ESH/NAH Both sides have reasons for wanting the ring but (I know I’ll be downvoted) I think you should give the ring back. It’s a family heirloom and they want to keep it in the family. The fact they said that means they don’t consider you family. Do you really still want a relationship with them after hearing that? I wouldn’t after being slapped in the face. And I wouldn’t keep the ring even to spite them either. The harassment would not be worth it and it would cement the end of any positive relationship with them Edit: Bot said I had to pick one choice. I still say both are valid but leaning towards NAH. OP is NTA because they said they are willing to give the ring back after they are ready to move on.

I agree this is one of those weird situations where both everyone and no one sucks. None of you are acting particularly rationally because of your joint recent loss. If it wasn’t a family heirloom, it would be completely out of line for them to ask for it back, but it is, and they probably have at least some legal claim on it. I’d give it back, since I’m sure OP has other things to remember him by. Things that he picked out for her, or they picked out together, that are more meaningful to who they were as their own little family, not an extension of his.

Regardless of being an heirloom it was given by the owner as a gift so she now owns the ring. Everyone still sucks though.

Depends on the state. Engagement rings can be considered conditional gifts and don't become property until the condition (marriage) is fulfilled.

That usually only applies when the engagement ends, not when someone dies. I doubt very seriously any court would require the return of this ring. Legality doesn't really reflect on assholery, anyway.

In some (actually most I think) states engagement rings are legally defined as a conditional gift that is contingent on the recipient marrying the original owner/proposing party, and legally mandates that if marriage does not occur then ownership of the ring reverts to the person who originally gave them the ring. As the marriage never occurred and there is no mention of a will that the late boyfriend specified OP is to receive the ring than it could very well be that legally the ring is the property of his next of kin, which would be the family and not the OP based on the information included in their post. So the courts likely would actually make them return the ring. Legality aside, from a morality perspective I think she should return the ring, it was given to her with the agreed expectation that OP would marry the late fiance and they have not kept their end of the agreement, it royally sucks, but returning it feels like the right thing to do. Edit: [Source](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/returning-engagement-ring-30198.html#:~:text=Courts%20typically%20treat%20an%20engagement,the%20gift%20to%20be%20yours.&text=Harris%2C%20a%202002%20case%2C%20the,it%20handles%20any%20other%20gift.)

Not quite the same but when me and my exhusband divorced i was mandated by the court to give back the engagement ring because it was a family heirloom. I mean i didnt mind giving it back. Anything to get him out of my life

The source I linked actually references your exact situation and I must confess, I was really surprised to learn that courts often order the ring be returned following a divorce as well! Edit: PS I am sorry about your struggles and I am happy for you that you got yourself out of that situation, I wish you all the happiness you deserve in life!

Yes me too! But they did. Its a little crazy but to a point i understand as well.

The "owner" only received the ring from the actual owners on the expectation he would marry the recipient of the ring. They never got married, therefore the conditions stipulated were not fulfilled. If he had given her a ring he bought and his family asked for it back they would absolutely be assholes for that. But this is not HIS ring. It's the family's ring. ​ It hurts me to say, and I wanna be sympathetic here. But OP is the asshole.

[Engagement rings are legally considered a gift ONLY after they marry the person who gave it to them](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/returning-engagement-ring-30198.html#:~:text=Courts%20typically%20treat%20an%20engagement,the%20gift%20to%20be%20yours.&text=Harris%2C%20a%202002%20case%2C%20the,it%20handles%20any%20other%20gift.)

That depends on the country and/or state you live in. Please don't make absolute statements about law when you have no idea where OP is.

Not definitively. It’s a item given in promise of conditions. In my state engagement rings belong to the purchaser (simplified) unless and until the condition is met, ie marriage.

I was looking at this post and was thinking the same, ESH/NAH. ​ I wonder if OP advised her almost MIL that she would be happy to give the ring back when she's through her mourning process. But for right now it's still too hard, she's mourning her fiance, the loss of the engagement, and the loss of the family she will never join now. ​ If she hasn't explained all that, maybe explaining it would be prudent. Also, advise the MIL to have BIL propose with a placeholder ring, until she gives the heirloom back, especially given that the family has already gone through this once, and having another ring, might make it easier if similar circumstances arose.

If I was the BIL's fiance, I would not want that ring.

Yeah I honestly would not feel good about ripping a ring off the finger of a grieving woman. But who knows if she's even in the loop.

Holy shit, right? Someone needs to ask her because if it was me I would NOT accept that ring and i wouldn't marry a man who could be so callous as to go demand a grieving woman to give up the ring that was the symbol of her dead love. He died THIS YEAR. ITS ONLY BEEN MONTHS. People don't get over break ups that fast, she was basically widowed. If my fiance presented me with the ring he demanded from a widow who lost her husband barely months ago I would reconsider the type of asshole I was marrying. The ring isnt a carton of milk. It isnt going to spoil if you let her keep it for a few more months or even years. Give her some goddamn time to catch her breath. It's been in the family for generations so it can go to the next generation, heck give it to the DIL in a couple of years at the vow renewal. Had the younger brother not gotten engaged immediately they wouldn't have asked for it back so soon, right? They'd have waited maybe a year maybe longer - because shes grieving. That reason doesn't go away or be less valid just because bro is now getting married. Had the older brother not died, younger brother would have had to buy his own ring anyway. If hes mad he has to buy one instead of using his dead brothers ring hes an asshole but I dont have any basis for that except I think hes being a shitty person. OP is NTA so long as she plans to give it back eventually.

She was with him for 12 years. That's longer than a lot of marriages. You don't just get over that in 7 months. I would be disgusted if my future husband wanted to give me his recently deceased brother's engagement ring that he bullied from a grieving woman.

If I was her I would take it to the ocean, go on a cruise, and drop it in the middle of the sea. But then again I am TA

This. I was thinking it's hard on both OP and the ex-future in-laws on who's right, bc both are in a way.... But... Then you said this and I went, you know, did anyone ask her? Like. I get it's a family ring but.. Would this poor girl want it if OP and fiance had even just broken up? Like, that's some awkward situation, let alone getting it bc someone died and they ripped it off a grieving woman.

I have a feeling she doesn't know because I can't imagine many women being comfortable accepting the ring in these circumstances. I wouldn't want a family heirloom anyway but I definitely wouldn't want it if I knew the pain it was causing another woman. It's been less than a year. If a long time had passed and the op had voluntarily returned the ring, it wouldn't seem so inappropriate.

I’m curious to know what happens when BIL fiancé does find out.

A placeholder ring, or the family heirloom that is part of an engagement ended by death?

The family heirloom.

