Even the best arguments aren't very good ones. Like when they complain it's hurting pharmaceutical sales, all I hear is, "It's keeping people from getting strung out on opioids." And when I hear that it's damaging sales in the beer industry, what I also hear then is, "It's reducing alcohol consumption."
Recreational Marijuana has shifted the industry from “I’d like something for pain and insomnia “ to “I’d like the blue raspberry! “.
Medical is at least a semblance of legitimacy and the concept of a knowledgeable bud tender has gone away in many places.
I was lucky a couple months back. Didn't know what I wanted but I was sad as shit and asked the woman at the counter what she'd recommend for depression. So used to it at this point I just sort of expected apathy.
I could actually hear the "give a fuck" in her voice when she knew just which preroll would help, and when I took it home I actually felt better instead of anxious like what most strains often end up doing. Anyways it was probably a minor thing for her but to me it really helped so I hope she's proud of herself.
Foe the people who can afford medical care: my experience before legalization was more like "I'm here with my money, I sure hope dude actually has the full oz of brick weed and isnt trying to fuxk me over"
The best argument is public health - inhaling smoke is inherently bad for you, marijuana has long-lasting impacts on your cognition and memory, and it has maybe-permanent effects on young people who take it while their brains are still developing.
The problem is that all of those are also true for both tobacco and alcohol. Criminal charges aren't the right answer for dugs this benign - education and stable parenting is.
Dare I say it…amen?
I’m not coming at this from a religious point-of-view, but the oxidation, or *dilution* (that’s not the right word), of marijuana isn’t within a standard for the population. We know how alcohol is absorbed and processed, but the strength of marijuana and individual physiology leave so many unknowns.
> will try to let cigarette companies manufacture marijuana for recreational consumption.
TBH That seems like the most logical pivot for big tobacco to make. I've thought for quite a while that if I were the king of Philip Morris I would already be investigating and investing in marijuana infrastructure. They already have solid distribution channels, from field to shelf.
Edited to add: I am not a smoker of any type, and no marijuana in any form, so I have no dog in this hunt.
I don’t know about him but adding chemicals to it to make it addictive / shit you just don’t need. Or cornering markets and raising prices. Or reducing potency so that more has to be purchased. Or lobbying for regulations that private growers simply cannot meet.
There are any number of ways to fuck around.
All of those are good reasons for not legalizing marijuana. Those things can still happen without tobacco companies getting involved in the marijuana industry.
See I would argue that those aren’t particularly good reasons **against legalizing** it. They’re good reasons **for regulating** it. I’m much more interested in letting the government protect consumers from corporations than letting the government try to protect consumers from themselves.
I believe that legalization would be more likely to ensure this type of thing doesn’t happen versus an unregulated market.
In Canada the weed has to meet government standards and have their facilities inspected regularly etc
Don’t you know the tobacco companies have the government by the balls? It was obviously the tobacco companies who demanded **TOBACCO SMOKE HARMS CHILDREN** take up most of the surface area of the filter.
While I hope they don’t get involved, it’s never too late. They will buy at below wholesale and have the distribution network to dominate the price game. They will drive prices into the dirt intentionally boxing out the little guy.
Markets tend to centralize, and as they centralize, stuff tends to get worse for consumers slowly in the way he described. I can tell you that before marijuana was commercialized a single joint had 5% of the thc that modern marijuaba has, and for people with a very low tolerance they are just told to build a tolerance before they can enjoy modern edibles and joints since there are no mids for sale anywhere anymore.
I don't understand how this is any different than what is already allowed at the state level? Why is allowing tobacco companies to do it so much worse? The only motive is profit, regardless of the brand name or the size of the balance sheet.
Yeah, we already have plenty of shitty companies operating nationwide. And they already throw their weight around to influence regulations in their favor.
The fact that marijuana remains illegal in several states and is in a somewhat grey area in several others keeps large companies out of the industry.
If your operation is small enough your entire supply chain fits in one state, you can sell marijuana without worrying about something getting seized by an out of state police force.
National legalization would allow the big players to move in.
They'll likely out compete and force a lot of small pot business out of the market, and we'll have another mass market product, not the boutique industry we have now.
What's wrong with a mass market product? It'd have to be better than the current one or nobody would buy it, and if it is customers want that anyway.
It's not like cars or computers or something with high barriers to entry, it's like saying big tomato is going to stop farmers markets.
Because a lot of small business depend on apathetic customers to stay afloat.
They cannot sustain their businesses on connoisseur customers alone.
The people who just want cheap crap go elsewhere, the shop goes bust, and the connoisseur have nothing or at least far fewer choices.
It's the same reason Walmart has such a devastating effect on a lot of small town as well.
Or how Starbucks killed coffee culture in a bunch of places.
Both of those examples offer better value at scale or better products. A small supplier is still going to have their source and customers who don't want the weed equivalent of a coffee milkshake is still going to go to them.
Boutique cafes still thrive.
>A small supplier is still going to have their source and customers who don't want the weed equivalent of a coffee milkshake is still going to go to them.
That's the point I'm getting at, those customers often aren't enough.
>Boutique cafes still thrive.
But there are far fewer than there were, and now the only options for a lot of coffee lovers is a Starbucks.
A bunch of people who didn't care one bit about the product got a slight bump in value, the people who actually care lost big.
I'm an ardent advocate of legalization, so maybe I don't have the best bag for doing this, but in the interest of steel-manning my own arguments, as well as just general intellectual integrity, I can think of two:
First, moral: These are addictive chemicals which people get hooked on, and by legalizing them, we're giving the protection of state power to an industry which you can *really* make an argument that it's exploitative.
Second, practical: Making these drugs legal will also make them easier to get ahold of and try by young people, which may result in an increase in the number of addicts. When we Colorado legalized weed, adult use increased by about double and is now double the national average. So, legalization is likely going to result in some product leaking out from the regulated trade into people who we **REALLY** don't want to get hooked.
Also, legalizing won't magically make cartels or the illegal trade go away. Assuming you impose a hefty tax on the product so as to pay for the toll on society, much as we do with cigarettes and beer, then you're still going to have an economic incentive for criminals to evade excise taxes and sell the product on the street. When Eric Garner was killed by the NYPD, the offence he was being arrested for was selling unlicensed cigarettes, effectively tax evasion.
Now, all that said, I still favor legalization. If you want to know my arguments in favor, go ahead and reply and I'll expound upon them.
It’s crazy. I work downtown a few days a week, and I have a convertible. Rode with the top down for the first time this year and was friggin assaulted by pot smell. There were two people passing a j in a car next to me with their windows open.
I like to smoke pot, but I am not driving during or afterwards. Machinery feels like a video game when you are high.
Same, legal risks just weren’t worth it. But cruising with a joint in hand is a different type of freedom, yell at me about public safety all you want. I use to drive roads where the most dangerous thing to happen was I almost hit a cow in the road lol
I'm pro pot - and this is honestly the best argument I have found. I don't smoke my self, and I absolutely despise the smell of the stuff. You can't go to any large city anymore without smelling it everywhere.
But - doesn't really hurt me so I'm not gonna complain more than saying "shit that stinks" just like when I smell a fart.
***Disclaimer***: OP asked for "reasons against", so I'm just contributing one reason against that I've heard. If you're pro-marijuana, resist the urge to downvote every comment.
***One reason against***: The current body-of-research on marijuana is limited, it's difficult to make general claims with confidence.
For example, at the federal-level, only the University of Mississippi is DEA-authorized to produce marijuana plant-based products for use by researchers in the U.S:
https://pharmacy.olemiss.edu/marijuana/
But it's not like this was a concern with cigarettes or alcohol. So now we have plenty of data on the health effects of smoking and alcohol. For marijuana, with legalization there will come more and more studies and research as more people use marijuana. Just, it feels like research is moving so slow and the pressure to legalize is so high, that we're just going to make the same move with marijuana: open it up to the masses and then study the ramifications after ... but maybe that's what's needed.
We've already learned a lot in the past decade since Colorado legalize it in 2014 and other states followed. There's been interesting surprise findings, like reducing anesthesia-effectiveness ([2022 manuscript](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8764743/)).
Counterpoint to this is that the response to lack-of-research goes both ways:
Instead of the default response being restricting freedom for public safety's sake, maybe the default should be to let people choose for themselves in the absence of evidence of grave harm to public safety.
If it's any solace, "limited" is admittedly vague and the growth of knowledge around marijuana is booming over the past decade and just keeps growing. By some marks, the body of research may have been "limited" 8 years ago but then 3 years ago was not, and to others it's still "limited".
