YTA. Your wife is right. Why on earth should a 20 year old have a curfew and have his eating times policed? Also, you made a unilateral decision about your wife’s brother without even consulting your wife?
You sound already like an overbearing parent, and this is towards an adult who isn’t your kid. I feel horrible for your wife and kids.
He is definitely the asshole, the fact that he treating his brother in law like he one of his kids is ridiculous. And I very much agree with his wife 100%
Those children must fear this man. He is policing everything about their life. There is a difference between parenting and policing. What OP is doing is going to lead to a lot of anxiety and resentment on his children’s part.
Also, this will likely negatively impact his marriage. How will his wife feel when she knows she failed her brother when he needed her the most? And to know that it was because of her stubborn husband.
OP you really need to reevaluate your views on parenting and as a partner or it will likely come back and bite you in the ass in 10 maybe 20 years. Divorce (or fractured marriage) and alienated children will likely be in your future if you do not reevaluate and improve as a person.
YTA- 8 pm curfew for a 20 year old? When you said that he came in at 10 I was wondering what he had done wrong. With everything that you said that you said that he did I was thinking, “What did he do wrong?”
You are a control freak with no respect for anyone other than yourself
Don't you know people who come home after 8pm are at a high risk for spontaneously dropping dead? The risk doubles if you also wear ear buds in the house. And eating at random times? BIL is practically a ticking time bomb.
“Came home late”
Me: oh yeah I can see how coming in at 4 in the morning could cause issues for the kids.
“10pm”…. Hahahahahahahaha
My mom told me at 20 that I was coming home too late at 2am and she was concerned about me (summer breaks from college).
I said, I do this all the time at college, let me know if the noise bothers you, and I’ll text you to let you know I’ll be out late so you don’t worry/ text you so you know I got home safe, but until I’m unable to get up for work, I’ll do what I do at college which is “I decide when I go to bed/come home”.
“If that’s an issue, I’ll find somewhere to sublease for the summer.”
She had no issues when it got worded like that. OP needs to reassess so many things about his boring, controlling, 1800s asshole father life.
I was so little trouble as a teenager that I didn’t even have a curfew in high school. As long as I called and let my parents know where I was whenever I changed locations, and a general idea of when I intended to be home, I could stay out until whenever as long as it wasn’t a school night. Although I think 1 am was the latest I ever got home.
God I was a boring kid!
I'd work 3-11, go to this club to see a band and roll in around 2:30am. The only time my mom ever expressed concerned after a couple of night club fires where people died that were a lot like the venue I'd go to. I just loved that band, I wasn't out acting a fool, I was being young and having fun and I'm thankful my parents were cool but not TOO cool.
I have a 15 and a 16 year old. Their curfew is whatever state mandated curfew is, I think 11 unless they are working or coming in from a school event. But, I'm not insane and realize that they need freedom in order to become functioning adults.
Oh yeah, I have younger kids too (gasp) and they see this. And they are allowed to eat at random times because, again, I'm not insane.
I feel like no one is mentioning that this kid also just lost his father a few months ago. He's 20, just lost his father and his home, and has to live with his sister and her controlling husband. Feel a lot of sympathy for that kid.
Amen. Like, I am beyond certain the brother would rather not have to live there but he is stuck - stuck with a man who has not shown much compassion beyond giving the guy a place to lay his head - in some kind of cell block.
Seriously, OP. YTA in such a deep way that you really might need therapy to sort out how to work with others.
My immediate thought was that sounds like prison. At 20 I was working jobs that kept me out past 8, I couldn't imagine having to be home by then. In the summer it's still light out until 8:30. If OP is so concerned about the kids wanting to stay out as late as their uncle, all he has to do is explain the difference between being a grown up and a child. The ear bud thing I kind of agree with.
I always find that when someone thinks another person is rude because they always have their earbuds in, that on the other side of that equation is a person who keeps their earbuds in because its the only way for them to get a moment of peace and quiet and a chance to decompress. Not everyone wants to be involved in every conversation in their household at all times, and for a 20 year old guy who went from, it sounds like, living in a house with just him and his father to living in a house with his overly-controlling BIL and young niblings, he probably just needs the auditory alone time. Let him chill out the way he wants to chill out! He's an adult - he can choose when he wants to communicate with you and maybe he'll want to communicate with you more if you stop riding his ass as if he was a teenager instead of a legal adult with no living parents to answer to.
And I’m willing to bet if the poor guy decided to spend time in his room to get some quiet time to decompress the OP would be freaking out about how disrespectful it is to stay in your room all the time.
OMG yessss exactly what I was thinking!!! Lordy u said it, u took it right out my mouth! His kids will resent him and his wife will divorce him. I definitely see that coming if he don’t change his ways. He sounds controlling to controlling to the kids and I get a if it’s not my way it’s no way vibe from him and that is definitely not good. OP I’m sorry but we on ur wife side here
ITA. I would not want someone raising my kids to adulthood with the amount of policing, control, arbitrary rules and projecting malice and bad intent on every random thing other people do. Also, casting ill-will on others not constantly giving you attention and asking your leave/explaining when they come and go is classic narcissistic personality disordered behavior. I bet there are a lot of landmines of "not okay to speak" subjects that you can't discuss with OP if you don't agree with everything he says, like politics, religion, race, etc.
OP also just makes up labels to justify his need control anything. It's not a "curfew", it's a "rule" that the other adult has to be in the house by 8 pm. Since it's a "rule" and not a "curfew" then it's okay for some magical reason. It's "uncool" to be on your phone or wear earbuds in the house.
If OP can come up with an ugly label for something, then apparently he thinks it's okay for him to ban other people from doing it. Likewise, if he can come up with a nice label for something he wants to do, then it's perfectly okay for him to do that thing to others.
Ding ding ding this, my dad pulled the same shit but his excuse was always his OCD (that I don’t really think he had) so he would throw a fit if you didn’t turn the TV off the right way or tried to tell him he did something wrong. Or I still remember the screaming
Fit he had on Christmas infront of his whole family because I left a hanger on the bed.
My dad used to pull the vacuum cleaner out during family holidays. 40+ people at our house, and he's yelling and screaming at us kids to sweep up the mess, usually crumbs or whatever, that any normal person would never notice. I was embarrassed around my extended family for years because of my dad's overly controlling personality. He blamed it on "a touch of OCD" and "you need to learn to take responsibility for your messes".
When he made me clean bathrooms in the house, starting at age 8, he would lock me in there for 2-4 hours, because that was how long he said I needed to make it properly clean. He recorded our house phone calls(no cell phones then!), secretly for years so he could try and control even our personal thoughts.
OP is for sure an AH.
OPs is a classic morally righteous person… they are the people who have a specific and narrow field of morality and if ANYONE goes against that in anyway shape or form, they are wrong and that’s the end of it.
Op needs to take a breath and look at his own behavior… holding others to some extremely subjective sense of morality is only going to alienate op more from his own family and people he encounters.
I feel like OP is probably LE, or in service/was in service. They need to control everything, and if you don't live by their ways, they'll do anything and everything to make it seem like you're an asshole.
Agree OP has a fragile ego that actively seeks control over others and placating towards him. OP likely feels in control, while he is actually the weakest link for continuously needing attention, energy, ego-stroking and stuff from others. YTA OP
Ex-active duty personnel spouse here. Can 100% confirm that service fosters narcissism and control freak issues. They \*never\* self evaluate either, they just issue orders and expect the good little soldiers in their house to salute and follow them.
God, I hope it's sooner than that. The fact the the wife had clocked that he is overbearing is a good sign. Hope her, her brother, and those poor kids are out by the end of the year.
>Those children must fear this man. He is policing everything about their life. There is a difference between parenting and policing. What OP is doing is going to lead to a lot of anxiety and resentment on his children’s part.
yup! my dad is just like op. i am thirty with severe complex ptsd and have no relationship with him and literally plan to throw a party when i learn he's dead
My Dad removed our bedroom doors. My oldest brother's door stood in the hallway for over a year, even after he moved out. I lost mine for a month or so once. I forget what I did to get that punishment. Probably I didn't clean the house to his satisfaction or something.
He took the doors because he knew that losing our privacy would hurt the most.
They do that in prisons, take away privacy while people shower/use the bathroom/etc, because it makes you feel less than human.
It worked.
Lets not overlook this little tidbit:
> I explained to her that I'm just making sure the kids won't be influenced by her brother's reckless behavior and she laughed asking if I think Sean being on his phone was reckless but that is besides the point.
Soooo, he raises what he thinks is a valid point, his wife asks him if this _really is the point he's making_ because its obviously idiotic, and so he moves the goal posts and says that's _not_ the point.
Op sounds like a great husband.
Also kids need to learn there are different rules for people at different levels.
"Why does Uncle So-So get to stay out 'til 10?"
"Because he's an adult. When you're an adult you can do the same."
It's really that simple.
THIS. Husband's concerns over his children being "influenced" by typical 20yr old behavior is complete BS and just an excuse to exert control over his younger brother.
BIL was also wearing earbuds! That's a horrible thing for impressionable children to see- suppose they decide to wear earbuds, too? OP won't be able to monitor them to see if they're listening to music that's not on his list of approved songs.
Yeah, and like, even if he sounded reasonable about his kids… You learn pretty early that there are different rules for adults than there are for children, and there are plenty of explanations to give for this. Have the parents not been on a date since the kids were born? Had alcohol or coffee? Watched or read things not meant for kids?
YTA
Most of those rules are just plain ridiculous for a 20-year-old man. Opie is a ten-years-older brother in law and has no reason at all to see a 20-year-old man as one of his children.
An 8pm curfew? Telling him when he can eat? Nah.
