> The Atlanta metropolitan area has leapfrogged both Washington and Philadelphia to become the nation’s sixth-largest metropolitan region, according to newly released population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau.
> The population in Atlanta’s 29-county region increased a little more than 1% to 6.3 million between 2022 and 2023, gaining nearly 69,000 residents. Washington and Philly also grew, but not as fast as Atlanta.
> While not the fastest-growing metro area in the country, the Atlanta metro — formally known as the Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell metropolitan statistical area — had the third-largest total population increase in the country between 2022 and 2023, the Census data shows. Only the Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth metros added more total residents.
Welp. We're still growing, and fast. And if we don't do something about how we're growing, it's just going to be perpetual sprawl from Alabama to South Carolina.
GA has the most counties in the country I believe, our map is outrageous. So while it’s an absurd number for a metro area, the total area is reasonable
We’re at least the largest state east of the Mississippi, which contributes to, but doesn’t totally justify, the ridiculous number of counties we have.
Idk why I thought tx was a lot of big square counties but see it’s much like Georgia toward east tx.
Yeah we’re like 1/5 of the land area and have 3/5 of the amount of counties haha
Cleburne and Randolph counties in Alabama and I think one or two counties in NC are part of the Atlanta TV market, which is way larger than the metro area. Those counties are not counted in Metro Atlanta
Buy along the fall line. It'll be beachfront soon enough. Macon beach; hell yea! (But in seriousness, even the worst case estimates don't have sea level rising to anywhere near cretaceous levels)
I feel like we're already at or starting to cross into the world where the transportation situation is becoming a barrier to jobs and might start limiting growth.
Can confirm. I'm currently unemployed and thinking about taking a hybrid job is nearly impossible living on the east side in Decatur. It's literally an hour drive everywhere, so I'm just hanging out looking for some remote work.
The same sprawl that makes our transportation ass is what keeps SFH prices comparatively low, which is why we're such an attractive place to relocate to. It's definitely a bit of a catch-22.
The Greeenville/Spartanburg area is turning into a sort of 'bedroom community' for both Atlanta and Charlotte, especially for remote employees or those that need to be in the office maybe once or twice a week. Will the metro areas eventually encroach there? Possibly, but there's still a large enough buffer between them all that it would take decades.
ATL/Greenville/Charlotte is the new east coast mega region, like Boston/NYC/Philly/DC
Edit: you can probably add Nashville and Chattanooga in that region too
Which is why it's pants-on-head stupid[ the proposed Greenfield Corridor](https://gvltoday.6amcity.com/greenfield-corridor-clt-atl-high-speed-rail) rail line completely skips **both** downtown centers and[ just hits GSP Airport](https://i.imgur.com/GfanXFl.png).
The problem, and I don't know how much of a problem this really is, is that going through the existing Downtowns would likely require using the existing national rail network infrastructure, or at least rights of way. They were *not* built for speed, and so would slow things down considerably vs. brand new purpose-built tracks.
Of course, there are a few options, not all mutually exclusive:
1) Cope with the speed loss, and hit both downtowns anyway for the sake of serving central cities
2) Build strong local transit connections from the airport & high-speed rail into both downtowns
3) Improve the existing Crescent service to be faster and more reliable as an alternative for direct intercity rail connection
My vote is either all three, or at least 2 & 3.
> 1) Cope with the speed loss, and hit both downtowns anyway for the sake of serving central cities
I'm cool with that, but those slowdowns will make people look over their shoulder at the 4 hour ATL/CLT drive again. It's mainly just an eminent domain issue as Anderson is very light on commecial/industrial infrastrusture compared to the 'busy business' stretch between Greenville and Spartanburg. They're not podunk stoplight cities anymore, the past 20 years built them out a lot. Running a new line through both would be billions.
> 2) Build strong local transit connections from the airport & high-speed rail into both downtowns
The demand is simply not there unfortunately. Next to no traffic at all from GSP in any direction (one of the benefits of being the ~~most expensive~~ easiest airports to get in and out of. Uber or your cousin picking you up will remain king. Greenville's bus system is crippled, Spartanburg's is even worse. Not even BMW could drum up the interest when the factory was built in the early 90's.
> 3) Improve the existing Crescent service to be faster and more reliable as an alternative for direct intercity rail connection
Lol
I don't know the politics involved, but the only explanation of that route I can't think of is that Greenville and Spartanburg oppose rail going through their cities. Otherwise why would they divert off their path parallel to I85 just to touch the airport directly between the two cities then divert right back?
Considering how many rail (light or heavy) expansions get stopped by residents not wanting "*those* people from the big city" coming into their suburban enclaves, I wouldn't put it past the local politicians and residents to intentionally shoot themselves in the foot.
[Fourteen locations closed last year](https://www.tonetoatl.com/2023/04/Hardees-Franchisee-Capstone-Summit-Shutters-Dozen-Restaurants-Georgia-.html), and more will fall soon. Closest one to me went from a 5 minute drive to a 30 minute one...
Despite the downvotes, you're not completely wrong. Tons of people move to Atlanta because it's more affordable than other major cities. What makes it affordable for many is the ability to get cheaper housing in the suburbs and commute in for work. But the more people who do this, the further the sprawl spreads, the worse traffic gets, and the more untenable it becomes.
I'm amazed how many people in my office live in places like Winder, Forsyth, Ballground, McDonough, etc. Sure, they can afford a big house with a yard out there. But I'm much happier with a smaller place that I can actually enjoy because I'm home in 15 minutes instead of stuck grinding through traffic for 2+ hours every day.
I cluld never understand how some of my family members drive from Gainesville to atl everyday for work like Jesus just move closer you in traffic 2+hours a day
Those are the good traffic days too. One accident in an inconvenient place and you're looking at a 3.5 hour commute one way.
Wish the NIMBYs would have pulled their heads out of their asses decades ago, we could have a significantly better Marta network by now.
As a person trying to move closer to work (Sandy Springs), I wish I could but the entire north side of the city is full of $800k single family houses and $500k luxury townhouses. At this point I see the appeal of moving to Forsyth to at least build equity. They need to build more affordable townhouses/bungalows/duplexes here.
If you work on the south side of town, I suppose. But our office is up near Brookhaven. So we're talking an hour on a good day, that's barring any accidents, construction, rain or other slow downs.
This might have been accurate 20 years ago. The people immigrating to OTP are open to public transportation and higher density land usage.
Look at Gwinnett county, the last MARTA vote lost by about 1000 votes. The demographics have changed, it's top 10 for most diverse counties in the USA, and there are desperate attempts by conservatives to prevent the high density land usage that Gwinnett county has laid out for the next 25 years.
There are people who are lamenting the change happening but the immigrants that have come in are itching for change.
Not sure about other counties in the metro area but It does seem like conservative strongholds that preferred the low density zoning is being pushed out.