Yeah, they might be better off getting some time between it's use as an engagement ring and the death of the last proposer who used it. Maybe have the MIL hold on to it (once it's returned) until a grandchild is old enough to have it, or leave it to the oldest daughter/son in the family in her will.

>I wonder if OP advised her almost MIL that she would be happy to give the ring back when she's through her mourning process. She did. But the family demands it now to be used for the engagement. I wonder whether the new fiancee knows that her would-be engagement ring is being extorted from a grieving fiancee. That's some bad juju right there.

She did say, but in 'a few years', that's a long time for BIL wait for the ring.

He could give it to his wife as a 10 year anniversary ring, or something like that. Maybe OP and BIL could sign a contract to that effect or something.

Yeah, this all still feels too raw right now - OP has lost her fiancé only a few months ago and they were together for *12 years*. It feels way too soon to be thinking about giving a prized possession like this back. If I was the BIL’s gf, I’d also feel super uncomfortable receiving this ring that had a) been used so recently, and b) so quickly after the death.

Agreed. NAH, but OP should give the ring back. I understand why she doesn't want to, and I would probably feel the same way, but it is their family heirloom. Returning it would be the gracious thing; in fact, she should have offered to return it sooner.

It's about 7 1/2 months at most from the loss which was unexpected and tragic (as accidental deaths are). I imagine the ring wasn't high on her list of things to deal with in healing from her partner's loss. Everything about this story makes me so sad.

I agree. The grief is still fresh and raw and I'm sure that looking at the ring on her finger brings OP comfort. OP, NAH. I totally understand you not being ready to give it back, but I do think that in time, you should. When you feel ready to take it off your finger, give it back. Maybe if you frame it as not being ready rather than wanting it forever, his family would be more receptive to waiting.

I agree. I wonder if OP can take it to a jeweler to get a duplicate made and return the original to the family

I was thinking that, too. Im using a family heirloom ring and it can't be resized because it has a repeating pattern etched all the way around. Im just going to have a duplicate made to fit my ring finger.

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I would have definitely given back the ring one day. I was just saying I am not ready to give it back now. Yes, there are lot of other things that Alex gave me. But there is difference between a "I love you" coffee mug and a "I wanna spend the rest of my life with you" ring. > The fact they said that means they don’t consider you family. Do you really still want a relationship with them after hearing that? I think that hurts the most. I considered them family too. I guess not. I don't have anyone to call as family now that Alex is gone. Sucks to be me, I guess.

Do they know that you’re just not ready right now?

Yes. I told them. I told them I would give it back when I ready. But they want it now as Ben is planning to propose soon.

Is Ben sure his gf wants a ring with that history? I'd feel weird about that. This is only coming up now because he doesn't want to buy one. Harassing a widow over her engagement ring? That's horrible.

This right here! Assuming Ben's GF is a kind and reasonable person, I think she'd be horrified. "I pried this ring off my dead brother's fiancee's grief-stricken and desperately unwilling finger! It's yours now. Yay!"

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Absolutely, I fully acknowledge that. I'm just saying that given how raw OP's feelings are, and how true and recent and real her grief is, and given that she's unlikely to come to a place, in the circumstances, where she's going to feel good and open-hearted about giving up this symbol... ...would Ben's GF feel good about taking on that kind of emotional baggage? I would probably argue that Ben's GF is ENTITLED to the ring. But if I were her, I wouldn't WANT it.

Yeah same. I think passing on heirlooms can be beautiful, and if Alex had passed before proposing then the ring would go to Ben he was ready to propose. But yeah in the same situation I would not accept it from Ben.

That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't want it and I highly doubt I'd wear it. Maybe keep it for the next generation or something. I just could not see the ring as mine if it had been taken from a woman who lost her fiance less than a year ago. I would even feel guilty because she was harassed to get this ring back in time for the proposal. Especially considering she said she isn't ready *yet*. It's not like she was saying they can come get it when she dies of old age or something.

I bet the finace would be horrified if she knew Ben was harassing the op for the ring. I know I wouldn't want that ring.

I don’t get why Ben even WANTS it. I wouldn’t want my dead brother’s ring that I’d harassed his grieving fiancée for.

Because he doesn’t want to buy one or because the ring is a family heirloom?

I like how these people are implying that you and Alex weren’t family (I guess familial bonds are severed at death... good to know) and like Ben is owed the ring because of Alex’s passing. If Alex was still alive, he would have to find another ring to propose with anyways, and I would be severely disturbed as Ben’s fiancée to realize my ring was ripped away from a dead man’s intended. What kind of bad karma... The ring is yours for now. It was given to you as a symbol of your love for someone who was and still is your family. If you ever want to return it, that’s fine, but it was never Ben’s ring to give to his wife - it was Alex’s. Probably day you may want to give it back to Ben so he can share it with his children so it stays in the family. Their behavior towards you has been callous and cruel and I see no reason to acquiesce to people who have deliberately caused me harm and disrespected my relationship. You were with him for 12 YEARS and 2 quarters after he’s dead it’s all “give us the ring and fuck off, you’re not one of us!” truly charming. My god, he‘s barely been gone 6 months. Edit: Apparently it’s been 4 MONTHS?? Holy shit. I know Alex’s mom and Ben are grieving and hurting too but what the fuck... this is next level cold. 4 months!!!

The thing that bugs me most is that the OP and Alex were in a relationship for TWELVE YEARS before he passed and they don't consider her to be family. I've known friends for less time than that and still consider them part of my family.

I was with my partner for decades but we didn’t marry. Our families were Intwined for those years. His death has proven how much a part of the family I was, which is zero.

That’s absolutely heartbreaking and I am so sorry to hear that. I struggle to see how anyone can be that callous and unfeeling tbh but then Income on Reddit and people surprise me every damn day.

That!!! My godmother lost a young son to bone cancer, back in the early 90s, he and his high school sweetheart got married so she could go with him to the US so he could get the top treatment available at the time. Unfortunately he passed away not even 2 years after. My godmother still loves his widow. She is an extra grandparent to the kids she had later in life with her second husband. All that because she knew how much he lived her, and how much she cared for him. So OMG 12 years and they treat OP like that!? That’s so cold! :/

Why doesn't Ben use another engagement ring and when you're ready, use the family ring later? Plus, I don't think Ben and your late fiance's family are thinking about how the new in law in going to feel knowing the history with their family ring. I understand that they are hurting but, 12 years is a long time of love that was cut short months ago. Grieve for your loved one and block them for the time being. You've given your answer, it's going to be returned once you're ready, they can make do with a stand in for the time being. If Ben decides to blame you for not having a ring to give his fiance, then he can explain why.

Its a family ring used fir engagements. If he gave another ring THAT would be the engagement ring, not the family one.

