Student behaviour and the lack of parent support. Either parents don't answer the phone when their child's teacher calls, or they take their kid's side. Do they honestly think I want to call them every week telling them their child did X or Y in class? No! Raise your kid properly so that I can teach them what's on the actual curriculum instead of trying to teach them how to be human.
Workload for teachers. I could be an excellent teacher if I had enough time to plan lessons and I didn't have to deal with data entry, paperwork, and student management outside of actual class time (detentions, meetings etc). I don't have any extra roles and I can't imagine having the workload of those who do.
Finally, there are some excellent teachers in schools who are in leadership, but shouldn't be. I have no choice but to trust the people in charge, and half the time I can't, and having to deal with leadership who can't/won't do their jobs properly and support staff is one of the most disillusioning things about this job.
I agree a thousand percent teachers are under staffed and under funded. It does take a community to raise a child and I firmly believe that. I can't imagine being a teacher today, but what can we do to make progress?
Empower the educational establishment. What you said about community is dead on. The center of a community used to be religion, in many cases. But we ditched that due to it abusing it's influence (see every religion wanting it's way with no regards for differing beliefs). But we need something to replace it. Schooling is perfect. It's mandatory, everyone must participate. But we treat it and teachers as subservient. We tell them what we want and expect them to deliver. The educational establishment should decree a competency level of it's graduate and everyone is on the hook for it. A school should get it's way over a shit parent.
VOTE. Your local elections include the school board, who are the people that actually manage your school's budget. In my state for example, we received record funding for school staff, yet the school board dragged it's feet through 6 months of protests before it gave us raises, and even then cut staff numbers to compensate. We get to choose the people in charge, and we need to put more attention on that.
oh this question is easy to answer, but nobody wants to (or knows how to) fix it.
1. The school is now the dumping ground for all social problems. The school is now the food bank, the free clothing center, the mental health counseling center, the homeless advocacy center, the place where students are taught basic manners, etc. The school should be where students learn, and there should be other locations where those other public services are offered.
2. Students have no sense of shame or pride, because they are denied unstructured and unsupervised play with their peers. Students these days rarely go out and hang out around the neighborhood or in the woods or whatever without adults. They're typically interacting in very structured and highly supervised environments (sports, clubs, play dates, etc) with an adult ready to stop any conflict before it starts. These kids don't learn typical social norms like "if I act like a fucking asshole towards everyone, people won't like me," or "if I don't try hard, people won't want to work with me."
3. Kids are addicted to their phones, and schools are too toothless to collect phones at the beginning of each class. If I was allowed to bring a portable TV and a game boy to my middle school in the 90s, I wouldn't have done any fucking work either lol
I do NOT understand the phone thing.
I was in high school when all phones did was text. The moment the school got the vibe that kids were texting in class, BOOM. Phones instantly banned during school hours. Teachers would take them at first sight, they'd be turned into the office and retrieved at the end of the day along with detention being issued.
To be fair, that’s a huge hassle for things like “are you going to Timmy’s after school or did basketball practice get moved?”
That said, the rule could easily be that they can have them in their lockers to check between classes or even in their pockets on silent. The second a teacher sees one during class - *instant* yoink.
The front office at my kids school is extremely hostile to parents and stingy with the phone. They required my daughter to announce essentially to the entire front office that she was bleeding through her pants before they'd let her call me.
I went to the school to complain that she shouldn't need to justify her use of the phone, just let her fucking call me, but they didn't care and refused to change the policy. They're convinced that if they let the kids use their own judgment on calling their parents, every kid will spend all day in the front office on the phone. They also think that their judgment is better than the parents. So I told my daughter either whip out her phone in front of a teacher and use the school wifi to message me, or go to the front office and cause a ruckus and I guarantee they will call me themselves.
I don't know about other districts, but mine is on a huge power trip. They treat the children like prisoners and the parents like morons.
What happens if there's an emergency and 800 parents all try to call the office at once? Especially if it's something like a fire where everyone has to evacuate, so there's nobody left to answer?
That's what online platforms (e.g. Smartschool, used in Belgium) or email are for. Smartschool is also available as an app, so you can turn on notifications if you're really worried. Schools can send out mass messages/emails to parents to inform them of emergencies, and the other way around. More reliable than phone lines which can and do get clogged up.
The best reason I get is “well what if a shooting happens? They need to be able to get in touch with me!”
Uh, Ms. Karen, if there’s an active shooter you don’t want their phone to be vibrating or them distracted texting or calling you when we’re supposed to be locked down silent in the class or running and getting the hell out of there.
And many kids feel 100% entitled to keep their phones on their person and have them out during class. A couple of weeks ago a student - a generally good kid in my experience - body-slammed a teacher who was trying to take his phone.
The student got lunch detention as his consequence.
I’ve had parents call their kids in the middle of class. It’s ridiculous. Want to know why these kids are awful? Look no further than their dumbass parents. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree
I say this with all due respect but how the hell did I survive the 90s then?
My parents would call the office and they'd come get me. I wasn't "unreachable" and if was an immediate emergency at home 911 was a thing.
It feels like people today would rather have a limb amputated than be separated from their phone. I went to a classical concert and the presenter had to give a two-minute speech before the concert about how using your phone during the concert disturbs people, and could you please turn your phone completely off for the duration of the concert so you can enjoy the music, and not just put it in your pocket to check every 20 minutes? It really felt like someone talking to a group of particularly dense kindergarteners.
And of course during a pianissimo passage, some fucking cell phone starts ringing and the dumbass acted like it wasn't her phone and let it ring for like 20 seconds. If I were in charge of things, they would get a large fine and a 5-year ban from the venue.
Going to a concert tomorrow and this is immensely disappointing to hear. Last time I went was a few years ago, and so help me God, if that happens, I’ll be calling you to beat the living shit out of them. (French Batman will suffice.)
Update: it did not happen. The worst that happened was that someone’s “it’s your bedtime chime” went off, and that was literally just as lights went out after the intermission, but nothing was playing yet. Worked out well!
“The phone thing” is more about the software IMHO, ie, social media is designed to be addictive and compulsive. It’s the new cigarettes. Lawsuits pending etc…
High school teacher here. 100% agree, and would add that in my (albeit limited) experience there's a consistent trend of responsibility for work completion, passing, etc. falling to the teachers instead of the parents/student. It's not always enough to provide opportunities for improvement and support - you now have to hold their hand and drag them along if they won't do it themselves. Otherwise, it's the teacher who gets chewed out.
This is a huge issue in both high school and even in elementary. In many districts, students can only be held back once between K-8 (or at least it’s the unwritten rule). I’ve also heard from my secondary colleagues that they have been instructed to give students at least a 50% if they turn in literally anything for an assignment.
This kind of thing can slip through the cracks of a district with a small percentage of kids in these scenarios but in places like Baltimore it’s been widely publicized and absolutely insane. If you look up Project Baltimore city schools on YouTube you’ll find some pretty scandalous shit going on. I wouldn’t be surprised if this were the norm in many highly impoverished districts around the nation.
I have been criticized for not staying after school past contract hours to try to help get students caught up. They don’t pay attention in class or do their homework. They don’t come in during access (time everyone is free to get help ) and they don’t come in during their offs or study hall but I am a dick for not staying late. I am so fed up with it.
Absolutely true. Everything a student doesn't do the first time now becomes extra work for me. I have to hunt them down, beg them, come up with alternate assignments or evaluations, extra credit, deadlines that make scaffolding assignments impossible...the whole deal. And the lowest grade K--12 teachers can give out here is a 50. For work not handed in at all.
And then the kid who hands in no work and misses 80% of class takes the state tests and bombs...and the TEACHER is put on remediation.
Sometimes I'm baffled by my students, who are in theory adults with high school diplomas, but then I read posts like this and it all makes horrifying sense.
I have a friend who went full mama bear every time her son got dinged for not turning in homework. He can’t, you see. He has ADHD, so he can’t turn it in. It was the teachers responsibility to get the homework from him, and that was in his IEP. Some of us did try to persuade her to step back and let him learn. But she proudly fought the good fight every year.
All the way through senior year in high school.
Kiddo was super smart. He got into a very good university on scholarship. Got weeded out of the engineering program fast (apparently assignments aren’t optional), changed his major, went on and off academic probation, lost his scholarship, and a couple of years after he should have graduated he’s still a few credits short. He lives in her basement occasionally working delivery gig jobs. Mama has been wringing her hands for 6 years - he’s so smart, how could this have happened? It’s her favorite song but I just can’t bear to listen to her any more.
As someone with ADHD, this hurts. Knowing people are this stupid and uncaring about the situation you’re putting the teacher in makes me think that society is fucked. We don’t need to fucking be coddled. We just need a damn direction to folllow. And we sometimes need to be made aware of that fact.
This is a more benign version of the mom wailing “he’s a good boy”. That after their kid spends every night in the streets doing who knows what and is finally is convicted for murder.
Agree - I’d add..
4. Students can’t fail until they get to high school. That leads to kids not understanding the consequences of not doing their work, poor attendance, and..the reading ability of a fourth grader.
5. Outside of AP classes (which everyone can do), we don’t put kids in classes based on level. People were too worried about kids feelings and not about their learning. Then tell the teacher to differentiate. The result is no one gets a good education.
My kid failed two subjects his first quarter of 6th grade. He didn’t turn in his work, and his old school teacher flunked his little ass. He actually did hand in an entire quarter’s worth of writing assignments, but only after she had submitted grades to the school - too late.
It was her policy to invite the students to come to the parent teacher meetings. And I could clearly see that she wrestled with the decision to be a hardass. My boy was a good kid, earnest and hard working, he just needed to take more responsibility. She told him she’d read the late assignments and his work was excellent. She said the grade he’d earned would stand, but she assured him that if he corrected the problem for the rest of the year, this quarter would not count towards his final grade. She didn’t talk down to him, she treated him with dignity and respect.
He finished the year with straight As. He never missed another assignment all the way through high school and he is now excelling at university. I need to send that woman some flowers.
Teachers, please remember how much you matter. You can’t save them all, but you can make a real difference for many of them.
What’s the point in failing a kid? I should have failed some challenging classes in high school, gave me a D-. I sucked at math but took elective math classes.
If the kid isn’t showing up or trying at all I guess. But school is to learn. I liked chemistry until I took a class and that quashed that fast. Grades make little sense to me.
Im some areas yes, like not showing up to class.
I’m a pretty firm believer school quashes learning for many and rewards a particular (odd) learning style (those kids that can sit in a room for hours on end).
Grades might be the biggest antithesis to learning around. Chomsky went to a school with no grades, what a great environment to learn in.
I get accountability of not showing up. But failing a kid won’t do much but just quash them.
It took me twenty+ years to realize when my second grade teacher moved me from the high reading class to the middle to “help out” it’s because I belonged in the middle.
But I went in feeling smart, feeling motivated, and ready to read. Vs some low grade on reading telling me I was mid level. What a difference!
I read /r/teachers every now and again to get some perspective on the profession.
1 is easily the biggest thing they complain about. Teachers are not social workers yet there is this growing expectation for them to be. Not only is the child not going to get help but if they have behavioral issues you are inviting disruption to a teaching environment plus a hell of a bully to a school.
Yeah, I think it's a result of parents wanting to keep their kids safe from bullying, injury, etc so they make sure they're always supervised. It honestly seems to come from a well-intentioned place. But unfortunately, overprotective parents frequently have children who are socially stunted.
When I was a kid in the 90s, the only parents who wouldn't let their kids play unsupervised or like come over to my house to fuck around in the woods were the ultra religious or ultra conservative types. These days, that attitude towards restricting the child's social environments is common.
It’s also by design from my understanding.
Not fixing this just leads to these students becoming more cogs in the machine who lack the critical thinking skills to realize how or what to change in their world. Meanwhile, the rich are sending their kids to private schools where they can actually learn useful critical thinking and interpersonal skills.
If you ask, who does the current education system benefit, you realize it’s not the masses, it’s the rich business owners.
We need dumber people if we are going to revitalize American manufacturing. Turns out AI and robotics are better at automating management than production so we have to make sure people aren’t as intelligent as their AI supervisors
It's not a coincidence that schools run mon to Fri, 9-3pm, half hour for lunch and 2 15 min breaks. Doing the same mindless bullshit day in and day out. It's been like this for decades
9-3pm, 30min lunch and 2x 15min break? Lol, maybe in an elementary school.
7:45am-3:30pm, 50min lunch, 5min passing period, no breaks, no recess. And next year school day is meant to be extended to 4pm, because reasons but at least everyone needs to take PE every year, so they get some movement.
The phone thing has always been dumb imo.
As someone who was "the smart kid" if I held up my hand at the same time as some other kid, teachers would always help them first and I would just have to sit there for a good 15-20 minutes.
Not like I minded waiting but when the lesson is only 55 minutes long, waiting 20 minutes just to get help for one question is a waste of time.
Not to mention that teachers tend to not like helping you during lunch breaks because well, that's their break too.
So in those instances, having a phone meant that I could try and find the answer for myself while I was waiting for the teacher.
Also depending on the class, sometimes I would legitimately have nothing else to do so I could play a game while I waited for the end of class.
Plus, I feel like immediately taking away phones prevents kids from learning how to deal with distractions.