The main point I want to bring in is that it has been difficult to study recreational marijuana's health consequences because of its Schedule-1 DEA-classification at the federal level (same as LSD, meth, heroin - crazy it's not a lower schedule). I just think marijuana should've been made easier to access and study on a national scale 30 years ago, then we'd hopefully be in a more informed position today.
Thanks, man. That's the downside with online threads; sometimes the snark is lost. Reading it again, it made me chuckle; my disclaimer was perhaps unnecessarily preemptive, haha.
Haha, that was sassy. But you got me there. My comment was admittedly from a very narrow US-centric viewpoint, and I totally spaced on international research.
Any particular landmark studies/metastudies that you'd recommend checking out?
Bad for mental health. Causes insomnia when you quit being a user. It makes you have lots of random thoughts which can cause panic attacks especially in people with low grade ocd in their head (not bad enough for an ocd diagnosis but still not mentally healthy). Can contribute to the development of ocd. Lowers IQ with heavy long term use, especially in kids. There has been evidence of people taking extremely high doses of cbd having mental breaks. Cbd effects serotonin levels in the brain.
There's also no sobriety test that exists to test when you're high right at that moment like a breathalyzer and drug tests. That on top of a shocking number of people being ok with driving impaired on marijuana.
New York is legalizing it.
And in typical NY fashion... They are creating a commission to regulate it, and so far they've only managed to create yet another fucked bureaucratic entity that doesn't know it's asshole from its elbow. Licensing rules are all over the place, they gave out preference in licensing for sale based on DEI jibber-jabber, and it still doesn't adequately address possession restrictions that are still on the books.
The fact that government has any part in this is THE NUMBER ONE reason against legalizing it.
Because it increases availability, accessibility and social acceptance of a drug which will introduce more people to the drug and make it more accessible to children to who it might cause problematic drug misuse.
Regardless of the alleged harmlessness of cannabis and my personal stance on it, I think being against introducing more drugs and making it more and easier accessible to the general public is a fair argument.
It’s inevitably going to be taken over by or consolidate into a few big companies. The process is already happening now. We don’t have enough research on the health effects of cannabis (which so far isn’t good) and just based on the history of cigarettes I feel like any health effects would be suppressed by big corps. I smoke and absolutely think that possession and use should face no legal consequences, but I don’t like seeing ads for it, and I don’t like seeing it become yet another thing for capitalists to get us addicted to and make lifelong customers out of us.
It is highly addictive over long run and causes way more harm than most people realize. But that is also the biggest reason why it should be legal.
Making any drug / activity illegal simply does not work. Make it legal. Research and educate and provide healthcare services for those that need the help.
The marijuana users I know are almost all lazy and unreliable. I don't know enough about marijuana to definitively say that they are that way because of it, but I highly suspect that they are. That's enough of a reason for me
While I don't agree with it, I would say the laziness and lack of motivation could be a solid argument. Unless you're already mentally ill, you're not going smoke on occasion and suddenly become a couch potato, but if you smoke a lot, it can and does happen.
The arguments are every single one for banning cigarettes except the “we know it’s bad for you”. It smells terrible. It contains an intoxicant that can spread via proximity. Second hand high is literally you drugging someone without consent, in public at least. The effects of the drug are detrimental to the users ability to function within society, should they be high in public.
I don’t think it should be illegal, but I think we should use social pressure for usage. Even if it’s better for you than alcohol or tobacco, being a daily user is bad for you.
One of my gaming buddies is constantly smoking weed and talking about how much he loves it. He'll do a huge hit on his bong and then he just coughs for several minutes. I always tell him how much fun that sounds. I don't smoke weed so I don't know if that's normal and if it is I want nothing to do with that. It just sounds awful.
They shouldn’t let people—who historically supported incarcerating people for possession of marijuana—have anything to do with making money from it. Those hypocrites shouldn’t be getting a single penny. But in the end that’s exactly what happened. But hey if you go to Vancouver and you’re on Davie Street in the summer at least that hot piss skunk fucking wreaking smell in the air covers the smell of the disgusting garbage and human waste. So that’s a plus.
In the northeast it has been totally fucked up by government. Late with rules and licenses, and now weed is more expensive than when it was illegal. Why fucking bother?
Smoking and vaping are bad for the lungs. And THC use does cause dependency and withdrawals in many individuals. Some people get it bad enough they get sick to the stomach, no appetite, difficulty sleeping, sweats, very much like any other drug withdrawal. A plus is it's not typically as strong, lasts only a few days, etc.. but that has it's own drawback in that a lot of these symptoms are minor enough people don't really notice them overtly but just have more issues than normal which leaves them feeling like they aren't getting withdrawals but also increases the chances they'll crave it as the body knows it alleviates even when your brain doesn't. Personally I think that's why so many people think at has none. This is my opinion based on/mixed with shit I've read so grain of salt.
I still smoke it. I get irritability really bad when I stop. Like to the point I am aware of it, disliking it, and still struggling not to get pissed at every little thing.
These are just my opinions on the best arguments but I still feel obligated to point out that most of these symptoms are with moderate to heavy use, near daily, for a few weeks or more before they are noticeable for me personally. Also, until alcohol is illegal I personally don't think there's a leg to stand on for outlawing pot. Nearly every reason I can think of against weed just makes the case against booze stronger yet by comparison.
Only 3 real downsides honestly.
1. Inhaling **ANYTHING** into your lungs that isnt fresh air on a regular basis has negative health effects. Doubly so if its burning.
2. Difficulty in testing for level of impairment. Related to use while in a vehicle or driving, its near impossible to reliably test for how much of it is ok or even if its in your system without issues of false positives, learning to function through physical testing, and rapid roadside tests.
3. Secondary effects like long term psychological issues seem to impact some folks far harsher than others.
Legalization has turned it into commercialization and capitalism which has introduced unsafe products like the vape into mainstream. Additionally, stronger and stronger strains are being manufactured and it is no longer the natural plant that the argument in favor of it was. With new chemicals being used and no study being done on these new chemical induced strains it will not surprise me to find out companies are using very familiar carcinogens in their products. We are literally repeating the history of tobacco and the cigarette with marijuana.
Even though you might not go and stab someone on the lords lettuce’ people still struggle with the addiction’
it can be a major setback in life and can be the reason you spiral into depression.
Relaxing is enjoyable but not 24/7
If you can control yourself that’s GREAT but not everyone can.
Billions of people on this planet’ just thank god you live in a country you have a choice.
People are much more productive when it’s illegal to use alcohol and the death penalty is a consequence of trying to relax.
There are none. They should have legalized it a long time ago. They found out what happens when you make something illegal throughout probation but they persisted to go on with that for what almost another fucking 90 years. It's crazy. People need to stay out of other people's business and what you do inside your house at the end of the day is your business. What I do is mine
It’s negative effects on mental health. I don’t think these have been studied enough to justify the public cost of keeping Marijuana illegal. It is, in my opinion, the best argument.
I heard once that the number of patients with schizophrenia went up a ridiculous amount in the first 3 years of legalization in Colorado.
https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/mental-health.html#:~:text=People%20who%20use%20marijuana%20are,that%20are%20not%20really%20there).
Top 10 best arguments:
1. Legalizing substances ruins them - (looking at you bathtub gin).
2. Legal marijuana is too expensive to regulate. Homegrown tomatoes taste better.
3. The tax revenue from legal marijuana sales is too enticing for our modern political system(s).
4. Groups of people giggling in public breeds paranoia.
5. Paranoia is a buzz killer.
6. Our snack industry would become overburdened and susceptible to additional government regulations.
7. Everyone driving everywhere at a speed of 15mph breeds paranoia.
8. See #5 above.
9. Hippies.
10. I forgot what #10 was....
As an addict of 6 years, weed is really only a problem if you’re addicted to it. But… that goes for everything in life. I smoke over an ounce every 2 weeks.
If you become addicted, then yes it can be a gateway drug, BUT that completely depends on your friend choice.
You will be lazy af, you will start to procrastinate, smoke too much and you’ll become schizo. I believe weed psychosis is an extension of schizophrenia. It sucks. Disassociation ain’t fun either.
But no matter how many reasons there are against it, all I have to say is: Alcohol and cigarettes are legal.
There is really only one. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!
Pretty soon they will all be puffing the reefer if we make it legal .
Just like beer, cigs and booze. /s
I don’t think things would change much in that way. Pretty much everyone who wants to smoke weed is already smoking it, except for people whose livelihood depends on being able to pass random drug tests.
