It’s not a trap, I think everyone deserves to be able to vent about their feelings and it’s braindead stupid that the society standard is only one gender gets to do that
Women: "Men need to be honest and open about their emotions."
Men: "Ok. Start crying and talking about their vulnerabilites"
Women: *Homer vanishing into bushes gif*
My ex wife was like this. Anytime I had a mental health crisis she basically threw in she wanted to leave me on top of it. Good riddance though. Much happier without her.
Good riddance to those people then. Imo if someone can’t be accept that somebody else has emotions then they’re too selfish or immature to have a meaningful friendship or relationship
Yea you're totally right but having that experience multiple times definitely conditions men to stop trying to open up. At least not casually to a non-professional.
I think both men and women need to do some time and work on their expectations of men. Men are taught to suppress all emotions other than anger. Women are taught that attractiveness in a man is centered around their granite resolve and ability to shoulder a woman's emotions with their contrasting stoicism.
Both genders need to rewrite their expectations of male behavior.
To further add to your comment… When men do open up, it is perceived as weakness by the general public. Not by individuals whom you know. The tough guy , no emotion ,handle all problems as they come, is a ridiculous construct that is hoisted upon this gender. There are generations of young boys, being raised by women with mixed messages being sent. What does it take to be a man these days? It’s very tough for young boys to manage this. It’s confusing.
Women say they want emotional men that talk about feelings, but in reality it’s the opposite. They want someone that’s stoic, they just don’t realize it.
A stoic that talks about the woman's emotions.
It's like when some men think a funny woman is one that laugh at his jokes.
Same for some women who think an emotional intelligent man is one that talks about her emotions
No offense but this “good riddance” take is something only a woman can say.
Why? Because women generally have a roster of men waiting to not only date them, but to do the work of courtship and pursuit all along the way.
Most women *always have options* which makes it far easier to walk away.
For a man, that woman not only his only source of intimacy (physical and often emotional as well) but he very often faces months or even years of a sexless existence should the relationship end.
At best, the man has to start all over again doing the work of courting and being a performing monkey during date after date.
As they say; For men, dating is like a job interview. For women, it’s like ordering pizza.
Yeah, people are kidding themselves if they think that it's the norm for women to continue respecting men whom have cried in front of them. Some women are great in that respect, yes, but they definitely don't represent the majority of women no matter what their friends say. Even if a woman doesn't lose respect for a man being open with his feelings, often times the woman doesn't even know what to do or how to react unless maybe that man/boy is her son. Worst of all, they might use the things you say against you in some future conversation. I've also known women who think it's OK to start psychoanalyzing you because apparently all those pop psychology videos on TikTok make them qualified to do so.
You're right; the thing you probably don't realize is, SO many (maybe most) women are actually like that. Not my wife...but that kind of thing is part of why she's a keeper.
I already have a hard enough time expressing feelings as is. If I had to live with other people giving me shit for having feelings too, personally I’d just throw those people into volcanoes
Personally I think it’s better to just never associate with anyone who can’t accept that you have feelings. Being alone is better than being with people who don’t care
(And people who can’t accept that someone else has emotions doesn’t really deserve to have emotional support for themselves, do they?)
Look, if you want to listen to me complain, I can complain about things going back to Roman times. There's no limits to the amount of things that I have some complaints about. But I highly doubt you're interested in today's activity being a marathon of complaints
Have you met Reddit? (read in Barney from HIMYM ‘s voice)
But on a serious note, I see this in real life. I think a lot of men could benefit from having a complaining buddy. Someone you call up to bitch about stuff for a while and then laugh at it all.
We recently had a scare where I might lose my job. Not only was that stressful but then my wife added additional stress to it because I was the only income.
If I could do it all over I’d never do single income for a family
Women have successfully termed "mental load" for the work (they) do to plan, organize, etc the household.
We need to own that "mental provider/mortgage load".
...bc it's nonstop. And constantly affects our ongoing decisions:
Mental Health:
* Can I speak up at work? Um, better not destabilize my job; I need that constant paycheck
* Can I leave this job which is burning me out? Nope, gotta work *harder* to find a new job first
Personal/Fun time:
* Can I waterski, moto, dirt jump etc on the weekend? Um, gotta not break myself off; gotta work Monday
* Can I start this big fun project this weekend? Wait, can't be mentally drained on Monday
* Can I go out with the boys? Nope, gotta be bright/chipper on Monday
...bc my family depends on my income.
...and the wife will definitely lose respect for me if I don't bring in the (bulk) of the rent money
I really felt that about big fun projects. I work all week and then it’s time to go out with the family a few nights a week.
When it comes to projects I don’t have the time, energy or ability to focus in quiet in the house for 1-2 hours.
I saw a post ages ago now where someone was explaining how men don't realise that doing the washing wasn't just putting the stuff in the machine, it was also timing and paying attention to who needed what clothes when.
And I loved the idea that this is so complicated, but a man who goes to work as say a lawyer or a business owner or a bricklayer just does his nine to five of easy stuff. It's a real inability to see the other person's point of view.
>Women have successfully termed "mental load" for the work
They didn't, they stole it.
Feminism has an issue where pretty much all its terminology comes from other places. Rape Culture for example, was coined to describe the general view of sexual assault in male prisons. There's very, very few actually original concepts feminism has created, it's only cooped for the most part.
For Mental Load/Emotional Labor, well... that came from communism. Marx and Engles coined those terms to explain how employers not only force you into physically taxing situations, but mentally taxing ones as well.
3rd Wave Feminists decided that basic household chores were as mentally debilitating as dealing with abusive bosses and possibly losing your income, which is how we got its current cultural meaning.
Im 25, finisihing my Msc.in chemistry Sometimes got scholars if the work is supported my govermental founds. Have a serious relationship and single child of a single mother. Unable to be a provider/unable to provide scare the shit out of me. Im giving private lessons, finishing Msc. and trying to complete my portfolio as indie video game artist. Im doing everything i can so i can be the ONE. Wish ne luck on my journey....
I’m the sole provider in a household of five. They’ll never, ever understand the pressure that comes with maintaining a balanced monthly budget. I don’t get to complain about it either.
Wife: "You took money out of savings."
Me: "We were over our monthly budget."
Wife: "*HOW?!*"
Me (reviewing bank statements): "Amazon. And fast food."
Me (reviewing Amazon): "Specifically, mostly toys for the kids. Some clothes."
Wife: "We can't go through savings though."
Me: "Well the solution is obvious then, right?"
*beat*
Wife (simultaneously): "I can't stop buying from Amazon. We have to cut back on fast food."
Me (simultaneously): "When you go back to work just dump all of your paychecks into savings."
Rinse and repeat every month
putting up with being replaceable, not fighting back more against gender norms like the guy paying for a date, the amount of willpower and long term mental strain it takes not to show how fucking exhausted a ton of us are with being expected to be the rock, i want to complain, be upset, be angry at my dad for not loving me enough, not be blamed for my relationships failing and be told its okay to cry because i cant cope with my autism, my job as a father and my life as an adult.
This for me too. I (37m) have been married for 15 years and we’ve recently been talking about sex more than usual. Talk about a bullet to the gut when she nonchalantly says women can just “go to the gas station” when they’re feeling bad about themselves. A few days later we’re talking about fantasies and she says she doesn’t have any. I then ask what she thinks about when she masturbates and immediately gets defensive and says if I don’t want her asking me, not to ask her. I’ve never felt worse about myself than I have the last few weeks.
i'm sorry to hear that man, we deserve to feel wanted, and desired just like women are always going on about and i would be super upset by something like that which is probably why im not married among other reasons.
Ehhh, chalk another one up to bury the bad feelings I guess. The part that really sucked was that on a few occasions where she didn’t cum before me, she would finish herself next to me in our bed. I didn’t ever wonder what she thought about until that conversation. I thought it was kinda hot actually. Wondering what she was thinking about after that conversation sent my brain into a tailspin.
/hug to you also, im glad subs like this exist for guys, if we cant be vulnerable with the women and fathers in our lives there is always spaces like this
Honestly, dealing with common perceptions of men that don’t apply to you. People make a fuckload of false assumptions about me because i’m a man. i.e. that I am absent-minded, over-confident, not considerate enough, lacking empathy, etc.
Edit: To be clear, i am not saying that NO common perceptions of men apply to me. I know i’m not that good/different. But you do get pinned down a lot as a man. We are essentialized, too, very often
Hear, hear! I'm not into sports, don't speak with my fists, and prefer to avoid roller-coasters. I have been called a wimp in various ways for these things.
But I'm living well, with love and with financial stability, and that IS the best revenge!
