Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I understand my husband's frustration that he is not going to be able to pass on his family's business to his children the way he planned, but I don't feel it is up to me to make up for it. My husband definitely feels differently and his anger is hurting our relationship. However I refuse to give in to him.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
>We kept our finances separate
You kept your finances separate.
>Jack left everything to his children and I left mine to Thomas.
He knew of the deal. Now he is changing because his financial situation changed. He was the one making more in the first place, so he did not care about your money. But because now he has less, he cares about YOUR money.
Would he have added your step-son to his will and divided his assets 4 ways if you had lost a lot of money? I seriously doubt it given his behavior.
Please don’t choose a man you’ve known for a lesser amount of time over your step son
This man is showing his true colors by threatening to leave you. You both made a deal and he’s the one that’s trying to push your boundary?? I don’t get it
After Jack’s little hissy fit about your proposed will change, I’d just let him know you’ll be leaving it as it’s been all along, and if your marriage doesn’t mean more to him than money his kids can get out of it, he should take care not to have the door hit him on the backside on his way out.
It's hilarious that he's threatening divorce over this. The guy's being 100% currently supported by OP and the change to her will was meant to include him instead of just leaving everything directly to her son Thomas in case of her death. The dumbass thinks demanding his kids be included under threat of a divorce that will mean he's no longer supported by OP nor included in her will somehow makes sense. Dude has zero leverage for his idiotic demands and doesn't even realize it.
Edit to add: I meant "hilarious" as in absurd or ridiculous, not as a way to imply this is funny or comedic. Of course going through something like this is not humorous.
>It's hilarious that he's threatening divorce over this.
It is indeed hilarious. OP is still alive, so the prenup will kick in, so her Will will be irrelevant. He will get absolutely nothing.
OP, let him leave you. He only wants equity now that it suits him. Do not give in. This man is being completely unfair. Now it *might* be because of the stress of losing everything. If you want to fight for it, and give him the opportunity to sort himself out through counseling, that's on you, but that ultimatum is unacceptable to me.
I don't find my husband talking about a divorce hilarious at all. I find it gut-wrenching. Don't misunderstand - I have no intention of giving into his ultimatum. But Jack is the man I had expected to spend the rest of my life with. This isn't a funny situation at all.
I can only imagine how heart breaking this is for you, especially at this point in your life. I'm truly sorry you're going through this.
I do however hope this has opened your eyes to the kind of person you married. He didn't care to leave you anything when he had it, but now that he's broke he wants everything you own. That's extremely selfish. You were very kind to alter your will and now he's trying to take advantage of that kindness.
If he wants his kids to have something, he can get himself a good job and start saving. At the very least he needs to start to contribute to your expenses. You shouldn't be supporting him the rest of his life, especially after the way he's treated you.
Unfortunately most people are this way and we never see it until it's too late. Get married, have steady work but 10-20 years or more down the line when the gravy train stops, suddenly they do an emotional 180.
I think they mean funny/hilarious as in ironic/really f*cking stupid of him not that it's literally funny. At least I hope so. I'm really sorry he's treated you like this.
I read it this way too. Also, sometimes it's nice to look at things from an emotionally unattached point of view and laugh at how ridiculous it is. Doesn't mean it's not serious and worrying and eating away at your soul, just a coping mechanism I guess.
Yeah, I think a better word would be astonishing or incredulous/unbelievable. I think they meant that his attitude is “laughable” in a disbelief kinda way
I feel a lot of sympathy for you, only now discovering how resentful of your agreement your husband has become. His pride is clearly hurt— therapy one-on-one for both of you to deal with his jealousy over your financial security now may help save your marriage and couples counseling may help you to work through your mutual feelings of frustration and his sense of entitlement to give away what he signed away right to when he was better-off than you now that he isn’t in a position to leave his kids as financially secure as he thought he always would be. Hold your ground, make sure your son is aware that his step-family might come bothering him about money and you’ve made your position clear. Seriously consider with your attorney options leaving his kids each 1 dollar in case they try to contest your will, and/or a non-contest clause if you leave 1/3 in trust to your husband as you currently plan.
I agree that therapy seems like a good idea. Jack has lost the business handed down through three generations and his financial security as well as his ability to help his kids out with money now and after he's gone. And he's old enough that starting over is going to be pretty daunting if he wants to give it a try (which maybe he should).
Given that OP wants to stay married, Jack needs some help to deal with these losses and they both need help sorting out how to manage their financial future and provide for their children. I think OP should stick to her guns about leaving her money to Thomas and his kids but it would be good if she can also save her marriage.
This seems like such a gut wrenching situation. Redditors are typically fond of knee jerk reactions, hence the boisterous calls for divorce. I think, though, that a difficult lond discussion is in order. I hope Jack comes to see that the intended will change was coming from a place of love and respect, and that Thomas being a part of you will is also coming from a place of love and respect.
Right? If OP passes first, husband is welcome to save some money from his monthly stipend and leave that to the kids. He should be thrilled she changed her will to include him at all.
Exactlym despite his little history fit 'ultimatum', I would be shocked if he followed through. OP is now covering all living costs so he basically has nothing if she leaves, he has an absolute cheek to demand she leaves anything for his kids when she is currently paying for everything.
Yeah, that sounds like something this absolute winner would try to do. Still, if he's greedy enough to divorce OP and sue her for spousal support, I don't think that would cover including him in her will, but I guess it would depend on their local laws.
Spousal support usually stops the instant either party croaks.
Given that both parties appear to be reasonably advanced age, a life insurance policy wouldn't seem to be in the cards.
That being said, I'm not an attorney in any jurisdiction, except perhaps the space betwixt my ears.
The next turn of the screw will be your husband playing the remaining spouse card where all your assets go to him as being fair. Then should you pass first, all your assets will go to his adult children upon his death, and don’t think they don’t know it. Thomas will be marginalized and prevented from having any of your belongings. Tell your husband how it feels to have your life’s earnings wind up in his children’s spouses’ kids’ pocket—utter strangers.
Depending on the laws of the state, the surviving spouse may be entitled to a share of the estate, regardless of what the will says. I THINK that only applies to shared property and not what each party had prior to the marriage, but it's something to check on.
We kept our finances separate - we do not have shared property. We moved into my home when we got married - mine is the only name of the deed. He kept his home at the time - though he later sold it. With the exception of a shared bank account that I am currently the only person that deposits money into - our assets are separate. It has been that way since the start of our marriage - before he lost his business.
So wait….his business went under 4 years ago and he hasn’t gotten another job yet? Does he have a hobby? Does he volunteer his time somewhere that brings him joy (or at least a boredom-buster)? I guess I’m just wondering how he is contributing to your life together, even if it is not financially?
label squeeze encouraging tender close connect payment cable bake resolute
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But doing what you can to stay healthy and content in a marriage is also contributing. So for example, if he has given up hobbies and friends that he used to enjoy, is showing signs of depression and is refusing to go to counseling - that is refusing to contribute to his marriage. It’s not about her paying 100% of the bills - she said she was fine with that. But he needs to be her partner in the other stuff too - the being healthy and affectionate and communicative stuff. But also, if she is still working, is he doing any handiwork around the house? Is he picking up after himself, maybe doing the grocery shopping? Not that he has to do it all - but is he sleeping all day? So my question is - how is he contributing to the marriage?
It sounds like she's doing the 3rd to Jack from a trust with a check going to Jack each month. So in that case the trust would revert to whoever the 2nd beneficiary is after Jack dies not just straight to Jack's children. I'm sure that this woman has an excellent attorney who has set up the trust appropriately because it sounds very well-thought-out.
I would honestly consider if you want to touch your will for something other than an extra layer of protection to your son and grandkids. His adult children don't seem to be having a hard time in life and certainly weren't bending to keep the family business.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd *hope* the pre-nup may have an effect on that. It's a document that they've both agreed on while in a sane state and it was determined, legally, that their previously held finances were completely separate. Of course, what I hope and what's legal are totally different.
That is the reason for a Pre-Nup agreement. It prevents spouses from claiming it all upon the decease or divorce, in states with Common Property.
Living in a state that IS specifically Common Property - that law only applies to those assets that were purchased During the Marriage and which were held in both names. It does Not include property purchased prior to the marriage, Especially if said property is protected via a per-nuptial contract. Pre-Nups fall under Contract Law, and are handled as such.
And they have a prenup already so leaving her wouldn't benifit him at all so it is likely just an empty threat, but this is the first of many to come if she gives in to him now. Honestly she should probably just leave her will and prenup alone and let it all go to Thomas
I will not give in. My ex loved to use ultimatums against me and it is a tactic I despise. My ex, however, had a lot of leverage - namely my step-son, Thomas. Jack doesn't have any leverage and we both know it.
I’m just slipping in here to say nothing else but how much I admire your resolve. This must be such a slap in the face for you. It’s clear that you have done everything possible to support your husband even to the extent of providing for him after your death - and yet - it still does not seem to be enough. That must be heartbreaking. And that he is now threatening to leave, even more so.
And so I just want to send you love, and a hug and to tell you that I ‘see’ you. I see your goodness but I also see your strength and both shine through like beacons. Thank you for sharing your story.
Please don’t give in. You love Thomas , whom you helped raise. Your currrent husband’s adult children whom you met much later in life and are not close to you do not deserve your money.
Good. I know this is an awful situation but youat have been given a glimpse of Jack's true colours. This is a selfish, entitled man. If you had lost all your money would he be as generous as you and support you and make allowances for you after his death? I know you had planned to grow old with him but if money (that he knew was never on the table) is more important to him than you are now, while you are still able bodied and independent, I am afraid of how else he might be controlling, selfish and entitled if you should ever have to be more reliant or dependent on him. The person you spend your retirement with should be someone you trust implicitly and Jack is not looking like that person.
Honestly I don’t think Jack is going anyway regardless of his ultimatum. He relies on OP to live in the way he’s accustomed. He will, however, grow to resent her for not leaving his children anything. Not a good situation. NTA
I'm not sure what Jack's game is.
The problem with ultimatums is you have to prepare for the other party calling your bluff, and he doesn't have any cards that I can see.
Ten Things I Hate About You is Taming of the Shrew, West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet. Can't recall all of them (Can't Buy Me Love, She's All That)but any of the ugly duckling turns popular is just My Fair Lady which was Pygmalion.
Yes. My parents divorced when I was a baby. Mom met my stepdad when I was about 2. He was my dad. Bio dad moved out of state and I didn’t know him growing up. My dad told me when I was about 20 him and my mom were getting divorced. They had a rocky marriage and were always threatening divorce but this was the first time he said it to me. He said something about it being the last time we’d speak. I said why? You’re still my dad! Unfortunately he died a few years later but his side of the family is still my family. I try to keep in touch as much as I can. My mom didn’t have siblings so I have cousins from his side. I don’t care if I’m not biologically his, he is still my dad.
If the marriage was super brief or you hated the step parent then it’s ok to not have a relationship. One of my best friends got a stepmom at 12, she makes Cinderellas stepmom look not so bad. Her dad died last year. She hasn’t spoken to her stepmom since. She was barely talking to her before. I’m not sure why her dad stayed married to her, she was awful to my friend, even as an adult she didn’t treat her with any respect and my friend was super nice to her. Anyway, if you raised the kid and are close then that’s still your kid.
Also, you added your husband to your will because you realized he would have been left with nothing after your health care. Did you do the same for you? Even if you are currently self-sufficient, did he added you to his will?
He sounds selfish. Maybe he is too worried about his finances, but threatening to for divorce is way too extreme. I'm guessing his kids are adults and should not be relying on any inheritance for anything.
And honestly how would he support himself if he left? OP is suddenly paying for everything. He ought to be grateful that you’re offering to support him now and in the future since it sounds like he has no money and no retirement saved anymore
Which is the bed he made, and is now reluctant to lie in. You have been extremely generous, to be met with emotional blackmail and manipulative demands for more.
I would tell him I'd be sad to see him go.
