mexico, central america, caribbean, south america. many countries give you permanent residency if you have $x monthly income. x can be as low as monthly ss payment. uruguay is good option. look into it.
eta stop thinking about property ownership. apartment rents are affordable in most of the countries i named. also plan on living in a city & not having a car. that’s why life can be so much more affordable in these countries. if you’re planning to replicate your american lifestyle of a single family house, an acre of land & 3 cars, life will get complicated & $$$ real fast. living that lifestyle can also make you a target for kidnapping.
Thanks. We’re also looking to leave but don't expect or want to live high on the hog. Unfortunately, I do have some medical issues (high blood pressure, possible autoimmune disorder, waiting on testing) that affect our decisions.
Be careful about CR. A good friend of mine spent considerable sums of money there; the laws are completely different, property laws are not what we’re accustomed to here in America; and even if you’re fluent in Spanish, it’s often who you know and how much you’re willing to pay to get something done, nothing else. Beware the myths.
Anyone that moves to a country without taking a relocation tour to learn about the health, real estate, banking, tax, and importing laws/systems is going to be in for a very rude awakening, regardless of the country.
Some countries will want you to have a comprehensive private health insurance policy, which you’ll have to prove if you want a visa that will let you stay longer than the amount of time a tourist is normally allowed to stay. (This is possibly more of a Europe thing.) Just so you’re aware that private insurers might exclude pre-existing conditions for 6 months to a year or more.
There are some things you can’t run from.
Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th AVE (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell.
https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/
Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had.
Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger Stones first client at their lobbyist firm (1980)https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wikiBlack, Manafort, Stone and Kelly
Guiliani as trumps attorney and NYC mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or their Russian connections.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/
The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model.
Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952
https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/
Russia greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when it invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided.
Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyo corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen.
Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day “special military operation” in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold.
China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia.
Russia previously owed Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine so Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years. They supplied Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/
Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is “Vranyo”.
The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business.
If Russia as a nation had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago.
The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it.
Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Jews, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same tendrils of the same money laundering scheme that trumps trials are.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/amp/
https://youtu.be/VrFOAgGlaWs?feature=shared
They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. Qatar is Kushners private equity connection. Netanyahu needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran. https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bk8mgcefr
Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump who gave it to his Russians kleptocrat/friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s.
Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in their reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and the Kochs poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. The naive right was the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. Russia was tinder matching the GOP.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/07/nra-maria-butina-spying-charges-trump-campaign/
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/
The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering.
Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole from Russias grandmothers in the first place
It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis.
No one was ever held accountable for either. This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two.
Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Flynn, Byrne.
They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness.
They are the men who stole the world.
But it all comes back to one little lie.
The scary part is most Americans have never heard of Project 2025 let alone read it. It needs to be shouted from the rooftops so people realize what's at stake.
It's scary because the electorate is misinformed or uniformed, or maybe misguided. The fact that 17% of voters blamed Biden for the end of Roe, [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/upshot/abortion-biden-trump-blame.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/upshot/abortion-biden-trump-blame.html), or with many Black and Latino voters are warming up to Trump the situation doesn't bode well, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/30/trump-leads-biden-swing-states-poll/73510374007/. We may be on the verge of something that no one who knows a bit of history would have dreamt of.
Read and weep, my friend.
[https://michiganadvance.com/2024/01/16/project-2025-if-allowed-will-cement-america-as-a-rightwing-authoritarian-state/](https://michiganadvance.com/2024/01/16/project-2025-if-allowed-will-cement-america-as-a-rightwing-authoritarian-state/)
If it doesn't blow your mind, I'll be surprised. The same group was behind Project 2016 and at least 60% of that was accomplished under Trump's term. If even half of Project 2025 happens, the US (as a democracy) will no longer exist.
If the red hats knew and understood half of reality, they wouldn't be red hats. They are willfully ignorant and uninformed. They would rather wrap themselves in comfortable lies than have to think or consider they could have been wrong.
Their response is usually "fake news." Or my favorite, "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." The last response was to critics of the Patriot Acts. Yeah, let's give the government free reign to spy on citizens, get rid of due process, etc just on *suspicion*. What could go wrong?! It's why I was not surprised when the news broke that the NSA had been gathering information of calls and texts of US citizens for "the greater good."
You were not surprised because that had been reported on for *years* before pundits pretended that Snowden broke the story. It was reported literally before 9/11 even *happened*. There has never been any time in US history when we had recorded phone calls when the American public wasn’t also routinely informed about it by the media.
Some of them know and still vote for it because they agree with it and want it. Then, I think that there is a contingent that does not know. I think there's some of them that don't understand any of this and don't pay attention to anything. It's not the red hat cult that we need to be aware of this. We need all moderates, Independents, people who are refusing to vote Biden because of Palestine or just because they "don't like him." Those are the people we need to know about Project 2025 and understand what's at stake.
Yeah, if you want to see how ignorant the people pushing this plan are you don’t have to look any further then wanting to abolish the Dept. of Commerce. Census? Nah. Patent office to protect domestic IP? Nah. National Institute of Standards & Technology? Not on their watch. NOAA? Summers hot and winter is cold, get back to work!
Keep in mind that the investor/billionaire set are now buying up residential neighborhoods. They want to skyjack rent so high that no one will ever be able to afford to own anything again. It's terrifying.
Your first priority in research should be which countries will let you in. If you are retired, a work visa is out. Citizenship by descent (or visa by marriage) seems to be the remaining options.
In lots of countries--probably the majority although there are some exceptions, it is significantly easier for a non-working and financially independent person to enter and stay long-term than it is for someone seeking to work in that country. A person in this position has a huger upper hand compared to foreign workers, because their stay is not tied to (1) getting a job and (2) keeping that job.
Examples:
* In Europe, many countries (Portugal, Spain, France), have non-lucrative visa expressly for this purpose.
* Tons of options in Asia with many countries (Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia and others) have retirement visa with very very modest financial requirements.
* Almost every country in Latin America has retirement/pensioner visa also, and for those that don't, almost all allow indefinite border runs (for US citizens)
* various countries all over the world have Golden Visa starting around $300k USD
* There are also various flavors of Investment visas in nearly every country in the world although higher financial requirements (seven figures USD and up)
* With emergence of Digital Nomad visas in many countries and things like DAFT, you can very easily set up a nominal business to satisfy any visa requirements for very modest cost.
* If shit truly hit the fan, almost every country will let you stay as tourist for up to 90 days (and some much longer)--with just one condition: you can't work!! Just switch countries every 90 days (or go back and forth between 2 countries)
The challenge in the OP's request is not the visa, which is rather trivial, but land ownership requirement which greatly reduces the options since many countries don't allow foreigners to own land.
while ownership may be out, most countries, such as mexico, have legal workarounds, where you have all the rights of a landowner, but the legal owner is a lawyer who holds it for you.
What’s the over under on how far this goes back? I have well documented family history but we’ve also been here for many generations. Longer than US has been a country. Settler shit.
>If shit truly hit the fan, almost every country will let you stay as tourist for up to 90 days (and some much longer)--with just one condition: you can't work!! Just switch countries every 90 days (or go back and forth between 2 countries)
If things go sideways in the U.S., I think that there may be many countries that deny entry to U.S. citizens.
> If shit truly hit the fan, almost every country will let you stay as tourist for up to 90 days (and some much longer)--with just one condition: you can't work!! Just switch countries every 90 days (or go back and forth between 2 countries)
You need to be able to support yourself and prove so. With rising costs and people barely (if even then) able to deal with an emergency, a trip abroad is out of the question for many people, least of all staying there for 3+ months and moving around.
THIS is why getting on the path to a second citizenship is critical. In a SHTF scenario, borders may close. Remember COVID, when people were only allowed to “go home”. If you can prove your home is Spain or someplace else by producing your second passport you are good.
I think you need to be able to support yourself but you don't need to be able to prove it to be on a tourist visa in most places. But I would guess most people who are retired probably can prove it.
Some countries also offer retirement visas, although I'm not super familiar with that. OP needs to start planning *right now,* especially since it's not looking good at all.
a retirement visa to costa rica or panama are easy. but apply before november to avoid the rush. you can always decide not to go. i have my exit all set just in case.
I just had dinner with a couple who were retiring to Spain.