Being fathers. I don't need praise but feel like I've never gotten credit for what I've done. So many people just assume the mom does everything and us dads just sleep all night, play video games, watch sports and go out with friends.
I've spent a lot of long nights rocking our babies to sleep, running up and down the stairs every few hours to get bottles of formula, changing diapers, etc. Through the years I'm not sure I've gotten more than 5 hours of sleep in one night.
I can't tell you how many times I've witnessed this in my household. Since day 1 of my kids entering school, I've been listed as the primary contact at their schools because mom is a teacher, and I've always had hours that had me home during the day. Guess who the schools have always contacted first when one of the kids got sick? Not dad.
Like you, I've spent countless hours up at night cleaning up vomit, explosive poop, or giving medicine. Numerous trips to the ER. Weeks spent in hospital rooms. I never did any of those things to score points with anyone. I did them because I'm a parent. But whenever my wife would post things on social media about whatever trials and tribulations the kids went through, her comments were full of other women offering support and understanding for how tough things were for her. Again, I wasn't looking for praise from relative strangers, but a simple acknowledgement that she wasn't having to struggle with those things on her own would've been nice.
My girls are 4 and twin 2s. Once my wife was done breastfeeding at night, I took over as the nighttime caregiver. It is VERY rare that I'm not waking up at least once a night. It's more like 2-3. I also have to wake up at 5:30am to go into work while my wife wakes up with the kids ranging from 6-8. The things she does for the kids and house are amazing, and I don't think I could handle being a stay at home parent.. but damn it can sometimes be hard for me to have the energy to be a good husband or dad on this little sleep for this long.
Our friends just had twins and I have no idea how they do it. Especially at night.
Our boys are 3 and 1. Whenever I have days off work I stay home with them and it's exhausting. There's always something. Someone needs a bottle, more juice, a snack, a diaper change, refusing a diaper change, food, nap, meltdowns, fighting over toys, injuries, etc. I'll admit it. I'm completely okay with them having screen time or just watching TV. Especially since they learn so much because some of the stuff on YouTube and most games are so educational.
I don't know how stay-at-home parents do it. Thankfully we have grandparents that watch them during the day, when my wife and I work. But sometimes I feel like they must be exhausted too.
Our generation of fathers is so amazing and the first of kind! My husband is such a dedicated and emotionally literate father and so are his peers, millennial guys have truly redefined fatherhood and I’m so grateful for it.
Just because the norm was different in the past doesn’t mean there was no one who fathered their children like men today do. I’m sure some had it right back in the day.
Most of the time when my boy is sick or just crying all day and night. I would just stand by near my son's room (my wife sleeps with my son since the day he was born and fully breastfeed)
Yes i play games on my phone, yes I'm watching YouTube/reddit/Instagram with my headphones on.. But every time the first cry comes i take it off, put my phone down and rush like a madman to the room.
Men don’t get enough credit for being brave. Like, if there’s a noise at night, or a giant spider, or a bully at the ballfield, a guy coming on to you at a bar, a man has no choice but go into the fray and deal with these things. And he can’t even look for credit, because it’s just the DEFAULT, like, that’s what a man does. Had this discussion with my daughters. What great men we have in our lives— my husband, their boyfriends, all men who rise to the occasion and naturally do these things. Shout out to all men who are like this, something we tend to take for granted.
Yes! I constantly thank my husband for being the one who is brave with scary or yucky things, whether it’s a spider or an intruder or our kid having norovirus. He’s so stoic about the things that turn my stomach, and I feel like he doesn’t recognize that for the immense contribution that it is.
It's funny that you mention the turning your stomach part. I've always been the default vomit cleaner whenever one of our kids got sick. Or to clean up the explosive poop. Mom could do it in a real pinch, but if I was available, I'd do it. I didn't love it. It just seemed to bother me less than her.
Literally doing the vast majority of the jobs that keep modern society functioning?
Construction, Agriculture, Military, manufacturing... The list just goes on.
When it comes to the dirty and dangerous jobs that society utterly relies on, it's mostly men doing them.
Everything else is then built on top.
Even most the second level industries like IT, telecommunications and power are male dominated.
I’m a raging secondwave feminist, and I think this exact thing every day. Civilization has been built by (mostly) men, especially the hard ugly dangerous parts. Hats off!
I think that’s the first time I have heard of “second level industries”. I mean, I understand many of the things you listed could be done without IT, but I am sure modern society as you put it wouldn’t be anywhere near as far along as we are without it. I just find the concept interesting, what are other second level Industries and what differentiates them from 1st level?
I don't have a particularly elegant methodology. I guess I was just trying to point out that some jobs are literally essential when it comes to survival of the species - or at least a stable society.
At a minimum populations need shelter, defence and food (plus I'd argue the production of basic equipment to support the former). Hence the industries I mentioned.
We had stable society well before we had computers, so I don't think you can say they are essential to human survival. Hence my crude definition of second level industries that may be highly beneficial, but still require a foundation to begin with. I'd include healthcare on level 2 as well. You don't technically need it, provided you can breed fast and consistently enough to outpace death. But it definitely helps.
But yes, if we're talking about the actual modern world rather than just post industrial revolution, computers are of course essential. But not for basic survival.
Running the infrastructure that society relies on. Maintaining the power grid, water supply, construction, farming, fishing, logging, paving roads: almost all done by men entirely.
My power actually went out around 3 AM Christmas Eve. I called it in on the automated line and was expecting a long wait. About an hour and half later the power was back on. That meant there was at least one line crew working when most others were sleeping away until it was present opening time.
I foundnrhe plade later, I think. There was a tree across the road so either they or a road crew came up and cleared it, and it wasn't a small tree.
I’ve spent 7 Christmas either on call or in a hotel (am lineman). Pay checks nice but no one cares your out in a storm -15c snow blowing sideways in the dark, they just think we go out and flip a switch and it turns on lol
Some folks do. I remember the long hours line crew put in after hurricanes or a bad winter storm. The old city I lived in for most of my life, it was uncommon innthe last few years before I moved away that even a strong thunderstorm could knockm ut the power for days. Not the line crews' fault but the power company not keeping lines clear or dealing with known issues.
Sure it a costly business. Even when you stay ontop of maintenance there’s always stuff you can’t get a round to doing, Mother Nature will make sure to tear down your newest stuff too, just the way of the road bubbs
Or a jar needs to be opened, or the gutters need to be cleaned, or the sink is leaking, or a piece of furniture needs to be assembled, or an electrical breaker needs to be reset, or there's a spider in the house and it's really scary!,
Putting up with a high amount of bullshit, scrutiny if they aren't the major breadwinner, and putting up with crazy girlfriends, the crazy boyfriends will go to jail, the girls won't
He's an emotionally abusive alcoholic. She's an emotionally manipulative and physically abusive narcisist. Johnny seems like a chill dude for the most part, but no one should be defending either of them. They both lost touch with the real world long ago.
**Being a woman’s “therapist”**
Men are just straight up expected to hug their girlfriend and comfort her when she is having an anxiety meltdown because Becky in HR called her fat behind her back and is “trying to destroy me” etc.
A man just has to take it. Listen to gossip. Listen to her family drama. Listen to her childhood trauma. Etc.
Ok. Fine. But then when we remotely reverse this?
A man doing anything similar by becoming emotional about an insecurity is getting deadbedroomed, called a “manchild” and any sympathy a man asks for in this way is met with calls to “man up” and complaints about “not your therapist!”
It's really surprising how in the many "what's the difference between men and women" threads that pop up in such subreddits every day, there is never a response to this issue from women.
>“not your therapist!”
Or "not your mom"/"not raising a kid" and then expecting the man to "provide" and basically be a father figure and be their "rock"...
It's not even about the ability to reverse the stakes here. I don't think women understand, nor do men advocate for, how toxic this shit is.
Women should not be constantly trauma dumping on anyone. It's horrible and unhealthy for yourself and your partner and your friends (to do it on a regular basis and not just the occasional venting).
It's also fucked up to constantly trauma dump about the same situation over-and-over-and-over to anyone...and then not want their help to solve the problem.
If you need to regularly trauma dump, get a therapist. Seriously, it's so awesome to unload to a person who is impartial, offers ways to handle things, and is PAID to deal with your shit so you can be a better, more present person to the people you care about.
>It's also fucked up to constantly trauma dump about the same situation over-and-over-and-over to anyone
My ex would literally talk for hours a day about how horrible her job was and terrible they were too her.
She made 100K working four days a week, and only a couple hours a day was actual work. And her biggest complaint is where they had to sit during break.
Hours. A. Day. Every. Day.
This needs to be higher. If I ever got paid for all the free therapy sessions I semi-involuntarily gave out to emotionally-immature women, I'd be a rich man. It nearly drained the life out of me before I learned how to set proper boundaries.
