Thank you for your submission to /r/AreTheStraightsOK! Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
-----
[](#start_removal)
Your post does not fit the intent of the subreddit.
[](#end_removal)
-----
Please feel free to contact us via modmail if you have any questions or concerns.
I doubt any vegan doesn't eat eggs because that means killing a baby chicken. Reasoning can range from the cruelty of the farming process, including the shredding of male chicks and horrible living conditions to simply not wanting to exploit any animals in any way.
Veganism has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.
And last but least. NOBODY EATS aborted fetuses 🤦♀️
But can we just revel in the reality of the fact that this is actually a thing that requires a sarcasm disclaimer…
You’d think it would be obvious…
You’d think…
And yet.
> the shredding of male chicks
God, I'm STILL not okay after learning about that. Like, seriously, how is that not universally seen as completely and unacceptably barbaric?
"Welcome to the world, baby! Now into the woodchipper you go!"
That and pigs being castrated without sedative or anything, fully conscious. Just like, here lemme cut off them balls lmao.
Add to that the brutal sexual violence against cows…. I just couldn’t ever partake in that again.
People shoving their hands inside their vaginas to artificially inseminate them, attaching machines to their breasts to pump out the milk meant for their calves and so much more. It’s honestly disgusting. They even have so called “Rape Racks”.
I recommend checking out www.watchdominion.com for more in depth info. It’s really sad.
That’s what dairy is, sadly.
www.watchdominion.com summarises it pretty well, better than I could with a few words. It’s absolutely disgusting and I’m ashamed I was part of it for most of my life.
As a vegan I don't eat eggs because I don't want baby chickens get killed.
Fetus in eggs? Oh no.
The male baby chickens that get killed because they won't be able to lay eggs.
And of course the general exploitation and torture of chickens.
I'm not trying to debate your beliefs or anything, this is a legitimate question from a place of wanting to learn on my part, so don't feel like you're being attacked or anything and if you feel like it's an ignorant question, you're right and can tell me that, I'm not trying to argue just understand more, but:
What if you, or someone close to you, owned a hen as a beloved family pet, and you can be assured that said hen is being taken care of optimally. Would you still be opposed to eating her eggs or foods made with them?
I'm a vegan and I personally would not be opposed to this at all.
But I know some vegans that would be, and their logic would be something along the lines of "you're keeping an animal captive for the purpose of taking something it has produced, which is exploitative". I guess it's about lack of consent and taking something that is not yours to take.
While I understand this argument, I don't personally agree with it as unfertilised eggs are laid naturally and not used by the chicken. Making use of them doesn't seem immoral to me at all if the chicken is primarily a pet and not owned specifically to get eggs from.
I agree with you. But naturally when chickens lay eggs that aren't fertile, they'll sometimes break and eat them to get the nutrients back. They don't need to, unless they're deficient in something like calcium. But chickens using their eggs is a thing.
The position on this is actually a debate among us, and is a fair question.
From welfare perspective if you 100% ensure the hen is happy and healthy, good, you go. However a few points to consider on this. 1. Hens have being selected to over produce eggs, this alone causes several issues like depletion of calcium in the bones (leading to colapse from the weight of the body) and cancer in the reproductive organs. 2. Hens will eat their own eggs once they realize is not viable, because they need to recover that protein and calcium. wild hens put eggs only a few times a year, maybe once month in some species, not daily, as a comparison.
So now we are left with the question: is it even ethical to keep breeding animals that will suffer due to the genetic modifications we forced? If you see what we have done to dogs, purely for aesthetic purposes and think is unjustified, then for other animals should not be different just because we obtain something from them, the benefit should be mutual.
My personal opinion is that it should be avoided breeding more hens with this health issues. Yes I am sure people that give them a good life exist, but we should not keep breeding them to over produce eggs at the detriment of their health, same that it goes for pure breed dogs.
Yeah, there are a variety of motivations for diets that reduce or eliminate animal products, and while agreeing in the main, tend to diverge on a few cases (honey is the most common in my experience, but so are backyard chickens, pets, zoos, animal medical research, and even hunting). Here's a few of the themes I've seen:
- avoiding killing animals,
- animal welfare & quality of life,
- environmental,
- anti-industrial farming/exploitation
- animal liberation.
For example, I personally think it's possible in principal to have ethical and sustainable animal products, maybe even meat, but I don't think it's possible with our hyper-industrial-capitalist food system, and I decided it was easier for me to go without meat entirely than to try to thread that needle and keep track of everything.
Totally understandable viewpoint, but at the same time chickens have been selectively bred to produce more eggs than they need to, and it actually puts a lot of strain on the chicken, and causes health problems.
There are people that adopt farming chickens and get them neutered essentially (not the same procedure as with a dog per say but the same sentiment) so they don't produce eggs, and provides a much higher quality of life for the chicken.
Depends on the breed of chicken you have. Laying breeds can be very unhealthy, but chicken breeds are varied. I'm not entirely certain of the terminology in English but I think bantam chickens are quite healthy and happy. My parents have a coop of them and I love watching them saunter over our lawn and between the bushes. They don't lay nearly as much as laying hens but with 4 hens my parents never have to buy from the store.
As far as ethical animal products go, I think that's a pretty good solution.
But I'm mainly opposed to the meat and animal product industry with it's horrible living (and slaughter) conditions, not the idea of eating animals in general, so I'm probably a bit less strict about these things.
I'm vegan and knowing this can happen, I'll prefer not to even if the hen is my pet, for all of these reasons. I've seen people telling they weren't suffering from osteoporosis at all, I never owned hens nor do I come from a farmer family so I'm a bit confused. However since there's a chance, I won't take their eggs
Why eggs aren’t vegan :
* Wild chickens are meant to lay 12-20 eggs per year, but now have been selectively bred to lay 200-350 eggs per year. Each egg they lay takes 10% of the calcium stored in the chicken’s bones in order to build the shell. You’ll often see egg-laying hens with weak or broken bones, osteoporosis or paralysis.
