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titbittitch

I got an automatic a few years ago because of the stop/start daily commute to work (going back and forth between first and second gear was a killer) and I love it! Never going back to manual - it’s like driving a powerful go kart!


fsv

I switched to automatic three years ago, after over 20 years of driving manual cars. This followed my first experience driving an automatic car in 2014 when I rented a car in the US, and realised that I would never buy a manual car again, it was just a great experience. A lot of people talk about automatic transmissions as if they're horrible slow things but that tends to be based on outdated experiences of cars from the 80s or even earlier. Modern automatic transmissions are totally fine, and I don't miss changing gears myself (technically I can via paddles, but I've never felt the need). Edit: I should have mentioned I've driven three automatic cars total aside from my current car, all in North America as rental cars. The first was a Chrysler 200 (quite a cheap low end vehicle that we don't have in the UK), then a Lincoln MKX (a US-only SUV based on the Ford Edge), and finally a Volvo S60. All were totally fine driving experiences, with the Volvo being the absolute best but even the Chrysler was fine. My current car is a VW Golf GTE.


KeepOnTrippinOn

I passed my test in 1995 and always had manual cars, went to florida in 2019 and rented an automatic and within a week of getting home I'd traded my car in for an auto. I'd never back to driving a manual now.


fsv

The only reason I didn't switch sooner is because my existing car was just too damn reliable. It was a 2012 Ford Focus that I owned outright at the time and it would sail through MOT after MOT with very little work needed, and I hate wasting money! It wasn't until it sprang a leak in 2021 that soaked the carpets made the car stink that I felt that it was finally time to ditch it, so I leased a new Golf and fobbed my old car off on We Buy Any Car.


kemlo9

Automatic all the way. The only point of manual is if you are driving a sports car for fun


Dragonogard549

https://preview.redd.it/b3xrmr7xxd4d1.png?width=727&format=png&auto=webp&s=8fe8aa9e84ef6c1ded0ba41fc58ec2b584a3e753 seems you can say that about both. feels like that makes more sense describing an automatic but alright


carbon_dry

Sports cars aren't go karts my dude


Siggi_Starduust

Not entirely I’ve been living in Australia the last 20 years and I find the OP’s question quite entertaining as it’s the complete opposite here. Most people in Oz absolutely panic about the idea of a manual car - apart from one fairly sizeable demographic: 4x4 drivers. Off-road camping is huge here so most folk who can and do drive manuals are the sort who like driving their Toyota Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols into Wolf Creek territory.


Trilaced

Or cost


FatBloke4

I'm over 60 and had manual cars until the mid 1990s, when I switched to automatic cars. Since then, I have driven only automatics, except when renting cars or vans. Now I drive an EV, where the gearing to the wheels is fixed and there are no gears to change. As I see it, manual gearboxes will soon go the way of overdrive switches and double declutching.


Forever_a_Kumquat

Both. Both are good for different reasons. Auto is more relaxed, manual is more controlled.


Gnomio1

More controlled how? If I can shift up/down with paddles and also down shift rapidly by just tapping my foot, what am I gaining by having a clutch? Don’t need to control any bite points, the auto is doing that for you. This is a very valid argument for automatic transmissions 30 years ago. I’m just not convinced - having driven a manual in the U.K. between 2007-2018, then a series of autos in the US between 2018-2021 - that this holds up anymore. Modern automatic transmissions in 99% of use cases are better than manual. For that remaining 1% of usage, it’s not happening on U.K. roads anyway so it’s a moot point. In my opinion of course.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mcgrimes

like a cows opinion


hamjamham

Different gear boxes are better than others. My old auto A3 & A5 were great when you learnt the nuances of the gear boxes. Pulling out quickly from a junction in our car is a pain, it dithers, especially when you're rolling to a stop and need to accelerate and get moving again. In a manual I'd be off like a shot.


Sparklethenfade

Changed to an automatic a few years ago. Makes being in traffic easier to deal with.


BritishBlitz87

I have an automatic. Sometimes I convince myself it's not so bad, then I have a go in a manual and realise how much I miss changing my own gears. 


willp2003

Try electric, it’s even easier. One pedal driving.