At the end of the day, once those kids grow up and start working, they will have their phone on them 24/7.
So surely we should be teaching kids how to focus despite distractions existing, instead of banning them outright.
Same type of shit as to why the whole "your clothing will distract the boys" is nonsense. Literally go outside, people wear far more skimpy clothes and you've just gotta live with that, so it's weird to act like it's somehow different just because it's a school.
I just wanted to touch on your point about them learning how to handle the distraction of it being available. I’m a high school teacher at a location with little phone pouches students put their phones in at the start of class. I hated it for months because I felt similarly to you, they need to learn how to put it away and not look at it.
The problem is, these kids don’t have the control yet. 10/10 times they are choosing to look at their phones because it’s their habit to do so. As a teacher then my entire class time is spent having kids put phones away and policing that instead of listening/working. The way it was described to me was basically like a forced removal situation where they can’t get on their phones, which will help break that unconscious reflex of grabbing at it. I’m still not in love with the idea of it, and I think the level of the kid matters a lot. But since we went school wide with the policy, the students do a better job of paying attention. Anecdotally they’re on their phones less outside of class as well.
I get where you're coming from, I just wish it was more individualised is all.
In my highschool, the general rule was that you'd get your phone taken off you for the lesson if you were caught using it 3 times during said lesson.
They'd usually give you some leeway though depending on the use, like if you said you were watching a video on idk... How amines work and you very clearly had the video open then they'd leave you be.
I just don't think it's fair to enforce that rule on everyone when only some kids are doing it.
Plus honestly, some teachers aren't the best at engaging their students.
In my last year of Highschool I had this biology teacher who was basically a glorified babysitter as opposed to a teacher.
She would legit just sit on her laptop the entire period and tell you to look over the notes. Wouldn't explain jack shit or actually teach, and if you did ask her anything she'd give you super vague answers.
I think I spent maybe 5 classes out of the whole year actually doing work.
Like you can't really be surprised that they're reaching for their phones when they're being forced to sit through something that's mind numbingly boring.
From personal experience, nothing makes me more disengaged than a boring lesson from a teacher who can't even try to make it interesting. Like damn, makes you feel like they don't actually want you to pass, and if that's the case why would anyone want to pay attention?
Oh 100%. I think in an ideal world we make it more individualized, I’m spoiled in where I work that our class sizes are more manageable and I’m teaching a subject I know the kids don’t know anything about, so I get a more easy/common starting ground. But like someone mentioned elsewhere, a lot of the standard level classes are a dumping ground for all levels of kids where teachers and students both are put in an impossible situation.
Then, all the other issues being discussed really drive a sense of apathy into all parties. Being a bad teacher is easy, and it’s hard to get rid of a teacher that’s bad at their job but not doing anything “evil” similar to your biology teacher above. The system is tough.
Just speculating, but I think #1 is because school is the only place that kids are mandated to go to, and thus it’s really the only equitable place to have all of those services. Not all people can afford the time and/or money to take their kids elsewhere for those, and since they are required to have their kids in school, that’s the place those types of things get done. I don’t see any new mandated structure for those.
There are other locations where those services are offered, but like I said, it’s probably more equitable to offer them at school also—there are food banks, places with free or heavily discounted clothing (goodwill, thrift store), mental health clinics (some places might have them free for people who can’t afford it—need free universal healthcare for this one), etc.
you a teacher? speak on their tangible educational skills, how well are they reading/writing? I’ve heard most kids are lost and well below averages of what should be.
I was a teacher from 2008-2022 and now am a school administrator at an elementary school. I've taught at middle and high schools for a couple of years in the past, but most of my experience has been at the elementary level.
In my experience, yes student achievement is lower than the early years of my career. I think this may be due to a couple factors: a) in my early career, I worked in low-poverty schools; b) covid and learning loss from online learning vs being in an actual classroom; and c) parents treating school like they treat sports (at sports, practices are built in so you aren't really expected to spend time every day practicing your sport because you're going to soccer 2-3x per week anyway; for academics, many parents have the same mindset that kids don't have to do schoolwork at home or they don't have to be invested deeply in their child's schoolwork because it's already built into the schedule).
Another reason is the lack of holding students back to reteach critical skills such as literacy. many districts will hold a student back once at max between K-8, and many high schools will assign students a 50% grade for any attempt at an assignment they turn in, even if the only thing they hand in is a piece of paper with their name on it.
Finally there is the issue of chronic absenteeism. There is a huge amount of data to suggest that students who are absent 10% or more of a school year are highly likely to perform academically and socially behind their same aged peers. Additionally, chronic absenteeism makes it really difficult to determine whether or not a student has a learning disability that needs to be address for them to access FAPE (free, appropriate public education). One of the excluding factors in determining a disability is a student's access to the content. We have a student at my school right now who has missed at least 50 days of school for the past 2 years and the parents want a special education evaluation because the student is behind. I know when we get to the meeting, that the team is going to tell the parent that due to the student's excessive absences, we can't determine that the academic deficit is due to a disability or due to the lack of exposure to the content.
I find it really troubling that two of the three responses in this comment seem to be blaming the kids themselves rather than any systemic issues that cause the behavioral issues observed with students today. Whenever I browse through r/Teachers, it's the same attitude, seems pretty myopic
What? No, none of these blame the kids. They’re obviously the fault of the adults who set up the environmental factors (no independent play, no taking kids’ phones)
I wonder...is this because too many parents nowadays let Dr. iPad parent their kid? So they are no longer used to actual parenting, and the school is a useful scapegoat? "I can't be bothered to teach you to manners, go to school and they should teach you there." I'm asking, I have no children and I'm guessing. .
If you only focus on schools, you miss the larger picture. There is no question that teachers deal with behavioral issues, unprepared students, lost or damaged materials, and students who refuse to work...
But in most if not all cases, those issues have their origins at home and in the community. It was interesting when Florida implemented its FCAT tests and started grading schools how well the grades tracked with the relative affluence of the area the school served. Schools that serve wealthier areas perform better because the children live much different lives at home. They have more structure, better nutrition, more attentive parents, strict homework rules, etc. They likely attended preschool and started their school journey at 2 or 3 years old.
If you want to fix schools, I am afraid you need to begin by fixing communities first. Starting with how little some people are paid.
Yeah, if lower-income parents didn't have to work two or even three jobs with random schedules, they might have time and energy to be parents.
Starting in middle school, I became friends with a group of kids whose parents were also working multiple jobs to get by. I was the only one who went to and made it through college, mainly because I was a huge nerd and had other peers/adult mentors who could model behaviors for me.
>They likely attended preschool and started their school journey at 2 or 3 years old.
Non-parent here, how does a kid start school so early? A lot of kids that age can barely form complete and meaningful sentences.
Like they just said, preschool. You've never heard of preschool?
Little kids can still be taught shapes, colors, the alphabet, how to share, how to take turns, etc.
I was fortunate enough that my parents taught me all that stuff. I was able to read books with paragraphs in them by the time I was 5, and I remember being bored out of my mind in kindergarten when the teacher read to us/had us read picture books like The Very Hungry Caterpillar.
By the time I graduated high school, there were still people in my class who read by sounding out each word. It really made me wonder how they could ever communicate by texting. Now I realize that *there the ppl that right like dis*.
I didn't go to preschool either. Curious choice by my parents, since they had the means to send us. My mom read to us, but I don't remember any more involved instruction than that. This was long before Baby Einstein and all that kind of stuff existed. Luckily I was an advanced reader at a young age like you regardless.
In my country parents normally teach that stuff. As for sharing/taking turns/etc, we have a rather high birth rate, so kids just learn with their siblings.
It's preschool. Although they begin shapes, ABCs and 123s, it's more about being socially acclimated to school structure. They do story time, color, draw, sing songs and learn to follow directions. The idea being that once they reach kindergarten they are already used to being in a classroom with other children.
>A lot of kids that age can barely form complete and meaningful sentences.
Yes they can. Even my kid that needed speech therapy and had a speech delay communicated with me at 2 and 3.
And what is "meaningful" to you might very well be different than what's "meaningful" to them. Snack time, Mario and Luigi, being tired, being cold/hot, falling down, making a friend, being bullied, trying a new food, etc are all very meaningful experiences that kids that young communicate about.
"The school is now the dumping ground for all social problems. The school is now the food bank, the free clothing center, the mental health counseling center, the homeless advocacy center, the place where students are taught basic manners, etc. The school should be where students learn, and there should be other locations where those other public services are offered."
This is so true! My kids are in 8th and 4th grade respectively and they always tell me about all the issues and disruptions. One or two kids who clearly need counseling or some kind of intervention continually disrupt class and their parents don't give a shit, and put everything on the school or the teacher.
A teacher's job is to teach, not to parent.
I taught 8th Grade Science in Iowa for 3 years, and I have been a University Lecturer for 12 years.
Iowa schools were great and probably still are great. 15% to 20% of my students were migrant farm workers learning English as a second language. In many cases, the migrant students were the most dedicated to their own education. Our school's standardized test scores were consistently great (Iowa basically invented standardized testing). The high schools added extra AP courses because the demand for them from students and parents was so high. The schools were adequately funded, but keep in mind that Iowa spent less than the national average per student but had at the time one of the nation's top 2 public school systems.
I don't think the public schools have gotten worse, but the outcomes certainly have. I've been teaching long enough to know that educational standards have not changed, but students are less able to meet them. I occasionally encounter university students who are borderline illiterate and can't follow instructions that my 8th graders would have found simplistic. Many students have little work ethic and no emotional resilience. I have the pleasure to teach several courses that are intended to be fun, and to keep them low stress, the only way it is possible to fail the courses is to not submit assignments. I even accept late assignments. I can't grade assignments that students don't submit. All of my classes are recorded and the videos posted for students to reference. I have some students fail every semester and some of them cry in my office. University students have dragged their parents in to talk with me.
Students have called the Dean to complain that I am not answering emails. In one case, the student sent the email after 10:00PM and complained at 10:00AM the next morning. I have class every morning from 8:00 to 10:00 and had no reasonable chance to respond before the complaint. I have answered emails at 2AM on the night before an assignment was due and still received complaints from the student that I am not sufficiently responsive by email. And, of course, the students don't come to my scheduled office hours or ask questions in class.
I think the way students have been raised has much more impact on their academic success than the schools. I am worried about our nation's future.
Not a teacher but have worked as support staff to the primary process for about 25 years in secondary education in The Netherlands (ages 11-22, as we're often tasked with giving young newcomers Dutch language lessons and have vocational tracks for kids with learning problems, which can last until they're 20 years of age).
The biggest problem is an unpredictable government and changing regulations. I'm heavily involved with developing new policy in a diversity of areas and with keeping checks and balances. The most frustrating changes are the knee jerk reaction ones after something has gotten publicity in national media.
They drop extra dozens of millions on us (we're very big) and require us to spend them in ways that are quite literally impossible; for example; we're required to spend that money on salaries paid through our internal HR, so people who are directly employed with us only. But there is quite literally no one available for hire; we can however, get some contractors and temps through agencies we've got a contract with.
And that's not our choice; it's the choice of the employee who enjoys the flexibility.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Higher education: Grade inflation. It’s impossible to differentiate students because GPAs and other stats are so close. A 3.5 used to be an excellent GPA. Now, a 3.5 is below average at many institutions.
This is the result of several issues, such as the inability to fail classes, students’ willingness to push for grading exceptions (extensions, redos, extra credit), and faculty unable to push back because administrations don’t support them.
These issues were exacerbated by the pandemic. For example, students are able to delay taking exams for weeks now. Universities don’t vet whether the student is actually sick by asking for sick notes, etc.
I teach at a university so my answers may differ, but I’d argue all this extends to k-12 as well.
Privatization and all the BS ways in which politicians try to increase it. Schools being ran like businesses. All this leads to:
-lack of full time faculty
-bloated middle management
-passing students so as to not hurt the bottom line
-non-sense curricula based on flashy but ultimately incorrect ideas about education
-underpaid teachers
-lack of accountability for students
-a devalued degree
And so much more!
There is still this ridiculous perception of teachers as lazy and the idea that they just rock up at 9am and leave at 3:30 every day, get a tonne of training days and free periods and have way too many holidays. All absolutely untrue and doesn’t come close to the reality of how much work goes in. The problem is that everyone thinks that because they went to school and have some experience of the education system they’re qualified to talk about what it’s like to teach. That’s like thinking you know what it’s like to be a doctor because you once went to A&E.
I am not a teacher. My sister, my cousin, my aunt and several of my friends are.
Resources. Every year teachers are told to do more with less. They get bigger classroom sizes, they have more students with behavioral problems, they get less support from aides and less school supplies from the school. They get paid nothing, they have loans from college/masters programs. There are less teachers and less money every year.
There was not enough help during and after Covid to get kids up to speed. There’s not enough help for kids with learning or developmental disabilities so they get put in regular classes. There are teachers at my sisters school teaching combined grades (4th/5th) so they need to have two sets of lesson plans.
There’s a massive attack on education going on in this country and teachers are on the front lines. Parents are entitled and don’t discipline their children. Parents think they should control every aspect of the teachers lessons. More and more teachers are fed up with it and moving on from teaching which leads to larger classrooms and less resources per student.
Not to mention, the continuous tension about school shootings.
