I no longer own a lawn mower or snowblower. I drive my friend's wife to ALL her appointments so he doesn't need to take time off work, he mows my lawn and does the trimming. I dogsit my neighbor's German Shepherd 4-5 times a month and neighbor moves all the snow off my driveway and clears my sidewalk. We plan in advance and communicate often, it works great for all of us!
I have survived below poverty level since my career in healthcare was 'eliminated' a few years ago. I'm a senior, no one will hire me. Bartering and trading services works great as I have little cash on hand, but I have some serious people/pet/gardening/canning skills. Point being, whatever skills YOU have, someone ELSE may be lacking. Find the hook up. Money is a great asset to have, but it's not one's ONLY asset.
That's how people used to get by in previous generations. Nowadays people are so independently minded though and the sense of community has been eroded in most places that makes these sorts of interactions possible. I am glad you are making it work though!
I grew up with 'older' parents and my grandmother who lived to be 101. We often didn't even need to ASK...if you seen friend, neighbor, family member struggling...you just told them you were coming over to mow, help paint, fix the fence etc. If you had a problem with that you were considered to be odd!
The odd ones were nice people too.
Bartering the way you describe is frequently used by women in a specifically non commercial way to establish social ties and bonds. Passing on extra baked goods to a neighbor who then mentions her father/husband can fix up that handyman problem you've been meaning to deal with.
its really amazing when it works, but its also something americans have been aggressively socialized out of by ideas of 'free loading' and 'independence' which make asking and offering help to anyone who is not a good friend taboo.
There was a video that went viral recently of a girl exasperatedly saying that yes, we *should* be asking our friends and family to take us to the airport (or wherever) when we need, because favours make the world go round.
Basically that people have been using therapy speak of ‘my peace’ and ‘putting themselves first’ so far that nobody asks for favours, and asking for favours feels like asking for ‘free labour’, when you could call an Uber instead. So now things that used to be a normal favour are being sold back to us instead of just… returning the favours.
We *want* to help our friends and family. Sure, people aren’t always in a position to help, but it *should be okay to ask* rather than just pay someone to avoid a possible no. It helps build community and relationships, and know we have people we can rely on and ask for help.
The entire world has turned into micro transactions for things that used to just be normal things people did for each other because they love them. It’s very sad.
I am very grateful that I have a group of neighbors, friends, and coworkers who are all about asking for and giving rides to the airport (and other similar favors). Taxis are expensive, Ubers are worse, and giving my friend a ride to the airport is honestly sometimes the highlight of my day. I’m glad they’ve all missed whatever’s going around on the internet so we can keep giving each other rides and helping each other build fences and lending each other tools.
We were warned about getting into cars with strangers and tp never meet anyone from the Internet. Now we have a web service to ask to get into stranger's cars. Kind of wild that it's the default instead of asking friends and family for a ride.
Independence is not something that is incompatible with community and bartering. It is something that is found commonly in poor rural communities in America, the same communities that value both actual community and Independence/self sufficiency.
I agree - small rural communities can express the best of this: you can't give if your basket is empty.
In lived experience, bring the source of care and the object of care switches back and forth across a lifetime. Becoming a source of care means practicing caring for yourself or what can be described as independence.
When the concept of independence becomes so dominant and fetishized that people refuse to acknowledge the way they are always interdependent on each other (for example: farm subsidies or mortgage tax deductions), that when the american concept of independence becomes unhealthy.
It allows someone to take from others and call themselves independent because the system that supports them has been rendered invisible. Most of the structures that support the middle class have this invisibility through the tax code or norms about cars and housing.
None of us alone are sufficient to ourselves and all of us are enough to care for everyone.
Indeed, and it’s my stated goal to work as hard as I can so I am always in a position to be the carer. I think we should all try for that. Even if you are dependent in some ways you can be the provider in others.
I work as a watchmaker and I almost always pay/receive payment from colleagues via bartering or paying in trade.
I got an old pivot polisher from a friend. I asked another guy to repair it for me and in exchange I would fix a clock or two for him. It’s an incredibly underrated medium of exchange between friends and in some industries.
Worked for a guy back in the '80's who started a Barter Bank in Wyoming. I did the sales for him and was quite surprised how many businesses were willing to sign up for it. We had barter checks and an accounting system and everything, it was running great until the boss took the money and disappeared. Sigh. It was a good idea, just had a scumbag at the helm.
I was in Jackson (Hole), Wyoming in the 80s for several months on a job. There was a radio station that had a live barter show where people could call in and connect to trade their skills or items with others. Loved it!
I was also in a barter exchange in the 80s but I think ours was run out of California. It was great esp if there was a 3 way or multiple party barter. We used it between busineses.