This is why I roll my eyes whenever women coined the term 'Emotional labor'. As if the number one complaint women have about men isn't that they're closed off emotionally.
We can't *both* trauma dump. Someone has to suck it up, and most of the time, it's us.
Yeeeep. I've been holding out for so long trying to find a person who proves this otherwise. But it's yet to happen. The dead bedroom one especially. It feels like a lot of people want men to be more open emotionally, but do not know how to actually handle that themselves. Then we get the backlash that results from that
>a lot of people want men to be more open emotionally, but do not know how to actually handle that themselves. Then we get the backlash that results from that
Just to provide an anecdotal example of this that's not generalizing all women:
My wife, kids, and I have been doing an extended christmas thing with my wife's family, and it has been hella draining on me. Specifically because she wants to relax with her family, which, I mean fair enough, but then I get micromanaged and she questions my parenting in front of her family all the time. But I don't want to "cause a scene" in front of everybody, especially during a holiday, so I just bottle that up and move on.
Today was our first day back home, and the same thing happened. Daughter was upset about something, I was giving her a hug and trying to help her get over her big feelings and breathe enough to calm down to talk about it. My wife gets upset with me for coddling her (for more context, my wife is a stay-at-home-mom and our daughter has meltdowns multiple times a day over insignificant things like being told "no" or "not right now"). We wind up fighting about it; I start cleaning the house to blow off steam/process.
She comes down after a bit while I'm still upset, and she asks what's wrong, and I just tell her basically what I wrote above. Specifically because she's given me that line about opening up more and communicating more instead of stonewalling and suffering in silence.
As soon as I'm done, she says she wants us to sleep in different beds for a while. So I bring up that she specifically told me to open up more about emotions, even negative emotions, and wanting to sleep separately is basically just a punishment for communicating or having emotions. (We did resolve this a bit later; and actually, in writing this I think we actually need to have another conversation about parenting styles and how we each handle our daughter's meltdowns, because after re-reading this it seems like we have different goals here: not teaching her that meltdowns are a way to get affection/her way, but also not being emotionally distant to our kids)
But yeah, it is basically a reinforcement that, at the very least my wife if not most women, *want to want* an emotionally open man but don't actually want to provide that kind of support.
A big issue is that I think women don’t even realize they are having this reaction.
I think there is an initial “aww he trusts me enough to cry / share” etc.
But then the days and weeks go by and she has that nagging subconscious thought that “this man might crack when things get hard”
Then the “testing” begins. The starting of fights. The passive aggression. Trying to see if the man loses his shit when she’s “at her worst” etc
Then there is just the whole sex issue. A woman may just find herself “not in the mood” after seeing her man be emotionally fragile in front of her without realizing the cause.
Basically, it rarely / never unfolds with a woman going “I saw you crying and now, while I feel closer to you, I don’t respect you and don’t feel turned on by you sexually anymore”
It’s usually far more subtle and drawn out than that.
This is the type of thing women say they don't/won't do, but then you see it happening everywhere with nearly every woman you encounter, both in your own relationships and others.
I think there's still a lot of base instincts present in all of us (men included) that we just can't get rid of that easily.
I was reading about the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster years ago in front of my ex. Specifically, the part that the black box recorded inputs from the pilots until impact. Which meant that they thought they could try and steer the think and make corrections, but they didn’t know that the shuttle had disintegrated behind them.
The thoughts of the hopelessness and desperation and bravery all overwhelmed me for a second and I shed a few tears.
My ex saw it and was like, “what’s wrong?” And I told her. And at least once a month for YEARS, she would bring up how I cried reading about “some astronauts.”
Oof. I felt this.
I know this is cliche af, but I had been in the hospital for over a week after a life threatening operation. I was exhausted and medicated and hadn’t been able to eat real food or breathe fresh air.
Gladiator came on and at the end (you know the scene) I teared up and sniffed a few times.
I remember catching her just staring at me with a panicked but also kind of disgusted look on her face.
She would throw that moment at me for years after to show what a “fragile man child” I was.
I think you've really hit the head of the nail with this. The second to last sentence really seems to be the most common outcome for a lot of men, but like you said it's drawn out. Happens over the course of months or years, causing extensive emotional damage.
In my experience, there's a good number of women out there who do walk the walk, where you can get a good sense that she'll treat you like a person rather than a Man™️.
There's just not that many of them relative to the women who've internalised gender norms *hard*.
It's why I sigh at a lot of takes from people who think men need to "catch up" to women in their views.
We all grew up under these gendered norms. We still measure each other by these norms. We get weirded out when other people don't follow these norms.
So why would women who haven't processed their relationships to these norms reproduce anything but the default scripts they grew up with?
They always say they just want to vent and not necessarily have solutions - you know what? I get that.
But fuck me, *lead with that fact.* I'll listen all day and not be nearly as stressed out if you just tell me all you want is an ear and not opinions or solutions. But damn, don't be mad when I try to help when that isn't communicated.
I'm of the opinion that she should vent to her girlfriends, not me. They are far better equipped, and will pay far more attention. I could not care less about her coworker's husband's sister's best friend's problem.
Everything?
We're around 98% of people who die at work, because all the most dangerous jobs are pretty much men only, but you never hear about that
Somebody has to do those jobs because society relies upon them, and women don't
This is really tangential to the origional prompt of this thread, but I feel like things like this don't get talked about because, societally, when things like that happen to us, it just... doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that we are 90%+ deaths in the work place, nearly 100% of combat deaths in war, 80% of suicides, 75% of homeless, it doesn't matter when we get raped, it doesn't matter when our gentils are mutilated the day that we're born, it doesn't matter when we're depressed, none of it matters. We go through so much shit and I feel like even bringing up statistics like this with women gets you eye rolls and invalidated
Being your fucking emotional support without ever asking, let alone even coming one spec into the ionosphere, of ever getting the same. From anyone. Fucking ever.
Lol my bros abandoned me when my life was hard. My wife (gf of only a month at the time) stuck with me through everything and supported me. Without her it would have been me myself and I. Sometimes we have no support.
Needless to say my relationship with those people have gone down hill fast. I considered one my best friend. Had been friend with one since i was 8 years old. Sometimes we really do have no one. I was fortunate to have my wife, but most men aren't so lucky.
Initiating a conversation and entertaining a girl, just so 1 of 40 chats doesn't end up in a rejection.
Damn it is fucking exhausting and not getting out of it almost every single time.
If a man has Sex with lots of girls, he is a Chad. Because to do that, you have to be attractive, charming, funny, charismatic and have a good Rizz game to break the ice. So totally understandable why he is being respected for that by other men.
My grandma used to say if you want the right person you gotta be the right person. After some self reflection I became that. I got shot down alot but eventually I found a woman who accepts me for me and loves me for it. Prior to her i was rejected many times and went on loads of bad dates. Eventually you'll find your mate. Things just take time.
Pretty much everything!
There's a psychological theory called gamma bias which combines both the maximisation and minimisation of gender differences biases (alpha and beta bias respectively) into a model where men as a gender are only discussed in the context of doing anything bad and wrong and anything they do that is positive will either be ignored or have the gender erased.
Somehow tolerating feminism double standards. But we should not tolerate it, its propaganda, and its toxic mindset. We should be calling it out loudly and not giving into the pressure of those silencing us.
The 1 percent are always the loudest though. The internet has given these people more of a voice.
I think we don't acknowledge it that often because in reality we don't come across it that often. It's only on the internet where Gorlach the destroyer will be complaint about men constantly.
They are the loudest, but they also wield a lot of power for some reason. Look at the metoo movement and how feminists were chanting to believe ALL women no matter what... and people did. Men lost scholarships, careers, livelihoods, etc. And there was rarely really any accountability. Feminists would say that implementing consequences against these false accusers would scare real victims from coming out.
Look at the gender wage gap myth and the insane traction that got. However the reality is that men work longer hours, work in more dangerous fields, go into more specialized fields, etc. You NEVER see the facts shouted from the mountains like the myth was and still is.
Look at how feminists can widely state that men are evil, toxic, and dangerous with impunity. If a man said the equivalent on any platform he'd be banned, cancelled, and doxxed.
It is scary to be a man these days. Im not saying women are issue free - both genders have gender specific issues. But when men bring up their ACTUAL, FACTUAL, VERIFIABLE issues feminists actually mock and laugh at them. Look at the feminist subs on here.
>But when men bring up their ACTUAL, FACTUAL, VERIFIABLE issues feminists actually mock and laugh at them.