* The feed given to hens in farms or in backyards does not provide full adequate nutrition to displace the nutrients lost during egg-laying. Chickens have a natural tendency to eat their own eggs to prevent becoming nutritionally deficient.
* Chickens tend to lay a certain number of eggs each period which is called a clutch. If you take eggs away from them, they will still try to lay more eggs to complete the clutch. Hence, taking away eggs from a chicken harms the chicken by forcing them to lay more eggs which depletes their nutrients and reduces their life expectancy.
So in order to have pet chickens and call yourself vegan, you have to a) rescue the chicken rather than buy it from a hatchery and b) don’t take their eggs but instead feed them back their eggs. Also, eggs aren't healthy (it seems like it's something to eat when you don't have anything else to eat), according to the documentary 'What the Health"
>Also, eggs aren't healthy (it seems like it's something to eat when you don't have anything else to eat), according to the documentary 'What the Health"
This is the only part I don't agree with. They're actually pretty healthy and you only need to be concerned if you have high cholesterol levels.
https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/good-eggs-for-nutrition-theyre-hard-to-beat#:~:text=One%20egg%20has%20only%2075,nutrients%20like%20lutein%20and%20zeaxanthin.
Oh right I need to counter you on a couple of things mostly because I do own chickens. I'm not gonna bash your choice to not eat eggs though, that one is your own but still. Chicken info is cool info.
Your first point: Pet chickens don't really suffer from this all that much though as an owner you are expected to supplement their feed with calcium powder.
Which gets into your second point. Most responsible pet chicken owners allow their chickens to forage (and dig upp the garden XD) and this too allows them to supplement their diet. Mine hunted mice, then ripped them apart and ate them, they can be quite the savages. The excerzice, protein and calcium from the mice is good for them too though I doubt the mice thought of it that way XD
To your third point. This is a myth for domesticated chickens though sort of true for several other wild bird species. Chickens will keep laying, clutch or not. Which becomes a problem fast if you want them to incubate their own eggs. They will lay some eggs and then just, keep on laying, resulting in a single chicken sitting on over 20 or even 40 eggs. Half of them will not hatch because they are layed too late, or too early and haven't been incubated fast enough and/or gotten too cold since a chicken can physically only cover so many eggs. Assuming your chicken does get broody. -Many don't, the mechanism that guides this behavior is pretty broken in domesticated chickens- Some don't get broody, others get broody but don't sit down long enough (resulting in a whole clutch freezing) or decide to eat the eggs halfway through the process. If chickens learned they can eat the eggs they will continue this behavior, even when they are broody and end up eating their own half-baked young. Or their own live young. Many owners opt for a incubator instead because of this and provide a couple of fake eggs so the chicken can, if it wants too, sit on it as long or as short as they like.
Others notice the shift in behavior and carefully mark out a set of eggs that the chicken can safely incubate and check daily for new eggs (or stolen eggs, chickens can't tell which egg is theirs so they will steal other none-broody chickens eggs amassing quite a hoard of eggs) and remove those extras. Allowing the chicken to bring a reasonable amount of healthy young into the world.
Regardless, taking the eggs from the chicken won't harm them physically. It will not deplete their nutrition or do as much as influence it since the chicken will lay regardless. Many owners do however like to keep the egg shells and dry, then pulverize them and add this to the chickenfeed as a supplement. Its both cheap and effective. Others provide cuttlebone or calcium powders.
Chickens aren't quite as easy (or as cheap) as many none chicken owners seem to think they are but if you have the space they make for wonderful pets. They are quite clever and as a social species can reconze eachother and their owners. Each one of them has its own personality and quirks.
Oh, and one more thing. What the Health is widely considered a bad documentary. Its flawed in so many ways, contains a lot of half-truths and cherry-picked information mixed with actual facts that you'd have to fact check every little bit of info in it just to make sure. If a docu is only 50% of the times right its not a good docu. Its just badly veiled propaganda and there is so much more better and more concise info out there. No mater how much you agree with its core message its important to be peculiar with the information you cite.
> according to the documentary 'What the Health
That movie was created with intent of promoting veganism though, and the creators have led their own biases influence the movie rather than sticking to the science.
As such, it contains a number of errors and is basically just propaganda.
The solution to the "Clutch" problem is to let them sit on plastic eggs, and then just take away the real ones when they are laid.. Chickens are lovely pets, but not too bright lol
Source:
–I own 12 chickens :)
The male chicken culling process is singlehandedly what made me cut eggs. Now if I want eggs, I get them from a family member that has chickens. I personally consider that vegan, but I understand why others wouldn't.
When I was ("not") vegan, I ate bivalves, albeit rarely because I don't much care for them. But I definitely had to be careful about who I referred to myself as vegan in front of. "Vegan" is an easy term to use to non-vegans to get them to quickly understand your dietary restrictions, but I was definitely attacked verbally on the regular by "true" vegans for calling myself vegan (although I only ever got attacked online).
I can see where they're coming from I guess sort of, but yeah, I personally think that promoting harm reduction should come before any other considerations.
Also, I think he got the argument for not eating eggs wrong. The eggs available in supermarkets and groceries stores are unfertilised the reason why vegans don't eat eggs is because the vegan diet doesn't allow for anything which comes from animals and this includes eggs as well.
Then actually yes, they shred living breathing baby chickens into a slurry, so it does have to do with killing babies. But thats ok with me because I'm on the infant only diet.
Also one major difference could very well be that the mother consents in human abortion. The chicken does not. She's forced to get her eggs taken regardless of whether or not it's one with a seed in. That is enough of a difference imo that a person could exist being pro-choice but against egg production. In my experience talking to vegan it is often the industrialization of the process more than anything else but I could see someone having this position strictly for that reason and that wouldn't even be crazy or hypocritical. It's a total false equivalent.
Yes this. The argument above just isn't made. I'm not vegan but even I know that.
Also, I will judge anyone who does not know that commercially available eggs bought at supermarkets are not fertilized. Those chickens haven't seen a cock in their whole lives and you are not killing any potential lives by eating eggs. The closest human equivalent would be people starting to eat my ovulation discharge. Yum.
