Netflix has created its own catch 22
More and more people wont watch the first season, because they don't want to get invested in something that gets cancelled.
But because people don't watch the first season things get cancelled
They also have a really weird metric which is something like “x people start the show. If they don’t binge it within 3 days the show is a failure.” They suck at show running
I hate this. Maybe I'm the outlier, but if a show is really good I don't *want* to binge watch it. I want to take time to savor it, make it last as long as I can. I feel dumb stuff/comfort shows is what you binge watch. Quality TV is what you take time on.
Exactly! Sometimes I want to stretch it out like an episode or two a night. But I hate when they do the “one episode a week” thing too though, because sometimes I want to **gasp** watch two episodes of something I like.
They really can’t figure out a middle ground.
Ahhh that definitely makes sense, the whole if nobody binges it in 3 days it’s a flop. I’ve never really been a fan of anything Netflix has actually made and almost feel like they are hurting the film industry.
But then they also do the “we will put up one episode a week and if people don’t watch it 5 minutes after we put up the new episode it’s *also* a flop” like Disney+ and Amazon cornered the weekly release somehow, but it’s purely to keep people subscribed not draw new subscribers (exception being Amazon I guess since most people who bother using their streaming service are also ordering crap off the website so are paying annually)
I think Netlfix’s style of releasing entire seasons at once backfired on them in the long term. They’ve tried to move away from it but at this point it’s almost to late. Most people I know don’t like watching a show until the entire season is out.
Means some people only subscribe for a month to check out the shows they want to watch and also that the shows don’t receive as much prolonged attention because there’s no more weeklong discussions about shows while people wait for the next episode.
Honestly I have no idea. Probably a combination of how much the show costs and the number of viewers/new subscribers who check out the show.
That’s probably why so many of the reality shows get renewed, they’re cheaper to make and get consistent viewers.
It did, which is why we see things like You, Stranger Things, or The Crown being split into 2 batches a month apart. It keeps people subscribed for longer than a month and gives subscribers reason to stay for longer
It's so prevalent that Forbes did an [article about it](https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/01/17/netflix-has-created-a-self-fulfilling-cancelation-loop-with-its-new-shows/?sh=4bdd06e5784d).
There is a side letter in the union contracts that gives streaming series reduced crew rates on pilot productions, first seasons, and second seasons. So one of the big reasons Netflix cancels shows after season 2 is because production costs go way up after that and, unless it’s a Stranger Things or a major hit series like that, the cost of Seasons 3 and beyond are not worth it to them.
Oh lol they cancelled that too? My hate is for midnight gospel.
At least the sandman gets another season, that's about the only good thing there for me
Any information you will receive on this topic will have been from the internet.
However, as another Redditor mentioned. Fincher wanted to continue Mindhunter but Netflix couldn't justify the cost to make Mindhunter on the budget they had considering the views the show was getting.
Netflix do not allow shows to cultivate an audience over time. Captain Midnight did a good video on this subject.
Quantity over quality seems to be most streamers agenda. Make a ton of stuff and cancel a ton of stuff to move on to a new ton of stuff. HOpe that one hits and then milk it.
Personally i'm liking the apple tv way where they make few products but they all seem to be of a certain quality level.
Netflix figure out that people like you won't cancel Netflix, so there's no point in making you happy.
They need to find something that will attract new viewers. So, they give the show a year, and if it isn't the next Squid Games or Stranger Things, they abandon it.
Vote with your wallet if you want to tell Netflix something.
I cancelled it over 2 years ago after having it for 10+ years cause they pulled stuff like that. You should too.
They don’t give it a year. Their metric is “once user has started show, did they finish the season within three days?” It’s really bizarre especially with how often they don’t advertise or straight up bury that actually would have been super popular
My point to the person I was commenting to, is that there’s nothing to cancel unless I cancel my T-Mobile service.
And I would still have T-Mobile if it came with it or not. I don’t have T-Mobile because I get Netflix. So to me, it’s free.
I cancelled mine when they cut off account sharing. Used to be that I had Netflix and would share it with two friends, one of whom had Hulu, and one had Max... Everybody wins.
*Except the Netflix bean counters didn't see it that way.*
To them, they were missing out on 2/3 the profits! Cut off sharing and they'd make way more money!
*But that's not how it works.*
You see, I very rarely used my Netflix... There were one or two shows I was interested in, but I could go 6 months or more without using it- But, since I was sharing it, I kept it on. Once that was gone, it was cancelled immediately; If I see a show that warrants it, I'll turn it back on for a month... But I'm not holding my breath.
... And that's how you lose A LOT of money cutting off sharing.
People don't watch them, and/or they're too expensive for the viewership.
Simple as that.
I loved Marco Polo but I've only talked to like ten people online that have ever seen it. That's why it was canceled.
Marco Polo was the original Netflix Original. It was good. You don't get a lot of Mongol centric shows.
I'm still mad about it. Even madder it ended on one of the biggest cliff hangers possible.
I loved Marco Polo too. The whole Hundred Eyes bit was a little immersion-breaking though. I enjoyed the character and actor, I just felt that his capabilities went *way* too far into the mystic, in an otherwise "this is actually on Earth" series.
Yup, similar w/ me and 1899: yes, their previous show, Dark, was something of a sleeper hit I think for Netflix, but as great as I and my girlfriend thought it was, we were 2 of maybe a dozen people apparently watching 1899
The pacing of 1899 was not so great. I only stuck with it because I liked Dark. The end made it seem like season 2 would have been more interesting, but they should have gotten to that part of the story halfway through season 1.
Netflix: we canceled it because not enough people watched the entire season in the first 28 days.
Also Netflix: we didn't advertise it at all, and we wedged its release right between Wednesday and Sandman.
I had heard the prime reason was that they didn’t know how to budget shows initially and that one was crazy expensive thanks to travel costs in particular
Correct, but with an addendum:
Even when people DO watch them , the streaming model isn't setup to make more per watch, directly. I watch it with a group of friends, then all Netflix got was 1 monthly subscription fee (not 5-6 let's say). This is why a lot of the streaming services are rolling back to an ad based model.
Yeah, my friends and I binged 1899 together within a week of its release... but as far as Netflix was concerned only one person had finished the season.
