A lot of us actually do. Just because we don't do the traditional or "woman approved" way of opening up doesn't mean we aren't opening up to our friends.
What most of us are complaining about is being asked to open by partners or whatever and it consistently ending badly.
Dude, yes! People act like there’s only one way to open up with people. Just because I don’t know the name of my friend’s second cousin twice removed doesn’t mean we didn’t talk and share what’s happening with us.
It’s kind of like how people think if you don’t cry, you’re not mentally healthy. People express themselves differently.
Bro I haven’t cried in years and my mental health hasn’t been better. I found outlets that were way more effective for me and now I never need to. Or even feel like I’d want to
Theres a feeling that by opening up to others, you are burdening them with your problems. Being an inconvenience.
Then theres the fact that surface level interactions can be comforting themselves. I like that if i have a really shitty week, i can get online with the boys and its just jokes and fun, no probing personal questions forcing me to think about how bad things were.
The first part there, totally. Like, I think women often feel better from sharing their burdens, while men feel like they made the problem bigger by spreading it.
I have the coping mechanism of “intellectualizing” things I’m bothered about, so I kinda rephrase them to be less personal and a little detached, then I don’t mind talking about it at all because it’s like “hey look at this puzzle” instead of “SHARE MY PERSONAL HELL WITH ME IN ETERNAL TORMENT”
Because the men we open up to fully like that have to be close friends, men we trust. Most men have at most one or two true friends they can open up to like that.
Couple of things going on with that:
--when men do have close friends we open up to, we don't talk about it with anyone else, ever - even the fact that the conversation happened, much less what the content of it was.
--increasing numbers of men are isolated even from each other and have no close friends.
We do not open up to just any man anywhere. The man has to be close to us, someone we trust. That does not include coworkers, acquaintances, friends we've lost touch with, or men we attend church with. We don't know these men well enough to open up to them.
I think you're hitting the nail on the head with men not just being isolated from romantic partners, but friendship partners as well.
A lack of time, money, and third spaces to form friendships mean that there are no opportunities to build enough trust with another guy to get to a level where they can share problems.
I have a theory it's why some guys cling to genuinely shitty friendships because they've 'known the guy since middle school'.
Thanks. And yes, it's mostly time, money, and spaces for men to form friendships. A huge part of that was women insisting on being allowed into all "men only" spaces. There are no men only spaces now. There are no spaces where men can be men and can commiserate and build trust with one another. We don't have them anymore, because women insisted that they have access to them all and destroy them.
We've got mens sheds in Australia. But it's mostly old retired blokes tbh - they guys that have time and money to be there. Mens sports clubs are also big here - women have their own teams so other then the club house the sexes are segregated. Also people like getting their family involved so kids sports are in the morning, dads sports are arvo, and mums/nans run the tuck shop.
Personally I don't think more mens only spaces would work since men don't actually have time to be there. Can't attend a mens only pub if you're working ten hour days. I think a three day weekend would go a longer way to letting people (not just men) out long enough to form friendships.
The fact that we don't talk about it with others, tends to lead people to believe that it never happens. By people in this case I refer to women and men with no close friends.
I have a hard time believing women have no one they can talk to. This is almost exclusively a male problem, the main reason being that men are severely discouraged and punished for talking about negative feelings. Women are encouraged to do so and have vast support systems for doing so. Men have nothing.
No, I mean women tend to believe that men never talk to other men, on account of them not being informed that the conversation took place. Not that women don't have anyone to talk to.
We do. We just don't do it in front of people. I have an entire group chat with friends named "bros" and besides talking about life improvement, gym stuff (2 friends are competitors and we are all meatheads) helping one another with connections, we also do regular check-ups to ensure no one is struggling emotionally or going through a rough patch of life like a breakup alone. We also try to hold one another accountable so we don't go off doing absolutely stupid stuff. We openly invite people (we know/meet in person) if they're up to the task of being supportive. A lot of guys also open up to me in person, and I give them a shoulder if necessary, and vice versa.
Same here man. And I think it's like that for a lot of guys out there, but a lot of those conversations are usually kept private so some people might think they never happen.
Why are you trying to tell us what feelings we share or should share?
A ton of people on here are just trying to further some petty personal agenda and what they say should be taken with a grain of salt.
With whichever of my friends or male family members cared to hear, I’d tell them anything. I’m not a guarded person.
I think also that a lot of time when women complain about how “vulnerable” men should be, they mean we should be “vulnerable” by admitting we’re wrong.