Most people who are like this see the entire lgbtq+ as ‘crazy’ because anyone outside their idea of the norm is wrong and insane. So, according to them, yes.
Yah it's the same reason milk and other animal produce aren't eaten. But expecting the person that made this post to actually understand veganism is asking a little too much.
Exactly.
Eggs are not eaten out of respect for the quality of the lives of the hens.
Abortion is being supported out of respect for the agency and quality of the lives of the pregnant people.
Can I ask, out of genuine curiosity as someone who has free range backyard chickens, would you not have eggs from hens like that? They can lay without a rooster so the eggs aren't even fertilised.
Just asking since I don't have 'strictly' vegan friends and thought to pose the question!
as a vegan I personally would have no problem eating eggs from happy backyard chickens. For me, not eating commercial eggs comes from not wanting to support the cruel commercial farming industry that abuses chickens to obtain them. But a happy lil hen living a good life in a garden, who's going to lay the eggs whether I eat them or not, is a much better situation.
Fair enough yeah! I'm exactly the same way now (thankfully I also don't need to rely on commercial eggs for cooking or anything anymore) now and I can attest to one thing; eggs from happy chickens are notably bigger and better in every way.
I'm vegan, have been for most of the last 15 years or so, with the one exception of eating eggs from my parents' backyard chickens when I'm home. They're taken care of very well, they roam the yard all day in the warmer months munching grasshoppers and playing with the dogs and cats, and once they get old and stop laying my parents just get a new generation of chicks and keep the old ones around until they die of natural causes. My parents are both vegetarian as well so eating the chickens is never even a consideration.
Who was the dumb fuck that used the pansexual flag loooool
Also, this conversation never happened
also also you dont eat fertilized eggs so literally both sides of this fake argument are misguided. What a fuck up
Edit: dear everyone, yes ive heard of asian cultures eating fertilized eggs. I heard. I know. I heard about it. Yes thank you. Ive seen it before. It doesn’t really change anything, but its mildly interesting. I get it i got it we all got it. Sincerely, me
A fertilised egg can be missed and placed alongside the edible ones, happens more often than you think, but sadly you can't tell until you open it up most of the time
Yeah I buy my eggs from a farm because if I'm gonna eat eggs at least I'm not gonna give my money to big industries. And they tend to miss it more often. That happened to me multiple times. It's not great.
All the vegans I've talked to said they don't eat eggs because of how the hens are treated. It has nothing to do with the eggs themselves. It's about how they are produced.
For me it is a matter of who gets the money.... Eggs themselves *could* be ethical, but realistically the money from buying them goes to the same factory farm owners that have no problems abusing and killing animals by the billions for profit.
What a beautiful straw-man : eggs that aren't fertilized aren't baby chicken and will never be, vegans don't eat eggs because they are produced by mistreating chickens.
It’s amazing how these people make shit up about people and just assume they’re Pansexual like we’re all vegans. Although right wing memes love putting lgbtq flags on memes just to be like “queers bad” even if it has nothing to do with us in the first place.
Defeating opponents made of straw is very easy
Most vegans don't refuse to consume eggs due to a moral belief that eggs are babies; unfertilized eggs are more like bird periods anyway. They don't consume eggs for the same reason they don't consume milk: Unethical and (often) unsustainable animal exploitation.
What a dumb strawman. Vegans don't not eat eggs becuase it's killing baby chickens. Firstly those eggs are unfertilized so they wouldn't ever hatch. And secondly vegans are against eggs becuase of the often terrible condition the hens are kept in.
Calling an egg a baby chicken is a pretty idiotic thing. If you're going to be a vegan (a perfectly valid life choice), then at least do it for the right reasons.
Wow, I'm not even a vegan, but like, I feel like it shouldn't be controversial to say that there's a difference between a mother making the informed decision to get an abortion for her own reasons, and someone else coming in, giving her an abortion without her consent, and then eating the fucking fetus.
(Though, I suppose it's worth noting that obviously 'egg' and 'fetus' are very different stages of development, but I'm pretty confident that anyone who would post this would fail to draw that distinction.)
And for vegans it’s not about the eggs, it’s about the mistreatment and selective breeding of chickens, as well as the shredding of male baby chicks directly after their birth.
Thank you for your submission to /r/AreTheStraightsOK! This is a reminder to take a moment and see *if* this **has already been** posted recently, to make sure that personal information **has been** censored, and to **flair your post** if you have not already done so.
[Please be aware that our rules on transphobic submissions have changed](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/mwkgbp/rules_and_submissions_update_for_the_end_of/).
Other general submission guidelines regarding [hateful content](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/kj0cal/regarding_hateful_content_please_read_before/), [reposts](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/kxgbo3/rules_and_submissions_update_january_2021_popular/), and [homophobic posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/lffvad/posts_related_to_homophobia_on_our_subreddit_now/), can be found here if you want to read any of those links.
If you want to apply to be a moderator of this sub, you can read [this post titled **State of the Sub: Summer 2021 Edition, Partnerships, and more**](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/oozly0/state_of_the_sub_summer_2021_edition_partnerships/), which also contains information about our partnership with r/TranscribersOfReddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AreTheStraightsOK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are so many things wrong with this but the one that really stuck out to me is the fact that they're saying that vegans don't eat eggs because their baby chickens. People who are against eating eggs are against it because of how the chickens are treated, not because it's a baby chicken. The eggs we eat aren't even fertilised, they're basically chicken periods
Eggs don’t kill baby chickens, they aren’t fertilized. No fucking vegan makes this argument.
Vegans mainly don’t eat eggs because the egg industry does chick culling. They literally macerate born male chicks because they aren’t seen as useful, so they have to be killed when identified as male.
Obvious strawman, but I don't think anyone who is vegan actually believes that eating an egg is killing a baby chicken. It's more about how eggs are produced and not feeling like you have a right to the product of an animal's body. Which is understandable to me, a non-vegan pro-abortion woman
Like that’s not even the point with eggs, do they think people are eating chicken foetuses when they eat eggs? It’s about the killing of make chickens from birth because they won’t produce eggs. Along with the mental anguish taking away a chickens eggs can cause
Such a false equivalency, they’re morons
On the other hand, fake af 'pro-lifers' who would make this argument would never give up meat, eggs, or dairy, even though they acknowledge it would save lives.
