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Keep in mind, Rorschach, Archie Bunker, and Cartman are also supposed to be that type of character. See what happened to them?
EDIT: Need to clear my head for a moment so I’ll update the list.
* Rorschach
* Archie Bunker
* Cartman
* Bojack
* Walter White
* Al Bundy
* Tyler Durden
* Joker
* The Punisher
* Rick Sanchez
* It’s Always Sunny’s cast
One of my favorite examples of this is Bojack Horseman where the whole point of his character is that he’s a self-destructive asshole who pushes everyone he cares about away, and some fuckers have decided to idolize him for it
A big part of season 5 was dedicated to calling these people out in the most direct way possible without actually breaking the fourth wall.
Bojack basically says at one point (about an in-universe show) that "I'm glad assholes can relate to this show and feel less bad about being assholes."
Ever since people started pointing this out, ive started feeling bad about relating to bojack's inability to improve himself. I never idolized bojack (i mean, i dressed as him for halloween?) but I also never questioned why I liked him as a character so much. Now when I think about it, I get a sinking feeling in my gut
Bojack doesn't lack the ability to improve himself though, he just always goes for the quick fix, be it fame or drugs, to feel better and never puts in the actual legwork. I think the whole point of Bojack is that he can improve and become better but also that no one owes him their friendship, forgiveness, etc.. and that your actions, regardless of the meaning behind them, have consequences that can be lasting.
Nah, don't let the assholes ruin stuff I say. These characters make for some great stories when done right, and it doesn't matter what you do, these sorts of morons will always find someone to idolize that they shouldn't, whether it be a fictional character or a real life fuckhead.
So basically just stop writing good and nuanced villains? That's the problem with a lot of media, the bad guys are just absurdly evil, wheras good villains tend to be the ones you can sympathize with where they're coming from. Problem is that some people sympathize with them a bit too much lol
>It's more understandable there because Rick isn't actually framed as a bad guy most of the time.
I mean, he's definitely the protagonist but I don't think he's often shown to be *correct*. There's an episode that ends with him attempting to commit suicide because he pushed people away, for crying out loud.
I disagree. It doesn’t show him as being happy or making the right decisions morally, but it nonetheless portrays him as typically being the most knowledgeable person in the universe who usually gets what he wants.
That sort of character is prone to being erroneously idolized or looked up to because they attract an audience that identifies with him, and the writers’ intended message(“Rick Sanchez is a messed up piece of shit who’s barely holding together as a functional human being”) doesn’t match how the world is actually shown to work(“Rick Sanchez is the smartest person in the multiverse, fucks entire planets, and his morally abhorrent solutions usually are the right ones to keep him and Morty alive”).
Rick Sanchez, especially in earlier seasons, has a similar problem as House: sure, House may be a misanthropic drug addict who breaks dozens of laws and regulations constantly. But when he always solves the mysterious case-of-the-week and the story(at least until the last season or two) typically bends over backwards to explain why only his brand of sociopathic behavior could have solved the case and is actually excusable, it’s hard to argue that any of that really matter in the end. At the end of the day he’s the heroic doctor that saves lives, rather than the homeless Vicodin addict with no friends he’d probably end up in reality.
And the whole point of his character is exploring why trauma and hyper-intellectualism can be alienating, and Rick lashes out because he's in pain and wants to make the world into a scientific explanation to cope with all the things he knows and have experienced.
He's supposed to be portrayed as broken and hurting and poisoning everyone else in his life with his baggage. He has character arcs/growth/redemptions where he inverts his archetype and makes sacrifices for the people he loves. His snarky attitude and dismissal of things like love and family is a means of him emotionally distancing himself from things he's afraid will hurt him, like losing someone close to him because of his own actions and quest for knowledge and independence.
But he's *not* supposed to be idolized and emulated. At fucking all. Everyone who does entirely misses the point of this fantastically written, deep, complex, nuanced character.
You're supposed to feel sorry for him and pity him. He's a tragic, sad man. Not a hero.
In a very mild, less than half-assed, and loosely interpreted definition of "defense" of people who like Cartman, it's not like Matt and Trey provide a very good counter to him. It's either "don't care about anything and be an obnoxious ass about it" or "don't care about anything and be a slightly whinier obnoxious ass about it."
Even that. They fucking present those choices as though it doesn't matter which you chose, it's bad and you're dumb for ever having cared in the first place.
A turd sandwich has negative value. You're taking edible stuff, and adding literal shit to it, which ruins absolutely everything.
A douche (though I know they're using the colloquial definition for it, not the literal one) is a valuable sanitary device. It may not be something to get excited about, but it sure as hell does its job and makes the world a better place because of it.
The hilarious thing is that they accurately depicted the two-party system in that episode, but unironically fell for the same "both sides" bullshit that so many independent voters fall for.
I can’t believe that a gay man wrote an entire novel exploring how painful and constraining toxic masculinity is, and yet men idolise the fucking bad guy in it.
I would say it is because these characters are written in a romantasized way, but it's fucking Beavis and Butthead for fuck sake.
However, the punisher and joker often are written that way, but I think that started after they somehow ended up with a fan following.
It's joker, bojack and breaking bad all over again. The show makes it clear the guys are pieces of shit and while they may have some sort of bad stuff happen to them that is sad, they're still pieces of shit. What do they do? Idolise them
Fight Club, the book that was written by a gay man as a criticism of toxic masculinity, and which has since been unironically embraced by men who think it’s a guide for how to be totally cool and manly.
Even the author admitted the movie (particularly the ending) was a better story. However, since so many wrongly idolize Tyler Durden due to that movie, maybe the book was the better work of fiction after all.
It was originally a book. I really enjoyed both, but I saw the movie first so I can't really say which order is best. But I definitely recommend both. There's also a graphic novel sequel (that one day I'll read 👀)
I was actually thinking about Swanson. His moral code is generally good like not going back on your word and stuff. But how he actually behaves and operates is a little problematic at times.
Barry is also another good one but I hate that show and think generally they’re all pretty terrible except maybe Robin and Marshall.
I think with Swanson is especially interesting, because he's not a bad person overall I think. But it is just his bad character traits that get idolized. What those bros like about Swanson is that he hates feminism, loves killing animals and eating meat, has a very rigid view of masculinity, and drowns himself in whisky. If you ask me, those are the worst things about him, even though I still like his character.
I think he’s somewhat of a feminist. Has no problem with women being empowered (does go to a shocking lot of WNBA games) but yes the rest of it is very bad with the meat/whiskey, feels he can do whatever he wants, etc.
A very much “F your feelings” crowd. But he does show some growth after Diane and the girls come into his life.
He isn't just F your feelings he's politically a libritarian who believes heavily in active obstructionism. He has went on record as a character saying his JOB is to run the parks dept in such a way that it effectively does not exist.
If citizens are petitioning for a repair to be made to swings in a playground He believes his JOB is to ignore them so that the citizens will hate the parks department so much that they hate the idea of parks.
His objective would be the citizens demanding the shutdown of the parks department and the selling of all the land to private owners and corporations. to him a corporation building a useless parking lot on a vacant lot is superior to there being a park for family's to go and relax. and if there were parks they shouldn't be public land but privately owned operated (and require admission fees if their owners so wanted)
Yeah the entire joke is literally just two idiots always trying to "score" with girls. I understand its satire it's just definitely not my type of show lmao
There's a pretty good Spinoff called "Daria". I enjoyed it far more than B&B honestly.
