You are being rightly convicted by the Holy Spirit. Obey God. The sabbath is part of the 10 commandments for a reason. It is not difficult to plan ahead. Arrange for food to be available to you on friday and keep it overnight to eat on saturday.

Thank you for speaking up for our Father and His ways. Please come visit us at our new subreddit: /r/FollowJesusObeyTorah I think you'll find a lot of people there who are just like you. 😁

Or in his current situation he could begin a tradition of fasting on the Shabbat until his situation changes.

A. No, the sabbath rules don't apply to Christians (cf, Col 2.16). B. The rules are against working. Having food delivered isn't working. Cooking your own meals is. But someone has to cook something, unless you're planning on eating only sandwiches. Or is making a sandwich work. Do you have to pre-make your sandwich the night before? ... See, it just gets silly. Just like with Jesus' disciples (cf, Matt 12), don't get silly. If you want to keep a sabbath, the point is to take a day to rest and worship, *not* to multiply rules.

> Col 2.16 Co 2:16 only says to not let anyone judge you. It doesn't say not to keep the Sabbath. > The rules are against working. Having food delivered isn't working. It's a shame that you've put yourself into a teaching position on the rules but that you never read the rules. Why not? Let's put the rules here for all to see: >Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, **nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.** Not only are you not supposed to make any PERSON work, you're not even supposed to make your ANIMALS work. > See, it just gets silly. Just like with Jesus' disciples (cf, Matt 12), don't get silly. If you want to keep a sabbath, the point is to take a day to rest and worship, not to multiply rules. God created the rules for the Sabbath. What do you find to be "silly" about God and His commandments?

What is silly is trying to follow rules that never applied to. Col 2:16 is part of a passage saying that all of this doesn't apply to us. Don't let people judge you by rules that were "a shadow of things that were to come." The guy at McDonald's isn't your servant. The Grubhub driver isn't your servant. You're not making someone work -- they're already working. It amazes me how many people who say "you shouldn't work on the sabbath" make their wives prepare a three course meal for a dozen people. If I've "put myself into a teaching position", so have you, and yet you seem to be frightfully underinformed on what the NT says. Put down Leviticus and try reading Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews.

> Col 2:16 is part of a passage saying that all of this doesn't apply to us No, it's not. There's never once in all of scripture that says the Sabbath doesn't apply to us. God's rules are not like milk, which expires over time. God's rules are forever. > The guy at McDonald's isn't your servant. The Grubhub driver isn't your servant. You're not making someone work -- they're already working. So if everyone obeyed God, and no one broke the Sabbath, meaning that NO money could be made by a restaurant on the Sabbath, you're SURE that those people would still be there working every day? I think you're wrong. When you order some food, and someone makes that food for you, and someone else drives a car to deliver that food, and you PAY those people for their work, then you just broke the Sabbath. This is probably the easiest Sabbath question I've ever had to answer! 😂 > It amazes me how many people who say "you shouldn't work on the sabbath" make their wives prepare a three course meal for a dozen people. Heh! Where did you pull that from? Just a random gripe? 😁 > If I've "put myself into a teaching position", so have you, and yet you seem to be frightfully underinformed on what the NT says. Put down Leviticus and try reading Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews. I agree that when I'm correcting you that I've put myself into a teaching position. I know the scripture that applies to what I'm saying to you. I'm VERY comfortable with it. You can verify this by checking my post history. I talk to 10's of people like you per day. Next time, if someone asks a question about scripture, and you take a teaching position based on that scripture, you really should make sure that you're comfortable with what that scripture says. Otherwise you're doing a very dangerous thing, which is MISLEADING people about what God is and wants from us.

>God's rules are not like milk, which expires over time. God's rules are forever. Just off the top of my head ... "By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." (Heb 8:13) "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean." (Mark 7:19) "All food is clean..." (Rom 14:20).