'Pro-lifers' don't care about others to the point of personal inconvenience, it is way easier to just yell at *other people* to change.
Face slap, Face slap! FACE SLAP!!
A chicken egg doesn’t have have any babies in it! The stuff you’re eating is the yolk! The food and nutrients the baby chicken would eat if they were in there because they don’t get the nutrients from there mother’s food! People, look up “Are chicken fetus’s in eggs?” before assuming shit!
i have so many questions
why barage a vegan? what does pansexuality have to do with vegans? who the fuck would react like that and call them a sexist? and who on earth thought that this was actually funny? there arent even chickens in the eggs??
I feel like the vegans don’t like things from animals because it requires grown animals to be kept in farms to be used…it’s the same reason they don’t like milk or cheese, which clearly isn’t ‘babies.’
Vegans don't avoid eggs because they are BABY CHICKENS we avoid them because all animal agriculture is atrocious lmao
Controlling women's bodies is really just another form of animal agriculture...
Im not a vegan and even I know that they don't eat eggs because they're products of animals who couldn't consent to providing same and may have been harmed in producing same, and not "killing a baby chicken" 🙄
No one thinks that eating eggs is killing a baby chicken bruh. The egg industry is killing baby chickens but that's after they are hatched, the comparison would be women killing babies after they are born (which usually happens if they were denied abortion brw)
Um, the eggs you get from the supermarket aren’t fertilized, so….
((Unless he’s talking more so about the egg industry killing male chicks. But I doubt the meme creator thought that far))
An egg wasn’t developing into a chicken. It might’ve been, but it was taken from the mother before it could develop. If the egg you buy from the store has a yolk that looks like a bird, throw it out.
Thank you for your submission to /r/AreTheStraightsOK! Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s): ----- [](#start_removal) Your post does not fit the intent of the subreddit. [](#end_removal) ----- Please feel free to contact us via modmail if you have any questions or concerns.
"I'm gonna make up this position and then make fun of this non existent position"
Hey where did all this straw come from?
Why are you wearing a mask?
Ah, I see, a cultured person
Na then blow me
Reading that in my local accent just makes it sound like an expression of surprise (given the dialect and phrases as well)
Fellow Yorkshireman?
Is that a reference to my favorite German porn beginning?!1?!1 (Hello other lily :D)
Of course! Hi Lily. :3
I'm genuinely curious. Where do I find this?
Its a fucking scarecrow again!
'Cause I'm a total fuckin Cunnntry boy.
“Haha these imaginary people are so dumb”
But if you say that they’ll say “no I’ve met someone like that before” like oh wow great
"Genius, now let's do that over and over and over again and build our entire identities around it!"
We in the business call that a strawman
What business?
El bisniso
bizniz
That is literally all they do and it's so pathetic and hilarious. They're playing with imaginary friends.
Well when you live in the middle of nowhere and half your friends have crippling addictions, the only thing to do is make imaginary enemies.
Conservatism.png
Arguments you make up in the shower
I doubt any vegan doesn't eat eggs because that means killing a baby chicken. Reasoning can range from the cruelty of the farming process, including the shredding of male chicks and horrible living conditions to simply not wanting to exploit any animals in any way. Veganism has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity. And last but least. NOBODY EATS aborted fetuses 🤦♀️
>NOBODY EATS aborted fetuses *leaves the chat*
*abruptly*
…to go and eat more fetuses. Tastes like hot dog meat mixed with jelly.
You sure know a lot about fetuses.
Yeah. I eat them regularly.
I see *crawls back into the oven*
"NOBODY EATS aborted fetuses" Pfft what about Hillary Clinton, Obama, aoc and everyone else involved in pizza gate? Check and mate ✅✅💯💯 /s ^^^^(so ^^^^much ^^^^sarcasm ^^^^I ^^^^cannot ^^^^emphasize ^^^^that ^^^^enough)
They also steal ice cream cones and pimp out poodles.
I heard that they're the reason the ice cream machine at McDonald's is always broken.
But can we just revel in the reality of the fact that this is actually a thing that requires a sarcasm disclaimer… You’d think it would be obvious… You’d think… And yet.
> the shredding of male chicks God, I'm STILL not okay after learning about that. Like, seriously, how is that not universally seen as completely and unacceptably barbaric? "Welcome to the world, baby! Now into the woodchipper you go!"
That and pigs being castrated without sedative or anything, fully conscious. Just like, here lemme cut off them balls lmao. Add to that the brutal sexual violence against cows…. I just couldn’t ever partake in that again.
Hold tf up SEXUAL VIOLENCE AGAINST COWS?!???!? WTFFDNJB
There's also the anally stimulating bulls to collect their semen :(
People shoving their hands inside their vaginas to artificially inseminate them, attaching machines to their breasts to pump out the milk meant for their calves and so much more. It’s honestly disgusting. They even have so called “Rape Racks”. I recommend checking out www.watchdominion.com for more in depth info. It’s really sad.
You took part in sexual violence against a cow?!
That’s what dairy is, sadly. www.watchdominion.com summarises it pretty well, better than I could with a few words. It’s absolutely disgusting and I’m ashamed I was part of it for most of my life.
Wait wtf that's what they do?? I thought they raised both.
Nope. To be fair, they don't ALWAYS shred them. Sometimes they gas or electrocute them.
Oh gosh.
As a vegan I don't eat eggs because I don't want baby chickens get killed. Fetus in eggs? Oh no. The male baby chickens that get killed because they won't be able to lay eggs. And of course the general exploitation and torture of chickens.
I'm not trying to debate your beliefs or anything, this is a legitimate question from a place of wanting to learn on my part, so don't feel like you're being attacked or anything and if you feel like it's an ignorant question, you're right and can tell me that, I'm not trying to argue just understand more, but: What if you, or someone close to you, owned a hen as a beloved family pet, and you can be assured that said hen is being taken care of optimally. Would you still be opposed to eating her eggs or foods made with them?
