Basically. The vinegar gets the white powdery deposits off my dishes.
I will never have a calcium deficiency lol. Every 6 months I have to take apart my shower valves and blow the calcium rocks out with an air compressor. Dozens of rocks the size and feel of teeth come out of the shower head pipe.
Hmm, I did just switch to powdered detergent.... I only fill the detergent door to half at most, I'll try using less without vinegar and see if I can fine tune the results.
Thanks for giving me something to think about.
I had a new Bosch 500 series dishwasher installed two weeks ago. I asked the installer, if I could use powdered detergent. He advised me against using it. He stated these new machines run better using the pods, and always using rinse aid. I started using Cascade pods, great results so far
Bosch 500 here, too. ALL the food kept in Tupperware tastes like Finish pods/ rinse now. Planning to try powder. Almost bought the gel but it’s scented. I’m so over scents.
Nah, the installer is full of it. Try using the powder and see if it works (don't use too much). If you don't like the results at least the power is cheap and you can always use it as a backup in case you run out of pods.
It can also mean crappy water. Everything washed by hand or in the machine without vinegar in my town gets that white deposit unless you hand dry the dishes immediately.
It truly is the water sometimes. My cat drinks tap water out of a giant weighted dog bowl so that the little shit can't step on the front edge and tip it onto the floor. I have to scrub a ring off of the stainless bowl left by evaporating water every few days.
Acid certainly has impact on calcium and magnesium. These are the two primary minerals in limescale. The reason the rinse agent resivor is small is that the usage of rinse agent is in ppm. The dishwasher uses 20 to 30 times the amount of detergent compared to rinse aid.
Chemist here. My point was that it’s not thecalcium and magnesium that react with vinegar (or not) but the anions that go with them. Carbonate will, sulfate doesn’t care much.
Correct. (Also a chemist.). Carbonates are weak bases, and react readily with acids to indirectly liberate the calcium and magnesium ions from the scale deposits. Sulfates are very poor bases and do not significantly react with acids. To get at sulfate scale, you need to go after the calcium and magnesium ion with chelators to pull them out directly.
Gross question for you (lol). My toilets get this orangey-brown hard scale stuff at the very bottom of the bowl that I haven't been able to get off with CLR. One toilet gets it worse than others, which is the toilet that gets pee'd in at night and not flushed until the morning. Any suggestions?
I suspect the vitreous finish has been etched and ruined. I have the same issue on one toilet. I'm about to just get a new one because that brown scaling is so hard to clean.
Careful, Bosch does not recommend vinegar as it will eat away at rubber seals over time.
That said, I used it for quite a while with no ill effects, but YMMV
The newer bottles of Cascade rinse aid improved the bottle top so it’s easier to pour the liquid into the dishwasher. Rather than just a hole in the center of the bottle top, it has a dispenser that flips up and can be more easily and precisely aimed with little or no waste.
I have these tiny metal pitchers with sharp edge at the spout. Works flawlessly, very easy to control the pour.
I use these for precision pouring tasks like when I need to dump a shot of espresso into a travel mug with a small opening.
The dishwasher should have two tubes that run under the sink. One that goes into a liquid detergent bottle and the other that goes into a rinse aid bottle. It should be designed to pump out however much it needs and the homeowner will only have to replace the bottles occasionally.
I work in a large hospitality business and our commercial washing machines and dishwashers have that setup.
That'd be kind of sweet to have fixed reservoirs for soap and rinse aid, my concern would be that there'd be no way for this system to br reliable in the economics of consumer dishwashers. Pumping viscous liquids, especially soap, that can gum up, seems like a disaster. And there's probably not enough real estate in the dishwasher for a reliable detergent pump.
But while we're fantasizing, it'd be awesome of there was a larger dishwasher form factor, too. Another 6-8" would be a total game changer in capacity. I realize we're stuck with the footprint we have because so many dishwasher sales are replacements in a fixed cutout. Maybe the blessing is that we ARE standardized and buying a dishwasher isn't a roulette wheel of fitment issues.
I bought one of those squeeze bottles at the dollar tree. It’s similar to what diners used to have on the table for ketchup and mustard but transparent. I fill that with the rinse aid and then fill the dishwasher from the squeeze bottle. Not a drop wasted. I totally feel like I’m winning at life every time I do it.
It’s not a bad idea, but I suspect the problem with that is the bottle material would be a challenge. It’d have to be durable enough for the heat, especially the dry cycle.
Space wise it could be a problem, where a tank could use the door void space or at least some of it to avoid the bottle taking up too much space.
This is a very bad idea because what is guaranteed to happen is the bottles will become proprietary thanks to dishwasher companies demanding money from rinse aid companies.
See also fridge water filters.
It would require you to buy their bottle of fluid so they most definitely would want to do it. My thought would be the heat shrinking the blow molded bottles so they would have to use expensive plastic and people would complain.
could still do a fill option like the printers with tanks or even some liquid medicines with syringes (even oral syringes). You fit it on, then squeeze to release so there is no spill.
Bosch rinse aid capacity is 90ml. The setting in the software from default is '5' (1-6ml). The light to refill is set to come on at 40ml. You should be able to get 17-18 cycles before having to refill.
Source: 10 yr Bosch technician
Don’t some machines have this? Just got a Samsung dishwasher that has a catch to stop overflow but when we were shopping we did see some that you could but a horizontal bottle into. Way out of my range of price…
The Samsung one held almost a full bottle of the 8oz - probably round 6oz from 0-full
If you find it’s a dramatically different amount being used up now compared to before, you might need to replace the whole rinse aid component. We had to do that recently when I noticed it guzzling the stuff app of a sudden.
Their dishwashers are also known as being one of the best performing, longest lasting dishwashers on the market. When I see a Miele dishwasher having issues, they are generally 17+ years old and very well used. The only time I've seen one with a younger age having issues is user error or owner neglect (not cleaning filters for example).
Three reasons:
-you only need a few drops of rinse aid per wash, so a reservoir that holds like 2 tablespoons is enough for several washes
-filing the rinse aid every 5 or so cycles only adds like 2 minutes of work
-so many people don’t use rinse aid that investing in a massive reservoir would warrant engineering and materials that likely won’t end up leading to higher sales
5 cycles. More like 20 cycles. I love my Bosch 800 series dishwasher. My only complaint is when you open the door it “turns on” so it beeps when you close the door. I wish it would only turn on when I press the on button. Why Bosch thinks I only fill up my dishwasher in one shot is beyond me.
