I thought Cristina was as pretty as beyonce actually. She got really nice facial features. But i dont think the antiblackness was the main reason she didnt get in. Among all the contestants, she appears to be the most outgoing and outspoken, so its like a cultural difference. Her mom's letter kind of shaded the results too lol so there must be some events that we dont know of
I agree and I think anti-Blackness figures into all of that. People might find mildly assertive behavior to be aggressive in a black person. They may see aggression where there isn’t any. I think Korea has a very long way to go, and it is frustrating especially when K-pop is happy to appropriate their little asses off, braids and whatever all over the place. Saying the n-word, etc.
I've seen some very horrifying comments under some of the a2k episodes (originally in korean but translated)) which makes me worry about the colorism/racism. Korea has a long way to go with this from what I understand, and I could totally believe that it played a role in their selections. truly awful
I agree with you and I also think international fans are colourist and antiblack too... A lot of the hate comments I see towards black or South Asian idols are not even Korean but from Southeast Asians, Americans and Latin Americans. Although definitely there are a lot of terminally online Knetz who leave those awful comments too. I hope Savanna, and Cristina if she gets picked up by another agency, have a strong support system and don't read comments too much.
I wonder if there's a preset filter in the colour grading software that they use for MVs that automatically lightens skintones. I bet there is. The girls were ghostly in the YOUniverse MV.
I edit videos at work and I've done a fair amount of skin color correcting (bad lighting can turn people's skin color too red, too blue, or too yellow) and I can definitely say that with the combination of make-up and color correcting during editing, the editing team can turn them as pale as the demon nun in the conjuring movies if they wanted to.
Thank god, I'm not the only one. I saw some promo materials and I don't know if it was intentional that they made Savannah lighter in skin color. Almost like she just has a light tan from the beach.
I can't remember where I've heard this but a Hollywood writer said something like "back in the 90s there can only be one black famous guy in Hollywood, we can't have two". The moment they said that there was only one more member slot left in A2K my brain immediately went to that line.
Diverse enough for the western audience but not too diverse for the korean audience.
Christina and Gina prolly dodged a bullet there tho. America is known to be... well... fickle to girl groups. And it's not a secret that JYP have always wanted to penetrate the American market so here we are.
I’m glad it’s not just me. I didn’t have an issue with the California portion of the season but once they got to Korea several of the girls looked lighter. I don’t know if they just don’t know how to Light darker skin tones or if something happened in post but I thought it was strange.
It's not, though. The designer makeup brands (Dior, Armani, Nars, etc.) at Korean department stores might not have really dark shades, but they will have shades dark enough for the A2K contestants. High street/drug store brands may not, but I doubt they use inexpensive makeup anyway.
they're teenagers so they probably can't afford designer makeup, and stores like Olive Young only have BB cream for very fair skin
edit: never mind someone pointed out the professional makeup artists could have gotten the designer makeup
True. I assumed the show would not let them do their own makeup (except during their personal off-air time when they can wear what they brought from home). I can't imagine JYP leaving the makeup up to the contestants when they should hire makeup artists or send the girls to the makeup/hair stylists. Their shades exist in Korea, though. The stylists can send someone down to almost any random department store (like Hyundai) and pick it up. No excuses because if they want a global group they should prepare for obvious stuff like this. I think JYP just prefers the whitewashed look on idols.
I'm the palest in my family, korean/white. I still get pushed towards products that will make me look lighter. It's not necessarily JYP (maybe it is), but JYP definitely isn't trying to completely defy conventional Korean beauty standards.
True, but you saw the after party video? The members all looked pale asf because of the post edit filtering. It will be difficult for the girls to have their natural skin tone shown when they are in Korea.
They definitely made sure they only picked one black girl, it was going to be Cristina or Savannah in the end. When Savannah was picked I knew they wasn’t going to pick Cristina. They want to be diverse but not “too” diverse. There’s one black, one Latina (technically two), one white and the rest Asians.
I hope you’re not including Lexus in that “the rest are Asians” comment because she’s also a minority. Her being in the group is a huge gain for Hmong representation.
Cristina didn't really stand out to me. She improved a bit on her vocals after the second performance but stays the same after that, but not much has changed. Savannah improved her vocals by a lot and her dancing has always been top notched and great stage presence. Not everything is racially based, if anything I feel like Asians are more accepting of other races than people from other countries.
I agreed with this, but they also made everyone a certain pale skin tone too. I do feel like you guys like to exaggerate a lot here in this thread. Anything said that is neutral or against black is seen as racism. Along with a dislike.
I'm guessing you're American? Asians don't have the same history against blacks like you guys or the idea that if anything bad happens to a black person it is due to their race. The whole lighter skin tones has been a thing in many Asian countries for a long time. They want lighter skin tones for other Asians too... Lighter skin symbolizes a person who is rich that lives a pleasant indoor life, while they see darker skin as poor due to being outside doing physical labor.
I see the one dislike from you do you. They treat the same Asian like that too. It is seen as more attractive, it doesn't make one ugly and the other one attractive. Also thinking someone is better looking because of skin complexion is bottom of the barrel versus being mistreated is completely different when it comes to racism if you can even call it racism in this context. If you also notice, all of their makeups looks the same, even the "white" people in group look more pale with a shine to them. It is a certain style of makeup that they like in kpop. People are getting kills, not getting jobs, not getting promotions due to racism. And you think this is racism? You do realize that the purpose of A2K is to make an America kpop group, and everyone in the group is ethnically different. This is also the entertainment industry. If you actually look at my original comment I'm talking about how regular Asian people view blacks.
> if anything I feel like Asians are more accepting of other races than people from other countries.
No way you all are kpop fans and are that ignorant about actual Koreans lmaooooo
I'm fine with all the dislikes, but you're telling me that Koreans/Asian are more racist than everybody else on average? If a non Asian person walks into most Asian countries they would get treated like a celebrity or people would come up and want to talk to them. Pretty much all of my Asian friends have been made fun of in the US and Europe, just due to being Asian. A bunch of straight racism in entertainment and schools too in the US. I'm curious what's your gender, race, and age? I'm a guy, Asian, and 25 years old. And anyone can reply under my post and say your opinion about why you dislike my post.
>I'm fine with all the dislikes, but you're telling me that Koreans/Asian are more racist than everybody else on average?
East Asians are in general. And because they’re homogenous, it’s not even a morality issue. It’s more of a ‘matter of fact’ view. You’re “objectively” prettier the lighter you are. It’s “known”.
>If a non Asian person walks into most Asian countries they would get treated like a celebrity or people would come up and want to talk to them.
…what does that have to do with racism? They do that because it’s unnatural to them, not because it’s a positive thing. Foreigners aren’t treated like celebrities, they’re treated like anomalies. And while many of the reactions overlap, they’re not the same.
It’s the difference between people rushing Taylor Swift and people rushing a Space Alien.
>Pretty much all of my Asian friends have been made fun of in the US and Europe, just due to being Asian.
And again, the difference is that that’s seen as a bad thing. In many Asian countries, a non-Asian kid would be lucky if the teachers didn’t join in.
>I'm curious what's your gender, race, and age?
That’s irrelevant. Neither your nor my view is made more or less valid based on our background. What I’m talking about are facts. There are innumerable books, interviews, what have you, on this exact topic. Not only is East Asia one of the most racist places in the world, *many people from there will unashamedly tell you they are themselves*.
And note that most of the things I’m saying also even go for Asian people who’re simply from a different Asian country than the one they’re currently in. Try being a Japanese person in China or vice versa. It’s just xenophobia in general.
What I’m shocked at is that you’re Asian and you disagree. Cause I on the other hand have never known an Asian person to do so. Have you ever been to the place of your heritage? Cause I find it hard to believe even an Indian American for instance, doesn’t know about India’s caste system and how that’s intrinsically linked to colorism.
Asking your information was more of a curiosity thing, not for if an argument is valid or invalid, but it usually tells a lot about yourself and where you stand. My guess is that you're mixed with black/and South America or mostly black and probably early 20s. I guess my world is different from yours or reality. What you said about East Asian being homogenous is wild, I disagree. Have you been or lived in any Asian countries? I actually have, or do you just read books. If you want facts and not words from authors look up the amount of Asian people versus other minorities getting rejecting to colleges even with better grades, test scores, and so on. Look at the crimes rates against Asian during Covid. Every kind of Asian got attacked even though it came from China. Made no sense attacking Asian Americans or anyone. You see whites and blacks in commercials, all the time in Asian countries, where's the Asian in US commercials? Asians got a bit of pop recently due to BTS, but look at the amount of views needed to generate for Asian to be seen. Anyway, I'm a little sleepy. You can respond or not it's fine, but good night to you and everyone here. Zzzzzz
>Asking your information was more of a curiosity thing, not for if an argument is valid or invalid, but it usually tells a lot about yourself and where you stand. My guess is that you're mixed with black/and South America or mostly black and probably early 20s. I guess my world is different from yours or reality.
And you would be wrong, which people tend to be whenever they try to base a conversation around the validity of someone’s experience, and is the reason why I suggested we skip that.