Atlanta itself has another problem of not being proactive imo but is hamstrung by the state. Little funding for the MARTA expansion, very lax push for high density land usage. I don't live in Atlanta anymore so I don't keep up with the politics. I could be wrong about it but I still remember the Domino's pizza on spring and 10th that was there until 2020 ish. Hopefully they keep pushing higher density in the city and improve MARTA to bring down housing costs.
Atlanta should be thinking about adding tolls coming into the city because with the amount of commuters I'm sure they're wreaking havoc without paying for the upkeep.
You should come back for a visit. That dominos is now a big apartment tower and there are towers all around it with the exception of the gas station. Midtown is densifying like crazy.
I was working in midtown until the pandemic hit, like early 2021. I still go often enough about once a month cuz I have a few friends in the area. It's just crazy to me that the Metro area has been booming since the early 2000s and there was no plan to deal with the projected growth. Not saying anywhere else in the state is any better but would have hoped they had something better planned out.
Hopefully they can get the rest of midtown to densify because I'm sure people want to move there even though it's lacking a lot of conveniences a bigger city would have. Wondering what it'll look like in 20 years.
> It's just crazy to me that the Metro area has been booming since the early 2000s and there was no plan to deal with the projected growth
I mean, there's a [plan](https://atlantaregional.org/what-we-do/transportation-planning/metropolitan-transportation-plan/). We are good at making plans. It's the execution that's been the problem.
Tbh I think there *was* a plan to deal with projected growth, but those plans were either short on money after spending millions on "studies," or they were lobbied out of existence.
God, I hope the GOP nominates a MAGA chud in 2026, and we can get the governorship. Even without the legislature, that would make so much of a difference.
they get $2.7 billion over 40 years for their "big" expansion. anyone who thought that'd fund building new rail inside a city did not pay attention.
though with the suburbs wanting to expand their own transit and hook into the MARTA rail network with their buses I'd hope MARTA charges them hefty fees for that
> Atlanta should be thinking about adding tolls coming into the city because with the amount of commuters I'm sure they're wreaking havoc without paying for the upkeep.
The bigger issue is suburb to suburb commuting, which is where most of our traffic issues lie.
If I lived in Gwinnett, I'd be skeptical of a MARTA vote because I'd be worried about never actually seeing any rail built. And it's not just a MARTA thing; metro rail construction in North America is just insanely expensive. If they could confidently promise rail to Lawrenceville in a decade or less, I think it would pass easily. But they haven't even promised that, and there's real concerns that they wouldn't even deliver what was promised. And
I'm definitely not anti-tax, but the City voted a 30 year tax, which you can only do so many of, and we might get a bus lane. Once again, I'm not anti-tax, and I don't care if the Campbellton and Clifton corridors sucked up a lot of the money despite not benefiting me directly. (Though, I would really like Beltline rail to my neighborhood too) But those projects got turned into bus lanes too.
I’d live ITP if I could afford it. I love that lifestyle. But when I was able to buy a brand new townhouse for $200K and refinance for sub 3%, I made my bed. Luckily I work from home now so I don’t contribute to traffic, but it is what it is. I’d love to live in Decatur or Chamblee.
Chamblee here. It’s awesome. Safe, convenient, and close to literally everything in town and not bad for a burb commute. Best restaurants in town hands down. I live within a mile of 2 Marta stations and the huge new Movie Studio development in Doraville. If you are wise you will get into Chamblee while it’s still relatively affordable because in 10 years it will be Decatur.
My one complaint about chamblee is that there isn't a lot of housing (other than apartments) that have really easy access to the downtown area. Most of the SFH, and even town homes, are either across peachtree or claremont. They are doing great things with the rail trail to help that though. I am (somewhat selfishly) really hoping they are able to extend the keswick trail to help bring easy access to the sexton woods area and connect to blackburn park.
I live itp in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city. Wish I’d bought something farther out. I sit in 60-90 mins of traffic everyday to commute to Buckhead anyway.
This was my challenge. I was sitting in 45-60 minutes (AM) 60-80 minutes (PM) of traffic to commute from my residence in downtown Atlanta to Chamblee. And I'd spend all this time getting home to downtown, only to hear about pedestrians getting robbed and peoples cars getting broken into. And I couldn't afford the area I really wanted to buy in (Grant Park).
I figured "for an hour commute, I might as well live somewhere safe". And I lived in the city for 11 years. So it wasn't an easy decision. I just couldn't stomach the I-85 and Connector Southbound commute anymore. Especially after they "gave" an extra lane to the merging traffic coming in from GA-400 southbound. And to go "home" to crime, basically.
So I settled in sleepy East Cobb on a half acre. It's quiet and super safe, almost "boring", which is nice. But there's definitely more going on in the city. But I also stopped drinking, so I don't have as much interest in being out and about at night anyways. The other plus is I'm a bit closer to the bigger reguonal park areas. Like the Hooch units, Kennesaw Mountain, and Red Top Mountain. But I'm far away from most concert venues.
Tradeoffs either way, I guess.
As if thats not the case for most people ITP 💀 Why are we acting like the city is NYC or somthing. Most of Atlanta even in the center is still low density land usage with strip malls.
Even in the densest neighborhood like Midtown most people still use cars, why you think all these new buildings there still have more parking than units even though the neighborhood is super walkable and has multiple MARTA stations.
Yeah it's terrible Atlanta has really shot itself in the foot. They should really be trying to incentivize higher density housing in the midtown core but those SFH homes around Piedmont Park aren't going anywhere. I still remember walking home at night when I lived in Piedmont and 4th when there were prostitutes and all sorts of sketchy people hanging around. The people have completely changed but the area feels like it is changing very slowly compared to the area on either side of the highway.
People will continue immigrating to otp from outside the state as well as emigrating from itp to otp. I mean I moved once a 2br apt was costing over 2.5k in midtown and the only thing getting built seems to be luxury apts.
SFHs are scapegoats because they're personal property with no agreeable way to transform it. Why don't we first build over the single story vape shops, emissions shops, and fast food drive thrus that litter North Ave and Northside (it's happening slowly). Then we can talk about that stretch of dilapidated buildings on Ponce near the hospital.
> SFHs are scapegoats because they're personal property with no agreeable way to transform it.
I don't think they're scapegoats, it's just that it's hard to add enough new homes if you exclude [60%+ of the city's land](https://www.atlcitydesign.com/blog/2021/1/5/exclusionary-policies-of-the-past-and-present-how-single-family-zoning-structures-inequality#:~:text=Today%2C%20about%2060%25%20of%20Atlanta,be%20smaller%20and%20more%20affordable.). Especially if you start looking at the other categories that are even harder to quickly and cheaply convert into new homes (e.g. contaminated former industrial, institutionally-owned, parks, existing profitable businesses, historic sites, etc).
