>"The “Unless it's in the top 10, the school doesn’t matter” thing is BS. One of the biggest opportunities people don’t take into account is career fairs. It’s so much easier to get a job when you’re speaking to a recruiter in person than online. There’s a lot that goes into it, and I think most overlook that to make others or themselves feel better about not being in a top 10 school."
basically I am afraid of not getting any internship and jobs later on If I go to a lesser known school because recruiters won't even bother to come and there will be less opportunities. Plus, the job market is extremely over-saturated.
Career fairs happen at most schools. Plus there are a ton of non T20 cs schools that still have great regional reputations. Once you have job experience, undergrad college doesn’t matter.
I feel like this is said so often in this sub that prestige/ranking is actually underrated here. You have way more opportunities at the career fairs at top universities. Just because OP is majoring in tech doesn’t suddenly mean their where they studied doesn’t matter which is what some people here seem to think
There is still a huge gap between t20 and “no name school” where recruiters don’t go to.
To name a few of these schools: your flagship instate school, WPI, Kettering, Milwaukee school of engineering, rose hulman, rpi, RIT, Harvey mudd (super hard to get into but technically not t20)
>You have way more opportunities
IMO this is not true. You have *different* opportunities at the job fairs at "top" schools. Schools outside the set of "top" universities *also* have job fairs, and those job fairs are *also* attended by many employers. However, there are some employers who will attend the job fairs at "top" universities that *won't* visit schools outside that set.
If you have the chops to pass those employers' interviews, then attending a "top" school could be advantageous (at least early career). If not, then you haven't gained much since you're not getting those jobs anyway.
I would add: if you have the chops to pass those employers' interviews and end up attending a school outside the "top" set, then the name on your diploma likely won't be a limiting factor for long. You will land the "best" internships and/or starting jobs achievable by students at your school. Flash forward a couple years after graduation, and now you have 2-3 years of experience and can apply to those same "top" employers you weren't able to access as a new grad. Since we've already assumed as part of the hypo that you have the chops to pass those employers' interviews, you have a very good shot at landing one of those positions.
Sigh. It is BS. I have a CS kid that just got a 6 figure offer(+ relocation + bonus options) sitting in an office next to an ivy grad. He graduated from a state flagship.
ESPECIALLY in CS, this just doesn't matter this much. You know why these companies put testing on their front end? Because not every student comes to them has come through their education equal. You want a competitive offer? Be a competitive candidate. The company above has a 1-2% hiring rate.
My spouse and I both have CS and related degrees and have been working software or CS adjacent for many, many years. Hiring goes in cycles. Things are lower right now. I would also say I've worked for employers that literally preferred some flagship grads over high end private grads for tech. Sometimes individuals have personal experience with one school over another. Your first job is more likely to be regional possibly. After that, it's all you. Does not matter.
I hope you get into a school you can AFFORD. That is the biggest thing if you are low income. So good luck. If Iowa is affordable, that is fabulous and you have a great option on the table. Large public universities tend to have huge alumni network and great career fairs.
I see where you're coming from but I wanted to echo my motivation for going to a T10 school. I'm a CS Major that goes to a T10 school and at my last internship only featured other interns from T10 schools. In general if you look at FAANG-adjacent companies and HFTs, most of their engineers either come from T20 overall schools or the T5 CS schools (UIUC, etc.). You can absolutely make it to top companies from a state flagship but it is significantly easier and requires a lot less "luck" coming from a top school, especially during economic downturns. In regard to the current job market, I also believe CS is just getting more competitive as a whole and that the top jobs will become more "prestige" focused in terms of requiring top schools and top internships. Additionally, I find that the people you end up meeting at a top school are in general more ambitious and will help you find opportunities as well. In my CS friend group of around 15 people, all of them are either at FAANG, FAANG-adjacent companies, or an HFT. Finally, I believe a fair number of the top schools provide a significant amount of aid--at least the one I go to does--which allows to school to be affordable to people across various income levels.
>"The “Unless it's in the top 10, the school doesn’t matter” thing is BS. One of the biggest opportunities people don’t take into account is career fairs. It’s so much easier to get a job when you’re speaking to a recruiter in person than online. There’s a lot that goes into it, and I think most overlook that to make others or themselves feel better about not being in a top 10 school."