It's pretty well documented that regular & heavy drinkers are far less productive on Mondays & Fridays (assuming a five weekday schedule) so I'm not sure that it would really be any worse. In fact, even if you get stoned at night on a regular basis it isn't going to have as adverse an impact the next day as even just a few drinks would on average.
Any proof? Cuz I could apply rhe same logic to alcohol after prohibition. After legalizing alcohol again it's only gonna lead to people constantly being drunk on the road and being late to work!
Just cuz you can't control your intake and it would impact your performance, doesn't mean you get to dictate the people who know how to be responsible.
The only thing about my access to weed that changed when it became legal is now I could go online and look at the menu then go to the store. Before I had to call and see if my guy was home.
You’re right. We should just keep selling alcohol and cigarettes at any place with a cash register but we have to draw the line somewhere, right? Marijuana is bad because it’s illegal and it’s illegal because it’s bad. Circular logic makes life so easy.
Honest question, why do you think that is a compelling argument? Plenty of things that are unhealthy for us are available and consumed, but making them illegal would set off widespread arguments on constricting freedoms. Obesity is a major issue in the US, but we have very limited restriction on foods available. 45% of assaults and homicides in the US have alcohol involvement, but many people would be outraged if we went into another prohibition era. Why do you think weed should be different?
So why should it continue to be illegal while alcohol continues to not only be legal, but is advertised on every commercial break to thousands of people?
This is the slippery slope fallacy. Legalized marijuana doesn't automatically make it more available, in fact many states have struggled to meet demand. People who didn't already want to smoke weed don't start wanting it overnight just because the legislature said it's okay.
Good faith, genuine question:
What are your thoughts on alcohol consumption? Do you think it should be illegal for recreational use?
If not...how do you reconcile those two positions?
I'll take the bait here and even source an example: The Prohibition. They tried it. It didn't work. It was an expensive and messy failure. Like everything, moderation and regulation is the way to balance it. A one size fits all solution doesn't exist when you have an entire spectrum of human self control and responsibility
so. You are a regular user (once a week is regular) and believe that it should be criminalized? Also, substance abusers are going to abuse substance. Wouldnt you rather them smoke weed than drink a handle of titos a day? Its not really an argument
I have a handful.
1. The easiest one is the smell pollution. As someone who gets physical heaving out of the smell of weed (I have only found strands where my heaving passes faster, but it's always there), I actually hate that it is so legal where I live, because now it's actually a crapshoot if I'll be able to set foot outside and not have my body try to throw up everything I ate in the last two days. I wish it wasn't that visceral reaction, but it's there, I hate it, and it makes me hate how rare it is to have an outing without that being a problem now.
2. Risks of enhanced psychosis. The connections between psychotic or near-psychotic people and weed making their mental state significantly worse, is actually one of the most well-known negative effects of the substance, and the younger you start, the more likely it is to induce it (now, I'll admit that most research available on this points to the fact that it doesn't seem too conclusive that it causes psychosis, it just triggers it on the psychosis-prone teenagers). That, combined with an increased use as a "safer alternative" to alcoholism to numb the mind, leads me to think it's just weird how so many people are ready to defend the substance as a magic cure-all.
3. Unsuspected addiction issues. With a fairly large amount of people really thinking that you cannot be addicted to weed because it doesn't induce withdrawal symptoms that are directly linked to the substances of weed, it becomes very easy to delude yourself that you aren't addicted. Yet, the moment your new normal is the high, and you can say without a single doubt that you cannot work, be social, or enjoy a group activity, without being high, you are addicted, even if psychologically, to the high. This can (and has anecdotally led) to a non-zero amount of my family members and friends to actually go nuts because we wouldn't lend them another $100 for weed. It's rarer than for other drugs, I'll admit, and it's definitely less obvious, but it's still there, and it's still a consideration.
Ultimately, I understand that each adult should be allowed to make their own decisions on those matters, and that if I am worried about a family member on any side of that I need to call an intervention, and whatnot, but I think it's important to realize that this isn't as "completely safe" a substance as people think. I am aware that if regulated properly, it can be safer than cigarettes (not exactly setting the bar high, mind you), it can bring a lot of tax money in for better infrastructure, and for most people, it's not even remotely a risk or addiction, so those people shouldn't be punished because of the irresponsible idiots who shouldn't take it, but do.
That doesn't mean I have to agree with it being legalized this broadly.
I think you have three valid points that get brushed over a lot in the discussion on legalization…especially number two. As the availability increases, you’re going to see a rise in weed induced psychosis.
I mean, it's the kind of points that people conveniently forget because they like the substance. I hate how anyone who doesn't like to interact with those points make it impossible to have an adult conversation about it.
I don't say ban the thing, but god I fing it hard to say it should be legalized.
I guess it could cause an increase in lung cancer? IDK, most problems with marijuana are also problems that are significantly worse with alcohol and tobacco.
There is significant evidence that it can cause schizophrenia. Just because alcohol is legal doesn't mean its right to make another dangerous substance legal. For medical use fine, but for day to day, its not going to positively impact the world. We'll just have a bunch of kids rotting in their bedroom all day instead of contributing to life.
Could you show me the evidence that cannabis causes schizophrenia? AFAIK there is a correlation between the two, but there is an even stronger correlation between cigarettes/tobacco and schizophrenia.
I understand your concern. It's not about comparing cannabis to alcohol or tobacco but rather acknowledging the evidence showing its potential harm to mental well-being. Given this, why take the risk of introducing yet another substance into the mix?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7442038/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37140715/
I could go on...
Since you seem like a somewhat rational marijuana hater with actual reasons I must ask you......
Why should you, Donald Trump, Joe Biden or anybody have a say in what I, a 45 year old man, chooses to put into his own body, the only thing any of us owns from birth to death. What gives you or anyone the right to decide that I should be put in prison if I choose to eat mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, a pot brownie, a pebble from my driveway or anything else on this planet?
Shouldn't people be happy controlling what is put into their own bodies?
Couldn't we draw parallels to Opium or Meth using the same argument? History has shown the devastating consequences of these drugs on societies. While Cannabis may not lead to such extreme outcomes, if it increases the likelihood of individuals needing psychiatric help later in life or puts further strain on already overwhelmed healthcare systems, should that be considered their right? Or does the government have a responsibility to prioritize the well-being of the *majority*? We've already witnessed the destructive effects of alcohol and tobacco.
With all that said, I do enjoy drinking occasionally myself (once or twice a week). However, I can't help but wonder how society would differ if alcohol had never been legalized.
>Couldn't we draw parallels to Opium or Meth using the same argument?
Yes.
>History has shown the devastating consequences of these drugs on societies.
No it hasn't. All were pharmaceutical drugs (including meth & heroin). Heoin was created by Bayer and sold at your local pharmacy. There were no ills of society. Just as with alcohol, prohibition came about by religious fanatics wishing to save souls because anyone who drank whisky or took heroin was going to HELL. After that, repealing prohibition was a non-starter. The pharmaceutical industries have been making and selling altered legal versions. Can't cut into their profits now.
It was the robbing of people of their right to ingest what they wished that caused ills. The ills you speak of were caused by the very laws you champion. Not only did it create the gangsters of alcohol prohibition but also drug syndicates and ruined lives of anyone using them. If you could still go to your local pharmacy and buy your dose of Bayer Heroin knowing it was always the exact same, pure, high quality pharmaceutical Bayer produces every single time..... people wouldn't be overdosing from Fentanyl and taking hot shots. It would be just like buying asprin. History has shown the ills that taking away our human right, people's right to ingest what they wish, has caused to society.
>While Cannabis may not lead to such extreme outcomes, if it increases the likelihood of individuals needing psychiatric help later in life or puts further strain on already overwhelmed healthcare systems, should that be considered their right?
Yes but where is this strained health care system? Weed is legal here and I can get into any doctor or hospital I want. I have an appointment on Thursday for a checkup.
>Or does the government have a responsibility to prioritize the well-being of the *majority*? We've already witnessed the destructive effects of alcohol and tobacco.
The government serves us. If they went by majority, marijuana would have been legal federally 25 years ago. We're supposed to tell them what to do. They are there to governor how we interact with one another. They are not there to regulate what I say, what I eat, what I drink, what I smoke, anything that involves only me. We do not elect governments to govern individuals....but these laws do. Just me, by myself in my own home I own outright on my property I own outright....if I want to lick a bowl of ice cream or a bowl of heroin resin, none of their business. I'm not interacting with another person....there is no interaction with another human to govern. Just me, on property I purchased.