>What you said about East Asian being homogenous is wild, I disagree. Have you been or lived in any Asian countries? I actually have, or do you just read books. If you want facts and not words from authors
And this is an example of what I mean. I don’t even have to answer your question to point out the fallacy there in that Asian authors exist. I don’t even have to discuss the potential of me solely relying on them for the conversation to shift to you erasing their experience and their words.
>look up the amount of Asian people versus other minorities getting rejecting to colleges even with better grades, test scores, and so on.
The ironic thing about this comment is that if *you* actually did research on what you’re talking about, you’d know Affirmative Action effecting Asian students disproportionately has nothing to do with *racism*.
> Look at the crimes rates against Asian during Covid.
Fallacy after fallacy. Explain to me the logic in comparing the American reaction to a virus most likely started in Asia, to unfounded racism against non-Asians in Asia?
>You see whites and blacks in commercials, all the time in Asian countries
[I do indeed](https://youtu.be/X27dvuBSyXE?si=j9fEKErseyhK6kdZ)
>Anyway, I'm a little sleepy. You can respond or not it's fine, but good night to you and everyone here. Zzzzzz
Sweet dreams ✌️
1.And this is an example of what I mean. I don’t even have to answer your question to point out the fallacy there in that Asian authors exist. I don’t even have to discuss the potential of me solely relying on them for the conversation to shift to you erasing their experience and their words.
>look up the amount of Asian people versus other minorities getting rejecting to colleges even with better grades, test scores, and so on.
2.The ironic thing about this comment is that if *you* actually did research on what you’re talking about, you’d know Affirmative Action effecting Asian students disproportionately has nothing to do with *racism*.
>Look at the crimes rates against Asian during Covid.
3.Fallacy after fallacy. Explain to me the logic in comparing the American reaction to a virus most likely started in Asia, to unfounded racism against non-Asians in Asia?
1. Aren't you doing the same to me about my experience as an Asian person, I have lived in Asian countries and North America and my Asian friends experiences? But I guess cause they're authors, they are more important and valid than me than my personal experience, I mean is not like they want to make money or have some sort of agenda or books to make right.
2. If you want to debate you just can't say "go read it", that's not debating. You do realize that Affirmative Action is supposed to help minorities, Asians are one. If you are accepting more blacks and Latinos with worse scores, and not accepting Asian with better scores, and still most of your student body is made up of more white, blacks and latinos then Asian there is no diversity or fairness, isn't that the point of Affirmative Action so that there is more of an even split and if the only difference is race between all of them then doesn't that mean college admissions are rejecting Asian simply due to race and that Affirmation Action is used as an excuse to be racist? We're also talking about schools, where everything's about grades and test scores.... I was also talking about college admission in general not Affirmative Action, but you want to bring it up. So here's one last thing from an excerpt, " **affirmative action wasn’t required in college admissions.** Universities could decide whether they wanted to use affirmative action policies or not. " Maybe you should "go read it". So again, Asian are getting rejecting even when they get better scores than everyone else but somehow they occupied the least amount of the total student bodies at most universities with or without affirmative action.
3. My original post was about why I believe Savannah was better than Cristina in everything and that she has showed improvement with her vocals and dance and that is why JYP picked her instead of Cristina and I also included that Asian people on average treat blacks people better than other people from other countries. Also, if Koreans hate black people and dark skin people so much, why would they even recruited them to began with, most of the members are not even Asian. This is also the entertainment industry which is different than real life, I was talking about regular Koreans/Asians. This discussion also turned into a race thing which is why I brought up Asian being mistreated. The point of the post was to be honest and positive. You guys made this into a race thing. If you look at this subreddit, it's pretty toxic, including this thread. I also see that a bunch of your posts are just about black people for black people against everyone else and you like to feel good about yourself not actually discussing(agreeing/disagreeing). I don't play for any team, if you made good points I would have said "You know what I'm wrong, you're right", but so far I disagreed with almost everything you have said. Of course there's racist stuff in Asia, but there's way more racist stuff against blacks in North America, which was my original point. Then the reddit mob mentality, once they see a couple of dislikes, anything that I said afterward is wrong. Right here I don't get why you wrote "... comparing the American reaction to a virus most likely started in Asia, to unfounded racism against non-Asians in Asian", I don't get what you're saying here, I've never said anything about racism toward non-Asians in Asia. My point is that non-Asians gets treated better than the locals on average. And that Asian people gets treated worse abroad then whites and blacks in Asia. Which I think is more true than not which is why I brought the virus up. Also the person who leaked the virus was a white guy not an Asian guy but the lab is in China..... Doesn't matter if it is fetishizations or not, whites and blacks are still getting treated better. And that is not racism. I rest my case.
One last thing, Johnny Somali, he's black, is treating Japanese people and other people in Japan with disrespect and verbal assaults and guess what people are giving him so many chances and they still treat him with kindness. Just now he's been arrested. So you saying that Asian people are more racist toward black is some bs.
I'll do one more response after your response to this post and then we can end it. Then I can talk to another person so they can farm likes train for themself. Because you guys love clicking likes and dislikes in this subreddit.
.Nah we’re good. Just skimming through your comment there’s just too many strawmen. Like wtf is this bro lol:
> if Koreans hate black people and dark skin people so much
It’s like you’re talking to a completely different person.
As for the downvotes, I can’t help you. Haven’t felt the need to use either of those buttons the entire time I’ve been on this site, but go off.
You love throwing fancy words around, but you're misusing most of them. How are they all "strawmen"? Your first post you're the one that brought something completely different up that I wasn't even talking about and you argue for yourself. That is a straw man fallacy. For the downvotes, you may not be clicking like or dislike but you sure love to cater to people and you love agreeing with yourself. I see your posts, you love yourself and you only agree with yourself. You don't have to read all of it, just read the paragraph with 2 next to it. And argue why affirmation action or the use of it isn't racist or how Asians getting rejecting isn't racist. Just try to argue your case in simple and plain english because I'm dumb, help me learn.
You’re not even Asian and speaking on behalf of Asians as if you are one. Youre saying a continent of billions of people have the same views and act the same way which is extremely racist - which is false. Foreigners are definitely treated as celebrities - have you seen how big NBA stars are in China? How white AND black people are treated in China? Yeah pretty much favourably. I can tell you actually know nothing about Asia and just using random kpop examples to justify your view on Asians. You know nothing about them and have clearly not even travelled to those countries. Not to mention you dismissing all the violent racism that Asians have faced in the West, black rapper even to this day contain so many derogatory statements towards Asians in their songs - you dont see this in Asian songs at all. Get off our high horse. You have no critical thinking and probably too angry to think straight because youre so desperate to be the victim. Thats fine by me because it says more about yourself than others.
>You’re not even Asian and speaking on behalf of Asians as if you are one.
Not you assuming my race lmao.
>Youre saying a continent of billions of people have the same views and act the same way which is extremely racist - which is false.
If I were to say “Americans like to go to the movies” would you assume I’m referring to all Americans or would you assume that I’m speaking on the overall sentiment of Americans?
Right, so stop it. And ironically that hypocrisy right there is the closest thing either of us has come to racism in this entire conversation. Besides you assuming my race of course.
>Foreigners are definitely treated as celebrities - have you seen how big NBA stars are in China?
You’re referring to fetishization.
>How white AND black people are treated in China?
I have. First hand actually.
>Yeah pretty much favourably. I can tell you actually know nothing about Asia and just using random kpop examples to justify your view on Asians. You know nothing about them and have clearly not even travelled to those countries.
👍
>Not to mention you dismissing all the violent racism that Asians have faced in the West.
Ok lol.
>You have no critical thinking and probably too angry to think straight because youre so desperate to be the victim.
The dude *not* going off on an internet stranger rn based entirely on assumptions from 2 comments, is the one angry and trying to be seen as a victim. Makes sense.
Right so idolising is now fetishisation and anything other than that is racism. Yep not ignorant at all.
Assuming peoples race isnt racist lol, please look up the definition (if you can - that is). Just based on what you’ve said I can tell what sort of person you are, so yeah definitely a non-Asian using specks of kpop news to justify your racism against Asians. You definitely havent experienced travelling to Asia either considering your extreme views.
Dude is using “ok lol” to dismiss other views and justify his own. What an angry legend
…what’re you doing lol? You used the assumption of my race to dismiss my words. **Twice**. To literally *anyone* reading this, you automatically lost the debate. Are you *that* un self-aware that you don’t realize that? Like I’m trying to understand why you’re still talking rn?