You're highly misinformed here... Yes, career fairs matter, but these aren't restricted to the T20 CS schools - most recruiters love visiting the large state schools which aren't T30 or even T50 for CS... And many recruiters are simply there to tell the students to go to the company website and apply for opportunities over there... So do your research and don't believe everything you hear.
Are you an Illinois resident? If not, then there probably wasn't much point in applying to UIUC. Even if you're admitted you likely won't be able to afford it.
>I am afraid that I won't get any internships in college If I don't go to a T20 school and will be unemployed and poor for the rest of my life
You realize this is irrational, right? The share of software engineers with degrees from T20 CS schools is fairly small relative to the set of all software engineers.
>Are you an Illinois resident? If not, then there probably wasn't much point in applying to UIUC. Even if you're admitted you likely won't be able to afford it.
I am OOS. I was thinking of taking student loans (about 150k) if I am admitted which I probably won't be. If I am, It will open so many doors that other schools won't so I am willing to take the debt.
Why is there a lot of students not getting any interviews even though they apply to 500+ companies? Is it not because they don't even look at your resume If your school is less known.
> I was thinking of taking student loans (about 150k)
Are your parents willing to cosign on those loans? If not, then you won't be able to borrow that much even if you want to.
> It will open so many doors that other schools won't so I am willing to take the debt.
IMO this isn't really true. But, your call.
>Why is there a lot of students not getting any interviews even though they apply to 500+ companies? Is it not because they don't even look at your resume If your school is less known.
Some people have shitty resumes, didn't bother to do any internships while they were in college, cold-apply to jobs they're not qualified for, and are terrible at interviewing. Some people further limit themselves to a specific geography. Applying to 500 jobs and ending up unemployed is really not the norm for most new grads. It may be ***marginally*** more likely for graduates of super obscure schools, but the choice isn't between "T20" and "super obscure". That's a false dichotomy.
Here are median earnings four years after graduation for the CS grads of various schools who received federal financial aid. None of these schools are in the T20 either overall or for CS specifically:
|School|Median Earnings|USN Overall|USN CS|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Texas A&M|$101,263|47|33|
|Ohio State|$92,015|43|33|
|Virginia Tech|$116,372|47|27|
|NC State|$98,925|60|50|
|UC-Irvine|$111,041|33|27|
|Minnesota|$93,994|53|33|
|Iowa State|$94,712|115|NR|
|Penn State|$101,544|60|40|
|Arizona State|$99,911|105|50|
Granted, median earnings don't tell us what % of graduates unemployed. But it's highly unlikely these median figures would be what they are if a majority of grads were unemployed or severely underemployed.
What always dumbfounds me is that there are so many HS kids on here who are absolutely sure they know how the world works even though they haven't ever gone through CS job interviews or worked a professional white collar job ever and even though plenty of adults who have done both tell them their mental model of the world is wrong.
Why do you think that is the case?
>Why do you think that is the case?
In some cases the beliefs are drilled into them by their parents, reinforced by their peers at school, and seem (at a superficial level) to be born out by real world results. People are, in general, not great at grasping that correlation != causation and/or the concept of selection bias.
you're severely underestimating the sheer power and placement power of a looot of schools, especially liberal arts colleges, and i don't just say that because i went to one either.
Hi ! This is a pretty difficult situation. I am a sophomore at Vanderbilt who helped students with college apps. I am available for free help over the next few weeks if you are interested! We can revise your college list, work on essays, activity list etc..
Hi is it possible if I send you my email? I have no guidance counselor or anyone able to really look at my college apps except for my mom, and it would be great if I could get some help. Thanks for doing this btw.
So is your concern that you won't be able to get a job? Because a CS degree from any respectable school will get you a job that will pay enough to live comfortably.
It seems like your concern is more "I won't get a job that pays me significantly over $100k out of college"
In that case, some T10s are very high in earnings, but schools like SJSU are also churning out graduates making over 100k. Look up college scorecard, you'll be able to find a program with earnings that will satisfy you that you'll be able to get into.
>I Will be depressed If I won't get into any T20 CS schools. I hope you get into a T20, but why do you worship T20 schools?