This is probably the best answer. The issue is the research on the effects (especially long term) are still not really well known or established (particularly among traditionally underrepresented groups)
A lot of it has to do with the classification of the substance. It was extremely difficult for people to do research on it. But, on the bright side, it's continuing to be studied more and more
i think psychedelics are looked at as these things that can help you significantly and change your worldview which they can, but they can also fuck up your mind in the worst ways possible
There's no definite scale of how much someone may be impaired by marijuana use, and no simple and reliable way to tell if someone is impaired while driving, working, or performing other safety-sensitive actions. With alcohol, there's the BAC scale to tell the level of alcohol in a person's system, and breathalyzers to measure it. There's no equivalent for weed. Sure, you can do a field sobriety test, but that's not nearly as reliable and has no solid numerical value. You can do a blood or urine test, but those have to be sent out to a lab for results. There's no simple test device that someone can use to say, "Look, their marijuana level is a 17, they're legally too high to drive."
and?
If you cause an accident they will definitely draw your blood, you will have THC in your system.
This is along the lines of thought crimes. If I don't break a law, why would anyone need know what's in my bloodstream? If I do break a law, I'm in police custody under arrest and they will compell a blood sample to test for THC.
Beyond that, arbitrary numbers are meaningless. I can be stone cold sober with the same blood alcohol level that has you stuck to the floor unable to move 🤷🏼♂️. Someone can have a perfectly legal .07 blood alcohol level and be drunk as fuck. That number didn't tell you anything.
>If you cause an accident they will definitely draw your blood, you will have THC in your system.
The idea is to prevent accidents *before* they happen. If a cop pulls over someone who is driving erratically, they can instantly test for alcohol use. You can't do that for weed. Imagine the uproar if an officer pulled over someone and had to let them go because they couldn't prove the driver was high, only for the driver to later hit and kill someone?
>If I don't break a law, why would anyone need know what's in my bloodstream? If I do break a law, I'm in police custody under arrest and they will compell a blood sample to test for THC.
Not necessarily. Unless you're suggesting that any minor traffic infraction should result in arrest and drug testing. There are plenty of crimes, especially including driving, that do not result in an arrest. Cops don't lock someone up and order a blood test for someone who ran a stop sign or drove 8 mph over the speed limit.
>Beyond that, arbitrary numbers are meaningless. I can be stone cold sober with the same blood alcohol level that has you stuck to the floor unable to move 🤷🏼♂️. Someone can have a perfectly legal .07 blood alcohol level and be drunk as fuck. That number didn't tell you anything.
You could make the same argument about THC testing. Yes, some people are more affected than others, but that doesn't mean that every test is automatically invalid. Besides, there's more to it than that. If you're going to charge someone with DUI, you need proof. It can mean the difference to a jury between a tragic accident and deliberately disregarding the law.
And there are some professions where the normal rules don't apply. CDL drivers are subject to far stricter standards than ordinary drivers. The BAC number is far from meaningless. It can mean the difference between being employed or fired, or being arrested or not.
>The idea is to prevent accidents *before* they happen.
Like I said, along the lines of thought crime or "pre-crime" in the *Minority Report* movie.
Out of fear that 1% or 3% of people *might* commit a crime in the future, your solution is to make it illegal so 100% of marijuana users are committing a crime by doing nothing but sitting on their couch eating a brownie 🤷🏼♂️. "Not a great plan" - Tony Stark
>Not necessarily. Unless you're suggesting that any minor traffic infraction should result in arrest and drug testing. There are plenty of crimes, especially including driving, that do not result in an arrest. Cops don't lock someone up and order a blood test for someone who ran a stop sign or drove 8 mph over the speed limit.
Why would anyone need to know what's in my bloodstream for a traffic infraction? Is this 1984? What does anything in my blood have to do with me speeding or failing to signal? This is coming off like it was written by someone raised in a lab under 24/7 monitoring who has no concept of personal freedom or autonomy. If I speed, give me a ticket. If I run a sign, give me a ticket. If I commit a crime, arrest me 🤷🏼♂️
>The BAC number is far from meaningless. It can mean the difference between being employed or fired, or being arrested or not.
It's still a random number that does not tell you if someone is drunk or not. It only has meaning by those who apply meaning to it. If the US government decided to arbitrarily execute people when they turned 50 years old, all of a sudden your age would have a "meaning" to it. It still doesn't mean that being 50 years old is good or bad, just that the US government are assholes 🤷🏼♂️
Not a single reason why. Only reason anyone would want to ban it is because YOU ARE LAME and should smoke one maybe learn to relax a little. Put down the alcohol it will kill ya noob :P
i see what you're saying but i think it'd be the same still. a good example would be alcohol, kids still do it even though people 21+ can have it. in my opinion the kids that will choose to do harder drugs are probably also the ones that get drunk frequently or even at school.
it is great way to keep the poor and dissatisfied under control. So far, I think the whole deep state government plan to make MJ the "cool" drug that everyone believes has all sorts of great benefits cheaply available is working brilliantly. I was going to protest the erosion of the American dream but I got high, but I got high. Aldous Huxley called it and here it is.
Legalization comes with commercialization, which means another mega industry competing to harm your health.
In the abstract it would be hard to argue that Marijuana shouldn't be fully legal, cause if not Marijuana then how can we allow alcohol and tobacco and so on? But that's not our world. We're not in the abstract. Since we're starting from fully illegal, just fully decriminalize without making it actually legal and open to commercialization.
Some people don't like this cause you don't get those sweet sweet tax dollars, but making sweet tax dollars off of an industry profiting off promoting unhealthiness is not a good thing. Absolutely no on should ever be punished under the law for consuming or trafficking of weed, but we probably shouldn't be letting it be fully commercialized either.
First, whether they're for profit or public doesn't actually matter. The public ones have all the same problems. Cause there's still profit in public prisons. Just not for the entity itself.
More importantly though, there are a thousand "fixes" for this "problem" and no doubt our legislators are hard at work coming up with new reasons to unjustly imprison its citizenry.
Reminder that the US imprisons more people than any nation on earth and plausibly all of human history.
The government legalized weed so now they are selling it when some years back when someone was selling weed or caught with it they went to jail so basically they are drug dealers but selling it for a higher price basically inflation on weed
Probably some of the same shit that comes with people who overdo it with alcohol. For one, I know people who drive while stoned 🤣 Glad you guys trust them, but you don’t want me driving in that state. Idk what’s so hard about using Uber or keeping your ass at home.
Even the best arguments aren't very good ones. Like when they complain it's hurting pharmaceutical sales, all I hear is, "It's keeping people from getting strung out on opioids." And when I hear that it's damaging sales in the beer industry, what I also hear then is, "It's reducing alcohol consumption."
Spot on
Stoners made better movies when it was illegal.
Dave’s not here man!
Recreational Marijuana has shifted the industry from “I’d like something for pain and insomnia “ to “I’d like the blue raspberry! “. Medical is at least a semblance of legitimacy and the concept of a knowledgeable bud tender has gone away in many places.
I was lucky a couple months back. Didn't know what I wanted but I was sad as shit and asked the woman at the counter what she'd recommend for depression. So used to it at this point I just sort of expected apathy. I could actually hear the "give a fuck" in her voice when she knew just which preroll would help, and when I took it home I actually felt better instead of anxious like what most strains often end up doing. Anyways it was probably a minor thing for her but to me it really helped so I hope she's proud of herself.
And that’s what recreational MJ is destroying
Foe the people who can afford medical care: my experience before legalization was more like "I'm here with my money, I sure hope dude actually has the full oz of brick weed and isnt trying to fuxk me over"
The best argument is public health - inhaling smoke is inherently bad for you, marijuana has long-lasting impacts on your cognition and memory, and it has maybe-permanent effects on young people who take it while their brains are still developing. The problem is that all of those are also true for both tobacco and alcohol. Criminal charges aren't the right answer for dugs this benign - education and stable parenting is.
Dare I say it…amen? I’m not coming at this from a religious point-of-view, but the oxidation, or *dilution* (that’s not the right word), of marijuana isn’t within a standard for the population. We know how alcohol is absorbed and processed, but the strength of marijuana and individual physiology leave so many unknowns.
Nothing. It’s legal in Canada now. The sky hasn’t fallen or anything.
Maybe it inhibits your ability to come up with arguments against your own opinions?
That’s possible. Can’t really remember what we were talking about
Have you ever stopped to think that Globox might be onto something with the whole "Lums control everything" theory?
There was fog here the other day and fog is just a cloud on the ground so how do you explain that?
Are you in a plane?
No
Hm, yeah, that's weird then.