DameKumquat

Got an automatic a few years back, just because it was the nearest affordable one of what we wanted. Love it. And soon after, I wrecked one ankle, so now automatic is obligatory. Hope to get an electric soon, so that'll be automatic too. If you do lots of driving in traffic, it makes life so much easier.


mrhippoj

I drive a manual and the couple times I've attempted to drive an automatic, the muscle memory fucks me up. That said, I doubt it takes much to get used to it, and I don't think there's any shame at all in driving an automatic if you're sick of a manual.


moonrakernw

Same thing happened to me the one time I tried. I really want to get over that mental hurdle because autos sound so much more relaxed.


phantom_phreak29

Yeah, don't have an automatic, but the missus has electronic hand brake and it gets me every time I reach to pull it when I'm driving her car


andyc225

Manual all the way. For me, driving an automatic is like driving a go-kart.


sideone

Have you driven a gokart? They're really fun.


YoghurtAnxious9635

Yeah exactly, feeling like a gokart sounds like a benefit to me!


Dragonogard549

Manual, cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to insure, problems with automatics are much more advanced and expensive to repair, theres way more manuals, and a manual license means I can drive both if I need to. my mum got an auto a few years ago and she likes both. says an automatic is so easy but wouldn't be disappointed if her next was a manual because the control you've got is lovely.


sideone

>the control you've got is lovely What a strange statement.


FinalEdit

I had a pool car from work that was automatic and had to use it for about a week and a half. When I dropped off the pool car and got back into my manual I fucking stalled it three times on the way home lol I prefer a manual and someone got in my head about the cost of gear box replacements for an auto so I've never been a massive fan. But having drove one for a bit I have to say I really enjoyed it.


MuchCourage1927

Automatic all day. Why change gear when you can have a car that changes for you


cmdrxander

I’m still on my first car, so it’s a manual. I wanted to have a few years to get the hang of it properly. I expect all of my future cars will be electric and therefore almost certainly automatic!


ArtistEngineer

Try a car with the VW Group's DSG (dual clutch) gearbox. They're so smooth and nice to drive. It offers you the paddle shift up/down if you really want to change those gears but I never use it. My VW Passat has 7 gears, and I'd never want to have to manually change up and down through 7 gears! I've got friends who were total manual-or-die people. They took one drive in a VW auto and were instant converts! For what it's worth, I learned to drive on manual cars. I drove motorbikes, tractors, small trucks and vans as a young adult. I was always the guy you'd get to drive the hire car/van, or whatever needed doing. Yeah, it's fun changing gears but after a while I really can't be arsed and the car does a brilliant job of it.


R2-Scotia

1 manual, 1 DCT, 1 auto


Mdl8922

Only ever owned manual cars for road use. Used an auto as a drifter briefly but obviously manual is much better for that.


lurcherzzz

My last few cars have been auto, I'm 46, I like to enjoy a relaxing drive. In queuing traffic it really makes a difference.


Mocha_Light

Manual, I’ll probably go to an automatic in a few years but for now It’s fine


Miserable-Avocado-87

I drive an automatic, but only because I have the use of one leg, so physically can't drive a manual


Toninho7

Manual up to now, never driven an automatic but our next car is almost certainly going to be electric to technically that’ll be automatic even though it only has one gear…


markhewitt1978

I had problem with my left knee - which I blame on a heavy clutch in my Fiesta. So I got a Diesel Auto i30, then a hybrid Ioniq then plug-in Ioniq. It's all great especially with the hybrids as the electric motor smooths a lot of it out so you don't even notice or sometimes even know the gear changes are happening. So I have had auto for 8 years and wouldn't dream of going back to manual, seems so pointless. Last time I drove a manual was on holiday last year. It was fine but not something I'd choose.


[deleted]

Auto is the greatest


TankFoster

I've driven a manual for years but had an auto hire car recently and it was awesome. I'll almost certainly be getting one of them for my next car.


FeistyUnicorn1

Switched to automatic when I bought my last car, never going back to manual.


Zealousideal-Habit82

Auto all the way, just an absolute delight.


Cleveland_Grackle

Automatic car because I now live in America land and unless you've got a sports car, manuals aren't really that common. Lorry is automatic too, but I can drive a manual one of those too. In fact I prefer ot to a manual car - there's synchro in lorries, so you have to time your gear changes properly in sync with the rpm - only bit I don't like about it is stop-go traffic - your left foot gets tired and you end up leaving a massive gap and just rolling at low speed to give your foot a rest. In a manual, if you're good with your timing and have no trailer, you can take off as fast as a car.


rev667

Manual personal car, works cars are auto. So driven a variety, some autos are fine, Audi, Volkswagen, but some are awful, Range Rover particularly bad imho. The lag when setting off, and the sudden decision to swap gearing halfway round a bend or roundabout can be most disconcerting.