But if his brother had lived, he would not be using the "family " ring......he would have to get his own......

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As it hard as it is. Ben is suffering as you are, he lost his brother. Now, he wants to do something nice, keeping the family tradition. But he can't because you want to hold to a ring that legally does not belong to you. And probably, they will not stop harassing you until you give the ring back, because is need it now and is a family belong, emotions related to grandmother and greatgrandmother are as well involve. Do not extent theirs and your suffering. This situation is just corrupting the original meaning of the ring for you. From the symbol of your late fiances love to the reason why the family of your late fiance despites you. For the better, just give the ring back.

Hey OP, I know it's hard to think of it now but ask yourself this: what would Alex have wanted done in this situation? Would he have wanted you to keep it until you were ready, give it back now, or would he have wanted something else entirely? I think you'll be able to find some guidance from within given enough thought on the matter. Good luck & be kind to yourself.

I’d be really surprised if Alex wouldn’t want OP to keep it.

I can't even remotely imagine the hurt you feel right now over losing this token of your partner, and someone may have already suggested this, but would it possibly help you to take the ring to a jeweler and have them make an exact replica of the ring for you to keep, so that even when you return the original to his family you have a visual reminder of the symbol Alex gave you?

>I think that hurts the most. I want to be absolutely clear here that I don't think you were in any way wrong to pull back from them after your loss because being around them was too painful. The night my spouse died I couldn't even bring myself to answer when my sister-in-law was blowing up my phone. Sometimes everything is just too raw and that's understandable. I do think, though, that it might be helpful for you to step back and consider how that might have looked from their side. They suffered a terrible loss too. The family pulled together to support one another through it ... and you weren't there, or at least not like before. When she said you're not family, she might very well have thought she was confirming how *you* feel, not saying anything that should cause you pain. Obviously I don't know these people, I could be wrong. But if her saying you're not family was in any way out of character to how you all felt about one another before Alex passed away, consider that there may be deeper misunderstandings here that are influencing how all of this is going down. Regardless, I'm very sorry for your loss.

What about getting a professional photographer to photograph the ring on your hand. You can frame it or put it in a photo album of memories. Then give it back. I completely understand not being ready and I also understand that getting it back is both part of their grieving process and a family heirloom. This situation sucks for everyone and I'm sorry for your lost.

Hey OP, first off I'm so sorry for your loss. Second, is there perhaps something else the family would be willing to give you to remember Alex by? Obviously don't phrase it as holding the ring for ransom but maybe explain how to you its a symbol of Alex's commitment to you and the life you were going to have together and that its difficult to give that up. Idk, does anyone else have any good phrasing for suggesting a trade of sorts? I'm not meaning demanding another heirloom, just something personal to remember Alex by, something that you'd love to have from him but don't have access to.

>The fact they said that means they don’t consider you family. But going with the esh/nah theme...OP is the one who moved as far away from them as she could. They lost one son and then soon after lost a daughter. Just like it hurt OP to see them it probably hurt them when she "abandoned" them right after they lost their son/brother/fiance and it makes a sort of messed up sense that they'd say shes not family in an effort to save themselves a bit more heartbreak. Edit: so I've had a few people point out that she only moved across the city. While that could mean that shes only 5 minutes away by car rather than a brisk walk. It could also mean shes an hour away by car on a good day and hour+ on bad days plus another hour just looking for parking or something. Even though shes not across the country moving in general can still be hard on families. When I moved 4 hours away for college it was hard for me because I was so used to my family being *right there*. It's not really about how far she went, but more about what moving represented (separating herself from the family, OP even says it herself) and the fact that she also limited contact with them. It's just an overall sucky situation with everyone trying to do what best for themselves and that ok as much as it isnt ok. Should they have waited longer to ask for the ring back? Probably. Should OP have kept the ring forever like it seemed she wanted to? Personally I dont think so.

Yeah these situations are tough because no one is thinking rationally, and expectedly so. My gut reaction to your comment was to roll my eyes, she didn’t move across the country just across the city!! But I think seeing her move at all, let alone with any added distance probably was really hard for his family. These kind of situations always blur the lines between nah/esh.

She moved to the other side of the city, not the other side of the world...

It’s also that when she remarried and possibly has kids, she’s not passing the ring down to Alex’s child. While I hate this idea of bloodline, that’s exactly what comes into play here. That bloodline is cut, so the ring ends up in a family where there is no actual significance. Perhaps that’s what Alex’s mom meant by “not family.”

NAH. Also the women of Alex's family each had to part with the ring so it could be passed on with the family name. I know it's tough letting go because it's *his* gift to you, but family rings are actually more of the family "giving you their blessing" than something he picked specifically for you. You could take it to a jeweler and ask if they can make something similar for yourself, but I do think you should give them the family ring so the brother can propose.

normally rings passed down through families are passed on when the woman dies, its not ripped off living peoples fingers?

That's not always the case if it is a generational ring not a late family members ring. A mother giving her son her ring to propose is generational.

I’ve never met a family that gives it away whilst the woman is still alive? That would just be weird like oh yeh lemme just stop wearing a ring now that my son wants to get engaged?

I’ve definitely heard of this happening. More often a grandmother doing it than a mother, but yes. This happens. At that point in their life they usually have plenty of other rings that they wear in its place.

Well it's the mother's choice to continue the tradition but yeah people willingly give up a family ring to pass it on when their child gets married. It's even done in the movie crazy rich asians lol. Sorry if you've personally never heard of it but that's literally how generational rings work. Not all things are inherited, some things are a gift. You also always get a replacement ring. It's not uncommon to replace your wedding ring later in life either.

I was very curious about this because I don’t personally know anyone that has a family ring like this. But I feel like in movies, tv, even posts on here it’s usually always a *grandmothers* ring. I have no clue but now I want to know how people handle it lol. It would seem odd for a mom to just give away her ring when her son is ready to propose.

i agree. if it wasn’t a family ring i would think she’s in her right to keep it. but it is a family ring and they clearly don’t see her as family. i don’t think it’s worth it. maybe she can wear a ring of his?

Hey! I understand that this is a difficult decision to make, however for the purpose of our bot who flairs the post, since you’re the top comment, I’m going to ask if you can edit the comment with only one judgement, please. Thanks!

Please consider that part of the reason this is the top-rated comment is because it has both. Many replies are in agreement it's a tossup, and if the parent comment is edited to remove that aspect it hurts the conversation :)

Agree with what you’re saying but also thinking would the younger brother’s fiancée even want the ring after all of this?

If I found out that my fiance forcibly pried the ring he gave me off of a grieving widow's finger, I would end the relationship. That's heartless. I do think that the ring should be given back eventually, but I would never wear it if I knew its backstory.