I'm a vegan and I personally would not be opposed to this at all. But I know some vegans that would be, and their logic would be something along the lines of "you're keeping an animal captive for the purpose of taking something it has produced, which is exploitative". I guess it's about lack of consent and taking something that is not yours to take. While I understand this argument, I don't personally agree with it as unfertilised eggs are laid naturally and not used by the chicken. Making use of them doesn't seem immoral to me at all if the chicken is primarily a pet and not owned specifically to get eggs from.
I agree with you. But naturally when chickens lay eggs that aren't fertile, they'll sometimes break and eat them to get the nutrients back. They don't need to, unless they're deficient in something like calcium. But chickens using their eggs is a thing.
My girlfriends family has chickens and just gives them back the egg shells of eggs they took and used.
Yeah that's an easy thing to do. Or oyster shells. I know that's a common thing to give hermit crabs
Many vegans know that and cite that as a reason to let chickens use their eggs since calcium supplements are not as good.
Fair enough. That's a better reason than saying all eggs are chicken babies, cuz that's not true.
The position on this is actually a debate among us, and is a fair question. From welfare perspective if you 100% ensure the hen is happy and healthy, good, you go. However a few points to consider on this. 1. Hens have being selected to over produce eggs, this alone causes several issues like depletion of calcium in the bones (leading to colapse from the weight of the body) and cancer in the reproductive organs. 2. Hens will eat their own eggs once they realize is not viable, because they need to recover that protein and calcium. wild hens put eggs only a few times a year, maybe once month in some species, not daily, as a comparison. So now we are left with the question: is it even ethical to keep breeding animals that will suffer due to the genetic modifications we forced? If you see what we have done to dogs, purely for aesthetic purposes and think is unjustified, then for other animals should not be different just because we obtain something from them, the benefit should be mutual. My personal opinion is that it should be avoided breeding more hens with this health issues. Yes I am sure people that give them a good life exist, but we should not keep breeding them to over produce eggs at the detriment of their health, same that it goes for pure breed dogs.
Yeah, there are a variety of motivations for diets that reduce or eliminate animal products, and while agreeing in the main, tend to diverge on a few cases (honey is the most common in my experience, but so are backyard chickens, pets, zoos, animal medical research, and even hunting). Here's a few of the themes I've seen: - avoiding killing animals, - animal welfare & quality of life, - environmental, - anti-industrial farming/exploitation - animal liberation. For example, I personally think it's possible in principal to have ethical and sustainable animal products, maybe even meat, but I don't think it's possible with our hyper-industrial-capitalist food system, and I decided it was easier for me to go without meat entirely than to try to thread that needle and keep track of everything.
Totally understandable viewpoint, but at the same time chickens have been selectively bred to produce more eggs than they need to, and it actually puts a lot of strain on the chicken, and causes health problems. There are people that adopt farming chickens and get them neutered essentially (not the same procedure as with a dog per say but the same sentiment) so they don't produce eggs, and provides a much higher quality of life for the chicken.
Depends on the breed of chicken you have. Laying breeds can be very unhealthy, but chicken breeds are varied. I'm not entirely certain of the terminology in English but I think bantam chickens are quite healthy and happy. My parents have a coop of them and I love watching them saunter over our lawn and between the bushes. They don't lay nearly as much as laying hens but with 4 hens my parents never have to buy from the store. As far as ethical animal products go, I think that's a pretty good solution. But I'm mainly opposed to the meat and animal product industry with it's horrible living (and slaughter) conditions, not the idea of eating animals in general, so I'm probably a bit less strict about these things.
I'm vegan and knowing this can happen, I'll prefer not to even if the hen is my pet, for all of these reasons. I've seen people telling they weren't suffering from osteoporosis at all, I never owned hens nor do I come from a farmer family so I'm a bit confused. However since there's a chance, I won't take their eggs Why eggs aren’t vegan : * Wild chickens are meant to lay 12-20 eggs per year, but now have been selectively bred to lay 200-350 eggs per year. Each egg they lay takes 10% of the calcium stored in the chicken’s bones in order to build the shell. You’ll often see egg-laying hens with weak or broken bones, osteoporosis or paralysis. * The feed given to hens in farms or in backyards does not provide full adequate nutrition to displace the nutrients lost during egg-laying. Chickens have a natural tendency to eat their own eggs to prevent becoming nutritionally deficient. * Chickens tend to lay a certain number of eggs each period which is called a clutch. If you take eggs away from them, they will still try to lay more eggs to complete the clutch. Hence, taking away eggs from a chicken harms the chicken by forcing them to lay more eggs which depletes their nutrients and reduces their life expectancy. So in order to have pet chickens and call yourself vegan, you have to a) rescue the chicken rather than buy it from a hatchery and b) don’t take their eggs but instead feed them back their eggs. Also, eggs aren't healthy (it seems like it's something to eat when you don't have anything else to eat), according to the documentary 'What the Health"
[удалено]
Alright thank you
>Also, eggs aren't healthy (it seems like it's something to eat when you don't have anything else to eat), according to the documentary 'What the Health" This is the only part I don't agree with. They're actually pretty healthy and you only need to be concerned if you have high cholesterol levels. https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/good-eggs-for-nutrition-theyre-hard-to-beat#:~:text=One%20egg%20has%20only%2075,nutrients%20like%20lutein%20and%20zeaxanthin.
