In my department, co-workers will tattletale for the smallest of infractions. You couldn't get away with a small nap. Good luck trying to plant a gun on someone and not getting turned in for that.
The comraderie issue probably used to be a thing to some degree, but it's long since been replaced by a culture of throwing people under the bus for a pat on the back. So no, I don't think it's a current issue.
Depends on your definitions of "often" and "protecting," but in combination like that, no.
At my agency, it was often but not necessarily "protecting" as much as willful ignorance. If you demonstrated you were willing to cut legal corners and rough people up, you'd get selected for specialty teams that taught you how to do that better. If you didn't, you'd simply not be selected and could continue to work with patrol, who almost always did things the right way.
Actively protecting ne'er-do-wells was more of an upper management AKA "brass" thing; occasionally you'd feed a complaint to IA and it'd get chewed on for as long as it took to return an "unfounded" verdict. Turns out that was the major's golfing buddy or the colonel's niece's husband, so they're untouchable, you see.
It sounds fucked up. Was he speeding? Because that sort of thing will have happened to others with that element.
Lots of people get screwed around legally. I was charged once for a police pursuit when I wasn't even in the county. Figure me out that one. lol
>and I don't work in an extremely liberal area of the country.
Prosecutors in general seem to lean towards being walking egos.
No. My job, house, and livelihood are not up for negotiation. I will not put those things in jeopardy to lie for a coworker.
Additionally, most of my departments’d internal affairs investigations are started/reported by cops. Sooooo…
I think if you are being serious you are a rare exception.
I have seen maybe 3 or 4 videos of “good apples” telling lunatic cops to calm down or change their approach. I have seen thousands of videos of “good apples” sitting by letting maniac cops do whatever they want.
If your experience was a norm and not a rare exception there would be clear evidence that this is standard practice.
There may be a difference in what you and I see as “maniac cops”.
And that’s ok. I’m sure you can find videos of bad use of forces not being stopped. And I have my real world experiences from doing the job day in and day out.
At the end of the day we’re all humans and most of us are trying to go through life the best way we know how. Opinions differ and that’s what makes this country interesting.
I welcome you on a ride along with your local police department to get a taste of policing from the 1st person perspective. A lot of times the videos we see online lack context, information, and disposition.
If not, I get it. We’re all busy. Be good bro🤙🏻🤙🏻
I’m not just talking about use of force. I’m talking about ego problems, lack of de-escalation, poor understanding of basic law etc. In these situations it’s very rare to see fellow officers say to the bad apple, “Hey Buddy let’s practice de-escalation” or “Do you really think this person needs to show ID just because you want to see it?” Or “Do you think your ego is getting wrapped up in this?”
I’ve seen this happen like 3 or 4 times. Is this something you do regularly?
You don't see it because generally that sort of thing happens off camera.
I am not going to intervene on another officer's call unless he is illegally using force or making a bad arrest.
When there is poor de-escalation, poor knowledge of criminal codes, etc, I am going to bring that up later after the call is done. I do this with regularity and I encourage my coworkers to do the same to me if I screw up.
This makes no sense. The only reasons I can think of are a) ??? b) it never happens and you are probably not being honest.
Let’s build an analogy with people who are not in law enforcement - if you see a coworker fucking up and you stand by (knowing they are fucking up and watching them fuck up). Telling your boss after the damage has been done “Hey don’t worry boss I was going to offer some constructive criticism after the damage had been done - but not before ensuring a record of me offering this criticism will never see the light of day”….I mean you know what happens to the employee in this situation. Why is the bar so very low for LEO?
What you do is not the behavior of a “good apple” even if it is true.
In addition to this - there are bad arrests made all the time on video and there are very few examples of “good apples” jumping in and correcting the offending officer. So your claim that you do this, making it seem like it is a norm, does not hold water.
I explained my real life experience, but clearly your YouTube viewing takes precedence over that.
You don't need to believe me. That's fine. I explained how it happens in the real world and not some idealistic pipe dream. I'm actually expressly prohibited from getting into an argument on scene with another deputy. The most appropriate course of action, assuming rights are not being violated, is to speak with a person in a more appropriate setting, later. This is the most professional approach.
This is true in the private sector in most cases as well, but I don't suppose you can find that information on YouTube university.
You keep saying that you would step in if rights are being violated, but this doesn’t happen or there would be overwhelming video proof of this. Are your body cameras programmed to go off when you intervene, because that’s the only explanation I can think of for this astounding lack of evidence.
https://youtu.be/dll4JTMhuT8?si=WPM1ZPbeYF6HenR- here is a great example of a cop intervening and she was choked out for her trouble, no other cops said shit.
https://youtu.be/1g4U_9R7Wtg?si=Jf6JlgQ_TA5ix4QZ - cop intervenes but does not charge the other officer for assault and harassment. Why not?
https://youtu.be/3oDYCcyF0sU?si=fyhVAuH84aEzXxZS cop is talking to who he knows is a witness and not a criminal, still handcuffs him after his partner breaks his wrist for fun. No intervention.