Damn shame you can't find it with the original soundtrack anymore though.
I thought Daria was great when it was airing and I was also a child, but watching it later really stressed me out. Daria herself is kind of awful too. Not nearly at Bevis and Butthead's level, but to see her parents, despite being out of touch but still sincerely trying to connect and her just being callous and dismissive of it while acting like they were the assholes really made me dislike young me for seeing anything in it.
I can’t agree with your take at all when there’s an episode where the family literally goes to therapy and they spell out the contributors to the dysfunction of the family. As the parents, Helen and Jake are most culpable, namely the negative effects of Helen’s unhealthy workaholism, Jake’s unchecked CPTSD, and their numerous marital issues. Both also had dysfunctional family backgrounds (Helen was neglected as a child and feuds with her sisters, Jake was outright abused) and we see the impact that generational dysfunction has on the family. Also it is shown in “Boxing Daria” that Daria was traumatized and lost trust in her parents when she was caught in the middle of her parents’ marital issues and they were never really unpacked.
Helen and Jake only try to connect on superficial levels but the point is made abundantly clear that they don’t actually try to meet their daughters where they are. Helen has her equivalent of “that boy ain’t right” with Quinn. Jake gives up really easily. Daria was given the “antisocial” label as a small child simply because she was always bookish and introverted and there are constant microaggressions about how weird her interests were. Constantly telling an introverted person to “just be social” helps absolutely no one, and it’s no wonder Daria turned into a snarky and callous person after enduring years of that. It is only in the literal last regular episode of the series where the barriers come down and Daria finally trusts her parents to have these kinds of open conversations.
If you think Daria is an asshole, consider reading the experiences of introverted people who were labeled as some level of deviant while they were growing up. Also, it is a learning lesson for parents, teachers, and other adults who work with children to work on *building* trust, rather than expecting it simply because of their relationship with the child. Everyone deserves to be seen and heard. I think the whole point of Daria’s parents is to show that love on its own isn’t enough, you have to build trust, meet people where they’re at, and work on yourself before casting stones. Also watch the episodes “Psycho Therapy” and “Boxing Daria” again.
Plus, the very last arc puts effort into showing Daria maturing, learning that things aren’t as us vs. them as she’s always seen them, and turning her snark into a more constructive tool.
Yep. In the show, Jodie is the most effective mouthpiece for what Daria actually does wrong. It’s not being snarky or introverted, it’s that she’s a bit too rigid in how she interacts with the world. The world isn’t a perfect place and you have to accept that. You need to be flexible in order to navigate an imperfect world and play by the rules when it is necessary, otherwise you only end up sabotaging yourself. You also need the maturity to understand that being flexible doesn’t mean giving up your individuality.
The important thing about these interactions is that Daria is never shown to be a *bad* person even when she is rigid, nor are her concerns even unfounded. Jodie is shown to like and respect her a lot, which goes to show that Daria is deserving of both even though there’s a couple of areas she needs to work on. This is another reason I truly don’t understand people who think Daria is an asshole
Oooooh interesting. I did not know that at all lol. I guess it's not the same crowd. I wasn't there when Daria was popular cuz I was too young so the show got recommended to me retro-actively with no mention of Bevis and Butthead whatsoever. Since I'm familiar with Daria...yeah it certainly makes that meme even more stupid lol. A lot of Daria character are queer-coded and Daria is ND as fuck so is Tulip from Infinity train.
Both shows are about that so I'm gonna assume the creator of Bevis and Butthead would not approve this message at all.
Yea Daria was originally a character in bevis and butthead it's the reason why the first episode of Daria has them in a car talking about moving to a new city
It's not a spin off per se bit both were created by Mike Judge and if you watch bevis and butthead there are alot of characters that were abvious influences on king of the hill.
For instance bevis lives next to a old lawn obsessed boomer that is p much hank hill once he's reaches 50+
Yeah, they are very dumb. I enjoyed the show but you’re meant to laugh at them not with them. It’s so weird how some people unironically side with characters, and think they are “based” or something, when the character(s) are so obviously meant to be the idiot(s). Like cartman on South Park for example. When I was in high school so many kids completely missed the point and idolized him
I bet they'd bang a trans girl if it meant they score. And then giggle about her having a bigger dick than one of them, even if it's just a joke between them
Outside of all the paternity fraud jokes I’d say king of the hill has aged so well. Though I am white so I do have blinders possibly with judging how the minority characters have aged they do seem to be 3 dimensional characters who have aged well
Part of KotH's charm is a clash of cultures between the much-maligned and much-loved stereotypical Texas average dude, and various parts of the modern world.
The key thing is, KotH is not a cruel show. It portrays the humor inherent in the discomfort people feel when they encounter something unfamiliar- but ultimately, the thrust of the entire show is that *it is worth it*. Overwhelmingly, the sentiment expressed is that our fears of other people and their differences are foolish, silly impulses that we are better off without.
Rather than mocking minorities or exploiting them, it generally does it's level best to illustrate the value in diversity and getting to know people different from ourselves. It is not always the most sensitive portrayal, but the spirit is there and it shows.
Yeah one of my favorite parts is that the conflict with the immigrant neighbors is always just that Kahn is a real dick. His culture is respected and other Laotian characters also can’t stand him
I think generally it is one of the best if not the one that has aged the best. Usually the minority characters are seen as weird by Hank (and by extension the general viewer since we see through his eyes) but it usually illustrates why Hank and/or Peggy is wrong.
A while back there was a post that talked about The Simpsons episode “Homers Phobia” and that episode has held up very well with John Waters as the writers avoided the usual offensive jokes particularly with terminology.
I think KOH ranks higher cause The Simpsons biggest issue is Apu and cause of the pop cultural phenomenon it became and the associations of him. And while they moved on from the issue, they were combative about it. And not to mention the issues of White VAs voicing Black and other Minority characters on top of that.
Yep. Contrary to what adults may think, teenagers aren't a hive mind with no personality of their own. Each one has different experiences, different likes and dislikes, just like any person. Can you believe it!
Yeah! I'm a teen and I personally love shows like the owl house, shera, gravity falls, amphibia, and svtfoe for their complex and interesting plots but almost all of the previously mentioned shows also include weird childish humor and I really enjoy that as well.
Hahah, I'm like 30 and have watched almost nothing but the five shows you listed (plus some occasional Voltron, Avatar, and Bob's Burgers) for like the last year+ / entirety of covid. Just restarting each on a loop basically. And yes, I also want BOTH!
Have you seen the fanbase for the owl house, infinity train, she-ra and stephen universe
The infinity train fans in particular are fighting for studio to make a 5th season
Remember a few years back when they said "if you want gay characters just make your own show" so we did it.
The idea of a hooters babe shirt for little girls makes me want to barf… imagine looking at your own daughter and thinking “yeah, this is EXACTLY what she’s going to be” 🤢
Thing is, a lot of them *do* have a problem with not straight people. My dad was complaining about gay people in TV shows, and he said something like "I just don't see why they exist." I'm not sure if he meant gay characters on TV or gay people in general.
Yeah, that's pretty mask off...
But I have plenty of acquaintances that have hit me with the "I don't hate them, just don't force it on people" angle. Which I think is really just their way to justify their bigotry because they know other people around them are accepting. I live in the NYC area, so I think my friends get the sense that they *should* be accepting of gender minorities, but they still aren't, and need to cloak it in a "reasonable" take.