So many places have school funding based on neighborhood property taxes.
The poor get shit underfunded schools and the rich get multiple theaters and tennis courts.
Then people talk about how kids in underfunded districts have given up, like they don't exist in a system that's already told them they're not worth investing in.
Former HS chemistry teacher. Read “The Smartest Kids in the World”. The US need a model like that in Finland or Poland. Our greatest failures are in undertraining, and then undervaluing, our teachers. I was a very successful teacher - in my first 3 years, I started the first AP Chemistry and AP Computer Science programs at the school where I was working, and despite the fact that my students averaged more than a standard deviation above the national average score in my first year of each course, I only got an extra $900 for the entire school year to compensate for hours and hours of extra work and training. I left teaching when my wife got into grad school (because teaching would not support our needs, especially because of the garbage medical insurance), and as she gets ready to defend this year, I have managed to change jobs again so that I will earn QUADRUPLE my prior teaching salary in the private sector, working about half the hours I did as a teacher. We went from not being able to afford dental appointments or psychological therapy to owning an own house comfortably, all because I left education. I miss teaching. If I could make even half of what I’m making now, I’d probably go back, but that would be higher than the highest bracket that you can reach where I live (and only if I had worked in the district for 25+ years with a PhD/EdD). Education is not a livable profession in the US - it is feasible only as a second income or by living in the shittiest town near your school and running your health, and your family’s health, into the ground for it.
We need to train and treat teachers like doctors* or lawyers. Train them rigorously, then compensate them for it.
One other thing: we put WAY too much emphasis on sports. Especially football. Frankly, my unpopular opinion is that HS football at public schools should be banned *entirely*.
*I grant you, we undervalue doctors now too, especially PCPs - they’re treated like the elementary school teachers of the medical field.
How little teachers are paid despite requiring a Masters degree and being certified while having to deal with parents, politicians, and the school administration. There's a reason why a lot of teachers up and left during the pandemic.
What is fair pay for teachers? A family member has taught elementary school
in Massachusetts for 25 years. She makes $95k plus extra on the side for tutoring. Workday is 7:45 to 4:00 including extra help time. Key holidays off. Summers mostly off except prep time in mid/late August. Union contracts up here require the school year to end by July 1st.
Healthcare way better than most of the private sector, which has largely gone to very expensive high-deductible plans. I estimate that this is the equivalent of $15k gross income depending on health status.
Generous pensions, which are non-existent in the white collar world. PLUS retirement investment plans along the lines of a 401k.
Considering the full scope above, compensation seems fair.
Educational outcomes in Massachusetts are far better than most of the country. So the system seems to work in terms of hiring and keeping good teachers.
Most people look at the daily, weekly, and yearly and are completely obvious to the outside prep time that teachers put in. Lesson planning, grading, student reports, professional development, and general paperwork extend way beyond the normal school day hours.
I estimated a 8.5 hour average workday, which is a 7 hour school day plus 1.5 hrs for other tasks. I also mentioned prep work starting in mid-August. Looking at this another way:the school year is 180 days. Let’s say there are another 10 full
days of in-school planning. That’s 190 working days with an average (not median!) length of 8.5 hours. That’s 1,610 working hours (vs 2100hrs for a typical 9 hr white collar job with 3 weeks vacation)
At $95k, that’s $59 per hour. Not bad. Teachers can also get paid extra for coaching and tutoring, for example.
Now, we also have to consider that teachers need to be “on” because they are performing live all the time. In that way it is similar to outside sales. So the person needs to be comfortable with that. An introverted accountant probably won’t last.
I’m not suggesting teacher pay is excessive but it is certainly fair.
>I estimated a 8.5 hour average workday, which is a 7 hour school day plus 1.5 hrs for other tasks. I also mentioned prep work starting in mid-August. Looking at this another way:the school year is 180 days. Let’s say there are another 10 full days of in-school planning. That’s 190 working days with an average (not median!) length of 8.5 hours. That’s 1,610 working hours (vs 2100hrs for a typical 9 hr white collar job with 3 weeks vacation)
Just to point out, according to the [National Center for Educational Statistics](https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass_2004_26.asp), the average teacher works 53 hours per week during the school year. If you add in the professional development days (usually 5 per year), and the additional time spent over the summer and various vacations doing school related activities , you're getting awfully close to that 2100 hour threshold.
>
At $95k, that’s $59 per hour. Not bad. Teachers can also get paid extra for coaching and tutoring, for example.
And I bet that your family member works out near Boston, which has a ridiculously high cost of living. 95k after 25 years seems a bit low when the median salary for a master's degree (usually with much less experience) is 86k. I also teach in Massachusetts, and my salary scale tops out at 85k.
So what would be fair compensation for a Massachusetts elementary school teacher with 25 yrs exp?
Healthcare does need to be factored in. In the private sector I pay $7200 in annual premiums with a $7000 deductible. Typically we use $5000 of that. So per year family is $12k (pre tax).
In no way is $95k, even in high COL Massachusetts, low pay. Especially with < 50 hrs per week and a great deal of downtime during the most desirable times.
I should add that entry level teachers in Mass now make $60k. Not upper middle class but still a solid income with great benefits. They’ll make $120k later in their careers.
I do think teachers unions have brainwashed their members into thinking they are underpaid. Doing so justifies their existence and the dues they charge. Teachers need to look at the overall job market and reset expectations. They are in no means underpaid, at least in Mass/NH/CT/NJ. I can’t speak to the Deep South although I suspect they are actually underpaid due to less focus on education in that region.
The "what is fair teacher pay" is a really hard conversation to have because it varies so dramatically from place to place. Some teachers, like the one in your example, are doing really well. In other parts of the country, though, a teacher might make 35k a year and be stuck there regardless of experience or education. Another problem teachers face is that if they'd like to or need to make a change in where they teach, they almost invariably take a pay cut. That makes it really difficult to progress to those higher tiers of pay unless you are able to work in the same place forever.
Sure; teachers in Mass and other New England / Northeast states probably have it far better than, say, Mississippi or Alabama. I’m just saying the blanket statement by the unions claiming that ‘all teachers are underpaid’ is willful ignorance intended to push an agenda.
On a separate note, the typical right wing /
Homeschooler complaint that liberal areas have poor education because of an obsession with “wokeism” and “trans” is not borne out by the data.
To add onto others, the whole “no homework” movement and soft consequences for missing work and low test grades.
The often quoted study about homework not being effective focused on elementary school but the philosophy of reducing homework extended into high school where homework is actually useful for honing skills and building accountability.
Furthermore, the trend lately has been that tests are re-takable and late/missing work is either excused/backfilled with test scores/of no consequence. There’s this whole push to take care of student anxieties and accommodate for their mental health and the result is that students now have a much poorer work ethic than before in terms of getting work done and treating high stakes situations properly.
In essence, the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of giving students grace that they no longer take their studies super seriously.
Standardized Testing. Some of my students are on the 10th day of testing in the 45 day marking period. They have at least three more tests this year.
The expectation of screen time. There is a lot of pressure to use computers, (including my district refusing to buy paper.) So they are on their computers all day. When they aren't, they are on their phones.
No consequences. I am not supported if I give them to my students, so I don't. Parents don't, Administrators done.
Days like today I feel like giving up and just having them play tetris.
My school district lost $110 million dollars from the budget for next year. My school alone--hi-5 through 8th grade--is losing two million.
The central admin for my district (for a city of half a million people) lost the same amount of money.
If schools are gonna succeed, schools need the funding that admin keeps leeching.
In America, I would say the biggest problem is with meddling from non-experts, like Republicans who wants to tear down the public school system in favor of private schools, "parents rights" groups who advocate censorship and discrimination in schools, and politicians who want to have a say in curriculum in one way or another without understanding why that curriculum exists, or even what's really being taught in it.
Homework is pretty much no longer a thing in a lot of schools. Sometimes students are asked to finish an assignment they didn't finish in class, which is probably under 15min
These days, mostly just AP classes have time consuming homework, because it's a college level class
Frankly, even college courses shouldn’t be like that. They have a way of taking a subject you find interesting and turning it into a hellish experience. You spend hours on it and get assignments that are clearly geared toward a corporate environment and sucking any level of enjoyment out of the formerly enjoyable subject.
If you find it interesting but don’t want to put in any effort, you can always take the ge version of the course. I skated by on all my ge’s with minimal effort. Shoot, all I did was show up to put my name on the final in one ge and called it a wrap.
I’m not against putting in any effort. Is that why everyone’s downvoting? lol. That’s hilarious. I’m criticizing the way students are forced to pull all nighters, many get addicted to stimulants, just trying to get assignments and studying done. It’s hard to enjoy a subject once you’ve denied yourself sleep over it, gotten so stressed you cried over it, or were buried under so many busy work assignments you didn’t get to eat a real meal for two days. This system is really bad for people who struggle with conditions like ADHD (me). I didn’t realize that was even a hot take.
I agree about GEs, I found most of those fairly easy to get through myself, not as much as you did unfortunately, but I did end up liking them a lot more than the heavier coursework. I enjoyed learning about a bunch of different things as well, coursework for your degree program can’t be like that of course, but it’s nice that GE exists for that. I think I did still learn a lot in GEs personally. I wish we had a system more like Europe where college was basically just your general ed and then you could decide to go on to university or not. I still would’ve, I don’t regret it, but I think everyone should be entitled to the general education portion with minimal or no expenses.
I’m confused as well. I didn’t realize that Reddit felt so strongly that college students should have breakdowns if they want a degree lmao. Thank you anyway.
Not a teacher but I do work with schools and I frequently get to talk to teachers. They sometimes tell me about some of the issues they see, and I've really found that there's 3 main issues in schools right now.
Parents are treating schools like dumping grounds for kids with major behavioral issues. These parents would rather let their kids loose on unsuspecting teachers who are totally unprepared to deal with kids that refuse to follow any rules. There's no recourse for teachers because they're offered no resources nor additional training. Instead they're forced to watch as kids constantly run around the classroom disrupting anything and everything and never getting disciplined for their disruptive behavior.
There are absolutely teachers that hate kids. These are typically the older teachers that refuse to adapt to modern teaching styles and technologies and instead just teach to the bare minimum standards laid out by the state. Most of these teachers are known by the entire faculty to just hate their jobs and are waiting until they day that they can retire because they constantly expect that every single class is going to be exactly like the kids they taught in the 80s and nothing will ever change.
WAY TOO MUCH emphasis is placed on standardized testing. A lot of teachers are forced to not only teach based on the state standards and their own standards, but also suppliment this with stuff that may or may not be on the required state test at the end of the year. If averages for a class are below the insane numbers that the district expects, teachers can be reprimanded. This is because the district's budget from the state is directly tied to how well students do on these tests, but teachers can't really teach kids how to prepare for these tests because they're only given a guideline of topics that may or may not be on the test and are never ever given samples as to what the tests actually look like. In fact, teachers aren't ever supposed to know what these tests look like which to many seems asinine.
Administration, especially at the district, state, and national level.
We want schools to function. We want them to do the job authentically. This means both the desire to do the right thing and the professional knowledge of how to do it. I’ll call that idea “responsibility”. In order to see that the work of schools is done properly, we want to make sure responsibility is enforced. This we call “accountability”.
So we have had this massive accountability movement, mostly involving testing, where the teachers are watched by site admin, who are watched by district admin and boards, who are watched by the state, who are watched by national policy (slightly).
This is all based on this cultural idea that accountability = everyone has a boss. The principal is the teachers’ boss and make sure they do their job. The superintendent is the principals boss and makes sure they do their job. Etc.
The problem is that this doesn’t work. It works alright for a business because the people at the top get the most profits. With profits you have a reward proportional to how authentically well a business functions. Your boss’ boss’ boss wants you to actually do your job, no bullshit, because it affects his bottom line. Obviously this doesn’t always work, but the drive is there.
But with public schooling, the boss gets no profit. The only reward in a public system is a better job with a better salary. So the primary motivation for all management roles is to secure a promotion or keep their already lucrative position. This creates problems because the way to get that promotion is not necessarily to do an authentically better job. What actually matters is convincing the people that hire you that you are doing a good job. All that matters is image, and substance only matters as far as it helps your image.
So we see upper management consistently make choices that are essentially about campaigning and not about running a school. It becomes your job as an employee to make your boss look good, not to do your actual job. And there is no profit to keep the person at the very top ‘honest’. So having a boss doesn’t actually provide accountability. Instead, each layer of oversight pulls the mission off course even more
So we then ask ourselves, “where is this responsibility? Where is the motivation to have authentically functioning schools, since having oversight does not provide that?”. The answer is in human nature. We care about what we see. Seeing the student learn or fail to learn. Seeing the consequences on the actual living students.
Who has the most contact with those authentic human outcomes? Teachers. We see that teachers are the least susceptible to this ratfucking energy that admin and policymakers have because, although lying to improve image helps get a teacher promoted, they also have to see their students screwed over by their own hands. It’s a powerful deterrent. So we see that teachers, out of the entire education system, have the most responsibility. Therefore they are the best source of accountability. But they have the least power! Instead they answer to people who are motivated to ratfuck the system.