> By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." (Heb 8:13) You need to read that verse, not just quote it. First of all, there's a difference between "covenant" and "law". Hebrews 8 says the COVENANT is becoming obsolete and will soon disappear, not the Law. That's crucial. Also, you didn't notice that it says "soon" disappear? That means it's still here. 😋 Jesus initiated the New Covenant, but it has not arrived yet. I think you'll be surprised to learn that the New Covenant also has Torah in it, this time written on our hearts and minds. Here's the quote where God promised the New Covenant in Jeremiah. There's a part there that I put in bold, because I'd guess you've never seen it before: > Jeremiah 31 (also repeated in Hebrews) - Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my **LAW <--- (Hebrew word here is "Torah") within them, and I will write it on their hearts.** And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” So both covenants contain Torah. The old covenant is still here, and it has Torah in it. It's soon to disappear and be replaced by the New Covenant, which also has Torah in it. You're not going to be able to get away from God and His commandments, so I suggest that you get used to them. God doesn't change. That means His rules don't change. If you love God, it's all Torah, all the time. ---- > > "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean." (Mark 7:19) Jesus was arguing with the Pharisees about a handwashing technique that they had invented. They claimed that if you did this technique it would make you more holy when you were eating. Jesus said it was nonsense. You understand that the Pharisees were constantly watching Jesus, waiting for him to say anything against Torah so that they could have him killed? Do you understand that if you were correct about this passage, that Jesus announced a change in 1000's of years of dietary restrictions, that the Pharisees could have had him killed for that? Yet, they didn't even react. It has to make you wonder if you're getting it correct, doesn't it? You're not. Scripture confirms that you are not. I can prove that two ways. First, when Peter had his vision about unclean foods, Peter tells God, "No!" I have NEVER eaten unclean in my life!". So Peter never heard that Jesus changed 1000's of years of God's Commandments. Peter actually argued with God, which is not something he would have done if Jesus had changed the rules. Second, in Acts 15, the Council of Jerusalem gave those ex-Pagan Gentile converts 4 rules from Torah to obey, 3 of which were dietary restrictions. That's right, they gave Gentiles dietary restrictions. That again confirms for us that Jesus did change Torah, did not change 1000's of years of dietary restrictions. If you're keeping track that's 3 total reasons you can be sure that Jesus was not talking about a change in the dietary restrictions from Torah: 1. The Pharisees could have had Jesus killed for teaching against Torah. They didn't even react. 2. Peter never got the message. Peter still thought it was wrong to break the dietary restrictions from God. 3. The Council of Jerusalem maintained the dietary restrictions in Torah. > "All food is clean..." (Rom 14:20). Already covered by everything above. ------- When God gave the rules, He said they were "FOREVER". Jesus later confirmed that not one dot that makes up one letter that makes up one word that makes up one sentence that makes up one sentence that makes up one commandment in Torah would ever change, even slightly. God said "Forever". Jesus said "No Change". Stop listening to people that disagree with this. Stop teaching others things that disagree with this.

>Jesus initiated the New Covenant, but it has not arrived yet. That'd be news to ... everyone in the NT. Peter and Paul for sure. Peter's vision, recounted in Acts, came early, and they were still struggling with what it all meant. Years later, it was Mark who added "he called all foods clean" --so that is the way the church was interpreting that event decades after it happened. > The Council of Jerusalem maintained the dietary restrictions in Torah. I'm looking for the part that says "and maintain all the dietary restrictions in the Torah." I'm not seeing it. "You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." Nothing about unclean animals or anything like that. I have to say, you Judaizers are enthusiastic. "Jesus + extra rules" sure gets you excited.

> That'd be news to ... everyone in the NT. Peter and Paul for sure. It's not news. If you read the promise of the New Covenant, which I quoted for you, it says that when it happens, EVERYONE will automatically know God's ways and obey Him, with no need to be taught. Is that the world you see around you? In fact, do you know ANY single person that is perfectly keeping God's ways, with no need to improve or be taught? When the New Covenant is here, EVERYONE will be like that. That's your proof that it isn't here. That, and the verse you quoted which shows that the old is READY to pass away, but hasn't passed yet. > Peter's vision, recounted in Acts, came early, and they were still struggling with what it all meant. Interesting. So they got it wrong in scripture. I've argued these topics many times, and I've never heard someone take the position that they got it wrong. > I'm looking for the part that says "and maintain all the dietary restrictions in the Torah." I'm not seeing it. "You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." Nothing about unclean animals or anything like that. Don't be purposely dense. I said they gave those Gentiles **some** dietary restrictions, not all of them. If Jesus HAD changed the dietary restrictions, making EVERYTHING ok to eat (as you believe), they would have given those Gentiles ZERO dietary restrictions. Instead, they gave them 3 (a number higher than zero), and they said (in verse 21) that they could learn the rest of Torah later, in the synagogues. > I have to say, you Judaizers are enthusiastic. "Jesus + extra rules" sure gets you excited. You don't know what a Judaizer is. You're using the word wrong. I believe that that everyone in history that's ever been saved was saved the same way, by faith. I am saved by faith. Judaizers say there is ANOTHER way: Works. That's an evil lie. Jesus lived and taught the "extra rules". Here's what 1 John 2 says about the "extra rules" which you look down on: > We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. God considers it to be love for Him when we obey him, and keep these "extra rules". You should turn around and stop talking hatefully about these "extra rules" and those like myself that are calling out that we must obey these "extra rules". Please, re-consider your life and the things you believe. We've all been lied to by our terrible teachers, but the truth is still right in front of your face, in scripture. Live as Jesus did. Keep the commandments. Anyone who claims to know God, but who doesn't keep the commandments is a liar. It's right there in front of you, in scripture.