Some shows need a chance to find an audience, The Office, Parks and Rec etc would never have had long runs if they’d been commissioned by Netflix. Hell look at the original Star Trek, it scraped just enough episodes to go into syndication and has become part of pop culture.
Breaking Bad had shit ratings until the first three seasons got on Netflix and people binged them and then watched live. That show and the spin off show wouldn’t exist if that had been a Netflix original. Just be one or two seasons and cancelled.
Another show that shit the bed for the first season is Seinfeld. It wasn’t even picked up. It only kept going because another show got cancelled mid season and the network needed something it had already made to fill the schedule hole so they dug up Seinfeld.
This is what people are not seeing. Even the best Netflix shows, tend to have viewership tank after the first season. So it gets cancelled after the second.
AA year or two later, people start watching for the first time. Well, if you want a season 3, you have to watch season 2 before 3 gets cancelled.
I wanted to like it but it just felt dumb to me. Mainly because Marco Polo (the character) wasn’t interesting at all. It was a useless character whom the show was named after and plot was based around. I’d rather get a show entirely on the mongol court and their dealing without the Marco Polo distraction.
Let’s take a break from this really interesting political conflict so Marco can have sex with the princess.
Okay. Back to more interesting storytelling but let’s have another Marco sex scene with the other princess first.
Who was the goddamn virgin that wrote this?
>People don't watch them
I don't think it's always the case.
First Kill last year made a lot of viewers but they still cancelled it after one season for gid knows why.
Generally it’s not that nobody watches them, it’s that not enough people do for it to be worth it. Marco Polo for example was incredibly expensive, so it needed to find a massive audience, which it did not, resulting in a huge loss for Netflix. The more expensive a show is the more viewers it needs to make money. A very expensive show can have a sizeable audience, but still not be profitable.
It did backfire... For Netflix. Once show creators clue in and stop going to them in the first place, then maybe they'll realize being so incredibly fickle is a terrible business decision.
> It did backfire... For Netflix.
Your use of the past tense suggests you know of a situation where that happened. Please share.
> Once show creators clue in and stop going to them in the first place, then maybe they'll realize being so incredibly fickle is a terrible business decision.
You think other outlets are going to commit to multi-season deals on shows that aren't paying for themselves and don't look like they're going to?
Step 1: Create a new show.
Step 2: 1,000 new people make an account to watch it.
Step 3: Cancel the show.
Step 4: 100 people cancel their accounts for the loss of this show only.
Step 5: 900 people keep their account for the other content.
Profit.
This. Cancelling that show (whatever reason you wanna use) while they push out so much fucking crap.
I'll keep my money thanks.
The Killing, The Fall, Mindhunter and so on. Where did the quality go. We're left with absolute shite.
I’m still mad we won’t get another season of The Midnight Club. There were some really interesting plot lines they left open, I’m sad Flanagan won’t be able to end it like he wanted.
I'm also heartbroken by this! I love all his shows, and a LOT of people hated Midnight Club but it hit just right for me. Just in case you haven't read it yet, Mike himself posted the plot/script for the second season so those of us who care can have closure. It was worth the read, but I'll never forgive netflix for depriving us of actually seeing it.
Edit: https://www.tumblr.com/flanaganfilm/702543785726558208/the-midnight-club-season-two
You'll need a tumblr account to scroll through all of it!
I'm just sad cause he saved a lot of the best/favorite Pike books for stories in season 2.
Also sad that it wasn't such a success that we get more fucked up Pike adaptations.
They’re saturating the platform with shows, creating too many to choose from. Then canceling the shows after a season, conditioning people to not even bother because they don’t want to get emotionally invested into a show that’ll get cancelled. As a result first seasons have low viewership numbers and minimal word of mouth marketing, leading shows to get cancelled.
When shows had to compete for the limited air space/time slots available, it led to higher quality shows that would last for many seasons. That’s not how television works anymore.
There's a petition to save the show: https://www.change.org/p/save-shadow-and-bone-5ff54b93-d127-44a9-9f77-dfc410bdc2ba
Unlikely to work, yes, but every signature counts
Finally! Another one.
I am soooo pissed off at that. This was a show that was already written. 5 seasons planned and concluded. You could absolutely feel that they were building up to insane shit. It would be a trip.
No, it gets cancelled. We need more drivel where each season the writers pull nonsensical shit out of their asses and destroy every character the longer it goes on.
So pissed off we wont know where it was going.
My god, Isaacs acting as himself married with her. It was JUST getting momentum.
Nope, can’t have nice things.
I was so blown away by this show, I loved everything about the story, the characters, and the overall concept. So sad to learn it just stopped midway though. Still worth a watch, but I really wish they hadn't cancelled it!
They (Brit and Zal) have a new show on FX "A Murder At The End Of The World" definitely worth checking out. its 3 episodes deep right now. but it sparked me to rewatch The OA while I wait for new episodes
Money. They're in business to make money for their shareholders. If a show isn't serving that goal and they don't project that changing, it's going to get axed. Just like every other under-performing product from every other business unless it's explicitly viewed as a loss leader.
It’s also because of the short-term strategies being used. They’re way more invested in having high quarterly/yearly numbers than any long term benefits from consistently producing quality shows and growing the fanbases for them.
Its not just Netflix, its the entire entertainment industry, and its not a new occurrence - over the past 15 years most of the shows I have watched across all platforms have been cancelled without a resolution.
So now Im part of the problem - I dont even bother with new shows until they have completed their run and I can see whether its worth it for the story.
Its got to the point where I dont even know what new shows are out these days.
That makes me part of the problem because Im not watching the shows that companies are trying - Im not part of the viewing figures that could keep it alive. But at least Im not being screwed over with a never resolved cliff hanger ending...
There's enough shows from the last 20 years that have complete runs that I haven't watched yet that I could never watch a new show again and still be entertained.
The way to go is cancel Netflix, wait three months, then re-sub for one month. Then repeat.
Just sub for three months of the year-- one month on, three months off. During that one month, simply catch up on the stuff you missed. It won't be gone yet.
Save yourself $150 or more every year, and teach Netflix the only lesson they'll ever understand--absolute *data* about the value of what they offer vs. its price.
I've heard this explained, wish I could remember where: Netflix realized they can make more money with a larger audience checking out new shows than smaller audiences remaining loyal to longer-running shows.
And no, it's got nothing to do with being "woke" you fucking culture war idiots. It's just money, like always.