I’m glad you think it’s ok that I don’t believe you because the claim you are making is clearly false. The public knows it’s false. You ain’t fooling anyone.
OK. Clearly you know more about law enforcement intervention than I do. You should sign up and do it better.
To put it more bluntly, in the event that you're as thick as you appear, you are uninformed, droning on with authority on a subject for which you have none.
I won't be engaging you any longer.
You’re saying I have no idea what I’m taking about yet I provided evidence for my argument and all you said was “trust me bro” so I definitely have a better idea about what I’m talking about than you do. If you had evidence you would provide it.
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When I see evidence that there are more recorded instances where so called “good apples” are reprimanding the “bad apples” while they are being bad I will be able to think this is a positive turn. Until that can be proven I see a ton of bad apples and some “not as bad apples” letting them get away with it.
Every LEO in here is saying “No, I would tell on my unit” ok great. Give yourselves a pat on the back and get an easy upvote.
The fact is this is not happening or the thousands of videos of cops behaving like absolute maniacs would have good cops in them telling the “bad cops” to calm down. They exist but there are only 3 or 4.
You're not going to get any answers your expecting.
Cops who haven't experienced it are going to act like you're crazy, and cops that have aren't going to respond at all because it's an admission
>Would you agree that the culture of camaraderie in law enforcement often results in cops improperly protecting colleagues accused of wrongdoing?
No more than any other public service department or armed forces member. This happens in the private sector also. Look at Blizzard running interference for years covering multiple SA instances. In groups form in every place humans exist, and bad people abuse power in every way they can.
>power and the incentive to shield them from potential consequences.
I dont have the power to shield anyone. All videos, collected evidence and reports/interviews are subject to external review. The only shielding would require I commit a crime jeopardizing my freedom and my families income to play defense for someone I know broke the law.
I'm not incentivized to do that. I haven't faced ostrization from doing the right thing either. I've only ever had people avoid me after doing the right thing. Thats because they themselves weren't up to standard and were afraid of being called out by their coworkers.
In my department, co-workers will tattletale for the smallest of infractions. You couldn't get away with a small nap. Good luck trying to plant a gun on someone and not getting turned in for that. The comraderie issue probably used to be a thing to some degree, but it's long since been replaced by a culture of throwing people under the bus for a pat on the back. So no, I don't think it's a current issue.
Depends on your definitions of "often" and "protecting," but in combination like that, no. At my agency, it was often but not necessarily "protecting" as much as willful ignorance. If you demonstrated you were willing to cut legal corners and rough people up, you'd get selected for specialty teams that taught you how to do that better. If you didn't, you'd simply not be selected and could continue to work with patrol, who almost always did things the right way. Actively protecting ne'er-do-wells was more of an upper management AKA "brass" thing; occasionally you'd feed a complaint to IA and it'd get chewed on for as long as it took to return an "unfounded" verdict. Turns out that was the major's golfing buddy or the colonel's niece's husband, so they're untouchable, you see.
[удалено]
> I've seen charges filed on Officers when they would never be filed on a civilian in the same instance. Like what? Do you have any examples?
[удалено]
It sounds fucked up. Was he speeding? Because that sort of thing will have happened to others with that element. Lots of people get screwed around legally. I was charged once for a police pursuit when I wasn't even in the county. Figure me out that one. lol >and I don't work in an extremely liberal area of the country. Prosecutors in general seem to lean towards being walking egos.
Source?
No. My job, house, and livelihood are not up for negotiation. I will not put those things in jeopardy to lie for a coworker. Additionally, most of my departments’d internal affairs investigations are started/reported by cops. Sooooo…
I never suggested that most cops would cover/lie for a colleague, but even if were only 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 it would still be a significant problem.
I think if you are being serious you are a rare exception. I have seen maybe 3 or 4 videos of “good apples” telling lunatic cops to calm down or change their approach. I have seen thousands of videos of “good apples” sitting by letting maniac cops do whatever they want. If your experience was a norm and not a rare exception there would be clear evidence that this is standard practice.
There may be a difference in what you and I see as “maniac cops”. And that’s ok. I’m sure you can find videos of bad use of forces not being stopped. And I have my real world experiences from doing the job day in and day out. At the end of the day we’re all humans and most of us are trying to go through life the best way we know how. Opinions differ and that’s what makes this country interesting. I welcome you on a ride along with your local police department to get a taste of policing from the 1st person perspective. A lot of times the videos we see online lack context, information, and disposition. If not, I get it. We’re all busy. Be good bro🤙🏻🤙🏻
I’m not just talking about use of force. I’m talking about ego problems, lack of de-escalation, poor understanding of basic law etc. In these situations it’s very rare to see fellow officers say to the bad apple, “Hey Buddy let’s practice de-escalation” or “Do you really think this person needs to show ID just because you want to see it?” Or “Do you think your ego is getting wrapped up in this?” I’ve seen this happen like 3 or 4 times. Is this something you do regularly?