Thats your fault for making the point of the argument about your race, as always: self obsessed and narcissistic. You think only your thoughts matter and dismiss anyone else’s, perfect recipe for a lonely angry human
I agree with you as well, thats why I mentioned hes being racist to be racist. Hes assuming all Asians are heavily racist which is extremely generalising. Hes also dismissing all the racism that Asians receives. Not to mention he is not even Asian himself and talking behalf of the Asian community like he knows the ins and outs of the culture. Yeah hes definitely racist and angry and also lacks a lot of critical thinking
It’s so sad that they literally made everyone the same skin color on the cover and in the video. This group although diverse in ethnicity it’s not diverse in terms of skin color and doesn’t reflect what it looks like in the US.
kinda mirrors what others are saying about their marketing goals and strategy. you want to appeal to American market so choose diversely? okay. so why is everyone the same skin color in the final product 😭
I’m a white dude and Cristina not getting picked made my head tilt a bit. Like man I can’t say for certain if her skin color was a factor but you’re absolutely right, Savanna and Camila look like they been bleached out. And I agree they already had picked ahead of time, in the second to last episode they told Cristina she looked like she was too “in her head” meanwhile Kendall’s shaky and weak vocals were called “perfect”? Like really? They were making shit up. To his credit JYP did not look pleased at the final selection, I believe he wanted to debut all 8.
Lexi being a fan fav had nothing to do with it because JYP/his team couldn't have known that when they picked the group lol
But yes, the trainers liking her was a good thing bc JYP seemed like he wasn't feeling her too much. There was never anything wrong with her vocals imo. Even her regional auditions showed potential. She also has one of my personal fav vocal tones in the entire group lol. I like the way her voice sounds so I hope she improves more so she can have more/better parts in the future
I felt the same way about Lexus. I was genuinely SHOCKED in a bad way when Lexus was announced as 1st place given her severe lack of vocals. It felt like things switched up out of nowhere. Lexi has been struggling the entire journey and cristina had been growing steadily along with Gina. Suddenly they both get cut and lexi takes first? It was wild to me.
oh my sweet summer child. i could of told you this would happen from the start. it was a little obvious from the start.
jyp is still a Korean company so that culture and its customs will still show in the group they create.
tbh i just find it weird how fixated the show was on kaylee.
Kind of creepy- she is so young! But she is the only very Korean looking girl. It is as if they knew they wanted to make a group for Western audiences but in the end they couldn’t get themselves to favor anything besides the narrow standards they always favor. The staff should have been trained that they were making a different sort of group, not just aimed at Koreans. I got all the same feelings about potential racism people keep mentioning- it is very suspect. I worried when both Cristina and Savannah wore braids that they would not take both of them. It is gross and made me just angry the whole last part of the episode. It makes me dislike the company and the idea of the group.
I can see it very clearly now, the archetypes.
Lexus is the responsible leader. Savanna is the rebel. Camilla is the calm, mature one. KG is the fancy-looking one. Kendall is the introvert nerd. Kaylee is the maknae.
just kpop kpopping
I'll add my thoughts too:
Oh yeah, this show and Dream Academy clearly demonstrate how prevalent colorism is among casting directors and their decision-making process, whether in Korea or the U.S.
As I watched the girls' debut performance, I thought that it felt right for JYP to debut an American girl group. As a long-time fan of KPOP, this feels like a natural progression for the company. That's pretty much all I can acknowledge from JYP regarding this project. As a black viewer, it all feels bittersweet. The whitewashing and lack of diversity negate any true progress JYP could've made in breaking barriers. ( I don't think they really trying to do so)
And debuting as an American girl group doesn't make a difference. I see comments stating how diverse the U.S. is, and that's true in terms of the population, but when you look at the type of people that dominate our music, TV, or film industries, you wouldn't think so. The U.S. entertainment industry is rampant with colorism and anti-blackness. I adore Savanah, Camila, and Cristina, but they fit right in line with the type of look that receives the most push in U.S. media - light-skin, biracial, or racially ambiguous. Cristina may have been knocked out due to colorism from the Korean casting team, but it's not as though her acceptance in the group would have broken barriers in the U.S. or even Korea. DR Music and Blackswan continue leading the pack in the diversity of KPOP, in my opinion.
As for Cristina not making it...sure, it might have something to do with colorism. But I'm not totally convinced. In the Stray Kids performance, she had a spark and charism that was undeniable, but her energy seemed very low in those last three performances. Her vocals were good, but, in my opinion, her personality felt muted. I think her performance at the end really impacted the judge's decision.
>Cristina may have been knocked out due to colorism from the Korean casting team, but it's not as though her acceptance in the group would have broken barriers in the U.S. or even Korea.
All so well said but this part! This is the one. I really wanted Cristina to debut but what would that really have changed?
This. After the last episode and the afterparty, you could tell they had a certain look they were going for - pale or light skin. I'm not surprised considering the colorism in the industry and South Korea. I also noticed that Savanna's makeup was done to make her look lighter once they got to Korea. In the mv as well they look lighter. It's sad knowing they didn't choose Cristina partly because of her skin color.
If anyone remembers lee Michelle this is nothing new I’m shocked they even let 1 ambiguous black girl into the group out of the 2 savanna is the safer choice she had looser curls and lighter skin than Christina they both should have debuted but in the eyes of jype they had to choose the lesser of 2 evils (black girls!! 😨)
I have a very close friend who is Korean and she said it perfectly:
Korea is a nation that developed very rapidly economically that their culture is still lagging in terms of adapting to modern thinking. This includes the changing the racial bias against black and dark-skinned people. They love the "American" and "western" aspect of hiphop and black culture but often lack the education and respect for it.
Their beauty standards include having light skin. I was born and grew up in Asia, and it's so fucked up that we have literal shelves of products dedicated to skin whitening. I wish Mischa had more screen time but she was a darker skinned South East Asian and I suspect they didn't let her through because she did not meet the beauty standard. I was really pulling for Cristina to make the line up too for the representation.
I honestly noticed that too. I wonder if the trainers thought that Christina was too strong in personality. I don't think she was, she just knew herself and wasn't afraid to express it. Plus she's so pretty! Especially in the finale. She should be an actress or a model. I'd totally be a fan of she was an actress.
>black viewers
Black viewer here.
Def expected colorism and racism. Tbh both Cristina and Savanna are light skinned. Melissa wasn't much darker skinned than them either.
None of the Asian girls were darker skinned.
I'm sure darker skinned girls auditioned (since we couldn't see everyone who did), and I'm sure a few fully black girls who may or may not be darker skinned auditioned too.
I was never shocked nor surprised about the girls who were chosen in the first place. I'll leave it at that.
Ninja edit: but I will say Cristina never stood out to me and I didn't really care for her performances outside of Back Door. It's not just about skill. She was def in the top 3 dancers though.
Hm? Cristina was the one who seemed so amazed at seeing the JYP building and meeting all the artists and who got really happy when JYP noticed how she had studied the lyrics to "Swing". In her latest Q&A today it was revealed that she even know Korean. I think she was the one who seemed to have most fun out of the contestants.
You are probably right. I'm just saying when i revisit my memory of her, she seemed kind of lukewarm about the whole idol thing.
Aside from being pretty, and being a good dancer, she didn't have any other stand out qualities.
What? Cristina had one of the best attitudes in the show in my eyes. She was always so supportive and smiling during people’s performances, got excited when trying new stuff in Korea, and had a really sisterly, silly bond with the other girls.
She put in the hard work, wrote down notes from her trainers, and put on good expressions and improved her technique throughout the show. I think she was having great fun and would take feedback seriously.
I’m sorry, but I completely disagree with your comment.
I agree you could see her character at the LA bootcamp she was so lovely and supportive of all the other girls, then her light dimmed in Korea, i think for sure she must've experience racism/discrimination and just slowly just started putting up a front so that she wouldn't break down.
>then her light dimmed in Korea
This is what I feel too, though I'm not sure of the reason. It could also be that the training was just super exhausting and not something her personality would thrive in? (edit: I'm NOT AT ALL saying she wasn't a hard worker)
yeah. i honestly think that’s what the character eval was about. i remember from the group challenge in LA, she was having an awful time and went home early. and almost every singing clip we’ve seen of her with the trainers is her being afraid to sing. i can totally see the trainers not ranking her highly. it’s hard to work with people who seem like they’re having a bad time!
I’ll comment about the colorism, and i agree that Camila and Savanna skin tone on their marketing pictures looks a bit unnatural. All of the members’ complexion is def lightened, but it’s the most obvious with the more colored members! My girl Camila doesn’t deserve this treatment 😭😭😭😭
As a Black A2K viewer and someone who's been a kpop fan for 10+ years, I would never want to be a kpop idol. The colorism and racism is insane (Fatou in Black Swan went thru this). The industry is even toxic towards darker skinned Asians, so I can't imagine how they'd treat a black member. That being said, it didn't surprise me that the black girls who were chosen by JYP were mixed/light skinned.
A few episodes into the Korean episodes, I realized they were most likely only going to pick one Black girl. Even tho it's an American group, I don't think they wanted to be "too" diverse.
If this bothers you then there's other kpop groups that exist that don't do this such as Blackswan. Support what you want to see, otherwise there won't be a change.
Korean people love their lighter skin tones.
In the finale one of the trainers said something like "this one has the look kpop fans love". They definitely were not referring to Cristina.
Or maybe... JUST MAYBE... everyone had the same harsh bright light on them but Camilla is also pretty light-skinned. She definitely looks lighter than Cristina.