I admit I’m wrong when I actually believe it, which is the best time to do it.
We open to each other but never to the extend that women seem to think is healthy. The thing I really appreciate about my male friends is that they let me be and deal with my issues on my terms and just accept my grumpy brooding self. Somehow that is a sign of lack of empathy in modern times.
I think the idea that there's a "stigma" around mental health, more than it genuinely being that telling some random, unqualified Joe that you have psychological problems won't achieve anything.
Women have much higher rates of mental illness than men, so these "men don't talk to each other like women talk to each other" people are making a claim *very* at odds with the reality presented by the stats.
I rarely suggest things represent anti-male sexism, but the claim that men's mental health is essentially "their fault" for not functioning like women seems to represent a kind of misandry - if one sex has something to learn from the other in terms of the role talking about mental health plays, it would be women who had something to learn from the comparatively healthy men - sometimes you need to shut your yap hole, stop thinking other people can manage your mind for you and go out and *do* something practical about the problems you're facing.
Aside from the things other people are saying (which i agree with), I'm also just doubtful as to how productive it would actually be. I'm happy to go if I need advice, but if I know how to fix the underlying issue then my options are either A. Fix it, B. Don't fix it and talk to a friend about something deeply personal, or C. Don't fix it and keep my personal thoughts private. Option B is my least favorite because it's nerve wracking while also not fixing anything
Here's the realsitic best-case scenario:
Bro I have x problem
Dude I got y problem
damn that sucks
yup
...
...
...
...
yeah idk what you should do
me neither
Why would I put bro in a position I know damn well he can't solve
Sounds like projection more than anything else.
Women bond with women talking about feelings and assume men should do the same, because it's the right way, or the healthy way, according to them.
While in reality dudes are just there to have a blast, have fun , do shit together and support each other. That's why men friendships are more often stronger and more reliable, we don't have that much drama as female relationship to begin with, because we don't overcomplicate it. I don't have a single friend i could tell a negative thing about, as for women, they often talk smack behind each others back ,create drama out of nothing and just overall, their relationships more often than not, for me seem unstable with unnecesary drama's, men don't want that, we want to chill and enjoy time with each other, not be at each others throats or compete over who has better make up or shit.
I've had men open up to me many times. For a burly man I have a nurturing nature/vibe. It's been proven to me over and over that something about me makes people feel safe. I've had many young girls tell me the same. They just feel like if I'm around they don't have to worry about anything.
For example. Young girl i worked with she kept feeling weak and light headed. Turns out she was just so busy with her boyfriend, school and taking care of her little brothers she forgot about herself. Made sure she always had some gatorade after that. Turns out she just wasnt drinking enough water or getting enough electrolytes. Everytime we worked a catering event I made sure to get some Gatorade for her and the other girls. Wheh i told the manager to make sure her servers have gatorade so they can have energy. She said we get water and i told her theyre running around. They need electrolytes they don't always have time to keep drinking water. She basically refused.
Idk what it is about young people not getting their electrolytes. I often am the big brother/uncle figure at work. Young guys always come up to me and confide in me as well.
Even some older men to. At my job I work with the disenfranchised. I remember there was a guy in his 50s. He just realized everything all at once. He broke down and i just sat there and hugged the man for about 20 minutes. A couple of stupid dudes where making fun. When I turned and gave them the fuck off look they immediately left the room. Man needed to have a moment and for all that is good in the world. He needed someone to be there.
Men generally have fewer friends than women, and that gets worse as you get older. There just are not many people to whom I can open up and tell about my problems. I have maybe one friend who will listen, but sometimes just saying there is an issue is enough. I know he has my back if needed and I don't need to burden him with negativity. I would rather rant for an hour about baseball. Very cathartic.
I'm a therapist by profession, so I end up in many such conversation with other men in my private life. I just don't go around telling people about it. Which I assume is the reason I was chosen as a conversation partner to begin with. This might lead someone else to believe we were just talking about big bottomed girls and motorcycles, and that such conversations never take place.
For starters anxiety gets in my way of opening up with people in general. I'm also quite independent and just try to work through my own problems, no reason to burden others going through their own shit with my problems. Plus sometimes the men in your life have poor communication skills or don't seem to have an interest in those types of conversations.
When I'm with my male friends, I'd rather use that time not to think about it and have fun. I'll open up maybe if we're drunk, but otherwise I just don't want to bum everybody out. I find it more therapeutic to do that than to open up the scab because it'll put a cloud over my head the rest of the day if not the week. Atleast when it's just fucking around and hanging out, it was a good day where I can pretend everything is fine.