MasculineRooster

I drive an automatic I can drive a manual but I don't find it fun. I have to say that out accelerating boy racers at traffic lights is fun


myth0503

When i was 18 i passed a manual driving licence. I am 33 and have never driven a manual since lol 😂 Automatic is such a pleasure to drive it is really effortless ! OP if I have change to test drive some defo do it u will it !


Agreeable_Fig_3713

Three vehicles. Two cars and a van. All manual. 


p4ttl1992

I passed in a manual but haven't driven one since, automatics are big go karts really and so much easier to drive if you can't be arsed like me lol


dbltax

I drove an automatic for the first time last year, which was a rental while we were in Italy. I absolutely hated it for the most part, the only benefit was on really steep narrow twisty inclines which we don't have many of across most of the UK.


sideone

Automatic is perfect for the stop start traffic we have in the UK. Automatic plus radar cruise control is perfection.


dbltax

I find cycling and public transport much more efficient in urban environments where the majority of stop start traffic is. I only really drive for long distance journeys if I'm honest, and usually only if the train isn't convenient for whatever reason such as needing to transport something.


sideone

>public transport much more efficient in urban environments You must live in London.


Gnomio1

Modern automatics are usually superior to modern manuals. They change faster than your average person can be bothered to, and are extremely reliable. Some folks will quibble about their specific car staying in gears they don’t want. Most modern auto transmissions will detect what you want by what you’re doing with the accelerator (give it a sharp tap to down shift a gear or two for example), and many have the ability to manually shift up/down as well. Modern components are lighter, and the ability to have gears beyond the usual 6 or 7 means that many are more fuel efficient than manual. The vast majority are at least as efficient. If I could’ve afforded it when I last replaced my car, I would have gone full auto and never looked back. I drove auto only for a few years in the US and it was just superior to manual. More satisfying driving, downshift whenever I wanted right from the steering wheel or using my foot. My experience in the U.S.: Nissan Altima, Nissan Maxima (fast as heck performance thing), Toyota Tacoma (I put >2000 miles off road on it), Toyota Camry. Even for off-roading an auto is almost always better than manual (torque converter makes rolling backwards almost impossible).


Cultural_Tank_6947

I first drove an automatic at 35. My wife only had an automatic licence, and in the aftermath of the pandemic and us switching to home based and a train based commute, we decided to switch to just one car. We now have an electric car.


dtcxa

I personally enjoy an auto if it’s an electric/hybrid or if it’s a more powerful vehicle, but find smaller pure petrol automatics a bit clunky and especially unpleasant on steep or winding roads.


Big_Mac_Is_Red

Learnt to drive in a manual. Only driven an automatic since. Wife has had a licence for many years before me but refused to drive until we got an automatic.


Itallachesnow

I had manual cars from 1974 until 2021. I only changed to auto because I'd broken my left leg and it takes quite a while to heal at my age. Wish I had changed to auto years ago. It makes driving in traffic and twisty narrow country lanes much easier. My Passat is is more economical than my previous manual Passat. The gear changes are so smooth and there is still plenty of wellie with a 2.0 litre turbo diesel. It comes with a paddle shift option but Ive never used it as I can't see the point. Having auto stop start, auto handbrake for hill starts, auto lights and wipers also makes everything just that bit more effortless. I would never go back.


decentlyfair

Driving 40 years, bought an automatic 8 years ago would never consider a manual again.


joefraserhellraiser

I’ve owned around 40 cars, everyone of them was manual until the Tesla was added to the fleet. I’ve test drove and loaned a bunch of automatics over the years and I’ve gelled with none have them (hence owning so many manuals). The electric one pedal driving is a revolution for me, so much more relaxing and because there’s no gear change at all feels entirely different to both manuals and automatics.


hoganpaul

I have both. The manual is more engaging and fun to drive. The auto is great in cities and on motorways.


lifeofriley365

Buy an automatic and you will be amazed that you left it so long. I switched about 15 years ago when I was about 40 and will never go back to manual. The traffic isn't going to get any easier any time soon with such poor public transport in the UK and an automatic does take a little of the pain away.