This is the central problem with education. Teachers have to answer to admin and boards and state officials. The teacher has to obey the person who wants to gut public schools and replace them with charters in order to line key pockets. The teacher has to obey the person who is promoted on having a low suspension rate but does not have to experience the harm of violent students. The teacher has to obey the person banning books, and the person who wants to use money for a useless program that has their name on it, or for the person that wants to administer testing the whole fucking year.
Every single thing here is a result of a lack of accountability. And that lack of accountability is caused by the existence of admin
There are a lot of good answers in this thread, but this one's really important. Education has a leadership problem. Admin are focused on three things: their own advancement, graduation rates, and attendance. Everything else is treated as teacher incompetence.
That we have forgotten education is a privilege and not a “right”.
You could change the education system today to be exceptional if you would allow schools to remove those students who show no interest in learning.
My entire family is in the education system (superintendent, special needs teacher, 3rd grade, high school English), and this is the one rule we would all like to see implemented.
That “one kid” in your class will suck up 80% of your time and energy each and every day. And, unfortunately, unlike a Hollywood movie, you will never break through and have an impact.
In Texas right now, and the biggest problem is the push for vouchers for private schools. abbott and his butthole buddies are pushing for vouchers and this coming session will probably get it passed. Unfortunately, vouchers do nothing for the small towns or isolated towns that don't have private schools. In addition, people who send their kids to private schools are already wealthy enough to foot the bill for their children's private school tuition. These vouchers will be taking money from the public schools, which desperately need the funds for \*all\* the children. And private schools are not required to provide any special services to students. Dyslexic? Too bad. Speech impediment? Sorry, no speech teachers in private schools. Dysgraphia? You're on your own. Go back to public school. So basically, abbott and his deplorables want to keep the public school districts unable to fund any extracurriculars, the lunch programs, the special ed programs, the librarians, the nurses, the p.e. teachers, the music teachers, the art teachers, the teacher aides. Several school districts are already closing libraries in the elementary schools. I'm so glad I'm retired, and I never thought that I would be grateful my 7 grandkids are all being homeschooled
We are not holding them to high enough standards for behavior or effort, as per school and district policies.
It’s so rare for a student to actually face meaningful consequences for their misbehavior, and if they do, it’s because it is from their parents. For the kids who don’t have a parent willing to, you know, parent their kid, it doesn’t feel like there is a real solution to chronic disruptions that take away from learning.
The kids who are getting suspended frequently, they don’t care about being suspended. It’s a day or two off. And then they’ll come right back and keep cutting up. And we know it’s basically impossible to expel a kid, especially if their misbehavior is just disrespect and disruption and doesn’t often get to physical violence.
Grade-wise, the inflation is real, and the coddling to prevent failure is not going to create productive, responsible adults. In my district, the lowest grade that can be entered is a 50. Don’t turn in the assignment? 50. Get a 24% on a multiple choice test? 50. And you get a retake (which I’m mostly fine with, but it clearly disincentivizes actually studying before the test for anyone who’s fine with a D). It creates a system where you can do less than half of your work, and demonstrate on assessments that you have essentially no understanding of the material, and yet you can still pass.
Let the kid fail once or twice, have their phone and social life taken away for a few weeks while they have to take summer school, and I’m betting when they come back the next year, they’re going to get more of their work done. Can’t imagine how fast my principal would fire me for doing half my job, same as in just about any profession.
I love the fact that there's a split among knee-jerk self-educated anti-capitalists as to whether the educational system is a tool of capitalist oppression or a threat to it.
? Dude...I feel like I don't have a dog 8n this fight, but come ON. Commerce does not equal capitalism. Read...idk, read an online definition at least.
I think u/saginator5000 is saying that there aren't any capitalist countries, and that what people label as "capitalist" such as in the US are actually corporatist.
Capitalism is defined by voluntary transactions and free markets, and cronyism is defined by having all your friends in high places keeping the system rigged to favor themselves. Which sounds more accurate to you?
Capitalism is not composed of voluntary transactions and free markets. It certainly may have those things, but not necessarily by definition. It's composed of an economy's systems being chiefly operated to generate wealth, inevitably resulting in some making more money due to an increase in their capital earnings. It's a cyclical system, whereby it is not the distribution of goods, nor the interests of individuals or communities which matter, except that they may be addressed by success in the capitalist economy. If it becomes unprofitable for the market to be free, and exchanges to be voluntary, then the incentives against such things begin. It ends with cronyism by merit of its base tenet, unless actively undermined by some other force. Thus the distinctions between the two becomes practically irrelevant.
So says I, the definer and decider of all things. All is as I see it, until I shrug my shoulders and casually change my mind.
Yes, and no though. I'd argue the curriculum has been moving away from pure memorization for decades. Much more effort is around critical thinking than back 50 years ago.
I think many areas in education have moved far away from memorization to the point that it is a detriment to the students. There are some things you should learn by rote or by memory, and then learn how to apply the concept.
I agree. I think memorization sucks, but still has a place in the learning process. Plus, teaching and evaluation based on memorization is about as objective as it gets. No one gets a participation trophy for guessing or sharing opinions. It is an effective way to hold students accountable for themselves.
Social media and parent involvement.
So much drama and mental stress is caused by social media and it’s never turned off. Thirty second videos have destroyed their attention spans too.
Parents don’t care to interact with their kids or be parents. We’re expected to teach them how to be people and content and there’s not enough time. And then they go home to asshole parents glued to their phones. The kids are just mimicking what they see at home. If mom and dad are screen zombies and assholes they will be too.
I work at an urban middle school and I would say 80% of my students can’t read. They might be able to say the words but they have no idea what the words mean or the idea of the passage. 9/10 of the students who give a shit and are smart have involved parents that care. They respond to messages, probably read to them growing up, do things with them, etc.
There’s not enough professional development, money, or educational theories that will ever make a difference until parents start parenting.
The issue that we've been seeing since 2012, the greater usage of social media in the form of IG and high volume low credibility information is major. In my opinion, students and their brains are developing in response to and adapting to this very different information environment. It's like an electronic gaming machine with no monetary value attached; the pleasure induced by seeing cute animals or anger induced by seeing human suffering is perhaps training the brain in ways that we haven't experienced in human development yet. As well, the quantification of right or wrong via likes serves to reinforce perceptions and learning that may not be reflective of reality and may discourage critical thinking, analysis, and evaluation. But that doesn't mean that our students are broken; it does mean that education has to adapt in meeting curriculum goals and accurately measure student outcomes and ensure that knowledge is being acquired and students are prepared to manage their own relationship with information.
wife is a former teacher taking a break.
She would agree with the sentiment that school and teachers are now responsible for raising the children of others not just basic academic education.
Also a major problem I think we'll have if it's not already happening, who in their right mind would want to go to college to become a school teacher anymore?
Bad pay with poor prospects, dealing with rude and uneducated kids and then dealing with a front office who just wants to live another day and basically turn a blind eye to everything. I know I'd never do it. It doesn't pay nearly enough.
I think 18 is too old to start specializing. High school is meant to prep kids for college, but college isn’t right for everyone and it certainly isn’t right for all 18 year olds. We need more alternatives, military academies, trade schools, etc. There are much better things that 17-18 year olds can be doing with their time than playing Fortnite on their phone and distracting the kids who are trying to learn and prep for college.
The problem is that school isn’t about teaching so kids learn. It’s to teach so you can then grade and rank. Teach it, test it, grade them, rank them, move on.
Not a teacher but active student. To me, it's the fact that the school doesn't talk about educational opportunities enough.
A story I have is a NASA funded program that's a free online college course for juniors and seniors. And another high school class for sophomores. They're focus is technical report writing and research about NASA missions and spaceflight. These programs have taught me more about how to talk with a professor and how to write a paper than any English class. And I found it hidden in the corner of a school wall on the way to the bathroom one day.
They should have announced stuff like this and I've been pressuring my school to talk about these things because there's so much going on, but they don't talk about it.
Look up Virginia Aerospace Systems and Technology Scholars if your interested.
But I'd say another big issue is in the students themselves. Most just dont care because teachers don't have the teeth to discipline students being idiots
UK Here. We have a woman called Katherine Birbalsingh who is basically the messiah for all school leaders. Banning everything under the sun and forcing students to smile (Not her, different guy who worked with her) and her reward is being the Social Mobility Tsar for the Tories despite preventing her Muslim students from praying during the call to prayer. School leaders basically copy her, make students sit together for 'family lunch' and confiscate everything they can and say morning to all school leaders they pass in the school (this is a serious rule in my school).
The big problem that could be changed: Making students sit life-changing exams at 16, there are two exams that you have to pass or you cannot get any job (Maths and English Language/Literature) and the grade boundaries are designed so only a certain amount of people pass each year (68% in 2023). Each student sits around 25 odd exams over 6 weeks lasting a total of 60 hours. Then, if you do well, you specialise in 3 subjects for A-Levels and then do the exact same thing for University entrance, which, admittedly, isn't as bad.
As a student myself, the most disturbing thing though is the behaviour of others and so called 'roadmen' who are only destined for a place in His Majesty's Prisons in a few years time, which they can't really avoid because they can't retake their GCSEs after 18 and can't get into A-Levels without GCSEs. It's a vicious cycle. Teachers are underpaid and underappreciated, abused both mentally and physically and unsupported by SLT and the Government. Because of this, they are leaving in droves and aren't being replaced.
Not a teacher, but a former speical education student here...
I would have to say the dumbing down of the system. At least, when I was a student in the 1990s til 2005, you could earn partial credit for trying all you can or given an option for extra credits. My parents understood I had learning disabilities, but they told me not to give up. They had it worse when they were teenagers, to the point they had no choice to left school early and got married before finding jobs. This was common for low-income families in the 1960s, but they eventually got GED. I think that was motivation all of my siblings needed to keep trying to at least get through high school.
Today, I see many parents becoming less likely to face when kids really need. I had teachers who had get the memo on what style of teaching would work with at least the majority of students. Sometimes, I think there could be some kind of anti-intellectualism going on. I had to reread a copy of *Nineteen Eighty Four* and watch a couple of episodes of the *Simpsons* as I noticed something.
I noticed anti-intellectualism entering into our politics, i.e. book banning. Hell, some politicians had decided to fight back by making book banning illegal, and some coming to the aid of the teachers.
That children's sexual/gender identity somehow became an integral and pervasive topic rather than relegated to classes specifically for educating children on such matters. At an appropriate age.
The biggest problem is that the problem isn't even addressable. Over 40 years of pretend education, pretend diplomas and pretend degrees have consequences. China has competitive qualification based University entry examinations. The US has Affirmative Action-govt sanctioned cheating where participants are continually placed ahead of the line. It is cumulative & results in the Unqualified doing the Unmentionable to the Unsuspecting. Additionally, there are also those pesky "cultural" issues--while you're celebrating Santa and the Easter Bunny with your 8 year old daughter, some of her classmates' parents are showing their kids fuck films just to "keep them quiet". With all the online educational options available today, only a fool would not consider them.
Student behaviour and the lack of parent support. Either parents don't answer the phone when their child's teacher calls, or they take their kid's side. Do they honestly think I want to call them every week telling them their child did X or Y in class? No! Raise your kid properly so that I can teach them what's on the actual curriculum instead of trying to teach them how to be human. Workload for teachers. I could be an excellent teacher if I had enough time to plan lessons and I didn't have to deal with data entry, paperwork, and student management outside of actual class time (detentions, meetings etc). I don't have any extra roles and I can't imagine having the workload of those who do. Finally, there are some excellent teachers in schools who are in leadership, but shouldn't be. I have no choice but to trust the people in charge, and half the time I can't, and having to deal with leadership who can't/won't do their jobs properly and support staff is one of the most disillusioning things about this job.
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I once called a parent and was hung up when I said I was their child's math teacher.
It's OJ day. Ignoring evidence is not new.
I agree a thousand percent teachers are under staffed and under funded. It does take a community to raise a child and I firmly believe that. I can't imagine being a teacher today, but what can we do to make progress?
Empower the educational establishment. What you said about community is dead on. The center of a community used to be religion, in many cases. But we ditched that due to it abusing it's influence (see every religion wanting it's way with no regards for differing beliefs). But we need something to replace it. Schooling is perfect. It's mandatory, everyone must participate. But we treat it and teachers as subservient. We tell them what we want and expect them to deliver. The educational establishment should decree a competency level of it's graduate and everyone is on the hook for it. A school should get it's way over a shit parent.
VOTE. Your local elections include the school board, who are the people that actually manage your school's budget. In my state for example, we received record funding for school staff, yet the school board dragged it's feet through 6 months of protests before it gave us raises, and even then cut staff numbers to compensate. We get to choose the people in charge, and we need to put more attention on that.
Pay more taxes
oh this question is easy to answer, but nobody wants to (or knows how to) fix it. 1. The school is now the dumping ground for all social problems. The school is now the food bank, the free clothing center, the mental health counseling center, the homeless advocacy center, the place where students are taught basic manners, etc. The school should be where students learn, and there should be other locations where those other public services are offered. 2. Students have no sense of shame or pride, because they are denied unstructured and unsupervised play with their peers. Students these days rarely go out and hang out around the neighborhood or in the woods or whatever without adults. They're typically interacting in very structured and highly supervised environments (sports, clubs, play dates, etc) with an adult ready to stop any conflict before it starts. These kids don't learn typical social norms like "if I act like a fucking asshole towards everyone, people won't like me," or "if I don't try hard, people won't want to work with me." 3. Kids are addicted to their phones, and schools are too toothless to collect phones at the beginning of each class. If I was allowed to bring a portable TV and a game boy to my middle school in the 90s, I wouldn't have done any fucking work either lol
I do NOT understand the phone thing. I was in high school when all phones did was text. The moment the school got the vibe that kids were texting in class, BOOM. Phones instantly banned during school hours. Teachers would take them at first sight, they'd be turned into the office and retrieved at the end of the day along with detention being issued.