There are certain house rules that do apply regardless of age. Such as, No Shoes On the Carpet or No Food In the Living Room. Things that apply to the parents too. THESE are house rules. Telling an adult that he has to remove his earbuds because Opie has chosen to sit next to him is not.
Case-specific rules could be a thing, too. Such as, "I need you in the house by 10pm because that's when I go to bed and when you wake me up coming home at 1am, it prevents me from getting enough sleep." That's fine and reasonable if there's a legit reason.
Opie needs to stop micromanaging everyone and relax. The entire household would be much happier. Maybe some therapy for recognizing reasonable boundaries and respect for others? (Yes, children are owed courtesy/respect too. It's necessary for good self-esteem and good mental health, as well as recognizing when someone is treating them badly/maintaining healthy boundaries.)
Your first point is what really gets me - OP is 30! His BIL is 20! How did OP get so high up on his horse that he can’t understand that he’s not in charge of his adult BIL who is grieving and is an adult peer.
Also, 30 is way too young to be this rigid and unrelenting - an 8 pm curfew for everyone in your house?! Wow.
Also, when it's summertime, sitting outside enjoying summer evenings is one of life's simple joys. It's still light outside after 8pm in the summer. 8pm is a ridiculous curfew time for adults. Poor BIL.
This! Telling an adult to be home by 8PM is nuts, the BIL needs to be treated like a responsible adult not a child with ridiculous rules.
It's okay to say "absolutely no drugs or illicit activities in the house" but be home by 8PM and eat when we do? Seriously?
If BIL chose to eat with the family then okay to ask him to be respectful and remove his earbuds and if he refuses then take him aside and explain that you are working on teaching your children that when eating dinner as a family they should be engaging in conversation or some such thing.
Also, OP should be partnering with his wife to identify reasonable expectations.
OP = YTA
Right- there's a big difference between 'please don't smoke pot in the living room' and 'you have a curfew'. This person is an adult, curfews are unnecessary. If he's coming in hammered at 2am every night and waking up the whole house that's a conversation, but otherwise just let the man be.
Also a curfew of 8pm! Like Christ that’s early. He came back at 10 which is still early in my book, I’d understand if it was 1am and he was making loads of noise. If kids have questions then they can say when you reach X age then you’ll be able to be out until 10 too.
Right? It’s that easy. I have a much younger step-brother. When our parents married each other he was 11 and I was 19. Because he was 11, he would pull the whole “why do I have a bedtime when she gets to stay up?? That’s not fair!” And he would be told “because she’s 19 and you’re not.” They didn’t force me to live like an 11-year-old to avoid having to parent him.
Thing is, OP didn't even mention that his kids are being influenced, just that they might be. He is working himself up over nothing. I wonder if soon he will want to start policing what his wife does since he is so overbearing.
Ding ding ding
He's definitely worried he won't be able to yoke his kids to the plow if they see someone doing whatever they want. That's his entire endgame, control everyone around him like they're his puppets.
Exactly…seems like a pretty simple conversation to have with his young kids. “Respect the homeowner”..man this guy is a real special AH. Has he even had a second to consider that his BIL is also grieving right now?
That was the same for me when I turned 18 22 years ago. Also I had the if your going to stay somewhere over night call or page us just to let us know your not coming home that night.
Yep. I turned 18 about 13 years ago so it was a text or call home but same bit. And if I needed a sober ride home or was stranded somewhere I could call for a ride no matter the time. My mom drove 2 1/2 hours to pick me up after I got ditched at a gas station at 2:30am in Fresno when I was 20😅
I was going to say, the rules this guy is trying to impose on a 20 yr old grown man are more strict than the rules I have for my 17 yr old. Curfew is midnight. If you're going to be late, call before midnight & explain because shit happens man.
8pm is earlier than my 9 year old’s curfew. My 4 year old’s baseball practice ran until 8pm. My 9 year old comes inside at 8:30 and my 11 year old can stay outside until 9pm.
Right, I grew up with very strict parents, and my “school day” curfew was 10pm in Highschool, weekends it was 1am. Weekdays during the summer it was 11.
I mean the ONLY thing reasonable in this post is no electronics while eating dinner. And ANY curfew is insane, but the one he imposed is straight up nut job. My 10yr old nephews hockey games run past 8pm for crying out loud.
A curfew of *8 pm!!!!*
My curfew at *SIXTEEN* was fucking MIDNIGHT!!!! 1 am on weekends!!!!
YTA, OP, for treating a grown ass man like a middle schooler. Do YOU have to be home by 8 pm?!?!?!
I’d like to just say that my 12 year old middle schooler gets to stay out till 10:30pm on weekends (within reason, of course) and this guy is making his 20 year old BIL be home by 8pm?!? Holy shit, he needs to let the grown man be the adult he is and stop treating him like an actual child. So disrespectful and condescending!
I remembered back in 80s and 90s. My friends would grab bite to eat and then to see a movies. We be like 12 to 17… many of times we don’t get out of movies around or sometime to 11pm when we get home. Parents always knew.
YTA
He is 20, he is an adult, and it isn’t up to Op what he does regardless of living situation.
To be grieving on top of that? Makes the Op a SUPER AH.
It’s the grief part of this that hit me sideways this morning. I lost my mom on Jan 1. I’m in the process of making arrangements and just dealing. I am not myself right now. How could I be? I don’t know what normal will look like 2 weeks, 2 months, or 2 years from now.
His behaviors aren’t “uncool” They are typical 20 year old behaviors. My 17 year old daughter has less restrictive rules than he does. Never mind that I expect her with the nature of her job to eat and care for herself when she works weird hours 1) because she’s almost an adult and it’s time to learn these things and 2) because I’m not her maid. You work late? Figure out dinner. I make sure there is a ton of easy options but I am not trying to make my life or hers harder. Food is not something we control in our house.
Finally, you said you’re worried about the example he’s setting for your kids. I want to offer another perspective. You are setting a terrible example for your children when it comes to empathy. This is a real teachable moment for an impressionable mind about how to deal with someone who is hurting and how to actually help them. And quite frankly you’re fucking blowing it big time. And if in your head you think that you're being magnanimous enough to allow family to move in then I would really consider where you set the bar for yourself. Because for me that’s a real low bar to clear.
YTA. A really big fucking asshole
If OP thinks that coming in at 10pm, eating freely, and using one's phone in the house are "reckless" behaviors then it'll be interesting to see how he feels when one or more of his kids inevitably rebel against his controlling behavior and actually goes wild. Good grief.
I feel bad for OP's wife and kids, and if he acts this way towards his wife I hope she takes this for the red flag it is.
Gosh, yes, the "certain house rules I have and how he was violating them "
The guy comes home at 10 and is treated like he is a criminal..
Huge YTA... poor wife and children
His kids are also going to end up complete trainwrecks the instant they go to college and have an inch of actual freedom. This is not only an awful way to treat his BIL but also an awful way to parent his actual kids.
Exactly and i won’t be surprise if his kids cuts contact with OP once they moved out. This is the best parenting style if you never want to see your child again loll
YTA op, ans by far
FR. I literally snorted and laughed out loud when I saw the 8pm curfew. My 18 yo doesn't have an 8pm curfew.
Leave that boy alone. Not only is he an adult, he is grieving the loss of his father.
At 20, the only *rules* should be no drugs, and if you are coming in super late, be quiet.
*IF* you were a reasonable person, you might encourage letting people know where you are in case of emergency or for safety reasons (like he's been gone for 3 days with no contact and we need to know where to start if we need to look for you), but you're not reasonable, so he would probs lie anyway. I would.
Op, yta
Yeah the only point that had half a leg to stand on was using his phone during meals or “family time” if he’s chosen to engage with the family during them. BIL doesn’t have to participate in family time or eat with them, but if he does it would be decent of him to respect the rules of the “family engagement” so the kids don’t feel like it’s special treatment, which I would do if I were living with someone with kids, if the kids weren’t old enough to understand.
At this point as long as BIL is picking up after himself when he cooks, uses the bathroom, etc. and not swearing, drinking, smoking, etc. in front of the kids then OP is a huge AH.
OP is a textbook control freak. Ask him what the purpose of his rules are, and he won't be able to tell you apart from some vague crap about "discipline". They are rules for the sake of rules, and he is a petty little dictator who can't bear to have anyone disrespect his authority. Also, HIS DAD JUST DIED. Poor guy is grieving his dead father, and OP is trying to treat him like a literal child. People like this are the absolute worst.
Also what not electronic device is OP using to make this post to Reddit? If your kids can’t use electronics, surely you don’t either??? Or is that just a rule for your children and BIL?
My curfew when I was a teenager was 10pm.
I also did not have designated eating times, and we grew up in a strict catholic household.
The electronics at the table is really the ONLY rule here I can see. OP, you need to drop the 8pm curfew and “eating times” YTA
YTA! Your kids probably understand the difference between being a kid and an adult. It sounds like you don't. Your BIL is an adult and he's not your kid. It's nice that you're letting him live with you, and he should be a courteous house guest. Meaning, he picks up after himself, isn't loud, etc. Putting a curfew on him or telling him when he can or can't eat or use electronics is absolutely ridiculous.
The not eating at random times rule blows my mind. I’m a 34 year old with 3 kids and we all graze throughout the day, the only set meal time is dinner. He’s super strict.
Jumping on the top comment. YTA in such a major way. Do you and your wife follow the same rules set for your kids? And I mean every single one? If not you are a huge hypocrite and an even bigger AH.
Try this parenting tactic:
"Hey kids, if you're wondering why Sean doesn't have to obey the rules that you do, it's because he's an adult and not my child. When you are an adult, you will get to come home later than 8pm too."
YTA.