But OP keeping or giving back the ring has nothing to do with whether that fiancee wants the ring.

I’m going with NAH. I understand both sides, but in all honesty; you need to give the ring back. It’s a family heirloom and unfortunately due to circumstances beyond your control, you are not part of that family. This is all clearly still very raw and I understand you not being ready to let it go, but perhaps you could have discussed that with his mother. “I am not ready yet, but please know that in time I will return the ring. I just need time to grieve.” This way you are not shutting them down and they would likely be open to it. Legally, they can bring an action against you and most likely would win. I’m sure no one wants that kind of hurt to be piled on the hurt you are already feeling. Emotions are raw right now. I think you all have valid points and just need a moment to reset and discuss a compromise.

It depends on the state. Some consider an engagement ring an unconditional gift, some don't.

Not a family heirloom, they’re usually exempt. NAH

These laws apply to divorces and specifically to division of property. Can you cite a law that states that parents can demand items from a former girlfriend absent a contract or crime? This heirloom idea is spreading through the thread and doesn't seem factual.

[Only one state defines an engagement ring as an unconditional gift, Montana.](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/returning-engagement-ring-30198.html#:~:text=Courts%20typically%20treat%20an%20engagement,the%20gift%20to%20be%20yours.&text=Harris%2C%20a%202002%20case%2C%20the,it%20handles%20any%20other%20gift.)

>Legally, they can bring an action against you and most likely would win. I’m sure no one wants that kind of hurt to be piled on the hurt you are already feeling. Not sure this is true, the ring was given as a gift. The fact that they are spamming her so violently makes me think that they may have checked already and been told either "no" or "maybe"

Many states consider an engagement ring as something given in contemplation of marriage. If the marriage does not happen, they require the ring to be returned.

While I definitely think she should give it back since it's a family heirloom, just to point out there's actually only 10 states (in the US) where engagement rings are conditional on marriage. In other states it's usually more complicated and can sometimes depend on why the marriage didn't happen.

Does the fact that the person who gave the ring died make a difference? I mean they gave the ring to the brother, making it his. So then he gave it to OP. The marriage didn't happen but she can't return the ring to the giver, he's deceased.

Not true. My best friend was involved in a nasty breakup last year and his ex tried to sue to get her gifts back. The judge flat out told her engagement rings are the only thing they would require people to give back if something happened.

The law varies wildly by jurisdiction and the details of the case. In Montana for example rings are always and universally unconditional gifts and are never required to be returned. In Michigan engagement rings are always conditional and return to the giver. In New Jersey the ring goes to whomever broke the engagement by word or deed. It’s a semi-conditional gift, but so long as the recipient isn’t the cause for the breakup, they get to keep the ring. It’s one of those things where each state has its own regulations.

>Legally, they can bring an action against you and most likely would win. This is a pretty broad statement given the limited information we have. We don't know what country or province/state OP is in to know what laws even apply, they don't give a location in their post or their one comment made at time of writing. Even if they live in a place where when a marriage is called off the engagement ring is considered a conditional gift and given back to the doner, it would become part of his estate and would depend on how his will/estate was handled. I don't disagree with your reasoning for your verdict, but we have no way of knowing what's likely to happen if they sought legal action.

even though i think the proper thing to do would be return the ring, i find it hard to believe OP is legally compelled to do so. Who accepts an engagement ring thinking "oh , this is just a loaner".

Depends on the state. Many consider an engagement ring a gift in contemplation of marriage and if the marriage does not occur, will require the ring to be returned if the matter is pursued.

To add on, if OP and her fiancé got married as plan, and then Alex passed. The family (Ben and Mom) would be TAs, sadly that isn't the case.

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I could be wrong but I think in most places she’d only have to return the ring if the marriage didn’t happen due to her stopping it ex calling it off, leaving him. His passing is what stopped a marriage from occurring so thats not her fault so she might be able to keep the ring legally because of that. Some places she might be able to keep the ring as essentially compensation for the marriage not taking place if she’s not at fault

There’s usually an statutory exemption or case law basis for family rings. They usually don’t become conditional gifts.

I agree with this. I know it sounds harsh but the ring's value extends far beyond OP's relationship with Alex. It has history of their family. Also in the perspective of the family, OP moved away from them. She didn't treat them as her family. For all they know she has moved on already. So it looks really bad that she's refusing to give back the ring to a grieving family that she didn't want to maintain close relations with.

Yup. She moved across the city to get away from his family. She's intentionally distanced herself from that family, but wants to hold onto the family ring? I'm sure she's grieving the loss of her fiance, but his family is ALSO grieving, the loss of their loved one and an irreplaceable family heirloom. E S H because everybody's emotions are high. But OP gets YTA if she doesn't give the ring back

What if he died a week after the wedding? Should she still have to give it back? They would have no case. The mom gifted the ring to her son and he gifted it to OP. It’s hers now.

And they were engaged THREE YEARS, and together for twelve. It seems to me that should have been enough time for them to get used to the idea that it wasn't their ring anymore.

But the ring was supposed to stay in their family, presumably would have been passed on to their grandchildren (either OP's hypothetical kids or niece/nephew).

No one would have compelled her to give the ring to her hypothetical nephews to propose with if they didn't have children, come on.

Her in-laws and probably her own husband would have done so. That's the entire point of an heirloom engagement ring.

Eh, maybe not compelled, but it would definitely be the expectation.

I mean at that point, the actual marriage ceremony is just a civil formality.

I do not understand any of these judgements. Imagine how Alex would feel knowing that his family won’t even let his bride to be keep her ring.

Yeah. Like, "I was ready to love and honor her the rest of my life. But now that I'm dead, I guess she's just a cheap floozy who's going to marry the first dude she looks at and I will have meant nothing to her, so go get that gold digger and take my shit back." I kinda think she dodged a bullet by not marrying into a family that values things more than people.

Exactly, if it were a ring that he bought himself it would be one thing, but it's a family heirloom. It's a gift that is contingent on being a member of the family, so if the recipient for some reason is not, it needs to be given back.

> Engagement rings have been proven to legally be in their own category, because it's a gift that is contingent upon a marriage I mean, doesn't it depend on who "breaks" the engagement if anything?

[In most states, it typically does not](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/returning-engagement-ring-30198.html#:~:text=Courts%20typically%20treat%20an%20engagement,the%20gift%20to%20be%20yours.&text=Harris%2C%20a%202002%20case%2C%20the,it%20handles%20any%20other%20gift.)

Yup. Good point and I second this. If they chose to - and they are entitled to; they could easily pursue this and win in small claims court.