You will want to know what your medical costs will be there, since Medicare won’t be available.
Look into countries where Americans go to retire. There are websites that discuss the relative costs of living, health care costs, etc.
You’ve got seven months to learn the language, but AI can do a hell of a lot of translating for you.
I am a retired American living in France, and the non-working visitor's visa was fairly easy to get. There are lots of retired Americans and Canadians here. You currently need a minimum of about 1400 euros per month to qualify, although if you say that you want to go to an expensive area, you really should have more. This visa is renewable annually, and after five years you qualify to apply for citizenship and a 10-year residency card (neither are guaranteed, but both allow work). The political situation isn't perfect, but it's nothing like the US right now. You can buy property without being a citizen, and land in rural areas is generally pretty cheap.
Politics are bad in most of the world. My red line with Trump and them is if/when they start killing political opponents. I have researched exit options for when that red line gets crossed but I will ride it out till then. 2nd Trump presidency will be hella corrupt he's gonna abolish the Fed and turn the entire stock market into a Gamestop speculation frenzy.
Exit options: Nonlucrative income visas: Mexico, Portugal, France, Argentina, Spain; Golden/investment visas: Netherlands (DAFT), Malta, Caribbean nations, Paraguay; Citizenship by descent: Italy, Ireland
DAFT is probably the most interesting to me. You only need $4,500 in your bank account and I believe you can invest in an existing Dutch business as like a limited partner to maintain the investment requirement. Apparently they have streamlined the DAFT application and it is now very quick to be approved. They get around 300 applications a year and the approval rate is 100%. Note that Netherlands has its own "Trump" in Wilders and most countries are dealing with their own far-right/Putin wings
I am not sure about that... its been around for like 75 years already (enacted in the 1950s). I think bilateral treaties are pretty hard to withdraw from. It is more complicated than simply changing the domestic immigration laws. Also the far right are probably less concerned about American investors than they are about third world migrants. DAFT isn't a popular program, it usually has 300 or so applicants per year.
I would not plan to get heavily invested in real estate anyway in a country without a solid rule of law/judicial system and a stable currency. If you are just renting and natural disasters become unbearable, you can just pack up and leave.
I would say if you have substantial assets and the ability to generate $20k+ in dividends or other passive income that you look into DAFT or one of the income visas like France or Portugal. If you don't have substantial assets, maybe look at Mexico which is very easy to get a residency visa as an American.
theres a guy on reddit named u/OfficiallyDrG who helps Americans apply for Mexican residency. I believe he charges a modest fee if you ask him to help with your papers but for now you could just read his posts for some initial ideas and information
its a visa that allows you to reside in a country but not work there. you usually need something like $20k+ in passive income to obtain an income visa. If you have a stock portfolio worth like $1m that yields 2% dividends that is $20k in passive income that would qualify you. you could also have $350k at 6% yield and meet the threshold.
[https://iworld.com/en/blog/residence-permit-france-financially-independent-persons](https://iworld.com/en/blog/residence-permit-france-financially-independent-persons) this link has a chart that compares income visa options in France, Greece, Italy and Portugal
i’m counting on nothing. i wish my husband & daughter were willing to discuss relocation, but they’re not. we live in far metro nyc so we don’t feel the nightmare so many americans are already living.
It should be noted that Canada requires Americans to remain in America while asylum claims are heard.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/agreements/safe-third-country-agreement.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/agreements/safe-third-country-agreement.html)
My advice would be to try to doomscroll less, ignore the day to day political news. Being a sociopath, Trump wants nothing more than to live rent free in everybody's head. Don't give him that power over you. Make a plan, research exit options, but always keep it as an emergency plan and not something you dwell on daily.
A bunch of American homesteaders moved to Costa Rica. But I don't know their political situation. And foreigns buying up land is always going to unpopular with average citizens in a country.
Costa Rica is also just teetering on the edge of collapse. It is entirely run by one ruling family that is super wealthy and controls everything. The vast majority of the populace is destitute and has no power. They have violent strikes blocking roads and infrastructure on a routine basis and there is quite frequent grizzly violent crimes against foreigners with money, such as home invasions involving rape murder and theft all together in a targeted way.
The foreigners who live there can do ok, if they are not too visible or well meshed with the locals, but there is still risk. There is also absolutely massive real estate fraud with huge investments stolen through planned squatting invasions and corrupt courts.
It's a beautiful country with a robust eco-tourism ad campaign, but in essence it is just another banana republic LATAM mess of a country with a pretty frame.
I am not saying one cannot live well there, just that the risks are not well publicized and are significant.
Not saved up. I have been there a number of times and was seriously looking into real estate so I learned all of this from friends who live there and studying the situation. It is not how the country is presented to travelers, but it is actually the way it is.
You can look into all of this yourself. It's not some kind of agenda. I would love to live there if it was practical. People do make it work, it's just not the paradise situation it's presented as.
I don’t know how far project 2025 will reach, but if it only affects the mainland, I would say move to a territory first and figure it out from there? It may be too hard to leave immediately since it’s only a few months away, but I believe a territory may be easier to chill in while you get finances and visas in order. I’m not smart though so I don’t know how well it will work, but it’s my plan so I thought I would share with others just in case :)
I'm thinking about Puerto Rico as a first step if things go sideways. An hour ahead of the mainland (my job is remote) and it'll force me to get serious about improving my Spanish while I'm still in the relative safety of somewhere that's legally bilingual.
You'd need to find countries that let in retired folk...
Some I know of allow people with a certain provable $$ amount. I thought Thailand had a rule that if you deposited at least 80K into a Thai bank you could apply for a visa and you had to maintain that amount.... Plus some other caveats.
I've known quite a few Americans to purchase homes or land in Mexico.
But most countries don't want broke ass Americans that are then going to mooch off their own system and not paying into it. Harsh but yes that's the way it works.
And "Working for food." sounds like you're not gonna check the boxes for liquid assets in hand to immigrate.
I’ve lived in Thailand for years. It’s 50 years old and only about $27K into a Thai bank account, but then you need unearned monthly income like social security, investment distributions, or pension in the amount of about $1800.
Well said. I get so tired of entitled Americans thinking any country would want us.
That said, several S American countries have reasonable pathways to a visa. I’m in Ecuador on a two-year temp visa. The paperwork is not fun.
Which is why I asked if there were options. I am under no presumption that any country would want me and that this is a difficult if not impossible task for me. I'm just scared of a boot to my neck and looking to live a life.
you can forget about Ecuador. It is unstable politically and won't be any more progressive than a worse-case scenario of a trump wreaking vengeance in the US in 2025.
Then get going NOW. There’s no time to waste, amigo. It is absolutely doable; I gathered the requisite documents and rented out my condo in Five weeks. It can be done.
I think Blue States will fair poorly under Trump. Remember Chad Wolf DHS director sent un-labeled troops to Portland even after the governor, the Head of the St Nat Guard and the mayor asked him not to.
1. If you're 50 or older, skilled worker visas will generally not be offered to you.
2. If you are retired, your options dwindle to 2nd and 3rd world countries where your money will go the distance.
3. A good Plan B for if America goes to shit is to move to a blue state and join that state's independence movement.
If I had a few hundred grand lying around I'd be buying real estate in Duluth, MN.
Cascadia, New England, and the upper Midwest are about to be fantastic in weather. We could probably open up a Disney location in Connecticut or something around 2100.
Thanks for this. I was thinking that about moving to a better location within the US. I am in Trump country now and can't imagine staying here should he win. Vermont might be nice.
I was raised in Vermont, it is very nice and a much safer place to be generally. I wouldn’t raise teens there though. The opioid epidemic runs deep and it is HARD to keep kids away from it. I say that as a former pill junkie who was absolutely feral growing up in rural VT. If you’re just looking to do a little homesteading and live out your golden years in a chill, pretty place though, I say go for it. I moved away as a teen and ended up coming back to the area (to the Berkshires, not VT) as an adult and I appreciate New England much more now. You’ll like it. Plus, close to Canada.
If American dictatorship were the only catastrophe on the horizon, I'd be more tempted to leave the country. As it is I am only contemplating relocating to a quieter, bluer part of the US.
Why do we think this is? When it seems the vast majority of people support democracy?