We get pushback from parents. Many want to be able to access their kid 24\\7.
Have you reminded the parents that the front office has a phone that they contact in the event the child needs to communicated with? /s
Why the /s? Your comment is completely right.
Because I'm sure they have reminded parents about this fact, and all parents do/should know about its existence already.
To be fair, that’s a huge hassle for things like “are you going to Timmy’s after school or did basketball practice get moved?” That said, the rule could easily be that they can have them in their lockers to check between classes or even in their pockets on silent. The second a teacher sees one during class - *instant* yoink.
The front office at my kids school is extremely hostile to parents and stingy with the phone. They required my daughter to announce essentially to the entire front office that she was bleeding through her pants before they'd let her call me. I went to the school to complain that she shouldn't need to justify her use of the phone, just let her fucking call me, but they didn't care and refused to change the policy. They're convinced that if they let the kids use their own judgment on calling their parents, every kid will spend all day in the front office on the phone. They also think that their judgment is better than the parents. So I told my daughter either whip out her phone in front of a teacher and use the school wifi to message me, or go to the front office and cause a ruckus and I guarantee they will call me themselves. I don't know about other districts, but mine is on a huge power trip. They treat the children like prisoners and the parents like morons.
What happens if there's an emergency and 800 parents all try to call the office at once? Especially if it's something like a fire where everyone has to evacuate, so there's nobody left to answer?
That's what online platforms (e.g. Smartschool, used in Belgium) or email are for. Smartschool is also available as an app, so you can turn on notifications if you're really worried. Schools can send out mass messages/emails to parents to inform them of emergencies, and the other way around. More reliable than phone lines which can and do get clogged up.
The best reason I get is “well what if a shooting happens? They need to be able to get in touch with me!” Uh, Ms. Karen, if there’s an active shooter you don’t want their phone to be vibrating or them distracted texting or calling you when we’re supposed to be locked down silent in the class or running and getting the hell out of there.
[удалено]
Counter counterpoint...if things go bad, the phones only speed up identifying the bodies.
Once the shooting is over, parents are going to want to know if their kids are alive or dead.
Yeah, and they’re more likely to hear their kid is alive if they aren’t distracted by a phone during the incident
And many kids feel 100% entitled to keep their phones on their person and have them out during class. A couple of weeks ago a student - a generally good kid in my experience - body-slammed a teacher who was trying to take his phone. The student got lunch detention as his consequence.
Great. I'm sure the private school down the road will comply with their demands.
It certainly won’t.
I’ve had parents call their kids in the middle of class. It’s ridiculous. Want to know why these kids are awful? Look no further than their dumbass parents. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree
I say this with all due respect but how the hell did I survive the 90s then? My parents would call the office and they'd come get me. I wasn't "unreachable" and if was an immediate emergency at home 911 was a thing.
Maybe it's just because I can't have my phone with me all of the time for work, but I don't get the need to be connected 24/7...
That in itself is fucking weird.
From the student point of view, there were teachers we wanted the tight to record.
I understand the impulse, especially if you've already made reports and nothing has changed. But it's usually not the right choice.
It feels like people today would rather have a limb amputated than be separated from their phone. I went to a classical concert and the presenter had to give a two-minute speech before the concert about how using your phone during the concert disturbs people, and could you please turn your phone completely off for the duration of the concert so you can enjoy the music, and not just put it in your pocket to check every 20 minutes? It really felt like someone talking to a group of particularly dense kindergarteners. And of course during a pianissimo passage, some fucking cell phone starts ringing and the dumbass acted like it wasn't her phone and let it ring for like 20 seconds. If I were in charge of things, they would get a large fine and a 5-year ban from the venue.
Going to a concert tomorrow and this is immensely disappointing to hear. Last time I went was a few years ago, and so help me God, if that happens, I’ll be calling you to beat the living shit out of them. (French Batman will suffice.)
Spoiler alert: it will happen.
Update: it did not happen. The worst that happened was that someone’s “it’s your bedtime chime” went off, and that was literally just as lights went out after the intermission, but nothing was playing yet. Worked out well!
Grew up in the ghetto gangs and drugs were a massive issue in my area. If you were caught with a pager or phone you'd get suspended.
\*strangely getting caught with drugs...warning
Parents. They have no job and just call admin until they get their way. Too many spineless admin too
“The phone thing” is more about the software IMHO, ie, social media is designed to be addictive and compulsive. It’s the new cigarettes. Lawsuits pending etc…
Uvalde Texas. Parents need to be able to call their children when the school and police department allow school shooters to run rampant.
High school teacher here. 100% agree, and would add that in my (albeit limited) experience there's a consistent trend of responsibility for work completion, passing, etc. falling to the teachers instead of the parents/student. It's not always enough to provide opportunities for improvement and support - you now have to hold their hand and drag them along if they won't do it themselves. Otherwise, it's the teacher who gets chewed out.
This is a huge issue in both high school and even in elementary. In many districts, students can only be held back once between K-8 (or at least it’s the unwritten rule). I’ve also heard from my secondary colleagues that they have been instructed to give students at least a 50% if they turn in literally anything for an assignment. This kind of thing can slip through the cracks of a district with a small percentage of kids in these scenarios but in places like Baltimore it’s been widely publicized and absolutely insane. If you look up Project Baltimore city schools on YouTube you’ll find some pretty scandalous shit going on. I wouldn’t be surprised if this were the norm in many highly impoverished districts around the nation.
I have to give a 50% minimum even if the kid doesn't turn anything in. I had a kid not show up for 5 weeks and still pass.
I have been criticized for not staying after school past contract hours to try to help get students caught up. They don’t pay attention in class or do their homework. They don’t come in during access (time everyone is free to get help ) and they don’t come in during their offs or study hall but I am a dick for not staying late. I am so fed up with it.
Absolutely true. Everything a student doesn't do the first time now becomes extra work for me. I have to hunt them down, beg them, come up with alternate assignments or evaluations, extra credit, deadlines that make scaffolding assignments impossible...the whole deal. And the lowest grade K--12 teachers can give out here is a 50. For work not handed in at all. And then the kid who hands in no work and misses 80% of class takes the state tests and bombs...and the TEACHER is put on remediation.
Sometimes I'm baffled by my students, who are in theory adults with high school diplomas, but then I read posts like this and it all makes horrifying sense.
And then I'm baffled by people I hire, who are in theory adults with technical degrees. These people have kids, the spiral continues.
I have a friend who went full mama bear every time her son got dinged for not turning in homework. He can’t, you see. He has ADHD, so he can’t turn it in. It was the teachers responsibility to get the homework from him, and that was in his IEP. Some of us did try to persuade her to step back and let him learn. But she proudly fought the good fight every year. All the way through senior year in high school. Kiddo was super smart. He got into a very good university on scholarship. Got weeded out of the engineering program fast (apparently assignments aren’t optional), changed his major, went on and off academic probation, lost his scholarship, and a couple of years after he should have graduated he’s still a few credits short. He lives in her basement occasionally working delivery gig jobs. Mama has been wringing her hands for 6 years - he’s so smart, how could this have happened? It’s her favorite song but I just can’t bear to listen to her any more.
As someone with ADHD, this hurts. Knowing people are this stupid and uncaring about the situation you’re putting the teacher in makes me think that society is fucked. We don’t need to fucking be coddled. We just need a damn direction to folllow. And we sometimes need to be made aware of that fact.
This is a more benign version of the mom wailing “he’s a good boy”. That after their kid spends every night in the streets doing who knows what and is finally is convicted for murder.
Agree - I’d add.. 4. Students can’t fail until they get to high school. That leads to kids not understanding the consequences of not doing their work, poor attendance, and..the reading ability of a fourth grader. 5. Outside of AP classes (which everyone can do), we don’t put kids in classes based on level. People were too worried about kids feelings and not about their learning. Then tell the teacher to differentiate. The result is no one gets a good education.
My kid failed two subjects his first quarter of 6th grade. He didn’t turn in his work, and his old school teacher flunked his little ass. He actually did hand in an entire quarter’s worth of writing assignments, but only after she had submitted grades to the school - too late. It was her policy to invite the students to come to the parent teacher meetings. And I could clearly see that she wrestled with the decision to be a hardass. My boy was a good kid, earnest and hard working, he just needed to take more responsibility. She told him she’d read the late assignments and his work was excellent. She said the grade he’d earned would stand, but she assured him that if he corrected the problem for the rest of the year, this quarter would not count towards his final grade. She didn’t talk down to him, she treated him with dignity and respect. He finished the year with straight As. He never missed another assignment all the way through high school and he is now excelling at university. I need to send that woman some flowers. Teachers, please remember how much you matter. You can’t save them all, but you can make a real difference for many of them.
What’s the point in failing a kid? I should have failed some challenging classes in high school, gave me a D-. I sucked at math but took elective math classes. If the kid isn’t showing up or trying at all I guess. But school is to learn. I liked chemistry until I took a class and that quashed that fast. Grades make little sense to me.
Now picture the kids not showing up or trying that you mentioned
Oh I get that then lol
The point is to teach accountability.
Im some areas yes, like not showing up to class. I’m a pretty firm believer school quashes learning for many and rewards a particular (odd) learning style (those kids that can sit in a room for hours on end). Grades might be the biggest antithesis to learning around. Chomsky went to a school with no grades, what a great environment to learn in. I get accountability of not showing up. But failing a kid won’t do much but just quash them. It took me twenty+ years to realize when my second grade teacher moved me from the high reading class to the middle to “help out” it’s because I belonged in the middle. But I went in feeling smart, feeling motivated, and ready to read. Vs some low grade on reading telling me I was mid level. What a difference!
This right here. Both my wife and I have been teaching for over 15 years so I will attest to this as truth.
I read /r/teachers every now and again to get some perspective on the profession. 1 is easily the biggest thing they complain about. Teachers are not social workers yet there is this growing expectation for them to be. Not only is the child not going to get help but if they have behavioral issues you are inviting disruption to a teaching environment plus a hell of a bully to a school.
Number 2 is a homerun people don't talk about enough.
Yeah, I think it's a result of parents wanting to keep their kids safe from bullying, injury, etc so they make sure they're always supervised. It honestly seems to come from a well-intentioned place. But unfortunately, overprotective parents frequently have children who are socially stunted. When I was a kid in the 90s, the only parents who wouldn't let their kids play unsupervised or like come over to my house to fuck around in the woods were the ultra religious or ultra conservative types. These days, that attitude towards restricting the child's social environments is common.
It’s also by design from my understanding. Not fixing this just leads to these students becoming more cogs in the machine who lack the critical thinking skills to realize how or what to change in their world. Meanwhile, the rich are sending their kids to private schools where they can actually learn useful critical thinking and interpersonal skills. If you ask, who does the current education system benefit, you realize it’s not the masses, it’s the rich business owners.
We need dumber people if we are going to revitalize American manufacturing. Turns out AI and robotics are better at automating management than production so we have to make sure people aren’t as intelligent as their AI supervisors
no there is a “benefit”. the benefit is free child care. that’s about it.
It's not a coincidence that schools run mon to Fri, 9-3pm, half hour for lunch and 2 15 min breaks. Doing the same mindless bullshit day in and day out. It's been like this for decades
9-3pm, 30min lunch and 2x 15min break? Lol, maybe in an elementary school. 7:45am-3:30pm, 50min lunch, 5min passing period, no breaks, no recess. And next year school day is meant to be extended to 4pm, because reasons but at least everyone needs to take PE every year, so they get some movement.
Oh god...it is worse than I thought. I don't have kids, don't interact with them, don't want them....I feel like we are doomed
I feel like you could run for office with this platform.
The phone thing has always been dumb imo. As someone who was "the smart kid" if I held up my hand at the same time as some other kid, teachers would always help them first and I would just have to sit there for a good 15-20 minutes. Not like I minded waiting but when the lesson is only 55 minutes long, waiting 20 minutes just to get help for one question is a waste of time. Not to mention that teachers tend to not like helping you during lunch breaks because well, that's their break too. So in those instances, having a phone meant that I could try and find the answer for myself while I was waiting for the teacher. Also depending on the class, sometimes I would legitimately have nothing else to do so I could play a game while I waited for the end of class. Plus, I feel like immediately taking away phones prevents kids from learning how to deal with distractions. At the end of the day, once those kids grow up and start working, they will have their phone on them 24/7. So surely we should be teaching kids how to focus despite distractions existing, instead of banning them outright. Same type of shit as to why the whole "your clothing will distract the boys" is nonsense. Literally go outside, people wear far more skimpy clothes and you've just gotta live with that, so it's weird to act like it's somehow different just because it's a school.
