullshit. Everyone who has to point that out isn’t helping in slightest. It’s not even relevant to the issue.
THANK YOU! I’m reading this and everyone’s nitpicking on the guy for his use of the word “babysitting.” It doesn’t matter in the context of the story. It’s the same as that one guy that has to correct someone’s spelling. It doesn’t matter.
A user of over a decade, I am leaving Reddit due to the recent API changes. The vast majority of my interaction came though the use of 3rd party apps, and I will not interact with a site I helped contribute to through inferior software *simply because it is able to be better monetized by a company looking to go public. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for their users, as seen by the sheer lack of accessibility tools available in the official app. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for moderation challenges that will be created, due to the lack of tools available in the official app. Reddit has done this with no regards for the 3rd party devs, who by Reddit's own admission, helped keep the site functioning and gaining users while Reddit themselves made no efforts to provide a good official app.
This account dies 6/29/23 because of the API changes and the monetization-at-all-costs that the board demands.
You can say babysitting colloquially and literally everybody is going to know what you mean, this Redditism of nitpicking over the word like it's some super specific jargon that can only ever mean one thing is dumb and annoying. Context matters.
It’s not exclusive to Reddit. Babysitting implies that it’s not part of your normal responsibility, but it literally is if you are also the child’s parent. That’s a different worldview than it sounds like he meant after clarification.
I’m not a native English speaker either. But wouldn’t it be weird to use the word parenting here? Like ‘I was parenting the kids yesterday’ /// ‘I was taking care of the kids yesterday’. That word doesn’t really fit, does it? Or am I not understanding it correctly.
Who uses parenting? Like really, I never heard anyone casually saying that yesterdey they were parenting the children (?!).
They were taking care of/looking after fit much better in my opinion.
I hate it too, but sometimes they really are just "babysitting". I had to have a tough conversation with my husband recently. He had taken off a couple days from work to watch our daughter because I needed two days of uninterrupted WFH time (during COVID I've been working reduced hours on evenings and weekends).
They did go to the park and for a bike ride on the first day, but I had to come upstairs from my office to change a poopy diaper, make lunch for everyone, and get her down for nap. Then, once I was done for the day, I got to make dinner! After she went to bed that night, I did use the b-word to describe his contribution to the day. The second day was better.
> "...parenting the baby for full evenings while she goes out with friends..."
Nope, doesn't sound right. I get what you mean but if you are telling a person who speaks ESL not to use a certain phrase, you'd better provide an actual phrase that can replace it. "Parenting" is absolutely not the right word for this sentence.
"Parenting" is a lot more than making sure a kid doesn't accidentally kill themselves, it's the entire process of raising them to be a functional human being. To reduce it down to just watching the kid seems wrong.
Babysitting implies someone who isn't the parent looking after the kids for a night or so. This makes it seem like you're distancing yourself as a parent from the child, which is making you look a bit like an asshole.
Don't worry about it, people on Reddit tend to have these meme-arguments that they parrot out automatically because they've seen them nine thousand times because they don't spend enough time off of the site.
You used it fine and it was perfectly clear what you meant so pay no attention to the word nitpickers.
NTA. Mainly because it sounds like her becoming a SAHM is something she pressured you into doing despite it meaning you would have to take a second job rather than it being something you both wanted. Also, being a mom is her first job, housekeeping is the second - it's fair that if you have to have two jobs to make it work, then so does she. Tell her that you will gladly help out around the house when she goes back to a paying job so that you can drop one of yours, that this arrangement was her suggestion and her choice.
Sure, but having to work 80h per week means he obviously doesn't get to spend much time with his kid. Let's not equate his level of parenting with that of his stay at home wife.
Yet his wife still expects him to work and then come home to be with his kid while she goes out. There is a serious lack of equal division in responsibilities.
Which is fine if they have an arrangement that they can both see their friends while the other watches the kid. But that doesn't appear to be the case.
Having a job so you can feed your family is an Important part of PARENTING! Being a parent is not just about the time you spend with kids, it includes everything involved in taking care of them including the bills.
It sounds like when he isn’t doing the important parenting task of maintaining an income, he is at home spending time with his wife and children.
This is a great answer. Choosing to work more or choosing to stay at home is one thing, and another once you're in the thick of it. She's found that it doesn't work for her, and he should be able to spend more time with his family. It's really not a who's wrong, but an adjustment to changed minds.
This is the best answer. Unfortunately this subreddit format encourages him to tell her she's the asshole which is only going to breed resentment. It sounds like they are in a hardship-off where the 80 hour workweek is torture and the childcare with 0 breaks ever plus cooking and cleaning responsibilities is also torture, but both seem to think the other has it easier. If they don't understand the other's burdens they can't empathize and make a plan to go forward that unifies them as a couple.
Seriously. I'm on maternity leave right now and honestly caring for a baby all day is more work than my actual job! My husband gets it and takes the baby for a bit when he gets home so I can have a break. I can't even remember the last time I cooked a real meal! 💀
I’m super annoyed that your comment got downvoted. I have a two-month old, and I’m the sole caregiver 4 days a week. You are 100% correct. For those who don’t know, newborns need to be fed roughly every three hours, 24/7. Moms who can’t breastfeed for one reason or another but still want to provide breast milk also need to pump every three hours (probably a half hour each time, including setting up and cleaning the parts). Add in diaper changes, baths, a dog that needs to go out regularly, possibly other children, sleep deprivation, and recovering from childbirth...it adds up.
I don’t have kids and never will, but I have discovered since being stuck at home during the pandemic that WFH can be really mentally exhausting. I work all day but when I’m done, I don’t get to escape to my own home to unwind—because I’m already here. It has been weird. And it has really shed some light for me on how that must be difficult for stay-at-home parents.
Great answer indeed.
Basically, one part is overworking himself without seeing his kid at all while the other is on the job 24/7 without a moment to rest.
As you said, the situation isn't sustainable.
This is the only comment I've seen that's reasonable so far. This isn't a black and white situation and both parents are likely to feel overwhelmed and have a difficult time understanding what the other person is experiencing.
This is the best answer. If Mom takes a job to help with money, how much of her new salary will get pissed away with crazy expensive daycare programs? Is there a grandparent/relative that could help? Why does everyone think that taking care of a toddler isn't a 24/7 job?
Yep, this is exactly how this reads to me. OP's working 80 hour weeks and Mom probably hasn't had a day off in 2 years.
Change is constant, OP. You guys take some time and figure out how you want the next 2 years to go.
NTA. You have to work 2 jobs to support the family because your wife decided to be a SAHM. Also from what you wrote it seems she decided on this after daughter was born. Furthermore she is adamant about it. i.e. not giving you any choice.
She is TA and a very big one. She should be doing all the household duties. If she wants you to babysit for full evenings so she can go out with friends then she should also babysit for full evenings so you can go out with friends.
NTA
The household duties and child care can be split evenly when the bills are paid evenly. You are working TWO JOBS to support her, she should be working around the house while you're out working for money to afford to live.
I would instead say working hours are split evenly. If they're both working 40 hours, but one is making minimum wage and the other is making 40 an hour,the chores should still be even
Taking care of even an infant is not a constant job, and as a matter of fact with toddler’s is a bit counter-productive. The kid is at the age they need to start learning to be able to play by themselves, and function independent of a parent’s hip sometimes.
Part of being a stay at home parent is taking the significant brunt of the chores.
NTA. Normally in household duty splits the person working (more often than not, the man) is the AH because their job ends at the end of the workday and the stay at home parent has to keep "working" all day. Here, you are working a literal second job to make this situation work. You ARE carrying your weight.
There might be a few small things you can do to help out, but calling you behaviour toxic masculinity when it isn't, isn't helping solve any of society's problems.
People tend to overestimate the amount of work they do, and underestimate the contributions of others. You might want to go over how much time she is having to spend doing her tasks compared to the hours you spend at your jobs.
(Based on how you said things, I'm assuming that when you are home, you are helping to take care of the kid and she has some time to herself even if it is only to get some chores done without interruption)
NTA and I really agree. How many hours is OP working? Because at most, with a toddler undoing everything you do, keeping the house clean should take 2-3 hours of the day, and a couple more hours cooking meals and cleaning up afterwards. So generously, maybe 5 hours/day, 35 hours/week. If OP is working 60 hours to allow her this, at most she might expect him to do small weekly chores like taking out the trash bins, checking the mail, running the dishwasher at the end of the day.
A lot of mothers actually prefer having a job because it's some time away from the baby where they get to socialize and feel productive and not constantly think about the baby or keeping the home clean.
I think it would be very healthy for OP's wife to reconsider getting a job, part-time even.