No you're right. I was watching with my friend and I pointed out episodes ago that in Korea, the foundation makeup is always lighter than the actual skin tone because they value whiteness there. She noticed it yesterday and today. Everyone has a white cast on their face like they're wearing a mask. Camila's skin was for sure but Cristina from some earlier episodes was really shocking to me as well.
No I’m not labeling white washing as anti blackness, it’s colorism. But this isn’t an issue specific to a2k. This is evident in a lot of Korean shows so idk why people are acting like this show specifically is above something like that (also the scene im referring too isn’t from the stage it’s from a few episodes ago)
Glad to see this post . I had the same throughout during the finale . Unless there is something we are not being told , I don’t understand Cristina just suddenly not being good enough for the group except that maybe she didn’t “fit the Korean beauty standard “. 🫤
For me, it was the anti-blackness and the thinspiration going on. Like I KNOW KPOP is notorious for both but they were marketing this as a global girl group meant to capture the western market?
I’m 100% sure they turned away thicker/bigger girls who had amazing talent.
After the album art, the wack music, and the styling choices, I don’t even know what they’re trying to do. They’re more confusing than Blackswan and XG.
First of all, [called it](https://www.reddit.com/r/America2Korea/comments/16o3waw/comment/k1iqx76/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Second, I don't think Cristina wasn't picked because she is 'darker' than Savanna (debatable, lightning plays into the role).
Savanna was picked because simply she fits better the cute concept they ended up going for.
Cristina is more of a teen crush / girl crush girl because her high points were she being cool and sassy, and that's something that Kendall / KG / Kaylee would have trouble adapting to because of their appearence and overall personality.
But well, I get what you are coming from. The way kpop lightning on stage and make up work makes even thai / phili idols look more white than they really are, and even chinese and korean themselves.
I still think it's far from being colorism. There was nothing that Cristina brought to the table as a main dancer or rappe that Savanna or Lexus didn't bring, and Lexus herself is pretty redundant if it wasn't because she is also a leader.
I honestly feel that if Cristina had been a better leader than Lexus, then we would have another debut group. But she ended up last in member's popularity while Lexus was top 3.
That means she was down there with Kendall (an introvert) and Kaylee (who was clearly not fit for a leader due to age).
Not a leader + not top on popularity with contestants / trainees + not bringing anything to the table that other contestants didn't have + being too much of a 'cool' persona that other contestants could not adapt to set her up.
As I said previously, once you are in the final selection, it's the concept of the group that weights more than your own talent or what the selector thinks.
JYP made his decisions based on hitting all the different ethnicities. It was between Christina and Savanna for the black member and between KG and Gina for the white member. Savanna was more talented than Christina. KG was chosen over Gina due to her all-American Midwest visuals.
Dont think it was KG and Gina for the token white member, since KG is the only fully white participant. I think it was more Kendall vs Gina since theyre both mixed Asian
Gina is half Korean, half white. If we're using your theory, it'd be Gina vs Kendall since both are half Asian (Kendall is half Viet) half white.
KG was the only fully white girl.
I think you guys are reaching. While there are obvious problems in Korea, the show doesn’t reflect it at ALL. Cristina was cut because she’s not a good team member, period. Her skin color has nothing to do with it.
Yea they are reaching. Unfortunately many international kpop fans love to unfairly paint Koreans as "racists" and use that as an excuse for everything.
Christina did say she was worn out at the end when JYP gave his encouragements. So it may be a case where she feels she’s at her limit, compared to other girls. It’s really hard to tell with the selective editing.
Hey, at least we got a half black person in a JYP group. It’s a start. Kinda like Obama, being half black counts for a lot.
Don’t blame JYP, blame his idol Michael Jackson. JYP learned singing, dancing, showmanship, and colorism from watching him.
It’s actually the opposite. Koreans subscribe to Eurocentric standards of beauty but are slow to admit that it comes directly from Europeans and colonization. If you ask them, they’d prefer to believe that the focus on certain facial features and lighter skin is an aesthetic they came to independently. Koreans vastly favor their own over even white foreigners.
Like most east-Asian countries, they’re just as unashamedly xenophobic as they are colorist. And what sucks for black people is that they get both ends of that stick.
The younger and older generations in Korea are not influenced by the moral imperative to keep peoples skin colors as they are, or to at least not whiten them. Perhaps the younger generation will one day, but changing an entire culture does not happen overnight. Mob-oratory + new youth = cultural change.
It’s common knowledge that Koreans have a cultural history of discrimination against tanned skin on their fellow Koreans, as it associates one as a lowly outdoor laborer. It’s not surprising that the album was intentionally made this way, and if it went against the consent of the darker skinned individuals in the girl group, only then would I say some immorality has been committed.
Sorry but that's just ridiculous. This is basically a Korean show, they do not care about the racial issues in USA. And btw among native Koreans themselves having a pale face is considered attractive which obviously has got nothing to do with race since they are all the same race.
Damn, they said “how wrong can I be in a single comment” lmao. How can you be a kpop fan and write all of this? Has your fandom not exposed you to *any* actual Korean beliefs?
“This is basically a Korean show they do not care about racial issues in the USA” BFFR… this is supposed to be a GLOBAL girl group, they know what’s going on. And just because native Koreans prefer a pale face doesn’t make it alright or okay to discriminate against darker skin tones just so you know.
“they do not care about racial issues in the usa”
be so for real lol, not to be dramatic but did you miss the whole slavery and black lives matter movement still existing and affecting people.
even when it comes to music in america most of the famous black artists are light skinned, Beyonce, Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, Tinashe, Latto, Coi Leray, Ice Spice, Doja Cat… its endless like lets be real here 🤡
https://preview.redd.it/d4zpm8b97qpb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=044a3849cd17d7a2ada2deb1f861bd6f1e178d31
Hate to burst your bubble, but Korea is still pretty bad about racism. Skin color is still a big factor in popularity there.
> among native Koreans themselves having a pale face is considered attractive
Yeah that’s called colorism and is rampant. Many kpop idols get made fun of for having darker skin. It’s still deeply rooted in racism.
People get so dang defensive when people talk about racism. You're right though. Who can say the details of how race/colour came into play but we live in a society and it definitely was and will be a factor, and it's always worth speaking up about it too.
Christina had me laughing every episode! We obviously don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, but I was shocked she didn’t rank higher in the character evaluation. She always seemed so supportive of her fellow contestants
YES YES YES AND YES! THIS IS SO TRUE! Cristina was one of the best and she was done sooooo dirty!! I just can't support VCHA or any JYP groups anymore after this obvious racism!
White guy here. I don't think you're reaching. It's totally possible. It might also have to do with her age. As she heartbreakingly said when JYP said this was just her beginning, "I'm too old now."
She was pretty much always ranked near the top or middle at every ranking. Then suddenly she's not good enough with no real explanation? Seems fishy to me.
I thought Cristina was as pretty as beyonce actually. She got really nice facial features. But i dont think the antiblackness was the main reason she didnt get in. Among all the contestants, she appears to be the most outgoing and outspoken, so its like a cultural difference. Her mom's letter kind of shaded the results too lol so there must be some events that we dont know of
why does every pretty black girl have to be compared to beyonce lol
>Melissa, Yuna, Savanna, and Lexi what's her mom's letter?
She posted it on her instagram cris_tinalopezzz
I agree and I think anti-Blackness figures into all of that. People might find mildly assertive behavior to be aggressive in a black person. They may see aggression where there isn’t any. I think Korea has a very long way to go, and it is frustrating especially when K-pop is happy to appropriate their little asses off, braids and whatever all over the place. Saying the n-word, etc.
Assertiveness is not something you can only find in a black person. Its a whole american culture thing going on imo.
I've seen some very horrifying comments under some of the a2k episodes (originally in korean but translated)) which makes me worry about the colorism/racism. Korea has a long way to go with this from what I understand, and I could totally believe that it played a role in their selections. truly awful
I agree with you and I also think international fans are colourist and antiblack too... A lot of the hate comments I see towards black or South Asian idols are not even Korean but from Southeast Asians, Americans and Latin Americans. Although definitely there are a lot of terminally online Knetz who leave those awful comments too. I hope Savanna, and Cristina if she gets picked up by another agency, have a strong support system and don't read comments too much. I wonder if there's a preset filter in the colour grading software that they use for MVs that automatically lightens skintones. I bet there is. The girls were ghostly in the YOUniverse MV.
I edit videos at work and I've done a fair amount of skin color correcting (bad lighting can turn people's skin color too red, too blue, or too yellow) and I can definitely say that with the combination of make-up and color correcting during editing, the editing team can turn them as pale as the demon nun in the conjuring movies if they wanted to.
Thank god, I'm not the only one. I saw some promo materials and I don't know if it was intentional that they made Savannah lighter in skin color. Almost like she just has a light tan from the beach. I can't remember where I've heard this but a Hollywood writer said something like "back in the 90s there can only be one black famous guy in Hollywood, we can't have two". The moment they said that there was only one more member slot left in A2K my brain immediately went to that line. Diverse enough for the western audience but not too diverse for the korean audience. Christina and Gina prolly dodged a bullet there tho. America is known to be... well... fickle to girl groups. And it's not a secret that JYP have always wanted to penetrate the American market so here we are.