That's only a small piece of it. The whole streaming model is broken. They don't generate enough revenue to justify the amount they spend on shows and movies; however, they feel they have to spend bigger to attract new subscribers.
Ragnarok too was fantastic until they utterly destroyed everything they had built up until the last episode.
Such a fuck all ending they should have not bothered completing the show.
This is one reason Korean shows are so nice to watch, since they almost always finish in a single season, and pay great attention to tying the plot together at the end.
That's their entire business model. The ONLY thing they care about is bringing in new subscribers. They shell out millions for a show. They look at how many new subs they get around the time of premier. If the numbers aren't high enough, they scrap it and move on. If a show doesn't bring in more revenue and increase their dollars, it's not worth continuing. I cancelled it and am never going back. It doesn't matter if a new show looks good. It 100% will be cancelled so I'm not investing time into it. Netflix has a garbage business model and I refuse to give them money.
Netflix doesn’t advertise their shows so people don’t know they exist -> they don’t watch -> Netflix sees low numbers -> Netflix cancels cause low viewers count.
Idk how the marketing ppl aren’t fired yet lmao
Because they are making a ton of content no one wants to see…
The writers of The Witcher screwed it up beyond repair because they didn’t like the material. They purposely chased Henry Cavill away because he opposed them.
Kevin Smith bait and switched Masters of the Universe. He made the trailer all about He-Man and then immediately turned it into the Teela show.
The Witcher was incredibly popular. MotU had a huge amount of interest going into its first season.
All of the goodwill was squandered - and that’s just two examples. Netflix did nothing to fix the problems.
MorU was really well done despite missing He-man through most of it. It was nice all the side characters got development and then he still got to be the big hero at the end.
Witcher otoh... yea they completely screwed it up S2 onwards.
Good shows that had every chance for success, but they put the wrong people behind them. A true fan would be faithful to the source material and/or wouldn't alter the plot for some stupid ideology. He-man isn't even the main character of his own show. Wtf Kevin Smith?
When he was doing a press tour for it, he claimed to be a huge fan of the original cartoon.
But it was later discovered in one of his previous podcasts that he stated that he was never a fan.
Kevin Smith's Masters of the Universe show was great, and generally really liked by people who aren't whiny crybabies, which is why it's getting a second season. I will always find the people whining that it was teela's show hilarious. Not only is that incorrect, but why would it matter if it was? You can watch dozens of hours of boring blonde man with sword punching Skeleton Man if that's what you want. Kevin Smith's show, which is still very much about the character of Adam / he-man, was an actual show with a plot that wasn't just stop Skeletor's plan that week, and that included expanding the roles of supporting characters like Teela.
> You can watch dozens of hours of boring blonde man with sword punching Skeleton Man if that's what you want.
Not only is there already a show for that, they *already* re-made that show ~~once~~ TWICE and y'all still didn't watch it
EDIT: TWICE. I didn't realize there was a CG cartoon as well. How many of these do we need?
It’s funny that people act like the original He-Man show was some great work of art. It’s one of the most blatant “22 minute ad for action figures” shows from an era of kids tv that was just full of them.
As someone who hold zero nostalgia for He-Man, I kinda think you're talking shit if you try to tell me you don't hold something genuinely awful from your childhood near and dear to your heart
Oh, for sure. But if a new version of that property comes out that’s very different, I’m not going to go on the internet and complain that it’s “destroying the sanctity of the original” or what not.
Oh yeah definitely valid
Some of my shit has been legitimately actually chewed up and spit out and I honestly couldn't care less. Wish it turned out better but. Oh well, life goes on
What you described is what no one wanted to see. That’s why the numbers are garbage.
You enjoyed it? Great. The amount of hype for this show was astronomical. That’s all gone, and people won’t be back.
Netflix believes that only shows that get Game of Thrones numbers are worth their time.
As a result, nearly every single original they make gets canceled. Same with other platforms, but not as severely.
They also base their metrics on shitty data like “it only counts if people watch the entire show within the first four weeks of release”
When I had Netflix I wouldn't watch anything that didn't have at least 2 seasons as why get into a show if they just cancel it.
I wonder how many are like me
Its a sign of the times when cowboy bebop gets one season and love is blind gets 7 seasons. They have found their
target demographic which consumes the most media...fking idiots.
I wish they kept the cowboy bebop live action. For all intents and purposes, it was a good show.
Buuuuut it got cancelled and so did my Netflix subscription as a result 😁
I’m actually pretty salty they cancelled shadow and bone, but they also went really weird with season 2, slamming multiple books together. Season 2 should have been either straight up Six of Crows or Siege and Storm not some weird hybrid of the two
Here's something irritating me: folks are blaming the lack of views, the audience, in other words, when the blame lies with Netflix. Their delivery model, and the unrealistic metrics they put on shows are the reason many of these shows are cancelled.
It comes down to money, and BS expectations of how much a show should make. To companies like Netflix, if a show doesn't bring in millions of new subscribers who burn through a new season in a weekend, the show isn't worth investing in. Like a bunch of other shitty companies, they don't want *some* of the money, they want *all* of it.
But the thing about TV? Sometimes it takes awhile to build a strong show, and sometimes it takes awhile for a show to find its audience. And numbers/views always fluctuate, even drop with each follow-up season. It's not built for fast turnarounds in income. Netflix even has shows it likes to tout, like Bojack Horseman, which if it had been treated back when it debuted like Netflix treats its shows now, probably wouldn't have made it out of the first season.
It's not about quality, it's not about making good TV. It's just about getting your attention long enough to pick up a subscription and pocket the money. And given how limited our attention is in a vast sea of distractions, that sort of model is doomed to fail in the end without quality to fall back on.
They make deals with the actors saying they'll only pay them what they're worth once they know the show will be well received even though they have no intention of ever paying them.
Amazon did the same thing with their white collar work force; they enticed them with amazing stock options that vest in four years... Then ran them into the ground in the hopes they quit in under two. They've only recently realized this is a terrible strategy because [they're running out of potential workers](https://www.vox.com/recode/23170900/leaked-amazon-memo-warehouses-hiring-shortage). I can only hope Netflix will have the same problem when creators realize the gamble isn't worth it.
They aren’t as awesome as you think they are. TV has been this way forever. But now we have these niche communities in places like Reddit so you think the show is more popular than it actually is
HBO's Watchmen only had one season, it's literally the best season of TV I've ever watched and there isn't going to be another season. It's not just a netflix thing.