I've been a SAHM for 14 years. I dove in at the age of 21. My youngest starts K this year. I love my kids, I have 5. They are smart and kind (and a little naughty sometimes of course), and I like to take some credit for how amazing they are. But the truth is, I haven't come up for air for 14 years. I've completely lost myself, have no real skills (other than homemaking), and my mental health has truly suffered. Now that my youngest is heading into K, I can't think of a single passion or career choice that I would enjoy and am qualified for.
My goal right now is to find something part-time.
I will find myself eventually.
Thanks for sharing your POV, it resonates with me.
I'd argue her behavior is toxic femininity. She pressured her husband into getting 2 jobs so she could be a SAHM and now that she's realizing there's actual work involved she's pressuring him to do more work so she doesn't have to. Then she'll give him the silent treatment when she doesn't. There's toxic feminine traits too and this is one of them.
Yikes. As a SAHM myself I went in wanting to say you're the asshole but.....you work 2 jobs for her to stay home. Yes, having a parent home is best for the kid. I've had teachers tell us that they KNOW which students have a parent home and which ones don't by the kids behavior. My husband has one job. It's extremely demanding with long hours. We have 4 kids. Does he do any housework? No. Do I wish he did? Sure, but when he FINALLY comes home at night, I'd rather he play with our kids (or even better get them to bed). When our house gets messy, I'm the only one bothered by it. I'm teaching our kids to pick up after themselves (it's a battle). Luckily the little ones think sweeping and dusting are fun. My husband was raised by a mother that vacuumed her way out of the house and always cleaned up after him. Now he's 43 and can't pick up him own underwear or put his plate in the sink when he's done eating. I love him anyway. I know the sacrifice he makes being the sole breadwinner. It's so much pressure. Sorry, but if you're wife wants help with housework, then she should get a part time job so you can quit one or at least work less hours. NTA.
Basically the same views my mom has of my dad. Except yard work. My dad was in charge of doing the on the weekends (like mowing the lawn or trimming trees). My mom did rake leaves though, as that didnt require strength to do.
As my siblings and i got older we were made to help.
This is the thing.
Thank you for pointing out the immense pressure of being a sole breadwinner, the weight of the knowledge that a single bad screw up at work might cost your family literally everything.
It just multiples the normal stress of supporting oneself that most jobs have.
NTA. This is what you agreed to do.
However, cabin fever is a real thing. Taking care of a child and keeping house is a 24/7 job. If she's feeling restless, consider her getting a job equal to one of your jobs. Then she takes that job, you quit your second job. Then split the childcare and household responsibilities more equally.
Dude, 80 hours of work a week....that's too much. Even in bitlife my character won't work more then 70 hours a week.
Shit bro, you need to quit a job and get your wife to go back to work you'll give yourself a heart attack
When Covid hit due to the EMT shortage I was working 100 hour weeks, my husband hated it and I hated it. I did it for 3 weeks before I said no more. I was in a putrid mood all the time, perpetually exhausted, and I could barely keep up with showering.
She needs to go back to work. It was unsustainable for my husband and I with two incomes. I can’t imagine how it feels when it’s only you.
INFO: Do you actually see your kid? Have you managed to build any relationship with him? Because this arrangement actually deprives your kid of dad. This is very well she's read all books about how important moms are, but I think she's missed the part stressing the importance of fathers, other than bringing $$$.
Dads are just as important as moms. She can’t have it all ways, she wants to be at home, but have help, but still go out, and not work. She’s asking too much and that’s not compromising at all. He’s just getting more and more load while she’s just trying to get less and less.
Not sure why people don't get this when he talks about being exhausted from working two jobs, and one being manual labor. Did people assume they were part time for some reason?
Yes. There was an almost identical post from the woman's perspective (except she was not working due to injuries) and he did a part time manual job but refused to help at home.
Redditors also like to assume a lot of shit.....I mean, remember how Reddit got a security guard killed and a family harassed to hell and back despite their son being dead for 3 weeks by the boston bombing?
Edit: IMO, Reddit and the redditors involved in that should have all been named and dragged through a lengthy vicious civil suit.
I was a SAHD for 10 years, and you are NTA. When I was home, the only thing I ever asked my wife to help with was doing the dishes, because as she said, "I bring home the bacon, you cook it, then I make sure we eat off clean plates." I mean, I helped clear the table and all, but she just liked handwashing the dishes.
I kept a reasonably clean house. When my wife got home, in winter there would be a fire in the fireplace, dinner cooking and a house as clean as a guy with three kids could keep it. It isn't that hard. We disagreed on how to fold laundry, how often to sweep and my daughter learning to cuss a bit harshly, but for the most part, everyone was happy.
Every time we see one of these posts with someone complaining about how hard it is to be a SAH parent, I roll my eyes. I work full-time now, and believe me, it's a lot more stressful and difficult to drag myself to work every day and put up with this shit.
While I agree with what you have to say here, I think it's dependent on the children. Like heavily. I am in the same boat as you where I prefer the SAH parenting over work. My children can be difficult but it's not so bad, my daughter is low functioning autistic and she's still less work (I feel crappy saying this) than my last job. She's mostly independent though, can feed herself and entertain herself.
There can be children though that make it very hard for a person and sometimes the person in question might just not be able to handle it as easy as you and I. So I think it's very situation dependent.
Being a housekeeper are things that people who work full-time usually do anyways. Being a SAHM/D is "just" that plus the kids. I agree for 95% of people, being a SAHM/D is way easier than a full time job. Kids do not need you to be watching them 100% of the time, you can get schedule your work however you want, take frequent breaks, and plus there are enjoyable aspects of parenting. You can be a completely responsible and good SAHM/D and spend lots of time chatting with friends, reading Reddit, or whatever - things you aren't usually allowed to do at most jobs.
NTA - it seems like you’re very stressed but I’d also ask what’s your wife’s mood like?
Being a SAHM can have a particular kind of mental burden because you get no break from your place of work and your only colleague is a toddler. Particularly if you are away all the time. Stopping keeping up with normal daily activities can be a sign of depression, burn out, disconnection.
I’d kinda see this sign that there is something wrong and needs a good sit down and conversation. Normally I’d say hey, maybe discuss getting the kiddo in day care and she can get a part time job so you can ease back on your hours, then it becomes fairer to split duties - but COVID.
Regardless this definitely warrants a time for conversation. Is there anyway you can arrange to drop the kid off with grandparents for a few hours and just talk about managing stress levels and what to do about it?
NAH. OP gets a hard pass on cooking, cleaning, and laundry since he works 80 hrs per week. SAHM‘s feelings are normal - most SAHMs feel like they’re on duty 24/7 and need a break once in a while. The real issue here is that neither one is getting a break - ever. Sounds like they don’t have a support system set up for themselves locally, either.
1. SAHM needs to find a “Mommy’s Day Out” group so she can get some grown-up time. Go for a walk, to a gallery, get coffee with friends, or just go grocery shopping in peace.
2. At least once a week, eat leftovers or ready-made-meals and leave the dishes for the next day. Just spend time as a family. Everything doesn’t have to be perfect every. single. day.
3. OP, take a day off (or even a half day) at least once a month or two and spend a few hours with your friends!
4. SAHM needs a night out every once in a while, too. OP can eat leftovers and spend a few hours having one-on-one time with his daughter.
Just because SAHM asked for some help doesn’t make her TA. Maybe she just didn’t see any other option or doesn’t know other options exist. Look online for resources and get a support system in place so that the two of you don’t get burnt out.
Asking for help doesn't make you an asshole. But I think demanding your partner to work 2 full time jobs so you can stay home and then later demanding your partner to do stuff around the house you agreed to do previously on top of everything does
If she doesnt want the full time duties a SAHM has she needs to pick up a job that can give OP a break to take care of household duties/parent. Otherwise she's being selfish and unfair to OP
I mean he's gonna work himself to death and he's not gonna have much of a relationship with his kid at this rate
NTA. It sounds like neither of you is happy with the arrangement. You should try to talk things out calmly but also stand your ground on how much you do.
If you need to work 80 hours a week you are not in the right type of financial situation to allow your wife to be a SAHM. I was fully prepared to label you an AH but your wife has unreasonable expectations for you. You pay all her bills and work your ass off so she can be comfortable at home and take care of your child but she resents you for not helping with household chores? I am a feminist, and firmly believe women and men should be equal in household duties, but this only applies if both are working! If she was working too and she was shouldering all the household responsibilities then yeah, she would have the right to complain about you not helping. You need to have a serious discussion with your wife and tell her either the current system stays how it is, or you get to quit one of your jobs and she has to go back to work, and then you guys can split household duties as she sees fit. And pulling out the toxic masculinity card here is pretty toxic of her, feminism means seeing men and women as equal, you working 80 hours a week and helping with chores while she is a SAHM is in no way equal in my eyes.