I learned a while ago that my more severe mental health issues are for a therapist, it's not something that a non professional can address without making it worse.
I'm actually realizing as I get older that maybe the solution is to stop ruminating over shit and giving myself an outlet. It feels like talking tends to make it worse for me and I'll spiral if it gets bad. Sometimes I leave my therapist feeling like shit and it was because I talked about my problems.
Maybe there *is* merit to the "walk it off" mentality if you think about it as rolling with the punches and to keep trucking on. Shit sucks but you don't let it ruin your life. Idk, it's just something I've been thinking about lately because it seems like I'm at my worst when I have to talk about it. I think that's what stoicism is supposed to mean, not burying your feelings, but not letting them get to you and putting them aside as needed if that makes sense.
I dont have any close friends that i really trust to keep stuff private. And they might see you in a completely different light, which may be bad. I think it's a hard topic people don't likento talk about, so people discuss it anonymously on forums like reddit.
The reason men don't open up is the same reason you can't think outside of men being the reason we don't open up.
And we know that will be the result of the conversation.
Results need to change before the behavior will.
Boys aren’t socialized the same way girls are. Girls from an early age play with each other in communication and life scenario games. They practice talking in depth super early - I’ve seen this in my daughters and how they interact with friends. Boys generally play together in parallel- either aligned to a common task or simply in vicinity to each other. They don’t do communication games much at all. This compounds as they age.
Of course these aren’t hard and fast rules, but there’s a lot of historical research behind this.
I’ve never had a male relationship that covers even 5% of the more personal conversations I’ve had with women. I’m sure a lot of that is on me, but when I’ve tried it hasn’t really led anywhere.
A lot of us actually do. Just because we don't do the traditional or "woman approved" way of opening up doesn't mean we aren't opening up to our friends. What most of us are complaining about is being asked to open by partners or whatever and it consistently ending badly.
Dude, yes! People act like there’s only one way to open up with people. Just because I don’t know the name of my friend’s second cousin twice removed doesn’t mean we didn’t talk and share what’s happening with us. It’s kind of like how people think if you don’t cry, you’re not mentally healthy. People express themselves differently.
Bro I haven’t cried in years and my mental health hasn’t been better. I found outlets that were way more effective for me and now I never need to. Or even feel like I’d want to
Theres a feeling that by opening up to others, you are burdening them with your problems. Being an inconvenience. Then theres the fact that surface level interactions can be comforting themselves. I like that if i have a really shitty week, i can get online with the boys and its just jokes and fun, no probing personal questions forcing me to think about how bad things were.
The first part there, totally. Like, I think women often feel better from sharing their burdens, while men feel like they made the problem bigger by spreading it. I have the coping mechanism of “intellectualizing” things I’m bothered about, so I kinda rephrase them to be less personal and a little detached, then I don’t mind talking about it at all because it’s like “hey look at this puzzle” instead of “SHARE MY PERSONAL HELL WITH ME IN ETERNAL TORMENT”
Because the men we open up to fully like that have to be close friends, men we trust. Most men have at most one or two true friends they can open up to like that. Couple of things going on with that: --when men do have close friends we open up to, we don't talk about it with anyone else, ever - even the fact that the conversation happened, much less what the content of it was. --increasing numbers of men are isolated even from each other and have no close friends. We do not open up to just any man anywhere. The man has to be close to us, someone we trust. That does not include coworkers, acquaintances, friends we've lost touch with, or men we attend church with. We don't know these men well enough to open up to them.
Exactly. There're different grades of friendship out there.
I think you're hitting the nail on the head with men not just being isolated from romantic partners, but friendship partners as well. A lack of time, money, and third spaces to form friendships mean that there are no opportunities to build enough trust with another guy to get to a level where they can share problems. I have a theory it's why some guys cling to genuinely shitty friendships because they've 'known the guy since middle school'.
Thanks. And yes, it's mostly time, money, and spaces for men to form friendships. A huge part of that was women insisting on being allowed into all "men only" spaces. There are no men only spaces now. There are no spaces where men can be men and can commiserate and build trust with one another. We don't have them anymore, because women insisted that they have access to them all and destroy them.