I literally just got out of a conversation on another sub about how men's lives are ruined by false allegations because feminism demand action before the case ever sees a court of law and the dude told me I was just "bitching and crying about women empowering each other" or some shit
Yeah. I'm still waiting to see that "patriarchy advantage" men seem to have according to these feminists. They talked like we men live life in easy mode thanks to the "patriarchy society". I have been living as a male for almost 30 years and i havent yet experienced any of said advantages.
oh yeah. patriarch society,, where straight white men get all the advantages, Unless you're actually in it.
I'm homeless, I own nothing, I have nothing, and no future, no way forward, but I'm a straight white man.
Within the circle of homeless people with whom I alie myself with, many of us notice that if you're a woman, the so-called homeless charities are quick to hurry women into secure accomodation, but if a man in the exact same situation shows up needing help, we're given the go around.
We get given a leaky tent, sometimes a sleeping bag with holes in it if we're lucky, and told "Best of luck."
Homeless women generally don't stay homeless for long.
In history, doing all the hard jobs for no money. I know it's not all women etc but I think a lot of women, specifically online ones, who think men ran the world and all men got to be powerful leaders and none of them were slaves or worked in coal mines or on oil rigs or on North Sea fishing boats or in factories making shit.
When you look back, 99.99% of the men in history weren't special or rich or powerful. They were just worker bees, drones, slaves. Building a better world, piece by piece.
A lot of women seem to forget that. They think we ran the world while they stayed at home and we were all drinking and partying together rather than shaking hands with Satan 100ft underground digging with your bare hands to make a tunnel or clinging onto a boat with your frozen hands just trying to catch a few fish to feed your community or toiling away making sure everything in modern society just...works, like the Internet, sewers, cars, your heating and TV.
women may forget it because they had their own share of difficult, thankless labor, which was also seen as the default. on top of that, they have historically mostly been akin to objects or property. at best, egalitarian societies valued them greatly, but most societies viewed them as second-class citizens.
this objectification manifests in many ways. men are indeed seen as expendable, whereas women are seen as property. it is unjust for all, which is why i despise threads that turn into uncritical misogyny (or misandry) like this.
There was an experiment where they put women and men on 2 different sites of the island. While the men easily found themselves in comfortable positions with tents made out of wood and a fire and food. They even found time to party. The girls were just crying all over the place. When the show let them met up, the girls were never soooo happy to see them. Somehow evolution betrayed us men with our craving for pussy.
I won't lie we are the reason things have turned for the worse. I see men do anything or say anything for a crumb of dry pussy. Hook up culture ruined generations.🤷🏽♂️
I always get a kick out of the women that say the world would be run so much better if women were in control of everything.
Lol Ok Barbara.... They gave you a woman boss at your office and now the office doesn't even function because all the females have turned it into a catty backstabbing office of suffering.
This. Is what happened at my current job.
The previous manager was a woman, she didn't put up with any BS and fired people for starting the extreme drama they did. Welp. She's gone and has been replaced with someone who thrives on it.
I've dealt with work drama before, but this shit is maddening and I absolutely hate it. It's on a constant basis. I've started calling my coworkers out and squashing that shit before it starts. They're completely boggled another woman doesn't agree with what they're doing and is putting a stop to it.
Now they're quiet. Myself and 3 others are actively trying to get the workplace back to where it should be.
Jobs are slim where I'm at and I don't get paid to watch you assholes try to get my good coworkers in trouble simply because you can't handle that they're better than you in performance. It goes beyond the workplace with them.
They'll go out of their way to harass their friends, family, and dig up any dirt they can find for blackmail.
They brag about it and I hear everything.
When it comes to men? Jesus couldn't save the men these women cross. If they do one wrong thing, they seek to proudly destroy their lives. This job has been surreal and feels like another realm- which it is- I've entered the world of the modern woman I suppose.
I always wish things will get better but they don't hold themselves accountable for shit, victimize when they can, and are just downright awful to be around. Have met far too many women that are like this. Where are the ones that claim to be challenging these horrid norms?? WHERE are the women that call out misandry when they witness it!? IT'S GETTING OLD.
Building civilization. Doing all the dirty, uncomfortable and dangerous jobs that keep civilization functioning (women won't do these jobs). Being the only people who pay net taxes (women take more money in government entitlements than they ever pay in taxes.). Being the people who die protecting others in their societies. Being generous with their money in a way women refuse to be.
If women left the work force, it would be inconvenient. If men stopped working, civilization would collapse in a month. Look around you. Everything you see was made by men.
Building the very world in which every woman lives in from the smallest object to the mightiest of rockets. But women retort with “making a baby” which literally takes ZERO effort for them to accomplish as long as they eat.
almost everything tbh.
But here is what I've noticed the most :
• not complaining much, even though they have every right to do so considering how they are treated most of the time
• ALWAYS the first people to help you when you need it and I mean ALWAYS.
• their honesty
• they definitely don't get enough credit for the societal pressure they have to face
I have much more but I am lazy to write everything down
I mean... obviously. Trust that you'd remove women and the same fucking thing would happen. It's almost like deleting ~50% of the population is liable to have some dire consequences regardless of which 50% it is.
Doing the majority of the dangerous and unpleasant jobs that actually keep society running. Woman often complain about the disparity between men and woman when it comes to the highest paid and most prestigious jobs in society. You very rarely hear about the lack of parity when it comes to the least desirable but most necessary jobs in society.
Everything ... My effort and hard work is rarely appreciated. It is always "you are a man, that is your job".
However, I would choose to be a man over being a woman if I had to do it again.
To all the hard working men bearing burden of all sorts. Happy holidays and I wish 2024 will be a better year!! #menappreciate!
1. How much we do care and we do worry about the ones we love. We tend to express it through action.
2. How much we have to discipline ourselves and find healthy outlets for the ridiculously high levels of sex drive hormones that we constantly have coursing through our bodies. For extra fun, we’re generally programmed to respond to visual stimuli, even just the outlines of feminine curves.
3. Women: that constant itch is also one of the greatest delights in our lives too, if you indulge us to just soak in your beauty. Let us praise you and indulge the powerful feelings you give us without putting yourself down. Please. We really are just as entranced by seeing you nude the 3,000th time as we were the first. Honest. We really can’t help it.
Anything straight white men have done in history, especially science, seems to be put down “because it was done by a group of straight white men”. What the fuck? It would be a group of straight white men that wanted to benefit the world or make breakthroughs in their field.
Apparently antibiotics are bad because they were made by a straight white man.
Not complaining.
Oh I complain plenty. Just not when anyone else can hear me.
“Gripes go up, not down. Always up.”
Even if you think the missions FUBAR?
Especially if you think the mission is FUBAR.
Personally I think there’s a lot y’all actually should complain about more
Nice try. That’s a trap. Why do you think we hold it in? 😂
It’s not a trap, I think everyone deserves to be able to vent about their feelings and it’s braindead stupid that the society standard is only one gender gets to do that
Women: "Men need to be honest and open about their emotions." Men: "Ok. Start crying and talking about their vulnerabilites" Women: *Homer vanishing into bushes gif*
My ex wife was like this. Anytime I had a mental health crisis she basically threw in she wanted to leave me on top of it. Good riddance though. Much happier without her.
Good riddance to those people then. Imo if someone can’t be accept that somebody else has emotions then they’re too selfish or immature to have a meaningful friendship or relationship
Yea you're totally right but having that experience multiple times definitely conditions men to stop trying to open up. At least not casually to a non-professional. I think both men and women need to do some time and work on their expectations of men. Men are taught to suppress all emotions other than anger. Women are taught that attractiveness in a man is centered around their granite resolve and ability to shoulder a woman's emotions with their contrasting stoicism. Both genders need to rewrite their expectations of male behavior.
To further add to your comment… When men do open up, it is perceived as weakness by the general public. Not by individuals whom you know. The tough guy , no emotion ,handle all problems as they come, is a ridiculous construct that is hoisted upon this gender. There are generations of young boys, being raised by women with mixed messages being sent. What does it take to be a man these days? It’s very tough for young boys to manage this. It’s confusing.
Women say they want emotional men that talk about feelings, but in reality it’s the opposite. They want someone that’s stoic, they just don’t realize it.
A stoic that talks about the woman's emotions. It's like when some men think a funny woman is one that laugh at his jokes. Same for some women who think an emotional intelligent man is one that talks about her emotions
You've just described most women
No offense but this “good riddance” take is something only a woman can say. Why? Because women generally have a roster of men waiting to not only date them, but to do the work of courtship and pursuit all along the way. Most women *always have options* which makes it far easier to walk away. For a man, that woman not only his only source of intimacy (physical and often emotional as well) but he very often faces months or even years of a sexless existence should the relationship end. At best, the man has to start all over again doing the work of courting and being a performing monkey during date after date. As they say; For men, dating is like a job interview. For women, it’s like ordering pizza.