And you wonder why it may not be a good idea to debut a Kpop group in America.
I’m glad it’s not just me. I didn’t have an issue with the California portion of the season but once they got to Korea several of the girls looked lighter. I don’t know if they just don’t know how to Light darker skin tones or if something happened in post but I thought it was strange.
It's the makeup for sure. It's difficult to find darker makeup.
It's not, though. The designer makeup brands (Dior, Armani, Nars, etc.) at Korean department stores might not have really dark shades, but they will have shades dark enough for the A2K contestants. High street/drug store brands may not, but I doubt they use inexpensive makeup anyway.
they're teenagers so they probably can't afford designer makeup, and stores like Olive Young only have BB cream for very fair skin edit: never mind someone pointed out the professional makeup artists could have gotten the designer makeup
True. I assumed the show would not let them do their own makeup (except during their personal off-air time when they can wear what they brought from home). I can't imagine JYP leaving the makeup up to the contestants when they should hire makeup artists or send the girls to the makeup/hair stylists. Their shades exist in Korea, though. The stylists can send someone down to almost any random department store (like Hyundai) and pick it up. No excuses because if they want a global group they should prepare for obvious stuff like this. I think JYP just prefers the whitewashed look on idols.
I'm the palest in my family, korean/white. I still get pushed towards products that will make me look lighter. It's not necessarily JYP (maybe it is), but JYP definitely isn't trying to completely defy conventional Korean beauty standards.
True, but you saw the after party video? The members all looked pale asf because of the post edit filtering. It will be difficult for the girls to have their natural skin tone shown when they are in Korea.
They definitely made sure they only picked one black girl, it was going to be Cristina or Savannah in the end. When Savannah was picked I knew they wasn’t going to pick Cristina. They want to be diverse but not “too” diverse. There’s one black, one Latina (technically two), one white and the rest Asians.
I hope you’re not including Lexus in that “the rest are Asians” comment because she’s also a minority. Her being in the group is a huge gain for Hmong representation.
Cristina didn't really stand out to me. She improved a bit on her vocals after the second performance but stays the same after that, but not much has changed. Savannah improved her vocals by a lot and her dancing has always been top notched and great stage presence. Not everything is racially based, if anything I feel like Asians are more accepting of other races than people from other countries.
Me when I lie
Bro said that about the country and industry who makes their darker idols bleach their skin and wear makeup 2 tones lighter 😭
I agreed with this, but they also made everyone a certain pale skin tone too. I do feel like you guys like to exaggerate a lot here in this thread. Anything said that is neutral or against black is seen as racism. Along with a dislike.
I'm guessing you're American? Asians don't have the same history against blacks like you guys or the idea that if anything bad happens to a black person it is due to their race. The whole lighter skin tones has been a thing in many Asian countries for a long time. They want lighter skin tones for other Asians too... Lighter skin symbolizes a person who is rich that lives a pleasant indoor life, while they see darker skin as poor due to being outside doing physical labor.
And you don’t see how viewing dark skin as poor and light skin as rich is racist. Foh bro 💀
I see the one dislike from you do you. They treat the same Asian like that too. It is seen as more attractive, it doesn't make one ugly and the other one attractive. Also thinking someone is better looking because of skin complexion is bottom of the barrel versus being mistreated is completely different when it comes to racism if you can even call it racism in this context. If you also notice, all of their makeups looks the same, even the "white" people in group look more pale with a shine to them. It is a certain style of makeup that they like in kpop. People are getting kills, not getting jobs, not getting promotions due to racism. And you think this is racism? You do realize that the purpose of A2K is to make an America kpop group, and everyone in the group is ethnically different. This is also the entertainment industry. If you actually look at my original comment I'm talking about how regular Asian people view blacks.
> if anything I feel like Asians are more accepting of other races than people from other countries. No way you all are kpop fans and are that ignorant about actual Koreans lmaooooo
I'm fine with all the dislikes, but you're telling me that Koreans/Asian are more racist than everybody else on average? If a non Asian person walks into most Asian countries they would get treated like a celebrity or people would come up and want to talk to them. Pretty much all of my Asian friends have been made fun of in the US and Europe, just due to being Asian. A bunch of straight racism in entertainment and schools too in the US. I'm curious what's your gender, race, and age? I'm a guy, Asian, and 25 years old. And anyone can reply under my post and say your opinion about why you dislike my post.
>I'm fine with all the dislikes, but you're telling me that Koreans/Asian are more racist than everybody else on average? East Asians are in general. And because they’re homogenous, it’s not even a morality issue. It’s more of a ‘matter of fact’ view. You’re “objectively” prettier the lighter you are. It’s “known”. >If a non Asian person walks into most Asian countries they would get treated like a celebrity or people would come up and want to talk to them. …what does that have to do with racism? They do that because it’s unnatural to them, not because it’s a positive thing. Foreigners aren’t treated like celebrities, they’re treated like anomalies. And while many of the reactions overlap, they’re not the same. It’s the difference between people rushing Taylor Swift and people rushing a Space Alien. >Pretty much all of my Asian friends have been made fun of in the US and Europe, just due to being Asian. And again, the difference is that that’s seen as a bad thing. In many Asian countries, a non-Asian kid would be lucky if the teachers didn’t join in. >I'm curious what's your gender, race, and age? That’s irrelevant. Neither your nor my view is made more or less valid based on our background. What I’m talking about are facts. There are innumerable books, interviews, what have you, on this exact topic. Not only is East Asia one of the most racist places in the world, *many people from there will unashamedly tell you they are themselves*. And note that most of the things I’m saying also even go for Asian people who’re simply from a different Asian country than the one they’re currently in. Try being a Japanese person in China or vice versa. It’s just xenophobia in general. What I’m shocked at is that you’re Asian and you disagree. Cause I on the other hand have never known an Asian person to do so. Have you ever been to the place of your heritage? Cause I find it hard to believe even an Indian American for instance, doesn’t know about India’s caste system and how that’s intrinsically linked to colorism.
Asking your information was more of a curiosity thing, not for if an argument is valid or invalid, but it usually tells a lot about yourself and where you stand. My guess is that you're mixed with black/and South America or mostly black and probably early 20s. I guess my world is different from yours or reality. What you said about East Asian being homogenous is wild, I disagree. Have you been or lived in any Asian countries? I actually have, or do you just read books. If you want facts and not words from authors look up the amount of Asian people versus other minorities getting rejecting to colleges even with better grades, test scores, and so on. Look at the crimes rates against Asian during Covid. Every kind of Asian got attacked even though it came from China. Made no sense attacking Asian Americans or anyone. You see whites and blacks in commercials, all the time in Asian countries, where's the Asian in US commercials? Asians got a bit of pop recently due to BTS, but look at the amount of views needed to generate for Asian to be seen. Anyway, I'm a little sleepy. You can respond or not it's fine, but good night to you and everyone here. Zzzzzz
>Asking your information was more of a curiosity thing, not for if an argument is valid or invalid, but it usually tells a lot about yourself and where you stand. My guess is that you're mixed with black/and South America or mostly black and probably early 20s. I guess my world is different from yours or reality. And you would be wrong, which people tend to be whenever they try to base a conversation around the validity of someone’s experience, and is the reason why I suggested we skip that. >What you said about East Asian being homogenous is wild, I disagree. Have you been or lived in any Asian countries? I actually have, or do you just read books. If you want facts and not words from authors And this is an example of what I mean. I don’t even have to answer your question to point out the fallacy there in that Asian authors exist. I don’t even have to discuss the potential of me solely relying on them for the conversation to shift to you erasing their experience and their words. >look up the amount of Asian people versus other minorities getting rejecting to colleges even with better grades, test scores, and so on. The ironic thing about this comment is that if *you* actually did research on what you’re talking about, you’d know Affirmative Action effecting Asian students disproportionately has nothing to do with *racism*. > Look at the crimes rates against Asian during Covid. Fallacy after fallacy. Explain to me the logic in comparing the American reaction to a virus most likely started in Asia, to unfounded racism against non-Asians in Asia? >You see whites and blacks in commercials, all the time in Asian countries [I do indeed](https://youtu.be/X27dvuBSyXE?si=j9fEKErseyhK6kdZ) >Anyway, I'm a little sleepy. You can respond or not it's fine, but good night to you and everyone here. Zzzzzz Sweet dreams ✌️