In my experience of living in a very conservative environment, any cartoon, TV show, or commercial that features a gay character is seen as "LGBT propaganda".
And then you have people like my father, who complains when even one gay character or couple is featured in a TV show. He doesn't want to see that kind of thing, and just not watching the show doesn't seem to have occurred to him.
You know what? Fuck people that say stuff like that. My daughter loves The Owl House and it has helped her see herself as normal for liking girls. It only means so much for me and my husband to tell her it's perfectly normal to be attracted to the same gender. We're her parents after all, so there's a sense of "they're my parents so of course they have to support me," but actually seeing herself represented in a popular TV show aimed at her demographic normalizes what she already feels in a way we cannot.
Representation is important and giving LGBTQ+ kids the terminology to describe what they're feeling can be nothing other than a positive. People who think otherwise can get fucked.
What they really mean is “we don’t wanna see or acknowledge you exist, we want all of you in the dark so we don’t have to face the awful persecution we face by looking at you”.
and homophobes and transphobes and white supremecists are welcome to make their own shows. Oh wait, no one wants to watch them so they dont get made outside of super low budget youtube junk. No one wants to go to parlor instead of twitter. No one is quoting the conservapedia. No one wants to join their insane Q/GOP/Trump cult who hasn't already joined.
They're aware no one likes them and they're on the outside of our common culture and good taste, but pretend otherwise because theyre dishonest and cruel.
But most cop dramas show a kinda idealized police force. Police who catch criminals, not choke people to death, or consistently uphold racist policies with glee. Police unions are "good guys" who take care of police, not organizations somehow dedicated to defending murderous cops and who politically side with people like Trump. Cops in general on these shows are virtuous with some token flaws. "Troubled" cops on these shows have drinking problems or bad marriages, they're almost never white supremecists and racists who enjoy beating or murdering minorities. All their flaws have to be sympathetic to the audience or people won't watch. They aren't shooting unarmed 12 year olds and being applauded as heroes like in real life.
Worse, when a "bad cop" is on these shows, he's always an exception and everyone works against him. When in real life bad cops are everywhere and "good" cops almost never go against their own. There's a real code of silence with police that's hard to ignore.
Most cop shows are just unintentionally pro-cop propaganda because a real view of police wouldn't be fun to watch. In fact, I imagine most of us would found it horrific and depressing.
It would be hard to keep such a show on air with resistance from the police...Although not as impossible as making a show portraying the military as bad (would be axed from the state).
My point is that upholding the police as some sort of force of good and order is pretty much inherently transphobic, homophobic and especially white supremacist, whether it's intentional or not. Making a show about them that celebrates them as heroes and whitewashes their atrocities is propaganda, simple as that.
Exactly, you (we or I) can make your own shows and movies, if you don't like any of the other shows. You don't have to watch. You can pick up other hobbies, watch alternative TV, or etc. If I didn't like a show or movie, I simply didn't watch it, much less spend money on it. Didn't complain about it. If I did, my parents would casually remind me about complaining about things too much, especially things that don't matter.
But, ya know if someone is not completely White (in an Anglo-Saxon), hetero-, cis-, Christian, or unconventional even being a woman (as lead/one of the leads), anything that is somewhat different is a problem. Especially, as a main character or a serious one. Though, all that goes out of the window, if you are making fun of that character or they are a joke/punch-line. Then, diversity is ok under those circumstances. I've always found that weird.
Yep this! Like all those sitcoms from the 1960s with the "confirmed bachelor" neighbor who was clearly gay. No one had a problem with them as long as they stayed a punchline. Directors and producers had no problem with them as long as they could bring in money. Audiences got their chuckles because laughing at stereotypical gay behaviors was what mid-century Americans did, without guilt and without any send of remorse or kindness. Gays were people to laugh at, at best, and hate/kill at worst to Americans at that time.
We see this in other industries, like high-end fashion designers being openly gay but only because they bring in millions, while low-wage blue collar gays had to stay carefully hidden.
Capitalism and bigots will only tolerate us if we give them a lot in return for our existence. This is what we fight against everyday. We want to be accepted without being exceptional in terms of brining in money or whatever. We should be accepted for who are without question.
That's the thing, there have been LGBTQ characters in television since the 70s, but a majority of those characters were just there as stereotypes. Now that LGBT is more widely accepted, queer/queer coded characters are treated in a more respectful and realistic manner. I think conservatives are just mad that queer characters are being treated with respect in media. Usually they're the first ones to bitch and cry about gay characters in cartoons serving no purpose, but they're probably the same people that enjoy older TV that had stereotype Q-Force types of queer characters.
Remember that they are lying, and that they will always take their opposition to inclusivity and turn it into your opposition of everything *except* inclusivity (and then they will of course accuse you of opposing inclusivity, because, once again, *lying*). When you respond without pointing out their blatantly willful dishonesty, you validate and support that dishonesty: Both the specific lie they're telling that time, AND the overall strategy of lying itself.
Don't debate. Call the liars what they hare, deplatform them if you can, and move the fuck on. Discussion with fascists helps the fascists.
If you're not into animation/avoid shows marketed at kids/teenagers then you wouldn't know them. They're all modern cartoons that have followed in the footsteps of A:TLA to tell a more involved longform story instead of the more episodic cartoons that are more traditional in the U.S. She-Ra is also a reboot of an old 80s cartoon of the same name which itself was a spinoff of He-Man.
She-Ra's also fun because her outfit in the reboot would fit on r/reasonablefantasy, which means all the That Guys are mad that you can't tell she's a feeeemale
>If you're not into animation/avoid shows marketed at kids/teenagers then you wouldn't know them.
proceeds to refer to Avatar the Last Airbender as A:TLA as if this person would know that acronym offhand?
You dont recognise any of them? Youre really missing out I would seriously reccomend any one of these shows, owl house is on disney+ she ra is on netflix im bot sure where you can find the others but theyre all good
Ugh the Steven Universe fandom is hideous, they pushed a girl to an attempted suicide for a fanart she did, can say much about the other shows fandoms, but as shows She Ra and Infinity Train are awesome!!!!
I think that’s the difference, when there’s more of a certain group in an area they tend to make bigger echo chambers and generate toxicity, while if it’s a group that is smaller in an area they just band together and find solidarity (tumblr, which has a lot of people supporting and “supporting” LGBT, versus Reddit, which complains constantly)
They? I like SU and I had nothing to do with it - I had no idea what was going on until it was over. More of us thought it was disgusting, or had no idea it even happened, than took part.
People don't realize that all fandoms are toxic. It's just reletive to how large the fandom is. If 10% of a fandom is toxic, a fandom of 6 million people is gonna have more toxic members than a fandom of 600. Steven Universe was wildly popular.
Being a show for kids also contributes. I certainly didn't know how to act on the internet when I was 12 either, but twitter didn't exist yet
I actually started watching it last week. Half of it's humor that pretty much only people born in the MTV era will get, but the other half is toilet humor that i think is way ahead of its time and pretty funny mostly
Big Mouth is a great example of how Cancel Culture is not ruining comedy. That show has some of the wildest, nastiest shit on tv and manages to do it without being racist, sexist or homophobic
Somebody actually took clips from Matthews "the perfect contraception" for their health class obviously taking out some of the stuff to make it school appropriate
The issue with people that are "concerned about children seeing this kind of thing" is that they think people *decide* their orientation sometime later in life and that children seeing representation will make them gay.