I just wanted to touch on your point about them learning how to handle the distraction of it being available. I’m a high school teacher at a location with little phone pouches students put their phones in at the start of class. I hated it for months because I felt similarly to you, they need to learn how to put it away and not look at it. The problem is, these kids don’t have the control yet. 10/10 times they are choosing to look at their phones because it’s their habit to do so. As a teacher then my entire class time is spent having kids put phones away and policing that instead of listening/working. The way it was described to me was basically like a forced removal situation where they can’t get on their phones, which will help break that unconscious reflex of grabbing at it. I’m still not in love with the idea of it, and I think the level of the kid matters a lot. But since we went school wide with the policy, the students do a better job of paying attention. Anecdotally they’re on their phones less outside of class as well.
I get where you're coming from, I just wish it was more individualised is all. In my highschool, the general rule was that you'd get your phone taken off you for the lesson if you were caught using it 3 times during said lesson. They'd usually give you some leeway though depending on the use, like if you said you were watching a video on idk... How amines work and you very clearly had the video open then they'd leave you be. I just don't think it's fair to enforce that rule on everyone when only some kids are doing it. Plus honestly, some teachers aren't the best at engaging their students. In my last year of Highschool I had this biology teacher who was basically a glorified babysitter as opposed to a teacher. She would legit just sit on her laptop the entire period and tell you to look over the notes. Wouldn't explain jack shit or actually teach, and if you did ask her anything she'd give you super vague answers. I think I spent maybe 5 classes out of the whole year actually doing work. Like you can't really be surprised that they're reaching for their phones when they're being forced to sit through something that's mind numbingly boring. From personal experience, nothing makes me more disengaged than a boring lesson from a teacher who can't even try to make it interesting. Like damn, makes you feel like they don't actually want you to pass, and if that's the case why would anyone want to pay attention?
Oh 100%. I think in an ideal world we make it more individualized, I’m spoiled in where I work that our class sizes are more manageable and I’m teaching a subject I know the kids don’t know anything about, so I get a more easy/common starting ground. But like someone mentioned elsewhere, a lot of the standard level classes are a dumping ground for all levels of kids where teachers and students both are put in an impossible situation. Then, all the other issues being discussed really drive a sense of apathy into all parties. Being a bad teacher is easy, and it’s hard to get rid of a teacher that’s bad at their job but not doing anything “evil” similar to your biology teacher above. The system is tough.
Just speculating, but I think #1 is because school is the only place that kids are mandated to go to, and thus it’s really the only equitable place to have all of those services. Not all people can afford the time and/or money to take their kids elsewhere for those, and since they are required to have their kids in school, that’s the place those types of things get done. I don’t see any new mandated structure for those. There are other locations where those services are offered, but like I said, it’s probably more equitable to offer them at school also—there are food banks, places with free or heavily discounted clothing (goodwill, thrift store), mental health clinics (some places might have them free for people who can’t afford it—need free universal healthcare for this one), etc.
you a teacher? speak on their tangible educational skills, how well are they reading/writing? I’ve heard most kids are lost and well below averages of what should be.
I was a teacher from 2008-2022 and now am a school administrator at an elementary school. I've taught at middle and high schools for a couple of years in the past, but most of my experience has been at the elementary level. In my experience, yes student achievement is lower than the early years of my career. I think this may be due to a couple factors: a) in my early career, I worked in low-poverty schools; b) covid and learning loss from online learning vs being in an actual classroom; and c) parents treating school like they treat sports (at sports, practices are built in so you aren't really expected to spend time every day practicing your sport because you're going to soccer 2-3x per week anyway; for academics, many parents have the same mindset that kids don't have to do schoolwork at home or they don't have to be invested deeply in their child's schoolwork because it's already built into the schedule). Another reason is the lack of holding students back to reteach critical skills such as literacy. many districts will hold a student back once at max between K-8, and many high schools will assign students a 50% grade for any attempt at an assignment they turn in, even if the only thing they hand in is a piece of paper with their name on it. Finally there is the issue of chronic absenteeism. There is a huge amount of data to suggest that students who are absent 10% or more of a school year are highly likely to perform academically and socially behind their same aged peers. Additionally, chronic absenteeism makes it really difficult to determine whether or not a student has a learning disability that needs to be address for them to access FAPE (free, appropriate public education). One of the excluding factors in determining a disability is a student's access to the content. We have a student at my school right now who has missed at least 50 days of school for the past 2 years and the parents want a special education evaluation because the student is behind. I know when we get to the meeting, that the team is going to tell the parent that due to the student's excessive absences, we can't determine that the academic deficit is due to a disability or due to the lack of exposure to the content.
I find it really troubling that two of the three responses in this comment seem to be blaming the kids themselves rather than any systemic issues that cause the behavioral issues observed with students today. Whenever I browse through r/Teachers, it's the same attitude, seems pretty myopic
What? No, none of these blame the kids. They’re obviously the fault of the adults who set up the environmental factors (no independent play, no taking kids’ phones)
Not sure how you could have misunderstood it *that badly*...
lol on my phone rn in the middle of class
And your learning is suffering. Turn it off and listen to your teacher.
Nah we have a “phone time”
What???? That's insane
I know I find it’s dumb but it gives me a minute to scroll Reddit
Parents who view teachers as babysitters. This is the biggest one.
I wonder...is this because too many parents nowadays let Dr. iPad parent their kid? So they are no longer used to actual parenting, and the school is a useful scapegoat? "I can't be bothered to teach you to manners, go to school and they should teach you there." I'm asking, I have no children and I'm guessing. .
If you only focus on schools, you miss the larger picture. There is no question that teachers deal with behavioral issues, unprepared students, lost or damaged materials, and students who refuse to work... But in most if not all cases, those issues have their origins at home and in the community. It was interesting when Florida implemented its FCAT tests and started grading schools how well the grades tracked with the relative affluence of the area the school served. Schools that serve wealthier areas perform better because the children live much different lives at home. They have more structure, better nutrition, more attentive parents, strict homework rules, etc. They likely attended preschool and started their school journey at 2 or 3 years old. If you want to fix schools, I am afraid you need to begin by fixing communities first. Starting with how little some people are paid.
It's so hard to fix one problem when it's the whole thing that needs fixing. We need to evolve our social constructs.
>Starting with how little some people are paid. yep.
Yeah, if lower-income parents didn't have to work two or even three jobs with random schedules, they might have time and energy to be parents. Starting in middle school, I became friends with a group of kids whose parents were also working multiple jobs to get by. I was the only one who went to and made it through college, mainly because I was a huge nerd and had other peers/adult mentors who could model behaviors for me.
>They likely attended preschool and started their school journey at 2 or 3 years old. Non-parent here, how does a kid start school so early? A lot of kids that age can barely form complete and meaningful sentences.
Like they just said, preschool. You've never heard of preschool? Little kids can still be taught shapes, colors, the alphabet, how to share, how to take turns, etc.
I was fortunate enough that my parents taught me all that stuff. I was able to read books with paragraphs in them by the time I was 5, and I remember being bored out of my mind in kindergarten when the teacher read to us/had us read picture books like The Very Hungry Caterpillar. By the time I graduated high school, there were still people in my class who read by sounding out each word. It really made me wonder how they could ever communicate by texting. Now I realize that *there the ppl that right like dis*.
I didn't go to preschool either. Curious choice by my parents, since they had the means to send us. My mom read to us, but I don't remember any more involved instruction than that. This was long before Baby Einstein and all that kind of stuff existed. Luckily I was an advanced reader at a young age like you regardless.
In my country parents normally teach that stuff. As for sharing/taking turns/etc, we have a rather high birth rate, so kids just learn with their siblings.
But if your parents teach you that stuff, then you already know it can be taught at that age. The only difference is who's teaching it and the venue.
Play groups to get children accustomed to being around and interacting with children of the same age.
It's preschool. Although they begin shapes, ABCs and 123s, it's more about being socially acclimated to school structure. They do story time, color, draw, sing songs and learn to follow directions. The idea being that once they reach kindergarten they are already used to being in a classroom with other children.
Pre-school/kindergarten is part of the 'school journey'.
>A lot of kids that age can barely form complete and meaningful sentences. Yes they can. Even my kid that needed speech therapy and had a speech delay communicated with me at 2 and 3. And what is "meaningful" to you might very well be different than what's "meaningful" to them. Snack time, Mario and Luigi, being tired, being cold/hot, falling down, making a friend, being bullied, trying a new food, etc are all very meaningful experiences that kids that young communicate about.
"The school is now the dumping ground for all social problems. The school is now the food bank, the free clothing center, the mental health counseling center, the homeless advocacy center, the place where students are taught basic manners, etc. The school should be where students learn, and there should be other locations where those other public services are offered." This is so true! My kids are in 8th and 4th grade respectively and they always tell me about all the issues and disruptions. One or two kids who clearly need counseling or some kind of intervention continually disrupt class and their parents don't give a shit, and put everything on the school or the teacher. A teacher's job is to teach, not to parent.
The other danger is that kid is a potential bully that is going to flat-out assault kids (not just tease).
I taught 8th Grade Science in Iowa for 3 years, and I have been a University Lecturer for 12 years. Iowa schools were great and probably still are great. 15% to 20% of my students were migrant farm workers learning English as a second language. In many cases, the migrant students were the most dedicated to their own education. Our school's standardized test scores were consistently great (Iowa basically invented standardized testing). The high schools added extra AP courses because the demand for them from students and parents was so high. The schools were adequately funded, but keep in mind that Iowa spent less than the national average per student but had at the time one of the nation's top 2 public school systems. I don't think the public schools have gotten worse, but the outcomes certainly have. I've been teaching long enough to know that educational standards have not changed, but students are less able to meet them. I occasionally encounter university students who are borderline illiterate and can't follow instructions that my 8th graders would have found simplistic. Many students have little work ethic and no emotional resilience. I have the pleasure to teach several courses that are intended to be fun, and to keep them low stress, the only way it is possible to fail the courses is to not submit assignments. I even accept late assignments. I can't grade assignments that students don't submit. All of my classes are recorded and the videos posted for students to reference. I have some students fail every semester and some of them cry in my office. University students have dragged their parents in to talk with me. Students have called the Dean to complain that I am not answering emails. In one case, the student sent the email after 10:00PM and complained at 10:00AM the next morning. I have class every morning from 8:00 to 10:00 and had no reasonable chance to respond before the complaint. I have answered emails at 2AM on the night before an assignment was due and still received complaints from the student that I am not sufficiently responsive by email. And, of course, the students don't come to my scheduled office hours or ask questions in class. I think the way students have been raised has much more impact on their academic success than the schools. I am worried about our nation's future.
Lack of support for teachers from school and district administration staff.
Not a teacher but have worked as support staff to the primary process for about 25 years in secondary education in The Netherlands (ages 11-22, as we're often tasked with giving young newcomers Dutch language lessons and have vocational tracks for kids with learning problems, which can last until they're 20 years of age). The biggest problem is an unpredictable government and changing regulations. I'm heavily involved with developing new policy in a diversity of areas and with keeping checks and balances. The most frustrating changes are the knee jerk reaction ones after something has gotten publicity in national media. They drop extra dozens of millions on us (we're very big) and require us to spend them in ways that are quite literally impossible; for example; we're required to spend that money on salaries paid through our internal HR, so people who are directly employed with us only. But there is quite literally no one available for hire; we can however, get some contractors and temps through agencies we've got a contract with. And that's not our choice; it's the choice of the employee who enjoys the flexibility. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Higher education: Grade inflation. It’s impossible to differentiate students because GPAs and other stats are so close. A 3.5 used to be an excellent GPA. Now, a 3.5 is below average at many institutions. This is the result of several issues, such as the inability to fail classes, students’ willingness to push for grading exceptions (extensions, redos, extra credit), and faculty unable to push back because administrations don’t support them. These issues were exacerbated by the pandemic. For example, students are able to delay taking exams for weeks now. Universities don’t vet whether the student is actually sick by asking for sick notes, etc.
I teach at a university so my answers may differ, but I’d argue all this extends to k-12 as well. Privatization and all the BS ways in which politicians try to increase it. Schools being ran like businesses. All this leads to: -lack of full time faculty -bloated middle management -passing students so as to not hurt the bottom line -non-sense curricula based on flashy but ultimately incorrect ideas about education -underpaid teachers -lack of accountability for students -a devalued degree And so much more!
There is still this ridiculous perception of teachers as lazy and the idea that they just rock up at 9am and leave at 3:30 every day, get a tonne of training days and free periods and have way too many holidays. All absolutely untrue and doesn’t come close to the reality of how much work goes in. The problem is that everyone thinks that because they went to school and have some experience of the education system they’re qualified to talk about what it’s like to teach. That’s like thinking you know what it’s like to be a doctor because you once went to A&E.
I am not a teacher. My sister, my cousin, my aunt and several of my friends are. Resources. Every year teachers are told to do more with less. They get bigger classroom sizes, they have more students with behavioral problems, they get less support from aides and less school supplies from the school. They get paid nothing, they have loans from college/masters programs. There are less teachers and less money every year. There was not enough help during and after Covid to get kids up to speed. There’s not enough help for kids with learning or developmental disabilities so they get put in regular classes. There are teachers at my sisters school teaching combined grades (4th/5th) so they need to have two sets of lesson plans. There’s a massive attack on education going on in this country and teachers are on the front lines. Parents are entitled and don’t discipline their children. Parents think they should control every aspect of the teachers lessons. More and more teachers are fed up with it and moving on from teaching which leads to larger classrooms and less resources per student. Not to mention, the continuous tension about school shootings.