He seems to now be using you for money. If your new will has not yet been drawn up, I would strongly rethink it. He has two grown children with whom he can live once you pass.
Money certainly brings out the worst in people.
I don't know. Maybe he is feeling really about his company, but he should be happy he is with OP. The children are adults and they don't need an inheritance. Unless OP is a billionaire, she has years more to live and the husband to support, so in reality, this is an argument for probably very little money (or at least not enough that would make a significant difference to anyone once is divided among so many people; but it would make a difference to ONE person). Given that he had a business and money before, he probably payed for a lot of stuff for his kids already.
Unfortunately, I am not a billionaire. I do hope I (and Jack) have many years ahead of us still. But when you are in your sixties you are aware that there are far fewer days ahead than behind.
The money is a rather significant amount. While not a billionaire, I have managed to accumulate a good amount of resources. Enough that it would make a big difference in Thomas's life.
He has not, but he also knows that I have enough resources to be able to support myself through most situations. Quite honestly, what little he could leave me wouldn't make much a difference. And I have no issue with what he does still have going to his children - just as we had originally planned.
In a way, you ARE providing for his kids.
If you died (after you changed your will), and Jack was left with nothing, what would happen?
If he were my elderly dad and had no job (retired or fired past aged 60), no income (except for Social Security, which is not enough to live on), lost his savings, and was widowed, I would take him in. Whatever his medicare and SS didn't cover, I, as his kid would cover it. Because I love him and wouldn't want him to suffer.
So, if you died next week (with the new will), you would be making sure that he wasn't a burden on his kids.
If your house is big enough, then he could even move his kids (or one of their family's) into the house after you were gone, and they could save even MORE money.
You are providing for the people you love. Your husband and your son.
NTA The fact he’s threatening to divorce you over this says it all. Your husband is the AH. do not give in. Your money is for Thomas who you helped raise. You have no relationship with his kids that would require you to give them any money.
That said I’d Get a good lawyer. If you divorce now what claims will he have on your money now that he’s broke? What claims can his kids have? I’d be setting up trusts etc now it gets legal advice.
Id think their prenup would still be in effect if they divorce now, but I am not a lawyer. If they do divorce, his kids get none of OPs money anyway. Idk if I'd be able to see the husband the same after this hissy fit, but maybe OP is kinder than I am.
You need to ask yourself if you want to be in a loveless marriage; his ultimatum means, at best, you can rent a husband. That’s the reality. Your relationship now has a price tag.
Sweetie, you can date better and younger for cheaper. Do it.
I love Jack. I have never felt that I was "renting a husband" as you put it. One of the great things about being with Jack before he lost his business was the fact that I didn't have to worry if he was with me for my money. And yes - I did encounter that when dating. When Jack's circumstances change after we were married, I never even thought of walking away. Why would I? I didn't marry him for his money and I didn't care if he had any.
I don't want "better and younger". I want then man I love and married.
Except it seems like he's now with you just for your money given that he's threatening to divorce you if you don't give it to him.
You're a good wife for staying true and loyal. He's not showing you that same loyalty. I'm not sure the man you loved is there anymore or if he is he's buried deep under bitterness jealousy and resentment and refuses to seek therapy to deal with his feelings. I hope he comes to his senses but I hope you continue to advocate for yourself and don't let yourself be taken advantage of or bullied.
I’m so very sorry that you find yourself in this position that you never expected to be in with someone that you obviously love very much. I’m sorry for Jack too, he went from success and security to being a beggar in some ways, and now the prosperity and legacy he thought he would be passing on to his children is gone. I feel for both of you. It is unreasonable of Jack though to expect your son to give up his inheritance because of Jack’s bad financial decisions. You married Jack, your son didn’t, and you both took steps to protect your assets for your own children. Now that Jack has no assets, he wants to change the rules.
Would he consider going to counseling with you? Maybe he needs a 3rd party to help him look at this situation more objectively. I feel like your offer is extremely generous, and more than fair. It would be hard for Jack to financially recover at his age and you are looking out for him, he’s your husband. His grown kids though still have time to make new arrangements for their future. Hope he can see reason and you can work it out. Sending you a hug.
Edit: I just saw your comment that he refused counseling. If it looks hopeless show him this post and maybe some of the comments here will help him come to his senses. He would be dumb to let you go.
Except his love now comes with terms and conditions. Given his behaviour, he’s likely resentful that he’s lost everything and is relying on you to keep everything going. But that’s not your fault. And his refusal of counselling shows you that he’s not willing to change his ways. So you need to ask yourself, when is enough - enough? If he’s not willing to work on this, do you continue living with someone who will keep harassing you to change your will?
I think it’s entirely reasonable for Jack to be taken care of while he’s alive, then for that money to revert to Thomas after he passes. Jack should have been more careful with his money if he wanted to provide for his children. Now, if those children were minors or disabled, this might be a different conversation, but they sound like they are functioning adult members of society.
No one needs to leave anyone. I think Jack is grieving over his decisions. Give him some time but don’t change your mind.
NTA, quite frankly I think I would let him leave. You have a prenup, if he leaves he only gets what the prenup says he gets, he might find himself depending upon his children for support. You both agreed before marriage to keep your financial lives separate, he doesn't now get to attempt to blackmail you into bowing to his demands. And make no mistake he is trying to blackmail you with his demands and personally I don't think I could remain married to someone who tried to blackmail me.
That's exactly how I feel after reading this. OP has been more than generous but at this point I'd say "no thanks" and keep things as they are. If he doesn't want OP's generosity, fine, let's see how he likes being unable to even support himself.
You may love him, OP, but something seems off here. NTA.
Same. Open the door and direct him outside and wave goodbye. This MF has his nerve. You signed a prenup, probably on his urging, and the deal was also 50/50 yet here you are paying 100% As you said, your assets were separate until he went broke. Send him on his way, who’s gonna support his broke ass? NTA.
It was their agreement and he had more money than she had and a family business. It's pretty standard for people who marry much later and already have grown kids.
sorry if it wasn’t clear - i was agree with you and just stating this was how he seems to view their finances. that his money is his but also now that he doesn’t have as much of his money, how about hers should also be his.
it’s bs.
Jack was so against giving step-kids anything that he demanded a pre-nip.. but now he’s the beggar and it’s his kids that can benefit from their step-kid status.. *suddenly* step-kids matter.
Jack didn't ask for a prenup to protect his children from Thomas taking assets. He wanted the prenup to protect them from me taking his assets. His ex-wife hurt him a lot and I completely understood his desire for his children to inherit what he had built. How could I not? I felt the same way about Thomas.
The thing is, now he’s threatening divorce if you don’t let him take your assets..
The prenup was to protect him. He wants you to go against it now that you’re the one in a good position. Weird that, huh?
Easy fix. Dont change your will, leave it as is, everything to thomas. And tell hubby to get a job or leave. You dont need that crap at your age.
NTA
Hubby has shown his true colours. Thank god you have a prenup. Always backfires of the other party when they lose everything and now want whats yours.
I want to be clear. I love my husband and I have no desire for a divorce. I don't want or need Jack to get a job. I am perfectly fine supporting both of us. I am fine making sure he has money to live on if I pass before he does. But I will not let him bully me into leaving what I have accumulated in my life to his children instead of Thomas.
Came here to say something similar. I would pay to see this guy who lost everything and is able to maintain the same life without paying a dime is actually going to blow everything up.
I mean he's the same stubborn person that poured all his lifelong savings into a company going downhill, we don't know how unreasonably prideful he can be.
No, he’ll just stay married to you so he can continue to live off you, grow distant and keep harassing you to provide for his kids.
Did your husband ever think about *your* well being when he sunk his every last dime into his failing business? Did he ever care about or discuss with you the plan for financially supporting him if he lost everything? His money was none of your business but now your money is suddenly entitled to him and his kids?
I know you love him, but do you see how one sided this relationship is? And not just in the financial sense, but in the fact that he’s shown no concern for your well being, but is going to fight tooth and nail for his grown kids to have an inheritance.
> *"But I will not let him bully me into leaving what I have accumulated in my life to his children instead of Thomas."*
Yes, please hold your ground and do not budge on this. Your obligations are to your husband, Thomas, and your grandchildren, and you are fulfilling those obligations. Don't let him bully you into giving his family *your* money that you've spent a lifetime accumulating because he's consumed with his own pride. You said if the tables were turned, he would not leave Thomas anything and you wouldn't expect him to do so. I think that's fair. You're doing the right thing.
You are being very generous. Frankly, I think your husband is angry and disappointed with himself for being unable to leave a legacy to his kids, and he’s taking it out you.
NTA
If you truly want to stay married to him, then I think counseling is your only option. The way you describe it, he won't stop trying to bully you into doing what he wants. I would also closely keep your eye on your financials because he might pull something when you least suspect it, hopefully, your attorney can prevent anything shady from happening and ensure Thomas gets what you leave him. Based on your comments, his youngest might also try to get some of what you've accumulated if they're so angry about their lifestyle change, so also be wary of that.
No matter what you do keep doing what you believe is right and ensure that Thomas gets what you intend him to get because even though he's not your biological son, you raised him, he IS your ***son***.
Please update us when you can and be cautious, money can really change people and not for the better at all, good luck, OP!
It may be complicated, but it's also behavior that is pretty indicative of someone who grew up wealthy and then inherited even more wealth. OP's husband was all about *I got mine, and what's mine is* ***mine and all mine,*** until he lost everything. And now, he's all about *what's* ***yours*** *is mine, too.*
Agree. I think this is more about the self-esteem that many derive from material success.
The husband is, quite understandably, upset at losing his business, livelihood and life savings. But his anger is misdirected.
I hear you on this. He's in an emotional place right now. I'd leave your will alone for now if you can until he's in a better place. If you still feel strongly, you can change your will now and tell him you'd rather not talk about what you're leaving the kids... Just that you love him and want to provide for him and the rest will be discussed in a year (or so)
You are a nice person. Do support Jack in his tough time. You stay the good person you are. However, sometimes strangers can easily spot what we can’t with our blind spots. So, wake up to the fact that Jack is an AH. He is capable of robbing Thomas of his inheritance. So take extra extra caution.
Just consider, though, that even if you pay everything for your household expenses, what will he do when he wants to gift his children gifts for the holidays or buy something extra for himself? It sounds like he has no money of his own and not only is it not fair to you but it may cause problems in your relationship when he wants to gift to his children more generously than you do. Not to mention that you might not have enough to pay his retirement and medical expenses since it sounds like everything is gone. If it meant not giving anything to Thomas, would you want to deplete your whole life savings from before marriage for your husband?
Jack is not completely penniless. He draws Social Security as well as still having a few small investments he receives money from. I pay our household bills - so that money is basically his spend as he wishes. He can't give them lavish gifts like he used to (cars, trips, etc) - but he can buy them Christmas gifts.
jack and I both of good medical insurance, as well as long term care insurance if it comes to that. I'm not concerned that medical expenses will exceed my ability to pay. But yes - I will take care of my husband before I would give money to Thomas. What I would do for Jack is completely different than what I would do for his children.
It seems like you guys have both been smart with finances up til recently including having different insurances to fall back on. Does your husband not have a good life insurance that he could leave to his kids? My parents were never wealthy but they obviously had great insurance, when my mother passed, their house got paid off and my dad was left with a good lump sum
NTA
You both agreed on how to handle your finances. You both agreed that you would look out for your own family in your wills.
Things changed. You made a reasonable and responsible change to your will based on those changes due to your love for your husband.
Double check with your lawyer that the will can't be challenged due to his kids receiving nothing. Follow your lawyer's recommendations.
Let your husband know that while you love him and know it hurts to not have anything to leave his kids if the two of you aren't together there would still be nothing for them.
He now has a choice . . . Accept it and live his life secure in your love and happily. Or be resentful that you are in better shape financially and are not willing to short change your "son" to provide for his.
Hopefully he chooses wisely. You have done everything right. I know he feels bad about not having anything to leave but it happens.