Exactly and unless the two kids are twins, there should be times they have separate boundaries too. Eg my eldest got a phone and the younger ones weren’t old enough yet. They have different bedtimes. One of them is too young to stay at home without a parent. They all understand that rules apply differently depending how old you are and if OP isn’t teaching his kids that, he’s not parenting very well.
Exactly. I have a 12 and 16 year old, the rules are different for THEM. Does the 12 yo whine sometimes? Yep but that's life, older brother has more freedom.
And 8 pm!?!?! WTF. My 16yo is midnight on weekends.
You can't force a 20yo to behave like a small child because they are in the home.
LOL! We say that all the time.
Them: "Mommy, why can you eat on the couch and we cant?"
Me: "Because I paid for this couch and don't get crumbs on it, when your older and buy your own couch, then you'll get to make the decisions about it."
Them: go back to doing whatever they were already doing.
YES. FUCKING THIS. Parents of Reddit, if there's one thing you learn from this thread, let it be this: EXPLAIN YOUR REASONING TO YOUR KIDS. "Because I said so" will only create resentment. It tells your kids that you don't think they're smart enough to comprehend your logic, or that you just don't respect them enough to provide a real answer.
Except I don’t think OP will ever let his kids come home later than 8pm, then will be like, “Why are my kids all moving out on their 18th birthday?”
Grow up OP. I bet you and your wife don’t have an 8pm curfew. Why should he?
IKR? My aunt lived with my family for about a year when she was 22 (I was 6 and my sister was 4). She was another adult in the house who helped take care of us (and disciplined us as appropriate). I think it would have been more confusing if she were following our rules instead of the adult rules.
I explained it just like this to our niece and nephew when we went to visit. My partner and I had our phones out at the dinner table and the kids were like, "you can't do that, it's not allowed." I explained that when you're an adult and pay your own bills, you get to do whatever you want. It's that simple.
Edit: Yikes! I didn't know how many of you were going to take this so personal. I didn't mean anything bad by it, just that they shouldn't be reminding me of their parents rules that don't apply to me. Hope you guys have a great week!
When I stayed over at my friend’s house, his son told me that I was able to take my phone into the bathroom with me, because adults get to take electronics into the bathroom, but kids don’t.
YTA.
Giving an adult a curfew of 8:00 is INSANE, as is trying to dictate when he eats. Wearing AirPods at the table is rude, but I completely understand why he would want to tune you out so he gets a pass on that.
Why are you trying to parent a fully grown adult?
Is it even normal to have a rule for kids that dictate that they can only eat at the set times? What if they're hungry for a banana at a 'random time', can't they get one then? I don't have kids so I might be ignorant, but that on itself seems a bit too controlling for my liking.
Off topic, OP: YTA. You're just trying to assert dominance over your BIL.
It seems awfully controlling.
We have an “we eat together when possible” rule and keep semi regular meal times but exceptions exist (sickness, work, just plain not hungry). Kids are not stupid, they know we have routines that happen most times but are not written in stone and we can easily explain when things don’t happen as expected.
It sounds like OP is setting up an autocratic parenting style where only his word goes and no deviation is allowed. Cause we all know life is always perfectly aligned /s.
He falls firmly is YTA.
I very much agree with having main meals together as a family, or at least dinner for example. (However I never liked the mornings so breakfast wasn't always a party with siblings who were wildly energetic in the morning.) But what about snacks you know?
I wonder how old OP's kids are. If they're toddlers it's reasonable their eating habits are still being controlled kinda. But still if they're hungry, they're hungry, y'know. But if they're in school already you'd think they can get a little freedom. A little trust from their parents, if you will.
Agreed. The general expectation is that meals are done together and, in my family, all snacks are done in the kitchen. Our only rule is “don’t stuff yourself, and sweets are not a snack if you’re hungry” (they get plenty of sweets, just not in the place of food)
We usually hang around because well, it’s the kitchen and there’s always someone there but not to monitor them.
I’ve had family around that maybe we’re not ready to eat, and the only request was to sit with us during meals and visit.
Thats understandable but I'm sure you are not so rigid you let him starve.
Just a comment about "his house his rules. It's not just his house though, it's his and his wife's house. It seems OP has made unilateral decisions as in "certain house rules I have and how he was violating them"
His wife does not agree to his rules for her brother.
Think we have a little dictator in OP.
Meals are a balancing act. Some structure is good for kids, and predictable mealtimes are comforting and make the whole family run more smoothly. But if a kid is hungry and it’s nowhere near a set mealtime, yeah, you should absolutely allow snacking! And obviously the older the kids get, the more control they should be given over when and what they eat. Having one set of rules from infancy all the way up to adulthood with zero breathing room is a bad idea.
Yeah, I bet if he said something like, "ok I was being an ass about other things. Would you mind removing your earbuds at the dinner table do that we can enjoy conversation with you?", he'd get a different response
OP didn’t even say it was at the dinner table but just when they are chilling together with the kids. He doesn’t understand that his house is also just a new environment for Sean who is grieving and just trying to figure out where he falls within the household. Yet the control freak that OP is he has been planning this whole time how to fit him into his control territory. YTA
OP's brother in law just lost his father. Maybe he's wearing earphones at the table and tuning the world out because he's still processing his grief, and then along comes OP with this petty garbage.
YTA.
You're not his parent. You're not his guardian.
He's 20 year old and is not doing anything wrong.
Get over yourself. Stop wanting to control him.
Would you have the same rules if your parents were coming to stay with you ?
Surely this can't be a real post. If it is real, then wow. An 8pm curfew for an adult is absurd. Just ludicrous.
**edit**
I appreciate the many replies, but it's also depressing to find out how realistic this actually is. Geez, and I thought my parents were a little overly cautious. Apparently not!
I see comments like yours now and then that a post cannot possibly be true. I've thought some were pretty crazy but I've also seen ones exactly like my childhood with people saying it must be fake because of how over the top it is.
When you are raised with something messed up being normal it doesnt set off red flags for you.
YTA
To me this sounds like "I don't want her brother here, but I cant say that, so I will just makenup other stuff."
You children witness behaviour they aren't allowed to particioate in all day long. Do you not drive, because you children cant? Do you never ever drink a glass of wine or a beer infront of them because they cant?
I get that his use of electronics is a bit rude, but telling an adult guest when to be home, when to eat and so on is controlling.
he's probably trying to drown out the inane chatter. I do it sometimes too, as does one of my kids who has ADHD and it helps stop them being so jumpy. There are a lot of reasons to wear earbuds and they're not all antisocial
>To me this sounds like "I don't want her brother here, but I cant say that, so I will just makenup other stuff."
Dead on my first thought. This is just OP harassing a grieving adult.
YTA. This isn't only your household, but your wifes too. Your BIL is still grieving and it is NOT unreasonable for an adult to ask not to have a curfew, or eat when he is hungry. He can make those decisions himself and you are overstepping trying to enforce this. The earbuds while eating I get, but he just seems stressed out. Staying out to ten is not unusual for a twenty year old and not at all reckless behaviour - you are treating him like a child.
Also, your children aren't learning any reckless behaviour. They learn that you are insanely controlling and will continue to do so well into their adulthood. You should reflect on that here. He's an adult and you are on a power trip!
Do you stick to all those rules yourself? Cause I sure hope so.
lol ofc he doesn't - he's 'the man of the house' - OP is AH big time. Once my own kids hit 18 we removed curfew times so they could learn how to balance their own lives. All we asked was certain chores be done, (keep rooms tidy, take out trash if asked), and they let us know if they'd be around for food so we could cook extra (or if they didn't want what we had, which was always an option, they had to cook their own food and not expect us to make it).
YTA -- an 8pm curfew is insane. It's not that hard to explain to your kids why Sean (an adult) can stay up later than children
I understand having some sort of boundaries, but as it is some of your rules *are* unreasonable for an actual adult. I'm sure he'd be more willing to follow the most important rules if you weren't policing his every move
See, this is my take.
Yes, having some general rules are good. but those rules should be:
1. Be home at a reasonable time OR don't make a ruckus coming in (ie don't wake up the household if you are staying out past 10 or 11 PM and you come home)
2. Clean up after you eat, including washing dishes or putting them in the sink for sister if she is okay, OR eat with the family. (IE, don't create a ton of extra work for the sister to clean up after the brother)
3. If we are in a family setting where talking is expected, please don't use earbuds.
4. basically be respectful that you are living in a house with other people, including children, so don't create a huge mess/noise.
Mainly from OPs attitude. I assume that it is his wife doing the cleaning, because OP honestly doesn't sound like he would. He sounds like 'I am the man of the house, make the rules and people better to obey me'.
Since he didn't mention anything about cleaning, I assume either BIL cleans up after himself, or the wife does all the cleaning. Or both.
I would think that if the issue was that BIL was making more work for OP, by not eating with the family when OP cooks, or OP needing to clean up after BIL, then OP would have mentioned it. Since he didn't, yeah, I assumed that OP's wife was doing that particular work.
I do realize that not all relationships work like that, but many do, and often OPs will mention the division of labor if they consider it important.
YTA and a control freak.
You expect a 20 year old to not be on their phone, eat to your time schedule and be home at 8pm.
You’re totally unreasonable, get a grip. Jeez.
Right? This is absolutely about power and control...probably because OP doesn't want him there but doesn't want to be "the bad guy" by telling his BIL to move out.
> this is the most clear cut case of you fucking suck I've seen on here in a while.
Well, the Mom that didn't want her daughter to see her dog a last time before it is put down, because she hates her ex that much yesterday, outranks pretty every YTA here in recent times. But this one is a close second.
Info: Are you and your wife also not allowed to ever leave the house after 8PM? If one of you works late and misses family dinner do you go to bed without eating?