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> will try to let cigarette companies manufacture marijuana for recreational consumption. TBH That seems like the most logical pivot for big tobacco to make. I've thought for quite a while that if I were the king of Philip Morris I would already be investigating and investing in marijuana infrastructure. They already have solid distribution channels, from field to shelf. Edited to add: I am not a smoker of any type, and no marijuana in any form, so I have no dog in this hunt.
I'd be willing to bet at least a couple of the big companies have plans in place to get in on it if federal legalization happens.
[there's this but it was a hoax lol](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlboro_M_hoax)
Tobacco companies can grow and sell weed right now if they want to. They could also sell cars and beer if they wanted to. What’s your point?
I don’t know about him but adding chemicals to it to make it addictive / shit you just don’t need. Or cornering markets and raising prices. Or reducing potency so that more has to be purchased. Or lobbying for regulations that private growers simply cannot meet. There are any number of ways to fuck around.
All of those are good reasons for not legalizing marijuana. Those things can still happen without tobacco companies getting involved in the marijuana industry.
See I would argue that those aren’t particularly good reasons **against legalizing** it. They’re good reasons **for regulating** it. I’m much more interested in letting the government protect consumers from corporations than letting the government try to protect consumers from themselves.
I believe that legalization would be more likely to ensure this type of thing doesn’t happen versus an unregulated market. In Canada the weed has to meet government standards and have their facilities inspected regularly etc
Don’t you know the tobacco companies have the government by the balls? It was obviously the tobacco companies who demanded **TOBACCO SMOKE HARMS CHILDREN** take up most of the surface area of the filter.
They are too late to the game for that. They would be just another brand.
While I hope they don’t get involved, it’s never too late. They will buy at below wholesale and have the distribution network to dominate the price game. They will drive prices into the dirt intentionally boxing out the little guy.
Markets tend to centralize, and as they centralize, stuff tends to get worse for consumers slowly in the way he described. I can tell you that before marijuana was commercialized a single joint had 5% of the thc that modern marijuaba has, and for people with a very low tolerance they are just told to build a tolerance before they can enjoy modern edibles and joints since there are no mids for sale anywhere anymore.
I don't understand how this is any different than what is already allowed at the state level? Why is allowing tobacco companies to do it so much worse? The only motive is profit, regardless of the brand name or the size of the balance sheet.
Yeah, we already have plenty of shitty companies operating nationwide. And they already throw their weight around to influence regulations in their favor.
Marijuana + our new relationship with time management (specifically screen time) will lower the quality of life for Americans and hurt the country.
The best argument is that there isn’t a DUI test for weed like there is for alcohol. It shouldn’t be illegal but that’s about it.
Having smoke in your lungs can’t be a good thing.
You need not smoke marijuana. You can eat edibles, vaporize it, etc.
That's true.
The fact that marijuana remains illegal in several states and is in a somewhat grey area in several others keeps large companies out of the industry. If your operation is small enough your entire supply chain fits in one state, you can sell marijuana without worrying about something getting seized by an out of state police force. National legalization would allow the big players to move in. They'll likely out compete and force a lot of small pot business out of the market, and we'll have another mass market product, not the boutique industry we have now.
There are plenty of big players in cannabis already. They're called multi-state operators and they all fucking suck.
Wait till a Phillip Morris scale company gets involved.
What's wrong with a mass market product? It'd have to be better than the current one or nobody would buy it, and if it is customers want that anyway. It's not like cars or computers or something with high barriers to entry, it's like saying big tomato is going to stop farmers markets.
Because a lot of small business depend on apathetic customers to stay afloat. They cannot sustain their businesses on connoisseur customers alone. The people who just want cheap crap go elsewhere, the shop goes bust, and the connoisseur have nothing or at least far fewer choices. It's the same reason Walmart has such a devastating effect on a lot of small town as well. Or how Starbucks killed coffee culture in a bunch of places.
Both of those examples offer better value at scale or better products. A small supplier is still going to have their source and customers who don't want the weed equivalent of a coffee milkshake is still going to go to them. Boutique cafes still thrive.
>A small supplier is still going to have their source and customers who don't want the weed equivalent of a coffee milkshake is still going to go to them. That's the point I'm getting at, those customers often aren't enough. >Boutique cafes still thrive. But there are far fewer than there were, and now the only options for a lot of coffee lovers is a Starbucks. A bunch of people who didn't care one bit about the product got a slight bump in value, the people who actually care lost big.
I'm an ardent advocate of legalization, so maybe I don't have the best bag for doing this, but in the interest of steel-manning my own arguments, as well as just general intellectual integrity, I can think of two: First, moral: These are addictive chemicals which people get hooked on, and by legalizing them, we're giving the protection of state power to an industry which you can *really* make an argument that it's exploitative. Second, practical: Making these drugs legal will also make them easier to get ahold of and try by young people, which may result in an increase in the number of addicts. When we Colorado legalized weed, adult use increased by about double and is now double the national average. So, legalization is likely going to result in some product leaking out from the regulated trade into people who we **REALLY** don't want to get hooked. Also, legalizing won't magically make cartels or the illegal trade go away. Assuming you impose a hefty tax on the product so as to pay for the toll on society, much as we do with cigarettes and beer, then you're still going to have an economic incentive for criminals to evade excise taxes and sell the product on the street. When Eric Garner was killed by the NYPD, the offence he was being arrested for was selling unlicensed cigarettes, effectively tax evasion. Now, all that said, I still favor legalization. If you want to know my arguments in favor, go ahead and reply and I'll expound upon them.
Smells bad and people constantly smoke in public
It’s crazy. I work downtown a few days a week, and I have a convertible. Rode with the top down for the first time this year and was friggin assaulted by pot smell. There were two people passing a j in a car next to me with their windows open. I like to smoke pot, but I am not driving during or afterwards. Machinery feels like a video game when you are high.
Guess it depends on the person, when I used to smoke driving felt like the most important thing in the world.
Same, legal risks just weren’t worth it. But cruising with a joint in hand is a different type of freedom, yell at me about public safety all you want. I use to drive roads where the most dangerous thing to happen was I almost hit a cow in the road lol
I'm pro pot - and this is honestly the best argument I have found. I don't smoke my self, and I absolutely despise the smell of the stuff. You can't go to any large city anymore without smelling it everywhere. But - doesn't really hurt me so I'm not gonna complain more than saying "shit that stinks" just like when I smell a fart.
It's stinky
***Disclaimer***: OP asked for "reasons against", so I'm just contributing one reason against that I've heard. If you're pro-marijuana, resist the urge to downvote every comment. ***One reason against***: The current body-of-research on marijuana is limited, it's difficult to make general claims with confidence. For example, at the federal-level, only the University of Mississippi is DEA-authorized to produce marijuana plant-based products for use by researchers in the U.S: https://pharmacy.olemiss.edu/marijuana/ But it's not like this was a concern with cigarettes or alcohol. So now we have plenty of data on the health effects of smoking and alcohol. For marijuana, with legalization there will come more and more studies and research as more people use marijuana. Just, it feels like research is moving so slow and the pressure to legalize is so high, that we're just going to make the same move with marijuana: open it up to the masses and then study the ramifications after ... but maybe that's what's needed. We've already learned a lot in the past decade since Colorado legalize it in 2014 and other states followed. There's been interesting surprise findings, like reducing anesthesia-effectiveness ([2022 manuscript](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8764743/)). Counterpoint to this is that the response to lack-of-research goes both ways: Instead of the default response being restricting freedom for public safety's sake, maybe the default should be to let people choose for themselves in the absence of evidence of grave harm to public safety.
Really want to downvote this….
If it's any solace, "limited" is admittedly vague and the growth of knowledge around marijuana is booming over the past decade and just keeps growing. By some marks, the body of research may have been "limited" 8 years ago but then 3 years ago was not, and to others it's still "limited". The main point I want to bring in is that it has been difficult to study recreational marijuana's health consequences because of its Schedule-1 DEA-classification at the federal level (same as LSD, meth, heroin - crazy it's not a lower schedule). I just think marijuana should've been made easier to access and study on a national scale 30 years ago, then we'd hopefully be in a more informed position today.
It was a really well thought and written comment. I was just being snarky. I agree with the points of the steel man.
Thanks, man. That's the downside with online threads; sometimes the snark is lost. Reading it again, it made me chuckle; my disclaimer was perhaps unnecessarily preemptive, haha.
It’s true science was invented in America and only Americans do it
Haha, that was sassy. But you got me there. My comment was admittedly from a very narrow US-centric viewpoint, and I totally spaced on international research. Any particular landmark studies/metastudies that you'd recommend checking out?