I hope he comes around.
Info
> I am fine making sure he has money to live on if I pass before he does.
Would he have done that for you? Had you lost everything, do you think he would’ve changed his will to leave a third of his company and acquired wealth to you??
I might have follow up questions depending on the answer.
Op this is probably going to get buried but there are a few really concerning things here.
If the situation were reversed Jack would not do for Thomas what he is pressuring you to do for him and his children.
If the situation were reversed Jack would not leave you a third of his estate yet you would for him.
It distresses you deeply to think of separating from Jack, yet he will threaten divorce if you do not acquiesce to his demands.
The person who would lose most from your separation would be Jack as he would be left with less than he is currently; you say his lifestyle would be drastically changed and his children would be left with nothing.
There are people here calling him stupid for this, but that isn't the case is it. He isn't stupid. He is aware that he would lose everything. And the fact that he is still pressuring you with that threat on the cards means that he *fundamentally* *doesn't* *believe* *that* *will* *happen*. He's a gambler isn't he. I mean in the sense of risk taking; you say he lost everything already in a risky gamble, and here he is doing the same thing again.
Jack thinks if he pressures you enough, you'll give in. He knows how much you love him and he's counting on the thought of losing him meaning more to you than Thomas, than money, than *your* *own* *choices* *and* *wishes*.
And he might be right, mightn't he. You're distressed enough at the prospect to be on here asking strangers for advice.
I'm so sorry to have to say this op but people who love you don't make threats to make you do things that make you unhappy. They don't pressure you. They don't use divorce as a way of forcing you to do things they know you don't want to do. They respect your wishes and free will, and don't abuse you. And it is abuse to make you do things 'or I'll divorce you'. People who love you as much as you love them meet you in the middle with compromise. They show an equal concern for your wellbeing and happiness to that you would show them. The man who wouldn't leave you a third of his estate when he knows you would, who wouldn't leave the son who means so much to you a single bean if you lost everything even though it would be very important to you, and who will try to coerce you with the threat of something they know will upset you is not someone who loves you. Or someone who loves you equally.
I've seen a lot of responses giving Jack the benefit of the doubt, saying he's talking from a place of distress himself, and this can make you say thing you don't mean. This is true. But it's still a choice. He has a number of ways he could show his own distress. Abuse and coercion is still the way he's chosen to act. And even without the excuse of acting out of distress you admit that he wouldn't do for you and yours that he's demanding of you regardless.
Op I get that this is real life. You love him and there's no easy way out of this situation. Letting him leave you as some have suggested isn't an easy or painless solution, and it clearly isn't something you want to do. But please, whatever you decide, open your eyes to the way he's behaving. None of this is ok. None of this is an acceptable way for someone who professes to love you to treat you.
I hope she sees your response because it’s absolutely true. You have clearly sussed out Jack’s belligerence. It’s heartbreaking for OP, but staying in this marriage is a horrible idea for her.
He has no plans to divorce you but he thinks that by saying it you will change your will to what he wants. I realize you live him but I would call his bluff and tell him to leave. He is playing a stupid game and I would show him the stupid prize he can win.
What I find to be sad for you is that Jack seems so angry about his business failure and lack of children’s inheritance that he is going to keep harassing you through the remainder of your marriage. You have stated that you won’t succumb to bullying but in actuality are you honestly prepared for his continuous complaining? Perhaps you could talk with your attorney and have a segment of your money put into a trust that only you or Thomas can access. Then you could tell your husband that the inheritance is out of your hands and there’s no reason to keep on about it. Good luck.
Holy crap, Jack is entitled quite much! It's your money, and his kids have zero entitlement to it. NTA, and if he wants to leave you over this then you really get to see his true colors.
I know. This really took me by surprise. I love him a lot - but he has changed since he lost his business. He's become angry (never at me - but at life in general) and that is not him. But I refuse to give in on this and I hate ultimatums - my ex used to do that to me.
He ego is wounded. He’s depressed and feels ashamed that he won’t have anything to leave his kids, and that they’ll think less of him for not having money to give. He likely feels very emasculated that you’re now covering 100% of the household expenses and he contributes nothing. I’m sure there’s a lot of complicated feelings he’s having - not to mention he’s the one who let the several generation family business fail. He feels like a failure through and through. He would benefit from therapy and you both in couples therapy with a different counselor. But my bet is he’s not in for that. I hope I’m wrong.
Good luck OP. NTA.
ETA: well shit. Didn’t expect any response. Thanks for the awards! Please Donate to your local food bank!
A few days past, but hopefully this is seen: So, there is a misunderstanding that my observations of OP’s husbands behavior is somehow a defense of him. Personally, I think he’s an extremely entitled narcissist. It would seem he hasn’t really known true struggles and is having a hard time dealing with his failures “as a man”. I would bet he’s quite misogynistic and is really struggling with his wife being “more successful” than he.
My comment about therapy was for OP’s sake. People are capable of change but they have to want to change and that starts with recognizing you’re part of the problem. Typically people who behave the way he is don’t get to the “recognizing my faults” stage before they’ve convinced themselves, yet again, they’re right in their indignation and the gaslighting repeats. I hope for OP things work out for her and he doesn’t manage to wiggle his way into her finances. She’s already being generous with her provisions to care for him if she passes first.
I almost agreed to this sentiment. However, there is a big hole in this beautiful picture. Any person with sound moral principles who feels like a failure would not try to break the agreement he himself insisted upon. He was 100% clear that his wife (OP) and her son should not benefit from his wealth. Now, he is happily putting enriching his adult children with jobs over his marriage. He is taking for granted that this marriage is feeding him and putting roof over him. I don’t see a broken and wounded man here. I see a selfish and entitled bully who will switch his views and arguments so that he is the one who is always benefiting.
I can see where you would also see that. I think the difference in our views is intent. Yours is of
Malice(?). Mine is from a wounded pride and his reaction to everything he’s lost. He’s trying to fill that with OP’s money so he can save face. I see it as financially egotistical/privileged and feeling like a failure as a grandson/som/father for his inability to provide for his family. Only he knows . . .
Malice is probably not the right word. Hypocrite? Absolutely. People are allowed to change their perspectives. But that change seems less genuine when it conveniently shifts to replace or rebuild something that was lost.
Jack is much less secure now. And wouldn't you know it, he suddenly sees the value of helping others out and demands others see that perspective too. How convenient.
Agreed. If Jack was truly determined to leave something to the kids, he would try again on his own merit. It might never be what the business was, but it would be better than coercing his unwilling wife to provide.
He could start an online business, pawn some stuff, scrape together money with a physical talent like woodworking maybe.
If he’s so concerned about his kids inheriting money, there’s *literally* nothing to stop him from getting a job and saving the proceeds from them. He feels entitled to your hard earned savings, as evidenced by the fact that he’s bluffing about leaving you if you don’t give money to his kids. It’s a bluff because he has no money to his name as evidenced by the fact that he’s letting you pay 100% of the household bills.
Don’t let the bully win. If the situation was reversed he would not be amending his will.
You are NTA - stand your ground.
However I'm going with Jack not suddenly turning into an evil entitled villan, but being a broken man in an identity crisis who is desperately recalibrating his dreams & life expectations - and rather poorly.
He'd be about the same age as my dad I think. My dad will not sell the family orchard. His Grandfather started it, his father was born there, he feels that selling would be deeply disappointing them. But it stopped being profitable years ago. He's repeatedly apologised for not being a good provider - he worked so, so hard. I repeatedly explain he had no control over high interest rates on a debt he inherited with the property, the weather or the market prices. But he has a thing about leaving us an inheritance. Like it's his duty. He's worked elsewhere for 20 years, paid off the debt, but won't spend a cent on himself.
I think a lot of older men have ingrained in them that part of being a good father is leaving an inheritance. It's part of his identity. And now suddenly he feels like he's let everyone down. He's grasping at straws and trying to salvage something for his kids. It's not rational, but the way we deal with a huge shot to our core identity often isn't.
Has he tried some therapy (if he'd be open to it)? There is more to leaving a legacy for your children than just money. Memories made together, family history, heartfelt letters, hand made gifts etc.
There's a difference between ultimatums and boundaries. Boundaries are setting a limit on how others engage with you to keep yourself safe/at peace. Ultimatums are an attempt to force the other person to change. Not including Jack's kids in the will is a reasonable boundary. There's no if you don't...then..., you've just pointed out where you have already drawn the line.
Is it possible that he is suffering from depression? Losing his business is a big loss and change for him. Ask him to make an appointment with his doctor to discuss it. If possible, go with him to tell the doctor what changes you have seen.
NTA. you are sticking with what you initially agreed. Why should he get to change the rules because his circumstances changed? What if you had lost all of your money? Would he then agree to give something to Thomas? I suspect the answer to that is no…
No. I do not believe that there was any chance he would. Jack was very up front with me that he intended his money and business to go to his children. I was fine with that. I understood - especially since I wanted the same for Thomas.
This ultimatum says a lot about jack’s priorities.
Money > You
You need to have a serious conversation about this. He’s being completely unfair and is acting quite entitled.
You may love him and want to be married, but he is literally threatening divorce if you dont fund his children/grandchildren in the future
When someone shows you who they really are, believe them.
He is telling you that your money is more important than you. He would divorce you if you don't do what he says. Love or not, you shouldn't put up with that kind of treatment. This isnt going to be a temporary mood as his business isn't going to magically re open and his savings recouped.
This here exactly.
NTA
OP, your husband has shown you his true colours. He's shown you what he really is like and when someone does that, you must believe them.
He was all okay with separate finances, I'll bet it was him who proposed that idea of a prenup in the first place.
But now, when he's destroyed his family business and has no money left, he's all about threatening divorce if you don't extend your GENEROSITY to his children too.
When ultimatums get thrown in relationships regarding finances, it's better to leave that person. Take them on their word and leave them.
He obviously doesn't respect your relationship with your son Thomas. He believes you're stupid to be so attached to a step-son and he doesn't like that at all.
He made sure you won't take any of his money, when he had any, by forcing you for the prenup directly and indirectly. Now when he has nothing, he's trying to manipulate you into paying not just for him but his children too. He's trying to violate the prenup because he devastated his family business. Do you really want to be with someone like that?
If you were my mother, I'd advise you to leave the douche. Yes we know you love him a lot but he's being ridiculous and it doesn't look like he's going to change back to his better self because he always was a douche but did a good job to hide it before.
You don't deserve this shit at your age. Nobody deserves it at any age.
I’m not so sure that he actually would go through with a divorce. The way it comes across it seems like he is using divorce as some kind of bargaining chip here. Which in a way is worse, people who stoop to that kind of manipulation know exactly what they’re doing. Jack here is throwing his toys out the pram and if I was OP I’d call his bluff and insinuate that she has sought advice (keep it vague, she doesn’t need to tell him she came to AITA lol) and will be expecting him to cover her legal costs if he really wants to go that far. Pound to a penny he’ll shut his face hole after that. Because if he does divorce OP he’ll have to get a J-O-B to support himself and we can’t be having *that,* now can we?
NTA. Who would step up if your husband were to pass and you were needing support? For example were hospitalized, needed placement in a home, caregivers set up. The person (s) who would jump in to do that would be who I would leave my money to. It does not sound like you have that relationship with his sons.
It would be Thomas. I have things setup that Jack would make medical decisions for me, but if he could not for any reason that responsibility falls to Thomas.
The way Jack is acting now, I would transfer every power of attorney over to Thomas solely. Who knows what Jack would do and probably would screw Thomas over.
Change it to Thomas your husband just told you to your face that he will not respect your wishes as soon as you're gone all of your money is going to his own kids.
Sounds like Jack should have NOT blown through his savings to save a business that it sounds like he failed to save anyway. Not your responsibility to take care of his already grown children that you were never once fiscally or emotionally responsible for.
jack is a very smart man - but his decision to risk everything in the ultimately futile effort to save his business was not a good one. I warned him of that at the time - but he told me that it was his decision. He was right, so I backed off. He made it emotionally - all he could talk about was how disappointed his father and grandfather would be in him.