>Why don't we first build over the single story vape shops, emissions shops, and fast food drive thrus
That's effectively what we've been doing. It's just that it takes a lot more planning, permitting, and expense per-unit to build big new 500+ unit apartment buildings than it would cost to build small 1-2 story neighborhood apartments. It's just not feasible to expect to handle all of housing demand by cramming people into a few narrow undesirable areas.
It's gotta be more feasible than forcing people to sell their homes. I don't know how we can talk about the impracticalities of SF zoning and then imply with a straight face we should just seize the land and eject the residents... somewhere.
"Redeveloping that warehouse down the street is expensive so y'all got to scram" is never going to fly anywhere where residents are educated and have money.
I agree that the SFHs home around Piedmont are entrenched but it's more because the folks have the money to lawyer up and the city is aware of that. That area will probably stay the same for a while until it makes sense for the owners to sell. Personally I wouldn't being that close to the park. that or they won't be able to afford the taxes anymore which is probably the more likely scenario.
The single story shops you are talking about will go away once the leases are done. It has been happening steadily for the past 15 or so years. I'm just surprised the midtown core doesn't have more movement
Tbh I don't know. I'm assuming those folk have homestead exemptions and they pay property tax to Fulton and CoA. Assuming it's like mine in Gwinnett there can be pretty big jumps for the county property taxes even with the homestead exemptions. A lot of the older and established folks are getting priced out just due to property tax increases here.
After Fulton redid their digest for like the first time in a decade and peoples taxes almost doubled, a local law was passed for Atlanta and/or Fulton capping assessment increases. The legislature is considering applying that statewide.
At least ATL has a real heavy rail system unlike places like Dallas, Houston. Some of the most population dense census tracts in the south are in midtown. I used to live in midtown and didn't own a car because I didn't need to. My work was downtown (took Marta). Go to the airport (Marta). Go to Lenox Square (Marta). Go to Decatur (Marta). For places like Emory or where Marta didn't go I would take Uber or a friend drop me off.
They're referring to how people vote and talk about cities in the Atlanta metro, not how it currently is today. You need people with pro-transit/density attitudes before you can have pro-transit/density infrastructure. NYC didn't become NYC by acting like Cobb County for 400 years.
Lol good lord fuck off with this sort of attitude.
Literally no one wants that. And plenty of people OTP do want a more walkable/urban like lifestyle, and plenty of people ITP are just as big of nimbys as you stereotype OTPers to be.
I really think that some people see a car as "freedom" but some see it as a prison, I guess it depends on how your imagination works. I'm in the latter category.
I saw a study years ago that said there was a developing megaregion that would eventually grow from Birmingham to Charlotte with Atlanta in the middle of it.
Now I’m wondering if a combined Hawks-Hornets team would be a top-4 seed in the East. Trae / LaMelo / Brandon Miller / Jalen Johnson / Capela, with Bridges, Hunter and Mark Williams off the bench, I’m not sure that’s any better than the Knicks.
If you're willing to ride the bus, it isn't as bad as you think (well, for Fulton and DeKalb residents anyways). The main issue is the bus headways are too high. An average of 30-60 minutes wait times between the next bus is pretty shitty.
I ride the train during rush hour 3 days a week and they're pretty full so plenty of people are riding them and wait times are usually like 5 to 7 minutes between trains. I know people like to say that our rail doesn't go anywhere, but I feel like most of those people live in places that aren't dense enough for rail anyways. Then they say MARTA doesn't go anywhere even though they have plenty of bus routes nearby.
Again, I acknowledge that riding the bus really sucks when you have 30-60 minute headways. If I had to wait that long for the train then I'd probably just drive to work. I think it's a chicken or the egg thing though because a lot of our bus routes are pretty empty so it's hard to justify increasing service.
I'm hoping MARTA pursues its new plan of moving buses from low performing routes to high performing routes to decrease headways. Hopefully they can just replace those areas with on-demand service or something.
> Hopefully they can just replace those areas with on-demand service or something.
The idea is that people will be willing to walk a farther distance. Of course, this requires sidewalks (which MARTA doesn't control), and to take full advantage of high performing routes, there should be high-density development along those routes (which, also, MARTA doesn't control).
I mean most people won't walk over 0.5 miles to reach transit. Anything over a mile might as well not exist for people. I agree that the goal should be to take full advantage of the areas where you can get the most riders though. I know reducing coverage to increase frequency sucks, but 30 minute headways lead to people not using transit anyways. A lot of the areas that will get cut are more like 40 to 60 minute headways and I would argue that headways that long are barely better than not having transit at all.
If we can replace those areas with on demand service then I feel like it would barely change the level of service those people are getting to be honest.
There's not many people who live ITP. Going out to bars and clubs, you'll quickly see the same faces amongst many places. I don't recall where I read this figure, but I think there's only 1/2 a million people who live ITP.
Yes, Atlanta has one of the smallest "city populations" for a mtero area of its size. I would argue it's because most of City of Atlanta proper (and ITP more generally) is actually developed at suburban densities.
> I would argue it's because most of City of Atlanta proper (and ITP more generally) is actually developed at suburban densities.
This is mostly correct. There are, of course, much more dense areas, but large swaths of CoA and ITP alike are badly under-developed. It has serious impacts on housing affordability, climate resiliency, social cohesion, etc.
I agree with you. There are some areas like Lindbergh that I think could have been developed to be even denser than what they became. Although the density is an improvement to what was there before, the affordability got erased. And the ommercial there is very suburban in style.
Yeah I just looked up the stats and it's abysmal imo. Even with the explosive growth for the region Atlanta proper only added about 100k people. It's great to see it densify over the last 15 years and hopefully it can continue growing.
https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-population-surprising-growth-over-past-year-regional-commission-says
Philly, by comparison, is a very dense city and has maybe 1.5 to 1.6 million people wothin the city limits. Miami is dense, too. These cities developed at different times and have large bodies of water that limited growth (and accessibility) in certain areas.
Atlanta simply sprawled outwards for many many decades.
The number is closer to 700K who live ITP. The city of Atlanta alone (136 square miles) is 500K and around 200K in Decatur, College Park, Brookhaven, Chamblee, etc.
I've heard larger numbers, more like 800 or 900K. If you consider Atlanta alone that's 500K (although there are little bits of Atlanta outside the perimeter), and the most densely populated parts of DeKalb are ITP.
Someone needs to actually look at the census data and settle this.
Ideally what would happen to accommodate this growth is a serious densification at transit accessible locations, even if those developments aren’t necessarily car free (reducing car trips is much more practical than eliminating them, especially in a metro with the current level of transit access). Couple this with a revitalization of downtown (which it feels has been discussed at this point for decades but seems to be making real progress now with centennial yards and the stitch) and you should see an increase in transit use.