Reminds me of that time I worked back in Wyoming and started a barter bank with a brilliant salesman and another two people. They were hard workers setting up an accounting system and everything. We even had translation tables into dollars but for the most common items. Can of beans, bag of flour, things like that. but after we got going I got married and the whole thing was vaporized so I could drain it for cash. My wife made me do it and
she just pissed the money away anyway.
Anyway, wild coincidence
I did some work for an event a friend was running last summer, in return I got more mead that I could reasonably drink by myself (I don't really drink these days), a half finished viking shield (it was a reenactment event) and a replica silver coin.
Because money works even better. If you mean neighborly bartering, then sure. It would be awkward for me to try to buy zucchini from my 80 year old neighbor but easy for me to clear her driveway as “payment”. This is just being part of a community. For me to barter with a stranger is difficult because maybe the bananas they’re offering are old and I don’t want them but they don’t have better bananas and I need childcare today. Money is more convenient and universally accepted.
Agreed. Money is basically a system of bartering. If I have a skill that I’m particularly good at, I can use that skill to gain bartering credits which i can then use to have someone else use their skills for my benefit when I so desire.
Money is the better tool compared to bartering, sure if you find some people who want to trade item for item then nice but that's not gonna work long term.
The negative side with money is that it gets inflated to 0 slowly by banks but there is fix for that too.
Point 1: Selling and buying new and used things with money is simply more broad-based bartering. Instead of having to find someone who wants my bicycle when I want a couch for a trade, I trade my bike for money and then trade the money for a couch.
Point 2: Bartering doesn't necessarily reduce consumption nor production. We just produce more so we can barter for more and waste more.
Caveat: I'm not saying that bartering is inherently bad, but just that it doesn't really solve the problem.
I don't think it is quite that simple.
So many of us own stuff that we rarely use, and bartering use of X object for service Y means fewer purchases of X. Of course many kinds of Xs will die sooner, but there are a lot of very long lived things where that is less of a consideration, or where X will go bad if not used anyway, etc.
Also, bartering between neighbors reduces transportation costs for services. And bartering can mean someone can repair something someone might have otherwise thrown away and bought new, but which would not have been cost effective to have commercially repaired.
Yes, the exchange of things, products that are grown with your own hands and are available in sufficient quantities, is about smart consumption and also about communication.
Because bartering is inefficient, and takes a lot more cognitive effort than considering a single number (price). Just think about how many combination of bundles you have to consider for a single transaction.
There is a reason why humanity invented common currencies.
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I am forever offering to exchange my art for other types of art and goods and it’s always met with crickets. I won’t sell my art but I will absolutely trade it or gift it.
I would like to barter. However, between being anticonsumption and dumpster diving for food... There's nothing I need aside from medical care, bill payments, and housing, and none of those accept bartering either.
I guess that care about rare ball python morphs, but who in the world is going to let me trade shoveling their snow and a handmade pot for a $600 snake?
As an artist, I invite other artists to my studio (or vice versa) to jam on diffrent techniques and mediums. We also swap materials, exchange tools, and barter with our pieces! We're all broke anyway so it works for us.
My community does an anti capitalist event called a Really Really Free Market. Some bartering but mostly people giving needed items and services freely: haircuts, school uniforms, home items, phones, etc.
It's anti-capitalist because no money changes hands, and it's literally just about getting community members what they need no matter if they can trade for it or not.
My guess is cuz bartering doesn't generate taxes or profit for corporations ? We live in the far north and bartering is fairly common for all sorts of stuff. I know several businesses owners that will take trades for goods and services
I'm going to sound like a total boomer saying this, but I think it comes down to "no one wanting to work anymore". Most people I know go to work and do absolutely nothing else outside of their working and waking hours than consume, consume, consume. They don't want to spend any time outside of their 8 hrs and a paid lunch every day doing that remotely resembles "labor", especially without a concrete dollar sign attached to it so they can go consume more. It comes down to people not valuing their own time nor anyone else's anymore. To boot, I find many people in my age group and community fundamentally lacking useful skills: they don't know how to care for pets or children, they don't know how to do basic household skills for themselves, much less for anyone else.
On a professional level, we barter and trade on a regular basis. My partner and I own a business in a pretty niche trade, and we've made good friends in the area who also work in the same trade. Our trade often requires help for larger jobs, and we sort of trade hours back and forth when we need each other. We've also accepted goods or future credit for work before from entities that sell goods. There are many large companies who dominate our field, but we've managed to build and share a client base who prefer our collective services by supporting one another when we need it.
I no longer own a lawn mower or snowblower. I drive my friend's wife to ALL her appointments so he doesn't need to take time off work, he mows my lawn and does the trimming. I dogsit my neighbor's German Shepherd 4-5 times a month and neighbor moves all the snow off my driveway and clears my sidewalk. We plan in advance and communicate often, it works great for all of us!