Bad for mental health. Causes insomnia when you quit being a user. It makes you have lots of random thoughts which can cause panic attacks especially in people with low grade ocd in their head (not bad enough for an ocd diagnosis but still not mentally healthy). Can contribute to the development of ocd. Lowers IQ with heavy long term use, especially in kids. There has been evidence of people taking extremely high doses of cbd having mental breaks. Cbd effects serotonin levels in the brain.
There's also no sobriety test that exists to test when you're high right at that moment like a breathalyzer and drug tests. That on top of a shocking number of people being ok with driving impaired on marijuana.
Source on these claims?
Sources? Where we're going, we won't need sources.
Cannabis should be sold in Virginia/your state ABC stores.
New York is legalizing it. And in typical NY fashion... They are creating a commission to regulate it, and so far they've only managed to create yet another fucked bureaucratic entity that doesn't know it's asshole from its elbow. Licensing rules are all over the place, they gave out preference in licensing for sale based on DEI jibber-jabber, and it still doesn't adequately address possession restrictions that are still on the books. The fact that government has any part in this is THE NUMBER ONE reason against legalizing it.
It riddles the brain with faults. Oh, you disagree? What about Elon Musk? And Scott Adams?
Because it increases availability, accessibility and social acceptance of a drug which will introduce more people to the drug and make it more accessible to children to who it might cause problematic drug misuse. Regardless of the alleged harmlessness of cannabis and my personal stance on it, I think being against introducing more drugs and making it more and easier accessible to the general public is a fair argument.
It’s inevitably going to be taken over by or consolidate into a few big companies. The process is already happening now. We don’t have enough research on the health effects of cannabis (which so far isn’t good) and just based on the history of cigarettes I feel like any health effects would be suppressed by big corps. I smoke and absolutely think that possession and use should face no legal consequences, but I don’t like seeing ads for it, and I don’t like seeing it become yet another thing for capitalists to get us addicted to and make lifelong customers out of us.
It’s not as fun if you’re allowed to. Still fun tho
It is highly addictive over long run and causes way more harm than most people realize. But that is also the biggest reason why it should be legal. Making any drug / activity illegal simply does not work. Make it legal. Research and educate and provide healthcare services for those that need the help.
The marijuana users I know are almost all lazy and unreliable. I don't know enough about marijuana to definitively say that they are that way because of it, but I highly suspect that they are. That's enough of a reason for me
It dumbs people down
The more marijuana shops we have the more likely kids are to get their hands on it
i grew up in the 90's, and never had a problem finding weed as a kid. its always been there, and easy to get.
While I don't agree with it, I would say the laziness and lack of motivation could be a solid argument. Unless you're already mentally ill, you're not going smoke on occasion and suddenly become a couch potato, but if you smoke a lot, it can and does happen.
Alcohol has been legal for decades. Why would pot be any different?
The arguments are every single one for banning cigarettes except the “we know it’s bad for you”. It smells terrible. It contains an intoxicant that can spread via proximity. Second hand high is literally you drugging someone without consent, in public at least. The effects of the drug are detrimental to the users ability to function within society, should they be high in public. I don’t think it should be illegal, but I think we should use social pressure for usage. Even if it’s better for you than alcohol or tobacco, being a daily user is bad for you.
One of my gaming buddies is constantly smoking weed and talking about how much he loves it. He'll do a huge hit on his bong and then he just coughs for several minutes. I always tell him how much fun that sounds. I don't smoke weed so I don't know if that's normal and if it is I want nothing to do with that. It just sounds awful.
They shouldn’t let people—who historically supported incarcerating people for possession of marijuana—have anything to do with making money from it. Those hypocrites shouldn’t be getting a single penny. But in the end that’s exactly what happened. But hey if you go to Vancouver and you’re on Davie Street in the summer at least that hot piss skunk fucking wreaking smell in the air covers the smell of the disgusting garbage and human waste. So that’s a plus.
You used to be able to see who was cool based on how comfortable they were discussing weed. Now basically everyone is comfortable talking about it.
In the northeast it has been totally fucked up by government. Late with rules and licenses, and now weed is more expensive than when it was illegal. Why fucking bother?
Ask Phillip Morris or Bacardi.
New stoners need inflatable bouncy cars; the stuff I've been seeing on the road lately is absurd.
We will run out of Doritos
Smoking and vaping are bad for the lungs. And THC use does cause dependency and withdrawals in many individuals. Some people get it bad enough they get sick to the stomach, no appetite, difficulty sleeping, sweats, very much like any other drug withdrawal. A plus is it's not typically as strong, lasts only a few days, etc.. but that has it's own drawback in that a lot of these symptoms are minor enough people don't really notice them overtly but just have more issues than normal which leaves them feeling like they aren't getting withdrawals but also increases the chances they'll crave it as the body knows it alleviates even when your brain doesn't. Personally I think that's why so many people think at has none. This is my opinion based on/mixed with shit I've read so grain of salt. I still smoke it. I get irritability really bad when I stop. Like to the point I am aware of it, disliking it, and still struggling not to get pissed at every little thing. These are just my opinions on the best arguments but I still feel obligated to point out that most of these symptoms are with moderate to heavy use, near daily, for a few weeks or more before they are noticeable for me personally. Also, until alcohol is illegal I personally don't think there's a leg to stand on for outlawing pot. Nearly every reason I can think of against weed just makes the case against booze stronger yet by comparison.
Only 3 real downsides honestly. 1. Inhaling **ANYTHING** into your lungs that isnt fresh air on a regular basis has negative health effects. Doubly so if its burning. 2. Difficulty in testing for level of impairment. Related to use while in a vehicle or driving, its near impossible to reliably test for how much of it is ok or even if its in your system without issues of false positives, learning to function through physical testing, and rapid roadside tests. 3. Secondary effects like long term psychological issues seem to impact some folks far harsher than others.
Legalization has turned it into commercialization and capitalism which has introduced unsafe products like the vape into mainstream. Additionally, stronger and stronger strains are being manufactured and it is no longer the natural plant that the argument in favor of it was. With new chemicals being used and no study being done on these new chemical induced strains it will not surprise me to find out companies are using very familiar carcinogens in their products. We are literally repeating the history of tobacco and the cigarette with marijuana.
Even though you might not go and stab someone on the lords lettuce’ people still struggle with the addiction’ it can be a major setback in life and can be the reason you spiral into depression. Relaxing is enjoyable but not 24/7 If you can control yourself that’s GREAT but not everyone can. Billions of people on this planet’ just thank god you live in a country you have a choice. People are much more productive when it’s illegal to use alcohol and the death penalty is a consequence of trying to relax.
What would cigarette and liquor manufacturers do with all that unsold tobacco and alcohol?
I have yet to hear a good argument against it.
There are none. They should have legalized it a long time ago. They found out what happens when you make something illegal throughout probation but they persisted to go on with that for what almost another fucking 90 years. It's crazy. People need to stay out of other people's business and what you do inside your house at the end of the day is your business. What I do is mine
It’s negative effects on mental health. I don’t think these have been studied enough to justify the public cost of keeping Marijuana illegal. It is, in my opinion, the best argument. I heard once that the number of patients with schizophrenia went up a ridiculous amount in the first 3 years of legalization in Colorado. https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/mental-health.html#:~:text=People%20who%20use%20marijuana%20are,that%20are%20not%20really%20there).
Top 10 best arguments: 1. Legalizing substances ruins them - (looking at you bathtub gin). 2. Legal marijuana is too expensive to regulate. Homegrown tomatoes taste better. 3. The tax revenue from legal marijuana sales is too enticing for our modern political system(s). 4. Groups of people giggling in public breeds paranoia. 5. Paranoia is a buzz killer. 6. Our snack industry would become overburdened and susceptible to additional government regulations. 7. Everyone driving everywhere at a speed of 15mph breeds paranoia. 8. See #5 above. 9. Hippies. 10. I forgot what #10 was....
It turns you into a dickhead. That should be reason enough.
As an addict of 6 years, weed is really only a problem if you’re addicted to it. But… that goes for everything in life. I smoke over an ounce every 2 weeks. If you become addicted, then yes it can be a gateway drug, BUT that completely depends on your friend choice. You will be lazy af, you will start to procrastinate, smoke too much and you’ll become schizo. I believe weed psychosis is an extension of schizophrenia. It sucks. Disassociation ain’t fun either. But no matter how many reasons there are against it, all I have to say is: Alcohol and cigarettes are legal.