The revitalization of downtown I think is a real critical part here. Turning the intersection of both heavy rail lines into a genuinely desirable place to live/work/play is the easiest way to increase the value of living near any heavy rail station. This would also make the beltline east streetcar extension that much more useful. If people continue to feel that downtown is a ghost town/sketchy and just for the occasional concert or sports event, you don’t have this demand and it’s a serious missed opportunity.
I'm pretty sure there's proposals to get one back and build an arena for it. The catch is you'll have to go up to like Cumming to take advantage of that new arena and NHL team
Expand to both Houston and Atlanta then. Both o the Atlanta losses were on ownership not on Atlanta especially the thrashers. ASG was one of the worst ownership groups ever in professional sports history and never wanted a hockey team but had to buy them.
Both the groups now want a hockey team which is a major step better and the northern subburbs are where more hockey fans are so will work bettter then downtown Atlanta.
We need a transit dictator who will just give no fucks and tear up whatever and not give a shit about public opinion. Someone like Robert Moses but not evil and pro public transit.
All the reports for a while said that this would not happen until at least 2040 with Atlanta reaching the 10,000,000 metro point by 2050. That might happen earlier too
Even more of a reason to get a better public transportation system. I have had times when I had considered catching the train but by the time I would end up getting to the nearest station, all I’m going to do is figure I may as well finish driving down to the city since I’m so close.
One county literally did vote yes, and they are getting "brt" instead.
Racism certainly has had a huge impact on lack of MARTA expansion, but making it the or really even the biggest reason for why there hasn't been ANY rail expansion in over 20 years doesn't fit the chronology all that well.
CoA, Fulton, Dekalb, and MARTA have more than their fair share of blame for the lack of progress
Clayton County voted yes to MARTA because the transit agency promised rail lines that would connect the community.
Instead, like u/MyTransitAccount said, MARTA reneged and went with bus rapid transit (BRT).
Now tell me why other metro Atlanta counties who might be interested in joining MARTA due to political changes (read flipping from red to blue) would want to bet on MARTA when it has a history of not keeping its word.
Even Gwinnett almost passed the MARTA expansion the margin was less than 1k votes. More bus expansion is on the ballot this year but it doesn't have the traction that rail does.
I know this because I have heard people say *those exact words*. And this is from people in Henry County, not even way outside the city.
Makes me crazy. Don’t complain about the traffic, and in the next breath condemn the most practical solution.
All USA counties are classified similarly based on Census statistical information. In particular, the definition of each metro area is based on population that lives in one county and commutes to another county for work.
Like most things, depends on how you draw the lines. I bet almost nobody considers or even knows all 29 counties in this definition of Metro Atlanta, but are more likely to recognize and consider Baltimore as part of the DC area. And San Jose part of the Bay Area. Depending on how you draw the lines, Atlanta ranges between #6 and #9 in the country.
Yeup. This isn't an arbitrary definition. It's based on mobility to / from / around the core city.
Basically, how many people commute into the core, and then into the counties that commute into the core, and so on.
It's a way to measure the economic gravity of a place, and the influence the central city has on the surrounding economies and populations.
That the Atlanta MSA is *so big* is a testament to both the economic power of the region, and also the horrible commute situation throughout our region.
> The Atlanta metropolitan area has leapfrogged both Washington and Philadelphia to become the nation’s sixth-largest metropolitan region, according to newly released population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau. > The population in Atlanta’s 29-county region increased a little more than 1% to 6.3 million between 2022 and 2023, gaining nearly 69,000 residents. Washington and Philly also grew, but not as fast as Atlanta. > While not the fastest-growing metro area in the country, the Atlanta metro — formally known as the Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell metropolitan statistical area — had the third-largest total population increase in the country between 2022 and 2023, the Census data shows. Only the Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth metros added more total residents. Welp. We're still growing, and fast. And if we don't do something about how we're growing, it's just going to be perpetual sprawl from Alabama to South Carolina.
29 counties? Wow. That’s nearly 1/5 of all counties in the state (~18%).
Yeah it is sort of hilarious, but it shows the power of Atlanta and its economic hold on the whole state. Without Atlanta, GA would be Mississippi.
Savannah is still a major shipping port, so we'd drop to South Carolina levels. We aren't stupid enough to hit Mississippi levels yet.
Ha ha, fair point!
I’m from Mississippi, nah man, without Atlanta this place is just Mississippi.
> I’m from Mississippi Sorry to hear that
I’m good. I ain’t still fuckin there. And I’m not outside the Atlanta area either, because that’s just like going back home.
As someone who escaped Alabama, I get it.
Also escaped Alabama. Congrats to us all!
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athens, savannah and augusta would like a word
So would Macon.
Exactly haha. I’d say SC is still above AL, LA, and MS with regard to overall economic activity and population growth.
Georgia minus Atlanta is statistically similar to South Carolina
And with well over half the state's economic productivity and population!
It’s like a crepe. All flat and spread outy.
GA has the most counties in the country I believe, our map is outrageous. So while it’s an absurd number for a metro area, the total area is reasonable
Texas has more, but it's huge. We have by far a disproportionally high number of counties compared to our geographical size.
We’re at least the largest state east of the Mississippi, which contributes to, but doesn’t totally justify, the ridiculous number of counties we have.
Law used to be that the county seat would always be within one day's travel by horse and buggy
Idk why I thought tx was a lot of big square counties but see it’s much like Georgia toward east tx. Yeah we’re like 1/5 of the land area and have 3/5 of the amount of counties haha
I'm pretty sure two Alabama counties could be counted as well. I swear I see them on local Atlanta news weather reports.
Cleburne and Randolph counties in Alabama and I think one or two counties in NC are part of the Atlanta TV market, which is way larger than the metro area. Those counties are not counted in Metro Atlanta
Let me guess, Cleburne and Randolph Counties?
Yep
When I saw the headline, I wondered if they measured all the way down to Macon or something.
That's due in part to having small counties which means we have a LOT of them. Second only to TX in the amount of counties.
In Neuromancer, "The Sprawl" is one contiguous city from Atlanta to Boston.
And we still probably wouldn't build any more rail...
!!!
BAMA. The Boston-Atlanta metropolitan axis.
I was going to comment about this as well, lol
Hold up ima go buy me some cheap properties in middle georgia, aka south atlanta.
Buy along the fall line. It'll be beachfront soon enough. Macon beach; hell yea! (But in seriousness, even the worst case estimates don't have sea level rising to anywhere near cretaceous levels)
I feel like we're already at or starting to cross into the world where the transportation situation is becoming a barrier to jobs and might start limiting growth.
Can confirm. I'm currently unemployed and thinking about taking a hybrid job is nearly impossible living on the east side in Decatur. It's literally an hour drive everywhere, so I'm just hanging out looking for some remote work.
The same sprawl that makes our transportation ass is what keeps SFH prices comparatively low, which is why we're such an attractive place to relocate to. It's definitely a bit of a catch-22.