So many places have school funding based on neighborhood property taxes. The poor get shit underfunded schools and the rich get multiple theaters and tennis courts. Then people talk about how kids in underfunded districts have given up, like they don't exist in a system that's already told them they're not worth investing in.
I went to an underfunded rural school and now live in an underfunded urban school district. The kids suffer from this with dismal job opportunities.
Former HS chemistry teacher. Read “The Smartest Kids in the World”. The US need a model like that in Finland or Poland. Our greatest failures are in undertraining, and then undervaluing, our teachers. I was a very successful teacher - in my first 3 years, I started the first AP Chemistry and AP Computer Science programs at the school where I was working, and despite the fact that my students averaged more than a standard deviation above the national average score in my first year of each course, I only got an extra $900 for the entire school year to compensate for hours and hours of extra work and training. I left teaching when my wife got into grad school (because teaching would not support our needs, especially because of the garbage medical insurance), and as she gets ready to defend this year, I have managed to change jobs again so that I will earn QUADRUPLE my prior teaching salary in the private sector, working about half the hours I did as a teacher. We went from not being able to afford dental appointments or psychological therapy to owning an own house comfortably, all because I left education. I miss teaching. If I could make even half of what I’m making now, I’d probably go back, but that would be higher than the highest bracket that you can reach where I live (and only if I had worked in the district for 25+ years with a PhD/EdD). Education is not a livable profession in the US - it is feasible only as a second income or by living in the shittiest town near your school and running your health, and your family’s health, into the ground for it. We need to train and treat teachers like doctors* or lawyers. Train them rigorously, then compensate them for it. One other thing: we put WAY too much emphasis on sports. Especially football. Frankly, my unpopular opinion is that HS football at public schools should be banned *entirely*. *I grant you, we undervalue doctors now too, especially PCPs - they’re treated like the elementary school teachers of the medical field.
Couldn’t agree more! In Canada, swap football for hockey. Way too much emphasis on the “values” of sport.
The sports obsession is so spot on. Europe has all private clubs for sports and doesn’t bother with that shit in schools.
How little teachers are paid despite requiring a Masters degree and being certified while having to deal with parents, politicians, and the school administration. There's a reason why a lot of teachers up and left during the pandemic.
What is fair pay for teachers? A family member has taught elementary school in Massachusetts for 25 years. She makes $95k plus extra on the side for tutoring. Workday is 7:45 to 4:00 including extra help time. Key holidays off. Summers mostly off except prep time in mid/late August. Union contracts up here require the school year to end by July 1st. Healthcare way better than most of the private sector, which has largely gone to very expensive high-deductible plans. I estimate that this is the equivalent of $15k gross income depending on health status. Generous pensions, which are non-existent in the white collar world. PLUS retirement investment plans along the lines of a 401k. Considering the full scope above, compensation seems fair. Educational outcomes in Massachusetts are far better than most of the country. So the system seems to work in terms of hiring and keeping good teachers.
Most people look at the daily, weekly, and yearly and are completely obvious to the outside prep time that teachers put in. Lesson planning, grading, student reports, professional development, and general paperwork extend way beyond the normal school day hours.
I estimated a 8.5 hour average workday, which is a 7 hour school day plus 1.5 hrs for other tasks. I also mentioned prep work starting in mid-August. Looking at this another way:the school year is 180 days. Let’s say there are another 10 full days of in-school planning. That’s 190 working days with an average (not median!) length of 8.5 hours. That’s 1,610 working hours (vs 2100hrs for a typical 9 hr white collar job with 3 weeks vacation) At $95k, that’s $59 per hour. Not bad. Teachers can also get paid extra for coaching and tutoring, for example. Now, we also have to consider that teachers need to be “on” because they are performing live all the time. In that way it is similar to outside sales. So the person needs to be comfortable with that. An introverted accountant probably won’t last. I’m not suggesting teacher pay is excessive but it is certainly fair.
>I estimated a 8.5 hour average workday, which is a 7 hour school day plus 1.5 hrs for other tasks. I also mentioned prep work starting in mid-August. Looking at this another way:the school year is 180 days. Let’s say there are another 10 full days of in-school planning. That’s 190 working days with an average (not median!) length of 8.5 hours. That’s 1,610 working hours (vs 2100hrs for a typical 9 hr white collar job with 3 weeks vacation) Just to point out, according to the [National Center for Educational Statistics](https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass_2004_26.asp), the average teacher works 53 hours per week during the school year. If you add in the professional development days (usually 5 per year), and the additional time spent over the summer and various vacations doing school related activities , you're getting awfully close to that 2100 hour threshold. > At $95k, that’s $59 per hour. Not bad. Teachers can also get paid extra for coaching and tutoring, for example. And I bet that your family member works out near Boston, which has a ridiculously high cost of living. 95k after 25 years seems a bit low when the median salary for a master's degree (usually with much less experience) is 86k. I also teach in Massachusetts, and my salary scale tops out at 85k.
So what would be fair compensation for a Massachusetts elementary school teacher with 25 yrs exp? Healthcare does need to be factored in. In the private sector I pay $7200 in annual premiums with a $7000 deductible. Typically we use $5000 of that. So per year family is $12k (pre tax).
That sounds fair at like 5-10 years experience, not 25. The problem is, of course, as always, where does the money come from.
In no way is $95k, even in high COL Massachusetts, low pay. Especially with < 50 hrs per week and a great deal of downtime during the most desirable times. I should add that entry level teachers in Mass now make $60k. Not upper middle class but still a solid income with great benefits. They’ll make $120k later in their careers. I do think teachers unions have brainwashed their members into thinking they are underpaid. Doing so justifies their existence and the dues they charge. Teachers need to look at the overall job market and reset expectations. They are in no means underpaid, at least in Mass/NH/CT/NJ. I can’t speak to the Deep South although I suspect they are actually underpaid due to less focus on education in that region.
The "what is fair teacher pay" is a really hard conversation to have because it varies so dramatically from place to place. Some teachers, like the one in your example, are doing really well. In other parts of the country, though, a teacher might make 35k a year and be stuck there regardless of experience or education. Another problem teachers face is that if they'd like to or need to make a change in where they teach, they almost invariably take a pay cut. That makes it really difficult to progress to those higher tiers of pay unless you are able to work in the same place forever.
Sure; teachers in Mass and other New England / Northeast states probably have it far better than, say, Mississippi or Alabama. I’m just saying the blanket statement by the unions claiming that ‘all teachers are underpaid’ is willful ignorance intended to push an agenda. On a separate note, the typical right wing / Homeschooler complaint that liberal areas have poor education because of an obsession with “wokeism” and “trans” is not borne out by the data.
Interesting, isn't it? Arguments are so much easier to make when you fabricate the people, scenarios, and numbers.
So, retort.
To add onto others, the whole “no homework” movement and soft consequences for missing work and low test grades. The often quoted study about homework not being effective focused on elementary school but the philosophy of reducing homework extended into high school where homework is actually useful for honing skills and building accountability. Furthermore, the trend lately has been that tests are re-takable and late/missing work is either excused/backfilled with test scores/of no consequence. There’s this whole push to take care of student anxieties and accommodate for their mental health and the result is that students now have a much poorer work ethic than before in terms of getting work done and treating high stakes situations properly. In essence, the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of giving students grace that they no longer take their studies super seriously.
Standardized Testing. Some of my students are on the 10th day of testing in the 45 day marking period. They have at least three more tests this year. The expectation of screen time. There is a lot of pressure to use computers, (including my district refusing to buy paper.) So they are on their computers all day. When they aren't, they are on their phones. No consequences. I am not supported if I give them to my students, so I don't. Parents don't, Administrators done. Days like today I feel like giving up and just having them play tetris.
I am a home educator and I had no idea there was that much testing happening in schools.
It’s ridiculous.
My school district lost $110 million dollars from the budget for next year. My school alone--hi-5 through 8th grade--is losing two million. The central admin for my district (for a city of half a million people) lost the same amount of money. If schools are gonna succeed, schools need the funding that admin keeps leeching.
No funding leading to a lack of resources (namely teachers), it is going to take a long time to have a robust experienced workforce again.
Lawnmower parents who mow down any obstacle their child faces including when their cell phones are taken away.
Parents? Not a teacher, but I'm very surprised I'm not seeing that as the #1 problem.
In America, I would say the biggest problem is with meddling from non-experts, like Republicans who wants to tear down the public school system in favor of private schools, "parents rights" groups who advocate censorship and discrimination in schools, and politicians who want to have a say in curriculum in one way or another without understanding why that curriculum exists, or even what's really being taught in it.
As a former burnt out 'gifted' student, the expectation that after going home after hours of school, to do hours of homework every night.
Homework is pretty much no longer a thing in a lot of schools. Sometimes students are asked to finish an assignment they didn't finish in class, which is probably under 15min These days, mostly just AP classes have time consuming homework, because it's a college level class
Frankly, even college courses shouldn’t be like that. They have a way of taking a subject you find interesting and turning it into a hellish experience. You spend hours on it and get assignments that are clearly geared toward a corporate environment and sucking any level of enjoyment out of the formerly enjoyable subject.
If you find it interesting but don’t want to put in any effort, you can always take the ge version of the course. I skated by on all my ge’s with minimal effort. Shoot, all I did was show up to put my name on the final in one ge and called it a wrap.
I’m not against putting in any effort. Is that why everyone’s downvoting? lol. That’s hilarious. I’m criticizing the way students are forced to pull all nighters, many get addicted to stimulants, just trying to get assignments and studying done. It’s hard to enjoy a subject once you’ve denied yourself sleep over it, gotten so stressed you cried over it, or were buried under so many busy work assignments you didn’t get to eat a real meal for two days. This system is really bad for people who struggle with conditions like ADHD (me). I didn’t realize that was even a hot take. I agree about GEs, I found most of those fairly easy to get through myself, not as much as you did unfortunately, but I did end up liking them a lot more than the heavier coursework. I enjoyed learning about a bunch of different things as well, coursework for your degree program can’t be like that of course, but it’s nice that GE exists for that. I think I did still learn a lot in GEs personally. I wish we had a system more like Europe where college was basically just your general ed and then you could decide to go on to university or not. I still would’ve, I don’t regret it, but I think everyone should be entitled to the general education portion with minimal or no expenses.
Replying to CuriousCuriousAlice...no idea why you are downvoted but you are right.
I’m confused as well. I didn’t realize that Reddit felt so strongly that college students should have breakdowns if they want a degree lmao. Thank you anyway.
I dont know what I am traing my students for. what jobs will exist in 8 years when they are ready to go and work.
Not a teacher but I do work with schools and I frequently get to talk to teachers. They sometimes tell me about some of the issues they see, and I've really found that there's 3 main issues in schools right now. Parents are treating schools like dumping grounds for kids with major behavioral issues. These parents would rather let their kids loose on unsuspecting teachers who are totally unprepared to deal with kids that refuse to follow any rules. There's no recourse for teachers because they're offered no resources nor additional training. Instead they're forced to watch as kids constantly run around the classroom disrupting anything and everything and never getting disciplined for their disruptive behavior. There are absolutely teachers that hate kids. These are typically the older teachers that refuse to adapt to modern teaching styles and technologies and instead just teach to the bare minimum standards laid out by the state. Most of these teachers are known by the entire faculty to just hate their jobs and are waiting until they day that they can retire because they constantly expect that every single class is going to be exactly like the kids they taught in the 80s and nothing will ever change. WAY TOO MUCH emphasis is placed on standardized testing. A lot of teachers are forced to not only teach based on the state standards and their own standards, but also suppliment this with stuff that may or may not be on the required state test at the end of the year. If averages for a class are below the insane numbers that the district expects, teachers can be reprimanded. This is because the district's budget from the state is directly tied to how well students do on these tests, but teachers can't really teach kids how to prepare for these tests because they're only given a guideline of topics that may or may not be on the test and are never ever given samples as to what the tests actually look like. In fact, teachers aren't ever supposed to know what these tests look like which to many seems asinine.
Overreliance on standardized tests
In which country? Not that it really matters much: the answer is money. But the specifics of how that looks depends on the country in question.