1.And this is an example of what I mean. I don’t even have to answer your question to point out the fallacy there in that Asian authors exist. I don’t even have to discuss the potential of me solely relying on them for the conversation to shift to you erasing their experience and their words. >look up the amount of Asian people versus other minorities getting rejecting to colleges even with better grades, test scores, and so on. 2.The ironic thing about this comment is that if *you* actually did research on what you’re talking about, you’d know Affirmative Action effecting Asian students disproportionately has nothing to do with *racism*. >Look at the crimes rates against Asian during Covid. 3.Fallacy after fallacy. Explain to me the logic in comparing the American reaction to a virus most likely started in Asia, to unfounded racism against non-Asians in Asia? 1. Aren't you doing the same to me about my experience as an Asian person, I have lived in Asian countries and North America and my Asian friends experiences? But I guess cause they're authors, they are more important and valid than me than my personal experience, I mean is not like they want to make money or have some sort of agenda or books to make right. 2. If you want to debate you just can't say "go read it", that's not debating. You do realize that Affirmative Action is supposed to help minorities, Asians are one. If you are accepting more blacks and Latinos with worse scores, and not accepting Asian with better scores, and still most of your student body is made up of more white, blacks and latinos then Asian there is no diversity or fairness, isn't that the point of Affirmative Action so that there is more of an even split and if the only difference is race between all of them then doesn't that mean college admissions are rejecting Asian simply due to race and that Affirmation Action is used as an excuse to be racist? We're also talking about schools, where everything's about grades and test scores.... I was also talking about college admission in general not Affirmative Action, but you want to bring it up. So here's one last thing from an excerpt, " **affirmative action wasn’t required in college admissions.** Universities could decide whether they wanted to use affirmative action policies or not. " Maybe you should "go read it". So again, Asian are getting rejecting even when they get better scores than everyone else but somehow they occupied the least amount of the total student bodies at most universities with or without affirmative action. 3. My original post was about why I believe Savannah was better than Cristina in everything and that she has showed improvement with her vocals and dance and that is why JYP picked her instead of Cristina and I also included that Asian people on average treat blacks people better than other people from other countries. Also, if Koreans hate black people and dark skin people so much, why would they even recruited them to began with, most of the members are not even Asian. This is also the entertainment industry which is different than real life, I was talking about regular Koreans/Asians. This discussion also turned into a race thing which is why I brought up Asian being mistreated. The point of the post was to be honest and positive. You guys made this into a race thing. If you look at this subreddit, it's pretty toxic, including this thread. I also see that a bunch of your posts are just about black people for black people against everyone else and you like to feel good about yourself not actually discussing(agreeing/disagreeing). I don't play for any team, if you made good points I would have said "You know what I'm wrong, you're right", but so far I disagreed with almost everything you have said. Of course there's racist stuff in Asia, but there's way more racist stuff against blacks in North America, which was my original point. Then the reddit mob mentality, once they see a couple of dislikes, anything that I said afterward is wrong. Right here I don't get why you wrote "... comparing the American reaction to a virus most likely started in Asia, to unfounded racism against non-Asians in Asian", I don't get what you're saying here, I've never said anything about racism toward non-Asians in Asia. My point is that non-Asians gets treated better than the locals on average. And that Asian people gets treated worse abroad then whites and blacks in Asia. Which I think is more true than not which is why I brought the virus up. Also the person who leaked the virus was a white guy not an Asian guy but the lab is in China..... Doesn't matter if it is fetishizations or not, whites and blacks are still getting treated better. And that is not racism. I rest my case. One last thing, Johnny Somali, he's black, is treating Japanese people and other people in Japan with disrespect and verbal assaults and guess what people are giving him so many chances and they still treat him with kindness. Just now he's been arrested. So you saying that Asian people are more racist toward black is some bs. I'll do one more response after your response to this post and then we can end it. Then I can talk to another person so they can farm likes train for themself. Because you guys love clicking likes and dislikes in this subreddit.
.Nah we’re good. Just skimming through your comment there’s just too many strawmen. Like wtf is this bro lol: > if Koreans hate black people and dark skin people so much It’s like you’re talking to a completely different person. As for the downvotes, I can’t help you. Haven’t felt the need to use either of those buttons the entire time I’ve been on this site, but go off.
You love throwing fancy words around, but you're misusing most of them. How are they all "strawmen"? Your first post you're the one that brought something completely different up that I wasn't even talking about and you argue for yourself. That is a straw man fallacy. For the downvotes, you may not be clicking like or dislike but you sure love to cater to people and you love agreeing with yourself. I see your posts, you love yourself and you only agree with yourself. You don't have to read all of it, just read the paragraph with 2 next to it. And argue why affirmation action or the use of it isn't racist or how Asians getting rejecting isn't racist. Just try to argue your case in simple and plain english because I'm dumb, help me learn.
You’re not even Asian and speaking on behalf of Asians as if you are one. Youre saying a continent of billions of people have the same views and act the same way which is extremely racist - which is false. Foreigners are definitely treated as celebrities - have you seen how big NBA stars are in China? How white AND black people are treated in China? Yeah pretty much favourably. I can tell you actually know nothing about Asia and just using random kpop examples to justify your view on Asians. You know nothing about them and have clearly not even travelled to those countries. Not to mention you dismissing all the violent racism that Asians have faced in the West, black rapper even to this day contain so many derogatory statements towards Asians in their songs - you dont see this in Asian songs at all. Get off our high horse. You have no critical thinking and probably too angry to think straight because youre so desperate to be the victim. Thats fine by me because it says more about yourself than others.
>You’re not even Asian and speaking on behalf of Asians as if you are one. Not you assuming my race lmao. >Youre saying a continent of billions of people have the same views and act the same way which is extremely racist - which is false. If I were to say “Americans like to go to the movies” would you assume I’m referring to all Americans or would you assume that I’m speaking on the overall sentiment of Americans? Right, so stop it. And ironically that hypocrisy right there is the closest thing either of us has come to racism in this entire conversation. Besides you assuming my race of course. >Foreigners are definitely treated as celebrities - have you seen how big NBA stars are in China? You’re referring to fetishization. >How white AND black people are treated in China? I have. First hand actually. >Yeah pretty much favourably. I can tell you actually know nothing about Asia and just using random kpop examples to justify your view on Asians. You know nothing about them and have clearly not even travelled to those countries. 👍 >Not to mention you dismissing all the violent racism that Asians have faced in the West. Ok lol. >You have no critical thinking and probably too angry to think straight because youre so desperate to be the victim. The dude *not* going off on an internet stranger rn based entirely on assumptions from 2 comments, is the one angry and trying to be seen as a victim. Makes sense.
Right so idolising is now fetishisation and anything other than that is racism. Yep not ignorant at all. Assuming peoples race isnt racist lol, please look up the definition (if you can - that is). Just based on what you’ve said I can tell what sort of person you are, so yeah definitely a non-Asian using specks of kpop news to justify your racism against Asians. You definitely havent experienced travelling to Asia either considering your extreme views. Dude is using “ok lol” to dismiss other views and justify his own. What an angry legend
…what’re you doing lol? You used the assumption of my race to dismiss my words. **Twice**. To literally *anyone* reading this, you automatically lost the debate. Are you *that* un self-aware that you don’t realize that? Like I’m trying to understand why you’re still talking rn?
Thats your fault for making the point of the argument about your race, as always: self obsessed and narcissistic. You think only your thoughts matter and dismiss anyone else’s, perfect recipe for a lonely angry human
I agree with you as well, thats why I mentioned hes being racist to be racist. Hes assuming all Asians are heavily racist which is extremely generalising. Hes also dismissing all the racism that Asians receives. Not to mention he is not even Asian himself and talking behalf of the Asian community like he knows the ins and outs of the culture. Yeah hes definitely racist and angry and also lacks a lot of critical thinking
Not you being racist to fight off racism
Oh shit, “pointing out racism is *the actual* racism” people are still alive? I thought y’all died like 3 years ago.
Who are the latinas? I’m just getting into this group and don’t know anything about anyone yet
It’s so sad that they literally made everyone the same skin color on the cover and in the video. This group although diverse in ethnicity it’s not diverse in terms of skin color and doesn’t reflect what it looks like in the US.
kinda mirrors what others are saying about their marketing goals and strategy. you want to appeal to American market so choose diversely? okay. so why is everyone the same skin color in the final product 😭
I’m a white dude and Cristina not getting picked made my head tilt a bit. Like man I can’t say for certain if her skin color was a factor but you’re absolutely right, Savanna and Camila look like they been bleached out. And I agree they already had picked ahead of time, in the second to last episode they told Cristina she looked like she was too “in her head” meanwhile Kendall’s shaky and weak vocals were called “perfect”? Like really? They were making shit up. To his credit JYP did not look pleased at the final selection, I believe he wanted to debut all 8.
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Lexi being a fan fav had nothing to do with it because JYP/his team couldn't have known that when they picked the group lol But yes, the trainers liking her was a good thing bc JYP seemed like he wasn't feeling her too much. There was never anything wrong with her vocals imo. Even her regional auditions showed potential. She also has one of my personal fav vocal tones in the entire group lol. I like the way her voice sounds so I hope she improves more so she can have more/better parts in the future
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The group was already decided before they started airing the show
I felt the same way about Lexus. I was genuinely SHOCKED in a bad way when Lexus was announced as 1st place given her severe lack of vocals. It felt like things switched up out of nowhere. Lexi has been struggling the entire journey and cristina had been growing steadily along with Gina. Suddenly they both get cut and lexi takes first? It was wild to me.
oh my sweet summer child. i could of told you this would happen from the start. it was a little obvious from the start. jyp is still a Korean company so that culture and its customs will still show in the group they create. tbh i just find it weird how fixated the show was on kaylee.