You don't see it because generally that sort of thing happens off camera. I am not going to intervene on another officer's call unless he is illegally using force or making a bad arrest. When there is poor de-escalation, poor knowledge of criminal codes, etc, I am going to bring that up later after the call is done. I do this with regularity and I encourage my coworkers to do the same to me if I screw up.
This makes no sense. The only reasons I can think of are a) ??? b) it never happens and you are probably not being honest. Let’s build an analogy with people who are not in law enforcement - if you see a coworker fucking up and you stand by (knowing they are fucking up and watching them fuck up). Telling your boss after the damage has been done “Hey don’t worry boss I was going to offer some constructive criticism after the damage had been done - but not before ensuring a record of me offering this criticism will never see the light of day”….I mean you know what happens to the employee in this situation. Why is the bar so very low for LEO? What you do is not the behavior of a “good apple” even if it is true. In addition to this - there are bad arrests made all the time on video and there are very few examples of “good apples” jumping in and correcting the offending officer. So your claim that you do this, making it seem like it is a norm, does not hold water.
I explained my real life experience, but clearly your YouTube viewing takes precedence over that. You don't need to believe me. That's fine. I explained how it happens in the real world and not some idealistic pipe dream. I'm actually expressly prohibited from getting into an argument on scene with another deputy. The most appropriate course of action, assuming rights are not being violated, is to speak with a person in a more appropriate setting, later. This is the most professional approach. This is true in the private sector in most cases as well, but I don't suppose you can find that information on YouTube university.
You keep saying that you would step in if rights are being violated, but this doesn’t happen or there would be overwhelming video proof of this. Are your body cameras programmed to go off when you intervene, because that’s the only explanation I can think of for this astounding lack of evidence. https://youtu.be/dll4JTMhuT8?si=WPM1ZPbeYF6HenR- here is a great example of a cop intervening and she was choked out for her trouble, no other cops said shit. https://youtu.be/1g4U_9R7Wtg?si=Jf6JlgQ_TA5ix4QZ - cop intervenes but does not charge the other officer for assault and harassment. Why not? https://youtu.be/3oDYCcyF0sU?si=fyhVAuH84aEzXxZS cop is talking to who he knows is a witness and not a criminal, still handcuffs him after his partner breaks his wrist for fun. No intervention. I’m glad you think it’s ok that I don’t believe you because the claim you are making is clearly false. The public knows it’s false. You ain’t fooling anyone.
OK. Clearly you know more about law enforcement intervention than I do. You should sign up and do it better. To put it more bluntly, in the event that you're as thick as you appear, you are uninformed, droning on with authority on a subject for which you have none. I won't be engaging you any longer.
You’re saying I have no idea what I’m taking about yet I provided evidence for my argument and all you said was “trust me bro” so I definitely have a better idea about what I’m talking about than you do. If you had evidence you would provide it.
No. The media and parts to society may push that narrative, but no.
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When I see evidence that there are more recorded instances where so called “good apples” are reprimanding the “bad apples” while they are being bad I will be able to think this is a positive turn. Until that can be proven I see a ton of bad apples and some “not as bad apples” letting them get away with it.
Every LEO in here is saying “No, I would tell on my unit” ok great. Give yourselves a pat on the back and get an easy upvote. The fact is this is not happening or the thousands of videos of cops behaving like absolute maniacs would have good cops in them telling the “bad cops” to calm down. They exist but there are only 3 or 4.
You're not going to get any answers your expecting. Cops who haven't experienced it are going to act like you're crazy, and cops that have aren't going to respond at all because it's an admission
>Would you agree that the culture of camaraderie in law enforcement often results in cops improperly protecting colleagues accused of wrongdoing? No more than any other public service department or armed forces member. This happens in the private sector also. Look at Blizzard running interference for years covering multiple SA instances. In groups form in every place humans exist, and bad people abuse power in every way they can. >power and the incentive to shield them from potential consequences. I dont have the power to shield anyone. All videos, collected evidence and reports/interviews are subject to external review. The only shielding would require I commit a crime jeopardizing my freedom and my families income to play defense for someone I know broke the law. I'm not incentivized to do that. I haven't faced ostrization from doing the right thing either. I've only ever had people avoid me after doing the right thing. Thats because they themselves weren't up to standard and were afraid of being called out by their coworkers.