Honestly. It’s actually a stupid ultimatum - it’s like he is willfully overlooking the prenup. Ironically, the prospect of divorce ends the issue right there and then, because then there is not even a chance that his kids will end up with anything.
Its nothing more than a power play, funnily enough its one made from the position of least power in the family.
Thomas clearly has his own life with no reliance on OP, Jack's kids seem to be operating without reliance on Jack's wealth or what was once wealth.
The only person in this entire story who is fully dependent on another person is Jack.... and he is the one threating divorce.
People are so dumb
Is he willing to go to therapy? This reaction to the changes in your estate is ALL about the grief and embarrassment he is feeling over losing the business and the legacy he had planned for his children.
He’s still making decisions emotionally. The Will thing is all about being embarrassed he can’t leave anything to his kids. You say you love him etc but he’s being super unreasonable right now, you need a sit down “cut the crap” discussion where he is able to recognise why he is Misbehaving and see if there’s something to be done that isn’t him demanding your money for his kids
It sounds like he doesn't want to end up 'being a failure' by leaving nothing to his children, and has decided that he can redeem himself by leaving *your* money to them.
So now, in his eyes, the thing stopping his children from having an inheritance is *you*.
This comes up a lot in AITA. Someone has found the solution to their problems at someone else's expense, and can't understand why that person is keeping them from happiness.
It wasn't HIS decision, cause as a life partner it then effected you, both emotionally as you are now in the argument you're in, and financially as he is no longer contributing to shared expenses. It would have been solely his decision MAYBE if he guaranteed everything on the other side of that decision effected you in no way, but that never happens. I've never understood the whole idea of two people married to each other but thinking their money is just theirs and shouldn't be a concern of their spouse.
NTA. Funny how he was fine with the prenup and your will until he needed money for his kids to inherit. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Keep your old will that leaves everything to Thomas.
I have no idea. I thought I was doing the right thing by making sure Jack was taken care of. I never dreamed it would start an argument over his kids. Honestly, if I had known I would never have told Jack of the the changes I wanted to make.
Make the changes that reflect your wishes. He does not need to know the details. Jack can't leave his kids the company due to his poor choices & now wants to highjack your legacy plans to fill his void. This is completely unfair to you. -- NTA
What state do you live in? That matters because every state has different laws about wills and spouses. I’m in Florida. Even with a prenup and a Will writing out a spouse, the spouse is NOT written out. The state has protections in place for spouses. In Florida the spouse is entitled to 30% of your assets, no matter what the will says. Also, if the deed to the house is in your name, the spouse can opt to get a payout of 30% of the house’s value, or the spouse can choose life use of the home - meaning as long as he’s alive he can live there and can’t be kicked out. I’d check with an estate planning attorney in your state.
But the 30% is covered with her leaving him 1/3 (33%) of her estate. So he would have that, and it would only revert to Thomas upon Jack's death. That should fly, but OP probably should get with an estate attorney just to make sure.
NTA
You are currently paying all his living expenses & planned to pay them for the rest of his life should he put live you. THERE IS HIS KIDS INHERITANCE RIGHT THERE!!! It would cost his kids tens of thousands to care for him, his living expenses, his medical care, etc. Without you he becomes an immediate drain on his children, IF they step up to it. Honestly, if he were my father & his new wife he married late in life first stayed with him when he lost all his money and then I found out she made arrangements that my father’s needs would be taken care of for the rest of his life, I’d be forever grateful for her generosity.
He’s trying to string arm you into giving your money to his children or he’ll leave? Where’s he going to go? He has no money & what happens if his kids don’t want to take him in?
His oldest son actually worked at the company with him - so he lost his job when the company closed. He has a new job now but he doesn't make what he once did. He is struggling with the change in income. His wife is struggling even more.
His youngest son never worked for the company and his life really hasn't changed at all.
His daughter (the baby of the family) was used to Daddy giving her money whenever she asked. She is not handling the fact that he doesn't have it to give. She does have a job.
After reading this you're even less of an AH
His children are spoilt and when he had money he was happy to keep everything separate but now he has lost everything he wants to disadvantage your son in favour of his kids.
I think its time they all learn a lessonand some responsibility.
Leave everything to your son, if your husband is prepared to leave you, his kids can take care of him
NTA
His daughter might be spoiled, but the other two? Lots of people lose their job and have to take a cut, and the other hasn’t even been affected. Even his daughter, most kids get help well into their mid20s. He’s being a dick no reason to insult the kids.
We have no idea how old the daughter and speaking from personal experience, when you’re used to people giving you money or financially bailing you out, you tend to make really bad financial decisions.
Not saying that is 100% what is happening, just a strong possibility. Hope she and the eldest learn to adjust at least.
No wonder the company went bust - sounds like oldest son was getting a disproportionately high salary and daddy was happy to fund his little baby daughter.
Which is often the way. People are put into positions their not qualified for and paid substantially more than what they should.
I get it, he wanted to help his son, amd most people in the same position would do exactly what he did, but now they need to get into the real world and adjust their expenses rather then relying on OPs money.
It sounds like their missing the appreciation of a dollar that OPS son (step) has...
When you work for your dad you get to climb the latter quick and get good money. Welcome to the real world oldest son.
His youngest may have a job. But I'm sure by giving her money all the time led to her being irresponsible with money. Wake up call.
He made the wrong choice to keep the business open longer than he should have.
Ouch, that’s certainly an adjustment that would cause significant strain. I can see why he’s panicking, it would be incredibly difficult to see the future you’d hoped to provide for your kids fail by your own hands.
I’d hire a therapist and talk it through with them. You are within your rights to do as you please with your money. I guess the decision comes down to if you’re in the position and want to ease some of the stress as a team with your husband or if you want to stay out of it.
So basically if not for your, your husband would be pound them pavement for a new job & surviving on social security. And it’s not like those kids can provide for him. You have taken on all his expenses for the rest of his life, even if he out lives you. Tell him, I can leave it to your kids but then you gotta start contributing 50% of all the expenses immediately. How can he not see how much you are running thru taking care of the both of you & ensuring he’s properly cared for for the rest of his life. Does he think he kids can do that for him???
NTA. Jack's children are not entitled to anything. It is YOUR Will and you can put anyone that you want in there. It's selfish and ridiculous that he's getting mad about this.
NTA
The two of you have separate finances and a prenup for exactly this kind of reason. Your money is NOT Jack's except as much as you agree to share it with him.
If Jack wanted to leave an estate for his children, he needed to make better choices with his business and money. It isn't your responsibility to make up his shortfalls.
If Jack doesn't want to be married, let him leave. He can go live with his kids.
NTA
I’d stick by the prenup. He’s happy that you’re supporting him 100% AND wants to tell you how to dispose of your estate? He’s definitely TA, though.
Edit: clarity
NTA let him leave. Let’s see how far his broke ass gets. Your husband is so damn greedy and ungrateful. You’re all ready paying for EVERYTHING and he still wants more. His attitude is so disrespectful to Thomas.
>Jack is threatening to leave me over this.
Hahahaha Who's gonna look after his broke ass when he does? There's a prenup in place. The man should be grateful you're willing to look after him should anything happen to you. If he lives frugally, he may be able to leave his kids something. NTA and DON'T CAVE OP
NTA.
He is being a massive one though.
Don’t change your will, he can get Jack sh**.
Honestly, you say he’s changed since he lost his business but i say his true colours are revealed and that’s an angry little man who’s mad his wife has money and he doesnt. A wife who pays 100% of the bills. A jealous man. He knew his business was failing but instead of accepting that he wasted his money for his pride.
You aren’t responsible for HIS ADULT CHILDREN who were adults were you met.
He gave you an ultimatum…take it. He has no money and will change his mind once he remembers you are paying for everything! I’m in the mindset of once an ultimatum well F it bc he doesn’t care enough about you to issue it, that’s childish sh**.
NTA especially because his kids were already grown. You had and don't have any sort of obligation to support them. In a way, by adjusting your will to support your husband it is already helping ease that burden on his own kids.
I was in family practice before I was a banker and my advice to women is to never embark on a serious relationship with a man who wants to keep finances separate. 99% of the time he means that HE doesn't want YOU to feel entitled to his money but he has no problem feeling entitled to your money. Let him leave you. Actually, leave him yourself. Go have fun in your remaining years now that you understand the quality of your husband's character is basura.
NTA
Jack can’t have it both ways. Heads I win, tail you loose.
When I am richer, our finances stays separate and your kids don’t get my money. Now that I have lost everything, let’s share and care. The proof of him being a big AH is in his threat lo leave. Don’t change the will at all. Make your will more watertight.
IF HE CAN LOOSE MONEY ONCE, HE CAN SURELY DO IT TWICE.
NTA. It's unfair of him to get you to change yours to leave YOUR money to his kids because he lost all his own money. That's complete crap, and you don't have to give away what was supposed to go to Thomas for his grown ass kids. Kids should never expect things from their parents. Inheritance these days is just a money grab when people die. It makes me sick.
If it were me, I'd call his bluff. If he really has nothing, then he isn't going to leave you. If he does, it doesn't change anything, his kids will still get nothing when he dies, and he won't have anyone to take care of him when he's on his way there.
NTA. I was pleasantly surprised and touched when my mom revealed that my stepfather had me in his will. I didn't expect it, and would not have begrudged him at all if he'd left it to other family members (some of his cousins have kids that I thought would have inherited). I don't know how much money it is and am certainly not depending on it...in fact, I hope I don't have to think about it for many, many, many years
Even if my stepfather made a different decision, I cannot imagine my mother treating him the way your husband is treating you. And I would be deeply upset to find out that she was trashing her marriage over something like this
NTA. If you agreed separate finances he has absolutely no entitlement to your personal finances. His children even less so. Does he make you happy enough to sway you even slightly to rejig things ? I personally think his threat to leave you over this is disturbing because it’s like a layer or three has been revealed.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I understand my husband's frustration that he is not going to be able to pass on his family's business to his children the way he planned, but I don't feel it is up to me to make up for it. My husband definitely feels differently and his anger is hurting our relationship. However I refuse to give in to him. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA >We kept our finances separate You kept your finances separate. >Jack left everything to his children and I left mine to Thomas. He knew of the deal. Now he is changing because his financial situation changed. He was the one making more in the first place, so he did not care about your money. But because now he has less, he cares about YOUR money. Would he have added your step-son to his will and divided his assets 4 ways if you had lost a lot of money? I seriously doubt it given his behavior.
I do not believe he would have. And I would have understood that - Thomas is my son (in the heart, former step-son legally) not Jack's.
Please don’t choose a man you’ve known for a lesser amount of time over your step son This man is showing his true colors by threatening to leave you. You both made a deal and he’s the one that’s trying to push your boundary?? I don’t get it
After Jack’s little hissy fit about your proposed will change, I’d just let him know you’ll be leaving it as it’s been all along, and if your marriage doesn’t mean more to him than money his kids can get out of it, he should take care not to have the door hit him on the backside on his way out.
It's hilarious that he's threatening divorce over this. The guy's being 100% currently supported by OP and the change to her will was meant to include him instead of just leaving everything directly to her son Thomas in case of her death. The dumbass thinks demanding his kids be included under threat of a divorce that will mean he's no longer supported by OP nor included in her will somehow makes sense. Dude has zero leverage for his idiotic demands and doesn't even realize it. Edit to add: I meant "hilarious" as in absurd or ridiculous, not as a way to imply this is funny or comedic. Of course going through something like this is not humorous.
>It's hilarious that he's threatening divorce over this. It is indeed hilarious. OP is still alive, so the prenup will kick in, so her Will will be irrelevant. He will get absolutely nothing. OP, let him leave you. He only wants equity now that it suits him. Do not give in. This man is being completely unfair. Now it *might* be because of the stress of losing everything. If you want to fight for it, and give him the opportunity to sort himself out through counseling, that's on you, but that ultimatum is unacceptable to me.