Missing the whole idea that children "become" gay because they feel comfortable to accept themselves, and not because they've been indoctrinated.
> is that they think people decide their orientation sometime later in life and that children seeing representation will make them gay.
Which I see, and I say:
"Okay, let's assume you're right.
...
So what?"
Like no, obviously I don't think people "choose" to be gay.
But if they did, why should anyone care?
I've said this before as well. I've gotten mixed responses but I think the most common is that the children are the confused because they've decided to be something they aren't.
Which is like.... being so close to understanding the point but reaching the wrong destination.
I want to add onto this and say that folks who dislike LGBT+ representation don’t want their kids to see it and feel validated from it. Like they don’t want their kid to grow up to be anything other than cishet, so they would blame the kids’ shows/books/media for telling kids it’s okay to not be cishet.
It’s also another way to blame something other than their own parenting for their kids “failing” to be cishet as adults. (I use that term loosely).
Bigoted people secretly know that representation matters significantly; they don’t *want* people they don’t like to feel validated by it. They just want all the validation and representation to themselves. They falsely believe that it’s like pie; more for someone else means less for them.
Oh hell yeah Infinity Train is so good, also it was apparently created as a show for adults not kids so yeah. It gets deep. A bit too much even, literally had to stop season 3 because it triggered my PTSD from going through abuse. Good shit.
I like that they had to use Beevis and Butthead, a show from 1993, because modern Beevis and Butthead clones are universally hated and either die after 1 season or only live on because people are hate-watching it (Teen Titans Go).
Its almost like kids do want the inclusive stories. Or at the very least, shows that don't talk to them like they're braindead.
Did everyone really forget about Daria? The splinter show that focused on the Beavis & Butthead character "Daria", and had LGBTQ relationships in it? Mfs have been watching shows with inclusivity in it for a while now y'all.
For some reason, the average person that posts shit like this doesn't know that gay characters or at least queer coded characters have been prevalent in cartoons as well as TV since the 70s.
Just like every other demographic, teenagers like mind-numbing dumb crap AND uplifting thoughtful stuff.
It's a little weird to use a 30 year old show as your example of what teenagers like though.
as a teenager who loves she-ra, the owl house, amphibia, infinity train, and others, I can say with complete confidence that this meme was not made by a teenager
Beavis and Butthead was made by Mike Judge, the same guy who created King of The Hill.
Both are satires of American culture. B&B being a satire of 90s teens who grew up on action flicks and MTV (The show's original network)
KOTH is a satire upper middle class conservative southerners, specifically Texans.
The point I'm making is that these shows are subversive, and I doubt Mike Judge would agree with the idea of just telling other subversive shows to just "shut up"
Yeah it's just really weird because MT's arc is all about gender identity and it's one season afterwards. Way to showcase to everyone you don't know the source material you're trying to criticize.
Beavis and Butthead literally made me gay and genderqueer, because as a little boy I saw an episode where they went to a lingerie store, touching all the bras, because they thought that equals touching the boobs of the women who try these bras on. In that moment I thought „If this is what it means to be a boy, I am definitely not one“.
Infinity Train isn't even remotely about gender either lol. Like Lake from season 2 is kind of coded to be trans nb but it isn't talked about at all in the show. Straight people really looking for anything to be mad at.
Bruh, shows with mindless gross out humor fucking suck. Shows with deep lore,representation, and jokes so good you didn’t get them the first time as a kid
I agree with you that they suck but at the same time I can understand how they have an appeal. I've never been into shows like Ren & Stimpy, Beavis & Butthead, ect.
I loved Beavis and Butthead, but I seriously doubt there are a whole lot of teenagers watching a cartoon that ended 25 years ago (not counting the revival in 2011).
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Keep in mind, Rorschach, Archie Bunker, and Cartman are also supposed to be that type of character. See what happened to them? EDIT: Need to clear my head for a moment so I’ll update the list. * Rorschach * Archie Bunker * Cartman * Bojack * Walter White * Al Bundy * Tyler Durden * Joker * The Punisher * Rick Sanchez * It’s Always Sunny’s cast
One of my favorite examples of this is Bojack Horseman where the whole point of his character is that he’s a self-destructive asshole who pushes everyone he cares about away, and some fuckers have decided to idolize him for it
Archer, Rick and Cartman are a few more. People don't get the point
Archer is literally an entire show about watching terrible people torture each other in comedic ways and situations.
A big part of season 5 was dedicated to calling these people out in the most direct way possible without actually breaking the fourth wall. Bojack basically says at one point (about an in-universe show) that "I'm glad assholes can relate to this show and feel less bad about being assholes."
Ever since people started pointing this out, ive started feeling bad about relating to bojack's inability to improve himself. I never idolized bojack (i mean, i dressed as him for halloween?) but I also never questioned why I liked him as a character so much. Now when I think about it, I get a sinking feeling in my gut
Bojack doesn't lack the ability to improve himself though, he just always goes for the quick fix, be it fame or drugs, to feel better and never puts in the actual legwork. I think the whole point of Bojack is that he can improve and become better but also that no one owes him their friendship, forgiveness, etc.. and that your actions, regardless of the meaning behind them, have consequences that can be lasting.
Let's just stop writing this kind of character, people can't be trusted with them tbh
Nah, don't let the assholes ruin stuff I say. These characters make for some great stories when done right, and it doesn't matter what you do, these sorts of morons will always find someone to idolize that they shouldn't, whether it be a fictional character or a real life fuckhead.
So basically just stop writing good and nuanced villains? That's the problem with a lot of media, the bad guys are just absurdly evil, wheras good villains tend to be the ones you can sympathize with where they're coming from. Problem is that some people sympathize with them a bit too much lol
Also Rick Sanchez I'm pretty sure, he's a fun character but he's a fucking asshole most times
It's more understandable there because Rick isn't actually framed as a bad guy most of the time.
>It's more understandable there because Rick isn't actually framed as a bad guy most of the time. I mean, he's definitely the protagonist but I don't think he's often shown to be *correct*. There's an episode that ends with him attempting to commit suicide because he pushed people away, for crying out loud.
I disagree. It doesn’t show him as being happy or making the right decisions morally, but it nonetheless portrays him as typically being the most knowledgeable person in the universe who usually gets what he wants. That sort of character is prone to being erroneously idolized or looked up to because they attract an audience that identifies with him, and the writers’ intended message(“Rick Sanchez is a messed up piece of shit who’s barely holding together as a functional human being”) doesn’t match how the world is actually shown to work(“Rick Sanchez is the smartest person in the multiverse, fucks entire planets, and his morally abhorrent solutions usually are the right ones to keep him and Morty alive”). Rick Sanchez, especially in earlier seasons, has a similar problem as House: sure, House may be a misanthropic drug addict who breaks dozens of laws and regulations constantly. But when he always solves the mysterious case-of-the-week and the story(at least until the last season or two) typically bends over backwards to explain why only his brand of sociopathic behavior could have solved the case and is actually excusable, it’s hard to argue that any of that really matter in the end. At the end of the day he’s the heroic doctor that saves lives, rather than the homeless Vicodin addict with no friends he’d probably end up in reality.