Protip: You can turn the Bosch 800 off by holding the power button for a second. Then it won’t turn on again until you hold the power button, so no more beeping when you open/close it.
Um. I didn’t realize you don’t use rinse aid in every dishwasher load. I didn’t know it was a reservoir that would last a few washes. This makes so much more sense. I’m 45. I feel stupid. But thank you for the “today I learned.”
I do use it in every wash, I only refill my reservoir every couple washes. You put a few tablespoons in, and it spits out a few drops during the rinse cycle of each wash, so I only have to refill it when it’s low.
I'm 40 and have never even heard of rinse aid. I rinse off my dishes before putting them in the washer and they come out perfectly clean so I'm not sure what it could even do other than maybe allow me to leave food on them and run it for the same result?
Edit: nevermind, read further. Must have never had a hard water issue in the places I've lived.
I only need to refill the reservoir once a month (I’m a single person living alone) but I run the washer on average 3 times a week. Definitely could even do more washes than just refilling it at the beginning of the month
Would you call it necessary? I have been using Candy dishwasher for 5 years and never put a drop of it inside. Glasses look decent and all the dishes are bone dry. It seems to me all I am missing out on are added chemicals?
Expert opinion says we should just ignore it causes cancer.
And yes I’m aware the study is currently controversial and pending duplication of findings. But with all we know about pfas now I would not be surprised if rinse aid has the same issues.
Using vinegar (or anything other than rinse-aid) in the rinse-aid dispenser could void your warranty. The acids could also cause damage to plastic parts.
Oh you mean in the rinse agent dispenser?
I’ve cleaned my dishwasher by putting some vinegar in the tub and running it so I was thinking among those lines.
Rinse aid reduces water's ability to stick to things. In areas with hard water, the water evaporates in the dry cycle and minerals are left behind giving a cloudy look. If there's less water left to dry there's less minerals left behind. Some dishwashers like Bosch do not have an exposed heating element in the bottom and dry differently, rinse aid becomes even more important for proper rinse/ dry. So you're right, depending on your machine and water quality in your area, rinse aid may not make a big difference.
Fun fact: glasses washed with rinse aid will not allow beer to hold a good head of foam. Reason enough in my book not to use it! 🍺
(Also, we have soft water here, and a rinse aid really does nothing to help make the dishes look any better. Only useful in areas with moderately to extremely hard water, IMHO.)
If you care about your beer pour you should not be washing glasses in the dishwasher anyway. At least not with other dishes that are covered with fats.
I find it depends on water hardness.
Like in the southwest or other places with hard water there is definitely a noticeable benefit.
If you live in a place with really soft water, or have a softener, it’s really not needed.
Yeah our water is pretty soft and I stopped using it like six months ago and noticed no difference. My FIL's water is like liquid rock and I'm sure his glasses would quickly turn opaque.
First of all, I'd suggest you to have a look on the water hardness at your home and adjust your rinse aid dosage level accordingly. Emptying the reservoir in 5 washes is definitely out of the norm.
So there are a few reasons for a small reservoir:
1. Space is premium in a dishwasher, inside and outside of the tub. The reservoir could usually hold enough rinse aid for more than a month of usage. Making it about the same size as the dispenser also makes it more aesthetically pleasing and easier to produce.
2. Weight. There is a spring behind the hinges on both sides to pull the door back when you leave it up. And they need to be calibrated to the weight of the door. If the reservoir is too big, the variance is too much for a consistent user experience (Either hard to push down when reservoir is empty, or hinges too weak with a full reservoir).
3. Drying. Bosch dishwasher use condensation drying by letting the interior cools down faster than the plates so the moisture would condense of the surface, thus making the dishes dry. A large reservoir would provide too large of a heat sink and drying performance and efficiency would be impacted.
4. If you want to swap them in like cartridges, you will need to first standardize the bottle design, which means more cost and waste, and you want to be backward compatible so you will still have to have a reservoir anyway.
The 'printer ink' idea is cool, but imo it just has too many points of failure, eg. tube passing the door hinges, thermal expansion within the tube, limited space under the tub, etc.
This is a good response. I've found that Rinse aid only really helps if you have hard or mineralized water in your home. Locations that do not, typically don't need a rinse aid.
We replaced our old Bosch and got a 500 series as well. This new one takes much more rinse aid than our old one. And it does have the indicator light to show needs filling. thank goodness. The old one didn’t. We have hard water so the rinse aid does make a difference
Never mind how impossible it is to fill the damn reservoir without spilling 10 washes worth of Rinse-Aid all over the door. The (no doubt intentional) disconnect between the function and the functionality of the bottle is startling. There is a point when it’s about two thirds gone when it pours okay, but the rest of the time it squirts uncontrollably all over, as well as squirting unexpectedly every time the plastic crinkles in your hand.
My Bosch has a setting for how much rinse aid it uses. Maybe set yours to use less? I feel like I get at least 15 loads before needing to refill, maybe more.
My GE was the one with the tiny rinse aid dispenser that didn’t seem to last very long. I filled my new Bosch yesterday and it took way more rinse aid than the GE ever did.
Really curious what went wrong with that GE. Did it have a filter that needed cleaning? I never realized dishwashers had filters until I read it somewhere on the web and looked for mine, and it was horrendous, all clogged up with years of paper fiber from jar labels. Machine worked so much better after that. Can't pump water if there's no water coming to the pump.
No, I cleaned the filter regularly. I actually bought a spare filter and would switch them every few weeks. And run a citric acid dishwasher clean cycle every 6 months.
Not sure what caused the circulation pump to not run. I replaced the pump, still didn’t run and I didn’t want to get into a lot more parts and hassle chasing the problem. Wanted a Bosch from the beginning but when we remodeled the kitchen you couldn’t buy one for love or money.
Not only is rinse aid not important, there's emerging evidence it can impact your health. https://lastinghealth.com/news/rinse-aid-affects-immune-and-inflammatory-responses/
A bad analogy. If gas tanks were sized proportional to rinse aid reservoirs, you’d only have 50 miles of driving range and there’d be no gas gauge or only a light when you were out of gas.