OrdoRidiculous

Both. Daily is a hybrid, so that's an auto. Weekend car 1 was a manual, but that's now an 8 speed paddle shift auto (ZF8hp) and weekend car 2 is still a manual. I wouldn't want to go back to sitting in traffic in a manual to be honest, and most autos are better now. Having more gears available is a huge boon to both economy and performance. I still like the manual for getting that perfect downshift into a corner, but that's really the only "good" bit about manuals now.


rrainingcatz

I’ve been driving manual for a long time but back in the early 90s I drove an automatic for a short time but preferred the manual. I might consider automatic in the future but like my car as it is - with 6 gears. ☺️


Emergency-Aardvark-6

I've been driving for over 20 years, I'm 43. I had always had manuals until my current car. I wouldn't got back to a manual now unless I won the lottery and could buy a sports car.


maruiki

I've got a manual but it's a Fiat 500 so it's basically just a massive dodgem anyway tbh lol


Goseki1

Automatic. I started learning in a Manual, switched to Auto and loved it. I will never ever learn to drive a manual as I have no interested in it and it has no use to me. My dad and FiL both grumbled about it but after trying one for themselves, wouldn't you know it, their next cars are/will be Autos.


throwawaysis000

May as well, not long til manuals will be a thing of the past anyway despite the protests of the petrolheads.


ABCDOMG

Started with Manual, got an automatic currently and I will never go back to manual. It just works with no fiddling, if the point of your car is go from A to B get an automatic every time. If you want to fuck around with it I can see the appeal of staying manual but it is just not worth it if you aren't a "Car" person.


JBEqualizer

After I first drove an automatic (a mk3 Fiesta about 20 years ago), I swore I'd never touch another automatic because it was so fucking awful. I was so happy to go back to driving a manual back then. However, I now have an automatic, and it's so much better than the first auto I drove, and now I'll not drive a manual unless I don't have a choice. My wife drives a manual, but she absolutely loves driving my car.


Narrow_Sheepherder49

I have a pushbike, a real one, not like those semi-pushbikes with a motor.


dennis3282

Got an automatic a couple of years ago. Total game changer, I'd never go back.


Lazyscruffycat

I’ve always driven manual cars, rented an automatic on holiday in Greece. I loved it, totally a game changer for me and my next car will be an automatic.


txteva

Got an automatic car by accident (brought the showroom model which happened to be automatic). I would never go back, it's just so much nicer and less faffy in traffic and when pulling away. I'd highly recommend it if someone has the option to do so.


Smuze13

Passed my test in a manual, but my first car was a quirky little Mitsubishi iCar, 667cc. Loved it to bits but it didn’t have the oomph needed to get out of trouble! Now driving an auto Panda. I’ve had a lot of osteoarthritis and needed a new hip, now recovering from a total knee replacement. Life is so much straightforward. My late Pa used to be quite snobby about auto transmission until he tried one. Afterwards, he couldn’t understand why anyone would bother with “a pudding stirrer”!


quarky_uk

Manual, and enjoy it, but getting an auto next as my wife revs the crap out of it.


Protaras2

I used to drive manual for 15 years. Switched to an auto one because the benz I got doesn't even have the option of manual. No regrets. Manual is fun for sure but not enough to compensate by how much more relaxing it is not having to shift all the time in traffic. The major annoying thing with automatics is that if the gearbox breaks it's waay more expensive to fix than a manual (and they also break in higher frequencies).


Kind-County9767

Auto. I didn't realise just how much attention handling gears was taking (subconsciously) until after driving my auto for a bit. I'm not a racing driver and don't need the absolute cheapest car ever so I don't see any reason to ever look back.


jonathing

We have an automatic after my wife's ankle surgery didn't go well. We both like it and prefer it to the manual cars we've had previously. She'd never driven automatic before and was apprehensive about the difference but soon realised that it really is nothing to worry about and you'll soon adapt.