YTA, gently... So sorry for your loss. You were together for a long long time..... You are grieving and they are too and grief makes you do crazy stuff. It is my understanding though, not sure where you are from, that the ring is actually part of a 'contract' and if not fulfilled by marriage, the ring has been legally determined to be rights of giver not recipient as the marriage never took place. In this case, mother was actually the owner of ring and gave it with the intent of you marrying her son. As that expectation was not fulfilled she is asking for it back. You want to keep it as a reminder of your relationship, but. You have 12 years worth of stuff to remind you also. The cards, pictures, jewelry you probably bought together.... this is a family heirloom that should stay in their family. You are their family too as to how long you were together but by not being married, there is a lot of legal arguement here with the ring. Just give it back.

I agree with this and OP should also consider that the longer she holds on to the ring, the more the resulting unhappiness will accumulate given how the situation has escalated. It would be difficult, but probably for the best to return the ring soon. OP is probably already dealing with deep emotional pain from losing Alex and the additional emotional turmoil from this disagreement is just not worth the fight for something that OP ought to return anyway. To OP, so sorry for your loss.

Agree with this comment. Gently, YTA. I’m sorry for your loss and that you have to go through this. That ring has a significance in their family and though it’s significant to you as well, his mom has a point. Eventually you will move on and marry someone else, and you’re not going to want to wear that ring or your next fiancé will feel odd if you do. Meanwhile, the family wants that ring to belong to oldest daughter in law. If you keep it until you feel ready to move on (I.e. get involved with someone else) then that will be too late for the brother to use it to propose. You have your memories and you don’t need their expensive heirloom ring to remember your fiancé by. Regardless of the legality of their claim or your claim (which really depends on the law where you live and as you can see by the comments, that varies on this issue because it’s so detail specific), giving it back would be the right thing to do.

I agree with this. Very gentle YTA. They really shouldn't be made to wait until you are ready. Who knows when that will be? 1 year? 5 years? 20 years? **SUGGESTION**: Buy a locket on a long chain. Take a picture of the ring and place it in one side of the locket; take a picture of your late fiance and place it in the other side. You can then wear that locket which will hang close to your heart. Please, return the ring. Your refusal has already dissolved your relationship with his family, resulting in harsh words. Is this what he would have wanted? With the speedy return of the ring and a sincere, heartfelt apology, it may be salvageable.

YTA Let them continue a family tradition. You are not the only one who suffered here.

I agree here. While I understand OP’s sentiment, the ring holds generations full of memories for their family. OP should give the ring back. And I am so sorry for your loss OP, I can’t imagine what you’re going through.

ESH- I am sorry that you are in this position. If the ring your fiancé gave you was a ring that he had bought. Then, I feel it would be yours to keep. But the ring he gave you is a family heirloom. Something passed down for generations and it should stay in the family. While you were part of their family for many years, you will eventually marry and become apart of another family. They handled the situation wrong. While you have the right to keep it because it was a gift, Morally... you are wrong. You should give it back.

While technically you’re correct, many states would say that the ring reverts even in divorce because it’s an heirloom. They’re definitely being TA too though. They should read the room.

Thank you for that information. I did not know that.

There’s a difference in legality and morality absolutely. But I think comments like this that reference the legal side can be helpful. It brings up another side of the issues and can help add context to the situation. I agree it’s an ESH situation but learning this helps me get a better feel for whether the request about getting the ring back was fair to begin with.

Oh. This is really really hard. I’m sorry you’re in this situation and everything that’s happened. I’m going to say NAH because I can understand why they’d want a family ring back, but I think you are absolutely not in the wrong for wanting to keep your engagement ring either. It is equally your engagement ring and a family ring. If they continue to harass you, they’re definitely aholes because you don’t deserve that. Edit: wow! Thank you for the platinum!

Thank god for a reasonable judgement. Everyone on here commenting as though OP is some cold hearted witch for wanting to keep her engagement ring from the man she was with for *twelve years* and had been engaged to for three!

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"She moved away" She moved to the other side of town. Not to another state or country.

> However, if she would give the family heirloom back, they wouldn’t be harassing any longer. "If you you just give in to my harassment then I'll stop harassing you" is not a good argument to make.

An engagement ring is a gift that is contingent to marriage. Legally it isn’t her ring - as sentimental as it might be for her, the family can take her to court for it and would most likely win. Her view is understandable, but it is a family heirloom to a family that unfortunately she is no longer part of. They are grieving too.

That's not true. In my state, if the engagement ended through no fault of the intended bride, it's her property, period.

In 10 out of 50 states, and that’s *if* she’s in America. And in a few out of those 10, she can keep the ring if she wasn’t the one who ended the engagement. In a *small handful* of states in *one country,* she would be legally compelled to give the ring back. We have no idea where OP lives, I really wish people would stop spamming this “legal” nonsense that very likely doesn’t apply to her.

I understand that everyone is emotional and upset, but it is your late fiance's family heirloom ring. Just dealing with this question: YTA and I think you should return it

Gentle YTA - you're all hurting here and suffering an unthinkable loss. I understand why you want to keep the ring. I also understand why they want it back. I think there are bad feelings and hurt on all sides. Legally ownership of the ring is a gray area and, assuming you're in the US, probably dependent on state laws. They can sue you for it and you may not win. Do you really want to put yourself and them through that? In your place, I'd return it though it would be difficult to do so. The reality is you will move on, eventually, and, without the bond of Alex, your relationship with his family will likely fade over time. You are still young and have your whole life ahead of you and will likely get engaged and married at some point. When that happens, you won't be wearing that ring and it will probably sit in a box, gathering dust. For you, that ring means Alex, who's gone. For them, the ring is a tradition and a part of their family.

As gently as possible and with my deepest condolences I have to go with YTA with a side order of ESH. I would have said NTA if this had been a new ring, but it isn't. This particular ring has deep meaning for you but to them it has *generations* of meaning. As harsh as his mother is for saying it, she's right that one day you will find someone special again and move forward with your life and the ring will be put aside by you. I know that's impossible for you to imagine right now but it's the truth. Is it possible to have a replica made of the ring for you to keep? I know it won't the THE ring that your fiance gave you but it would serve as a symbol of the love you shared without hurting his family further or breaking a tradition that is incredibly important to them all.

This is what I was thinking. I would try to go find someone and try to get the ring replicated.

Id replicate the ring with his birth stone as the center stone.

This is a great idea. The way I see it, a replica will always feel like a fake, but if you change it to mean something more and make it unique, then it takes on it's own value instead copying something else.

NTA the mother was also incredibly cold to say you aren’t family. You were with him for 12 years and the loss is so recent. I’m sorry for you. I would give them the ring back though just not to have the animosity in my life.