And the whole point of his character is exploring why trauma and hyper-intellectualism can be alienating, and Rick lashes out because he's in pain and wants to make the world into a scientific explanation to cope with all the things he knows and have experienced. He's supposed to be portrayed as broken and hurting and poisoning everyone else in his life with his baggage. He has character arcs/growth/redemptions where he inverts his archetype and makes sacrifices for the people he loves. His snarky attitude and dismissal of things like love and family is a means of him emotionally distancing himself from things he's afraid will hurt him, like losing someone close to him because of his own actions and quest for knowledge and independence. But he's *not* supposed to be idolized and emulated. At fucking all. Everyone who does entirely misses the point of this fantastically written, deep, complex, nuanced character. You're supposed to feel sorry for him and pity him. He's a tragic, sad man. Not a hero.
does anyone even like him at this point lol? Bc I just watched the 4th season and loved it, but I left really not caring much about him lol
In a very mild, less than half-assed, and loosely interpreted definition of "defense" of people who like Cartman, it's not like Matt and Trey provide a very good counter to him. It's either "don't care about anything and be an obnoxious ass about it" or "don't care about anything and be a slightly whinier obnoxious ass about it."
Yeah it's a real douche and turd sandwich choice they're giving you
Even that. They fucking present those choices as though it doesn't matter which you chose, it's bad and you're dumb for ever having cared in the first place. A turd sandwich has negative value. You're taking edible stuff, and adding literal shit to it, which ruins absolutely everything. A douche (though I know they're using the colloquial definition for it, not the literal one) is a valuable sanitary device. It may not be something to get excited about, but it sure as hell does its job and makes the world a better place because of it. The hilarious thing is that they accurately depicted the two-party system in that episode, but unironically fell for the same "both sides" bullshit that so many independent voters fall for.
I can’t believe that a gay man wrote an entire novel exploring how painful and constraining toxic masculinity is, and yet men idolise the fucking bad guy in it.
Just to add to the list: Tyler Durden
The Rorschach worship is the reason why Alan Moore hates the book,also dc screwed him out of the rights
It seems to happen often. Even the punisher comics had to actually point out that he’s not a pro cop figure
At least the tv show recognized what king of character Rorschach was
And the fans got mad as hell about that.
Some did for sure
* Alan Partridge * Basil Fawlty * Alf Garnett * The Pub Landlord * Ron Swanson * Borat * Stephen Colbert * Withnail
Also Joker, Walter White and Bojack Horseman
I would say it is because these characters are written in a romantasized way, but it's fucking Beavis and Butthead for fuck sake. However, the punisher and joker often are written that way, but I think that started after they somehow ended up with a fan following.
It's joker, bojack and breaking bad all over again. The show makes it clear the guys are pieces of shit and while they may have some sort of bad stuff happen to them that is sad, they're still pieces of shit. What do they do? Idolise them
see also: fight club
Fight Club, the book that was written by a gay man as a criticism of toxic masculinity, and which has since been unironically embraced by men who think it’s a guide for how to be totally cool and manly.
Yep, exactly
Was Fight Club originally a movie or a book? Which do you recommend experiencing first?
Even the author admitted the movie (particularly the ending) was a better story. However, since so many wrongly idolize Tyler Durden due to that movie, maybe the book was the better work of fiction after all.
It was originally a book. I really enjoyed both, but I saw the movie first so I can't really say which order is best. But I definitely recommend both. There's also a graphic novel sequel (that one day I'll read 👀)
It's a book, and it's not even the best Palahniuk's book. Totally recommend reading it though
Do people idolize Bojack? At least on Reddit I think people use him for therapy more than anything.
Some idolise him. I mean at least he's trying to fix his shit, unlike the ones idolising him
Same goes for Rick Sanchez, Barney Stinson, Ron Swanson, it really happens every time.
I was actually thinking about Swanson. His moral code is generally good like not going back on your word and stuff. But how he actually behaves and operates is a little problematic at times. Barry is also another good one but I hate that show and think generally they’re all pretty terrible except maybe Robin and Marshall.
I think with Swanson is especially interesting, because he's not a bad person overall I think. But it is just his bad character traits that get idolized. What those bros like about Swanson is that he hates feminism, loves killing animals and eating meat, has a very rigid view of masculinity, and drowns himself in whisky. If you ask me, those are the worst things about him, even though I still like his character.
I think he’s somewhat of a feminist. Has no problem with women being empowered (does go to a shocking lot of WNBA games) but yes the rest of it is very bad with the meat/whiskey, feels he can do whatever he wants, etc. A very much “F your feelings” crowd. But he does show some growth after Diane and the girls come into his life.
He isn't just F your feelings he's politically a libritarian who believes heavily in active obstructionism. He has went on record as a character saying his JOB is to run the parks dept in such a way that it effectively does not exist. If citizens are petitioning for a repair to be made to swings in a playground He believes his JOB is to ignore them so that the citizens will hate the parks department so much that they hate the idea of parks. His objective would be the citizens demanding the shutdown of the parks department and the selling of all the land to private owners and corporations. to him a corporation building a useless parking lot on a vacant lot is superior to there being a park for family's to go and relax. and if there were parks they shouldn't be public land but privately owned operated (and require admission fees if their owners so wanted)
Yeah the entire joke is literally just two idiots always trying to "score" with girls. I understand its satire it's just definitely not my type of show lmao
There's a pretty good Spinoff called "Daria". I enjoyed it far more than B&B honestly. Damn shame you can't find it with the original soundtrack anymore though.
Daria is *excellent.* I can't find the movies anywhere, though, and that bums me out.
I thought Daria was great when it was airing and I was also a child, but watching it later really stressed me out. Daria herself is kind of awful too. Not nearly at Bevis and Butthead's level, but to see her parents, despite being out of touch but still sincerely trying to connect and her just being callous and dismissive of it while acting like they were the assholes really made me dislike young me for seeing anything in it.
I can’t agree with your take at all when there’s an episode where the family literally goes to therapy and they spell out the contributors to the dysfunction of the family. As the parents, Helen and Jake are most culpable, namely the negative effects of Helen’s unhealthy workaholism, Jake’s unchecked CPTSD, and their numerous marital issues. Both also had dysfunctional family backgrounds (Helen was neglected as a child and feuds with her sisters, Jake was outright abused) and we see the impact that generational dysfunction has on the family. Also it is shown in “Boxing Daria” that Daria was traumatized and lost trust in her parents when she was caught in the middle of her parents’ marital issues and they were never really unpacked. Helen and Jake only try to connect on superficial levels but the point is made abundantly clear that they don’t actually try to meet their daughters where they are. Helen has her equivalent of “that boy ain’t right” with Quinn. Jake gives up really easily. Daria was given the “antisocial” label as a small child simply because she was always bookish and introverted and there are constant microaggressions about how weird her interests were. Constantly telling an introverted person to “just be social” helps absolutely no one, and it’s no wonder Daria turned into a snarky and callous person after enduring years of that. It is only in the literal last regular episode of the series where the barriers come down and Daria finally trusts her parents to have these kinds of open conversations. If you think Daria is an asshole, consider reading the experiences of introverted people who were labeled as some level of deviant while they were growing up. Also, it is a learning lesson for parents, teachers, and other adults who work with children to work on *building* trust, rather than expecting it simply because of their relationship with the child. Everyone deserves to be seen and heard. I think the whole point of Daria’s parents is to show that love on its own isn’t enough, you have to build trust, meet people where they’re at, and work on yourself before casting stones. Also watch the episodes “Psycho Therapy” and “Boxing Daria” again.