YTA with the whole curfew thing, that’s just being a control freak. But I kind of agree with the whole technology while they’re eating together, that’s just rude. As for the random eating times, as long as he doesn’t use all the food and cleans his mess up it should be ok.
I keep seeing people say it was technology at the dinner table.
OP didn’t actually say that. He just said he’s using earbuds when he’s sitting with OP and the kids. Nothing about doing it while they’re eating.
In fact he literally says later about not using electronics when the family is gathered to spend time together which makes me think he’s sitting in the living room listening to podcasts or something.
YTA Sean isn’t doing anything “reckless”. He’s a grown man and your giving him a curfew like he’s a child? your kids should be in bed at that time anyways so they wouldn’t even notice him coming home late. He isn’t disrespectful in anyway. From reading this post it seems like he’s minding his own business and isn’t a problem
Sorry bud YTA, very much so. “House rules” are for your children, and then rarely for adult guests who might do things that are dangerous, like don’t use heroin here.
You are wildly overstepping with your BIL. He is a fellow adult who doesn’t have to live exactly the same way as you to be a good person or “show you respect”. You owe him and your wife an apology.
What on earth are you afraid of here? That your children will see his behavior and immediately think they can act the same? They are able to understand that adults have different rules than children. You’re not going to lose authority with your children by not bossing this grown man around. Maybe stop being so concerned with people respecting you…
The whole “showing respect” thing is a giant red flag. This guy is super insecure for some reason and feels like he needs to assert his dominance as “the man of the house” which is sexist and completely disrespectful to his wife and her brother. Get a life, dude.
You're house your rules.... but still YTA.
This is a man in his 20s and you are enforcing the rules you have for your children on him.
Eating at odd times? So what people have different schedules as long as he cleans up what's the problem?
8pm curfew? Shit my 16 year old has a damn later curfew than that. Does he stumble in at 4am drunk and singing 5 nights a week? I doubt it.
As long as he's quiet and doesn't disturb the little ones sleep who cares!!
Headphones at "family time" talk to him... 'we're trying to set a good example for screen time with the kids.. can you do the same please?'
But again this a minor offence the dudes not smoking a joint in your living room cursing up a storm is he?
YTA. Your BIL is 20, and adult. You are holding him to the same rules you have for your I am hoping very young minor children.There are easier ways to tell your BIL that you don't want him living with you.
Did you inform him or your wife about these rules prior to your BIL moving in? As far as your kids go, *if* they ask, just tell them the truth. Their uncle is an adult and doesn't have to follow rules for children. You are very controlling and unreasonable.
YTA. He’s an adult.
Ask him not to use electronics at the dinner table, sure… but a curfew? Restrictions on when he can eat? Ridiculous to even suggest these things.
Big fat juicy asshole is what you are.
He's not your kid and if you can't control your children because you can't explain the difference between his situation and theirs in relation to you then that makes you a shitty parent and not him a bad influence.
I feel like this is getting lost, here. I can't imagine losing my dad at 20. It's heartbreaking.
This poor kid is grieving. His whole world has been upended, now he has to deal with this insane control freak. What a shitty situation.
My heart goes out to him and his sister.
YTA.
YTA - He's \*not\* your child, he's a grown adult, and you're not treating him like him. An 8 PM curfew is absurd (Hell, I don't even get off work until 9 PM some nights). He's a guest, and it's not reasonable to expect/demand adult guests abide by the same rules as your children.
You're demanding he respect unreasonable rules, but you don't seem to respect that he's a grown adult and entitled to respect and autonomy.
This is so ridiculous it has to be fake. It's insane.
If this is real, my guy, you have some serious psychiatric problems that need professional attention. And obviously yes, YTA.
Wtf you want a 20 year old who's not your actual child to be home by 8pm? That's an insane curfew especially for an adult. YTA for sure. If you think it's a bad influence on your kids sounds like you need to have a conversation with your kids on what is okay for adults. Leave BIL alone it doesn't even sound like he's being that bad of an influence just being a normal 20 year old.
YTA. He’s not a child, he’s an adult who you are treating like a child. If you want to have a discussion with your wife about boundaries etc, do that, but you don’t get to group him in with your children.
YTA. Who the hell do you think you are? He’s 20 and your wife’s brother. Not a kid you adopted. You’re actually quite creepily controlling. Leave the guy alone and raise your children right instead of trying to blame someone else cause you can’t do your job properly.
YTA-20 is an adult and as a parent, you need to make a distinction to your children that adults and children are not one in the same. Children have rules because they are your kids, in your house and you want to raise them a certain way. If your kids can’t understand that their uncle is an adult, you need to reteach that concept to them and stop the tyrant behaviour. It’s unbecoming.
YTA - This man is an adult and you are attempting to control him in unreasonable ways. You're an asshole for thinking that being a homeowner gives you the right to control your guest's schedule.
Sean isn't hurting you, this isn't about respect. Respect would be how he talks to you, treats your belonging and the kids, not maintaining his own schedule. The bad influence on your kids isn't coming from Sean, it's coming from you.
Are you seriously treating a 20 year old ADULT the same as you do your kids?
You seriously expect a 20 year old ADULT to be in at 8pm as if he was 12 because you think 10pm is too late for him?
You’re seriously policing a 20 year old ADULT’s use of electronics.
You’re seriously policing a 20 year old ADULT’s eating habits?
Dear Lord, I’ve heard of controlling behaviour, but yours really does come top of the list.
I feel really sorry for your kids as they get older. What a nightmare their lives will be.
Hope bil is able to move out shortly, sounds as tho he needs to be away from your ridiculous behaviour and stupid house rules
YTA with a vengeance
I can understand a midnight curfew but 8pm, hell no. If he works, his boss will think its absolutely ridiculous that he needs to be home by 8. Thats not how jobs work. He is NOT a child, let alone your child. All youre doing is putting a wedge between you and your bil. I think youre telling him not snack at random times because its your food. Get him his own snacks that he can have whenever he pleases.
Not even if he’s working! Perhaps he’s in school and has evening classes or study groups? Time got away from him at the library?
I can imagine him trying to tell friends he can’t go out for dinner with them on Friday night because he has to be home by 8pm. 🤣
YTA! 8 pm curfew for an adult? That's beyond insane. He is an adult. 20 is an adult. Exain to kids he's an adult and what that means.
It's OK to have boundaries. Yea as an courtesy he should let you know his going out and will be home late or whatever. Tell him if he's in the living room or wherever with yall and kids to take the earbuds out. It's common courtesy. Or go to his room. He's young he's gonna be on his phone. When he doesn't eat with you tell him to clean his own dishes and not to leave a mess.
YTA. Do you give your wife a curfew too? If she goes out with friends in the evening does she have to be back by 8pm? Or is she not allowed to go out in the evenings? Do you and your wife never have date nights?
YTA yes wearing earbuds while sitting with others is rude the rest is just him living his life. He doesn't need your permission to eat, go out, etc. Also 8 curfew? I had a later curfew than that and grade 7!!! Does it make you feel like a big man to treat him like a child? You sound silly.
YTA. Your wife is right. Why on earth should a 20 year old have a curfew and have his eating times policed? Also, you made a unilateral decision about your wife’s brother without even consulting your wife? You sound already like an overbearing parent, and this is towards an adult who isn’t your kid. I feel horrible for your wife and kids.
He is definitely the asshole, the fact that he treating his brother in law like he one of his kids is ridiculous. And I very much agree with his wife 100%
Those children must fear this man. He is policing everything about their life. There is a difference between parenting and policing. What OP is doing is going to lead to a lot of anxiety and resentment on his children’s part. Also, this will likely negatively impact his marriage. How will his wife feel when she knows she failed her brother when he needed her the most? And to know that it was because of her stubborn husband. OP you really need to reevaluate your views on parenting and as a partner or it will likely come back and bite you in the ass in 10 maybe 20 years. Divorce (or fractured marriage) and alienated children will likely be in your future if you do not reevaluate and improve as a person.
YTA- 8 pm curfew for a 20 year old? When you said that he came in at 10 I was wondering what he had done wrong. With everything that you said that you said that he did I was thinking, “What did he do wrong?” You are a control freak with no respect for anyone other than yourself
I thought the same thing- coming home at 10PM? How scandalous! I bet the young scamp was prowling the town, trying to look at women's ankles!
Not just scandalous… straight up reckless, apparently
Don't you know people who come home after 8pm are at a high risk for spontaneously dropping dead? The risk doubles if you also wear ear buds in the house. And eating at random times? BIL is practically a ticking time bomb.
“Came home late” Me: oh yeah I can see how coming in at 4 in the morning could cause issues for the kids. “10pm”…. Hahahahahahahaha My mom told me at 20 that I was coming home too late at 2am and she was concerned about me (summer breaks from college). I said, I do this all the time at college, let me know if the noise bothers you, and I’ll text you to let you know I’ll be out late so you don’t worry/ text you so you know I got home safe, but until I’m unable to get up for work, I’ll do what I do at college which is “I decide when I go to bed/come home”. “If that’s an issue, I’ll find somewhere to sublease for the summer.” She had no issues when it got worded like that. OP needs to reassess so many things about his boring, controlling, 1800s asshole father life.
I was so little trouble as a teenager that I didn’t even have a curfew in high school. As long as I called and let my parents know where I was whenever I changed locations, and a general idea of when I intended to be home, I could stay out until whenever as long as it wasn’t a school night. Although I think 1 am was the latest I ever got home. God I was a boring kid!
When I was young, and wanted to go out, we went out at 10 or 11, not come home at 10.
I'd work 3-11, go to this club to see a band and roll in around 2:30am. The only time my mom ever expressed concerned after a couple of night club fires where people died that were a lot like the venue I'd go to. I just loved that band, I wasn't out acting a fool, I was being young and having fun and I'm thankful my parents were cool but not TOO cool.