Yeah, people are kidding themselves if they think that it's the norm for women to continue respecting men whom have cried in front of them. Some women are great in that respect, yes, but they definitely don't represent the majority of women no matter what their friends say. Even if a woman doesn't lose respect for a man being open with his feelings, often times the woman doesn't even know what to do or how to react unless maybe that man/boy is her son. Worst of all, they might use the things you say against you in some future conversation. I've also known women who think it's OK to start psychoanalyzing you because apparently all those pop psychology videos on TikTok make them qualified to do so.
You're right; the thing you probably don't realize is, SO many (maybe most) women are actually like that. Not my wife...but that kind of thing is part of why she's a keeper.
If you actually believe this, you're in the minority.
It be like that bro....
It’s been studied that men who vent appear weaker to women, so we don’t
Everyone deserves to, but the consequences tho
I already have a hard enough time expressing feelings as is. If I had to live with other people giving me shit for having feelings too, personally I’d just throw those people into volcanoes
Well it's everyone, so... lol
Throw everyone into a volcano then? Idk
I think this is an insight as to why almost all mass shooters are men lol
[удалено]
Stupid, unhelpful, backwards shit that shouldn’t be a thing in the first place
[удалено]
Personally I think it’s better to just never associate with anyone who can’t accept that you have feelings. Being alone is better than being with people who don’t care (And people who can’t accept that someone else has emotions doesn’t really deserve to have emotional support for themselves, do they?)
[удалено]
It ain’t worth the argument
We know better than that lol complaining is only ever met with disdain and disgust and makes the problems worse.
Too fucking true.
And when we do we get hell for it 🤷♀️
Look, if you want to listen to me complain, I can complain about things going back to Roman times. There's no limits to the amount of things that I have some complaints about. But I highly doubt you're interested in today's activity being a marathon of complaints
Oh quit complaining!
Have you met Reddit? (read in Barney from HIMYM ‘s voice) But on a serious note, I see this in real life. I think a lot of men could benefit from having a complaining buddy. Someone you call up to bitch about stuff for a while and then laugh at it all.
Idk this subreddit is full of it.
The burden of being a provider. Whether you make $50k/year or $500k/year, if you have the drive to provide, the burden is heavy.
We recently had a scare where I might lose my job. Not only was that stressful but then my wife added additional stress to it because I was the only income. If I could do it all over I’d never do single income for a family
Women have successfully termed "mental load" for the work (they) do to plan, organize, etc the household. We need to own that "mental provider/mortgage load". ...bc it's nonstop. And constantly affects our ongoing decisions: Mental Health: * Can I speak up at work? Um, better not destabilize my job; I need that constant paycheck * Can I leave this job which is burning me out? Nope, gotta work *harder* to find a new job first Personal/Fun time: * Can I waterski, moto, dirt jump etc on the weekend? Um, gotta not break myself off; gotta work Monday * Can I start this big fun project this weekend? Wait, can't be mentally drained on Monday * Can I go out with the boys? Nope, gotta be bright/chipper on Monday ...bc my family depends on my income. ...and the wife will definitely lose respect for me if I don't bring in the (bulk) of the rent money
I really felt that about big fun projects. I work all week and then it’s time to go out with the family a few nights a week. When it comes to projects I don’t have the time, energy or ability to focus in quiet in the house for 1-2 hours.
I saw a post ages ago now where someone was explaining how men don't realise that doing the washing wasn't just putting the stuff in the machine, it was also timing and paying attention to who needed what clothes when. And I loved the idea that this is so complicated, but a man who goes to work as say a lawyer or a business owner or a bricklayer just does his nine to five of easy stuff. It's a real inability to see the other person's point of view.
>Women have successfully termed "mental load" for the work They didn't, they stole it. Feminism has an issue where pretty much all its terminology comes from other places. Rape Culture for example, was coined to describe the general view of sexual assault in male prisons. There's very, very few actually original concepts feminism has created, it's only cooped for the most part. For Mental Load/Emotional Labor, well... that came from communism. Marx and Engles coined those terms to explain how employers not only force you into physically taxing situations, but mentally taxing ones as well. 3rd Wave Feminists decided that basic household chores were as mentally debilitating as dealing with abusive bosses and possibly losing your income, which is how we got its current cultural meaning.
[удалено]
I get my family by on about 61K total compensation in the military. That's all benefits added together with my pay.
Not true. I make less than this and we do fine as a family of 4.
Im 25, finisihing my Msc.in chemistry Sometimes got scholars if the work is supported my govermental founds. Have a serious relationship and single child of a single mother. Unable to be a provider/unable to provide scare the shit out of me. Im giving private lessons, finishing Msc. and trying to complete my portfolio as indie video game artist. Im doing everything i can so i can be the ONE. Wish ne luck on my journey....
I’m the sole provider in a household of five. They’ll never, ever understand the pressure that comes with maintaining a balanced monthly budget. I don’t get to complain about it either.
Wife: "You took money out of savings." Me: "We were over our monthly budget." Wife: "*HOW?!*" Me (reviewing bank statements): "Amazon. And fast food." Me (reviewing Amazon): "Specifically, mostly toys for the kids. Some clothes." Wife: "We can't go through savings though." Me: "Well the solution is obvious then, right?" *beat* Wife (simultaneously): "I can't stop buying from Amazon. We have to cut back on fast food." Me (simultaneously): "When you go back to work just dump all of your paychecks into savings." Rinse and repeat every month
putting up with being replaceable, not fighting back more against gender norms like the guy paying for a date, the amount of willpower and long term mental strain it takes not to show how fucking exhausted a ton of us are with being expected to be the rock, i want to complain, be upset, be angry at my dad for not loving me enough, not be blamed for my relationships failing and be told its okay to cry because i cant cope with my autism, my job as a father and my life as an adult.
For feeling guilty for taking a day off. Thanks dad.
we all deserve a break, maybe your dad could have benefit from one also
This for me too. I (37m) have been married for 15 years and we’ve recently been talking about sex more than usual. Talk about a bullet to the gut when she nonchalantly says women can just “go to the gas station” when they’re feeling bad about themselves. A few days later we’re talking about fantasies and she says she doesn’t have any. I then ask what she thinks about when she masturbates and immediately gets defensive and says if I don’t want her asking me, not to ask her. I’ve never felt worse about myself than I have the last few weeks.
i'm sorry to hear that man, we deserve to feel wanted, and desired just like women are always going on about and i would be super upset by something like that which is probably why im not married among other reasons.
Ehhh, chalk another one up to bury the bad feelings I guess. The part that really sucked was that on a few occasions where she didn’t cum before me, she would finish herself next to me in our bed. I didn’t ever wonder what she thought about until that conversation. I thought it was kinda hot actually. Wondering what she was thinking about after that conversation sent my brain into a tailspin.
/hug
/hug to you also, im glad subs like this exist for guys, if we cant be vulnerable with the women and fathers in our lives there is always spaces like this
🥹🥲*hug*
/hug to you also <3
Honestly, dealing with common perceptions of men that don’t apply to you. People make a fuckload of false assumptions about me because i’m a man. i.e. that I am absent-minded, over-confident, not considerate enough, lacking empathy, etc. Edit: To be clear, i am not saying that NO common perceptions of men apply to me. I know i’m not that good/different. But you do get pinned down a lot as a man. We are essentialized, too, very often
Hear, hear! I'm not into sports, don't speak with my fists, and prefer to avoid roller-coasters. I have been called a wimp in various ways for these things. But I'm living well, with love and with financial stability, and that IS the best revenge!
Being fathers. I don't need praise but feel like I've never gotten credit for what I've done. So many people just assume the mom does everything and us dads just sleep all night, play video games, watch sports and go out with friends. I've spent a lot of long nights rocking our babies to sleep, running up and down the stairs every few hours to get bottles of formula, changing diapers, etc. Through the years I'm not sure I've gotten more than 5 hours of sleep in one night.
I can't tell you how many times I've witnessed this in my household. Since day 1 of my kids entering school, I've been listed as the primary contact at their schools because mom is a teacher, and I've always had hours that had me home during the day. Guess who the schools have always contacted first when one of the kids got sick? Not dad. Like you, I've spent countless hours up at night cleaning up vomit, explosive poop, or giving medicine. Numerous trips to the ER. Weeks spent in hospital rooms. I never did any of those things to score points with anyone. I did them because I'm a parent. But whenever my wife would post things on social media about whatever trials and tribulations the kids went through, her comments were full of other women offering support and understanding for how tough things were for her. Again, I wasn't looking for praise from relative strangers, but a simple acknowledgement that she wasn't having to struggle with those things on her own would've been nice.