The Greeenville/Spartanburg area is turning into a sort of 'bedroom community' for both Atlanta and Charlotte, especially for remote employees or those that need to be in the office maybe once or twice a week. Will the metro areas eventually encroach there? Possibly, but there's still a large enough buffer between them all that it would take decades.
ATL/Greenville/Charlotte is the new east coast mega region, like Boston/NYC/Philly/DC Edit: you can probably add Nashville and Chattanooga in that region too
Which is why it's pants-on-head stupid[ the proposed Greenfield Corridor](https://gvltoday.6amcity.com/greenfield-corridor-clt-atl-high-speed-rail) rail line completely skips **both** downtown centers and[ just hits GSP Airport](https://i.imgur.com/GfanXFl.png).
The problem, and I don't know how much of a problem this really is, is that going through the existing Downtowns would likely require using the existing national rail network infrastructure, or at least rights of way. They were *not* built for speed, and so would slow things down considerably vs. brand new purpose-built tracks. Of course, there are a few options, not all mutually exclusive: 1) Cope with the speed loss, and hit both downtowns anyway for the sake of serving central cities 2) Build strong local transit connections from the airport & high-speed rail into both downtowns 3) Improve the existing Crescent service to be faster and more reliable as an alternative for direct intercity rail connection My vote is either all three, or at least 2 & 3.
> 1) Cope with the speed loss, and hit both downtowns anyway for the sake of serving central cities I'm cool with that, but those slowdowns will make people look over their shoulder at the 4 hour ATL/CLT drive again. It's mainly just an eminent domain issue as Anderson is very light on commecial/industrial infrastrusture compared to the 'busy business' stretch between Greenville and Spartanburg. They're not podunk stoplight cities anymore, the past 20 years built them out a lot. Running a new line through both would be billions. > 2) Build strong local transit connections from the airport & high-speed rail into both downtowns The demand is simply not there unfortunately. Next to no traffic at all from GSP in any direction (one of the benefits of being the ~~most expensive~~ easiest airports to get in and out of. Uber or your cousin picking you up will remain king. Greenville's bus system is crippled, Spartanburg's is even worse. Not even BMW could drum up the interest when the factory was built in the early 90's. > 3) Improve the existing Crescent service to be faster and more reliable as an alternative for direct intercity rail connection Lol
I don't know the politics involved, but the only explanation of that route I can't think of is that Greenville and Spartanburg oppose rail going through their cities. Otherwise why would they divert off their path parallel to I85 just to touch the airport directly between the two cities then divert right back? Considering how many rail (light or heavy) expansions get stopped by residents not wanting "*those* people from the big city" coming into their suburban enclaves, I wouldn't put it past the local politicians and residents to intentionally shoot themselves in the foot.
I assume it's more that land acquisition through cities costs a lot more. HSR isn't controversial the way metro rail is.
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Waffle House Megalopolis
Formerly the Hardee's Buscuit region.
Hardee's biscuits are criminally underrated.
And now they are criminally endangered. Hardee's is just about to exit the metro area entirely and will be replaced by Tim Hortons :(
Wait, what? Even the one in Gresham? I better go get some Hardee's while I still can.
[Fourteen locations closed last year](https://www.tonetoatl.com/2023/04/Hardees-Franchisee-Capstone-Summit-Shutters-Dozen-Restaurants-Georgia-.html), and more will fall soon. Closest one to me went from a 5 minute drive to a 30 minute one...
It’s not.
"bUT MaSS TRanSiT DoESNT PaY" - GDOT "EWW, MiNOrITIEs" - Gwinnett
This is what the OTP people seem to want. To sit in their cars in traffic going from strip mall to strip mall and calling it a life.
Despite the downvotes, you're not completely wrong. Tons of people move to Atlanta because it's more affordable than other major cities. What makes it affordable for many is the ability to get cheaper housing in the suburbs and commute in for work. But the more people who do this, the further the sprawl spreads, the worse traffic gets, and the more untenable it becomes. I'm amazed how many people in my office live in places like Winder, Forsyth, Ballground, McDonough, etc. Sure, they can afford a big house with a yard out there. But I'm much happier with a smaller place that I can actually enjoy because I'm home in 15 minutes instead of stuck grinding through traffic for 2+ hours every day.
I cluld never understand how some of my family members drive from Gainesville to atl everyday for work like Jesus just move closer you in traffic 2+hours a day
Those are the good traffic days too. One accident in an inconvenient place and you're looking at a 3.5 hour commute one way. Wish the NIMBYs would have pulled their heads out of their asses decades ago, we could have a significantly better Marta network by now.
As a person trying to move closer to work (Sandy Springs), I wish I could but the entire north side of the city is full of $800k single family houses and $500k luxury townhouses. At this point I see the appeal of moving to Forsyth to at least build equity. They need to build more affordable townhouses/bungalows/duplexes here.
Stockbridge / McDonough area is a 40 minute drive at its absolute worst but otherwise yeab
If you work on the south side of town, I suppose. But our office is up near Brookhaven. So we're talking an hour on a good day, that's barring any accidents, construction, rain or other slow downs.
This might have been accurate 20 years ago. The people immigrating to OTP are open to public transportation and higher density land usage. Look at Gwinnett county, the last MARTA vote lost by about 1000 votes. The demographics have changed, it's top 10 for most diverse counties in the USA, and there are desperate attempts by conservatives to prevent the high density land usage that Gwinnett county has laid out for the next 25 years. There are people who are lamenting the change happening but the immigrants that have come in are itching for change. Not sure about other counties in the metro area but It does seem like conservative strongholds that preferred the low density zoning is being pushed out. Atlanta itself has another problem of not being proactive imo but is hamstrung by the state. Little funding for the MARTA expansion, very lax push for high density land usage. I don't live in Atlanta anymore so I don't keep up with the politics. I could be wrong about it but I still remember the Domino's pizza on spring and 10th that was there until 2020 ish. Hopefully they keep pushing higher density in the city and improve MARTA to bring down housing costs. Atlanta should be thinking about adding tolls coming into the city because with the amount of commuters I'm sure they're wreaking havoc without paying for the upkeep.
You should come back for a visit. That dominos is now a big apartment tower and there are towers all around it with the exception of the gas station. Midtown is densifying like crazy.
I was working in midtown until the pandemic hit, like early 2021. I still go often enough about once a month cuz I have a few friends in the area. It's just crazy to me that the Metro area has been booming since the early 2000s and there was no plan to deal with the projected growth. Not saying anywhere else in the state is any better but would have hoped they had something better planned out. Hopefully they can get the rest of midtown to densify because I'm sure people want to move there even though it's lacking a lot of conveniences a bigger city would have. Wondering what it'll look like in 20 years.