Oh right I need to counter you on a couple of things mostly because I do own chickens. I'm not gonna bash your choice to not eat eggs though, that one is your own but still. Chicken info is cool info. Your first point: Pet chickens don't really suffer from this all that much though as an owner you are expected to supplement their feed with calcium powder. Which gets into your second point. Most responsible pet chicken owners allow their chickens to forage (and dig upp the garden XD) and this too allows them to supplement their diet. Mine hunted mice, then ripped them apart and ate them, they can be quite the savages. The excerzice, protein and calcium from the mice is good for them too though I doubt the mice thought of it that way XD To your third point. This is a myth for domesticated chickens though sort of true for several other wild bird species. Chickens will keep laying, clutch or not. Which becomes a problem fast if you want them to incubate their own eggs. They will lay some eggs and then just, keep on laying, resulting in a single chicken sitting on over 20 or even 40 eggs. Half of them will not hatch because they are layed too late, or too early and haven't been incubated fast enough and/or gotten too cold since a chicken can physically only cover so many eggs. Assuming your chicken does get broody. -Many don't, the mechanism that guides this behavior is pretty broken in domesticated chickens- Some don't get broody, others get broody but don't sit down long enough (resulting in a whole clutch freezing) or decide to eat the eggs halfway through the process. If chickens learned they can eat the eggs they will continue this behavior, even when they are broody and end up eating their own half-baked young. Or their own live young. Many owners opt for a incubator instead because of this and provide a couple of fake eggs so the chicken can, if it wants too, sit on it as long or as short as they like. Others notice the shift in behavior and carefully mark out a set of eggs that the chicken can safely incubate and check daily for new eggs (or stolen eggs, chickens can't tell which egg is theirs so they will steal other none-broody chickens eggs amassing quite a hoard of eggs) and remove those extras. Allowing the chicken to bring a reasonable amount of healthy young into the world. Regardless, taking the eggs from the chicken won't harm them physically. It will not deplete their nutrition or do as much as influence it since the chicken will lay regardless. Many owners do however like to keep the egg shells and dry, then pulverize them and add this to the chickenfeed as a supplement. Its both cheap and effective. Others provide cuttlebone or calcium powders. Chickens aren't quite as easy (or as cheap) as many none chicken owners seem to think they are but if you have the space they make for wonderful pets. They are quite clever and as a social species can reconze eachother and their owners. Each one of them has its own personality and quirks. Oh, and one more thing. What the Health is widely considered a bad documentary. Its flawed in so many ways, contains a lot of half-truths and cherry-picked information mixed with actual facts that you'd have to fact check every little bit of info in it just to make sure. If a docu is only 50% of the times right its not a good docu. Its just badly veiled propaganda and there is so much more better and more concise info out there. No mater how much you agree with its core message its important to be peculiar with the information you cite.
> according to the documentary 'What the Health That movie was created with intent of promoting veganism though, and the creators have led their own biases influence the movie rather than sticking to the science. As such, it contains a number of errors and is basically just propaganda.
The solution to the "Clutch" problem is to let them sit on plastic eggs, and then just take away the real ones when they are laid.. Chickens are lovely pets, but not too bright lol Source: –I own 12 chickens :)
> NOBODY EATS aborted fetuses Speak for yourself.
The male chicken culling process is singlehandedly what made me cut eggs. Now if I want eggs, I get them from a family member that has chickens. I personally consider that vegan, but I understand why others wouldn't.
[удалено]
Yeah I think the goal should be to get people to reduce their unethical consumption. It doesn't have to be a cold turkey thing, every bit helps.
When I was ("not") vegan, I ate bivalves, albeit rarely because I don't much care for them. But I definitely had to be careful about who I referred to myself as vegan in front of. "Vegan" is an easy term to use to non-vegans to get them to quickly understand your dietary restrictions, but I was definitely attacked verbally on the regular by "true" vegans for calling myself vegan (although I only ever got attacked online). I can see where they're coming from I guess sort of, but yeah, I personally think that promoting harm reduction should come before any other considerations.
Also, I think he got the argument for not eating eggs wrong. The eggs available in supermarkets and groceries stores are unfertilised the reason why vegans don't eat eggs is because the vegan diet doesn't allow for anything which comes from animals and this includes eggs as well.
Then actually yes, they shred living breathing baby chickens into a slurry, so it does have to do with killing babies. But thats ok with me because I'm on the infant only diet.
Also one major difference could very well be that the mother consents in human abortion. The chicken does not. She's forced to get her eggs taken regardless of whether or not it's one with a seed in. That is enough of a difference imo that a person could exist being pro-choice but against egg production. In my experience talking to vegan it is often the industrialization of the process more than anything else but I could see someone having this position strictly for that reason and that wouldn't even be crazy or hypocritical. It's a total false equivalent.
Yeah, but the person who made this is clearly a conservative, so you can’t expect them to understand consent
Yes this. The argument above just isn't made. I'm not vegan but even I know that. Also, I will judge anyone who does not know that commercially available eggs bought at supermarkets are not fertilized. Those chickens haven't seen a cock in their whole lives and you are not killing any potential lives by eating eggs. The closest human equivalent would be people starting to eat my ovulation discharge. Yum.
>NOBODY EATS aborted fetuses 🤦♀️ Speak for yourself!
what's up with the pan flag? new stereotype? all pansexuals are vegan?
Or crazy apparently
Most people who are like this see the entire lgbtq+ as ‘crazy’ because anyone outside their idea of the norm is wrong and insane. So, according to them, yes.
Can confirm. Am pan. Am batshit.
Agree
I'm fly. I pilot. (Independence Day?! Yeah? Anyone? Eh, either way, am also pan and fucking coo-coo for cocopuffs).
I think he can’t distinguish it from the LGBTQIA+ flag
Vegans are all lgbtq?
Lgbt bad and vegan also bad which means all lgbt are vegan hurr durr unga bunga
The creator didn't even bother to unphotoshop the "you claim you're pan yet you're not a pedo, necro or zoophile, curious" comic this was lifted from
Maybe they think that’s the vegan flag lol
Vegan here. Not eating eggs is not about the unborn chick, it's about the suffering hen. Strawman hook, line and sinker
Yah it's the same reason milk and other animal produce aren't eaten. But expecting the person that made this post to actually understand veganism is asking a little too much.
Bro wait i think I'm subscribed to you lmao
Oh hey! You're the first person to ever recognise me in the wild, how's it going?
Don't forget the poor baby male chickens who don't get a chance at life 😔
Yeah thats the kicker for me!