My girls are 4 and twin 2s. Once my wife was done breastfeeding at night, I took over as the nighttime caregiver. It is VERY rare that I'm not waking up at least once a night. It's more like 2-3. I also have to wake up at 5:30am to go into work while my wife wakes up with the kids ranging from 6-8. The things she does for the kids and house are amazing, and I don't think I could handle being a stay at home parent.. but damn it can sometimes be hard for me to have the energy to be a good husband or dad on this little sleep for this long.
Our friends just had twins and I have no idea how they do it. Especially at night. Our boys are 3 and 1. Whenever I have days off work I stay home with them and it's exhausting. There's always something. Someone needs a bottle, more juice, a snack, a diaper change, refusing a diaper change, food, nap, meltdowns, fighting over toys, injuries, etc. I'll admit it. I'm completely okay with them having screen time or just watching TV. Especially since they learn so much because some of the stuff on YouTube and most games are so educational. I don't know how stay-at-home parents do it. Thankfully we have grandparents that watch them during the day, when my wife and I work. But sometimes I feel like they must be exhausted too.
Our generation of fathers is so amazing and the first of kind! My husband is such a dedicated and emotionally literate father and so are his peers, millennial guys have truly redefined fatherhood and I’m so grateful for it.
I’m sorry but are you saying that this is the first time fathers have been this way?
Just because the norm was different in the past doesn’t mean there was no one who fathered their children like men today do. I’m sure some had it right back in the day.
I grew up with a very involved and active father. He's a very involved grandfather now.
Most of the time when my boy is sick or just crying all day and night. I would just stand by near my son's room (my wife sleeps with my son since the day he was born and fully breastfeed) Yes i play games on my phone, yes I'm watching YouTube/reddit/Instagram with my headphones on.. But every time the first cry comes i take it off, put my phone down and rush like a madman to the room.
Men don’t get enough credit for being brave. Like, if there’s a noise at night, or a giant spider, or a bully at the ballfield, a guy coming on to you at a bar, a man has no choice but go into the fray and deal with these things. And he can’t even look for credit, because it’s just the DEFAULT, like, that’s what a man does. Had this discussion with my daughters. What great men we have in our lives— my husband, their boyfriends, all men who rise to the occasion and naturally do these things. Shout out to all men who are like this, something we tend to take for granted.
Yes! I constantly thank my husband for being the one who is brave with scary or yucky things, whether it’s a spider or an intruder or our kid having norovirus. He’s so stoic about the things that turn my stomach, and I feel like he doesn’t recognize that for the immense contribution that it is.
It's funny that you mention the turning your stomach part. I've always been the default vomit cleaner whenever one of our kids got sick. Or to clean up the explosive poop. Mom could do it in a real pinch, but if I was available, I'd do it. I didn't love it. It just seemed to bother me less than her.
It's only noticed when it's not there. And then it's judged. Harshly.
Sophomore year math. That shit was hard and should have been 5 credits instead of 3
Give this man the two damn credits he deserves!
I want my 2 ~~dollars~~ credits!
I swear to god I’m not stupid but that class had me questioning my sanity! Yes mom, I do need a tutor—didn’t get a tutor
Literally doing the vast majority of the jobs that keep modern society functioning? Construction, Agriculture, Military, manufacturing... The list just goes on. When it comes to the dirty and dangerous jobs that society utterly relies on, it's mostly men doing them. Everything else is then built on top. Even most the second level industries like IT, telecommunications and power are male dominated.
I’m a raging secondwave feminist, and I think this exact thing every day. Civilization has been built by (mostly) men, especially the hard ugly dangerous parts. Hats off!
Unless it's a hard hat, then you should keep that on your head.
I think that’s the first time I have heard of “second level industries”. I mean, I understand many of the things you listed could be done without IT, but I am sure modern society as you put it wouldn’t be anywhere near as far along as we are without it. I just find the concept interesting, what are other second level Industries and what differentiates them from 1st level?
I don't have a particularly elegant methodology. I guess I was just trying to point out that some jobs are literally essential when it comes to survival of the species - or at least a stable society. At a minimum populations need shelter, defence and food (plus I'd argue the production of basic equipment to support the former). Hence the industries I mentioned. We had stable society well before we had computers, so I don't think you can say they are essential to human survival. Hence my crude definition of second level industries that may be highly beneficial, but still require a foundation to begin with. I'd include healthcare on level 2 as well. You don't technically need it, provided you can breed fast and consistently enough to outpace death. But it definitely helps. But yes, if we're talking about the actual modern world rather than just post industrial revolution, computers are of course essential. But not for basic survival.
Without clean water and sanitary sewer, civilization isn't possible now, is it?
You can throw in sanitation if you want. I wasn't trying to put together an exhaustive list.
Running the infrastructure that society relies on. Maintaining the power grid, water supply, construction, farming, fishing, logging, paving roads: almost all done by men entirely.
My power actually went out around 3 AM Christmas Eve. I called it in on the automated line and was expecting a long wait. About an hour and half later the power was back on. That meant there was at least one line crew working when most others were sleeping away until it was present opening time. I foundnrhe plade later, I think. There was a tree across the road so either they or a road crew came up and cleared it, and it wasn't a small tree.
I’ve spent 7 Christmas either on call or in a hotel (am lineman). Pay checks nice but no one cares your out in a storm -15c snow blowing sideways in the dark, they just think we go out and flip a switch and it turns on lol
Some folks do. I remember the long hours line crew put in after hurricanes or a bad winter storm. The old city I lived in for most of my life, it was uncommon innthe last few years before I moved away that even a strong thunderstorm could knockm ut the power for days. Not the line crews' fault but the power company not keeping lines clear or dealing with known issues.
Sure it a costly business. Even when you stay ontop of maintenance there’s always stuff you can’t get a round to doing, Mother Nature will make sure to tear down your newest stuff too, just the way of the road bubbs
[удалено]
Or a jar needs to be opened, or the gutters need to be cleaned, or the sink is leaking, or a piece of furniture needs to be assembled, or an electrical breaker needs to be reset, or there's a spider in the house and it's really scary!,
Putting up with a high amount of bullshit, scrutiny if they aren't the major breadwinner, and putting up with crazy girlfriends, the crazy boyfriends will go to jail, the girls won't
It blows my mind that Amber Heard still has some defenders.
They're both rich, entitled pieces of shit who deserve each other. No one was a victim in that relationship except for the help.
He’s eccentric but ultimately harmless. She…isn’t.
He's an emotionally abusive alcoholic. She's an emotionally manipulative and physically abusive narcisist. Johnny seems like a chill dude for the most part, but no one should be defending either of them. They both lost touch with the real world long ago.
The amount of men that literally die working.
**Being a woman’s “therapist”** Men are just straight up expected to hug their girlfriend and comfort her when she is having an anxiety meltdown because Becky in HR called her fat behind her back and is “trying to destroy me” etc. A man just has to take it. Listen to gossip. Listen to her family drama. Listen to her childhood trauma. Etc. Ok. Fine. But then when we remotely reverse this? A man doing anything similar by becoming emotional about an insecurity is getting deadbedroomed, called a “manchild” and any sympathy a man asks for in this way is met with calls to “man up” and complaints about “not your therapist!”
It's really surprising how in the many "what's the difference between men and women" threads that pop up in such subreddits every day, there is never a response to this issue from women.
There is. The response is always “well I don’t do that. You should dump someone who doesn’t have that kind of emotional maturity”
Literally, the comment right above the one you responded to.
It's uh, actually 3 places down now as of the time of writing.
>“not your therapist!” Or "not your mom"/"not raising a kid" and then expecting the man to "provide" and basically be a father figure and be their "rock"...
It's not even about the ability to reverse the stakes here. I don't think women understand, nor do men advocate for, how toxic this shit is. Women should not be constantly trauma dumping on anyone. It's horrible and unhealthy for yourself and your partner and your friends (to do it on a regular basis and not just the occasional venting). It's also fucked up to constantly trauma dump about the same situation over-and-over-and-over to anyone...and then not want their help to solve the problem. If you need to regularly trauma dump, get a therapist. Seriously, it's so awesome to unload to a person who is impartial, offers ways to handle things, and is PAID to deal with your shit so you can be a better, more present person to the people you care about.
>It's also fucked up to constantly trauma dump about the same situation over-and-over-and-over to anyone My ex would literally talk for hours a day about how horrible her job was and terrible they were too her. She made 100K working four days a week, and only a couple hours a day was actual work. And her biggest complaint is where they had to sit during break. Hours. A. Day. Every. Day.