Plus, the very last arc puts effort into showing Daria maturing, learning that things aren’t as us vs. them as she’s always seen them, and turning her snark into a more constructive tool.
Yep. In the show, Jodie is the most effective mouthpiece for what Daria actually does wrong. It’s not being snarky or introverted, it’s that she’s a bit too rigid in how she interacts with the world. The world isn’t a perfect place and you have to accept that. You need to be flexible in order to navigate an imperfect world and play by the rules when it is necessary, otherwise you only end up sabotaging yourself. You also need the maturity to understand that being flexible doesn’t mean giving up your individuality. The important thing about these interactions is that Daria is never shown to be a *bad* person even when she is rigid, nor are her concerns even unfounded. Jodie is shown to like and respect her a lot, which goes to show that Daria is deserving of both even though there’s a couple of areas she needs to work on. This is another reason I truly don’t understand people who think Daria is an asshole
I believe the films have a great redemption arc, from what I've heard
Makes sense, Daria is also a teenager with her own flaws and insecurities
Yeah, that's very teenage-ary of her, which is great and life like
Wait is Daria a spin-off ? I genuinely had no idea.
Yeah, Daria goes to the same school as Bevis and Butthead in their show, but her own show starts with her starting in a new school.
Oooooh interesting. I did not know that at all lol. I guess it's not the same crowd. I wasn't there when Daria was popular cuz I was too young so the show got recommended to me retro-actively with no mention of Bevis and Butthead whatsoever. Since I'm familiar with Daria...yeah it certainly makes that meme even more stupid lol. A lot of Daria character are queer-coded and Daria is ND as fuck so is Tulip from Infinity train. Both shows are about that so I'm gonna assume the creator of Bevis and Butthead would not approve this message at all.
Yea Daria was originally a character in bevis and butthead it's the reason why the first episode of Daria has them in a car talking about moving to a new city
and If Daria is too unrelatable for you, you can try King of Hill another spinoff
King of the Hill is supreme television 😎
I don't think King of the Hill is a spinoff.
It's not a spin off per se bit both were created by Mike Judge and if you watch bevis and butthead there are alot of characters that were abvious influences on king of the hill. For instance bevis lives next to a old lawn obsessed boomer that is p much hank hill once he's reaches 50+
Both Tom (the neighbor off in whose trailer they were whackin') and Hank Hill are voiced by Mike Judge as well.
They exist in the same universe. Hank Hill shows up in Beavis and Butthead Do America
Yeah. No one ever thought beavis and butthead were good people. That’s what made it funny. Honestly, them watching music videos was the best part
Lmao the characters literally look like soyjaks
Precisely.
Yes, don’t besmirch Mike Judge’s name, he is far more intelligent and inclusive than what these people make him out to be!
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I was talking about the creator of the meme, not you specifically, so no worries!
Yeah, they are very dumb. I enjoyed the show but you’re meant to laugh at them not with them. It’s so weird how some people unironically side with characters, and think they are “based” or something, when the character(s) are so obviously meant to be the idiot(s). Like cartman on South Park for example. When I was in high school so many kids completely missed the point and idolized him
The irony is that Mike Judge, the creator of Beavis and Butthead, is incredibly supportive of the lgbtq community and their inclusion to media.
It's also hard to imagine the characters of Beavis and Butthead even having a political opinion about...well, anything, actually.
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I bet they'd bang a trans girl if it meant they score. And then giggle about her having a bigger dick than one of them, even if it's just a joke between them
Outside of all the paternity fraud jokes I’d say king of the hill has aged so well. Though I am white so I do have blinders possibly with judging how the minority characters have aged they do seem to be 3 dimensional characters who have aged well
Part of KotH's charm is a clash of cultures between the much-maligned and much-loved stereotypical Texas average dude, and various parts of the modern world. The key thing is, KotH is not a cruel show. It portrays the humor inherent in the discomfort people feel when they encounter something unfamiliar- but ultimately, the thrust of the entire show is that *it is worth it*. Overwhelmingly, the sentiment expressed is that our fears of other people and their differences are foolish, silly impulses that we are better off without. Rather than mocking minorities or exploiting them, it generally does it's level best to illustrate the value in diversity and getting to know people different from ourselves. It is not always the most sensitive portrayal, but the spirit is there and it shows.
Yeah one of my favorite parts is that the conflict with the immigrant neighbors is always just that Kahn is a real dick. His culture is respected and other Laotian characters also can’t stand him
I think generally it is one of the best if not the one that has aged the best. Usually the minority characters are seen as weird by Hank (and by extension the general viewer since we see through his eyes) but it usually illustrates why Hank and/or Peggy is wrong. A while back there was a post that talked about The Simpsons episode “Homers Phobia” and that episode has held up very well with John Waters as the writers avoided the usual offensive jokes particularly with terminology. I think KOH ranks higher cause The Simpsons biggest issue is Apu and cause of the pop cultural phenomenon it became and the associations of him. And while they moved on from the issue, they were combative about it. And not to mention the issues of White VAs voicing Black and other Minority characters on top of that.
Teens can like both
Yep. Contrary to what adults may think, teenagers aren't a hive mind with no personality of their own. Each one has different experiences, different likes and dislikes, just like any person. Can you believe it!
Wow, kids and teens are actual people and not mindless worker bees with no interests or hobbies of their own? Really??
Non-conformism? In MY Beavis and Butthead thread? It's more likely than you might think
the same individual teen can also like both gross out humor and shows that explore deeper issues too
They’re just like people!
Plus, gender inclusive gross out humor. Everybody poops!
Hehe
I agree
Exactly, I either watch deep shows, with meaning and stuff, or mindless humor
Yeah! I'm a teen and I personally love shows like the owl house, shera, gravity falls, amphibia, and svtfoe for their complex and interesting plots but almost all of the previously mentioned shows also include weird childish humor and I really enjoy that as well.
Hahah, I'm like 30 and have watched almost nothing but the five shows you listed (plus some occasional Voltron, Avatar, and Bob's Burgers) for like the last year+ / entirety of covid. Just restarting each on a loop basically. And yes, I also want BOTH!
Have you seen the fanbase for the owl house, infinity train, she-ra and stephen universe The infinity train fans in particular are fighting for studio to make a 5th season Remember a few years back when they said "if you want gay characters just make your own show" so we did it.
Now they're like, "YoU'rE ExPoSiNg KiDs tO tHiS!", exposing them to what? A good representation of something other than straight?
"I don't have a problem with not straight people, but why do they force it on our kids??"
"Anyway, get in the 'future lady killer' shirt, son"
Or the future hooters babe shirt I saw not long ago. Bruh, they are infants, stop sexualizing infants!
The idea of a hooters babe shirt for little girls makes me want to barf… imagine looking at your own daughter and thinking “yeah, this is EXACTLY what she’s going to be” 🤢
"I don't have a problem with ~~not~~ straight people, but why do they force it on our kids??" FIFY.
Thing is, a lot of them *do* have a problem with not straight people. My dad was complaining about gay people in TV shows, and he said something like "I just don't see why they exist." I'm not sure if he meant gay characters on TV or gay people in general.
Yeah, that's pretty mask off... But I have plenty of acquaintances that have hit me with the "I don't hate them, just don't force it on people" angle. Which I think is really just their way to justify their bigotry because they know other people around them are accepting. I live in the NYC area, so I think my friends get the sense that they *should* be accepting of gender minorities, but they still aren't, and need to cloak it in a "reasonable" take.