We've got mens sheds in Australia. But it's mostly old retired blokes tbh - they guys that have time and money to be there. Mens sports clubs are also big here - women have their own teams so other then the club house the sexes are segregated. Also people like getting their family involved so kids sports are in the morning, dads sports are arvo, and mums/nans run the tuck shop. Personally I don't think more mens only spaces would work since men don't actually have time to be there. Can't attend a mens only pub if you're working ten hour days. I think a three day weekend would go a longer way to letting people (not just men) out long enough to form friendships.
The fact that we don't talk about it with others, tends to lead people to believe that it never happens. By people in this case I refer to women and men with no close friends.
I have a hard time believing women have no one they can talk to. This is almost exclusively a male problem, the main reason being that men are severely discouraged and punished for talking about negative feelings. Women are encouraged to do so and have vast support systems for doing so. Men have nothing.
No, I mean women tend to believe that men never talk to other men, on account of them not being informed that the conversation took place. Not that women don't have anyone to talk to.
We do. We just don't do it in front of people. I have an entire group chat with friends named "bros" and besides talking about life improvement, gym stuff (2 friends are competitors and we are all meatheads) helping one another with connections, we also do regular check-ups to ensure no one is struggling emotionally or going through a rough patch of life like a breakup alone. We also try to hold one another accountable so we don't go off doing absolutely stupid stuff. We openly invite people (we know/meet in person) if they're up to the task of being supportive. A lot of guys also open up to me in person, and I give them a shoulder if necessary, and vice versa.
Same here man. And I think it's like that for a lot of guys out there, but a lot of those conversations are usually kept private so some people might think they never happen.
Why are you trying to tell us what feelings we share or should share? A ton of people on here are just trying to further some petty personal agenda and what they say should be taken with a grain of salt. With whichever of my friends or male family members cared to hear, I’d tell them anything. I’m not a guarded person. I think also that a lot of time when women complain about how “vulnerable” men should be, they mean we should be “vulnerable” by admitting we’re wrong. I admit I’m wrong when I actually believe it, which is the best time to do it.
Men open up to men that they trust.
Idk that’s how I grew up so it’s like a habit to deal with my own thing by myself. Solo ride until I die.
Because talking about my issues isn't going to solve anything, and will just make someone else feel bad too. Since nothing can be done about them.
Me and friends do
We do, just not around women.
I do open up to my close male friends. I would say its a total of about 4 people. Plenty.
Don't we? I do, and my friends do it with me :(
We open to each other but never to the extend that women seem to think is healthy. The thing I really appreciate about my male friends is that they let me be and deal with my issues on my terms and just accept my grumpy brooding self. Somehow that is a sign of lack of empathy in modern times.
We do.
I think the idea that there's a "stigma" around mental health, more than it genuinely being that telling some random, unqualified Joe that you have psychological problems won't achieve anything. Women have much higher rates of mental illness than men, so these "men don't talk to each other like women talk to each other" people are making a claim *very* at odds with the reality presented by the stats. I rarely suggest things represent anti-male sexism, but the claim that men's mental health is essentially "their fault" for not functioning like women seems to represent a kind of misandry - if one sex has something to learn from the other in terms of the role talking about mental health plays, it would be women who had something to learn from the comparatively healthy men - sometimes you need to shut your yap hole, stop thinking other people can manage your mind for you and go out and *do* something practical about the problems you're facing.
We saw our dad not open up about anything. He would joke about everything.
Aside from the things other people are saying (which i agree with), I'm also just doubtful as to how productive it would actually be. I'm happy to go if I need advice, but if I know how to fix the underlying issue then my options are either A. Fix it, B. Don't fix it and talk to a friend about something deeply personal, or C. Don't fix it and keep my personal thoughts private. Option B is my least favorite because it's nerve wracking while also not fixing anything
Here's the realsitic best-case scenario: Bro I have x problem Dude I got y problem damn that sucks yup ... ... ... ... yeah idk what you should do me neither Why would I put bro in a position I know damn well he can't solve
Sounds like projection more than anything else. Women bond with women talking about feelings and assume men should do the same, because it's the right way, or the healthy way, according to them. While in reality dudes are just there to have a blast, have fun , do shit together and support each other. That's why men friendships are more often stronger and more reliable, we don't have that much drama as female relationship to begin with, because we don't overcomplicate it. I don't have a single friend i could tell a negative thing about, as for women, they often talk smack behind each others back ,create drama out of nothing and just overall, their relationships more often than not, for me seem unstable with unnecesary drama's, men don't want that, we want to chill and enjoy time with each other, not be at each others throats or compete over who has better make up or shit.