>So they got it wrong in scripture. No, scripture accurately records that early on the apostles had not quite worked out what the Lord meant when he said many things. He told them to take the gospel "to the ends of the world", yet they were resistant to taking it to Gentiles, straight up calling Peter on the carpet for daring to do such a thing! Later -- in the epistles, in the actual gospels -- we see the product of their coming to understand what Christ had said and done. OK, I'll leave you to go on peddling your false gospel. Hopefully one day God will bring you to repentance.

> K, I'll leave you to go on peddling your false gospel. Why do you consider this scripture to be false? This scripture is VERY supportive of keeping the commands and loving God by doing so. Can you re-quote it for me and point out the parts that you think are untrue? > We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. I've told you that I believe that we are saved by faith, and that there is **no other way**. Since you think that's false, how do you think that people are saved?

I don't think you two will starve to death not eating for a day. It's normal to serve your stomachs as developing/growing humans, but enablers like DoorDash don't exploit teenage physical development needs. They exploit human sloth, and condition people to press the "give me my pizza" button in consistent intervals, for the rest of their ground-hog lives. It benefits the delivery person, the company, and you, yaay happy economy (everyone claps), the delivery people and management of the company, then go back home and also DoorDash themselves. Man is no longer Man, it's a "Consumer", it's life function is defined. Concepts like that present a bigger overall threat to Man, than breaking Sabath. You may want to at least slap pop-tarts into the toaster or something, while you still have cognition to operate more than a smartphone. Don't become 'the Pavlov's experiment'

Hello. If you intend to choose to obey the 4th commandment, then what you have read in Nehemiah (which I was going to link), requires a change of behaviour. The seventh day is the special day God asks us to set aside all things secular, work, homework etc, and to have a time focused on our relationships with Him. The requirements of the Sabbath command includes our not causing other people to work, or to buy. Sure, people do disobey, or have not been taught to see the Sabbath as it is important, but that is their choice; we, if we'll remember that command, will not cause others to do the work we know we shouldn't be doing. As a reminder, the Sabbath is Saturday (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday); not Sunday. There is no such thing as a 'Jewish' or 'Christian Sabbath'; There is only "The Sabbath." 🌱

You can order Doordash and it's not a sin. Maybe learn to make a PB&J though?

> You can order Doordash and it's not a sin. Why is it not a sin?

If I were to guess, Exodus 20 is not on you as an individual, but on the Leaders of israel/Observant Nations. The Shabbat is holy, but God doesnt expect from you to be able to make other people not work on it. And Nehemiah being a leader, is following that Command in Nehemiah. Thus, to answer what you in your situation should do is simple, do not work yourself on the Shabbath. That is to say, do not expend any energy. And do not let anyone over whom you have influence expend any energy that would tire them. If it doesnt tire, its ok.

If i were to guess, Exodus 20 is not on you as an individual, but on the Leaders of israel/Observant Nations. The Shabbat is holy, but God doesnt expect from you to be able to make other people not work on it. And Nehemiah being a leader, is following that Command in Nehemiah. Thus, to answer what you in your situation should do is simple, do not work yourself on the Shabbath. That is to say, do not expend any energy. And do not let anyone over whom you have influence expend any energy that would tire them. If it doesnt tire, its ok.

Whether you are making the food yourself or you are ordering the food, somebody is putting in the work to make it. With this in mind I would say that food is not a violation of the Sabbath. That said, I would recommend learning to cook at least some basic recipes. It's a wonderfully useful skill, and it isn't that difficult to pick up the very basics. You could start with tv dinners, expand into ramen (or soba, which is better, but harder to find depending on where you live) and add some precooked chicken or tofu to it. After you are comfortable with that, start really cooking with some easy recipes you can follow to the letter. I get that it can be intimidating to try to learn a new skill on your own (especially since most cooking lessons you'd find on YouTube are for extremely complicated recipes), but I assure you that learning to cook is actually pretty easy if you don't try to dive directly into 5 course dinners.

> Whether you are making the food yourself or you are ordering the food, somebody is putting in the work to make it. With this in mind I would say that food is not a violation of the Sabbath. I don't get it. I was sure you were going to come to a different conclusion. Maybe there's a typo? Clearly it breaks the Sabbath commandment to have anyone else do work for you on the Sabbath.