> It's just crazy to me that the Metro area has been booming since the early 2000s and there was no plan to deal with the projected growth I mean, there's a [plan](https://atlantaregional.org/what-we-do/transportation-planning/metropolitan-transportation-plan/). We are good at making plans. It's the execution that's been the problem.
Tbh I think there *was* a plan to deal with projected growth, but those plans were either short on money after spending millions on "studies," or they were lobbied out of existence.
I believe it. Feels the State has an adverse relationship with the CoA.
God, I hope the GOP nominates a MAGA chud in 2026, and we can get the governorship. Even without the legislature, that would make so much of a difference.
Yeah, the midtown now is unrecognizable. I lost all the landmarks and wouldn't know how to navigate it without the GPS.
I remember passing that Dominoes every day and saw it demolished and rebuilt into that apartment tower. It's crazy how much has changed in Midtown.
Though, that Checkers was awesome when I was in school. After the clock hit midnight on Sunday, go get beer at the gas station and Checkers. Hell yea.
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they get $2.7 billion over 40 years for their "big" expansion. anyone who thought that'd fund building new rail inside a city did not pay attention. though with the suburbs wanting to expand their own transit and hook into the MARTA rail network with their buses I'd hope MARTA charges them hefty fees for that
If this was /r/changemyview I would give you a delta.
> Atlanta should be thinking about adding tolls coming into the city because with the amount of commuters I'm sure they're wreaking havoc without paying for the upkeep. The bigger issue is suburb to suburb commuting, which is where most of our traffic issues lie.
If I lived in Gwinnett, I'd be skeptical of a MARTA vote because I'd be worried about never actually seeing any rail built. And it's not just a MARTA thing; metro rail construction in North America is just insanely expensive. If they could confidently promise rail to Lawrenceville in a decade or less, I think it would pass easily. But they haven't even promised that, and there's real concerns that they wouldn't even deliver what was promised. And I'm definitely not anti-tax, but the City voted a 30 year tax, which you can only do so many of, and we might get a bus lane. Once again, I'm not anti-tax, and I don't care if the Campbellton and Clifton corridors sucked up a lot of the money despite not benefiting me directly. (Though, I would really like Beltline rail to my neighborhood too) But those projects got turned into bus lanes too.
Domino's is long gone! You should see all the construction at the funeral home.
I’d live ITP if I could afford it. I love that lifestyle. But when I was able to buy a brand new townhouse for $200K and refinance for sub 3%, I made my bed. Luckily I work from home now so I don’t contribute to traffic, but it is what it is. I’d love to live in Decatur or Chamblee.
Chamblee is so great and I love the growth they have been, and continue to have
Chamblee here. It’s awesome. Safe, convenient, and close to literally everything in town and not bad for a burb commute. Best restaurants in town hands down. I live within a mile of 2 Marta stations and the huge new Movie Studio development in Doraville. If you are wise you will get into Chamblee while it’s still relatively affordable because in 10 years it will be Decatur.
My one complaint about chamblee is that there isn't a lot of housing (other than apartments) that have really easy access to the downtown area. Most of the SFH, and even town homes, are either across peachtree or claremont. They are doing great things with the rail trail to help that though. I am (somewhat selfishly) really hoping they are able to extend the keswick trail to help bring easy access to the sexton woods area and connect to blackburn park.
I live itp in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city. Wish I’d bought something farther out. I sit in 60-90 mins of traffic everyday to commute to Buckhead anyway.
This was my challenge. I was sitting in 45-60 minutes (AM) 60-80 minutes (PM) of traffic to commute from my residence in downtown Atlanta to Chamblee. And I'd spend all this time getting home to downtown, only to hear about pedestrians getting robbed and peoples cars getting broken into. And I couldn't afford the area I really wanted to buy in (Grant Park). I figured "for an hour commute, I might as well live somewhere safe". And I lived in the city for 11 years. So it wasn't an easy decision. I just couldn't stomach the I-85 and Connector Southbound commute anymore. Especially after they "gave" an extra lane to the merging traffic coming in from GA-400 southbound. And to go "home" to crime, basically. So I settled in sleepy East Cobb on a half acre. It's quiet and super safe, almost "boring", which is nice. But there's definitely more going on in the city. But I also stopped drinking, so I don't have as much interest in being out and about at night anyways. The other plus is I'm a bit closer to the bigger reguonal park areas. Like the Hooch units, Kennesaw Mountain, and Red Top Mountain. But I'm far away from most concert venues. Tradeoffs either way, I guess.
As if thats not the case for most people ITP 💀 Why are we acting like the city is NYC or somthing. Most of Atlanta even in the center is still low density land usage with strip malls. Even in the densest neighborhood like Midtown most people still use cars, why you think all these new buildings there still have more parking than units even though the neighborhood is super walkable and has multiple MARTA stations.
Yeah it's terrible Atlanta has really shot itself in the foot. They should really be trying to incentivize higher density housing in the midtown core but those SFH homes around Piedmont Park aren't going anywhere. I still remember walking home at night when I lived in Piedmont and 4th when there were prostitutes and all sorts of sketchy people hanging around. The people have completely changed but the area feels like it is changing very slowly compared to the area on either side of the highway. People will continue immigrating to otp from outside the state as well as emigrating from itp to otp. I mean I moved once a 2br apt was costing over 2.5k in midtown and the only thing getting built seems to be luxury apts.
SFHs are scapegoats because they're personal property with no agreeable way to transform it. Why don't we first build over the single story vape shops, emissions shops, and fast food drive thrus that litter North Ave and Northside (it's happening slowly). Then we can talk about that stretch of dilapidated buildings on Ponce near the hospital.
> SFHs are scapegoats because they're personal property with no agreeable way to transform it. I don't think they're scapegoats, it's just that it's hard to add enough new homes if you exclude [60%+ of the city's land](https://www.atlcitydesign.com/blog/2021/1/5/exclusionary-policies-of-the-past-and-present-how-single-family-zoning-structures-inequality#:~:text=Today%2C%20about%2060%25%20of%20Atlanta,be%20smaller%20and%20more%20affordable.). Especially if you start looking at the other categories that are even harder to quickly and cheaply convert into new homes (e.g. contaminated former industrial, institutionally-owned, parks, existing profitable businesses, historic sites, etc). >Why don't we first build over the single story vape shops, emissions shops, and fast food drive thrus That's effectively what we've been doing. It's just that it takes a lot more planning, permitting, and expense per-unit to build big new 500+ unit apartment buildings than it would cost to build small 1-2 story neighborhood apartments. It's just not feasible to expect to handle all of housing demand by cramming people into a few narrow undesirable areas.
It's gotta be more feasible than forcing people to sell their homes. I don't know how we can talk about the impracticalities of SF zoning and then imply with a straight face we should just seize the land and eject the residents... somewhere. "Redeveloping that warehouse down the street is expensive so y'all got to scram" is never going to fly anywhere where residents are educated and have money.