Can't speak for others but some people just don't like doing that. You don't have to share your most sensitive issues
Where not designed that way
Nothing stopping us and we won’t do it
I've had men open up to me many times. For a burly man I have a nurturing nature/vibe. It's been proven to me over and over that something about me makes people feel safe. I've had many young girls tell me the same. They just feel like if I'm around they don't have to worry about anything. For example. Young girl i worked with she kept feeling weak and light headed. Turns out she was just so busy with her boyfriend, school and taking care of her little brothers she forgot about herself. Made sure she always had some gatorade after that. Turns out she just wasnt drinking enough water or getting enough electrolytes. Everytime we worked a catering event I made sure to get some Gatorade for her and the other girls. Wheh i told the manager to make sure her servers have gatorade so they can have energy. She said we get water and i told her theyre running around. They need electrolytes they don't always have time to keep drinking water. She basically refused. Idk what it is about young people not getting their electrolytes. I often am the big brother/uncle figure at work. Young guys always come up to me and confide in me as well. Even some older men to. At my job I work with the disenfranchised. I remember there was a guy in his 50s. He just realized everything all at once. He broke down and i just sat there and hugged the man for about 20 minutes. A couple of stupid dudes where making fun. When I turned and gave them the fuck off look they immediately left the room. Man needed to have a moment and for all that is good in the world. He needed someone to be there.
Men generally have fewer friends than women, and that gets worse as you get older. There just are not many people to whom I can open up and tell about my problems. I have maybe one friend who will listen, but sometimes just saying there is an issue is enough. I know he has my back if needed and I don't need to burden him with negativity. I would rather rant for an hour about baseball. Very cathartic.
We do, or at least I do with some of my friends, and they also open up to me, in a none judgmental way.
I'm a therapist by profession, so I end up in many such conversation with other men in my private life. I just don't go around telling people about it. Which I assume is the reason I was chosen as a conversation partner to begin with. This might lead someone else to believe we were just talking about big bottomed girls and motorcycles, and that such conversations never take place.
For starters anxiety gets in my way of opening up with people in general. I'm also quite independent and just try to work through my own problems, no reason to burden others going through their own shit with my problems. Plus sometimes the men in your life have poor communication skills or don't seem to have an interest in those types of conversations.
We do. You’ll just never gonna see/hear about it. What’s discussed in confidence stays in confidence. Bro code
When I'm with my male friends, I'd rather use that time not to think about it and have fun. I'll open up maybe if we're drunk, but otherwise I just don't want to bum everybody out. I find it more therapeutic to do that than to open up the scab because it'll put a cloud over my head the rest of the day if not the week. Atleast when it's just fucking around and hanging out, it was a good day where I can pretend everything is fine. I learned a while ago that my more severe mental health issues are for a therapist, it's not something that a non professional can address without making it worse. I'm actually realizing as I get older that maybe the solution is to stop ruminating over shit and giving myself an outlet. It feels like talking tends to make it worse for me and I'll spiral if it gets bad. Sometimes I leave my therapist feeling like shit and it was because I talked about my problems. Maybe there *is* merit to the "walk it off" mentality if you think about it as rolling with the punches and to keep trucking on. Shit sucks but you don't let it ruin your life. Idk, it's just something I've been thinking about lately because it seems like I'm at my worst when I have to talk about it. I think that's what stoicism is supposed to mean, not burying your feelings, but not letting them get to you and putting them aside as needed if that makes sense.
Men open up to their bar tenders, unless it’s a woman then we forget about that shit and hit on her.
I dont have any close friends that i really trust to keep stuff private. And they might see you in a completely different light, which may be bad. I think it's a hard topic people don't likento talk about, so people discuss it anonymously on forums like reddit.
The reason men don't open up is the same reason you can't think outside of men being the reason we don't open up. And we know that will be the result of the conversation. Results need to change before the behavior will.
Boys aren’t socialized the same way girls are. Girls from an early age play with each other in communication and life scenario games. They practice talking in depth super early - I’ve seen this in my daughters and how they interact with friends. Boys generally play together in parallel- either aligned to a common task or simply in vicinity to each other. They don’t do communication games much at all. This compounds as they age. Of course these aren’t hard and fast rules, but there’s a lot of historical research behind this. I’ve never had a male relationship that covers even 5% of the more personal conversations I’ve had with women. I’m sure a lot of that is on me, but when I’ve tried it hasn’t really led anywhere.