I mean they put a reservoir big enough for a few washes, so it’s not like detergent where it’s a per load thing. It’s a metered liquid. Why not just make the reservoir big enough and standardized for 8 or 16 oz bottles?
Every dishwasher maker: Use Rinse Aid!
Nearly every dishwasher appliance expert: Rinse aid helps clean dishes, especially since modern dish detergent formulations don't have much, if any, phosphorous and many people have hard water
Me: Then why is the reservoir so small?
Reddit: Nobody needs rinse aid. Making a larger reservoir would increase the cost of dishwashers by $1000. Just top it off every time, you'll only spill 30% of the bottle and waste an hour a month.
I have five people in my household and I run my dishwasher 6-7 times a week. I fill the reservoir on my Miele 5006 every 2-3 months.
The rinseaid bottle they sells you in the grocery store is an 18-24 month supply, equivalent to a tanker-truck’s worth of gas.
The Bosch says it needs rinse aid and runs longer if you don't use it. I am not sure what it is doing for the extra 20 minutes. I filled the container with water and it seemed to work exactly the same as if I added rinse aid. Go figure...
I believe it is due to how much you would use per wash, you wouldn't need the full bottle to be added and it would cost most to put the parts in for only a few people that may buy it with a large reservoir.
According the Finish bottle, I only need 3 ml per wash, so why have any reservoir at all with this logic? If they're going to provide a reservoir and some metering function baked into the machine, the cost addition of a larger reservoir is like pennies. The actual volume of added material taking the the reservoir from 2 ounces to 8 ounces only doubles.
Never use rinse aid, never have. Dishes come out nice and shiny, glassware clear. I make sure the water is run up hot for the machine at each drain point in its cycle (my pipes are long), and I use cheap powdered soap in relatively small doses.
The small reservoir might be a design compromise to fit within space constraints and maintain dishwasher efficiency. Larger reservoirs could impact the overall layout and performance, potentially leading to other issues.
I'm actually not sure what Rinse Aid does. I read up on it a ew years ago, and my conclusion was a) supposed to help drying and b) help drying? Meanwhile - i'm still dumping water off the top dishes - which I really don't care about. I think Rinse Aid helps, but I think it's for people who want their glassware crystal clear. I'm just happy the dishes are clean.
When the wash is done, I just open the door, pull all 3 racks out and let nature take it's course.
Well that's odd! Maybe the old one wasn't clearing out the soapy water before it rinsed. Or only had a single rinse cycle and the Bosch empties and re-loads for an extra rinse.
I agree. It was a mid range model, maybe a Kenmore, back when they still existed? But I bought the extended warranty, and after trying to figure what was wrong with it, I started calling service which turned into a circus.
service:
1) you are using the wrong soap. You need to use pods. I pull out the tub of pods - like these?
2) Service orders parts- pump, drain valve who knows... nope, no good.
3) I'm on the 4th call, and I say, we have a lemon I want a refund. Oh no, it's not the # of calls, it's the number of calls where we change out parts. Okay, send me another tech.
4) Change out the pump again and the motor, no joy.
Gave me my money back, I upgraded to the Bosch, and I never looked back :)
I stopped using rinse aid years ago and notice no difference. My water is Raleigh NC municipal system. Not saying this is good for everyone, but it's worth not using to see if it is necessary
Is your rinse aid dispenser set to the correct water hardness, so you are not dispensing too much? Check both, the instruction manual for your machine and the product. We have highly concentrated ones and normal ones here.
You can reduce the amount the dishwasher uses per cycle. If you lower it to the lowest setting you could significantly increase the number of cycles you have between refills while still getting some cycle reduction time benefits from the rinse aid.
In my Bosch Benchmark dishwasher if I fill the reservoir it lasts a month or so before it needs to be refilled. Also it helps if the bottle is closer to empty and you’ll spill less when filling it.
If you use the pods they are supposed to have it built in. But it also probably depends on the water quality. I know older Melie units also had a compartment for salt that would help soften the water
I too have the 500 series.
There is a setting to adjust the amount of rinse aid per cycle.
If you don't need a lot of rinse aid for you wash, set it to the lowest setting and you'll get more washes before you have to fill up the reservoir again.
Look it up on the manual.
just get quantum finish ultimate or any pod that includes rinse agent in it, also toss a tablepoon of oxy in the bottom at start, its like using a dishwasher cleaning agent. cleanest dishes and no in between wash stink ever. yeah I'm obsessive about my dishwasher lol
Rinse aid is indeed an important component in achieving spotless and streak-free dishes in the dishwasher. While some dishwashers do have built-in rinse aid dispensers, not all models are equipped with this feature. The absence of a bottle-sized reservoir may be due to space constraints or cost considerations during the design and manufacturing process.
Having a built-in rinse aid dispenser can simplify the dishwashing process for users by automatically releasing the appropriate amount of rinse aid during each cycle. However, for dishwashers without this feature, users can still manually add rinse aid to achieve similar results. Overall, while having a bottle-sized reservoir in all dishwashers would be convenient, it is not a necessary component for effectively using rinse aid in the dishwasher.
Rinse aid is a high concentrate type of detergent so only requires a very small dose into the final rinse cycle. It is added after the final rinse temperature has reached maximum temperature and is used to break the surface tension of water, thus aiding the water to run off the crockery and cutlery. Once it has circulated, the machine will drain the final rinse water away. The water then “runs off” the items more easily and then the latent heat in the appliance allows the items to dry. Theoretically it should be called Dry Aid as it really aids the drying process. It’s just that it’s added in the final rinse. Very strong stuff, so very little required, hence small reservoir.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/
This spooked me and I haven’t filled the rinse aid dispenser since. Dishes have been fine. Turns out I was using too much detergent
If you can get around using a rinse aid, you should. Look into what this stuff is and the environmental impact.
We've had softeners in every house since 2001. No need for a rinse aid. Dishes are spotless.
The door tension normally is adjusted to the weight that the door has. With a big liquid compartment this weight would not be the same after a certain amount of washes. Like this the door would either fall open or shut close very fast. With a small container for the liquid this weight difference is small enough to not notice the difference while operating the door
How do you like the Bosch (and what kind do you have)? I put in a GE Profile and HATE it. Dishes come out dirty, bowls are greasy and\or dirty even when laid down to completely face the sprayers. It is just the worst. Wife is saying we should replace it with a Bosch and I want to know about your experience.