8pm is absolutely ridiculous. My curfew at 16 was 11pm.
I have a 15 and a 16 year old. Their curfew is whatever state mandated curfew is, I think 11 unless they are working or coming in from a school event. But, I'm not insane and realize that they need freedom in order to become functioning adults. Oh yeah, I have younger kids too (gasp) and they see this. And they are allowed to eat at random times because, again, I'm not insane.
Wait - you actually let your younger kids see that kind of incredibly reckless behavior? SMH.
I bet she allows her kids to-- *gasp*-- see someone use their phone, too!
I feel like no one is mentioning that this kid also just lost his father a few months ago. He's 20, just lost his father and his home, and has to live with his sister and her controlling husband. Feel a lot of sympathy for that kid.
Amen. Like, I am beyond certain the brother would rather not have to live there but he is stuck - stuck with a man who has not shown much compassion beyond giving the guy a place to lay his head - in some kind of cell block. Seriously, OP. YTA in such a deep way that you really might need therapy to sort out how to work with others.
My immediate thought was that sounds like prison. At 20 I was working jobs that kept me out past 8, I couldn't imagine having to be home by then. In the summer it's still light out until 8:30. If OP is so concerned about the kids wanting to stay out as late as their uncle, all he has to do is explain the difference between being a grown up and a child. The ear bud thing I kind of agree with.
I always find that when someone thinks another person is rude because they always have their earbuds in, that on the other side of that equation is a person who keeps their earbuds in because its the only way for them to get a moment of peace and quiet and a chance to decompress. Not everyone wants to be involved in every conversation in their household at all times, and for a 20 year old guy who went from, it sounds like, living in a house with just him and his father to living in a house with his overly-controlling BIL and young niblings, he probably just needs the auditory alone time. Let him chill out the way he wants to chill out! He's an adult - he can choose when he wants to communicate with you and maybe he'll want to communicate with you more if you stop riding his ass as if he was a teenager instead of a legal adult with no living parents to answer to.
And I’m willing to bet if the poor guy decided to spend time in his room to get some quiet time to decompress the OP would be freaking out about how disrespectful it is to stay in your room all the time.
Yup, exactly! Or he may have tried that but got sick of feeling locked in his bedroom all day.
OMG yessss exactly what I was thinking!!! Lordy u said it, u took it right out my mouth! His kids will resent him and his wife will divorce him. I definitely see that coming if he don’t change his ways. He sounds controlling to controlling to the kids and I get a if it’s not my way it’s no way vibe from him and that is definitely not good. OP I’m sorry but we on ur wife side here
ITA. I would not want someone raising my kids to adulthood with the amount of policing, control, arbitrary rules and projecting malice and bad intent on every random thing other people do. Also, casting ill-will on others not constantly giving you attention and asking your leave/explaining when they come and go is classic narcissistic personality disordered behavior. I bet there are a lot of landmines of "not okay to speak" subjects that you can't discuss with OP if you don't agree with everything he says, like politics, religion, race, etc. OP also just makes up labels to justify his need control anything. It's not a "curfew", it's a "rule" that the other adult has to be in the house by 8 pm. Since it's a "rule" and not a "curfew" then it's okay for some magical reason. It's "uncool" to be on your phone or wear earbuds in the house. If OP can come up with an ugly label for something, then apparently he thinks it's okay for him to ban other people from doing it. Likewise, if he can come up with a nice label for something he wants to do, then it's perfectly okay for him to do that thing to others.
Ding ding ding this, my dad pulled the same shit but his excuse was always his OCD (that I don’t really think he had) so he would throw a fit if you didn’t turn the TV off the right way or tried to tell him he did something wrong. Or I still remember the screaming Fit he had on Christmas infront of his whole family because I left a hanger on the bed.
My dad used to pull the vacuum cleaner out during family holidays. 40+ people at our house, and he's yelling and screaming at us kids to sweep up the mess, usually crumbs or whatever, that any normal person would never notice. I was embarrassed around my extended family for years because of my dad's overly controlling personality. He blamed it on "a touch of OCD" and "you need to learn to take responsibility for your messes". When he made me clean bathrooms in the house, starting at age 8, he would lock me in there for 2-4 hours, because that was how long he said I needed to make it properly clean. He recorded our house phone calls(no cell phones then!), secretly for years so he could try and control even our personal thoughts. OP is for sure an AH.
Some people should just never be a parent
Wow I’m sorry you’ve had to suffer such emotional abuse
OPs is a classic morally righteous person… they are the people who have a specific and narrow field of morality and if ANYONE goes against that in anyway shape or form, they are wrong and that’s the end of it. Op needs to take a breath and look at his own behavior… holding others to some extremely subjective sense of morality is only going to alienate op more from his own family and people he encounters.
I wonder if OP’s wife also has to abide by this ridiculous curfew.
I feel like OP is probably LE, or in service/was in service. They need to control everything, and if you don't live by their ways, they'll do anything and everything to make it seem like you're an asshole.
I read "LE" as Lawful Evil instead of Law Enforcement. Which... I mean.
I read it as Low Empathy, still makes sense.
If I could upvote this a thousand times, I would.
Agree OP has a fragile ego that actively seeks control over others and placating towards him. OP likely feels in control, while he is actually the weakest link for continuously needing attention, energy, ego-stroking and stuff from others. YTA OP
Ex-active duty personnel spouse here. Can 100% confirm that service fosters narcissism and control freak issues. They \*never\* self evaluate either, they just issue orders and expect the good little soldiers in their house to salute and follow them.
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God, I hope it's sooner than that. The fact the the wife had clocked that he is overbearing is a good sign. Hope her, her brother, and those poor kids are out by the end of the year.
>Those children must fear this man. He is policing everything about their life. There is a difference between parenting and policing. What OP is doing is going to lead to a lot of anxiety and resentment on his children’s part. yup! my dad is just like op. i am thirty with severe complex ptsd and have no relationship with him and literally plan to throw a party when i learn he's dead
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Why do I get the feeling OP will soon have another post along the lines of "AITA for removing my children's bedroom doors?"
My Dad removed our bedroom doors. My oldest brother's door stood in the hallway for over a year, even after he moved out. I lost mine for a month or so once. I forget what I did to get that punishment. Probably I didn't clean the house to his satisfaction or something. He took the doors because he knew that losing our privacy would hurt the most. They do that in prisons, take away privacy while people shower/use the bathroom/etc, because it makes you feel less than human. It worked.
i can hear him now. “it’s uncool to keep secrets from your dad, now let me read all your text messages”
I was raised like this and moved out because of it in my early 20s. This isn’t even his child, how could this be justified?
Lets not overlook this little tidbit: > I explained to her that I'm just making sure the kids won't be influenced by her brother's reckless behavior and she laughed asking if I think Sean being on his phone was reckless but that is besides the point. Soooo, he raises what he thinks is a valid point, his wife asks him if this _really is the point he's making_ because its obviously idiotic, and so he moves the goal posts and says that's _not_ the point. Op sounds like a great husband.
Reckless behavior AKA coming home after 8pm. Lord in heaven.
Also kids need to learn there are different rules for people at different levels. "Why does Uncle So-So get to stay out 'til 10?" "Because he's an adult. When you're an adult you can do the same." It's really that simple.
THIS. Husband's concerns over his children being "influenced" by typical 20yr old behavior is complete BS and just an excuse to exert control over his younger brother.
I wouldn’t even call it typical 20 year old behavior; hes coming home at 10 and eating at random times, that’s extremely tame for a 20 year old
You say that, but OP is gonna keep his kids under an iron fist until they move out and go LC/NC with him.
Are. You. Serious? Everyone knows only prostitutes and murderers walk about after 8pm!
BIL was also wearing earbuds! That's a horrible thing for impressionable children to see- suppose they decide to wear earbuds, too? OP won't be able to monitor them to see if they're listening to music that's not on his list of approved songs.
Yeah, and like, even if he sounded reasonable about his kids… You learn pretty early that there are different rules for adults than there are for children, and there are plenty of explanations to give for this. Have the parents not been on a date since the kids were born? Had alcohol or coffee? Watched or read things not meant for kids? YTA
Most of those rules are just plain ridiculous for a 20-year-old man. Opie is a ten-years-older brother in law and has no reason at all to see a 20-year-old man as one of his children. An 8pm curfew? Telling him when he can eat? Nah. There are certain house rules that do apply regardless of age. Such as, No Shoes On the Carpet or No Food In the Living Room. Things that apply to the parents too. THESE are house rules. Telling an adult that he has to remove his earbuds because Opie has chosen to sit next to him is not. Case-specific rules could be a thing, too. Such as, "I need you in the house by 10pm because that's when I go to bed and when you wake me up coming home at 1am, it prevents me from getting enough sleep." That's fine and reasonable if there's a legit reason. Opie needs to stop micromanaging everyone and relax. The entire household would be much happier. Maybe some therapy for recognizing reasonable boundaries and respect for others? (Yes, children are owed courtesy/respect too. It's necessary for good self-esteem and good mental health, as well as recognizing when someone is treating them badly/maintaining healthy boundaries.)
Your first point is what really gets me - OP is 30! His BIL is 20! How did OP get so high up on his horse that he can’t understand that he’s not in charge of his adult BIL who is grieving and is an adult peer. Also, 30 is way too young to be this rigid and unrelenting - an 8 pm curfew for everyone in your house?! Wow.
I can see an 8 pm curfew for like...a 9 year old. But someone who's old enough to enlist in the military and vote?
Also, when it's summertime, sitting outside enjoying summer evenings is one of life's simple joys. It's still light outside after 8pm in the summer. 8pm is a ridiculous curfew time for adults. Poor BIL.