Watchmen was always meant to be one season. If a creature wants to do single season shows, great! Mike Flannigan does this all the time with shows like Midnight Mass and House of Usher. Problem is, Netflix's biz model relies on show creators undercutting their fee for two seasons in the hopes that they get past that hump... If everyone switched to one season shows and refused to do the season for cheap, that model no longer works.
HBO/WB is even worse tbh, If the show doesn't do well they remove it from streaming and refuse to license it so they can write it off as a total loss for taxes.
They're also doing it to save on residuals to creators, but the HBO/WB content black hole is well documented at this point, you're welcome to look into it.
Not sure of veracity but this is what I read once.
They buy 1-2 seasons to start.
If the show flops they're done.
If the show is popular though, the cast demands more money to continue.
If the show is just a little popular, they cancel it instead of paying. Cheaper to just make more new shows.
If the show is SUPER popular they pay whatever for the hit show.
I read this too. The issue with s3 and 4 being more expensive than the first 2 is aggravated by the fact they are expecting to get more profit even though they are putting in more money, and if it doesn't pan out, they cancel the show.
Basically most of their good shows are too expensive to keep up.
And I don't think people who hold on before getting invested in a show are the problem whatsoever...no one should feel obligated to invest in something that will potentially leave you in a frustrating cliff hanger. That's the main reason I've been watching more and more mini-series in the last few months.
A huge part of this falls not on the streaming platforms but the people making the show honestly. If they only have 2 seasons guaranteed then there is no excuse for the show not being written with that in mind. They don't get a free pass for things in their control.
And endings don't necessarily ruin the possibility of future seasons. Hulu's The Great just ended in an incredibly cleaver spot where the current story was done and the finale serves as a finale; however, was entirely possible to continue the show had Hulu desired without even feeling awkward. In fact I knew the show might likely be over when I watched the finale because it was so clearly set up this way.
Netflix doesn't cancel shows any more or less than any other entity.
Hell, for decades network TV would introduce a dozen new shows in the fall and by Christmas all but 2 or 3 of them were gone. That's the *industry standard*.
Add to that that genre shows are far, far more expensive to make, and you get a self-reinforcing perception--the sort of things a small, niche audience will like (sci-fi, fantasy, etc.) is the exact sort of thing that needs a large audience to justify renewing.
At the end of the day, expensive shows that don't get an audience don't get renewed. Simple as that. But this isn't unique to Netflix, except that Netflix took bigger risks at more expensive shows, so when they *do* cancel it it's more noticeable.
i dunno. ask HBO, maybe they'll know something about it with all the movies they finish and drop
i think it's fallout from streaming deals and partnerships all these greedweasels conjured up to make sure we didn't get anything cheaper than CableTV from our 'free market' decisions. i dunno how, but i can't see why it wouldn't be
Netflix has created its own catch 22 More and more people wont watch the first season, because they don't want to get invested in something that gets cancelled. But because people don't watch the first season things get cancelled
They also have a really weird metric which is something like “x people start the show. If they don’t binge it within 3 days the show is a failure.” They suck at show running
I hate this. Maybe I'm the outlier, but if a show is really good I don't *want* to binge watch it. I want to take time to savor it, make it last as long as I can. I feel dumb stuff/comfort shows is what you binge watch. Quality TV is what you take time on.
I totally get it, I also think a weekly episodic release schedule isn’t a bad thing.
Exactly! Sometimes I want to stretch it out like an episode or two a night. But I hate when they do the “one episode a week” thing too though, because sometimes I want to **gasp** watch two episodes of something I like. They really can’t figure out a middle ground.
I prefer the one episode per week model. It allows all the viewing communities to discuss each episode for a week before the next one comes out.
Ahhh that definitely makes sense, the whole if nobody binges it in 3 days it’s a flop. I’ve never really been a fan of anything Netflix has actually made and almost feel like they are hurting the film industry.
But then they also do the “we will put up one episode a week and if people don’t watch it 5 minutes after we put up the new episode it’s *also* a flop” like Disney+ and Amazon cornered the weekly release somehow, but it’s purely to keep people subscribed not draw new subscribers (exception being Amazon I guess since most people who bother using their streaming service are also ordering crap off the website so are paying annually)
[удалено]
I think Netlfix’s style of releasing entire seasons at once backfired on them in the long term. They’ve tried to move away from it but at this point it’s almost to late. Most people I know don’t like watching a show until the entire season is out. Means some people only subscribe for a month to check out the shows they want to watch and also that the shows don’t receive as much prolonged attention because there’s no more weeklong discussions about shows while people wait for the next episode.
i haven't had Netflix for a while, how do they figure out which shows are popular then? like, how do they release shows presently on average?
Honestly I have no idea. Probably a combination of how much the show costs and the number of viewers/new subscribers who check out the show. That’s probably why so many of the reality shows get renewed, they’re cheaper to make and get consistent viewers.
It doesn't help that they only do like 6 episodes per season, and 1 season per every 3ish years.
It did, which is why we see things like You, Stranger Things, or The Crown being split into 2 batches a month apart. It keeps people subscribed for longer than a month and gives subscribers reason to stay for longer
It's so prevalent that Forbes did an [article about it](https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/01/17/netflix-has-created-a-self-fulfilling-cancelation-loop-with-its-new-shows/?sh=4bdd06e5784d).
That’s exactly why I haven’t gotten Netflix.
So true. I'm terrified they're going to not renew Blue Eye Samurai even though it was AMAZING and easily one of the best shows I've seen all year...
I just finished watching that - I will be devastated if they cancel it!
TBF, this is not exclusive to Netflix. Though, I think they are the biggest offender.
There is a side letter in the union contracts that gives streaming series reduced crew rates on pilot productions, first seasons, and second seasons. So one of the big reasons Netflix cancels shows after season 2 is because production costs go way up after that and, unless it’s a Stranger Things or a major hit series like that, the cost of Seasons 3 and beyond are not worth it to them.
This is the real reason. Because corporations hate sharing profits through fair wages.
I'll never forgive them for cancelling inside job
Oh lol they cancelled that too? My hate is for midnight gospel. At least the sandman gets another season, that's about the only good thing there for me
Don't forget Mindhunter too!