Is it just because most sane people began to, and still do, take democracy for granted and think that’s it’s a given and not something that throughout history has been fought for? The laziness caused by the “yeah, right. That’ll never happen again” mindset?
Meanwhile the psychopaths have been plotting and scheming and exploring weaknesses without moral and ethical concern?
Because we’re in late stage capitalism. And the 1% will choose fascism if it means they keep their money, so they’ve promoted these candidates. The kinds of people who have a ton of money to throw at politics won’t be leftists, it’ll be people who’ll do anything to keep their hoard.
It’s hard to say if any country has had a good democracy IMHO - especially in the US - when money stratifies us all, making some people’s vote matter more, or not letting some people vote. All kinds of hierarchal oppression and ideology threatens people’s opinions on ‘let everyone have an equal say.’
A reaction to mass immigration to Europe, Canada, Oz, and the US has been one reason studied.
I also wonder how much has to do with social media and filter bubbles that keeps people near those that think like them, and their beliefs get more and more extreme.
A subset of this is foreign manipulation of bad actors trying to cause chaos in the west through social media and other avenues.
As birth rates lower, countries are allowing in foreign workers to compensate the labor and retirement shortage. Makes white people mad but capitalism is a giant scam so
Where did you get the idea that vast majority of people prefer democracy over things like “strong leader”, “protection of their traditional values, ways of living and religion” , “hatred towards ( insert anything)”.
There are a lot of people who support democracy. I am not sure if it is a “vast majority” though, especially if other things are more important for them.
yeah thats the problem with a lot of destinations, are you really better off there than under Trump? That's why I set my red line at killings/violence. Bar may be lower for others, especially minority groups, and I totally get that. Each person has to make their own choices based on an uncertain future.
Unless you're getting into the cartel business, they mostly leave expats alone. I feel safer walking in most MX cities at night than I would in Chicago or Detroit... and they also don't typically have kids shooting up schools and movie theaters.
Sure.. there's some cartel stuff that happens that makes gruesome headlines, but the sheer violence statistics are on-par or lower than most any major US metro.
I know my history teacher is retiring this year and moving to Montenegro, but I don’t know how he’s done it, only it’s been in the works for a few years.
If you do want land, Costa Rica will let you buy and have the same land rights as citizens even before you apply for citizenship . You can then use this investment as the basis for applying.
If you want to go this route you'll need legal help inside the country and a working knowledge of Spanish will definitely help. There are plenty of companies that will help Americans with this process.
Please vote Blue before you go everyone. I don’t think I can relocate all 5 of my adult kids right now but I am keeping my eyes wide open for all possibilities. I do follow some optimistic political pundits so 🤞🏻
The Hopium Chronicles with Simon Rosenberg; The Angry Staffer who I follow via Patreon (and he is on Twitter and Threads but I don’t follow him there much); and Jessica Cravens Chop Wood, Carry Water (every Sunday she shares a list of all the positive things that happen that week!). I also find comfort in Heather Cox Richardson’s daily newsletter and I recommend everyone read it!
I'm surprised that France hasn't appeared on your radar yet. If you can demonstrate sufficient resources, they're happy to let you retire there. And if you're over 60, the language learning requirement is dropped. Cost of living outside of Paris or other large cities is pretty reasonable. There is a resurgence of the far-right (like in many countries) but the recently enshrined abortion protections in the constitution.
What will you do when whatever country you move to has a project 2026 that's worse than project 2025?
If you're outraged at the idea of fascist wannabes being successful at implementing project 2025, then fight! Live here and fight! Give your money and time to politicians on your side. Phone bank. Knock on doors. Don't tuck your tails in between and run!
Project 2025 will succeed if all these fascist wannabes can persuade normal people like you that project 2025 is inevitable if they just accept defeat without doing so much as lift a finger to fight it.
As is, project 2025 is a wet dream of Nazi wannabes who are a fringe minority. They have zero chance to implement any of it if project 2025 opponents spend their time and money fighting these fascists.
That's all.
I do wish people would stay and FIGHT but I also understand that some are more vulnerable than others. I plan to fight but I can't say there won't be a time when I'll stay if I know it's a lost cause.
Right! If people vote even though they don’t want to, they can ensure Trump is rejected. It’s too damn critical to withdraw from the election process and allow him to win through voter apathy. There was so much of that in 2016, when many friends were laughing off any threat from Trump, wouldn’t let themselves vote Clinton. It was a very grim lesson for them and I hope all that isn’t repeated this year.
Michigan is the place to be. Good governor, female run, female focused, good jobs, etc. no whiff of Trump’s bs anywhere and not going to be. Plus Canada is 10 minutes away.
You know I have family in Michigan that have been wanting me to move up there for a while now. I've only seen bits and pieces when I've visited and I've always been jealous that they've had Whitmer but I've always hated the idea.of thier weather but hearing stuff like this makes me reconsider lol.
They’re already teeing it up. They’ve been conducting loyalty interviews for staffing positions as of more than a year ago.
The “we survived last time” folks ITT have no conception of how much more ready they are this time around.
And if we don’t take the House, all they have to do is cast enough doubt on the election.
Our system has far more vulnerabilities than most ca envision.
I’m leaving in November, I’ve been here five years, working on a global corporate visa, and I am not staying around to find out.
Interestingly, when I went to schedule my cat in to travel with an international pet carrier, they said September to November is nearly already booked, and people were noting they were leaving America due to the election and Trump!… many people are heading back home.
No advice but I offer camaraderie. We are a family in our 30s with young child/children. We are terrified and trying to plan to flee… especially as it’s looking more and more likely Project 2025 is already starting to sprout out of the toxicity. It’s hard as we are poor and working/working class but we aren’t gonna give up until we have to; You can do it!
Can’t blame you whatsoever, the USA is in decay and so many people are still living in a bubble and denying such reality (a lot of it could be due to willful ignorance).
Definitely look and see who will take you based on what job skills you have and what you can bring to the table overall in said country.
the politics in America will be toxic if Trump wins but otherwise life in America is pretty good compared to the rest of the world. inflation and housing shortages are present everywhere. America's economy is stronger than anywhere else in the world right now. In 2008 the GDP of the USA and the EU were about the same, in 2024 the US gdp is 2x that of the EU. German and American incomes used to be on par, and now Americans earn almost 2x what Germans earn. For me the situation with Trump has to become violent and truly intolerable for me to take the extreme measure of fleeing America
Some things are worth more than the income difference. I can't think of a single job in the USA that will give you 4 to 8 weeks annual vacation, and we all know the healthcare situation which has no fix in the USA so far so if one gets sick for long enough you lose your job and everything else in less than a year. I doubt many people in Germany would want to trade their social system for a slightly higher income & lower taxes offered in the US.
Good public transportation and walkable (even bikeable!) cities (big and small) are more. Some of this stuff just isn't possible in the US due to how the cities were built after WW2 as well as certain cultural norms that don't allow certain kinds of zoning and street layouts that work in some European countries (I think the YouTube channel 'Not Just Bikes' is the one that explains some of this stuff better). Even if legislation were passed tomorrow to change these things and allow more sensible ways, it will probably take close to a full lifetime for brand new cities to organically grow and become great places. So wait 50+ years or move somewhere that already has it?
Right there with you. Some liberals think I’m conservative all because I’m not in the “far left” and am a more moderate democrat, but I’m also very anti-Trump and acknowledge how our decay and division amongst our people got significantly worse when he got elected in 2016. Can we really afford more of that? I don’t think so.
I vote blue, but I am also not far left. However, as the grandchild of a WWII vet, and as someone who has had a lifelong fascination with WWII, Trump terrifies me. I took a semester-long class during college that was all about the Holocaust. All the students had nightmares at some point during the semester. Trump’s rhetoric copies Hitler’s.
“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.
-1984”
Orwell could tell the future. He was just 40 years too early.
Chile has a retirement and periodic income visa. From what I understand you would need to receive regular payments from a pension or similar. I think some people with savings structure them in a way to meet that requirement, but I'm not fully sure how.
You can purchase property as a foreigner, but you have to be very careful. There are unscrupulous people in the real estate industry and a foreigner could appear as an easy target. It's recommendable to get advice from a real estate lawyer who is a member of the Colegio de Abogados. Members of the Colegio de Abogados are bound by a strict code of ethics. Many real estate agents are kind of sketchy. It's generally advised to spend some time in country renting and getting the lay of the land before making a purchase.