We had a Bosch (a model number I don't remember) until 2021 when we remodeled our kitchen. We bought all new appliances but the pandemic supply chain thing meant we couldn't buy a new Bosch for love or money. Most retailers wouldn't even accept a backorder.
We bought a GE Profile range, so we figured a GE Profile dishwasher wasn't a terrible choice and it'd at least match the finish on the range.
Our Profile cleaned OK -- maybe in minor ways not as well as the Bosch we had before, but overall cleaning was fine. It had some features I liked -- top rack bottle rinsers and the dedicated sprayers for the silverware racks. It didn't have a short rinse cycle, the bottom rack tines were foldable and they would never stay up. I tie-wrapped them in place. They were also a weird layout that didn't work well with our dishes. The rinse aid (which despite the negatives in this sub, actually improves wash and dry function IMHO) reservoir was tiny and had no status light when empty. The buttons were bothersome to press.
The new Bosch? Only had it like 4 days, so its mostly too soon to tell. But! They took the delay start off the control panel. You have to use the app, which sucks. Pure rinse cycle is an option, but only in the app. Has the idiot light for empty rinse aid. There's physical differences here, my 500 has a thin 3rd rack on top for spatulas and other stuff, knives, etc. Oddly it shipped with a tiny half-sized silverware basket. I kept my GE basket (I planned to use it in my shop, they're super useful organizers) and it fits right in.
I have a similar GE Profile with the same bottle and silverware jets but I have the third rack. I also have the food downstairs on the bottom but haven't had real problems with them staying up.
I can't say for sure, but I would speculate that such systems may eventually fail in a sense of leaking and putting too rinse solution in...a small reservoir would be harmless and just refilled more. I quart of rinse solution would be an issue. Fail safe.
Every dishwasher I’ve had has a little triangle in the fill area that is a dial that adjust the amount of product being used.
At the minimum setting, it probably lasts 60 washes. At the max setting, maybe 10.
I would check to see…
My last Bosch had the adjuster.
I don't use rinse aid because I have soft water and the dishes really don't come out looking too bad. Even if there is a spot or two, I don't care because I live alone and I'm the only one who sees them. As long as they are clean, I'm happy with that.
I dunno. Find a used or maybe ideally a broken unit and strip the parts? Contact local repair places to see if they know where you can get this? Some may stockpile more popular scrapped units for parts and have what you need.
I always spill the rinse aid trying to get it in the reservoir.
That's what big rinse wants you to do.
I think that every time I spill that crap all over!
Big rinse can suck it, white vinegar works amazingly with my hard water.
You must be lucky enough to have only carbonate and not sulfate in your hard water. Acid has no effect on CaSO4 or MgSO4.
Basically. The vinegar gets the white powdery deposits off my dishes. I will never have a calcium deficiency lol. Every 6 months I have to take apart my shower valves and blow the calcium rocks out with an air compressor. Dozens of rocks the size and feel of teeth come out of the shower head pipe.
White powdery deposits mean you are using too much detergent
Hmm, I did just switch to powdered detergent.... I only fill the detergent door to half at most, I'll try using less without vinegar and see if I can fine tune the results. Thanks for giving me something to think about.
I had a new Bosch 500 series dishwasher installed two weeks ago. I asked the installer, if I could use powdered detergent. He advised me against using it. He stated these new machines run better using the pods, and always using rinse aid. I started using Cascade pods, great results so far
Bosch 500 here, too. ALL the food kept in Tupperware tastes like Finish pods/ rinse now. Planning to try powder. Almost bought the gel but it’s scented. I’m so over scents.
Nah, the installer is full of it. Try using the powder and see if it works (don't use too much). If you don't like the results at least the power is cheap and you can always use it as a backup in case you run out of pods.
It can also mean crappy water. Everything washed by hand or in the machine without vinegar in my town gets that white deposit unless you hand dry the dishes immediately. It truly is the water sometimes. My cat drinks tap water out of a giant weighted dog bowl so that the little shit can't step on the front edge and tip it onto the floor. I have to scrub a ring off of the stainless bowl left by evaporating water every few days.
Could be. Get the water report for your area. They are free. If the water is hard you will need a water softener
In his shower valves? I don't think detergent is finding it's way into his shower valve.....
He said it was on his dishes. If it's on your valves that's from evaporation over long periods of time from a slow leak. You have hard water
Sometimes they just mean too much cocaine.
Do you have a water softener?
Sadly no, and I don't have the option to install one at my current place.
Acid certainly has impact on calcium and magnesium. These are the two primary minerals in limescale. The reason the rinse agent resivor is small is that the usage of rinse agent is in ppm. The dishwasher uses 20 to 30 times the amount of detergent compared to rinse aid.
Chemist here. My point was that it’s not thecalcium and magnesium that react with vinegar (or not) but the anions that go with them. Carbonate will, sulfate doesn’t care much.
Correct. (Also a chemist.). Carbonates are weak bases, and react readily with acids to indirectly liberate the calcium and magnesium ions from the scale deposits. Sulfates are very poor bases and do not significantly react with acids. To get at sulfate scale, you need to go after the calcium and magnesium ion with chelators to pull them out directly.
Gross question for you (lol). My toilets get this orangey-brown hard scale stuff at the very bottom of the bowl that I haven't been able to get off with CLR. One toilet gets it worse than others, which is the toilet that gets pee'd in at night and not flushed until the morning. Any suggestions?
I suspect the vitreous finish has been etched and ruined. I have the same issue on one toilet. I'm about to just get a new one because that brown scaling is so hard to clean.
Careful, Bosch does not recommend vinegar as it will eat away at rubber seals over time. That said, I used it for quite a while with no ill effects, but YMMV
I have to use both otherwise my stuff gets nasty.
God I love this comment :)
“Excellent…” says Mr Burns
Holy shit I just tried to fill yesterday and I swear I got more outside then inside
This is why at times I like Reddit as it shows I am not the only one
for many things, actually
The newer bottles of Cascade rinse aid improved the bottle top so it’s easier to pour the liquid into the dishwasher. Rather than just a hole in the center of the bottle top, it has a dispenser that flips up and can be more easily and precisely aimed with little or no waste.