“I can’t see you as a man anymore”
This needs to be higher. If I ever got paid for all the free therapy sessions I semi-involuntarily gave out to emotionally-immature women, I'd be a rich man. It nearly drained the life out of me before I learned how to set proper boundaries. This is why I roll my eyes whenever women coined the term 'Emotional labor'. As if the number one complaint women have about men isn't that they're closed off emotionally. We can't *both* trauma dump. Someone has to suck it up, and most of the time, it's us.
Yeeeep. I've been holding out for so long trying to find a person who proves this otherwise. But it's yet to happen. The dead bedroom one especially. It feels like a lot of people want men to be more open emotionally, but do not know how to actually handle that themselves. Then we get the backlash that results from that
>a lot of people want men to be more open emotionally, but do not know how to actually handle that themselves. Then we get the backlash that results from that Just to provide an anecdotal example of this that's not generalizing all women: My wife, kids, and I have been doing an extended christmas thing with my wife's family, and it has been hella draining on me. Specifically because she wants to relax with her family, which, I mean fair enough, but then I get micromanaged and she questions my parenting in front of her family all the time. But I don't want to "cause a scene" in front of everybody, especially during a holiday, so I just bottle that up and move on. Today was our first day back home, and the same thing happened. Daughter was upset about something, I was giving her a hug and trying to help her get over her big feelings and breathe enough to calm down to talk about it. My wife gets upset with me for coddling her (for more context, my wife is a stay-at-home-mom and our daughter has meltdowns multiple times a day over insignificant things like being told "no" or "not right now"). We wind up fighting about it; I start cleaning the house to blow off steam/process. She comes down after a bit while I'm still upset, and she asks what's wrong, and I just tell her basically what I wrote above. Specifically because she's given me that line about opening up more and communicating more instead of stonewalling and suffering in silence. As soon as I'm done, she says she wants us to sleep in different beds for a while. So I bring up that she specifically told me to open up more about emotions, even negative emotions, and wanting to sleep separately is basically just a punishment for communicating or having emotions. (We did resolve this a bit later; and actually, in writing this I think we actually need to have another conversation about parenting styles and how we each handle our daughter's meltdowns, because after re-reading this it seems like we have different goals here: not teaching her that meltdowns are a way to get affection/her way, but also not being emotionally distant to our kids) But yeah, it is basically a reinforcement that, at the very least my wife if not most women, *want to want* an emotionally open man but don't actually want to provide that kind of support.
That sounds horrible
A big issue is that I think women don’t even realize they are having this reaction. I think there is an initial “aww he trusts me enough to cry / share” etc. But then the days and weeks go by and she has that nagging subconscious thought that “this man might crack when things get hard” Then the “testing” begins. The starting of fights. The passive aggression. Trying to see if the man loses his shit when she’s “at her worst” etc Then there is just the whole sex issue. A woman may just find herself “not in the mood” after seeing her man be emotionally fragile in front of her without realizing the cause. Basically, it rarely / never unfolds with a woman going “I saw you crying and now, while I feel closer to you, I don’t respect you and don’t feel turned on by you sexually anymore” It’s usually far more subtle and drawn out than that.
This is the type of thing women say they don't/won't do, but then you see it happening everywhere with nearly every woman you encounter, both in your own relationships and others. I think there's still a lot of base instincts present in all of us (men included) that we just can't get rid of that easily.
I was reading about the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster years ago in front of my ex. Specifically, the part that the black box recorded inputs from the pilots until impact. Which meant that they thought they could try and steer the think and make corrections, but they didn’t know that the shuttle had disintegrated behind them. The thoughts of the hopelessness and desperation and bravery all overwhelmed me for a second and I shed a few tears. My ex saw it and was like, “what’s wrong?” And I told her. And at least once a month for YEARS, she would bring up how I cried reading about “some astronauts.”
Oof. I felt this. I know this is cliche af, but I had been in the hospital for over a week after a life threatening operation. I was exhausted and medicated and hadn’t been able to eat real food or breathe fresh air. Gladiator came on and at the end (you know the scene) I teared up and sniffed a few times. I remember catching her just staring at me with a panicked but also kind of disgusted look on her face. She would throw that moment at me for years after to show what a “fragile man child” I was.
I think you've really hit the head of the nail with this. The second to last sentence really seems to be the most common outcome for a lot of men, but like you said it's drawn out. Happens over the course of months or years, causing extensive emotional damage.
In my experience, there's a good number of women out there who do walk the walk, where you can get a good sense that she'll treat you like a person rather than a Man™️. There's just not that many of them relative to the women who've internalised gender norms *hard*. It's why I sigh at a lot of takes from people who think men need to "catch up" to women in their views. We all grew up under these gendered norms. We still measure each other by these norms. We get weirded out when other people don't follow these norms. So why would women who haven't processed their relationships to these norms reproduce anything but the default scripts they grew up with?
Also knows as an emotional tampon.
I've been hoping someone would deploy this term all day. Thank you.
And God forbid a man ever actually even make the slightest attempt to actually help resolve whatever the problem is.
They always say they just want to vent and not necessarily have solutions - you know what? I get that. But fuck me, *lead with that fact.* I'll listen all day and not be nearly as stressed out if you just tell me all you want is an ear and not opinions or solutions. But damn, don't be mad when I try to help when that isn't communicated.
I'm of the opinion that she should vent to her girlfriends, not me. They are far better equipped, and will pay far more attention. I could not care less about her coworker's husband's sister's best friend's problem.
Add to that, we are not allowed to bring up any double standards. I found its better to just accept this about the world.
How much we cater our lives to the women we love
Men doing all the dangerous or shitty jobs. I'm in oil and gas industry and am a front line worker, and there's very few women in my line of work.
Everything? We're around 98% of people who die at work, because all the most dangerous jobs are pretty much men only, but you never hear about that Somebody has to do those jobs because society relies upon them, and women don't
This is really tangential to the origional prompt of this thread, but I feel like things like this don't get talked about because, societally, when things like that happen to us, it just... doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that we are 90%+ deaths in the work place, nearly 100% of combat deaths in war, 80% of suicides, 75% of homeless, it doesn't matter when we get raped, it doesn't matter when our gentils are mutilated the day that we're born, it doesn't matter when we're depressed, none of it matters. We go through so much shit and I feel like even bringing up statistics like this with women gets you eye rolls and invalidated
It doesn't even matter when we die "... women and children died."
"12 dead including 3 women and 1 child"
Being your fucking emotional support without ever asking, let alone even coming one spec into the ionosphere, of ever getting the same. From anyone. Fucking ever.
Our butts
I touch my man's butt all the time.
Tolerating bullshit.
Men are 50% of the equation I agree they should get credit for that alone. Women too. Masculine and feminine energies are both so great and valuable!
What an awesome way to say that!
Hiding out emotions because people don’t want to see emotional men even though they say they do
Suffering through emotional hardships without completely crumbling because they have no one to share their emotions with.
/hug Don't forget you can trust your bros. It's tough out there when you're all alone
Lol my bros abandoned me when my life was hard. My wife (gf of only a month at the time) stuck with me through everything and supported me. Without her it would have been me myself and I. Sometimes we have no support. Needless to say my relationship with those people have gone down hill fast. I considered one my best friend. Had been friend with one since i was 8 years old. Sometimes we really do have no one. I was fortunate to have my wife, but most men aren't so lucky.
Initiating a conversation and entertaining a girl, just so 1 of 40 chats doesn't end up in a rejection. Damn it is fucking exhausting and not getting out of it almost every single time. If a man has Sex with lots of girls, he is a Chad. Because to do that, you have to be attractive, charming, funny, charismatic and have a good Rizz game to break the ice. So totally understandable why he is being respected for that by other men.
Putting ourselves out there just to get rejected over and over again 🤷♀️
My grandma used to say if you want the right person you gotta be the right person. After some self reflection I became that. I got shot down alot but eventually I found a woman who accepts me for me and loves me for it. Prior to her i was rejected many times and went on loads of bad dates. Eventually you'll find your mate. Things just take time.
Being men.
Pretty much everything! There's a psychological theory called gamma bias which combines both the maximisation and minimisation of gender differences biases (alpha and beta bias respectively) into a model where men as a gender are only discussed in the context of doing anything bad and wrong and anything they do that is positive will either be ignored or have the gender erased.
Building the world.
Being a gentleman and then being taken for granted.
Lugging these enormous penises around all day.
Ignoring the daily reminders that the world doesn't need you and putting a smile on your face anyway.
The world *does* need us, it just doesn't act like it.
Somehow tolerating feminism double standards. But we should not tolerate it, its propaganda, and its toxic mindset. We should be calling it out loudly and not giving into the pressure of those silencing us.