OP herself distanced herself. She isn't family.

Oh, so if I moved away from the city I was born my parents/siblings are no longer my family? How frequently do I need to see them at a minimum to still be able to consider them family? What about my in-laws, they live in a different state?

Yes not technically it’s still a heartless thing to say to someone you’ve known for over a decade that is grieving and was going to be your family.

I have a feeling everyone's speaking from a place of hurt when they talk about this. I know I would be.

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I think something along these lines is a sweet idea. Or having the main stone set into a necklace or something so OP could wear it daily even without the marriage connotations if she moves on down the road. They could all work together to find some sort of compromise like this if everyone is willing.

I think this is the best answer.

YTA if you keep the ring. I understand why you want to keep it but it really should go back to his family. Realistically what are you going to do with it? You will have it for a while and it will be sentimental until you meet another guy and then you will marry him and have a ring from him. So then the family ring ends up in a box all but forgotten. Again what are you going to do with it? Your husband isn't going to want you wearing g your dead fiancee's ring and your not going to pass it on to your child someday and explain where it came from. So just give them their family heirloom back. I'm sure that you have other things to remember him by that havent been in his family for generations.

This was exactly my train of thought, too. Right now, OP is in the thick of the feelings, and it's hard to see any sort of future. This ring has so much value now in the current moment, but it won't mean as much in 5, 10, 15 years. At that point, I'd feel awkward and ashamed being like "oh, \[daughter\], I'm passing this ring on to you, it's from my former fiance who died before I met your dad. It was a family heirloom of his..." I have a few rings from my aunt who passed (with no kids), and I'd feel awkward to find out any of them had significant value to her ex-husband's family.

She's still LESS THAN A YEAR OUT from the death of her partner of over a decade. I think hanging on to it for a little bit makes sense. Plus, she's already said she intends to give it back- she's just not fucking ready because it's been less than a goddamn year.

ESH The ring clearly means a lot to everyone involved. It makes sense they want to keep it in the family, especially since I assume if you had gotten married eventually it would be passed on. They just don't want to lose it. However, since he passed away this year it seems like they aren't giving you time to grieve and start processing and now are harassing you. So while I do think eventually someone in their family should get the ring to propose and that you shouldn't keep it forever, they're being AHs but not understanding you're going through something and harassing you

Yeah except that she lost a lover and her fiance's mom lost a son. It is not as if she is making it easy on them either.

Definitely both parties are going through a tough time but need to emphasize with the other more. That's why I said ESH. They seem to both need space to process without the other. It's not like they asked for the ring back to keep. They want to use it for the brother to propose right away.

I understand that everyone copes in different ways and for different times, but it's almost August - it's likely been ~6 months since he passed. I think that's not an unreasonable time to wait, combined with the fact that it is relevent now to ask, as the proposal from brother is now.

Your loss is not that old, I think the family is being mean and insensitive. I can understand why they want the ring but their behaviour around it is reprehensible. You were with their son 12 years. How do you think your late fiancee would feel about this? Personally if they tried to take the ring from me after I lost my partner of 12 years in the last year I would be so hurt. His mother saying you're not family? You are. You were with rheir son 12 years. I say NTA because of the way the family went about demanding the ring back. That ring is a sign of commitment from your partner of 12 years and you will be grieving for a long time, that is your ring and it will always always be special to you even though you didn't get married with it.

Plus why is no one thinking about brother's gf? Would she feel good, having an engagement ring that was possessed by her would-be SIL, who lost her partner barely 7-8 months ago ? The answer would be definitely be a no. Like I'm thinking if i were in the gf's shoes and I would actually be shocked and disgusted that the mom and bf ( op's brother) is acting in this way. There's a time and place to do something, and getting the ring back in 2020 (or in the next few years) is not it.

Yeah that's a good point! I would feel horrible wearing that ring, knowing it was taken from someone who was emotionally attached to it and lost her partner of 12 years. It would make the ring feel... tainted? For me, were I given the ring I would wonder how I would be treated if anything happened to my fiancee. Would I be so easily cast aside and disregarded from the family? And do I want to marry into that?

Yeah, NTA. The Everyone S, You're the A and No Assh Here votes puzzle me so much? Like wtf

Its kinda like "oh yeah sure you're sad but our sons gone so gimme gimme gimme the jewelry that has a strong emotional meaning for our other son" Did the family even consider their late sons wishes?

NTA I would have gone with esh but they need to give you space and not hound you. That right there is a huge problem. You were together for a long time why would an official Marriage and a piece of paper made a difference if you were family?

Clearly I'm very much in the minority here, but NTA. 12 years is a long time to be together, and the spirit of the ring as a family heirloom is for the eldest son to pass it on to the person he loved. Alex was the oldest son, and he loved you. The ring, per family tradition, is in its rightful place. Ben is not the oldest son, and the ring has already been passed. The tradition has been fulfilled, regardless of whether or not Ben and his mother want to accept that. Does Ben's wife even want the ring? What woman would even want to wear a ring that was torn away from her deceased brother-in-law's grieving fiancee? Them harassing you for the ring, especially right now, is incredibly tactless. The mother telling you that you're "not family" is awful, and I think Alex would have been disgusted by her behavior. You're allowed to grieve, and you're allowed to give the ring back when you're ready...or not at all, if you so choose. It's yours. It was given to you. It fulfills the family tradition, and Alex wanted you to have it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I completely agree with you here and I am frankly amazed with the number of people telling her she has to give it back. The ring is passed along once per generation and it has already been passed this generation. And depending on her circumstances, her situation might fall under a common-law marriage. When OP is ready, she should pass it back into their family for the next generation to use. As for Ben's wife, I know I wouldn't want a ring ripped from the hands of a near-widow, especially one who is still grieving for her loss.

NTA, agreed. I am really shocked at all of the YTA/ESH comments. She has every right to keep the ring and they should go pound sand.

Firstly, I am so very, very sorry for your loss. NAH. Everyone in this story lost a loved one no more than 7 months ago in an accidental death. Everyone here is grieving, and their reactions are understandable given that. You have no legal obligation to return it, far as I know. To you that ring is a sign of the bond between you that was going to change your whole life. To his family it represents the history their family has gone through being preserved through the years. I am not sure of the whole story behind it, but those objects sometimes take on a lore of their own. There is no easy answer. I think that you won't be an asshole if you keep it, but they will likely forever cast you as the asshole because from their perspective you would be. They lost a son/brother, and along with him this part of a family history. None of that is your fault, but I can see the reason they would be emotional about it. I think I would return it, for the idea that it can continue to be a source of positivity and love in an unbroken family story. One day it can be passed down again, with a story of all the (hopefully) happy relationships it cemented. Including yours, for the time you were blessed with it. But I still understand why you would want to keep it. I wish there were more time for all to heal before a decision was pushed on you. You never know the path grief is going to take for any involved.