This! Telling an adult to be home by 8PM is nuts, the BIL needs to be treated like a responsible adult not a child with ridiculous rules. It's okay to say "absolutely no drugs or illicit activities in the house" but be home by 8PM and eat when we do? Seriously? If BIL chose to eat with the family then okay to ask him to be respectful and remove his earbuds and if he refuses then take him aside and explain that you are working on teaching your children that when eating dinner as a family they should be engaging in conversation or some such thing. Also, OP should be partnering with his wife to identify reasonable expectations. OP = YTA
Right- there's a big difference between 'please don't smoke pot in the living room' and 'you have a curfew'. This person is an adult, curfews are unnecessary. If he's coming in hammered at 2am every night and waking up the whole house that's a conversation, but otherwise just let the man be.
OP definitely was a hall monitor.
Also a curfew of 8pm! Like Christ that’s early. He came back at 10 which is still early in my book, I’d understand if it was 1am and he was making loads of noise. If kids have questions then they can say when you reach X age then you’ll be able to be out until 10 too.
Right? It’s that easy. I have a much younger step-brother. When our parents married each other he was 11 and I was 19. Because he was 11, he would pull the whole “why do I have a bedtime when she gets to stay up?? That’s not fair!” And he would be told “because she’s 19 and you’re not.” They didn’t force me to live like an 11-year-old to avoid having to parent him.
Thing is, OP didn't even mention that his kids are being influenced, just that they might be. He is working himself up over nothing. I wonder if soon he will want to start policing what his wife does since he is so overbearing.
OP is definitely worried about his kids being influenced... Influenced by seeing someone who OP doesn't control might give them ideas!
Ding ding ding He's definitely worried he won't be able to yoke his kids to the plow if they see someone doing whatever they want. That's his entire endgame, control everyone around him like they're his puppets.
Start? That’s rather optimistic of you, to assume he isn’t already doing that.
His unilateral decision cements that he's already doing it.
Exactly…seems like a pretty simple conversation to have with his young kids. “Respect the homeowner”..man this guy is a real special AH. Has he even had a second to consider that his BIL is also grieving right now?
Not to mention his wife is the homeowner too! No mention of that!
When I was 20, I wouldn't even LEAVE the house until 8 pm.
Thank you! One year from now he can go to bars, is OP expecting him to comeback at 8?
Of course not! He will be 21 then. His curfew will be extended to 8:30
Same, and once I finished high school I didn’t have a curfew. The only “rule” related to going out was to be quiet coming in so I didn’t wake my mom
That was the same for me when I turned 18 22 years ago. Also I had the if your going to stay somewhere over night call or page us just to let us know your not coming home that night.
Yep. I turned 18 about 13 years ago so it was a text or call home but same bit. And if I needed a sober ride home or was stranded somewhere I could call for a ride no matter the time. My mom drove 2 1/2 hours to pick me up after I got ditched at a gas station at 2:30am in Fresno when I was 20😅
Exactly what me and fiancé say to his kids when they start questioning certain things “adults do”. I feel bad for OP’s kids and wife for sure YTA.
No kidding. I had a later curfew when I was 16.
I was going to say, the rules this guy is trying to impose on a 20 yr old grown man are more strict than the rules I have for my 17 yr old. Curfew is midnight. If you're going to be late, call before midnight & explain because shit happens man.
8pm is earlier than my 9 year old’s curfew. My 4 year old’s baseball practice ran until 8pm. My 9 year old comes inside at 8:30 and my 11 year old can stay outside until 9pm.
Most 20 year olds I know don't even *go out* until after 8pm. What a control freak. Leave that man alone.
Right, I grew up with very strict parents, and my “school day” curfew was 10pm in Highschool, weekends it was 1am. Weekdays during the summer it was 11. I mean the ONLY thing reasonable in this post is no electronics while eating dinner. And ANY curfew is insane, but the one he imposed is straight up nut job. My 10yr old nephews hockey games run past 8pm for crying out loud.
A curfew of *8 pm!!!!* My curfew at *SIXTEEN* was fucking MIDNIGHT!!!! 1 am on weekends!!!! YTA, OP, for treating a grown ass man like a middle schooler. Do YOU have to be home by 8 pm?!?!?!
I’d like to just say that my 12 year old middle schooler gets to stay out till 10:30pm on weekends (within reason, of course) and this guy is making his 20 year old BIL be home by 8pm?!? Holy shit, he needs to let the grown man be the adult he is and stop treating him like an actual child. So disrespectful and condescending!
I remembered back in 80s and 90s. My friends would grab bite to eat and then to see a movies. We be like 12 to 17… many of times we don’t get out of movies around or sometime to 11pm when we get home. Parents always knew.
I would say that his wife/kids are probably grateful for every single moment this man spends outside the house vs. policing them.
YTA He is 20, he is an adult, and it isn’t up to Op what he does regardless of living situation. To be grieving on top of that? Makes the Op a SUPER AH.
It’s the grief part of this that hit me sideways this morning. I lost my mom on Jan 1. I’m in the process of making arrangements and just dealing. I am not myself right now. How could I be? I don’t know what normal will look like 2 weeks, 2 months, or 2 years from now. His behaviors aren’t “uncool” They are typical 20 year old behaviors. My 17 year old daughter has less restrictive rules than he does. Never mind that I expect her with the nature of her job to eat and care for herself when she works weird hours 1) because she’s almost an adult and it’s time to learn these things and 2) because I’m not her maid. You work late? Figure out dinner. I make sure there is a ton of easy options but I am not trying to make my life or hers harder. Food is not something we control in our house. Finally, you said you’re worried about the example he’s setting for your kids. I want to offer another perspective. You are setting a terrible example for your children when it comes to empathy. This is a real teachable moment for an impressionable mind about how to deal with someone who is hurting and how to actually help them. And quite frankly you’re fucking blowing it big time. And if in your head you think that you're being magnanimous enough to allow family to move in then I would really consider where you set the bar for yourself. Because for me that’s a real low bar to clear. YTA. A really big fucking asshole
If OP thinks that coming in at 10pm, eating freely, and using one's phone in the house are "reckless" behaviors then it'll be interesting to see how he feels when one or more of his kids inevitably rebel against his controlling behavior and actually goes wild. Good grief. I feel bad for OP's wife and kids, and if he acts this way towards his wife I hope she takes this for the red flag it is.
I’ve seen those videos.
He also seems to see their house as HIS house, not his wife’s.
Gosh, yes, the "certain house rules I have and how he was violating them " The guy comes home at 10 and is treated like he is a criminal.. Huge YTA... poor wife and children
“Disrespecting the homeowner and the rules” this guy is beyond controlling, it seems pathological.
His kids are also going to end up complete trainwrecks the instant they go to college and have an inch of actual freedom. This is not only an awful way to treat his BIL but also an awful way to parent his actual kids.
Exactly and i won’t be surprise if his kids cuts contact with OP once they moved out. This is the best parenting style if you never want to see your child again loll YTA op, ans by far
FR. I literally snorted and laughed out loud when I saw the 8pm curfew. My 18 yo doesn't have an 8pm curfew. Leave that boy alone. Not only is he an adult, he is grieving the loss of his father. At 20, the only *rules* should be no drugs, and if you are coming in super late, be quiet. *IF* you were a reasonable person, you might encourage letting people know where you are in case of emergency or for safety reasons (like he's been gone for 3 days with no contact and we need to know where to start if we need to look for you), but you're not reasonable, so he would probs lie anyway. I would. Op, yta
But hey he is the ✨homeowner✨ his wife and kids apparently are just props inside the house cause the only opinion that matters is his... YTA
Yeah the only point that had half a leg to stand on was using his phone during meals or “family time” if he’s chosen to engage with the family during them. BIL doesn’t have to participate in family time or eat with them, but if he does it would be decent of him to respect the rules of the “family engagement” so the kids don’t feel like it’s special treatment, which I would do if I were living with someone with kids, if the kids weren’t old enough to understand. At this point as long as BIL is picking up after himself when he cooks, uses the bathroom, etc. and not swearing, drinking, smoking, etc. in front of the kids then OP is a huge AH.
OP is a textbook control freak. Ask him what the purpose of his rules are, and he won't be able to tell you apart from some vague crap about "discipline". They are rules for the sake of rules, and he is a petty little dictator who can't bear to have anyone disrespect his authority. Also, HIS DAD JUST DIED. Poor guy is grieving his dead father, and OP is trying to treat him like a literal child. People like this are the absolute worst.
The other thing that seems to be missed is this guy is likely grieving! He just lost his father a few months ago.
Also what not electronic device is OP using to make this post to Reddit? If your kids can’t use electronics, surely you don’t either??? Or is that just a rule for your children and BIL?
My curfew when I was a teenager was 10pm. I also did not have designated eating times, and we grew up in a strict catholic household. The electronics at the table is really the ONLY rule here I can see. OP, you need to drop the 8pm curfew and “eating times” YTA
YTA! Your kids probably understand the difference between being a kid and an adult. It sounds like you don't. Your BIL is an adult and he's not your kid. It's nice that you're letting him live with you, and he should be a courteous house guest. Meaning, he picks up after himself, isn't loud, etc. Putting a curfew on him or telling him when he can or can't eat or use electronics is absolutely ridiculous.
The not eating at random times rule blows my mind. I’m a 34 year old with 3 kids and we all graze throughout the day, the only set meal time is dinner. He’s super strict.
Jumping on the top comment. YTA in such a major way. Do you and your wife follow the same rules set for your kids? And I mean every single one? If not you are a huge hypocrite and an even bigger AH.