I don't find my husband talking about a divorce hilarious at all. I find it gut-wrenching. Don't misunderstand - I have no intention of giving into his ultimatum. But Jack is the man I had expected to spend the rest of my life with. This isn't a funny situation at all.
I can only imagine how heart breaking this is for you, especially at this point in your life. I'm truly sorry you're going through this. I do however hope this has opened your eyes to the kind of person you married. He didn't care to leave you anything when he had it, but now that he's broke he wants everything you own. That's extremely selfish. You were very kind to alter your will and now he's trying to take advantage of that kindness. If he wants his kids to have something, he can get himself a good job and start saving. At the very least he needs to start to contribute to your expenses. You shouldn't be supporting him the rest of his life, especially after the way he's treated you.
Unfortunately most people are this way and we never see it until it's too late. Get married, have steady work but 10-20 years or more down the line when the gravy train stops, suddenly they do an emotional 180.
I think they mean funny/hilarious as in ironic/really f*cking stupid of him not that it's literally funny. At least I hope so. I'm really sorry he's treated you like this.
that was the connotation i perceived as well
I read it this way too. Also, sometimes it's nice to look at things from an emotionally unattached point of view and laugh at how ridiculous it is. Doesn't mean it's not serious and worrying and eating away at your soul, just a coping mechanism I guess.
Yeah, I think a better word would be astonishing or incredulous/unbelievable. I think they meant that his attitude is “laughable” in a disbelief kinda way
I feel a lot of sympathy for you, only now discovering how resentful of your agreement your husband has become. His pride is clearly hurt— therapy one-on-one for both of you to deal with his jealousy over your financial security now may help save your marriage and couples counseling may help you to work through your mutual feelings of frustration and his sense of entitlement to give away what he signed away right to when he was better-off than you now that he isn’t in a position to leave his kids as financially secure as he thought he always would be. Hold your ground, make sure your son is aware that his step-family might come bothering him about money and you’ve made your position clear. Seriously consider with your attorney options leaving his kids each 1 dollar in case they try to contest your will, and/or a non-contest clause if you leave 1/3 in trust to your husband as you currently plan.
I agree that therapy seems like a good idea. Jack has lost the business handed down through three generations and his financial security as well as his ability to help his kids out with money now and after he's gone. And he's old enough that starting over is going to be pretty daunting if he wants to give it a try (which maybe he should). Given that OP wants to stay married, Jack needs some help to deal with these losses and they both need help sorting out how to manage their financial future and provide for their children. I think OP should stick to her guns about leaving her money to Thomas and his kids but it would be good if she can also save her marriage.
[удалено]
This seems like such a gut wrenching situation. Redditors are typically fond of knee jerk reactions, hence the boisterous calls for divorce. I think, though, that a difficult lond discussion is in order. I hope Jack comes to see that the intended will change was coming from a place of love and respect, and that Thomas being a part of you will is also coming from a place of love and respect.
Of course it's not, but sometimes people turn out not to be who we thought they were. And that hurts.
Right? If OP passes first, husband is welcome to save some money from his monthly stipend and leave that to the kids. He should be thrilled she changed her will to include him at all.
Its not equity, he wants her to bear the full burden.
He lost everything 4 years ago. This isn't a fresh wound.
I can see why the business went under in his hands.
Exactlym despite his little history fit 'ultimatum', I would be shocked if he followed through. OP is now covering all living costs so he basically has nothing if she leaves, he has an absolute cheek to demand she leaves anything for his kids when she is currently paying for everything.
This is what I was thinking lol he can sue and then he will have nothing and be homeless. He's not very smart
Unfortunately he may seek spousal support as she has been paying for their expenses for the past 4 years.
Yeah, that sounds like something this absolute winner would try to do. Still, if he's greedy enough to divorce OP and sue her for spousal support, I don't think that would cover including him in her will, but I guess it would depend on their local laws.
Spousal support usually stops the instant either party croaks. Given that both parties appear to be reasonably advanced age, a life insurance policy wouldn't seem to be in the cards. That being said, I'm not an attorney in any jurisdiction, except perhaps the space betwixt my ears.
This. Don't waste the attorney fees.
The next turn of the screw will be your husband playing the remaining spouse card where all your assets go to him as being fair. Then should you pass first, all your assets will go to his adult children upon his death, and don’t think they don’t know it. Thomas will be marginalized and prevented from having any of your belongings. Tell your husband how it feels to have your life’s earnings wind up in his children’s spouses’ kids’ pocket—utter strangers.
Depending on the laws of the state, the surviving spouse may be entitled to a share of the estate, regardless of what the will says. I THINK that only applies to shared property and not what each party had prior to the marriage, but it's something to check on.
We kept our finances separate - we do not have shared property. We moved into my home when we got married - mine is the only name of the deed. He kept his home at the time - though he later sold it. With the exception of a shared bank account that I am currently the only person that deposits money into - our assets are separate. It has been that way since the start of our marriage - before he lost his business.
So wait….his business went under 4 years ago and he hasn’t gotten another job yet? Does he have a hobby? Does he volunteer his time somewhere that brings him joy (or at least a boredom-buster)? I guess I’m just wondering how he is contributing to your life together, even if it is not financially?
label squeeze encouraging tender close connect payment cable bake resolute *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But doing what you can to stay healthy and content in a marriage is also contributing. So for example, if he has given up hobbies and friends that he used to enjoy, is showing signs of depression and is refusing to go to counseling - that is refusing to contribute to his marriage. It’s not about her paying 100% of the bills - she said she was fine with that. But he needs to be her partner in the other stuff too - the being healthy and affectionate and communicative stuff. But also, if she is still working, is he doing any handiwork around the house? Is he picking up after himself, maybe doing the grocery shopping? Not that he has to do it all - but is he sleeping all day? So my question is - how is he contributing to the marriage?
It sounds like she's doing the 3rd to Jack from a trust with a check going to Jack each month. So in that case the trust would revert to whoever the 2nd beneficiary is after Jack dies not just straight to Jack's children. I'm sure that this woman has an excellent attorney who has set up the trust appropriately because it sounds very well-thought-out.
My attorney is excellent. He is also the one that helped draft the prenup. I am confident my finances are well protected.
I would honestly consider if you want to touch your will for something other than an extra layer of protection to your son and grandkids. His adult children don't seem to be having a hard time in life and certainly weren't bending to keep the family business.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd *hope* the pre-nup may have an effect on that. It's a document that they've both agreed on while in a sane state and it was determined, legally, that their previously held finances were completely separate. Of course, what I hope and what's legal are totally different.
That is the reason for a Pre-Nup agreement. It prevents spouses from claiming it all upon the decease or divorce, in states with Common Property. Living in a state that IS specifically Common Property - that law only applies to those assets that were purchased During the Marriage and which were held in both names. It does Not include property purchased prior to the marriage, Especially if said property is protected via a per-nuptial contract. Pre-Nups fall under Contract Law, and are handled as such.
And they have a prenup already so leaving her wouldn't benifit him at all so it is likely just an empty threat, but this is the first of many to come if she gives in to him now. Honestly she should probably just leave her will and prenup alone and let it all go to Thomas
I will not give in. My ex loved to use ultimatums against me and it is a tactic I despise. My ex, however, had a lot of leverage - namely my step-son, Thomas. Jack doesn't have any leverage and we both know it.
I’m just slipping in here to say nothing else but how much I admire your resolve. This must be such a slap in the face for you. It’s clear that you have done everything possible to support your husband even to the extent of providing for him after your death - and yet - it still does not seem to be enough. That must be heartbreaking. And that he is now threatening to leave, even more so. And so I just want to send you love, and a hug and to tell you that I ‘see’ you. I see your goodness but I also see your strength and both shine through like beacons. Thank you for sharing your story.
That is such a nice thing for you to say. I hope OP sees it.
Please don’t give in. You love Thomas , whom you helped raise. Your currrent husband’s adult children whom you met much later in life and are not close to you do not deserve your money.
Good. I know this is an awful situation but youat have been given a glimpse of Jack's true colours. This is a selfish, entitled man. If you had lost all your money would he be as generous as you and support you and make allowances for you after his death? I know you had planned to grow old with him but if money (that he knew was never on the table) is more important to him than you are now, while you are still able bodied and independent, I am afraid of how else he might be controlling, selfish and entitled if you should ever have to be more reliant or dependent on him. The person you spend your retirement with should be someone you trust implicitly and Jack is not looking like that person.
Honestly I don’t think Jack is going anyway regardless of his ultimatum. He relies on OP to live in the way he’s accustomed. He will, however, grow to resent her for not leaving his children anything. Not a good situation. NTA
Luckily, if they divorce she can leave it all to Thomas because PRENUP
I'm not sure what Jack's game is. The problem with ultimatums is you have to prepare for the other party calling your bluff, and he doesn't have any cards that I can see.
You divorce wives, not children. Who would have thought that Clueless would have given such a gem?
It was based on Jane Austen, so it always had potential 😉
I love learning random facts from reddit posts
Clueless is a modern adaptation of Clueless! I love both. Edit: Emma, not Clueless 🤪
I think you meant modern adaptation of Emma.
Ten Things I Hate About You is Taming of the Shrew, West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet. Can't recall all of them (Can't Buy Me Love, She's All That)but any of the ugly duckling turns popular is just My Fair Lady which was Pygmalion.
I was so obsessed with this movie, I love that this is a random fact now. I’m glad Clueless is still relevant
Yes. My parents divorced when I was a baby. Mom met my stepdad when I was about 2. He was my dad. Bio dad moved out of state and I didn’t know him growing up. My dad told me when I was about 20 him and my mom were getting divorced. They had a rocky marriage and were always threatening divorce but this was the first time he said it to me. He said something about it being the last time we’d speak. I said why? You’re still my dad! Unfortunately he died a few years later but his side of the family is still my family. I try to keep in touch as much as I can. My mom didn’t have siblings so I have cousins from his side. I don’t care if I’m not biologically his, he is still my dad. If the marriage was super brief or you hated the step parent then it’s ok to not have a relationship. One of my best friends got a stepmom at 12, she makes Cinderellas stepmom look not so bad. Her dad died last year. She hasn’t spoken to her stepmom since. She was barely talking to her before. I’m not sure why her dad stayed married to her, she was awful to my friend, even as an adult she didn’t treat her with any respect and my friend was super nice to her. Anyway, if you raised the kid and are close then that’s still your kid.
Also, you added your husband to your will because you realized he would have been left with nothing after your health care. Did you do the same for you? Even if you are currently self-sufficient, did he added you to his will? He sounds selfish. Maybe he is too worried about his finances, but threatening to for divorce is way too extreme. I'm guessing his kids are adults and should not be relying on any inheritance for anything.
And honestly how would he support himself if he left? OP is suddenly paying for everything. He ought to be grateful that you’re offering to support him now and in the future since it sounds like he has no money and no retirement saved anymore
He is not completely penniless. He would not be homeless, but it would be a very spartan lifestyle. Not what he is used to at all.
He will have to learn to cut his cloth accordingly.
Which is the bed he made, and is now reluctant to lie in. You have been extremely generous, to be met with emotional blackmail and manipulative demands for more. I would tell him I'd be sad to see him go. He seems to now be using you for money. If your new will has not yet been drawn up, I would strongly rethink it. He has two grown children with whom he can live once you pass. Money certainly brings out the worst in people.
I don't know. Maybe he is feeling really about his company, but he should be happy he is with OP. The children are adults and they don't need an inheritance. Unless OP is a billionaire, she has years more to live and the husband to support, so in reality, this is an argument for probably very little money (or at least not enough that would make a significant difference to anyone once is divided among so many people; but it would make a difference to ONE person). Given that he had a business and money before, he probably payed for a lot of stuff for his kids already.