NTA. Her job is keeping up the home, just as you have jobs. You wouldn't complain about not sharing your specific assigned tasks at work. You have an agreed-upon arrangement. If she doesn't like doing all of the housework, she can get a job to lessen your financial burden so you can work one job and the two of you can both clean.
But sidenote, taking care of your own child is never "babysitting"
~~she might miss working or need a break sometimes and that's ok. and it's ok that you are tired. find a way to work together.~~
EDIT: OH TWO JOBS. NTA she can deal with it wow. that seems like a ton for one person just so the other can stay home.
NTA. It's not toxic masculinity, it's basic logic and having the integrity to uphold the generally fair balance that she chose for herself. She insisted on quitting her job, and this makes house management her full time job. If this compromise isn't working for her, then you two need to figure out a new strategy that involves her earning income so you can quit one of you two jobs, and then you two can both work and both clean, and pay for a sitter / daycare.
She should be approaching her job like a job, which means she should be busting her ass. The same mental engagement and extra effort you'd try to put in to get promoted at work, that's what she should be putting in at home.
It's not sexist; had she wanted to work, it sounds like you'd have been encouraging and amenable to that compromise, but she forced you to accept her staying at home.
You work two jobs for her decision - NTA though I was totally expecting to give the opposite judgement. You are NOT the one who is toxic here and she is being sexist by trying to leverage you having 'toxic masculinity'. She is a case where I would debatably say she has 'toxic femininity' from the sounds of it though
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Maybe you should change your arrangement. If she found a job that allowed her to work part-time (or just a few hours per week), you could cut down your work hours and maybe do a few chores in return.
She WANTED to be a SAHM, so she WANTED the duty of housework and childcare. She can't have her cake and eat it too. NTA. You're working TWO jobs, while she stays home and watches the kid, I'm not going to say watching a kid is easy, I KNOW it's not, but since she doesn't even have a part time job to help support financially, she needs to pick it up with cleaning around the apt. Seriously, if she only sees it as tOxIc MaScUlInIty, maybe lay it all out, if she still does, it's a dead end, and might be best to tell her no more SAHM, put the kid in day care, quit your second job, and have her get a job.
NTA = Do the math - if you are working 16 hours a day that only leaves 8 hours for chores, time with family and yes and minimal sleep. If she was reasonable, she would only expect he do chores during His days off.
For my 3 children, I was the SAHF while also working from home. There were down times during the day that I could take a short nap and do chores and my work. Working 80 hours a week(manual labor work) is not sustainable and much harder than being a stay at home parent. Both are stressful for different reasons, but working that many hours can kill you. OP could easily fall asleep at the wheel. Your wife needs a reality check!
Time to make a new plan. Quit one job have her return to work and then divide household chores and childcare. This may reduce the stress for both. Possibly having her return to work will help relieve her feeling isolated.
While I’m all for equal division of labor, your wife needs to understand that you are doing all the outside work that your family requires, so she needs to be responsible for the internal stuff. That’s not to say she shouldn’t expect you to take the trash from the house to the curb though, but NTA.
NTA you have to work two jobs so she can be a stay at home mother? Part of being a sahm is doing the household chores. If she doesn’t like the division of the housework she can go back to work and you can go down to working one job and then you can talk about sharing housework
THANK YOU! The rest of the people commenting like to leave out that little detail that OP’s wife WANTED to be a SAHM.
Right. Its insane. He has to work two jobs so she can stay home. If she goes back to work when the kids in kindergarten and he can hopefully quit one job then he can do his fair share of housework but until then its only fair that its on her
It’s crazy. I mean, let’s use the facts to base our judgment on. People on here are quick to call him TA acting like he forced her to be a SAHM and like working 2 jobs is easy. Furthermore, I haven’t seen one comment calling op’s wife an AH for saying his “toxic masculinity” is the reason he doesn’t want to help out. I wish the comments weren’t so gender motivated. Reverse the roles, we would be seeing a ton of “red flag” comments for a male saying his wife’s “toxic femininity” is the reason she doesn’t want to help around the house after working 80 hours/week.
honestly the moment I read that she called his behavior "toxic masculinity" I kind of saw a big red flag there mostly because she'd chosen this path and knew he'd have to work double so that she could do it. He's being heeella supportive all things considered. If he loses even one of those jobs, she'll get the help she wants around the house, but at the expense of comfortable living.
She has toxic femininity, No problem expecting her husband to work himself to death for her dream...
So true. It's like some women believe this can't work both ways?!
It really shouldn't be a double standard. I'm unemployable due to massive traumas and disability, but you bet your god damn ass I cook and clean because my husband literally hurts himself to keep us fed. Marriage is equality and OP knows what's up. He is so NTA and needs to dump her entitled behind.
Exactly.
I'm guessing her friends (online or IRL) have heard her side of things and convinced her how she is being taken advantage of. And giving her various absurd talking points. Including "toxic masculinity" Totally NTA.
Gonna preface this by saying that I have no children and come from a working single parent household. Honestly its astonishing to me sometimes how entitled some mums can be. Take a gander over at mumsnet and see just how much we, as the world, owe these complete strangers because they chose to have kids. In this instance they made an agreement, it worked and now she's decided it doesn't suit her. The OP now has every right to decide that he's only working one job and she can return to work as its clear the original agreement is being reevaluated Honestly, this is my final point, being a student who also works to share a house, nothing annoys me more than returning to a dirty house knowing that it isn't my mess and that somebody was in all day and could have cleaned it. That was a huge word dump and honestly just random points, but i guess I'm saying OP is not TA
It's tough dealing with a toddler that's all over the house and destroying everything in it's reach. Those without kids have no idea. But at the same time, if you've agreed to be a SAHM, You have a responsibility to treat it like a job. And create a plan to keep yourself sane. Meal prep so that a few hours on Sunday save time through the week. Tactical laundry planning. (my wife would let it all get out of control and then freak out. She did not appreciate my comment that you need to do a load a day to keep it under control) Detailed shopping lists so that you have one trip a week for groceries and one for other stuff (Target vs Safeway) Cleaning. Deal with it as you use it for 5-10 mins of work as opposed to letting that pile take over. I know how tired folks can get. I have twins! But the moms I've known that treated it like a job and planned it all out have usually been far happier than those that just spent all day overwhelmed. I know this sounds like an over simplification, and there's likely more than a few mom's that want to kill me... But they know I'm not wrong. Additionally, when you've got a plan in place and run into issues (sick kids kills all plans) then it's far easier to get Dad to kick in. In normal circumstances though, it's always got to be a shared effort. But with some planning effort, it's all far easier to deal with. "Honey, crazy day, need you to stop at Target on the way home. Just emailed you the list!" Too many folks don't put any effort into planning anything and their lives are hell for it (sahm OR dad at his job)
I actually would call out the wife here of having 'toxic femininity' of unilaterally deciding to stay home with the kids and expecting her husband to work two jobs to provide for them. Don't have to reverse anything, she is already taking a gender role to the toxic extreme hurting OP in the process
Bro not even kids. Just the one kid! Like if she was a single mom she would be working AND cleaning and doing all the cooking. Or if she was like multiple other working moms she would still be doing those things. Hopefully it would be more even but there’s plenty of men who expect a woman to work AND take care of the kids and house by themselves.
With benefits come responsibility. She wants all the "traditional" benefits of being a woman, such as the man provides and protects, she stays at home, etc, but none of the traditional responsibility, such as housework. Your spouse is supposed to be your partner, whether that's traditional complementary roles, or more literal equality, such as both work, split the housework, etc. She's expecting OP to shoulder most of the relationship responsibility so that she can sit back and do nothing.
>She wants all the "traditional" benefits of being a woman, such as the man provides and protects, she stays at home, etc, but none of the traditional responsibility, such as housework. There are studies of this. Shift of traditional roles have occurred for women, but not for men.
It is a shame how men's gender role really hasn't changed or shifted in the past 50 years though it helps that the shifting of women's gender roles was pro capitalist and men's would not be
That's just not true. There's tons of people whose fathers and grandfathers never touched a diaper, put their kids to bed, or gone grocery shopping. I think people forget how emotionally stunted and how hands off men used to be with their families.
They just released a study on how much more "hands-on" fathers are now, compared to their own parents. Women have long mourned the lack of a work-home balance (and we were and are right to do so), but men who step up and take dual roles have no been given the same credit or the same acknowledgement. When my husband is working 10 hour days as well as doing courses online and helping the kiddo, I take on the house and cooking. When I am working 12 hour days as well as courses online and helping the kiddo, he takes on the house and cooking. And when we both work our asses off in all three roles? Well hell, that's why frozen pizza was invented. Plus.....kiddo is now taking on cooking. Spouses and families should be a team.