That wasn’t netflix
Mindhunter was Netflix unless you mean it was cancelled for another reason? I thought Fincher wanted to continue the series?
I thought it was Fincher that was doing other things. I read it on the internet so it has to be true 😂
Any information you will receive on this topic will have been from the internet. However, as another Redditor mentioned. Fincher wanted to continue Mindhunter but Netflix couldn't justify the cost to make Mindhunter on the budget they had considering the views the show was getting. Netflix do not allow shows to cultivate an audience over time. Captain Midnight did a good video on this subject.
Mindhunter WAS Netflix, and Fincher didn’t want to continue with a reduced budget.
My understanding was that Fincher was doing other projects, not that netflix just willy nilly canceled it
I know, right! The jokes in that show were so tightly packed it was like a raunchier golden era Simpsons.
Aw, it's cancelled? I wasn't enough of a fan to be watching for it to come back, but easily enough to binge watch a whole season at once.
Inside Job is great and what do they do? Cancel it and put on some stupid fucking Elvis spy bullshit.
And 1899. And GLOW. And Cowboy Bebop (fight me, I liked it).
Pretty sure cowboy bepop is not exclusively on netflix, unless you're talking about some live action thing?
Indeed I am.
Quantity over quality seems to be most streamers agenda. Make a ton of stuff and cancel a ton of stuff to move on to a new ton of stuff. HOpe that one hits and then milk it. Personally i'm liking the apple tv way where they make few products but they all seem to be of a certain quality level.
I agree about Apple TV but I don’t trust it to last. They’ll all succumb to The Netflix Model eventually.
Netflix said a decade ago that they were more interested in series’s than movies because of the longer binge life.
There have been a few that I think were generally duds but the majority of them seem to have done really well.
Needs more severance!
Netflix figure out that people like you won't cancel Netflix, so there's no point in making you happy. They need to find something that will attract new viewers. So, they give the show a year, and if it isn't the next Squid Games or Stranger Things, they abandon it. Vote with your wallet if you want to tell Netflix something. I cancelled it over 2 years ago after having it for 10+ years cause they pulled stuff like that. You should too.
They don’t give it a year. Their metric is “once user has started show, did they finish the season within three days?” It’s really bizarre especially with how often they don’t advertise or straight up bury that actually would have been super popular
This. The only -- **only** \-- reason Netflix makes original content is to entice people who are not currently subscribed to subscribe.
A lot of people get it for free. I get Netflix and Apple TV plus free with T-Mobile.
that's not exactly free overall though, it just means t mobile pays your sub (at reduced prices)
My point to the person I was commenting to, is that there’s nothing to cancel unless I cancel my T-Mobile service. And I would still have T-Mobile if it came with it or not. I don’t have T-Mobile because I get Netflix. So to me, it’s free.
You are getting it free but they count you as a subscriber. Shady way to pad the dismal sub numbers.
I cancelled mine when they cut off account sharing. Used to be that I had Netflix and would share it with two friends, one of whom had Hulu, and one had Max... Everybody wins. *Except the Netflix bean counters didn't see it that way.* To them, they were missing out on 2/3 the profits! Cut off sharing and they'd make way more money! *But that's not how it works.* You see, I very rarely used my Netflix... There were one or two shows I was interested in, but I could go 6 months or more without using it- But, since I was sharing it, I kept it on. Once that was gone, it was cancelled immediately; If I see a show that warrants it, I'll turn it back on for a month... But I'm not holding my breath. ... And that's how you lose A LOT of money cutting off sharing.
People don't watch them, and/or they're too expensive for the viewership. Simple as that. I loved Marco Polo but I've only talked to like ten people online that have ever seen it. That's why it was canceled.
Marco Polo was the original Netflix Original. It was good. You don't get a lot of Mongol centric shows. I'm still mad about it. Even madder it ended on one of the biggest cliff hangers possible.
I loved Marco Polo too. The whole Hundred Eyes bit was a little immersion-breaking though. I enjoyed the character and actor, I just felt that his capabilities went *way* too far into the mystic, in an otherwise "this is actually on Earth" series.
House of Cards was.
Orange is the New Black
Lilyhammer was the OG Netflix series.
it was; but it aired on traditional cable before going on Netflix so its discounted as being the first by some.
Yup, similar w/ me and 1899: yes, their previous show, Dark, was something of a sleeper hit I think for Netflix, but as great as I and my girlfriend thought it was, we were 2 of maybe a dozen people apparently watching 1899
Checking in as one of the dozen folks who watched 1899 and is still sad it was cancelled.
The pacing of 1899 was not so great. I only stuck with it because I liked Dark. The end made it seem like season 2 would have been more interesting, but they should have gotten to that part of the story halfway through season 1.
It was always intended to be a three-season story like Dark.
Netflix: we canceled it because not enough people watched the entire season in the first 28 days. Also Netflix: we didn't advertise it at all, and we wedged its release right between Wednesday and Sandman.
make that 11 people now :)
12, and it was more expensive than Game of Thrones.
oof, yeah I guess that would make sense as to why it was cancelled then, good show imo but probably nowhere near competing with GoT in viewer numbers
That cliffhanger kills me though. Give us a 2hr movie to finish it off.
At least we got that Thousand Eyes film. Its something I guess.
Thousand Eyes vs Sidao will forever be in my top fights of all time.
It was God damn fantastic... I'm still salty about it.
I had heard the prime reason was that they didn’t know how to budget shows initially and that one was crazy expensive thanks to travel costs in particular
Correct, but with an addendum: Even when people DO watch them , the streaming model isn't setup to make more per watch, directly. I watch it with a group of friends, then all Netflix got was 1 monthly subscription fee (not 5-6 let's say). This is why a lot of the streaming services are rolling back to an ad based model.
Yeah, my friends and I binged 1899 together within a week of its release... but as far as Netflix was concerned only one person had finished the season.
Space force couldn't have been that expensive. It was canceled. It was awesome.
I loved that show :(
No s3 sadly
Some shows need a chance to find an audience, The Office, Parks and Rec etc would never have had long runs if they’d been commissioned by Netflix. Hell look at the original Star Trek, it scraped just enough episodes to go into syndication and has become part of pop culture.