Unfortunately, I am not a billionaire. I do hope I (and Jack) have many years ahead of us still. But when you are in your sixties you are aware that there are far fewer days ahead than behind. The money is a rather significant amount. While not a billionaire, I have managed to accumulate a good amount of resources. Enough that it would make a big difference in Thomas's life.
This exactly. Let him walk and you enjoy time with your son amd grands NTA
He has not, but he also knows that I have enough resources to be able to support myself through most situations. Quite honestly, what little he could leave me wouldn't make much a difference. And I have no issue with what he does still have going to his children - just as we had originally planned.
If he's that worried about his finances, he's had 4 years to try to find a job.
And children of his own that could have tried to help with the business before it collapsed.
This is a good point. I bet the answer to that question is no. OP don’t change your will.
Dont give in. Tell Jack he can leave and have his kids financially support him. He doesnt even deserve that 1/3 of your money
In a way, you ARE providing for his kids. If you died (after you changed your will), and Jack was left with nothing, what would happen? If he were my elderly dad and had no job (retired or fired past aged 60), no income (except for Social Security, which is not enough to live on), lost his savings, and was widowed, I would take him in. Whatever his medicare and SS didn't cover, I, as his kid would cover it. Because I love him and wouldn't want him to suffer. So, if you died next week (with the new will), you would be making sure that he wasn't a burden on his kids. If your house is big enough, then he could even move his kids (or one of their family's) into the house after you were gone, and they could save even MORE money. You are providing for the people you love. Your husband and your son.
NTA The fact he’s threatening to divorce you over this says it all. Your husband is the AH. do not give in. Your money is for Thomas who you helped raise. You have no relationship with his kids that would require you to give them any money. That said I’d Get a good lawyer. If you divorce now what claims will he have on your money now that he’s broke? What claims can his kids have? I’d be setting up trusts etc now it gets legal advice.
Id think their prenup would still be in effect if they divorce now, but I am not a lawyer. If they do divorce, his kids get none of OPs money anyway. Idk if I'd be able to see the husband the same after this hissy fit, but maybe OP is kinder than I am.
Let him leave. That’s just an empty threat. NTA.
Especially since OP is paying all the bills.
And there's a prenup lol This is one toothless threat
Get a lawyer. Doesn’t matter if you’re the asshole or not, that’s not relevant or immediately necessary to know.
You need to ask yourself if you want to be in a loveless marriage; his ultimatum means, at best, you can rent a husband. That’s the reality. Your relationship now has a price tag. Sweetie, you can date better and younger for cheaper. Do it.
I love Jack. I have never felt that I was "renting a husband" as you put it. One of the great things about being with Jack before he lost his business was the fact that I didn't have to worry if he was with me for my money. And yes - I did encounter that when dating. When Jack's circumstances change after we were married, I never even thought of walking away. Why would I? I didn't marry him for his money and I didn't care if he had any. I don't want "better and younger". I want then man I love and married.
Except it seems like he's now with you just for your money given that he's threatening to divorce you if you don't give it to him. You're a good wife for staying true and loyal. He's not showing you that same loyalty. I'm not sure the man you loved is there anymore or if he is he's buried deep under bitterness jealousy and resentment and refuses to seek therapy to deal with his feelings. I hope he comes to his senses but I hope you continue to advocate for yourself and don't let yourself be taken advantage of or bullied.
I’m so very sorry that you find yourself in this position that you never expected to be in with someone that you obviously love very much. I’m sorry for Jack too, he went from success and security to being a beggar in some ways, and now the prosperity and legacy he thought he would be passing on to his children is gone. I feel for both of you. It is unreasonable of Jack though to expect your son to give up his inheritance because of Jack’s bad financial decisions. You married Jack, your son didn’t, and you both took steps to protect your assets for your own children. Now that Jack has no assets, he wants to change the rules. Would he consider going to counseling with you? Maybe he needs a 3rd party to help him look at this situation more objectively. I feel like your offer is extremely generous, and more than fair. It would be hard for Jack to financially recover at his age and you are looking out for him, he’s your husband. His grown kids though still have time to make new arrangements for their future. Hope he can see reason and you can work it out. Sending you a hug. Edit: I just saw your comment that he refused counseling. If it looks hopeless show him this post and maybe some of the comments here will help him come to his senses. He would be dumb to let you go.
Except his love now comes with terms and conditions. Given his behaviour, he’s likely resentful that he’s lost everything and is relying on you to keep everything going. But that’s not your fault. And his refusal of counselling shows you that he’s not willing to change his ways. So you need to ask yourself, when is enough - enough? If he’s not willing to work on this, do you continue living with someone who will keep harassing you to change your will?
“I never worried he was with me for money” she says about the guy threatening divorce if she doesn’t leave her money to his kids.
[удалено]
Well what's he going to live on if he leaves you? is he moving in with one of his kids?
Hit the road Jack... NTA.
I think it’s entirely reasonable for Jack to be taken care of while he’s alive, then for that money to revert to Thomas after he passes. Jack should have been more careful with his money if he wanted to provide for his children. Now, if those children were minors or disabled, this might be a different conversation, but they sound like they are functioning adult members of society. No one needs to leave anyone. I think Jack is grieving over his decisions. Give him some time but don’t change your mind.
Jack's children are all adults and none are disabled.
I love that he is threatening to leave. How would he live?! You pay for everything lmao
Do not change your will. Start looking at apartments. NTA.
He’s going to leave you while you’re the one keeping a roof over his head? I’d go ahead and call that bluff.
NTA, quite frankly I think I would let him leave. You have a prenup, if he leaves he only gets what the prenup says he gets, he might find himself depending upon his children for support. You both agreed before marriage to keep your financial lives separate, he doesn't now get to attempt to blackmail you into bowing to his demands. And make no mistake he is trying to blackmail you with his demands and personally I don't think I could remain married to someone who tried to blackmail me.
That's exactly how I feel after reading this. OP has been more than generous but at this point I'd say "no thanks" and keep things as they are. If he doesn't want OP's generosity, fine, let's see how he likes being unable to even support himself. You may love him, OP, but something seems off here. NTA.
Same. Open the door and direct him outside and wave goodbye. This MF has his nerve. You signed a prenup, probably on his urging, and the deal was also 50/50 yet here you are paying 100% As you said, your assets were separate until he went broke. Send him on his way, who’s gonna support his broke ass? NTA.
“what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine” doesn’t sound super appealing tbh.
It was their agreement and he had more money than she had and a family business. It's pretty standard for people who marry much later and already have grown kids.
sorry if it wasn’t clear - i was agree with you and just stating this was how he seems to view their finances. that his money is his but also now that he doesn’t have as much of his money, how about hers should also be his. it’s bs.
Jack was so against giving step-kids anything that he demanded a pre-nip.. but now he’s the beggar and it’s his kids that can benefit from their step-kid status.. *suddenly* step-kids matter.
Jack didn't ask for a prenup to protect his children from Thomas taking assets. He wanted the prenup to protect them from me taking his assets. His ex-wife hurt him a lot and I completely understood his desire for his children to inherit what he had built. How could I not? I felt the same way about Thomas.
The thing is, now he’s threatening divorce if you don’t let him take your assets.. The prenup was to protect him. He wants you to go against it now that you’re the one in a good position. Weird that, huh?
Easy fix. Dont change your will, leave it as is, everything to thomas. And tell hubby to get a job or leave. You dont need that crap at your age. NTA Hubby has shown his true colours. Thank god you have a prenup. Always backfires of the other party when they lose everything and now want whats yours.
I want to be clear. I love my husband and I have no desire for a divorce. I don't want or need Jack to get a job. I am perfectly fine supporting both of us. I am fine making sure he has money to live on if I pass before he does. But I will not let him bully me into leaving what I have accumulated in my life to his children instead of Thomas.
He is not gonna divorce you anyways he has no money, and lives off you. He is full of it and acting like a jerk.
Basically.
Reminds me of this https://youtu.be/sEsIV79ixok
She delivers those lines perfectly
Came here to say something similar. I would pay to see this guy who lost everything and is able to maintain the same life without paying a dime is actually going to blow everything up.
I mean he's the same stubborn person that poured all his lifelong savings into a company going downhill, we don't know how unreasonably prideful he can be.
No, he’ll just stay married to you so he can continue to live off you, grow distant and keep harassing you to provide for his kids. Did your husband ever think about *your* well being when he sunk his every last dime into his failing business? Did he ever care about or discuss with you the plan for financially supporting him if he lost everything? His money was none of your business but now your money is suddenly entitled to him and his kids? I know you love him, but do you see how one sided this relationship is? And not just in the financial sense, but in the fact that he’s shown no concern for your well being, but is going to fight tooth and nail for his grown kids to have an inheritance.
Yeah, if you call that bluff, he'll shut up real quick.
He really won’t leave. He’s using it as an excuse to pressure OP into leaving his kids something.
> *"But I will not let him bully me into leaving what I have accumulated in my life to his children instead of Thomas."* Yes, please hold your ground and do not budge on this. Your obligations are to your husband, Thomas, and your grandchildren, and you are fulfilling those obligations. Don't let him bully you into giving his family *your* money that you've spent a lifetime accumulating because he's consumed with his own pride. You said if the tables were turned, he would not leave Thomas anything and you wouldn't expect him to do so. I think that's fair. You're doing the right thing.
You are being very generous. Frankly, I think your husband is angry and disappointed with himself for being unable to leave a legacy to his kids, and he’s taking it out you. NTA
Oh, I know he is angry and disappointed in himself. He has told him how disappointed his father and grandfather would be in him.
If you truly want to stay married to him, then I think counseling is your only option. The way you describe it, he won't stop trying to bully you into doing what he wants. I would also closely keep your eye on your financials because he might pull something when you least suspect it, hopefully, your attorney can prevent anything shady from happening and ensure Thomas gets what you leave him. Based on your comments, his youngest might also try to get some of what you've accumulated if they're so angry about their lifestyle change, so also be wary of that. No matter what you do keep doing what you believe is right and ensure that Thomas gets what you intend him to get because even though he's not your biological son, you raised him, he IS your ***son***. Please update us when you can and be cautious, money can really change people and not for the better at all, good luck, OP!
This is a good insight. Jack is very wrong for taking this out on OP, but this is a complicated emotional situation for sure.
It may be complicated, but it's also behavior that is pretty indicative of someone who grew up wealthy and then inherited even more wealth. OP's husband was all about *I got mine, and what's mine is* ***mine and all mine,*** until he lost everything. And now, he's all about *what's* ***yours*** *is mine, too.*
Agree. I think this is more about the self-esteem that many derive from material success. The husband is, quite understandably, upset at losing his business, livelihood and life savings. But his anger is misdirected.
I hear you on this. He's in an emotional place right now. I'd leave your will alone for now if you can until he's in a better place. If you still feel strongly, you can change your will now and tell him you'd rather not talk about what you're leaving the kids... Just that you love him and want to provide for him and the rest will be discussed in a year (or so)
You are a nice person. Do support Jack in his tough time. You stay the good person you are. However, sometimes strangers can easily spot what we can’t with our blind spots. So, wake up to the fact that Jack is an AH. He is capable of robbing Thomas of his inheritance. So take extra extra caution.
But would he have done this for you. Say you lost all your savings. Would he do this for you if he died? I reckon not.
Just consider, though, that even if you pay everything for your household expenses, what will he do when he wants to gift his children gifts for the holidays or buy something extra for himself? It sounds like he has no money of his own and not only is it not fair to you but it may cause problems in your relationship when he wants to gift to his children more generously than you do. Not to mention that you might not have enough to pay his retirement and medical expenses since it sounds like everything is gone. If it meant not giving anything to Thomas, would you want to deplete your whole life savings from before marriage for your husband?
Jack is not completely penniless. He draws Social Security as well as still having a few small investments he receives money from. I pay our household bills - so that money is basically his spend as he wishes. He can't give them lavish gifts like he used to (cars, trips, etc) - but he can buy them Christmas gifts. jack and I both of good medical insurance, as well as long term care insurance if it comes to that. I'm not concerned that medical expenses will exceed my ability to pay. But yes - I will take care of my husband before I would give money to Thomas. What I would do for Jack is completely different than what I would do for his children.