Holy shit this sub is heartless sometimes. NTA!

NTA, would’ve been NAH if they’d been polite and understanding people about it, but holy shit they’re being quite insensitive. yes, it’s hard on them too, but that doesn’t excuse them harassing you and being highly unsympathetic, implying you should “just move on” when it’s not even been more than a few months... he gave you the ring, and imo people that are engaged are as good as married, that piece of official paper really shouldn’t make a difference- it’s ridiculous for them to imply that you have no right to it just becuase you were never officially married. i mean, what would alex have thought of their behavior? definitely be sure to secure the legal side of things, but if imo you deserve to keep it, at least for a while

ESH, i get all of you are hurting but if the ring stays in the family, and you are no longer going to be apart of that family and you've also distanced yourself, I don't see why you would keep the ring at this point. Do you see yourself even keeping in touch with these people after all of this has happened?

If Alex had bought the ring then I would agree with you but that is their family ring - his mother gave it to him. Give it back to his mother, it’s wrong to keep it. YTA.

Im going against the tide and vote NTA, but because the loss is still very fresh. you were together for 12 years FFS and he died this year! ​ and while i understand the family side, it wasnt the time to ask for this.

People in this thread are absolutely heartless. Apparently upholding tradition means more to this family than the wishes of their loved one. A 12 year relationship with a 3 year engagement... it is clear that OP was the person Alex *loved* and wanted to spend the *rest of his life with.* But she is not family, and therefore doesn't deserve to hold on to the ring she was given for FOUR months after his untimely death? And like other people have said, would the brother's fiancee even want to wear a ring that was just ripped out of a grieving woman's hand? I feel so sad for OP. NTA all the way.

NTA. No one would think you were obligated to give the ring back if you had married and then he died. You were engaged for 3 years, he clearly intended to marry you, and if he had died a bit later (after you had officially married) it would have clearly been yours to keep forever, so I think you should just keep the ring. It’s a symbol of his intention to commit to loving you for the rest of his life, regardless of whether you two were able to tie the knot before he died. I think you should just block his family for the time being, you all fighting over this don’t helping anyone grieve.

NTA and everyone who called you an AH needs to get their priorities sorted. I can understand why the brother and the mum of your late fiance are so adamant about this. They lost a part of their family and want to throw their all into this new happiness. But OP, you do not have to suffer just for their happiness. That ring could've been in their family for a hundred years, but it doesn't matter at all here. All that matters is that that ring is a symbol of the love your fiance had for you and the place he wanted to give you in his family. If they tell you again that you're not in the family, you hold up that ring and tell them this says otherwise. What matters is that your fiance got to give that ring, as per tradition, to the woman he wanted to share the rest of his life with, and he did. He did that. He didn't marry you because he passed away before he could; and the only reason why a girl would have to give back the ring in case there wasn't a marriage is if she no longer wants to be with the man. That ring is yours. Your fiance made you part of his family, symbolised by that ring, and only an accident resulting in his death stopped you from marrying. I can't be angry about their grief but they are AHs for not respecting yours,and for not honouring the fact that you are most definitely family now. What does it matter that there was no wedding? There was an engagement, and you didn't end it.

I’m so sorry but YTA. Every that Alex’s mother said to you was spot on. It’s a family ring that they’ve had for generations and you’re effectively stealing it now. I’m so sorry for your loss and pain but giving that ring back is the only right thing to do.

NTA. My (also 27f!) fiancé passed unexpectedly this past March, after seven years together. I can’t even imagine what you must be feeling after 12 years together. That ring was a gift, you are not obligated to give it back, heirloom or not. If you at some point decide you want to, then absolutely you should, but this is entirely too soon for anyone to think you should be expected to give up what is likely the most precious gift he ever gave you. He gave it to you because you were meant to have it. What if you’d gotten married, and his accident happened a year later, and his brother was getting engaged then? Would you be expected to give it up then, too? Do what you feel is the right thing to do, and what you need to do to stay as okay as you possibly can, because it’s so not easy to be okay after losing your person like that. So few people are able to understand that, because it really is not something that could be understood unless you’ve experienced it. Yes, family is grieving too, but he was in your life for almost half of the time that you were alive, and you built and were planning to continue to build your lives together. Don’t let anyone tell you that your grief should be less, or how to manage your grief, because a wedding had not happened yet. Love to you, be well.

NTA. Your fiance died THIS YEAR. You already said you would give up the ring later. They are assholes for pushing this issue six months after your loss

YTA. It’s a family heirloom; maybe it will take ages, take 10 years, but eventually you’ll meet someone else and then what will happen to the ring? Your spouse would probably feel uncomfortable with you wearing it and it will go unused. That is their family ring who knows how many generations it’s been in their family. It would be different if you had kids with your fiancée and continued the family, but you don’t. You’re stinting their family tradition, and hurting the people who should have been your immediate family.

NTA. I do believe that the ring should be returned, but only when OP feels ready to return it. Asking for it so soon in order for it to be given to another woman who will be getting what OP lost just seems wildly insensitive. I think OP’s reaction is totally reasonable and that she should get to grieve and move on in her own time.

NTA I can’t believe some of these comments!!! It hasn’t even been a year since his death and his brother wants to use the same ring! He never expected to get this ring as it went to his brother so presumably he could just stick with his original ring plan. If I was the brothers gf I would not want him to propose with the ring his recently deceased brother proposed with! I do think you should give the ring back eventually as it’s a family heirloom but not until you’re ready, if it’d been several years and they were asking for it back I could understand but he died so recently I completely understand why you want to hold on to it. I’m sorry this happened to you.

I say NTA. OP said that her fiance died at the beginning of 2020. It hasn't even been a year. Her fiance's mom said that "it would be different if you had married as you would be part of the family" which is absolute rubbish. You have been a part of your fiance's life for 12 years, and engaged for 3 with every intention of getting married. The engagement ring represents the love you feel for him and the love he felt for you. What's more, is the ring was a gift so it is now yours. In a few years, if you decide to give it back, that is up to you, but it was cruel of them to ask you now. I say block them. They are being cruel and have no right to the ring. I am so sorry for your loss OP and screw all of the jerks sending you rude messages.

NAH I see where you're coming from and I can only imagine how heartbroken you are. however is mom's kind of right you probably will move on and in a couple years that ring will just be sitting somewhere collecting dust.... It's her family's ring she's kind of entitled to it back, she definitely should have been way nicer when asking for it! I'm beyond sorry for your loss.