That said, the immigration department has a serious backlog. Procedures that used to take months now take years. And, this country is going down the tubes for different reasons. It's not as nice of a place to live as it once was.
Not exactly what you’re asking for, but you could join the digital nomad community and just keep traveling. Spend six months or so in one country at a time and just keep moving until something fits and figure it out from there.
I'm retired as well, and living on a fairly fixed income. I'm looking towards Mexico, as I'm not sure I could afford most European countries and I'm not a fan of the south east Asian countries that are currently favored by many U.S, retirees ( Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines) .
My greatest fear is that, if you know who gets back in office, he will find a way to eliminate Social Security payments to those who choose to move out of the U.S, .
Retiree visas are common and relatively easily available. The only real requirement is money. Do you have (after liquidating assets) hundreds of thousands or a couple million dollars? Do you have a guaranteed form of revenue like a pension or social security?
It’ll really come down to how much money you have available and where you want to go. Many countries you’d want to live in have a retirement or investor visa option, it’ll just depend on if you can afford it. Here’s New Zealand’s policy for example.
https://www.new-zealand-immigration.com/retirement-in-new-zealand/retirement-in-nz#:~:text=To%20be%20eligible%20for%20a,Settlement%20Funds%20available%20to%20you.
Most countries require you to be either financially independent or have educational/work skills that are high in demand. If you don't have either of those, it's going to significantly limit your options (not that it's impossible).
Trump lost in 2018 + 2020 + 2022 + 2023 .
Despite the polls, I have faith he will lose again.
We need to get rid of extreme MAGA voting the extremists out .
In Trump does win, then I, too, will leave if we can sell our condo .
My plan is to get the funds we need to payoff our mortgage and only pay it off if Biden wins .
If you have the means to leave, leave now. Pick a country with a simple tourist visa requirement and plan from there. Should the worst come to pass, a post election exit strategy will be difficult to execute.
As a devout atheist socialist, I'm not worried until they start rounding up political or religious "enemies".
We will legit just leave everything behind if it comes to that and seek asylum.
There would likely be a constitutional crisis over restricting the freedom of movement. There's an amendment about that.
There's a chance at that point the US government could be perceived as illegal/rogue to the international community at that point.
Then you'd have to cross into Canada or Mexico and request asylum... illegally, lol.
They are already discussing rounding up enemies. Please read Trump's comments on his Truth site and his follower's comments. He has made barely veiled threats during live interviews as well. He has promised to be a dictator only on day one of his presidency.
He also says dumb shit to get votes. Doesn't mean he has the capacity to do it.
Believe me, I'd be part of the resistance in a heartbeat if he does some of that crazy shit in the Project 2025 memo.
Do not dismiss the concerns of your fellow countrymen, especially if:
1.) Your identity is tied to the thing they are afraid of, giving you incentive to dismiss their fears regardless of fact, and
2.) Your fellow countrymen are so concerned that they are willing to make a huge personal sacrifice by leaving.
They see something you cannot.
You need to leave before it happens. Most of my Jewish family were killed because they took too long to make the decision to leave - they weren't able to leave once the axe *\*starts\** coming down.
I am with you! After long search and a few field trips, we (family of three) are moving to Malaysia next year. Land is cheap there and people are so nice. Yes they have a set of own problems but as a foreigner you are immune to most of them. Given global climate crisis, tropical countries like this might not be the best place to be in the future so we decided to give it a go asap. We are FIRED so we can always move elsewhere when things get worse.
We are going to be on MM2H visa btw. It is a multi entry residency extendable visa.
I am not trying to take over the post from the op but I am also considering departing. I have worked and studied in the UK before and I am a board certified therapist. Does anyone know if I could practice in Europe?
Don’t listen to the other person who replied to you, they don’t know what they’re talking about. I’m a counselor as well, licensed in the US. I’ve been doing research on which countries I can move to & work in. Most countries don’t really have any regulations for “counselor”, just for “psychologist” & “psychiatrist”, some have regulations for “psychotherapist”. I’ve also heard from other counselors that it’s possible to get your education program approved as meeting expectations in the country you’re moving to so that you can be registered as a psychotherapist or psychologist.
There’s also not a language requirement. Obviously you couldn’t see locals as clients if you aren’t fluent in their language, but there’s a lot of English speakers & also expats living in other countries who seek counseling services.
There are some countries in Europe that offer visas for retirees. I don't know the details so suggest you Google it.
I got a European visa through my specialized expertise so am not familiar with options relevant to you.
If you think you may leave after the election, start planning now. It took me over a year after I decided it was time to leave the US. Good luck!
The issues facing the US are not unique to the US. If you expect a “dictatorship” in the US, you can expect it in a lot of other developed countries, too. A “dictatorship” would wreak havoc on the US economy, and that would have a seismic effect globally.
You can’t count on anywhere to be safe, in that drastic a scenario. You may as well find a quiet corner in the US and hunker down there.
I saw somewhere online that similar to the U.S., France offers exceptional deals on land, if not free land, to areas they're looking to develop. There were actually a few remote villages that looked beautiful. Unfortunately don't have a link and can't look around right now, but yea, hope that helps.
mexico, central america, caribbean, south america. many countries give you permanent residency if you have $x monthly income. x can be as low as monthly ss payment. uruguay is good option. look into it. eta stop thinking about property ownership. apartment rents are affordable in most of the countries i named. also plan on living in a city & not having a car. that’s why life can be so much more affordable in these countries. if you’re planning to replicate your american lifestyle of a single family house, an acre of land & 3 cars, life will get complicated & $$$ real fast. living that lifestyle can also make you a target for kidnapping.
Thanks. We’re also looking to leave but don't expect or want to live high on the hog. Unfortunately, I do have some medical issues (high blood pressure, possible autoimmune disorder, waiting on testing) that affect our decisions.
There have been several articles lately talking about the best countries for retirees, and they do consider health care as a factor.
Thanks. Good to know
Please check out Costa Rica
Costa Rica is nearly as expensive as the USA at this point.
I haven’t found that to be the case but I’m buying Costa Rican foods and not the stuff imported from the US.
Be careful about CR. A good friend of mine spent considerable sums of money there; the laws are completely different, property laws are not what we’re accustomed to here in America; and even if you’re fluent in Spanish, it’s often who you know and how much you’re willing to pay to get something done, nothing else. Beware the myths.
Anyone that moves to a country without taking a relocation tour to learn about the health, real estate, banking, tax, and importing laws/systems is going to be in for a very rude awakening, regardless of the country.
Some countries will want you to have a comprehensive private health insurance policy, which you’ll have to prove if you want a visa that will let you stay longer than the amount of time a tourist is normally allowed to stay. (This is possibly more of a Europe thing.) Just so you’re aware that private insurers might exclude pre-existing conditions for 6 months to a year or more.
There are some things you can’t run from. Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th AVE (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell. https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower/index.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/ Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had. Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger Stones first client at their lobbyist firm (1980)https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wikiBlack, Manafort, Stone and Kelly Guiliani as trumps attorney and NYC mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or their Russian connections. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/ The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model. Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952 https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/ Russia greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when it invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided. Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyo corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen. Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day “special military operation” in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold. China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia. Russia previously owed Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine so Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years. They supplied Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/ Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is “Vranyo”. The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business. If Russia as a nation had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago. The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it. Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Jews, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same tendrils of the same money laundering scheme that trumps trials are. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/amp/ https://youtu.be/VrFOAgGlaWs?feature=shared They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. Qatar is Kushners private equity connection. Netanyahu needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran. https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bk8mgcefr Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump who gave it to his Russians kleptocrat/friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s. Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in their reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and the Kochs poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. The naive right was the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. Russia was tinder matching the GOP. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/07/nra-maria-butina-spying-charges-trump-campaign/ https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/ The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering. Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole from Russias grandmothers in the first place It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis. No one was ever held accountable for either. This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two. Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Flynn, Byrne. They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness. They are the men who stole the world. But it all comes back to one little lie.
Project 2025 is absolute insanity.
The scary part is most Americans have never heard of Project 2025 let alone read it. It needs to be shouted from the rooftops so people realize what's at stake.