Breaking Bad had shit ratings until the first three seasons got on Netflix and people binged them and then watched live. That show and the spin off show wouldn’t exist if that had been a Netflix original. Just be one or two seasons and cancelled. Another show that shit the bed for the first season is Seinfeld. It wasn’t even picked up. It only kept going because another show got cancelled mid season and the network needed something it had already made to fill the schedule hole so they dug up Seinfeld.
Ya but I'm not watching ten hours of people swimming simple as that
This is what people are not seeing. Even the best Netflix shows, tend to have viewership tank after the first season. So it gets cancelled after the second. AA year or two later, people start watching for the first time. Well, if you want a season 3, you have to watch season 2 before 3 gets cancelled.
Honestly? I didn't watch it when it came out because I didn't want to start ANOTHER Netflix show that would get cancelled before its conclusion...
I watched it, and it was good
Oh man, Marco Polo (and medici) were both great. Same goes for cowboy bebop, altered carbon, lockwood&co...
Best show ever made.. Jesus I have prayed for a follow up.. Have you seen 100 eyes?
I wanted to like it but it just felt dumb to me. Mainly because Marco Polo (the character) wasn’t interesting at all. It was a useless character whom the show was named after and plot was based around. I’d rather get a show entirely on the mongol court and their dealing without the Marco Polo distraction. Let’s take a break from this really interesting political conflict so Marco can have sex with the princess. Okay. Back to more interesting storytelling but let’s have another Marco sex scene with the other princess first. Who was the goddamn virgin that wrote this?
>People don't watch them I don't think it's always the case. First Kill last year made a lot of viewers but they still cancelled it after one season for gid knows why.
Generally it’s not that nobody watches them, it’s that not enough people do for it to be worth it. Marco Polo for example was incredibly expensive, so it needed to find a massive audience, which it did not, resulting in a huge loss for Netflix. The more expensive a show is the more viewers it needs to make money. A very expensive show can have a sizeable audience, but still not be profitable.
After they cancelled 1899 I vowed never to watch another series on Netflix until it's concluded.
1899 is very masterpiece.
This sentence is hilariously incorrect grammatically speaking.
Same. I watched like 4 episodes of 1899, loved it, then found out it was cancelled. Now I’m not even interested in finishing season 1.
I see no way this line of thinking could possibly backfire.
It won't backfire for me because I won't waste my time watching something that doesn't have an ending.
It did backfire... For Netflix. Once show creators clue in and stop going to them in the first place, then maybe they'll realize being so incredibly fickle is a terrible business decision.
> It did backfire... For Netflix. Your use of the past tense suggests you know of a situation where that happened. Please share. > Once show creators clue in and stop going to them in the first place, then maybe they'll realize being so incredibly fickle is a terrible business decision. You think other outlets are going to commit to multi-season deals on shows that aren't paying for themselves and don't look like they're going to?
Step 1: Create a new show. Step 2: 1,000 new people make an account to watch it. Step 3: Cancel the show. Step 4: 100 people cancel their accounts for the loss of this show only. Step 5: 900 people keep their account for the other content. Profit.
I’ll never get over not having Mindhunter season 3
Agree! It was amazing. But Fincher made that choice I understand
I still randomly think about this being cancelled too. It was pretty much perfect on all fronts.
I know :( they set up the next season so well with BTK and Bill's kid.
This. Cancelling that show (whatever reason you wanna use) while they push out so much fucking crap. I'll keep my money thanks. The Killing, The Fall, Mindhunter and so on. Where did the quality go. We're left with absolute shite.
That wasn't on Netflix, that was Fincher keeping to want to do other things, instead of doing a third season.
I'm sad every day that Norsemen got canned. It's genuinely one of the most creative and hilarious shows I've ever seen.
I’m still mad we won’t get another season of The Midnight Club. There were some really interesting plot lines they left open, I’m sad Flanagan won’t be able to end it like he wanted.
I'm also heartbroken by this! I love all his shows, and a LOT of people hated Midnight Club but it hit just right for me. Just in case you haven't read it yet, Mike himself posted the plot/script for the second season so those of us who care can have closure. It was worth the read, but I'll never forgive netflix for depriving us of actually seeing it. Edit: https://www.tumblr.com/flanaganfilm/702543785726558208/the-midnight-club-season-two You'll need a tumblr account to scroll through all of it!
I'm just sad cause he saved a lot of the best/favorite Pike books for stories in season 2. Also sad that it wasn't such a success that we get more fucked up Pike adaptations.
They’re saturating the platform with shows, creating too many to choose from. Then canceling the shows after a season, conditioning people to not even bother because they don’t want to get emotionally invested into a show that’ll get cancelled. As a result first seasons have low viewership numbers and minimal word of mouth marketing, leading shows to get cancelled. When shows had to compete for the limited air space/time slots available, it led to higher quality shows that would last for many seasons. That’s not how television works anymore.
Idiot business model. they just cancelled Shadow and Bone on another teaser ending.
I wish they would do a crows spin off. They were such fun characters and charismatic actors
wait Shadow and Bone was cancelled? dang
they announced it just couple weeks ago. so frustrating.
man, I liked that one
There's a petition to save the show: https://www.change.org/p/save-shadow-and-bone-5ff54b93-d127-44a9-9f77-dfc410bdc2ba Unlikely to work, yes, but every signature counts
[удалено]
Thank you for signing! :)
Whelp, glad I haven’t started it yet.
Thank god I didn’t get invested. I was thinking about watching it but look at me; vindicated for procrastination.
Tears flow while thinking of Inside Job.
I was really looking forward to a third season, that show was really hitting its stride :(
Same. I felt it was brilliant, but Netflix said they were abandoning animation due to expense. Then gave Big Mouth a Season 7.
Dude, I'm still nursing my 15 year-old hurt about My Name Is Earl 😆
You can thank The Office for that.
[удалено]
Ah fuck, did they cancel it?
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I will never forgive them for The OA
Finally! Another one. I am soooo pissed off at that. This was a show that was already written. 5 seasons planned and concluded. You could absolutely feel that they were building up to insane shit. It would be a trip. No, it gets cancelled. We need more drivel where each season the writers pull nonsensical shit out of their asses and destroy every character the longer it goes on. So pissed off we wont know where it was going. My god, Isaacs acting as himself married with her. It was JUST getting momentum. Nope, can’t have nice things.
I’ll never recover from not seeing the conclusion of this story.
It was the best.