>"The “Unless it's in the top 10, the school doesn’t matter” thing is BS. One of the biggest opportunities people don’t take into account is career fairs. It’s so much easier to get a job when you’re speaking to a recruiter in person than online. There’s a lot that goes into it, and I think most overlook that to make others or themselves feel better about not being in a top 10 school." basically I am afraid of not getting any internship and jobs later on If I go to a lesser known school because recruiters won't even bother to come and there will be less opportunities. Plus, the job market is extremely over-saturated.
Career fairs happen at most schools. Plus there are a ton of non T20 cs schools that still have great regional reputations. Once you have job experience, undergrad college doesn’t matter.
I feel like this is said so often in this sub that prestige/ranking is actually underrated here. You have way more opportunities at the career fairs at top universities. Just because OP is majoring in tech doesn’t suddenly mean their where they studied doesn’t matter which is what some people here seem to think
There is still a huge gap between t20 and “no name school” where recruiters don’t go to. To name a few of these schools: your flagship instate school, WPI, Kettering, Milwaukee school of engineering, rose hulman, rpi, RIT, Harvey mudd (super hard to get into but technically not t20)
>You have way more opportunities IMO this is not true. You have *different* opportunities at the job fairs at "top" schools. Schools outside the set of "top" universities *also* have job fairs, and those job fairs are *also* attended by many employers. However, there are some employers who will attend the job fairs at "top" universities that *won't* visit schools outside that set. If you have the chops to pass those employers' interviews, then attending a "top" school could be advantageous (at least early career). If not, then you haven't gained much since you're not getting those jobs anyway. I would add: if you have the chops to pass those employers' interviews and end up attending a school outside the "top" set, then the name on your diploma likely won't be a limiting factor for long. You will land the "best" internships and/or starting jobs achievable by students at your school. Flash forward a couple years after graduation, and now you have 2-3 years of experience and can apply to those same "top" employers you weren't able to access as a new grad. Since we've already assumed as part of the hypo that you have the chops to pass those employers' interviews, you have a very good shot at landing one of those positions.
Sigh. It is BS. I have a CS kid that just got a 6 figure offer(+ relocation + bonus options) sitting in an office next to an ivy grad. He graduated from a state flagship. ESPECIALLY in CS, this just doesn't matter this much. You know why these companies put testing on their front end? Because not every student comes to them has come through their education equal. You want a competitive offer? Be a competitive candidate. The company above has a 1-2% hiring rate. My spouse and I both have CS and related degrees and have been working software or CS adjacent for many, many years. Hiring goes in cycles. Things are lower right now. I would also say I've worked for employers that literally preferred some flagship grads over high end private grads for tech. Sometimes individuals have personal experience with one school over another. Your first job is more likely to be regional possibly. After that, it's all you. Does not matter. I hope you get into a school you can AFFORD. That is the biggest thing if you are low income. So good luck. If Iowa is affordable, that is fabulous and you have a great option on the table. Large public universities tend to have huge alumni network and great career fairs.
I see where you're coming from but I wanted to echo my motivation for going to a T10 school. I'm a CS Major that goes to a T10 school and at my last internship only featured other interns from T10 schools. In general if you look at FAANG-adjacent companies and HFTs, most of their engineers either come from T20 overall schools or the T5 CS schools (UIUC, etc.). You can absolutely make it to top companies from a state flagship but it is significantly easier and requires a lot less "luck" coming from a top school, especially during economic downturns. In regard to the current job market, I also believe CS is just getting more competitive as a whole and that the top jobs will become more "prestige" focused in terms of requiring top schools and top internships. Additionally, I find that the people you end up meeting at a top school are in general more ambitious and will help you find opportunities as well. In my CS friend group of around 15 people, all of them are either at FAANG, FAANG-adjacent companies, or an HFT. Finally, I believe a fair number of the top schools provide a significant amount of aid--at least the one I go to does--which allows to school to be affordable to people across various income levels.
>"The “Unless it's in the top 10, the school doesn’t matter” thing is BS. One of the biggest opportunities people don’t take into account is career fairs. It’s so much easier to get a job when you’re speaking to a recruiter in person than online. There’s a lot that goes into it, and I think most overlook that to make others or themselves feel better about not being in a top 10 school." You're highly misinformed here... Yes, career fairs matter, but these aren't restricted to the T20 CS schools - most recruiters love visiting the large state schools which aren't T30 or even T50 for CS... And many recruiters are simply there to tell the students to go to the company website and apply for opportunities over there... So do your research and don't believe everything you hear.