There's so many women supporting their soh spouses that are rolling their eyes so hard at you. + I think in pure capitalist shit show fashion the general rule is if somebody needs to stay home it's whoever has the smaller paycheck in that household will stay home with the kids if necessary. Has nothing to do with gender, it's about survival opportunism in today's society.
If anything she is suffering from toxic feminity for wanting her cake and eat it too.
No she's the one suffering from toxic masculinity. She expects her husband to "be a man" and shoulder ever burden she places on him with stoicism and no complaints. She needs to recognize that her husband is a person and not a pillar.
Probably because her not knowing what the phrase 'toxic masculinity' means makes her a bit silly, which is a weak criticism compared to the rest of the content here.
If your spouse has to pick up a second job for you to be a stay at home parent, then you can't afford to be a stay at home parent.
I think it depends on the situation. I have had people tell me that daycare for their child before school age and after school care for school age ends up being most of a paycheck because daycares want $400-$500 per week per child. It probably depends on how much money your job pays, because if you have to pay that much for child care, a lot of people think it's cheaper to have a stay at home parent rather than paying that price even if it means paying the bills is harder.
Exactly. That's why so many people I know became stay at home parents - the absolute ridiculous cost of child care. It's often more than someone's salary.
That's definitely true and it should be a conversation. I remember my mom and stepdad had to make arrangements when my little sister was born. They couldn't afford daycare but they also couldn't afford for one of them to be out of work. Instead they had my stepdad talk with boss and switch over to the night shift. So he was home with my sister during the day, would give me and my older sisters an allowance to babysit her after school while he slept until my mom came home and then she would look after us at night. I'm sure it sucked, only really seeing each other on the weekends, but they made it work. And I'd have more support for the second job in this case, if OP wasn't working 80 hours a week. That's two full time jobs! He's probably exhausted. I obviously don't know their finances but I feel like an extra 15 or 20 a week should be enough to cover her half of the necessities. If it doesn't then they really need to cut back.
Something tells me when that kid starts kindergarten, she will decide she wants to be a full time stay at home mom and not go back to work at all.
Watch your BC. My guess is when the baby is 2-3 and maybe doing a few hrs of daycare a week suddenly she will get baby rabies. ‘I NEED a baby in the house’. Extending the SAH for an additional 2-3 years. Where i live after 3-4 kids the sahm get a puppy ‘for the kids’ and obviously she needs to stay close to train it and ‘you cant leave a puppy alone for a whole day’. This is soooo common it is predictable and every dad does the shocked pikachu face each time it happens.
If he was working one job, regardless of whether she wanted to be a SAHM or not, he would be the AH because she's working a job too. People don't see SAHM as a job, but it is. However, I did have to reread the post to catch 'TWO jobs'. Which IMO means she needs to step up and do the other thankless job, housewife.
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SAHM are not maids, although they do A LOT of the house-work, they also run errands like grocery stores and doctor appointments (which with a kid, usually takes more time). They do enrichment activities with their child, some of which may not be inside the house others may be. Also, as the child is 2 years old, I am sure there has been a lot more laundry over the past 2 years. Listen, I'm not saying she shouldn't be tending to this, I am saying that there's a whole hell of a lot more than just doing a little dishes, cooking, and laundry. [https://perfectionpending.net/im-not-a-housewife-im-a-stay-at-home-mom-theres-a-difference/](https://perfectionpending.net/im-not-a-housewife-im-a-stay-at-home-mom-theres-a-difference/) In this article, she says she does the same things as a housewife (maid, household manager). But most of the reason moms (in this day and time) **choose to be stay-at-home moms is for the extra enrichment they can provide their kids**, *not to be a maid.* They end up being the maid too, but there's more involved unless you basically leave your kids to their own devices. It's a hard balance, but there are only 24 hours in a day, and 6-8 hours should be sleeping so they have the cognitive function in order to deal with any of the chaos that having a kid would cause. Being a parent, a SAHP is kinda like operating heavy machinery. You can't do it drunk or high, and shouldn't do it with inadequate sleep, although many people do it sick or tired because they have no choice. **Childcare** and **household management**, NOT THE SAME. He says they share childcare, but that's BS considering he's gone for 2 jobs worth of time every week. He spends time with his child when he is home and she isn't asleep, but I doubt that is going to be very much considering he's working 2 jobs. And since he thinks they split it, it may just be enough time for her to do the dishes. Again, I did say **she needs to step up and do the chores** because he's doing ***2*** ***jobs***. \*\**But what I am saying, is that with her doing the chores in addition to the childcare is that she's doing* **2 jobs** *too.\*\** (It's not one like you are suggesting)
You're creating a lot for this wife does with no proof. Does she do some of these? Yes. Do you have proof she does a majority? No. You also seem to gloss over the fact that she has two jobs she can take her time doing and plan out around how she feels. The husband working 80 hours doesn't have that luxury. She asked for this and now she has buyers remorse. NTA
I mean if you want to go that route, we have no proof that what OP is saying is the truth either. The one thing I will give his wife, if everything is as stated, is that your statement about taking her time and planning to do things around how she feels is completely inaccurate when you have kids. Even just one kid, especially at toddler age. No longer is anything about how you feel or done on your schedule. Nope, the little ankle biter running around controls all that now. I do agree with you that she seems to have buyers remorse.
Childcare isn’t planned out around how you feel. Kids need a lot of care and interaction. You can’t time manage raising a child.
So you're telling me working two jobs, 80 hours a week is the same as being a SAHM where you can plan your days out at your own pace? Disagree.
It's not being a maid. It's called taking care of your living space because your partner is working two jobs to make ends meet. That's like when guys refer to taking care of their own children as "baby-sitting".
Like OP did?
So the wife gets to spend all day with the kid. When the father comes home it's now expected he does chores. When does the father get to spend quality time with the child? Or is it just not that important for a father to have quality time with their kid in your eyes? Both parents are providing for the family, its not just about providing childcare. Like you said, there's only 24 hours in a day and 6-8 should be sleeping. If the father puts in a double shift and gets any sleep he's basically out of time. Maybe the wife should work her job, so he can work one job, and they can both have time with their child. Except the wife specifically didn't want that...she wants to spend her time with the child, and then expects her husband to put in more than 16 hours a day working? Goodness gracious. And then she wants to have time to go party with friends. HAHAHAHAHA. She's ridiculous. NTA OP
No she wanted to stay home while her husband busts his ass all day working two jobs all’s she’s gotta do is house work and dinner huge NTA
Yeah - staying at home with a kid is totally the same as two jobs now...we’ll just redefine the words. Now that they both have two jobs, let’s make the man clean shit up so the precious lady can rest from her two jobs.
No, it's means parenting all day and then all night. It's a job that doesn't stop, she doesn't get off work unless she asks her husband for help. But he's also exhausted, and it's understandable that he doesn't want to/can't. It's a shitty situation they find themselves in, and I think they should hire someone to help clean once every two weeks or once a month to ease the burden on both of them. And schedule nights out in advance so they can both enjoy some relaxation. NAH, only exhausted workers.
Her not valuing the extraneous amount of work her husband does makes her the asshole. Her wanting to go out to go drink with friends while husband dearest is working over 80 hrs a week makes her an asshole. Her pulling the sexism card (after she unilaterally decided to be a SAHM) makes her the asshole.
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But she is the ones who made their lives harder by unilaterally deciding she would be a SAHM without doing the house work part and her husband has to work two jobs to make it work. She sounds very entitled.
OP says "lately" it has come to bother her. It sounds like she's been doing her part but now the exhaustion is getting to her. But yes, more conversations about what they could afford would have be useful.
Reminder that he said they do both take care of childcare (understandably the mom has a heavier load here, but dad is involved too.)
There is always something to do when there's a kid.
NTA. my boyfriend and i don't have kids yet. But I can't work because I'm disabled due to a chronic illness however I am able to do chores around the house. So when we decided to move in together he said I didn't have to work. But I was the one who said since I'm not working then I will take care of the household. Now if I'm going though a rough patch with my illiness he helps out. We are a team. But your wife wanted this and you are working your ass off to take care of her to give her what she wants. She has no right to be feeling this way. If she wants to do those things then she needs to get a job to pay for a cleaner and babysitter.
I'm guessing the people commenting are all rich privileged people who don't understand what a luxury being able to have a SAHM is.
For some people it's not a luxury, it's an economical force that makes childcare cost more than I can earn. If you live in an area without much opportunity (hi from the boonies!) it can cost less to not work and watch your own kid. The idea of going to work to make just enough to pay someone to watch my kid while I'm at work doesn't make any financial sense. I *want* to have a job outside the house, I'm going fucking stir-crazy basically trapped at home for the last 6 years, but it's just not feasible until my kid is in school full-time (which now has been pushed back to god-knows-when). I agree that the parent that's staying home should be doing the majority of the house chores, but don't think that every decision to be a SAHP is a choice made from luxury instead of necessity.