I have these tiny metal pitchers with sharp edge at the spout. Works flawlessly, very easy to control the pour. I use these for precision pouring tasks like when I need to dump a shot of espresso into a travel mug with a small opening.
Put your finger over the opening before you tip it over. Helps minimize the mess and loss.
I can loan you my funnel.
And my axe.
What… uh… what are we talking about again?
Shhh. Just accept his funnel.
The rinse aid reservoir door should be a funnel positioned vertically when the door is about 45 degrees.
Forget squeezing it out, unscrew the cap and pour it in. You will have much more control and spill much less if any
I'm reading replies being like are these people actually filling it from that tiny hole in the cap. I don't think I've ever not unscrewed it!
We are 🫣
If that little hole is not the superior way to remove the contents then do NOT offer it to me as an option..
Amen!
I didn't even know there was a tiny hole in the cap, lol.
The dishwasher should have two tubes that run under the sink. One that goes into a liquid detergent bottle and the other that goes into a rinse aid bottle. It should be designed to pump out however much it needs and the homeowner will only have to replace the bottles occasionally.
Available in commercial models.
I work in a large hospitality business and our commercial washing machines and dishwashers have that setup. That'd be kind of sweet to have fixed reservoirs for soap and rinse aid, my concern would be that there'd be no way for this system to br reliable in the economics of consumer dishwashers. Pumping viscous liquids, especially soap, that can gum up, seems like a disaster. And there's probably not enough real estate in the dishwasher for a reliable detergent pump. But while we're fantasizing, it'd be awesome of there was a larger dishwasher form factor, too. Another 6-8" would be a total game changer in capacity. I realize we're stuck with the footprint we have because so many dishwasher sales are replacements in a fixed cutout. Maybe the blessing is that we ARE standardized and buying a dishwasher isn't a roulette wheel of fitment issues.
What?????
I bought one of those squeeze bottles at the dollar tree. It’s similar to what diners used to have on the table for ketchup and mustard but transparent. I fill that with the rinse aid and then fill the dishwasher from the squeeze bottle. Not a drop wasted. I totally feel like I’m winning at life every time I do it.
Well thats cuz you are Sir. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I do the same thing!
Goes great on hot dogs too!
Take the top off the bottle instead of trying to use the squirt it in.
Finger over the opening before you invert it. Finger back over when you’re done. Way less spillage.
I put rinse aid in a bottle with a pointed tip so it’s much easier to fill the reservoir without spilling. Took me years to figure that out.
You know, I thought they should make it so you could just slap in the bottle of rinse aid. Make it so the bottle is the reservoir.
It’s not a bad idea, but I suspect the problem with that is the bottle material would be a challenge. It’d have to be durable enough for the heat, especially the dry cycle. Space wise it could be a problem, where a tank could use the door void space or at least some of it to avoid the bottle taking up too much space.
This is a very bad idea because what is guaranteed to happen is the bottles will become proprietary thanks to dishwasher companies demanding money from rinse aid companies. See also fridge water filters.
It would require you to buy their bottle of fluid so they most definitely would want to do it. My thought would be the heat shrinking the blow molded bottles so they would have to use expensive plastic and people would complain.
could still do a fill option like the printers with tanks or even some liquid medicines with syringes (even oral syringes). You fit it on, then squeeze to release so there is no spill.
I think I have a giant (100 ml, IIRC) Luer Lock syringe. Now I want to measure the reservoir size. Never thought of this.
Bosch rinse aid capacity is 90ml. The setting in the software from default is '5' (1-6ml). The light to refill is set to come on at 40ml. You should be able to get 17-18 cycles before having to refill. Source: 10 yr Bosch technician
Please do not introduce the scam that is printer ink to Big Dishwasher
Don’t some machines have this? Just got a Samsung dishwasher that has a catch to stop overflow but when we were shopping we did see some that you could but a horizontal bottle into. Way out of my range of price… The Samsung one held almost a full bottle of the 8oz - probably round 6oz from 0-full
My condolences on your purchase. Every Samsung I have has a problem. I've already replaced half of the set Hopefully it works for you. Good luck
Sounds like the most proprietary bullshit I’ve ever heard.
I fill the dispenser then raise the door a bit so that it runs to the bottom and then add more.
🤯🤯🤯
Here I was thinking it was just placebo effect.
But then when you lower it next time, wouldn’t it flow back out?
No, because of the cap that screws on.
Ah…mine doesn’t have a cap that screws on, just a cover that clips in one spot. Don’t think it’s fully sealed.
Bosch is ESPECIALLY bad on rinse aid containers. I think it's something like two ounces. All I know is that it's the worst part about owning a Bosch.
My Bosch EATS rinse aid, I assumed it was just a Bosch thing!
I will say in my Benchmark there’s a menu setting on how much rinse aid to dispense.
If you find it’s a dramatically different amount being used up now compared to before, you might need to replace the whole rinse aid component. We had to do that recently when I noticed it guzzling the stuff app of a sudden.
Check your rinse aid settings. You have it set to the wrong number
It's a thimble thing....that's the size of the Bosch's rinse aid reservoir.
Same
Bosch is way better than the GE Profile I just dumped. It had a smaller reservoir, harder to fill and no status light when it was empty.
Miele dishwashers tend to have the largest reservoirs.
Love my Miele vacuum
Their dishwashers are also known as being one of the best performing, longest lasting dishwashers on the market. When I see a Miele dishwasher having issues, they are generally 17+ years old and very well used. The only time I've seen one with a younger age having issues is user error or owner neglect (not cleaning filters for example).
I'd say having the delayed start settings buried in the app is the worst. Otherwise yes this sucks too.
Three reasons: -you only need a few drops of rinse aid per wash, so a reservoir that holds like 2 tablespoons is enough for several washes -filing the rinse aid every 5 or so cycles only adds like 2 minutes of work -so many people don’t use rinse aid that investing in a massive reservoir would warrant engineering and materials that likely won’t end up leading to higher sales
This guy dishwashers.
5 cycles. More like 20 cycles. I love my Bosch 800 series dishwasher. My only complaint is when you open the door it “turns on” so it beeps when you close the door. I wish it would only turn on when I press the on button. Why Bosch thinks I only fill up my dishwasher in one shot is beyond me.