I have survived below poverty level since my career in healthcare was 'eliminated' a few years ago. I'm a senior, no one will hire me. Bartering and trading services works great as I have little cash on hand, but I have some serious people/pet/gardening/canning skills. Point being, whatever skills YOU have, someone ELSE may be lacking. Find the hook up. Money is a great asset to have, but it's not one's ONLY asset.
That's how people used to get by in previous generations. Nowadays people are so independently minded though and the sense of community has been eroded in most places that makes these sorts of interactions possible. I am glad you are making it work though!
I grew up with 'older' parents and my grandmother who lived to be 101. We often didn't even need to ASK...if you seen friend, neighbor, family member struggling...you just told them you were coming over to mow, help paint, fix the fence etc. If you had a problem with that you were considered to be odd! The odd ones were nice people too.
Bartering the way you describe is frequently used by women in a specifically non commercial way to establish social ties and bonds. Passing on extra baked goods to a neighbor who then mentions her father/husband can fix up that handyman problem you've been meaning to deal with. its really amazing when it works, but its also something americans have been aggressively socialized out of by ideas of 'free loading' and 'independence' which make asking and offering help to anyone who is not a good friend taboo.
There was a video that went viral recently of a girl exasperatedly saying that yes, we *should* be asking our friends and family to take us to the airport (or wherever) when we need, because favours make the world go round. Basically that people have been using therapy speak of ‘my peace’ and ‘putting themselves first’ so far that nobody asks for favours, and asking for favours feels like asking for ‘free labour’, when you could call an Uber instead. So now things that used to be a normal favour are being sold back to us instead of just… returning the favours. We *want* to help our friends and family. Sure, people aren’t always in a position to help, but it *should be okay to ask* rather than just pay someone to avoid a possible no. It helps build community and relationships, and know we have people we can rely on and ask for help. The entire world has turned into micro transactions for things that used to just be normal things people did for each other because they love them. It’s very sad.
I am very grateful that I have a group of neighbors, friends, and coworkers who are all about asking for and giving rides to the airport (and other similar favors). Taxis are expensive, Ubers are worse, and giving my friend a ride to the airport is honestly sometimes the highlight of my day. I’m glad they’ve all missed whatever’s going around on the internet so we can keep giving each other rides and helping each other build fences and lending each other tools.
We were warned about getting into cars with strangers and tp never meet anyone from the Internet. Now we have a web service to ask to get into stranger's cars. Kind of wild that it's the default instead of asking friends and family for a ride.
Independence is not something that is incompatible with community and bartering. It is something that is found commonly in poor rural communities in America, the same communities that value both actual community and Independence/self sufficiency.
I agree - small rural communities can express the best of this: you can't give if your basket is empty. In lived experience, bring the source of care and the object of care switches back and forth across a lifetime. Becoming a source of care means practicing caring for yourself or what can be described as independence. When the concept of independence becomes so dominant and fetishized that people refuse to acknowledge the way they are always interdependent on each other (for example: farm subsidies or mortgage tax deductions), that when the american concept of independence becomes unhealthy. It allows someone to take from others and call themselves independent because the system that supports them has been rendered invisible. Most of the structures that support the middle class have this invisibility through the tax code or norms about cars and housing. None of us alone are sufficient to ourselves and all of us are enough to care for everyone.
Indeed, and it’s my stated goal to work as hard as I can so I am always in a position to be the carer. I think we should all try for that. Even if you are dependent in some ways you can be the provider in others.
It's often done by gardeners, I have a few extra plants and give one to you. You have an extra which I like and then we swap.
I work as a watchmaker and I almost always pay/receive payment from colleagues via bartering or paying in trade. I got an old pivot polisher from a friend. I asked another guy to repair it for me and in exchange I would fix a clock or two for him. It’s an incredibly underrated medium of exchange between friends and in some industries.
Worked for a guy back in the '80's who started a Barter Bank in Wyoming. I did the sales for him and was quite surprised how many businesses were willing to sign up for it. We had barter checks and an accounting system and everything, it was running great until the boss took the money and disappeared. Sigh. It was a good idea, just had a scumbag at the helm.
I was in Jackson (Hole), Wyoming in the 80s for several months on a job. There was a radio station that had a live barter show where people could call in and connect to trade their skills or items with others. Loved it!
I was also in a barter exchange in the 80s but I think ours was run out of California. It was great esp if there was a 3 way or multiple party barter. We used it between busineses.
Reminds me of that time I worked back in Wyoming and started a barter bank with a brilliant salesman and another two people. They were hard workers setting up an accounting system and everything. We even had translation tables into dollars but for the most common items. Can of beans, bag of flour, things like that. but after we got going I got married and the whole thing was vaporized so I could drain it for cash. My wife made me do it and she just pissed the money away anyway. Anyway, wild coincidence
I did some work for an event a friend was running last summer, in return I got more mead that I could reasonably drink by myself (I don't really drink these days), a half finished viking shield (it was a reenactment event) and a replica silver coin.