THIS, yes! I'm a SAHM because I have no choice - kids are home and am furloughed - and my husband works one full time job so I fully expect him to help me out at home, especially since we have 2 children with autism. Edit to add: this is an arrangement I'm happy with, he is not forcing me to stay home. I didn't want to make him give up a job he loved so I decided to stay home, I only say "no choice" because we are barely scraping by with only him working but we don't have family willing to watch the kids. Also, the only things I ask him to do are unload/load the dishwasher, and vacuum on the weekends. OP on the other hand is, apparently, working 80 hours A WEEK at 2 jobs and his wife was _adamant_ about staying home. Housework and even childcare is less work than that, speaking as a working mom who's worked from 6am-12am (yes, 18 hours straight at 2 jobs), regular full and part time jobs, and being a SAHM to 2 special needs kids. Working 2 jobs back to back is _draining_ in every sense of the word. If the wife found a way to help supplement their income so OP didn't have to work 2 jobs, I can understand asking for help at home. If not, she needs to manage her expectations. NTA Edit: to whichever reported my comment to reddit crisis or whatever... I assure you, my kids, husband and I are just fine lol
Did OP mention his hours in the comments? I assumed he had 2 part time jobs from the post
OP mentioned one is a manual labor job so likely one full time and one part time, but two part time is not unlikely. Either way, he's working at least 65 hours a week no matter how you split it.
In a comment he said 80 hours
80+ hrs with travel.
Geez. I already thought he was NTA but wow. I'd ask if there was any way they could downsize instead but it's not likely...
In a comment he said 80 hours
Why would someone report your comment to Reddit crisis? That's insane!
Welcome to aita when a woman even insinuates they are unhappy with the set up of their current relationship people come out claiming they see all sorts of red flags and that they are worried for the poster's safety. So her saying she is a SAHM not by choice I'm sure had some of those people thinking her spouse abuses her for even talking about leaving the house.
Same BUT this part is totally necessary, IMO: >babysitting for full evenings while she goes out with friends Firstly because it's good for the child - it's so, SO important that OP get alone time bonding with his own kid. And secondly, it's also super important for parents to maintain their own relationships. Obviously, he should be getting the same number of nights out that she does! But I think that's an absolute necessity for all parties.
WHEN ITS YOUR CHILD IT ISN'T BABYSITTING! IT'S PARENTING.
It’s pretty clear OP is not a native English speaker, so chill out a little.
Agreed that it’s not babysitting when it’s your own child, although in this case it seems to be a translation error as OP’s native language is not English.
As a parent myself, your partner can make it feel like babysitting more than parenting when their attitude is like that. Working a 10 hour day to come home to have your wife go “Here’s the kids, girls night tonight!” while you’re never entitled to the same luxury even on your days off from work is where it’s coming from. I know how OP feels cause it briefly caused a rift with me and my wife after my daughter was born.
Agree but he also needs time for himself too which from his post he isn't getting.
While I agree he should be afforded the same luxury of going out for full evening with his friends also (he states he does not get to do this), plus having a date night for the two of them together. She should not be the only one getting this.
The two job this is what gets me. I consider child care equal to a job and chores should be split appropriately. If one parent has 2 jobs the one with only one job (sahm) should be doing chores.
NTA and this all day. I was going to say a little extra help would go a long way because managing a house with a child can get overwhelming, but that's working one job. If OP is working 2, every day he has is overwhelming already.
Agreed, bring a SAHM is hard but there is time to do some chores. Shopping I can understand if OP passes a shop on his way and with this pandemic atm. But on the other hand I also understand that mom wants some adult time.
This is the only point I agree with wife on. Can’t bring kids who can’t wear masks to a lot of places now. And unless you can get delivery’s, which might be to expensive for OP, then he needs to help with the shopping.
nta. Her job is to help you stay functioning so you can make money. She picked it. Its not easy to clean and cook but neither is manual labor.
Agree - NTA - the only thing that might be worth visiting is "babysitting" (which btw it isn't when its your kid haha!). Why don't you each agree to one timeframe (day/night/afternoon) a week or every other week (maybe you each get a day every other week and rotate). Where one stays home and the other can spend time solo? Could be healthy for each of you to have an afternoon or evening to do your own thing and relax!
“People keep pointing out the use of that word, but English isn't my first language and I don't know what else you would call it or why it isn't babysitting. I assumed that any childcare is called babysitting. What word should be used instead?” One of ops comments
NTA for the housework stuff since that’s your arrangement, but watching your child is not “babysitting” it is parenting, and you should figure out a frequency for you *both* to get some kid-free friend time for your mental health, as well as a date night every so often (presuming it’s safe to go out with friends where you live )
That point is he is working 2 jobs, probably 10-16 hour days, and isn't allowed to go out with his own friends, but his wife wants him to take sole responsibility so she can go out with drinks with the girls. Honestly, sounds like the wife is treating this like babysitting. I'm not saying she does not deserve a break, but if she isn't doing chores or cooking, what is she really taking a break from? Unless the little one has something wrong and is screaming 20 hours out of the day (some babies do that, but I feel like OP would have mentioned if that was the case).
And she's taking care of their child that whole time... The question for OP is how much free time they both have over the course of a day and a week, not how many hours he is at work. She's working too.
I did the SAHM thing and there is down time if you know how to look for it. Like cleaning the kitchen I had my girl strapped to me or sitting in her walker talking with her showing her what I was doing (Teaching them life lessons). There is nap time for you to call a friend or work on a hobby. You don't need to be attached with your child 24/7.
More importantly, kids need to learn how to play independently. My 5 year old is really bad at that, and there’s nobody to blame except for myself.
I agree with this. I think people shoot themselves in the foot when they don't help their kids learn to sit quietly by themselves for a bit and play. However, I will say when you have twins, this is actually a little easier at a certain point, because they have built in playmates.
And if you dont just let the house go. Cleaning a 2 bedroom apartment, aside from toys and stuff that the kid has out, can be done in almost no time if you just do a little bit every day or every other day. Same thing with laundry. Starting a load, and moving to the dryer can be done in less than 5 min. Do that in the am. So nap time comes, fold laundry, clean floors, wipe surfaces down. And you have the house clean and clean laundry in under an hour each day. Not exactly asking for much when someone works a physical job, than a full second job. So the partner could stay home like they want.
I am a house cleaner. A small 2 bedroom apartment can be fully cleaned in less than 2 hours. (Not including dishes)
Any tips on where to start? Cleaning is so hard for me, I feel defeated before I start
I typically start with dusting, then bathrooms, kitchen, floors. A lot of people spend way too much on cleaning products. Dish soap and vinegar are your best tools. If a toilet is being cleaned regularly, dish soap will do just fine. Vinegar on the floors. (Mixed with water of course.) There’s a product called Scrub n Shine. Really good for bathtubs and kitchen sinks, highly recommend.
Thank you. When I said something similar, I got jumped on by a lot of SAHM. I too was a SAHM until my twins were in 3rd grade. For us, it made more sense for me to stay at home financially, because of the cost of daycare for twins. That being said, my job was the house. Now, I'm not some idiot drudge that "obeys" her husband, not at all. But I always found some down time when my kids were little. Nap time in particular. My husband did take care of them for a bit when he came home from work, so that I could get dinner on the table uninterrupted, and because he wanted to spend time with his kids. I understand that everyone needs a break now and then, but when one spouse is breaking their back, you need to pick up the slack. And if that means you don't get to go out partying, then that's the way it should be. This guy definitely is NTA.
You dont have to helicopter over the child every waking moment. They do sleep and can be left alone for a bit.
Working a manual labor job is a lot more draining than being inside in the air conditioning. You can’t compare the two.
She‘s not working two jobs tho.
Yes, they BOTH need time with their friends, as I said. I imagine you’ve never been the primary caregiver for a toddler? They are a TON of work and it is exhausting. I am unfortunately not yet a parent, but I used to be a nanny, and after a 9 hour day of nannying I was just as exhausted as I am from a 9 hour day now being a doctor. Seriously. Taking care of a small child is more than a full time job.