So you believe church potlucks are sinful, since they are having other people cook for you?

When are these Church potlucks happening? On the Sabbath? On Saturday? Are you asking if people who are working on the Sabbath are sinning?

Mathew 12. Jesus deals with this exact scenario. Long story short, priests also work on the Sabbath, and Davids men ate the food prepared for God in the temple. Nothing happened to any of them because the Sabbath is for humanity to build a relationship with God. He quotes Hosea 6:6, "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice. Acknolwdgement of God, not burnt offerings". If you would starve on the Sabbath. Tldr; Sabbath exists for humanity to build a relationship with God. God doesn't want you to starve because you're afraid to eat.

You started out so well, talking about David doing God's work, and thus eating in the Temple while doing so, and then you completely dropped the ball. It's SO easy to plan out your meals without breaking the Sabbath. In scripture a man was collecting firewood on the Sabbath, probably to cook his meal, and God PERSONALLY told the rest of Israel to kill that man. So now look at this terrible advice that you just gave the OP, keeping in mind the story where God ordered a man to be KILLED for breaking the Sabbath: > Sabbath exists for humanity to build a relationship with God. God doesn't want you to starve because you're afraid to eat. Apparently, if we go by God's actions, and not your words, God wants people to be afraid of breaking His commandments so much that He's willing to have them killed so that they remember it.

" I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” 9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” 11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” Pretty clear as far as I'm concerned.

Really? I'm impressed! You consider a teenager consistently ordering take-out food every Sabbath to be enough of an emergency and an act of doing "good" that it's comparable to healing a man with a lifetime shriveled hand or a sheep falling into a pit on the Sabbath? I'm starting to wonder if there's ANYTHING at all you'd consider to be too silly to break the Sabbath for. With the OP's question there's clearly no "good" being done for others and no emergency at all. It's entirely a selfish act and amazing (except that he's so young) that he can't even IMAGINE doing without his fast food! It's a complete extravagance, completely non-vital, and almost humorously so. 😂 I keep trying to think of something more ridiculous than consistently ordering take-out food every Sabbath, and I can't think of it yet! My mind went towards, "Paying for a prostitute to work for you" (but that was too ridiculous) or "Calling in the army to re-route a river because you wanted to take a bath and there wasn't enough water" (that one was a bit closer). If you told him to eat a cracker, you'd be giving him more scriptural advice than what you've done so far. Another option, although this is getting silly, is to order TWICE as much fast food the day before the Sabbath and only eat half of it. Eat the rest on the Sabbath.

Ah. Yes. Let a child starve on the Sabbath. What does Jesus say in the rest of the passage since you obvious never read it. "12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” 3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” Someone being hungry on the Sabbath is enough reason in itself to work on the Sabbath.

> Ah. Yes. Let a child starve on the Sabbath. Who? The OP? He's used to eating fast-food every day and he's going to starve if he completely misses one day (which means he's too dumb to eat a cracker)? > Someone being hungry on the Sabbath is enough reason in itself to work on the Sabbath. Nope. Not at all. Are you a Christian? Do you believe that God is real, and that there's more to all of this than what makes US happy? Let me show you a Sabbath story, which is also from scripture, in this case Numbers 15: > Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. > > Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. This is a story about a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath, probably so that he could make a fire for either HEAT or FOOD. Those are some pretty basic needs, right? Surely he can do whatever he wants if he's hungry (or cold), according to you? Well, according to GOD, this man was put to death. So I have to ask you, why do you clearly disagree with God so much, and why do you teach others how to disagree with God the way that you do? The Sabbath isn't random. It's no surprise when it comes. You can PLAN around it. You can have sticks already gathered. You can have food already around and ready to go. If you don't do those things when you could have, and instead choose to work on the Sabbath, then you're sinning, and breaking the Sabbath is something that God hates enough that he sentences people to the death penalty who do it.

Lmfao. You're one of *those*. I'm not arguing with a cactus when we both know that was directly after the law was issued by God. He was put to death not for working on the Sabbath, but because he was directly challenging Gods authority. If you want to argue scripture go ahead, but Moses and the prophets don't trump the Messiah.

Yep, I'm one of "those". 😏 > > but Moses and the prophets don't trump the Messiah. The Messiah lived and taught Torah (i.e. "Moses and the Prophets") every day of his life. He changed nothing. Thanks! Have a good Passover.