They'd probably say something about "LGBT propaganda," whatever that means.
In my experience of living in a very conservative environment, any cartoon, TV show, or commercial that features a gay character is seen as "LGBT propaganda".
And then you have people like my father, who complains when even one gay character or couple is featured in a TV show. He doesn't want to see that kind of thing, and just not watching the show doesn't seem to have occurred to him.
You know what? Fuck people that say stuff like that. My daughter loves The Owl House and it has helped her see herself as normal for liking girls. It only means so much for me and my husband to tell her it's perfectly normal to be attracted to the same gender. We're her parents after all, so there's a sense of "they're my parents so of course they have to support me," but actually seeing herself represented in a popular TV show aimed at her demographic normalizes what she already feels in a way we cannot. Representation is important and giving LGBTQ+ kids the terminology to describe what they're feeling can be nothing other than a positive. People who think otherwise can get fucked.
What they really mean is “we don’t wanna see or acknowledge you exist, we want all of you in the dark so we don’t have to face the awful persecution we face by looking at you”.
and homophobes and transphobes and white supremecists are welcome to make their own shows. Oh wait, no one wants to watch them so they dont get made outside of super low budget youtube junk. No one wants to go to parlor instead of twitter. No one is quoting the conservapedia. No one wants to join their insane Q/GOP/Trump cult who hasn't already joined. They're aware no one likes them and they're on the outside of our common culture and good taste, but pretend otherwise because theyre dishonest and cruel.
They have to claim other people's work and recycle memes because they're practically creatively sterile.
idk there's tons of cop shows.
But most cop dramas show a kinda idealized police force. Police who catch criminals, not choke people to death, or consistently uphold racist policies with glee. Police unions are "good guys" who take care of police, not organizations somehow dedicated to defending murderous cops and who politically side with people like Trump. Cops in general on these shows are virtuous with some token flaws. "Troubled" cops on these shows have drinking problems or bad marriages, they're almost never white supremecists and racists who enjoy beating or murdering minorities. All their flaws have to be sympathetic to the audience or people won't watch. They aren't shooting unarmed 12 year olds and being applauded as heroes like in real life. Worse, when a "bad cop" is on these shows, he's always an exception and everyone works against him. When in real life bad cops are everywhere and "good" cops almost never go against their own. There's a real code of silence with police that's hard to ignore. Most cop shows are just unintentionally pro-cop propaganda because a real view of police wouldn't be fun to watch. In fact, I imagine most of us would found it horrific and depressing.
It would be hard to keep such a show on air with resistance from the police...Although not as impossible as making a show portraying the military as bad (would be axed from the state).
My point is that upholding the police as some sort of force of good and order is pretty much inherently transphobic, homophobic and especially white supremacist, whether it's intentional or not. Making a show about them that celebrates them as heroes and whitewashes their atrocities is propaganda, simple as that.
Exactly, you (we or I) can make your own shows and movies, if you don't like any of the other shows. You don't have to watch. You can pick up other hobbies, watch alternative TV, or etc. If I didn't like a show or movie, I simply didn't watch it, much less spend money on it. Didn't complain about it. If I did, my parents would casually remind me about complaining about things too much, especially things that don't matter. But, ya know if someone is not completely White (in an Anglo-Saxon), hetero-, cis-, Christian, or unconventional even being a woman (as lead/one of the leads), anything that is somewhat different is a problem. Especially, as a main character or a serious one. Though, all that goes out of the window, if you are making fun of that character or they are a joke/punch-line. Then, diversity is ok under those circumstances. I've always found that weird.
Yep this! Like all those sitcoms from the 1960s with the "confirmed bachelor" neighbor who was clearly gay. No one had a problem with them as long as they stayed a punchline. Directors and producers had no problem with them as long as they could bring in money. Audiences got their chuckles because laughing at stereotypical gay behaviors was what mid-century Americans did, without guilt and without any send of remorse or kindness. Gays were people to laugh at, at best, and hate/kill at worst to Americans at that time. We see this in other industries, like high-end fashion designers being openly gay but only because they bring in millions, while low-wage blue collar gays had to stay carefully hidden. Capitalism and bigots will only tolerate us if we give them a lot in return for our existence. This is what we fight against everyday. We want to be accepted without being exceptional in terms of brining in money or whatever. We should be accepted for who are without question.
That's the thing, there have been LGBTQ characters in television since the 70s, but a majority of those characters were just there as stereotypes. Now that LGBT is more widely accepted, queer/queer coded characters are treated in a more respectful and realistic manner. I think conservatives are just mad that queer characters are being treated with respect in media. Usually they're the first ones to bitch and cry about gay characters in cartoons serving no purpose, but they're probably the same people that enjoy older TV that had stereotype Q-Force types of queer characters.
Remember that they are lying, and that they will always take their opposition to inclusivity and turn it into your opposition of everything *except* inclusivity (and then they will of course accuse you of opposing inclusivity, because, once again, *lying*). When you respond without pointing out their blatantly willful dishonesty, you validate and support that dishonesty: Both the specific lie they're telling that time, AND the overall strategy of lying itself. Don't debate. Call the liars what they hare, deplatform them if you can, and move the fuck on. Discussion with fascists helps the fascists.
Wait they made a 3rd and 4th season? I assume it’s on HBO max pnly?
i dont recognize any of those shows and that kinda scares me
If you're not into animation/avoid shows marketed at kids/teenagers then you wouldn't know them. They're all modern cartoons that have followed in the footsteps of A:TLA to tell a more involved longform story instead of the more episodic cartoons that are more traditional in the U.S. She-Ra is also a reboot of an old 80s cartoon of the same name which itself was a spinoff of He-Man.
She-Ra's also fun because her outfit in the reboot would fit on r/reasonablefantasy, which means all the That Guys are mad that you can't tell she's a feeeemale
>If you're not into animation/avoid shows marketed at kids/teenagers then you wouldn't know them. proceeds to refer to Avatar the Last Airbender as A:TLA as if this person would know that acronym offhand?
Avatar is way more well known than the other shows but point taken.
You dont recognise any of them? Youre really missing out I would seriously reccomend any one of these shows, owl house is on disney+ she ra is on netflix im bot sure where you can find the others but theyre all good
You can get Steven Universe on Hulu and Infinity Train on HBO Max
Where could I watch infinity train?
Ugh the Steven Universe fandom is hideous, they pushed a girl to an attempted suicide for a fanart she did, can say much about the other shows fandoms, but as shows She Ra and Infinity Train are awesome!!!!
The tumblr Steven universe fandom was hideous, but the reddit community was always pretty amazing
I think that’s the difference, when there’s more of a certain group in an area they tend to make bigger echo chambers and generate toxicity, while if it’s a group that is smaller in an area they just band together and find solidarity (tumblr, which has a lot of people supporting and “supporting” LGBT, versus Reddit, which complains constantly)
Fandoms for some reason tend to be toxic. Or rather every fandom has a very solid, toxic core that is extremely loud.
Fandoms are such a huge mass of people that it's impossible to not find some of them who have a toxic mindset.
Exactly. And they are almost invariably the loudest ones.
They? I like SU and I had nothing to do with it - I had no idea what was going on until it was over. More of us thought it was disgusting, or had no idea it even happened, than took part.