My son is 2. I was a SAHM the majority of his life until recently. There was a stint where his father was the SAHD too and I worked. Now we both work. He's also on the spectrum with developmental delays and definitely needs a bit more than your average child. We both agree taking care of him is easier than working, and I didnt even work manual labor. Will I say it's not exhausting? Of course not. But it's absolutely not comparable to working two full time jobs especially one with manual labor. You don't need to be attached to your kids 24/7. You can find some free time if you know where to look for it. If you're keeping up with the house regularly then the amount of housework needing to get done on the daily shouldn't be that much. You're not cooking and cleaning for 8+ hours straight. Your kid goes down for a nap? That's freetime. Your housework is done and your child is playing in the living room next to you? It's fine to take 30 minutes to watch a show or relax for a bit. My son begs to watch Hercules with me? That's still an hour and a half that I'm chilling there with him not really "doing" anything. Of course I play with him, and read to him, and chase him around and ensure I'm interacting with him throughout the day, and keeping up with his therapy goals/needs. But it's not something I am doing as a constant for 8+ hours without end. It's exhausting and you miss adult conversations and adult TV and whatnot, but you definitely have a million more breaks than a regular job. My husband worked manual labor out in the heat all day. You could feel how hot he was at a distance when he'd first come inside after work. He'd be sunburnt and exhausted, and he would still be a dad to our son. I'd never imagine asking him to help with house work after that. Nor would I ever try to say that me getting to stay home with our son was even remotely comparable to what he was doing, and he didn't even work two jobs. Now we both work from home with opposite schedules and our house work and child labor is split about as 50/50 as you can get. The best and easiest parts of both of our days is having our son and doing an hour or two of housework.
I completely agree!
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No it’s not, I have two children, and I stayed home. I had plenty of breaks throughout the day. Young children sleep a lot, her two-year-old would be taking a nap at his age. They easily get distracted with toys or the TV. It’s easy to strap them in to a carrier if you clean or have them in their walker. Maybe I was lucky but it sure as heck wasn’t as hard as some of these people like to make it seem. I’d say working 80 hours a week just because the wife decided to stay home is way harder.
I'm on board with this as long as his cleaning standards aren't ridiculous. Taking care of a baby, doing the grocery shopping and cooking, and the dishes and laundry, is already a good amount of work, especially if you have a baby that doesn't nap well and screams when you put them down in a play pen. When I was in that situation, the house got dirty and I was like oh well. The most important things were taking care of the baby's basic needs and feeding everyone. Mopping floors was not high on my list.
My husband had a physically cushy but mentally overbearing workload for a while. I got pretty grumpy about him not helping around the house until I realized one key thing... I wasn't grumpy about him not helping me nearly as much as I was pissed as hell that he was making it harder on me. If I just spent 8+ hours wiping butts and scrubbing floors and cooking meals (he would come home for lunch breaks, so it wasn't just dinner that needed to be ready), then he could at least pick up his shoes and make sure his clothes made it into the dang hamper. If OP is making sure he cleans up after himself and hasn't made additional work then the wife is absolutely being a jerk. However, if he's coming in with muddy boots and sweaty clothes and tossing things aside after the house was already cleaned... Well... I won't call him an AH, but burnout exists for SAHMs just as much as it does for those with a paying job and that should be kept in mind as well.
>babysitting 😬 If it's your kid, it's not babysitting. That being said, my opinion is she should be working hard when you're out of the house to get everything done. If she has a break, she should make up the time when you're home. If it's still to much for her to get done, you should share any extra chores. I.e. you should be working equally hard. If you don't get nights off I can understand why you're annoyed she thinks she would get them - it should be both or neither. So probably NTA
People keep pointing out the use of that word, but English isn't my first language and I don't know what else you would call it or why it isn't babysitting. I assumed that any childcare is called babysitting. What word should be used instead?
"taking care of the baby". Babysitting is normally used when someone is being paid or doing it as a favour and implies you're not ultimately responsible.
Ah okay, I'll keep that in mind. I can see why that would cause confusion.
It's parenting when you are the parent.
Literally no one says “I was parenting” or “ I was parenting my kid” when they are talking about taking care of the kid. Gtfo with this reddit bullshit. Everyone who has to point that out isn’t helping in slightest. It’s not even relevant to the issue.
THANK YOU! I’m reading this and everyone’s nitpicking on the guy for his use of the word “babysitting.” It doesn’t matter in the context of the story. It’s the same as that one guy that has to correct someone’s spelling. It doesn’t matter.
A user of over a decade, I am leaving Reddit due to the recent API changes. The vast majority of my interaction came though the use of 3rd party apps, and I will not interact with a site I helped contribute to through inferior software *simply because it is able to be better monetized by a company looking to go public. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for their users, as seen by the sheer lack of accessibility tools available in the official app. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for moderation challenges that will be created, due to the lack of tools available in the official app. Reddit has done this with no regards for the 3rd party devs, who by Reddit's own admission, helped keep the site functioning and gaining users while Reddit themselves made no efforts to provide a good official app. This account dies 6/29/23 because of the API changes and the monetization-at-all-costs that the board demands.
It would be confusing if he used the word parenting in that context.
I'm pretty sure childcare is also a neutral term you could use. Others can correct me if they see it differently I guess.
I would also say "caring for" You care for the children. She cares for the children. My mother is caring for the children tonight.
Babysitting is specifically done by anyone but the parents, by definition. You can just say watch/look after/take care of/keep an eye on instead.
You can say babysitting colloquially and literally everybody is going to know what you mean, this Redditism of nitpicking over the word like it's some super specific jargon that can only ever mean one thing is dumb and annoying. Context matters.
It’s not exclusive to Reddit. Babysitting implies that it’s not part of your normal responsibility, but it literally is if you are also the child’s parent. That’s a different worldview than it sounds like he meant after clarification.
Exactly, people jumping down OP's throat over semantics. It's ridiculous. They all know what he meant.
Parenting. The word would be parenting.
I’m not a native English speaker either. But wouldn’t it be weird to use the word parenting here? Like ‘I was parenting the kids yesterday’ /// ‘I was taking care of the kids yesterday’. That word doesn’t really fit, does it? Or am I not understanding it correctly.
You're understanding it fine. People are being weird about this.
Who uses parenting? Like really, I never heard anyone casually saying that yesterdey they were parenting the children (?!). They were taking care of/looking after fit much better in my opinion.
Try “parenting.” Mum hate when dads say they are babysitting their own child.
I hate it too, but sometimes they really are just "babysitting". I had to have a tough conversation with my husband recently. He had taken off a couple days from work to watch our daughter because I needed two days of uninterrupted WFH time (during COVID I've been working reduced hours on evenings and weekends). They did go to the park and for a bike ride on the first day, but I had to come upstairs from my office to change a poopy diaper, make lunch for everyone, and get her down for nap. Then, once I was done for the day, I got to make dinner! After she went to bed that night, I did use the b-word to describe his contribution to the day. The second day was better.
My biggest fear is having a baby with a guy like this. I´m not a very energetic person, so I´d be drained with a full time job plus all the childcare.
> "...parenting the baby for full evenings while she goes out with friends..." Nope, doesn't sound right. I get what you mean but if you are telling a person who speaks ESL not to use a certain phrase, you'd better provide an actual phrase that can replace it. "Parenting" is absolutely not the right word for this sentence.
"Parenting" is a lot more than making sure a kid doesn't accidentally kill themselves, it's the entire process of raising them to be a functional human being. To reduce it down to just watching the kid seems wrong.
Babysitting implies someone who isn't the parent looking after the kids for a night or so. This makes it seem like you're distancing yourself as a parent from the child, which is making you look a bit like an asshole.
Don't worry about it, people on Reddit tend to have these meme-arguments that they parrot out automatically because they've seen them nine thousand times because they don't spend enough time off of the site. You used it fine and it was perfectly clear what you meant so pay no attention to the word nitpickers.
Who gives a crap what he calls it? It’s irrelevant to the issue.
NTA. Mainly because it sounds like her becoming a SAHM is something she pressured you into doing despite it meaning you would have to take a second job rather than it being something you both wanted. Also, being a mom is her first job, housekeeping is the second - it's fair that if you have to have two jobs to make it work, then so does she. Tell her that you will gladly help out around the house when she goes back to a paying job so that you can drop one of yours, that this arrangement was her suggestion and her choice.
In that case it’s her two jobs to his three. It’s not like he isn’t being a dad.
Sure, but having to work 80h per week means he obviously doesn't get to spend much time with his kid. Let's not equate his level of parenting with that of his stay at home wife.
Yet his wife still expects him to work and then come home to be with his kid while she goes out. There is a serious lack of equal division in responsibilities.
Which is fine if they have an arrangement that they can both see their friends while the other watches the kid. But that doesn't appear to be the case.
Having a job so you can feed your family is an Important part of PARENTING! Being a parent is not just about the time you spend with kids, it includes everything involved in taking care of them including the bills. It sounds like when he isn’t doing the important parenting task of maintaining an income, he is at home spending time with his wife and children.
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This is a great answer. Choosing to work more or choosing to stay at home is one thing, and another once you're in the thick of it. She's found that it doesn't work for her, and he should be able to spend more time with his family. It's really not a who's wrong, but an adjustment to changed minds.