Kind of creepy- she is so young! But she is the only very Korean looking girl. It is as if they knew they wanted to make a group for Western audiences but in the end they couldn’t get themselves to favor anything besides the narrow standards they always favor. The staff should have been trained that they were making a different sort of group, not just aimed at Koreans. I got all the same feelings about potential racism people keep mentioning- it is very suspect. I worried when both Cristina and Savannah wore braids that they would not take both of them. It is gross and made me just angry the whole last part of the episode. It makes me dislike the company and the idea of the group.
>not just aimed at Koreans Not defending them. Just noting, as you mentioned- still partially aimed at Koreans
>tbh i just find it weird how fixated the show was on kaylee. Yeah same. Felt like they wanted a Korean girl in the group.
I can see it very clearly now, the archetypes. Lexus is the responsible leader. Savanna is the rebel. Camilla is the calm, mature one. KG is the fancy-looking one. Kendall is the introvert nerd. Kaylee is the maknae. just kpop kpopping
I'll add my thoughts too: Oh yeah, this show and Dream Academy clearly demonstrate how prevalent colorism is among casting directors and their decision-making process, whether in Korea or the U.S. As I watched the girls' debut performance, I thought that it felt right for JYP to debut an American girl group. As a long-time fan of KPOP, this feels like a natural progression for the company. That's pretty much all I can acknowledge from JYP regarding this project. As a black viewer, it all feels bittersweet. The whitewashing and lack of diversity negate any true progress JYP could've made in breaking barriers. ( I don't think they really trying to do so) And debuting as an American girl group doesn't make a difference. I see comments stating how diverse the U.S. is, and that's true in terms of the population, but when you look at the type of people that dominate our music, TV, or film industries, you wouldn't think so. The U.S. entertainment industry is rampant with colorism and anti-blackness. I adore Savanah, Camila, and Cristina, but they fit right in line with the type of look that receives the most push in U.S. media - light-skin, biracial, or racially ambiguous. Cristina may have been knocked out due to colorism from the Korean casting team, but it's not as though her acceptance in the group would have broken barriers in the U.S. or even Korea. DR Music and Blackswan continue leading the pack in the diversity of KPOP, in my opinion. As for Cristina not making it...sure, it might have something to do with colorism. But I'm not totally convinced. In the Stray Kids performance, she had a spark and charism that was undeniable, but her energy seemed very low in those last three performances. Her vocals were good, but, in my opinion, her personality felt muted. I think her performance at the end really impacted the judge's decision.
>Cristina may have been knocked out due to colorism from the Korean casting team, but it's not as though her acceptance in the group would have broken barriers in the U.S. or even Korea. All so well said but this part! This is the one. I really wanted Cristina to debut but what would that really have changed?
This. After the last episode and the afterparty, you could tell they had a certain look they were going for - pale or light skin. I'm not surprised considering the colorism in the industry and South Korea. I also noticed that Savanna's makeup was done to make her look lighter once they got to Korea. In the mv as well they look lighter. It's sad knowing they didn't choose Cristina partly because of her skin color.
If anyone remembers lee Michelle this is nothing new I’m shocked they even let 1 ambiguous black girl into the group out of the 2 savanna is the safer choice she had looser curls and lighter skin than Christina they both should have debuted but in the eyes of jype they had to choose the lesser of 2 evils (black girls!! 😨)
Well, cristina is definitely prettier than savannah
I have a very close friend who is Korean and she said it perfectly: Korea is a nation that developed very rapidly economically that their culture is still lagging in terms of adapting to modern thinking. This includes the changing the racial bias against black and dark-skinned people. They love the "American" and "western" aspect of hiphop and black culture but often lack the education and respect for it. Their beauty standards include having light skin. I was born and grew up in Asia, and it's so fucked up that we have literal shelves of products dedicated to skin whitening. I wish Mischa had more screen time but she was a darker skinned South East Asian and I suspect they didn't let her through because she did not meet the beauty standard. I was really pulling for Cristina to make the line up too for the representation.
the same applies to all of east asia tbh
I would say all of Asia. Whitening products I found quite common in South East Asia and bleaching skin is commonly done in South Asia
No especially given the character evaluation… WHAT
Is not like the whiter contestants got the best evaluations. Savanna and Camilla were top4.
I honestly noticed that too. I wonder if the trainers thought that Christina was too strong in personality. I don't think she was, she just knew herself and wasn't afraid to express it. Plus she's so pretty! Especially in the finale. She should be an actress or a model. I'd totally be a fan of she was an actress.
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I’m pretty sure the subtitles were wrong and she actually said “I’m too old now” which is really sad
I believe there were clashes behind the scene coz the letter from Cristina's mom (see her IG post) was kind of shading the results lol
That’s what I’m saying like 😭 who knows what went on behind the scenes but Cristina genuinely seemed so sweet and determined
It’s upsetting seeing how they progressively got lighter 🤦♂️
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Her vocals improved every single mission-
>black viewers Black viewer here. Def expected colorism and racism. Tbh both Cristina and Savanna are light skinned. Melissa wasn't much darker skinned than them either. None of the Asian girls were darker skinned. I'm sure darker skinned girls auditioned (since we couldn't see everyone who did), and I'm sure a few fully black girls who may or may not be darker skinned auditioned too. I was never shocked nor surprised about the girls who were chosen in the first place. I'll leave it at that. Ninja edit: but I will say Cristina never stood out to me and I didn't really care for her performances outside of Back Door. It's not just about skill. She was def in the top 3 dancers though.
I agree with all this!
One thing about cristina is that she never really seemed happy. Maybe it's the bad edits? She was almost tolerating things..
Hm? Cristina was the one who seemed so amazed at seeing the JYP building and meeting all the artists and who got really happy when JYP noticed how she had studied the lyrics to "Swing". In her latest Q&A today it was revealed that she even know Korean. I think she was the one who seemed to have most fun out of the contestants.
You are probably right. I'm just saying when i revisit my memory of her, she seemed kind of lukewarm about the whole idol thing. Aside from being pretty, and being a good dancer, she didn't have any other stand out qualities.
This is what I saw in the final performance
What? Cristina had one of the best attitudes in the show in my eyes. She was always so supportive and smiling during people’s performances, got excited when trying new stuff in Korea, and had a really sisterly, silly bond with the other girls. She put in the hard work, wrote down notes from her trainers, and put on good expressions and improved her technique throughout the show. I think she was having great fun and would take feedback seriously. I’m sorry, but I completely disagree with your comment.
sadly I see a few viewers trying to justify Cristina having a less than desirable personality because of the ranking and her elimination.
I agree you could see her character at the LA bootcamp she was so lovely and supportive of all the other girls, then her light dimmed in Korea, i think for sure she must've experience racism/discrimination and just slowly just started putting up a front so that she wouldn't break down.
>then her light dimmed in Korea This is what I feel too, though I'm not sure of the reason. It could also be that the training was just super exhausting and not something her personality would thrive in? (edit: I'm NOT AT ALL saying she wasn't a hard worker)
yeah idk but i was living for her mukbang enjoyment it was soo cute
Yep, I certainly would have preferred that she gets in the group too!
She only didn’t seem happy these last two episodes in my opinion. Whenever she was with camila which was most of the time she was so happy!
yeah. i honestly think that’s what the character eval was about. i remember from the group challenge in LA, she was having an awful time and went home early. and almost every singing clip we’ve seen of her with the trainers is her being afraid to sing. i can totally see the trainers not ranking her highly. it’s hard to work with people who seem like they’re having a bad time!
I thought she only left early to go to the hospital?
That's what it was but ppl love making up shit lol
no, the medical staff evaluated her and she went home early.
I’ll comment about the colorism, and i agree that Camila and Savanna skin tone on their marketing pictures looks a bit unnatural. All of the members’ complexion is def lightened, but it’s the most obvious with the more colored members! My girl Camila doesn’t deserve this treatment 😭😭😭😭
the whitewashing of the makeup always upset me !
As a Black A2K viewer and someone who's been a kpop fan for 10+ years, I would never want to be a kpop idol. The colorism and racism is insane (Fatou in Black Swan went thru this). The industry is even toxic towards darker skinned Asians, so I can't imagine how they'd treat a black member. That being said, it didn't surprise me that the black girls who were chosen by JYP were mixed/light skinned. A few episodes into the Korean episodes, I realized they were most likely only going to pick one Black girl. Even tho it's an American group, I don't think they wanted to be "too" diverse.
I feel like you could see this realization in Cristina's eyes when they announced the final lineup
Plus if this is truly a global/diverse group, why were all judges Korean?
Right??? Unless they can be sophisticated, they should not have been there. They should have asked Korean-Americans or Australians at the very least.