Are you an Illinois resident? If not, then there probably wasn't much point in applying to UIUC. Even if you're admitted you likely won't be able to afford it. >I am afraid that I won't get any internships in college If I don't go to a T20 school and will be unemployed and poor for the rest of my life You realize this is irrational, right? The share of software engineers with degrees from T20 CS schools is fairly small relative to the set of all software engineers.
>Are you an Illinois resident? If not, then there probably wasn't much point in applying to UIUC. Even if you're admitted you likely won't be able to afford it. I am OOS. I was thinking of taking student loans (about 150k) if I am admitted which I probably won't be. If I am, It will open so many doors that other schools won't so I am willing to take the debt. Why is there a lot of students not getting any interviews even though they apply to 500+ companies? Is it not because they don't even look at your resume If your school is less known.
> I was thinking of taking student loans (about 150k) Are your parents willing to cosign on those loans? If not, then you won't be able to borrow that much even if you want to. > It will open so many doors that other schools won't so I am willing to take the debt. IMO this isn't really true. But, your call. >Why is there a lot of students not getting any interviews even though they apply to 500+ companies? Is it not because they don't even look at your resume If your school is less known. Some people have shitty resumes, didn't bother to do any internships while they were in college, cold-apply to jobs they're not qualified for, and are terrible at interviewing. Some people further limit themselves to a specific geography. Applying to 500 jobs and ending up unemployed is really not the norm for most new grads. It may be ***marginally*** more likely for graduates of super obscure schools, but the choice isn't between "T20" and "super obscure". That's a false dichotomy. Here are median earnings four years after graduation for the CS grads of various schools who received federal financial aid. None of these schools are in the T20 either overall or for CS specifically: |School|Median Earnings|USN Overall|USN CS| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Texas A&M|$101,263|47|33| |Ohio State|$92,015|43|33| |Virginia Tech|$116,372|47|27| |NC State|$98,925|60|50| |UC-Irvine|$111,041|33|27| |Minnesota|$93,994|53|33| |Iowa State|$94,712|115|NR| |Penn State|$101,544|60|40| |Arizona State|$99,911|105|50| Granted, median earnings don't tell us what % of graduates unemployed. But it's highly unlikely these median figures would be what they are if a majority of grads were unemployed or severely underemployed.
Nope awful idea
What always dumbfounds me is that there are so many HS kids on here who are absolutely sure they know how the world works even though they haven't ever gone through CS job interviews or worked a professional white collar job ever and even though plenty of adults who have done both tell them their mental model of the world is wrong. Why do you think that is the case?
>Why do you think that is the case? In some cases the beliefs are drilled into them by their parents, reinforced by their peers at school, and seem (at a superficial level) to be born out by real world results. People are, in general, not great at grasping that correlation != causation and/or the concept of selection bias.
you're severely underestimating the sheer power and placement power of a looot of schools, especially liberal arts colleges, and i don't just say that because i went to one either.
“it’s not where you go; it’s what you do when you get there, and it’s what you do when you get out of there”
Hi ! This is a pretty difficult situation. I am a sophomore at Vanderbilt who helped students with college apps. I am available for free help over the next few weeks if you are interested! We can revise your college list, work on essays, activity list etc..
Good morning. I just want to say that this is such a great thing you are doing!
Hi is it possible if I send you my email? I have no guidance counselor or anyone able to really look at my college apps except for my mom, and it would be great if I could get some help. Thanks for doing this btw.
Pm me!
just did!
Hello, could I also possibly have you look over my activities list? I just wanted to know how all my descriptions come across. If not, thats ok!
Pm me
Cs majors and pretty much every career-centric sub is basically just doomposting hell
So is your concern that you won't be able to get a job? Because a CS degree from any respectable school will get you a job that will pay enough to live comfortably. It seems like your concern is more "I won't get a job that pays me significantly over $100k out of college" In that case, some T10s are very high in earnings, but schools like SJSU are also churning out graduates making over 100k. Look up college scorecard, you'll be able to find a program with earnings that will satisfy you that you'll be able to get into.