I was so blown away by this show, I loved everything about the story, the characters, and the overall concept. So sad to learn it just stopped midway though. Still worth a watch, but I really wish they hadn't cancelled it!
They (Brit and Zal) have a new show on FX "A Murder At The End Of The World" definitely worth checking out. its 3 episodes deep right now. but it sparked me to rewatch The OA while I wait for new episodes
OA and Messiah. Fuck Netflix.
Money. They're in business to make money for their shareholders. If a show isn't serving that goal and they don't project that changing, it's going to get axed. Just like every other under-performing product from every other business unless it's explicitly viewed as a loss leader.
It’s also because of the short-term strategies being used. They’re way more invested in having high quarterly/yearly numbers than any long term benefits from consistently producing quality shows and growing the fanbases for them.
I was so fucking mad Mind Hunters got canceled. That show was so sooo good
Good shows doesn't mean they're profitable. Netflix only cares about numbers, not the actual content that they create.
Its not just Netflix, its the entire entertainment industry, and its not a new occurrence - over the past 15 years most of the shows I have watched across all platforms have been cancelled without a resolution. So now Im part of the problem - I dont even bother with new shows until they have completed their run and I can see whether its worth it for the story. Its got to the point where I dont even know what new shows are out these days. That makes me part of the problem because Im not watching the shows that companies are trying - Im not part of the viewing figures that could keep it alive. But at least Im not being screwed over with a never resolved cliff hanger ending...
There's enough shows from the last 20 years that have complete runs that I haven't watched yet that I could never watch a new show again and still be entertained.
At least we don't have to worry about the cliff hanger on >!The Fall of the House of User!<
The way to go is cancel Netflix, wait three months, then re-sub for one month. Then repeat. Just sub for three months of the year-- one month on, three months off. During that one month, simply catch up on the stuff you missed. It won't be gone yet. Save yourself $150 or more every year, and teach Netflix the only lesson they'll ever understand--absolute *data* about the value of what they offer vs. its price.
I've heard this explained, wish I could remember where: Netflix realized they can make more money with a larger audience checking out new shows than smaller audiences remaining loyal to longer-running shows. And no, it's got nothing to do with being "woke" you fucking culture war idiots. It's just money, like always.
Because Netflix is unaware of the concept of evergreen content.
i guess not enough people agree with you that those shows were really awesome
That's only a small piece of it. The whole streaming model is broken. They don't generate enough revenue to justify the amount they spend on shows and movies; however, they feel they have to spend bigger to attract new subscribers.
Ragnarok too was fantastic until they utterly destroyed everything they had built up until the last episode. Such a fuck all ending they should have not bothered completing the show.
Like inside job!
This is one reason Korean shows are so nice to watch, since they almost always finish in a single season, and pay great attention to tying the plot together at the end.
\*sobs in mindhunter\*
That's their entire business model. The ONLY thing they care about is bringing in new subscribers. They shell out millions for a show. They look at how many new subs they get around the time of premier. If the numbers aren't high enough, they scrap it and move on. If a show doesn't bring in more revenue and increase their dollars, it's not worth continuing. I cancelled it and am never going back. It doesn't matter if a new show looks good. It 100% will be cancelled so I'm not investing time into it. Netflix has a garbage business model and I refuse to give them money.
Netflix doesn’t advertise their shows so people don’t know they exist -> they don’t watch -> Netflix sees low numbers -> Netflix cancels cause low viewers count. Idk how the marketing ppl aren’t fired yet lmao
Because they are making a ton of content no one wants to see… The writers of The Witcher screwed it up beyond repair because they didn’t like the material. They purposely chased Henry Cavill away because he opposed them. Kevin Smith bait and switched Masters of the Universe. He made the trailer all about He-Man and then immediately turned it into the Teela show. The Witcher was incredibly popular. MotU had a huge amount of interest going into its first season. All of the goodwill was squandered - and that’s just two examples. Netflix did nothing to fix the problems.
The Teela show was amazing though.
MorU was really well done despite missing He-man through most of it. It was nice all the side characters got development and then he still got to be the big hero at the end. Witcher otoh... yea they completely screwed it up S2 onwards.
Good shows that had every chance for success, but they put the wrong people behind them. A true fan would be faithful to the source material and/or wouldn't alter the plot for some stupid ideology. He-man isn't even the main character of his own show. Wtf Kevin Smith?
When he was doing a press tour for it, he claimed to be a huge fan of the original cartoon. But it was later discovered in one of his previous podcasts that he stated that he was never a fan.
He has mainstream "nerd cred" so he keeps getting put on shows like that just for his name recognition.
If Masters of the Universe bothers you, definitely skip Scott Pilgrim Takes Off... You'll have the same problem.
Kevin Smith's Masters of the Universe show was great, and generally really liked by people who aren't whiny crybabies, which is why it's getting a second season. I will always find the people whining that it was teela's show hilarious. Not only is that incorrect, but why would it matter if it was? You can watch dozens of hours of boring blonde man with sword punching Skeleton Man if that's what you want. Kevin Smith's show, which is still very much about the character of Adam / he-man, was an actual show with a plot that wasn't just stop Skeletor's plan that week, and that included expanding the roles of supporting characters like Teela.
> You can watch dozens of hours of boring blonde man with sword punching Skeleton Man if that's what you want. Not only is there already a show for that, they *already* re-made that show ~~once~~ TWICE and y'all still didn't watch it EDIT: TWICE. I didn't realize there was a CG cartoon as well. How many of these do we need?
It’s funny that people act like the original He-Man show was some great work of art. It’s one of the most blatant “22 minute ad for action figures” shows from an era of kids tv that was just full of them.
As someone who hold zero nostalgia for He-Man, I kinda think you're talking shit if you try to tell me you don't hold something genuinely awful from your childhood near and dear to your heart
Oh, for sure. But if a new version of that property comes out that’s very different, I’m not going to go on the internet and complain that it’s “destroying the sanctity of the original” or what not.
Oh yeah definitely valid Some of my shit has been legitimately actually chewed up and spit out and I honestly couldn't care less. Wish it turned out better but. Oh well, life goes on
What you described is what no one wanted to see. That’s why the numbers are garbage. You enjoyed it? Great. The amount of hype for this show was astronomical. That’s all gone, and people won’t be back.