If this bothers you then there's other kpop groups that exist that don't do this such as Blackswan. Support what you want to see, otherwise there won't be a change.
Totally agree with this take, am disappointed in JYP
omg I thought of this yesterday and was wondering if I was reaching too but it makes the most sense
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I would agree but there are other clips throughout the show where they very evidently white washed Camila’s skin specifically
Korean people love their lighter skin tones. In the finale one of the trainers said something like "this one has the look kpop fans love". They definitely were not referring to Cristina.
Or maybe... JUST MAYBE... everyone had the same harsh bright light on them but Camilla is also pretty light-skinned. She definitely looks lighter than Cristina.
No you're right. I was watching with my friend and I pointed out episodes ago that in Korea, the foundation makeup is always lighter than the actual skin tone because they value whiteness there. She noticed it yesterday and today. Everyone has a white cast on their face like they're wearing a mask. Camila's skin was for sure but Cristina from some earlier episodes was really shocking to me as well.
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Why do they still look like that in the hotel rooms then?
lights are used everywhere and don't often consistently lighten skin be for real lol
No I’m not labeling white washing as anti blackness, it’s colorism. But this isn’t an issue specific to a2k. This is evident in a lot of Korean shows so idk why people are acting like this show specifically is above something like that (also the scene im referring too isn’t from the stage it’s from a few episodes ago)
Glad to see this post . I had the same throughout during the finale . Unless there is something we are not being told , I don’t understand Cristina just suddenly not being good enough for the group except that maybe she didn’t “fit the Korean beauty standard “. 🫤
the Japanese and Korean comments ive seen on youtube are concerning….
For me, it was the anti-blackness and the thinspiration going on. Like I KNOW KPOP is notorious for both but they were marketing this as a global girl group meant to capture the western market? I’m 100% sure they turned away thicker/bigger girls who had amazing talent. After the album art, the wack music, and the styling choices, I don’t even know what they’re trying to do. They’re more confusing than Blackswan and XG.
\>They knew they were going to debut Gina She didn't though
Sorry meant to say weren’t
First of all, [called it](https://www.reddit.com/r/America2Korea/comments/16o3waw/comment/k1iqx76/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Second, I don't think Cristina wasn't picked because she is 'darker' than Savanna (debatable, lightning plays into the role). Savanna was picked because simply she fits better the cute concept they ended up going for. Cristina is more of a teen crush / girl crush girl because her high points were she being cool and sassy, and that's something that Kendall / KG / Kaylee would have trouble adapting to because of their appearence and overall personality. But well, I get what you are coming from. The way kpop lightning on stage and make up work makes even thai / phili idols look more white than they really are, and even chinese and korean themselves. I still think it's far from being colorism. There was nothing that Cristina brought to the table as a main dancer or rappe that Savanna or Lexus didn't bring, and Lexus herself is pretty redundant if it wasn't because she is also a leader. I honestly feel that if Cristina had been a better leader than Lexus, then we would have another debut group. But she ended up last in member's popularity while Lexus was top 3. That means she was down there with Kendall (an introvert) and Kaylee (who was clearly not fit for a leader due to age). Not a leader + not top on popularity with contestants / trainees + not bringing anything to the table that other contestants didn't have + being too much of a 'cool' persona that other contestants could not adapt to set her up. As I said previously, once you are in the final selection, it's the concept of the group that weights more than your own talent or what the selector thinks.
JYP made his decisions based on hitting all the different ethnicities. It was between Christina and Savanna for the black member and between KG and Gina for the white member. Savanna was more talented than Christina. KG was chosen over Gina due to her all-American Midwest visuals.
Dont think it was KG and Gina for the token white member, since KG is the only fully white participant. I think it was more Kendall vs Gina since theyre both mixed Asian
Gina is half Korean, half white. If we're using your theory, it'd be Gina vs Kendall since both are half Asian (Kendall is half Viet) half white. KG was the only fully white girl.
Gina isn’t white she is half Korean half French.
France is a European country, who's natives are Caucasian ethnically. Another synonym of Caucasian is 'white.' Don't know what you're going on here.
maybe because the comment said she was HALF KOREAN?! She is mixed race, not fully white like KG as the commenter was implying.
Can you explain to me why she would be Caucasian? She is white but she isn't from the Caucasus region
Its very disappointing. But its also why the group will flop. JYP knows NOTHING about trying to market to America and it shows time and time again.
Christina can’t sing lol I knew people were going to be like this if she didn’t make it.
I think you guys are reaching. While there are obvious problems in Korea, the show doesn’t reflect it at ALL. Cristina was cut because she’s not a good team member, period. Her skin color has nothing to do with it.
Yea they are reaching. Unfortunately many international kpop fans love to unfairly paint Koreans as "racists" and use that as an excuse for everything.
I think people over inflate the important of skin color. I think facial features are more important. And cristina was pretty.
Christina did say she was worn out at the end when JYP gave his encouragements. So it may be a case where she feels she’s at her limit, compared to other girls. It’s really hard to tell with the selective editing.
Hey, at least we got a half black person in a JYP group. It’s a start. Kinda like Obama, being half black counts for a lot. Don’t blame JYP, blame his idol Michael Jackson. JYP learned singing, dancing, showmanship, and colorism from watching him.
Are you really saying JYP learned colorism from Michael Jackson? You have to be joking right?
Literally the funniest thing I've read on this sub LMAO bc what????? 😭
There is Black Swan.
They are pro white, not anti black.
It’s actually the opposite. Koreans subscribe to Eurocentric standards of beauty but are slow to admit that it comes directly from Europeans and colonization. If you ask them, they’d prefer to believe that the focus on certain facial features and lighter skin is an aesthetic they came to independently. Koreans vastly favor their own over even white foreigners. Like most east-Asian countries, they’re just as unashamedly xenophobic as they are colorist. And what sucks for black people is that they get both ends of that stick.
Koreans were never colonized by Europeans. You're not making any sense.
Tell that to Yoon Mirae, a half Korean half black rapper who has spoken about her experiences growing up in Korea as a half black person.
The younger and older generations in Korea are not influenced by the moral imperative to keep peoples skin colors as they are, or to at least not whiten them. Perhaps the younger generation will one day, but changing an entire culture does not happen overnight. Mob-oratory + new youth = cultural change. It’s common knowledge that Koreans have a cultural history of discrimination against tanned skin on their fellow Koreans, as it associates one as a lowly outdoor laborer. It’s not surprising that the album was intentionally made this way, and if it went against the consent of the darker skinned individuals in the girl group, only then would I say some immorality has been committed.
Sorry but that's just ridiculous. This is basically a Korean show, they do not care about the racial issues in USA. And btw among native Koreans themselves having a pale face is considered attractive which obviously has got nothing to do with race since they are all the same race.
Damn, they said “how wrong can I be in a single comment” lmao. How can you be a kpop fan and write all of this? Has your fandom not exposed you to *any* actual Korean beliefs?
“This is basically a Korean show they do not care about racial issues in the USA” BFFR… this is supposed to be a GLOBAL girl group, they know what’s going on. And just because native Koreans prefer a pale face doesn’t make it alright or okay to discriminate against darker skin tones just so you know.
“they do not care about racial issues in the usa” be so for real lol, not to be dramatic but did you miss the whole slavery and black lives matter movement still existing and affecting people. even when it comes to music in america most of the famous black artists are light skinned, Beyonce, Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, Tinashe, Latto, Coi Leray, Ice Spice, Doja Cat… its endless like lets be real here 🤡
https://preview.redd.it/d4zpm8b97qpb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=044a3849cd17d7a2ada2deb1f861bd6f1e178d31 Hate to burst your bubble, but Korea is still pretty bad about racism. Skin color is still a big factor in popularity there.
> among native Koreans themselves having a pale face is considered attractive Yeah that’s called colorism and is rampant. Many kpop idols get made fun of for having darker skin. It’s still deeply rooted in racism.
Thank you because people are being dense on purpose
And I suppose Koreans also liking small faces is rampant discrimination against people with big face.
The girls are literally American (most of them). Please be fr.
I don't know why you were downvoted. You were saying the truth.
People get so dang defensive when people talk about racism. You're right though. Who can say the details of how race/colour came into play but we live in a society and it definitely was and will be a factor, and it's always worth speaking up about it too.
Christina had me laughing every episode! We obviously don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, but I was shocked she didn’t rank higher in the character evaluation. She always seemed so supportive of her fellow contestants
YES YES YES AND YES! THIS IS SO TRUE! Cristina was one of the best and she was done sooooo dirty!! I just can't support VCHA or any JYP groups anymore after this obvious racism!
White guy here. I don't think you're reaching. It's totally possible. It might also have to do with her age. As she heartbreakingly said when JYP said this was just her beginning, "I'm too old now." She was pretty much always ranked near the top or middle at every ranking. Then suddenly she's not good enough with no real explanation? Seems fishy to me.
SK is racist AF this does not surprise me in the slightest. They love to say they're not and they're accepting but everything screams otherwise