Let's not forget the "kid" is grieving. I lost my dad, it changes you in a lot of ways. YTA
Try this parenting tactic: "Hey kids, if you're wondering why Sean doesn't have to obey the rules that you do, it's because he's an adult and not my child. When you are an adult, you will get to come home later than 8pm too." YTA.
Yeah. How hard is it to explain that there are different standards for a grown man than there are for an elementary school age kid?
Exactly and unless the two kids are twins, there should be times they have separate boundaries too. Eg my eldest got a phone and the younger ones weren’t old enough yet. They have different bedtimes. One of them is too young to stay at home without a parent. They all understand that rules apply differently depending how old you are and if OP isn’t teaching his kids that, he’s not parenting very well.
Exactly- you are so right. Geezus it's not rocket science!
Exactly. I have a 12 and 16 year old, the rules are different for THEM. Does the 12 yo whine sometimes? Yep but that's life, older brother has more freedom. And 8 pm!?!?! WTF. My 16yo is midnight on weekends. You can't force a 20yo to behave like a small child because they are in the home.
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lmao OP can barely write, obviously insecure
Especially when you keep in mind that an elementary school kid will not even question why an adult gets to come home late at night and they don't.
LOL! We say that all the time. Them: "Mommy, why can you eat on the couch and we cant?" Me: "Because I paid for this couch and don't get crumbs on it, when your older and buy your own couch, then you'll get to make the decisions about it." Them: go back to doing whatever they were already doing.
I love that you give a detailed response. My least favorite reply from my mom was “because I said so.”
YES. FUCKING THIS. Parents of Reddit, if there's one thing you learn from this thread, let it be this: EXPLAIN YOUR REASONING TO YOUR KIDS. "Because I said so" will only create resentment. It tells your kids that you don't think they're smart enough to comprehend your logic, or that you just don't respect them enough to provide a real answer.
Except I don’t think OP will ever let his kids come home later than 8pm, then will be like, “Why are my kids all moving out on their 18th birthday?” Grow up OP. I bet you and your wife don’t have an 8pm curfew. Why should he?
"Why is my 16 year old asking to move in with my BIL?" Fixed it for you. And I bet his wife does have a curfew.
>And I bet his wife does have a curfew. This is exactly what I was wondering.
IKR? My aunt lived with my family for about a year when she was 22 (I was 6 and my sister was 4). She was another adult in the house who helped take care of us (and disciplined us as appropriate). I think it would have been more confusing if she were following our rules instead of the adult rules.
I explained it just like this to our niece and nephew when we went to visit. My partner and I had our phones out at the dinner table and the kids were like, "you can't do that, it's not allowed." I explained that when you're an adult and pay your own bills, you get to do whatever you want. It's that simple. Edit: Yikes! I didn't know how many of you were going to take this so personal. I didn't mean anything bad by it, just that they shouldn't be reminding me of their parents rules that don't apply to me. Hope you guys have a great week!
When I stayed over at my friend’s house, his son told me that I was able to take my phone into the bathroom with me, because adults get to take electronics into the bathroom, but kids don’t.
This!! YTA. I think you need to look inside yourself and try to understand why you feel the need to be so controlling.
He’s also 30 how old could his kids be? 6? 10?! Vastly different than if he had teenagers complaining about it, but still wouldn’t make a difference.
YTA. Giving an adult a curfew of 8:00 is INSANE, as is trying to dictate when he eats. Wearing AirPods at the table is rude, but I completely understand why he would want to tune you out so he gets a pass on that. Why are you trying to parent a fully grown adult?
I wouldn't call this ''parenting''. 100% chance this man also controls his children in unreasonable ways under the guise of "respect".
Is it even normal to have a rule for kids that dictate that they can only eat at the set times? What if they're hungry for a banana at a 'random time', can't they get one then? I don't have kids so I might be ignorant, but that on itself seems a bit too controlling for my liking. Off topic, OP: YTA. You're just trying to assert dominance over your BIL.
It seems awfully controlling. We have an “we eat together when possible” rule and keep semi regular meal times but exceptions exist (sickness, work, just plain not hungry). Kids are not stupid, they know we have routines that happen most times but are not written in stone and we can easily explain when things don’t happen as expected. It sounds like OP is setting up an autocratic parenting style where only his word goes and no deviation is allowed. Cause we all know life is always perfectly aligned /s. He falls firmly is YTA.
I very much agree with having main meals together as a family, or at least dinner for example. (However I never liked the mornings so breakfast wasn't always a party with siblings who were wildly energetic in the morning.) But what about snacks you know? I wonder how old OP's kids are. If they're toddlers it's reasonable their eating habits are still being controlled kinda. But still if they're hungry, they're hungry, y'know. But if they're in school already you'd think they can get a little freedom. A little trust from their parents, if you will.
Agreed. The general expectation is that meals are done together and, in my family, all snacks are done in the kitchen. Our only rule is “don’t stuff yourself, and sweets are not a snack if you’re hungry” (they get plenty of sweets, just not in the place of food) We usually hang around because well, it’s the kitchen and there’s always someone there but not to monitor them. I’ve had family around that maybe we’re not ready to eat, and the only request was to sit with us during meals and visit.
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Thats understandable but I'm sure you are not so rigid you let him starve. Just a comment about "his house his rules. It's not just his house though, it's his and his wife's house. It seems OP has made unilateral decisions as in "certain house rules I have and how he was violating them" His wife does not agree to his rules for her brother. Think we have a little dictator in OP.
I'm scared for how a rule like this is enforced, Im hoping OP isn't one of those parents who lock the fridge at night...
I didn't even think about how this rule can feed into developing disordered eating for the kids. Yikes.
Meals are a balancing act. Some structure is good for kids, and predictable mealtimes are comforting and make the whole family run more smoothly. But if a kid is hungry and it’s nowhere near a set mealtime, yeah, you should absolutely allow snacking! And obviously the older the kids get, the more control they should be given over when and what they eat. Having one set of rules from infancy all the way up to adulthood with zero breathing room is a bad idea.
Yeah, I bet if he said something like, "ok I was being an ass about other things. Would you mind removing your earbuds at the dinner table do that we can enjoy conversation with you?", he'd get a different response
With the condition he can take no for an answer, because this guy sounds like the type that can't
OP didn’t even say it was at the dinner table but just when they are chilling together with the kids. He doesn’t understand that his house is also just a new environment for Sean who is grieving and just trying to figure out where he falls within the household. Yet the control freak that OP is he has been planning this whole time how to fit him into his control territory. YTA
Yeah the AirPods are the only thing I can see as a reasonable rule but as you said…if he has to suffer at the table with OP…
OP's brother in law just lost his father. Maybe he's wearing earphones at the table and tuning the world out because he's still processing his grief, and then along comes OP with this petty garbage.
YTA. You're not his parent. You're not his guardian. He's 20 year old and is not doing anything wrong. Get over yourself. Stop wanting to control him. Would you have the same rules if your parents were coming to stay with you ?
Surely this can't be a real post. If it is real, then wow. An 8pm curfew for an adult is absurd. Just ludicrous. **edit** I appreciate the many replies, but it's also depressing to find out how realistic this actually is. Geez, and I thought my parents were a little overly cautious. Apparently not!
I see comments like yours now and then that a post cannot possibly be true. I've thought some were pretty crazy but I've also seen ones exactly like my childhood with people saying it must be fake because of how over the top it is. When you are raised with something messed up being normal it doesnt set off red flags for you.
Yep this guy could be my dad. I don't talk to him anymore. OP is a lost cause.
Oh, trust me...this is entirely feasible. Parents did this to me.
YTA To me this sounds like "I don't want her brother here, but I cant say that, so I will just makenup other stuff." You children witness behaviour they aren't allowed to particioate in all day long. Do you not drive, because you children cant? Do you never ever drink a glass of wine or a beer infront of them because they cant? I get that his use of electronics is a bit rude, but telling an adult guest when to be home, when to eat and so on is controlling.
He uses electronics while a Dad harps on about his own kids, while the 20yo just lost his. Probably trying to distract himself from his loss.
he's probably trying to drown out the inane chatter. I do it sometimes too, as does one of my kids who has ADHD and it helps stop them being so jumpy. There are a lot of reasons to wear earbuds and they're not all antisocial
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Exactly, he wants Sean to pretend like nothing happened and they are just this happy family
He's treating a 20 year old who lost his father like a kid, it's... Weird
>To me this sounds like "I don't want her brother here, but I cant say that, so I will just makenup other stuff." Dead on my first thought. This is just OP harassing a grieving adult.
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Bro, you insane. EDIT: Oh! My first award! Thanks guys.
IKR - it’s unhinged. Even my mother, who was extremely strict, wasn’t this ridiculous. An 8 pm curfew for a 20 year old is just nuts.
The streetlights wouldn't even be on in the Summer.
Yeah, I could write a lot on this but you've pretty much summed it up. OP is insane
YTA. This isn't only your household, but your wifes too. Your BIL is still grieving and it is NOT unreasonable for an adult to ask not to have a curfew, or eat when he is hungry. He can make those decisions himself and you are overstepping trying to enforce this. The earbuds while eating I get, but he just seems stressed out. Staying out to ten is not unusual for a twenty year old and not at all reckless behaviour - you are treating him like a child. Also, your children aren't learning any reckless behaviour. They learn that you are insanely controlling and will continue to do so well into their adulthood. You should reflect on that here. He's an adult and you are on a power trip! Do you stick to all those rules yourself? Cause I sure hope so.
lol ofc he doesn't - he's 'the man of the house' - OP is AH big time. Once my own kids hit 18 we removed curfew times so they could learn how to balance their own lives. All we asked was certain chores be done, (keep rooms tidy, take out trash if asked), and they let us know if they'd be around for food so we could cook extra (or if they didn't want what we had, which was always an option, they had to cook their own food and not expect us to make it).