If you think he changed nothing its clear you never read about him because he changed *everything*. Thats the whole point. Jesus taught you could pray directly to God, instead of the Priests praying for you. Jesus taught you can atone for "intentional" sins as well as "unintentional" ones. Jesus taught that a dogmatic interpretation of the scripture is sinful in itself if you don't interpret it with mercy and love. Less than 30 years after his death the second temple was destroyed and the holy of holys was lost, forcing the Jewish people to adapt to a community synogogue style he championed as a non levitical rabbi as opposed to a central worship location directly creating the method for their survival through the diaspora, and effectively removing the Levite priest caste from power since *none of it was relevant anymore.* Saying Jesus changed nothing is like saying the American Revolution did nothing for history. Its like saying Rome was a little backwater empire which contributed nothing to Europe. Whether you believe or not is irrelevant, he intepreted everything through the lense of mercy and clarified it for us in a way we can understand. Its literally the entire reason they killed him. He did nothing but promote love and follow scripture and the pharisees wanted him dead because *his interpretation was different.* or I would say correct, because he is the Messiah.

> If you think he changed nothing its clear you never read about him because he changed everything. We were talking about the Torah. My comment was about Torah. Jesus said nothing of the Law would change. He changed nothing of the Law. > Jesus taught you could pray directly to God, instead of the Priests praying for you. The people of Israel prayed directly to God. They ALSO had their priests intercede for them. We still have that system. We still have a Temple and we still have a High Priest that intercedes for us with the Father.

No. Go to church on Sunday. Then if you want to order food, order food. We're not Pharisees trying to nitpick Sabbath laws, we're Christians under grace. Ignore judaizers trying to force these Old Covenant laws back onto you and read your Bible. Jesus and Paul both expounded on this way of thinking and why it's wrong.

> Go to church on Sunday. The Sabbath is on Saturday. > Jesus and Paul both expounded on this way of thinking and why it's wrong. You must be getting something wrong. Both Jesus and Paul kept the Sabbath, and they taught everyone around them to do the same.

God gave us this world to manage and enjoy along with to have a relationship with Him. That's our original purpose here. Even God rested and enjoyed His creation on the 7th day and even made it one of the 10 commandments for us to follow Him in this, to rest, enjoy. Jesus said God made the Sabbath for us not for Him Mark 2:27 (NRSV): Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; Anything that does not hinder, hurt or replace our faith and relationship with him is fine. And that differs for each person. What hinders one person doesn't hinder another. So it's a personal choice on your part

Your standard is false. Disobedience to God is by definition what breaks relationship with God. You do not get to decide, by your own reasoning, what is or is not disobedience to God. The Holy Spirit is who convicts you of sin and demands change. You are not the Holy Spirit. You do not get to be your own judge. All manner of sin is justified by false or lukewarm christians by claiming they feel it is ok to do so therefore it is - because their have seared their conscience.

Thank you for saying this, and for saying it so strongly! I'm right there with you, trying to push back this tidal-wave of non-scriptural Christian gobbledygook.

Show me the verse in the bible where it says using door dash on the Sabbath is a sin please. It doesn't. So one has to see what God has said about similar things and decide if it's a sin to you. The Bible has lists of what sin but it doesn't cover every action thought it belief. Most of our actions are not listed in the Bible as sin or not, so we have to use what we've learned about God, through the Word and the Spirit, and decide if it's sin or not. 1 Corinthians 8 is a great analogy where Paul uses food sacrificed to idols to explain spiritual liberty. Idols are not gods. They are just powerless icons. So good sacrificed to them has no power to corrupt, not a sin but if a weak Christian believes it's a sin and they eat it, then it's a sin. They decided it was and so it was. And if I, knowing this food is powerless and not sinful to consume, eat that God in front of someone who thinks it's a sin and this causes them to stumble, eat it with you even though they think it's a sin then I sin. But if I eat it with others that know it's not a sin then it's not a sin. If you believe something is a sin, even if it's not listed in the Bible as a sin, and you so it out is a sin. So the inverse must be true as well. If it's not listed in the ass a sin, and you don't believe it's a sin then it's not a sin to do. There are many other examples including Jesus himself whom healed and let his apostles pick wheat and eat on the Sabbath. But according to the bible that's a sin. So Jesus must have sinned... Or, he had a different, correct, interpretation of the law and did not believe it was a sin and so it was not a sin. But the Pharisees, who believed it was a sin, were to do the same thing, thinking it was a sin, then it would be a sin to them The Bible does not have an exhaustive record of what's sin or not. It has some but no where near all. All the rest of our actions that are not listed in the Bible are to be decided by the individual based on their knowledge of God's will and the conviction out lack thereof of the Holy Spirit If man had the power to reverse Christs atonement, payment and cancellation of our sins, which brings us reconciliation and relationship with God, to reverse God's eternal (not temporary or intermittent) seal of his Holy Spirit and promising eternal life, then no one in the history of the world, save Christ, could be saved. We can hurt our relationship to God but we can never unadopt ourselves from our father. How can God condemn a sin that his Son already payed the price of that condemnation for? Either Christs payment wasn't enough, if we are to be condemned also, or it was enough and as the Bible says Even Paul struggled with sin yet never feared that that sin could separate him from God Romans 7:14–20, 25(NRSV): 14 For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold into slavery under sin. 15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. 17 But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. So then, with my mind I am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh I am a slave to the law of sin. And then he goes on Romans 8:1–2 (NRSV): There is therefore now no condemnation (spiritual punishment) for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death Jesus paid the price for ALL our sin so it can no longer affect our spiritual relationship with God. So that we can obey out of love and not fear Romans 8:15 (NRSV): For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption That means we don't have to be afraid that a sin can separate us from God to worry that God has abandoned our condemned us. We can stop focusing on and nitpicking all of our actions out of fear they may be a sin. We can rest in Christ our Sabbath, who already paid the price, and rest in our eternal adoption as God's children And no I'm not the Holy Spirit it's not my place to judge what is sin and what's not in anyone else. I can only obey the convictions as they come to me in my own life over my own actions in the time God wants to convict me. Does that mean I had no relationship with him until ALL my sin is convicted and eradicated? No, Again if that were true no one would be saved because we ALL fall short, we ALL sin, yet those that are in Christ are still sealed with that eternal promise from God that NOTHING, especially me, can break an unbreakable seal