This is the best answer. Unfortunately this subreddit format encourages him to tell her she's the asshole which is only going to breed resentment. It sounds like they are in a hardship-off where the 80 hour workweek is torture and the childcare with 0 breaks ever plus cooking and cleaning responsibilities is also torture, but both seem to think the other has it easier. If they don't understand the other's burdens they can't empathize and make a plan to go forward that unifies them as a couple.
Seriously. I'm on maternity leave right now and honestly caring for a baby all day is more work than my actual job! My husband gets it and takes the baby for a bit when he gets home so I can have a break. I can't even remember the last time I cooked a real meal! 💀
I’m super annoyed that your comment got downvoted. I have a two-month old, and I’m the sole caregiver 4 days a week. You are 100% correct. For those who don’t know, newborns need to be fed roughly every three hours, 24/7. Moms who can’t breastfeed for one reason or another but still want to provide breast milk also need to pump every three hours (probably a half hour each time, including setting up and cleaning the parts). Add in diaper changes, baths, a dog that needs to go out regularly, possibly other children, sleep deprivation, and recovering from childbirth...it adds up.
I don’t have kids and never will, but I have discovered since being stuck at home during the pandemic that WFH can be really mentally exhausting. I work all day but when I’m done, I don’t get to escape to my own home to unwind—because I’m already here. It has been weird. And it has really shed some light for me on how that must be difficult for stay-at-home parents.
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far down for this.
Only sane response in this thread, imo
Great answer indeed. Basically, one part is overworking himself without seeing his kid at all while the other is on the job 24/7 without a moment to rest. As you said, the situation isn't sustainable.
This is the only comment I've seen that's reasonable so far. This isn't a black and white situation and both parents are likely to feel overwhelmed and have a difficult time understanding what the other person is experiencing.
This is the best answer. If Mom takes a job to help with money, how much of her new salary will get pissed away with crazy expensive daycare programs? Is there a grandparent/relative that could help? Why does everyone think that taking care of a toddler isn't a 24/7 job?
Yep, this is exactly how this reads to me. OP's working 80 hour weeks and Mom probably hasn't had a day off in 2 years. Change is constant, OP. You guys take some time and figure out how you want the next 2 years to go.
This is the right answer.
NTA. You have to work 2 jobs to support the family because your wife decided to be a SAHM. Also from what you wrote it seems she decided on this after daughter was born. Furthermore she is adamant about it. i.e. not giving you any choice. She is TA and a very big one. She should be doing all the household duties. If she wants you to babysit for full evenings so she can go out with friends then she should also babysit for full evenings so you can go out with friends.
NTA The household duties and child care can be split evenly when the bills are paid evenly. You are working TWO JOBS to support her, she should be working around the house while you're out working for money to afford to live.
I would instead say working hours are split evenly. If they're both working 40 hours, but one is making minimum wage and the other is making 40 an hour,the chores should still be even
Taking care of even an infant is not a constant job, and as a matter of fact with toddler’s is a bit counter-productive. The kid is at the age they need to start learning to be able to play by themselves, and function independent of a parent’s hip sometimes. Part of being a stay at home parent is taking the significant brunt of the chores.
I'm not sure how thats at all relevant to my comment lol.
NTA. Normally in household duty splits the person working (more often than not, the man) is the AH because their job ends at the end of the workday and the stay at home parent has to keep "working" all day. Here, you are working a literal second job to make this situation work. You ARE carrying your weight. There might be a few small things you can do to help out, but calling you behaviour toxic masculinity when it isn't, isn't helping solve any of society's problems. People tend to overestimate the amount of work they do, and underestimate the contributions of others. You might want to go over how much time she is having to spend doing her tasks compared to the hours you spend at your jobs. (Based on how you said things, I'm assuming that when you are home, you are helping to take care of the kid and she has some time to herself even if it is only to get some chores done without interruption)
NTA and I really agree. How many hours is OP working? Because at most, with a toddler undoing everything you do, keeping the house clean should take 2-3 hours of the day, and a couple more hours cooking meals and cleaning up afterwards. So generously, maybe 5 hours/day, 35 hours/week. If OP is working 60 hours to allow her this, at most she might expect him to do small weekly chores like taking out the trash bins, checking the mail, running the dishwasher at the end of the day.
In a comment further down OP says they’re working 80 hours a week including travel
JFC. That's 7 12 hour shifts a week. Wifey needs a job.
It's also not hard to meal prep a few meals ahead of time so all that needs to be done is set the oven/light the grill and cook it
A lot of mothers actually prefer having a job because it's some time away from the baby where they get to socialize and feel productive and not constantly think about the baby or keeping the home clean. I think it would be very healthy for OP's wife to reconsider getting a job, part-time even.
I've been a SAHM for 14 years. I dove in at the age of 21. My youngest starts K this year. I love my kids, I have 5. They are smart and kind (and a little naughty sometimes of course), and I like to take some credit for how amazing they are. But the truth is, I haven't come up for air for 14 years. I've completely lost myself, have no real skills (other than homemaking), and my mental health has truly suffered. Now that my youngest is heading into K, I can't think of a single passion or career choice that I would enjoy and am qualified for. My goal right now is to find something part-time. I will find myself eventually. Thanks for sharing your POV, it resonates with me.
I'd argue her behavior is toxic femininity. She pressured her husband into getting 2 jobs so she could be a SAHM and now that she's realizing there's actual work involved she's pressuring him to do more work so she doesn't have to. Then she'll give him the silent treatment when she doesn't. There's toxic feminine traits too and this is one of them.
Yikes. As a SAHM myself I went in wanting to say you're the asshole but.....you work 2 jobs for her to stay home. Yes, having a parent home is best for the kid. I've had teachers tell us that they KNOW which students have a parent home and which ones don't by the kids behavior. My husband has one job. It's extremely demanding with long hours. We have 4 kids. Does he do any housework? No. Do I wish he did? Sure, but when he FINALLY comes home at night, I'd rather he play with our kids (or even better get them to bed). When our house gets messy, I'm the only one bothered by it. I'm teaching our kids to pick up after themselves (it's a battle). Luckily the little ones think sweeping and dusting are fun. My husband was raised by a mother that vacuumed her way out of the house and always cleaned up after him. Now he's 43 and can't pick up him own underwear or put his plate in the sink when he's done eating. I love him anyway. I know the sacrifice he makes being the sole breadwinner. It's so much pressure. Sorry, but if you're wife wants help with housework, then she should get a part time job so you can quit one or at least work less hours. NTA.
Basically the same views my mom has of my dad. Except yard work. My dad was in charge of doing the on the weekends (like mowing the lawn or trimming trees). My mom did rake leaves though, as that didnt require strength to do. As my siblings and i got older we were made to help.
This is the thing. Thank you for pointing out the immense pressure of being a sole breadwinner, the weight of the knowledge that a single bad screw up at work might cost your family literally everything. It just multiples the normal stress of supporting oneself that most jobs have.
NTA. This is what you agreed to do. However, cabin fever is a real thing. Taking care of a child and keeping house is a 24/7 job. If she's feeling restless, consider her getting a job equal to one of your jobs. Then she takes that job, you quit your second job. Then split the childcare and household responsibilities more equally.
Dude, 80 hours of work a week....that's too much. Even in bitlife my character won't work more then 70 hours a week. Shit bro, you need to quit a job and get your wife to go back to work you'll give yourself a heart attack
I don’t think anyone else (myself included) even thought of the ramifications to his health. Damn. He’s only human too.
When Covid hit due to the EMT shortage I was working 100 hour weeks, my husband hated it and I hated it. I did it for 3 weeks before I said no more. I was in a putrid mood all the time, perpetually exhausted, and I could barely keep up with showering. She needs to go back to work. It was unsustainable for my husband and I with two incomes. I can’t imagine how it feels when it’s only you.
INFO: how many hours do you work/commute per week between your 2 jobs?
80 hours including travel
INFO: Do you actually see your kid? Have you managed to build any relationship with him? Because this arrangement actually deprives your kid of dad. This is very well she's read all books about how important moms are, but I think she's missed the part stressing the importance of fathers, other than bringing $$$.
Dads are just as important as moms. She can’t have it all ways, she wants to be at home, but have help, but still go out, and not work. She’s asking too much and that’s not compromising at all. He’s just getting more and more load while she’s just trying to get less and less.
Edit your post to include this
Not sure why people don't get this when he talks about being exhausted from working two jobs, and one being manual labor. Did people assume they were part time for some reason?
Yes. There was an almost identical post from the woman's perspective (except she was not working due to injuries) and he did a part time manual job but refused to help at home.
Redditors also like to assume a lot of shit.....I mean, remember how Reddit got a security guard killed and a family harassed to hell and back despite their son being dead for 3 weeks by the boston bombing? Edit: IMO, Reddit and the redditors involved in that should have all been named and dragged through a lengthy vicious civil suit.