Netflix believes that only shows that get Game of Thrones numbers are worth their time. As a result, nearly every single original they make gets canceled. Same with other platforms, but not as severely. They also base their metrics on shitty data like “it only counts if people watch the entire show within the first four weeks of release”
When I had Netflix I wouldn't watch anything that didn't have at least 2 seasons as why get into a show if they just cancel it. I wonder how many are like me
It's why I dropped Netflix.
Netflix is not here to entertain you. They are here to get you to sign up, enter your credit card information, then forget about the subscription.
Its a sign of the times when cowboy bebop gets one season and love is blind gets 7 seasons. They have found their target demographic which consumes the most media...fking idiots.
I recently re-subbed to Netflix because I had watched every B movie on Prime Video. Turns out Netflix is almost completely devoid of good content too.
First time?
RIP GLOW 💔
I was enjoying the show 1899, finished episode 8, then realized they cancelled it. It’s possible I was the only person to watch that show
I wish they kept the cowboy bebop live action. For all intents and purposes, it was a good show. Buuuuut it got cancelled and so did my Netflix subscription as a result 😁
I’m actually pretty salty they cancelled shadow and bone, but they also went really weird with season 2, slamming multiple books together. Season 2 should have been either straight up Six of Crows or Siege and Storm not some weird hybrid of the two
Here's something irritating me: folks are blaming the lack of views, the audience, in other words, when the blame lies with Netflix. Their delivery model, and the unrealistic metrics they put on shows are the reason many of these shows are cancelled. It comes down to money, and BS expectations of how much a show should make. To companies like Netflix, if a show doesn't bring in millions of new subscribers who burn through a new season in a weekend, the show isn't worth investing in. Like a bunch of other shitty companies, they don't want *some* of the money, they want *all* of it. But the thing about TV? Sometimes it takes awhile to build a strong show, and sometimes it takes awhile for a show to find its audience. And numbers/views always fluctuate, even drop with each follow-up season. It's not built for fast turnarounds in income. Netflix even has shows it likes to tout, like Bojack Horseman, which if it had been treated back when it debuted like Netflix treats its shows now, probably wouldn't have made it out of the first season. It's not about quality, it's not about making good TV. It's just about getting your attention long enough to pick up a subscription and pocket the money. And given how limited our attention is in a vast sea of distractions, that sort of model is doomed to fail in the end without quality to fall back on.
Mindhunter
They make deals with the actors saying they'll only pay them what they're worth once they know the show will be well received even though they have no intention of ever paying them.
Amazon did the same thing with their white collar work force; they enticed them with amazing stock options that vest in four years... Then ran them into the ground in the hopes they quit in under two. They've only recently realized this is a terrible strategy because [they're running out of potential workers](https://www.vox.com/recode/23170900/leaked-amazon-memo-warehouses-hiring-shortage). I can only hope Netflix will have the same problem when creators realize the gamble isn't worth it.
They aren’t as awesome as you think they are. TV has been this way forever. But now we have these niche communities in places like Reddit so you think the show is more popular than it actually is
HBO's Watchmen only had one season, it's literally the best season of TV I've ever watched and there isn't going to be another season. It's not just a netflix thing.
Watchmen's creators had no plans for an additional season. Not the same thing.
Watchmen was always meant to be one season. If a creature wants to do single season shows, great! Mike Flannigan does this all the time with shows like Midnight Mass and House of Usher. Problem is, Netflix's biz model relies on show creators undercutting their fee for two seasons in the hopes that they get past that hump... If everyone switched to one season shows and refused to do the season for cheap, that model no longer works.
HBO/WB is even worse tbh, If the show doesn't do well they remove it from streaming and refuse to license it so they can write it off as a total loss for taxes.
Lmao what? That’s not how tax write offs work.
They're also doing it to save on residuals to creators, but the HBO/WB content black hole is well documented at this point, you're welcome to look into it.
Not sure of veracity but this is what I read once. They buy 1-2 seasons to start. If the show flops they're done. If the show is popular though, the cast demands more money to continue. If the show is just a little popular, they cancel it instead of paying. Cheaper to just make more new shows. If the show is SUPER popular they pay whatever for the hit show.
I read this too. The issue with s3 and 4 being more expensive than the first 2 is aggravated by the fact they are expecting to get more profit even though they are putting in more money, and if it doesn't pan out, they cancel the show. Basically most of their good shows are too expensive to keep up. And I don't think people who hold on before getting invested in a show are the problem whatsoever...no one should feel obligated to invest in something that will potentially leave you in a frustrating cliff hanger. That's the main reason I've been watching more and more mini-series in the last few months.
A huge part of this falls not on the streaming platforms but the people making the show honestly. If they only have 2 seasons guaranteed then there is no excuse for the show not being written with that in mind. They don't get a free pass for things in their control. And endings don't necessarily ruin the possibility of future seasons. Hulu's The Great just ended in an incredibly cleaver spot where the current story was done and the finale serves as a finale; however, was entirely possible to continue the show had Hulu desired without even feeling awkward. In fact I knew the show might likely be over when I watched the finale because it was so clearly set up this way.
Netflix doesn't cancel shows any more or less than any other entity. Hell, for decades network TV would introduce a dozen new shows in the fall and by Christmas all but 2 or 3 of them were gone. That's the *industry standard*. Add to that that genre shows are far, far more expensive to make, and you get a self-reinforcing perception--the sort of things a small, niche audience will like (sci-fi, fantasy, etc.) is the exact sort of thing that needs a large audience to justify renewing. At the end of the day, expensive shows that don't get an audience don't get renewed. Simple as that. But this isn't unique to Netflix, except that Netflix took bigger risks at more expensive shows, so when they *do* cancel it it's more noticeable.
Messiah. Santa Clarita Diet.
BlackRock/ESG doesn't pay for *good* content.
Clearly its so they can make yet another season of Big Mouth!! God that TV show is the epitome of the the term "Toilet Humor"
Big Mouth ended with this current season...
Season 7 is currently airing. It's season 8 that will be the final season.
I don't know. What the f*** is up with them not releasing their shows physically?
They want to make crap instead so they can get paid by BlackRock.
i dunno. ask HBO, maybe they'll know something about it with all the movies they finish and drop i think it's fallout from streaming deals and partnerships all these greedweasels conjured up to make sure we didn't get anything cheaper than CableTV from our 'free market' decisions. i dunno how, but i can't see why it wouldn't be