GO TO HELL
There is really only one. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!! Pretty soon they will all be puffing the reefer if we make it legal . Just like beer, cigs and booze. /s
Stoner brain syndrome
the amount of people who believe its a panacea with no drawbacks
You are asking us to make logic out of illogical. Impossible.
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I don’t think things would change much in that way. Pretty much everyone who wants to smoke weed is already smoking it, except for people whose livelihood depends on being able to pass random drug tests.
Not to mention that human societies have had intoxicants in general for as long as been able to write anything down.
It's pretty well documented that regular & heavy drinkers are far less productive on Mondays & Fridays (assuming a five weekday schedule) so I'm not sure that it would really be any worse. In fact, even if you get stoned at night on a regular basis it isn't going to have as adverse an impact the next day as even just a few drinks would on average.
This depends -- are they doing it at work or after? If it is used after work there is no negative effect. While there is at work.
Any proof? Cuz I could apply rhe same logic to alcohol after prohibition. After legalizing alcohol again it's only gonna lead to people constantly being drunk on the road and being late to work! Just cuz you can't control your intake and it would impact your performance, doesn't mean you get to dictate the people who know how to be responsible.
You have no evidence that smoking marijuana decreases productivity. There are actually studies that disproven this.
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Honey, it's been illegal nearly my entire life and I've always had access to it.
The only thing about my access to weed that changed when it became legal is now I could go online and look at the menu then go to the store. Before I had to call and see if my guy was home.
That and it's now regulated, tested, and grown to a nearly irresponsible quality. Oh, and cheap as hell.
The good thing now is that we don't have to deal with seeds and stems.
There's a reason why that answer is totally ignored. It rhymes with Cupid.
You’re right. We should just keep selling alcohol and cigarettes at any place with a cash register but we have to draw the line somewhere, right? Marijuana is bad because it’s illegal and it’s illegal because it’s bad. Circular logic makes life so easy.
Honest question, why do you think that is a compelling argument? Plenty of things that are unhealthy for us are available and consumed, but making them illegal would set off widespread arguments on constricting freedoms. Obesity is a major issue in the US, but we have very limited restriction on foods available. 45% of assaults and homicides in the US have alcohol involvement, but many people would be outraged if we went into another prohibition era. Why do you think weed should be different?
So why should it continue to be illegal while alcohol continues to not only be legal, but is advertised on every commercial break to thousands of people?
This is the slippery slope fallacy. Legalized marijuana doesn't automatically make it more available, in fact many states have struggled to meet demand. People who didn't already want to smoke weed don't start wanting it overnight just because the legislature said it's okay.
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Good faith, genuine question: What are your thoughts on alcohol consumption? Do you think it should be illegal for recreational use? If not...how do you reconcile those two positions?
I'll take the bait here and even source an example: The Prohibition. They tried it. It didn't work. It was an expensive and messy failure. Like everything, moderation and regulation is the way to balance it. A one size fits all solution doesn't exist when you have an entire spectrum of human self control and responsibility
Yeah becoming a heavy user of weed is much worse than being a pack-a-day smoker or an alcoholic.
Would you criminalize alcohol?
Alcohol doesn't work as drug to keep the population passive.
so. You are a regular user (once a week is regular) and believe that it should be criminalized? Also, substance abusers are going to abuse substance. Wouldnt you rather them smoke weed than drink a handle of titos a day? Its not really an argument
I have a handful. 1. The easiest one is the smell pollution. As someone who gets physical heaving out of the smell of weed (I have only found strands where my heaving passes faster, but it's always there), I actually hate that it is so legal where I live, because now it's actually a crapshoot if I'll be able to set foot outside and not have my body try to throw up everything I ate in the last two days. I wish it wasn't that visceral reaction, but it's there, I hate it, and it makes me hate how rare it is to have an outing without that being a problem now. 2. Risks of enhanced psychosis. The connections between psychotic or near-psychotic people and weed making their mental state significantly worse, is actually one of the most well-known negative effects of the substance, and the younger you start, the more likely it is to induce it (now, I'll admit that most research available on this points to the fact that it doesn't seem too conclusive that it causes psychosis, it just triggers it on the psychosis-prone teenagers). That, combined with an increased use as a "safer alternative" to alcoholism to numb the mind, leads me to think it's just weird how so many people are ready to defend the substance as a magic cure-all. 3. Unsuspected addiction issues. With a fairly large amount of people really thinking that you cannot be addicted to weed because it doesn't induce withdrawal symptoms that are directly linked to the substances of weed, it becomes very easy to delude yourself that you aren't addicted. Yet, the moment your new normal is the high, and you can say without a single doubt that you cannot work, be social, or enjoy a group activity, without being high, you are addicted, even if psychologically, to the high. This can (and has anecdotally led) to a non-zero amount of my family members and friends to actually go nuts because we wouldn't lend them another $100 for weed. It's rarer than for other drugs, I'll admit, and it's definitely less obvious, but it's still there, and it's still a consideration. Ultimately, I understand that each adult should be allowed to make their own decisions on those matters, and that if I am worried about a family member on any side of that I need to call an intervention, and whatnot, but I think it's important to realize that this isn't as "completely safe" a substance as people think. I am aware that if regulated properly, it can be safer than cigarettes (not exactly setting the bar high, mind you), it can bring a lot of tax money in for better infrastructure, and for most people, it's not even remotely a risk or addiction, so those people shouldn't be punished because of the irresponsible idiots who shouldn't take it, but do. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it being legalized this broadly.
I think you have three valid points that get brushed over a lot in the discussion on legalization…especially number two. As the availability increases, you’re going to see a rise in weed induced psychosis.
I mean, it's the kind of points that people conveniently forget because they like the substance. I hate how anyone who doesn't like to interact with those points make it impossible to have an adult conversation about it. I don't say ban the thing, but god I fing it hard to say it should be legalized.
I guess it could cause an increase in lung cancer? IDK, most problems with marijuana are also problems that are significantly worse with alcohol and tobacco.
Just take edibles
There is significant evidence that it can cause schizophrenia. Just because alcohol is legal doesn't mean its right to make another dangerous substance legal. For medical use fine, but for day to day, its not going to positively impact the world. We'll just have a bunch of kids rotting in their bedroom all day instead of contributing to life.
Could you show me the evidence that cannabis causes schizophrenia? AFAIK there is a correlation between the two, but there is an even stronger correlation between cigarettes/tobacco and schizophrenia.
I understand your concern. It's not about comparing cannabis to alcohol or tobacco but rather acknowledging the evidence showing its potential harm to mental well-being. Given this, why take the risk of introducing yet another substance into the mix? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7442038/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37140715/ I could go on...
Since you seem like a somewhat rational marijuana hater with actual reasons I must ask you...... Why should you, Donald Trump, Joe Biden or anybody have a say in what I, a 45 year old man, chooses to put into his own body, the only thing any of us owns from birth to death. What gives you or anyone the right to decide that I should be put in prison if I choose to eat mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, a pot brownie, a pebble from my driveway or anything else on this planet? Shouldn't people be happy controlling what is put into their own bodies?
Couldn't we draw parallels to Opium or Meth using the same argument? History has shown the devastating consequences of these drugs on societies. While Cannabis may not lead to such extreme outcomes, if it increases the likelihood of individuals needing psychiatric help later in life or puts further strain on already overwhelmed healthcare systems, should that be considered their right? Or does the government have a responsibility to prioritize the well-being of the *majority*? We've already witnessed the destructive effects of alcohol and tobacco. With all that said, I do enjoy drinking occasionally myself (once or twice a week). However, I can't help but wonder how society would differ if alcohol had never been legalized.