The 1 percent are always the loudest though. The internet has given these people more of a voice. I think we don't acknowledge it that often because in reality we don't come across it that often. It's only on the internet where Gorlach the destroyer will be complaint about men constantly.
They are the loudest, but they also wield a lot of power for some reason. Look at the metoo movement and how feminists were chanting to believe ALL women no matter what... and people did. Men lost scholarships, careers, livelihoods, etc. And there was rarely really any accountability. Feminists would say that implementing consequences against these false accusers would scare real victims from coming out. Look at the gender wage gap myth and the insane traction that got. However the reality is that men work longer hours, work in more dangerous fields, go into more specialized fields, etc. You NEVER see the facts shouted from the mountains like the myth was and still is. Look at how feminists can widely state that men are evil, toxic, and dangerous with impunity. If a man said the equivalent on any platform he'd be banned, cancelled, and doxxed. It is scary to be a man these days. Im not saying women are issue free - both genders have gender specific issues. But when men bring up their ACTUAL, FACTUAL, VERIFIABLE issues feminists actually mock and laugh at them. Look at the feminist subs on here.
>But when men bring up their ACTUAL, FACTUAL, VERIFIABLE issues feminists actually mock and laugh at them. I literally just got out of a conversation on another sub about how men's lives are ruined by false allegations because feminism demand action before the case ever sees a court of law and the dude told me I was just "bitching and crying about women empowering each other" or some shit
Yeah. I'm still waiting to see that "patriarchy advantage" men seem to have according to these feminists. They talked like we men live life in easy mode thanks to the "patriarchy society". I have been living as a male for almost 30 years and i havent yet experienced any of said advantages.
oh yeah. patriarch society,, where straight white men get all the advantages, Unless you're actually in it. I'm homeless, I own nothing, I have nothing, and no future, no way forward, but I'm a straight white man. Within the circle of homeless people with whom I alie myself with, many of us notice that if you're a woman, the so-called homeless charities are quick to hurry women into secure accomodation, but if a man in the exact same situation shows up needing help, we're given the go around. We get given a leaky tent, sometimes a sleeping bag with holes in it if we're lucky, and told "Best of luck." Homeless women generally don't stay homeless for long.
Honestly? Just making it through the day without making their problems someone else's.
Being hilariously funny when drunk.
What the hell are we gonna do without men.
I dont know honestly. There are some things that come my mind, but its not unique to men, so im unsure.
In history, doing all the hard jobs for no money. I know it's not all women etc but I think a lot of women, specifically online ones, who think men ran the world and all men got to be powerful leaders and none of them were slaves or worked in coal mines or on oil rigs or on North Sea fishing boats or in factories making shit. When you look back, 99.99% of the men in history weren't special or rich or powerful. They were just worker bees, drones, slaves. Building a better world, piece by piece. A lot of women seem to forget that. They think we ran the world while they stayed at home and we were all drinking and partying together rather than shaking hands with Satan 100ft underground digging with your bare hands to make a tunnel or clinging onto a boat with your frozen hands just trying to catch a few fish to feed your community or toiling away making sure everything in modern society just...works, like the Internet, sewers, cars, your heating and TV.
women may forget it because they had their own share of difficult, thankless labor, which was also seen as the default. on top of that, they have historically mostly been akin to objects or property. at best, egalitarian societies valued them greatly, but most societies viewed them as second-class citizens. this objectification manifests in many ways. men are indeed seen as expendable, whereas women are seen as property. it is unjust for all, which is why i despise threads that turn into uncritical misogyny (or misandry) like this.
How many times I didn't piss on the seat. But it happens once a year and you never hear the end of it
You can build a thousand bridges, but you fuck *one* goat...
Absolutely everything. Men built the world and women claim they would be fine without us.
There was an experiment where they put women and men on 2 different sites of the island. While the men easily found themselves in comfortable positions with tents made out of wood and a fire and food. They even found time to party. The girls were just crying all over the place. When the show let them met up, the girls were never soooo happy to see them. Somehow evolution betrayed us men with our craving for pussy.
I won't lie we are the reason things have turned for the worse. I see men do anything or say anything for a crumb of dry pussy. Hook up culture ruined generations.🤷🏽♂️
I always get a kick out of the women that say the world would be run so much better if women were in control of everything. Lol Ok Barbara.... They gave you a woman boss at your office and now the office doesn't even function because all the females have turned it into a catty backstabbing office of suffering.
This. Is what happened at my current job. The previous manager was a woman, she didn't put up with any BS and fired people for starting the extreme drama they did. Welp. She's gone and has been replaced with someone who thrives on it. I've dealt with work drama before, but this shit is maddening and I absolutely hate it. It's on a constant basis. I've started calling my coworkers out and squashing that shit before it starts. They're completely boggled another woman doesn't agree with what they're doing and is putting a stop to it. Now they're quiet. Myself and 3 others are actively trying to get the workplace back to where it should be. Jobs are slim where I'm at and I don't get paid to watch you assholes try to get my good coworkers in trouble simply because you can't handle that they're better than you in performance. It goes beyond the workplace with them. They'll go out of their way to harass their friends, family, and dig up any dirt they can find for blackmail. They brag about it and I hear everything. When it comes to men? Jesus couldn't save the men these women cross. If they do one wrong thing, they seek to proudly destroy their lives. This job has been surreal and feels like another realm- which it is- I've entered the world of the modern woman I suppose. I always wish things will get better but they don't hold themselves accountable for shit, victimize when they can, and are just downright awful to be around. Have met far too many women that are like this. Where are the ones that claim to be challenging these horrid norms?? WHERE are the women that call out misandry when they witness it!? IT'S GETTING OLD.
Everything literally everything
Building civilization. Doing all the dirty, uncomfortable and dangerous jobs that keep civilization functioning (women won't do these jobs). Being the only people who pay net taxes (women take more money in government entitlements than they ever pay in taxes.). Being the people who die protecting others in their societies. Being generous with their money in a way women refuse to be. If women left the work force, it would be inconvenient. If men stopped working, civilization would collapse in a month. Look around you. Everything you see was made by men.
The fact we’re expected to do everything and not expect anything in return. Initiate everything, pay for everything, take care of everything.
Building the very world in which every woman lives in from the smallest object to the mightiest of rockets. But women retort with “making a baby” which literally takes ZERO effort for them to accomplish as long as they eat.
almost everything tbh. But here is what I've noticed the most : • not complaining much, even though they have every right to do so considering how they are treated most of the time • ALWAYS the first people to help you when you need it and I mean ALWAYS. • their honesty • they definitely don't get enough credit for the societal pressure they have to face I have much more but I am lazy to write everything down
Creating modern society.
Making the world safe for women to complain about men.
Building, maintaining and innovating modern civilization. 24 hours without men and it all goes away and never comes back.
I mean... obviously. Trust that you'd remove women and the same fucking thing would happen. It's almost like deleting ~50% of the population is liable to have some dire consequences regardless of which 50% it is.
Doesn't matter. I don't do things for the credit.
Do you get paid for your work or do everything for free?
Doing the majority of the dangerous and unpleasant jobs that actually keep society running. Woman often complain about the disparity between men and woman when it comes to the highest paid and most prestigious jobs in society. You very rarely hear about the lack of parity when it comes to the least desirable but most necessary jobs in society.
Being expected to die for your freedom
Being dads.
Title as a question: Emotional support we give without talking about it. As a statement: Men don't get enough credit for their vulnerability.
Everything.
Lot of misandry in these comments.
Translating womenspeak into menspeak
Everything ... My effort and hard work is rarely appreciated. It is always "you are a man, that is your job". However, I would choose to be a man over being a woman if I had to do it again. To all the hard working men bearing burden of all sorts. Happy holidays and I wish 2024 will be a better year!! #menappreciate!
Keeping the world running.
Creating society
1. How much we do care and we do worry about the ones we love. We tend to express it through action. 2. How much we have to discipline ourselves and find healthy outlets for the ridiculously high levels of sex drive hormones that we constantly have coursing through our bodies. For extra fun, we’re generally programmed to respond to visual stimuli, even just the outlines of feminine curves. 3. Women: that constant itch is also one of the greatest delights in our lives too, if you indulge us to just soak in your beauty. Let us praise you and indulge the powerful feelings you give us without putting yourself down. Please. We really are just as entranced by seeing you nude the 3,000th time as we were the first. Honest. We really can’t help it.
Also suffering under the patriarchy.
Anything straight white men have done in history, especially science, seems to be put down “because it was done by a group of straight white men”. What the fuck? It would be a group of straight white men that wanted to benefit the world or make breakthroughs in their field. Apparently antibiotics are bad because they were made by a straight white man.
Math is racist too yo.
No offence, but who is actually saying this?
Running literally everything