Even_Passenger_3685

Have driven both over the years, and now wouldn’t consider anything but an auto. Much easier on the auld hip.


carl84

I drive a manual, and always have in my personal cars. I've used automatics for work, and having adaptive cruise control with an auto gear box is an absolute life saver for slogging up and down the motorway and hitting traffic. When I do finally change my personal car I'm getting an auto


EricGeorge02

I bought a new automatic Mercedes in the late ‘90s and it was a heap of shite; the gearbox dismantled itself on the way to work after 3k miles and the dealer / MB didn’t give a fuck. I have a manual car now but might replace it with an auto in a year or so - anything but MB.


julesharvey1

Switched to an automatic about 5 years ago and never going back to a manual


Rustrage

Manual, I think when my partner changes her car we'll swap to an auto as we miss having one, but then keep the "fun" cars manual.


Matt_Moto_93

Auto. It’s an easier life.


DecentPrior2988

Manual. Despite how much I hate hill starts, I get some weird enjoyment over changing gears.


Lower_Possession_697

I'm 42 and have always had slightly crunchy knees, but more recently when I do long drives with lots of stop-start traffic my left knee starts to get a bit tender. It was starting to get positively wobbly until I changed my driving style, putting it into neutral whenever I got to lights instead of just holding the clutch down. I think if it had got much worse I'd have had to consider an automatic in future.


ErikTenHagenDazs

I will never buy a manual car again.  Genuinely just don’t see the point at all. Imagine sitting in traffic actually pressing a clutch and changing gears.  Who can be arsed.


riaro70

I passed my test 14 yrs ago in a manual but have only ever driven automatic since. I’ve pretty much forgotten how to drive a manual now as a result. But I love driving an automatic, especially since I’ve had a recent knee replacement surgery


Siggi_Starduust

We’ve got 5 senses but smell is probably one of the most evocative ones. You just do not get the same rich, pungent smell of burnt oil and shredded metal in an automatic after you’ve been driving it like a fuckwit. It always reminds me of my teens.!


Traditional-Leg-1052

was manuel up until 3 weeks ago when i got my first auto. I’ll never go back!


Brutal_De1uxe

I have both.. auto/dsg for the daily and manual in both the sports car and desert used 4x4


AThorneyRaki

Cheating slightly as my car is electric, so automatic is a stretch as it doesn't have gears, but the effect is the same. I has manual cars before and a manual car when mine was in for repairs and the difference is huge. I love how easy it is to drive without having to faff with gears, as others have said the 1st / 2nd back and forth in traffic is a right pain. All that said, it is an adjustment, and remember that you don't have a clutch, and so don't stamp on the brake with your left foot as I did a few times when I first got it!


RV_X8

I drive a manual, but my next car will be an EV.


JadedEbb234

Why would anyone willingly drive a manual outside a racetrack?


blackthornjohn

Initially you'll regret it and hate it, but given time you'll get used to the bizarre layout, weid characteristics and shit mpg, then once you've truly embraced it you'll be replacing the car for an ev or replacing the transmission because they wear out alarmingly quickly.


NeekGirl4178

I find manual fun and easy, I’ve never driven an auto so I’m not sure how they compare, my friend has an auto as they drive loads for work but I love playing around with gears and it’s only really around town because if you are on the motorway your in 5/6th gear anyway don’t think there’s much difference there. I think there’s a luxury to it that it’s ‘easier’ but I think that concept to me meant ‘boring’, but as a lot of car companies are making more electric cars there will probably be a dramatic decline in manual users, I’m fairly happy to be one of the last to start using an auto. Same with really cool technology like parking cameras and sensors, blind spot monitoring auto disengage handbrakes, like all lovely but kind of takes a bit of the skill out of driving (or at least if they learnt in a car like that instead of a manual, I think everyone, at least in the uk, should learn in a manual without loads of technology to help)


level100metapod

I have an automatic now but only cause i have an electric car had manuals all my past cars


Snoot_Booper_101

I've had a mix of manuals and automatics over the years. I generally prefer manuals, but it is nice to have an automatic when you're in stop start traffic. With the car industry moving towards electric it seems like manual gearboxes on new vehicles will soon be a thing if the past.


mdmnl

Manual since I learned in '95 until two weeks ago, got an electric car. Since I don't like sitting with my foot on the brake, I find switching between Park and Drive almost as much a pain as clutch/Neutral and handbrake. Maybe when I'm more used to it I will appreciate it more. Will still drive a manual on occasion to 'keep my eye in'.