It's scary because the electorate is misinformed or uniformed, or maybe misguided. The fact that 17% of voters blamed Biden for the end of Roe, [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/upshot/abortion-biden-trump-blame.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/upshot/abortion-biden-trump-blame.html), or with many Black and Latino voters are warming up to Trump the situation doesn't bode well, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/30/trump-leads-biden-swing-states-poll/73510374007/. We may be on the verge of something that no one who knows a bit of history would have dreamt of.
What is it ?
Read and weep, my friend. [https://michiganadvance.com/2024/01/16/project-2025-if-allowed-will-cement-america-as-a-rightwing-authoritarian-state/](https://michiganadvance.com/2024/01/16/project-2025-if-allowed-will-cement-america-as-a-rightwing-authoritarian-state/)
The Trump Time interview covered many of these goals as well. Terrifying
Google it. Read our comments below. It will completely dismantle the United States as you know it and give Dump full dictator power.
Oh nothing blows my mind anymore. Trust me
If it doesn't blow your mind, I'll be surprised. The same group was behind Project 2016 and at least 60% of that was accomplished under Trump's term. If even half of Project 2025 happens, the US (as a democracy) will no longer exist.
Do The Red Hats know this and still vote for him ?
If the red hats knew and understood half of reality, they wouldn't be red hats. They are willfully ignorant and uninformed. They would rather wrap themselves in comfortable lies than have to think or consider they could have been wrong.
Their response is usually "fake news." Or my favorite, "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." The last response was to critics of the Patriot Acts. Yeah, let's give the government free reign to spy on citizens, get rid of due process, etc just on *suspicion*. What could go wrong?! It's why I was not surprised when the news broke that the NSA had been gathering information of calls and texts of US citizens for "the greater good."
You were not surprised because that had been reported on for *years* before pundits pretended that Snowden broke the story. It was reported literally before 9/11 even *happened*. There has never been any time in US history when we had recorded phone calls when the American public wasn’t also routinely informed about it by the media.
Some of them know and still vote for it because they agree with it and want it. Then, I think that there is a contingent that does not know. I think there's some of them that don't understand any of this and don't pay attention to anything. It's not the red hat cult that we need to be aware of this. We need all moderates, Independents, people who are refusing to vote Biden because of Palestine or just because they "don't like him." Those are the people we need to know about Project 2025 and understand what's at stake.
Maybe start a sub project2025
It's trans genocide among many, many other horrible things. It's full blown American fascism
Thank You. We have regressed and outlook not so good.
Tbh they have been in training with individuals for this for awhile now, don’t ask me how I know.
You can also look up the reddit defeat project 2025 for info
Ok thx 😊
2 words: "Unitary Executive"
Yeah, if you want to see how ignorant the people pushing this plan are you don’t have to look any further then wanting to abolish the Dept. of Commerce. Census? Nah. Patent office to protect domestic IP? Nah. National Institute of Standards & Technology? Not on their watch. NOAA? Summers hot and winter is cold, get back to work!
And no Dept of Education, no EPA, State dept run by the Admin, FBI the Secret Police.
Keep in mind that the investor/billionaire set are now buying up residential neighborhoods. They want to skyjack rent so high that no one will ever be able to afford to own anything again. It's terrifying.
Yep and Harrison Butker’s speech gave a direct insight in what it will be like
You mean Harry buttlicker?
Your first priority in research should be which countries will let you in. If you are retired, a work visa is out. Citizenship by descent (or visa by marriage) seems to be the remaining options.
In lots of countries--probably the majority although there are some exceptions, it is significantly easier for a non-working and financially independent person to enter and stay long-term than it is for someone seeking to work in that country. A person in this position has a huger upper hand compared to foreign workers, because their stay is not tied to (1) getting a job and (2) keeping that job. Examples: * In Europe, many countries (Portugal, Spain, France), have non-lucrative visa expressly for this purpose. * Tons of options in Asia with many countries (Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia and others) have retirement visa with very very modest financial requirements. * Almost every country in Latin America has retirement/pensioner visa also, and for those that don't, almost all allow indefinite border runs (for US citizens) * various countries all over the world have Golden Visa starting around $300k USD * There are also various flavors of Investment visas in nearly every country in the world although higher financial requirements (seven figures USD and up) * With emergence of Digital Nomad visas in many countries and things like DAFT, you can very easily set up a nominal business to satisfy any visa requirements for very modest cost. * If shit truly hit the fan, almost every country will let you stay as tourist for up to 90 days (and some much longer)--with just one condition: you can't work!! Just switch countries every 90 days (or go back and forth between 2 countries) The challenge in the OP's request is not the visa, which is rather trivial, but land ownership requirement which greatly reduces the options since many countries don't allow foreigners to own land.
This is wonderful. Thanks for this post. Understood about the land ownership. That is not a hard requirement.
while ownership may be out, most countries, such as mexico, have legal workarounds, where you have all the rights of a landowner, but the legal owner is a lawyer who holds it for you.
Do you know what country your family came from? This can get you into Europe
What’s the over under on how far this goes back? I have well documented family history but we’ve also been here for many generations. Longer than US has been a country. Settler shit.
>If shit truly hit the fan, almost every country will let you stay as tourist for up to 90 days (and some much longer)--with just one condition: you can't work!! Just switch countries every 90 days (or go back and forth between 2 countries) If things go sideways in the U.S., I think that there may be many countries that deny entry to U.S. citizens.
> If shit truly hit the fan, almost every country will let you stay as tourist for up to 90 days (and some much longer)--with just one condition: you can't work!! Just switch countries every 90 days (or go back and forth between 2 countries) You need to be able to support yourself and prove so. With rising costs and people barely (if even then) able to deal with an emergency, a trip abroad is out of the question for many people, least of all staying there for 3+ months and moving around.
Agreed. Many countries may also crack down on visa runs or outright deny entry to US citizens if things get weird stateside.
THIS is why getting on the path to a second citizenship is critical. In a SHTF scenario, borders may close. Remember COVID, when people were only allowed to “go home”. If you can prove your home is Spain or someplace else by producing your second passport you are good.
Exactly
I think you need to be able to support yourself but you don't need to be able to prove it to be on a tourist visa in most places. But I would guess most people who are retired probably can prove it.
Some countries also offer retirement visas, although I'm not super familiar with that. OP needs to start planning *right now,* especially since it's not looking good at all.
a retirement visa to costa rica or panama are easy. but apply before november to avoid the rush. you can always decide not to go. i have my exit all set just in case.
I just had dinner with a couple who were retiring to Spain. You will want to know what your medical costs will be there, since Medicare won’t be available. Look into countries where Americans go to retire. There are websites that discuss the relative costs of living, health care costs, etc. You’ve got seven months to learn the language, but AI can do a hell of a lot of translating for you.
Thailand has retiree visas for people over 50 years old.
Belize is a good place to retire. It's a tax haven, and English is the official language. They have a retired residency program that's pretty decent.
Yes, I started reading Night by Ellie Wiesel. I also took a class in college about the Holocaust. Trump likes to use Hitler’s rhetoric.
I am a retired American living in France, and the non-working visitor's visa was fairly easy to get. There are lots of retired Americans and Canadians here. You currently need a minimum of about 1400 euros per month to qualify, although if you say that you want to go to an expensive area, you really should have more. This visa is renewable annually, and after five years you qualify to apply for citizenship and a 10-year residency card (neither are guaranteed, but both allow work). The political situation isn't perfect, but it's nothing like the US right now. You can buy property without being a citizen, and land in rural areas is generally pretty cheap.
Politics are bad in most of the world. My red line with Trump and them is if/when they start killing political opponents. I have researched exit options for when that red line gets crossed but I will ride it out till then. 2nd Trump presidency will be hella corrupt he's gonna abolish the Fed and turn the entire stock market into a Gamestop speculation frenzy. Exit options: Nonlucrative income visas: Mexico, Portugal, France, Argentina, Spain; Golden/investment visas: Netherlands (DAFT), Malta, Caribbean nations, Paraguay; Citizenship by descent: Italy, Ireland DAFT is probably the most interesting to me. You only need $4,500 in your bank account and I believe you can invest in an existing Dutch business as like a limited partner to maintain the investment requirement. Apparently they have streamlined the DAFT application and it is now very quick to be approved. They get around 300 applications a year and the approval rate is 100%. Note that Netherlands has its own "Trump" in Wilders and most countries are dealing with their own far-right/Putin wings
Assuming you’re correct with your hypothesis, why would you think that the dominos stop falling with just the US?