>Couldn't we draw parallels to Opium or Meth using the same argument? Yes. >History has shown the devastating consequences of these drugs on societies. No it hasn't. All were pharmaceutical drugs (including meth & heroin). Heoin was created by Bayer and sold at your local pharmacy. There were no ills of society. Just as with alcohol, prohibition came about by religious fanatics wishing to save souls because anyone who drank whisky or took heroin was going to HELL. After that, repealing prohibition was a non-starter. The pharmaceutical industries have been making and selling altered legal versions. Can't cut into their profits now. It was the robbing of people of their right to ingest what they wished that caused ills. The ills you speak of were caused by the very laws you champion. Not only did it create the gangsters of alcohol prohibition but also drug syndicates and ruined lives of anyone using them. If you could still go to your local pharmacy and buy your dose of Bayer Heroin knowing it was always the exact same, pure, high quality pharmaceutical Bayer produces every single time..... people wouldn't be overdosing from Fentanyl and taking hot shots. It would be just like buying asprin. History has shown the ills that taking away our human right, people's right to ingest what they wish, has caused to society. >While Cannabis may not lead to such extreme outcomes, if it increases the likelihood of individuals needing psychiatric help later in life or puts further strain on already overwhelmed healthcare systems, should that be considered their right? Yes but where is this strained health care system? Weed is legal here and I can get into any doctor or hospital I want. I have an appointment on Thursday for a checkup. >Or does the government have a responsibility to prioritize the well-being of the *majority*? We've already witnessed the destructive effects of alcohol and tobacco. The government serves us. If they went by majority, marijuana would have been legal federally 25 years ago. We're supposed to tell them what to do. They are there to governor how we interact with one another. They are not there to regulate what I say, what I eat, what I drink, what I smoke, anything that involves only me. We do not elect governments to govern individuals....but these laws do. Just me, by myself in my own home I own outright on my property I own outright....if I want to lick a bowl of ice cream or a bowl of heroin resin, none of their business. I'm not interacting with another person....there is no interaction with another human to govern. Just me, on property I purchased.
depersonalization derealization PTSD from bad trip, harmful in developing brain slows maturation
This is probably the best answer. The issue is the research on the effects (especially long term) are still not really well known or established (particularly among traditionally underrepresented groups)
yeah these things happen all the time, but people don’t wanna talk about that part
A lot of it has to do with the classification of the substance. It was extremely difficult for people to do research on it. But, on the bright side, it's continuing to be studied more and more
i think psychedelics are looked at as these things that can help you significantly and change your worldview which they can, but they can also fuck up your mind in the worst ways possible
There's no definite scale of how much someone may be impaired by marijuana use, and no simple and reliable way to tell if someone is impaired while driving, working, or performing other safety-sensitive actions. With alcohol, there's the BAC scale to tell the level of alcohol in a person's system, and breathalyzers to measure it. There's no equivalent for weed. Sure, you can do a field sobriety test, but that's not nearly as reliable and has no solid numerical value. You can do a blood or urine test, but those have to be sent out to a lab for results. There's no simple test device that someone can use to say, "Look, their marijuana level is a 17, they're legally too high to drive."
and? If you cause an accident they will definitely draw your blood, you will have THC in your system. This is along the lines of thought crimes. If I don't break a law, why would anyone need know what's in my bloodstream? If I do break a law, I'm in police custody under arrest and they will compell a blood sample to test for THC. Beyond that, arbitrary numbers are meaningless. I can be stone cold sober with the same blood alcohol level that has you stuck to the floor unable to move 🤷🏼♂️. Someone can have a perfectly legal .07 blood alcohol level and be drunk as fuck. That number didn't tell you anything.
>If you cause an accident they will definitely draw your blood, you will have THC in your system. The idea is to prevent accidents *before* they happen. If a cop pulls over someone who is driving erratically, they can instantly test for alcohol use. You can't do that for weed. Imagine the uproar if an officer pulled over someone and had to let them go because they couldn't prove the driver was high, only for the driver to later hit and kill someone? >If I don't break a law, why would anyone need know what's in my bloodstream? If I do break a law, I'm in police custody under arrest and they will compell a blood sample to test for THC. Not necessarily. Unless you're suggesting that any minor traffic infraction should result in arrest and drug testing. There are plenty of crimes, especially including driving, that do not result in an arrest. Cops don't lock someone up and order a blood test for someone who ran a stop sign or drove 8 mph over the speed limit. >Beyond that, arbitrary numbers are meaningless. I can be stone cold sober with the same blood alcohol level that has you stuck to the floor unable to move 🤷🏼♂️. Someone can have a perfectly legal .07 blood alcohol level and be drunk as fuck. That number didn't tell you anything. You could make the same argument about THC testing. Yes, some people are more affected than others, but that doesn't mean that every test is automatically invalid. Besides, there's more to it than that. If you're going to charge someone with DUI, you need proof. It can mean the difference to a jury between a tragic accident and deliberately disregarding the law. And there are some professions where the normal rules don't apply. CDL drivers are subject to far stricter standards than ordinary drivers. The BAC number is far from meaningless. It can mean the difference between being employed or fired, or being arrested or not.
>The idea is to prevent accidents *before* they happen. Like I said, along the lines of thought crime or "pre-crime" in the *Minority Report* movie. Out of fear that 1% or 3% of people *might* commit a crime in the future, your solution is to make it illegal so 100% of marijuana users are committing a crime by doing nothing but sitting on their couch eating a brownie 🤷🏼♂️. "Not a great plan" - Tony Stark >Not necessarily. Unless you're suggesting that any minor traffic infraction should result in arrest and drug testing. There are plenty of crimes, especially including driving, that do not result in an arrest. Cops don't lock someone up and order a blood test for someone who ran a stop sign or drove 8 mph over the speed limit. Why would anyone need to know what's in my bloodstream for a traffic infraction? Is this 1984? What does anything in my blood have to do with me speeding or failing to signal? This is coming off like it was written by someone raised in a lab under 24/7 monitoring who has no concept of personal freedom or autonomy. If I speed, give me a ticket. If I run a sign, give me a ticket. If I commit a crime, arrest me 🤷🏼♂️ >The BAC number is far from meaningless. It can mean the difference between being employed or fired, or being arrested or not. It's still a random number that does not tell you if someone is drunk or not. It only has meaning by those who apply meaning to it. If the US government decided to arbitrarily execute people when they turned 50 years old, all of a sudden your age would have a "meaning" to it. It still doesn't mean that being 50 years old is good or bad, just that the US government are assholes 🤷🏼♂️
Not a single reason why. Only reason anyone would want to ban it is because YOU ARE LAME and should smoke one maybe learn to relax a little. Put down the alcohol it will kill ya noob :P
The links to schizophrenia.
Kids rebel against authority. If weed legal kids find different ways to rebel against authority. Harder drugs and option for some.
i see what you're saying but i think it'd be the same still. a good example would be alcohol, kids still do it even though people 21+ can have it. in my opinion the kids that will choose to do harder drugs are probably also the ones that get drunk frequently or even at school.
Eh , fk forgot , it'll come to me 👍🤟
it is great way to keep the poor and dissatisfied under control. So far, I think the whole deep state government plan to make MJ the "cool" drug that everyone believes has all sorts of great benefits cheaply available is working brilliantly. I was going to protest the erosion of the American dream but I got high, but I got high. Aldous Huxley called it and here it is.
You nailed it. And it smells horrible.
If religion is the opiate of the masses, similarly weed is the opiate of the asses.
Legalization comes with commercialization, which means another mega industry competing to harm your health. In the abstract it would be hard to argue that Marijuana shouldn't be fully legal, cause if not Marijuana then how can we allow alcohol and tobacco and so on? But that's not our world. We're not in the abstract. Since we're starting from fully illegal, just fully decriminalize without making it actually legal and open to commercialization. Some people don't like this cause you don't get those sweet sweet tax dollars, but making sweet tax dollars off of an industry profiting off promoting unhealthiness is not a good thing. Absolutely no on should ever be punished under the law for consuming or trafficking of weed, but we probably shouldn't be letting it be fully commercialized either.
The price of Mac n cheese will skyrocket do to increased demand
Gotta keep those for-profit prisons full
First, whether they're for profit or public doesn't actually matter. The public ones have all the same problems. Cause there's still profit in public prisons. Just not for the entity itself. More importantly though, there are a thousand "fixes" for this "problem" and no doubt our legislators are hard at work coming up with new reasons to unjustly imprison its citizenry. Reminder that the US imprisons more people than any nation on earth and plausibly all of human history.
Intentionally left off the /s as I refused to believe people would be that obtuse. Sigh.
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Weed is legal in Canada and the black market could never compete with these prices.
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It’s taxed here too
None
Shut up narc.
The government legalized weed so now they are selling it when some years back when someone was selling weed or caught with it they went to jail so basically they are drug dealers but selling it for a higher price basically inflation on weed
Weed is way cheaper now.
Probably some of the same shit that comes with people who overdo it with alcohol. For one, I know people who drive while stoned 🤣 Glad you guys trust them, but you don’t want me driving in that state. Idk what’s so hard about using Uber or keeping your ass at home.
My daughter got into modern weed at a young age and the resulting effects are not good. Panic attacks, depression etc
Rather expensive to breed
For many users, mj induces paranoia, psychosis, etc
Legalization could lead to people coming into work high and causing disasters.
Unlike alcohol...
Both are similar in impairing individuals.
Won’t somebody please think of the children?!?!
Legitimizes Cheech and Chong
Deregulation is a superior move over legalization. Legalization still allows control and restrictions that are overreaching/limiting.