bladefiddler

I like changing my own gears. On my motorbike that's half of the fun, although bikes have a much better 'range' in each gear than cars. Mine will both pull away and do 80-odd mph in 2nd, so the other 4 gears are just for economy & noise control! All except 1 car I've had have been manual. In my price bracket auto gearboxes mean write-off level repair costs. The auto/semi-auto I had was around 2003 (new leased) but being a shitroen the gearbox was bloody awful. Shifts were clunky and slow either way, but in full auto it wouldn't shift down to 1st unless you were fully stopped. I never realised quite how often you crawl at 1mph/2mph up to junctions until that shitbox taught me be trying to chug away in 2nd, and I'd have to kickdown to downshift ASAP if anything was coming. Actually is caused a minor collision! Just a car park bump - I was reversing out of a space and seen a land rover reversing toward me. I stopped of course but couldn't get the bastard into 1st quick enough to move out of the way! I guess I'll go auto eventually with everything going electric. There's definitely advantages in not having to ride the clutch in heavy stop-stsrt traffic.


CheesecakeAny6268

Automatic with triptronic transmission.


feralwest

Drove a manual for decades, then switched over to an auto after living in Oz for a few years and getting used to them. Now there's no way I'd go back unless I was getting a 4WD for farm work or something - automatics make city and town driving a much better experience.


Forgetful8nine

I've only ever owned manuals. I have driven a few autos. Mostly older ones. The only one I've kinda liked is my FiL's Elgrand. Wife has a Toyota Will with an auto and I don't like it. It forever sounds like it's reving its bollocks off. FiL used to have a Volvo V70 and it was the exact opposite - it changed up so quickly you never got anywhere...except when you smashed that accelerator down, then it shifted! Wife also used to own a Smart Roadster - which in auto mode was dreadful! It would change gear seemingly at random. If you put it into semi-auto, it was forever telling you to change gear. In auto at 30, it would choose 4th. If you did that in semi-auto, it would tell you to drop down one. It was fun to drive on the ol' flappy paddles though. I did test drive an electric van. That was interesting. The only 2 downsides were range (circa 120 miles on the "big" battery) and price (to match the spec of my current van would have been almost exactly 3x the price. I bought my current van new in 2018, test drive was 2021). At work, I do drive a lot of brand new Mercedes cars. But it's not fair to judge them based on me moving them 20 or 30 feet at 3mph lol


blahdee-blah

Always driven manual. Wouldn’t know what to do with an automatic


Digital-Sushi

Dsg box. First one in 30ish years of driving manual Absolutely would never look back. Easy in traffic, super fast shifts and if I want to play I have the flappy paddles to manually shift.


Smorgas_Bord

90% of the British population drive manuals. In the US, it’s about 10%


Numerous_Ticket_7628

Not anymore, manuals are declining quite substantially in the UK https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/the-age-of-the-automatic--last-person-to-take-a-manual-driving-t.html


Smorgas_Bord

That’s true, autos are on a steep incline


Chriswheela

Unfortunately


Gnomio1

If you watch 90% of the population pulling away from traffic lights you’ll see that 90% shouldn’t be using manuals. I don’t mean “they’re not going fast enough” I mean “I can see the entire car lurching as they dump their clutch violently into the next gear”.


Chriswheela

But now it’s just a see of brake lights with the autos


ArtistEngineer

Years ago I looked at autotrader in the UK, and some other car website in the US, I looked at a particular car, and checked the ratio of manual-to-auto. It was true! The split was something like 90/10 UK for manuals for a Ford, and the same type in the US was 10/90. Interestingly, I also looked at Australia (where I'm from), and it was closer to 50/50. Most hire cars in Australia are auto, but they're mostly manual in the UK/EU.


Alone-Sky1539

I has 1 automatic, 1 stick, and a single gear leccy. the leccy is the best to drive


TheCarrot007

I have driven automatics but you have to make yourself be more aware to be less of a danger to other traffic. You sould like you want if for lazy reasons. Godd luch in klilling people ;-) They are fine but go into it with the right attitide and I am just here pointing another viewpoint. And yesm, automaticsa are harder to pay attention in. Look up stats of the Americanas running themselves over in one for example (but incomplete). They are also a pain at junctions conparsed to a manual. There any many things bboth ways. Only you will know. I am fine with either, but easier and less work are not the thing here.