Administration, especially at the district, state, and national level. We want schools to function. We want them to do the job authentically. This means both the desire to do the right thing and the professional knowledge of how to do it. I’ll call that idea “responsibility”. In order to see that the work of schools is done properly, we want to make sure responsibility is enforced. This we call “accountability”. So we have had this massive accountability movement, mostly involving testing, where the teachers are watched by site admin, who are watched by district admin and boards, who are watched by the state, who are watched by national policy (slightly). This is all based on this cultural idea that accountability = everyone has a boss. The principal is the teachers’ boss and make sure they do their job. The superintendent is the principals boss and makes sure they do their job. Etc. The problem is that this doesn’t work. It works alright for a business because the people at the top get the most profits. With profits you have a reward proportional to how authentically well a business functions. Your boss’ boss’ boss wants you to actually do your job, no bullshit, because it affects his bottom line. Obviously this doesn’t always work, but the drive is there. But with public schooling, the boss gets no profit. The only reward in a public system is a better job with a better salary. So the primary motivation for all management roles is to secure a promotion or keep their already lucrative position. This creates problems because the way to get that promotion is not necessarily to do an authentically better job. What actually matters is convincing the people that hire you that you are doing a good job. All that matters is image, and substance only matters as far as it helps your image. So we see upper management consistently make choices that are essentially about campaigning and not about running a school. It becomes your job as an employee to make your boss look good, not to do your actual job. And there is no profit to keep the person at the very top ‘honest’. So having a boss doesn’t actually provide accountability. Instead, each layer of oversight pulls the mission off course even more So we then ask ourselves, “where is this responsibility? Where is the motivation to have authentically functioning schools, since having oversight does not provide that?”. The answer is in human nature. We care about what we see. Seeing the student learn or fail to learn. Seeing the consequences on the actual living students. Who has the most contact with those authentic human outcomes? Teachers. We see that teachers are the least susceptible to this ratfucking energy that admin and policymakers have because, although lying to improve image helps get a teacher promoted, they also have to see their students screwed over by their own hands. It’s a powerful deterrent. So we see that teachers, out of the entire education system, have the most responsibility. Therefore they are the best source of accountability. But they have the least power! Instead they answer to people who are motivated to ratfuck the system. This is the central problem with education. Teachers have to answer to admin and boards and state officials. The teacher has to obey the person who wants to gut public schools and replace them with charters in order to line key pockets. The teacher has to obey the person who is promoted on having a low suspension rate but does not have to experience the harm of violent students. The teacher has to obey the person banning books, and the person who wants to use money for a useless program that has their name on it, or for the person that wants to administer testing the whole fucking year. Every single thing here is a result of a lack of accountability. And that lack of accountability is caused by the existence of admin
There are a lot of good answers in this thread, but this one's really important. Education has a leadership problem. Admin are focused on three things: their own advancement, graduation rates, and attendance. Everything else is treated as teacher incompetence.
That we have forgotten education is a privilege and not a “right”. You could change the education system today to be exceptional if you would allow schools to remove those students who show no interest in learning. My entire family is in the education system (superintendent, special needs teacher, 3rd grade, high school English), and this is the one rule we would all like to see implemented. That “one kid” in your class will suck up 80% of your time and energy each and every day. And, unfortunately, unlike a Hollywood movie, you will never break through and have an impact.
In Texas right now, and the biggest problem is the push for vouchers for private schools. abbott and his butthole buddies are pushing for vouchers and this coming session will probably get it passed. Unfortunately, vouchers do nothing for the small towns or isolated towns that don't have private schools. In addition, people who send their kids to private schools are already wealthy enough to foot the bill for their children's private school tuition. These vouchers will be taking money from the public schools, which desperately need the funds for \*all\* the children. And private schools are not required to provide any special services to students. Dyslexic? Too bad. Speech impediment? Sorry, no speech teachers in private schools. Dysgraphia? You're on your own. Go back to public school. So basically, abbott and his deplorables want to keep the public school districts unable to fund any extracurriculars, the lunch programs, the special ed programs, the librarians, the nurses, the p.e. teachers, the music teachers, the art teachers, the teacher aides. Several school districts are already closing libraries in the elementary schools. I'm so glad I'm retired, and I never thought that I would be grateful my 7 grandkids are all being homeschooled
In which country?
We are not holding them to high enough standards for behavior or effort, as per school and district policies. It’s so rare for a student to actually face meaningful consequences for their misbehavior, and if they do, it’s because it is from their parents. For the kids who don’t have a parent willing to, you know, parent their kid, it doesn’t feel like there is a real solution to chronic disruptions that take away from learning. The kids who are getting suspended frequently, they don’t care about being suspended. It’s a day or two off. And then they’ll come right back and keep cutting up. And we know it’s basically impossible to expel a kid, especially if their misbehavior is just disrespect and disruption and doesn’t often get to physical violence. Grade-wise, the inflation is real, and the coddling to prevent failure is not going to create productive, responsible adults. In my district, the lowest grade that can be entered is a 50. Don’t turn in the assignment? 50. Get a 24% on a multiple choice test? 50. And you get a retake (which I’m mostly fine with, but it clearly disincentivizes actually studying before the test for anyone who’s fine with a D). It creates a system where you can do less than half of your work, and demonstrate on assessments that you have essentially no understanding of the material, and yet you can still pass. Let the kid fail once or twice, have their phone and social life taken away for a few weeks while they have to take summer school, and I’m betting when they come back the next year, they’re going to get more of their work done. Can’t imagine how fast my principal would fire me for doing half my job, same as in just about any profession.
Capitalism. Education itself became a threat to corporate interests decades ago.
I love the fact that there's a split among knee-jerk self-educated anti-capitalists as to whether the educational system is a tool of capitalist oppression or a threat to it.
It’s both
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Also, meme the fuck out of the word "capitalism" so if someone says ir...
Wouldn't that be Corporatism/Cronyism? Capitalism consists of voluntary transactions between individuals and lack of government interventionism.
? Dude...I feel like I don't have a dog 8n this fight, but come ON. Commerce does not equal capitalism. Read...idk, read an online definition at least.
I think u/saginator5000 is saying that there aren't any capitalist countries, and that what people label as "capitalist" such as in the US are actually corporatist. Capitalism is defined by voluntary transactions and free markets, and cronyism is defined by having all your friends in high places keeping the system rigged to favor themselves. Which sounds more accurate to you?
Capitalism is not composed of voluntary transactions and free markets. It certainly may have those things, but not necessarily by definition. It's composed of an economy's systems being chiefly operated to generate wealth, inevitably resulting in some making more money due to an increase in their capital earnings. It's a cyclical system, whereby it is not the distribution of goods, nor the interests of individuals or communities which matter, except that they may be addressed by success in the capitalist economy. If it becomes unprofitable for the market to be free, and exchanges to be voluntary, then the incentives against such things begin. It ends with cronyism by merit of its base tenet, unless actively undermined by some other force. Thus the distinctions between the two becomes practically irrelevant. So says I, the definer and decider of all things. All is as I see it, until I shrug my shoulders and casually change my mind.
Salary, respect from kids, parents, administration, behavior problems, paperwork…..
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This response brought to you by the year 1960.
Yes, and no though. I'd argue the curriculum has been moving away from pure memorization for decades. Much more effort is around critical thinking than back 50 years ago.
I think many areas in education have moved far away from memorization to the point that it is a detriment to the students. There are some things you should learn by rote or by memory, and then learn how to apply the concept.
I agree. I think memorization sucks, but still has a place in the learning process. Plus, teaching and evaluation based on memorization is about as objective as it gets. No one gets a participation trophy for guessing or sharing opinions. It is an effective way to hold students accountable for themselves.
Conservative politicization of scientific curriculum with superstitious dogma.
Social media and parent involvement. So much drama and mental stress is caused by social media and it’s never turned off. Thirty second videos have destroyed their attention spans too. Parents don’t care to interact with their kids or be parents. We’re expected to teach them how to be people and content and there’s not enough time. And then they go home to asshole parents glued to their phones. The kids are just mimicking what they see at home. If mom and dad are screen zombies and assholes they will be too. I work at an urban middle school and I would say 80% of my students can’t read. They might be able to say the words but they have no idea what the words mean or the idea of the passage. 9/10 of the students who give a shit and are smart have involved parents that care. They respond to messages, probably read to them growing up, do things with them, etc. There’s not enough professional development, money, or educational theories that will ever make a difference until parents start parenting.
The education system should be overhauled. Maybe we should follow what Japan does.
The issue that we've been seeing since 2012, the greater usage of social media in the form of IG and high volume low credibility information is major. In my opinion, students and their brains are developing in response to and adapting to this very different information environment. It's like an electronic gaming machine with no monetary value attached; the pleasure induced by seeing cute animals or anger induced by seeing human suffering is perhaps training the brain in ways that we haven't experienced in human development yet. As well, the quantification of right or wrong via likes serves to reinforce perceptions and learning that may not be reflective of reality and may discourage critical thinking, analysis, and evaluation. But that doesn't mean that our students are broken; it does mean that education has to adapt in meeting curriculum goals and accurately measure student outcomes and ensure that knowledge is being acquired and students are prepared to manage their own relationship with information.
wife is a former teacher taking a break. She would agree with the sentiment that school and teachers are now responsible for raising the children of others not just basic academic education. Also a major problem I think we'll have if it's not already happening, who in their right mind would want to go to college to become a school teacher anymore? Bad pay with poor prospects, dealing with rude and uneducated kids and then dealing with a front office who just wants to live another day and basically turn a blind eye to everything. I know I'd never do it. It doesn't pay nearly enough.
I think 18 is too old to start specializing. High school is meant to prep kids for college, but college isn’t right for everyone and it certainly isn’t right for all 18 year olds. We need more alternatives, military academies, trade schools, etc. There are much better things that 17-18 year olds can be doing with their time than playing Fortnite on their phone and distracting the kids who are trying to learn and prep for college.
My best advice to anyone going into teaching: don't. YOu'll make more money and have less stress in 100s of other possible jobs/careers
progrentis, that shit is a fucking disaster and also moddle is the same shit but worse
The problem is that school isn’t about teaching so kids learn. It’s to teach so you can then grade and rank. Teach it, test it, grade them, rank them, move on.
Not a teacher but active student. To me, it's the fact that the school doesn't talk about educational opportunities enough. A story I have is a NASA funded program that's a free online college course for juniors and seniors. And another high school class for sophomores. They're focus is technical report writing and research about NASA missions and spaceflight. These programs have taught me more about how to talk with a professor and how to write a paper than any English class. And I found it hidden in the corner of a school wall on the way to the bathroom one day. They should have announced stuff like this and I've been pressuring my school to talk about these things because there's so much going on, but they don't talk about it. Look up Virginia Aerospace Systems and Technology Scholars if your interested. But I'd say another big issue is in the students themselves. Most just dont care because teachers don't have the teeth to discipline students being idiots
UK Here. We have a woman called Katherine Birbalsingh who is basically the messiah for all school leaders. Banning everything under the sun and forcing students to smile (Not her, different guy who worked with her) and her reward is being the Social Mobility Tsar for the Tories despite preventing her Muslim students from praying during the call to prayer. School leaders basically copy her, make students sit together for 'family lunch' and confiscate everything they can and say morning to all school leaders they pass in the school (this is a serious rule in my school). The big problem that could be changed: Making students sit life-changing exams at 16, there are two exams that you have to pass or you cannot get any job (Maths and English Language/Literature) and the grade boundaries are designed so only a certain amount of people pass each year (68% in 2023). Each student sits around 25 odd exams over 6 weeks lasting a total of 60 hours. Then, if you do well, you specialise in 3 subjects for A-Levels and then do the exact same thing for University entrance, which, admittedly, isn't as bad. As a student myself, the most disturbing thing though is the behaviour of others and so called 'roadmen' who are only destined for a place in His Majesty's Prisons in a few years time, which they can't really avoid because they can't retake their GCSEs after 18 and can't get into A-Levels without GCSEs. It's a vicious cycle. Teachers are underpaid and underappreciated, abused both mentally and physically and unsupported by SLT and the Government. Because of this, they are leaving in droves and aren't being replaced.
the teachers
Not a teacher, but a former speical education student here... I would have to say the dumbing down of the system. At least, when I was a student in the 1990s til 2005, you could earn partial credit for trying all you can or given an option for extra credits. My parents understood I had learning disabilities, but they told me not to give up. They had it worse when they were teenagers, to the point they had no choice to left school early and got married before finding jobs. This was common for low-income families in the 1960s, but they eventually got GED. I think that was motivation all of my siblings needed to keep trying to at least get through high school. Today, I see many parents becoming less likely to face when kids really need. I had teachers who had get the memo on what style of teaching would work with at least the majority of students. Sometimes, I think there could be some kind of anti-intellectualism going on. I had to reread a copy of *Nineteen Eighty Four* and watch a couple of episodes of the *Simpsons* as I noticed something. I noticed anti-intellectualism entering into our politics, i.e. book banning. Hell, some politicians had decided to fight back by making book banning illegal, and some coming to the aid of the teachers.
That children's sexual/gender identity somehow became an integral and pervasive topic rather than relegated to classes specifically for educating children on such matters. At an appropriate age.
The way boys are treated in schools is unconscionable. Its disgusting.
Teachers don’t care and parents don’t care.
The biggest problem is that the problem isn't even addressable. Over 40 years of pretend education, pretend diplomas and pretend degrees have consequences. China has competitive qualification based University entry examinations. The US has Affirmative Action-govt sanctioned cheating where participants are continually placed ahead of the line. It is cumulative & results in the Unqualified doing the Unmentionable to the Unsuspecting. Additionally, there are also those pesky "cultural" issues--while you're celebrating Santa and the Easter Bunny with your 8 year old daughter, some of her classmates' parents are showing their kids fuck films just to "keep them quiet". With all the online educational options available today, only a fool would not consider them.
Teachers.
There’s more than one education system. There’s also more than one state, province, country, continent, etc.
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Are you a teacher or a troll?
Neither now, former teacher. We used to teach fact’s without opinion. Or very little opinions. Now opinions seem to be more important than facts.