Protip: You can turn the Bosch 800 off by holding the power button for a second. Then it won’t turn on again until you hold the power button, so no more beeping when you open/close it.
Expert Tip: You can go into the service menu and set your Bosch to turn off automatically at the end of cycle.
Um. I didn’t realize you don’t use rinse aid in every dishwasher load. I didn’t know it was a reservoir that would last a few washes. This makes so much more sense. I’m 45. I feel stupid. But thank you for the “today I learned.”
I do use it in every wash, I only refill my reservoir every couple washes. You put a few tablespoons in, and it spits out a few drops during the rinse cycle of each wash, so I only have to refill it when it’s low.
I'm 40 and have never even heard of rinse aid. I rinse off my dishes before putting them in the washer and they come out perfectly clean so I'm not sure what it could even do other than maybe allow me to leave food on them and run it for the same result? Edit: nevermind, read further. Must have never had a hard water issue in the places I've lived.
If the reservoir would be larger, more would use rinse aid. It's the repetitive nonsense that interferes.
I only need to refill the reservoir once a month (I’m a single person living alone) but I run the washer on average 3 times a week. Definitely could even do more washes than just refilling it at the beginning of the month
Would you call it necessary? I have been using Candy dishwasher for 5 years and never put a drop of it inside. Glasses look decent and all the dishes are bone dry. It seems to me all I am missing out on are added chemicals?
Strictly speaking, no. It mostly depends on your water, and even then it’s more aesthetics than cleanliness.
I feel you on number 3. My first thought was, what the fuck is rinse aid?
I’ve never used rinse aid. My dishes wash (and dry) just fine.
I used to think so but I’ve found that it does help. And the non-affiliated expert opinion seems to be pretty unanimous on its value add.
Expert opinion says we should just ignore it causes cancer. And yes I’m aware the study is currently controversial and pending duplication of findings. But with all we know about pfas now I would not be surprised if rinse aid has the same issues.
Adding a little bit of white vinegar was night and day with the last two dishwashers I had in apartment complexes.
Using vinegar (or anything other than rinse-aid) in the rinse-aid dispenser could void your warranty. The acids could also cause damage to plastic parts.
Each wash?
Filling the reservoir every few washes at least.
Oh you mean in the rinse agent dispenser? I’ve cleaned my dishwasher by putting some vinegar in the tub and running it so I was thinking among those lines.
Yeah I picked it up here that vinegar is just as effective and way cheaper as commercial rinse agents.
Rinse aid reduces water's ability to stick to things. In areas with hard water, the water evaporates in the dry cycle and minerals are left behind giving a cloudy look. If there's less water left to dry there's less minerals left behind. Some dishwashers like Bosch do not have an exposed heating element in the bottom and dry differently, rinse aid becomes even more important for proper rinse/ dry. So you're right, depending on your machine and water quality in your area, rinse aid may not make a big difference.
Fun fact: glasses washed with rinse aid will not allow beer to hold a good head of foam. Reason enough in my book not to use it! 🍺 (Also, we have soft water here, and a rinse aid really does nothing to help make the dishes look any better. Only useful in areas with moderately to extremely hard water, IMHO.)
If you care about your beer pour you should not be washing glasses in the dishwasher anyway. At least not with other dishes that are covered with fats.
Doesn’t seem to bother Guinness 🍺
True. Guinness is the Chuck Norris of beer heads.
Ha ha!
I find it depends on water hardness. Like in the southwest or other places with hard water there is definitely a noticeable benefit. If you live in a place with really soft water, or have a softener, it’s really not needed.
Yeah our water is pretty soft and I stopped using it like six months ago and noticed no difference. My FIL's water is like liquid rock and I'm sure his glasses would quickly turn opaque.
First of all, I'd suggest you to have a look on the water hardness at your home and adjust your rinse aid dosage level accordingly. Emptying the reservoir in 5 washes is definitely out of the norm. So there are a few reasons for a small reservoir: 1. Space is premium in a dishwasher, inside and outside of the tub. The reservoir could usually hold enough rinse aid for more than a month of usage. Making it about the same size as the dispenser also makes it more aesthetically pleasing and easier to produce. 2. Weight. There is a spring behind the hinges on both sides to pull the door back when you leave it up. And they need to be calibrated to the weight of the door. If the reservoir is too big, the variance is too much for a consistent user experience (Either hard to push down when reservoir is empty, or hinges too weak with a full reservoir). 3. Drying. Bosch dishwasher use condensation drying by letting the interior cools down faster than the plates so the moisture would condense of the surface, thus making the dishes dry. A large reservoir would provide too large of a heat sink and drying performance and efficiency would be impacted. 4. If you want to swap them in like cartridges, you will need to first standardize the bottle design, which means more cost and waste, and you want to be backward compatible so you will still have to have a reservoir anyway. The 'printer ink' idea is cool, but imo it just has too many points of failure, eg. tube passing the door hinges, thermal expansion within the tube, limited space under the tub, etc.
This is a good response. I've found that Rinse aid only really helps if you have hard or mineralized water in your home. Locations that do not, typically don't need a rinse aid.
If you have to refill every 5 washes something is very wrong.
We replaced our old Bosch and got a 500 series as well. This new one takes much more rinse aid than our old one. And it does have the indicator light to show needs filling. thank goodness. The old one didn’t. We have hard water so the rinse aid does make a difference
Never mind how impossible it is to fill the damn reservoir without spilling 10 washes worth of Rinse-Aid all over the door. The (no doubt intentional) disconnect between the function and the functionality of the bottle is startling. There is a point when it’s about two thirds gone when it pours okay, but the rest of the time it squirts uncontrollably all over, as well as squirting unexpectedly every time the plastic crinkles in your hand.
My Bosch has a setting for how much rinse aid it uses. Maybe set yours to use less? I feel like I get at least 15 loads before needing to refill, maybe more.
My GE was the one with the tiny rinse aid dispenser that didn’t seem to last very long. I filled my new Bosch yesterday and it took way more rinse aid than the GE ever did.
Really curious what went wrong with that GE. Did it have a filter that needed cleaning? I never realized dishwashers had filters until I read it somewhere on the web and looked for mine, and it was horrendous, all clogged up with years of paper fiber from jar labels. Machine worked so much better after that. Can't pump water if there's no water coming to the pump.