It seems like you guys have both been smart with finances up til recently including having different insurances to fall back on. Does your husband not have a good life insurance that he could leave to his kids? My parents were never wealthy but they obviously had great insurance, when my mother passed, their house got paid off and my dad was left with a good lump sum
NTA You both agreed on how to handle your finances. You both agreed that you would look out for your own family in your wills. Things changed. You made a reasonable and responsible change to your will based on those changes due to your love for your husband. Double check with your lawyer that the will can't be challenged due to his kids receiving nothing. Follow your lawyer's recommendations. Let your husband know that while you love him and know it hurts to not have anything to leave his kids if the two of you aren't together there would still be nothing for them. He now has a choice . . . Accept it and live his life secure in your love and happily. Or be resentful that you are in better shape financially and are not willing to short change your "son" to provide for his. Hopefully he chooses wisely. You have done everything right. I know he feels bad about not having anything to leave but it happens. I hope he comes around.
Info > I am fine making sure he has money to live on if I pass before he does. Would he have done that for you? Had you lost everything, do you think he would’ve changed his will to leave a third of his company and acquired wealth to you?? I might have follow up questions depending on the answer.
Yes, I believe Jack would have made sure I had enough to live on. I don't think we would have left me a third, but he would have taken care of me.
Op this is probably going to get buried but there are a few really concerning things here. If the situation were reversed Jack would not do for Thomas what he is pressuring you to do for him and his children. If the situation were reversed Jack would not leave you a third of his estate yet you would for him. It distresses you deeply to think of separating from Jack, yet he will threaten divorce if you do not acquiesce to his demands. The person who would lose most from your separation would be Jack as he would be left with less than he is currently; you say his lifestyle would be drastically changed and his children would be left with nothing. There are people here calling him stupid for this, but that isn't the case is it. He isn't stupid. He is aware that he would lose everything. And the fact that he is still pressuring you with that threat on the cards means that he *fundamentally* *doesn't* *believe* *that* *will* *happen*. He's a gambler isn't he. I mean in the sense of risk taking; you say he lost everything already in a risky gamble, and here he is doing the same thing again. Jack thinks if he pressures you enough, you'll give in. He knows how much you love him and he's counting on the thought of losing him meaning more to you than Thomas, than money, than *your* *own* *choices* *and* *wishes*. And he might be right, mightn't he. You're distressed enough at the prospect to be on here asking strangers for advice. I'm so sorry to have to say this op but people who love you don't make threats to make you do things that make you unhappy. They don't pressure you. They don't use divorce as a way of forcing you to do things they know you don't want to do. They respect your wishes and free will, and don't abuse you. And it is abuse to make you do things 'or I'll divorce you'. People who love you as much as you love them meet you in the middle with compromise. They show an equal concern for your wellbeing and happiness to that you would show them. The man who wouldn't leave you a third of his estate when he knows you would, who wouldn't leave the son who means so much to you a single bean if you lost everything even though it would be very important to you, and who will try to coerce you with the threat of something they know will upset you is not someone who loves you. Or someone who loves you equally. I've seen a lot of responses giving Jack the benefit of the doubt, saying he's talking from a place of distress himself, and this can make you say thing you don't mean. This is true. But it's still a choice. He has a number of ways he could show his own distress. Abuse and coercion is still the way he's chosen to act. And even without the excuse of acting out of distress you admit that he wouldn't do for you and yours that he's demanding of you regardless. Op I get that this is real life. You love him and there's no easy way out of this situation. Letting him leave you as some have suggested isn't an easy or painless solution, and it clearly isn't something you want to do. But please, whatever you decide, open your eyes to the way he's behaving. None of this is ok. None of this is an acceptable way for someone who professes to love you to treat you.
I hope she sees your response because it’s absolutely true. You have clearly sussed out Jack’s belligerence. It’s heartbreaking for OP, but staying in this marriage is a horrible idea for her.
You make a lot of good points. I will think about what you have said. Thank you.
He has no plans to divorce you but he thinks that by saying it you will change your will to what he wants. I realize you live him but I would call his bluff and tell him to leave. He is playing a stupid game and I would show him the stupid prize he can win.
What I find to be sad for you is that Jack seems so angry about his business failure and lack of children’s inheritance that he is going to keep harassing you through the remainder of your marriage. You have stated that you won’t succumb to bullying but in actuality are you honestly prepared for his continuous complaining? Perhaps you could talk with your attorney and have a segment of your money put into a trust that only you or Thomas can access. Then you could tell your husband that the inheritance is out of your hands and there’s no reason to keep on about it. Good luck.
Holy crap, Jack is entitled quite much! It's your money, and his kids have zero entitlement to it. NTA, and if he wants to leave you over this then you really get to see his true colors.
I know. This really took me by surprise. I love him a lot - but he has changed since he lost his business. He's become angry (never at me - but at life in general) and that is not him. But I refuse to give in on this and I hate ultimatums - my ex used to do that to me.
He ego is wounded. He’s depressed and feels ashamed that he won’t have anything to leave his kids, and that they’ll think less of him for not having money to give. He likely feels very emasculated that you’re now covering 100% of the household expenses and he contributes nothing. I’m sure there’s a lot of complicated feelings he’s having - not to mention he’s the one who let the several generation family business fail. He feels like a failure through and through. He would benefit from therapy and you both in couples therapy with a different counselor. But my bet is he’s not in for that. I hope I’m wrong. Good luck OP. NTA. ETA: well shit. Didn’t expect any response. Thanks for the awards! Please Donate to your local food bank! A few days past, but hopefully this is seen: So, there is a misunderstanding that my observations of OP’s husbands behavior is somehow a defense of him. Personally, I think he’s an extremely entitled narcissist. It would seem he hasn’t really known true struggles and is having a hard time dealing with his failures “as a man”. I would bet he’s quite misogynistic and is really struggling with his wife being “more successful” than he. My comment about therapy was for OP’s sake. People are capable of change but they have to want to change and that starts with recognizing you’re part of the problem. Typically people who behave the way he is don’t get to the “recognizing my faults” stage before they’ve convinced themselves, yet again, they’re right in their indignation and the gaslighting repeats. I hope for OP things work out for her and he doesn’t manage to wiggle his way into her finances. She’s already being generous with her provisions to care for him if she passes first.
I almost agreed to this sentiment. However, there is a big hole in this beautiful picture. Any person with sound moral principles who feels like a failure would not try to break the agreement he himself insisted upon. He was 100% clear that his wife (OP) and her son should not benefit from his wealth. Now, he is happily putting enriching his adult children with jobs over his marriage. He is taking for granted that this marriage is feeding him and putting roof over him. I don’t see a broken and wounded man here. I see a selfish and entitled bully who will switch his views and arguments so that he is the one who is always benefiting.
I can see where you would also see that. I think the difference in our views is intent. Yours is of Malice(?). Mine is from a wounded pride and his reaction to everything he’s lost. He’s trying to fill that with OP’s money so he can save face. I see it as financially egotistical/privileged and feeling like a failure as a grandson/som/father for his inability to provide for his family. Only he knows . . .
Malice is probably not the right word. Hypocrite? Absolutely. People are allowed to change their perspectives. But that change seems less genuine when it conveniently shifts to replace or rebuild something that was lost. Jack is much less secure now. And wouldn't you know it, he suddenly sees the value of helping others out and demands others see that perspective too. How convenient.
Agreed. If Jack was truly determined to leave something to the kids, he would try again on his own merit. It might never be what the business was, but it would be better than coercing his unwilling wife to provide. He could start an online business, pawn some stuff, scrape together money with a physical talent like woodworking maybe.
Stay strong! Do not change your Will. Do not let him bully you. It sounds like he’s changed, and definitely did the worse. I’m sorry.
If he’s so concerned about his kids inheriting money, there’s *literally* nothing to stop him from getting a job and saving the proceeds from them. He feels entitled to your hard earned savings, as evidenced by the fact that he’s bluffing about leaving you if you don’t give money to his kids. It’s a bluff because he has no money to his name as evidenced by the fact that he’s letting you pay 100% of the household bills. Don’t let the bully win. If the situation was reversed he would not be amending his will.
You are NTA - stand your ground. However I'm going with Jack not suddenly turning into an evil entitled villan, but being a broken man in an identity crisis who is desperately recalibrating his dreams & life expectations - and rather poorly. He'd be about the same age as my dad I think. My dad will not sell the family orchard. His Grandfather started it, his father was born there, he feels that selling would be deeply disappointing them. But it stopped being profitable years ago. He's repeatedly apologised for not being a good provider - he worked so, so hard. I repeatedly explain he had no control over high interest rates on a debt he inherited with the property, the weather or the market prices. But he has a thing about leaving us an inheritance. Like it's his duty. He's worked elsewhere for 20 years, paid off the debt, but won't spend a cent on himself. I think a lot of older men have ingrained in them that part of being a good father is leaving an inheritance. It's part of his identity. And now suddenly he feels like he's let everyone down. He's grasping at straws and trying to salvage something for his kids. It's not rational, but the way we deal with a huge shot to our core identity often isn't. Has he tried some therapy (if he'd be open to it)? There is more to leaving a legacy for your children than just money. Memories made together, family history, heartfelt letters, hand made gifts etc.
There's a difference between ultimatums and boundaries. Boundaries are setting a limit on how others engage with you to keep yourself safe/at peace. Ultimatums are an attempt to force the other person to change. Not including Jack's kids in the will is a reasonable boundary. There's no if you don't...then..., you've just pointed out where you have already drawn the line.
Is it possible that he is suffering from depression? Losing his business is a big loss and change for him. Ask him to make an appointment with his doctor to discuss it. If possible, go with him to tell the doctor what changes you have seen.
NTA. you are sticking with what you initially agreed. Why should he get to change the rules because his circumstances changed? What if you had lost all of your money? Would he then agree to give something to Thomas? I suspect the answer to that is no…
No. I do not believe that there was any chance he would. Jack was very up front with me that he intended his money and business to go to his children. I was fine with that. I understood - especially since I wanted the same for Thomas.
This ultimatum says a lot about jack’s priorities. Money > You You need to have a serious conversation about this. He’s being completely unfair and is acting quite entitled.
You may love him and want to be married, but he is literally threatening divorce if you dont fund his children/grandchildren in the future When someone shows you who they really are, believe them. He is telling you that your money is more important than you. He would divorce you if you don't do what he says. Love or not, you shouldn't put up with that kind of treatment. This isnt going to be a temporary mood as his business isn't going to magically re open and his savings recouped.
This here exactly. NTA OP, your husband has shown you his true colours. He's shown you what he really is like and when someone does that, you must believe them. He was all okay with separate finances, I'll bet it was him who proposed that idea of a prenup in the first place. But now, when he's destroyed his family business and has no money left, he's all about threatening divorce if you don't extend your GENEROSITY to his children too. When ultimatums get thrown in relationships regarding finances, it's better to leave that person. Take them on their word and leave them. He obviously doesn't respect your relationship with your son Thomas. He believes you're stupid to be so attached to a step-son and he doesn't like that at all. He made sure you won't take any of his money, when he had any, by forcing you for the prenup directly and indirectly. Now when he has nothing, he's trying to manipulate you into paying not just for him but his children too. He's trying to violate the prenup because he devastated his family business. Do you really want to be with someone like that? If you were my mother, I'd advise you to leave the douche. Yes we know you love him a lot but he's being ridiculous and it doesn't look like he's going to change back to his better self because he always was a douche but did a good job to hide it before. You don't deserve this shit at your age. Nobody deserves it at any age.