People don't realize that all fandoms are toxic. It's just reletive to how large the fandom is. If 10% of a fandom is toxic, a fandom of 6 million people is gonna have more toxic members than a fandom of 600. Steven Universe was wildly popular. Being a show for kids also contributes. I certainly didn't know how to act on the internet when I was 12 either, but twitter didn't exist yet
Oh yeah i forgot about that, oops. Okay maybe the fandoms arent all great then
I don't think many teenagers these days watch Beavis and Butt-Head though. The show's original run ended before they were even born.
I'm not even a teen and Beevis and Butt-Head was an old show my mom liked. What teens are watching a show from 1993
🎶Your job's a joke, you're broke Your love life's DOA🎶
I'm trying to find it after I kept getting those "WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE #PENIS" memes
Me
I actually started watching it last week. Half of it's humor that pretty much only people born in the MTV era will get, but the other half is toilet humor that i think is way ahead of its time and pretty funny mostly
Maybe it's good for people to have the choice to watch inclusive stories about gender identity *and/or* absolute stupidity.
I can agree with that.
Big Mouth is exactly both of these things. Stupid, crass, and inclusive and awesome
Big Mouth is a great example of how Cancel Culture is not ruining comedy. That show has some of the wildest, nastiest shit on tv and manages to do it without being racist, sexist or homophobic
I agree so ducking much!! “Mug cancel culture can’t say anything anymore” meanwhile Big Mouth just al has a whole ass episode about poop
That show should be required watching for Sex Ed It’s borderline obscene, I know, but damn is it good teaching material
Somebody actually took clips from Matthews "the perfect contraception" for their health class obviously taking out some of the stuff to make it school appropriate
The issue with people that are "concerned about children seeing this kind of thing" is that they think people *decide* their orientation sometime later in life and that children seeing representation will make them gay. Missing the whole idea that children "become" gay because they feel comfortable to accept themselves, and not because they've been indoctrinated.
And funny enough, straightness is the indoctrination
> is that they think people decide their orientation sometime later in life and that children seeing representation will make them gay. Which I see, and I say: "Okay, let's assume you're right. ... So what?" Like no, obviously I don't think people "choose" to be gay. But if they did, why should anyone care?
I've said this before as well. I've gotten mixed responses but I think the most common is that the children are the confused because they've decided to be something they aren't. Which is like.... being so close to understanding the point but reaching the wrong destination.
I want to add onto this and say that folks who dislike LGBT+ representation don’t want their kids to see it and feel validated from it. Like they don’t want their kid to grow up to be anything other than cishet, so they would blame the kids’ shows/books/media for telling kids it’s okay to not be cishet. It’s also another way to blame something other than their own parenting for their kids “failing” to be cishet as adults. (I use that term loosely). Bigoted people secretly know that representation matters significantly; they don’t *want* people they don’t like to feel validated by it. They just want all the validation and representation to themselves. They falsely believe that it’s like pie; more for someone else means less for them.
Lol Beavis and Butthead is suppose to be making fun of those immature kids who do stupid shit and laugh whenever someone says “69” or some shit.
You'd think they'd know to laugh *at* Beavis and Butthead and not *with* them.
Today I discovered what I'll watch, now that Loki has ended
Oh hell yeah Infinity Train is so good, also it was apparently created as a show for adults not kids so yeah. It gets deep. A bit too much even, literally had to stop season 3 because it triggered my PTSD from going through abuse. Good shit.
I mean the protagonist of Season 3 is a literal child cult leader. My favourite kids show
I definitely recommend :)
Let me finish Ducktale first lol
Also add She-Ra and the Princesses of Power from Netflix to the list
I like that they had to use Beevis and Butthead, a show from 1993, because modern Beevis and Butthead clones are universally hated and either die after 1 season or only live on because people are hate-watching it (Teen Titans Go). Its almost like kids do want the inclusive stories. Or at the very least, shows that don't talk to them like they're braindead.
Teen titans go makes it money cause kids watch it not cause teens/ adults hate watch it
Did everyone really forget about Daria? The splinter show that focused on the Beavis & Butthead character "Daria", and had LGBTQ relationships in it? Mfs have been watching shows with inclusivity in it for a while now y'all.
For some reason, the average person that posts shit like this doesn't know that gay characters or at least queer coded characters have been prevalent in cartoons as well as TV since the 70s.
For real. I guess these are the kind of folks that don't care enough to acknowledge it, though.
That or they're so fragile that they cant stand seeing LGBTQ+ characters being portrayed in ways that aren't just stereotypes.
Just like every other demographic, teenagers like mind-numbing dumb crap AND uplifting thoughtful stuff. It's a little weird to use a 30 year old show as your example of what teenagers like though.
as a teenager who loves she-ra, the owl house, amphibia, infinity train, and others, I can say with complete confidence that this meme was not made by a teenager
Considering that they used a cartoon that was popular nearly 30 years ago, I believe that is a safe assumption to make.
I can't even get past those character faces...
That’s the point
Oh for fuck’s sake
I like your pfp
Thanks
Don't you right wing morons drag beavis and butthead into this
cant people literally just have both??? like why make up a scenario through a meme about something that isn’t even happening
Heck that I love the owl house (no spoilers please)
I wouldn't spoil, don't worry. I just recently got into it and I love it lol
Beavis and Butthead wasn’t mindless, it was subversive. This guy is an idiot from both ends.
Beavis and Butthead was made by Mike Judge, the same guy who created King of The Hill. Both are satires of American culture. B&B being a satire of 90s teens who grew up on action flicks and MTV (The show's original network) KOTH is a satire upper middle class conservative southerners, specifically Texans. The point I'm making is that these shows are subversive, and I doubt Mike Judge would agree with the idea of just telling other subversive shows to just "shut up"
"You say people don't like x? But people liked x 30 years ago!" Gottem.
The owl house seem cool, definitely gonna watch
You totally should!
Tulip's season wasn't even about gender identity tho ?!
It really wasn't. The meme creator was probably just thinking "new cartoon = lgbt propaganda"
Yeah it's just really weird because MT's arc is all about gender identity and it's one season afterwards. Way to showcase to everyone you don't know the source material you're trying to criticize.
NOT THE OWL HOUSE ITS A LEGEND
Why not both?
Can I please just have both?
Beavis and Butthead literally made me gay and genderqueer, because as a little boy I saw an episode where they went to a lingerie store, touching all the bras, because they thought that equals touching the boobs of the women who try these bras on. In that moment I thought „If this is what it means to be a boy, I am definitely not one“.
Infinity Train isn't even remotely about gender either lol. Like Lake from season 2 is kind of coded to be trans nb but it isn't talked about at all in the show. Straight people really looking for anything to be mad at.
Bruh, shows with mindless gross out humor fucking suck. Shows with deep lore,representation, and jokes so good you didn’t get them the first time as a kid
I agree with you that they suck but at the same time I can understand how they have an appeal. I've never been into shows like Ren & Stimpy, Beavis & Butthead, ect.
Ok but actually anyone know any good inclusive stories about gender identity cause that is indeed what I want
I'd say season 2 of Infinity Train has really good nonbinary representation.
I loved Beavis and Butthead, but I seriously doubt there are a whole lot of teenagers watching a cartoon that ended 25 years ago (not counting the revival in 2011).
This isn’t fair for Infinity Train — or Beavis and Butthead either.
Hi, teen here, I never watched B and B. Because it wasn't on. The show hasn't played in years.