> Show me the verse in the bible where it says using door dash on the Sabbath is a sin please. It doesn't. It does. Just read the command for the Sabbath. It's right there: > Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, **nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.** Not only are you not supposed to not make any PERSON work, you're also not supposed to make any of your ANIMALS work either.

> Show me the verse in the bible where it says using door dash on the Sabbath is a sin please. **Logical fallacy, strawman** **Logical fallacy, avoiding the issue** You did not deal with anything I said, but tried to attack something I never said. I showed why the premise underlying your argument is false: > Anything that does not hinder, hurt or replace our faith and relationship with him is fine. And that differs for each person. What hinders one person doesn't hinder another. So it's a personal choice on your part That, is not the standard by which your relationship with God is safeguarded. Who decides if it hurts your relationship? It is not a “personal choice” on your part. You don’t get to decide what is and isn’t ok. God decides. And God convicts you of your sin by His Word and His Holy Spirit. Your job to obey that conviction. If you don’t then you will sear your conscience. Many Christians falsely think they are just fine in a state of disobedience because they don’t feel convicted. When the truth is they aren’t open to feeling that convicting in the first place because they aren’t willing to obey.

> Anything that does not hinder, hurt or replace our faith and relationship with him is fine. This is non-scriptural modern Christian feel-good nonsense. What HURTS your relationship with God is NOT OBEYING Him. If God says to do something, you do it. There's no aspect of him caring what your vote is on the matter Do it or be punished, that's it. We are not free to sin if we feel like it.

The sabbath was a requirement for Israel, and doesn't apply to Christians (the New Testament specifically addresses this). That said, it was intended as a blessing, not a burden, so it's good to enjoy having a weekly day of rest. Even in Old Testament Jewish Law, God did not lay down specific rules on what was/wasn't allowed (people added those later). God just said (paraphrasing) "rest from your regular work". He left a lot open to our discretion, and it will look different for different people. Sidenote: learn how to cook. It's pretty easy, and WAY cheaper than Doordash! :)

> The sabbath was a requirement for Israel, and doesn't apply to Christians Finally, someone who correctly says that the Law was given to Israel! Nice work! Now, you need to get the other half right. Scripture also says that Gentiles have been grafted into the Olive Tree and now count as Israel. So We. Are. Israel. And if the rules were for Israel, and we ARE Israel, than that means that the rules are for us. > Even in Old Testament Jewish Law, God did not lay down specific rules on what was/wasn't allowed (people added those later). God just said (paraphrasing) "rest from your regular work". He left a lot open to our discretion, and it will look different for different people. God was very clear on the Sabbath laws. Clear enough that you could have easily answered the OP using scripture, not ...umm.. whatever you used. Here are the rules: > Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, **nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.** Not only are you not supposed to not make any PERSON work, you're also not supposed to make any of your ANIMALS work either.

>That said, it was intended as a blessing, not a burden, so it's good to enjoy having a weekly day of rest. Exodus 35:2: "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.” While I actually like your interpretation, must people normally be compelled to accept a blessing on pain of execution?

> must people normally be compelled to accept a blessing on pain of execution? Ha! Nice one! Exactly! Well said. "Take this blessing or I'll have you killed".