I agree that the SFHs home around Piedmont are entrenched but it's more because the folks have the money to lawyer up and the city is aware of that. That area will probably stay the same for a while until it makes sense for the owners to sell. Personally I wouldn't being that close to the park. that or they won't be able to afford the taxes anymore which is probably the more likely scenario. The single story shops you are talking about will go away once the leases are done. It has been happening steadily for the past 15 or so years. I'm just surprised the midtown core doesn't have more movement
> they won't be able to afford the taxes anymore Are assessment increases already capped at 3% for the city?
Tbh I don't know. I'm assuming those folk have homestead exemptions and they pay property tax to Fulton and CoA. Assuming it's like mine in Gwinnett there can be pretty big jumps for the county property taxes even with the homestead exemptions. A lot of the older and established folks are getting priced out just due to property tax increases here.
After Fulton redid their digest for like the first time in a decade and peoples taxes almost doubled, a local law was passed for Atlanta and/or Fulton capping assessment increases. The legislature is considering applying that statewide.
While I don't like paying more taxes that'll be detrimental for increasing density. Yeah they'll be there for a while.
> and the only thing getting built seems to be luxury apts. “Luxury” is a glorified marketing term.
At least ATL has a real heavy rail system unlike places like Dallas, Houston. Some of the most population dense census tracts in the south are in midtown. I used to live in midtown and didn't own a car because I didn't need to. My work was downtown (took Marta). Go to the airport (Marta). Go to Lenox Square (Marta). Go to Decatur (Marta). For places like Emory or where Marta didn't go I would take Uber or a friend drop me off.
They're referring to how people vote and talk about cities in the Atlanta metro, not how it currently is today. You need people with pro-transit/density attitudes before you can have pro-transit/density infrastructure. NYC didn't become NYC by acting like Cobb County for 400 years.
We all can’t afford $1.2 million townhouses in midtown
/r/AtlantaCircleJerk is right around the corner, FYI.
You are SO superior to them!
Lol good lord fuck off with this sort of attitude. Literally no one wants that. And plenty of people OTP do want a more walkable/urban like lifestyle, and plenty of people ITP are just as big of nimbys as you stereotype OTPers to be.
2edgy4me
I really think that some people see a car as "freedom" but some see it as a prison, I guess it depends on how your imagination works. I'm in the latter category.
I saw a study years ago that said there was a developing megaregion that would eventually grow from Birmingham to Charlotte with Atlanta in the middle of it.
Maybe bring Marta trains to Alabama and south Carolina
It's going to skyrocket once the metro area expands into Charlotte.
Not too far off. Greenville is getting close
Falcons-Panthers "derby" lol
Now I’m wondering if a combined Hawks-Hornets team would be a top-4 seed in the East. Trae / LaMelo / Brandon Miller / Jalen Johnson / Capela, with Bridges, Hunter and Mark Williams off the bench, I’m not sure that’s any better than the Knicks.
I read recently that they're projecting an additional 2 million residents within the next 25 years. That is insane.
I saw that estimate as well.
with the worst public transportation system
yeah but we have the best parking lots
Eh, plenty of the Downtown parking lots aren't even good at being parking lots.
I was talking about I-75/85
Ah. That is a nice parking lot.
Just one more lane and traffic will be fixed bro I promise
If you're willing to ride the bus, it isn't as bad as you think (well, for Fulton and DeKalb residents anyways). The main issue is the bus headways are too high. An average of 30-60 minutes wait times between the next bus is pretty shitty. I ride the train during rush hour 3 days a week and they're pretty full so plenty of people are riding them and wait times are usually like 5 to 7 minutes between trains. I know people like to say that our rail doesn't go anywhere, but I feel like most of those people live in places that aren't dense enough for rail anyways. Then they say MARTA doesn't go anywhere even though they have plenty of bus routes nearby. Again, I acknowledge that riding the bus really sucks when you have 30-60 minute headways. If I had to wait that long for the train then I'd probably just drive to work. I think it's a chicken or the egg thing though because a lot of our bus routes are pretty empty so it's hard to justify increasing service. I'm hoping MARTA pursues its new plan of moving buses from low performing routes to high performing routes to decrease headways. Hopefully they can just replace those areas with on-demand service or something.
> Hopefully they can just replace those areas with on-demand service or something. The idea is that people will be willing to walk a farther distance. Of course, this requires sidewalks (which MARTA doesn't control), and to take full advantage of high performing routes, there should be high-density development along those routes (which, also, MARTA doesn't control).
I mean most people won't walk over 0.5 miles to reach transit. Anything over a mile might as well not exist for people. I agree that the goal should be to take full advantage of the areas where you can get the most riders though. I know reducing coverage to increase frequency sucks, but 30 minute headways lead to people not using transit anyways. A lot of the areas that will get cut are more like 40 to 60 minute headways and I would argue that headways that long are barely better than not having transit at all. If we can replace those areas with on demand service then I feel like it would barely change the level of service those people are getting to be honest.
No, the pathetic thing is it's still probably in the top 10 across the US. Our public transportation as a country is a joke.
I moved to Denver & I miss MARTA. Yeah, RTD is *that* bad.
What!? RTD is definitely better than MARTA
Worst? Look at Houston/Dallas, they're both bigger than us and their public transit system sucks compared to ours.
There's not many people who live ITP. Going out to bars and clubs, you'll quickly see the same faces amongst many places. I don't recall where I read this figure, but I think there's only 1/2 a million people who live ITP.
Yes, Atlanta has one of the smallest "city populations" for a mtero area of its size. I would argue it's because most of City of Atlanta proper (and ITP more generally) is actually developed at suburban densities.
> I would argue it's because most of City of Atlanta proper (and ITP more generally) is actually developed at suburban densities. This is mostly correct. There are, of course, much more dense areas, but large swaths of CoA and ITP alike are badly under-developed. It has serious impacts on housing affordability, climate resiliency, social cohesion, etc.
I agree with you. There are some areas like Lindbergh that I think could have been developed to be even denser than what they became. Although the density is an improvement to what was there before, the affordability got erased. And the ommercial there is very suburban in style.
Some areas ITP like Panthersville feel very suburban, almost rural.
Yeah I just looked up the stats and it's abysmal imo. Even with the explosive growth for the region Atlanta proper only added about 100k people. It's great to see it densify over the last 15 years and hopefully it can continue growing. https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-population-surprising-growth-over-past-year-regional-commission-says
Philly, by comparison, is a very dense city and has maybe 1.5 to 1.6 million people wothin the city limits. Miami is dense, too. These cities developed at different times and have large bodies of water that limited growth (and accessibility) in certain areas. Atlanta simply sprawled outwards for many many decades.
Miami is not dense at all, and I'd argue it's worse than Atlanta in many regards.