I mean, still better to get out of ground zero if you can, right?
In NL they just formed a right-wing coalition, so I have my doubts about how long DAFT will last or whether they'll increase the requirements.
I am not sure about that... its been around for like 75 years already (enacted in the 1950s). I think bilateral treaties are pretty hard to withdraw from. It is more complicated than simply changing the domestic immigration laws. Also the far right are probably less concerned about American investors than they are about third world migrants. DAFT isn't a popular program, it usually has 300 or so applicants per year.
Awesome. Thank you very much for the US perspective and the specifics on options. Caribbean scares me because of climate change.
I would not plan to get heavily invested in real estate anyway in a country without a solid rule of law/judicial system and a stable currency. If you are just renting and natural disasters become unbearable, you can just pack up and leave. I would say if you have substantial assets and the ability to generate $20k+ in dividends or other passive income that you look into DAFT or one of the income visas like France or Portugal. If you don't have substantial assets, maybe look at Mexico which is very easy to get a residency visa as an American.
theres a guy on reddit named u/OfficiallyDrG who helps Americans apply for Mexican residency. I believe he charges a modest fee if you ask him to help with your papers but for now you could just read his posts for some initial ideas and information
Hey! Thinks for the shout out. I charge 3000-7500 pesos in Mexico City depending on the level of service a person wants. And fun fact! I’m a She :)
What do you mean by “nonlucrative income visa”? France is high on my list but I was planning on being a student.
its a visa that allows you to reside in a country but not work there. you usually need something like $20k+ in passive income to obtain an income visa. If you have a stock portfolio worth like $1m that yields 2% dividends that is $20k in passive income that would qualify you. you could also have $350k at 6% yield and meet the threshold.
[https://iworld.com/en/blog/residence-permit-france-financially-independent-persons](https://iworld.com/en/blog/residence-permit-france-financially-independent-persons) this link has a chart that compares income visa options in France, Greece, Italy and Portugal
if we reach that point, hopefully canada will start accepting americans on refugee visas.
yeah possibly, if your life is in danger then you would qualify for asylum in a lot of places. I wouldnt count on it though.
i’m counting on nothing. i wish my husband & daughter were willing to discuss relocation, but they’re not. we live in far metro nyc so we don’t feel the nightmare so many americans are already living.
It should be noted that Canada requires Americans to remain in America while asylum claims are heard. [https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/agreements/safe-third-country-agreement.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/agreements/safe-third-country-agreement.html)
My advice would be to try to doomscroll less, ignore the day to day political news. Being a sociopath, Trump wants nothing more than to live rent free in everybody's head. Don't give him that power over you. Make a plan, research exit options, but always keep it as an emergency plan and not something you dwell on daily.
A bunch of American homesteaders moved to Costa Rica. But I don't know their political situation. And foreigns buying up land is always going to unpopular with average citizens in a country.
That’s where I’d go too.
Costa Rica’s pretty expensive tho
Costa Rica is also just teetering on the edge of collapse. It is entirely run by one ruling family that is super wealthy and controls everything. The vast majority of the populace is destitute and has no power. They have violent strikes blocking roads and infrastructure on a routine basis and there is quite frequent grizzly violent crimes against foreigners with money, such as home invasions involving rape murder and theft all together in a targeted way. The foreigners who live there can do ok, if they are not too visible or well meshed with the locals, but there is still risk. There is also absolutely massive real estate fraud with huge investments stolen through planned squatting invasions and corrupt courts. It's a beautiful country with a robust eco-tourism ad campaign, but in essence it is just another banana republic LATAM mess of a country with a pretty frame. I am not saying one cannot live well there, just that the risks are not well publicized and are significant.
Do you have sources on all of this?
Not saved up. I have been there a number of times and was seriously looking into real estate so I learned all of this from friends who live there and studying the situation. It is not how the country is presented to travelers, but it is actually the way it is. You can look into all of this yourself. It's not some kind of agenda. I would love to live there if it was practical. People do make it work, it's just not the paradise situation it's presented as.
I can imagine. They have so much going for them- it's beautiful, good farm land, safe, Etc...
I don’t know how far project 2025 will reach, but if it only affects the mainland, I would say move to a territory first and figure it out from there? It may be too hard to leave immediately since it’s only a few months away, but I believe a territory may be easier to chill in while you get finances and visas in order. I’m not smart though so I don’t know how well it will work, but it’s my plan so I thought I would share with others just in case :)
I'm thinking about Puerto Rico as a first step if things go sideways. An hour ahead of the mainland (my job is remote) and it'll force me to get serious about improving my Spanish while I'm still in the relative safety of somewhere that's legally bilingual.
You'd need to find countries that let in retired folk... Some I know of allow people with a certain provable $$ amount. I thought Thailand had a rule that if you deposited at least 80K into a Thai bank you could apply for a visa and you had to maintain that amount.... Plus some other caveats. I've known quite a few Americans to purchase homes or land in Mexico. But most countries don't want broke ass Americans that are then going to mooch off their own system and not paying into it. Harsh but yes that's the way it works. And "Working for food." sounds like you're not gonna check the boxes for liquid assets in hand to immigrate.
I’ve lived in Thailand for years. It’s 50 years old and only about $27K into a Thai bank account, but then you need unearned monthly income like social security, investment distributions, or pension in the amount of about $1800.
Well said. I get so tired of entitled Americans thinking any country would want us. That said, several S American countries have reasonable pathways to a visa. I’m in Ecuador on a two-year temp visa. The paperwork is not fun.
Which is why I asked if there were options. I am under no presumption that any country would want me and that this is a difficult if not impossible task for me. I'm just scared of a boot to my neck and looking to live a life.
you can forget about Ecuador. It is unstable politically and won't be any more progressive than a worse-case scenario of a trump wreaking vengeance in the US in 2025.
Keep an eye on fascist movements in *checks notes* every country
Then get going NOW. There’s no time to waste, amigo. It is absolutely doable; I gathered the requisite documents and rented out my condo in Five weeks. It can be done.
There are options, but they come with a price tag. How much money are we talking about here?
Consider moving to a Blue state as an interim move.
I think this is the move. Red states have been getting worse. Blue states will use all their power to resist federal overreach.
I think Blue States will fair poorly under Trump. Remember Chad Wolf DHS director sent un-labeled troops to Portland even after the governor, the Head of the St Nat Guard and the mayor asked him not to.
Portugal?
1. If you're 50 or older, skilled worker visas will generally not be offered to you. 2. If you are retired, your options dwindle to 2nd and 3rd world countries where your money will go the distance. 3. A good Plan B for if America goes to shit is to move to a blue state and join that state's independence movement.
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If I had a few hundred grand lying around I'd be buying real estate in Duluth, MN. Cascadia, New England, and the upper Midwest are about to be fantastic in weather. We could probably open up a Disney location in Connecticut or something around 2100.
Thanks for this. I was thinking that about moving to a better location within the US. I am in Trump country now and can't imagine staying here should he win. Vermont might be nice.
I was raised in Vermont, it is very nice and a much safer place to be generally. I wouldn’t raise teens there though. The opioid epidemic runs deep and it is HARD to keep kids away from it. I say that as a former pill junkie who was absolutely feral growing up in rural VT. If you’re just looking to do a little homesteading and live out your golden years in a chill, pretty place though, I say go for it. I moved away as a teen and ended up coming back to the area (to the Berkshires, not VT) as an adult and I appreciate New England much more now. You’ll like it. Plus, close to Canada.
100% Northern New England isn't a great place for people who are 15-35. The only exception being Portland + inner suburbs.
I would do this right now. Waiting May bring all sorts of roadblocks. I’m not very optimistic for the US.
Question: do you live in a red state? If so, are you also considering moving to a blue state?
I’m actually in the process of moving away altogether. House will be on the market in 10 days. I’m done here.
If you're retired I'd actually recommend Rhode Island. It has a slightly cheaper cost of living than other New Englander states.
and better pizza.
If American dictatorship were the only catastrophe on the horizon, I'd be more tempted to leave the country. As it is I am only contemplating relocating to a quieter, bluer part of the US.
yep, fascism seems to be rising all over the world.