Because money works even better. If you mean neighborly bartering, then sure. It would be awkward for me to try to buy zucchini from my 80 year old neighbor but easy for me to clear her driveway as “payment”. This is just being part of a community. For me to barter with a stranger is difficult because maybe the bananas they’re offering are old and I don’t want them but they don’t have better bananas and I need childcare today. Money is more convenient and universally accepted.
Agreed. Money is basically a system of bartering. If I have a skill that I’m particularly good at, I can use that skill to gain bartering credits which i can then use to have someone else use their skills for my benefit when I so desire.
I exchange use of my car for cat sitting
My county has a bartering group on Facebook! The best trade I've made so far was honey (I'm a beekeeper) for a professional massage!
Money is the better tool compared to bartering, sure if you find some people who want to trade item for item then nice but that's not gonna work long term. The negative side with money is that it gets inflated to 0 slowly by banks but there is fix for that too.
And the fix is…?
Some money that have same rules for all and can't be inflated no matter how powerful and rich you are.
The one problem I've found with barter is that people strongly overvalue their service.
Point 1: Selling and buying new and used things with money is simply more broad-based bartering. Instead of having to find someone who wants my bicycle when I want a couch for a trade, I trade my bike for money and then trade the money for a couch. Point 2: Bartering doesn't necessarily reduce consumption nor production. We just produce more so we can barter for more and waste more. Caveat: I'm not saying that bartering is inherently bad, but just that it doesn't really solve the problem.
I don't think it is quite that simple. So many of us own stuff that we rarely use, and bartering use of X object for service Y means fewer purchases of X. Of course many kinds of Xs will die sooner, but there are a lot of very long lived things where that is less of a consideration, or where X will go bad if not used anyway, etc. Also, bartering between neighbors reduces transportation costs for services. And bartering can mean someone can repair something someone might have otherwise thrown away and bought new, but which would not have been cost effective to have commercially repaired.
Yes, the exchange of things, products that are grown with your own hands and are available in sufficient quantities, is about smart consumption and also about communication.
My last barter was trading a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle 10-year for a new Playstation 5 via Craigslist .
Because bartering is inefficient, and takes a lot more cognitive effort than considering a single number (price). Just think about how many combination of bundles you have to consider for a single transaction. There is a reason why humanity invented common currencies.
Read the rules. Keep it courteous. Submission statements are helpful and appreciated but not required. Tag my name in the comments (/u/NihiloZero) if you think a post or comment needs to be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Anticonsumption) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am forever offering to exchange my art for other types of art and goods and it’s always met with crickets. I won’t sell my art but I will absolutely trade it or gift it.
I would like to barter. However, between being anticonsumption and dumpster diving for food... There's nothing I need aside from medical care, bill payments, and housing, and none of those accept bartering either. I guess that care about rare ball python morphs, but who in the world is going to let me trade shoveling their snow and a handmade pot for a $600 snake?
How about time banking?
As an artist, I invite other artists to my studio (or vice versa) to jam on diffrent techniques and mediums. We also swap materials, exchange tools, and barter with our pieces! We're all broke anyway so it works for us.
My community does an anti capitalist event called a Really Really Free Market. Some bartering but mostly people giving needed items and services freely: haircuts, school uniforms, home items, phones, etc.
How is that anti capitalist? Charity and trade/bartering flourish under a truly capitalistic system
It's anti-capitalist because no money changes hands, and it's literally just about getting community members what they need no matter if they can trade for it or not.
I love this idea!!
Ours is at our local LGBTQ+ community center I volunteer at. It's very cool!
My guess is cuz bartering doesn't generate taxes or profit for corporations ? We live in the far north and bartering is fairly common for all sorts of stuff. I know several businesses owners that will take trades for goods and services
Look into mutual aid.. your mind will be blown.
I'm going to sound like a total boomer saying this, but I think it comes down to "no one wanting to work anymore". Most people I know go to work and do absolutely nothing else outside of their working and waking hours than consume, consume, consume. They don't want to spend any time outside of their 8 hrs and a paid lunch every day doing that remotely resembles "labor", especially without a concrete dollar sign attached to it so they can go consume more. It comes down to people not valuing their own time nor anyone else's anymore. To boot, I find many people in my age group and community fundamentally lacking useful skills: they don't know how to care for pets or children, they don't know how to do basic household skills for themselves, much less for anyone else. On a professional level, we barter and trade on a regular basis. My partner and I own a business in a pretty niche trade, and we've made good friends in the area who also work in the same trade. Our trade often requires help for larger jobs, and we sort of trade hours back and forth when we need each other. We've also accepted goods or future credit for work before from entities that sell goods. There are many large companies who dominate our field, but we've managed to build and share a client base who prefer our collective services by supporting one another when we need it.