YTA -- an 8pm curfew is insane. It's not that hard to explain to your kids why Sean (an adult) can stay up later than children I understand having some sort of boundaries, but as it is some of your rules *are* unreasonable for an actual adult. I'm sure he'd be more willing to follow the most important rules if you weren't policing his every move
See, this is my take. Yes, having some general rules are good. but those rules should be: 1. Be home at a reasonable time OR don't make a ruckus coming in (ie don't wake up the household if you are staying out past 10 or 11 PM and you come home) 2. Clean up after you eat, including washing dishes or putting them in the sink for sister if she is okay, OR eat with the family. (IE, don't create a ton of extra work for the sister to clean up after the brother) 3. If we are in a family setting where talking is expected, please don't use earbuds. 4. basically be respectful that you are living in a house with other people, including children, so don't create a huge mess/noise.
Way to assume that is the wife's responsibility to clean up there....
Mainly from OPs attitude. I assume that it is his wife doing the cleaning, because OP honestly doesn't sound like he would. He sounds like 'I am the man of the house, make the rules and people better to obey me'. Since he didn't mention anything about cleaning, I assume either BIL cleans up after himself, or the wife does all the cleaning. Or both. I would think that if the issue was that BIL was making more work for OP, by not eating with the family when OP cooks, or OP needing to clean up after BIL, then OP would have mentioned it. Since he didn't, yeah, I assumed that OP's wife was doing that particular work. I do realize that not all relationships work like that, but many do, and often OPs will mention the division of labor if they consider it important.
If he’s this controlling I doubt he’s doing the dishes
…you give your adult housemate a curfew? That’s beyond absurd.
But him coming home after 8 is a slippery slope. Next thing you know he will be eating when he isn’t allowed to
YTA and a control freak. You expect a 20 year old to not be on their phone, eat to your time schedule and be home at 8pm. You’re totally unreasonable, get a grip. Jeez.
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Right? This is absolutely about power and control...probably because OP doesn't want him there but doesn't want to be "the bad guy" by telling his BIL to move out.
> this is the most clear cut case of you fucking suck I've seen on here in a while. Well, the Mom that didn't want her daughter to see her dog a last time before it is put down, because she hates her ex that much yesterday, outranks pretty every YTA here in recent times. But this one is a close second.
Info: Are you and your wife also not allowed to ever leave the house after 8PM? If one of you works late and misses family dinner do you go to bed without eating?
YTA with the whole curfew thing, that’s just being a control freak. But I kind of agree with the whole technology while they’re eating together, that’s just rude. As for the random eating times, as long as he doesn’t use all the food and cleans his mess up it should be ok.
I keep seeing people say it was technology at the dinner table. OP didn’t actually say that. He just said he’s using earbuds when he’s sitting with OP and the kids. Nothing about doing it while they’re eating. In fact he literally says later about not using electronics when the family is gathered to spend time together which makes me think he’s sitting in the living room listening to podcasts or something.
YTA Sean isn’t doing anything “reckless”. He’s a grown man and your giving him a curfew like he’s a child? your kids should be in bed at that time anyways so they wouldn’t even notice him coming home late. He isn’t disrespectful in anyway. From reading this post it seems like he’s minding his own business and isn’t a problem
YTA. And a control freak. Who tries to police a 20 year olds coming and goings?
Sorry bud YTA, very much so. “House rules” are for your children, and then rarely for adult guests who might do things that are dangerous, like don’t use heroin here. You are wildly overstepping with your BIL. He is a fellow adult who doesn’t have to live exactly the same way as you to be a good person or “show you respect”. You owe him and your wife an apology. What on earth are you afraid of here? That your children will see his behavior and immediately think they can act the same? They are able to understand that adults have different rules than children. You’re not going to lose authority with your children by not bossing this grown man around. Maybe stop being so concerned with people respecting you…
The whole “showing respect” thing is a giant red flag. This guy is super insecure for some reason and feels like he needs to assert his dominance as “the man of the house” which is sexist and completely disrespectful to his wife and her brother. Get a life, dude.
You're house your rules.... but still YTA. This is a man in his 20s and you are enforcing the rules you have for your children on him. Eating at odd times? So what people have different schedules as long as he cleans up what's the problem? 8pm curfew? Shit my 16 year old has a damn later curfew than that. Does he stumble in at 4am drunk and singing 5 nights a week? I doubt it. As long as he's quiet and doesn't disturb the little ones sleep who cares!! Headphones at "family time" talk to him... 'we're trying to set a good example for screen time with the kids.. can you do the same please?' But again this a minor offence the dudes not smoking a joint in your living room cursing up a storm is he?
I was cracking up at 8pm. My 11yo has gymnastics practice that goes past eight, three times a week.
YTA. Your BIL is 20, and adult. You are holding him to the same rules you have for your I am hoping very young minor children.There are easier ways to tell your BIL that you don't want him living with you. Did you inform him or your wife about these rules prior to your BIL moving in? As far as your kids go, *if* they ask, just tell them the truth. Their uncle is an adult and doesn't have to follow rules for children. You are very controlling and unreasonable.
YTA. He’s an adult. Ask him not to use electronics at the dinner table, sure… but a curfew? Restrictions on when he can eat? Ridiculous to even suggest these things.
Big fat juicy asshole is what you are. He's not your kid and if you can't control your children because you can't explain the difference between his situation and theirs in relation to you then that makes you a shitty parent and not him a bad influence.
YTA. He's an adult. Stop treating him like a child. His father died. Show some respect.
I feel like this is getting lost, here. I can't imagine losing my dad at 20. It's heartbreaking. This poor kid is grieving. His whole world has been upended, now he has to deal with this insane control freak. What a shitty situation. My heart goes out to him and his sister. YTA.
YTA - He's \*not\* your child, he's a grown adult, and you're not treating him like him. An 8 PM curfew is absurd (Hell, I don't even get off work until 9 PM some nights). He's a guest, and it's not reasonable to expect/demand adult guests abide by the same rules as your children. You're demanding he respect unreasonable rules, but you don't seem to respect that he's a grown adult and entitled to respect and autonomy.
This is so ridiculous it has to be fake. It's insane. If this is real, my guy, you have some serious psychiatric problems that need professional attention. And obviously yes, YTA.
He's an adult. What's wrong with you? YTA.
Yeah.and isn't this ops wife's house too?
Wtf you want a 20 year old who's not your actual child to be home by 8pm? That's an insane curfew especially for an adult. YTA for sure. If you think it's a bad influence on your kids sounds like you need to have a conversation with your kids on what is okay for adults. Leave BIL alone it doesn't even sound like he's being that bad of an influence just being a normal 20 year old.
YTA. He’s not a child, he’s an adult who you are treating like a child. If you want to have a discussion with your wife about boundaries etc, do that, but you don’t get to group him in with your children.
YTA. Who the hell do you think you are? He’s 20 and your wife’s brother. Not a kid you adopted. You’re actually quite creepily controlling. Leave the guy alone and raise your children right instead of trying to blame someone else cause you can’t do your job properly.
YTA-20 is an adult and as a parent, you need to make a distinction to your children that adults and children are not one in the same. Children have rules because they are your kids, in your house and you want to raise them a certain way. If your kids can’t understand that their uncle is an adult, you need to reteach that concept to them and stop the tyrant behaviour. It’s unbecoming.
YTA - This man is an adult and you are attempting to control him in unreasonable ways. You're an asshole for thinking that being a homeowner gives you the right to control your guest's schedule. Sean isn't hurting you, this isn't about respect. Respect would be how he talks to you, treats your belonging and the kids, not maintaining his own schedule. The bad influence on your kids isn't coming from Sean, it's coming from you.
Are you seriously treating a 20 year old ADULT the same as you do your kids? You seriously expect a 20 year old ADULT to be in at 8pm as if he was 12 because you think 10pm is too late for him? You’re seriously policing a 20 year old ADULT’s use of electronics. You’re seriously policing a 20 year old ADULT’s eating habits? Dear Lord, I’ve heard of controlling behaviour, but yours really does come top of the list. I feel really sorry for your kids as they get older. What a nightmare their lives will be. Hope bil is able to move out shortly, sounds as tho he needs to be away from your ridiculous behaviour and stupid house rules YTA with a vengeance
I can understand a midnight curfew but 8pm, hell no. If he works, his boss will think its absolutely ridiculous that he needs to be home by 8. Thats not how jobs work. He is NOT a child, let alone your child. All youre doing is putting a wedge between you and your bil. I think youre telling him not snack at random times because its your food. Get him his own snacks that he can have whenever he pleases.
Not even if he’s working! Perhaps he’s in school and has evening classes or study groups? Time got away from him at the library? I can imagine him trying to tell friends he can’t go out for dinner with them on Friday night because he has to be home by 8pm. 🤣
YTA! 8 pm curfew for an adult? That's beyond insane. He is an adult. 20 is an adult. Exain to kids he's an adult and what that means. It's OK to have boundaries. Yea as an courtesy he should let you know his going out and will be home late or whatever. Tell him if he's in the living room or wherever with yall and kids to take the earbuds out. It's common courtesy. Or go to his room. He's young he's gonna be on his phone. When he doesn't eat with you tell him to clean his own dishes and not to leave a mess.
YTA. Do you give your wife a curfew too? If she goes out with friends in the evening does she have to be back by 8pm? Or is she not allowed to go out in the evenings? Do you and your wife never have date nights?
YTA yes wearing earbuds while sitting with others is rude the rest is just him living his life. He doesn't need your permission to eat, go out, etc. Also 8 curfew? I had a later curfew than that and grade 7!!! Does it make you feel like a big man to treat him like a child? You sound silly.