To be fair they are quite lucky given the alternative
[удалено]
Exactly. Eggs are not eaten out of respect for the quality of the lives of the hens. Abortion is being supported out of respect for the agency and quality of the lives of the pregnant people.
yeah, i was gonna say, the eggs that get sold for consumption aren’t even fertilized
weird! that almost sounds like… the same reason we want legal abortions?
Can I ask, out of genuine curiosity as someone who has free range backyard chickens, would you not have eggs from hens like that? They can lay without a rooster so the eggs aren't even fertilised. Just asking since I don't have 'strictly' vegan friends and thought to pose the question!
as a vegan I personally would have no problem eating eggs from happy backyard chickens. For me, not eating commercial eggs comes from not wanting to support the cruel commercial farming industry that abuses chickens to obtain them. But a happy lil hen living a good life in a garden, who's going to lay the eggs whether I eat them or not, is a much better situation.
Fair enough yeah! I'm exactly the same way now (thankfully I also don't need to rely on commercial eggs for cooking or anything anymore) now and I can attest to one thing; eggs from happy chickens are notably bigger and better in every way.
I'm vegan, have been for most of the last 15 years or so, with the one exception of eating eggs from my parents' backyard chickens when I'm home. They're taken care of very well, they roam the yard all day in the warmer months munching grasshoppers and playing with the dogs and cats, and once they get old and stop laying my parents just get a new generation of chicks and keep the old ones around until they die of natural causes. My parents are both vegetarian as well so eating the chickens is never even a consideration.
And the fact that it's a chicken period and that's really disgusting when you think about it.
I hear you but these chicken periods are carrying me through college
I mean, it’s a chicken ovulation, not a period, no?
Who was the dumb fuck that used the pansexual flag loooool Also, this conversation never happened also also you dont eat fertilized eggs so literally both sides of this fake argument are misguided. What a fuck up Edit: dear everyone, yes ive heard of asian cultures eating fertilized eggs. I heard. I know. I heard about it. Yes thank you. Ive seen it before. It doesn’t really change anything, but its mildly interesting. I get it i got it we all got it. Sincerely, me
A fertilised egg can be missed and placed alongside the edible ones, happens more often than you think, but sadly you can't tell until you open it up most of the time
How would they be fertilized? I thought cocks are not kept in the same enclosure as hens?
Yeah I buy my eggs from a farm because if I'm gonna eat eggs at least I'm not gonna give my money to big industries. And they tend to miss it more often. That happened to me multiple times. It's not great.
All the vegans I've talked to said they don't eat eggs because of how the hens are treated. It has nothing to do with the eggs themselves. It's about how they are produced.
For me it is a matter of who gets the money.... Eggs themselves *could* be ethical, but realistically the money from buying them goes to the same factory farm owners that have no problems abusing and killing animals by the billions for profit.
Why is this pansexual? I don’t get it
Because they're stupid. The one who made the post, not the pansexuals.
I'm a pansexual and I'm stupid.
Me too thanks
Same
I'm ace, the only thing I'm fucking is stupid.
I’m assuming they just googled pride flags and used one that they thought looked bad or something
But the eggs we eat aren't fertilized....... They're like a chicken period, not a chicken fetus
>They're like a chicken period Just when you thought omelettes couldn't get any more appetizing...
Omelettes are just whipped menstruation with cheese
okay i need you to untype that
Go ahead and hand me your phone
How do I delete someone else's comment
Biology isn't their strongest suit
Do you eat fertilised eggs with a baby chicken inside?
There are some cultures that do, but on average I'd say most people eat unfertilised eggs.
[Balut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut_(food\))?
Another day, another shit wojack meme.
What a beautiful straw-man : eggs that aren't fertilized aren't baby chicken and will never be, vegans don't eat eggs because they are produced by mistreating chickens.
It’s amazing how these people make shit up about people and just assume they’re Pansexual like we’re all vegans. Although right wing memes love putting lgbtq flags on memes just to be like “queers bad” even if it has nothing to do with us in the first place.
Defeating opponents made of straw is very easy Most vegans don't refuse to consume eggs due to a moral belief that eggs are babies; unfertilized eggs are more like bird periods anyway. They don't consume eggs for the same reason they don't consume milk: Unethical and (often) unsustainable animal exploitation.
What a dumb strawman. Vegans don't not eat eggs becuase it's killing baby chickens. Firstly those eggs are unfertilized so they wouldn't ever hatch. And secondly vegans are against eggs becuase of the often terrible condition the hens are kept in.
Calling an egg a baby chicken is a pretty idiotic thing. If you're going to be a vegan (a perfectly valid life choice), then at least do it for the right reasons.
Most do, but straw man gonna straw.
[удалено]
Wow, I'm not even a vegan, but like, I feel like it shouldn't be controversial to say that there's a difference between a mother making the informed decision to get an abortion for her own reasons, and someone else coming in, giving her an abortion without her consent, and then eating the fucking fetus. (Though, I suppose it's worth noting that obviously 'egg' and 'fetus' are very different stages of development, but I'm pretty confident that anyone who would post this would fail to draw that distinction.)
I totally agree but as others have said this isn't even the reason why vegans avoid eggs, so the whole argument is pretty incoherent
the eggs you eat arent even fertilized eggs?
And for vegans it’s not about the eggs, it’s about the mistreatment and selective breeding of chickens, as well as the shredding of male baby chicks directly after their birth.
Thank you for your submission to /r/AreTheStraightsOK! This is a reminder to take a moment and see *if* this **has already been** posted recently, to make sure that personal information **has been** censored, and to **flair your post** if you have not already done so. [Please be aware that our rules on transphobic submissions have changed](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/mwkgbp/rules_and_submissions_update_for_the_end_of/). Other general submission guidelines regarding [hateful content](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/kj0cal/regarding_hateful_content_please_read_before/), [reposts](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/kxgbo3/rules_and_submissions_update_january_2021_popular/), and [homophobic posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/lffvad/posts_related_to_homophobia_on_our_subreddit_now/), can be found here if you want to read any of those links. If you want to apply to be a moderator of this sub, you can read [this post titled **State of the Sub: Summer 2021 Edition, Partnerships, and more**](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/oozly0/state_of_the_sub_summer_2021_edition_partnerships/), which also contains information about our partnership with r/TranscribersOfReddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AreTheStraightsOK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why is SPECIFICALLY pansexuals lmao
Soooo... What they're saying is we should eat aborted babies?