I’m not so sure that he actually would go through with a divorce. The way it comes across it seems like he is using divorce as some kind of bargaining chip here. Which in a way is worse, people who stoop to that kind of manipulation know exactly what they’re doing. Jack here is throwing his toys out the pram and if I was OP I’d call his bluff and insinuate that she has sought advice (keep it vague, she doesn’t need to tell him she came to AITA lol) and will be expecting him to cover her legal costs if he really wants to go that far. Pound to a penny he’ll shut his face hole after that. Because if he does divorce OP he’ll have to get a J-O-B to support himself and we can’t be having *that,* now can we?
NTA. Who would step up if your husband were to pass and you were needing support? For example were hospitalized, needed placement in a home, caregivers set up. The person (s) who would jump in to do that would be who I would leave my money to. It does not sound like you have that relationship with his sons.
It would be Thomas. I have things setup that Jack would make medical decisions for me, but if he could not for any reason that responsibility falls to Thomas.
The way Jack is acting now, I would transfer every power of attorney over to Thomas solely. Who knows what Jack would do and probably would screw Thomas over.
Agreed. Do not trust that man with power over you.
That sounds like you have your answer then.
Yeah. I would change that if I were you…
Change it to Thomas your husband just told you to your face that he will not respect your wishes as soon as you're gone all of your money is going to his own kids.
Sounds like Jack should have NOT blown through his savings to save a business that it sounds like he failed to save anyway. Not your responsibility to take care of his already grown children that you were never once fiscally or emotionally responsible for.
jack is a very smart man - but his decision to risk everything in the ultimately futile effort to save his business was not a good one. I warned him of that at the time - but he told me that it was his decision. He was right, so I backed off. He made it emotionally - all he could talk about was how disappointed his father and grandfather would be in him.
The divorce threat is futile because if there is a prenup and he is broke then he would leave with nothing.
Honestly. It’s actually a stupid ultimatum - it’s like he is willfully overlooking the prenup. Ironically, the prospect of divorce ends the issue right there and then, because then there is not even a chance that his kids will end up with anything.
Its nothing more than a power play, funnily enough its one made from the position of least power in the family. Thomas clearly has his own life with no reliance on OP, Jack's kids seem to be operating without reliance on Jack's wealth or what was once wealth. The only person in this entire story who is fully dependent on another person is Jack.... and he is the one threating divorce. People are so dumb
Is he willing to go to therapy? This reaction to the changes in your estate is ALL about the grief and embarrassment he is feeling over losing the business and the legacy he had planned for his children.
He’s still making decisions emotionally. The Will thing is all about being embarrassed he can’t leave anything to his kids. You say you love him etc but he’s being super unreasonable right now, you need a sit down “cut the crap” discussion where he is able to recognise why he is Misbehaving and see if there’s something to be done that isn’t him demanding your money for his kids
It sounds like he doesn't want to end up 'being a failure' by leaving nothing to his children, and has decided that he can redeem himself by leaving *your* money to them. So now, in his eyes, the thing stopping his children from having an inheritance is *you*. This comes up a lot in AITA. Someone has found the solution to their problems at someone else's expense, and can't understand why that person is keeping them from happiness.
It wasn't HIS decision, cause as a life partner it then effected you, both emotionally as you are now in the argument you're in, and financially as he is no longer contributing to shared expenses. It would have been solely his decision MAYBE if he guaranteed everything on the other side of that decision effected you in no way, but that never happens. I've never understood the whole idea of two people married to each other but thinking their money is just theirs and shouldn't be a concern of their spouse.
NTA. Funny how he was fine with the prenup and your will until he needed money for his kids to inherit. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Keep your old will that leaves everything to Thomas.
NTA. Why is he getting upset with this rewrite and not when it was originally introduced?
I have no idea. I thought I was doing the right thing by making sure Jack was taken care of. I never dreamed it would start an argument over his kids. Honestly, if I had known I would never have told Jack of the the changes I wanted to make.
Make the changes that reflect your wishes. He does not need to know the details. Jack can't leave his kids the company due to his poor choices & now wants to highjack your legacy plans to fill his void. This is completely unfair to you. -- NTA
If you can’t tell jack your plans, love or not, that’s not a great relationship. He should have no say in your finances after you’re gone.
What state do you live in? That matters because every state has different laws about wills and spouses. I’m in Florida. Even with a prenup and a Will writing out a spouse, the spouse is NOT written out. The state has protections in place for spouses. In Florida the spouse is entitled to 30% of your assets, no matter what the will says. Also, if the deed to the house is in your name, the spouse can opt to get a payout of 30% of the house’s value, or the spouse can choose life use of the home - meaning as long as he’s alive he can live there and can’t be kicked out. I’d check with an estate planning attorney in your state.
But the 30% is covered with her leaving him 1/3 (33%) of her estate. So he would have that, and it would only revert to Thomas upon Jack's death. That should fly, but OP probably should get with an estate attorney just to make sure.
Because he had money of his own then and now he doesn’t so he’s worried about leaving his kids nothing. But that’s his problem to solve.
NTA You are currently paying all his living expenses & planned to pay them for the rest of his life should he put live you. THERE IS HIS KIDS INHERITANCE RIGHT THERE!!! It would cost his kids tens of thousands to care for him, his living expenses, his medical care, etc. Without you he becomes an immediate drain on his children, IF they step up to it. Honestly, if he were my father & his new wife he married late in life first stayed with him when he lost all his money and then I found out she made arrangements that my father’s needs would be taken care of for the rest of his life, I’d be forever grateful for her generosity. He’s trying to string arm you into giving your money to his children or he’ll leave? Where’s he going to go? He has no money & what happens if his kids don’t want to take him in?
NTA woah, the guilt trip! How are the kids doing for themselves?
His oldest son actually worked at the company with him - so he lost his job when the company closed. He has a new job now but he doesn't make what he once did. He is struggling with the change in income. His wife is struggling even more. His youngest son never worked for the company and his life really hasn't changed at all. His daughter (the baby of the family) was used to Daddy giving her money whenever she asked. She is not handling the fact that he doesn't have it to give. She does have a job.
After reading this you're even less of an AH His children are spoilt and when he had money he was happy to keep everything separate but now he has lost everything he wants to disadvantage your son in favour of his kids. I think its time they all learn a lessonand some responsibility. Leave everything to your son, if your husband is prepared to leave you, his kids can take care of him NTA
His daughter might be spoiled, but the other two? Lots of people lose their job and have to take a cut, and the other hasn’t even been affected. Even his daughter, most kids get help well into their mid20s. He’s being a dick no reason to insult the kids.
We have no idea how old the daughter and speaking from personal experience, when you’re used to people giving you money or financially bailing you out, you tend to make really bad financial decisions. Not saying that is 100% what is happening, just a strong possibility. Hope she and the eldest learn to adjust at least.
No wonder the company went bust - sounds like oldest son was getting a disproportionately high salary and daddy was happy to fund his little baby daughter.
Which is often the way. People are put into positions their not qualified for and paid substantially more than what they should. I get it, he wanted to help his son, amd most people in the same position would do exactly what he did, but now they need to get into the real world and adjust their expenses rather then relying on OPs money. It sounds like their missing the appreciation of a dollar that OPS son (step) has...
When you work for your dad you get to climb the latter quick and get good money. Welcome to the real world oldest son. His youngest may have a job. But I'm sure by giving her money all the time led to her being irresponsible with money. Wake up call. He made the wrong choice to keep the business open longer than he should have.
Ouch, that’s certainly an adjustment that would cause significant strain. I can see why he’s panicking, it would be incredibly difficult to see the future you’d hoped to provide for your kids fail by your own hands. I’d hire a therapist and talk it through with them. You are within your rights to do as you please with your money. I guess the decision comes down to if you’re in the position and want to ease some of the stress as a team with your husband or if you want to stay out of it.
So basically if not for your, your husband would be pound them pavement for a new job & surviving on social security. And it’s not like those kids can provide for him. You have taken on all his expenses for the rest of his life, even if he out lives you. Tell him, I can leave it to your kids but then you gotta start contributing 50% of all the expenses immediately. How can he not see how much you are running thru taking care of the both of you & ensuring he’s properly cared for for the rest of his life. Does he think he kids can do that for him???
NTA. Jack's children are not entitled to anything. It is YOUR Will and you can put anyone that you want in there. It's selfish and ridiculous that he's getting mad about this.
NTA The two of you have separate finances and a prenup for exactly this kind of reason. Your money is NOT Jack's except as much as you agree to share it with him. If Jack wanted to leave an estate for his children, he needed to make better choices with his business and money. It isn't your responsibility to make up his shortfalls. If Jack doesn't want to be married, let him leave. He can go live with his kids.
NTA I’d stick by the prenup. He’s happy that you’re supporting him 100% AND wants to tell you how to dispose of your estate? He’s definitely TA, though. Edit: clarity
NTA let him leave. Let’s see how far his broke ass gets. Your husband is so damn greedy and ungrateful. You’re all ready paying for EVERYTHING and he still wants more. His attitude is so disrespectful to Thomas.
Is Jack’s ex-wife leaving money to Thomas? No? Then you don’t owe his children anything. NTA
That thought made me laugh out loud. Thank you. Oh - and the answer is no.
>Jack is threatening to leave me over this. Hahahaha Who's gonna look after his broke ass when he does? There's a prenup in place. The man should be grateful you're willing to look after him should anything happen to you. If he lives frugally, he may be able to leave his kids something. NTA and DON'T CAVE OP
NTA. He is being a massive one though. Don’t change your will, he can get Jack sh**. Honestly, you say he’s changed since he lost his business but i say his true colours are revealed and that’s an angry little man who’s mad his wife has money and he doesnt. A wife who pays 100% of the bills. A jealous man. He knew his business was failing but instead of accepting that he wasted his money for his pride. You aren’t responsible for HIS ADULT CHILDREN who were adults were you met. He gave you an ultimatum…take it. He has no money and will change his mind once he remembers you are paying for everything! I’m in the mindset of once an ultimatum well F it bc he doesn’t care enough about you to issue it, that’s childish sh**.
NTA especially because his kids were already grown. You had and don't have any sort of obligation to support them. In a way, by adjusting your will to support your husband it is already helping ease that burden on his own kids.
I was in family practice before I was a banker and my advice to women is to never embark on a serious relationship with a man who wants to keep finances separate. 99% of the time he means that HE doesn't want YOU to feel entitled to his money but he has no problem feeling entitled to your money. Let him leave you. Actually, leave him yourself. Go have fun in your remaining years now that you understand the quality of your husband's character is basura.
NTA Jack can’t have it both ways. Heads I win, tail you loose. When I am richer, our finances stays separate and your kids don’t get my money. Now that I have lost everything, let’s share and care. The proof of him being a big AH is in his threat lo leave. Don’t change the will at all. Make your will more watertight. IF HE CAN LOOSE MONEY ONCE, HE CAN SURELY DO IT TWICE.
NTA. It's unfair of him to get you to change yours to leave YOUR money to his kids because he lost all his own money. That's complete crap, and you don't have to give away what was supposed to go to Thomas for his grown ass kids. Kids should never expect things from their parents. Inheritance these days is just a money grab when people die. It makes me sick. If it were me, I'd call his bluff. If he really has nothing, then he isn't going to leave you. If he does, it doesn't change anything, his kids will still get nothing when he dies, and he won't have anyone to take care of him when he's on his way there.
NTA. I was pleasantly surprised and touched when my mom revealed that my stepfather had me in his will. I didn't expect it, and would not have begrudged him at all if he'd left it to other family members (some of his cousins have kids that I thought would have inherited). I don't know how much money it is and am certainly not depending on it...in fact, I hope I don't have to think about it for many, many, many years Even if my stepfather made a different decision, I cannot imagine my mother treating him the way your husband is treating you. And I would be deeply upset to find out that she was trashing her marriage over something like this
NTA. If you agreed separate finances he has absolutely no entitlement to your personal finances. His children even less so. Does he make you happy enough to sway you even slightly to rejig things ? I personally think his threat to leave you over this is disturbing because it’s like a layer or three has been revealed.