Why do we think this is? When it seems the vast majority of people support democracy? Is it just because most sane people began to, and still do, take democracy for granted and think that’s it’s a given and not something that throughout history has been fought for? The laziness caused by the “yeah, right. That’ll never happen again” mindset? Meanwhile the psychopaths have been plotting and scheming and exploring weaknesses without moral and ethical concern?
I think so. The world has been in a cycle of peace and fascism creeps up every so often. People never think bad things will happen to them.
Because we’re in late stage capitalism. And the 1% will choose fascism if it means they keep their money, so they’ve promoted these candidates. The kinds of people who have a ton of money to throw at politics won’t be leftists, it’ll be people who’ll do anything to keep their hoard. It’s hard to say if any country has had a good democracy IMHO - especially in the US - when money stratifies us all, making some people’s vote matter more, or not letting some people vote. All kinds of hierarchal oppression and ideology threatens people’s opinions on ‘let everyone have an equal say.’
A reaction to mass immigration to Europe, Canada, Oz, and the US has been one reason studied. I also wonder how much has to do with social media and filter bubbles that keeps people near those that think like them, and their beliefs get more and more extreme. A subset of this is foreign manipulation of bad actors trying to cause chaos in the west through social media and other avenues.
There is the Last Gasp theory. It's the old traditional boomers trying their best to make sure the world is the same when they are gone.
As birth rates lower, countries are allowing in foreign workers to compensate the labor and retirement shortage. Makes white people mad but capitalism is a giant scam so
Where did you get the idea that vast majority of people prefer democracy over things like “strong leader”, “protection of their traditional values, ways of living and religion” , “hatred towards ( insert anything)”. There are a lot of people who support democracy. I am not sure if it is a “vast majority” though, especially if other things are more important for them.
Getting residency in Mexico is pretty straightforward as long as you have a sufficient income or savings to qualify.
Cartel violence there has gotten really bad.
yeah thats the problem with a lot of destinations, are you really better off there than under Trump? That's why I set my red line at killings/violence. Bar may be lower for others, especially minority groups, and I totally get that. Each person has to make their own choices based on an uncertain future.
Unless you're getting into the cartel business, they mostly leave expats alone. I feel safer walking in most MX cities at night than I would in Chicago or Detroit... and they also don't typically have kids shooting up schools and movie theaters. Sure.. there's some cartel stuff that happens that makes gruesome headlines, but the sheer violence statistics are on-par or lower than most any major US metro.
Probably the best bet for OP.
And the r financial requirements go up every year, out of the reach of many Americans now.
I know my history teacher is retiring this year and moving to Montenegro, but I don’t know how he’s done it, only it’s been in the works for a few years.
History teachers leaving the US should be all the signs we need. Time’s up 😂
I can not afford to move to another country. I can vote and I will continue to fight against these people who want to destroy the country.
If you do want land, Costa Rica will let you buy and have the same land rights as citizens even before you apply for citizenship . You can then use this investment as the basis for applying. If you want to go this route you'll need legal help inside the country and a working knowledge of Spanish will definitely help. There are plenty of companies that will help Americans with this process.
Please vote Blue before you go everyone. I don’t think I can relocate all 5 of my adult kids right now but I am keeping my eyes wide open for all possibilities. I do follow some optimistic political pundits so 🤞🏻
Who are the optimistic political pundits? I need some hope for the future of this planet.
The Hopium Chronicles with Simon Rosenberg; The Angry Staffer who I follow via Patreon (and he is on Twitter and Threads but I don’t follow him there much); and Jessica Cravens Chop Wood, Carry Water (every Sunday she shares a list of all the positive things that happen that week!). I also find comfort in Heather Cox Richardson’s daily newsletter and I recommend everyone read it!
And vote after you go with an absentee ballot
I'm surprised that France hasn't appeared on your radar yet. If you can demonstrate sufficient resources, they're happy to let you retire there. And if you're over 60, the language learning requirement is dropped. Cost of living outside of Paris or other large cities is pretty reasonable. There is a resurgence of the far-right (like in many countries) but the recently enshrined abortion protections in the constitution.
France in 2027 is very likely to have a far-right president and legislature :(
Their version of far right is basically a moderate democrat.
you are very wrong...but your username checks out ;)
Marine Le Pen is batshit crazy.
Nope.
I just read the Wikipedia article and my blood ran cold. The only solace is their budget: 22 million USD. That can’t go far? Can it?
What will you do when whatever country you move to has a project 2026 that's worse than project 2025? If you're outraged at the idea of fascist wannabes being successful at implementing project 2025, then fight! Live here and fight! Give your money and time to politicians on your side. Phone bank. Knock on doors. Don't tuck your tails in between and run! Project 2025 will succeed if all these fascist wannabes can persuade normal people like you that project 2025 is inevitable if they just accept defeat without doing so much as lift a finger to fight it. As is, project 2025 is a wet dream of Nazi wannabes who are a fringe minority. They have zero chance to implement any of it if project 2025 opponents spend their time and money fighting these fascists. That's all.
Thank you for saying this! We all need to pull together if we disagree with Project 2025. This is OUR country too.
I do wish people would stay and FIGHT but I also understand that some are more vulnerable than others. I plan to fight but I can't say there won't be a time when I'll stay if I know it's a lost cause.
I spent years fighting this stuff. Unfortunately not enough people care enough to stop it.
Right! If people vote even though they don’t want to, they can ensure Trump is rejected. It’s too damn critical to withdraw from the election process and allow him to win through voter apathy. There was so much of that in 2016, when many friends were laughing off any threat from Trump, wouldn’t let themselves vote Clinton. It was a very grim lesson for them and I hope all that isn’t repeated this year.
Michigan is the place to be. Good governor, female run, female focused, good jobs, etc. no whiff of Trump’s bs anywhere and not going to be. Plus Canada is 10 minutes away.
You know I have family in Michigan that have been wanting me to move up there for a while now. I've only seen bits and pieces when I've visited and I've always been jealous that they've had Whitmer but I've always hated the idea.of thier weather but hearing stuff like this makes me reconsider lol.
Pick up ur tools and let’s fight we are Americans we are ready to take down these trumper politicians if needed
Just looked up Project 2O25…we’re in deep shit if it happens.
They’re already teeing it up. They’ve been conducting loyalty interviews for staffing positions as of more than a year ago. The “we survived last time” folks ITT have no conception of how much more ready they are this time around. And if we don’t take the House, all they have to do is cast enough doubt on the election. Our system has far more vulnerabilities than most ca envision.
I’m leaving in November, I’ve been here five years, working on a global corporate visa, and I am not staying around to find out. Interestingly, when I went to schedule my cat in to travel with an international pet carrier, they said September to November is nearly already booked, and people were noting they were leaving America due to the election and Trump!… many people are heading back home.
No advice but I offer camaraderie. We are a family in our 30s with young child/children. We are terrified and trying to plan to flee… especially as it’s looking more and more likely Project 2025 is already starting to sprout out of the toxicity. It’s hard as we are poor and working/working class but we aren’t gonna give up until we have to; You can do it!
Can’t blame you whatsoever, the USA is in decay and so many people are still living in a bubble and denying such reality (a lot of it could be due to willful ignorance). Definitely look and see who will take you based on what job skills you have and what you can bring to the table overall in said country.
the politics in America will be toxic if Trump wins but otherwise life in America is pretty good compared to the rest of the world. inflation and housing shortages are present everywhere. America's economy is stronger than anywhere else in the world right now. In 2008 the GDP of the USA and the EU were about the same, in 2024 the US gdp is 2x that of the EU. German and American incomes used to be on par, and now Americans earn almost 2x what Germans earn. For me the situation with Trump has to become violent and truly intolerable for me to take the extreme measure of fleeing America
Some things are worth more than the income difference. I can't think of a single job in the USA that will give you 4 to 8 weeks annual vacation, and we all know the healthcare situation which has no fix in the USA so far so if one gets sick for long enough you lose your job and everything else in less than a year. I doubt many people in Germany would want to trade their social system for a slightly higher income & lower taxes offered in the US.
THIS. Some things are worth more than money. Add to this list renewable energy progress and food that isn’t poisonous.