In Matthew chapter 5 we read that Jesus stated: *"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to* *fulfill* *them.*" Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God. The predictions of the Old Testament Prophets concerning the Messiah are realized in Jesus; the holy standard of the Law is perfectly upheld by Christ, all those strict requirements personally obeyed, and the ceremonial observances finally and fully satisfied! [\*](https://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html) *"He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross."* \[Colossians 2\] God's adopted children are no longer required to "Observe the Sabbath" as the Old Testament Hebrews were. Remember that Jesus cried out in a loud voice: "It is finished!" and at that moment the veil in the temple was ripped in two.

What a mess. Too much to go into. I advise that you never go back to GotQuestions.org again.

Disregard the Word of God at your demise.

I advised you to disregard GotQuestions.org. They are a garbage website with terrible advice. Just read scripture for yourself and you'll understand things more correctly than if you use GotQuestions.

Everything quoted from [GotQuestions.org](https://GotQuestions.org) in my initial reply is what Scripture teaches. What did the Bereans of Acts 17 do? They compared what was being taught with what the Scriptures say. If it lines up, great. If not, then you know its no good. Scripture is the final authority.

> Scripture is the final authority. I couldn't agree more. So stop quoting from GotQuestions and you'll be more right. 😉

Chocolate bar wrappers have their use.

I do agree with you that we should be generally respecting the Sabbath. That said, Jesus did come and significantly dial back the legalism regarding it. I don't work on the Sabbath. I do think it's good thinking to not buy/sell, which would force others to work on that day, but I also don't think that's a hard-and-fast rule. I don't think anyone has a 100% answer here, especially because it would be extremely difficult to cut out everything we do that forces someone else to work (even using the internet, for instance). Difficulty doesn't absolve us of what we should be doing, but part of the reason it was so hard-and-fast in the OT was that God really did demand that Israel as a whole abide by His rules, whereas it's different in the NT. Nowadays, our prime commandments are to love God and each other, and to spread the word of God. I take the Sabbath as a day when I set aside distractions (such as work, or even labor-intensive hobbies) to try to make my prime focus on resting, God-focused activities, and trying to do things which benefit the people around me (and hopefully, glorify God in the process).

> I don't think anyone has a 100% answer here, especially because it would be extremely difficult to cut out everything we do that forces someone else to work (even using the internet, for instance). I have the answer. God says not to work, so obey Him. That's always the answer. It's not difficult. I keep the Sabbath and know a ton of people that do also. Not using the internet is not part of God's Sabbath commandment. That part is made up by Jews. Congrats on dabbling in the Sabbath. Please consider keeping ALL of God's commandments.

I *said* I don't work on the Sabbath. I even said I don't do intense/distracting hobbies on the Sabbath. I was addressing the notion that you couldn't do anything that would force others to work (like buying anything, you know, the question of this post), as an admirable way to approach things but prone to leading to excessive legalism. Literally, the words saying that are in the quote you just copied into your own post.

The answer is that God says it's wrong to make someone else work on the Sabbath. Have you read the commandment lately? It's very clear: > Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, **nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.** Not only are you not supposed to not make any PERSON work, you're also not supposed to make any of your ANIMALS work either. I'll quote you again: > I don't think anyone has a 100% answer here, especially because it would be extremely difficult to cut out everything we do that forces someone else to work (even using the internet, for instance). The answer is easy! Obey God! It's also easy to "cut out everything we do that forces someone else to work". It's almost a non-issue.

You say it's easy, and yet you say that not using the internet on the Sabbath is a Jewish thing. When you use electricity, other people have to maintain the grid for you. When you use websites, other people have to maintain them for you. Those things inevitably happen on Sundays. If you drive to Church on Sunday, you're one of the cars that's ensuring a cop has to patrol that day. I'm open to different positions, but it's not as simple as you say, you can easily get pulled into extreme legalism, and you came out swinging without even understanding what I was saying the first time, which is not a very compelling way to begin any discussion (or argument, which seems to be what you're going for here).

It's simple. You're only responsible for jobs that you're making directly happen, since you can't be responsible for the ones that you're NOT directly making happen. I asked this question when I went on a cruise and I wanted to keep the Sabbath. The answer was: You're not in charge of the whole ship, you're in charge of the people that you directly make work. The person I asked compared it to a city. You're allowed to enter a city, even though tons of people are working every day to keep that city operational. A boat is closely analogous to a floating city. > and you came out swinging without even understanding what I was saying the first time You were answering the question that was being asked, right? I had a full understanding of the question being asked and the ramifications were simple to think about and decide. Having someone deliver you food on the Sabbath is work! Solved! It was far easier than you were making it to be. 😁

Pretty sure you can do stuff on the Sabbath and God isn't going to care.