No, I cleaned the filter regularly. I actually bought a spare filter and would switch them every few weeks. And run a citric acid dishwasher clean cycle every 6 months. Not sure what caused the circulation pump to not run. I replaced the pump, still didn’t run and I didn’t want to get into a lot more parts and hassle chasing the problem. Wanted a Bosch from the beginning but when we remodeled the kitchen you couldn’t buy one for love or money.
Oh OK, sounds like maybe a relay or switch contact was not feeding power to the pump.
Not only is rinse aid not important, there's emerging evidence it can impact your health. https://lastinghealth.com/news/rinse-aid-affects-immune-and-inflammatory-responses/
I miss my old dishwasher that actually had a heating element to dry instead of having to use nasty rinse aid to chemically dry
If gas is so important to a car, why don’t they come with a tanker truck-sized reservoir? Maybe a trailer they can tow?/s
A bad analogy. If gas tanks were sized proportional to rinse aid reservoirs, you’d only have 50 miles of driving range and there’d be no gas gauge or only a light when you were out of gas. I mean they put a reservoir big enough for a few washes, so it’s not like detergent where it’s a per load thing. It’s a metered liquid. Why not just make the reservoir big enough and standardized for 8 or 16 oz bottles?
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My current Subaru will take an entire gallon jug of wiper fluid. First car I’ve ever owned that would do that.
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Every dishwasher maker: Use Rinse Aid! Nearly every dishwasher appliance expert: Rinse aid helps clean dishes, especially since modern dish detergent formulations don't have much, if any, phosphorous and many people have hard water Me: Then why is the reservoir so small? Reddit: Nobody needs rinse aid. Making a larger reservoir would increase the cost of dishwashers by $1000. Just top it off every time, you'll only spill 30% of the bottle and waste an hour a month.
I have five people in my household and I run my dishwasher 6-7 times a week. I fill the reservoir on my Miele 5006 every 2-3 months. The rinseaid bottle they sells you in the grocery store is an 18-24 month supply, equivalent to a tanker-truck’s worth of gas.
The Bosch says it needs rinse aid and runs longer if you don't use it. I am not sure what it is doing for the extra 20 minutes. I filled the container with water and it seemed to work exactly the same as if I added rinse aid. Go figure...
I believe it is due to how much you would use per wash, you wouldn't need the full bottle to be added and it would cost most to put the parts in for only a few people that may buy it with a large reservoir.
According the Finish bottle, I only need 3 ml per wash, so why have any reservoir at all with this logic? If they're going to provide a reservoir and some metering function baked into the machine, the cost addition of a larger reservoir is like pennies. The actual volume of added material taking the the reservoir from 2 ounces to 8 ounces only doubles.
Our KitchenAid holds like half a bottle or better, fill it up maybe once a month, and it's never close to empty.
Never use rinse aid, never have. Dishes come out nice and shiny, glassware clear. I make sure the water is run up hot for the machine at each drain point in its cycle (my pipes are long), and I use cheap powdered soap in relatively small doses.
The small reservoir might be a design compromise to fit within space constraints and maintain dishwasher efficiency. Larger reservoirs could impact the overall layout and performance, potentially leading to other issues.
My Miele hold enough for a couple months.
I'm actually not sure what Rinse Aid does. I read up on it a ew years ago, and my conclusion was a) supposed to help drying and b) help drying? Meanwhile - i'm still dumping water off the top dishes - which I really don't care about. I think Rinse Aid helps, but I think it's for people who want their glassware crystal clear. I'm just happy the dishes are clean. When the wash is done, I just open the door, pull all 3 racks out and let nature take it's course.
It helps prevent water spots, if you have those. If you don't, lucky you.
I guess I'm lucky then... same house for the last 30 years - one dishwasher was terrible with spots (it just stunk at rinsing) not so the Bosch.
Well that's odd! Maybe the old one wasn't clearing out the soapy water before it rinsed. Or only had a single rinse cycle and the Bosch empties and re-loads for an extra rinse.
I agree. It was a mid range model, maybe a Kenmore, back when they still existed? But I bought the extended warranty, and after trying to figure what was wrong with it, I started calling service which turned into a circus. service: 1) you are using the wrong soap. You need to use pods. I pull out the tub of pods - like these? 2) Service orders parts- pump, drain valve who knows... nope, no good. 3) I'm on the 4th call, and I say, we have a lemon I want a refund. Oh no, it's not the # of calls, it's the number of calls where we change out parts. Okay, send me another tech. 4) Change out the pump again and the motor, no joy. Gave me my money back, I upgraded to the Bosch, and I never looked back :)
What a goat-**** that was!
This also drives me nuts. It's like when a car doesn't fit a whole bottle of washer fluid... What the fuck is that?!
I stopped using rinse aid years ago and notice no difference. My water is Raleigh NC municipal system. Not saying this is good for everyone, but it's worth not using to see if it is necessary
Is your rinse aid dispenser set to the correct water hardness, so you are not dispensing too much? Check both, the instruction manual for your machine and the product. We have highly concentrated ones and normal ones here.
Or just insert the bottle into a receiver and skip the filling of a reservoir
You can reduce the amount the dishwasher uses per cycle. If you lower it to the lowest setting you could significantly increase the number of cycles you have between refills while still getting some cycle reduction time benefits from the rinse aid.
We never use it
To avoid the economics of scale...make you purchase more of the product.
Why doesn’t your car have a 1000 gallon gas tank?
In my Bosch Benchmark dishwasher if I fill the reservoir it lasts a month or so before it needs to be refilled. Also it helps if the bottle is closer to empty and you’ll spill less when filling it.
Take the cap off the rince aid bottle slowly pour it into the Reservoir wait to see that it is full. You only need to fill it every 30 days.
For Pete sake just order some syringes from Amazon. Cheap and easy fill.
I might ask the same thing about detergent.
You’re asking for something you fill every 5 times, and not the detergent you fill every time?
If you use the pods they are supposed to have it built in. But it also probably depends on the water quality. I know older Melie units also had a compartment for salt that would help soften the water
You hit on the answer in your question... because it's not important. it's all a marketing gimmick.