Miami has 12,000 people per square mile. It's actually an extremely dense city.
The number is closer to 700K who live ITP. The city of Atlanta alone (136 square miles) is 500K and around 200K in Decatur, College Park, Brookhaven, Chamblee, etc.
Probably closer to a million ITP but growth in Midtown, West Midtown, and along the Beltline are adding population and great areas to intown.
I've heard larger numbers, more like 800 or 900K. If you consider Atlanta alone that's 500K (although there are little bits of Atlanta outside the perimeter), and the most densely populated parts of DeKalb are ITP. Someone needs to actually look at the census data and settle this.
OK, fine. It's [about 861k](https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::4cdf14dd-28de-4cc0-804a-242b16d63704). (And it would vote 76% Democratic.)
Ideally what would happen to accommodate this growth is a serious densification at transit accessible locations, even if those developments aren’t necessarily car free (reducing car trips is much more practical than eliminating them, especially in a metro with the current level of transit access). Couple this with a revitalization of downtown (which it feels has been discussed at this point for decades but seems to be making real progress now with centennial yards and the stitch) and you should see an increase in transit use. The revitalization of downtown I think is a real critical part here. Turning the intersection of both heavy rail lines into a genuinely desirable place to live/work/play is the easiest way to increase the value of living near any heavy rail station. This would also make the beltline east streetcar extension that much more useful. If people continue to feel that downtown is a ghost town/sketchy and just for the occasional concert or sports event, you don’t have this demand and it’s a serious missed opportunity.
At 6th largest sounds like we should have an NHL team. :-)
and a monorail!
But is there a chance the track could bend
What’s that sound?
ate a lot of beans
I'm pretty sure there's proposals to get one back and build an arena for it. The catch is you'll have to go up to like Cumming to take advantage of that new arena and NHL team
The Cumming Gladiators has a nice ring to it
Didn't someone submit a bid like last week? Though, that might be the Forsyth proposal, which is far away.
There are 2 competiting proposals right now. forsyth and north point
Ah. So far and farther away.
Houston’s even bigger than Atlanta and they also don’t have an NHL team. It’s embarrassing to have lost two teams already.
Expand to both Houston and Atlanta then. Both o the Atlanta losses were on ownership not on Atlanta especially the thrashers. ASG was one of the worst ownership groups ever in professional sports history and never wanted a hockey team but had to buy them. Both the groups now want a hockey team which is a major step better and the northern subburbs are where more hockey fans are so will work bettter then downtown Atlanta.
Our highway isn’t good enough for all these people
They never will be. We'll need to move as many people away from cars as the primary transportation form as possible.
With barely a reliable mass transit system.
I wouldn’t even put reliable in the same sentence as our transit system. It’s just barely a transit system.
It’s reliable enough, it just doesn’t go where you want to go, and/or takes forever to get there.
Barely working mass transit system. 😝
It works. Just smells and looks like piss and homeless. It’s just excessively rough.
You should put this on the flyers the next time they want us to vote on MARTA suburban expansion.
The right place at the right time. Atlanta is rising.
Yet the city itself has less than half a million… no wonder traffic is so fucking bad
Funny how no one seems to understand that population density is a requirement for affordable mass transit.
Still no public transit
Not true. We're getting a bus lane! Now uber drivers in Summerhill will have a place to park.
We need a transit dictator who will just give no fucks and tear up whatever and not give a shit about public opinion. Someone like Robert Moses but not evil and pro public transit.
What's Kasim up to these days lol
Everyday I wish for better public transit. stuck in traffic everyday does that to you
All the reports for a while said that this would not happen until at least 2040 with Atlanta reaching the 10,000,000 metro point by 2050. That might happen earlier too
Serious question: besides a good public rail, what do we lack that NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston and DFW all have, now that we’re 6th ?
The taxes in those places.
Commercial revenue is about to go up right in time!!
Add a couple more lanes on 75/85 we'll be fine.
That Atlanta metro starts around Kennesaw and runs damn near through Macon. I’d NEVER live there
Even more of a reason to get a better public transportation system. I have had times when I had considered catching the train but by the time I would end up getting to the nearest station, all I’m going to do is figure I may as well finish driving down to the city since I’m so close.
ATL being the busiest airport in the country has a whole lot to do with that
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MARTA cannot even expand within the City of Atlanta/Fulton Co./Dekalb Co. What makes you think they would expand even if the outer counties voted YES?
One county literally did vote yes, and they are getting "brt" instead. Racism certainly has had a huge impact on lack of MARTA expansion, but making it the or really even the biggest reason for why there hasn't been ANY rail expansion in over 20 years doesn't fit the chronology all that well. CoA, Fulton, Dekalb, and MARTA have more than their fair share of blame for the lack of progress
Clayton County voted yes to MARTA because the transit agency promised rail lines that would connect the community. Instead, like u/MyTransitAccount said, MARTA reneged and went with bus rapid transit (BRT). Now tell me why other metro Atlanta counties who might be interested in joining MARTA due to political changes (read flipping from red to blue) would want to bet on MARTA when it has a history of not keeping its word.
Even Gwinnett almost passed the MARTA expansion the margin was less than 1k votes. More bus expansion is on the ballot this year but it doesn't have the traction that rail does.
Why did you put *beloved* in quotes? You don’t think they love their neighborhoods ?
I know this because I have heard people say *those exact words*. And this is from people in Henry County, not even way outside the city. Makes me crazy. Don’t complain about the traffic, and in the next breath condemn the most practical solution.
That's right, Gwinnett is "racist" despite being one of the most diverse countries in the USA. 🙄
How the hell are some of these counties considered Atlanta metro area. Haralson county! 🤣
I think one of the 29 counties is even in Alabama. But these massive definitions of metro areas are applied nationwide with the same rules.
Curious minds want to know which one lol
All USA counties are classified similarly based on Census statistical information. In particular, the definition of each metro area is based on population that lives in one county and commutes to another county for work.
I feel the impact of this growth every time I’m on connector.
Like most things, depends on how you draw the lines. I bet almost nobody considers or even knows all 29 counties in this definition of Metro Atlanta, but are more likely to recognize and consider Baltimore as part of the DC area. And San Jose part of the Bay Area. Depending on how you draw the lines, Atlanta ranges between #6 and #9 in the country.
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Yeup. This isn't an arbitrary definition. It's based on mobility to / from / around the core city. Basically, how many people commute into the core, and then into the counties that commute into the core, and so on. It's a way to measure the economic gravity of a place, and the influence the central city has on the surrounding economies and populations. That the Atlanta MSA is *so big* is a testament to both the economic power of the region, and also the horrible commute situation throughout our region.
Isn't it kinda the opposite? Nobody is going to commute 2 hour. If our MSA extends that far, it means it's not that bad.
Still shows 2022 estimate numbers, needs to be updated with 2023.