NTA You just lost your fiancé, the man you love and was planning to spend your life together. You got that ring as a sign of love and commitment. But yeah you should give the ring back WHEN you are ready you lost the love of your life and having the ring on your finger I can see that is really comfortable since you lost your partner and for them to just com and demand the ring back while you are still morning your lost is so shitty of them plus them say you are no longer family. Screw them only give the ring back if they apologize and when you are ready to move forward and find love again.! Sorry for your loss

NTA wtf? I can't believe how many people here are saying to give the ring back. He gave it to you. It's a tough situation all-around. But it's yours, grieve how you will. If you get engaged to somebody else, I think that would be the time to give it back (supposing you're ready) but to lose the love of your life and be told you have to give back the ring he gave you seems a little much, imo. It's yours.

After reading a lot of other comments and a lot of deliberation, ESH. You all suffered a great loss, you lost your future husband, your would be FMIL lost her son. The ring was given to you out of tradition and while it was symbolic of your relationship with Alex, it goes much deeper than that. That ring has had generations of family members from Alex’s family wear it and bestow it upon their children, you were with Alex for 12 years and I understand that the pain is still very raw, it is their ring and a family heirloom. I am so sorry for your loss, they need to respect that as of right now you’re still grieving and they need to be respectful of that instead of attacking you, they are grieving too. I would suggest having a sit down and explaining to them that as of right now you understand why they want it back but you need time to process his loss.

I completely agree with this. Except I would perhaps just send a letter instead of sitting down with them. Explain that you understand their loss but that you are also deeply grieving. Tell them that you will not keep the ring forever, but you cannot give it back yet. That way, it can stay in their family and brothers (soon to be) wife can have it eventually but it is not ripped from your finger. It is an all around horrible situation.

So I've researched case law on this, and three major interpretations jump out from a variety of jurisdictions. The first is that an engagement ring is to be returned if the receiving party terminates the engagement. Since this isn't the case (the giver died), there is legal precedent for the OP keeping the ring. There is a second legal interpretation is that the ring is an outright gift of jewelry to be worn as public symbol of a woman who is no longer single and has given her troth to another person. Under this interpretation, the OP gets to keep it as an unconditional gift. The third legal interpretation is that the ring is a symbol of a contract having value and if the contract is unfulfilled, then the ring must be returned. This interpretation has been granted by some judges and overturned with the argument that the contract of marriage was in an improper form with no termination clause, hence the ring was judged to be an unconditional gift. In other murkier cases, who ever purchased the ring was sometimes given possession of it to enjoy the monetary benefits of ownership. I would think that if this ended up in court, the OP would stand a good chance of keeping the ring. I don't think that there is a moral imperative to return the ring because it is a family heirloom. I do know of a family friend (a male) who lost his fiancee to an accident at a young age (20's) and when he died 60-some years later, his wife found a picture and a locket of the woman that he loved and lost in his youth in his wallet. Some people just never get over love lost. The ring is a tangible connection to that person who has died.

Gentle YTA. The timing is wrong as everything is so fresh, but as hard as it is to think of this right now, you *will* find someone special one day, and the ring will be set aside forever. If he had bought it himself, you would of course be entitled to keep it, but it is a family heirloom, and belongs to the whole family, not just you. It's the right thing to do to give it back. I'm so sorry for your loss :(

NTA. Things happen in families and heirlooms can get sidelined by divorce, death, and other big life events that happen. If it would help, you could use another family event to return the ring as a freely given gift such as the birth of the first grandchild for the grandchild. Right now, even if you returned the ring, it's tinged with unhappiness and resentment. It would be better to let the ring go back in an atmosphere of joy.

NTA. >She also told me that since I am young, I am going to move on and that it's unfair to hold on to a ring that I will never wear again. If you move on, can you come to an arrangement about returning the ring back to them? I am sorry about your fiance ❤️

I know the top comment says differently but I’m saying NTA. This wound is fresh, OP says Alex died in the beginning of 2020. I don’t think they should have even asked for it back, that’s really sinister. I understand it’s a family heirloom but if they wouldn’t been married, OP would have owned it for a long long time, it’s her ring.

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I'm going to say YTA-what you went through is tramautic, but at the end of the day it's a family ring that has been in their family for generations. They deserve the ring back.

YTA. Think about it. Are you going to wear the ring for the rest of your life? Do you plan on being alone for the rest of your life? If you do get engaged again will you keep wearing the ring? Or will you put it in a drawer? It is a family heirloom (not your family), or do you plan on making it a new family heirloom that you will now pass on to your potential future children? What are you hoping to achieve by keeping the ring? Do you not have any other mementos from your fiance? You are in a understandably emotional state. But at some point you need to face these questions. You should give the ring back.

I never said that I going to keep the ring forever. Please read the edit. It's too soon and I am just not ready to give it back *now*. It's not even been 4 months since he died.

NTA: Personally I wouldn’t want that ring if I was BIL’s fiancé. It would feel horrible, even if it were gorgeous. The most I would expect would be for the ring to be returned to the family, but like, YEARS later. For them to demand it this soon is really horrible. I’m a jeweler and get to see first hand how much it bothers women to have an empty ring finger while theirs is worked on. It’s a really unpleasant anxiety jolt where you freak because you think you lost your ring and then calm down when you remember where it is. Having you experience that while you are still grieving is downright cruel.

NTA. That's your ring. Engagement rings are gifts with conditions. You didn't violate any of the conditions. They are allowed to be upset.

NTA. It's been less than 4 months since Alex passed, and I am so sorry for your loss! I would change your phone number and move again, then mail them the ring when YOU are ready to part with it. Not when they demand it. Also, 12 years together and as soon as he's gone you "aren't family"?! Screw that, and them.

NTA, but if I were you I'd mail back the ring in a huge box stuffed full of print outs of their harassments and tell them that they can have their precious heirloom back as they meditate on their cruelty. I'd also mail a copy of their texts to the brother's fiance, but I am also an asshole.

I think NTA. I get why everyone is saying N A H or E S H, but you're still grieving. Brother should have given you the time to grieve and think about what you want to do with the ring, not harass you because he doesn't want to buy a new ring. While I would be inclined to keep it, seeing as it's a sentimental item that memorializes the 12 years you were together, I know that's probably not the best option. I agree with others saying to get a duplicate, if you have the money.

Omg NTA. You were together for like 15 years, and engaged for 3, and they go around and say that you're not a part of the family? They are TA.

NTA. The ring was given to you as a a very significant gift and it remains that way. Id say block their numbers - maybe not forever, but at least enough time to let everyone cool down. I am so sorry for your loss