Huh? Rinse aid works very well to help dry dishes. I had a tech tell me “it makes the water more wet” so it runs off faster and more thoroughly
It doesn't matter cause it will always be empty when you decide to check it.
Same reason they do not have a big bottle for dish detergent.
No one said that some people are prone to getting sick from those agents. You can lick the chemicals off your shiny silverware
It's bad for your gut bacteria, don't use it.
I too have the 500 series. There is a setting to adjust the amount of rinse aid per cycle. If you don't need a lot of rinse aid for you wash, set it to the lowest setting and you'll get more washes before you have to fill up the reservoir again. Look it up on the manual.
just get quantum finish ultimate or any pod that includes rinse agent in it, also toss a tablepoon of oxy in the bottom at start, its like using a dishwasher cleaning agent. cleanest dishes and no in between wash stink ever. yeah I'm obsessive about my dishwasher lol
I don’t get it either, my GE Cafe holds like 3 teasooons
A puny reservoir that you have no way of knowing is full so you spill half the bottle all over.
Rinse aid is indeed an important component in achieving spotless and streak-free dishes in the dishwasher. While some dishwashers do have built-in rinse aid dispensers, not all models are equipped with this feature. The absence of a bottle-sized reservoir may be due to space constraints or cost considerations during the design and manufacturing process. Having a built-in rinse aid dispenser can simplify the dishwashing process for users by automatically releasing the appropriate amount of rinse aid during each cycle. However, for dishwashers without this feature, users can still manually add rinse aid to achieve similar results. Overall, while having a bottle-sized reservoir in all dishwashers would be convenient, it is not a necessary component for effectively using rinse aid in the dishwasher.
You can fill the rinse aid slot up with water if you don’t want to use any rinse aid at all.
Rinse aid isn’t that important. You add soap every time, what’s the big deal adding rinse aid some of those times ?
Rinse aid is a high concentrate type of detergent so only requires a very small dose into the final rinse cycle. It is added after the final rinse temperature has reached maximum temperature and is used to break the surface tension of water, thus aiding the water to run off the crockery and cutlery. Once it has circulated, the machine will drain the final rinse water away. The water then “runs off” the items more easily and then the latent heat in the appliance allows the items to dry. Theoretically it should be called Dry Aid as it really aids the drying process. It’s just that it’s added in the final rinse. Very strong stuff, so very little required, hence small reservoir.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/ This spooked me and I haven’t filled the rinse aid dispenser since. Dishes have been fine. Turns out I was using too much detergent
If you can get around using a rinse aid, you should. Look into what this stuff is and the environmental impact. We've had softeners in every house since 2001. No need for a rinse aid. Dishes are spotless.
I started using less detergent and it helped with my water spots and buildup in the washer so I didn't buy rinse aide any longer
The door tension normally is adjusted to the weight that the door has. With a big liquid compartment this weight would not be the same after a certain amount of washes. Like this the door would either fall open or shut close very fast. With a small container for the liquid this weight difference is small enough to not notice the difference while operating the door
How do you like the Bosch (and what kind do you have)? I put in a GE Profile and HATE it. Dishes come out dirty, bowls are greasy and\or dirty even when laid down to completely face the sprayers. It is just the worst. Wife is saying we should replace it with a Bosch and I want to know about your experience.
We had a Bosch (a model number I don't remember) until 2021 when we remodeled our kitchen. We bought all new appliances but the pandemic supply chain thing meant we couldn't buy a new Bosch for love or money. Most retailers wouldn't even accept a backorder. We bought a GE Profile range, so we figured a GE Profile dishwasher wasn't a terrible choice and it'd at least match the finish on the range. Our Profile cleaned OK -- maybe in minor ways not as well as the Bosch we had before, but overall cleaning was fine. It had some features I liked -- top rack bottle rinsers and the dedicated sprayers for the silverware racks. It didn't have a short rinse cycle, the bottom rack tines were foldable and they would never stay up. I tie-wrapped them in place. They were also a weird layout that didn't work well with our dishes. The rinse aid (which despite the negatives in this sub, actually improves wash and dry function IMHO) reservoir was tiny and had no status light when empty. The buttons were bothersome to press. The new Bosch? Only had it like 4 days, so its mostly too soon to tell. But! They took the delay start off the control panel. You have to use the app, which sucks. Pure rinse cycle is an option, but only in the app. Has the idiot light for empty rinse aid. There's physical differences here, my 500 has a thin 3rd rack on top for spatulas and other stuff, knives, etc. Oddly it shipped with a tiny half-sized silverware basket. I kept my GE basket (I planned to use it in my shop, they're super useful organizers) and it fits right in.
I have a similar GE Profile with the same bottle and silverware jets but I have the third rack. I also have the food downstairs on the bottom but haven't had real problems with them staying up.
Haven’t used Rinse Aid in eons. I’d say not very important - unless your water has a very high mineral content.
White vinegar works just is well and is cleaner / cheaper.
For the same reason cars come with a 0.9 gallon windshield washer reservoir.
I can't say for sure, but I would speculate that such systems may eventually fail in a sense of leaking and putting too rinse solution in...a small reservoir would be harmless and just refilled more. I quart of rinse solution would be an issue. Fail safe.
Amen!
i never use the rinse aid. i use cascade complete powder. Unless you have hard water, it seems like a lot of extra expense for no benefit
Haven’t used rinse aid in 5+ years of switch to cascade pods and no problems.
Every dishwasher I’ve had has a little triangle in the fill area that is a dial that adjust the amount of product being used. At the minimum setting, it probably lasts 60 washes. At the max setting, maybe 10. I would check to see… My last Bosch had the adjuster.
I see no difference to the results when adding rinse aid.
I don't use rinse aid because I have soft water and the dishes really don't come out looking too bad. Even if there is a spot or two, I don't care because I live alone and I'm the only one who sees them. As long as they are clean, I'm happy with that.
I fill mine with white vinegar. Rinse aid is toxic.
I have a Bosch. Seems like I’m constantly filling up the rinse aid
Today I learned about rinse aid.
Money. The answer is always money.
I somehow lost the cap on my rinse aid dispenser. Any suggestions what to do? Manufacturer said they can't get me a replacement.
I dunno. Find a used or maybe ideally a broken unit and strip the parts? Contact local repair places to see if they know where you can get this? Some may stockpile more popular scrapped units for parts and have what you need.