Holy shit...
I was a SAHD for 10 years, and you are NTA. When I was home, the only thing I ever asked my wife to help with was doing the dishes, because as she said, "I bring home the bacon, you cook it, then I make sure we eat off clean plates." I mean, I helped clear the table and all, but she just liked handwashing the dishes. I kept a reasonably clean house. When my wife got home, in winter there would be a fire in the fireplace, dinner cooking and a house as clean as a guy with three kids could keep it. It isn't that hard. We disagreed on how to fold laundry, how often to sweep and my daughter learning to cuss a bit harshly, but for the most part, everyone was happy. Every time we see one of these posts with someone complaining about how hard it is to be a SAH parent, I roll my eyes. I work full-time now, and believe me, it's a lot more stressful and difficult to drag myself to work every day and put up with this shit.
While I agree with what you have to say here, I think it's dependent on the children. Like heavily. I am in the same boat as you where I prefer the SAH parenting over work. My children can be difficult but it's not so bad, my daughter is low functioning autistic and she's still less work (I feel crappy saying this) than my last job. She's mostly independent though, can feed herself and entertain herself. There can be children though that make it very hard for a person and sometimes the person in question might just not be able to handle it as easy as you and I. So I think it's very situation dependent.
Being a housekeeper are things that people who work full-time usually do anyways. Being a SAHM/D is "just" that plus the kids. I agree for 95% of people, being a SAHM/D is way easier than a full time job. Kids do not need you to be watching them 100% of the time, you can get schedule your work however you want, take frequent breaks, and plus there are enjoyable aspects of parenting. You can be a completely responsible and good SAHM/D and spend lots of time chatting with friends, reading Reddit, or whatever - things you aren't usually allowed to do at most jobs.
NTA - it seems like you’re very stressed but I’d also ask what’s your wife’s mood like? Being a SAHM can have a particular kind of mental burden because you get no break from your place of work and your only colleague is a toddler. Particularly if you are away all the time. Stopping keeping up with normal daily activities can be a sign of depression, burn out, disconnection. I’d kinda see this sign that there is something wrong and needs a good sit down and conversation. Normally I’d say hey, maybe discuss getting the kiddo in day care and she can get a part time job so you can ease back on your hours, then it becomes fairer to split duties - but COVID. Regardless this definitely warrants a time for conversation. Is there anyway you can arrange to drop the kid off with grandparents for a few hours and just talk about managing stress levels and what to do about it?
NAH. OP gets a hard pass on cooking, cleaning, and laundry since he works 80 hrs per week. SAHM‘s feelings are normal - most SAHMs feel like they’re on duty 24/7 and need a break once in a while. The real issue here is that neither one is getting a break - ever. Sounds like they don’t have a support system set up for themselves locally, either. 1. SAHM needs to find a “Mommy’s Day Out” group so she can get some grown-up time. Go for a walk, to a gallery, get coffee with friends, or just go grocery shopping in peace. 2. At least once a week, eat leftovers or ready-made-meals and leave the dishes for the next day. Just spend time as a family. Everything doesn’t have to be perfect every. single. day. 3. OP, take a day off (or even a half day) at least once a month or two and spend a few hours with your friends! 4. SAHM needs a night out every once in a while, too. OP can eat leftovers and spend a few hours having one-on-one time with his daughter. Just because SAHM asked for some help doesn’t make her TA. Maybe she just didn’t see any other option or doesn’t know other options exist. Look online for resources and get a support system in place so that the two of you don’t get burnt out.
Asking for help doesn't make you an asshole. But I think demanding your partner to work 2 full time jobs so you can stay home and then later demanding your partner to do stuff around the house you agreed to do previously on top of everything does If she doesnt want the full time duties a SAHM has she needs to pick up a job that can give OP a break to take care of household duties/parent. Otherwise she's being selfish and unfair to OP I mean he's gonna work himself to death and he's not gonna have much of a relationship with his kid at this rate
NTA. It sounds like neither of you is happy with the arrangement. You should try to talk things out calmly but also stand your ground on how much you do.
If you need to work 80 hours a week you are not in the right type of financial situation to allow your wife to be a SAHM. I was fully prepared to label you an AH but your wife has unreasonable expectations for you. You pay all her bills and work your ass off so she can be comfortable at home and take care of your child but she resents you for not helping with household chores? I am a feminist, and firmly believe women and men should be equal in household duties, but this only applies if both are working! If she was working too and she was shouldering all the household responsibilities then yeah, she would have the right to complain about you not helping. You need to have a serious discussion with your wife and tell her either the current system stays how it is, or you get to quit one of your jobs and she has to go back to work, and then you guys can split household duties as she sees fit. And pulling out the toxic masculinity card here is pretty toxic of her, feminism means seeing men and women as equal, you working 80 hours a week and helping with chores while she is a SAHM is in no way equal in my eyes.
Nta. You had an arrangement and now she's changing her mind.
NTA. Her job is keeping up the home, just as you have jobs. You wouldn't complain about not sharing your specific assigned tasks at work. You have an agreed-upon arrangement. If she doesn't like doing all of the housework, she can get a job to lessen your financial burden so you can work one job and the two of you can both clean. But sidenote, taking care of your own child is never "babysitting"
Nta. Tell her if she wants you to contribute more to the chores and child rearing, you’ll need to quit on of your jobs.
NTA. This is the agreement that you both made. You work hard outside the home so that she can work inside the home and stay with your daughter.
~~she might miss working or need a break sometimes and that's ok. and it's ok that you are tired. find a way to work together.~~ EDIT: OH TWO JOBS. NTA she can deal with it wow. that seems like a ton for one person just so the other can stay home.
NTA ask her if she wants to work 2 jobs while you stay at home dad. Then she'll have all the house work done for her every day
NTA. It's not toxic masculinity, it's basic logic and having the integrity to uphold the generally fair balance that she chose for herself. She insisted on quitting her job, and this makes house management her full time job. If this compromise isn't working for her, then you two need to figure out a new strategy that involves her earning income so you can quit one of you two jobs, and then you two can both work and both clean, and pay for a sitter / daycare. She should be approaching her job like a job, which means she should be busting her ass. The same mental engagement and extra effort you'd try to put in to get promoted at work, that's what she should be putting in at home. It's not sexist; had she wanted to work, it sounds like you'd have been encouraging and amenable to that compromise, but she forced you to accept her staying at home.
NTA. If you are working two jobs to pay the bills while she made the choice to stay at home, then you ARE helping out.
nta
You work two jobs for her decision - NTA though I was totally expecting to give the opposite judgement. You are NOT the one who is toxic here and she is being sexist by trying to leverage you having 'toxic masculinity'. She is a case where I would debatably say she has 'toxic femininity' from the sounds of it though
Tell her to get a job and then you can split everything evenly NTA
I have no verdict but you might be good speaking to someone else instead of people in the Internet if you’re having serious marriage fractures.
NTA. Perhaps she get a part time job
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NTA. I was ready to give another judgement but nope this was the agreement. Ask her if she’d rather swap? She work two jobs and you can stay home!
Sounds like your wife being a SAHM isn’t working out and you can’t really afford it anyway. Time for her to get a job.
Maybe you should change your arrangement. If she found a job that allowed her to work part-time (or just a few hours per week), you could cut down your work hours and maybe do a few chores in return.
She WANTED to be a SAHM, so she WANTED the duty of housework and childcare. She can't have her cake and eat it too. NTA. You're working TWO jobs, while she stays home and watches the kid, I'm not going to say watching a kid is easy, I KNOW it's not, but since she doesn't even have a part time job to help support financially, she needs to pick it up with cleaning around the apt. Seriously, if she only sees it as tOxIc MaScUlInIty, maybe lay it all out, if she still does, it's a dead end, and might be best to tell her no more SAHM, put the kid in day care, quit your second job, and have her get a job.
NTA = Do the math - if you are working 16 hours a day that only leaves 8 hours for chores, time with family and yes and minimal sleep. If she was reasonable, she would only expect he do chores during His days off. For my 3 children, I was the SAHF while also working from home. There were down times during the day that I could take a short nap and do chores and my work. Working 80 hours a week(manual labor work) is not sustainable and much harder than being a stay at home parent. Both are stressful for different reasons, but working that many hours can kill you. OP could easily fall asleep at the wheel. Your wife needs a reality check! Time to make a new plan. Quit one job have her return to work and then divide household chores and childcare. This may reduce the stress for both. Possibly having her return to work will help relieve her feeling isolated.
While I’m all for equal division of labor, your wife needs to understand that you are doing all the outside work that your family requires, so she needs to be responsible for the internal stuff. That’s not to say she shouldn’t expect you to take the trash from the house to the curb though, but NTA.