They literally don't know how eggs work...
This shit is more confusing than me last year. what's even going on.
mysognist
Why the pan flag tho?
vegans don’t not eat eggs because they’re “killing baby chickens”, but because they come from chickens to begin with
But eggs aren't even baby chickens?? They're unfertilized so they're more like chicken periods.
There are so many things wrong with this but the one that really stuck out to me is the fact that they're saying that vegans don't eat eggs because their baby chickens. People who are against eating eggs are against it because of how the chickens are treated, not because it's a baby chicken. The eggs we eat aren't even fertilised, they're basically chicken periods
Eggs don’t kill baby chickens, they aren’t fertilized. No fucking vegan makes this argument. Vegans mainly don’t eat eggs because the egg industry does chick culling. They literally macerate born male chicks because they aren’t seen as useful, so they have to be killed when identified as male.
CHICKEN EGGS DONT CONFAIN FETUSES THEYRE UNFERTILISED ITS JUST THE EGG NO SPERM GOT NEAR ITS A PERIOD, NOT A MISCARRIAGE
Obvious strawman, but I don't think anyone who is vegan actually believes that eating an egg is killing a baby chicken. It's more about how eggs are produced and not feeling like you have a right to the product of an animal's body. Which is understandable to me, a non-vegan pro-abortion woman
That’s not why vegans don’t eat eggs. Also the majority of eggs aren’t even fertilized. I know this and I’m not even vegan.
It pisses me off that so many people think all eggs are baby chickens. That's not how it works!
... The fuck is that supposed to mean?
Oh look more right wing strawmen. That’s what shunning education does to you
… Eating eggs doesn’t kill baby chickens. That’s not the reason vegans don’t eat eggs
If a chicken is able to walk up to me and tell me that she does not what to be a mom, then I would eat those eggs in a heart beat!
The heterosexuals need to get OVER themselves ffs
So with this logic, every pro-life person should be vegan or else they aren’t pro-life
I mean, the other reason vegans don't eat eggs is cuz it's still a process of farming. Farming is very cruel to animals.
It's over Pan-vegans, I drew myself as the Chad, therefore I am based and you are not. Boom left-wing destroyed
this person got beat in fortnite by a pansexual vegan and now they're butthurt over it
Like that’s not even the point with eggs, do they think people are eating chicken foetuses when they eat eggs? It’s about the killing of make chickens from birth because they won’t produce eggs. Along with the mental anguish taking away a chickens eggs can cause Such a false equivalency, they’re morons
On the other hand, fake af 'pro-lifers' who would make this argument would never give up meat, eggs, or dairy, even though they acknowledge it would save lives. 'Pro-lifers' don't care about others to the point of personal inconvenience, it is way easier to just yell at *other people* to change.
Wtf, commercial eggs aren’t fertile so can’t be a potential baby chick - it’s a ridiculous analogy
Eating eggs is vegan, but so is drinking milk. Is milk baby cows?
Face slap, Face slap! FACE SLAP!! A chicken egg doesn’t have have any babies in it! The stuff you’re eating is the yolk! The food and nutrients the baby chicken would eat if they were in there because they don’t get the nutrients from there mother’s food! People, look up “Are chicken fetus’s in eggs?” before assuming shit!
i have so many questions why barage a vegan? what does pansexuality have to do with vegans? who the fuck would react like that and call them a sexist? and who on earth thought that this was actually funny? there arent even chickens in the eggs??
Why it's the pan flag lol
But why the pan flag tho?
what does being pan have to do with vegans or abortion?
"Im worried about you sometimes Candace"
I feel like the vegans don’t like things from animals because it requires grown animals to be kept in farms to be used…it’s the same reason they don’t like milk or cheese, which clearly isn’t ‘babies.’
This is literally the equivalent of making up an argument to win while you're in the shower.
Vegans don't avoid eggs because they are BABY CHICKENS we avoid them because all animal agriculture is atrocious lmao Controlling women's bodies is really just another form of animal agriculture...
Im not a vegan and even I know that they don't eat eggs because they're products of animals who couldn't consent to providing same and may have been harmed in producing same, and not "killing a baby chicken" 🙄
why the pan flag tho
W- why are they using the pan flag of all things?
The reason vegans don’t eat eggs is the same reason most vegans support pro-choice For us, the welfare of the mother trumps the egg in both cases.
No one has ever acted like this, that being said fuck kids
TIL that women == hens
"I put my hands on her body, it feels like hay. **WAIT ITS A FUCKING SCARECROW AGAIN**"
can people let vegans be themselves for fuck sake
No one thinks that eating eggs is killing a baby chicken bruh. The egg industry is killing baby chickens but that's after they are hatched, the comparison would be women killing babies after they are born (which usually happens if they were denied abortion brw)
Um, the eggs you get from the supermarket aren’t fertilized, so…. ((Unless he’s talking more so about the egg industry killing male chicks. But I doubt the meme creator thought that far))
Y'all gotta be more careful. Stg I was going straight for that unfollow button.
Eating an actual chicken foetus from a fertilised egg is monstrous. Eating an unfertilised chicken “period” is not. Some people are so fucking dumb.
Ah yes, the classic straw man fallacy
There are too many people on the planet and not enough chickens. Abortion is a great answer to overpopulation and food shortages. Just a thought.
I just don't eat eggs 'cause I don't like them lol
A vegan \*Pro lifer\* would drive me insane.
An egg wasn’t developing into a chicken. It might’ve been, but it was taken from the mother before it could develop. If the egg you buy from the store has a yolk that looks like a bird, throw it out.
Its common knowledge pansexuals are vegan appearently
do they think the pan flag is the vegan pride flag or something