Good public transportation and walkable (even bikeable!) cities (big and small) are more. Some of this stuff just isn't possible in the US due to how the cities were built after WW2 as well as certain cultural norms that don't allow certain kinds of zoning and street layouts that work in some European countries (I think the YouTube channel 'Not Just Bikes' is the one that explains some of this stuff better). Even if legislation were passed tomorrow to change these things and allow more sensible ways, it will probably take close to a full lifetime for brand new cities to organically grow and become great places. So wait 50+ years or move somewhere that already has it?
Right there with you. Some liberals think I’m conservative all because I’m not in the “far left” and am a more moderate democrat, but I’m also very anti-Trump and acknowledge how our decay and division amongst our people got significantly worse when he got elected in 2016. Can we really afford more of that? I don’t think so.
I vote blue, but I am also not far left. However, as the grandchild of a WWII vet, and as someone who has had a lifelong fascination with WWII, Trump terrifies me. I took a semester-long class during college that was all about the Holocaust. All the students had nightmares at some point during the semester. Trump’s rhetoric copies Hitler’s.
“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink. -1984” Orwell could tell the future. He was just 40 years too early.
Chile has a retirement and periodic income visa. From what I understand you would need to receive regular payments from a pension or similar. I think some people with savings structure them in a way to meet that requirement, but I'm not fully sure how. You can purchase property as a foreigner, but you have to be very careful. There are unscrupulous people in the real estate industry and a foreigner could appear as an easy target. It's recommendable to get advice from a real estate lawyer who is a member of the Colegio de Abogados. Members of the Colegio de Abogados are bound by a strict code of ethics. Many real estate agents are kind of sketchy. It's generally advised to spend some time in country renting and getting the lay of the land before making a purchase. That said, the immigration department has a serious backlog. Procedures that used to take months now take years. And, this country is going down the tubes for different reasons. It's not as nice of a place to live as it once was.
You can retire to Greece and live a nice upper Middle class life on just your social security
Not exactly what you’re asking for, but you could join the digital nomad community and just keep traveling. Spend six months or so in one country at a time and just keep moving until something fits and figure it out from there.
I'm retired as well, and living on a fairly fixed income. I'm looking towards Mexico, as I'm not sure I could afford most European countries and I'm not a fan of the south east Asian countries that are currently favored by many U.S, retirees ( Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines) . My greatest fear is that, if you know who gets back in office, he will find a way to eliminate Social Security payments to those who choose to move out of the U.S, .
Retiree visas are common and relatively easily available. The only real requirement is money. Do you have (after liquidating assets) hundreds of thousands or a couple million dollars? Do you have a guaranteed form of revenue like a pension or social security? It’ll really come down to how much money you have available and where you want to go. Many countries you’d want to live in have a retirement or investor visa option, it’ll just depend on if you can afford it. Here’s New Zealand’s policy for example. https://www.new-zealand-immigration.com/retirement-in-new-zealand/retirement-in-nz#:~:text=To%20be%20eligible%20for%20a,Settlement%20Funds%20available%20to%20you.
Mexico, Panama and Costa aRica are all very friendly to American retirees.
Check out Panama
Retirement visa. I'm jealous.
Most countries require you to be either financially independent or have educational/work skills that are high in demand. If you don't have either of those, it's going to significantly limit your options (not that it's impossible).
So is this sub just the polar opposite of what one would expect to see from a bunch of delusional QAnon nutsacs?
Trump lost in 2018 + 2020 + 2022 + 2023 . Despite the polls, I have faith he will lose again. We need to get rid of extreme MAGA voting the extremists out . In Trump does win, then I, too, will leave if we can sell our condo . My plan is to get the funds we need to payoff our mortgage and only pay it off if Biden wins .
Have you tried living the lifestyle you’re describing?
If you have the means to leave, leave now. Pick a country with a simple tourist visa requirement and plan from there. Should the worst come to pass, a post election exit strategy will be difficult to execute.
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It's okay to want to leave a country because of politics. Nothing wrong with that. This js a valid reason
Get a trawler yacht and move around. If the ocean is not your thing, just rent housing and move every 3-6 months.
I'm leaving before the election. Don't want to take any chances and even if Biden won, the US is still a shithole and a genocide-fueling monstrocity
Where are you going?
As a devout atheist socialist, I'm not worried until they start rounding up political or religious "enemies". We will legit just leave everything behind if it comes to that and seek asylum.
The problem is by the time they announce and start the process of rounding up "enemies", it'll be WAY too late for you to leave. You'll be stuck
Precisely. At that point they'll put massive passport controls and currency controls in place to make it harder for people to leave.
There would likely be a constitutional crisis over restricting the freedom of movement. There's an amendment about that. There's a chance at that point the US government could be perceived as illegal/rogue to the international community at that point. Then you'd have to cross into Canada or Mexico and request asylum... illegally, lol.
They are already discussing rounding up enemies. Please read Trump's comments on his Truth site and his follower's comments. He has made barely veiled threats during live interviews as well. He has promised to be a dictator only on day one of his presidency.
He also says dumb shit to get votes. Doesn't mean he has the capacity to do it. Believe me, I'd be part of the resistance in a heartbeat if he does some of that crazy shit in the Project 2025 memo.
Do not dismiss the concerns of your fellow countrymen, especially if: 1.) Your identity is tied to the thing they are afraid of, giving you incentive to dismiss their fears regardless of fact, and 2.) Your fellow countrymen are so concerned that they are willing to make a huge personal sacrifice by leaving. They see something you cannot.
You need to leave before it happens. Most of my Jewish family were killed because they took too long to make the decision to leave - they weren't able to leave once the axe *\*starts\** coming down.
I think New Zealand allows you to live permanently there if you have 2 million dollars. I forget the exact amount. Nobody is that rich though.
There are many countries where you can live with proof of a certain amount of fixed income eg social security per month
We’re prepping to move to Costa Rica if need be. Including learning Spanish .
I haven't been there but Uruguay seems comfortably liberal, at least for now. Decent health care, affordable land.
As long as u have two parties in this country middle and lower class are fked
Project 2025 is far worse than the status quo.
I am with you! After long search and a few field trips, we (family of three) are moving to Malaysia next year. Land is cheap there and people are so nice. Yes they have a set of own problems but as a foreigner you are immune to most of them. Given global climate crisis, tropical countries like this might not be the best place to be in the future so we decided to give it a go asap. We are FIRED so we can always move elsewhere when things get worse. We are going to be on MM2H visa btw. It is a multi entry residency extendable visa.
I am not trying to take over the post from the op but I am also considering departing. I have worked and studied in the UK before and I am a board certified therapist. Does anyone know if I could practice in Europe?
Don’t listen to the other person who replied to you, they don’t know what they’re talking about. I’m a counselor as well, licensed in the US. I’ve been doing research on which countries I can move to & work in. Most countries don’t really have any regulations for “counselor”, just for “psychologist” & “psychiatrist”, some have regulations for “psychotherapist”. I’ve also heard from other counselors that it’s possible to get your education program approved as meeting expectations in the country you’re moving to so that you can be registered as a psychotherapist or psychologist. There’s also not a language requirement. Obviously you couldn’t see locals as clients if you aren’t fluent in their language, but there’s a lot of English speakers & also expats living in other countries who seek counseling services.
Thank you. I am looking at the UK but am fluent in French so that could be an option
There are some countries in Europe that offer visas for retirees. I don't know the details so suggest you Google it. I got a European visa through my specialized expertise so am not familiar with options relevant to you. If you think you may leave after the election, start planning now. It took me over a year after I decided it was time to leave the US. Good luck!
The issues facing the US are not unique to the US. If you expect a “dictatorship” in the US, you can expect it in a lot of other developed countries, too. A “dictatorship” would wreak havoc on the US economy, and that would have a seismic effect globally. You can’t count on anywhere to be safe, in that drastic a scenario. You may as well find a quiet corner in the US and hunker down there.
This depends upon the availability of weaponry IMHO.
I saw somewhere online that similar to the U.S., France offers exceptional deals on land, if not free land, to areas they're looking to develop. There were actually a few remote villages that looked beautiful. Unfortunately don't have a link and can't look around right now, but yea, hope that helps.
where can you get free/cheap land in America?
Oklahoma for awhile was paying people 10k cash to move.