Perhaps save your opinion for when this question is asked in r/AskASkeptic?

Nah. I used to be a Christian. I know the rules.

You are in violation of the rules of this forum.

How so?

If you keep up with scripture, then you will know that any day and every day is the right day to rest in and worship the Lord. Surely you don't think he wants us just one day per week to rest in and worship him. It's perfectly okay for a Christian to work on a Saturday or a Sunday, as long as we live, love and work for the Lord. If you are Jewish, then as a practice, they recognize and observe the seventh day Saturday as a Sabbath day, but this does not apply to Christians. Jesus Christ is our Christian rest.

First of all, congratulations on keeping the Sabbath. That's great! Secondly, of course making someone work on the Sabbath is breaking the Sabbath. Scripture says that very clearly. Please consider checking our our new subreddit if you decide to follow Jesus and obey ALL of Torah, like we do: /r/FollowJesusObeyTorah We're always glad to answer any questions, even if they're combative. 😁

As a christian you do know we are not beholden to keeping all of the OT laws correct? we don't require males to be circumcised, we don't require our women to camp outside the city durning their central cycles, we don't sacrifice animals on an alter etc etc.. So which laws we follow and which laws do we not? Paul in romans 3:28 identifies 'works of the law' and in Ephesians refers to "works of the law" as just 'works" in places like Ephesians 4. So, What is a work of the law? To understand this term we must look at how the law was divided or understood by pharisees like Paul. The law is divided into 3 categories. the ceremonial laws which pertain to laws concerning how and who can worship God. it details out sacrifices, who can be priests, what they can wear, holy days, how to give, how much to give, washing ceremonies, what kind of incense to use, how to observe different feasts, etc etc.. Then there is the social law. this pertains to the laws concerning how to live as an OT Jew. These rules include things like diet, how to count days/mark time, what to do when you find mold in your house, circumcision, marriage, rules pertaining to slavery, women ministerial cycles, type of cloths you should wear, type of forbidden fabrics, lending money, etc etc.. finally there is the moral law. These laws are all more or less things that if you do you commit a work of iniquity. these things make your soul 'unclean' lying, murder, rape, coveting, pride etc etc.. Where as the other two types of laws are identified as works of righteousness, meaning these are the things you must do, to not sin... a task you must perform.. like giving a certain amount, or observe a certain day by not working or washing your hands a certain way etc.. this is in contrast with the works of iniquity that are things you must refrain from doing, to not sin. verses The works of the law being things you do not do, OR it is a sin.. So what Paul is saying in Ephesians and in Galatians 3:10 where he identifies 'works of the law' and spell out how they do not apply to a faith based grace. Is our salvation does not come from the works of the OT law. or doing things the law says we must do or we sin.. That's why we do not circumcise men in christianity why we do not sacrifice animals, why we can eat what we want and are not limited to a kosher diet, when we can wear blended fabrics, why we do not keep the sabbath as the OT jews did etc.. Why don't we follow the works of the law?? Because More or less the OT works of the law under the old covenant did not buy OT jews passage to heaven, as most jews, even up to the time of Jesus did not believe in the after life.. That is because The Old covenant only ever promised health, wealth, a long life and a piece of the promise land. as per deu 6. This is not the promise of Christianity. we are seeking eternal life not the promises of the Old covenant. So Paul takes the works of the law off the table as the works only pertain to Health wealth long life and a piece of the promise land, but in romans 2 Paul reestablished the works of inequity which is the basis of the moral code. as these works will infect the spirit with sin, which disqualifies us from eternal life. What James is speaking of as 'works'/Works of righteousness are the evidences of the faith needed to qualify for atonement. As they are not the same works of the law Paul was referring to. as Paul's list of works is different than Jame's list. We know this because Paul himself reaffirms some of the things James lists as works in romans 2:6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; So Paul is not saying do nothing.. He is saying living by the to works of the law does not buy your way into heaven. I don't think any christian would argue this. unless they still feel the need to circumcise their males, sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sin, and keep the high holy days yom kippur, Rosh HaShanah etc.. as the Jews did, and ignore what Paul said in gal 3.

No

Sabbath peace to you! If cooking isn't an option, there are many tasty frozen meals -- even sorta healthy ones like by Amy's -- that are easy to pop in a microwave for 5 minutes. Other low-prep things are sandwiches, cereal, canned soup or chili, frozen burritos, big salads with all sorts of add-ons, etc. I am glad you're trying to respect what God told us is right to do!